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Topic started by R.Srinivasan (@ ip68-0-198-105.ri.ri.cox.net) on Thu Oct 9 17:55:04 .
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People can you speak english? And can you tell me how to start a new yopic or is it not possible?
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1. ÜÃò¾¡úÅ¡÷ ¾õ ÌÕÅ¡É Ã¡Á¡Ûƒ¨Ãô §À¡ø §Å¼õ Ò¨Éó¾Ð ²ý?
2. Áýɧɡ Àì¾ý. ¿¡ò¾¢¸Å¡¾¢ÂøÄý. «í¹ÉÁ¢Õì¸, «Å÷ ̧ġòÐí¸ý «¨Å¢ø ¿¼ò¾¢Â (ºí¸¾ò¾¢ø ¿¼ó¾) Å¡¾¢ø ¾õ ¿õÀ¢ì¨¸Â¢¨É Å¡¾¢ðΠŢâ측Áø, º¢Å¿¡Áò¨¾ì ÌÈ¢ò¾ §¸Ä¢ô §Àø ÒÌó¾Ð ²ý?
3. 'º¢Å º¢Å ±ýÈ¢¼ò ¾£Å¢¨É Á¡Ùõ' ±ýÀ¡÷ º¢ò¾÷ ¾¢ÕãÄ÷ ¾õ ¾¢ÕÁó¾¢Ãò¾¢ø. «§¾ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø ÀÃÁ À¡¸Å¾Ã¡É ͸ô À¢ÃõÁâ„¢ ¾õ À¡¸Å¾ò¾¢Öõ À¡Ê¢ÕôÀРŢÂôÀøÄÅ¡? «¨¾ ±í¹Éõ ÁÈó¾¡÷ ÜÃò¾¡úÅ¡÷?
4. 'ÀÃõôÃõ† ÒÕ„õ ìÕ‰½ À¢í¸Çõ' ±ýÚ Á¨Èš츢Öõ, '±ýÚõ þÕÅÃí¸ò¾¡ø ¾¢Ã¢Å§ÃÛõ ´ÕÅý ´ÕÅý «í¸òÐÇý' ±ýÚ À¢ýÉ÷ ÓЦÀÕõ ¦À¡ö¨¸ ¬úÅ¡Õõ, '±ý¨ÈìÌ þÃñÎÕÅõ ´ýÈ¡ö þ¨ºóÐ' ±ýÚ §À¡úÅ¡Õõ §À¾õ ¸¼óÐ À¡Ê¢Õì¸, À¢Ã¢ì¸¦Å¡ñ½¡ ºì¾¢¸Ç¢ø ´ý¨È ¯Â÷ò¾¢ ´ý¨Èò ¾¡úòÐÅÐ ¾ÌÁ¡? ¾í¸ÙìÌ «Ð ²üÒ¨¼Â¾¡?
5. ̧ġòÐí¸ý ¸ñÊò¾Ð «ôÀ¢Ã¢Å¢¨É Å¡¾ò¨¾ «øÄÅ¡? '«Ã¢ÂÄ¡ø §¾Å¢Â¢ø¨Ä!' ±ýÈ «ôÀ÷ ¦ÀÕÁ¡ý §Àըè «Åý «È¢ó¾¢ÄÉ¡? ¬úóÐ §¿¡ì¸¢ø ¬Â¢Ãõ ¬ñθÙìÌ ÓýÒŨà «ò¾Ì Чń§Á (¨ºÅ ¨Å½Åò¾¢¨¼§Â) ¸¡ñ¸¢§Äý.
6. þó¾î ºõÀÅõ ¿¼ôÀ¾üÌ ²Èį̀È ¿¡ëÚ ¬ñθÙìÌ Óý þ§¾ §À¡ýȦ¾¡Õ ÝÆÄ¢ø ¿¢¸úó¾Åü¨È ¿¢¨Éçðθ¢§Èý.
