How would YOU arrange these songs in the descending order of composition brilliance?

[Stanley]

How would you arrange these IR songs in the descending order of brilliance in composition?

Andhi Mazhai
En Iniya Pon Nilave
Enna Satham
Idhayam Oru Kovil
Kadhal Kavithaigal Padithidum
Kadhalin Deepam Ondru
Kalyaana Maalai
Mandram Vantha
Nalam Vaazha
Nee Thane Yen Ponvasantham
Paada Vanthathor Gaanam
Pani Vizhum Malar Vanam
Poo Malai Vangi Vanthan
Poongathave Thaazh Thiravaai
Poove Sempoove
Raja Raja Cholan
Sangeetha Jaathi Mullai
Sangeetha Megam
Thendral Vanthu Ennai Thodum
Valai Oosai

[Devaraagam]

no one cannot sequence it based on the brilliance, instead I can sequence these composition according to my likes on the composition.

Note: I was not able to rating even my likes on the composition so categorized it as D,C,B and A.

when people respond to your post, you will get multiple lists and none of them will be unique.

Category D
Nee Thane Yen Ponvasantham

Category C
Idhayam Oru Kovil
Poo Malai Vangi Vanthan
Poongathave Thaazh Thiravaai

Category B
Kadhal Kavithaigal Padithidum
Paada Vanthathor Gaanam
Pani Vizhum Malar Vanam

Category A
Andhi Mazhai
Mandram Vantha
En Iniya Pon Nilave
Enna Satham
Kadhalin Deepam Ondru
Kalyaana Maalai
Nalam Vaazha
Poove Sempoove
Raja Raja Cholan
Sangeetha Megam
Thendral Vanthu Ennai Thodum
Valai Oosai



Sangeetha Swarangal (not by IR)..i feel you thought of mentioning sangeetha j

[Stanley]

Sangeetha Swarangal (not by IR)..i feel you thought of mentioning sangeetha j

My mistake. I meant Sangeetha Jaathi Mullai. I have updated the original post accordingly now.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Sometimes, even the song which i feel classic, looks somewhat bored, or un-interesting(bored is not the correct word) becos i wud have listened to it so many times. But there are tons of chouces in Same database of Raja, to pick as an alternative, to get the same feel.

The choice/list is not even near to exhaustive. that is the greatness of Raja. Also, what we look for, to get that enjoyment, also varies from song to song.


Sometimes, we look for a grand orchestration

sometime, "what is that bass tune going non-stop in background, adding tremendous beauty?"

sometimes, the melody itself.

sometimes, the melody, combined with the greatness of the singer.

sometime, a specific Raaga, inside which, we are caught, phase-locked/mind-locked to that frequence/tune so that if we hear, another equal soothng sumber of Raja itself, we can't sync to that new one and mind always want to get locked to that particular song. Only worldly duties brings us back the mind out of it.

Sometimes, the counterpoint melody, 2 or more melody parallely talking between each other, one answering to another.

Sometimes, a rocking beat, which shakes the whole body and makes us to feel like dancing. Sometimes, not a great melody or not, we will be astonished by the design of the tune itself(what a permutation/combination?! how can a man think of such a tune?!)

Sometimes, a very interesting/rare/peculiar/excellent(how to define that?! :lol: ) usage of one specific musical instrument

sometimes, just happy tears for reason which the mind doesn't think about, atleast at that point of time(mostly the philisophical numbers sung by Raja!)

sometimes high pitch, sometimes low pitch...

Sometimes, totally unexpected musical instrument, like, the guitar running in background of naathaswaram in "Pothi Vecha malliga mottu" a rural song! & the harmoniam bit appearing just before the 1st pallavi in Paruvame puthiya paadal paadu"

Endless excitement, Everlasting enthusaism, for various reasons not just limited to the list above...

Note:- I didn't read the list at all. I somehow feel pointless.

[Stanley]

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar, I can tell you what the point is.

Let's say one wants to introduce IR's music to someone who doesn't speak Tamil and isn't even from the same country. Which three or six or ten or twelve songs would you give to them to listen?

[app_engine]

Let's say one wants to introduce IR's music to someone who doesn't speak Tamil and isn't even from the same country. Which three or six or ten or twelve songs would you give to them to listen?

That's a good question / interesting topic :-)

I think irir123 is already doing this exercise on an everyday basis :-)

My #1 reco : vaLaiyOsai kalakalakalavena, I've seen every Detroiter (to whom this was played by me) falling in love with this , showering sky-high praises! No other song had such a level of response!

[irir123]

sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar, I can tell you what the point is.

