Dharun Ravi Trial - The Myth and The Facts

[Neel D]

Dharun Ravi Trial - The Myth and The Facts


In September of 2010 two Rutgers University freshman students Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei secretly recorded a sexual encounter between another freshman student Tyler Clementi and another man. Tyler Clementi was Dharun's roommate at the dormitory. Then the recording was posted on the internet for the whole world to see. Tyler who was not out as gay was humiliated by the sex tape that everybody saw and took his own life by jumping off the George Washington bridge.

The above was the narrative that was spread by the media and the LGBT community and was believed to be true by the American public for nearly a year and a half.

And then came the article written by Ian Parker in the New Yorker magazine on February 6, 2012. This article told the real story. Most of the real story. And the rest of the facts have come out since, trickling little at a time. Many articles and editorials have now been written on this case. You have to read a lot of them to find out the facts. Finding the truth is never easy. But spreading a simplistic story about Good Vs Evil is very easy.

Dharun was slapped with 15 counts of criminal charges by the State of New Jersey and it contained 35 sub-counts of criminal charges. Charges included invasion of privacy, tampering with evidence, witness tampering and biggest of all the bias intimidation charge which is a hate crime and has very harsh punishment. The jury convicted him on all 15 main counts including the hate crime charge and acquitted him on some sub-counts. Sentencing is scheduled for May 21, 2012. The judge can sentence Dharun for up to 10 years in prison followed by an automatic deportation to India. Dharun was 18 at the time of the incident and he is now 20 years old. The LGBT rights movement is not satisfied with just the convictions. They want to see Dharun get a harsh punishment. So they are still out campaigning for it with more new lies.

To find out the facts of this case I have provided links to some very good articles, in my opinion. Please read them and find out for yourself. The New Yorker article is a must-read and should be read first.


The New Yorker article by Ian Parker - The Story of a Suicide
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker

Burden of Proof, Analysis by Chris Cuomo, ABC News
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-trial-post-verdict-analysis-perilous-path-justice/story?id=15952064#.T293mdWEnBQ

Mark DiIonno, Star-Ledger Columnist interviews Dharun after the verdict
http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2012/03/exclusive_interview_dharun_rav.html

Mark DiIonno, Star-Ledger Columnist on why Ravi did not take the plea deal
http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2012/03/di_ionno_in_wake_of_conviction.html

Mark DiIonno, Star-Ledger Columnist on the muddled law
http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2012/03/di_ionno_muddled_legislation_e.html

Star-Ledger Column by John Farmer Jr., Dean of Rutgers School of Law-Newark
http://blog.nj.com/njv_guest_blog/2012/03/dharun_ravi_trial_shows_viral.html

The New York Times Op-Ed by Emily Bazelon
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/opinion/make-the-punishment-fit-the-cyber-crime.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

A hateless hate crime - Jacob Sullum for Reason Magazine
http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/21/a-hateless-hate-crime

Punishing people for others' suicide (Techdirt.com)
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120319/04115818155/lori-drew-to-dharun-ravi-punishing-people-based-others-suicides-is-mistake.shtml

CNN Op-Ed by Paul Butler
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/17/opinion/butler-rutgers-spying/index.html?iref=allsearch

The Tyler Clementi and Dharun Ravi we will never know - Richard Kim for The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/blog/166902/tyler-clementi-and-dharun-ravi-we-will-never-know

[venkkiram]

I signed the petition to favor Dharun Ravi!

[Dilbert]

I signed the petition to favor Dharun Ravi!

why? because this guy was another cunning Indian who wants to outsmart the system by not taking plea bargain because his lawyer said so than anything else??

He is another Casey Anthony ! hope this time around justice is served ! He made a F*ed up decision of spying on someone..which became the ONE OF THE REASON for someone's life.
He better pays for it.

[NOV]

Its a prank. Not a crime.

I am wondering what led Clementi to suicide. Logic tells it cannot be Ravi because Clementi invited his friend a second time. Not something a fearful guy would do.
What was in the last letter he wrote? Why wasnt it publicised?

I am deducing that Clementi was led to suicide because of something that happened between him and his lover OR because of his mother's rejection.

Media, parents, friends are all eager for a finger to point and Ravi is the softest target.
Ravi is a &&^%$ idiot, but I dont think he is the one who drove Clementi to his suicide.

[venkkiram]

why? because this guy was another cunning Indian who wants to outsmart the system by not taking plea bargain because his lawyer said so than anything else??

He is another Casey Anthony ! hope this time around justice is served ! He made a F*ed up decision of spying on someone..which became the ONE OF THE REASON for someone's life.
He better pays for it.

I felt whatever happened for Ravi so far after that incident was itself a punishment for this act. And that's more than enough! Show some mercy!

[Dilbert]

Its a prank. Not a crime.

I am wondering what led Clementi to suicide. Logic tells it cannot be Ravi because Clementi invited his friend a second time. Not something a fearful guy would do.
What was in the last letter he wrote? Why wasnt it publicised?

I am deducing that Clementi was led to suicide because of something that happened between him and his lover OR because of his mother's rejection.

Media, parents, friends are all eager for a finger to point and Ravi is the softest target.
Ravi is a &&^%$ idiot, but I dont think he is the one who drove Clementi to his suicide.

Its difficult for people to understand this is whole student culture in america, unless you lived through it. As per me he has to pay this price. Liberal media is swinging this story other way around.. just like they did for casey anthony lets see..whether this gamble pays off..

[Dilbert]

This case takes bullying culture to whole new level. In some case like this justice needs to be served in order for others who have similar intent from not indulging in such act.

[NOV]

asking a 18 year old to spend years in prison for a stupid prank is inhumane.
cloaking it under american culture is even worse.
what more when there are more questions than answers.

[Neel D]

Dilbert,
In what way is liberal media swinging this story?

[Dilbert]

Dilbert,
In what way is liberal media swinging this story?
did you watch bill maher show last week?
did you watch the coverage on MSNBC of this case??

[Dilbert]

asking a 18 year old to spend years in prison for a stupid prank is inhumane.
cloaking it under american culture is even worse.
what more when there are more questions than answers.

As I said nov , its hard to understand how things work in civilized society compare to a third world society.
stupid prank ?? lets say for argument sake, he spied on a female instead of this poor (18year old kid) who ended his life in shame over a stupid act he performed with his lover in private was made public?
you guys will be arguing in the same fashion ? If you guys say yes. I rest my case.

[NOV]

stop your condescending view.. I don't live in a third world society. 8-)
and even those who live in such a society need not be less intelligent than many in the so called first world countries.

[Neel D]

did you watch bill maher show last week?
did you watch the coverage on MSNBC of this case??

No, I didn't. How did they swing it?

[Dilbert]

stop your condescending view.. I don't live in a third world society. 8-)
and even those who live in such a society need not be less intelligent than many in the so called first world countries.

again you mis-understood my point ! living in a third world .. is not a bad thing. infact I myself was born in a third world country (india). I have traveled / worked in more than 1/2 dozen countries.
I was referring to the tolerance level for these kind of cases in third world countries are higher than that of a developed countries. No pun intended I am sure you know me by now comeon give me some credit I say :)

[Dilbert]

No, I didn't. How did they swing it?

just like what you guys are arguing here.

[scorpio]

I signed the petition to favor Dharun Ravi!

Link to the petition pls.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Its a prank. Not a crime.

I am wondering what led Clementi to suicide. Logic tells it cannot be Ravi because Clementi invited his friend a second time. Not something a fearful guy would do.
What was in the last letter he wrote? Why wasnt it publicised?

I am deducing that Clementi was led to suicide because of something that happened between him and his lover OR because of his mother's rejection.

Media, parents, friends are all eager for a finger to point and Ravi is the softest target.
Ravi is a &&^%$ idiot, but I dont think he is the one who drove Clementi to his suicide.

Pranks condoned do have the potential to turn into crimes!Nip in the bud is the proverb! Any number of 'pranks' we come to hear today are just beastly perversions! Esp. in college campuses!

[pavalamani pragasam]

Its difficult for people to understand this is whole student culture in america, unless you lived through it. As per me he has to pay this price. Liberal media is swinging this story other way around.. just like they did for casey anthony lets see..whether this gamble pays off..
Yes, our elders had the habit of shooting one crow and hanging it above 'meat vadagam' hung in the sun, to scare away other crows which come to devour the drying meat pieces.
Fear rules better, maintains order better than dear words! All down the history of human civilisation. I shudder to think of student culture in America. I shed tears of blood to see the mad pursuit of the American dream by the young generation. The freedom preached is as damaging to the growing kids as unprotected saplings exposed to predating herbivores. What is freedom? How free is anyone to do anything? Where are the strings of moral responsibility? When they are strong the offspring's happy growth as a good, productive, accountable individual is guaranteed.

[pavalamani pragasam]

again you mis-understood my point ! living in a third world .. is not a bad thing. infact I myself was born in a third world country (india). I have traveled / worked in more than 1/2 dozen countries.
I was referring to the tolerance level for these kind of cases in third world countries are higher than that of a developed countries. No pun intended I am sure you know me by now comeon give me some credit I say :)
Very well said. But with globalisation mindsets, trends are losing differences in 1st, 2nd, 3rd worlds. Aping only the ugly aspects is easy and fast! Present parenting concepts are very poor and shortsighted. Too lenient! Spare the rod and spoil the child. With all the wonderful, rich opportunities given to the kids we have no dearth of whiz kids, so brilliant, so remarkably intelligent. But what is the use of having too many spoilt brats wrecking the total health of an aspiring society?

[venkkiram]

Link to the petition pls.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/address-fact-media-driving-justice-system%E2%80%99s-decisions-18-year-old-rutgers-student-dharun-ravi-not/jqlNR9lP?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

If they can collect more than 25000 signatures before mid-April, then the White House will respond to the petition. (You just need to give your name and email address at the white house website to create an a/c first).

[NOV]

Thanks Venkkiram; I have signed and will spread the link.

I always believe that the punishment must befit the crime/offense, what more when the evidences are not clear.
A good-hearted person will never be blood-thirsty.

[hamid]

Nov,

Avan senjathu ethuvume thappillainu solriingala? He doesnt deserve to get any punishment?????

[NOV]

Avan senjathu ethuvume thappillainu solriingala? He doesnt deserve to get any punishment?????I did not say that....


Its a prank. Not a crime.

I am wondering what led Clementi to suicide. Logic tells it cannot be Ravi because Clementi invited his friend a second time. Not something a fearful guy would do.
What was in the last letter he wrote? Why wasnt it publicised?

I am deducing that Clementi was led to suicide because of something that happened between him and his lover OR because of his mother's rejection.

Media, parents, friends are all eager for a finger to point and Ravi is the softest target.
Ravi is a &&^%$ idiot, but I dont think he is the one who drove Clementi to his suicide.

What he did was certainly wrong and he deserves to be punished. But 10 years in prison is too much!

Also all doubts must be cleared before implicating him on Clementi's suicide.
I am sure that if not for the suicide, there wouldn't have been a case, much less calls for punishment. At most Clementi would have shifted to a different room and would have moved on.
But I am very clear in saying that what Ravi did was wrong; no two ways about it.

[hamid]

I did not say that....



What he did was certainly wrong and he deserves to be punished. But 10 years in prison is too much!

Also all doubts must be cleared before implicating him on Clementi's suicide.
I am sure that if not for the suicide, there wouldn't have been a case, much less calls for punishment. At most Clementi would have shifted to a different room and would have moved on.
But I am very clear in saying that what Ravi did was wrong; no two ways about it.

Yes.. What Ravi did was wrong nd it deserves to be punished.. 10 years is the max he can get... but what should also be looked into is he denied for a deal twice.. First the deal was for 3-5 years imprisonment and next was no imprisonment with only some 300 hours of community service.. why did he deny that? He shd have accepted that right? even if he has accepted that is a lesser punishmet only...

And he/his lawyer claims he is innocent and thats why they didnt accept the deal.. this after twice trying to watch the act trhough webcam, once arranging and calling all his friends for a live-show, tweeted about this all over and tried to delete /tamper the evidences, asking his friend not to tell the truth to police etc..Come on Nov.. he deserves to be punished..

[pavalamani pragasam]

Thanks Venkkiram; I have signed and will spread the link.

I always believe that the punishment must befit the crime/offense, what more when the evidences are not clear.
A good-hearted person will never be blood-thirsty.

Thanks, NOV!

[Punnaimaran]

Even if Clementi hadn't commit suicide, this guy deserves a very strong punishment. Knowing very well the sexual preferences of his room-mate, he had invaded his privacy and worse, discussed it in public. Just because the victim happens to be gay, it can't be considered a teenagers prank.

Will any of those supporting him dismiss this incident as just a prank, if the same had happened in his/her sister's room?

[NOV]

Just curious, who is supporting him? :think:

[Dilbert]

Just curious, who is supporting him? :think:

who else , Nov , Vennkiram and likes. :) As hamid bhai pointed out , he is getting a slap on his wrist with just 10years.

[Dilbert]

Very well said. But with globalisation mindsets, trends are losing differences in 1st, 2nd, 3rd worlds. Aping only the ugly aspects is easy and fast! Present parenting concepts are very poor and shortsighted. Too lenient! Spare the rod and spoil the child. With all the wonderful, rich opportunities given to the kids we have no dearth of whiz kids, so brilliant, so remarkably intelligent. But what is the use of having too many spoilt brats wrecking the total health of an aspiring society?

Mam , just to clarify Third world means where majority live below the poverty line, hence social policies are designed keeping the local culture in mind rather than moral rules in some cases) example in America or in most developed country .. you can prosecute someone based on a " Verbal Agreement" Can we do this in India or Afganistan or Pakistan ??

