Possible Solutions to Eradicate Dowry! [Archive]

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Oldposts

30th January 2005, 03:05 PM

Topic started by Shakthi (@ bangdp-38-104.mantraonline.com) (@ modem60.bayrac2.eureka.lk) on Thu Mar 28 11:12:26 .

Hello people,

The following is just a discussion and possible solutions of eradicating DOWRY SYSTEM.

I was surprised and stunned, when I was informed that THE DOWRY IS NOT ONLY PREVELANT IN INDIA, but is deep rooted far down in east too. However, in INDIA, it’s misused and forced upon.

The topic has been spoken time and again in different forms, and by different people. If by reading such articles and threads, there happens to be a change in any single human being, I would consider my aim of posting this thread is fulfilled. Thank you!

A Request. Please do not post ideas on religion, caste, creed, politics or any hatred inviting messeges which is irrelevant to this thread.

Signed,
Shakthi

From age unknown, the union of two souls, in a divine relationship, called marriage, is been practiced as a TRADE.

The minute a female child is born, the enthusiasm for the parents is lost. The female is considered as a liability to be paid off, and a male child is an asset to reap benefit.

DOWRY was primarily a farewell gift, given out of love. These days its outrageous to see, this dowry is more SNATCHED from the bride's parents who shed their blood and sweat to marry their daughter.

Dowry is prevalent in all sectors of society. The reasons for offering dowry may vary.

LOWER AND MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE:

1. Give it out of Compulsion.
2. To get (buy?) a groom in better status than
that of theirs.
3. Gossips of having unmarried girl at home is
torturing.
4. Fear of 3rd parties unnecessary comments and
comparisons (uncles aunts neighbours)

UPPER MIDDLE CLASS AND HIGH CLASS PEOPLE:

1. Offer dowry willingly to SHOW OFF THEIR
STATUS.
2. False prestige. (ESP among upper middle class)
3. Find unique, creative and new ways to spend
money in name of dowry. (Decorative attires,
cakes, wedding arrangements, kitchen
utilities, tickets for honeymoon, etc are some
which may come under this category)

So long as its done willingly its acceptable, but these upper middle class and higher class people should realize, that they are indirectly responsible for dowry. The usage and practice of any system determine the demand for the same in an increasing way.

The dowry problem wears a serious face, when its been forced upon or coerced. The results of this horrid side may vary from bad to worse.

1. Divorce
2. Torture
3. Suicide
4. Murder

In case of love marriages, one has to agree dowry does not play primary role in marriage. But later date, any hatred thrown upon daughter in law has ulterior motive of lack of dowry. If the love of the couple towards each other is genuine, the problem just dies down.

Its presence and intensity is more felt in case of arranged marriages.

The talk in case of arranged marriage starts with "The current market rate my boy has is....$$$ cause he is a doctor, Engg, A.C.A, or Sofware Analyst..."

Lets work as a team to abolish dowry! The solution lies in our hands. How can we as individual contribute to the destruction of dowry? The answer is to analyze our role in this society and how we play our role.

FOR MEN:

1) Are u happy to be looked upon like items sold in market? Did u realise u are priced and traded as per the cost determined, by the society for ur social background and education?

2) Please feel ASHAMED TO BE BRANDED AS PRODUCTS SOLD, to be bought by affordable girls and their parents.

3) You are inviting a partner to share ur life and love. She is equal to you in everyway. Neither have u done a sacrifice by marrying her nor has she, so where is the question of money involved? Love her for her
character, not for her money.

4) The aspirations and aims, should be achieved by one's own hard efforts. The pride of touching ur dreams, with your own dedication is unique. TRY FOR IT.

5) Woman fulfills your needs as regards food, laundry, house-maintenance, sex, bear your children, guard the house, earn for you. All those people who ask dowry, with ur clever mathematical skill, if u calculate monetarily, U OWE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT TO YOUR WIFE.

6) In olden days, there used to be Contests in various forms, to test the skills of men in the fields of intelligence, strength, character and appeal. Guess you fall into the lucky era where YOU assess the girl in multiple aspects.

FOR WOMEN:

1) Take an oath not to marry any person who demands dowry.

2) Be brave when you face situations of adverse effects. Fully believe that you are in noway inferior to men. Don’t be a coward and a victim of torture.

3) If they harass u beyond any particular limit, GET A DIVORCE. Committing Suicide is NOT the solution. Life does NOT become futile, for one worthless human being or a family.

4) Divorcees can earn a good living, thro any decent job. If u don’t have children, spend the money for good cause. Do social service. If u succeed in meeting any man, who can live up to ur expectation, marry him.

5) The society does not look down upon divorcees anymore. If u accidentally happen to hear any wounding words, DONT CARE A PENNY FOR IT. It is better than tolerating wounding words against ur parents by some unworthy in-laws.

6) Sit and talk with your parents. Explain them ur desires. Do not be forced into any marriage.

7) Sit and talk with your future in-laws and fiancé as to yours expectations. Do not just pose before them, for their acceptance of your appearance alone. You are much more than just your physical appearance. Ask them their demands, dreams, aims, expectations. This would surely lead to happy marriage from both sides.

8) Be a part of planning your marriage. Know the reasons, causes, and sources of expenses. Do not be ignorant of your parents’ hardships. If they spend on any unwanted item, which is either not demanded upon or is unnecessary, then, CUT THOSE EXPENSES.

