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Old Hindi Film Music
Topic suggested by SR Kaushik on Mon Feb 1 14:34:08 .
First of all, an apology. This section is on films but I am taking the liberty of inserting this topic because
1. There is a thread on Malayalam Film Music right here.
2. I think this topic deserves a separate thread and I found no better place to put it.
Getting to the topic itself: I think old HFM MDs were a highly capable lot. No, I'm not referring to just tunes. The orchestral colorations, although not (IMO) up to the standard of IR, were pretty good.
I'd like to discuss some of their achievements.
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RR (@ pb.c*) on: Mon Feb 1 20:43:34
Kausik,
No need to apologise. Any aspect of indian films is welcome here (except of course Tamil Film Music :-) for which we have a better place.)
I'll post on this topic later.
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RS (@ sung*) on: Tue Feb 2 08:08:31
Kaushik: Is it only about the music or can we talk about the lyrics of the old songs too.
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nalini (@ ) on: Tue Feb 2 11:18:12
Ah! One of my favourite topics - old Hindi Film music. Thrilled to see this thread. (And I don't see why we can't discuss lyrics also).
Will be back later with some of my favourites.
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Wed Feb 3 11:10:35
i can't possibly list my favs because there are just too many of them, but what the hell, let's begin.
kabhi kabhi mere dil mein - Mukesh
o manjhi re - Kishore
zindagi bhar nahin bhoolegi - Rafi
mere mehboob tujhe - Rafi
o sajna barkha bahaar aayee - Lata
aaja ree main to kab se khadi - Lata
chalo ek baar phir se - Mahendra Kapoor
tum pukar lo - Hemant Kumar
yeh raat yeh chandni - Hemant Kumar
and every song that talat mehmood sang.
where's everybody, i am dying to get started.
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SR Kaushik (@ elro*) on: Wed Feb 3 14:29:56
All of you are welcome to discuss lyrics too.
My favorite composers is SDB. Mind you, all his contemporaries were great too but IMO he was, let us say, the first among near-equals.
Even Shankar Jaikishan were a great duo. I think they were the MDs most well versed in WCM. It showed in their use of violins and their chord progressions.
Let me begin with a few songs that I think were good not only tune-wise but also in other technical aspects:
1. Ae dil mujhe bata de (very old song, I don't know which film; MD- Madanmohan) - an excellent WC piece repeated in both interludes.
2. Waqt ne diya - MD:SDB, sung by Geeta Dutt (was the film Pyaasa?). It had those typical olden day piano beats and a great bassy violin interlude.
3. Tum pukar lo - MD & singer- Hemant Kumar; I like it mainly for the lazy and romantic touch which Hemantda has given to this song while singing it. It includes a very good violin piece too. I also liked the chord progression for the pallavi.
4. Nakhrewali - (MD: SJ; singer-Kishore Kumar) amazing tune very well colored.
Of course what I have mentioned is merely infinitesimal. There's lots of further ground to cover.
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Thu Feb 4 04:38:20
srk, its waqt ne kiya, not diya, and is
not in Pyaasa but Kaagaz ke flowers (hindi-yil ezhuthina frobidden (?) word-nnu varudhu ).
Absolutely brilliant song, with some great lyrics by Kaifisaab.
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nalini (@ 169.*) on: Thu Feb 4 10:44:13
Yes - if I too were to list all my favourites here, we might run out of the quota allocated for this site! To make it easier on myself, I'll start with categorizing them by MD's. Of course, S.D Burman happens to be one of my favourites too!
Jayen to Jayen Kahan (Talat - Taxi Driver)
Tere Mere Sapne (Rafi - Guide)
Piya Those (Lata - Guide)
Jalte Hain Jiske Liye (Talat - Sujatha)
Kali Ghata Chaye Mora Jiya Ghabraye (Asha - Sujatha)
Soch ke ye gagan jhoome (Lata and Manna Dey - Jyoti) - in my opinion, this is one of Burman's masterpieces - but not as well known as some of his other compositions.
