Topic started by CZ Guilmoto (@ 81.185.35.122) on Thu Aug 28 10:03:03 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Vannakam!
I have read with interest messages of this group as many contributors seem to be highly knowledgeable about the Vellalar community.

I have a scholarly question regarding the Vellalars in Coimbatore and Salem (Kongu Vellalar). Are they exactly of the same origin?

My question arises from a study of the Salem district where female discrimination -infanticide being even common- is found to be often linked to the local Vellalars (also known as Kavuntar Gounders). See for example
www.piigrassroots.org/feb200230.htm

What is surprising is that while this pratice is common in Salem and Dharmapuri district, it is absolutely non existent in near-by Coimbatore or Tiruppur districts. When statistics of female discrimination are examined (census data, infant mortality rates), female discrimination seems to entirely vanish when one moves from Salem city towards Coimbaore across the Kaveri.

Some local people told me once that local Vellalars in Salem area do not always intermarry with people from Coimbatore and that they may from a different subgroup. My guess is that a lot of them are from a different origin (Vanniyar, Kurumbar ?) but they have been incorporated in the Vellalar fold during the colonial period or later on.

Hence my question: are Salem and Coimbatore of the same origin and do they constitute a single group? Has anyone any clue about this admittedly very complex question ?

Thanks in advance

CZG

Responses:

• From: Sri Nivasan (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Thu Aug 28 23:18:26 EDT 2003
  
  What is the appearance of Kongu Vellalas?
  Are they appear similar to Sozhias and Pandias.
  
  Don't you think the appearance of Jungle people like Kurumbas,Mukkularthos and Vannias are markedly different from Indian Vellala groups.
  
  To be frank I have seen Vellala who are Heavily build and muscular only in Sri lanka.
  But presence of Vellalas in Sri lanka is a highly debatable point as Jaffna kings claimed to be Brahmanas and caste associated with Jaffna was Kumara Madapalliyars.
  
  
  
• From: tamilnesan (@ 210-210-64-92.lan.sify.net) on: Sat Aug 30 01:11:33 EDT 2003
  
  i think both salemand coimbatore kongu vellala groups are same.only socio and economic factor plays in female discrimination cases.in wealty velala families of salem there is no such discrimination seen.
  (there may be a gender bias which is common in all communities i am not refrening that)
  so both belong to same group
  
  
• From: Ragu (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Wed Sep 1 13:52:18
  
  srilankan jaffna vellalars are origin of kallar maravar agampadiyar.
  
  
• From: Tamilan-1 (@ m178.bitfone.com) on: Wed Sep 1 20:59:13 EDT 2004
  
  Romba mukkiam muttalgala. Nuke caste u idiots!
  
  
• From: singan (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Mon Sep 6 06:59:52 EDT 2004
  
  Hi Tmilan !are you a fool? why do you get faint?
  
  
• From: ukchristian (@ 202.174.158.9) on: Mon Sep 6 12:07:49 EDT 2004
  
  These people are worried about their origin a few hundred years ago but I am worried about our origin before that.
  
  
• From: singan (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Tue Sep 7 06:57:35 EDT 2004
  
  kallar maravar agamudayar mella mella maruvi vellalar aaginar.(from traditional tamil)this is also belong to North srilankan vellalars.they converted themselves into vellalar`s name to hide them from`kutta paramparai`.
  
  
• From: Padmanaban (@ 61.95.184.1) on: Tue Sep 14 09:43:03 EDT 2004
  
  for Srinivasan
  
  I think you have no sense about the Kurumbars,
  if you want to learn something about this people
  read this Book "Kurubara Sarithiram" wrote by Hanumanthrayya .
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sun Sep 26 09:58:16
  
  yes! in jaffna,the kallar maravar agamudayar pallar vanniyar mella mella nadanthu vellalar aaginar.(from prof.kaarthikesu sivathamp`s research books)
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sun Sep 26 14:29:44 EDT 2004
  
  original vellalars were in jaffna only less 2%.along with that the predominate cast pallar(mallar=pallar) kallar maravar agamudayar are calling themselves that they are vellalars.
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sun Sep 26 14:33:23 EDT 2004
  
  salem coimbatur vellalars may be originals.
  
  
• From: pillai (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Tue Sep 28 04:40:56 EDT 2004
  
  what is the typical vellala appearance.
  
  
• From: Raja (@ 203.122.12.2) on: Tue Sep 28 05:43:30 EDT 2004
  
  There are some more vellalars other than Kongu Vellala Gounder in the Salem district. They use Pillai and some of the popular DMK/ADMK leaders like Rajaram, Mathiazhagan, KA Krishnaswamy, etc., belong to this group. They were mostly into Kodical farming of Betel leaves.
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Mon Oct 4 08:49:00 EDT 2004
  
  dear coimputur vellalars!don`t compare your cast with jaffna vellalars.why? the jaffna vellalars are origin of madappaliyar,pallar(mallar)singalagoviyans,vellalar(only2%)maravar and just some few castes.this is being proved.thi is very true to according to the historical evidence.
  