9) Ladies should understand and think about this problem as a curse to womanhood. Forget that u are a groom’s mother or sister or relative. YOU ARE A WOMAN. Rules don’t change because you accidentally happen to be groom’s relatives. IT IS A SHAME, TO FIND THAT THE PRESSURE ON DOWRY, AND DEATH DUE TO DOWRY, IS PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF WOMEN WHO STAND ON THE OTHER SIDE AND DEMAND THE SAME.

FOR BRIDE'S PARENTS:

1) Parents should stop feeling burdened or sad to
have an unmarried daughter at home. The purpose of female birth is NOT ONLY marriage and re-production.

2) The parents of the bride should take primary action in abolishing dowry. Do not accept to give dowry beyond ur monetary capacity. ( Still better, SAY NO TO DOWRY)

3) Sending the unmarried daughter or divorcee for higher studies or a good job, would increase her confidence and your happiness.

4) When the bride faces inhuman tortures in her in-laws place, DO NOT SEND HER BACK, at the cost of her life. Re-marriage is not at all a weird idea to consider.

FOR FUTURE PROSPECTIVE BRIDE GROOMS:

1)Nowadays the trend is to settle thro ur hard-earned money, not ur parents, not ur in-laws.

2)Buy necessary items for basic living, even before u invite ur life partner to share ur life. That’s the best gift u can give her, rather than roses and cards on valentine's day.

3)If she is also an earning member, sit with ur fiancée, plan out the necessary items, and share the cost equally.

4)Talk to ur parents, and make them agree, to share the marriage cost equally! (food, choultry and other extravaganzas)

5) If possible try to settle for simple marriage, and a small party afterwards.

6) Do not allow your life to be ruled, by third parties comments or demands as to your fiancée’s status, looks or her economic background. They are people who sadistically comment and contribute NOTHING towards your welfare during the times of distress. (I hear by mean 3rd parties, and NOT bride groom's parents)

We should all think, lead way and be an example for better tomorrows, and happy marriages

Oldposts

30th January 2005, 03:05 PM

Cool post This should be printed and distributed in every street or posted over cinema posters, all over TN.

Oldposts

30th January 2005, 03:05 PM

THe solution to eradicate dowry is to make every woman get a job and go for work earn independent living.

Oldposts

30th January 2005, 03:05 PM

I quite agree with Kosu. It's the financial freedom that would make a woman a real freedom. A woman doesn't have to say "marry me to take care of me", which is like begging a man to take care of her like a little girl. So the women should use their education and earn their living and be like men - equal. In this case she can say I'm equal to a man, why asky for dowry.

Oldposts

30th January 2005, 03:05 PM

Whether a woman works or not is irrelevant. It should be her choice. Dowry system is inherently evil and the best solution would be something like in shariat law, amputation or emasculation.

Oldposts

30th January 2005, 03:05 PM

kosu, Adaikalam,

A woman going for job sure makes her Independent . But the sad plight is that even if she goes for a job, the money earned therefrom is saved for her dowry so that it relieves her father's burden to spend for her.

Financial freedom does NOT relieve women fully. We all know many women earn their living, and is in worst plight than the non-earning women. They have to do dual work of home and job front. What women need is not ONLY FINANCIAL freedom. The freedom in true sense, would include freedom from certain norms and values which ties and binds only women.

A man unmarried at 35, or divorced, or a widower, is not subject to criticism or debates.The same is NOT true for women. Hence, whether a woman is financially dependant or independant, she is forced or made to say YES to marriage, pay dowry for it against her will, for the want of equally educated man like herself.

Siddarth,

"Whether a woman works or not is irrelevant. It should be her choice. Dowry system is inherently evil and the best solution would be something like in shariat law, amputation or emasculation."<<<<<<<<<<</a>

Surya

4th February 2005, 07:52 AM

Only one way. Men should gain self respect, and oppose being sold to a woman like a male prostitute.

Regards.

Sandeep

7th February 2005, 11:12 PM

As long as parents of the bride dont understand that my agreeing to pay dowry you are only bringing danger to your own daughter there is no way dowry is going to go.

In todays world all value money over self respect. Greed is what is making educated, modern, well to do people ask for dowry.

Educated and employeed women are also forced to pay dowry. Until and unless parents stop to see their girl child as a burden there will continue to be dowry and girl child killing.

Surya

8th February 2005, 05:38 AM

Sandeep,
That's a good point. But atleast in the cities, the thought that female children are burduns is fading away.

Querida

11th February 2005, 03:47 AM

i was actually shocked when hearing relatives give such an abhorrent excuse to why guys refuse dowries...supposedly if family of groom's refuse dowry...(especially those who work/study abroad) it is only because the guy has a woman there, or has messed around and so the family is willing to accept anyone (desperate) enough to marry their son....how sick is that? :x

Shakti's post is very good except of course for :If possible try to settle for simple marriage, and a small party afterwards. NO WAY! :D :P

Surya

11th February 2005, 05:37 AM

Another is that, the man that refuses, might have something wrong with him physically. :evil: That's the kind of people that keep dowry alive!!

Rohit

11th February 2005, 08:47 PM

To eradicate dowry, first educate girls and let them stand on their own feet and don't let the boy's side decide all the terms and conditions in marriage. Painful though for the boys and their parents, but simple and sure-to-succeed solution for the centuries old decayed Indian society.

