Topic started by Kickboxer (@ 209.110.33.103) on Wed Mar 5 13:11:45 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I mean all religions, they prevent our progress as a society. Thoughout history people have been fighting because of their religions. If there are no religions in the world there won't be any wars or terrorism.

Give your comments!

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Fri Mar 14 00:27:33
  
  Kickboxer,
  
  You havent read my post in full it seems.See para 3.I have myself stated that i am not bothered about these theories and probings.
  
  If I allow Joe to abuse me like this, then everyone will fill my mail box with hate messages and it will lead to ugly fights .
  
  This is precisely why i refuse to be coerced by these morons!!!
  
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Fri Mar 14 00:33:42
  
  sorry for the double posts!!
  
  
• From: Joe (@ palo8.pacific.net.sg) on: Fri Mar 14 00:47:09
  
  MMC,
  It was you call me often in the yahoo messenger or leave some offline message..I never call you in yahoo messanger..That was the first and last time I gave you a offline message,just to inform I was too anoyed with your double standard in FH as well as personally to me.
  
  Even after you stated you don't want to talk to me hereinafter,you are continueing mentioning my name in posts..If you can stop that one..I have no problem in forgetting and ignoring you...afterall it is good for me to cut the contact with a person of your nature.I am very happy about that.
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Fri Mar 14 01:11:53
  
  Joe,
  
  Since this started in the forumhub and has to do with forumhub discussions, its only natural that i mention your name here.
  
  I have not used the messenger to send any abusive messages to you.Always they were out of friendship .
  
  If you were annoyed with my so called double standard, then there is a decent way of expressing that.
  
  had u done so, i wouldve even apologised to you , if you felt hurt by my support for karu.
  
  But you decided to act send hate messages and used filthy language.So much for the good christian in you!
  
  Anyhow, i am not interested in talking to you or explaining my views or stand to you as you have got converted yourself into a full blown mental retard.BYe!!
  
  
  
• From: Joe (@ palo8.pacific.net.sg) on: Fri Mar 14 01:21:50
  
  MMC,
  Hope that is your last message to me or mentioning my name.Good Bye..All the best.
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Fri Mar 14 01:43:12
  
  Joe,
  
  Bye! Wish you the same!!!
  
  
  
  
• From: Kickboxer (@ 1cust132.tnt32.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Fri Mar 14 10:59:02
  
  Hey Guys, Read Gandhi's views on Religion, Most of us can agree with that
  http://www.gandhian.com/gandhigodandreligion.html
  
  and also read the entire story at
  http://www.gandhian.com/
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Fri Mar 14 12:39:49
  
  Why did Religion develop?
  
  http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_theory.htm
  
  
• From: Kickboxer (@ 1cust223.tnt31.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Tue Mar 18 15:29:35
  
  MMC,
  
  In general I agree with you, but you are still on the Right-wing extremist side. You are not listening to the views that the Muslims and Christians or other people have.
  Everyone has a right to practise their religion, that's why we call our nation a Secular state. If you think they are bigoted by saying that their religion is the only way to God, it is their belief, ignore them! But that does'nt give anybody the right to promote violence against them.
  As far as I have known Christians and Muslims are as partiotic as anyone else in India.(ofcourse there will be bigoted extremists everywhere, nobody can deny that). Don't tell me that every single Hindu is Very partiotic, that is not true either, I have known many Hindus in the US who abuse India every single day and vow never to return to the country, what do you call them??
  
  Whatever stupid religious ideas people have, as long as they are not Unpatriotic, or promote violence, they are good citizens!
  
  
• From: Nisala (@ ac8d0d26.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue Mar 18 22:35:34
  
  Kickboxer,
  
  "If you think they are bigoted by saying that their religion is the only way to God, it is their belief, ignore them! But that does'nt give anybody the right to promote violence against them."
  
  
  I wish things could be as simple as that.
  
  Yes, one should ignore bigoted people. But what happens when the bigoted people start making demands? For example, that their bigoted beliefs be acknowledged as 'legitimate?' Or, that their 'saints' or 'heroes' who have caused great harm to those of other beliefs be likewise treated as national heroes?
  
  I too am a supporter of secularism. I have heard that the big mistake made with secularism in India was that nobody bothered to ask the Muslims their opinion of secularism- everyone just assumed that Muslims would support it. If majority of Indian Muslims support secularism, then that is good since they are a minority and thus they have nothing to gain by religious involvement in government.
  
  Do you have similar views of racial or ethnic bigotry as you do of religious bigotry? That racism should be just as tolerable as long as the racist is a 'good citizen?'
  
  I am not afraid to call a spade a spade. If any religion calls for bigotry against any group of people in its doctrine, then I do not hesitate to call that belief an inferior or primitive belief.
  
  You may believe that all religions are viruses. I believe that religions were invented by man as a psuedo-philosophy, that is, philosophy before man had a concept of philosophy. Before man had a concept of science or learning, he needed religion to help explain the universe. I think that inventing religion was very important, and constituted a significant part in man's evolution. I believe that a religion's worth can be tested by how useful it is. A religion which helps motivate people to be better is superior to a religion which encourages people to revert to baser instincts.
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Wed Mar 19 05:24:24
  
  Kickboxer,
  
  Your post has many assumptions on me, without knowing them fully.
  
  Well....properly answering your post requires a lengthy explanations.May be somtime later, i will make a lengthy post on this....
  
  zee u later brother...
  
  
• From: Kickboxer (@ 1cust87.tnt41.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Wed Mar 19 10:41:57
  
  Nisala,
  
  I wish things could be as simple as that.
  
