Colloquial Tamil

[Oldposts]

Topic started by :) punnahai (@ d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net) on Thu Jun 20 18:39:20 .


How many variations of colloquial tamil do we have and what are they? How do they differ from each other in terms of words, pronounciation, etc.?

[Oldposts]

In some Tamil news articles I read "vIrappan oLinthuLLa idam...."

Apparently they've used 'oLi' to denote hide.

But as I learnt in school ( as I recall)
oLi means light or anything to do with brightness
and
ozhi means hide/or destroy or wipe out etc.
and
oli means sound!

Please comment!
PS: I've seen several differnt articles or books using 'oLi' to denote hiding. So a typo is ruled out.

[Oldposts]

>>But as I learnt in school ( as I recall)
<<

Obviously you learnt it all wrong both in school and at home.

oli = sound
oLi = light or hide
ozhi=destroy

So please go back to school and learn Tamizh.

[Oldposts]

So oLi is used for hide too, that's weird! I need to check on that!
You see we didn't retain the correct pronounciation of zhi (some exceptions) so this confusion!

I dind't ask any adivice on correcting this problem did I? Anyways' thanks for your shortsighted quick advice!
Learning Tamil is a lifelong joyous activity, that can be achieved through various means (including schooling) and at various paces!

Also I didn't learn all of them wrong did I!
Only some fraction! Still I never claimed to be a Tamil pandit. I am aware of my limited Tamil knowledge and the need to improve it!

[Oldposts]

>>So oLi is used for hide too, that's weird! I need to check on that!
You see we didn't retain the correct pronounciation of zhi (some exceptions) so this confusion<<

You are correct there. You are not the only one that mispronounces those words.

BTW, you may also want to compare maRai (hide) and maRai (veda/agama)

>>Only some fraction! Still I never claimed to be a Tamil pandit. I am aware of my limited Tamil knowledge and the need to improve it!<<

Why this hypersensitiveness? It is not nencessary. We are all in the learning boat, you are not the only one that needs to improve their knowledge of Tamil. As long as you are in the boat, you are in the right place :)

[Oldposts]

punnahai,

But maRai(veda) has possible meaning as the true meanings are decoded(hidden), thus a wise only understands it. Or (hide) make it not so accessible to the general public!

I guess there could be exceptions where one word could mean two (or more ) differnt things that are close to opposites!

[Oldposts]

The following excerpts from N.Ganesan's writings might explain why some people thought h (I prounouce as similar to h) and others thought g.

"...When I talk of 'hard' consonant 'k' becoming soft '*h*', there is
a qualification. It is not english h, There is little of english
g in *h* too. Can we denote it as 'g-h' or a weighted average
(0.7h + 0.3g)?? Similarly, When I talk of 'hard' consonant 'c'
becoming soft '*s*', there is a qualification. It is not english s,
There is little of english c in *s* too. Can we denote it as 'c-s'
or a weighted average (0.7s + 0.3c)?? *TR* = (0.2T + 0.8R);
*DR* = (0.2D + 0.8R), I think. Have seen Toronto transcribed as
RoraaNTO, observe the TR sound in "Ro" of RoraaNTO.
Also, Peter is transcribed as piiRRar, not as piiTTar.
The 'T' in *TR* is like english 't' as in Peter, an alveolar.
Definitely not a retroflex. ..."

[Oldposts]

Punnahai:

As you may aware, in Southern part of TN people say colloquially (RMT dists),

angittu, ingittu (for that side or this side)

but in the northern part people say

"anthandai" "inthandai".

I am from South and I was not aware of the latter ones and felt like laughing especially when I was speaking to a friend a friend of mine, who is from the north and thinks that their Tamil is better than southern Tamil though she speaks Telugu at home (in fact, horrible TeluNgu at home and which is their mother tongue)

Obviously, I feel Northern people are always cocky and think that they speak better Tamil than South. (Hope u are not originally from northern part of TN!!!)

MY friend started criticizing the southern Tamil,

angittu ingittu - why do you people talk like this and so on so forth.

and was telling me as if "anthandai" "inthandai" are better than ""angittu or ingittu"".

Do you agree with her or not?

Sounds like you grew up in Madras. So you may join with the northern people and turn me down here. Hi, this is a joke!

Again the question is which one sounds better or more sensible colloquial Tamil?
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[visu]

kongu tamizh sounds sweet and respectful.

[sundararaj]

what about Jaffna thamizh?

[podalangai]

what about Jaffna thamizh?

You'll find a lot of information about Yazh Tamil on the Tamil Wikipedia:

http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/யாழ்ப்பாணத்துப்_பேச்சுத்_தமிழ்

Enjoy :)

One point which that article doesn't mention is that the Jaffna Tamil pronunciation of ற்ற as -tt-, ன்ற as -nd- (i.e, மூன்று is pronounced as "mundu") and ற் as -t- (கற்பு is pronounced as katpu) are in accordance with the way Tamil was spoken in the Sangam period. The pronounciation we are used to in Tamil Nadu - as -ttr-, -ndr- and -r- - is a change that our Tamil underwent during the Vijayanagar period, but it did not affect Jaffna.

A second point is that the special Jaffna Tamil past tense forms like "செய்தவன்" instead of standard Tamil "செய்தான்" are actually a perfective tense, which was common in Sangam Tamil. It is no longer used in TN or in written Tamil, but it still exists in colloquial Tamil in Jaffna.

[Shakthiprabha.]

It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! :?

[joe]

It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! :?

That is because of lesser sanscrit influence there.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Well the website talks about

hindustani(hindi?), parsi, urdu, arabic and what not influence on tamizh in TN ! (not just sanskrit)!

Also, the website talks bout

DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all :?

The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form !

[crazy]

DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all :?

All i know is, that we have some words in common, but they aint from Sinhalese's. those r Portuguese(mostly) words.

Some Sinhalese words used in Jaffna thamizh :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_words_in_Sri_Lankan_Tamil


The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form !

it wont last longer, i guess!


It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! :?

:notworthy: :thumbsup: :notworthy:

Podalai anna: :ty: for that link, never seen it before :)

[Badri]

Thamizhil Wikipedia ullathathenbathu enakku inraikku thaan theriyavanthathu!!

Podalangai-ku nanri! :)

Enakku sattru pidikkatha kaai thaan athu endraalum nam Manra podalangai ellorukkum pidithey aagavendum!!! :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

udambu iLaikka virumbupavarkaL virumbi uNNavENdiya kaay! kadalai paruppu sErthu vEga vaiththu seeragam, uLuntham paruppu, chinna vengaayam, vaththal, karuvEppilai thaaLiththu samaiththa curry yummy! :slurp:

[Shakthiprabha.]

DUTCH, PORTUGESE, influence in jaffna tamizh, (apart from English). I still wonder IF JAFFNA tamizh would not have any inflence of SINHALESE at all :?

All i know is, that we have some words in common, but they aint from Sinhalese's. those r Portuguese(mostly) words.

Some Sinhalese words used in Jaffna thamizh :shock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_words_in_Sri_Lankan_Tamil


The percentage of influence might matter. Inspite of so much influence, jaffna tamizh remains non-shaken to the extent of TN and still retains MORE in its original form !

it wont last longer, i guess!


It goes to say TAMIZH in its original form is greatly preserved in jaffna than in TN! :?

:notworthy: :thumbsup: :notworthy:

Podalai anna: :ty: for that link, never seen it before :)

wow crazy. interesting link.

All said n done, Ive always believed jaffna tamizh sounds relatively retaining its texture.! :thumbsup: