Stranger,
I am seeing my idea already work in action, thanks to you.
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Stranger,
I am seeing my idea already work in action, thanks to you.
Take it easy, ganesh! After all, we all will be proud when India becomes a super power no matter which side we stand now! 8)
Let me diffuse some presumptions. I am not a big admirer of Shankar and he would not rate in my TOP 10 Indian filmmakers list. In fact I find some of his movies extremely cheesy. If you take Jeans, just in the first 20 minutes it is ridiculous with how he shows America to our makal.Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger
Having said that, I think in Anniyan he atleast made more valid points than other movies. The more important part was that those points are unique in such a way that they can be adhered. I do not expect all of us to be saints one day but we can "marginally" improve in any way.
If you think it is wrong to show regard to common civil laws that he shows in Anniyan are so easily taken for granted then I am not sure how I can express further.
Finally, just wanted to say that the discussions here have been fantastic. The spike in the posts recently is interesting. I was just back from a business trip and was surprised. Though the coming weeks are gonna be brutal for me I will manifest myself as much as I can ;)
Ok since sum members in this thread insisted tat we try & speak sumthin +ve abt India instead of always poiting out -ve points, thot I'll state atleast one +ve fact for a change! :wink:
Taking the eg. of 2 cities in AP where I've been living- Hyderabad & now Vizag, u'll find tat in the local State Transport buses, there is a considerable amount of consideration given to lady passengers.....the 1st 6 rows of seats (3 on either side) in the buses r reserved for ladies & moreover even the entry/exit for them is separate from men (they enter/exit the bus at the front doorway, men from the one at the rear end)......ne men who try to enter/exit the bus via the ladies' doorway r usually stopped by the conductor.....also men aren't allowed to stand in the aisle between the rows of seats reserved for ladies.......(of course this means sum of them footboard/make the bus more crowded at the rear!)
A good system, IMHO worth implementing in buses in all Indian cities.......jus one good thing I find abt AP State trans. Buses, as they r hardly worth appreciating in most other aspects (the drivers, for eg. must still learn to always stop precisely at the bus stops, not 5-10 feet ahead! :evil: )
Atleast ladies needn't normally face a harrowing time from bad/lecherous men, as they'd normally be likely to face in crowded buses where they might seldom be in a position to retaliate! :x I'm not sure how many other cities this sytem exists........I'm told tat even in Madras buses there r separate seats for ladies but having seen them, it didn't appear tat way to me.....? :?
Also a friend of mine from Calcutta told me tat even there (being a relatively conservative city w/ a trad. look), girls/women jus can't travel alone in a bus!
http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/jul/16ninan.htm
India rocks.....Indian economy rulz.... :D
Maddy,Quote:
Originally Posted by MADDY
Are you talking about the India in Planet Earth? Or is it in Xanadu?
Try telling this to the majority of the population who are not privileged enough to know the things you are talking about, let alone experience them. And BTW, please understand that "economy" is not only for you and me but for the people ploughing the fields, wage labourers, small scale industrialists, road-workers, construction workers, tribal people, and all such people whose voice we cannot hear in the media or in discussion forums like this on the Internet
andavan, see according to you economy is good for me atleast...it was not so in the past......even middle-class ppl. used to suffer.....so now economy is good for us and it'll take some time to reach all those underpriviliged ppl. also....wait sir......u cant say everything is wrong here......
I remember movies like "varumaiyin niram sigappu...". Such movies are almost non existent now. What does this mean? Now a days you have only rainbow remo singing in a ramp walk....
i cant understand 1 more thing y u guys scream abt those 40% behind the poverty line , y not think abt 60% who r above the poverty line......i'm not saying that those 40% shuld be forgotten but y r u crying so much for them and forgetting the acheivements of the other 60%......strange yaar, the ways u guys find to criticise India.....
Becos Sir,you have to be sensitive to their aspirations.Just think a guy from among the 40% sees this discussion,what will run in his mind?That his countrymen are robots who are doing very well for themselves&are not bothered about what happens to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MADDY
Again&Again,you guys are missing the point.It's not about criticising,it's about telling ourselves-"don't become complacent,there is still a lot more to be done"
Inequality breeds jealousy which in turn leads to crime.Pls note I am NOT comparing with any other nation as every country has a section of ppl who are not doing well for themselves financially.The key is to reduce the percentages&over a loooooooong period of time,everyone's standard of living can be raised atleast to decent,acceptable levels.
