Topic started by Karthik (@ 61.1.205.137) on Mon May 19 20:55:27 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Who are these Vanniars?
1.Are they really warriors? and descendants of the ancient tamil kings like Cholas and Pallavas?
or 2.they are just yet another shudra community?
If 1 is correct why were they listed as a Denotified Tribe during the british rule.And why many of them
are still agricultural labourers till now.
Why are they not widely acknowledged as a warrior community like the thevars?
If 2. is correct, what about the meanings of their suranames which corresponds to the
military ranks and even some kingly titles of the ancient dynasities?
And some old tamil literatures regard them as the rulers?
If both 1&2 are correct, how can a ruling class become slaves in their own land?
Please clear my doubts.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: VIJAY (@ 203.199.224.88) on: Fri Jun 11 03:52:05 EDT 2004
  
  Pallar, Palli -Is there any similarity?
  
  
• From: hopper (@ 198.151.41.203) on: Tue Jun 15 02:05:07 EDT 2004
  
  Hello Arivhagan,
  your posting is superb.. It takes 100 more periyars to teach people like veera .. to start thinking rationally. Given the facts, veeras fail to analyse and come to conlusion.. just like
  maakals, they are shutting their eyes and ears and are shouting at their highest pitch without analysing the facts..
  There is lot more facts pointing to vanniars being the original Dravidian and our tamil culture is the highly developed form .
  
  
• From: veera vannier (@ 61.1.210.216) on: Tue Jun 15 11:44:11 EDT 2004
  
  hey buggies what do you thinkWht ever you can prove you can`t prove that you are the rightful sons of the soil.
  First start studying the fact and analyse the truth ,don`t misguide the people like what you are doing now.vanniers can never be a tamil only he can shout that way if ramadoss has his vvoice but the rest of tamils know thre truth that these frogs came hopping innto the tamil land for food ansd shelter
  
  
• From: nirosha (@ j57.stw21.jaring.my) on: Fri Jun 18 03:31:31 EDT 2004
  
  I have some pretty old history books which shows Tamil Land to be so much bigger than present day Tamil Nadu. I reckon only those of us who truly look up trans-migratory patterns of ancient India, are in a good position to explain about our early history.
  
  Getting emotionally worked up for petty reasons does not do justice to our history. We are ancient peoples and yes, we had been tribal right from our proto-dravidian days. Perhaps, those of you who study anthropology ought to put your two-sen's worth in this thread too.
  
  
• From: devendra chakravarthi (@ 203.199.224.182) on: Sat Jun 19 03:23:19 EDT 2004
  
  From: VIJAY (@ 203.199.224.88) on: Fri Jun 11 03:52:05 EDT 2004
  
  
  Pallar, Palli -Is there any similarity?
  
  
  
  From: DEV (@ 203.199.224.182) on: Sat Jun 19 03:16:44 EDT 2004
  
  
  ARUNTHIRAL VEERARKUM PERUNTHIRAL ULAVARKKUM VARUNTHAKAITHAKUM MALLAR YENRU PEYAR "--THIVAKARA NIGANDU.----------- "SERUMALAI VEERARUM THINNIYORUM MARUAD NILA MAKKALUM MALLAR YENBA"-- BINGALA NIGANDU .------------ PALLARS ARE THE REPRESENTATIVE OF MALLARS THE ANCIENT HEROIC TRIBES OF TAMILNADU-----Dr.G.OPPERT(THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF INDIA), Dr. T.K.WNNSION(ENGLISH- TAMIL DICTIONARY), Dr. T.K. VELUPILLAI(TRAVANCORE STATE MANUAL.-----------PALLAR=MALLAR-------------VANNIYAR[PALLI] AND DEVENDRA KULA VELLALAR[PALLAR]ARE DOING AGRICULTURE ONLY.BOTH WERE WARRIORS. PALLARS ARE UNFOTUNATELY IN SC LIST.ONCE DEVENDRAS COME OUT OF SC LIST VANNIYAR BROTHERS ALSO WILL ACCEPT THE SIMILARITY. TILL THAT ONLY LEADES LIKE'" AYYA" ONLY TREAT PALLARS AS RELATIVES.
  