Let's say one wants to introduce IR's music to someone who doesn't speak Tamil and isn't even from the same country. Which three or six or ten or twelve songs would you give to them to listen?

with IR's vast repertoire as well as other country/culture makkal's varied interests, you never know which one they would like

however,

1. only make sure that the recording quality is reasonably ok

2. try to avoid tracks with horrible chorus effects (there are quite a few amazing IR songs that are spoilt by chorus)

some of the tracks that have always worked for when I play them:

1. sangeetha megam
2. valai osai
3. netru vantha katru
4. vaanam keezhey
5. oru kanam oru yugamaaha (surprisingly liked by many caucasians!)
6. ninnukkori
7. vaa vaa anbe anbe
8. andhi mazhai
9. ennulley
10. malai kozhil vaasalil (surprise again)
11. kannan vandhu paduginraan
12. kanavil midhakkum
13. megam kottattum
14. en iniya pon nilavey
15. How to Name It - main track
16. Modern Concerto - raaja parvai
17. Mozart, I Love You - Nothing but wind
18. Puthham Pudhu kaalai
19. Mandram Vandha
20. Elangathhu
21. Ilaya Nila
22. Panivizhum malarvanam
23. Edho Moham

try the above

[kiru]

Just play TIS to them...it has almost all the techniques IR has used in film music (even though he has apparently told our friends that he did not really try to use all his tricks).
Otherwise, SKV is right.. IR has used different idioms and the work will fall into different genre. Depending upon the taste of your audience you need to give them the right ones. I personally like one genre in IR's music, basically, orchestral works mixed with indian melodies. Guru, Pazhassi Raja etc.

[Stanley]

Thanks app_engine, irir123 and kiru.

I'm still looking forward to a few more replies like Devaraagam's. :)

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

In the list irir123 gave, Some songs, i never feel like listening again... Ilangaathu veesuthe is one. I agree all songs mentioned there are of both quality and hit. But somehow i don't feel like listening some songs (of IR) at all. There is this Santhana Kaatre which is another one. I can say kind of allergy. The musical engine in me(everybody has that!) somehow always shows high in allergy-meter(ஒவ்வாமை) wrt to those songs. I will never say they are bad and even i can listen in group, especially if i am within a hubbers meet and someone like suresh65 wants to explain the inner beauty of that song, i will listen. But when i am playing songs for me, those 2 song are NO!

I don't know how ppl will take this, so far I have listened only 1 song from AnnakkiLi! The famous machaanai paatheengaLA! Similarly, 16 Vayathinile, at 1st listen, i found ALL songs somewhat sumaar :lol: but was hear that was an super duper hit album. But then, those songs somewhat became listenable.

When app pointed the B/W rajini song Vizhiyile Vishunthathu, that was not at all too convincing for me

I am sure everybody has such a list. Even some hubbers say they are not well versed with (one of the) 80s or 90s or 00s etc and stick with other 2 decades, or they will say they are catching up with the other decade. Its not that they have never listened to, but some kind of inner-musical-barrier within themself. Its almost undefinable! we can't say why our musical-engine rejects that song!

May be the best thing u can do, also considering that the ppl in west mostly dislike downloaded MP3, you can buy them the FireSynth Album and TiS, both are 2 extremes! If they like few numbers, then suggest songs of similar type/mood/genre from Flipkart's Flyte and ask them to buy. That would help both musically and if they spread the word to their circle, may be help with some Sales too :lol:

btw, this selective-rejectionO phobia, i was thinking to discuss for looong time!

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

But same time, its technically not an impossible thing to come up with a great list, I also think that, if someone is a great musical expert wrt the musical tastes of world ppl, very good grasp wrt Music appreciation, he or she shud be able to come up with a list which may work to anybody. Or, he can make a list with various sets of other musician's songs, and based on what they like from those other ppl's work, a software engine which automatically generates a set of Raja Numbers. If this is on a website, then it can even preview those songs and encourage to buy those songs! mhmm, ithai ellaam eduthu pOttu seyya oruthar irunthaa nallaarukkum

[Punnaimaran]

One song I know which immediately captures the minds of Middle East people (both men and women) is O Priya Priya. Everyone I'd played to fell in love with it instantly and surprisingly almost all were praising the lines from நீயோர் ஓரம் to தாகம் தீராது...ஓ ப்ரியா.

[app_engine]

1. only make sure that the recording quality is reasonably ok


Very important point!

Though some of the best melodies of IR happened in his first 100 movies, the quality of recording / mastering / final output available to end-customers may not meet minimum standards of an average listener from most industrialized countries :-(

However, IR had given innumerable goodies during eighties too, with stereo recording and much better LPs to end customers. e.g. kOzhi koovuthu. EdhO mOgam should be an automatic choice in any of such "show case" efforts, IMHO.

vaLaiyOsai & EdhO mOgam should impress anyone starting from kuppan-suppan / T-D-H to RDB / Paul Mauriat / SKV :-)

dhairiyamA show-case paNNalAm.

There are some songs that are instantly catchy to anyone ("the ants go marching") but lose steam over a period of time, i.e. with taste-refinement.

There are others that need some "prior-taste-building" before enjoying. ("nAnoru ponnOviyam kaNdEn ethirE" may not appeal to non-musical-westerner instantly, for e.g. It needs some "pre-conditioning")

OTOH, songs like vaLaiyOsai & EdhO mOgam are instantly catchy, great to listen, never lose shine even after decades, decent recording & end-output quality...IMHO!

[app_engine]

One would not want to present rAsA to a non-Thamizh exclusively as a "classical" "fusion" "cool" composer...it may be necessary to showcase him as someone strongly rooted in folk.

This is the tricky part (because of the sensitivities) but can be successfully done.

How?

