Topic started by abc (@ gsine02.ny.us.ibm.com) on Wed Apr 3 20:38:01 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A jailer helps a Xian to escape from jail while he tortures other Tamil Hindu prisoners till they convert to Xianity.
ANy comments ?

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• From: mmc (@ 12-231-187-185.client.attbi.com) on: Wed Oct 1 20:34:21 EDT 2003
  
  HINDUISM & CASTE
  Caste (varna):
  Brahmin = Priest Caste;
  Ksatriya = Rajanya/Ruler/Warrior Caste;
  Vaisya = Commoner Caste;
  Sudra = Servant/Slave Caste; and
  Avarna = Outcaste/Untouchable/Dalit/Candala/Dog-eater.
  
  There are also many subsets in each caste. Dvija = twice-born (twice-born = upper 3 castes or sometimes just Brahmin caste particularly). Some Hindus have a delusion that caste is not promoted by any of their holy books. Is that really so? Let's find out:
  
  "By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter." -- Manusmrti 11:85.
  
  "People here whose behaviour is pleasant can expect to enter a pleasant womb, like that of a woman of the Brahmin, the Ksatriya, or the Vaisya caste. But people of foul behaviour can expect to enter the foul womb, like that of a dog, a pig, or an outcaste woman." -- Chandogya Upanisad 5:10:7.
  
  "If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at one of the twice-born, his tongue should be cut out, for he was born from the rear-end. If he mentions their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail ten-fingerslong should be thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to instruct priests about their duty, the king should have hot oil poured into his mouth and ears." -- Manusmrti 8:270-272.
  
  "If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the same seat as a man of superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and banished, or have his buttocks cut off." -- Manusmrti 8:281.
  
  "If in the process of negotiating betrothal there are first ten suitors of the non-Brahmana varna for a woman (the marriageable girl), all of them lose their claims of marriage and, only the Brahmin, the learned one, if he grasps her hand would be her husband and only he. Not even the man of Ksatriya varna and not even the man of Vaisya varna but only the Brahmin is the husband of the bride in such cases of claimants of betrothal, and the sun, as it appears, revealing this fact to the people of five classes (4 varnas and the fifth avarna) rises up." -- Atharva Veda 5:17:8-9.
  
  "If someone born in a Ksatriya, Vaisya, or Sudra womb should be unable to pay his fine, he may absolve himself of the debt by labour; a Brahmin should pay little by little. The king should have women, children, madmen, and the old, the poor, and the ill chastised with a whip, a bamboo cane, a rope, and so forth." -- Manusmrti 9:229-230.
  
  "The Sudra's duty and supreme good is nothing but obedience to famous Brahmin householders who know the Veda. If he is unpolluted, obedient to his superiors, gentle in his speech, without a sense of 'I', and always dependent on the Brahmins and the other (twice-born castes), he attains a superior birth (in the next life)." -- Manusmrti 9:334-335.
  
  "…thereby the Ksatriya, whenever he likes, says, 'Hello Vaisya, just bring to me what you have stored away!' Thus he both subdues him and obtains possession of anything he wishes by dint of this very energy." -- Satapatha Brahmana 1:3:2:15.
  
  "One-fourth of (the punishment for) Brahmin-killing is traditionally regarded as (the punishment) for the killing of a Ksatriya, one-eighth for (killing) a Vaisya, and it should be one-sixteenth for (killing) a Sudra who knows his place." -- Manusmrti 11:127.
  
  "A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is learned, just as fire is a great deity whether or not it is brought to the altar. The purifying fire with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in cremation grounds, and when oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices it grows even greater. Thus Brahmins should be revered in every way, even if they engage in all kinds of undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity. If the Ksatriyas become overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, the Brahmins themselves should subdue them, for the Ksatriyas were born from the Brahmins." -- Manusmrti 9:317-320.
  
  "A Ksatriya in adversity may also make a living by all of these (means); but he should never be so proud as to assume the livelihood of his betters. If a man of the lowest caste should, through greed, make his living by the innate activities of his superiors, the king should confiscate his wealth and banish him immediately. One's own duty, (even) without any good qualities, is better than someone else's duty well done; for a man who makes his livingby someone else's duty immediately falls from (his own) caste." -- Manusmrti 10:95-97.
  