And BTW, its worse than the 60-40 figure you quote
see it takes time for all round development....now that a part of India is developed, it is the duty of the developed India to help the needy and help govt in changing the situation.......
cinefan, if social inequalities r the reason for crimes then y r there r so many school-shootout cases in US( ideal country according to u guys)???everybody and everything cannot be perfect okkkk??? if u can find 1 fault with India i can find 2-3 within other countries........
prosperity will prevail within few years so give this country a few more time....see, i'm not that typical vehement guy refusing to accept ur opinions but actally we r saying the same thing.....u guys r saying the glass is half empty and i'm saying glass is half full....
Excuse me,Quote:
Originally Posted by MADDY
When did I ever tell US is my idea of a perfect country :o
Re-read my posts again,I repepatedly stress that there is no need to compare ourselves with any other country.We are intelligent enough to understand our problems,it's just that we seem to lack the will&unity to tackle them.
Rite again Cinefan! :wink: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cinefan
Its true tat the middle class today- leave alone the upper class- seldom spares a thot to wat life means to the ppl. living below the BPL (Below Poverty Line).
Also for eg. when the media reports tat no. of ppl. below BPL has been reduced to around 35%, the govt. reports insist tat its only 29% comp'd to the 60% in the mid '50s.......the fact is tat their no. is decreasing very slowly indeed! :(
Whether we see such ppl. in reality in our daily lives or on sum foreign documentary on TV, most of us tend to feel ashamed......or even abashed at the thot tat many of those foreigners from Nat. Geo/ Discovery channel etc. wud see us as citizens of the same country as these wretched ppl.......we usually forget whoz really responsible for them being like this......
From wat I read in the book "The great Indian dream" by Arindam Chaudhry, 50 million tonnes of food grain is said to be locked up & rotting in the warehouses of Food Corpn. of India! enuff to feed all the 350 mil. below BPL for the next 2-3 years.......!
Also stated tat if, in fact, all the food grain sacks lying unused in our warehouses were to be packed one after another , they wud be enuff to make a path to the moon & back! :shock:
Yet we face so many mils. of starving Indians in our country.......!
cinefan, by referrring "u guys", i mean all those who think India is doing bad not just u....okkk :D
Lord, even i have read that book, infact it is a very shameful situation but hope after having good PM's for 10 yrs(A.B.Vajpayee & Manmohan Singh), such things wont happen again in India.......okkk guys i'll jot down the problems that i feel India is currently facing......pls reply with ur comments and points that u feel is sinking India.......if there is any economist/HR graduate here, then he can provide a mock-solution for them...
1.Ill-literacy & child labour
2.Population ( which i think is a by-product of ill-literacy)
3.Lop sidedness of economy (ex: compare ambani and the beggar on the street...this shuld go)
4.Goverenment officials
wat say guys???
Hey MADDY welcome to the "willing to accept" gang :lol: just joking.Quote:
Originally Posted by MADDY
Yup you have put the major problems we r facing today beautifully in a nutshell.
But I do think that all are problems are mainly due to population.
Its bcoz of our population ,that there are people below the poverty line..due to which there is illiteracy which in turn gives rise to child labour,job scarcity,etc
Its also due to the population that there is so much competition ,which in turn gives rise to corruption etc etc.
If we manage to reduce our population rate then I am sure we will bring down our other problems too.What do you guys think?
wow!!!!!!!!
ssanjinika found a way to please everybody and get away from the problem.
Yeah, let us blame it on the population for everything as ss' says!
BTW, what is the population density in Japan?! They seem to have quite a lot of people in few small islands. Are they better or worse than us? :roll:
Why blame population for everything? Isn't it good to have more human resources, after all ? Some countries are worried about their declining human resources. I am not saying we shouldn't control population. Why not just make use of the highly availble "man/woman power" and stop complaning about the "existing population"?
Yup, tick mark for all of em..... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by MADDY
The last 2 esp. r the most harrowing problems we r currently facing......when I was studying my Dip. in biz. admin. in Sing., there was this lecturer of mine, a half-Chinese half-Indian, who was apparently very proud of the fact tat in Sing. the social gap between rich & poor isn't tat wide.......(and yea I've seen even beggars/vagabonds there looking fully clad & like they can eat atleast a square meal a day)......he always took delight in scoffing at India, Indonesia etc. in this regard....... :evil:
IMO, this lop-sidedness exists partly bcos of increasing popularity of privatisation/free market system where individual gains connected w/ this system r more.....therefore those who r intimately associated w/ this sytem r likely to gain more in less time........plus increasing consumerism where its become a rat-race to keep up w/ those who can afford a certain sumthin.......unlike b4 where the main emphasis was on basic necessities......
