Topic started by Thaali (@ 196.11.127.239) on Fri Jan 17 08:48:07 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Can anyone please tell me the origin and Significance of the Thaali?

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vanitha subramaniam (@ 203.106.1.93) on: Fri May 9 05:07:27 EDT 2003
  
  I would like to know what happens to the thalis of modern woman(of this era) when the husband passes away. In some remote areas in Malaysia, a lady goes through great misery in having her thali forcefully taken away, bangles breaking and even the flowers on her hair being pulled out rudely. Do we still need to go through all these where the lady is already in great pain losing her husband. I respect my thali but twice during giving birth to my children, I was forced to remove all jewelleries in the hospital. Comments appreciated from all
  
  
• From: R. Sri Hari (@ modem1.bayrac1.eureka.lk) on: Fri May 9 14:49:53 EDT 2003
  
  Dear Ms Vanitha Subramaniam,
  The answer to your question is partly answered in my "second response" in this same page re-what happens to the Thaali when the husband passes away.
  
  No one has "any right" - to take away the Thaali forcefully or peacefully "from any woman" who has lost her husband, or to pull out the flowers from her hair rudely or even nicely, or breaking away their bangles - at their own will.
  
  All these reflects the "primitive crude habits and uncivility" of the people concerned in doing so, whether they be the women or men, uneducated or highly educated, poor or rich, or of low or high social status.
  
  The desire for the removal of the Thaali, Flowers and Bangles, "can come from the woman herself" who has lost her husband, and that too should be done "only by herself" entirely at her own will at the time she wishes to so, "without anyone's force or order or nasty remark" - for her delay in doing so(but not breaking the Bangles).
  
  But as far as I know this forcefull operations are nowadays fast dying, and may be seen only in the remote areas in many countries where modern education and right and clear thinking have not penetrated, and where still the society holds that woman is second to man, and not as an equal.
  
  It is the Tamil Social Organisations in various parts of different countries where Tamils live in large number, can help to reform the thinking of our Tamil Society from these age old crude & rude practices and weed them off.
  
  Re-removing the (gold)Thaali (with gold Kodi) in the hospital, is the wish of the Women entering Hospital, but should not be forced as it is a sacrilege of what a women values.
  
  But she is always at a risk of loosing same in the event of a theft by some hospital employees or others unknown visitors to the hospital or by thiefs under threat of a knife etc when the patient is all alone, which normally any hospital will not take the responsibility.
  
  Hence it becomes sometimes inevitable to be with the Thaali in the hospital.
  
  As I mentioned earlier "Thaali" is only a "Symbol" of a marriage bond between a man and a women who have "mutually accepted each other whole heartedly", by way of an arranged marriage or a love marriage, and is given its religious significance and reference.
  
  Hence removal of the Thaali at hospitals or momentarily at the time of bath doesnot in any way loose it's significance and religious reference.
  
  
• From: vaidyanathan (@ 202.153.41.187) on: Sun May 11 07:44:08 EDT 2003
  
  Removing of thaali is a horror to a woman but it depends on the meaning the woman assosciates with the thaali.with the death of husband there is no more a sacred significance to thaali.so it does not matter at all if the woman removes the thaali or not.it is merely a symbol that marriage has taken place.a mere deecoration.so the woman should not be forced to remove it if she does not want to.in fact i would recomme3nd that she does not remove it in this day and age.as wicked men then would caste their eyes on a helpless widow.why she should proclaim that she is a widow and remove thaali unless she wants to remove,in case of remarriage she will anyway removeit at the time of remarriage.
  at the time of child birth,vanitha subramanian was made to remove thaali.NOW THE FACT IS THAT IF ANYBODY BELIEVES SERIOUSLY THAT THEY SHOULD NOT REMOVE THAALI THEY SHOULD NOT LISTEN TO WHAT OTHERS SAY.AS IT IS SINCE IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED IN THE CASE OF THIS LADY SHE CAN JUST FAST FOR A DAY PRAYING TO AMBAL.THAT SUFFICES.
  