[Neel D]

Here is a link to a segment from Bill Maher show that Dilbert mentioned. The guest with a British accent, Andrew Sullivan, is gay.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoNBx6S2P7g

[Neel D]

hamid,

Mark DiIonno, Star-Ledger Columnist on Why Ravi Did Not Take The Plea Deal
http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2012/03/di_ionno_in_wake_of_conviction.html

[NOV]

"He was stupid, he was a mean kid. But I don't think you put people in jail especially kids who do stupid things, for being mean."

- what a third-world mentality!

[Neel D]

ABC News' Chris Cuomo interviews Dharun Ravi (video)
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/2020-031712-15991953

[NOV]

editorial piece....


What Dharun Ravi did was creepy and childish. He used a webcam to spy on his roommate, Tyler Clementi, kissing another man in their dorm at Rutgers. He invited other students to watch, and wrote about it on his Twitter feed. He was a geeky freshman trying to show off.

But that’s not enough to put him behind bars, in the company of rapists, muggers and killers — as allowed under the state’s sloppy hate crimes law. We hope the judge makes the exceptional call not to give him jail time — a decision that’s within his power.

Ravi wasn’t charged in Clementi’s death, though the gay student’s suicide was what poured gasoline on this fire. We’ll never know why Clementi jumped off the George Washington Bridge, so it’s unfair to pin that on Ravi.


Bottom line...


This case shows the danger of having such a broad statute. Legislators need to rethink this law, and tailor the punishments to fit the severity of the crime and the clarity of the threat.\\

http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2012/03/dharun_ravi_doesnt_deserve_pri.html

[NOV]

ABC News' Chris Cuomo interviews Dharun Ravi (video)
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/2020-031712-15991953

You appear to be outside the United States or its territories. Due to international rights agreements, we only offer this video to viewers located within the United States and its territories.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Mam , just to clarify Third world means where majority live below the poverty line, hence social policies are designed keeping the local culture in mind rather than moral rules in some cases) example in America or in most developed country .. you can prosecute someone based on a " Verbal Agreement" Can we do this in India or Afganistan or Pakistan ??


Thanks, Dilbert!
Poverty may put India under third world country category. But India is first in many ways, let me declare proudly! Mind you, I didn't say 'was first' but 'is first' and it is my sincere desire to see it continuing so!A shame that the likes of Kushboo should be able to point a finger at our mammoth population's herculean struggle against the decadent trends creeping in!

[pavalamani pragasam]

"He was stupid, he was a mean kid. But I don't think you put people in jail especially kids who do stupid things, for being mean."

- what a third-world mentality!
NOV!!!!!!!
The third world's 'mentality' is all that is known to you, not its traditions, customs and responsibilities! We have our own strategies for running our lives on decent, happy, healthy lines. How old is a kid in our parlance? At 18 a male child is fully equipped to take familial responsibilities- expected to, not in the remote days of my grandparents BUT TILL TODAY in many classes and regions of our country.

[Dilbert]

You appear to be outside the United States or its territories. Due to international rights agreements, we only offer this video to viewers located within the United States and its territories.

Good thank god !! Still Liberal USHA media doesn't have a reach beyond certain boundries .. just to sum up my discussion here, it will set a very dangerous precedent if he is acquitted for all future bullying cases.
Gosh blood boils.. when I look at this video how cheap sometimes this media gets .. its his word against a dead guy's word now and thats the best we can do?? basically he is saying he did everything he did with intention of just having fun on social media

Nov & others you guys still didn't answer my question , Will you argue in the same fashion if it was a female who died instead of a gay boy?

[rajraj]

venkkiram,
That petition won't have any effect on the sentence. Obviously you have not understood how the system works here. The Executive branch(White House) does not interfere with the judiciary. This is not India where the Chief Minister threatens and bribes to get off facing justice. A few months back some Indians tried that (appealing to Obama,Clinton and others) to let them off the hook in tax evasion- not reporting foreign bank accounts to the IRS. HSBC was the culprit in encouraging such accounts. Nothing happened. The White House,Clinton and others let the law take its course. That is how it should be. You should also know how president Nixon was forced out for his men breaking into Democrats campaign office. You should also know how three Illinois governors were sentenced to jail for wrong doing. The governors did not interfere with the judiciary. They appeared in courts without resorting to postponement as one lady did in Tamilnadu. The last governor to be sentenced asked for $50K to appointing a replecement for Obama in the senate. In India ministers pilfer millions of dollars and are yet to be tried in the court. In the US nobody is above the law. In India you are above the law if you have money and power. Of late I am seeing more criminal activites in the NRI community. Several physicians have been caught cheating Medicare and have been punished. These are physicians earning well. Yet, greed has blinded them into committing fraud.

Simply put, a number of NRIs want American dollars and not American laws and values. Sad! :(




https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/address-fact-media-driving-justice-system%E2%80%99s-decisions-18-year-old-rutgers-student-dharun-ravi-not/jqlNR9lP?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

If they can collect more than 25000 signatures before mid-April, then the White House will respond to the petition. (You just need to give your name and email address at the white house website to create an a/c first).

[Neel D]

You appear to be outside the United States or its territories. Due to international rights agreements, we only offer this video to viewers located within the United States and its territories.

NOV,
If I find a link to the transcript I will post it.

[Neel D]

Dilbert,

It was the same liberal media (in cahoots with LGBT rights groups) that spread the false narrative for a year and a half and demanded Dharun's head. It is not the conservative media that worked, ever, with the LGBT rights groups.

[Dilbert]

Dilbert,

It was the same liberal media (in cahoots with LGBT rights groups) that spread the false narrative for a year and a half and demanded Dharun's head. It is not the conservative media that worked, ever, with the LGBT rights groups.

so whats your point , we have to follow whichever way ..liberal media swings?

[Neel D]

No. Just pointing out that the liberal media, at least some of them, have been on both sides. Destroying Dharun being one side and defending Dharun being the other.

[Neel D]

NOV,
Maybe this video will work... Mark DiIonno on his interview with Dharun Ravi.

http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2012/03/video_star-ledgers_mark_di_ion.html

[NOV]

Thanks Neel.
Pls let us know of further developments.

[Punnaimaran]

Just curious, who is supporting him? :think:

If signing a petition in favour of a person means that the signatory does not support him, I rest my case.

Also I would like your opinion on my other query.
Will any of those supporting him (or those who) dismiss this incident as just a prank, if the same had happened in his/her sister's room?

[NOV]

Is there a comprehension problem?
Pls read all my earlier posts.

[Neel D]

Adam Carolla goes off on the liberal media

http://www.black-and-right.com/2012/03/29/the-br-thursday-matinee-3/

(Language Warning)

[Dilbert]

Adam Carolla goes off on the liberal media

http://www.black-and-right.com/2012/03/29/the-br-thursday-matinee-3/

(Language Warning)

wow out of all people Adam carolla a nut job is passing verdict about this case great who is next rush limbaugh???

" This is the guy , who said stuff like these...