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þ¨ÈÅý-¦¿È¢ôÀÊ ¬¨½§ÂüÚ «¨ÉòÐĨ¸Ôõ ¸¡ìÌõ ¸¼¨ÁôÀ½¢ ¦¸¡ñ¼Å÷¸§Ç §¾Å÷¸û ±Ûõ ÌÚ-þ¨ÈÅ÷¸û. «ñ¼ò¾¢ý þÂì¸ò¨¾ ¿¢÷Ÿ¢ôÀ¾¢Öõ (Decentralised management of the Conduct & Operation of Universe) ¯ÄÌ Å¡Æò §¾¨ÅÂ¡É ¸¡üÚ, ¦¿ÕôÒ, ¿£÷, ¿¢Äõ... §À¡ýÈ þÂü¨¸-¦¿È¢î ¦ºÂøÀ¡Î¸¨ÇÔõ ¸ñ¸¡½¢ôÀÐõ (Monitoring the functions of Nature) «Å÷¸ÇÐ Ó츢ÂÁ¡É À½¢Â¡Ìõ. §ÁÖõ ®§ÃØ À¾¢É¡ýÌ ¯Ä̸ǢÖõ Å¡ú ¯Â¢Ã¢Éí¸û ´ù¦Å¡ÕÅÕìÌõ ¿¢÷½Â¢ì¸ôÀð¼ Å¢¾¢ôÀÊ ¦ºÂøÀÎòÐÅÐõ «ó¾ ÓôÀòÐ ãýÚ §¸¡Ê §¾Å÷¸Ç¢ý ¸¼¨Á¡õ.
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An article on Thirukkural & Thiruvalluvar:
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2005/03/11/s...1102210300.htm
ஆங்கிலத்தைத்தவிர, பிற மொழிகளில் திருக்குறளை மின்வலையில் காண்பது மிக அரிது. விரைவில் குறளை 10 மொழியாக்கங்களில் (French, Russian, Arabic, Hindi, Bengali, Malayalam, Gujarati, Kannada, Telugu & Punjabi) மின்வலையில் காணலாம். ஏற்கனவே ரஸ்ஸியன், ப்ரெஞ்சு, இந்தி, மலயாளம் மொழிகளில் டைப் அடித்துவிட்டேன்.
As far as I know, only Russian translation is available in full on the net. Please let me know if you come across Kural translation in any other language.
'' Ulaga manidarin manathinilae marakka onna vedham"- The one sacred / holy book that should not be forgotten by world human beings is Thirukkural.
f.s.gandhi
What is knowledge ? ' Arivu enbathu Yathu ?'
What Thiruvalluvar says ?
Can anybody quote from KURAL ?
I think noone in the world exactly pointed out this other than Thirukkural.
Dear friends think it over and tell your views.
f.s.gandhi
Dear friends,
Valluvar says, '' Muyarchi mei varuthak kooli tharum'' - means trying will make you success.
In another kural valluvar says,'' Uzhil peruvali yaavula''- means nothing can be above destiny or fate.
It seems the above kurals are in contradictory in their absolute sense.
When muyarchi is superior in first kural destiny is superior in another kural.
Can anyone explain what valluvar means to say to the masses ?
Kindly think it over.
f.s.gandhi
Dear friends,
I hope whoever 've seen my previous queries regarding 'valluvam' shall undergo brainstorming in this session.
I welcome your views regarding that.
Meanwhile I pose you the important aspect nowadays in society for which 'Sennappothar' gave solution.
World people always have spritual and religious associations throughout their life. In very much eager to know the life secrets and its occultism they always believe holy things which can not be explained through scientific analysis but can be supported by scientific results / facts. People tend to become more fond of religiousity all over the world.
There are different religions which have their own dress codes and facial modifications.
They have their own theory to support these codes.
Valluvar talks about these codes in his kural. Certainly in his time also these codes existed. Can we define common code for all them ? What valluvar says ? Can anybody quote from Thiruvalluvar ?
Dear friends think it over.
f.s.gandhi
Dear friends, :)
I hope that You are all thinking over my earlier messages in this thread.
Take up thirukkural,read and try to infer the kurals.
Now I pose you one more contradiction in kural.
'Inna chaitharai oruththal - Nannayam chaithuvidal' - means when anybody harms you do good to him.
On the other hand valluvar says,' Than valiyum,Thunaivaliyum, Matran valiyum Thookkich chayal- an advice to the man that when you think about your victory think about your ability,your brethren or relations or your persons' ability, enemy's ability and his persons' ability before attacking your enemy.
In one kural Maathanupanki says,'Dont attack'- In another he says, 'Attack but carefully'.
It seems to be contradictory. Is it not ?
Think over my friends. Express your views. :lol:
f.s.gandhi
Dear Mr. F.S. Gandhi,
Thank you very much for raising wise points of debate in a highly worthy sense of Human- values... as inherent in our Great immortal Thirukkuralh
At the same time...I am sorry you have FORCIBLY converted this TAMIL-THREAD... especially under Tamil-Lterature Section... (I initiated this Thread in Tamil... and further am conducting so... all along since the past about 3 years)
While I realise your difficulty in posting Tamilo-Fonts... but is it so UNSURMOUNTABLE... For your information... I too had the same difficulty...and I LEARNT IT ONLY AFTER JOINING THIS TAMIL- FORUM.
if you have a Will to NURTURE TAMIL-LANGUAGE... truly conforming to the Scope of this Forum
.... You will not find it IMPOSSIBLE... may be Difficult..
I radically concur with Mahakavi Bharathi..."Why Tamilians should converse and correspond in a Foreign Language.... when they know Tamil also well?... a BEAUTIFUL RICH LANGUAGE... deserving to be protected? If this Trend is allowed to persist... all Tamilian Children will FORGET AND REJECT TAMIL... as an Unworthy Cheap- Language....
... culminating in making Tamil another DEAD-LANGUAGE?
I have got a lot to say in reply to you ... in an interesting manner to all conveying the DEEP true- spirit hidden behind Thirukkuralh.
But I will come out ONLY AFTER YOU RESUME TAMIL-POSTINGS in line with this Thread- principle....
Sorry... I hope you will not mistake me.... When there is a WILL there is a WAY.!!
Dear Thiru Sudhaama, :!:
I beg your pardon for my inability to write in tamil. :)
Kindly give me some (more) time to learn tamil typing. :)
I find one positive element in writing in English in these threads which may induce you to get angry towards me.
We have enough literature stuff in tamil literature. Here we are reproducing it. That's all.
The thing is we have not sufficiently popularize these literature.
Modern tamils who are residing out of tamilnadu can be able to know about tamil only through these kind of media like computer.
Already tamils have neglected tamil in higher studies and now reached their horizon out of tamil usage.
Hence again if we force them to learn tamil they will hesitate.
Instead if we tell them the significance of tamil through common language there is a chance of tamil learning increase.
Veeramamunivar, Dr.Galduwell learnt tamil in this way.
Rabindaranath Tagore got accredition by noble prize only after he translated his verses from Bengali to English.
My writing in these threads are 'theme' oriented.
Your tamil writing is flawless,rhythemic,unique,versatile and very much attactive in nature.
We may strike a balance. I use to dig something.
You please give your views in beautiful tamil.
We make this arrangement till I learn tamil typing.
Convinced ? :)
Kindly bear this and continue with your notions :!:
f.s.gandhi
Tirukural stands as a showpiece of Human Civilisation and teaches the 21st Century Comman Era man, what a Secular Literature is.
Friends I WANT you to analyse the dating of Tiruvalluvar.
