All Ragas of Rahman

[RR]

AR Rahman has composed pure hindustani (one of his strengths) raag-based songs, carnatic ones as well as his own experimentation blending several ragas. This thread is to discuss these songs and related topics. I invite experts, fans & everyone interested to join the discussions.

[RR]

We start with singer Padmalatha's exposition of ARR's raga usage in 'Hai rama':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_MSd1pidUk&feature=BFa&list=UL52XthroQmOs&lf=mfu_in_order

[Arvind Srinivasan]

ARRs usage of nattai and its melakartha.....

1) Dilse re - a version of the melakartha chalanaata
2) Narumugaye- Version of gambheera naata and in some places naata
3) Chale Chalo from Lagaan- another song which uses naata.....

[Roshan]

Udhaya Udhaya - Charukesi. I have no idea about classical music but once during Super Singer Junior practice session, when this song was sung by a contestant the entire Orchestra team and voice expert Anand Vaidhyanadhan went on analysing as to how beautifully AR has used this Raaga in this song. It was an interesting experience.

[Arvind Srinivasan]

Udhaya Udhaya - Charukesi. I have no idea about classical music but once during Super Singer Junior practice session, when this song was sung by a contestant the entire Orchestra team and voice expert Anand Vaidhyanadhan went on analysing as to how beautifully AR has used this Raaga in this song. It was an interesting experience.

Another gem from ARR in the same raga is Edho Edho Onru from enakku 20 unakku 18

[venkkiram]

எனது கிராமத்தில் ஒரு நாதஸ்வர நண்பர் அடிக்கடி சிலாகித்து பேசுவது சொல்லாமல் கேட்பதில்லை என்ற காதல் வைரஸ் படப் பாடலை. அடுத்தமுறை ஊருக்குச் செல்லும்போது அவரை பேசச் சொல்லி வீடியோ எடுத்து இணையத்தில் பதிவு செய்யணும் என்ற ஆசை இருக்கிறது.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaepWJPYQuE

நீங்களும் இங்கே இந்தப் பாடலைப் பற்றி அலசுங்களேன்!

[RR]

Roshan & Arvind

Both are excellent charukesi's - 'edho edho' is my favorite. This raga must have fancied him a lot. He used it often and most of them were hits. 'mazhai mega vanna' - desam ('pal pal hai' - swades) is another beautiful. He also used charukesi for his Raga of dance piece in vanessa mae collaboration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrdvg6oqmWM

Note the graha bedam in the middle..

[Sunil_M88]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsHVa049e4

[thumburu]

That was a nicr demo on Bhimplaas and "Radha kaise na" is my all time fav. In KangaLal Kaidu sei there is another bhimplaas/Abheri scale song "Anarkali" . In this song, in the interludes, ARR has used Lalgudi Jayaram's famous "thillaana"

[Roshan]

Roshan & Arvind

Both are excellent charukesi's - 'edho edho' is my favorite. This raga must have fancied him a lot. He used it often and most of them were hits. 'mazhai mega vanna' - desam ('pal pal hai' - swades) is another beautiful. He also used charukesi for his Raga of dance piece in vanessa mae collaboration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrdvg6oqmWM

Note the graha bedam in the middle..

Thanks RR for this link. Pure bliss ! Spellbinding work with the violins there. I kept repeating the portion from 4.00-4.19 (it made me hold my breath). And interestingly what I like most about both in Udhaya Udhaya and YaethO YaethO is the way he uses the violins. Specially in the interludes. In the first interlue of Udhaya Udhaya the solo violin piece would stir your soul. And it's simply amazing in the background of un paathi vaazhgiraen - en paathi thEigiRaen. He goes berserk towards the end of 2nd interlude and also at the end of both Charanams with the violins. Same with yaethO yaethO interludes and towards the end of 2nd Charanam. Thanks once again for the link and also the previous one. Have saved them.

BTW, would appreciate if you can explain a bit about graha bedam :)

[V_S]

Great thread RR, thanks :smile:
My very favorite Rahman song which also got him and SPB the NA, based in Sivaranjani. Great Sivaranjani!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJx_bWgQDrU

[Sunil_M88]

Azhagana Ratchashiyae (Mudhalvan) reethigowla raga :bow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sp3EgcJXbo

[Sunil_M88]

khwaja mere khwaja (JA) and acid darbari (127 Hours) - Darbari Raga

[RR]

venkiram: It's one of my favorite songs. Will be interesting to hear an analysis. First impression, I see it behag-ish but not sure. Need to look into it more. KV, where are you?