Poocho na kaise (Manna Dey - Meri Soorat Teri Aankhen)
Mora Gora Ang Laile (Lata - Bandini)
Jane Kya Tune Kahee (Geeta Dutt - Pyasa)
Kayee Khwaab (Rafi - Teen Deviyan)
Aise to na Dekho (Rafi - Teen Deviyan)
Megha Chaaye Aadhi Raat (Lata - Sharmilee) - semi-classical song blended with western interludes
Kaise kahen Hum (Rafi - Sharmilee) (one of the most subtle renditions of Tilang)
Jeevan ki Bagiya (Lata and Kishore - Tere Mere Sapne)
Tere Mere Milan (Lata and Kishore - Abhimaan)
Nadiya Kinare (Lata - Abhimaan)
Lena Hoga janam hame kayi kayi baar (Kishore - Prem Pujari)
Love his singing too:
Sun More Bandhu Re (Sujatha)
More Sajan Hai Us par (Bandini)
Dheere se aana Bagiyan mein (non-filmy - later sung by Kishore in Prem Pujari?)
I'm sure I'm missing a few of his other gems. Does anyone remember a dance scene in Guide, set in a village - where Waheeda does a snake dance with another woman - the music (especially the drums) is awesome.
S.R Kaushik, I believe "Ae dil mujhe bata de" is from Bhai Bhai.
Later, with more of my favourites
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Thu Feb 4 11:16:21
yeah nalini,
that piece from guide was awesome. but then, everything about the film was. say what, why don't we start discussing the music of Guide? its a great album, probably the best representative of SDB.
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SR Kaushik (@ ntws*) on: Thu Feb 4 13:49:11
A request: I think it would be better if we discussed some particular song(s) (like cram suggested: Guide's songs) as in the "Songs discussion" thread including its tune, orchestration, etc.
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Srinivas (@ pup1*) on: Thu Feb 4 16:16:10
Nalini :
Are you referring to the "Aaj phir jEnE ki Tamanna" song?
I have a very high opinion of SDB too. The tunes were rich in folk music and had apt orhestration.
Among Shankar Jaikishen's melodies, the one I like best is "Kaun hai jo Sapnon me aaya" (film ??). It is amazing that Shankar Jaikishen had such good Western Classical knowledge. Or was this song an inspiration?? :-)
My favorite HFM composer is Salil Chaudhary. He did a great job in Anand and Madhumati. "Kaheen door jab din dhal jayee" and "maine tere liye" are great songs.
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GV (@ d48-*) on: Thu Feb 4 17:30:03
I agree. GUIDE was a landmark in HFM. IMO, Kishore Kumar sang his best songs for S.D. Burman, esecially the ones before ARADHNA.
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GV (@ d36-*) on: Thu Feb 4 18:52:02
For a collection of favourite HFM oldies on RealAudio, please visit:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bridge/2225/
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nalini (@ 169.*) on: Fri Feb 5 16:06:41
Srinivas,
It is not a song, but just pure instrumental music for 4-5 minutes in a scene where Dev and Waheeda are watching a village belle dance and Waheeda gets up and joins her, entranced.
Yes - Salil Chowdhary is one of the best - the beauty of his compositions lies in the simplicity of melodies and the uncomplicated BGM - O Sajna (Parakh), Aanso Samajh ke (Chaya), Kishore's Koi Hota (Mere Apne) to name a few of my favourites.
Feeling nostalgic....
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bull (@ cach*) on: Tue Feb 9 08:20:18
Saw discussion earlier about this song, couldnt resist posting this :
waqt nE kiya
kyaa hasin sitam
tum rahE na tum
hum rahE na hum
bEkaraar dil is tarhaa milE
jis tarhaa kabhi hum judaa na thE
tum bhi khO gayE
hum bhi khO gayE
Ek raah par
chalkE dO kadam (waqt nE kiyaa...)
jaayEngE kahan sUjhtaa nahin
chal padE magar raastaa nahin
kyaa talaash hai
kuchh pataa nahin
bun rahE hain dil
khaab dam-ba-dam (waqt nE kiyaa...)
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rs (@ sung*) on: Tue Feb 9 08:46:29
kaushik,
if we are going to do something like song discussion, then i would like to discuss abt the following songs.
aap ke nazaron ne samjha pyaar ke
ye zindhagi usiki hai jho
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rs (@ sung*) on: Tue Feb 9 09:51:28
sorry wrong! that should be
shall we discuss the following songs
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SR kaushik (@ elro*) on: Tue Feb 9 10:40:24
rs: Sure, go right ahead.