  
  
• From: nirosha (@ j19.stw21.jaring.my) on: Sun Jun 20 11:47:17 EDT 2004
  
  Tell me about Thiruvana Mallai. I believe my ancestors came from there. My great grandmother was Vanniar. She was rather partial to Telegus, I wonder why?
  
  
• From: veera vannier (@ 61.1.210.160) on: Mon Jun 21 10:29:41 EDT 2004
  
  I have been telling this before and I will tell again that you vanniers are not tamils but refugees who came into our land.The day will come when we will clean the mess that is you.YOu people have no rights to be here.you will all be pushed out of our land.go away goons to your dark dirty land.and don`t spread venom into tamilnadu.
  
  
• From: nirosha (@ j51.stw20.jaring.my) on: Mon Jun 21 21:55:59 EDT 2004
  
  What are you raving about Veera? Explain yourself! Which part of history are you referring to? Substantiate with time periods if possible.
  
  
• From: vannia velalan (@ palo3.pacific.net.sg) on: Tue Jun 22 00:43:01 EDT 2004
  
  Did vanniars are originally Tamils?
  I saw in some books that they were migrated from
  Andhra before 1000 years.
  
  If so give reasons
  
  
• From: DEV (@ 203.199.224.61) on: Wed Jun 23 02:51:39 EDT 2004
  
  PALLAR AND PALLI ARE TAMIL SPEAKING PURE AGRICULTURE BASED CASTES.IN SOUTHERN TAMILNADU PMK IS VISIBLE BECAUSE OF PALLARS[DEVENDRA KULA VELLALARS] . IN PERIYAKULAM MP ELECTION IN 1989 ITSELF PMK GOT 60000 VOTES AND THERE IS NO VANNIYARS. ONLY DEVENDRAS VOTED FOR PMK. BOTH WERE WARRIORS. BECAUSE OF NAICKERS AND MARATHIS RULE BOTH PALLAR AND PALLI LOST THEIR POWER. NOW PALLIS REGAINED SOME POWER SINCE THEY ARE IN MBC LIST. PALLARS ARE STILL STRUGGLING BECAUSE OF THEIR SC IDENDITY. YOUTHS BELONG TO PALLAR CASTES DONT WAT TO BE CALLES AS DALITS . THEY WANT TO COME COME OUT OF SC LIST . NADARS DID NOT WANT SC BENIFIT DURING 1935&GOT SOME SOCIAL STATUS.
  
  
• From: DEV (@ 203.199.224.61) on: Wed Jun 23 02:52:51 EDT 2004
  
  PALLAR AND PALLI ARE TAMIL SPEAKING PURE AGRICULTURE BASED CASTES-.IN SOUTHERN TAMILNADU PMK IS VISIBLE BECAUSE OF PALLARS[DEVENDRA KULA VELLALARS] -. IN PERIYAKULAM MP ELECTION IN 1989 ITSELF PMK GOT 60000 VOTES AND THERE IS NO VANNIYARS.- ONLY DEVENDRAS VOTED FOR PMK. BOTH WERE WARRIORS. -BECAUSE OF NAICKERS AND MARATHIS RULE BOTH PALLAR AND PALLI LOST THEIR POWER.- NOW PALLIS REGAINED SOME POWER SINCE THEY ARE IN MBC LIST.- PALLARS ARE STILL STRUGGLING BECAUSE OF THEIR SC IDENDITY.- YOUTHS BELONG TO PALLAR CASTES DONT WANT TO BE CALLES AS DALITS -. THEY WANT TO COME COME OUT OF SC LIST -. NADARS DID NOT WANT SC BENIFIT DURING 1935&GOT SOME SOCIAL STATUS-.
  