TamilenUir

11th February 2005, 10:29 PM

I think one way to erradicate dowry is by supporting the love marriages in families. I find there's nothing like dowry in Love marriages, this sick custom is only there in Arranged Marriages...
So watch all Romatic movies and make your children watch them.. ; )

TamilenUir

11th February 2005, 10:37 PM

That was on the lighter side...
I feel the only way to eliminate "dowry" is by people not accepting Dowry in Marriages... I think this culture can be started by parents who have a Son and a Daughter together.
Since they would have the bad experience of giving back the dowry for their girl child, they should not ask for dowry for their Son. I think this would be a good way to start the eradication of this menace...
I don't think people with only Sons cannot start with this as they would never have felt this pinch.

your comments pls...

mandangi

17th February 2005, 08:12 AM

Until there are people who give dowry there will be people who take dowry. Womens parents should stop giving dowry. If woman faces dowry harassments divorce and remarriage is only way to get rid of harassments.
Dowry tradition is mostly seen in middle class and rich families. Poor people do not give much or any preference to dowry.

mandangi

17th February 2005, 08:21 AM

In todays world all value money over self respect. Greed is what is making educated, modern, well to do people ask for dowry.
Well educated and well earned people only ask more dowry. An unemployed person demands less dowry. Doctor or engineer demands more dowry. In my caste there is no tradition of dowry. One doctor who belong to my caste married christian woman for dowry. After marriage he harassed her too much for dowry.

davie

19th February 2005, 06:22 PM

I think giving or getting dowry is prevalent in entire south india. I think poor people give and take dowry. If the person is rich, why da fuck he wants dowry? If a rich person gets dowry, then he belongs to the poor category according to me

Surya

19th February 2005, 11:32 PM

Financialy rich, but morally poor. He's agreeing to be sold to a girl by his parents. In other words he's agreeing to be a prostitute! :evil:

davie

20th February 2005, 01:40 AM

he means not me. someone else. If a rich person gets dowry, then he belongs to the poor category according to me. I think this dowry problem is related to money and nothing else.

Surya

20th February 2005, 01:45 AM

Well, Did u accept dowry? :wink:

Just Kidding.
I was reffering to anyone who accepts dowry. :)

lordstanher

21st February 2005, 07:45 PM

Financialy rich, but morally poor. He's agreeing to be sold to a girl by his parents. In other words he's agreeing to be a prostitute! :evil:

lol.....tat's true of course! Btw, is it of ne use tat dowry is actually illegal in India now?? I doubt it :x
Actually in addition to this, therez now a sort of 'counter-dowry' happening in arranged marriages today, where the girls' parents (& in many cases the girls themselves!) insist on only guys w/ US-based jobs or high-sal/income ones.....so in these cases its the girl who is agreeing to be sold by her parents for money. In other words she is agreeing to be a u-know-wat :evil:

Surya

22nd February 2005, 12:32 AM

True. Marraige has become more of a trading/business deal for the future. :( Just a man who is willing to be sold and a girl who is willing to be sold getting sold to eachother in a deranged ritual called marraige. (I might have gone a bit overboard there.) :lol2:

My dad didn't accept dowry thirty years ago when he got married. So I guess men with self-respect have always been against it. :)

mandangi

22nd February 2005, 01:45 PM

Financialy rich, but morally poor. He's agreeing to be sold to a girl by his parents. In other words he's agreeing to be a prostitute! :evil:
Dowry is immoral. But majority of the people in our society do not think so. There are many cases of dowry harassments. But only few women dare to divorce and remarry. So dowry harassments are increasing in India.

Yudhajit

11th March 2005, 05:11 PM

Thirudanai parthu thirunthavittal,
thiruttai ozhikka mudiyadu..

i feel, it is more on men's part than women's. So every men who are going to get marry, should not accept dowry. I am against dowry system, defintely i am not going to get it (Thanmana thamizhan :D ).

Yudhajit

goodsense

20th August 2005, 05:55 AM

Mandangi wrote: There are many cases of dowry harassments. But only few women dare to divorce and remarry.

The girl's parents start saving from many years before and are left dissapointed if its not enough! :evil:

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 02:34 PM

THE DOWRY IS NOT ONLY PREVELANT IN INDIA.

yeah, it's practiced by the chinese as well, as far as i know. any more examples, guys?

DOWRY was primarily a farewell gift, given out of love. These days its outrageous to see, this dowry is more SNATCHED from the bride's parents who shed their blood and sweat to marry their daughter.
yes, and i also see dowry as the method used for equal wealth distribution in the past. the land is divided among the sons. and for it to be fair to the girls (and easier for her as well as jewellery is portable while land is not, since the girl leaves her home to live in her husband's house), their share of the wealth was given to them in the form of jewellery, etc when they leave the house when they get married. and it is to be noted that dowry is given to the girl when she gets married and not to the groom and the amt given depends on the wealth of the girl's family, not on the qualities of the groom. of course, after marriage, everything that belongs to the girl belongs to her husband as well. but then, that applies to the groom as well.

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 02:45 PM

Dowry is prevalent in all sectors of society. The reasons for offering dowry may vary.

LOWER AND MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE:
1. Give it out of Compulsion.
2. To get (buy?) a groom in better status than that of theirs.
3. Gossips of having unmarried girl at home is torturing.
4. Fear of 3rd parties unnecessary comments and comparisons (uncles aunts neighbours)

says sth for the guys who are willing to be bought like that, doesn't it?