  
• From: Dev (@ cache-dtc-ae09.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Oct 4 19:27:40 EDT 2004
  
  Mr.Aravind,
  
  Dont include srilankan pallars to TN pallars.devendra kulathors(Tn pallars) were from the same region as the origin of tamil kingdoms(Madurai ,Ramanathapuram dist.etc.) They all are therefore the Pandiyas who came after the deluge in kumari kandam.Therefore they are one of the originals of the ancient pandiyan and chozan kingoms while srilankan pallars are that county's indeginous poeples.Thanks.
  
  
• From: Dev (@ cache-dtc-ae09.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Oct 4 19:30:19 EDT 2004
  
  In Madurai ,Ramanathapuram dist there are the mukalathors and devendra kulathars who all were the founders of the pandiyan kingdom and were the progenitors of teh tamil language.
  
  
• From: Dev (@ cache-dtc-ae09.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Oct 4 19:49:29 EDT 2004
  
  In Madurai ,Ramanathapuram* dist
  
  correction-should read as Ramnad* dist.
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sat Oct 9 15:04:54 EDT 2004
  
  MR. Dev,
  
  the north srilankan (Jaffna)pallar came from chola Naadu according to the historical evidence.you can read this true from ``yaalpana vaipavamaalai``which is historical book.the jaffna pallar or mallar belong to the cholas kingdom. along with that `` more Vathiriyar are living in vadamaraatchi which is calling by their cast name Vathri.jaffna pallar will never come to TN.now they are citizen of srilankan.but you or they must give the voice mutually only for caste freedom.do you hate them?thanks.
  
  
• From: Dev (@ cache-mtc-ae09.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Oct 9 22:20:12 EDT 2004
  
  Hello aravind,forget it, I did not know this.But I have heard that u guys own tea estates there or atleast in the 1940's.Best wishes.
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Mon Oct 11 06:55:47 EDT 2004
  
  MR. dev, thank you for your understandings.
  
  
• From: Balakrishnan S Naicker (@ zukprxpro02.zreo.compaq.com) on: Thu Oct 14 15:03:59 EDT 2004
  
  First started dividing the people by "religions" followed languages, castes, etc
  
  Now this thread divides the people by locations though they from the same caste. Shame on you !!!!! :-(
  
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sun Oct 17 09:04:30 EDT 2004
  
  the jaffna vellalar have no suitable to call themselves that they are vellalar.originaly,they are mixed with Madappalliyar,vellalar.(vellalar from TN only 2%)pallar,maravar,sinhalaGovians.any one can read, one the devendraVellalan who participated jaffna kingdom.this true is being proved by the ``yaalppana vaipavamaalai``which is a historical book.
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sun Oct 17 09:07:33 EDT 2004
  
  devndraVellalan means Devendrakulavellalar.
  
  
• From: aravind (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Sun Oct 17 09:09:36 EDT 2004
  
  the jaffna vellalar have no suitable to call themselves that they are vellalar.originaly,they are mixed with Madappalliyar,vellalar.(vellalar from TN only 2%)pallar,maravar,sinhalaGovians.any one can read, one the devendraVellalan who participated in ruling jaffna kingdom.this true is being proved by the ``yaalppana vaipavamaalai``which is a historical book.
  
  
• From: Gabikévin (@ d213-103-90-164.cust.tele2.fr) on: Mon Nov 22 17:38:48
  
  God created man in his own image, he loves you all. In his sight all are same. I think that caste is really curse to man. it brings only discrimination among the people.
  God bless you all.
  
  
• From: davie (@ e228-023.ecc.utep.edu) on: Wed Nov 24 05:41:43 EST 2004
  
  gab ur one true christian
  
  
• From: Gabikévin (@ d213-103-244-182.cust.tele2.fr) on: Wed Nov 24 12:19:46 EST 2004
  
  Merci beaucoup Davie.
  Merci pour votre compréhension Davie.
  
  
• From: joh (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Wed Dec 1 09:13:51 EST 2004
  
  in jaffna,the kallar maravar akampadiyar mellap pallarkalum Vellalar aaginar.
  
  
• From: joh (@ fw1.iib.ch) on: Wed Dec 1 09:15:40 EST 2004
  
  in jaffna,the kallar maravar akampadiyar mellap pallarkalum Vellalar aaginar.this is actually true.these are being proved by historical evidence.
  
  

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