The Antiquity of the Tamil - Chera. Chola and Paandiyan kingdoms of Southern India

[virarajendra]

Author - Virarajendra

The Antiquity of the Tamil - Chera, Chola and Paandiyan kingdoms of South India

Historically from the ancient times there existed in South India, three main Tamil Kingdoms known as the Chera Naadu, Chola Naadu, and Paandiya Naadu (Naadu=Country), and were collectively known as "Muth Thamil Naadu" (three Tamil Countries).

Though we know that these Tamil Countries existed from ancient times, to what period does the term "ancient" refer to ???

As far as it can be seen many Scholars from India say the great Epics - the Sanskrit Ramaayana of sage Vaalmiki and the Sanskrit Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa dates to more that 12,012 years ago and among the oldest Literatures of India.

If we accept the conclusions of these Scholars of the modern period, then we are also compelled to accept the fact that the three great Tamil kingdoms of then Tamil Nadu - namely the Chera, Chola & Paandiya Naadus are equally old as these two great Epics of India. Their antiquity in the Indian History too can be positively traced back beyond 10,000 years B.C., as these three Tamil - dynasties and their kingdoms are mentioned in both the original Sanskrit Epics - the Raamaayana of sage Vaalmiki & Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa as existing during the period of their composition.

If these Scholars say the antiquity of the Tamil - Chera, Chola and Paandiyan kingdoms of South India are not so old as over 12,012 years, then the fact remains that these two original Sanskrit Epics - the Ramaayana of sage Vaalmiki and the Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa too cannot be that old.

Healthy and illuminating discussions are welcome.

[bis_mala]

Author - Virarajendra

The Antiquity of the Tamil - Chera, Chola and Paandiyan kingdoms of South India

Historically ...................three Tamil Countries).


As far as it can be seen many Scholars from India say the great Epics - the Sanskrit Ramaayana of sage Vaalmiki and the Sanskrit Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa dates to more that 12,012 years ago and among the oldest Literatures of India.

If we accept the conclusions of these Scholars of the modern period, then we are also compelled to accept the fact that the three great Tamil kingdoms of then Tamil Nadu - namely the Chera, Chola & Paandiya Naadus are equally old as these two great Epics of India. Their antiquity in the Indian History too can be positively traced back beyond 10,000 years ago, as these three Tamil - dynasties and their kingdoms are mentioned in both the original Sanskrit Epics - the Raamaayana of sage Vaalmiki & Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa as existing during the period of their composition.

If these Scholars say the antiquity of the Tamil - Chera, Chola and Paandiyan kingdoms of South India are not so old as over 12,012 years, then the fact remains that these two original Sanskrit Epics - the Ramaayana of sage Vaalmiki and the Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa too cannot be that old.

Healthy and illuminating discussions are welcome.


Sound logic Mr V., Tamil should be older than these epics since the epics mentioned the dynasties, which were Tamil dynasties.

But then the epics were Sanskrit books. Perhaps the scholars you mentioned thought the dynasties were Sanskrit speaking ones. Many of them held that Sans was the first language of the world. Other tongues evolved later. So every one in the remotely ancient world spoke only Sanskrit.

What would you say to that?

Notes: 1. You may also see this website: http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-mother-sanskrit-theory.html#.T9g-m4Fpq_J. Readers may wish to counter herein the statements in the website.

2. அகத்தியமுனியும் தொல்காப்பியரும் பிராமணர்கள் என்றும், அல்லர் என்றும் இரு கருத்துகளுண்டு. பிராமணராயின், அவர்கள் சந்தச மொழி (பின் சமஸ்கிருதம் ஆனதென்பர்) அறிந்திருந்த அறிஞர் போலும். அவர்கள் சந்தச மொழி பேசியதால், சேர சோழ பாண்டியரும் ஏன் சந்தசம் பேசியிருக்கக்கூடாது. இதுகாலை நாம் பலமொழி அறிந்திருப்பதுபோல், அவர்களும் அறிந்திருக்கலாமல்லவா? அங்ஙனமாயின் தமிழும் சந்தசமும் பலகாலம் ஒருங்கு வழங்கின எனலாமே!

3. பாணினி பிராமணர் அல்லர் போலும். பாண், பாணர், என்னும் சொற்கள் இசையையும் இசைவகுப்பினரையும் குறிக்கும். பாணினி - இசைஞர் வழிவந்தவர். பாண் > பாணினி; பாடு> பாடினி. (காக்கைபாடினியார் என்னும் இலக்கண ஆசிரியர்.) கற்றறிந்த பாணர்வகுப்பில் வந்த ஒருவராலேயே சந்தச இலக்கணம் இயற்றப்பட்டதென்க.