  "With whatever limb an inferior insults or hurts his superior in caste, of that limb the king shall cause him to be deprived. If he places himself on the same seat with his superior, he shall be banished with a mark on hisbuttocks. If he spits on him, he shall lose both lips; If he breaks wind against him, his hindparts; If he uses abusive language, his tongue. If a (lowborn) man through pride gives instruction (to a member of the highest caste) concerning his duty, let the king order hot oil to be dropped into his mouth. If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot)." -- Visnusmrti 5:19-25.
  
  "His (Purusa's) mouth became the Brahmin; his arms were made into the Ksatriya, his thighs the Vaisya, and from his feet the Sudra was born." -- Rig Veda 10:90:12.
  
  In comparison, Sudras are as low as feet & Outcastes (avarna) are even below that status of course.
  
  [Index]
  
  
  
  
  
  HINDUISM'S TREATMENT OF OUTCASTES (AVARNA)
  
  "Candalas must live out of the town, and their clothes must be the mantles of the deceased." -- Visnusmrti 16:14.
  
  "These (castes) should live near mounds, trees, and cremation-grounds, in mountains and in groves, recognizable and making a living by their own innate activities. But the dwellings of 'Fierce' Untouchables (candala) and 'Dog-cookers' (svapaca) should be outside the village; they must use discarded bowls, and dogs and donkeys should be their wealth. Their clothing should be the clothes of the dead, and their food should be in broken dishes; their ornaments should be made of black iron, and they should wander constantly. A man who carries out his duties should not seek contact with them; they should do business with one another and marry with those who are like them. Their food, dependent upon others, should be given to them in abroken dish, and they should not walk about in villages and cities at night." -- Manusmrti 10:50-54.
  
  "If one who (being a member of the Candala or some other outcaste) must not be touched, intentionally defiles by his touch one who (as a member of a twice-born caste) may be touched (by other twice-born persons only), he (or she) shall be put to death. If a woman in her courses (touches such a person), she shall be lashed with a whip." -- Visnusmrti 5:104-5.
  
  [Index]
  
  
  
  
  CASTE IN THE GITA
  
  There is ample justification in the Gita alone to maintain caste divisions & oppressions; here are Lord Krsna's words:
  
  "It is far better to perform one's svadharma (prescribed duties), even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous." -- Bhagavad-Gita 3:35.
  
  "According to the three modes of material nature (goodness, passion, ignorance) and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society (Brahmin/Ksatriya/Vaisya/Sudra) are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable." -- Bhagavad-Gita 4:13.
  
  "It is better to engage in one's own svadharma (occupation), even though one may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's occupation and perform it perfectly. Duties prescribed according to one's nature are never affected by sinful reactions." -- Bhagavad-Gita 18:47.
  
  Lord Rama (who, like Lord Krsna, is an Avatar of Lord Visnu) would be in complete accord with the above quotes; afterall, he killed an innocent Sudra, Sambuka, only because he was performing austerities which were not prescribed duties for low-castes (ref. Ramayana 7:88-89).
  
  [Index]
  
  
  
  
  
  HINDUISM & SLAVERY (BY CASTE)
  
  "(The king) should make a Vaisya engage in trade, lend money, farm the land, or keep livestock; and (he should make) the Sudra the slave of the twice-born. A Brahmin should out of mercy support both a Ksatriya and a Vaisya if they are starved for a livelihood, and have them carry out their own innate activities. But if a Brahmin, out of greed and a sense of power, makes twice-born men who have undergone the transformative rituals do the work of slaves against their will, the king should make him pay a fine of six hundred (pennies). He may, however, make a Sudra do the work of a slave, whether he is bought or not bought; for the Self-existent one created him to be the slave of the Brahmin. Even if he is set free by his master, a Sudra is not set free from slavery; for since that is innate in him, who can take it from him? There are seven ways that slaves come into being: taken under a flag (of war), becoming a slave in order to eat food, born in the house, bought, given, inherited from ancestors, or enslaved as a punishment. A wife, a son, and a slave: these three are traditionally said to have no property; whatever property they acquire belongs to the man to whom they belong. A Brahmin may with confidence take away any possession from a Sudra; for since nothing at all can belong to him as his own, his property can be taken away by his master. (The king) should make the Vaisya and the Sudra carry out their own innate activities diligently; for if the two of them should slip from their own innate activities, they would shake this universe into chaos." -- Manusmrti 8:410-418.
  
