Thambigala, idhu enna ARR-IR sandai poi, ippo IR(Kamal faction)-IR(anti Kamal faction-IR(2k+faction)-nuttu kalavaram? Idhu enna sathyamoorthy bhavana imbuttu factions nadatharadudhukku?
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Thambigala, idhu enna ARR-IR sandai poi, ippo IR(Kamal faction)-IR(anti Kamal faction-IR(2k+faction)-nuttu kalavaram? Idhu enna sathyamoorthy bhavana imbuttu factions nadatharadudhukku?
Aaah. The 'vaayka tagararu' seems to be serious now :) I will wait for it to cool down before I put down some more thoughts on Raja's music. Gives me time to frame my thoughts as well :)
Suresh you also have to agree that Raja often expressed the limitations of movie songs and his desire to move from scoring songs for movies to higher forms of music like symphony.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Thats is the reason behind his non-film ventures like HTNI and NBW and the Symphony for RPO but somewhere in the process he suddenly gave up the idea and it took wat more than ten years to come up with thiruvasagam.
Nothing wrong in fans expectations of him to score more symphonies rather than just film music. Since he is the only musician in india who is capable of doing that, i am of the view that nobody else including Rahman and other classical or film composers have that.
Just tell me what he is going to achieve by scoring more film songs?
other than inviting comparisons with either his past glory or with current crop of MDs?
Its frustrating to see such a genius capable of doing much more than he is actually doing and to top it he himself having the kind of desire, still doing the songs for movies.
BTW i have nothing against film songs its the only form of music i grew up listening to particularly Raja's and 800 movies thousands of songs more than enough for a life time....
plum ,
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
To me, therein lies the strength of a true artist. His not being afraid of people comparing him with the current crop of MDs. Infact, in an interview with Bhavatharini he says, even he is a present day MD !!!Quote:
Just tell me what he is going to achieve by scoring more film songs?
other than inviting comparisons with either his past glory or with current crop of MDs?
It is easy to run away and hide behind past glory, and that too when you have lots of it,when times are tough. It takes a true artist to fight the odds, the criticism, the loss of faith and the scoffing. Raja is doing all that. Maybe many of us feel that the glory days may not come back. That is perfectly fine but why crib when he still gives us great music. I can't think of any song equivalent to 'Kannil Paarvai' in Tamil film music in the last 2 to 3 yrs time frame.
I too would love more non-film albums from him but for whatever reasons he isn't doing it, financial or otherwise, no one can force him to. All I would want is for him to work more. There may be misses but there will be enough hits to keep us all happy. I mean, would we all not love it if he does 10 to 12 albums a year. Are we not certain that definitely 4 to 5 of them will turn out to be outstanding?
Well, so what is he trying to prove in film music? I can't speak from him but I guess he wants to show that he is capable of adapting himself to changing times and his music still has some relevance? Maybe he feels he still has a lot to give to us? He definitely seems to be a restless soul when it comes to music and the only way he would be happy is if he keeps composing all the while? So many probable answers but as long as he wants to compose and as long as he composes like how he did for 'Naan Kadavul' or 'Nandalala' why should we even ask this question?
When Raja himself isn't afraid of failure or being told that his music is old fashioned, why should we be embarrassed and ask him to stop? As far as I am concerned, all power to him. My feeling is that with the coming of newer directors who look deeper into Tamil Nadu and want to make more local films, Raja is being discovered again and again. Many may want to wish him away but I don't think he will go off in a hurry. And I am thankful for that.
i want him to compose for films, but precisely as Suresh pointed out 'Kaiyetha' or 'Kannil Paarvai' or 'Mandhaara Poo' or 'Kaatril Varum Geethame' or 'Kei Veesi'. Stuff like these.
ofcourse i want him to work on non-fim albums too.
More importantly, i want him to release his own works, be it RPO or atleast backgound scores from the films. Look now.. whatever happened to that special BGM release of Nandhala/Nan Kadavul. filmmakers talk about his BGms and say they plan to release... but they finally dont. Amidst all this, why is IR silent? Why cant he release his own stunning BGM pieces? wish he does that.
The problem here is just that... its not happening :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Anyway as hardcore fans of raaja all we cud do is support him by buying original CD's of the albums. The least we can do apart from speculating endlessly about his actions, silence etc., The man wud simply not talk, so the burden shifts to the fans!!! :D
Suresh..absolutely wonderful job..what diligence.