பாணினியைப் பற்றி நாமறிந்தவை யாவும் சொல்லாய்வு அடிப்படையில் அறிந்தவையே. உதாரணம்: யவனம் என்ற சொல்லும் பிறவும். அதுபோல் இங்கும் சொல் அடிப்படையில்தான் பாணினி பற்றிக் கூறப்படுகிறது. அவர் வாழ்ந்த காலம், இடம் யாவும் ஊகிக்கப்படுவனவாகும்.

இவற்றையெல்லாம் ஒட்டி எழுதினாலும் வெட்டி எழுதினாலும் எமக்கு மகிழ்ச்சிதான்.

ஆக தமிழின் நிலை யாது?

[virarajendra]

M/s Sivamaalaa with reference to what you have presumed, I wish to advice that the modern Scholars have no room 'whatsoever' to think that the Chera, Chola and Paandiya kings were Sanskrit speaking dynasties. If they do so then the fact remains that they are in-complete in their historical knowledge of India, and need to undergo further research studies on the the actual History of South India, and a critical study of the ancient Tamil literary documents we have today.

During the British Colonial Period there remained very less Historical Scholars in South India to highlight the history of their region, and as a result the Historical Scholars of North India wrote the Indian History portraying to the masses that the early Indian History means that it was the History of Mauriyas, Guptas and Sathavaahanas of North India with Vedic and Sanskrit background, and the medieval Indian History of India means that it was the history of the Muslim kingdoms also of North India with Islamic background. They hardly took any interest in the deep study of the other great dynasties of South India.

So what I suggest to the modern Scholars of India that they should not try to interpret the History of India, based purly on the writings of the old out-dated Historical Studies of the British Colonial period and post-Colonial period Scholars, but take much interest also in the study of the new findings of the Historians of the South India, and they themselves venture into the deep original research study of the History of these South Indian dynasties.

Also I am of the strong view that the History of India has to be completely re-written in the light of many new findings of the History of South Indian dynasties in the recent past, to make the modern Historical Scholars and new Historical Students be aware that - true History of India is not simply the History of North India as wrongly portrayed by the Colonial and Post-Colonial period Scholars, but is a combination of the Histories of "all dynasties" of North, Central & South India.

Also it is high time the Indian Historical Scholars of modern age India got rid of the false notions that prevailed in India up to the recent past, that all languages of India had its roots from Sanskrit and that all religions in India had their roots from Vedic religion, which can be disproved with evidence as a false bogey spread by irresponsible Scholars of the British Colonial period and post Colonial period of India.

Further it can be positively proved with evidences that the Tamil Language and Tamil Dynasties of South India are older than the two great Sanskrit Epics - namely the Raamaayana of sage Vaalmiki and the Mahaabharatha of sage Viyaasa.

[bis_mala]

Mr V,

Thanks a lot for the effort you have put in.
BTW, Has any scholar written on what languages were in use in their realms at any point of time during the long reign of the three dynasties in question?
Grateful for references if available.
(If too troublesome to get it, then please ignore this question.)

[virarajendra]

M/s Sivamaalaa

The Languages that were used in the realms of the Mauriyas, Gupta, and Sathavaahanaas are as follows:

(1) Mauriya - Prakrit, Sanskrit, Paali, Greek & Aramic
Arathasastra a treatise on political administration used by the Mauriyas was in Sanskrit.
With the presense of Jainism during the period of early Mauriya kings too Prakrit & Sanskrit flourished.
With the coming of Buddhism to Mauriya Empire Paali too was well known.
With their association with the Greeks and Westerners (after Alexander the great's invasion of North-West India) of
the contemporary period Greek & Aramic too were known.
The Asokan Inscriptions were in Prakrit, Pali, Greek & Aramic

(2) Gupta - Sanskrit
Sanskrit flourished in a big way during the period of Gupta dynasty.
Most of the Sanskrit Puraanas we have today were composed during the period of Guptas. Many of them also list the geneology of the Mauriya kings - further confirming the period of these Puraanas as after the end of the Mauriya dynasty. Vedism, and Saivaism & Vaishnavaism "as developed in North India" flourished during the Gupta period. It is after this period the Pallava kings brought in the religious practices as prevailed in the Gupta kingdom to Tamil Nadu. Even the Sanskrit Puraanas that were composed during the Gupta period were introduced and made known to Tamil Nadu only during the period rule of Pallavas.

(3) Sathavaahana - Prakrit, Sanskrit, Telungu
During the period of Sathavaahanaas the Prakrit and Sanskrit were used. It is also interesting to note one of the
Sathavahana king namly Sathakarni - (Nootruvar Kannar as per Silappathikaaram) had legend in Tamil on
the reverse side of his coin. Sathavaahanaas are not mentioned in any historical documents as "Andhras or as those who professed the Telungu language". However as they captured and ruled most part of the Andhra region of that period, they would have also known and spoken Telungu.

[bis_mala]

M/s Sivamaalaa

The Languages that were used in the realms .............................of his coin.

nanRi, nanRi.