Happiness is just goo goo and ga ga nothing more nothing less... just enjoy :lol:
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Happiness is just goo goo and ga ga nothing more nothing less... just enjoy :lol:
Then, what do you think of the Mogul and British invasions of India?Quote:
Originally Posted by bulb_mani
Are you trying to imply that the British and Moghuls were happier as a result of the invasion? In that case, we must consider the motivations for the invasions in the first place. The primary motivation you will agree was material gain - e.g. natural resources, precious metals, etc. But I question the value of this material gain, especially since (I) the Moghuls no longer exist, and (II) the British have lost most of their empire. That is my view of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohit
No matter what your views (conceptions) are about happiness; they came to gain happiness of their conceptions. Most (with some intellect) would do the same. Don't you understand that?Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS
It is only the false pursuit of happiness that leads to suffering. In this case, the intellect fails to properly discriminate between the various conflicting conceptions of happiness. This is essentially a reductionist process. When one designs a bridge, for example, it is unlikely he will choose plastic as the material of choice. He also realizes the bridge will span a finite length. Even though, theorectically, he can easily concieve of a plastic bridge that will go on forever. Similarly, most people, whether we are talking of individuals, or entire organizations, such as the British and Moghuls, must build plastic bridges before realizing the foolishness of their technique. Ashoka realized this - and Buddhism has thrived ever since. The Moghuls never renounced violence - they vanished for good. And of course, Gandhi achieved much success purely by non-violent means. So it is very clear that violence does not belong in the domain of true happiness. Even if the violent approach is carefully thought out, it will eventually collapse on itself. The Soviet Union was a superpower but collapsed due to the weight of the rebellion against its tyrannical rule. So why is the violent approach still favored in politics? It produces short-term results that are very favourable. One can ignore the long-term consequences for some time. However, it is still a false pursuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohit
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Originally Posted by SRS
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Originally Posted by Which clearly shows what Rohit
why do we always blow everthing out of proportion here, happiness is a state of mind /heart where as the heart/mind becomes free from all troubles at that point in time.
in my view, true happiness is a taste of liberation.
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why do we always blow everthing out of proportion here, happiness is a state of mind /heart where as the heart/mind becomes free from all troubles at that point in time.
in my view, true happiness is a taste of liberation.
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1) Satisfaction comes when one ceases to strive for something that one doesn't have.
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4) Bliss comes when one ceases to discern the difference between bondage (slavery/enslavement) and freedom (independence), between corruption and honesty, between delusion and reality, between dissatisfaction and satisfaction, between fallacies and factual/logical/absolute truths, between false and true, between greed and generosity, between imbecility and intelligence, between jealously (rivalry, restlessness, resentfulness etc.) and tranquillity (calmness, peacefulness etc.), between loss and gain, between pain and joy, between suffering and happiness, between wrong and right; and thus, the difference between countless contrasting and conflicting sentiments and situations. In essence, it is an attempt to attain a mental state that is completely impounded by a broad detachment from the reality.
to rohit , all you are doing is the same as google. you find similar words in my posts from yours and highlight them . but the words are used in different context. i am speaking about a glimse about true liberation and you are saying that happiness is not caring about liberation and bondage.
i do agree with some of the things you are saying but not all , a wise man will pick all the good from a conversation and leave the rest behind . so i do agree with some things that you say but not all
I am not saying that, but that is what bliss means in real terms, I am afraid.Quote:
i am speaking about a glimpse about true liberation and you are saying that happiness is not caring about liberation and bondage.
Anyway, please define true liberation of your conception; and then exhibit some of the characteristics (show glimpses) of true liberation of your conception.
Again, please define good of your conception; and then exhibit some of the characteristics of goodness of your conception.Quote:
........a wise man will pick all the good from a conversation and leave the rest behind.
Anyway, that is what is called subjectivism. A wise man should not overlook the factual reality around him by picking up only the subjective things that appeal to him; and ignore those that don't. If one, either unintentionally or intentionally, does that; one invariably traps oneself into the bondage of subjectivism, I am afraid.