Get hold of a really-good-recording of 'Asaiya kAththula thoodhu vittu' :-)

[kiru]

...
btw, this selective-rejectionO phobia, i was thinking to discuss for looong time!
Dude dude .. are you the same SKV ? I guess all of us have some strong likes/dislikes. But not liking 16 va.., annakkiLi etc is too much.
To some extent I can understand .. (but not fully :-)) Trust me, when I came to know that 'azhagE azhagu' is from the same movie as 'andhi mazhai' and not so well known , I got so mad that nowadays I dont like andhi mazhai that much :-) santhana kARRE is just ok.. iLangAthu is different .. you need to give it a listen few more times. The recording is not so good but it is a beauty. If irir123 has it in his list there must be a reason !!! Recently, my seven yr old son was singing back to some song from young cool indian MD :-) and I was thinking well that was a good composition and immediately somebody changed the channel on tv or something..I heard iLangAthu .. just like the lyrics I could feel a gentle breeze like effect ..One of the reasons I think IR also played this in Italy.
senthoorapPoovE has many star fans.. It even got a rebirth albeit a less golden one than the original. The 'namma veettu kalyanam' song from annakkILi had a freshness and innocent charm that was missing in tamil film music for a long time. Re: you mean vizhiyiLE malarthanthu ? now I wonder how old are you and whether you know tamil ? these are the kind of songs which IR introduced where he merged folk elements with western classical. this was the early efforts.. also see those innovative rhythms and rhythm changes throughout.. many of us in our teens at that time.. these were all novel (and not many new MDs are not eclipsing these sort of innovations.. but passing off rhythms bought on CDs/downloaded as new stuff in this part of the town, instead of creating the patterns themselves).

[KV]

I've tried 'introducing' Raaja to many of my non-thamizh friends and the music's been well received a fairly good number of times.
To start off, a 'safe approach' is instrumental tracks - they work like a charm i tell you! Here are a few examples:
1) Three-in-one: not a single 'dislike' so far. Extreme catchiness. Arresting yet simple beauty. Has gone on to become mobile ringtone for many of them!
2) Mood kaapi (thumbi va instrumental): a sumptuous dose of the man's melody making and arrangement prowess.
3) Kurangu arattai (mumbai xpress): especially for the 'musically inclined' folks. 'Dude, that's some brilliant basslines man!' commented a guy even before I could say a word.

Aside: last weekend while travelling in a friend's car, there was an MP3 assorted collection (ir, arr, hj, etc) playing.
Anjana anjana (vandhaan vendran): autokaaran thaman at it again; extreme pallkoosal. 'Dude, this song must get a grammy' said a guy. I did a moonjiya-sirichcha-madhiriye-vechchikara face.
Upnext, much to my relief, madhura marikkozhudhu vaasam. I immediately jumped, asking for the volume to be pumped up. My citybred cousin, in her late teens, suddenly appeared shocked. 'unakku indha maadhiri paattellaam pudikkuma? yuck!'

[app_engine]

For instrumental tracks, the HTNI main is the quintessential one!

Purists / veterans / meesicals / classicals/ youththu / teens / newbies / newage fellows / beat piriyans - ippadi all kinds of fellows were introduced with this and NOT A SINGLE ONE disliked it :-)

Some have gone praising it with superlatives while others acknowledged by simply humming the main violin melody (lAlA - lalalA - lala lala lala lala - lA lA -lala lala - lA lAAA) :-)

[irir123]

late teens citybred cousin saying to 'yuck' to 'madhura marikkozhundhu vaasam' is a common phenomenon even i have been privy to!

several years ago, while working in bangalore, one of my colleagues a city-bred gal was 'eavesdropping' as i was engaged in a discussion abt the use of strings in english films scores and my preference for john williams over other present day composers - sometime later in the day, the eavesdropping gal came over to me to ask me what my favorite song was and I played (naama thaan madurai kusumbukku per vanginavangalaachey!) 'podhuvaga yen manasu thangam' and she had this totally confused look on her face probably thinking 'how come this guy whom i heard talking abt john williams blah blah blah is listening to something ilke this ?'- and she tells me "oh idhu maadu (meaning 'cow'!!) paattu illa ? idhellaam keppiyaa ?" (note: keppiyaa and NOT keppeengala!) - later on, after she left my desk, i was humming/singing Neil Diamond's 'holly holly' and 'girl you will be a woman soon' - and the look on her face - priceless!!

[irir123]

Thanks app_engine, irir123 and kiru.

I'm still looking forward to a few more replies like Devaraagam's. :)

one more suggestion:

do play the following radio show i helped organize few years ago in georgia -

http://tinyurl.com/irmusic - this is a MP3 that can also be downloaded from -

http://dvdverdictpresents.com/webpage/dvd_verdict_560_sounds_and_sights_of_cinema_maestr o_ilayaraja_

and also it might help to give some literature / write-ups on IR's music:

http://tinyurl.com/irmusic123

http://tinyurl.com/irmusic1234 - Italy concert !!

most americans/europeans would take stuff seriously, if its accompanied by a decent writeup - coz it serves following purposes:

1. they realize outright that this is not some random run-of-the-mill bollywood music, which is what most ppl outside India think of indian film music as ! whew! its either Bollywood (meaning glitzy, glossy men and women dancing in marriage functions! - EKSI) or Pt. Ravi Shankar et al!