Carolla has occasionally stirred up controversy due to sweeping generalizations he sometimes makes during unscripted broadcasts, the more notorious being about specific ethnic groups or women. In late 2003, Carolla stated on the air during Loveline that Hawaiians are "dumb." Carolla further elaborated that Hawaiians are "stupid," "in-bred," "retarded" people who are among the "dumbest people we have." These comments were met with anger in Hawaii, and resulted in the loss of radio affiliates for Loveline there.[52]

On the April 4, 2010 episode of The Adam Carolla Show, Carolla referred to Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao as being illiterate, having brain damage, and being someone who prays to chicken bones.[53] Carolla said of the Philippines, where Pacquiao makes his home, "They got this and sex tours, that's all they have over there. Get your shit together Philippines. Jesus Christ. I mean, again, it's fine to be proud of your countrymen. But that's it? That's all you got?"[54] Filipino leaders, including the office of President Gloria Arroyo, responded to the incident.[53][54] Carolla later apologized via Twitter, saying, "Read your comments. Sorry if I offended many of you. I don't preplan my commentary. I try to be provocative [and] funny but I crossed the line and I'm sorry."[55] Carolla received death threats over the incident.[56]

In August 2011, Carolla attracted the ire of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation after a podcast in which, referring to transgenderedpeople, he asked, "When did we start giving a shit about these people?" The segment was in response to a proposed initiative to have the puppet characters Bert and Ernie, from the children's television show Sesame Street, enter into a "gay marriage." He went on to say that the LGBTmoniker ought to be replaced with "YUCK," and that LGBT activists ought to "shut up," and that they are "ruining [his] life."[57] The GLAAD organization also referred to previous offensive remarks by Carolla, including an assertion that, "all things being equal," heterosexual parents are better than homosexual parents. Carolla responded to GLAAD via TMZ.com, stating, "I'm sorry my comments were hurtful. I'm a comedian, not a politician."[58][59][60] GLAAD responded by identifying Carolla's apology as "empty."[61]



He is Sh*ty comedian wanting attention.. nothing more..

[Neel D]

So what? He has the right to his opinion whether you find them offensive or not. As your wikipedia excerpt also shows, he had the integrity to apologize after the event. And he has the integrity not to manufacture lies and fabricate stories like the liberal media did.

All comedians, artistes and performers seek attention. What is wrong with that? Their livelihood depends on it. Adam Carolla cohosted a talk show about love, sex, dating and relationships of the youth back in the 90s on MTV. The show was very popular among college kids and young adults. Carolla still is a well known figure in American popular culture and has certainly earned the right to talk about college kids and college life.

I could not find a clip of Rush Limbaugh's opinion on Dharun Ravi trial. When I do I will post it.

[Dilbert]

So what? He has the right to his opinion whether you find them offensive or not. As your wikipedia excerpt also shows, he had the integrity to apologize after the event. And he has the integrity not to manufacture lies and fabricate stories like the liberal media did.

All comedians, artistes and performers seek attention. What is wrong with that? Their livelihood depends on it. Adam Carolla cohosted a talk show about love, sex, dating and relationships of the youth back in the 90s on MTV. The show was very popular among college kids and young adults. Carolla still is a well known figure in American popular culture and has certainly earned the right to talk about college kids and college life.
I could not find a clip of Rush Limbaugh's opinion on Dharun Ravi trial. When I do I will post it.

good joke friend.. He is a nobody , you are giving him more credit , than what he deserves. Anyway I don't want to divert the attention from actual topic.. Pl continue your service. !

[Neel D]

Here is a good article, written last year, that stays objective for the most part even though the writer Riese appears to be a gay activist.

The Last Days of Gay Rutgers Student Tyler Clementi: New Questions, Some Answers (http://www.autostraddle.com/the-last-days-of-gay-rutgers-student-tyler-clementi-new-questions-some-answers-105312/)

[Dilbert]

all of us have gone through freshmen year atleast once, there is a fine line which you can't cross. this guy did cross that line and he tried covering it up with sheer arrogance , but when sh*t hit the fan , he ran and played "I am true and innocent guy"

Lets see for the all money he has paid his attorney , what he gets in return.

[Neel D]

The statement issued by the Clementis gives the impression that they are placing all of the blame on Dharun Ravi. The jury essentially placed all the blame on Dharun Ravi as well. It was reported that MB was questioned and cleared after Tyler Clementi's death. But MB was the only person with a face that Tyler Clementi interacted with during his last week of life. Tyler spent at least three nigths of intimate time with MB and probably more time online or on the phone. MB was basically a stranger, much older than Tyler, and did not even know Tyler's last name until the news of his suicide was announced on the radio. Will the focus ever turn on MB?


Reaction from the Clementis and MB after the verdict (http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/032412_Ravi_gay-bias_case_continues_to_surprise.html)
Please also read comments that follow the article.

[Neel D]

Radio Host Lionel (formerly of Air America Radio) on how Dharun Ravi was railroaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-HuE2sMYpk&feature=relmfu


Thought Crime...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7263Mjfm2YE&feature=relmfu

[NOV]

Great going Neel :thumbsup:
Hope that justice will prevail!

[Neel D]

Justice or Just a Mob Mentality - by Natasha Sapp (a long article but certainly worth reading)

http://indiemusicnews.com/blog/2012/justice-or-just-a-mob-mentality/

[Punnaimaran]

Is there a comprehension problem?
Pls read all my earlier posts.

No, ther is no comprehension problem. Quoting you :

//Its a prank. Not a crime//.

I had just asked whether you would have said the same thing if it had happened to one of the females in your family.(You don't have to reply, just ask yourself... that's all). Also I do not imply or presuppose that this fellow is the reason for suicide and hence be punished. I say that invading the privacy of a vulnerable person(whether boy, girl, gay, lesbian or transgender) is indeed a severely punishable crime and I do not dismiss it as just a teenage prank.

If there is there any comprehension problem, I think it is not with me.

[rajraj]

I just checked the website. They have collected about 13000 signatures so far. That is after about a month. They need 25000 by April 15th, according to the website. There are more than two million Indians here. I leave it to your own interpretation!



https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/address-fact-media-driving-justice-system%E2%80%99s-decisions-18-year-old-rutgers-student-dharun-ravi-not/jqlNR9lP?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

If they can collect more than 25000 signatures before mid-April, then the White House will respond to the petition. (You just need to give your name and email address at the white house website to create an a/c first).

[Neel D]

Here is a good blog post to read.

http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2012/04/tragedy-of-dharun-ravi-case-trial-by.html

[rajraj]

http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2012/04/tragedy-of-dharun-ravi-case-trial-by.html

The blog implies that Dharun has been sentenced to 10 years. The fact is different. Sentencing is set tentatively on May 21st. Jury does not sentence people convicted of crimes. They only find guilty or not guilty. That is the trouble with most Indians here. They never try to understand the system here and jump to conclusions.
Sad! :(

[Neel D]

This is SOME opinion piece! A grown man going vile all over a stupid teenager.