It just goes to show, there is no absolute definition of happiness. Short-term happiness is more about pleasure; whereas long-term happiness has more to do with stability. I do not think long-term happiness comes at the cost of anyone's suffering. Like I said, long-term happiness implies stability. Colonialism did not last; the foundations were unstable from the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohit
By the way, just because the British had an "empire" does not mean they were overhelmed by joy. Do you know about the condition of British society at that time... the larger mass of British citizenry lived in ajbect poverty. The so-called "Industrial Revolution" that transformed the British society into a "giant" came at the cost of the slave labor of millions of children and women. So I do not think the greater masses of British citizenry experienced long term happiness as a result of colonizing India. Most of them were too poor to even feel the impact.
Now you will argue, colonization of India came at the expense of developing the British society. That is not true. Britain controlled 2/3 of all nations on the globe at one point. The reasons for the lack of development of British society came from within the British society itself - more to do with a lack of available free public education, and lack of much needed political reform.
That is exactly what I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS
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Originally Posted by Rohit
While I would agree that one cannot give a precise definition of happiness, there are neverthless certain objective criteria to validate that "happiness" does indeed exist. This is most evident in the case of pleasure, what I referred to as short-term happiness before. Let us say a small fellow is given a cone of ice cream. If electrodes were placed on his scalp while he consumed the ice cream, and the pulses were mapped in the before and after case, then we will see a consequent increase in the frequency of the signals emitted therein in the latter case. Which implies more neurons are firing than normal. What I do not know is who suffers as a result of his ice cream consumption. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohit
But it is the happiness that is spoken about, that brings sadness. Think about it :(
"What I do not know is who suffers as a result of his ice cream consumption." The body and food as I understand it, are "tamas". And these together bring sickness and hence sadness.
How do all this relate to the chanting of mantras. I think we have all strayed.
What do you mean by "the happiness that is spoken about?"Quote:
Originally Posted by goodsense
Actually there is some (controversial) scientific theory which says that less food consumption will result in less production of free radicals (free radicals being a product of metabolism). Free radicals supposedly accelerate the process of cell death. Therefore, according to this theory, one will longer the less he eats.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodsense
That is, in my view, extreme science. One can never leave his home - this will ensure he never gets into a motor accident. Life is not fun if you don't take certain risks. Certainly, an over-indulgence of the appetite will bring grief at some point. But to deny the physiological neccessity of food, is, in my opinion, a rather gross exaggeration of a silly kind.
I was referring to the worldy happiness and using food (the ice-cream) as an example. The wordly happiness here would be as you put it, "an over-indulgence of the appetite" (the person who lives to eat and not eat to live). I wasn't referring to necessities. Nothing that is necessary in life gives worldy happiness. But speaking of the body being tamas, I was also thinking about the sensual desires.
The 'Self' that feels happy by eating fatty foods and eventually ends up in utter misery. :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :) :thumbsup:Quote:
What I do not know is who suffers as a result of his ice cream consumption.
I guess, this was a breaktime from audio pleasure (Obviously yet another kind of sensory/sensual pleasure) :D :) :thumbsup:Quote:
How do all this relate to the chanting of mantras. I think we have all strayed.
Aananda (unconditional happiness) is the very own nature of the Self. But the Ego tries to be in that state by seeking it externally, through the senses. And it wants non-stop sensual pleasure (addiction) which results in misery. This is conditional Ananda or happiness.Quote:
over-indulgence
This happiness , as we are all discussing, is derived by misery only. This misery is to the body and also to others. Ice cream is a misery to the tongue, to the digestive juices in the stomach, it is an overload for the liver etc. Then who enjoys it?. It is the Ego that enjoys it at the expense of the body.
The same ice cold, the Ego does not want on the external body. Then it needs a blanket. But it can chill the tongue and enjoy that pain as "Happiness".
http://sakthifoundation.org/foodlikes.htm
"The experiences of pain and pleasure have been described as the extreme ends of a continuum. Now a study from Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) supports that concept by finding that brain structures previously shown to react to rewarding experiences are also activated, although in distinctive ways, by pain. The result, appears in the December 6 issue of Neuron, 2001."
Ego wants to maintain it's dominance and for that it does not care what happens to the body. This results in over eating (exploitation of senses) resulting in obesity and accompanying diseases and not to mention free radical generation.
So before eating it is good to chant Mantras.
Why to chant to mantras before eating?. Chanting mantras relaxes the mind. With a relaxed mind when we eat there are so many advantages. One is we enjoy every mouthful of the food that is nourishing to the mind and also to the body.