2. they know you are being real serious abt the music - the music is also serious stuff!

3. coz of 1 above, they know you are taking them seriously too and hence would appreciate it immensely and also take IR's music seriously!

these are all things i have observed from my past interactions

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

late teens citybred cousin saying to 'yuck' to 'madhura marikkozhundhu vaasam' is a common phenomenon even i have been privy to!!

Watch exactly at 5.25!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrumsl5O2x8

[KV]

app, HTNI didn't go well with some of the 'youths' I know here (classical music naale lighta odhungi poirvaanga).

irir, maattu paattu :lol:... almost the same effect! And thanks for the links. (btw, why 'maestro' in your intro?)

[irir123]

'Maestro' in which intro ??

[KV]

In the Sounds and Sights radio show, he says 'today we're featuring a composer called maestro ilayaraja'. indha adamozhi pazhakkam podhuvaa indian mentality me thinks. Was just wondering how a westerner (who is the target audience, in a way) would react to it.

[irir123]

i disagree - its not indian mentality - 'maestro' was given to him by John Scott and co and there is nothing wrong in using it

[KV]

It’d certainly be great to make a mention of this (and even call out that the adamozhi was given by John Scott to add credibility), but to me it feels a little weird when someone (in a serious music show like this) keeps referring to him as Maestro. Seldom would you come across Maestro John Williams or something like this, illaya? (actually I might be wrong here wrt John, but podhuvaa sonnen, just using him as an example).

[layman10]

Watch exactly at 5.25!


Reminds me of the first time I had to come to US (same bay area), I crashed to hotel bed after the first days jetlag drowsiness. I had set the alarm to some random world music radio station and woke up to Raja songs next day. Strangely, I didn't realize it for first five minutes!. Later realized someone in the local community, rent time slots and broadcasts it.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

app, HTNI didn't go well with some of the 'youths' I know here (classical music naale lighta odhungi poirvaanga).

Remember a Manager, when TiS released, in ecstasy I would talks about that to everyone i meet. Buring a discussion, I asked him "Do you like WCM" He said "I feel like listening to Cartoon Music" :shock:

[app_engine]

app, HTNI didn't go well with some of the 'youths' I know here (classical music naale lighta odhungi poirvaanga).


Possible.

What I meant was the non-TN audience who never heard about IR prior.

Never failed to click with such cases, with varied backgrounds as mentioned :-)

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

One good IR fan I know, disliked Pollaa VinaiEn from TiS due to its complexity. The song was long (20 mins :shock: ) and kinda changed its goalposts. (Of course I love that completely, like many here)

[irir123]

all said and done, you play what you sincerely/ honestly feel will appeal to the person(s) you are playing it to - and leave it to them to appreciate the same or reject it!

it has happened to me so often - after all my objective thinking is exhausted, there are certain things in music/art/cinema that only I can relate to, and perhaps share the same with some other like-minded friends - in the end, the listening pleasure is entirely personal - especially when it comes to someone like IR's music!

technicalities (see that groovy bass, that chromaticism, that ostinato portion, that counterpoint, this chord progression, here feel this melody etc etc) apart, each of us get affected/ impacted by music differently! how many can i expect to feel the same way I feel abt 'prema ledhani' or a 'kuliraadunnu maanathhu' (from 'olangal') ?!

way back during my undergrad/postgrad years, I used to find myself lost singing and then someone hears it and even without knowing tamil, appreciate the melody and request me to repeat singing the song ! this is how "devadhai ilam devi" became a big hit in my andhra college! I still remember a cricket game between our college and central university, hyderabad, - coming back to the shade during the 20 overs break - we were 6 down for 52 staring at defeat needing another 110 odd runs - all I needed was some inspiration - which came from 'kila kila mane' (coolie no.1) and 'eduta neevey' (abhinandana again!) from the local canteen - went back and scored a fluent 75 plus runs and we romped home with 2 overs to spare! I vividly recall a backfoot squaredrive and a kneesbent front foot drive through the covers! now thats what music does to me - even NOW!

do what you can and leave it to others to choose! even IR has that mindset! who are we then to judge what others should / should not like ?!

perhaps I should quote annan here - "motor amaivadhellaam avanavan seidha vinai" !

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

Well said. What appeals to one may not appeal to another. So just play what you think would appeal to the other person plus some songs which appeal to you. And be ready for disappointment. (BTW, looks like India lost one more Tendulkar to US studies :D )

[Devaraagam]

do what you can and leave it to others to choose! even IR has that mindset! who are we then to judge what others should / should not like ?!

irir123, 100% agree with you. even i have friends who is also like IR as I like IR and He did not like Thiruvasagam and ignored just like it but for me it was like a soul and lot of times i lost my sleep after listening Thiruvasagam.

IR doing his work 100% dedication but he is not worrying abt who are all like it or not. I still remeber one of his nterview in kumudam came during 1994 or 1996 time, the question was "why are you not giving good song in the past years..his reply..I am giving good songs but u did not notice it ...."

How many of us here identified his songs very lately and celebrated it.

everything, everyone will not like it.....LIKE surrounded by lot of external factors.