Certain Scholars dated it to BCE8000, G.U.Pope to 800C.E. and Vaiayapuri Pillai dated to 7th Cen, and with Manimekhalai dated around 200CE, Majority dates Tirukural to 100CE.
Still Scholarly Disucssion continues.
Readers must look this aspect
Dear Thiru Solomon, :)
Kinldy under this column do not talk about history. :) Thiru Sudhaama who intitiated this topic will get angry. :!: This is the thread to talk about thirukkrual verses and their meaning. Kindly discuss history in relevant column.
Anyway, Thirukkural - 100 CE carbon dating proof is there. That is correct.
We need not talk about Thiru Vaiyapuripillai’s theory. He neither analysed the pattern of old poetry nor the time specified in the literary works. His views are vague and nothing seems to be correct in interpretation. :(
For example, There are several ‘Avvaiyars’ from 0CE to 1000 CE. He interprets that there is one ‘Avvaiyar’ which proved wrong in history. :o
G.U.Pope did translated works and it seems that he did not analyse historic perspective of tamil poetry. :(
f.s.gandhi
Hai-Madan, noramlly answers questions and lot of questions on Science and History are answered and looked by Readers as well Researched.
Latest Issue has a question by reader about using Tiruvalluvar Era- instead of using BC and AD i.e., KI.PI & KI.MU.
And Madan answers that all the tradtions on Tiruvalluvar are Pelas-lies.
Friends- the Truths are:
a. The dating method of BC/AD is dropped morethan 50 years back, and several Bibles I have and All encyclopedias use only BCE AND CE- i.e, Before Common Era and Common Era.They can be Va.Mu. and Va.Ka. referrting Varalarru Kalam and Varalarru Mundaya Kalam.
b. The detail on Jesus Christ are highly unreliable and date and year of his birth and death are not known.
Gospel of Matthew- Mary- Wife of Joseph, Son of Jacob from Bethleham was the mother of Jesus and this Jesus is 41st Generation from Abraham.
Luke' Gospel tells ; Mary-Wife of Joseph, Son OF Heli from Nazareth was the mother of Jesus; and this Jesus is 57th Generation from Abraham.
Matthew gives a date of BCE 6 OR 7 as birth Year,
Luke gives a date of CE 8 as Brith Year.
But the Genelogies of 16 Generations makes them live 400 years apart.
c. None of the sources of Jesus Life and Teaching are written by any Contemporary Eye Witnesses- Britanica Encycopedia.
Tiruvalluvar as per majority Scholars is dated to 100 BCE OR Earlier, for example Devaneya Pavanar dates him to 2nd Century BCE or Earilier. Certain Scholars fixed a rough date of 31BCE as Birth Year and this Tiruvalluvar Saga-era is used by many Tamil groups.
VIKATAN- OR ANY Leading Magazines should COMMENTS ON Tiruvalluvar must be done carefully, the missionaries like CALDwell and G.U.Pope dated him to 8th Cen, CE and this Wrong Chronology made Dr.Vaiapuri to date Tiruvalluvar to 700 CE. Later using Manimekhalai Schloars in middle of 20th Cen dated Tirukural to 100CE.
Mylapur SANthome Church Archbishop Arulappa funded a Major Project, a twin project:
1. A Re-interpretation of Tirukural as a Christian book by mis-reading the Tirukural and Manipulating Bible Verses was done and said that Tiruvalluvar was given Bible by Thomas the Apostle of Jesus who came to Mylapur.- One Dr.M.Deivanayagam got P.hd. from Tamil Christian Dept. funded by ArchBishop- saying Tiruvalluvar was inspired by Thomas and Saiva Siddhantha Literuature is from the inspiration from Bible.
2. Archbishop funded on Acharya Paul- around 15 lakhs in 70s, took him to Vatican, Europe and America and Tried to Fabricate Manuskripts of Tiruvalluvar-Thoma Connection. This ended in Court Case and That Paul was allowed to retain the House he bought from Church Money- by a out of court Settlement.