So now the question to the forum do we have a consensus that post-2000 is good or not ?
Maybe we dont have a consensus. Here is what I think the problem is - we do not have a standard to estimate the musical value of a song. We just say "80 greatest" as though all that was done in the 80s was of "high-quality". Maybe it was just popularity. Popularity does not have to mean musical quality (agree ?).
Now I want to go out on a limb and offer my pet theories/hypotheses/opinion. Everybody should feel free to question/debunk my theories.
<Amateur theorising>
I would like to classify IRs songs into various genres viz -
. POP music - rhythm oriented - germaniyin, andhi mazhai, kOda manjil
. semi-classical fusion - raagam based melodies with bass lines for rhythm+counter melody eg. Mohan songs
. Pure melodies - tabla driven + melody based interludes eg. nilA ve vaa - mouna raagam, azhagil azhagu dEvadhai
. Minimalistic tunes - these are tunes which IR does for small budget movies with just tabla - eg. ammana summa illada, ava illana yaarum illada
Ok, my classification may not be right. But I am sure about the first category - POP music. Quite a bit of these were done in the 80s (see my list in page 1 or 2). This is the category which new MDs like Rahman are playing in. This is completely out of IRs hands. Either he is not doing it or lost interest in it or his strategy is not working anymore (ie. bass+drum combos etc). I dont think this terrirtory can be reclaimed anymore (maybe pessimistic here).
Re: minimalistic tunes - I think these are the ones which did IR in. But this is where IR learnt how to pluck tunes out of the database of raagams. It helped IR learn music composition, but did not help him in the long run. It overexposed his tunes and created some stereotypes
Semi-classical fusion and Pure Melodies are areas which IR still has a lead. Semi-classical fusion - has made rapid strides (not just with bass lines) with songs like enna solli paaduvathO as an epitome of innovation in the areas of ICM and WCM fusion. No other MD has ventured into this terriroty.
Pure Melodies - though he has a lead in this. The arrangement in these songs needs sprucing up. IR has been trying but I would like to see better output. He is being challenged in this area by Rahman as well, even though on closer inspection Rahman is behind (eg. kannil paarvai). IR continues to do numbers in this space with classical arrangements (like maa ganga or songs from ivan). But I doubt there is a market for this.
</Amateur theorising -end>
Anyways, you guys may not completely agree with what I have written, but if you think I am on the right track. I will try to write more along these lines (after doing some real research).
(a) You do not have to agree that IR has given his best music since 2001. But you could agree that it is not that bad as its thought. The people here made it sound like he died which really makes me angry. Criticism is one thing, but totally degrading him is totally off the mark. Even ARR fans have criticism of their idol's songs, but it is not as sickening like in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
(b) I feel that raja uses synth in such a way that it sounds more like a instrument-replacement rather than a sound enhancer. I know that alot of IR fans do not like this change and they mention stuff like why not live orchestra but they should realise the man only uses them if necessary. Besides there might be a budget problem in accommodating a live orchestra which is why IR might be leaving them out. I do enjoy his synth except for probably one or two movies. I dunt really see that much of a problem when i listen to them as stated here otherwise.
(c) As i mentioned criticism is allowed, but how good is the criticism is one thing. The moment there is criticism there are statements like he should stop doing film music and all that stuff. I believe it might be a result of high standards but then trying to think they all need to have a 80s 90s quality is plain silly. He has tried to make his songs suit the movie and as such the rhythm and the arrangements have mellowed down. But i feel there is a refined taste in his composing.
(d) I start mentioning that when people try to make him look like he is really dead or he has no talent. It is not a statement to make up for his "mediocre"(subjective again) music but to just remind IR fans who feel he must have experimented here or there that he has already done all that stuff. Maybe i should have said his special focus on matching song for film (nandalala style) is a additional reason.
(e) He does have creative bursts which alot of IR fans dunt amazingly notice. It does not come in every album but it is still there. The taalam pattern in dhanam dhanam enga dhanam(the taalams the man can come up with is amazing), bass guitar in koothu onnu(i think i mention this everytime but i cant help it), guitar riffs in malepoovu theme, piano in chandamama, the remix in anumanaspadam which had great use of mridhangam like a "chop". The arabic orchestration in salsalakkum kaatre in TTLS.There is still alot more. But then people will say it aint up to his 80s style.
As for me saying all this grouses are due to ARR's success, that is because from the time i followed this forum till now, the fans seem to be overawed by whatever breakthrough ARR makes. ARR's amazing recording quality has been indirectly used as a reason to criticise IR. If IR fans were not overawed by ARR's success as you mention then i think we would have a combined ARR-IR forum long time back.
What according to you is unimpressive in Raja's track? Mention me the tracks and let me see if they are unimpressive. The problem with alot of people here is they straight away judge the track upon its tune and then throw it away. Alot of people said koothu onnu was seductive and not recommended for listening and they ignored the whole composition completely. Not an IR fan's cup of tea if you ask me.
kiru,
I will have to disagree with you on the very first classification itself. Is Andhi Mazhai POP? Germaniyin POP? Definitely nowhere close to being POP. I would classify them as pure melodies which may be driven by beat. When you pick up a ragam like Vasantha and innovate so much, you are not in the POP territory at all. Same with Kodamanjin. A lovely Suddha Saveri with nice beats.
This is exactly the secret of Raja. You hear the beats and I hear the raga :) The amount of integration he has done in his music is outstanding and these songs stand as examples for that.
So what has gone away from him? The 'hit' territory has gone away from him. This is obviously very hard to classify but what is generally a hit today in urban areas is the POP sound. No doubt about that. The intricacies in tune or orchestration in them is nowhere close to what 'Andhi Mazhai' had. (Can't expect it anyway.) So we should feel lucky that there were times when the hits songs had lot of musical merit in them as well.
Every composer has some templates when it comes to composing. In case of Raja, the number of templates he has is probably the highest amongst the lot and he is discovering newer templates regularly. ('Kai Veesi' can be classified as one such example of a newer template).
Will be good if people participate more and give us an idea of what their classification would be. I personally like Kiru's idea of classification but I believe the number of categories he has is less.
Completely agree with you. That is why I said in my post in page 1 - "IR aficianados might say, it is not right to look at a song only from the rhythm perspective, that these songs have good chords, interludes, harmonies and possibly even strict adherence to one single rAgam. But it is undeniable that these songs are catchy and groovy and will be a total hit even today. "Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Instead of saying what has gone away from him, I am trying to guess the component of the song that has gone and the answer I am going to hazard is that bassline or the drum loop. That was the title of my post in page 1 - "Where has the rhythm gone ?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
Yes, they should, my classification can be completely thrown away. If somebody had a manageable criteria for classification, preferably with rhythm as one of its components, then we should take it up. Otherwise we are not going anywhere why IR's music is not a hit anymore or whether IR is doing bad these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
if you ask me why IR's music is not a hit anymore, i would say IR has never changed but the world has changed.
See, IR always stick to his way of composing , he never changed/compromised on his style/arrangements etc, which is not so cool/new for younger generation where as the same is old/repetitive for us the previous gen.
Why the song 'kai veesi' instantly likable for all of us, 'coz its a fast phased melody, which is trend now and which IR is not doing frequently.Becose he will never change his methods, what he is trying to do now is to persuade both the previous and current generation to listen to his old school type music. He is successfull in doing so somwtimes and also failing some times given the nature of thing he is trying to acheive.
The essence of my message here is, most of us the previous generation is moving away from listenening to IR kinda music where as most of the current generation is like to listen only fast phased music.(I dont like sterotyping people, thats why i am using the word 'most', so please dont jump on me).
I think the taste of music depends more on the character than the generation. Most of today's generation are quite "accept what seems attractive" type which carries their taste but then there a also quite a number who like to explore alot(listening to different types of music), concentration and focus(tendency on melodies) and some who are introverts love soulful music like me.
Hulk,
I'd like to clarify certain assumptions i 'assume' you and others have about "us" (i include myself in the criticizers list, maybe the degree varies) and what our grouses are
(1) We have never said that Raaja's creativity is gone. He goes in "ordinary" mode (in our opinions) only to surface with "great vengeance" with a Bharathi, Virumaandi, Mumbai Xpress or a Naan Kadavul. Is it a question of 'challenging' him enough? Not to say that there's no creativity in his other works (or all his 80s-90s where his best creative efforts)
(2) If i say i don't want certain synth sounds it does not mean he has lost his experimental hat. And when i find certain melodies of have a 'certain 2000 Raja typical pattern' to it i'm not necessarily implying a rant on "outdatedness". Quite the opposite actually. Eppadi solradhu nu therila (certain things are best explained by direct conversation :) )
(3) As i see it, some of our fellow IR fans themselves are wrongly bucketing Raaja's repertoire and styles which in my mind is an insult to his music and limits it into rigid confines.