[irir123]

irir123,
BTW, looks like India lost one more Tendulkar to US studies :D

comedy pannatheenga sir! tendulkar range enga, namma range enga ? nanellaam college level cricket thaan - of course, padippu had to take the front seat - so one cannot have the best of every field - thavira, ippa Indiavula kannaa pinnaa talent - avinga range kooda naan kidayaadhu! cricketla aarambicchu, weight lifting, martial arts araajagamellaam 20s la sagattu menikku senjadhu - ippo regular swimmer-plus appappo cricket - ellaathukkum time factor is mukkiyam - work takes much of my time

back to IR's music - it opened my ears to world music as well!! it was first baroque era music during my undergrad years in hyderabad when I stumbled on to 'tocatto and fugue in D minor' at a roadside shop run by a 60 plus old man (an anglo-indian btw) - it was paul mauriat's version! the more i listened to it, the more i cud identity the feel that IR had often integrated into his own music - listen to the interludes of 'seer kondu vaa, venmegame' as well as 'seethakalam ithu prema kaalam' - the use of mauriat-style as well as bach-style arrangements are endlessly fascinating !!

and when ARR came on to the field, I was amongst millions who lapped up 'roja' and went gaga over it - and yet, despite the ARR wave, IR's music never ceased to amaze me! recently a friend with whom i rode in my car asked me with a funny frown on his face 'enna orey ilaiyaraaja cds aa irukku ?' - my response 'of course, why do you ask ?' - he knew better not to pursue it any further! he even asked me once 'enna pazhassi rajavukku best BGM award aame ?' - my response 'of course, what else did you expect ?' - avaru ARR fan - once he tried to get me into a debate as to ARR's prowess in the BGM department - interestingly he cudnt speak abt IR's bgm as much as I cud speak abt ARR's (i spoke how ARR's bgm scores for '127 hrs', 'roja', 'kannathil muthhamittaal' were amazing) !! I could appreciate 'masakali' from delhi 6 or the entire rockstar album - that again is how democratic IR's music has left me, I shd say!

last but not the least, I do listen to classics from the talat mehmood era, MSV era and last year or so, have become a fan of the 1970s/80s american music - wow! boston's 'more than a feeling', kansas 'carry on my wayward son' etc etc - and yet, when i listen to 'abhinandana' it sucks me into a different world! the Raaja factor is unique with no parallels!

[irir123]

dig - listen to 'acid darbari' from 127 hrs - ARR has done a mesmerizing darbari with electric guitar riffs!

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

Lovely post. Yes, if you are a true Raja fan you will end up appreciating all kinds of music

[app_engine]

What appeals to one may not appeal to another.

While that's an universal truth, I think there're also certain things that are appealing to MOST people :-) I guess the exercise being attempted in this thread is to identify such numbers from the 1000's done by IR.

While we're aware of a few hundreds that clicked very well with south Indian people in general, among those (and not necessarily among those), what are those numbers that'll have higher probability in appeal to audience who don't know the veLLai vEshti & not well-shaven man prior :-)

[kiru]

...yet, when i listen to 'abhinandana' it sucks me into a different world! the Raaja factor is unique with no parallels!

I have also wondered about this .. maybe IR gives us the right mix of melody+rhythm. I was listening to some malayalam film music by other MDs and was really enjoying the carnatic bass and then some IR songs started playing from the CD/compilation, immediately I noticed it and was attracted to it. My guess is, the chords and bass line add a rhythm to the melody without the sound of percussion affecting it. Thats probably the secret sauce.. just my guess.

[app_engine]

My guess is, the chords and bass line add a rhythm to the melody without the sound of percussion affecting it.

Were'nt these among the main things that differentiated IR during 70's from his predecessors and made him the 'pop' musician? :-)

[app_engine]

Going back to that "reco-intro-to-unknowns" topic, I think that's precisely what Balki tried to do and was successful to a great extent. (Where even Kamal & BM weren't as successful IMHO).

A form of marketing (the genius) :oops:

[app_engine]

Look at what Balki picked for north indies :

manRam vandha thenRal
kuzhaloodhum kaNNan
jotheyalli-vizhiyilE maNi vizhiyilE
ninnukkOri varNam (well, mudhi mudhi is a near equivalent)
putham puthukkAlai
thumbi vA

I guess all these are easy-picks (I mean the Balki versions that have much better recording / sounds) for intro to any newbie :-)

[app_engine]

And I would add 'sArA Eh Alam' & 'dheemi dheemi' from Siva 2006 - excellent sound quality versions again.

One is a classic from panneer pushpangaL (Anandha rAgam) and the other totally new.

Sorry to bring too many indhi songs but these have much better audio-quality for intro to "foreigners" who don't care about the language anyways...

[app_engine]

Also, Anand-Milind are kind of "me-help" guys for this purpose :lol:

However, we MUST NEVER use their versions :mad: but taking the clue, search out for great-recording-quality originals of rAsA...

-O priyA priyA (SPB version)
-rAkkammA kaiyaththattu

[app_engine]

The following five should be able to make into any such "show-case" items (good quality files ofcourse):

-enna saththam indha nEram
-iLaya nilA
-en iniya pon nilAvE (may need re-master from original tapes, like the recent one by some westerners where 'vikram vikram' was part of)
-punnagai mannan theme
-aruNa kiraNa

[app_engine]

The punnagai mannan album definitely has a great advantage of superior sound quality (IMO).