Watching the two faces of Dharun Ravi - by Alfred Doblin (http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/doblin_033012.html)

Make sure to read the well articulated and analytical comments at the bottom.

[pavalamani pragasam]

The phrase 'poetic justice' came as a bolt!!!!!

[Neel D]

The phrase 'poetic justice' came as a bolt!!!!!

The story is not as black and white as the Liberal Media and the LGBT Militia fabricated. It has many shades of grey and it has many players.

On Sep 19, Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei turned on the webcam and viewed it for about 5 seconds. When they saw Tyler Clementi and MB kissing they turned off the webcam right away. Dharun Ravi then left Molly Wei's room. Few minutes later, egged by three of her female friends, KNOWING VERY WELL what they were going to see, Molly Wei turned on the webcam again. They saw the two guys, still kissing, for about 5 seconds and turned it off.

On Sep 21, Dharun Ravi's friend Lokesh Ojha wanted to see the creepy, sketchy guy in Ravi's room. It was Lokesh Ojha's idea to set up the webcam. Ojha actually helped Ravi set up the webcam. But Ojha did not tell the police that he helped set up the webcam. In fact he lied to the police. Ojha admitted to this during cross examination by the defense attorney. Ojha grew increasingly agitated, hostile and disrespectful on the witness stand.

NO CHARGES were brought against Wei's three friends who egged her on and then actually watched via webcam.

NO CHARGES were brought against Ojha who egged Ravi on and was an accomplice in setting up the webcam.

ALL CHARGES against Wei were completely DROPPED in return for doing community service, attending counseling and testifying against Ravi.

Ravi was charged with not 1, not 2, not 10, but 35 counts of criminal charges. And the plea offers he got did not include any charges being dropped. He had to plead guilty to all charges, as opposed to Wei's offer where all charges were dropped.

All others are walking free while Ravi has 24 convictions and is facing upto 10 years in prison.

Where is your justice? Where is the fairness in a democratic society?

[pavalamani pragasam]

WHY? Why on earth is Ravi targeted???

[app_engine]

I feel this is definitely a case of modern day lynching of a young, dark skin, Indian immigrant kid by the justice system. If the kid doing this was white... he would only have got a slap on the wrist. The jury would have felt the sympathy we all feel for Ravi, but because Ravi is Indian he was seen as the outsider and targeted by LGBT pr campaigns. By the prosecution saying they are NOT going to try this kid for the suicide, they actually did just that.

I do not know how the jury can find Ravi should spend up to 10 years in prison, deportation to India a country Ravi does not know, expulsion from Rutgers, a waste of his life, thousands of lawyers in legal fees, being dragged through the mud in this case, plus the emotional toll for himself and his parents - all because of a 3-5 second peep into his own dorm room he shared to check on his own valuables. That is not only ridiculous, it is biased and I am sure in violation of Ravi's own civil rights. The punishment does not fit the "crime".

Check out the Lori Drew case, this was a 49 yr old white woman who went to great length to target her victim and even told her victim to commit suicide, the jury came back with dead locked verdict on count one for conspiracy.


Seems to be a very reasonable post.

Ravi has to be punished for his peeping but not disproportionately.

[rajraj]

The petition expired because they could not collect enough (25000) signatures by the middle of April. Considering that the state of New Jersey has close to 200000 or more Asian Indians, it is strange! Obviously the hype about 'trial by media', 'conspiracy by gay/lesbian groups', 'sentenced to 10 years' fiction, discrimination by country of origin, TV show appearence, interview by a jurnalist etc did not sway even 25000 to sign the petition. Looks like there is more to this case than what was reported by the media.

Again, I will leave it to your own interpretation!





https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/address-fact-media-driving-justice-system%E2%80%99s-decisions-18-year-old-rutgers-student-dharun-ravi-not/jqlNR9lP?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

If they can collect more than 25000 signatures before mid-April, then the White House will respond to the petition.

[Dilbert]

Seems to be a very reasonable post.

Ravi has to be punished for his peeping but not disproportionately.

I am completely agree with you on this one, but its not up to forums and Liberal Media bandits (pundits) to decide. Let Law take its course.

Neel it doesn't matter who helped Ravi to do what he did period. You don't blame the knife maker , because he created a sharper knife. (most of the ooja , wei's of the world are nothing but brats)

rajraj : Indians can never get away from filling petitions habit , for them its like filing for another reservation quota they are entitled for. In this case as If they are entitled for special kinda justice (with gram masala).Glad to see majority backing off from this one.

[Neel D]

WHY? Why on earth is Ravi targeted???

The short answer to your question is "scapegoating".

Even before all the truth came out a leading gay activist and anti-bullying activist Dan Savage siad this. This was published only 10 days after the suicide of Clementi.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/10/02/before-we-crucify-those-two-teenagers-who-streamed-tyler-clementis-having-sex-over-the-internet

Ian Parker, in his Pulitzer-worthy article, said it beautifully - "a collective effort to balance a terrible event with a terrible cause".

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker

Here is Dharun Ravi's interview from ABC News.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHdi2sANQjg

[Neel D]

Neel it doesn't matter who helped Ravi to do what he did period. You don't blame the knife maker , because he created a sharper knife. (most of the ooja , wei's of the world are nothing but brats)

It DOES matter who did what, with and without Ravi present. Just like it matters what Ravi did with or without others present.

[Neel D]

The petition expired because they could not collect enough (25000) signatures by the middle of April. Considering that the state of New Jersey has close to 200000 or more Asian Indians, it is strange! Obviously the hype about 'trial by media', 'conspiracy by gay/lesbian groups', 'sentenced to 10 years' fiction, discrimination by country of origin, TV show appearence, interview by a jurnalist etc did not sway even 25000 to sign the petition. Looks like there is more to this case than what was reported by the media.

Again, I will leave it to your own interpretation!

I posted the vivekajyoti blog to answer your question about the lack of enthusiasm for the petition. But you chose to undermine the blog by pointing out the blogger's misunderstanding (or mistyping) about 10 year sentencing. So, I will post an excerpt from the blog for those who may have not read the blog as a result of your undermining.

But it is also a tragedy of other sorts. It showed how we Indian Americans who sit in the comfort of our lives and do not participate in larger causes, never realize that things can happen to us. For large part Indian Americans were silent, they did not bother about it. The family did not know what it is to seek timely support of the community because they are typical family who lived their own life with little participation in larger causes for community. As some in the program pointed out, we live a selfish life by flocking by thousands to the stupid shows of Indian movie stars, we shower money into expensive garbas and festivals for our children, we continuous party in our little circle, busy pursuing our own career goals and academic and other goals of our children, never participate or contribute to any larger cause, hardly participate and volunteer in our children schools programs, hoping nothing will come to pass and the system will take care of it if necessary. But things do not work that way, not in a true and complex democracy as ours.


Looks like there is more to this case than what was reported by the media.

What do you think that is?

[app_engine]

I'm not a law expert but I don't think U.S. or any other country law punishes somebody harshly for the suicide of an associate.

Even if the dead person wrote an unambiguous note as "Mr X is totally responsible for my suicide", it does not automatically penalize that Mr X.

If the law does so, it's unfortunate and unfair IMSO. In most cases of suicide, some kind of mental disorder is involved and it's unjust to dump the whole cause on some other individual. I think there is correctness in NOT trying this boy for the suicide. However, it has to be done in that spirit.

The punishment (for peeping) should be same regardless of whether the victim committed suicide or simply complained to the authorities and continues to live.

[Neel D]

I'm not a law expert but I don't think U.S. or any other country law punishes somebody harshly for the suicide of an associate.

Even if the dead person wrote an unambiguous note as "Mr X is totally responsible for my suicide", it does not automatically penalize that Mr X.

If the law does so, it's unfortunate and unfair IMSO. In most cases of suicide, some kind of mental disorder is involved and it's unjust to dump the whole cause on some other individual. I think there is correctness in NOT trying this boy for the suicide. However, it has to be done in that spirit.

The punishment (for peeping) should be same regardless of whether the victim committed suicide or simply complained to the authorities and continues to live.

That is one of the best points made about the (mis)handling of this case.

[Neel D]

Mark DiIonno continues to stand up for truth and fairness.

From Indian-American community, a call for justice for Dharun Ravi (http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2012/04/from_indian-american_community.html)

[Neel D]

Article by Jim McGreevey, former governor of New Jersey and a gay man himself.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_jim_mcgreevey/2012/04/jim_mcgreevey_dont_make_dharun.html

[app_engine]

Eric Marcus, who serves on the national board of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (& whose dad had committed suicide earlier) has posted a very valid article in the nj blog that Neel D has linked :

http://blog.nj.com/njv_guest_blog/2012/03/dharun_ravi_wrongly_blamed_for.html


It’s not nearly so simple. We don’t know why Clementi took his life, just as I’ll never really know why my dad ended his. We don’t even know whether Clementi felt bullied, intimidated or even humiliated. What we do know is that bullying, intimidation and humiliation don’t automatically lead to suicide. If they did, few of us would have survived adolescence.

At best, we can say that Ravi’s spying and subsequent Twitter messages might have triggered Clementi’s suicide, which is different from causing his suicide. We know, from research, that more than 90 percent of people who take their own lives have some kind of underlying mental disorder at the time of their deaths, most commonly, depression. But with Clementi, we just don’t know what factors came to bear that caused him to end his life.

Of course, Ravi is responsible for what he actually did and what he did, as far as we can tell, may have inadvertently triggered an extreme response that no one could have imagined. But no matter how reprehensible Ravi’s actions were, he’s not to blame for causing Clementi’s suicide. Ravi didn’t kill Clementi, just as my mom didn’t kill my dad. Dad and Tyler Clementi killed themselves.

[app_engine]

John Farmer Jr. is the dean of Rutgers School of Law-Newark. The opinions in this article are his and do not reflect those of Rutgers University.

From his article :

Think of the demands placed on the jury in Ravi’s case. Jurors were instructed to disregard whatever they may have read or heard about the circumstances leading to the case. Jurors were informed that Clementi had committed suicide, but instructed to disregard that fact in deliberating Ravi’s guilt. Jurors were instructed not to draw any negative inference from the fact that the defendant did not testify. Jurors were further instructed, pursuant to a tortuous and eccentric provision of New Jersey law, that how Ravi’s actions were perceived by Clementi was relevant to establishing Ravi’s guilty state of mind. Post-conviction interviews of the jurors showed that they were bothered by the suicide, that they were troubled by the defendant’s failure to testify and that the bias crime charge was confusing.

At some point, aren’t we asking too much of our juries in viral prosecutions?

In any event, the next phase for Ravi will be sentencing. To their credit, the Middlesex County Prosecutor’s Office and Assistant Prosecutor Julia McClure seemed to have a balanced view of exactly what charges the facts of the case supported and what a fair punishment would be. Prior to trial, they offered 600 hours of community service, no jail time and assistance with federal immigration against deportation.

[Dilbert]

app yena comedy sir ? Jurors has to be neutral, dean is talking as if every other case in america has a biased set of jurors. Hope this doesn't turn in to a cassey anthony kinda deal.

[app_engine]

app yena comedy sir ? Jurors has to be neutral, dean is talking as if every other case in america has a biased set of jurors. Hope this doesn't turn in to a cassey anthony kinda deal.

Dilbert,
I totally agree with you that Jurors should be neutral.

I just posted what the law school Dean has written in that blog :-)

[Neel D]

The dean is trying to say that the juries do not have the capability of interpreting or applying the law.

Lawyers go through years of rigorous education and years of apprenticeship and years of practicing law and still have difficulty interpreting and applying some laws. But the system expects high school graduates to decipher overzealous array of criminal charges, interpret and apply complicated laws, and decide the fate of other human beings. The good intention behind the process of a trial by jury is the expectation that a jury made of peers will see it from a human angle and not completely from a technical angle. Unfortunately that human angle can be poisoned and predisposed to presumption of guilt and vindictiveness due to fabrications and propaganda, as it happened in this case thanks to liberal media and LGBT militia.

If Dharun Ravi case had gone to a trial by judge, as opposed to a trial by jury, the verdict would have been a lot different. The jury in this case interpreted the suicide as a result of "intimidation" and Clementi's sexuality as the reason for "bias" and hence Ravi becomes guilty of bias intimidation hate crime. A judge being a technical person would have completely disregarded the suicide and hence there would be no bias intimidation hate crime conviction.

Also, in a trial by judge, Ravi would have been acquitted on the invasion of privacy charges for September 19th. What he viewed was two men kissing and he turned it off within five seconds. Turning it off so quickly proves that he did not have the motive to watch the sexual encounter. And in that 5 seconds he did not watch anything that is defined by law as invasion of privacy either. New Jersey state law defines invasion of privacy as viewing, recording or distributing images of intimate parts of a person, sexual penetration involving that person or sexual contact involving that person without the consent of that person in a place where he/she as a reasonable person had the expectation of privacy. If all Ravi watched was kissing it does not qualify as invasion of privacy. If kissing is considered "sexual contact" then all people kissing in public places, including wedding couples at the altar, must be booked for public indecency. Televisions must not allow kissing during daytime or prime time when children are still up and watching. An unbiased person will interpret "sexual contact" as contact with an intimate part of the body. Kissing mouth to mouth does not come under it. But the poisoned jury interpreted kissing as sexual contact because the jury went in with a presumption of guilt.

And then, why does MB have an expectation of privacy in Ravi's room? MB did not belong there. It was Ravi's room and Ravi wanted to know what a creepy stranger was doing there. The law mentions "expectation of privacy" which is applicable only to Clementi, not to MB. It was not MB's room nor was it exclusively Clementi's room where MB can expect privacy. A judge would have simply thrown away ALL invasion of privacy charges relating to MB.

There was no viewing that took place on September 21st. But Ravi set up his webcam. He says he later changed his mind and put his computer on sleep. If you do not believe Ravi you can convict him of ATTEMPTED invasion of privacy. So that is the most serious crime he can be convicted of. Again only with regards to Clementi. Not MB.

Read New Jersey law here (http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/14-9.html).

[app_engine]

Neel D,
How & who decides whether a trial should be by juries or otherwise?

[Neel D]

app_engine,

A trial by jury is a right, in a criminal case depending on the charges and possible punishment. It is seen as a chance for the defendant to get a fair judgement. A defendant will have to waive his right to a trial by jury to get a trial by judge(s). A trial by jury is seen where a defendant can get compassion from fellow human beings in the jury and a fair deal, which may not necessarily happen in a trial by judge, especially if the judge represented a tyrannical government. A jury of peers is "supposed" to have the perspective of context, societal norms, behavior, errors, etc. Ravi's defense team opted for a jury trial because they must have thought that the jury will see the incident in its context - as an immature teenager's mistake when he found himself in the middle of a scandalous event when he had just ventured out into the world by himself.

Unfortunately for Ravi, it is clear from the convictions and acquittals that the jury in his case went in with a presumption of guilt. They only acquitted him of those charges where there was solid argument AGAINST the charges. All prosecution witnesses (not defense witnesses) when questioned said that Ravi never had said anything disparaging of homosexuals or anything disparaging of Clementi. This happened over and over again in the trial. And in all those hundreds of tweets, IMs and emails presented as evidence there was not one instance where Ravi used a slur to refer to a gay person. He always referred to them as "gay" when there were so many unpleasant words available. So, the jury acquitted him of bias intimidation on Ravi's part.

But the jury convicted him of what Clementi "thought" was bias and how Clementi "felt" because of it - intimidated - because the jury took into consideration that Clementi committed suicide. You see how it works? It was a no-win situation for Ravi, when the jury had presumed guilt, in spite of solid proof to the contrary. The jury acquitted Ravi of bias intimidation charge where MB "thought" that Ravi did it out of "bias" and because of that MB felt "intimidated". The jury acquitted Ravi on this charge because MB did NOT commit suicide while they convicted Ravi on the same charge with regards to Clementi because Clementi committed suicide.

The jury went in with a presumption of guilt and acquitted only on those charges where there was solid, unshakeable proof pointing to innocence. It should be the other way around. They were supposed to go in with a presumption of innocence and convict only when there is solid, unshakeable proof pointing to guilt, and that too guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is how the justice system is supposed to work. It is there to protect people from being wrongly punished and to prevent overpunishment for small crimes due to oppressive laws.

There are so many options built into the legal system to provide a fair trial, to offer leniency, compassion and rehabilitation to the defendant because our forefathers believed that someone should not be stripped off his freedom, his dignity, his opportunities, his life and be condemned because he committed a crime or accused of committing a crime, big or small. The defendant may have broken the law out of ignorance, immaturity, momentary lapse of judgement, by an honest mistake, etc. He must be treated fairly in a democratic society. The many options and rights available to the accused are right to attorney, Miranda rights, plea deals, jury trial, appeals, overturning of convictions, leniency for first offense, sentencing judge's freedom to give a reduced sentence, early release for good behavior, and so much more. But the same legal system can be used vengefully to overprosecute the accused as it happened in Ravi's case.

[app_engine]

Thank you Neel D, for the detailed explanation!

[Neel D]

app_engine, you are welcome.

Latest on the case... Prosecution to make punishment recommendation
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/prosecutors_to_make_case_for_p.html

[Neel D]

Prosecutors have recommended prison time for Dharun Ravi who is to be sentenced next Monday, May 21, 2012. A group of about 500 people protested the unfair trial and defended Dharun Ravi at the capital.

Protest - article and video - May 14, 2012 - From NorthJersey.com by Karen Sudol (http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/Protesters_No_jail_for_ex-Rutgers_student_Ravi_convicted_in_webcam_case.html )

[Neel D]

Reaching for simplistic answers where there are none.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-crime-rutgersbre84h16c-20120518,0,6416772.story

[Neel D]

Sentencing...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-trial-dharun-ravi-sentenced-30-days-jail/story?id=16394014

Have not caught up with all the details. Sure do appreciate the judge's wisdom.

[NOV]

I heard that the verdict is 30 days prison with no deportation.

That seems fair...

[priya32]

I heard that the verdict is 30 days prison with no deportation.

That seems fair...

Everytime when I watch a video or a news clip on TV, it breaks my heart to see the mother cry.

It sure is a relief...

[NOV]

See the video in Neel's link.
any mother with a heart, would cry... :cry:

[rajraj]

"And I haven't heard you apologize once" - Judge Berman after a long scolding. The judge also said that he would recommend against deportation. But, they are going to appeal against the sentence. That is typical of argumentative Indian mindset. Here we call it digging a deeper hole or asking for a longer rope to hang! :( Sad! When will the Indians learn to live with the US laws, accept responsibility and accountability? :(

[raagadevan]

Everytime when I watch a video or a news clip on TV, it breaks my heart to see the mother cry.

It sure is a relief...

Tyler Clementi's mother cried too! http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/dharun_ravi_sentencing_tyler_c.html

[NOV]

Tyler Clementi's mother cried too!she is crying for blood no?
I see she is wearing a cross... doesnt christianity teach, hate the sin, not the sinner?

[raagadevan]

I did not think this case had anything to do with the religion, language and/or nationality of the people involved!

I have no more comments regarding this matter.

[NOV]

just saying RD, no offense.

one mother is crying for her son
another mother is crying for more punishment
I see the battle of the mothers in Solomon's court. :)

you know which one begets more sympathy. :)

anyway, 30 days jail, 3 years community service and a fine... I think justice is served. its not like dharun has gone scot-free.

[raagadevan]

I said earlier that I would have no more comments about this issue, but here I am again! I think I owe my friends an explanation about my feelings and thoughts about the Dharun Ravi case.

Just as an introduction, I am an Indian, and have lived more than half of my life in a country other than India. I am very proud of my Indian heritage, history and culture. You may not believe this; but I still have not taken citizenship in the country that I have lived in for so long because I want to remain an Indian citizen in every sense of the word. I still read The Hindu and The Times of India on line every day!

As an Indian, and a father, I am very happy that Dharun Ravi was lucky enough to have judge Berman give him just a 30-day sentence even though the jury had unanimously found him guilty of all counts of bias crimes that he was charged with, in addition to invasion of privacy and witness-tampering charges. Dharun Ravi’s actions had directly or indirectly contributed to the tragic suicide of a young man named Tyler Clementi.