Our five and half year old son happily chants mantras before eating but does not like the idea of "not" watching television while eating. We tell him while eating the mind and body should be co-ordinated. If not what happens is that the food goes in mechanically and we over eat (SRS- excess calories).
The American Academy of Pediatrics suggests that children while watching television, often snack on unhealthy food choices. Two articles in the October issue of The Journal of Pediatrics describe the relationship between television watching and childhood obesity.
Our Indian tradition teaches us not to even talk while eating (we used to hate our grandma's for that).
Look at the wisdom of Ayurveda which says that when the mind is depressed then the individual eats more sweets and when the mind is stressed the individual eats more spicy hot foods.
So to eat a balanced food , one has to have a relaxed mind. For that Chanting of Mantra helps. Look at our beautiful tradition of chanting
" Brahmarpanam brahma havir
brahmagnau brahmana hutam
brahmaiva tena gantavyam
brahma-karma-samadhina.
Brahman is offering Brahman through Brahman for the sake of Brahman. He who thinks that the act of offering as Brahman, the sacrificer as Brahman, the fire into which the sacrifice is made as Brahman and is thus fully engrossed in Consciousness obtains Brahman Itself.
This not only relaxes the mind , but also brings the mind to the ultimate reality.
"Look at the wisdom of Ayurveda which says that when the mind is depressed then the individual eats more sweets and when the mind is stressed the individual eats more spicy hot foods. " I have personally experienced this and it all leads to weight gaining and more annoyance. I am happy that I have started to control it being so conscious of it. I know I still have a long way to go.
"Look at the wisdom of Ayurveda which says that when the mind is depressed then the individual eats more sweets and when the mind is stressed the individual eats more spicy hot foods". I have personally experienced this and it all leads to weight gaining and more annoyance. I am happy that I have started to control it being so conscious of it. I know I still have a long way to go. Once you know how to curb the depression, everything else is manageable. It's all to do with some past horrible experience which many people here are aware of.
Ayurveda rocks... thats true... thats why even bodybuilders use chromium to control sugar craving when on heavy regimen as depression is something common then.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodsense
Lolita Gogo :D :P
Well my case has been much more serious that this. One day I would be eating a large chocolate bar, the next day standing in front of the stove stirring custard and the next day stirring rice pudding (what you call keer in India). And these would not be in small quantity. And I would be surprise if any is left for the next day. In addition to that, when you are in that state, you lock yourself away (for a number of reasons), which means less oxygen and more carbon-dioxide while over-using your mental faculty due to the magnitude of work while sitting at a desk for long hours and living and breathing in papers). Imagine the condition. :oops: Some people laughed at me which has added to my aggravation. How sad. :( Thank God I was able to move away from that condition although I still struggle. :(
Who or what is Lolita Gogo?
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1998 Apr;136(3):272-83.Click here to read Links
"Depression" increases "craving" for sweet rewards in animal and human models of depression and craving.
Centre for Substance Abuse Research, Department of Psychology, University of Wales, Swansea, UK. p.willner@swansea.ac.uk
Who or what is happy and who or what plunges into misery?
The answer is available through the understanding of five aggregates, which are:
The Aggregate of Matter: This is constituted by solidity, fluidity, gaseous, heat and motion (trough space and time)
The Aggregate of Feelings Or Sensations: These are categorised as pleasant, unpleasant or neutral, and they arise through the consciousness of physical and mental conditions, which in turn, is conditioned by the perceptions of objective world and other sensory perceptions including visual, sound, smell, taste, tactile sensations and other mental constructs etc.
Aggregate of Perception: The faculty that enables mental recognition of something by picking out its characteristics or experience.
The Aggregate of Mental Formation Or Constructs: These involve volition, intentions, determination heedlessness, intuition, desire, ignorance, aversion and finally the most detrimental idea of the Atman/Soul/Self.
The Aggregate of Consciousness: This is a state that is aware of all the four aggregates that supervene out of their conjunction, but it is not and cannot be independent of the four aggregates, as there is no arising of Consciousness without conditions. Consciousness cannot exist separately from the other four aggregates and just as they are impermanent and constantly changing, so is Consciousness; and what is constructed as the Atman/Soul/Self, a sort of fixed, central command centre and immutable point of reference is, then nothing but an illusion.