  
• From: Liberal (@ 207.188.73.226) on: Thu Jun 24 13:59:17 EDT 2004
  
  Too important for me
  
  
• From: fga (@ 24.171.25.136) on: Thu Jun 24 14:46:16 EDT 2004
  
  blah blah blah
  
  
• From: veera vannier (@ 61.1.210.150) on: Sat Jun 26 03:53:09 EDT 2004
  
  I`m not raing myself I I don`t have that kind of thing within my sleeve.What I speak is writtern ONthe books and these rats migrated from karnataka about some 1000 years before.And vanniers can`t be here taking their false pride as the real tamils.get lost to karnataka you monkeys from the black country.I don`t have to provide any explanations to you.You want to learn the hard way then we are ready .any real tamil is the tamils from the mid and southern regions. you are all refugees and coolies from the black country .get away even from this forum you drty pigs.
  
  
• From: Arivazhagan (@ ) on: Thu Dec 2 04:50:31
  
  Question posted by vannia velalan
  
  Did vanniars are originally Tamils?
  I saw in some books that they were migrated from
  Andhra before 1000 years.
  
  If so give reasons
  
  Dear Vannia velalan,
  
  The questions you have asked regarding migration of vanniars and their originality is trivial.
  
  Every one in the south must touched parts of north India, Andra Pradesh, Karnataka.
  
  At that time there is no language named telugu, malayalam, kannda (iam speaking only about dravidian languages)
  
  Also the only language at that time would be tamil as far the present details collected from the inscriptions found in all parts of India is accepted by the researchers all over the world.
  
  Also there is no distinction of caste between the dravidians, specifically there is no religion at that time and that’s why the answer for your question regarding the migration of vanniars from Andhra Pradesh seems to be more ambiguous that everyone's ancestors in the south must have migrated from Harrapa mohendaro (Currently in Pakistan) with the mother tongue tamil.
  
  Also recently 31st conference held in Andhra about Dravidian linguistics shows that the people of Andhra, Karnataka, karalla, obviously belong to the same tamil family.
  
  The reason for this difference made in the language system is mainly because of Aryans that is Brahmins who wanted to establish their supremacy in south changed the indivuality of all the languages by mixing it with Sanskrit, the language which was not proven to have written scriptings until today but developed later by copying from Dravidian languages.
  
  Also due to the Grammatical change and Pronunciation growth of tamil these languages including telugu, kanadam, malayalam, (even some more languages you can see in some parts of Karnataka, some parts in ooty, some parts in Mangalore, some parts in Andhra) came into existence with their own individuality and uniqueness that is derived from Tamil.
  
  
  
  
  So we can't say that the migration of vanniars is form Andhra.
  
  One more example is the vanniars as I explained in my previous response (See old response section) shows that a vast majority of people in south would belong to this single community irrespective of land but of only with Dravidian blood.
  
  Also all the people who are in the south except Brahmins are migrated form the Harrapa mohendaro area currently in the Pakistan division.
  
  Form that point if you see the inscription found and the scriptings in Harrapa mohendara are related to old tamil which means that we have migrated from that point only.
  One more thing you can note in that part a country named "Baluchistan" where the language named "Baluchi" a true dravidian language is still in existence shows that our ancestors would have been in that area also.
  
  So it is obvious that all the people in the south seems to be settled in one place of Kaveri Basin where our old tamil would have got a true and beautiful shape.
  
  In case if you take other community Adidravida’s(name given only in the southern part of India) , nadirs, chettiars, mudaliars, pillai’s, Mukulator’s(Kallar Maraver, Thevar’s)…..etc. shows that they came from one part of south only. So it is clear that we all belong to same family of tamil but of different place in south. But our view at that time was to develop tamil without seeing the religion, caste etc. which has not existed at that time period. But today the situation is completely different to analyze these things as we are bound with our caste system and the religious activities.
  
  
  
• From: Johnny babu (@ mv3-24.217.18.175.charter-stl.com) on: Fri Dec 3 18:00:03 EST 2004
  
  I said //blah blah blah//I take that back.
  
  
• From: davie (@ pc-w7pas2aur2ge) on: Fri Dec 3 21:08:45 EST 2004
  
  hehe.
  all these mess only because of the brahmins.
  we (kshatrias, vaishyas) used to provide these brahmins shelter and food and finally they are against us??
  
  

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