V_S: thanks, I was expecting you :) 'thanga thamarai magale' national award to SPB pathi no comments :( On the raga, I think it's a typical ARR raga mixture. The part 'iruthayathin ulle' is of course sivaranjani.

sunil: good videos! 'azhagana raatshashiye' is a cool fast riti gowla. In darbari, we can add 'kaatre en vaasal vanthai' too.

[V_S]

RR,
Thanks. :smile: How about KaNNum KaNNum KoLLai Adithaal? Especially when he finishes with 'Artham artham', I can hear sivaranjani. Beautiful song, another favorite of mine. Even SnehidhanE (one of ARR's top most composition) has touches of sivaranjani, if I am not wrong.

[Arvind Srinivasan]

BTW, would appreciate if you can explain a bit about graha bedam :)

Its a very popular technique where scale changes in a particular raga helps in arriving at another raga.....
.
for example take the raga- mohanam- say the scale C - the notes are S R2 G2 P D2 S; in western C D E G A Ctop
.
1) if we take R2 G2 P D2 S R2 from mohanam and use R2 as S, we get the ragam - madhyamavathi

2) same way if we take - G2 P D2 S R2 G2 and take G2 as S, we get the ragam- hindolam

In the same way with, P as lower S- we get sudha saveri and with D2 as S we get sudha dhanyasi

this is what is known as graha bedam......

graha bedam is also possible in various ragams, be it melakartha or janya ragams.....

take even charukesi- we get three ragams using graha bedam - vachaspathi, natakapriya and gowri manohari.....

hope this answers your question or have i confused you even more.....

[RR]

V_S: kannum kannum has no anya swaras, so it can be argued sivaranjani. But ARR introduces another complication. Not clear where is the shatjam. If we take panjamam sruti, the scale becomes like Neelamani (without 'Ni', so just Neelama ;) ). Both are very close ragas in feel too. Since this is just scale based song, I think it's not clear-cut to give one name. In other words, one can take whichever raga he/she thinks it is. It won't be incorrect. (Nanna kozhappitena? ARR panna mattum sariyaa..)

MSV & IR are both well known to do such ambiguous raga based songs. We just discussed a couple in IR thread .. :D

[RR]

Thanks Arvind. You explained it crisply (and saved me trouble) :thumbsup:

[Roshan]

Its a very popular technique where scale changes in a particular raga helps in arriving at another raga.....
.
for example take the raga- mohanam- say the scale C - the notes are S R2 G2 P D2 S; in western C D E G A Ctop
.
1) if we take R2 G2 P D2 S R2 from mohanam and use R2 as S, we get the ragam - madhyamavathi

2) same way if we take - G2 P D2 S R2 G2 and take G2 as S, we get the ragam- hindolam

In the same way with, P as lower S- we get sudha saveri and with D2 as S we get sudha dhanyasi

this is what is known as graha bedam......

graha bedam is also possible in various ragams, be it melakartha or janya ragams.....

take even charukesi- we get three ragams using graha bedam - vachaspathi, natakapriya and gowri manohari.....

hope this answers your question or have i confused you even more.....

Many thanks Arvind :) No confusion at all. It's quite clear. Another small request, can you tell me at which point the graha bedam happens in the Venessa Mae link RR had posted? ellaam oru aarva kOLaRuthaan :)

[Gregorysab]

Few i could think of from the top of my mind:

Aahista Aahista from Swades is in Charukeshi

Noor Un Ala (meenaxi) is in raag Jog/Chalanaata shades

Aaromale (VTV) has bhageshree shades in the lines Swasthi swasthi sumuhurtham

Naina (from Water) is in raag Bhatiyar

Chodo meri Baiyyan (Zubeidaa) is in Pathdeep

Thee kurivi (i think) from Kangalal Kaidhu sei is in Hamsadhwani

Then there are many Bhairavi/Sindhu bhairavi based ones: (not all are absolute, but some have mix or shades of Bhairavi)

1. Sabaq Aisa (tehzeeb)
2. Rang Hai (meenaxi)
3. Mera Rang de basanti (Legend of Bhagat singh)
4. Behne De (raavan)
5. Maargazhi Thingal (Sangamam)
6. engae enadhu kavidhai (Kandukondein)
7. Jiya Jale (Dil se)
8. Khamoshiyaan gungunaane lagi (1-2-ka-4)

[RR]

Roshan,

Listen to the part from 2:29 min onwards. The piece stops at a note, and then starts off with a different scale. Later again it comes
back to charukesi.

I think this is not a very good example. There's one song in telugu movie 'sruti layalu'. The kid sings and demonstrates graha bedam. You can youtube it.

[RR]

aakarsh, thanks.

'Naina' is a great Bhatiyar based one - his favorite hindustani raag. I think this is not an easy-to-filmyfy raga but he has done it. That too, not having any semblance to the other big bhatiyar hit 'Aayo Prabhat' from sur sangam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwU0PuFIUP8

[KV]

RR, this thread's been pending for sometime now, thanks for creating it!
Some of my favorites... not exactly sure of the raag though.
Piya ho (water) - shubhapanthuvarAli/Todi(Hindustani)?
Bhangari marori (water) - shankarabharanam?
Kurukku chiriththavale (mudhalvan) - vaasanthi?

[KV]

v_sji, thanga thaamarai is shivaranjani eh? :confused2:. Even the starting lines?

[Gregorysab]

KV,

Piya Ho from Water is raag Lalit i think.

And I dont know if Thanga Thamarai is Sivaranjani, but a song from Mr. Romeo is based on sivaranjani. Also, the opening track of Bombay Dreams musical is sivaranjani.

[Gregorysab]

Can anyone list out the main raagas used in "Al Madath Maula" from Mangal Pandey. I felt a Keeravani and Sivaranjani.. but the songs seems to be a curious mix!

I like that song a lot.

[KV]

Thanks for the info, Aakarsh. Will check it out once again.
Suntha hai mEra khuda, which IMO is heavily inspired by MSV's kallellaam maanikka, must be MMG.

[Gregorysab]

Yes, Sunta hai Mera Khuda is MMG.

Kismat Se tum, from same film Pukar, is Bheempalasi base!

[KV]

Anything in PantuvarAli/KAmavardhini or Amruthavarshini from ARR?

[Sunil_M88]