  [Index]
  
  
  
  
  LOW-CASTES SHOULD HAVE GARBAGE NAMES
  
  Hinduism teaches that Sudras are trash & should be named accordingly:
  
  "The Namadheya (naming-rite) must be performed as soon as the term of impurity (caused by the birth of the child) is over. (The name to be chosen should be) auspicious in the case of a Brahmana; Indicating power in the case of a Ksatriya; Indicating wealth in the case of a Vaisya; Indicating contempt in the case of a Sudra." -- Visnusmrti 27:5-9.
  
  [Index]
  
  
  
  
  LORD SIVA CONDEMNED FOR ALLOWING A LOW-CASTE (A SUDRA) TO READ VEDAS
  
  Women & Sudras (& outcastes) are not allowed to study the Vedas; this is one reason this "God" Siva is denounced for allowing a Sudra the Vedic teachings. Daksa's curse is as follows:
  
  "The Brahmins will not sacrifice to you along with the other gods, for Siva has defiled the path followed by good men; he is impure, an abolisher of rites and demolisher of barriers, [who gives] the word of the Vedas to a Sudra. He wanders like a madman, naked, laughing, the lord of ghosts, evil-hearted. Let Siva, the lowest of the gods, obtain no share with Indra and Visnu at the sacrifice; let all the followers of Siva be heretics, opponents of the true scriptures, following the heresy whose god is the king of ghosts." -- Brahma Purana 2:13:70-73; Garuda Purana 6:19; Bhagavata Purana 4:2:10-32.
  
  [Index]
  
  
  
  
  HINDU GODS DO NOT COMMUNE WITH LOW-CASTES
  
  In Hinduism, it is understood that women cannot sacrifice or conduct official yajnas (nor become priests of course) because a male relative is required. However, the unfortunate news is that Hindu Gods do not talk to those detested things called 'low-castes' either:
  
  "Now the gods do not commune with everyone, but only with a Brahmin, or a Rajanya (Ksatriya), or a Vaisya; for these are able to sacrifice. Should there be occasion for him to converse with a Sudra, let him say to one of those, 'Tell this one so and so! Tell this one so and so!' This is the rule of conduct for the consecrated in such a case." -- Satapatha Brahmana 3:1:1:10.
  
  Low-castes do not need to despair; Hindu scriptures are utterly ruthless in degrading almost anyone who is Hindu (mortal or divine). Perhaps Brahmins are the exception to the rule though (not women of Brahmins however).
  
  [Index]
  
  
  LOW-CASTE WIVES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SERVE THE GUESTS
  
  According to the timeless Visnusmrti, only the twice-born caste wives (Brahmin wives, Ksatriya wives & Vaisya wives) of a twice-born man, but not the Sudra wife, are allowed to serve the guests during the sacrifice. He (and she) will be barred from entering heaven if he permits a low caste wife to offer such hospitalities:
  
  "A union of a twice-born man with a Sudra wife can never produce religious merit; it is from carnal desire only that he marries her, being blinded by lust. Men of the three first castes, who through folly marry a woman of the lowest caste, quickly degrade their families and progeny to the state of Sudras. If his oblations to the gods and manes and (his hospitable attentions) to guests are offered principally through her (a Sudra wife's) hands, the gods and manes (and the guests) will not eat such offerings, and he will not go to heaven." -- Visnusmrti 26:5-7.
  
  
  
  
• From: anbu (@ s00dab8.ssa.gov) on: Tue Oct 7 15:34:38 EDT 2003
  
  mmc, please stop spamming the board.
  
  
• From: >>> (@ 220.226.29.185) on: Sun Oct 12 14:53:23 EDT 2003
  
  May be you are right. But you people are sold out to Pope. Watch out every sunday , how many are selling themselves for 50 Rs and a meal to the Pope and christianity. dravids are always getting sold out. First they were sold out to Shangarcharya, then Muslims, and Now Chrisitians. Tell me how many thousands convert every week in Tamilnadu? I know all most every village in TN has
  church small or big.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sun Oct 12 21:03:45 EDT 2003
  
  That is not a problem for a Gujarati cheat like you!
  
  You are always interested in selling.. India was sold out by Gujaratis to others. Now only Narendra Modi and others came to a sense and cry for HINDU religion!
  
  You Gujaratis better go to your Gujarat and make a living there. How many criminal gangs you have in Madras?
  
  
  

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