  Yes, one should ignore bigoted people. But what happens when the bigoted people start making demands? For example, that their bigoted beliefs be acknowledged as 'legitimate?' Or, that their 'saints' or 'heroes' who have caused great harm to those of other beliefs be likewise treated as national heroes?
  Who asked you to accept their views as legitimate? you have the right to say what you believe without hurting others!, I understand that sometimes Hindu-Muslim relations get out control and things happen, but we have to live like a civilized society and solve our problems using the LAW and not like Nazi Germany.
  
  Do you have similar views of racial or ethnic bigotry as you do of religious bigotry?
  
  Do you know how the modern law works?
  "Even if the guy next to you is a potential murderer, you cannot arrest him unless he commits a murder or attempts to commit a murder" that's how all the civilized nations work. If they din't work that way, the law could be used against innocent people by corrupt people.
  
  There is not a lot we can do, if people change their views and are ready to accept a common moral code, that's great, but that will never happen. The best we can get is that we can ask people to keep their views to themselves and not hurt others. Ofcourse the same thing applies to racism, how do you know what the other person thinks?? unless he acts, the LAW cannot punish anybody for their beliefs, it can only punish someone based on their actions. What else would you suggest??
  
  I believe that religions were invented by man as a psuedo-philosophy, that is, philosophy before man had a concept of philosophy
  
  When we found out the atom was not the smallest particle what did we do?? we discarded that theory! Why don't we do the same thing to religions? Yes it was used to explain everything before science developed, but now we can use science to explain the things we understand and remove the parts from religions that don't make sense. Even Explosives were developed with good intentions but once we knew they could be used to hurt people, we had to make laws to limit their usage and availability, we have do something similar to religions too!
  
  People all over the world have problems with religious fundamentalism, be it Islamic, Christian, Hindu or Sikh. When people become extremists there is always bad news. As Human beings we have LIMITED Life span, LIMITED physical strength, but we have UNLIMITED and UNRESTRICTED THINKING ability and FREE WILL, that's what differentiates us from the animals. If we BLINDLY follow the ideas of a Christian priest, a Mulla, a Hindutva guy or any extremist, it means we are not using our thinking ability and free will, then in that case we become worse than animals.
  
  
  
• From: Nisala (@ ac83cdea.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Mar 19 19:46:08
  
  Kickboxer,
  
  "Who asked you to accept their views as legitimate?"
  
  
  Everyone I disagree with insists on that.
  
  
  "you have the right to say what you believe without hurting others!"
  
  
  I live in the USA, a country which in theory up-holds freedom of speech but not in reality.
  
  
  "but we have to live like a civilized society and solve our problems using the LAW and not like Nazi Germany."
  
  
  Yes I would agree with that. Rule of law is really the only way in which a society can sustain itself in the long-run. However, you must realize that the Nazis in our community are opposed to the idea of rule of law, and they will do anything in their power to overthrow rule of law and replace it with Naziism.
  
  
  "The best we can get is that we can ask people to keep their views to themselves and not hurt others."
  
  
  You sound very much like me 1.5 years ago, when I first came to FH. Back then, people were talking about 9-11 and that the solution is to kill all the Muslims. I was one of the Hubbers who was arguing against such talk. But then most of the Muslims made things very easy for the anti-Muslims by preaching that all non-Muslims will go to hell.
  
  Let us be honest. Let us say that in your community, there is a person whom everyone knows is a scumbag. He has probably been involved in many dirty things, but nobody can ever prove it. Let us then say that one day, he is found dead. Do you think the community at large will mourn his death? Do you think anyone will really care if the murderer is never found (as long as no further murders take place)?
  
  "What else would you suggest??"
  
  
  I think Karuvayan is the only one here who is preaching violence against non-Hindus. However, I seriously doubt that he has ever been involved in violence. Same goes for MMC. So, since they are non-violent people, going by your reasoning they should merely be left alone right?
  
  
  "we discarded that theory! Why don't we do the same thing to religions?"
  
  
  I can give you 2 good reasons. One is that most people in the world still believe that religion is superior to science. I would wager that this is the truth even in USA.
  
  Second reason is that science alone does not provide one with an ethical or moral code. For many people, they need a fear of a God to keep them from doing evil. My bus driver told me that he used to be a drug addict and a woman-beater, but then he 'found God' and then he cleaned up his act.
  
  So you see my dear friend, belief and fear of God is God's gift to the stupid people. That is proof of His kindness and generosity!
  
  
• From: Kickboxer (@ 1cust239.tnt41.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Wed Mar 19 21:39:20
  
  Nisala,
  
  there is a person whom everyone knows is a scumbag. ........
  
  If the right scumbag is killed, I would'nt worry, but that's not what happens usually. Most of the people killed in Gujarat violence were women and young children. Even pregnant women were not spared. What do you say about that??
  
  I think Karuvayan is the only one here who is preaching violence against non-Hindus
  
  You did'nt see me beating up Karuvayan, did you? a lot of people try to reason with him and the other people, sometimes it works and sometimes it does'nt, that's all we can do! If I see Karuvayan commiting a crime, that will be a different story!
  
  Nazis in our community are opposed to the idea of rule of law
  
  Every community has such people, we have to live with them and fight their ideas and go on with life. That's what every civilized society does.
  
  most people in the world still believe that religion is superior to science
  
  People can believe whatever they want, if their religion helps them, that's good. If it hurts them or others, then they have to change it or leave it.
  
  

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