Adi manja kizhange (Tajmahal ) vaasanthi
Anbendra mazhayile (Minsara kanavu) Anandabhairavi
Anbey (Rhythm) Gaud sarang/Charukeshi
Anjali anjali (Duet) Maand
Azaghe sugama (Parthale paravasam) Sahana
Azhagaana raakshasiye (Mudhalvan) Reethigowlai
Boondon se baatein (Thakshak) Misra Kirwani
Chaand aaya hai zameen par (Dil he dil mein) Charukeshi
Chale chalo (Lagaan) Chala Nattai
chandralekha (thiruda thiruda) Nada bhairavi
Chhodo mori bainyan (Zubeidaa) Patdeep
China china aasai (Roja) sankarAbharaNam, harikAmbhodhi.
Columbus (Jeans) Madhyamaavathi
Deem tadare dani (Takshak) Megh Malhar
Dil hai chhotasa (Roja) Bilawal/Gaud sarang
Duet Sax piece (Duet) Kalyana Vasantham
En kadhale (Duet) Hari kambodhi
En Mel Vilunda (May Madam) Kapi
En swasakatre (En swasakatre) Kedar
En veetu thotathil (Gentleman) Senchuruti
Enai kanavilaye neatrodu (Kadhal Desam) Keeravani
Enge enadu kavithai (Kandukondein Kandukondein ) Sindu bhairavi
Ennavale adi ennavale (Kadhalan) Kedaram
Ghanan ghanana (Lagaan) kafi
Hey rama (Rangeela) Mayamalawa gowlam
Idhu sugam sugam (vandicholi chinnarasu ) Dharmavathi
Jhoola bahon ka (Doli Sajake Rakhna) Peelu
Jiya jale (Dil Se) Misra Bhairavi
Kadhal Rojave (Roja) kaapi...humming bit is in Desh
Kandukonden Kandukonden (Kandukonden Kandukonden) Nalinakanthi and Kathanakuthuhalam
Kannamoochi (Kandukondein Kandukondein) Natakuranji/Shahana
Kannodu kaanbathellam (Jeans) Sudha dhanyasi + Abheri
Kanum kanum (Thiruda thiruda) Sivaranjini
Kappal Yerri Poyaachi (Indian) Kapi
Kariye naa (Taal)Maru Bihag/Hemant
Katre en vasal vandhai (Rhythm) Darbari Kanada
Kurukku siruthavale (Mudhalvan) Vaasanthi
Malargalae (Love Birds) Hameer Kalyani & Saraswathi
Margazhi poove (May madham) Hindolam
Margazhi Thingal allava (Sangamam)Sindu bhairavi
Mettu podu (Duet) Anandabharavi
Mitwa (Lagaan) Bhupeshree or Vasanthi
Monolisa (Mr.Romeo)Gawathi
Nenje nenje (Ratchakan) Khammaj
Ni main samajh gayi (Taal) Ahir Bhairav
Nilakaigiradhu (Indhira) Misra Kedara(Hamir kalyani)
Oru poyyaavathu sol kanne (Jodi) Misra piloo
Ottagatha Kattikko (Gentleman) Dharmavathi
Paarkaathe Paarkaathe (Gentleman) Mohanam
Pachai kilighal (Indian) Kapi
Piya haji ali (Fiza) Maand
Porkalam (Thenali) Kedar
Radha kaise na jale (Lagaan) Bimpalas
Rang de (Takshak) Charukeshi/Nat Bhairav
Ruth aa gayi re (1942- Earth) Puriya Dhanashree
Snehidhane (Alaipayuthe) Saramathy & Sivaranjani & Mohanam
Suttum vizhi (Kandukondein Kandukondein) Saranga and Hamsanandhi
Swasame (Thenali) Misra Shyam Kalyan
Taal se taal mila (Taal) Raga Bhairavi
Thaneerai kathalikum (Mr.Romeo) Sivaranjini
Thaniye Thananthaniye (Rhythm) Anandhabahravi
Theendai (Enswasa katre) Sriragam
Theenthanana...(Rhythm) Anandabharavi
Thenmerku (Karuthamma) Kanada
Thirakkaatha (Enswasa katre) Neelambari+Kedar
Varaga Nadhi Karai (Sangamam) Yaman Kalyani
Velli malare (Jodi) Megh Malhar (Kafi)
Ye Muthu paapa (Vandicholai chinnarrasu) Madhyamaavathi
Yennasolla pogirai (Kandukondein Kandukondein) Misra Kirwani

source: http://prabhuthemusiclover.tripod.com/arrahman/id3.html

I don't know how accurate this site is.

[Gregorysab]

KV,

Panthuvaraali and Amruthavarshini have different colours altogether! how come you have bracketed them in same question? :-)

Panthuvaraali, Vasantha, Hamsanandi, Gujri Todi, Lalit, Sohini, Maarwa, Pooriya dhanasree.. these are the similar sounding raagas (for me).

As for your question on ARR's panthuvarali - Hai Rama in Rangeela is one.

Ruth Aagayi re is a fantastic song in that, but I remember reading that it is Pooriya Dhanasree.

I havent heard ARR using Amruthavarshini ever. But a small piece in the BGM of Robot does show a shade of that raaga for a moment, before changing its colour.

[KV]

Nay, didn't bracket 'em, buddy... just that these two are among my favo raagams.
Oh yeah! How did I forget Hai Raama! And yes, Ruth aagayi sounds close... need to revisit.

[Sunil_M88]

My favourite raagas are reethi gowlai, abheri/bhimpalas and anandabharavi (resembles reethi gowlai)

anandabharavi songs

Anbendra mazhayile - gospel song in anandabharavi
Mettu podu by spb and p. susheela, has one one of the best preludes done by Rahman Ji. Kadri gopalnath :bow:
Thaniye Thananthaniye (later remade into nachley, hence bhangra in anandabharavi)
Theenthanana - my fav song from rhythm, :( it wasn't in lakeer

Rahman Ji has this fascination over making Tamil songs in Hindustani raagas and Hindi songs in Carnatic raagas :clap:

[KV]

thanks for the list, Sunil!
Idhu sugam sugam is one heck of a composition in Dharmavathi! ARR, Vani, SPB :clap:

[Ramakrishna]

Roshan & Arvind

Both are excellent charukesi's - 'edho edho' is my favorite. This raga must have fancied him a lot. He used it often and most of them were hits. 'mazhai mega vanna' - desam ('pal pal hai' - swades) is another beautiful. He also used charukesi for his Raga of dance piece in vanessa mae collaboration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrdvg6oqmWM

Note the graha bedam in the middle..