UPPER MIDDLE CLASS AND HIGH CLASS PEOPLE:
1. Offer dowry willingly to SHOW OFF THEIR STATUS.
2. False prestige. (ESP among upper middle class)
3. Find unique, creative and new ways to spend money in name of dowry. (Decorative attires, cakes, wedding arrangements, kitchen utilities, tickets for honeymoon, etc are some which may come under this category) So long as its done willingly its acceptable, but these upper middle class and higher class people should realize, that they are indirectly responsible for dowry. The usage and practice of any system determine the demand for the same in an increasing way.

i wouldn't totally object to this. i mean, it's a celebration and they can do it grandly if they so wish.

gifts like tickets for a honeymoon wouldn't actually seem so bad if you weren't thinking abt dowry. but the problem of dowry makes even innocent gifts seem bad.

the fact that they are indirectly responsible for dowry is not going to stop them from giving it, i'm afraid!

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 02:54 PM

The dowry problem wears a serious face, when its been forced upon or coerced. The results of this horrid side may vary from bad to worse.
1. Divorce
2. Torture
3. Suicide
4. Murder

yeah, that's the biggest problem, when it is been forced! but nowadays, it seems to me that this is going down. a relative of mine was talking to my mum and she was saying that if the groom's family asks for dowry, we wouldn't give our girl to them and that nowadays that is the case with most pple.

but she also said, but of course, we will give sth for our daughter when she gets married. which leads us to another problem, that is, the groom's family might behave decently and not ask for dowry, but perhaps only cos they are confident that the girl's family will do sth for her. so what does that say abt the groom and his family then?

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 02:56 PM

The talk in case of arranged marriage starts with "The current market rate my boy has is....$$$ cause he is a doctor, Engg, A.C.A, or Sofware Analyst..."

oh yeah, let the marraige bazaar begin. to the highest bidder! bidding starts from $xxx!

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 03:06 PM

Lets work as a team to abolish dowry! The solution lies in our hands. How can we as individual contribute to the destruction of dowry? The answer is to analyze our role in this society and how we play our role.

FOR MEN:
1) Are u happy to be looked upon like items sold in market? Did u realise u are priced and traded as per the cost determined, by the society for ur social background and education?
2) Please feel ASHAMED TO BE BRANDED AS PRODUCTS SOLD, to be bought by affordable girls and their parents.
3) You are inviting a partner to share ur life and love. She is equal to you in everyway. Neither have u done a sacrifice by marrying her nor has she, so where is the question of money involved? Love her for her character, not for her money.
4) The aspirations and aims, should be achieved by one's own hard efforts. The pride of touching ur dreams, with your own dedication is unique. TRY FOR IT.
5) Woman fulfills your needs as regards food, laundry, house-maintenance, sex, bear your children, guard the house, earn for you. All those people who ask dowry, with ur clever mathematical skill, if u calculate monetarily, U OWE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT TO YOUR WIFE.
6) In olden days, there used to be Contests in various forms, to test the skills of men in the fields of intelligence, strength, character and appeal. Guess you fall into the lucky era where YOU assess the girl in multiple aspects.

agree with all the stuff. i really like the song from ABCD, barathi-yin arimugam!

anbu thanthu arivu thanthu alagana pen thanthal
athukkum keppan kooli

car-um thanthu seerum thanthu sila laksham thantha than
tharuvan thanga thaali

karupaiya nirappidathan panapaiya kekkiriye
manitha sol unakkenna peru? vekka kedu!

coat-u potta mappilaikku rate-u konjam jasthi endral
indukku peru enna? aan vibacharam! ithu abacharam!

anbu thanthu arivu thanthu alagana pen thanthal
athukkum keppan kooli

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 03:22 PM

[tscii:d4a9b67e52]
FOR WOMEN:
1) Take an oath not to marry any person who demands dowry.
2) Be brave when you face situations of adverse effects. Fully believe that you are in noway inferior to men. Don’t be a coward and a victim of torture.
3) If they harass u beyond any particular limit, GET A DIVORCE. Committing Suicide is NOT the solution. Life does NOT become futile, for one worthless human being or a family.
4) Divorcees can earn a good living, thro any decent job. If u don’t have children, spend the money for good cause. Do social service. If u succeed in meeting any man, who can live up to ur expectation, marry him.
5) The society does not look down upon divorcees anymore. If u accidentally happen to hear any wounding words, DONT CARE A PENNY FOR IT. It is better than tolerating wounding words against ur parents by some unworthy in-laws.
6) Sit and talk with your parents. Explain them ur desires. Do not be forced into any marriage.
7) Sit and talk with your future in-laws and fiancé as to yours expectations. Do not just pose before them, for their acceptance of your appearance alone. You are much more than just your physical appearance. Ask them their demands, dreams, aims, expectations. This would surely lead to happy marriage from both sides.
8) Be a part of planning your marriage. Know the reasons, causes, and sources of expenses. Do not be ignorant of your parents’ hardships. If they spend on any unwanted item, which is either not demanded upon or is unnecessary, then, CUT THOSE EXPENSES.
9) Ladies should understand and think about this problem as a curse to womanhood. Forget that u are a groom’s mother or sister or relative. YOU ARE A WOMAN. Rules don’t change because you accidentally happen to be groom’s relatives. IT IS A SHAME, TO FIND THAT THE PRESSURE ON DOWRY, AND DEATH DUE TO DOWRY, IS PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF WOMEN WHO STAND ON THE OTHER SIDE AND DEMAND THE SAME.

1. very good oath! but as i already mentioned, what if the guy only refrains from asking cos he knows that your parents would give sth or if they don't give now, they are rich, so they will give gifts later and in the end, the wealth will come to the girl?
2. i second that girls should be courageous and shouldn't feel that they are in any way inferior to men! i feel compelled now to quote from only of my favourite poems:

Oh my beautiful sari
I love you much to tell you free
You enlighten the feminism in me
For which I should thank you much
For I am a woman first
The birth I consider the best.