Actually, even before introducing them to people not-knowing rAsA, we must actively encourage locals to listen to these numbers on headphone / good audio systems. (Especially those HCARRFs -some even in the hub - who claim that they heard "stereo sounds" from their music systems only in the 90's. Doesn't matter if they claim it was great only because of ARR's contribution with the synth / KB / programming, but they should be made to acknowledge that "sounds" in TFM had happened already in 80's).

[irir123]

coming back to what made/makes IR's music so different/unique/special compared to his contemporaries.

year 1990 - two telugu films by the same actor/star Chiranjeevi - Konda veeti donga and kodama simham - former had IR and latter had Raj-Koti as MDs

both had tracks tailor-made for chiranjeevi's then star status - Raj-Koti did a number 'star star megastar' besides a few others that had all the signatures of Bappi-Lahiri, Laxmikant Pyarelal, Kalyanji Anandji as well as a bit of RD Burman!! one can hear all kinds of instruments, loops etc and yet the songs hardly had any impact then nor do they now

however IR's tracks comparatively were simpler and yet the orchestration / instrumentation were lush/rich with the sophistication in polyphonic percussion usage in 'shubhalekha' taken to new heights !! 'chamakku' had an outrageous foot-tapping rhythm accompanied by handclaps, while 'kolo kolamma' had some outrageously imaginative chords played this way and that with a very conspicous guitar with the trademark IR 'naiyyandi' effect! and the album was a clear winner and still is

maybe Sureshs65 can highlight the differences between these two albums with more technical inputs as to why and how IR's nos for chiranjeevi were far superior than anyone else's, particularly Raj-Koti's!

essentially, if you have seen enough cricket, its very much like the difference between a six from Mark Waugh (all grace, beauty, casual elegance and timing - as compared to Shahid Afridi (like a butcher chopping meat into pieces)!

[irir123]

astounding basslines in telugu songs of IR!
if you can get real good quality audio versions of the following, they are all killer tracks!
1. kila kila mane (coolie no.1)
2. entha entha dhooram (nirnayam) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDfZ7kCD_AY
3. mila mila (nirnayam - if you remove the stupid 'she /he loves you' chorus, this is a ripper of a track - stunning second interlude, an out-of-the-world pallavi-charanam and a lush/rich bass track! I watched this film in a brand new theatre (with brand new sound system) in secunderabad when it was released - only for IR and what an experience it was! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vniCP2ZP8VA (Nagarjuna's dancing skills fall in-between those of K Bhagyaraj and T Rajendar! so be forewarned! every now and then, nagarjuna lifts his leg not unlike a soccer (defender) player receiving a penalty corner ball to pass to the guy likely to score a goal!)
3. shubhalekha (konda veeti donga)
4. jeevithamey oka (same as above - what interludes!!) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1B4Iay9hxg (watch how chiranjeevi with his mask rides the horse exactly like someone who can't see !! and later on, you realize its a veil that wud rather fit a woman! - so play safe and close ur eyes!)

more when I remember

[irir123]

5. ninnu choosina (chinnabbayi) - found this online with some difficulty - someone has used the song as a backdrop for a wedding album!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQVpHZfFEro - this came out in 1996 (right after Kaalapani !), when IR was upgrading his compositional style with use of synth - this being a K Vishwanath film, IR gave this super mellifluous song with SPB doing ample justice in both the charanams! interludes as usual are amazing - the second one is deliberately MM Keeravanish !! and yes, listen to the solo violin that accompanies SPB's voice in the charanams!! wow!

[KV]

irir, nice songs there, but topic vittu lighta vEra trackla poittrikkInga (not that it troubles me in any way).

Pazhaya sOgangal & Kanavil midhakkum (EVK), pani vizhum malarvanam and poongattru pudhidhaanadhu were lapped up nicely by some peeps of mine (who generally listen to classic rock).

[irir123]

KV - at least a few of those songs i have mentioned are worth adding to the list of 'to-be-played-to-someone-not-used-to-IR-music' ! so i didn't go off track !

[app_engine]

Another pick that could go well with the uninformed (had great acoustic quality too in the LP era itself) :

thAmaraikkodi tharaiyil vandhadheppadee!
(awesome SPB with amazing guitar work / orch, movie-Anandhakkummi)

Warning : Don't even think about youtube-ing :lol2:

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

Why in Telugu but in any language if you compare how songs were made for super heroes you cannot find anyone who has done more justice to such super hero songs than Raja. Be it Chiranjeevi in Telugu or Rajni in Tamil. No other music director compares. I will probably write about the technical details later but for now, I give this playlist, taken only from the 'mass' songs of 'mass' telugu heroes like Chiru, Venkatesh, Balakrishna and Nagarjuna. Just see the class of the songs. Unbelievable that these guys go such songs. Definitely the inspiration came from within. Here is the youtube playlist: (50 songs here and I have titled the playlist 'marana-mass')

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUFALesrELQ&list=PLEAC3FB8E48E173FD&feature=mh_lolz

[irir123]

'marana-mass' -)))))))))))

honestly, its mind-boggling to even conceive that one man could conjure up all of this music that propelled every other tom, *ick and harry to stardom in several languages!!