What a stunner! Listening to this for the first time. Just now realised that i have it on my hard disk, but never listened to it. This is a hidden gem.

[RR]

KV: vaango.. vaango.. your guesses seem right to me. Both 'hai rama' & 'ruth aagare/machiniye' are classified by pundits as poorya dhanashri. But, feel-wise i don't see much difference from pantuvarali.

Sunil: your 3 favorite ragas are some of the more often used ones in films (the songs usually become hits) with reeti gowla being a recent, md's attention capturer. But ananda bairavi, ARR lightens it a bit too much to give a different flavour. The list.. i have seen it before. We'll go thru it and fix the mistakes in this thread as we progress..

I thought Raaga's dance was hugely popular and everyone must've heard it by now. :)

[V_S]

v_sji, thanga thaamarai is shivaranjani eh? :confused2:. Even the starting lines?
KV,
That's the problem with my crude way of listening. Only sometimes it clicks. Intha paattOda raagamellam, ketkumpOthu, eppavo oru pusthakathel'a ezhudivechathu. Just wrote here from there. I felt it was sivaranjani at few places. Please clarify. RR also told it has a mixture of raagas.

[Sunil_M88]

sunil: good videos! 'azhagana raatshashiye' is a cool fast riti gowla. In darbari, we can add 'kaatre en vaasal vanthai' too.

Sometime ago, was listening to Rehna Tu - haken continuum fingerboard portion (I don't know if it is raaga based) Being an electronica and raaga composition fan, I wrote a post saying I would love to hear reethi gowlai on the continuum. Rahman Ji may not have delivered reethi gowlai but it was a pleasant surprise to hear Acid Darbari (continuum) from the 127 Hours OST :grin:

[Roshan]

Roshan,

Listen to the part from 2:29 min onwards. The piece stops at a note, and then starts off with a different scale. Later again it comes
back to charukesi.

Listened to it a couple of times again and trying to download it now.



I think this is not a very good example. There's one song in telugu movie 'sruti layalu'. The kid sings and demonstrates graha bedam. You can youtube it.

Will look for it. Thanks again :) Loving this thread !

[RR]

Sunil, tell us more continuum fingerboard. Which part of the song has it? any other songs?

Roshan: :) check out the IR forum threads too. There's lot lot more there on ragas, sruti bedam,etc.

[wizzy]

^ he used the continuum in Rehna Tu from Dilli 6 http://soundcloud.com/shakthi92/a-r-rahman-on-the-continuum

(http://soundcloud.com/shakthi92/a-r-rahman-on-the-continuumL likedin)I liked the one used in TOI concert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81VPYBJAC5c

[Sunil_M88]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_-lhLLjLU

I'm sure I hear a raaga, but I wish I could decipher it :(

Rahman Ji (The real gadget boy of India) :clap:

[Sunil_M88]

RR, its the extended postlude, thanks for the link wizzy!

Also check this

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKqOrq_O4XU

Rahman Ji humming the continuum portion @ 3:06 onwards

[Gregorysab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_-lhLLjLU

I'm sure I hear a raaga, but I wish I could decipher it :(

Rahman Ji (The real gadget boy of India) :clap:

This is Bhairavi raag

[Gregorysab]

Quoting a friend of mine, who wrote the album review of Delhi-6 when it came. While reviewing Rehna Tu, he wrote the following about the tail-end piece on continuum:

"It is fascinating that this piece sounds like a carnatic raaga without actually being any one in particular that I can place. It is probably close to a begada-like raga (only in scale though, deriving from both Shankarabharanam and HariKambhoji; there are bits that sound like kafi, shankarabharanam, khamas, and a minor tonal-shift part that sounds like abheri near the end)."