3, 4 and 5. yes, divorce IS an option! just cos divorce should be avoided as an out for silly problems doesn't mean it is not the option when faced with torture.
6 and 7. yes, talking openly abt stuff can solve so many things!
8. yup, don't let ur parents spend more than they can and even if they can afford it, extravagant expenditure should be avoided. think abt what other more useful stuff you could spend that money on!!! it's ok to have a moderately grand wedding. i mean, after all, it's a celebration. but don't overdo it!
9. yes, ladies! stand up for your fellow ladies![/tscii:d4a9b67e52]

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 03:30 PM

FOR BRIDE'S PARENTS:
1) Parents should stop feeling burdened or sad to have an unmarried daughter at home. The purpose of female birth is NOT ONLY marriage and re-production.
2) The parents of the bride should take primary action in abolishing dowry. Do not accept to give dowry beyond ur monetary capacity. {Still better, SAY NO TO DOWRY)
3) Sending the unmarried daughter or divorcee for higher studies or a good job, would increase her confidence and your happiness.
4) When the bride faces inhuman tortures in her in-laws place, DO NOT SEND HER BACK, at the cost of her life. Re-marriage is not at all a weird idea to consider.

just wanted to say that it's easy to say no to a groom and his family who ask for dowry but it's harder not to give dowry even if the groom and his family don't ask for it!

and abt remarriage, i agree.

and i thought i'd just mention that i thought sneha's character in ABCD was really nice! not only her remarriage, but the way she wears a white saree while her husband is alive as a protest against dowry! but then, luckily for her, he died in an accident. in real life, it would be better to divorce and get on with your life!

Fire111999

13th April 2006, 03:33 PM

[tscii:41e2c5f32b]
FOR FUTURE PROSPECTIVE BRIDE GROOMS:
1)Nowadays the trend is to settle thro ur hard-earned money, not ur parents, not ur in-laws.
2)Buy necessary items for basic living, even before u invite ur life partner to share ur life. That’s the best gift u can give her, rather than roses and cards on valentine's day.
3)If she is also an earning member, sit with ur fiancée, plan out the necessary items, and share the cost equally.
4)Talk to ur parents, and make them agree, to share the marriage cost equally! (food, choultry and other extravaganzas)
5) If possible try to settle for simple marriage, and a small party afterwards.
6) Do not allow your life to be ruled, by third parties comments or demands as to your fiancée’s status, looks or her economic background. They are people who sadistically comment and contribute NOTHING towards your welfare during the times of distress. (I hear by mean 3rd parties, and NOT bride groom's parents)

We should all think, lead way and be an example for better tomorrows, and happy marriages

just wanted to mention that the guy should discuss finances with his bride even if she doesn't earn.

and as i already said, a grand wedding is ok as long as it's well within your means, cos a wedding is a celebration. just don't overdo it![/tscii:41e2c5f32b]

Fire111999

15th April 2006, 10:18 PM

hey, isn't there anyone in this forum who cares abt this?

rocketboy

15th April 2006, 10:53 PM

I am of the opinion that girls and ladies are living in a world of myth. Did anyone descend upon the earth and tell each girl individually that they are weak?

In the animal kingdom the female of the species is deadlier than the male.

1.The female praying mantis is known for its peculiar habit of biting off the male's head during mating.

2. A group of elephants is always led by a single old matriarch. Its the females who protect the young ones from other rogue male elephants.

3. A female taruntula which is unreceptive to mating may even eat the male which approaches her.

I think these points are sufficient to drive home my point that girls/ women are not weaker than men .

Fire111999

15th April 2006, 10:59 PM

cool! add the black widow spider to that list!

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 01:53 AM

why does there seem to be no interest in this thread? :? i can't believe that's cos dowry is extinct! and i can't believe that's cos the hubbers don't wish to eradicate it!

gaddeswarup

23rd April 2006, 01:11 PM

http://www.indiatogether.org/2006/mar/ksh-marriage.htm
gives a recent report.

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 02:16 PM

thanks for the link!

crazy

23rd April 2006, 02:55 PM

i think girls should refuse to marry to anyone who ask dowry, if every girl in india does so, men in inida will have no options then, they just have to marry without dowry!

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 03:18 PM

crazy

23rd April 2006, 03:29 PM

i think girls should refuse to marry to anyone who ask dowry, if every girl in india does so, men in inida will have no options then, they just have to marry without dowry!

agree. but as i mentioned, though my aunt was saying that they would refuse any guy who asks for dowry, she also said that they would still give gifts to their daughter. and she said that more pple are doing this nowadays. so how do u know that the guy or his family is not asking for dowry cos they know the girl's parents would give sth anyway?

i believe there is some difference from giving presents and giving DOWRY. but u r right fire!
but think if every family/girl refuses to give dowry, how it would be? i dont even encourage parents giving presents, i would rather advise them to give, personally to their daughter, like opening an account in bank or something!
but i also know that this is my dream in my dreamy world! but how far its from reality............heaven knows!

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 03:36 PM

i believe there is some difference from giving presents and giving DOWRY. but u r right fire!
but think if every family/girl refuses to give dowry, how it would be? i dont even encourage parents giving presents, i would rather advise them to give, personally to their daughter, like opening an account in bank or something!
but i also know that this is my dream in my dreamy world! but how far its from reality............heaven knows!

ah, but sometimes, the dowry is called presents to hide the fact that it actually is dowry, isn't it?

yes, it's good to recognise that the gifts are being given to the girl. but after marriage, ideally everything that is the guy's or the girl's belong to both of them. so to give it to the girl is only to recognise the fact that it is given to the girl out of love for her and not to the groom for his educational qualifications, job, etc. but in the end all gifts go to the couple!

crazy

23rd April 2006, 03:50 PM

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 03:56 PM

ah, but sometimes, the dowry is called presents to hide the fact that it actually is dowry, isn't it?
!

yes thats true, but iam talking about parents(rich or haves) who gives presents. but as a whole dowry should not be given and not be received either!
the only way is not marrying any guy who ask for dowry!
u wont even believe what my mother said about eradicate dowry? she was telling me thats impossible and that she will give me dowry when i get marry, but not ask for dowry for my brothers! i laughed and asked what the difference anyway! she said .............nothing!
but i strongly believe that girls should be only married without dowry! i cant understand how u could possibly love one, who asked for dowry to marry u! i cant possibly living/breath beside a guy who once seeks money for marrying me!

yeah, i understand. i am ok with that as well.

and perhaps your mum means the same, like giving presents? i don;t know.

but my mum says tt she'll just buy us (me and my sis) a few sets of jewellery for our wedding. cos she thinks it's useless to buy loads of jewellery at the same times and then it goes out of fashion. usually pple will give like 50 pounds of gold or 100 pounds of gold etc. my mum says she will do no such thing. but she'll definitely want to have a grand wedding for us.

and even if my mum had a son, she wouldn't ask for dowry!

crazy

23rd April 2006, 04:08 PM

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 04:17 PM

and perhaps your mum means the same, like giving presents? i don;t know.

yeah but i feel ppl still have some opinions about dowry, i said strictly to my mum that i will never marry to someone who ask for dowry/ or to someone who accepts such presents!(but anyway i have no idea of getting married at all)

yeah, me too. my mum also says that she'll search for some guy whose family is richer than us, not cos she's being mercenary of course, but cos she feels that if they're richer, they wouldn't be thinking abt our wealth as a reason to marry into our family, right? i don't know. that might not be always true as well. cos some pple would want more money even though they have a lot themselves!

crazy

23rd April 2006, 04:23 PM

[
cos some pple would want more money even though they have a lot themselves!

yeah those who have money will make more money and wants to have more money!
maybe there might be some good riches out there, but how many????????????
MONEY RULES THE WORLD, WE FAKE UR SELF BY TELLING.NO THERE ISN'T!
MOENY MONEY MONEY its funny
its rich mans game(wasnt something like that)

Lambretta

23rd April 2006, 04:44 PM

yeah those who have money will make more money and wants to have more money!
maybe there might be some good riches out there, but how many????????????
MONEY RULES THE WORLD, WE FAKE UR SELF BY TELLING.NO THERE ISN'T!
MOENY MONEY MONEY its funny
its rich mans game(wasnt something like that)
U mean this song by Abba:
Money money money....
Sweet as honey.....
In a rich man's world.....:)

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 04:49 PM

well, basically i'm againt pple asking for dowry, and i'm also against pple giving "presents" more than they can afford to due to prestige issues and peer pressure!

Hulkster

23rd April 2006, 07:52 PM

Ah this is a good old topic....there have been cases where the wife was brutally tortured through her life just because not enough dowry is given...it is also another reason why divorce rates are high.

Dowry can be eradicated if the customs ban dowry giving or give a strict punishment for asking dowry (A new law in place?). Another way would be if people who are against dowry create talks or documentary programs that highlight what is really the significance of dowry and at the same time show what dowry has done to married lifes.

Of course the best way is if all families having girls of marriageable ages strictly put out dowry. If all of them do that there will be a scarcity of options or even no options for the grooms to marry and they might have to resort to dropping dowry.

On a more off topic note, the evidence of dowry is decreasing and grooms have decided to look upon girls as a judgement for marriage and not the amount of dowry(e.g. Groom is impressed with girl's behaviour and character and values that as a "dowry" of the family). Hopefully we all can eradicate dowry into extinction.

rocketboy

23rd April 2006, 07:53 PM

I am also totally against demanding/ giving dowry. The best dowry a girl can gift her husband is her maidenhood . This applies to the groom as well .

pavalamani pragasam

23rd April 2006, 09:34 PM

ippothaan puyal adichchi oynjsirukku, periya controversy aana oru topic intha "maidenhood"!!!

Fire111999

23rd April 2006, 10:19 PM

ippothaan puyal adichchi oynjsirukku, periya controversy aana oru topic intha "maidenhood"!!!

PP, antha topic-a vidunga. what r ur views on dowry?

pavalamani pragasam

24th April 2006, 07:51 AM

It is unequivocally detestable to put a price tag on an eligible bachelor. At the same time peNNukku periya santhOsham piRantha veettu seer!!!

Fire111999

24th April 2006, 01:46 PM

It is unequivocally detestable to put a price tag on an eligible bachelor. At the same time peNNukku periya santhOsham piRantha veettu seer!!!

is tt so? u mean stuff that would remind her of fond memories?

crazy

24th April 2006, 03:38 PM

It is unequivocally detestable to put a price tag on an eligible bachelor. At the same time peNNukku periya santhOsham piRantha veettu seer!!!

enna pp sollavaareenga? do u mean presents or dowry!