:) :thumbsup:
Good sense this might help you to overcome the cravings for sweets
http://sakthifoundation.org/tongue.htm
http://sakthifoundation.org/foodaware.htm
Interdependent Origination
Ignorance: This is the state in which everything is born into when entering the wheel of becoming.
Ignorance is also the root cause of the false sense of the Atman/Soul/Self, which in turn causes the desperate desire of clinging to life (immortality), which leads to:
Will to Action: Ignorance, the four aggregates giving rise to Consciousness and desires lead to will to act intentionally in a particular way (sacrifices, rituals and chanting mantras), either good or bad, which in turn leads to:
Names and Forms: A psychophysical interaction between organism and the world, which leads to:
Sense Impressions (or conducts): The information about the world derived through the five senses and the mind, which leads to the origination of feelings and emotions, which in turn, leads to:
Attachment: Attachment to things, ideas, names and forms, ideals etc. in the world trough false desires that can never be fully satisfied or fulfilled give rise to suffering, which in turn condemns it to:
Regeneration: The inevitable results of which are ageing and finally the death
And the regeneration of new generations from the past generations continues the whole cycle of being and becoming all over again.
:) :thumbsup:
Ignorance: This is the state in which everything is born .
Ignorance is also the root cause of the false sense of identity (Ego) instead the real “Self”. Ego, which in turn causes the desperate desire of clinging to life (trying to extend life miserably in hospital with all plastic tubes and wires hanging around), which leads to:
Will to Action: Ignorance, the four aggregates giving rise to desires lead to will to act intentionally in a particular way (destroying environment, create atom bombs, apply pesticides to kill other living beings), either good or bad, which in turn leads to:
Names and Forms: A psychophysical interaction between organism and the world, which leads to:
Sense Impressions (or conducts): The information about the world derived through the five senses and the mind, which leads to the origination of feelings and emotions, which in turn, leads to:
Attachment: Attachment to things, ideas, names and forms, ideals etc. in the world trough false desires that can never be fully satisfied or fulfilled give rise to suffering, which in turn condemns it to:
Regeneration: The inevitable results of which are ageing and finally the death
And the regeneration of new generations from the past generations continues the whole cycle of being and becoming all over again.
Be born again and again, miserably and use the intellect to confuse others and create fragmented views., , until one stops identifying the Ego and understand the real nature is the “Self”.
Thanks for those links Pradeep. I started to read and find they are lengthy. Will continue in about three weeks time. I am sure I will find them useful. I hope my doctor will be happy at last. He feels he was not doing enough to help.
This is what is called suffering through the process of superposition. It is better to keep complete silence than to exhibit utter ignorance. :lol: :D :) :thumbsup:Quote:
Be born again and again, miserably and use the intellect to confuse others and create fragmented views., , until one stops identifying the Ego and understand the real nature is the “Self”.
Interdependent Origination
Ignorance: This is the state in which everything is born into when entering the wheel of becoming.
Ignorance is also the root cause of the false sense of the Atman/Soul/Self, which in turn causes the desperate desire of clinging to life (immortality), which leads to:
Will to Action: Ignorance, the four aggregates giving rise to Consciousness and desires lead to will to act intentionally in a particular way (sacrifices, rituals and chanting mantras), either good or bad, which in turn leads to:
Names and Forms: A psychophysical interaction between organism and the world, which leads to:
Sense Impressions (or conducts): The information about the world derived through the five senses and the mind, which leads to the origination of feelings and emotions, which in turn, leads to:
Attachment: Attachment to things, ideas, names and forms, ideals etc. in the world trough false desires that can never be fully satisfied or fulfilled give rise to suffering, which in turn condemns it to:
Regeneration: The inevitable results of which are ageing and finally the death
And the regeneration of new generations from the past generations continues the whole cycle of being and becoming all over again.
:) :thumbsup:
Good sense thank you. I tell my friends that to get unhealthy habits we take only few moments but to correct them we take very long time. Similarly only few instructions are only needed for unhealthy actions but for healthy actions we need lengthy lectures. Please read similar thoughts in my post in the thread DO WE CONSIDER GOD AS HUMAN?Quote:
Thanks for those links Pradeep. I started to read and find they are lengthy.