Hinduism, Initial concept of Shiva, Trinity...

[PARAMASHIVAN]

My statement was supposed to be a joke .

But there is as high possibilty that the Earth's Continental plates were all joined together over millions of year ago, and got seperated by Tsunamis alike, Look at lanka for example, wasn't seperated by Tidal waves or what is known as Tsunami (now) thousands of year ago ?

[Sunil_M88]

@Nov, the name Siva is taken from the thamizh word "red" (I don't know if this is an act of thamizh extremists as in sanskrit it mean the auspicious one ) Has siva always been what he has today or transformed from Rudra and is there such a thing as a rudra lingam or is it the same as siva lingam? Pardon my ignorance.

@Paramashivan and others.

I came across something which may interest you, if you haven't already please watch Vedic Scholar Nicholas Kazanas videos on Youtube.

This is my favourite video, interview by S. Kalyanaraman



@ 5.38 (Bearing in mind Buddhism is off-shoot of Hinduism, This is also the principle that Buddha spread i.e. Godhead inside one or enlightenment)

My take

G = great
O = omnipresent
D = divine

[PARAMASHIVAN]

the name Siva is taken from the thamizh word "red"

Sivapoo/ Sigapoo is the word meaning red, so I don't see the connection.

Has siva always been what he has today or transformed from Rudra and is there such a thing as a rudra lingam or is it the same as siva lingam?

No, Linga worship was first form of worship, but earlier Shiva has been refered as Rudra !

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Sunil

Pls give me a moment, I will explain , but busy at work

[Sunil_M88]

I was born into a Hindu family but recently after diving deep through intricacies, I find there are many contradictions in this religion as well as conflicting beliefs. God is far too great to be placed in any religion. Religion is only a focal point and if anyone asks me, I'd say that I'm an agnostic thiest who doesn't deny the supernatural.

Over the weekend, I went to celebrate Shri Krishna Janamashtmi Maha Mahotsav and visited a stall "Back to godhead", which just like any other Isckon subsidiary, primarily aims to get people chanting their transcendental Maha Mantra. Anyway I saw a family tree of Lord Krishna (Trying to find this picture online and no luck so far!) starting with Lord Vishnu, second to come was Lord Brahma in brackets reading from the Lord Vishnu’s naval and then in the third generation amongst others like Agni, Vayu etc. was Lord Shiva.

I was totally baffled... I came home and done my research and found out the Lord Shiva himself is the Trimurti, i.e. Sadyajota (Brahma), Vamadeva (Vishnu) and Aghora (Shiva).

The former belief is obviously a Vaishnav one and the later being a Saivite one. But seriously, despite being considered the oldest religion, Hinduism is no way a religion and is rather a set of collected beliefs that is still evolving even today. So many branches and then you have taboo matters as caste which divides this religion further. At best it should be considered a way of life, not a religion. As a Hindu I used to question myself and say if I believe in Hanuman, then I'm not doing justice to Shiva. If I believe in Mata then I'm not doing justice to Krishna, etc. I used to feel guilty in praying to individual gods though I knew God wouldn't mind as long as I worship him/her in any form. So over the years I've become a monotheist, who doesn't comprehend the idea of worshiping different gods even if they are focal points. I’m not against Polytheism; I just don’t seem to understand it. When I feel that I've received a blessing I just thank god and don't feel the need in chanting a prayer devoted to a specific god. Occasionally I end up chanting, Om Namah Shivay, Namoh Narayan, Jai Mata di, Hare Krishna etc. without any reasoning. I feel that it’s the soul that makes this accidental decision and not the mind.

I also chant Jai Ho! for Rahman Ji lol Jokes apart, as a conclusion, one needs not to be religious or pious! You can still feel a personal connection with the supreme without having a religion. This is just how I feel and spirituality has overtaken my religion for me.
I just wanted to question the Trimurti but ended up getting carried away lol

One World. One Family.

[anbu_kathir]

I was born into a Hindu family but recently after diving deep through intricacies, I find there are many contradictions in this religion as well as conflicting beliefs. God is far too great to be placed in any religion. Religion is only a focal point and if anyone asks me, I'd say that I'm an agnostic thiest who doesn't deny the supernatural.