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Tue Feb 9 11:21:36
people, people,
can we start with "chalo ek baar phir se", an all-time fav of mine? its simply out of this universe and would be a fine start to discussions in this thread.
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raja (@ icon*) on: Wed Feb 10 16:16:06
What about Aa- Janeja Lata M from the film Inteqaam - difficult to believe that LP created this classic.
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Ramamurthy (@ ppps*) on: Wed Feb 10 22:11:57
Nalini:
Thanks for reminding about the Lata-Manna Dey duet from the film Jyothi.It is a wonderful song like other songs in that movie.I think we should discuss real good songs which never became popular because the films flopped.
There is a very melodious duet by Rafi and Talat in a movie called Susila.Music is by C.Arjun.The song is "Gham ki andheri raat mein".Does anyone remember this song?There are two beautiful Talat-Lata duets in a little seen film called Prem Patra.Music is by Salil Chaudry.
Ramamurthy
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bull (@ cach*) on: Thu Feb 11 03:19:44
I've been looking for lyrics of this song for a long time. Never found it on any hindi film music site on the net.
There is this lovely song from the film Deedar-E-yaar which goes
tumkO dEkhaa tO samajh mein aayaa
lOg kyon but kO khudaa maantE hain
pehlE anjaan thE ab jaantE hain ...
anyone heared this?
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rs (@ sung*) on: Thu Feb 11 10:56:23
Wow! now i remeber of my Talat's favourite
jalthe hain jiske liye
........
gheeth main tere liye
wonderful piece.
Bull: dont remeber. probably if u sing or hum that song, i might
find ;-))))
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bull (@ cach*) on: Fri Feb 12 08:46:44
hmmm lovely lyrics too... anyone knows who?
dil mein rakh lEnaa isE
haathOn sE yeh chhUtE naa kahin
geet naazuk hai mEraa
sheeshE sE bhI, tUtE naa kahin
gungunaaongaa yahin geet mein tErE liyE
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Fri Feb 12 09:18:04
who else but majrooh sultanpuri? this is often rated as one of his best ever
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bull (@ cach*) on: Fri Feb 12 11:13:39
Thanks Cram
I noticed that you wanted to talk about
chalO ik baar phir sE
I remember the following beautiful lines from that song ...
woh afsaanaa jisE anjaam tak laanaa na hO mumkin
usE ik khUbsoorat mod dEkar chhOdnaa achhaa
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bull (@ cach*) on: Thu Feb 18 08:42:03
Does anyone know/remember the 1st stanza of the song Ive given below? Ive given the 2nd stanza...
is rang badalti duniyaa mein
insaan kI nIyat thIk nahin
niklaa na karO tum saj-dhaj kar
Imaan kI nIyat thIk nahin
kaandhE sE hataa lO sar apnaa
yeh pyaar muhabbat rahnE dO
kashti kO sambhaalO maujOn sE
tUfaan kI nIyat thIk nahin
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nalini (@ 169.*) on: Thu Feb 18 21:35:43
bull, I believe the 1st and 3rd stanzas go like this:
yE dil hai badaa hI divaanaa
CHEdaa na karO is paagal kO
tum sE na sharaarat kar baitE
naadaan ki nIyat thIk nahin
main kaise KHuda-haafiz keh doon
mujhko to kisI ka yakIn nahin
chup jao hamaarI aakhOn mein
bhagvaan ki nIyat thIk nahin
Pretty lyrics.
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nalini (@ 169.*) on: Thu Feb 18 21:37:09
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bull (@ cach*) on: Sat Feb 20 09:03:42
Wow! Thanks Nalini! Thanks very much indeed.
Another Rafi-for-Shammi song with lovely lyrics ...
ehsaan tEraa hOgaa mujhpar
dil chahtaa hai woh kahnE dO
mujhE tumsE muhabbat hO gayi hai
mujhE palkon kI chhaanv mein rahnE dO
ehsaan tEraa hOgaa mujhpar
tumnE mujhkO hasnaa sikhaayaa
rOnE kahO tO rO dEngE
aansoo kaa hamaarE gam na karO
woh bahtE hain tO bahnE dO ...
