Topic started by Periyar Arivar (@ spider-tf021.proxy.aol.com) on Sun Jan 20 20:05:45 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Thirukkural is a secular literature and it does not belong to any particular religion. It belongs to all Tamils. However, its content is applicable to the entire humanity. In recent years attempts are being made by religious fundamentalists to link it to their religion and it shall be stopped.

Let us look at the following post:

<< From: Karthik (@ 129.212.54.201) on: Sat Jan 19 20:51:42
Let us see the kural (543) in Adhikaaram 54:

"Andhanar noorkkum aratthirkum adhiyaai
Nindradhu mannavan kol"

Translation:

"The just sceptre of the king should defend the propagation of the book (knowledge) of Brahmins." >>

His translation is absolutely WRONG. I wish he had attended a proper Tamil Language class. The correct translation of the above couplet is

“Even the priest’s scriptures and all virtues therein
Rely on the king’s scepter for sustenance”

The Kural 543 is under the chapter on “sengkOnmai” (Just Rein). Hence all 10 couplets in this chapter praise the rule with justice.

Readers need to understand that ThiruvaLuvar is a poet and all ten couplets in a chapter give precedence to the title of the chapter.

Continuing of his post,
<< Let me also mention 2 more Thirukkurals to show that it is certainly Hindu:

Kural 25:

"Aindhavatthaan aatral agal visumbulaar komaan
Indirane saalum kari"

Translation:

"Indra, the king of the heavenly, is the proof of the one who has gained strength by vanquishing his 5 senses" >>

Again his translation is absolutely WRONG. The Kural 25 is under the chapter “nEththAr perumai” (Greatness of Renunciates). The correct translation is

“Such is the power of those who subdue the five senses that even Indra,
Sovereign of spacious heaven’s celestials, suffered their curse”

This is what VaLLuvar says about Vedic heroes Devas in Kural 1073 under “kayamai”

“Thevar anaiyar kayavar avarunthAm
mEvana seithozuka lan”

VaLLuvar says that both kayavan (traitor, betrayer) and Deva are the same since both behave without any restraint or law.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: P.N.Kumar (@ 202.152.27.66) on: Fri Aug 9 09:25:29
  
  Dear PA
  ¿ýÈ¢ ¿ñÀ§Ã!
  «ýÒ¼ý,
  ÌÁ¡÷
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on: Fri Aug 9 12:42:23
  
  "However, we (i.e Eelam Tamils) do not learn Ramayana, Mahabharata, or Bhagavat Gita"
  
  That can’t be true we learnt Kamba Ramayanam in middle school Tamil school syllabus that even Christians are forced to learn (Like SV says its considered to be a secular literature)
  
  Gita and Mahabhratham are part my growing up. Chitra Katha(I) books with illustrated tales Of Mahabharatham and Ramayanam are taught to children as soon as they can identify pictures. I still remember how sad I felt (probably 5 yrs old) when Ravana cuts the wings of a Garuda when he tries save Sita. My mother caught me crying and stopped reading the Chitra Katha(i) book.
  
  So don’t make us ought to be who we are NOT. We are simple Hindu folks who follow our religion and some grow up to be what ever we want to be but don’t paint the entire nation with the color which appeals to you.
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Fri Aug 9 13:40:57
  
  Raveen,
  
  U once again made me emotional brother. This is what the silent majority feels but never says openly.
  
  This silence is used by the mischief mongers to destroy an entire community.
  
  I am nobody to thank u...as Hinduism is not my personal property ...it belongs to the whole world and more particularly Srilankan Tamils have traditionally been more Hindu than even myself or Indian Tamils.
  
  I once came across some evidence stating that the first Hindu-Tamil Sangam was established by Srilankan Tamils and they asserted before we could wake up to the threats.
  
  But oflate, persons like PA are trying to hijack and the Missioneries are fishing a lot of fishes in the troubled waters of SL.....infact among both Buddhists and Hindus(Tamils).But more from Tamils because of their plight and misery.
  
  Its heartening to see Raveen's recent posts.
  
  
• From: :) Punnahai (@ d221-216-98.systems.cogeco.net) on: Fri Aug 9 13:49:08
  
  >>I still remember how sad I felt (probably 5 yrs old) when Ravana cuts the wings of a Garuda when he tries save Sita. <<
  
  Raveen:
  
  Brough back memories :) My first Amar Chitra Katha was Pandavas.
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on: Fri Aug 9 14:54:29
  
  MMC and Punahai,
  
  Are these Chitra Katha(i) books still published ? another monthly book we would all wait for was Ambuli Mama, that is when we could read :))
  
  Folks very soon, I will not have the time that I have now to correspond with you through FH.
  