IMHO, another reason I mentioned earlier- ppl. in certain professions like IT & MBAs can end up w/ well-paying jobs (& thus seem to be the get-rich-quick types) whereas ppl. in various other professions like Arts etc. cannot hope for decent-paying jobs- if at all they can get jobs! even if they take up such subjects purely out of their own interest.........so today the word 'IT prof.' or 'MBA' has become a synonym for a successful, capable and respectable person in society! They r the guys who r picked by girls' fathers for marriage alliances.....!
So, I repeat tat this syndrome has to go........'cos every person has a right to get a decent job in watever field he/she in int'd in.......all shudn't be forced to study only IT/software or MBA jus bcos hi-paid jobs r available in those......hence a successful economy is only where ppl. of ne & every profession can afford to get jobs/respect in society........it is so in most of the developed countries......y can't it happen in ours??
Unftly a high populn. doesn't nec. promise a high availability of quality manpower.......only a certain no. can be fit to serve as human resource.....not to mention tat our country is one of those suffering from the largest amount of 'brain-drain', i.e, losing many skilled workers to countries tat r already developed.........eg. (again quoted from the book I mentioned) while we hav one Indian doctor for every 2400 Indians we hav 1 Ind. doctor serving 1325 Americans in the US! And the list has today extended to not just doctors or IT ppl. but even school teachers! :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by ganesh79
Therefore I strongly feel tat to make use of our potential human resources, we must first think of ways to stop the brain-drain......
I needn't mention tat r various hurdles created by the gov.t as well as individuals in employment, viz. reservations, job availability based on influence/bribery etc. which need to go.......these r the actual hurdles even more than the high populn. as even in our high populn., 30% r still illeterate......so once a way is paved for equal employment oppurtunities, even the cut-throat competition level wud come down, thus ensuring the 70% of educated ppl. fair oppurtunities.......
Also ensure better technologies tat wud tempt the highly skilled profs. to stay back in India........esp. in Medical field.......while the state of Govt. hospitals is nowhere upto matching current day medical standards, private hospitals offer better treatment/facilites only at hi-rates tat r not reachable to the avg. masses.......so the Govt. shud not hesitate to spend on developing the infrastructure of Govt. hospitals......such tat most if not all Ind. docs. shud be encouraged to serve in them rather than looking for greener pastures in the UK etc........!
Once there were few who criticized communisim. Now I see cirticisms against privitazation/capitalism. We have to take one stand. Do not complain that IT/MBA's get more jobs. In every country people get jobs only in the industry that is hot. In the US, I have seem many college graduates doing clerical jobs not related to their degree major. Now there is this rage called quixtar or quickstar (whatever it is called) in US. I know of even some bright PhDs giving up their research and venturing into it. Money and interests never go together. It is the rule of this world, not India.
If you feel IT is the India's trouble, well, then let's get rid of it. Actors and actresses are paid like in hell. Do you worry about it? After all, its due to IT that India got a global attention. In fact, investment in IT is the wisest thing to do as it just needs only man/brain power and not any advanced infrastructure, like those warranted by an automobile or air craft industry.
Ganesh,
Kindly don't misunderstand.....I'm certianly not against IT or feel tat it shud be got rid of or nething........wat I'm saying is tat it shud not be stereotyped as a 'saviour' profession for every person whoz looking for a job.....
May be good if it is given a boost by the govt.......tats fine........but the govt. is concentrating on projecting mainly this sector as an employment oasis, whereas there r so many Arts/Commerce grads. who study the subjects tat they r int'd in & it is quite poss' for them to hav jobs & come up in these fields but there is little/no hope for them afa employment in our ccountry is concerned......which is one reason y today there r so many- esp. in the south- who happen to study engg. after +2.......its not as if each & every one of them desired to study engg......infact sum of my friends who took it up tell me they did so even tho they found it tough mainly bcos they aren't promised a bright future on graduating in ne 'simple' course viz. Arts.......
And altho IT maybe a hot industry even in developed nations, its certainly not given the kind of hype tat its given by ppl. in our country 'cos there, ppl. hav chances to prosper in other professions as well (not talking abt salaries here)......I've lived in a 'developed' foreign country (Sing.) recently & I've noticed tat every person there has the oppurtunity to live a decent, comfortable life whether hez an IT whiz or a biz. executive or a lecturer in political science/history.........
So this shud be the situation even in our country........tats my point.....
It is very tough for the government of a developing country to work for everyone's interest. It is easy for everyone to work for the goverment's interest. There is no harm in working in IT sector, if you don't find an alternate employement . After all, they won't ask to sleep the floors in an IT company. They offer good life style and are open to recruit anyone. And the job is also quite challenging and not run-of-the-mill. Even Albert Einstein couldn't find a job of his own and worked as patent clerk. However, I do have some other concerns about IT sectors. It is a lot dependent on foreign investments. We should build our own indgineous IT companies, rather than being outsourcing points.
I bet Shankar paid income tax for every penny he got from oscar! He is such a patriot, man! :rotfl:
Films like these should be banned on charges of sedition! The drunkard, drug addict filmmakers are criticizing you and me, and licking some foreign strangers. Shankar belongs to those "group" of "Indians" who do no want to see India develop. That is the reason for anti-Indian sentiments in all his movies. In none of his movies he constructively criticized India. In Gentleman he criticized the reservation policy and in Indian he hailed the british rule. In mudhalvan he ridiculed our constitution. He made it a joke. And in Jeans, he sucks the foriegners. Boys was the only movie that is an exception. I hope he just sticks to making sex movies. Atleast a sexual awarness would be created!
Just thot of pasting an excerpt from a speech by our President tat was made at Hyderabad......I daresay similar to wat Shankar (must hav) tried to point out in Anniyan.......? :wink: :D
Altho there were sum points in the speech I personally don't agree w/, I found these lines very worthy of being posted here as I find them really thot-provoking.......
".......Like lazy cowards hounded by our fears we run to America to bask in their glory and praise their system. When the job situation in the US becomes insecure we run to England. When England experiences unemployment, we take the next flight out to the Gulf. When the Gulf is war-struck, we demand to be rescued and brought home by the Indian government.
Everybody is out to abuse and rape the country. Nobody thinks of feeding the system. Our conscience is mortgaged to money........"
Cudn't hav found it better said, no doubt! But how effective it wud've been in changing the attitude of our ppl. (atleast in Hyd. where the speech was made) is still a qsn. mark...... :(
People do not like "sujatha" for various reasons. I was annoyed by his "cheap dialogues" in Boys. He went into several people's "crap-list" due to that. He has made several sweeping statements which were proved to be wrong. He even justified the unjustifiable "punks" (boys) as if he came up with something great!
Anyway, I think verbally flipping finger on someone (jeez! who is not around here) in the forum is also considered taboo, though u may consider that as a "polite attitude"! 8)
DIGRESSION
Well, I am certainly not one of them. BOYS is certainly not for family viewing; and if at all there is a fault, it is awarding the movie a U certificate.Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger
Other than that, it was a good experiment on coming-of-age movie. If 70+ Vaali can write songs for teenagers, on the other end we have Sujatha, who captured the thoughts and feelings of youngsters effectively.
END DIGRESSION
Sujatha may hav boldly brought to light the attitudes of today's youth in his dialogues but all in all, I don't see ne message BOYS had given out....... :?
It all ultimately ended up as just another movie w/ the usual flashy songs & 'masala' scenes (sum of which Shankar might've included w/ the intention of projecting reailty as it is but I don't think it'd created ne awareness of ne kind.......just sumthing more to be goggled at by the erotica-craving members of the audiences)......the rest of the movie went like most other rich gal-luvs-poor guy-run away together- themes........so in other words, IMHO, it was a film tat was a sheer waste of reel & didn't seem to serve ne purpose at all.....! :evil:
please dont turn this thread into a caste discussion!
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/aug/01guest.htm
A very relevant article to the topic,MADDY-your comments please.
In fact being a long time resident of Bangalore,most of the thoughts expressed in the article apply to this city as well.
Very relevant articles on the povert situstion in india.
Point
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/apr/15dilip.htm
Counterpoint
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/may/02guest1.htm
Btw,
lordstanher can you post the link to the sppech made by president.
Typos in the line..should read
Very relevant articles on the poverty situation in india.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayagan
i think the purpose it fulfilled, just like movies are suppose to, is to entertain us while we are watching the film and make us forget our problems etc.it did that.if all movies served a purpose as in carried a message...i dont think the movie industry would be as big as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordstanher
Um, sorry Nayagan, but I found tat speech not in a link/site but in the msgs. of my old school group! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nayagan
Tat can be accessed only by the group members! So I'll copy & paste the full speech here later.......hving sum trouble w/ our net connec. now! :(
http://presidentofindia.nic.in/
The link shown should have all the speeches by President Kalam.