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Sat Feb 20 10:34:55
continuing bull's good work
chahe banaa do
chahe mitaa do
mar bhi gaye to
denge duaen
ud udke kahegi khaak sanam
ye dard-e-muhabbat sehne do
mujhe tumse mohabbat ho gayi hai
mujhe palkon ki chaaon mein rehne do
ehsaan tera hoga mujhpar...
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cram (@ 206.*) on: Sat Feb 20 10:41:52
now for the song i have been meaning to take up:
film gumraah, sahir's lyrics set to tune by ravi and sung by mahendra kapoor for sunil dutt.
chalo ek baar phir se
ajnabi ban jaaye hum dono
chalo ek baar
na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon
dilnawaazi ki
na tum mere taraf dekho chalak angaar
nazron se
na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkadaaye
meri baaton se
na zaahir ho tumhaari kashm-a-kash ka
raaz nazron se
this song simply blows me away every time i hear it. the lyrics, by the incomparable sahir, are believed to be autobiographical (the story is that he was in love with amrita pritam, but they couldn't come together. he promptly took to the bottle and when he once met her at a party, he sang these lines. of course, the story is probably apocryphal, but it could well have been true, when we take a look at the lines, which could have only written by a man who has lost in love, or one whose genius was unmatched (sahir was reputed to be both).
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bull (@ cach*) on: Sat Feb 20 12:06:10
hmmm... Wasnt Sahir also the lyricist for the wonderful songs of Guru Dutt's pyaasaa?
Apart from
yeh mahlon yeh takhtOn yeh taajOn ki duniyaa
one song which really stays in mind from that film is
jinhE naaz hai hind par woh kahaan hain?
Cram: Do you have access to lyrics of this one?
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cram (@ isdn*) on: Sun Feb 21 10:21:15
bull,
i do have the tapes. shall listen to them (been so long) and then post the lyrics.
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Raj (@ mast*) on: Fri Feb 26 11:10:57
Time to add my two bits here. It is difficult to list a set of favourites because I have quite a long list. So, I'll start with a couple of songs that are ransacking my mind now...Hemant Kumar 's classics in khamoshi
"Humne dekhi hai un aankhon ki mehak ki khushboo-haath se chooke Inhe rishton ka ilzaam na do;sirf
ehsaas hai yeh..rooh se mehsoos karo-pyar
ko pyar hi rehne do,koi naam na do"
Gulzar at his evocative best(and when you catch gulzar at his best, as Lord Ickenham would say of himself, you have got something). It is so different an approach in the love-cliche ridden HF songs. The lines
"Pyar ko pyar hi rehne do-koi naam na do"
really move me to tears.
The stanzas go:
"Pyar koi bol nahin..pyar awaaz nahin- Ek
Khamoshi hai..sunti hai ,kaha karti hai- na
Yeh bujti hai, na rukti hai-Na tehri hai kabhi.
Noor ki boond hai, sadiyon se baha karti hai"
Hemant Kumar's tune and BGM for the songs deserve mention too. The violins(?) simply tug at your heart's strings...and Lata's immaculate soulful rendition,too! It makes me cry and strangely enough I like it for that quality!
A wholesome(lyrics, music, and rendition) song.
Aaj ki raat from the same movie is another moving one. I'll be back with it.
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bull (@ satu*) on: Fri Feb 26 14:07:20
Wow! Thanks Raj for remind me again of those beautiful lyrics!
I have a doubt though. Ive always been thinking of the lines as
pyaar koi bOl nahin
pyaar awaaz nahin
Ek khamOshi hai sunti hai
kahI jaatI hai
Is it kahaa kartI hai or kahI jaatI hai
can anyone clarify?
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bull (@ satu*) on: Fri Feb 26 14:11:28
tum pukar lO is another of Hemant's unforgettable melodies from khaamOshi featuring a young Dharmendra who never shows his face through the movie.