(4) Recording quality is only part of the issue. As i've been crying hoarse, its about the usage [One may try to put me in my place by saying IR neednt be told by any mortal on what instrument to use but then i get to choose what i like. So its just about preferences]
(5) All this talk of rubbishing the sound or novelty factor is rubbish. IR himself burst into the scene with sounds and experiments not seen before at that time (like what Rahman did with and since Roja). Reducing Raaja to a one who "scores minimalistic soulful scores" or "one who is (only) classically inclined" or "a light musician", "updated version of MSV" etc is silly. You didn't say this, Hulk, ungala sollala
They need not be unimpressive to you. My point was, by asking us to change our views and by attempting to dispel every negative notion we had, you seemed to find no single unimpressive feature in Raaja's music post 2000, let alone an unimpressive track.Quote:
What according to you is unimpressive in Raja's track? Mention me the tracks and let me see if they are unimpressive
Seri, neenga kettadhukku, Nandalala albuthaye eduthukkuvom, Vandu Koottam and Thalattu weren't very impressive for me. Needless to say, i don't expect you to share the same opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
Well ironically bala your not in the list who criticised raaja vehemently. You have mentioned that some of his songs were not up to the mark but otherwise the criticism was understandable so i had absolutely no problem. My anger was more towards those who threw him off immediately with quite un-IR fan like remarks. I do understand the album may be unsatisfying to different listeners(Probably you can categorize IR fans into different sections as well) But the remarks show more of dislike rather than opinion based criticism.
This is why i asked to re-analyse them not for fighting but to see what are the tracks they dislike. If they said IMO or mentioned for my own aural pleasure i would not have mind it but bringing it to a extent where it really reeks of negativity and also bringing in his marketing value, personality for his "failure" etc etc.
As a fan i understand that what i like others might not like but then there is a limit between criticising and plainly not understanding your own idol's composing style. Its amazing the harshest critics here are probably categorized under one who probably likes a decent tune but they make it sound like the song is void of anything good.
Even i dunt have good technical knowledge, i probably only know ludes and guitar,piano,violin and that was all due to raja's songs pushing me to discover them. What i want to tell this people is that, even i was bred into a hardcore raja fan from the songs they all believe wunt even ignite a little baby from the current generation. Which is why i think we should relook at his albums again. From Suresh65 list the albums dunt look as "scarey" that was said by the IR "fans" here.
sorry, i am just giving my thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
A recent telugu film called Sunny had one song 'nee banda bada'. I felt IR stooped down a lot in that song. One more film "Shiv Shankar"(telugu) had one "nenemi chethunu" song. these are 'item' songs. Now please dont say that an item song ought to be that way. IR composed much better item songs.Listen to them and tell me if you would like to associate IR with it, or if you would play them on your stereo anytime. If i have to pick non-item songs which were unimpressive, to me, there were many. Listing them is a difficult task for me now. like 'Kangalum Kavipaduthey', i somehow didnt like some songs of that film, although Maalai Nila was brilliant.
I am only citing some examples, for that single question of yours.
Actually nee bandababa is a typical IR item song(by his standards), not that bad and not that good, the ludes were quite interesting especially the first interlude(Percussions and synth) but i think the tune will put off alot of people due to its deja vu feel.
Judging by your style i guess your more of a listener who prefers the orchestration to come in the flow of a good tune as maalai nila is exactly that. In that case there will be alot of tracks you will have problems making me to agree as i am a strong fan of his orchestration rather than tune(Unless the tunes are too plain which is quite rare in his case).
Hulkster, if thats what you are concerned about, then this trend is unlikly gonna change. Just call yourself an IR fan and criticize his musical work left and right without any valid points , voila !! no harms done, coz u r an IR 'fan'.This is what happening here for a long time .
I am not against the constructive/valid criticizm or some of IR songs being unimpressive to someone (case in point, i dont celebrate all his songs), but as Hulkster put in his early message, i just dont understand why a handful of people (not all) here dismiss IR's work just like that with out even giving a second thought/listening.
MY last message was a reply for this Hulkster message,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
"From Suresh65 list the albums dunt look as "scarey" that was said by the IR "fans" here."
