Critics and confusions

[jaiganes]

Lets use this thread to critically analyse whatever happens in the name of criticism of thamizh films.
This is my take on Varanam Aayiram.
http://passionforcinema.com/a-thousand-elephants/
Nerd has mentioned that he finds the movie as 'half baked' and my views on VA are too glorifying.
In my opinion VA is a film, though 'distant' to me because of the demographic it portrays in the movie (urban malayalee family in madras), is still an honest movie while endhiran is a scifi subverted to aachi masala in the crudest form possible. hence I appreciate Vaaranam Aayiram though I cannot accept some points shown in the movie.
Stepping aside from specific movies, lets pull all examples of bad criticism and put it here..[/quote]

[venkkiram]

endhiran is a scifi subverted to aachi masala in the crudest form possible. உங்களுக்கும் சாருவிற்கு உள்ள ஒற்றுமைகள் என்ன; வேற்றுமைகள் என்ன? கொஞ்சம் வெளக்குமாற்றால் வெளக்க முடியுமா?

[Vivasaayi]

endhiran is a scifi subverted to aachi masala in the crudest form possible. உங்களுக்கும் சாருவிற்கு உள்ள ஒற்றுமைகள் என்ன; வேற்றுமைகள் என்ன? கொஞ்சம் வெளக்குமாற்றால் வெளக்க முடியுமா?

Jaiganesh..thodappakattaya eduthutu vaanga..

[Vivasaayi]

How much does the hardwork put behind the movie be considered while weighing the output! Can it be considered at all? For eg., MMKR might(should) had been done relatively easier than dasavatharam - but how much can it help dasa to compete with MMKR?

In endhiran's case does using story boards have any value at all for the person who just watches the output...

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

I wont discard hardwork of any film. For me Hard work shud be respected without doubt.

If a movie is too big budget, big director, music director and a super cast, i look for 2 things

1. Entertainment Quotient
2. Originality
3. Logic ( not at all places, but important pivotal scenes)

[Vivasaayi]

I wont discard hardwork of any film.

oruthan senthil maadhiri kaakaa ootaamaa hard work panni appalathukku Otta potutu irundhannu veyyunga..??

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

you mean trying taking the ocean waters spoon by spoon and filling it in a near by 10 x 10 PaLLam?!?

No. but, in enthiran, we dont know where and what but i respect any hardwork done by anobody in the world. and i dont allow that to mix with the final opinion, review

what effect the movie's onscreen content made on me is what matters for me.

[Nerd]

For the record:

Nobody was saying Enthiran should be appreciated for the *hard work*. I for one was appreciating Shankar's vision which made the job of other technicians easier. Don't twist my (our) words.

[omega]

endhiran is a scifi subverted to aachi masala in the crudest form possible. உங்களுக்கும் சாருவிற்கு உள்ள ஒற்றுமைகள் என்ன; வேற்றுமைகள் என்ன? கொஞ்சம் வெளக்குமாற்றால் வெளக்க முடியுமா?

ஒற்றுமை --> அனைவரும் அறிந்ததே
வேற்றுமை --> சாரு ஓசியாக எந்திரன் பார்த்திருப்பார், நம்ம ஜெய், $18 செலவழித்து படம் பார்த்து வெதும்பி பொயிருக்கார்.

[venkkiram]

For the record:

Nobody was saying Enthiran should be appreciated for the *hard work*. I for one was appreciating Shankar's vision which made the job of other technicians easier. Don't twist my (our) words.

தயக்கமேயில்லாமல் சொல்லலாம், பாராட்டலாம். எந்திரனுக்கு பின்னால் பலரது பல நாள் கடும் உழைப்பு ஷங்கர் என்பவரின் ஆளுமையில், தலைமையில் நடந்தேறியிருக்கிறது. உலகமே ரோபோ படங்கள் எடுத்து தேர்ந்திருந்தாலும், இந்த கன்னி முயற்சி நிச்சயம் சிலாகிக்க வேண்டிய ஒன்று.

[jaiganes]

endhiran is a scifi subverted to aachi masala in the crudest form possible. உங்களுக்கும் சாருவிற்கு உள்ள ஒற்றுமைகள் என்ன; வேற்றுமைகள் என்ன? கொஞ்சம் வெளக்குமாற்றால் வெளக்க முடியுமா?
i am a software engineer and he is a writer.
however it seems we have the same effect on you.

[jaiganes]

For the record:

Nobody was saying Enthiran should be appreciated for the *hard work*. I for one was appreciating Shankar's vision which made the job of other technicians easier. Don't twist my (our) words.
That is a management aspect - not creative. So I guess we have to leave that too at the doorsteps. If someone served me something to eat, I would only rate it going by the taste. If I were to go by the number of hours it was prepared or how efficiently the cook arranged his work area ergonomically - well that is least of my concerns. The dish should be hygenic and tasty and worth the money I spend for ordering it. I think a film critic also works by the same principle.
Apocalypse Now - one of the cult classic films was made after inordinate production delays - it reflects on the inefficiency of the production crew - but as a movie to the viewer it is a classic.
So for all the shankar lovers who appreciate Endhiran for the "sheer effort" or for "Sheer project management skills", it is appreciable - right, but not a factor to review the film.

[Nerd]

I think we are talking about two different things here.

1. Shankar ~= SAC. No, because SAC can't conceive a 3D animated storyboard even in his dreams. You or for that matter anybody liking the film is a different issue, but Shankar has got it in him i.e. creativity, mastery of the craft, how to make his actors act etc which are some of the things essential for a good director. So Shankar is an excellent director. And I repeat the screenwriter is different from a *director*.

2. Enthiran is a bad film. OK, I grant that to you but I just don't agree with your views and thats why I brought up VA as an example. I mean I did not like VA an inch and you seemed to have liked it. So no surprises there, we both look for different things in a film. Another example is VTV - we both are at extremes.

W.r.to Enthiran's sensibilities as a film and Shankar's sensibilities as a director so many examples have been given and of course you or anybody is more than welcome to disgaree with/BS that.

My point, which fuelled the creation of this thread is this: If one disagrees with a critic's view there is no harm in bringing in, the reviews of his for other films and try to understand if that reviewer has been consistent.

[app_engine]

So no surprises there, we both look for different things in a film. Another example is VTV - we both are at extremes.


I think there are tons of movies where possibly Nerd agrees with the critic jaiganes :wink:
(avaL appadiththAn / uthirippookkaL / muLLum malarum as older samples and possibly kaLavANi / Shivaji recent ones)

[Nerd]

I think there are tons of movies where possibly Nerd agrees with the critic jaiganes :wink:

This applies to all critics and their audience. And its actually extremely difficult for a critic to satisfy even one member of the audience, all the time. Baradwaj Rangan usually gets it right but I was shocked to see him praise Vamsam (one example out of many).

[venkkiram]

எவ்வளவுதான் Chocolate ருசியாக இருந்தாலும் அதற்கான Wrapper இல்லன்னா பப்பு வேகாது. சந்தையில் விற்பனையாகாது. ஷங்கர் Chocolate , Wrapper இரண்டையுமே நல்லா செய்து விற்பனை செய்வதில் வல்லவர்.

[jaiganes]

I think we are talking about two different things here.

1. Shankar ~= SAC. No, because SAC can't conceive a 3D animated storyboard even in his dreams. You or for that matter anybody liking the film is a different issue, but Shankar has got it in him i.e. creativity, mastery of the craft, how to make his actors act etc which are some of the things essential for a good director. So Shankar is an excellent director.

2. Enthiran is a bad film. OK, I grant that to you but I just don't agree with your views and thats why I brought up VA as an example. I mean I did not like VA an inch and you seemed to have liked it. So no surprises there, we both look for different things in a film. Another example is VTV - we both are at extremes.

W.r.to Enthiran's sensibilities as a film and Shankar's sensibilities as a director so many examples have been given and of course you are anybody is more than welcome to disgaree with/BS that.

My point, which fuelled the creation of this thread is this: If one disagrees with a critic's view there is no harm in bringing in, the reviews of his for other films and try to understand if that reviewer has been consistent.

Fair enough - please do not think that i got offended and that is why this new thread. I found that it is genuine not to accept a critic or reviewer's take on a film. If we can understand what aspects make a film likeable to one and unacceptable to a critic we can better understand how we appreciate movies.
Let me try my best to cover your 3 bullets.
1. SAC Vs Shankar - now this point came up because we were discussing - content wise what is Shankar formula and how different it is from SAC formula. However you and maddy took it as a personal offense on Shankar the person himself and started taking sides. As a follow up you have come up with a few points - but all of that is "Technique" or "method". how things were made. Well as a member of audience I have very little curiosity on "making" aspect. whether callsheets of "Stars" were well planned or not etc.,
2. you bringing VA into the picture is perfectly OK. you did that to check if I have applied the same yard sticks to all the movies I write about. Fair enough and honestly that is how we can appreciate a true critic - one who is honest about his/her views on what a "good film" is and as a reader we have to only compare past reviews to say if the current piece is consistent or not. However I want you to read through VA post and see if my views have changed or not. Do you think that I am a Gowtham Menon fan putting trash into endhiran thread? not possible because VTV was much hated by me and it is a well known fact.
VA - as a film is not something I loved - in fact I have mentioned that it did not catch me and make me appreciate that, yet I had to acknowledge that it was not a film that wanted me to do that - it was honest. Whereas Endhiran lacks this basic honesty. It has a flawed view on humanity - its sum decision is summarized as
1. human feelings for humanoid robots is a bad thing - because the robots will go crazy and { human feelings = (and only=) love for a woman}. - That is such a stupid conclusion to arrive at after all that first half buildup. To justify this conclusion there is a bloodbath in the climax - which is too much even if one accepts the special effects glitz.
2. human society doesnt need robots - why? no certain answer is given - a rather SAC like conclusion is arrived at - without much deliberation - that is the reason why I say that scifi genre which is all about deliberate meditation on human existence is dumbed down to aachi masala level. And content wise this is exactly what SAC would have done - hypothetically - because SAC wisely wouldnt indulge in scifi and would barely make movies in this budget.

[jaiganes]

எவ்வளவுதான் Chocolate ருசியாக இருந்தாலும் அதற்கான Wrapper இல்லன்னா பப்பு வேகாது. சந்தையில் விற்பனையாகாது. ஷங்கர் Chocolate , Wrapper இரண்டையுமே நல்லா செய்து விற்பனை செய்வதில் வல்லவர்.

Ok .we are not discussing Shankar's abilities here. please take it to the endhiran thread or the Best director thread.

[jaiganes]

@Nerd - To be fair to Baradwaj Rangan - he was writing a piece on sophomore efforts of Susindran and Pandiraj and he was complementing Pandiraj in that light alone.

I have a different take on Vamsam - which I liked it as a good screenplay, but as a content there were many regressive elements in it which makes it a pot of milk with drops of poison.

[thamiz]

Jaiganes:

Nice thread! :lol:

[thamiz]

jaiganes: If you see SAC's influence on Shankar creativity. Do you see BM's influence on Bala's work.

Bala never has got influenced by (or copied) hollywood films. But BM cant think of anything original! :)

[jaiganes]

jaiganes: If you see SAC's influence on Shankar creativity. Do you see BM's influence on Bala's work.

Bala never has got influenced (or copy) hollywood films. But BM cant think of anything original! :)

BM's influence on Bala's work is absolutely evident!!
It thankfully (or not) is not in the choice of subjects, but in scene setting, drama and narration.
In case of shankar and SAC - prime theme always involves around human corruption and intervening role of law and justice (court climaxes or people courts aplenty)...

[thamiz]

jaiganes: If you see SAC's influence on Shankar creativity. Do you see BM's influence on Bala's work.

Bala never has got influenced (or copy) hollywood films. But BM cant think of anything original! :)

BM's influence on Bala's work is absolutely evident!!
It thankfully (or not) is not in the choice of subjects, but in scene setting, drama and narration.
In case of shankar and SAC - prime theme always involves around human corruption and intervening role of law and justice (court climaxes or people courts aplenty)...

Well, in endhiran, the PLOT is way off from the problems SAC (court, law blah blah) used to address or not?

[venkkiram]

In case of shankar and SAC - prime theme always involves around human corruption and intervening role of law and justice (court climaxes or people courts aplenty)... ஆஹா! ரொம்பவே நல்லாப் போகுது திரி. நடத்துங்க! SAC-ஐ ஷங்கரோடு ஒப்பிடும் எந்த விமர்சகரைக் காட்டிலும் ஒரு சாதாரண வெகுஜன மனிதரின் பார்வை தரமானது என நினைக்கிறேன்.

இன்றைய விமர்சகர்களால் ஷங்கர் மதிக்கப்பட நாமெல்லாம் இன்னும் 25 வருடங்கள் பொறுத்திருக்க வேண்டும். அன்றைய நாளில் SAC-ஐ எல்லாம் ஒரு இயக்குனராக மதிக்காத விமர்சகர்கள் இன்றைக்கு அவரையும் மதிப்பதைப் போல, நாளை இன்னொரு இயக்குனர் வணிக ரீதியாக வெற்றியடையும் போது ஷங்கரின் அருமைகள், பெருமைகள் எல்லாம் தோண்டி எடுக்கப்படும்.

[jaiganes]

In case of shankar and SAC - prime theme always involves around human corruption and intervening role of law and justice (court climaxes or people courts aplenty)...ஆஹா! ரொம்பவே நல்லாப் போகுது திரி. நடத்துங்க! SAC-ஐ ஷங்கரோடு ஒப்பிடும் எந்த விமர்சகரைக் காட்டிலும் ஒரு சாதாரண வெகுஜன மனிதரின் பார்வை தரமானது என நினைக்கிறேன்.
Again you are confusing content with capability. shankar's credentials as a mega director on a huge scale and his successes are not being compared or discussed here.
Also vegujanam is not free from opinions . most ppls blogs are pretty much vegu janam opinion only. But days when crap content could be protected from criticism in the guise of "paamara janaranjagam" are over.

[m_23_bayarea]

Also vegujanam is not free from opinions . most ppls blogs are pretty much vegu janam opinion only. But days when crap content could be protected from criticism in the guise of "paamara janaranjagam" are over.

But sadly, good content being protected from crap reviews and analysis, cynical and pessimistic criticism with usage of sophisticated English verbiage, in the name of intellect, A-class, literate, and global tastes, and what not is far from over yet! :(

[jaiganes]

Also vegujanam is not free from opinions . most ppls blogs are pretty much vegu janam opinion only. But days when crap content could be protected from criticism in the guise of "paamara janaranjagam" are over.

But sadly, good content being protected from crap reviews and analysis, cynical and pessimistic criticism with usage of sophisticated English verbiage, in the name of intellect, A-class, literate, and global tastes, and what not is far from over yet! :(
that is just beginning... Andho enna paridhaabam..

[Plum]

In all the discussions, what I find curious is the notion that any criticism of Shankar has to be intellectual snobbery. Why? Why is Shankar above Criticism? Why am I obliged to say good of his movies and him just because a lot of people like them?
Bay, why can't you simply accept that he cannot be engaging to 100 percent of the population? Why do you have to hide under "ivaingalukku shankar pidikkaadhu adhaan poi solraanga"?

Why this insecurity? Ofcourse, he is not IR or ARR or Maniratnam or Kamal/Rajini in talent and stature so insecurity is bound to be there among people who want to somehow elevate him to the same status... I can understand that :)

[Vivasaayi]

Why this insecurity? Ofcourse, he is not IR or ARR or Maniratnam or Kamal/Rajini in talent and stature so insecurity is bound to be there among people who want to somehow elevate him to the same status... I can understand that :)

Adhaan idikudhu!...when someone is trying to elevate him to the status of Maniratnam - noone has issues. But when someone tries to pull down (according to them) to SAC.....adhu mattum aagaadhaa?

[NOV]

Adhaan idikudhu!...when someone is trying to elevate him to the status of Maniratnam - noone has issues. But when someone tries to pull down (according to them) to SAC.....adhu mattum aagaadhaa?Yes, yes, try equating IR with SAR... :yessir:

[jaiganes]

Adhaan idikudhu!...when someone is trying to elevate him to the status of Maniratnam - noone has issues. But when someone tries to pull down (according to them) to SAC.....adhu mattum aagaadhaa?Yes, yes, try equating IR with SAR... :yessir:
enna NOV moththama oru 5 paer iruppoma IRai side vangaradhukku?
IR oru garvee, humility illaadha aalu. SAR panivin uchcham appdinu sollungaLen andha 5 paer kooda sari dhaannu sollitu poitte iruppOm. Unga pseudo intellectual credentialsai certify panna maattom.

[m_karthik]

Why is Shankar above Criticism?
Why this insecurity? Ofcourse, he is not IR or ARR or Maniratnam or Kamal/Rajini in talent and stature so insecurity is bound to be there among people who want to somehow elevate him to the same status...


Raavanan discussions la Maniratnam ku idhey madhiri nadanduchu..
Raavanan and Endhiran songs release time la ARR..

Ippo ivanga rendu perum pathi pesuravanga secure ah pesaraangala???



Bay, why can't you simply accept that he cannot be engaging to 100 percent of the population? Why do you have to hide under "ivaingalukku shankar pidikkaadhu adhaan poi solraanga"?


Why he has to engage 100%? So when a negative criticism comes.. easiest defence is "ivaingalukku shankar pidikkaadhu adhaan poi solraanga"

Chaaru madhiri aalunga irukira varaikkum 100% kandippa endha kombanaalayum vaanga mudiyadhu..

[Plum]

Who said he has to engage 100%? I am just saying you cannot claim that the small % that is not impressed by Shankar is not honest, which is what Bay, venkkiram and co. are saying(Venkki went to the extent of bringing in veLakkamAru :lol:). Why is this hard to understand?

Nov, if you think calmly, you(and everyone here) will accept that

IR:SAR != Shankar:SAC
You dont have to agree oublicly but unga manasukkuLLayE indha equation sariyA thappAnnu yOsichukOnga. nyAyam dharmamnu oNNu irukku.

[m_karthik]

Who said he has to engage 100%? I am just saying you cannot claim that the small % that is not impressed by Shankar is not honest, which is what Bay, venkkiram and co. are saying(Venkki went to the extent of bringing in veLakkamAru :lol:). Why is this hard to understand?

Nov, if you think calmly, you(and everyone here) will accept that

IR:SAR != Shankar:SAC
You dont have to agree oublicly but unga manasukkuLLayE indha equation sariyA thappAnnu yOsichukOnga. nyAyam dharmamnu oNNu irukku.

IR:SAR ku pogavae vendam...
Shankar:SAC thevai illainnu thaan solraanga..
Adhey nyayam dharmathoda ellorum ninacha indha unmaiyum puriyum..

Shankar padam pudikalainaa..pudikalainnu sollittu poitae irukalaamla.. Yaarum adhukku onnumae solla maataangannu ninaikkiren.. Adhu yaen SAC kooda compare pannanum??

[Plum]

Padam pArkarachE SAC gnAbagam vandhadhAl dhAne avvARu kUrinOm?

80's la neraiya SAC padam pArthadhu en kuththamA irukkalAm. If most of you know the 80s SAC first hand, as Jai does, you can see where we are coming from.

IR(orARR or even vidyasagar) is SAR levelnu solRadhu is a totally different ball game. Idhu totally vidhandAvAdham

[NOV]

Jai & Plum, my point has escaped you. :cry:
compare pannuratharkkum oru tharaatharam vEnumnu thaan naan sonnEn.

So, I definitely agree with your equation of IR:SAR = Shankar:SAC
meaning, that these kind of comparison is ridiculous!

END

[m_karthik]

Shankar, SAC kooda irundhadhu very less time..May be only in 1990..Seetha also released that year...

He was with Pavithran more time than SAC.. Shankarae, SAC kitta irundha onnum velaikku aagadhunnu thaan veliyilae vandhu irupparu.. Idhula avar kitta irundhu kathukittu vandhaarnu solradhu namba mudiyadhu...

[Plum]

karthik, you still havent understood. I am not going into what Shankar learnt from SAC, viceversa, level of skills even.
Simple statement - watching Endhiran, I felt once again that Shankar's sensibility matches a lot with SAC. ivLO dhAn matter. For example, if you can say my sensibility matches with Jai(correct or not), it is just a function of what we are at this moment. It doesnt mean he shaped my sensibility or vice versa, although reading each other might have had a miniscule effect of influencing each other. Bottom line, it so happens that the net result of our growing up times, the influences we had seem to be that a lot of our sensibilities match(and some emphatically dont), although I know him only for a very brief time, and that, too, as a virtual being.

idhai oru personal insult on ShankarA eduthukka thevai illai.

[m_karthik]

Athana directors/padam irukkum bodhu...yaen SAC padam mattum thaan kidachaadha compare panradhukku.. Assistant director ah irundhadhu naalathaanae.. Could be from lot of inspirations from many directors also..

I got what u r trying to say.. But why SAC???? vera director vachu compare pannunga pleaseee :)

[m_karthik]

Btw Plum, do u like SAC's films?

[Sanjeevi]

waiting for more fun :)

[P_R]

JG, you may consider editing out the word "their" in the thread title. That way we can broaden the scope of discussion to confusion of the critics as well as confusion 'about' the critics :-)

[P_R]

ஆஹா! ரொம்பவே நல்லாப் போகுது திரி. நடத்துங்க! SAC-ஐ ஷங்கரோடு ஒப்பிடும் எந்த விமர்சகரைக் காட்டிலும் ஒரு சாதாரண வெகுஜன மனிதரின் பார்வை தரமானது என நினைக்கிறேன்.

எந்த விஷயத்தில் ஒப்பீடு என்பதைப் பொருத்தது அது. விவாதமே sensibility பற்றியது என்பது என் புரிதல். அதில் உள்ள ஒரு மத்திய வர்க்க சமூக எதிர்பார்ப்புகள், கோபம் போன்றவை (இந்தியாவை வல்லரசாக விடாமல் தடுக்கும் இடர்களை களைபிடுங்குவோம், பலாத்காரத்திலிருதுகாக்கும் ரட்சகன் ..வகையறா) SACயின் 'பார்வை'யிலிருந்து தரவிறக்கம் செய்துகொள்ளப்பட்டவை என்பது தெளிவு.

அது பலருக்கு மேற்கொண்டு ரசிக்கத் தடையாக இருப்பதாக சொல்வதும் புரிந்துகொள்ளத்தக்கதே. நல்லவேளையாக எனக்கு அப்படி இல்லை.

ஜெய் இந்த மேல்பூச்சு படமாகாது என்று சொல்கிறார் (என்று நினைக்கிறேன்). அது ஒரு கருத்து :-)

ஆனால், அதை என்னவோ எந்திரன் = மாண்புமிகு மாணவன் என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.[/quote]

[MADDY]

But why SAC???? vera director vachu compare pannunga pleaseee :)

neenga yenga avaru kitta kenjureenga :lol: ........

[MADDY]

எந்த விஷயத்தில் ஒப்பீடு என்பதைப் பொருத்தது அது. விவாதமே sensibility பற்றியது என்பது என் புரிதல். அதில் உள்ள ஒரு மத்திய வர்க்க சமூக எதிர்பார்ப்புகள், கோபம் போன்றவை (இந்தியாவை வல்லரசாக விடாமல் தடுக்கும் இடர்களை களைபிடுங்குவோம், பலாத்காரத்திலிருதுகாக்கும் ரட்சகன் ..வகையறா) SACயின் 'பார்வை'யிலிருந்து தரவிறக்கம் செய்துகொள்ளப்பட்டவை என்பது தெளிவு

India vallarasu and SAC - i think its a joke, becos i have never seen this point from SAC - he has always been a commentator on loopholes of the law......his movies reek communism and a cynicism of india and its law, which is the basis of our social structure and economics.........whereas shankar is a rightist to the T, glorifying brahmins and trying to paint "anything is well" for country's growth........

even christopher nolan at a superficial level made batman forever, which was a vigilante story and hence he has acquired SAC sensibility???.........infact much before SAC, kannadasan made a terrific "karuppu panam" which can be taken as shankar's inspiration and sensibility, illaya, why SAC?? did he invent vigilante stuff in IF..........everyone of us, i.e the middle-class have the same sensibility - kill the corrupt, burn the rapists,--- the people who stop country's growth - so all of us share SAC's sensibility? :lol2:

seri, adha ellam viduvom, gentleman - investigation sequence - SAC can nevaire......the treatment to the subject is pretty precise and razor sharp from shankar minus the banality of SAC.......

[groucho070]

When critics are mentioned, I am reminded of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkz83VFEk1A

check out 0:48 onwards :lol:

[P_R]

btw I am not sure if this is what Jai meant by 'sensibility', this was just my guess, I may have got it wrong.


..........everyone of us, middle-class have the same sensibility - kill the corrupt, burn the rapists, f*** the people who stop country's growth - so all of us are SAC's students? :lol2:
These are the points where Shankar overlaps with SAC, isn't it?
indha seemingly righteous anger of the podhumakkaLs. That is all that is being said. If your point is, it is not just SAC, but a whole lot of others, that's fine too.

When anniyan was out, the natural reaction was 'eththanai?' wasn't it?

The point being made, that kind of core poses a problem for many, preventing them from appreciating his technical prowess. Quite gettable, no?

For me, the flawed 'politics' of a film has never stood in the way of me enjoying it. Many would call Gentleman's core sly (anti reservation masquerading as 'education for the poor'). As I don't credit that much social cunning to sangarji, I only call it dumb. But that does not make the film any less enjoyable for me - as I've tried to elaborate with examples.

That's not because the politics in film does not interest me. Just that, IMO, hereabout, except Kamal, no one is competent to make political points in film, which are worthy of serious consideration.

The incidental politics of film spring from analyses which are deeper than the maker was equal to, does not interest me at all. Remember the Kadhalan analyses in EPW I posted here long back :lol:

Sangarji's endslide in Sivaji - ellArum debit card, 2020il karuppu paNam ozhindhadhu etc. is a 'rightu vidu' moment. I don't burden myself with defending that for the sake of 'bajji saapdu' which is a 'this ees what I want' scene.

[P_R]

I thing இந்தத் திரியில் விவாதிப்பவர்களை மூன்றாகப் பிரிக்கலாம்.

Set I
Rankled by politics/sensibilities so I can't get absorbed enough to appreciate - Flau, JG

Set II
Politics is not as dumb as is being made out to be, the films are kood wonly - MADDY, venkirau

Set III
Dumb politics but as a storyteller he is kood only no ? - git_klove, I yam

[groucho070]

What is the thread exactly about?

Benchmarking? Yardsticking? :huh:

[MADDY]

Set II
Politics is not as dumb as is being made out to be, the films are kood wonly - MADDY, venkirau

irrespective of the politics and flawed scripts - shankar keeps us engaged is my point

[MADDY]

The point being made, that kind of core poses a problem for many, preventing them from appreciating his technical prowess. Quite gettable, no?

but bracketing shankar along with SAC due to this is pretty much unacceptable - r u getting my point??

[MADDY]

What is the thread exactly about?

Benchmarking? Yardsticking? :huh:

its abt sense and sensibility

[P_R]

The point being made, that kind of core poses a problem for many, preventing them from appreciating his technical prowess. Quite gettable, no?

but bracketing shankar along with SAC due to this is pretty much unacceptable - r u getting my point??

Bracketing on the basis of what 'ngradhu dhaan panjAyathu.

Whatever be the basis, they are leagues, apart, no overlap-nu solreengaLA. In which case I disagree.

[Cinemarasigan]

What is the thread exactly about?

Benchmarking? Yardsticking? :huh:

To discuss about the confusions arising out of Criticism :)

[groucho070]

What is the thread exactly about?

Benchmarking? Yardsticking? :huh:

its abt sense and sensibility :D And you know this will end up with Pride and Prejudice :wink:

[Thirumaran]

Critics and Confessions nnu poattu discuss pannaa innum interesting aa irukkum :mrgreen:

[MADDY]

Critics and Confessions nnu poattu discuss pannaa innum interesting aa irukkum :mrgreen:

yen, confessions of married men-nnu poettuttu pesalaame :lol:

[Thirumaran]

Critics and Confessions nnu poattu discuss pannaa innum interesting aa irukkum :mrgreen:

yen, confessions of married men-nnu poettuttu pesalaame :lol:

Atha misc section la open pannalaam :goodidea: Lady hubbers kku time pass aa irukkum..

[MADDY]

Bracketing on the basis of what 'ngradhu dhaan panjAyathu.

Whatever be the basis, [u]they are leagues, apart,[u] no overlap-nu solreengaLA. In which case I disagree.

idhula enna sandhegam

overlap in terms of sensibilities(?) is pretty broad and u can put Christopher Nolan too on that basis.......Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC :D


And you know this will end up with Pride and Prejudice

Emma :lol:

[MADDY]

btw, critic na yaaru?? to me, one who can deconstruct the work of a artiste and judge its merits/demerits in the same alignment as the artiste had constructed it - i think Baradwajar, feeyar, equa, compli, kitglove are some of the best i have seen and read....... 8-)

[groucho070]

feeyar, equa, compli, kitglove are some of the best i have seen and read....... 8-)+1, with estra bonus point for K-G for sharing lots of my favs as well. :D

[P_R]

overlap in terms of sensibilities(?) is pretty broad and u can put Christopher Nolan too on that basis
Degree-nu pArthA SAC dissance remba kammi illaiyA.

btw Nolar is not an outlandish comparator whose invocation automatically defeats the argument. There are many who take umbrage to (what they perceive to be) the politics of 'The Dark Knight'.


who can deconstruct the work of a artiste and judge its merits/demerits in the same alignment as the artiste had constructed it Dontach! idhu oru thani panjAyathu. :lol2:

[Plum]

Thanks Frabhu Rau, that sums it up. Plus, I have to confess that Kamal morphing into an eagle and all - appOvE thAnga muidyala.
So, indha song sequences, one of the most appreciated aspects of sangarji, is a big impediment for me.
In Endhiran, the whole set of that kAppagam sequences, neighbourhood dude, SV Sangeedha walking into pEttai against mAriyAtha sound speakers, Sangeedha literally getting molested by the said neighbourhood dude and friends, then a Agmark SAC scene in the Electric train....ipdi sollikittE pOgalAm.

Many people credited Sujatha for cutting the hand of policeman for "vettu" etc of Chitti. I dont know who, but none of that was interesting to me. The sueprficiality of it(whether Sujatha or Sangar) all.

As I said, the only the Chitti 1.0-> Chitti 2.0 transition moments -where the robot falls in love but retains its innocence and the few near-teenage-fancy sequences - that's where I sat up.

Adhukkappuram BrahmANdam, graphics etc, idhellAm non-SAC territory ofcourse but left me cold.

So, brahmANdam, graphics - aspects of Shankar that dont appeal to me anyway. Not his fault

Some engaging moments with the robot in love - pass

But the predominant memory I took out was the SAC stuff in the first half because I switched off during the brahmANdam part and it did not register much. The in-between parts were too miniscule to leave a lasting impact.

As a director, if he is better than SAC by miles, it is not something I am concerned with.

Bottomline, to add a nuance to Frabhu Rau, I have no problems with his politics(however superficial) - I mean, one appreciated A Wednesday despite its flawed politics and naivette. But the sensibility - to add a point to this, the glossiness that git_klove spoke about - leaves me cold. That is that.

Why I was reminded of SAC instead of someone else? I dont know - the answer is perhaps that I have seen way too many SAC films.

[MADDY]

overlap in terms of sensibilities(?) is pretty broad and u can put Christopher Nolan too on that basis
Degree-nu pArthA SAC dissance remba kammi illaiyA.

btw Nolar is not an outlandish comparator whose invocation automatically defeats the argument. There are many who take umbrage to (what they perceive to be) the politics of 'The Dark Knight'.

im saying sensibility is not a criteria here at all........btw, Nolar-um SAC-um ore sensibility-nnu solrela?? puriyala :roll:

[MADDY]

In Endhiran, the whole set of that kAppagam sequences, neighbourhood dude, SV Sangeedha walking into pEttai against mAriyAtha sound speakers, Sangeedha literally getting molested by the said neighbourhood dude and friends, then a Agmark SAC scene in the Electric train....ipdi sollikittE pOgalAm.

10A-la kooda andha madhiri scene irukku, yen ippa varra ella masala padangalayum (hero hitting villain, villain coming back with his adi-aals) scene irukku - idhu eppadi SAZ invention aagum


I took out was the SAC stuff in the first half because I switched off during the brahmANdam part and it did not register much. The in-between parts were too miniscule to leave a lasting impact.

Why I was reminded of SAC instead of someone else? I dont know - the answer is perhaps that I have seen way too many SAC films.

i hope u didnt see SAC in naan kadavul and pithamagan :lol:

[P_R]

MADDY, I meant paaltiks.

Reg. sensibilty, Flau post above, has specific examples of sequences in enthiran explaining what he means. SAC is placeholder (but a nEchural kambErisan). You could say - to invoke another panjing bag - Perarasu too. The point is, the sequences and build up to them are very commonplace. That doesn't rankle at all.

[P_R]

Flau, ungaLukku indha Hollywood brammANda action films ellAm pudikkumA pudikkAdhA?

andha kaalathula, I watched Independence Day twice in two days when it released. Conception and execution are pretty much everything. Characterization is vandhavarai laabam.

Usually our Holywood range films add a * mark that says 'budget applies'. And there is little in the work that promises much better would have been accomplished if budget were not a constraiint. (meesai ozhunga irundhaa mattum pOyi parliament-la pEsiruviyA?)

Enthiran's action sequences are not without edges. But you can surely feel that in terms of conception and execution they really made the impact.

Gentleman was new. Did we have lorries falling off the bridge before that. I don't think so. But the rest of his films have not had that great stunts to follow-up IMO. The celebrated Anniyan fights were IMO - clumsy - the vibration vadivelu types hitting multiple people at the same time etc. So I went in with a lots of skepticism about the grand climax in Enthiran that everyone was talking about.

I was impressed beyond all that.

It is a skill in itself. And in that I think, with Enthiran, Shankar is pretty much achieved a unique position.

[Plum]

In Endhiran, the whole set of that kAppagam sequences, neighbourhood dude, SV Sangeedha walking into pEttai against mAriyAtha sound speakers, Sangeedha literally getting molested by the said neighbourhood dude and friends, then a Agmark SAC scene in the Electric train....ipdi sollikittE pOgalAm.

10A-la kooda andha madhiri scene irukku, yen ippa varra ella masala padangalayum (hero hitting villain, villain coming back with his adi-aals) scene irukku - idhu eppadi SAZ invention aagum


I took out was the SAC stuff in the first half because I switched off during the brahmANdam part and it did not register much. The in-between parts were too miniscule to leave a lasting impact.

Why I was reminded of SAC instead of someone else? I dont know - the answer is perhaps that I have seen way too many SAC films.

i hope u didnt see SAC in naan kadavul and pithamagan :lol:
Maddy, that is a nice repartee. avLO dhAn. You are intelligent enough to have understood what I meant. So I dont have to explain anything to you - you know exactly what I mean, but you perhaps want to somehow discredit the SAC comparison. You are welcome to. As far as I am concerned, I have made a valid comparison and have explained it. thassall

[Poornima]

the peg of cornered man breaking away and turning against the system is something Shankar has clearly carried over from SAC, the way I see it. the very surface, arm-chair angst channeled by Shankar's own boy B.Shaktivel in the underrated Samurai. but well, BS missed the mix there and did the famous detour.
for me, the politics -- as monochrome and dip-stick as it gets -- is still the most interesting deal while deconstucting Shankar as a maker. expressways and towering facades are his development indices and at that level, his work runs on photoshop realism. but there have been too many original, stand-out moments for us to bracket him with SAC or KSR. about the Sujata influence, AFAIK, the collaboration has been on dialogue and not on screenplay.
that apart, as Nerd says, the vision (ambition, more like) also makes him a decidedly greater filmmaker vis-a-vis SAC. he can dabble with cheeky wish-listing of India as Vallarasu and follow it up with a Kanavu Meippada Vendum footnote/disclaimer. the sensibilities are contentious but he more than makes up with the overall experience on offer, IMO.

[Plum]

Flau, ungaLukku indha Hollywood brammANda action films ellAm pudikkumA pudikkAdhA?

andha kaalathula, I watched Independence Day twice in two days when it released. Conception and execution are pretty much everything. Characterization is vandhavarai laabam.

Usually our Holywood range films add a * mark that says 'budget applies'. And there is little in the work that promises much better would have been accomplished if budget were not a constraiint. (meesai ozhunga irundhaa mattum pOyi parliament-la pEsiruviyA?)

Enthiran's action sequences are not without edges. But you can surely feel that in terms of conception and execution they really made the impact.

Gentleman was new. Did we have lorries falling off the bridge before that. I don't think so. But the rest of his films have not had that great stunts to follow-up IMO. The celebrated Anniyan fights were IMO - clumsy - the vibration vadivelu types hitting multiple people at the same time etc. So I went in with a lots of skepticism about the grand climax in Enthiran that everyone was talking about.

I was impressed beyond all that.

It is a skill in itself. And in that I think, with Enthiran, Shankar is pretty much achieved a unique position.

mhmm.. aallywood also same response. Godzilla-lAmE koyandha thanamA irukkunnu pAdhila ezhundhu vandhuttEn.

adhai vidunga - "World is not Enough-la" nadula 30 minutes seat-layE thoongi sAdhanai purindhavan nAn.

Yeah, I have put up my hands and said, I am not the right person to comment on brahmANdam and graphics

[Plum]

And it was a friend who sponsored World is Not Enough for me - in U.K so he spent a good 10 pounds on it. mersal AyittAn.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

[tscii:f71e6260f9]Some say Sankar is Digital Perarasu. some said he is hi-tech Ramanarayanan. now this SAC.

see the sumaal list i googled! Ramanarayananukku vantha Vaazvhu!

http://www.luckylookonline.com/2010/10/9001.html
அசத்தலான படத்துக்கு திருஷ்டிபொட்டாக க்ளைமேக்ஸ். இராம.நாராயணன் கொஞ்சம் ஹைடெக்காக, தாராளாமாக செலவழித்து எடுத்தால் இதைவிட பர்ஃபெக்டான க்ளைமேக்ஸை எடுத்துவிடுவார்.

http://charuonline.com/blog/?p=1210
’மஸ்கிடோ மோட்’ என்ற பட்டனைத் தட்டுகிறார்; உடனே அவரால் மஸ்கிடோவிடம் பேச முடிகிறது. அது சரி ஐயா, மஸ்கிடோக்களுக்கு எப்படித் தமிழ் தெரியும்? மூச்; படம் பூராவும் ஷங்கர் அண்ட் கோ நம் காதில் சுற்றும் பூவுக்கு அளவே இல்லை. பலரும் எந்திரனை ராம. நாராயணன் படம் என்று சொல்வதற்கு இதுதான் காரணம். அவர் படத்தில்தான் யானை பேசும்; பூனை பேசும்; பாம்பு பேசும். அப்படி ஒரு படத்தை எடுத்து விட்டு ஷங்கர் எப்படி இதை சயன்ஸ் ஃபிக்*ஷன் என்கிறார் என்று புரியவில்லை.

http://www.karundhel.com/2010/10/2010.html
இரண்டு வருடங்களாக, நூற்றைம்பது கோடி செலவில் ஒரு படத்தை எடுத்து வெளியிட்டிருக்கும் ஷங்கர், தனக்கும் ராம நாராயணனுக்கும் எந்த வித்தியாசமும் இல்லை என்று அழுத்தம் திருத்தமாக நிரூபித்திருக்கிறார்.

http://writervisa.blogspot.com/2010/10/blog-post_1380.html
சங்கர் பையா!!! சுஜாதா சாபுசிரில் ரகுமான் கொண்டைமான் ரசுல் பூகுட்டி ஒரு கோடிக்கு ஒரு ஜெட்டி 150 கோடி ரஜினி ஐஸ்வர்யா இதெல்லாம் கெட்ச்சா ராமநாராயணன் இத விட சூப்பரா எடுப்பாரு. 'சங்கர் மைனஸ் மேலே சொன்ன கூட்டணி = ராமநாராயணன்' அப்படின்னு புரூப் பண்ணிட்ட.

http://kaargipages.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/enthiran-p1/
இது தான் ஹாலிவுட் தர கற்பனையா? இதே இருநூற்றம்பது கோடியைத் தூக்கி இராம நாராயணனிடம் கொடுத்திருந்தால் இதைவிட அருமையான ஒரு படத்தை எடுத்திருப்பார்.

http://www.athishaonline.com/2010/10/blog-post.html
கிளைமாக்ஸ் காட்சி படு சொதப்பலாக இருந்தது. அதிலும் ரோபோக்கள் இணைந்து ராட்சசனாக நடந்து வருகிற காட்சியை ராமநாராயணன் குட்டிபிசாசு படத்தில் ஒருமுறையும், ஜகன்மோகினி படத்தில் தண்ணீராய் நமீதா நடந்துவருவதாகவும் காட்டிவிட்டார்கள். அது போக தினமும் போகோவில் ஒளிபரப்பாகும் பவர்ரேஞ்சர்ஸ் தொடரின் எல்லா எபிசோட் கிளைமாக்ஸும் அதுதானே!

http://bit.ly/cxYDXp
http://itsmeena.wordpress.com
Climax Fight சில amateur Hollywood படங்களை போல இருந்தது. நம்ம ராம நாராயணன் இதை விட பிரம்மாதமா அனிமேஷன் பண்ணிருப்பார்.

horse mouth
http://rajinifans.com/latest_news_detail.html?rId=1489
ராமநாராயணன் படம் போல உள்ளது என்று (விமர்சனம் எழுதி) கூறி வயித்தெரிச்சலை தணித்துக்கொண்டு உள்ளார்கள்

Now, the graphics ain't that bad at all, its opposite.

As i said b4 itself, shankar is basically a Mass Masala director who can cook the right masala to become blockbuster. He has his own plus and minus. All the above -ve critisicms are only for his minuses. He has his own Plus which nobody has.[/tscii:f71e6260f9]

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

bottomline, that SAC comparison is too weak to justify(IMHO)

[Plum]

SKV, nInga nejamAvE Rama Narayan comparison weak-nu solRIngaLA? illai apdiyE nice-A indha Rama Narayanan comparison-ai start paNdrIngaLA? indha vElai ellAM nAn dhAn patent paNNi irukkEn theriyumO?

[Bala (Karthik)]

:lol:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Flau,

Vaazkaila ellaa kelvikkume binary aa bathil ethirpaakkaatheenga!

thread title laye 'konpees' vachikittu, well'aa ask'ureenga deetailu :lol:

[Thirumaran]

People are worried only for comparision with SAC. Ramanarayanan comparision might be ok with them. :P

[MADDY]

People are worried only for comparision with SAC. Ramanarayanan comparision might be ok with them. :P

Sam Anderson padam yaarukku yaaro director yaaru?? avara kooda vechhu compare pannalaam :P

[Thirumaran]

People are worried only for comparision with SAC. Ramanarayanan comparision might be ok with them. :P

Sam Anderson padam yaarukku yaaro director yaaru?? avara kooda vechhu compare pannalaam :P

ennamo intha padangaloada heroes comparision varaikkum poagaama irunthaa sari :shaking:

[MADDY]

People are worried only for comparision with SAC. Ramanarayanan comparision might be ok with them. :P

Sam Anderson padam yaarukku yaaro director yaaru?? avara kooda vechhu compare pannalaam :P

ennamo intha padangaloada heroes comparision varaikkum poagaama irunthaa sari :shaking:

ada, adha thaan edhirpaakuren-nnu dhairiyama sollunga :lol:

[Thirumaran]

People are worried only for comparision with SAC. Ramanarayanan comparision might be ok with them. :P

Sam Anderson padam yaarukku yaaro director yaaru?? avara kooda vechhu compare pannalaam :P

ennamo intha padangaloada heroes comparision varaikkum poagaama irunthaa sari :shaking:

ada, adha thaan edhirpaakuren-nnu dhairiyama sollunga :lol:
:rotfl2: :hammer: not interested in night duty :fishgrin:

[Nerd]

the peg of cornered man breaking away and turning against the system is something Shankar has clearly carried over from SAC, the way I see it. .
True, nobody denied this thus far. But reducing Shankar to just that is a superficial way of looking at things. Also I for one was saying that Shankar as a writer is ordinary (much better than SAC and the likes of course) and he sure has inherited this, I mean 'one man turning against the system' from SAC which is very basic - at the writing level.

[Plum]

Nerd, obviously it is not just the vigilante part. Sufficient discourse has been provided from our side. Please to read. idhukku mEla solla sattiyila oNNum illai

[venkkiram]

I mean 'one man turning against the system' from SAC which is very basic - at the writing level. that idea too SAC wud have adopted from mu.ka - parasakthi.

[Ramakrishna]

enna irunthaalum neenga SAC kooda compare pannathu thappu.

[Nerd]

Nerd, obviously it is not just the vigilante part. Sufficient discourse has been provided from our side. Please to read. idhukku mEla solla sattiyila oNNum illai

Rape scene:In 70% (I must have seen 70% of all SAC films, no kidding) of SAC films, the rape happens. Saree to the ceiling fan etc are SAC's sensibilities. I don't remember seeing such scenes in a Shankar film. In enthiran for instance, the turning point is the fire rescue scene. And no, thats certainly not from SAC.

Sellatha Scene: Really?! Which SAC film? Heroyini walking with the hero or her savior into a kuppam is certainly not the point of that scene.

Neighbour's trouble: True, but its certainly not brand SAC.

Kaappagam scenes: SAC would have milked the kaappagam persusus to evoke a tear or two from thaaikkulams. Shankar was very subtle in handling that.

[Vivasaayi]

enna irunthaalum neenga SAC kooda compare pannathu thappu.

:lol:

[SuraTheLeader]

VIJAY is more Interested in working with SHANKAR than with SAC

[Thirumaran]

VIJAY is more Interested in working with SHANKAR than with SAC

Plum and Jai,
unga side kku innoruthar :cheer:

[Poornima]

the peg of cornered man breaking away and turning against the system is something Shankar has clearly carried over from SAC, the way I see it. .
True, nobody denied this thus far. But reducing Shankar to just that is a superficial way of looking at things. Also I for one was saying that Shankar as a writer is ordinary (much better than SAC and the likes of course) and he sure has inherited this, I mean 'one man turning against the system' from SAC which is very basic - at the writing level.

absolutely, he's not just about a male lead prototype that SAC himself could've modelled on Charles Bronson with some pamphlet socialism thrown in. that's why I drew it back to scale/ambition. in fact, the reference point here should be Pavithran, rather. whatever little we've seen of him, that is.

[jaiganes]

JG, you may consider editing out the word "their" in the thread title. That way we can broaden the scope of discussion to confusion of the critics as well as confusion 'about' the critics :-)

how to edit the title of the thread?
yaarna sollungappa.

[venkkiram]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

[jaiganes]

ஆஹா! ரொம்பவே நல்லாப் போகுது திரி. நடத்துங்க! SAC-ஐ ஷங்கரோடு ஒப்பிடும் எந்த விமர்சகரைக் காட்டிலும் ஒரு சாதாரண வெகுஜன மனிதரின் பார்வை தரமானது என நினைக்கிறேன்.

எந்த விஷயத்தில் ஒப்பீடு என்பதைப் பொருத்தது அது. விவாதமே sensibility பற்றியது என்பது என் புரிதல். அதில் உள்ள ஒரு மத்திய வர்க்க சமூக எதிர்பார்ப்புகள், கோபம் போன்றவை (இந்தியாவை வல்லரசாக விடாமல் தடுக்கும் இடர்களை களைபிடுங்குவோம், பலாத்காரத்திலிருதுகாக்கும் ரட்சகன் ..வகையறா) SACயின் 'பார்வை'யிலிருந்து தரவிறக்கம் செய்துகொள்ளப்பட்டவை என்பது தெளிவு.

அது பலருக்கு மேற்கொண்டு ரசிக்கத் தடையாக இருப்பதாக சொல்வதும் புரிந்துகொள்ளத்தக்கதே. நல்லவேளையாக எனக்கு அப்படி இல்லை.

ஜெய் இந்த மேல்பூச்சு படமாகாது என்று சொல்கிறார் (என்று நினைக்கிறேன்). அது ஒரு கருத்து :-)

ஆனால், அதை என்னவோ எந்திரன் = மாண்புமிகு மாணவன் என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.[/quote]
I think this is probably the best sum up.
@PR - neenga neenga dhaan naanga naanga dhaan...

I feel shankar always feels it is a easy way out in social themes to culminate things in a court room and bring in director's voice there. I have no problems if it can be done with the same level of attention to detail that is visible in the preceding portions.
I will have to clarify that I liked Mudhalvan first half, the interview and the reluctant messiah angle - the moment CM angle comes in the script rapidly takes the SAC route of "fight against system" and loses credibility. That is one more reason I find the SAC route is the "escape route" out of all the knots created deftly earlier.
In Endhiran, Red chippai pidungi podradhoda subam potrukkalaam, but adhukkappram robot advice panradhu kodumai.
Unnecessary transfer of guilt on a poor machine.
That apart, ppl like PR should say how to handle bias(positive or negative..that comes out of watching so many movies of the maker) when objectively criticising a movie. Also is there a space in TN for objective criticism without encountering velakkumaaru?

[jaiganes]

Critics and Confessions nnu poattu discuss pannaa innum interesting aa irukkum :mrgreen:

yen, confessions of married men-nnu poettuttu pesalaame :lol:

adhai dhaan NOV jokesngara paerla pala varushamaa seidhuttu irukkaaru.

[jaiganes]

btw, critic na yaaru?? to me, one who can deconstruct the work of a artiste and judge its merits/demerits in the same alignment as the artiste had constructed it - i think Baradwajar, feeyar, equa, compli, kitglove are some of the best i have seen and read....... 8-)
I think grouch video paathaale critic yaarunnu purinjudum.
I would say neenga kooda oru nalla meesik critik dhaan. enna nariya time spend panni ezudha maatreenga.. avlo dhaan.

[MADDY]

I would say neenga kooda oru nalla meesik critik dhaan. enna nariya time spend panni ezudha maatreenga.. avlo dhaan.

// :shock: neenga vera, enakku seettu kattula evalavu seettu irukkunne theriyaadhu :lol: .......//

[app_engine]

how to edit the title of the thread?
yaarna sollungappa.

Try the "Edit" for the first post :-)

[Plum]

Jai, ennayA idhu red chip-ai pudungi pOttA mAdhiri pEsura?

[jaiganes]

Jai, ennayA idhu red chip-ai pudungi pOttA mAdhiri pEsura?
sari sari ragasiya alosanai koottathula mudivu panna maadhiri pesuvOm.. inimel.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Flau, regarding SAC == Sankar, neengalum dismantle yourself :lol

[Thirumaran]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

:exactly:

Raavanan padathula Suhasini dialogues kooda arputham nnu oru valid reason kooda sollaama paesuravanga undu namma hub la.

[jaiganes]

regarding SAC, neengalum dismantle yourself :lol:
why this vehmence?
I think i have not seen a single point substantiating the reason why not? SAC formula redux is the basic shankar formula, that seems to be the maker's voice and opinion in most of his movies, take that away we have all the fringe elements like song, dance , grapiks etc., etc.,
If content is the king, then most of shankar movies are pauper's plate of food. and please dont equate content = makkalukku sollum karuththu.
Going by Nerd's assertion of my "so called" praise of "Vaaranam Aayiram", still VA is a rich film - rich in content and moments.
However VA and most of shankar's movies are in different genre.
So shankar is truly the Michael Bay of Indian movies, i wish he does away with the excuses of stories just like Michael Bay does, then we can enjoy his future movies much better.

[jaiganes]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

:exactly:

Raavanan padathula Suhasini dialogues kooda arputham nnu oru valid reason kooda sollaama paesuravanga undu namma hub la.
innai dheedhi varaikkum enakku bavabayaharamnu sonna adhu dhaan.

[Nerd]

I think i have not seen a single point substantiating the reason why not?
Ellaa (P_R, Maddy, Poornima etc.) postaiyum padinga bossu..

[raajarasigan]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

:exactly:

Raavanan padathula Suhasini dialogues kooda arputham nnu oru valid reason kooda sollaama paesuravanga undu namma hub la.
innai dheedhi varaikkum enakku bavabayaharamnu sonna adhu dhaan. :yes: could NOT digest that... :banghead:

[MADDY]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

:exactly:

Raavanan padathula Suhasini dialogues kooda arputham nnu oru valid reason kooda sollaama paesuravanga undu namma hub la.

yaarunga appadi sonna :shock: ....

[venkkiram]

When anniyan was out, the natural reaction was 'eththanai?' wasn't it? ஆமாம். இருந்தாலும் அது ரொம்ப கடின மான வேலை. அதை திறம்பட செய்திருக்கிறார் ஷங்கர் என்பது பாராட்டப்பட வேண்டியது. "அவர்கள்" படத்தை அப்படியே பல காலம் கழித்து பாலச் சந்தர் மனதில் உறுதி வேண்டும் எடுத்தார். நல்லா யிருந்துச்சி. ஒரே தீம் என்றாலும் திரைக்கதை, முடிச்சுகள் எல்லாம் நேர்த்தி. இப்போ ரமணாவின் பாதையிலேயே இன்னொரு சுவாரஸ்யமான கதையை முருகதாஸ் கற்பனை செய்ய முடியுமானால் நிகழ்த்திக் காட்டாலாம்.

கற்பனையும், தைரியமும் இருந்தால் எதுவுமே செயல்படுத்திக் காட்டலாம் என்பதற்கு நிகழ்காலத்தில் ஷங்கர் சிறந்த உதாரணம்.

[Thirumaran]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

:exactly:

Raavanan padathula Suhasini dialogues kooda arputham nnu oru valid reason kooda sollaama paesuravanga undu namma hub la.

yaarunga appadi sonna :shock: ....

saththiyamaa neenga illa.. not kg too.. among the ones who supported the movie :wink:

[kid-glove]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே
"பொங்குறது". இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.

:exactly:

Raavanan padathula Suhasini dialogues kooda arputham nnu oru valid reason kooda sollaama paesuravanga undu namma hub la.

yaarunga appadi sonna :shock: ....

MArAr, slight exaggeration. Mano, myself and few others said the dialogues were "serviceable" for majority of the film. Yes of course, we laughed about the bad parts.

Oh wait, I remember Venkiram praising one or two lines. Are you referring to that, TM?

[kid-glove]

/dig

ada paavingala, enna oru 'git' aakiteengalE :rotfl:

dig/

[Thirumaran]

Oh wait, I remember Venkiram praising one or two lines. Are you referring to that, TM?

i know u would ask... maelae paarunga :P

oh yes.. venkiram thaan.. athaan avar post quote pannaen :noteeth:

[kid-glove]

Oh wait, I remember Venkiram praising one or two lines. Are you referring to that, TM?

i know u would ask... maelae paarunga :P

oh yes.. venkiram thaan.. athaan avar post quote pannaen :noteeth:

Ok, Got it. :)

[Plum]

TM, unga characteraiyE purinjikka mAtRAnga. I guessed it then itself when you framed it as a reply to venkkiram.

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

[kid-glove]

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

P_R :hammer:

[Thirumaran]

TM, unga characteraiyE purinjikka mAtRAnga. I guessed it then itself when you framed it as a reply to venkkiram.


Konja naal layae enna niraya purinjittavar neengathaaan.. Manager Manager thaan :cool2:

[venkkiram]

Oh wait, I remember Venkiram praising one or two lines. Are you referring to that, TM?

i know u would ask... maelae paarunga :P

oh yes.. venkiram thaan.. athaan avar post quote pannaen :noteeth:

திரு.. நான் சொன்னது இதைத்தான்.. இதில் தவறேதும் இருப்பதாக தெரியவில்லை..




Ice : சாமி, கெட்டவங்கள கெட்டவங்களாவே காட்டு. நல்லவங்களா காட்டாத ( idhu saambil)


எக்காலத்திலும் பொருந்தி வருகிற ஆழ்ந்த வசனமாக இதைப் பார்க்கிறேன். வாழ்த்துக்கள் சுஹாசினி. உங்களுக்கும் நல்லா வசனம் எழுத முடியும் என இந்தப் படத்துல இதுபோன்ற சில தருணங்களில் நிரூபிச்சிட்டிங்க.

[Thirumaran]

Venki,
not just that alone.. enakku therinju raavanan padathula oru chinna kura kooda sollaama aniyaayathukku pugazhntheenga... at least in initial stages.. ithukkum naan oru kurai koodavaa padathula illainnu kaetathukku vaera ennamo sonneenga :P. namakku pidichcha maanavanga padam naa oru kura kooda solla koodaathu / kurayae illaingra level la vaatham panrathu kooda neenga sollra tharayila neechchal adikiratha poala thaan.. ithukkum antha padathula faults are pretty visible in many places..

[Ramakrishna]

Venki,
not just that alone.. enakku therinju raavanan padathula oru chinna kura kooda sollaama aniyaayathukku pugazhntheenga... at least in initial stages.. ithukkum naan oru kurai koodavaa padathula illainnu kaetathukku vaera ennamo sonneenga :P. namakku pidichcha maanavanga padam naa oru kura kooda solla koodaathu / kurayae illaingra level la vaatham panrathu kooda neenga sollra tharayila neechchal adikiratha poala thaan.. ithukkum antha padathula faults are pretty visible in many places..

ungalukku kuraiyaa therinjaa avaru ennanga pannuvaaru? Neenga kooda thaan Singam release time la Suryaku rombo support panneenga?

[Thirumaran]

rama,
nallaa search panni paaru.. sila kuraingalum irukkum :poke: and here the talks are based on "tharayila neechal adikira " comment by venki on others :P

Sari thookkam varuthu.. naalaikku vanthu paarku boathu intha thread 15 page aachchum poaganum :wink:

[P_R]

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

P_R :hammer: :lol:
Actually that was not intentional.
So, according to my books, neenga ennai kOvichukka koodaadhu :-)

[venkkiram]

here the talks are based on "tharayila neechal adikira " comment by venki on others :Pதரையில நீச்சல் அடிக்கறது என நான் குறிப்பிட்டது எதையென்றால்

(1) ஒரு இயக்குனர் இவர்களைப் பொறுத்தவரை நல்ல படம் எடுப்பவர் அல்ல. அதாவது நல்ல இயக்குனர் அல்ல. (தரை)
(2) ஆனாலும் அவரை அக்கு வேறாக ஆணி வேராக பிரிக்க முற்படுவது (நீச்சல் அடிப்பது)

நான் என்ன சொல்றேன் என்றால், உங்க(விமர்சக நாயகர்கள்) பொன்னான நீச்சல் திறமையை ஏன் தரையில அடிக்கிறீங்க? தண்ணி இருக்கிற குளமா பார்த்து அடிக்கவேண்டியது தானே! அம்புடுதேன்!

[P_R]

என்கிற ரீதியில் சொல்லிவிட்டதாகப் புரிந்துகொண்டு பொங்குவாதகப் படுகிறது.இவுங்க எவுங்க?
சும்மா பொது அறிவுக்கு. எவுங்க'ன்னு தெரிஞ்சா அவுங்க கூட சேராம டூ விட்டுக்க வசதியா இருக்கும்.


இவுங்க அரதப் பழசான ஒரு சட்டகத்தை கையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு, நீ எந்தப் படம் வேணாலும் எடு! ஆனா என் சட்டகத்துள் நீ வந்தாதான் பெருசு! என மார்தட்டுவது தான் மெய்ய்யாலுமே "பொங்குறது".

எத்தை பழசான சட்டகங்கிறீங்க?
சட்டகத்துக்குள் வந்ததற்காக புகழப்பட்ட சுமார் படம் எது?
சட்டகத்துக்குள் வராததற்காக தூற்றப்பட்ட நல்ல படம் எது?
இரண்டாவதற்கு உதாரணமாக நீங்கள் எந்திரனைச் சொல்கிறீர்கள் என்று புரிகிறேன். அது எப்படி இவ்வகை என்று புரியவில்லை. :confused2:
அவுங்க (note the point: அவுங்க) சொல்றதே இது புது மொந்தையில பழங்கள்ளு 'ங்கிறது தானே.



இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் ஒண்ணு சொல்லட்டுமா. (தழுதழுக்கும் குரலை கற்பனை பண்ணிக்குங்க) விமர்சகன்னு தன்னைத் தானே எவனாவது இங்க சொல்லிக்குவானா? அப்பிடி ஒரு முத்திரை ஒருத்தன் மேல விழுகுதுன்னா அத்தோட அவன் தொலஞ்சான்னு அர்த்தம். இதை ஒரு பொய் அவையடக்கத்தோடை எல்லாம் சொல்லலை. ஒரு குமுறலாவே சொல்றேன்
முத்திரை விழுந்தப்புறம் ஒரு தடவை முன்னப்பின்ன எதுனா சொன்னாக்கூட 'உங்க கிட்டேர்ந்து இதை நான் எதிர்பார்க்கலை' அப்பிடிங்கிற மாதிரி பலர் ரியாக்ஷன் குடுப்பாங்க. "இன்னாத்துக்கு நீ எதிர்பார்த்த?" அப்பிடின்னு எதிர்கேள்வில்லாம் கேக்க முடியாது. அதுனால இந்த 'சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்கள்' ங்கற பிரயோகத்தையெல்லாம் நான் கன்னாபின்னான்னு ஆட்சேபிக்கிறேன். சின்னபிள்ளைலேர்ந்து இங்க எல்லாத்துக்கும் கருத்துசொல்லி பழகிட்டோம். அவ்வளொ தான்.


இங்கே விமர்சகர்கள் என சொல்லிக்கொள்பவர்களின் விதண்டாவாதங்கள் தரையில் நீச்சல் அடிப்பதை ஒத்தவை.
சீரியஸ் மோட் ஆன்

விதண்டாவாதம்னு முன்முடிவு ஆன இடத்துல நீச்சல் அடிக்கறது தரைல அடிக்கிற மாதிரி தான்.

[kid-glove]

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

P_R :hammer: :lol:
Actually that was not intentional.
So, according to my books, neenga ennai kOvichukka koodaadhu :-)
nambuREn. :) ungaLa thAnE nambaNum vEra yAru irukkA?

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

When anniyan was out, the natural reaction was 'eththanai?' wasn't it? ஆமாம். இருந்தாலும் அது ரொம்ப கடின மான வேலை. அதை திறம்பட செய்திருக்கிறார் ஷங்கர் என்பது பாராட்டப்பட வேண்டியது. "அவர்கள்" படத்தை அப்படியே பல காலம் கழித்து பாலச் சந்தர் மனதில் உறுதி வேண்டும் எடுத்தார். நல்லா யிருந்துச்சி. ஒரே தீம் என்றாலும் திரைக்கதை, முடிச்சுகள் எல்லாம் நேர்த்தி. இப்போ ரமணாவின் பாதையிலேயே இன்னொரு சுவாரஸ்யமான கதையை முருகதாஸ் கற்பனை செய்ய முடியுமானால் நிகழ்த்திக் காட்டாலாம்.

கற்பனையும், தைரியமும் இருந்தால் எதுவுமே செயல்படுத்திக் காட்டலாம் என்பதற்கு நிகழ்காலத்தில் ஷங்கர் சிறந்த உதாரணம்.

oru levelukku mele avaridam sarakkillai enru thonra vaippathu thaan avaridam ulla migapperiya minus. P_R's above quote is the Best example. At the same time, i agree he *has* limited but original stuff. Ithai marukka mudiyaathu. When I mean original its from SHankar's mind. no inspiration from SAC or Pavithran or its likes, who are just passing clouds

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

கற்பனையும், தைரியமும் இருந்தால் எதுவுமே செயல்படுத்திக் காட்டலாம் என்பதற்கு நிகழ்காலத்தில் ஷங்கர் சிறந்த உதாரணம்.

ippo thaan Surrogates pathen, in Star Movies. Red Chip ulpada vruvalgaLum VaruvalgaLum vazhinthodina

His karpanais stand at sellaaththaa levels, low or high.

His vision and courage to takeup bigger projects - Enthiran is a starting, and that effort needs to be appriciated

[jaiganes]

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

P_R :hammer: :lol:
Actually that was not intentional.
So, according to my books, neenga ennai kOvichukka koodaadhu :-)

Yes yes. I called him "Kozhandhai Kayyurai" sandhadila adhayum gavanikkala...

[jaiganes]

கற்பனையும், தைரியமும் இருந்தால் எதுவுமே செயல்படுத்திக் காட்டலாம் என்பதற்கு நிகழ்காலத்தில் ஷங்கர் சிறந்த உதாரணம்.

ippo thaan Surrogates pathen, in Star Movies. Red Chip ulpada vruvalgaLum VaruvalgaLum vazhinthodina

His karpanais stand at sellaaththaa levels, low or high.

His vision and courage to takeup bigger projects - Enthiran is a starting, and that effort needs to be appriciated
Surrogates is a sodhappal movie and compared to that Endhiran is Ben hur.
The question is not big or small, it is good or bad, tasty or tasteless, creative or otherwise.
The problem has been with us always that we value chandralekha just because of the 1000 drum scene while failing to understand that it is a clever rework of the "trojan horse". While we have articles after articles praising just the scale, we have very little focusing on content. Which is where we lack the sufficient number of critics to fill in the void and indicate what is lacking. This doesnt mean that a critic is more important than the creator. To paraphrase Ilaiyaraaja, "Without composers what the awards will do?". A shankar is definitely more important than 1000 bloggers or critics, yet the hurried shrugging away of criticism is not a sign of mature audience or appreciation.

[kid-glove]

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

P_R :hammer: :lol:
Actually that was not intentional.
So, according to my books, neenga ennai kOvichukka koodaadhu :-)

Yes yes. I called him "Kozhandhai Kayyurai" sandhadila adhayum gavanikkala...

B(K)-esque :lol:

[jaiganes]

Git, nAn indha coinage-ai gavanikkala. Gavanathukku koNdu vandhadhukku nandri hai

P_R :hammer: :lol:
Actually that was not intentional.
So, according to my books, neenga ennai kOvichukka koodaadhu :-)

Yes yes. I called him "Kozhandhai Kayyurai" sandhadila adhayum gavanikkala...

B(K)-esque :lol:
Avar en guru (read it like Thalabadhi Shobana (Suhasini))

[groucho070]

So shankar is truly the Michael Bay of Indian movies, i wish he does away with the excuses of stories just like Michael Bay does, then we can enjoy his future movies much better.Ithataan en reviewla sonnen. Do away with the politics, moral stuff, and go straight to action. We would all enjoy it even better.

[NOV]

what is SAC's best movie?
would like to compare with Shankar's worst and see whether it even stands up to that...

[Plum]

Actually, those two comments and the summation by grouch give me the articulation I have been lacking.
It is not distaste for the politics in Shankar's cinema that puts one off - it is the bogus-ness of it. The fakeness of his social concerns - when they are mere vehicles to express his taste for onscreen action - to me, mirrors that of SAC, whose leftism wasn't an expression of in-born desire to reform the society or express his angst but a vehicle for his imagination.
Are there others who have done the same? Sure, yes. But the superficiality, the set-up of such scenarios clearly reminds me of SAC. (For instance, I haven't seen much of P Vasu's less succesful movies whereas I have watched SAC left, right and centre, irrespective of their BO success so yes, I am more comfortable passing judgement on SAC than on Vasu). Whether Shankar learnt from or taught SaC this is immaterial

As I kept repeating, my point is simply that, irrespective of how they arrived there, Shankar and SAC stand in the same plane for me in terms of sensibility.
And if you are going to ask "has SAC shown a gang rape attempt in a speeding electric train? So therefore shankar is different", I can't answer you.

Have these sequences been used in countless indian movies? Yes, ofcourse.

Someone said Tirisa is paLa paLappAna Kamala Kamesh. adhukkAga, KK glamorous role-la nadikka mudiyumA, nadichAngaLA, invalid comparison-nu solvIngaLA? Some of you will answer yes just because I asked this question. I will skip those people.

[Plum]

What is Kamala Kamesh's most glamorous role? Would like to compare with Tirisa's least glamorous role and see where KK measures up

[Plum]

Aside: ippOllAm jaiganes Arambikkira threads pichukittu Odudhu - normalA paththu nimishathula flop Agira 1000 songs threadE 100 page Odudhu.
Ivarukku "Robin Singh Hubber of the Year" virudhu vazhangumARu parindhuraikkiREn

[groucho070]

:lol: Plum, good kosteen.

[Thirumaran]

What is Kamala Kamesh's most glamorous role? Would like to compare with Tirisa's least glamorous role and see where KK measures up

Kamala Kamesh : "Samsaaram athu minsaaram".. Her singing "Janaki Devi, Raamanai thaedi" is the most glamorous item in the movie.

Trisha : "Jodi" where she comes as Simran's Friend.

Sari compare pannittu, where KK measure up nnu sollunga seekiram :D

[m_karthik]

Which other directors can be compared to SAC?
Who has equal sensibilities in TFI that SAC has?
Just to know... :)

[NOV]

What is Kamala Kamesh's most glamorous role? Would like to compare with Tirisa's least glamorous role and see where KK measures upThis question should be directed to those who think that KK and Trsih are the same.
neengalE oru equation pOttukkittu, appuram adhukku vilakkam kEkkradhu... This is the usual plumisation of issues. :sigh2:

[Plum]

This doesnt mean that a critic is more important than the creator. To paraphrase Ilaiyaraaja, "Without composers what the awards will do?". A shankar is definitely more important than 1000 bloggers or critics, yet the hurried shrugging away of criticism is not a sign of mature audience or appreciation

:clap:

Well said.

[Plum]

What is Kamala Kamesh's most glamorous role? Would like to compare with Tirisa's least glamorous role and see where KK measures upThis question should be directed to those who think that KK and Trsih are the same.
This is the usual plumisation of issues. :sigh2:

Right? It is absurd, isnt it? adhAn nAnum solREn. Comparison is made on one aspect, usually, and to extend that to all aspects or by taking the aspect being compared absolutely literally and "disproving" the original comparison - I dont whether you will call it "Maddy"isation, "Nerd"isation or "NOV"isation or "venkkiram"isation; I surely wouldn't give such names - is pointless.

The point is not that you said Tirisa is KK. The point is that when a comparison is being made, you should try to understand the specifics of it. Well, no, I'll take that back - I cannot impose that on you - but surely, I reserve the right to say that if you dont (want to)understand the import of the comparison, then it is pointless for me to take the debate further.

[Plum]

TM, obviously, Tirisa wins that contest comfortably.

Just as Shankar would if you set-up a "Shankar's worst film vs SAC's best film" contest. Which is beside my point anyway.

[m_karthik]

What is Kamala Kamesh's most glamorous role? Would like to compare with Tirisa's least glamorous role and see where KK measures up

Kamala Kamesh : "Samsaaram athu minsaaram".. Her singing "Janaki Devi, Raamanai thaedi" is the most glamorous item in the movie.

Trisha : "Jodi" where she comes as Simran's Friend.

Sari compare pannittu, where KK measure up nnu sollunga seekiram :D

Atleast ingayaavadhu Tirisha va enga measure pannuveengannu solluvaanganuu partha.. :roll:

Shankar nilamai KK varaikkum vanduduchaa???? :lol:

[Plum]

mkarthik- thiruththam. In the above analogy, Shankar is Tirisa, and SAC is KK :-)

[NOV]

whatever names you call it mister plum, the point is such comparison is pointless.

of course there will be similarities, just like there are similarities between SAR's songs and IR's songs.

but just as you get indignant when such ruthless comparison is made......

[m_karthik]

mkarthik- thiruththam. In the above analogy, Shankar is Tirisa, and SAC is KK :-)

Analogy correct.. but Nov wanted to measure Shankar's worst.. But here u wanted to measure KK's best.. Naan adha mean panninen :)

[Thirumaran]

Shankar is Tirisa
Itha mattum paarthuttu Shankar ayum Trisha vayum eppadi compare pannalaamnu yaaraachchum kaetka poaraanga :mrgreen:

[littlemaster1982]

May be I'm simplifying the issue here, but are we comparing Shankar's writing with SAC or Shankar's direction with SAC. If it is the former, at least there is something to discuss. When it comes to direction, Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC.

[Plum]

whatever names you call it mister plum, the point is such comparison is pointless.

of course there will be similarities, just like there are similarities between SAR's songs and IR's songs.

but just as you get indignant when such ruthless comparison is made......
IndignantA? eppO? sollavE illai :lol:

Pointless or not, as Jai said, summary dismissal without understanding what the person making the comparison is saying is not sensible.

If you want to equate your IR-SAR comparison to my Shankar-SAC comparison, then substantiate with specific aspects in which you are comparing IR-SAR. If you note that I am not saying that Shankar learnt from SAC, I am merely saying that Shankar's sensibility is in the same plane as SAC(which says nothing about their relative merits as filmmakers, filmmaking being much more than mere storyboarding and screenplay writing, as Nerd rightly observed).

If you made a similarr comparison between SAR and IR, specifying in which aspect they stand on the same plane, who is going to quesiton you or dismiss your comparison?
In the absence of such substantiation, though, I can only see your comparison as a vague way of trying to make a pointless comparison to dismiss my substantiated, articulated comparison

[Plum]

May be I'm simplifying the issue here, but are we comparing Shankar's writing with SAC or Shankar's direction with SAC. If it is the former, at least there is something to discuss. When it comes to direction, Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC.
reNdum illai LM. I am merely saying SAC and Shankar stand on the same plane of sensibility. puriyudhA?

(vuttA ennai Kamal rangeku incomprehensible AkkiduvingaLO? avLO dhUram pOga vENdiya vishayamE illaipA idhu)

[hamid]

I will skip those people.

Plum.. your bossy attitude irritates.. You just keep on repeating these kind of posts.. avanga solrathaiyellam kandukkarathe illa.. ivangala freeya vittuduven...ungakiitta ellam naan pesa matten..koodai vachirukkaravangalukku ellam pathil solrathu illa... etc etc.. also the kind of language.. "naan solratha purinchikkave try panna maatiingala?"

these are insults and more than personal abuse IMO.

ah.. yes. you can choose to ignore me too.. perfectly fine.

[NOV]

:rotfl:
Plum, plum :shakeshead:

[Plum]

I will skip those people.

Plum.. your bossy attitude irritates.. You just keep on repeating these kind of posts.. avanga solrathaiyellam kandukkarathe illa.. ivangala freeya vittuduven...ungakiitta ellam naan pesa matten..koodai vachirukkaravangalukku ellam pathil solrathu illa... etc etc.. also the kind of language.. "naan solratha purinchikkave try panna maatiingala?"

these are insults and more than personal abuse IMO.

ah.. yes. you can choose to ignore me too.. perfectly fine.
:lol:

Hamid, idhukku nAn politeA reply paNNalAm, "If i have hurt, sorry"-nu apologise paNnalAm but mudiyala. I dont find anything wrong with the way I have used those words. nAnum ennAla mudinja varai rephrase paNNi rephrase paNNi, explain paNdrEn - ofcourse puriyarA mAdhiri articulate paNNAdhadhu en thappum dhAn. But enakkum oru aluppu, angalAippu varudhu avLO dhAn.

ungaLai ignore paNNa mudiyumA? :-)

[Plum]

:rotfl:
Plum, plum :shakeshead:
idha pArunga Hamid - avLo poRumaiyA explain paNNinA, ennA mAdhiri reaction pOduRAr :evil:

appuram nAn apdi En pEsa mAttEn?

[NOV]

Plum, I have to save my dignity, that's why I just chose to laugh it off. :)

[m_karthik]

:rotfl:
Plum, plum :shakeshead:
idha pArunga Hamid - avLo poRumaiyA explain paNNinA, ennA mAdhiri reaction pOduRAr :evil:

appuram nAn apdi En pEsa mAttEn?

idhaan shankar oda basic plotline... aniyayathatha thatti kaetkiradhu.. :D

[Thirumaran]

:rotfl:
Plum, plum :shakeshead:
idha pArunga Hamid - avLo poRumaiyA explain paNNinA, ennA mAdhiri reaction pOduRAr :evil:

appuram nAn apdi En pEsa mAttEn?

idhaan shankar oda basic plotline... aniyayathatha thatti kaetkiradhu.. :D

ippa yaaru aniyaayam panraanga.. direct aa sollunga :x

[littlemaster1982]

May be I'm simplifying the issue here, but are we comparing Shankar's writing with SAC or Shankar's direction with SAC. If it is the former, at least there is something to discuss. When it comes to direction, Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC.
reNdum illai LM. I am merely saying SAC and Shankar stand on the same plane of sensibility. puriyudhA?

(vuttA ennai Kamal rangeku incomprehensible AkkiduvingaLO? avLO dhUram pOga vENdiya vishayamE illaipA idhu)

I got it already. Is sensibility the only parameter we could consider when comparing two directors? Other than that, I don't think there is anything common between the two. With this premise, calling Shankar a glorified SAC doesn't make sense.

[hamid]

[dig]Plum,
thanks for your response.. please check your pm.
[end dig]

[hamid]

May be I'm simplifying the issue here, but are we comparing Shankar's writing with SAC or Shankar's direction with SAC. If it is the former, at least there is something to discuss. When it comes to direction, Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC.
reNdum illai LM. I am merely saying SAC and Shankar stand on the same plane of sensibility. puriyudhA?

(vuttA ennai Kamal rangeku incomprehensible AkkiduvingaLO? avLO dhUram pOga vENdiya vishayamE illaipA idhu)

I got it already. Is sensibility the only parameter we could consider when comparing two directors? Other than that, I don't think there is anything common between the two. With this premise, calling Shankar a glorified SAC doesn't make sense.

Yep.. I think the problem started from here only. the extra parameters are coming now only after the discussion..

[Plum]

May be I'm simplifying the issue here, but are we comparing Shankar's writing with SAC or Shankar's direction with SAC. If it is the former, at least there is something to discuss. When it comes to direction, Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC.
reNdum illai LM. I am merely saying SAC and Shankar stand on the same plane of sensibility. puriyudhA?

(vuttA ennai Kamal rangeku incomprehensible AkkiduvingaLO? avLO dhUram pOga vENdiya vishayamE illaipA idhu)

I got it already. Is sensibility the only parameter we could consider when comparing two directors? Other than that, I don't think there is anything common between the two. With this premise, calling Shankar a glorified SAC doesn't make sense.

As I said, to me sensibility is everything. Actually, if I can relate to the brahmANdam part, even I will find the comparison ridiculous but since that part(even in allywood) leaves me cold, I am able to make the comparison.

[m_karthik]

:rotfl:
Plum, plum :shakeshead:
idha pArunga Hamid - avLo poRumaiyA explain paNNinA, ennA mAdhiri reaction pOduRAr :evil:

appuram nAn apdi En pEsa mAttEn?

idhaan shankar oda basic plotline... aniyayathatha thatti kaetkiradhu.. :D

ippa yaaru aniyaayam panraanga.. direct aa sollunga :x

avarukku :rotfl: reaction aniyaamnu pattadhu naala :evil: pottaru..
Shankar ku aniyaamanu pattadhunaala padam edukiraaru...
just a correlation that kovathunaala andha madhiri edukuraangannu solla vandhen

IMO yaarum inga aniyaayam pannala.. :oops:

[venkkiram]

விதண்டாவாதம்னு முன்முடிவு ஆன இடத்துல நீச்சல் அடிக்கறது தரைல அடிக்கிற மாதிரி தான்.இந்த திரி எதை நோக்கி போகுதுன்னு நல்லா தெரியுது. புது மொந்தையில் பழைய கள்ளு. பிறகு அரசியல் பார்வை இல்லாமல் இருந்தால் நல்லாயிருக்கும் . பிறகு சென்சிபிலிட்டி இல்லை. சகல விதத்திலும் ஷங்கர் போன்றவர்களுக்கு இலவச ஆலோசனை வழங்கப்படும். ஏன் இவ்வளவு தூரம் மெனக்கெடுகிறார்கள் என்றால், இந்தியாவிலேயே ஒரு மாபெரும் இயக்குனராக ஷங்கர் உருவெடுத்து நிற்பதால் தான்.. Here fans of "Opera singers" are trying their best to teach Britney Spears how to dance.

[Plum]

Shankar ku aniyaamanu pattadhunaala padam edukiraaru...


adhAn illaingaROm.


venkkiram, ivLO indignation thEvaiyE illai IMO - nobody is teaching dancing to Shankar. avaru epdi commercial padam edukkaNumnu yArum sollavE illaiyE?

nAnum unga style-la oNNu koLuthi pOdaREn:
makkaLE, Shankar = Britney Spears is the latest comparison.

idhu sariyA? nyAyamA? dharmamA?

[littlemaster1982]

May be I'm simplifying the issue here, but are we comparing Shankar's writing with SAC or Shankar's direction with SAC. If it is the former, at least there is something to discuss. When it comes to direction, Shankar is leagues ahead of SAC.
reNdum illai LM. I am merely saying SAC and Shankar stand on the same plane of sensibility. puriyudhA?

(vuttA ennai Kamal rangeku incomprehensible AkkiduvingaLO? avLO dhUram pOga vENdiya vishayamE illaipA idhu)

I got it already. Is sensibility the only parameter we could consider when comparing two directors? Other than that, I don't think there is anything common between the two. With this premise, calling Shankar a glorified SAC doesn't make sense.

As I said, to me sensibility is everything. Actually, if I can relate to the brahmANdam part, even I will find the comparison ridiculous but since that part(even in allywood) leaves me cold, I am able to make the comparison.

No, I am not talking about brahmandam. Purely in terms of storytelling and execution, Shankar has a place of his own. Agree/disagree?

[Plum]

Disagree. If you remove the technical awesomeness of the gangrape attempt in the Electric Train sequence, for instance, what do you get?

In terms of degree, yes, you can quote specific instances and probably say that "look at these instances - can you see it in a SAC movie?"

I'll quote you something from a SAC movie - nilavae malarae - as trite as it can get - Rajesh's wife is Nadhiya1, and dies. Nadhiya2 is the lover of Suresh, Rajesh's friend. Circumstances conspire, and for the sake of Baby Shalini, Nadhiya2 agrees to masquerade as Nadhiya1 in Rajesh's house.
(well, I'd like to give Rajesh a bravery award for coping with Nadhiya and Shalini in the same film, same set of sequences, and acting as someone who loves both in the avatars(not just looks) they sported at that timeframe)

At some point, Rajesh hugs Nadhiya2 in a moment of thazhuthazhuthal. And he recovers and apologises - I thought that moment was very well captured. Forgetting the trite scenario and the set-up of a look alike Nadhiya materialising as his friend's wife to help masquerade as nadhiya1 - that moment in itself was very natural, well directed.

So, if you dig deep, SAC himself will grow beyond the one-note vigilante director.

So, you can argue that Shankar and SAC vary in degree but I quite can't dismiss SAC in comparison to Shankar as easily as you guys seem to do.

[littlemaster1982]

Disagree. If you remove the technical awesomeness of the gangrape attempt in the Electric Train sequence, for instance, what do you get?

You could have well mentioned that scene as train fight :P The train fight was exciting for many (including me) and I think the whole segment was well executed (gang rape attempt notwithstanding). Even if the script is weak, he manages to engage the viewer to a great extent.

Now if you think SAC is just lesser than Shankar in these aspects, then shake hands/walk off :D



In terms of degree, yes, you can quote specific instances and probably say that "look at these instances - can you see it in a SAC movie?"

I'll quote you something from a SAC movie - nilavae malarae - as trite as it can get - Rajesh's wife is Nadhiya1, and dies. Nadhiya2 is the lover of Suresh, Rajesh's friend. Circumstances conspire, and for the sake of Baby Shalini, Nadhiya2 agrees to masquerade as Nadhiya1 in Rajesh's house.
(well, I'd like to give Rajesh a bravery award for coping with Nadhiya and Shalini in the same film, same set of sequences, and acting as someone who loves both in the avatars(not just looks) they sported at that timeframe)

At some point, Rajesh hugs Nadhiya2 in a moment of thazhuthazhuthal. And he recovers and apologises - I thought that moment was very well captured. Forgetting the trite scenario and the set-up of a look alike Nadhiya materialising as his friend's wife to help masquerade as nadhiya1 - that moment in itself was very natural, well directed.

So, if you dig deep, SAC himself will grow beyond the one-note vigilante director.

So, you can argue that Shankar and SAC vary in degree but I quite can't dismiss SAC in comparison to Shankar as easily as you guys seem to do.

Haven't seen Nilave Malare, but I take your word. I don't have the patience to dig deep SAC movies to know if he is more than a one-note director. In case of Shankar, you don't even have to dig deep and it's clearly visible he is more than a brahmandam/extravaganza director.

[Plum]

LM, ofcourse, Shankar films and sequences are exciting for many. That is why they are blockbusters. This is just about how I react to him. And to me, yes, if I remove the visual awesomeness of the electric train sequence, it stands on the same side of sensibility as SAC's - doubtless, ofcourse, populated by a lot more directors/writers in Indian film history.

[Plum]

irunga, 5 vayasula nilavae malarae pala muRai theater pOi pArtha Frabhu Rau vandhu EdhAvadhu refutation sollattum :-)

[P_R]

Haven't seen Nilave Malare
enakku pala vishangaL puriyudhu :-)

Flau, முந்தாநேத்து தம்கட்டி சிலபல storytelling style உதாரணங்கள் கொடுத்தேன். அதுக்கும் sensibilityக்கும் சம்மந்தம் இல்லை.

Are you claiming SAC is equal to summoning such aesthetics in his work?

[hamid]

Haven't seen Nilave Malare
enakku pala vishangaL puriyudhu :-)

Flau, முந்தாநேத்து தம்கட்டி சிலபல storytelling style உதாரணங்கள் கொடுத்தேன். அதுக்கும் sensibilityக்கும் சம்மந்தம் இல்லை.

Are you claiming SAC is equal to summoning such aesthetics in his work?

:lol:

[Plum]

No

[P_R]

:bow: @Groucho for the Michael Bay.

அவ்வளொதான்.

Flau/JG, இத்தோட முடிச்சுக்குவோமா.

[groucho070]

Sensibilities aside, I suppose one thing that sets them apart is their actual political leaning. I mean literally. SAC was (is?)DMK member, and clearly he had agenda seeing that MGR was in power. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Plum]

SAC-Shankar panchAyathai mudichukkuvOm

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

idhai konjam problem statementA post paNNunga. andha panchAyathai ArambikkalAm.

[P_R]

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

Okay we'll come to critic versus artists later. First critic and the public opinion - can be discussed.


Public Opinion
When someone holds and expresses an opinion contrary to the popular opinion, he is doing so largely to derive the perverse pleasure of 'being different'.

Critic's defence... and confession
That is rather unfounded. But when one's opinion is at odd's with the that of many others, the stronger and more widespread the popular opinon, the more one tends to (consciously or unconsciously) exaggerate one's own counter opinion.

After all the critic's opinion does not exist in vaccuum. (from here you can, by induction, demote the critic from his peetam and get an understanding of public opinion itself !)

This exaggeration kicks off a vicious cycle of mutual acrimony - leading to threads like this :-) In the end it is quite likely that both the popular opinion and critic's (unpopular) opinion have much weaker bases than someone reading the arguments would infer.

Lastly, we can all live happily ever after if "Consistency is taken out and shot".

[Dinesh84]

Tensan tensan tensanappa.. :x

[Plum]

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

Okay we'll come to critic versus artists later. First critic and the public opinion - can be discussed.


Public Opinion
When someone holds and expresses an opinion contrary to the popular opinion, he is doing so largely to derive the perverse pleasure of 'being different'.

Critic's defence... and confession
That is rather unfounded. But when one's opinion is at odd's with the that of many others, the stronger and more widespread the popular opinon, the more one tends to (consciously or unconsciously) exaggerate one's own counter opinion.

After all the critic's opinion does not exist in vaccuum. (from here you can, by induction, demote the critic from his peetam and get an understanding of public opinion itself !)

This exaggeration kicks off a vicious cycle of mutual acrimony - leading to threads like this :-) In the end it is quite likely that both the popular opinion and critic's (unpopular) opinion have much weaker bases than someone reading the arguments would infer.

Lastly, we can all live happily ever after if "Consistency is taken out and shot".

Brilliantly put. As Jai said
நீங்க நீங்க தான், நாங்க நாங்க தான்

[kid-glove]

I'll quote you something from a SAC movie - nilavae malarae - as trite as it can get - Rajesh's wife is Nadhiya1, and dies. Nadhiya2 is the lover of Suresh, Rajesh's friend. Circumstances conspire, and for the sake of Baby Shalini, Nadhiya2 agrees to masquerade as Nadhiya1 in Rajesh's house.
(well, I'd like to give Rajesh a bravery award for coping with Nadhiya and Shalini in the same film, same set of sequences, and acting as someone who loves both in the avatars(not just looks) they sported at that timeframe)

At some point, Rajesh hugs Nadhiya2 in a moment of thazhuthazhuthal. And he recovers and apologises - I thought that moment was very well captured. Forgetting the trite scenario and the set-up of a look alike Nadhiya materialising as his friend's wife to help masquerade as nadhiya1 - that moment in itself was very natural, well directed.

So, aal marattam (like in Jeans) kuda inga irundhu vandhadha? :P

[directhit]

:lol:

[Thirumaran]

btw remember a scene from Rasigan.. Vijay Sangavi kulikkom boathu avaroada bathroom vazhiyaa sengal eduththu silmisam panra maathiri plan.. by mistake Sangavi's mother vanthiduvaanga :banghead:

actually ithae scene SAC used with a old vijaykanth-Viji movie..

Ithae maathiri Sankar padathula any examples irukka :huh:

[ajaybaskar]

Plum,

I havent seen Nilavae Malare.. But where does Rahman comes in?

[kid-glove]

Indian - all Urmila scenes.. :)

[Plum]

There are some moments with subasree in Gentleman, IIRC.
Madhubala losing her dhAvaNi to the kichas board ellAm what do you guys feel? AestheticA?

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Regarding adultry - sankar completely shanged tracks after Boys. Then, he makes sure his movie gets UA

[kid-glove]

Did you guys know, Urmila acted for free in Indhiyan.

[Plum]

Plum,

I havent seen Nilavae Malare.. But where does Rahman comes in?


Sorry RAhman-ai dhAn Suresh-nu sollittEn :oops:

[Plum]

I know she acted "free"-ly in Rangeela.

[P_R]

Did you guys know, Urmila acted for free in Indhiyan. enthukku ?

GM: nee kaasu vaangi nadichA audience Lufthans aagiduvAngO

[kid-glove]

Did you guys know, Urmila acted for free in Indhiyan. enthukku ?



athu theriyadhu..

[Mahen]

Innum Shankar vs SAC topic viduliya :sigh2:

[MADDY]

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

Okay we'll come to critic versus artists later. First critic and the public opinion - can be discussed.


Public Opinion
When someone holds and expresses an opinion contrary to the popular opinion, he is doing so largely to derive the perverse pleasure of 'being different'.

oho! bayarea and some others who have voiced this opinion are entire public, is it? :)

[P_R]

podhuvaa palar solradhu dhaanE. Half-jokingly, half-seriously.

[Nerd]

Public (My): Shankar (pOnrOr) padam-naa udanE michael bay without even thinking of assessing the film for its merits. Kanmoodithanamaana dismissal.

[Dinesh84]

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

Okay we'll come to critic versus artists later. First critic and the public opinion - can be discussed.


Public Opinion
When someone holds and expresses an opinion contrary to the popular opinion, he is doing so largely to derive the perverse pleasure of 'being different'.

oho! bayarea and some others who have voiced this opinion are entire public, is it? :)
neenga fublic illa.. kiritiki..

[MADDY]

neenga fublic illa.. kiritiki..

Kalavani appa: dho poraarula, arikkii(kritiki)

im not a movie critic or music critic - i really cant be one too due to my heavy preferences towards some artistes - naanum fublic dhaanungo

[Ramakrishna]

neenga fublic illa.. kiritiki..

Kalavani appa: dho poraarula, arikkii(kritiki)

im not a movie critic or music critic - i really cant be one too due to my heavy preferences towards some artistes - naanum fublic dhaanungo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkGUEKlhNHY

[m_23_bayarea]

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

Okay we'll come to critic versus artists later. First critic and the public opinion - can be discussed.

Public Opinion
When someone holds and expresses an opinion contrary to the popular opinion, he is doing so largely to derive the perverse pleasure of 'being different'.

Critic's defence... and confession
That is rather unfounded. But when one's opinion is at odd's with the that of many others, the stronger and more widespread the popular opinon, the more one tends to (consciously or unconsciously) exaggerate one's own counter opinion.

After all the critic's opinion does not exist in vaccuum. (from here you can, by induction, demote the critic from his peetam and get an understanding of public opinion itself !)

This exaggeration kicks off a vicious cycle of mutual acrimony - leading to threads like this :-) In the end it is quite likely that both the popular opinion and critic's (unpopular) opinion have much weaker bases than someone reading the arguments would infer.

Lastly, we can all live happily ever after if "Consistency is taken out and shot".

Brilliantly put. As Jai said
நீங்க நீங்க தான், நாங்க நாங்க தான்

Typical criticque's interpretation of the subject/product - or rather misinterpretation! :notworthy:

[jaiganes]

Public (My): Shankar (pOnrOr) padam-naa udanE michael bay without even thinking of assessing the film for its merits. Kanmoodithanamaana dismissal.

I dont think so.
nemba yoasichu dhaan I (we) came to the conclusion.
Whatever demarcates his films (spl effects focus apart) from Michael bay - seriously doesnt rise up above SAC in terms of content or novelty. So grouch 's suggestion was - dude just try to be Indian Michael Bay - you would do well. And I agree totally.

[jaiganes]

neenga fublic illa.. kiritiki..

Kalavani appa: dho poraarula, arikkii(kritiki)

im not a movie critic or music critic - i really cant be one too due to my heavy preferences towards some artistes - naanum fublic dhaanungo

Another misconception that critic should be free of bias!!!
Critic too is a human being and his/her bias only makes his/her views all the more interesting to read. however general public doesnt appreciate this and comes to a uneducated and lazy view that
"avaru eppavume ippadi dhaanbaa". Therein lies the shortcoming of public or fubliccu as u ppl put it.

[Nerd]

[seriously doesnt rise up above SAC in terms of content or novelty.
This is precisely why you (and the jalraas, NOM) are bad critics (of Shankar).

[venkkiram]

வெகுஜனத்திற்கும் விமர்சகர்களுக்கும் என்ன வித்யாசம்? வெகுஜனங்களுக்கு இடையே ஒற்றுமை இருக்கும். கலை, கமர்ஷியல் வேறுபாடு எல்லாம் கிடையாது. மனதிற்கு புடிச்சிதா, வெள்ளந்தியா சிரிப்பாங்க...துக்கம் தொண்டைய அடச்சி கண்ணீர் எட்டிப்பார்ப்பதை துடைத்துக் கொள்வார்கள்.. பாத்திரத்தோடு பாத்திரமாக கலந்து விடுவார்கள். இந்தியன், அவ்வை சண்முகி, பருத்தி வீரன், தவமாய் தவமிருந்து, பசங்க, அங்காடித் தெரு, வெ.க.குழு, எந்திரன் என ஒண்ணு விடாம.. இந்த sensibility பார்த்து பார்த்து ரசிக்கிறவங்களிடம் ஒற்றுமை இருக்காது. ஏனெனில் ஒவ்வொருத்தரோட பார்வை இன்னொருத்தரோட ஒத்துப் போகாது. ஒவ்வொருவரும் சில விதிமுறைகள், பல விதிவிலக்குகளோடு காணப்படுவார்கள். ஒரு வலது சாரிக்கு இடது சாரி பார்வைகள் பிடிக்காது. இடது சாரிக்கு வலது சாரி பிடிக்காது. உலகில் எந்த இடத்தில் இருந்தாலும், மக்களோடு பெரும்பாலான நேரங்களில் அன்னியப்பட்டே இருப்பார்கள்.