comparatively, his varisu YSR cannot come up with an album that matches even 1/10th his father's virtuosity/grandeur! I used 'spotify' to listen to some of YSR's albums including 'Billa-2' - adhenna almost yellaa paatullayum andha 'joiiiing' synth voice effectu ?? oru stageukkapparam, it got on my nerves - totally irritating! when is YSR ever gonna mature as a composer of some calibre ?

btw, I listened to MM Keeravani's (known as Maragadhamani in TFM!) 'Kshana Kshanam' the album that propelled him to fame!

one song is a direct lift from some african tribal album, and another is an even more direct lift from a Paul Mauriat album !! what remained were 1-2 original tracks!

wonder why Ram gopal verma chose MMK over IR after IR gave that monster Shiva in 1989 ?!

[irir123]

saw few of those 'marana mass' videos - absolutely hilarious !! appappo cycle pump adikkara madhiri, car windhshield mela irukkara dhoosu thattara madhiri, vega vegamaa thuni thuvaikkara madhiri ippadi palavidha moves - shabash! radhika/vijayashanthi managing those moves clad in a saree - some skill indeed! and the choice of colors/design for the outfits - total freakout!!

the same chiranjeevi when handled by someone like KB is an amazing actor!

imagine IR's 'tolerance' levels watching such imaginative moves along with those of K Bhagyaraj's military drill moves, Rajini's unintentionally hilarious hipshakes ('aasai nooru vagai') !! no wonder he seeks thiruvannamalai to escape and condition his mind for further onslaughts!

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

LOL at your description of the moves. I had also written once in my blog about these 'stepsu' :) Many an excellent song has turned hilarious after being picturized.

And that's a good theory as to why Raja goes to Tiruvannamalai :) That he is still sane after seeing all the picturization of his songs itself is a great achievement

[Gregorysab]

btw, I listened to MM Keeravani's (known as Maragadhamani in TFM!) 'Kshana Kshanam' the album that propelled him to fame!

one song is a direct lift from some african tribal album, and another is an even more direct lift from a Paul Mauriat album !! what remained were 1-2 original tracks!

wonder why Ram gopal verma chose MMK over IR after IR gave that monster Shiva in 1989 ?!

Kshana Kshanam is one of the very few albums of MMK that i liked, despite those lifts! His BGM was also very good (very Raaja-sque in some scenes especially).
Coming to why he choose MMK. Apparently, MMK was RGV's original choice for Shiva, despite his personal favourite being Raaja. I guess as a new comer, he did not have confidence that he can approach Raaja. He already knew MMK and promised him that if he gets to make a film, MMK would be the composer. But when the producers of Shiva suggested Ilaiyaraaja, RGV didnt want to let go of opportunity and ditched MMK. which is why he opted for MMK for his 2nd film.
Also, having seen his films till late 90s, I have noticed that he deliberately avoided repeating the composers. He tried Raaja, MMK, Raj-Koti, Sri, few unknown composers, ARR and even R.D.Burman (for Antham). Its only from late 90s (after he tried everyone :-) ) that he started repeating composers. No idea why he wanted to deliberately choose a different composer everytime.
He wrote a very interesting post once, on how one thing led to another, for his choices of composers: http://www.idlebrain.com/news/2000march20/blog-rgv-dustbinfortunes.html - the article also reveals that Ismail Darbar, who composed music for Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam and Devdas, was a violinist in the orchestra used for the background score for Shiva! interesting!

[Stanley]

2. try to avoid tracks with horrible chorus effects (there are quite a few amazing IR songs that are spoilt by chorus)


Like 'ilamai ennum poongaatru'?

[KV]

big daddy of 'em all -
jaanguchakku jajakkuchakku jaanguchakku chaa

[irir123]

KV - + 10 to 'jaanguchakku' !

Stanley - 'ilamai enum' chorus is quite acceptable - the track has interesting chord progressions - but stuff like that will not appeal to makkals unless they are highly discerning listeners! so best bet are catchy songs first and then later on tracks with technical matter in them!

[irir123]

Sureshs65 - most of the tracks are generic ones as far as IR is concerned - one from Dharma Kshetram 'pellikku mundhu okka saari' stood out though! set on the same scale as 'attention everybody' (coolie no.1), this song has a distinctly jazzy feel especially on the piano throughout!!

how and why in the heck was IR inspired to give such a number to Balaiyyaa for a run-of-the-mill film such as this ??

I cant recall IR doing something like this in Tamil (or other languages) !!

Raaja you are such an enigma!

[kiru]

@aakarsh - Thanks for the article link. R G Verma is an artiste with personality - in one article on BGM he writes - "Unless one is an animal or a child or an unimaginative idiot one’s reaction, response and sensitivity to music will carry a sense of total certainty of one’s emotional planes. It very surely involves one’s values and also one’s deepest sense of oneself."
I will read the rest of his articles later. BTW, he does not mince words - "my movie and song bombed"... and very honest .."I got greedy .. went back on my committment and signed Rahman (instead of Ismail Darbar)".
(I thought his visuals for a song like aananda raagam in shive were too raunchy and did not have much respect. Maybe thats the way it works in the industry)

[irir123]

looks like IR has ran riot using Maya mayagowla, left, right and center in every other Telugu song from that youtube link!