Absolutely. Suresh's 2K+ list contains many favourites of mine. Prathi Dinam nee dharshanam is a nice, funky update of mayanginaen. I have come round to like the former more.
Kochu Kochu - Ghanshyama and Shiva Kara - I dont think even in the 70's Raja has done songs like this. They are unique.
Engage pannungappa - appuram pesunga.
Pon Megalai. Pure Gold. Evlo peruppa ketturkkenga?
Thats the problem nanchil_guy. Imagine my shock when almost 2/3 of fans here were ready to dismiss dhanam as one of the worst albums ever. An album with experimentation(eg. ethnic/tribal flute style in the prelude of kattilukku mattumthana) certainly deserves better than this sort of remarks.
Actually for most of the time i have tried to stay away from their "criticisms" but this was really like a bolt. Cant help rebutting them back. Sanjeevi warned me before that almost every IR album will have such criticisms but this was like writing the orbituary of IR and sending it to dhinathanthi. Sollurathu comedy ninaichi paarthaal saavu-adi.
I have listened to pon megalai and konji pesalam after a recommendation by a old hubber about four years back(was browsing the forum for IR works avidly then). The melodies had a breezy carnatic touch which really grew into me.
I think i shall list albums i liked starting with Dhanam and i will go song by song to show you my taste.
raagas,
Between a few item songs, 'Nee Banda Bada', 'Azhagi Vara' 'Dhanam Dhanam', and the item song from Mallepoovu, I would probably rate 'Azaghi' way below the others. I honestly don't have a problem with 'Nee Banda Bada' and I listen to it once in a while. I don't feel that Raja has stooped in order to compose these numbers. My favorite item number is 'Singapore Santalona' from Shambu. It is here where the iconoclastic Raja comes to the fore. If you check out the rhythm for the charanam, he uses the cymbals and the drums which are normally associated with bhajans !!! I guess no one other than Raja would dare do this. (I haven't heard the Shiv Shankar number)
I had posted this in other topic earlier but a real kuthu song is here. Check out Anne Anne from Kathal Jadhi. http://www.thiraipaadal.com/albums/ALBIRR00285.html
I agree with you about Kangalum Kavi Padude. I was underwhelmed though 'Malai Nila' is a fav of mine and I listen to it often. This is the only Raja album I haven't been able to enjoy fully in the past two years.
Suresh, Kaadhal Saadhi - that is pure PLATINUM!!
Plum,
With you on 'Prati Dinam'. Honestly I hadn't heard the Tamil version before. I heard it only after I heard 'Prati Dinam'. I love 'Prati Dinam' both for the reworked orchestration and for the lyrics. The lyrics have a very conversational tone to them. Thought it was Veturi but was surprised to discover it was by Vamshi.
I would agree fully with Hulk on 'Kattilukku Mattumdhana' from Dhanam. What a lovely song though Muthuligam's in-your-face lyrics does take away a bit from the song. Would have been even better had the lyrics not been so very explicit.
Iam not sure if most of u guys out here relish female solos . Being a woman, I simply love these female solos created by Raja in the 80's ,esp with bewitching Sridevi mouthing the lines and scintillating vocals of SJ/Chitra like "kuyile kavikkuyile", "sendhoorapoove", "solai kuyile", "malargaLil aadum iLamai" , "ninaithaal inikkum" , "poN vaanam paneer thoovudhu" etc. I sometimes used to wonder how Raja could bring out such marvels without delving deep into a woman's mind . Post millennium, I find his quality of female solos has dipped. Even hit songs like "paattu cholli", "vaanaville" dont measure up to say "udhaya kaalame" or "vaan meedhile" of the 80's. Reason, either poor quality of singing as in the former , or dull, lacklustre interludes as in the case of later . Even in the recent "KaNNil paarvai", the second interlude seems to be just a filler , falling short of the standards set by a song like "kaatril endhan geetham". So the last female solo of IR which gave me the satisfaction of 80's is "niram pirithu paarthen" from the movie "Time" . "Konji pesalam" has "unnai thedi" with a great tune, average singing but very brief interludes. One consolation theory could be today's directors don't give scope for picturizing long winding interludes
Yes Plum. That is pure Platinum. No doubt about it. Should thank RS for pointing me to this. When I listened to it recently I was stunned and was listening to it on a regular basis for weeks together. Love 'Katre Katre' and 'Enna Maranthalum'. Just no one else can think up these type of melodies. Pity the movie never got released.