Over the weekend, I went to celebrate Shri Krishna Janamashtmi Maha Mahotsav and visited a stall "Back to godhead", which just like any other Isckon subsidiary, primarily aims to get people chanting their transcendental Maha Mantra. Anyway I saw a family tree of Lord Krishna (Trying to find this picture online and no luck so far!) starting with Lord Vishnu, second to come was Lord Brahma in brackets reading from the Lord Vishnu’s naval and then in the third generation amongst others like Agni, Vayu etc. was Lord Shiva.

I was totally baffled... I came home and done my research and found out the Lord Shiva himself is the Trimurti, i.e. Sadyajota (Brahma), Vamadeva (Vishnu) and Aghora (Shiva).

The former belief is obviously a Vaishnav one and the later being a Saivite one. But seriously, despite being considered the oldest religion, Hinduism is no way a religion and is rather a set of collected beliefs that is still evolving even today. So many branches and then you have taboo matters as caste which divides this religion further. At best it should be considered a way of life, not a religion. As a Hindu I used to question myself and say if I believe in Hanuman, then I'm not doing justice to Shiva. If I believe in Mata then I'm not doing justice to Krishna, etc. I used to feel guilty in praying to individual gods though I knew God wouldn't mind as long as I worship him/her in any form. So over the years I've become a monotheist, who doesn't comprehend the idea of worshiping different gods even if they are focal points. I’m not against Polytheism; I just don’t seem to understand it. When I feel that I've received a blessing I just thank god and don't feel the need in chanting a prayer devoted to a specific god. Occasionally I end up chanting, Om Namah Shivay, Namoh Narayan, Jai Mata di, Hare Krishna etc. without any reasoning. I feel that it’s the soul that makes this accidental decision and not the mind.

I also chant Jai Ho! for Rahman Ji lol Jokes apart, as a conclusion, one needs not to be religious or pious! You can still feel a personal connection with the supreme without having a religion. This is just how I feel and spirituality has overtaken my religion for me.
I just wanted to question the Trimurti but ended up getting carried away lol

One World. One Family.

Sunilji

Excuse me if I ask you a personal question, did you live the majority of your personality-forming years in a country other than India?

"Hinduism" is not a religion, indeed, in the notion of Abrahamic religions. But it is a religion in the sense that its fundamental principles are founded on the Veda, which is its holy text.

It is natural to be bewildered by such a "religion" where the people who call themselves as "hindus" subscribe to a whole lot of different and conflicting ideas. Although you do indeed see a similar diversity with other religions (the flavours of Islam, Christianity is a testimony to the fact that they are too not without diversity), in no other do you find it to the extent you find it in Hinduism. The reason for these conflicting ideas is simply that Hinduism allows for different interpretations of the Vedic words according to the nature and mindset of its followers. It allows the diversity, as long as the general guidelines given by the Veda are not contradicted.

As to the issue of polytheism in Hinduism, you yourself have provided the answer.

I knew God wouldn't mind as long as I worship him/her in any form.

You do realise that God is one indeed (in Hinduism), only the forms and names are different. Even when a devout Vaishnavite worships Lord Vishnu, he doesn't simply worship one name or one form. There is the Vishnu Sahasranama which speaks of Vishnu with a thousand names and in a thousand forms (well, nearly.. there are a few repetitions :P) and this devotee is perfectly OK with worshipping Vishnu with all these names and in all these forms. So there is no such thing in Hinduism where God exists only in a particular form alone. So there is no need to feel "guilty" wrt other forms, when you are worshiping one form. Just as you may be playing different roles in your life, like being a son, father, brother, employee, employer, student etc., in the same way, the one and only Lord takes up these names and forms according to the roles that needed to be taken up at those particular occasions. So there is no contradiction at all.

In fact, Hinduism is one of the few religions in this world which is perfectly fine with embracing and encouraging the thinking faculty among the people. As the thirst for knowing the Lord is shown, so too the Lord opens ways for knowing and understanding Her in Her truer and truer forms, which are rewards not just for faith but also for the growing intellect.