  
• From: chankar (@ 202.88.233.247) on: Sun May 11 12:27:57 EDT 2003
  
  The word thali originated from thala. It is the palmyra tree.When the custom of marriage started a necklace made out of talipatra/ leaves was used as a token of marriage. It was at the age when there were no metal ornaments.Metal replaced thali at a latter time.
  Just hundread years ago the thali was used in marriages of the nayar community in the kanyakumari district. The fake marriage was known as thalikettu or kettukalyanam. The marriage is between a number of very young females with older men.After the marriage these older men will leave away from that place. Perhaps when the girl comes to know about her age these men would have passed away. the real marriage will be held when the girl atains maturity in a very small gathering.
  Historians failed to analyse the real background for such a system, began to write abuse about the same.
  among nairs there is system called kanni worship. That means death of a female before attaining maturity is considered as a kanya. Till the girl reaches 18 years of age the family members remember the child in every posible way. such houses are treated as a house with a kanni. There is a seperate room called chityapura in such traditional houses. dress ornaments and food items are kept in that room occasionally as a token to remember the child. In case if it is not done the members of the house felt guilty conscious and at times they felt the wrath of the deceased child.
  In my opinion this system can be compared with the kumari puja still practiced in Nepal. These are the practices that connects the present generation with our ancestors who lived thousands of years ago.
  Now the kettu kalyanam is not practiced. But at the time when the female child attains 28 day of birth, an aranjan is tied along with a small arayal leaf made out of gold. This practice is avialble only among the traditional people.
  This shows how our ancestors considered females. When they died before marriage they considered it something unthinkable. So they hastened to marry a girl to a person who wont be in a position to consider her as a real wife during his life times.
  Thank you
  
  
• From: chankar (@ 202.88.233.247) on: Sun May 11 12:28:06 EDT 2003
  
  The word thali originated from thala. It is the palmyra tree.When the custom of marriage started a necklace made out of talipatra/ leaves was used as a token of marriage. It was at the age when there were no metal ornaments.Metal replaced thali at a latter time.
  Just hundread years ago the thali was used in marriages of the nayar community in the kanyakumari district. The fake marriage was known as thalikettu or kettukalyanam. The marriage is between a number of very young females with older men.After the marriage these older men will leave away from that place. Perhaps when the girl comes to know about her age these men would have passed away. the real marriage will be held when the girl atains maturity in a very small gathering.
  Historians failed to analyse the real background for such a system, began to write abuse about the same.
  among nairs there is system called kanni worship. That means death of a female before attaining maturity is considered as a kanya. Till the girl reaches 18 years of age the family members remember the child in every posible way. such houses are treated as a house with a kanni. There is a seperate room called chityapura in such traditional houses. dress ornaments and food items are kept in that room occasionally as a token to remember the child. In case if it is not done the members of the house felt guilty conscious and at times they felt the wrath of the deceased child.
  In my opinion this system can be compared with the kumari puja still practiced in Nepal. These are the practices that connects the present generation with our ancestors who lived thousands of years ago.
  Now the kettu kalyanam is not practiced. But at the time when the female child attains 28 day of birth, an aranjan is tied along with a small arayal leaf made out of gold. This practice is avialble only among the traditional people.
  This shows how our ancestors considered females. When they died before marriage they considered it something unthinkable. So they hastened to marry a girl to a person who wont be in a position to consider her as a real wife during his life times.
  Thank you
  
  
• From: Mavalangkilli (@ hse-mtl-ppp60673.qc.sympatico.ca) on: Sat May 31 14:25:28 EDT 2003
  
  
  Thali is not a Thamizh symbol of wedding from the time of our civilization changing the maalai was the traditional marriage way and you can do it religiously by reading a pathikam or something religious and changing the maalai thaali is not something Thamizh if you claim it as it i think u should claim things that belong to Thamizh than claiming that which doesn't. You would go against me i know because u can't belive that it's not true anyway it's just as beliving in horoscopes and btw i do believe in God if you think i don't but i don't believe in such thing which excist beyond stupidity because God is someone a energy beyond the reach of normal virtue. It's a passion inside of your self something to understand and reach through being a devotee not like Thaali and those 3 knots put on a lady for no reason but beyond the stupidity and all these traditions of letting a women go through all sort of pains after a husband die that's pathetic and pottu originally don't belong to Thamizhan expect the Santhanam. The Kungumam that womens wear came from Egyptian Tradition which can be listed as some sort of Thamizh Tradition but not really you can cause the connections between Egyptians and Thamizhans aren't explainable alot and anyway it's from the civilization that formed from ours perhaps and originally whatever it means doesn't apply to whatever you want it to mean in my prespective. There are also different meanings and the roots where Thaali came from but surely it is not a Thamizh culture and i don't go along with it. Vannakam
  
  
• From: R. Sri Hari (@ modem49.bayrac4.eureka.lk) on: Fri Feb 13 12:16:09
  
  Dear Readers,
  I am first making reference to all those of you living in Tamil Nadu and having the Tamil Language as your mother tongue - may be hailing from any of the communities (Castes) such as Chettiars, Vanniyars, Devars, Iyers, Iyengars, Vanikars, Vellalers, etc etc etc etc, and generally call yourselves as the Tamils of Tami Nadu(correct me if any of them are not Tamils)
  
  What is interesting to me is to know from them the "shape material and the usual weight of the Thaalis (give a very brief description) as made among each of the different Castes of Tamil Nadu.
  
  Please post your advices in this connection - in this Thread for the interest of everyone who wish to know of same.
  
  Readers are also invited to read through the "old responses" of this Thread to know more on this subject.
  
  
  

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