  I am moving to fill a more appropriate & responsible position from next Monday. So I will hop back in when ever I can. Thanks for all the fun and exchange of ideas :)))
  
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ nat-52.laurelnetworks.com) on: Fri Aug 9 15:05:10
  
  Raveen,,
  Hey dont leave man, you have provided some really good reading material for me. Hopefully this leaving is not permanant. Also yeah the chitra katha are still published. my sister gets them at home every month.
  
  
• From: :) Punnahai (@ d221-216-98.systems.cogeco.net) on: Fri Aug 9 15:05:34
  
  Raveen:
  
  Congratulations on your new job!
  
  Yes, amar chitra katha is still being published http://www.navrang.com/index.php
  
  Ambuli mama was a favourite of mine too, in English it used to be called Chandamama. If you read Ambuli Mama, I am sure you remember "Vedalam marupadiyum murungai marathil eri vittadhu" :) Did you ever read a book called Gokulam?
  
  Enid Blyton was also one of my favourites.
  
  Truly missing those days :(:(
  
  
• From: :) (@ d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net) on: Fri Aug 9 15:12:15
  
  sorry no murungai maram I think just maram :)
  
  
• From: Madurai Veeran (@ adsl-66-122-61-85.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) on: Sat Aug 10 00:04:33
  
  I think it was murungai maram.
  
  
• From: Periyar Arivar (@ spider-tn044.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Aug 10 00:54:31
  
  
  Raveen,
  Fri Aug 9 12:42:23
  
  "However, we (i.e Eelam Tamils) do not learn Ramayana, Mahabharata, or Bhagavat Gita"
  
  That can’t be true we learnt Kamba Ramayanam in middle school Tamil school syllabus that even Christians are forced to learn (Like SV says its considered to be a secular literature)
  
  When I was attending the schools in 1960s, kamba rAmAyaNam was taught only for Arts students as part of Tamil literature classes in Grade 9 and above. It was never taught to other students.
  
  Since you admit that Christians were in your class, it should have been taught part of Tamil language and not part of the Saiva literature. The question is how much detail was that instruction? Probably, very minimal.
  
  When you list that Ramayana and Mahabharata are being taught, then to be technically correct, you have to state that Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc. are also being taught to provide an overview of other religions. But this exposure is not adequate for any student to be proficient on these subjects. In my view, the time that is spent on the above topics is almost negligible compared to the time invested on Saiva thirumurAikaL and Saiva philosophical texts.
  
  When I was in Grade 8, I purchased copies of Ramayana and Mahabharata to read detailed description. However, it was not part of the school curriculum. How can these books be part of Saiva religion?
  
  I have a collection of Tamil and Saiva books that are being taught in Sri Lanka from Grade 1 through Grade 11 currently, I could not find anything on Ramayana, Mahabharata, or Bhagavat Gita.
  
  Chitra Katha(I) books with illustrated tales Of Mahabharatham and Ramayanam are taught to children as soon as they can identify pictures.
  
  I have neither seen nor used Chitra Katha books and they are not school textbooks.
  
  I still remember how sad I felt (probably 5 yrs old) when Ravana cuts the wings of a Garuda when he tries save Sita.
  
  When I read, I felt sorry for Ravana since he was described of Sri Lankan origin. I believed it was a barbaric act to cut the nose of Ravana’s sister (?). However, now I know that both Rama and Ravana are mythological characters and they had noting to do with Sri Lanka.
  
  So don’t make us ought to be who we are NOT. We are simple Hindu folks who follow our religion and some grow up to be what ever we want to be but don’t paint the entire nation with the color which appeals to you.
  
  Honestly, the above statement applies to you. Let us be just Saivite Tamils. All the textbooks are titled “saiva samayam”. Do not give the wrong impression to the Madras Lobby and New Delhi that they could manipulate us through religion.
  
  
  MMC
  
  But oflate, persons like PA are trying to hijack and the Missioneries are fishing a lot of fishes in the troubled waters of SL.....infact among both Buddhists and Hindus(Tamils).
  
  I thought you have changed after your hero was exposed. It appears you remain the same. You do what you want to do with your religion but please be assured that I will never let anyone to interfere with my religion.
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Sat Aug 10 14:55:05
  
  it broguht my memories too to the fore...
  
  there was this ambuli mama which used to be brought by my neighbours..i used to go to their house to read that....the drawings...wowow..
  
  yes , Gokulam was also one.....
  
  Amar chitra katha .....
  
  and Punnahai reminded me of Enid Blyton.... I simply used to visit the English country side along with the famous five in my dreams..:)
  
  I also used to love Irumbukkai Mayavi....even now i think it will ne funny if we have that capacity!:)) esp the drawings ......
  
  hmmmm...those were the days......!:((
  
  
  

Want to post a response?