Suresh, you know we keep saying "IR's music is its own reward". I have understood those words before - but reading your comment on Kaadhal Saadhi made me actually feel it. Here we are talking about an unreleased movie - even IR fans havent heard it much, proof: you heard it only recently, we are using a single word to share our feelings on it(PLATINUM) yet I rather think I know exactly what you feel on these songs. I went through the same awe hearing Kaadhal Saadhi. Enna Marandhalum-nu monitor-la paarkaracheye, the song loops through my mind - Mahathi's raw, unpolished, debutant singing searing through emotions as the song requires to - heck, I dont even need to physically hear it now, it's etched - isnt this its own reward? This was a very eureka, i can feel it moment.
Thumburu,
I haven't analyzed this aspect but maybe you have a point when it comes to the Tamil songs. (And lovely songs you have mentioned!!) I fully agree with you regarding the quality of singers. Wish he uses Chitra often but it is not to be. Shreya is not bad but for Tamil songs Chitra would definitely be a better choice.
Having said that, I would like to point out a few recent female solos which have been very good. Couple from Kathal Jadhi. One by Harini and one by Manjari. 'Kanni Mara' and 'Enna Maranthalum'. Lovely numbers. The other ones I liked are all from Malayalam movies. 'Varna Vrindavanam' (Kaliyoonjal), 'Punnara Poo' , 'Kadal Kathin', and 'Sivamalli Poove' (Friends - Malayalam), 'Minnaram Maanathu' (Guru), 'Poo Kungumapoo' (Rasathantram), 'Endu Paranjalum' (Achuvinte Amma), 'Subha Niyogamale' (SMS). I am giving this list because I have recorded these in a tape and keep playing it in my car often :) (The Manjari song from Mallepoovu, "Gaajula Gala Gala" was nice but I may not bracket it with your 80s list.)
There are some lovely female solos in "Amma Paamalai" as well. Especially the Durga (Suddha Saveri) based 'Kolluramma Kovillukku'. I am not sure if you will like them because they are all sung by Bhavatarini. (I don't mind Bhavatarini in many songs but I honestly wish someone like Chitra had sung in Amma Paamalai. It would have been divine.
Plum,
Wonderfully put. Yes. It was such a eureka moment for me as well.
Suresh,
Amma Pamalai was good, but somehow i dislike Bhavatharini's voice.I find it incomplete, for some reason. It is not as complete as Chitra or even shreya ghoshal (i dont know abt her pronounciation since i dont know tamil). Even Manjari, shweta are fine for me. but not bhavatharini. Dhanam's Kannanukku Enna Vendum is an outstanding composition which could have sounded even more good if someone else sang it.
well, matter of personal choice. cant help.
Dhanam(2008)
This will probably be one of my most favourite albums post 2000s of IR. Experimentation ravishing just like IR of 80s.
Ilamai Kanavugal
A synth melody to describe it best. But it is not glaring. Rather it is structured well to make it a superbly packaged melody. The violins in the first interlude really highlight the situation showing IR's composing genius. They play in a high tempo and then switch to a contrasting one sequentially to give you a breezy romantic feel. Do i need to mention the guitar riffs in the second interlude? No words to describe them, they bring in the same feel as the violins but with no similarity to their notations. To put it correctly they "sound" like they are describing the hero's feelings about the heroine's beauty which is what the song is about.
As for the tune listen to the part where karthik expresses the becoming of his love.
"Yedhedho Maaradhu, Yen Nenjam Paadathu " The tone is modulated in such a way that you could understand what he is saying even without needing to see the lyrics. Ithuvum experimentation thaan.
Kannunukku Enna Vendum
A semi-classical song, The starting instrument(Harp-like) that softly accompanies kannukku enna vendum perfectly compliments her high-pitched voice and the actually mood of the song. The first interlude, well alot of IR fans will say that IR has done like this alot of times but the transition from synth-flute? to carnatic violin carrying the despair of her past shows you that IR is nowhere near "death". The second interlude would be best described as a veenai extravaganza. One who cant melt to this will not melt to anything. The veenai really describes the heroine's happiness at being accepted by her new family. I dunt think i need to mention about the tune's structure. As much as bhavatharini's voice is glaring, i feel that IR used her voice to bring in the despair as a contrast to enhance the song's mood.