The Pity is we donot have any evidence of ANY Thomas coming to India, even a person of that name is doubted my Modern Biblical Scholars.
Refer
www.hamsa.org
Vikatan must have been responsible, Stories on Jesus were more Doubtful than that of Tiruvalluvar
MosesMohammedSolomon
Dear Thiru Solomon, :)
The claim by various religious groups that Thirukkural belonging to them itself specifies that Thirukkural is common to all in the world.
Jains, saivas and Vedhics also claim that Thirukkural is belonging to them.
I want to bring to your notice that the 'flood story' of Nova in Bible specifies the 'Big KADALKOL (tsunami)' happened during prehistoric period. Nova escaped through 'Marakkalam' (KATTUMARAM) to Asia minor.
Now Turky's tribes stories reveal that they came from south probably from south India.
Language connotations proves that. I have earlier talked about this in separate thread.
Anyway let us wind up this discussion here & continue under relevant topic. :!:
Don't you see Thiru Sudhaama comes with great Stick ? :lol:
f.s.gandhi
Hahahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by F.S.Gandhi vandayar
Dear friends, :)
Nowadays people seem to be more interested in amassing money. They don’t want to have some ethics in accumulating the money.
‘Survivial of the fittest’ is their basic rule.
World people also use ‘Diplomacy’ in dealings and the sole pupose is overruling / acquiring money / power through even unethical means.
Amassing money is thought to be the happiness attaining process of most people.
Whereas the monks of various religions stress the need to abandon money in order to have happiness.
On the other hand without money untold sufferings of poor men prevails everywhere.
How can we come out this confusion state ? We should have money at the same time we should have happiness.
Money – happiness combination is focused as enemy to enemy combination and we will not have happy by this combination.
Dear friends, :!: Try to explore from ‘Thirukkural’
Valluvar should have some plan for this. :!:
f.s.gandhi
I love Kural because, it teaches big teachings in just 7 words.
Piravip Perungadal Ninduvar......
WhAT A WONDERFUL Kural.
Man' life is less than 80 years on average, and Trees and Tortoise and Elephants live longer. And Mountains and Seas keep Growing for Milleniums.
Every Person born crooses his Life-time and dies, and certainly Valluvar does not call this as Ocean, and Pirave- cannot mean your Generations- such as Children, GrandChildren and GreatGrand Children. Every Soul looses its body when a Man dies, but the soul gets another body, MaruPiravi, and Piravi continues again and again- As all waters reach Ocean, all Living born again and again.
To get away from this Ocean of Births, only way to get away is to ged to the feet of the God.
Longlive Kural and let us spread it.
MosesMohammedSolomon
PS: FSG -Can you kndly link me to the Carbon14 datings for Tiruvalluvar and its interesting.
Dear Thiru Solomon, :)
Samples of carbon dated palm leaves can be got from 'Saraswathi mahal libruary' in Thanjavoor. It carried out during 19 th century British rule in India.
Regarding 'thirukkural' -Piravi -I want to add some more things.
'Azhu pirappum Aamappu udaiththu' - clearly specifies 7 birth of man to the earth.
Hence this 'piravi' is not continuous uncounted way. 7 births are defined not only in inthu saiva Akamams but also in Vedhic as well as in other Inthu upanishaths.
This is called as 'karmam / karma' in Inthu belief and followed in tamil nadi astrology written by Akaththiyar from time immemorial.
7 is a holy no. in occultic numerology. There should be 7 continents in world.
There should be 7 oceans in earth.
There should be 7 wonders in world.
Buththar was born on 25th. Adding 5+2=7. Jesus and Mohammed were born on 25th. Sankarar, Maththuvar, Ramanujar Who also were born in this 25th.(Mummoorthikal of Inthu religion)
The flower 'Thaamarai' which has seven leaves in front is the place where Buththar / saraswathi / lakshmi cult is always made as seated.