However, I had a lot of difficulty with the way the issues were misrepresented and blown out of proportion by the non-resident Indians including a few of my friends. What Dharun Ravi did was wrong, socially, morally and legally; but a lot of non-resident Indians were trying to blame Clementi himself, his parents, the man who visited him, and everyone else in the world for what happened to him. The argument was that our innocent naughty little boy was just playing pranks for which he did not deserve any punishment. It looked so silly and comical to see these people demonstrating in public and signing memorandums to send to President Obama to save Dharun Ravi. Such activities might have worked in India, but not in the USA! Those people either did not know, or did not care, that the President had no power or jurisdiction in influencing a criminal case being tried in a state court! Well; they did what they could, and made news while doing it! That was all that mattered!

While it is understandable that we sympathize with the tears of Dharun Ravi’s father and mother, we can’t totally ignore the fact that Tyler Clementi also had parents, relatives and friends who were also shedding tears for him.

I would like to end this posting with two quotes from some of the blogs dealing with this case:

“To the readers practicing ethnocentrism and evaluating Mr. Ravi's 30 day jail sentence as a "fair decision": If the roles were reversed and Mr. Clementi had bullied Mr. Ravi so much he committed suicide and then Mr. Clementi received only a 30 days in jail would you call that a "fair decision" or a "travesty of justice"?”

“Judge Berman deserves praise for intelligently and reasonably balancing the relevant factors and handing down an appropriate punishment”.

[NOV]

If the roles were reversed and Mr. Clementi had bullied Mr. Ravi so much he committed suicide and then Mr. Clementi received only a 30 days in jail would you call that a "fair decision" or a "travesty of justice"?”I may be wrong, but wasn't it established legally that Ravi did NOT drive Clementi to his suicide? I don't think that was the charge. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Dilbert]

I may be wrong, but wasn't it established legally that Ravi did NOT drive Clementi to his suicide? I don't think that was the charge. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Nov I agree with your above post there is a verdict out I think judge was fair ! That guy wants to stay in US , its going to be a tough uphill battle

On the role reversals and speculations etc I don't think anyone one in this thread except Rajraj and App have a moral right.. to talk about it. When you guys couldn't answer my question from day one. What if it was Girl instead of a Gay guy! would the Indian surf / robin sottu nelam culture path light bearers would be discussing in this tone?

one last personal note it was semi casey anthony. This guy got slap on his wrist he must be thanking his stars and lawyers.

one mother is crying.. becuase his son might be behind bars for x amount time
another mother is crying becuase she will never get to see her son ever again .. and the last thing his son did was to check ravi's twitter page 37 times.. before heading tothe bridge.

[raagadevan]

"Does Dharun Ravi Feel Remorse?"

http://bruni.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/does-dharun-ravi-feel-remorse/

[Neel D]

Dharun Ravi apologizes...

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/29/11942407-dharun-ravi-apologizes-for-spying-on-roommate-heads-to-jail-thursday?lite

[Neel D]

The judge has given jail time for the following:

- ATTEMPTED invasion of privacy (Sep 21, 2010)
- trying to tell Molly Wei what to tell police
- trying to influence what Molly Wei told police
- not telling the police the complete truth
- tampering with the evidence (tweets, chats)

The judge has given probation for the following:

- Invasion of privacy (Sep 19, 2010)
- Bias intimidation (Sep 19)
- Bias intimidation (Sep 21)

A probation sentence on the more serious charges of invasion of privacy and bias intimidation show that the judge believes that these charges are unfair. He even said that he did not believe Ravi hated Clementi. Wish the judge had overturned the conviction on these charges. But, maybe the judge thought that it would create another political storm (by the LGBT militia) and make the whole saga continue if he overturned the conviction. By letting the conviction stand but giving a light sentence he has avoided a political storm and has been fair to Dharun Ravi as much as possible. Also, the bias intimidation convictions have a presumption of incarceration. The judge has probably set a bold precedent by only giving a probation sentence for this charge. It actually reduces the intensity of a hate crime charge now. The judge may have sent a message that if a serious charge is misused then he will use his power to bring down the seriousness of the charge itself.

[Neel D]

The judge speaks...

Excerpts below. Link at the bottom.

--> No matter how “unconscionable” Mr. Ravi’s conduct, Judge Glenn Berman said in a court hearing, “I can’t find it in me to remand him to state prison that houses people convicted of offenses such as murder, armed robbery and rape. “I don’t believe that that fits this case,” the judge continued. “I believe that he has to be punished, and he will be.”

--> Judge Berman noted that the punishment was harsher in some ways than what was recommended in a report by the correction official who did the presentencing interview with Mr. Ravi. That report recommended against any incarceration or fine.

--> On Wednesday, the lead prosecutor elaborated on that, telling Judge Berman that she thought a five-year sentence would have been appropriate.

--> While last week the judge reserved his harshest words for Mr. Ravi, on Wednesday he engaged in a tense exchange with Julia McClure, the first assistant prosecutor for Middlesex County, saying he would not comment on her appeal, but accusing her of “smirking” as he explained his reasoning for the sentencing.

--> In reaching his sentence, the judge said he started with the agreement the prosecution had made with Molly Wei, who had viewed the webcam with Mr. Ravi the first night he spied on Mr. Clementi and his visitor. Ms. Wei was spared prosecution in an agreement to testify against Mr. Ravi, agreeing to three years’ probation and 300 hours of community service. Believing that “consistency breeds fairness,” the judge said he gave Mr. Ravi community service and probation. “It wasn’t my deal,” he said. “It was the state’s.”

--> He argued that the Legislature intended prison terms to be attached to bias crimes that were “assaultive or violent in nature,” not invasion of privacy. “I also know his age,” Judge Berman added, calling it a mitigating factor. “I believe justice compels me to deviate from the guidelines,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/31/nyregion/judge-defends-sentence-imposed-on-dharun-ravi.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

[app_engine]

Over all, Judge Berman said the sentence “was fair, it was appropriate, and most of all, it was consistent.”


:clap:

[Neel D]

Dharun Ravi begins jail sentence...
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/dharun_ravi_arrives_at_sheriff.html

Clementis reject Ravi apology...
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/tyler-clementis-family-slams-ravi-judge-in-rutgers-suicide-case/

[Neel D]

Dharun Ravi to be released from jail this week. The prosecution claims that the sentence was "illegal".
Ravi has appealed to overturn conviction. The prosecution has appealed for a longer jail term.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/NJ_man_jailed_for_webcam_spying_to_go_free_Tuesday .html

[Neel D]

Dharun Ravi released from prison. Immigration will not initiate deportation.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/dharun_ravi_is_released_from_m.html

[raagadevan]

"Rajat Gupta and Dharun Ravi: Two Trials, One Lesson"

-Sandip Roy in The Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sandip-roy/rajat-gupta-and-dharun-ra_b_1615483.html

[inazerowmo]

one mother is crying.. becuase his son might be behind bars for x amount time
another mother is crying becuase she will never get to see her son ever again .. and the last thing his son did was to check ravi's twitter page 37 times.. before heading tothe bridge.
:exactly:

[Neel D]

Tyler Clementi's family plans no legal action over Rutgers webcam spying case (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/rutgers_webcam_spying_suicide.html)