Koothu Onnu
Seductive number yes, not worth listening i dunt think so. Listen to the groovy bass guitar strumming at the start with a racey guitar tempo in the background. It really brings in the seductive feel of the song and it continues throughout the song. The synth at the start of the first interlude has a slow, "orasifying" type of feel which builds up to the first stanza after the interlude. Notice the contrasting guitar riffs after the "aval veicha malli poo avanodeiya aasaiyai etc" it sounds like a male and female getting intimate with each other. The second interlude, well, tribal percussions mixed with a synth to give a rousing climax to their intimacy. Notice how the percussions do not deviate from their pattern to maintain the feel.
Dhanam Dhanam
This is what i call a good koothu number. I think alot of people missed out the starting percussions of this song. It goes through soft repetitions before going to a louder repitition(Not technically knowledgeable for taalam patterns, suresh can help me on this) which sounds quite interesting. There are atleast more than three different patterns for the background percussions of this song which i can notice which really shows IR's underrated skill with percussions.
1) Prelude percussion pattern which i mentioned above
2) Normal folkish style till the song starts with "enga pettaila oru rani undu"
3) A more tribalistic version of the second one with possibly one drum being removed i think.
4) "Anna letchimi sorna letchimi" has 2 and 3 combined.
The tune itself is just nice but it is the percussions that really enhance this song. I only mentioned four there is still some more to digress about when you go further.
Kattilukku Mattumthaanda
A philosophical number which brings out the pain of the lyrics amazingly well with the starting ethnic flute. The guitar that accompanies the first stanza is orchestrated like a "depressing question mark" to the question IR sings through the first stanza. "Kattilukku Mattumthana Pombala, Ava Kashtathiley Yarukkumey Pangu Ellei" then the guitar comes in. The first lude if you notice is actually a reversed version of the synth that comes in the second interlude of koothu onnu. Art of composing i would say seeing that both songs are connected in a way. Do i need to mention the flute that comes in places yet significantly to highlight IR's grouses in the song? Listen for yourself.
Unakulley Irukindren
This is probably the song which can be classified as a easy as a-b-c romantic duet by IR standards. The reduced rhythm and poison-like(i mean in a romantic way) instrumentation which is actually refined shows IR's trademark stamp nowadays. The flute in the second interlude bears the answer to those who said he has lost it and the scarey fact would be that IR has quite alot of composing styles for the flute which is evident in other songs. The highlight of this song is the accompanying mridhangam when the male/female change their modulations after the interludes and the catchy "controlled" percussion beats that comes when they sing "yenthan ulagamey ulagamey, paniyai pol urugumey".
I excluded ulagam kidakkadhu as i feel it is quite weird for IR to go for loops totally with a typical tune. But strangely sounds nice when you listen to it more than twice.
Thumburu,
I haven't analyzed this aspect but maybe you have a point when it comes to the Tamil songs. (And lovely songs you have mentioned!!) I fully agree with you regarding the quality of singers. Wish he uses Chitra often but it is not to be. Shreya is not bad but for Tamil songs Chitra would definitely be a better choice.
Having said that, I would like to point out a few recent female solos which have been very good. Couple from Kathal Jadhi. One by Harini and one by Manjari. 'Kanni Mara' and 'Enna Maranthalum'. Lovely numbers. The other ones I liked are all from Malayalam movies. 'Varna Vrindavanam' (Kaliyoonjal), 'Punnara Poo' , 'Kadal Kathin', and 'Sivamalli Poove' (Friends - Malayalam), 'Minnaram Maanathu' (Guru), 'Poo Kungumapoo' (Rasathantram), 'Endu Paranjalum' (Achuvinte Amma), 'Subha Niyogamale' (SMS). I am giving this list because I have recorded these in a tape and keep playing it in my car often :) (The Manjari song from Mallepoovu, "Gaajula Gala Gala" was nice but I may not bracket it with your 80s list.)
There are some lovely female solos in "Amma Paamalai" as well. Especially the Durga (Suddha Saveri) based 'Kolluramma Kovillukku'. I am not sure if you will like them because they are all sung by Bhavatarini. (I don't mind Bhavatarini in many songs but I honestly wish someone like Chitra had sung in Amma Paamalai. It would have been divine.
Sorry for the multiple posting
Thumburu,
Also 'Sandiyare Sandiyare'. I personally feel Shreya's voice doesn't really suit this song but she does a decent job. An excellent song.
one thing common to all the movies listed by Suresh65 - none of them are now available as CDs online anywhere !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
what the heck is that all about ??
we dont even get to listen/hear them - and if prompted, makkals refer to sites that illegally have these songs for downloading
this is IR's fate - first the CDs dont come out with a regular label, second they disappear from shelves after a few years
Suresh65,
Your list seems to miss 'mAyakkaNNAdi'.