[RR]

I'm sure I hear a raaga, but I wish I could decipher it :(

If you can hear the raag and appreciate it, that's mostly it. Knowing the raga name is secondary.. What's in a name :)

BTW like to know more about this cool gadget (how does it work, how one plays, etc.) . can you write about it some other thread?

[Gregorysab]

RR,

http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/html/overview/Intro.html

or even a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_(instrument) will give you lot of idea. This link has a demo: http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Continuum/html/examples/ex235.html

ARR used it in the tailend piece of Rehna Tu and in Acid Darbari in 127 hours.

The instrument must be a boon for Indian classical music firstly. Because there is no scope for gamakas on keyboards while continuum allows that. Infact, I am surprised that no one pounced on it yet, to explore Indian classical. Even ARR has not yet tapped its key strengths (ability to produce micro-tones, apt for Indian classical) to great extent, so far...

ARR has also bought/got another new instrument called Harpejji: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyBL4uOqWzA

[KV]

Aakarsh, you've read my thoughts! The continuum allows lots of room for flowing gamaks, but somehow hasn't been explored to any good extent yet. Even ARR's usage seems to be operating in simpler phrases (for all we know, this one could be very difficult playing!).
The Harpejji's a fascinating device! :thumbsup: Looking at the number of possibilities with it... wow! Waiting to see this one explored as well. Any idea in which movies this has been put to use so far? Anything in the credits?

[Gregorysab]

Harpejji has not yet been used, as far as i Know. but ARR got one. (he is clearly an instrument man - the childlike enthusiasm on his face upon seeing a new instrument is evident)

[RR]

Thanks aakarsh.

Coming back to topic :) Here's a set of videos by Charulatha mani on ARR's raga usage in a few songs. Very good insights, don't miss them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts1I3sZIrNs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF4IBKoT2N0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_CA7hRuIFM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg6gDG6WMuU&feature=related

To summarise them,

Part 1. discusses these two songs:

narumugaye (naattai, maand )
vellai pookkal (hamsadhwani)

2. kathal rojavae (kaapi)
en mel vizhuntha (-do-)

3. thakka thayya (madhyamavathi)
thom karuvil irunthom (-do-)

I this this is debatable. Hindustani experts need to confirm.

4. kannum kannum (sivaranjani)
malargale (saranga, saraswathi)

The saranga part is again debatable. Some call it suddha sarang.

[KV]

//
RR, thanks for suggesting Shruthi Layalu. What a brilliant soundtrack! :shock: Mama! :bow:
That mandolin song... damn! I've gone nuts on this one! What stylish Mandolin playing! Is that U.Srinivas in the video (and/or behind the scene)?
Aakarsh, have you/Suresh/Plum written about this movie/songs anywhere? If not, here's your assignment, mate! :razz:
//

[Gregorysab]

KV,

Sruthilayalu was a K.Vishwanath movie that had classical music as the premise. So, you know, it is bound to be good (in 80s). I havent written about the film because its been a long long time since I watched it. K.V.Mahadevan scored the music and I heard that mandolin Srinivas was employed for the mandolin pieces in the film. Coincidentally, the child-artist in the film was Srinivas (not U.Srinivas).

[KV]

Thanks for the info, Aakarsh.

Theeyil vizhundha thEna (godfather)... what scale is this one in? I see traces of Charukesi. I have mayanginEn solla thayanginEn and Anbe en anbe anbe (june R?) ringing somewhere in my head. Some sites say Chakravagam/AhirBhairav and some others, Vaasanthi. Confusion!

[Gregorysab]

Never heard that song. Must have heard only few times and if I dont remember it now, it means it didnt register much! somehow that album Godfather didnt impress me!

[RR]

KV, it's charukesi scale but stresses a lot on vaasanthi part. Similar to 'kaathalin deepam ondru'.

Godfather also has a good hindolam - innisai alabedaye.

[Roshan]

Thanks Wizzy, Sunil and Akarsh for the video links. Finished watching.

Will check Charulatha Mani's videos tomorrow.

[Gregorysab]

The song Pal Pal Hai bhari (Swades) has raag Jaunpuri (apparently) and Jaijaivanthi(this i have felt). I like this composition a lot and i feel Swades is a very good album by him. Yeh Tara Woh Tara was based on raag Kalavathi.