7 is holy no in Bible. 7 days, 7 influencing planets are used for determining one's astrological calculations.
Three major religions of today which were influenced by ancient belief have their theories in the following way.
1.God is one.
2. Other great men will be born in the earth as 'Thoothuvar' / Avathaar to perish when Atharma prevails.
3.Belief in rebirth.
Mr. 'Chero' a famous England professor proved the rebirth by analysing the history of France kings. 14th Louie was reborn after 700 years and the happenings / important incident matches with the 18th century louie and the 11 the century 14th louie.
f.s.gandhi
TIRUKURAL TALKS ABOUT Pirappu and Kudi, repeatedly , and its the core of Tirukural.
He further says, Desire is the route of births, i.e. Desire forces you to sin, and sins make you to born again.
Valluvar further adds, One should Desire, if at all for - Piravamai, all other things would follow.
EluPirappu, though may denote 7 in the first isght, it must be understood as Elumpothellam Pirappu, Unless you are Sinless and catch the feet of Divinity you cannot attain it.
MosesMohammedSolomon
Dear Friends, :)
I earlier asked What valluvar says about 'Arivu'.
Let us look into that.
Arivu is defined as knowing all about world , subject , science etc. By knowing something itself will make ‘arivu’ ?
Valluvar also says by having arivu you will get anything in life.
A thief seems to be having more ‘Arivu’ than ordinary man.
A smart politician who amass wealth seems to be having more knowledge than ordinary person.
A leading country like America which created arms race in the world seems to be having more Knowledge.
A developing country like India which has lot of priests seems to be having more knowledge.
A diplomatic mission which induces mutual benefits between any two countries eventhough they adapt certain form of treacherous attitude seems to be having more knowledge.
Eventually ‘survival of the fittest’ / More knowledge knowing and suppressing other seems to be more smart / knowledged and fittable to live.
But what valluvar says regarding knowledge is wonderful.
He didn’t quantify the knowledge. He talks not only for human beings but also ordinary other organisms in the world.
Valluvar inadvertently poses that having knowing the thing only is not a knowledge.
But how it is being used in the world is knowledge. Even if you get small knowledge of something in world it must be fruitful to the society and the whole world.
In his ten verses under “Ariudamai” Athikaram 9 talk about Knowledge proportions /perspectives and in one kural He defined ‘what is knowledge ?.
‘Chentra edaththaal selavida THEETHU oriee-
NANTRIN PAL ueppathu ARIVU.
In that he says without ‘THEETHU’ which gives ‘NANTRU’ is knowledge irrespective of its quantity or quality.
Let us follow what valluvar says.
Readers are welcome to bring out explanations for other equeries in this thread.
f.s.gandhi
Let us protect Thirukkural unpolluted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mod
Tiruvalluvar gives us Duties of Family Man as follows:
ThenPulathar Theivam Virunthu Okkal Than- This order gives us a lot of information.
ThenPulathar- refers Irantha Munnor- Then refered as The Direction of Yaman, i.e., Pithrukal- Even today Orthodex Tamils do not goto Temples for Oneyear if any Close Relatives Die, and Every Month First day and on NewMoon Day They give Tharpanams to Pithrukal, Annual Tharpanam on Mahalaya Amavasai and Divasams are practiced by all Tamils. Next To Pithrukal only is God, then Unknown Virunthinar, Then Family, then self is the order a Family man has to spend his Time Money and Effort.
MosesMohammedSolomon
'Then pulaththar' specifies the ancestors who died in 'KadalKol' happened in the south of Kumari.
That is why tamil pray standing in the direction of south.
When tamils wanted to die they sit in north direction.
Yaman was introduced in Vaishnava puranas and that was not specified by valluvar. Infact yaman direction is north.
As all religion claims Thirukkural is belonging to them I think Vaishnavas also believe in that.
f.s.gandhi