That brings one thought to my mind that characterizes IR's output in recent years ( I don't want to get into the post-92, post-2K kind of time frames) - "failure to deliver catchy songs on reasonably-visible projects".
You can dispute this by telling musical quality, suiting to movie theme, extraordinary BGM, this and that...but it's a sad fact.
The darling of TN who used to give sensations beyond expectations on "much expected" projects in his heydays is on a "doesn't care" mode on similar ones nowadays. (Recent NK another example with a couple of rehashes and bhajans).
The "unpopular" numbers (tunes that do not quickly register in mind or make people shake their bodies even a bit) he gave to KH for ME (even to virumANdi with awful singers including the "now-too-old-to-siing-KH" - it was ok when I saw on screen but a big turn-off when I first got the album) are inexplicable.
Agreed HR was a last-minute album where he had to match what was picturized but he didn't have any such restrictions in these two, or MK or ONOK.
However, he has been consistently delivering "instantly hummable" numbers in MFM (Atrin karai, kaiyeththA etc.)
I can't help comparing his current TFM output to dhaLapathi - or even veerA , why even kAsi days. Those days he never failed an 'expected' or 'high-profile' project. The saddest case was that of MK when he could deliver just an acceptable 'ulagilE' for his mentor PA:-( Cheran may be undemanding but IR always used to give something special for PA, adhuvum illa. That's when one thinks whether he is losing interest in TFM.
UO last year was good and Nandhalala is definitely good too. May be motivation issues...
We cannot slot like that. It is just that IR gets brilliant ideas/tunes randomly(which IR calls - 'naturally', i agree). There were wonderful female in 80s and even Post-2000. few have already been pointed out. Some examples:Quote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
1. Female solos in Julie Ganapathy, by Shreya Ghoshal infact.
2. Nethu Varaikum - Kasthoorimaan (underrated, less discussed gem. i request everyone to give a hearing, so wonderful, Sujatha shines) - I will call it song of the day today.
3. Niram Pirithu - Time - Sujatha again
4. Ninnu Vethiki Vethiki Choosi - Anumanaspadam (people always talk about Prathi Dinam, but this one is a killer of a song).
There are many like these. Thats why i can never give up on IR on any aspect. :)
AE,
Yes. My list did miss 'Maya Kannadai' and I realize 'Chidambarathil Oru Appuswamy'. I agree with you that not only MK but also COA did not have 'instantly catchy' songs. As I had earlier mentioned, the 'hits' that he gives in Tamil have been less. Fair assessment I would say. As you said that is an important factor as well. That is also reflected in the record sales. So no one can really dispute that.
While I would also love the Raja of the past where he could suit every mood of the movie and also come up with 'hits', my concern is about the quality of music itself. Has it gone down? We can answer it the way we perceive. I don't think the quality has gone down. For example I do feel ME was a nice soundtrack with lot of experimentation. Maybe it was not a super duper hit, maybe not even an ordinary hit, but musically it was satisfying to me. Think of the songs from Solla Marantha Kadai. I liked atleast 3 songs from that movie but it was not a major hit. Maybe the 'catchiness' wasn't there but to me, the music was not bad. Infact it was high quality stuff.
I would disagree with you on a couple of points. I don't think 'Mayakannadi' can be called a high profile project. Honestly I never had much expectations from a Cheran movie when it comes to music. Cheran is known more for his realistic cinema than for music. (Unlike BM, MR, BR, Mahendran etc.) Post 2000s, the only projects that I expected great music were those of Kamalahasan and he delivered in all of them. ONOK had music in line with expectation of a Fazil movie. 'Katril Varum Geethame' is still a favorite to lot of people and almost everyone who comes on some singing show ends up singing this.
I know you had earlier also posted that you weren't happy with Naan Kadavul. I have to again disagree. While there are a couple of redone tunes, this has been a very satisfying album. I am not saying this for the sake of argument but I have been listening to it everyday since the day I bought it and I do feel very satisfied with the album. That without the Kaasi song.
Whatever be the issues, 2009 has started on a good note with Naan Kadavul and Nandalala being two very good sound tracks. Let's hope the year hold even better things going forward.