Love and Light.

[NOV]

I knew God wouldn't mind as long as I worship him/her in any form.

God does not need worship or acknowledgement. He will survive your ignoring him.
Do your duties and do not expect anything in return. Uphold dharma.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Isckon subsidiary,.

I used to work in oxford circus, this is where their main chanting/march used to be, they also have Radha Krishna mandir in Soho, which I have attended at tender age I was really moved by such movement! But I have realised that this movement has no rational/logical answers regarding the supreme! They are simply a fanatical movement founded in 1960's and were a cult like movement, it started off in USA! I would stay away from such movement and start the realisation of divine within you.

[NOV]

A large group of hungry people go to a multi-cuisine restaurant.
Some people order typical Indian light food like thosai & chapati
Some others would like to eat heavier stuff like rice with curry or naan and tandoori.
Then there is some who would like to eat noodles and others who would like to eat chicken chop & condiments.

Each person eats what fulfils his hunger and taste bud. Each food is not inferior or superior to another.
Neither does one food feels neglected when you do not eat it.
The idea is to fill the stomach. Thats it.

[Sunil_M88]

Anbu Sir,

Yes, I'm from London, one of the worlds multicultural melting pots

Sanatana Dharma (The eternal law) as read on Wiki (A site open to edit) states that amongst polytheism, monotheism and pantheism even atheism is encompassed as a set of a belief.

I've got a friend, from India (Also Hindu) who came to study here in the UK. He asked me a VALID question, to which I became hesitant to reply and this has had some effect in shaping me. He saw a prayer book in my dorm and asked, "Do you know the meaning of every prayer you read or do you just recite it for the sake of praying?" I paused and he asked me again, "What's the point in praying, if you don't understand the prayer?"

For e.g. Gayatri Mantra - The most universal chant amongst Hinduism and different people from different sects chant this on a day to day basis. I did not know how to translate it and hence couldn't answer his question at that time. I took that scenario as a stepping stone and realized that it's only worth reciting a hymn/chant etc. if you understand it. Hence where possible I try to find translations, otherwise honestly it does seem pretty pointless.

Instead of doing the conventional prayers, he used to directly ask for guidance and express his gratitude via the means of not praying to god. This is better than reciting a prayer which you don’t understand, right? Or does a prayer have more effect, even if you don’t know what you’re reciting? Another notion he put forward, was that all different religious books are manmade. It’s not really the word of God!

Digression - I used to read Hanuman Chalisa every night and started noticing a pattern in my dreams. After chanting this prayer for Hanuman Ji (considered a remover of fear), I used to see myself reminiscing fun times with my junior school friends, who I hardly chat now. Strange but true! – End digression!

Recently, after reading many articles on Sufism and Buddhism I’ve come to an agreement that there is God inside each and every one of us and some of us are enlightened to know this directly this and some aren’t. But after visiting holy places, e.g. mosque, churches and mandir’s I do feel there is God beyond our body. When visiting these places of worship, generally there are herds of people who share and are surrounded by the same divine energy. I too feel this energy and don’t think it’s just a contagious feeling that everyone does just to fit in the scene.

BTW, my granddad belongs to the Arya Samaj sect of Hinduism, who prohibit the of idol worshiping and worship “Aum” instead, but after my mum joined the family, he became a devotee of Shiv Ji. Having faith is “Aum” is a great idea for
Monotheist Hindus.

I asked a Muslim friend, who like me isn’t religious but spiritual. He also question’s the idea of religion but does believe in God. I told him that I don’t see the idea of worshiping a stone to which he replied, “Did you know that idol worshiping exists in Islam?” Down the convo he said the main reciting they do is “a Ilaha Illallah Muhammad Rasool Allah” translated to “There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God”

Hence, when Muslims go to dargahs and pray to a grave/tomb of a saint or peer it is considered idol worshiping. To make me feel better about Hinduism, he said idol worshiping is only seen as a focal point.

Sorry to drag the convo into many digressions, but sometimes I really do not know where I stand with religion.

Nov, WRT to our convo on FB, the day we meet, before doing anything else, we should deffo go for a phat meal