It too has got very touching lyrics which I remember for having learnt the word muktasar, a complicated word to mean "uncomplicated".
hOntOn pE liyE huE
dil ki baat hum
jaagtE rahEngE aur
kitni raat hum
muktasar si baat hai
tumsE pyaar hai
tumhaaraa intezaar hai
tum pukaar lO
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nalini (@ 169.*) on: Fri Feb 26 15:45:40
My favourite song (not necessarily from the lyrics' point of view) from Khamoshi is "Vo shaam"
by Kishore. One of his best. I still melt every time I hear it. Will be back with the lyrics later. Don't remember all of it.
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Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmx*) on: Fri Feb 26 16:13:44
Wow! Am I glad to see this thread. Bumped into it only today.
Talking of Hemant Kumar's creations,
in the same Khamoshi ,KK's "Woh shaam" is one of his very best. Good chorus arrangement too! My most favourite composition of Hemant's is "Kuch dil ne Kahaa, Kuch bhee nahin" by Lata for "Anupama". This is Lata at her sweetest and romantic best. The tune is just a killerand overalll a very sensitive composition. The same movie had songs like Lata's "Dheere Dheere machal Aye Dil-e-Bequaraar" and his own "Yaa dil ki suno duniyawalon". Who can forget his "Kahin deep jale kahin dil" and "Mera dil ye pukare aaja" , both in "Bees saal baad".There was another super Hemant-Lata duet (of course composed by Hemant himself) which goes like "Dekho woh chaand chupke kartha hai kya ishaare".
My other hot favourite HFM composers are SDB, Roshan (my favourite melody maker), Madan Mohan, C Ramachandra, Sajjad Hussain, Anil Biswas, Salilda and RC Boral-Punkaj Mullick. Naushad Ali too was great ,but at times found his melodies lacking that extra bit of emotional touch. SJ were never my favourite composers as their base melodies except for a few like "Rasik Balma", "Dil ki girah Khol do" , "Mujh ko apne gale lagaa lo" were very weak and they followed a formula. Most of their songs would have tunes only for 2 lines. In the sense, there would no strong anu-pallavi and the stanza would be a one-liner (tunewise) and would get repeated 4 or 5 times and then loop back to the pallavi. Their tunes were a bit too simplistic for them to be ranked along with the other greats though commercially they were tops along with OP Nayyar. I am just stating my opinions and hope I have not hurt the sentiments of fellow DFers. Some SDB favourites for Kaushik & Co . (Other than Guide)
Tandi hawayen by Lata. (naujavan)
Remember this was copied in Tamil as "Konjum puraave" sung by MLV.
Chaand phir nikla (Lata) (Paying Guest)
Yehi meri manzil (Lata) (House No 44)
Thum na Jane (Lata) (sazaa)
All songs of "Tere Ghar Ke Saamne".
and many more.
I loved his love-duets , so endearing
kora kaagaz thaa (aradhana)
aaj madhosh hua jaye re (Sharmilee)
Dekho Roota na karo (tere Ghar ke saamne)
Aye maine kasam lee (Tere mere sapne)
Would like to discuss Roshan, my all-time favourite in my future postings.
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bull (@ satu*) on: Sat Feb 27 04:22:40
This is wonderful Sriram! You have added a real lot of diversity to our discussion here, great!
tum na jaane and chaand phir niklaa are one of my all time favourites of Lata. A really very very young voice of Lata in these songs is extremely enchanting and the emotion she has put into these songs is unbeleivable!
Of course, my lyrics madness wouldnt go away and I do like the lyrics of these songs too...
tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE
hum bhari duniyaa mein tanhaa hO gayE
maut bhi aati nahin
aas bhi jaati nahin
dil kO yeh kyaa hO gayaa
kOyi shai bhaathi nahin
loot kar mEraa jahan
chhup gayE hO tum kahaan
tum kahaan tum kahaan tum kahaan...
tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE
hum bhari duniyaa mein tanhaa hO gayE
Ek jaan aur laakh gam
ghut kE rah jaayE na dam
aayO tumkO dEkh lein
doobtI nazrOn sE hum
loot kar mEraa jahan
chhup gayE hO tum kahaan
tum kahaan tum kahaan tum kahaan...
tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE
hum bhari duniyaa mein tanhaa hO gayE
tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE