Music and (Emotional) Manipulation..

[jaiganes]

We all take for granted the fact that Raaja's music tweeks our emotional stability a lot. Let us discuss what is there in the music - elements which deliver an emotional punch that makes us lose our emotional bearings and simply play us a puppet.
For starters, I would like ppl to discus on the song
"Chittukku sella chittukku" from Nallavanukku Nallavan.
We all know that by now how the song is inspired from a WCM symphony piece by a Russian master Rimsky-Korsakov.
The prelude with the flood of violins and the saarangi (nenjai arukkum) set up the stage...
The melody itself carries a bit of melancholy that delivers the first emotional punch, followed by the voice of Yesappu which gets 55 to 60% of those still left standing. Lyrics are poignant, but that gets probably 10% who have seen the movie.. I think the crux of the whole emotional manipulation comes with two sets of violins that play along in a curious conterpoint in tandem with yesappu singing with all his bhava... These accompanying violins are the destroyers in chief that deliver the levelling impact on the emotional psyche. Raaja uses his WCM skill not as a show off , but as a emotional tool to deliver the meaning of the words in a telling fashion..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdkwl8hO7sY
When seen in context of the movie, SPM cleverly shows montages that aid in the assault on the viewers in a subtle fashion (Thanks to him).. And Rajini-Radhika - what a pair? Fantastic acting completes the pathos to the T - well done...

[baroque]

Second violin interlude of சின்ன கண்ணன் அழைக்கிறான்... ஜானு's yearning solo .
gives uneasy roll through my stomach.. remember those giddiness builds up in the stomach-teenage feeling... when I was in school & college, I thought my hormones were on the loose அப்படின்னு நினைத்தேன் ..NO
IT is the MUSIC.... yeah, I still got it. :)
It 's you , ராஜா :D ..what's the matter with you!
Vinatha.

[baroque]

Remember that patriotic composition with brass, drums, strings, chorus, alaap, rock guitar in
என் கனவினை.......தேசிய கீதம்....இளையராஜா ....ஹரிஹரன்.
ஸ்ரீ.இளையராஜா'ச famous echo flute /wind instrument passage to bring poignancy , profoundly moving feeling.
சேரன் thoughtfully picturised Late முரளி's poignant face for that flute passage .
vinatha.

[baroque]

very குட்டி famous echo wind instrument 's பரிதாபம் in the beginning of joyous female voice தாலாட்டு மன்னவா மன்னவா....(the mercy christian type chorus alaap used by many other MDs too )

[baroque]

தூரிகை இன்றி....
music drizzle with
harp, violin, flute, cello, guitar...
gentle mist like தூவல் counterpoint bgm, I woke up in this cold morning. :musicsmile:
No idea about the visual.
vinatha.

[AravindMano]

Morning dose of 'dhEvanin kOvil moodiya nEram' makes me post here. Gangai Amaran's incredibly sad lyrics pulled forward by the zestful orchestration. Chithra's rendition. The prelude humming by Raja and the grand re-entry in the second interlude. This song is one kaleidoscope of emotions.

[baroque]

Hey I dropped by to post the same composition தேவனின் கோயில்.....அறுவடை நாள்......ஸ்ரீ.இளையராஜா & சித்ரா before I settle down tonight. :)
What a masterpiece!
the mixed mood is amazing..
சித்ரா's pathos & ஸ்ரீ.இளையராஜா's joyous & energetic vocal harmony
christian tune, bass guitar, church bells, flute, violin - Timeless melancholy.

************************************************** ***

The other composition I indulged while driving tonight...

birds chirp & water splashes in ஜானு's ஒரு பூங்காவனம்.....
violin , piano prelude .... melancholic flute & violin fill -ins /back -ups , synthesizer & violin

End of a very nice day for me with ஸ்ரீ.இளையராஜா's சங்கீதம்:musicsmile:

Vinatha.

[app_engine]

"சொக்கிப்போகுறது" எமோஷன்ல சேத்தியா, இல்லையா?

சேத்தின்னா, "அடுக்கு மல்லிகை" ஒரு முக்கிய கேன்டிடேட்!

"மாம்பூவே இளம்பூங்காத்தே"ன்னு எஸ்பிபி குழைவதிலாகட்டும், ரெண்டாம் இடை இசையில் எஸ்பிபியும் ஜானகியும் சேர்ந்து லல-லல-லல பாடுவதிலாகட்டும், ஏன், அந்தத்தொடக்க இசையிலாகட்டும் - ஒரு ஆள் "சொக்கலை" என்றால் நிச்சயமா ஏதோ ஹார்மோன் பிரச்னை தான் :-)

ஒரு சின்ன, விபரீத ஆசை - இந்தப்பாட்டுக்கு மோகன்லாலும் ஸ்மிதா பட்டீலும் (குறைந்த பட்சம் சுமலதா) திரையில் தோன்றணும் - பத்மராஜன் இயக்கத்தில் :-)

[baroque]

பாலா starts singing ....my மனசு உல்லாசமா பறக்க ஆரம்பிச்சுடும் .

now your பாட்டு over .......I snap out of it so that I can be ready for another roller coaster ride :musicsmile:

I am going with
minimalistic இளையராஜா's sobbing masterpiece :cry:
weeping flute prelude for ஸ்ரீ.பாலா's சிவரஞ்சனி pathos ..... interlude violin section bleeds , கிடார் follows up the mood ...memorable பாடல் வரிகள் - கவிஞர் வைரமுத்து :clap:

நான் பாடும் மௌன......
vinatha.

[baroque]

Couple of compositions from ஸ்ரீ .இளையராஜா are reminiscent of chill & cool atmosphere with beautiful musical themes.
இளம் பனி துளி விழும் நேரம்......, ஒரு குங்குமச்செங்கமலம்...., ஒ நெஞ்சமே..... etc..:musicsmile:

அதிகாலை நேரமே ...
புதிதான ராகமே
எங்கெங்கிலும் ஆலாபனை
கூடாத நெஞ்சம் ரெண்டும்
கூடுதே .........பாடுதே .......

ஜில்லென்ற இளையராஜா's பாடல் ......லவர் பாய் & ஜானு.:musicsmile:
(I must thank CSR for his western music theory).
Gorgeous multiple violins movement (string quartet)..with பியானோ & flute. :musicsmile:

தாகம் எடுக்கிற நேரம்......that flute & violin & guitar lude with the beat...ஓடையில் படகு பயணம் எடுக்கிற சந்தோசம்.
along with வைரமுத்து's impressive poetic imagery. :clap:
http://www.raaga.com/player4/?id=39384&mode=100&rand=0.2943867746013319
தாகம் எடுக்கிற நேரம்
வாசல் வருகுது மேகம்
மதுமழை பொழியுமா.....
Vinatha.

[jaiganes]

en jeevan paadudhu from "Nee dhaana andhakkuyil".
Very simple tune, lyrics are moving. For detractors like VM who keep saying that "instruments" are overpowering the words, This song from Raaja should be presented as a "case study". Agreed that language portion is conveyed by lyrics, but something surreal, and subtle can be even more effectively conveyed through music and Raaja does that with aplomb in this song. Each and every musical instrument, be it in the prelude or the interludes or the lines that run along with the singer singing aid in this and make the song that is reachable only to a "particular language audience" when viewed with the looking glass of lyrics to everyone with just ears and heart.
The throbbing of a rejected or "ignored" male in courtship is well brought out by lyrics, but lyrics convey the pain and to a point, even the magnitude, but is simply unable to recreate the swelling of heart that is usually found when a narration of such feelings by an affected person is speaking directly. These are usually areas reserved for "talkie" portion of a Shakespearean drama. When converted into a song it falls into its place perfectly in a movie of our times - only because Raaja creates punctuation of significant portions , a form of underscoring that adds on to what the lyric writer has supplied. I write this while thinking that this is Raaja trademark use of his "limitless" orchestral knowledge. Listen to the song and watch out for the violins repeating a brief flight - a crescendo right at the end of the either charanams.
Bear in mind that these violins have been silent throughout the charanams and from a pure orchestral perspective, they dont have to play a crescendo, but Raaja employs them for only the crescendo and to what effect? when their crescendo plays it so heightens the tension created by the singer and the beautiful verses as to make the song a pinnacle of songs of this genre. A fete no mere words with instruments playing a distant second fiddle can achieve and that is the power of Raaja compared to his contemporaries or rivals from any time frame.
http://tamilxprez.blogspot.com/2010/06/neethana-andha-kuyil-songs.html

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

When I saw the thread title I knew it must be you who have opened the thread :)

Quite late in the night now. Will just say that the one song which always brings a lump in the throat is 'poove poo chooda vaa'. Will try and analyse why tomorrow.

[kiru]

Very nice thread Jai and appropriate title. I'd define music - as a sequence of tones that evokes a human emotion . The more deeper the impact on the emotions the more the music lasts. Jai's commentary on that song is very good but still have not listened to it yet. Will post more.

[kiru]

Jai, I have noticed this technique in some other songs as well.. the violins/strings dont go away ..they will be lurking in the background..but they finish off the lines rather than the vocalist. Very interesting. Thanks for bringing notice to this. My pet theory is - raaja splits the vocal singing (as in classical/traditional) style into parts and gives some to the instrumentalists. In this song, specifically, a singer in dejected mood..cannot do all this brighas.. by making the violins play it is a complete tune now.. atleast this is the way I am enjoying it..The prelude is also counterpointed, the signature of raaja, which helps me identify many songs as his.

[Sureshs65]

Yesterday in 'Manadodu Mano' program on Jaya TV, Mayilsamy was the guest. After speaking about MGR and Sivaji songs, he sang a song of Raja. (It was one of Raja's 'Amma'song. Forgot which one it was. Anyone who saw the movie please help.) Then he spoke about Raja in glowing terms. He said that one of his life ambition was to learn atleast one song from 'Tiruvasagam' as tuned by Raja and sing it in Tiruvannamalai. He then sang 'umbargatkarase'. He has no great voice but you can see that he had imbibed the emotional aspect of the song very well. I didn't hear it clearly but I think he said he sang it in front of Raja in Tiruvannamalai and Raja later told him that he had tears in his eyes.

People like Jai and I have been countering the criticism of people who said that Tiruvasagam pieces should not have been sung by Raja, by saying that Raja is the person who can get out the emotion he has in his mind. This piece is an excellent example of how everything, the words, the tune, the accompanying music together create an very emotionally appealing song. As is usual with Raja, accompanying music is not for displaying his knowledge but to add gravitas to the main melody and make it an unforgettable experience. I am happy that the melody has reached a large number of people. Seeing Mayilsamy sing this in his very indifferent voice but with feeling vindicated my strongly held belief that high quality things will definitely end up reaching its intended audience.

[Sureshs65]

Aaah. I now got which song of Raja that Mayilsami sang earlier. "enna petta aatha". Which movie is this from?

[jaiganes]

Yesterday in 'Manadodu Mano' program on Jaya TV, Mayilsamy was the guest. After speaking about MGR and Sivaji songs, he sang a song of Raja. (It was one of Raja's 'Amma'song. Forgot which one it was. Anyone who saw the movie please help.) Then he spoke about Raja in glowing terms. He said that one of his life ambition was to learn atleast one song from 'Tiruvasagam' as tuned by Raja and sing it in Tiruvannamalai. He then sang 'umbargatkarase'. He has no great voice but you can see that he had imbibed the emotional aspect of the song very well. I didn't hear it clearly but I think he said he sang it in front of Raja in Tiruvannamalai and Raja later told him that he had tears in his eyes.

People like Jai and I have been countering the criticism of people who said that Tiruvasagam pieces should not have been sung by Raja, by saying that Raja is the person who can get out the emotion he has in his mind. This piece is an excellent example of how everything, the words, the tune, the accompanying music together create an very emotionally appealing song. As is usual with Raja, accompanying music is not for displaying his knowledge but to add gravitas to the main melody and make it an unforgettable experience. I am happy that the melody has reached a large number of people. Seeing Mayilsamy sing this in his very indifferent voice but with feeling vindicated my strongly held belief that high quality things will definitely end up reaching its intended audience.
Raaja repeats his principle in the MOP interview as well that vidwamsam should reside inside the head and the singer should only sing the necessary emotion when it came to singing devotional songs.
He goes on to say that he couldnt imagine a thyaga brahmam singing the thousands of songs for "old men" to sing. It is for the youth and with the right bhava in the heart. Thiruvasagam is also an effort like that. What one should do is to learn how he has created his emotional grammar in approaching thiruvasagam and approach that colossal epic and reinvent for his/her own. Somewhere someone might be doing just that. who knows..

[Querida]

Aaah. I now got which song of Raja that Mayilsami sang earlier. "enna petta aatha". Which movie is this from?

This song Suresh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1p2_MG5SHE

Yeah there is some confusion as to the movie...sorry didn't really help.

[Sureshs65]

Querida,

Thanks for the link. I know remember this song. I am sure I have it on DVD somewhere which feature a lot of Raja's Amma songs. I vaguely remember this being a Ramarajan song.

[Devaraagam]

suresh,

this is the song, myskin also told to Raja that he sung this during his college days and got 1st prize for 3 yrs..by singing the same song.

[rajkumarc]

The song Ponna Pola Aatha is from the movie Ennai Vittu Pogathe as per rakkamma.com.

Here is the link to the song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z5AXd7yMks&feature=related

[Sureshs65]

rajkumarc,

Thanks. That was the song Mayilsamy sang

[Sunil_M88]

I can't remeber the last time a song has made me feel so agog. At 3mins and 45 secs of Achadicha kaasa, Raaja sir manipulates the listener (me :D) to the point where I wish/beg he composes a fresh song relating to this beautiful instrumental ending.

[jaiganes]

I can't remeber the last time a song has made me feel so agog. At 3mins and 45 secs of Achadicha kaasa, Raaja sir manipulates the listener (me :D) to the point where I wish/beg he composes a fresh song relating to this beautiful instrumental ending.
yes it was much noted and discussed. the sudden movement from a carefree pickpocket song to an "author's note of sympathy" - never felt jarring and music tells so much - the challenge is for the director to reduce volumes in narration... fantastic piece, but absolutely minimalistic.

[Sunil_M88]

I would love to read the discussion, if you have the link?

[jaiganes]

I would love to read the discussion, if you have the link?
it was discussed when the album was released..
http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1797319

[Sunil_M88]

The song that introduced me to Raaja sir, Sitam Ki Aandhi ... (Part 2 is more poignant :cry:) Along with Ilaiyaraaja it equally rides on the shoulders of Hariharan and P. K. Mishra. This song is very close to me.

[V_S]

Sunil,
I am amazed at your interests. Earlier you wrote about Acchadicha Kaasu and now this. Being an NI and also more importantly an ARR fan, normally don't like 'Acchadicha Kaasu' type of songs, but you are different. Definitely that one is a gem which is forgotten. Atleast I am happy that you like it just like us. :thumbsup:

[Sunil_M88]

Sunil,
I am amazed at your interests. Earlier you wrote about Acchadicha Kaasu and now this. Being an NI and also more importantly an ARR fan, normally don't like 'Acchadicha Kaasu' type of songs, but you are different. Definitely that one is a gem which is forgotten. Atleast I am happy that you like it just like us. :thumbsup:

Really appreciate it bro :)

[irir123]

i dont know which thread to pose/ask this question but here it goes:

during the late 80s - i think post 'agni natchatiram', IR began using a certain kind of polyphonic percussion/rhythm sometimes very very complex - often making one wonder as to how he even conjured up such complex patterns!

the percussion base for 'en uyire vaa' or 'ding dong dong - irandum ondrodu' or 'poongatru un per solla', or, 'subhalekha' (the polyphonic sounds in this track is a riot! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu-waXRLXU8 - the interludes and NOT the prelude), or 'vayase tholi' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXvFsQrwyM0 - the prelude percussion wow!)

since 1992-1993, his scores shifted away from the use of such polyphonic percussion arrangements and became more new-age style - the rock ballad like 'arumbum thalire' from chandralekha (1995) or the songs of poovarasan or an IV sasi film (forgot the name, it had the 'siru koottil chinna kokilam irandu' song)

if IR were to revert back to such percussion usage, the present day night club slam bang music crazy junta wud lap it all up for sure!

[irir123]

'manthiram idhu' from avarampoo!

just cant imagine why IR chose such a raga (desh ?) for this situation/song - perhaps one of the alltime classics of Indian film music - the brighas/gamakas, the orchestration (the second interlude is honey) and the rendering by KJY everything oozing class!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0xSsZLTAIc

[Bala (Karthik)]

Isn't it Bhageshree?

[Sureshs65]

Bala,

Where have you been? You just vanished :) Good to see you back.

That song is not in a single raga. It starts with Sriranjani. In certain places Sriranjani resembles Bageshree. Raja's Bageshrees generally give me this mixed feeling. I would probably categorize the pallavi of 'maniram idhu' more as Sreeranjani but saying Bageshree is not off the mark either. In the charanam he clearly morphs it into Desh. 'saayalil mayile, then isai kuyile' where Jesudas does a brief alapana onwards is Desh. He gets back to Sreeranjani in the pallavi.

[jaiganes]

Awesome song..
for a borderline erotica - coming up with classical carnatic - fantastic. only sore point is - does it fit with the milieu or the characters? havent watched the movie.. need to before expanding the wonderment.

[jaiganes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw89F7LWyBo&feature=related
Just hearing the music - doesnt it convey the relief the lead character must be having after all that tumult and turmoil..?