Hulkster

25th April 2006, 02:09 PM

Piranthu veetu seer might be the good values and morals that the family has instilled into her.

Sandeep

25th April 2006, 02:55 PM

One XTian friend told me that in their community the girl is not given property share of their parents. Instead it is given at the time of marraige.

Doesnt that sound fare.

pavalamani pragasam

25th April 2006, 02:57 PM

verungaiyodayaa ponnai anuppa solreenga? veettu maappillaikku mariyaathai seyya koodaathaa?

crazy

25th April 2006, 04:07 PM

verungaiyodayaa ponnai anuppa solreenga? veettu maappillaikku mariyaathai seyya koodaathaa?

is this all ironic, i really dont get it? :roll:

Nakeeran

25th April 2006, 04:21 PM

lets not forget the fact that mostly its a woman ( mother in law ) who is the first to expect dowry. forgetting that they had also undergone the same earlier or what if it happens to their daughters.

hence, if the attidue of women change , dowry will die consequently

thamizhvaanan

25th April 2006, 04:27 PM

well, PPs post somewat reflect a "normal" indian's thoughts. but i dont see it as a mariyadhai for veettu maapillai. forget abt the cases where the bridegroom demands dowry. Even if he doesnt ask, the parents of the bride feel that they shud give something, or else their daughter wont live happily. Most of the brides see it as a pride issue, the amt of dowry that they bring.

It all has to do with the way of thinking. Parents(girls) beleive that they should provide the couple with all the commodities required to start a new family. If everything is left to mappillai's initiative, they are afraid that some part of it may go to mapillai's family take for instance, some of his earnings will go to his siblings if at all he has one. This is expected bcoz the bridegrooms family deserve a portion of his earning. But watever the bride brings as dowry belongs to the couple alone. This is wat most parents think. Basically they also wish that the couple start living seperately so that mapillai's family needs doesnt eat into, wat would otherwise be a prosperous life of their child.

thamizhvaanan

25th April 2006, 04:30 PM

all that i said was assuming the bride's family doesnt demand any dowry. But this isnt the case. Dowries are exchanged even if they arent demanded mostly due to the reasons mentioned above. As a result, the practice becoms so prevailent that, if at all the bride's family doesnt ask for dowry, they are afraid their marriage ceremony mite lose its respect.

infact, i guess this is the main reason why dowries are put on display during marriages.

Nakeeran

25th April 2006, 04:49 PM

I have seen in North Indian marriages, especially in Marwari and Sindhi community, dowry is being given as a matter of prestige from the bride's family.

FloraiPuyal

25th April 2006, 06:48 PM

Fire111999

25th April 2006, 11:05 PM

One XTian friend told me that in their community the girl is not given property share of their parents. Instead it is given at the time of marraige.

Doesnt that sound fare.

but tt was in the olden days, right? cos the girl will leave the house when she gets married. so they give her her share of the wealth as her dowry. and the land is given to the guys cos they will stay at home even after marriage and can take care of the land, etc. but now both guys and girls leave home when they get married. so the property should be equally shared and this is no longer a valid reason for dowry (although i feel that's why the concept of dowry came up in the first place)

Fire111999

25th April 2006, 11:09 PM

verungaiyodayaa ponnai anuppa solreenga? veettu maappillaikku mariyaathai seyya koodaathaa?

is this all ironic, i really dont get it? :roll:

yeah, me too. how is putting a price tag on the groom giving respect to him? and also, dowry is given to the girl (or u could say the couple) not to the guy and doesn't depend on his status (i.e. job, etc)!

dsath

26th April 2006, 12:43 AM

veettu maappillaikku mariyaathai seyya koodaathaa?
veettu marumagalukum mariyaathai seyalame?

Querida

26th April 2006, 05:05 AM

in fact, they will lose the marriage if the bride's family demands dowry.. :lol:

small mistake for a wise comment no?

pavalamani pragasam

26th April 2006, 07:27 AM

marumagalai thangamum pattum kuduththu varaverru aduththa patta mahishi sthaanaththukku amarththuvathuthaan engkal vazakkam!

dsath

26th April 2006, 07:51 PM

Problem is Mapillai's mariyathai is demanded (may be insecurity?) while the marumagal's is not.
It changes the whole equation..........

Fire111999

26th April 2006, 07:59 PM

Problem is Mapillai's mariyathai is demanded (may be insecurity?) while the marumagal's is not.
It changes the whole equation..........

still don't understand how putting a price on the groom gives him any mariyathai. but yeah, guys are more insecure abt themselves, generally. for eg. can't call a guy a sissy, but a girl's fine with being called a tomboy. ok, at least for this, u can say that the word sissy is negative. but girls don't worry abt if their clothes look too masculine but guys are so hesistant to get unisex jeans, t-shirts etc in case they look feminine!

crazy

26th April 2006, 08:30 PM

for eg. can't call a guy a sissy, but a girl's fine with being called a tomboy. ok, at least for this, u can say that the word sissy is negative. but girls don't worry abt if their clothes look too masculine but guys are so hesistant to get unisex jeans, t-shirts etc in case they look feminine!

fire ur tomboy/sissy has caused a great laughter on me today! dont bring it back on the track! plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Fire111999

26th April 2006, 08:39 PM

fire ur tomboy/sissy has caused a great laughter on me today! dont bring it back on the track! plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ok ok. but that's what i was thinking of when i posted this here!

pavalamani pragasam

26th April 2006, 09:46 PM

Fire111999

26th April 2006, 09:51 PM

Again it should be reminded here that putting a price tag on eligible bachelors is a detestable practice. But a genuine groom deserves full mariyaathai from his parents-in-law. The status of maappillai in maamiyaar veedu is special! Many men prove themselves worthy of it in spite of "maappillai murukku". It is all in the game!

same for the bride right? special kind treatment for the girl?

pavalamani pragasam

26th April 2006, 09:58 PM

S.Balaji

26th April 2006, 10:08 PM

Now a days son in laws move like sons before their in laws......the trend is changing ....gone are those maaapillai murkku days ......
if you are going to have maapillai murukku, beware your better half is watching you .......

there is no need for maapillai to be given a special treatment ....why ......... he is another son to the family........ especially for those who dont have sons but only daughters.....

honouring the maapillai with royal treatment and all is an outdated concept ...to be condemned ...... banned with contempt.....

S.Balaji

26th April 2006, 10:10 PM

Again it should be reminded here that putting a price tag on eligible bachelors is a detestable practice. But a genuine groom deserves full mariyaathai from his parents-in-law. The status of maappillai in maamiyaar veedu is special! Many men prove themselves worthy of it in spite of "maappillai murukku". It is all in the game!

Kindly dont encourage such outdated practices back home :oops:

pls do not continue with the same old fashioned habits..... we are in another century.............

Fire111999

26th April 2006, 10:12 PM

marumakalukku maamiyaar veettil koduththu vara thevaiyillai, eduththukolla vendiya urimai. veettil oruvaraaka iruppavaridamvithiyaasamaaka nadakka thevaiyillai. maappillaikku appadiyillai, antha vishesha virunthaalikku valiya mariyaathai kaatta vendum, no taking for granted!!!

oh, but girls don't stay with their mother-in-law nowadays right? so the same applies to the bride as well. and even if the girl does stay with her mother-in-law, she deserves extra kindness cos she is away from home!

Fire111999

26th April 2006, 10:13 PM

pavalamani pragasam

27th April 2006, 07:53 AM

happyindian

27th April 2006, 10:16 AM

A son-in-law can behave like a son, both to parents with daughters only and parents with sons & daughters. But he can never be equated to a son!!! No use wishing away the wise limits set by foreseeing elders. Facts are facts whatever the century be!

For girls maamiyaar veedu IS HER HOME in truth till the end. That does not mean pirantha veedu is less important. But shows just where she BELONGS! Living with in-laws or not, this sense of belonging is essential for a proper adjustment to married life.

PP, gd 2 c u again :-)

Am wondering if men don't want to be treated as someone who dropped from the sky (its so outdated, even embarassing at times, cmon its the 21st century where women if not equal to men are perhaps better off without men in almost every area of life) but all mamiyaars certainly want their sons to be treated that way :lol: [n there will always be mama's boys who will want to expect whatever their mother expects].

True that a girl's maamiyar veedu is her home. Then for a son too his maamiyaar veedu is EQUALLY his home. The sense of belonging rightfully must come from both husband & wife to both sides of their families equally. That makes for a good married life. Right PP?

Why shd one side of the family be extra special? Girls r equally special as boys. Why does a husband always end up being a pawn b/w the MIL-DIL and their issues? The men are sensible these days but their mothers won't let them be. Perhaps coz they cudn't enjoy the same equality in their times.

Fire111999

27th April 2006, 12:11 PM

i agree with you happy indian. that is so outdated!

pavalamani pragasam

27th April 2006, 12:49 PM

:huh:

thamizhvaanan

27th April 2006, 01:02 PM

yea, the problem is with the mothers, they either wanna give dowry or take dowry. the father simply follows the suit :rotfl:

dsath

27th April 2006, 02:03 PM

yea, the problem is with the mothers, they either wanna give dowry or take dowry. the father simply follows the suit :rotfl:
Thats the popular belief, but its far from truth.

pizzalot

8th July 2006, 10:52 AM

Before we eradicate dowry, can we please list out the reasons why dowry exists ?

I am afraid the problem is not dowry but somethingelse.

pizzalot

8th July 2006, 11:35 PM

Before we eradicate dowry, can we please list out the reasons why dowry exists ?

I am afraid the problem is not dowry but somethingelse.

OK. Let me start. But until we get a complete list, let us only talk about the justification of the dowry system. Then we will go and attack each of the points with possible solutions.

1. Dowry exists because we want the just married couple to start a decent life.

2. Dowry is a compensation given to the girl, in a society where the girls do not claim rights to their parent's property. In families, which live hand-to mouth economy, with the little savings they have got, it will not be possible for them to educate both son and daughter.

3. A lot of time and money are invested in men for their eduction. But not so much on women. So when the men have grown-up, they pay their sisters as dowry. It is their duty to do so.

4. It is believed that the son pays back all the investments made upon him. He atleast is seen as an asset who stays in the family. Actually he IS the family after he has grown-up. Where-as the women go elsewhere to live. So even meagre sum of money given to her as dowry really hurts the family when it should not.

5. Men marry women of lower status. An Engineer man will marry a women who rarely went to school. But an Engineer woman finds it difficult to love any other than a Chief Engineer. In all the alliances mobility of women from lower status to higher status is evident. So a small compensation is expected for this mobility

6. Simply even with her education and salary, she refuses to head the family herself. She does not want to pick an uneducated man 4 or five years younger than herself and live with him.

Are there anyother points that you cna think of ?

geno

28th September 2012, 01:53 AM