[ravinat]

The topic of composition brilliance is definitely worthwhile of discussion. However, something that involves tremendous amount of intellect as well as skill in arrangement is chorus arrangement. I notice that none of the songs mentioned here touch on that part of the composition spectrum.

For example, 'Eriyile Elantha Maram' or 'Naan Porandhu Vandhadhu' are songs that show the sheer genius behind the work, be in writing the score or arranging it.

Arranging instrumental music is hard enough. Arranging choir and sweating it out is something not many composers do today. IT is many orders of magnitude harder. The two tracks I mentioned have no other equivalent anywhere in IFM.

[Gregorysab]

BTW, he does not mince words - "my movie and song bombed"... and very honest .."I got greedy .. went back on my committment and signed Rahman (instead of Ismail Darbar)".
(I thought his visuals for a song like aananda raagam in shive were too raunchy and did not have much respect. Maybe thats the way it works in the industry)

He usually doesnt mince words, even when it comes to criticizing his own films. but he admits that he is at times hypocritical. And he is also eccentric. If he wants something, be it actor or music or whatever, he will ensure that he gets it at any cost, irrespective of they/it suiting or not suiting the film. So, if he likes a certain BGM from some film and wants to use that particular piece for his new film, he WILL use it, no matter what.. he will use it even if it does not suit the situation :-) The same is the case with Saara Yeh Aalam. Apparently, thats one of his favourite raaja songs. and he totally ruined it with picturisation!

[baroque]

suresh65,

that's a suer-duper list!

COOLIE NO 1
ASHWAMEDHAM
SURYA IPS
DHARMA KSHETRAM
BOBBILI RAJA
CHALLENGE etc..

RAJA IS SMOKING HOT! :redjump::smokesmirk:
Vinatha

[irir123]

'Aalapanaa' - from my old collections!! am dumbfounded - i used to skip to the 'aavesamantha' and never listened to the rest of the album - but now listened to the whole album and oh my!

for all HCIRFs and IRFs and non-IRFs, 'Aalapanaa' is the telugu equivalent of 'kadhal oviyam'

this man is most definitely from a different planet - in evolutionary terms, he must have a brain far evolved into a kulbrickian future!! what versatility/virtuosity/prolificity combined

interestingly, the collection has a relatively mediocre ADITYA 369 which has an outrageous fusion track "Suramodamu " of classical and rock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDOCDj8xbUw)!!

[Sureshs65]

Thanks Vinatha :)

irir123: 'Alapana' is a terrific album. The famed Vamshi-Raja combination. Another classical oriented album is 'Sankeerthana'. The dir I think was Geeta Krishna, who later made 'Kokila'. 'Sankeerthana' is a also a very good album. Ofcourse you can just go and pick up any Raja-Vamsi album and there will be some funkiness in it. 'Maharishi' is an album which I recommend highly.

And 'Adiyta 369' is a super album BTW. Definitely not in 'mediocre category :D

[Gregorysab]

Aditya 369 was a very good album!

Suramodamu - a brilliant Kalyani-hamsanandi that ventures into rock & roll towards the end.
raasaleela vela - what a melodious song. the opening piece itself is a delight.
Jaanavule - A throwback to early 60s mythological or folklore based films' songs.
Chilipi yaatralo - Raaja imagined in 1991 itself, that future music will be all with artificially-altered-voices and raw beats. He gives exactly that, but in his own style.
Centurylu kotte - ok type song, with very contextual lyrics actually. Nice good music pieces.


And Aalapana is probably the best (and only) 'classical' album in Vamsy-Raaja combo. All other albums are different. Sankeerthana was another good album.

[app_engine]

The dir I think was Geeta Krishna, who later made 'Kokila'. 'Sankeerthana' is a also a very good album.

I noticed during my recent watch that he is credited as "assistant director" for salangai oli (sAgara sangamam) :-)

Now I understand how he got that 'niRam piriththuppArththEn' for TIME :-)

[app_engine]

dig


my recent watch

I've posted an observation here :
http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9870-Film-Documentary-Recently-watched-amp-worthy-of-some-discussion&p=908461&viewfull=1#post908461

end-dig

[baroque]

yeah..aditya369 has the old world charm composition JAANAVULEY....... - :musicsmile: tamil's PARIJADHA POOVEY....


April vidudala, ladies tailor, chettukinda pleader are all fantastic music albums from Vamsi-Ilayaraja!http://www.mayyam.com/talk/images/smilies/musicsmile.gif

[Sureshs65]

app,

Geeta Krishna was an assistant to K.Vishwanath. His 'Sankeertana' was classical based. Raja is supposed to have told him that it makes no sense to imitate his 'gurunathar' and he must evolve a style of his own. So he did 'Kokila' which I think was thriller type of work. I am not sure about 'Time' but that surely was not classical based. I think that movie too was tension based. At least to the audience.

[app_engine]

I am not sure about 'Time' but that surely was not classical based. I think that movie too was tension based. At least to the audience.

:rotfl:

Fortunately, I've been able to avoid TIME (& most movies with PD in the lead role) :-)

nanRi for the info on Geeta Krishna, Sureshji!