[RR]

aakarsh, I too like swades album. Most of the songs are good. Even the tamil dub is not bad. I think kalavati/valaji almost never failed MD's. Suits filmy tunes quite nicely.

[Gregorysab]

RR,

True! But the extent of usage in films has been very limited (I have zero knowledge about Tamil film industry before IR). Back in 60s, composer Naushad gave "Koi Sagar" and Roshan had few songs (such as Kaahe Tarsaaye from chitralekha I think). Pt. Ravi shankar gave one, called "saanware saanware". Then in 70s, R.D.Burman's Hum kisise kum nahi title song had shades of this raaga. This song inspired Jatin Lalit for the title song of Sarfarosh. In 80s, ilaiyaraaja did a beautiful Kalavati in Swarna Kamalam (Telugu film). After that, Yeh Tara is the only song I heard in this raaga. ARR did it very well!

More recently, Leslie Lewis gave a very racy Kalavati "Jhanana Jhanana" in an obscure film called Apna Aasmaan.

[RR]

aakarsh, there are several pre-IR kalavati's but let's recount them in another thread, just to avoid too much digressions.

For today, a pilu based song. I don't hear too many good pilu songs in TFM (though many in hindi films- 'mainu ishq da' from DHKMN is a beauty) except occasionally like 'vannam konda' by SPB. Then came this stunner from Jodi. Arguably one of the best hariharan solos under ARR. Listen to this 7 min wonder where both have given almost everything they got..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1p4AzDVUiI

[Roshan]

aakarsh, there are several pre-IR kalavati's but let's recount them in another thread, just to avoid too much digressions.
For today, a pilu based song. I don't hear too many good pilu songs in TFM (though many in hindi films- 'mainu ishq da' from DHKMN is a beauty) except occasionally like 'vannam konda' by SPB. Then came this stunner from Jodi. Arguably one of the best hariharan solos under ARR. Listen to this 7 min wonder where both have given almost everything they got..

True ! Thanks for the song. Just a couple of nitpicks from the video slide - Lyrics are by Vairamuthu not by Vaali (all songs in Jodi are written by Vairamuthu). And the lyrics complement the tune and the theme very well and therefore credit must go to the right person. And if I remember correct this song appear fully in the movie (in the climax Ramesh Arvind performs it). Only the Sujatha-Srinivas version appears for 4 mins.

[Gregorysab]

Never heard this one before. Good one!

[RR]

Thanks, Roshan & aakarsh!

Roshan: of course lyrics is by Vairamuthu. Though being a VM fan, I didn't quite like the pallavi because it's very close (which I think was a coincidence) to
Vaali's unforgetable wordplay in 'ennai kaanavillaye netrodu' charanam..

Meiyaaga nee ennai virumbaadha podhum
poi ondru sol kanne en jeevan vaazhum
nijam undhan kaadhal endral..

[Roshan]

Finished watching Charulatha Mani's videos.. Precious again :)




Roshan: of course lyrics is by Vairamuthu. Though being a VM fan, I didn't quite like the pallavi because it's very close (which I think was a coincidence) to
Vaali's unforgetable wordplay in 'ennai kaanavillaye netrodu' charanam..

Meiyaaga nee ennai virumbaadha podhum
poi ondru sol kanne en jeevan vaazhum
nijam undhan kaadhal endral..

That's correct. But I have no complaints as we get to see the real Vairamuthu in the Charanams.

Akarsh, do listen to the entire 'Jodi' album.

[RR]

Roshan: agree agree.. That's just my nitpick in an otherwise perfect combo in this song..

The rest of Jodi is a rehash of Doli Saja Ke which I guess aakarsh must've listened to. And, probably thought all songs are rehashes
and hence missed 'oru poyyaavadhu'.

[Roshan]

The rest of Jodi is a rehash of Doli Saja Ke which I guess aakarsh must've listened to. And, probably thought all songs are rehashes
and hence missed 'oru poyyaavadhu'.

Ok.. got it.

Regarding Raagas, I remember this was also during Super SInger Junior rehearsals.. Some one mentioned that pOraaLae ponnuthaayi is based on Mohanam and Mohanam is a pleasant Raaga which is used for happy and pleasant songs but AR in contrary has used it for a sad song (referring to the sad version of PooRaaLae..)...

[Siv.S]

RR,Thanks for Charulatha mani's videos, i know nothing about these ragas.. but enjoyed watching it to know how AR used these ragams. :bow: :bow:

[Gregorysab]

The rest of Jodi is a rehash of Doli Saja Ke which I guess aakarsh must've listened to. And, probably thought all songs are rehashes
and hence missed 'oru poyyaavadhu'.

Precisely right! :-)

[RR]

Roshan: Strictly speaking, 'pOraale ponnuthayi' pathos version is not Mohanam. ARR tweaks it a bit (G2) and touches sivaranjani and this is what gives the pathos feel. But this idea is already used by IR, e.g. in 'paadu nilaave'. Note how he ends the line 'un paadalai naan thedinen' (touches sivaranjani) and the line 'ketkaamale naan vaadinen' (touches vaasanthi).

[Gregorysab]

RR,

The latest - Aur Ho from Rockstar, has shades of Ahir Bhairav. Please confirm. If yes, then is this the 1st ahir bhairavi from ARR?

[baroque]

ARR churned AHIR BHAIRAVI in the film TAAL , it came around late 90s.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO4liWZcKow

ni main samaj....taal

solah Baras Ki Baali Umar Ko Salaam
aye Pyar Teri Pehli Nazar Ko Salaam....ek tujhe ke liye...Kamal hasan!:swinghead:


Pandit Jasraj's aaj to anand ...... in Rag Ahir bhairavi, I meditate.:ty:

Vinatha

[baroque]

my son's favorite is the raga BHAIRAVI-(sindhu bhairavi):happydance:

taal se taal mila.......TAAL:happydance::musicsmile:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFZa-MxJZQk

[RR]

aakarsh, I can't confirm on the Rockstar one yet. But he has done a superb Chakravagam/Ahir-Bairav in Muthu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHCrN8QqvGk

[Gregorysab]

Oh yes! I forgot this song. Yes, Ahir Bhairav! He didnt explore this raaga after Muthu? He seems to be fascinated more by Bhairavi..

[Arvind Srinivasan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4jn0lDQL5k

A good example of ARR's usage of the raga Thodi.....he tweaks it a bit with the addition of G2 and D2 though....the notes of S G2 M1 P sung by karthik between uthatta nee konjam suzhikaiilla and maman thvikiraen give clear indications of the rag being close to thodi......

[Gregorysab]

Sarfaroshi ki Tamanna - legend of Bhagat singh - Raag Desh

[aewufobo]

Can any one tell me the raga which is used in "Nila Kaigiradhu" song from "Indira"?

[Sunil_M88]

Bombay Dreams - I could live here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86DdQXmqIHA

Any idea what raag this is? I would like to hear other compositions set to this raag :)

[Sunil_M88]

What raaga is kural from connections because charanams of thalatum poongatru sound similar?

[Gautham Dharan]

Yes, it sounds like Ahir Bhairav

[RR]

Can any one tell me the raga which is used in "Nila Kaigiradhu" song from "Indira"?
This is a rahman-ic one - take a standard raga like hamir/kedar and spice it up with foreign notes/phrases to give a novel shape.

In super singer recently he conveyed his perspective behind such compositions. Said something like 'When a raga fascinates me, I go ahead play with it adding mishrams (foreign notes) and see how it comes'.

[lancelot]

+1 to the above comment

[RR]

Sunil, kural from connections sounds like Mayamalava gowla. Thalattum poonkatru is in simmendra madhyamam -a scale variant of MM gowla, so resemblance is possible in film songs. IR has a piece in How to name it where he plays with both in his own inimitable way..

[RR]

In Basant Bahar (loosely)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_FLQx6jI6Q&feature=kp

[RR]

Suddha saveri / Durga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GNxSa1ebqQ

[RR]

Song: Innum konja neram (Mariyaan)
Raga: Pahadi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRsO4ROuTWg

[mappi]

One of my favorite ARR songs (and I have a fasination towards this name Nanditha, a very "sweet-smiley" name) :

Theekuruvi from Kangalal Kaidhu Sei
Raga : Hamsadhwani

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhNcLHrqpgg

[Sunil_M88]

Another stellar composition in hamsadhwani is vellai pookal