[jaiganes]

வெகுஜனத்திற்கும் விமர்சகர்களுக்கும் என்ன வித்யாசம்? வெகுஜனங்களுக்கு இடையே ஒற்றுமை இருக்கும். கலை, கமர்ஷியல் வேறுபாடு எல்லாம் கிடையாது. மனதிற்கு புடிச்சிதா, வெள்ளந்தியா சிரிப்பாங்க...துக்கம் தொண்டைய அடச்சி கண்ணீர் எட்டிப்பார்ப்பதை துடைத்துக் கொள்வார்கள்.. பாத்திரத்தோடு பாத்திரமாக கலந்து விடுவார்கள். இந்தியன், அவ்வை சண்முகி, பருத்தி வீரன், தவமாய் தவமிருந்து, பசங்க, அங்காடித் தெரு, வெ.க.குழு, எந்திரன் என ஒண்ணு விடாம.. இந்த sensibility பார்த்து பார்த்து ரசிக்கிறவங்களிடம் ஒற்றுமை இருக்காது. ஏனெனில் ஒவ்வொருத்தரோட பார்வை இன்னொருத்தரோட ஒத்துப் போகாது. ஒவ்வொருவரும் சில விதிமுறைகள், பல விதிவிலக்குகளோடு காணப்படுவார்கள். ஒரு வலது சாரிக்கு இடது சாரி பார்வைகள் பிடிக்காது. இடது சாரிக்கு வலது சாரி பிடிக்காது. உலகில் எந்த இடத்தில் இருந்தாலும், மக்களோடு பெரும்பாலான நேரங்களில் அன்னியப்பட்டே இருப்பார்கள்.
your point being..
Is that a bad thing to be removed from popular perception?
popular perception also loves most of KSR movies, 80s Rajini masala movies, one point of time even Aadi veLLi, Durga type movies were very popular and loved by the crying-laughing public. So what do you want to prove by your critic bashing?

[Plum]

EnnallAm try paNdrInga :lol:

Oru opinion poRuthukka m$udiyala - sly , laughable attempts to discredit, call names (jalras) etc

StraightAvE argue paNNa mudiyAdhA? EllAm nee ipdi nee oru jalra, nee oru idhu adhunnu solla dhaan theriyumA?

[jaiganes]

[seriously doesnt rise up above SAC in terms of content or novelty.
This is precisely why you (and the jalraas, NOM) are bad critics (of Shankar).
what is NOM?
and who are jalraas here? are jalraas different from fanboys?
why are we bad critics of shankar? just because we found (eureka!!) the never failing similarity in use of themes which SAC dealt with in biannual basis in 80s in shankar's movies? We (myself and jaalraas in hub!!!) have acknowledged greatness in shankar's ability to mount projects of big scope, burn(spend) producer's money in colourful ways so as to get public excited and come to theatre in flocks. P_R has even acknowledged great story telling in Gentleman and Indhian - none of those points have been refuted by my jaalraas and me. Just because we show you some tiring plot points that dont seem to end their repetition shankar's movies, have we become bad critics?

[Plum]

Basic point made - we like Shankar therefore he is great. mARRu karuthu uLLavanga ellAm jalra, differentA think paNdrennu nadikkaravanga etc.
What a bunch to argue with! I quit.
(Hamid, sorry i cant be polite to this bunch)

[HonestRaj]

btw remember a scene from Rasigan.. Vijay Sangavi kulikkom boathu avaroada bathroom vazhiyaa sengal eduththu silmisam panra maathiri plan.. by mistake Sangavi's mother vanthiduvaanga :banghead:

actually ithae scene SAC used with a old vijaykanth-Viji movie..

Ithae maathiri Sankar padathula any examples irukka :huh:

saaryppa nan mathematicsla weaku..

mullu sariya irukkanu paarunga mani annE..

infact.. KB, BR, BM, Mahendran,Maniratnam ippadi ellorume avanglOda careerla engeyavadhu idhu madhiri scenes vechuruppanga.. indha visayathula BALA va paarattanum.. avar padangal darker side'ah irundhalum, andha madhiri scenes vechadhillai (nan partha varaikkum)

[HonestRaj]

There are some moments with subasree in Gentleman, IIRC.
Madhubala losing her dhAvaNi to the kichas board ellAm what do you guys feel? AestheticA?

idhu aesthetic illaama ennavaam... vayasu pasanga mindsettukke varamattengreenga :lol2:

[Nerd]

Jalraa - oththa karuthudaiyavargaL.
NOM - No Offense Meant.

I leave it to the audience to decide who has been polite in this thread.

[venkkiram]

EnnallAm try paNdrInga :lol: இதை படிக்கும் போது ஒருவேளை நீங்க தான் கண்ணாடிக்கு முன்பு நின்று கொண்டு சொல்றீங்களோ என நினைக்கத் தோன்றுகிறது!

[jaiganes]

Jalraa - oththa karuthudaiyavargaL.
NOM - No Offense Meant.

I leave it to the audience to decide who has been polite in this thread.

ஓஹோ! ஜால்ரா என்றால் ஒத்த கருத்துடையவர்கள்.
இதை ஹப் அகராதியில் ஏற்றி விடுங்கப்பா. பிற்பாடு எல்லா
திரியிலும் பேச ரொம்ப வசதியா இருக்கும்.

[Nerd]

http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2288119#2288119

It all started with this post. And look who is talking about mattrukkaruthu, sagipputhanmai etc. Why should he BS my karuthu then? Adhu oru karuthunu vittuttu pOyirukkalaamE.. PorukkaadhE :lol2:

[jaiganes]

http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2288119#2288119

It all started with this post. And look who is talking about mattrukkaruthu, sagipputhanmai etc. Why should he BS my karuthu then? Adhu oru karuthunu vittuttu pOyirukkalaamE.. PorukkaadhE :lol2:

Konjam rewind panni mEla paatha...

And he was the one who *skated/ran* on the tracks and did somersaults etc :bow:

The making was simply wonderful. InimEl evanaavadhu sangar-a hitech SAC-nu sollattum.. :twisted: I always think of Shankar as an excellent director, one of the very best in India. (not a great scriptwriter though)

ippidi onnu vandhu vuzundhudhu. yaaru BS panna - Plum's post was a direct satire on your intolerant post praising Shankar after having seen the making of Endhiran.
@SAC - saar neengalum unga aduththa kaaviyathukku oru "Making" video thayaar pannunga . ungalayum side vaangi pesarathukku aal ready.
BTW - making video paathu merandu directorku kreedom vaikanumnaa - naanga Resident evil maadhiri kuppai padam directorukke vacchuruvOm.

[Plum]

Nerd, jai called your bluff. If he hadn't, i would have. You are intelligent enough to understand our viewpoint - the reason i think you are desparately trying to discredit us is to crudely invalidate our opinion on your favourite. Good attempt :thumbsup:

[sriranga]

for most of the tamil movies, "making" would be same as the movie. padathaye thiruppi release panna vendiyathuthan.

almost 90% of Enthiran, what they shot is not what you see. :D

[Nerd]

Jai,
nice try. But mine was just a *karuthu* at that point. Plum's was an immediate reaction. There is a sea of difference, if only you could comprehend it.

And plum why should I not invalidate your views? Don't I have the right? Do you expect everyone to jaalra with your opinion?

And Jai, jaalraa <> Oththa karuthu, true. But jaalraa + NOM is. And I am willing to take that back if my intention was not clear.

[Movie Cop]

Nerd, jai called your bluff. If he hadn't, i would have. You are intelligent enough to understand our viewpoint - the reason i think you are desparately trying to discredit us is to crudely invalidate our opinion on your favourite. Good attempt :thumbsup:
Oru vaaram, hub pakkam varalE, ingE oru periya kalavaramE nadanthithu irrukku. Inge PanchayathE adhu bluff-uhh, illayA- ngradhu thaanE, if I understood it right. :)

[Nerd]

.


The making was simply wonderful. InimEl evanaavadhu sangar-a hitech SAC-nu sollattum.. :twisted: I always think of Shankar as an excellent director, one of the very best in India. (not a great scriptwriter though)
BTW - making video paathu merandu directorku kreedom vaikanumnaa - naanga Resident evil maadhiri kuppai padam directorukke vacchuruvOm.
Its not just the making. Please read it for yourself.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Oru vaaram, hub pakkam varalE, ingE oru periya kalavaramE nadanthithu irrukku. Inge PanchayathE adhu bluff-uhh, illayA- ngradhu thaanE, if I understood it right. :)

Kalavaramum Karuththu MothalgaLum Kai KalappugaLum illenna hubbu gabbu aagidum! btw, after every war, something is understood by all parties.

Hub il Democracy and Integrity thazhaithonguga :)

[Plum]

Nerd, dhArALamA invalidate paNNung - adhukku pala vazhi irukku - nInga choose paNNinafhu backdoor vazhi - epdiyAvadhu ivainga jaalra adhu idhunnu sollui dhisai thiruppidalAmnu. Not a heads on karuthu vs karuthu honest mOdhal.

Secondly, you dared people to say shankar was a sac plus. I took the dare. Now trying to paint that as my intolerance tells me you will not honestly approach this debate. Whatever be the consensus on our opinions, we havent been dishonest like that.

[Movie Cop]

I recall myself, in this very same hub, after watching "Anniyan" - I called Sangar as "Rich Man's Perarasu". But that was just me getting frustated with Sangar's tiring formula that get's recycled into different cans rather than meaning it literally.

As much as I agree with some of the points about Sangar here, Sangar/SAC pattern is a bit far fetched. Sangar brings lot of new ideas, imagination into table and there are some "Sangar" moments in his movies even if the overall movie is below par. And Endhiran, is a movie where Sangar has really let his imagination run wild (in terms of visuals) and walking those sketches. Train fight scene is a case in point. Very well sketched out and executed with a strong techinkEl team at his disposal.

Nerd - VA is a half baked attempt, three much, I say! :twisted: But I respeet your take that VA didn't impress you a bit. :)

[Nerd]

Just because we show you some tiring plot points that dont seem to end their repetition shankar's movies, have we become bad critics?
Why should I not call you a bad critic? EKSI, I don't get it.

One last time - The *other* elements (examples are all over the place in this and in the Enthiran thread) in a Shankar film quite easily overweigh the SACness and the SACness is at a basic level i.e. the writing. And I did give you that he is not a great writer. This is my point. If you cant agree to that call me a bad no, not a critic, reviewer and move on.

Plum, I brought that intolerance angle because you said I (or we) am intolerant. I sure, am but you were trying to paint a picture that you are not. I wanted to disprove taht.

http://mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2291265#2291265
Oru opinion poruthukka mudiyalai, as if you DID - This is my point. And I already explained the jalra angle and I am even OK to take that back but are you? Refer to Hamid's post earlier in the day.

[Movie Cop]

Oru vaaram, hub pakkam varalE, ingE oru periya kalavaramE nadanthithu irrukku. Inge PanchayathE adhu bluff-uhh, illayA- ngradhu thaanE, if I understood it right. :)

Kalavaramum Karuththu MothalgaLum Kai KalappugaLum illenna hubbu gabbu aagidum! btw, after every war, something is understood by all parties.

Hub il Democracy and Integrity thazhaithonguga :)
:lol:

[Plum]

Mc, vidiya vidiya...
Frabhu rau theerpE solittAr and summed up beautifully. I dont know if you have read fully but you have misunderstood our position, like countless others in the thread before you

[P_R]

But coming to the main point - confusions about Critics:

Okay we'll come to critic versus artists later. First critic and the public opinion - can be discussed.

Public Opinion
When someone holds and expresses an opinion contrary to the popular opinion, he is doing so largely to derive the perverse pleasure of 'being different'.

Critic's defence... and confession
That is rather unfounded. But when one's opinion is at odd's with the that of many others, the stronger and more widespread the popular opinon, the more one tends to (consciously or unconsciously) exaggerate one's own counter opinion.

After all the critic's opinion does not exist in vaccuum. (from here you can, by induction, demote the critic from his peetam and get an understanding of public opinion itself !)

This exaggeration kicks off a vicious cycle of mutual acrimony - leading to threads like this :-) In the end it is quite likely that both the popular opinion and critic's (unpopular) opinion have much weaker bases than someone reading the arguments would infer.

Lastly, we can all live happily ever after if "Consistency is taken out and shot".

Brilliantly put. As Jai said
நீங்க நீங்க தான், நாங்க நாங்க தான்

Typical criticque's interpretation of the subject/product - or rather misinterpretation! :notworthy:

நான் பொதுவா சொன்னேன். உங்களை குறிப்பிட்டது அண்ணன் மேடி. அதுனால நீங்க விழுந்து கும்பிட வேண்டியது அவரைத்தான்.

I thought we were done with Enthiran and wanted to get to a wider discussion. Critic aka pandhithar is an epithet hereabout. And isn't it a widely held opinion that it is because those fellows want to be different? விதண்டாவாதி etc. illavE illAi ndreengaLA?

[Ramakrishna]

Mc, vidiya vidiya...
Frabhu rau theerpE solittAr and summed up beautifully. I dont know if you have read fully but you have misunderstood our position, like countless others in the thread before you

Ippolaam neenga rombo seekram tired aayidreenga. Yaen?

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

And Endhiran, is a movie where Sangar has really let his imagination run wild (in terms of visuals) and walking those sketches. Train fight scene is a case in point. Very well sketched out and executed with a strong techinkEl team at his disposal.

Sankar has stuff. But after looking at all the creative aspect available in Enthiran, quoting ALL as his imagination is not right. Still we are yet to hear what is copied, some things are already mentioned like the Red chip etc,

At one side ppl are too willing to accept enthiran is not wholly original, saying "ippo than intha trend start aagirukku, makkalukku puriyanum & whatever it is, this is india's 1st attempt"

Other side, ppl are same too willing to praise shankar to sky high for the content as a whole, when many know there are many many lifted scenes.

Let somebody come and pointout all the scenes, then we will decide.

as of now, sellaatha, train scene, kosu scene etc looks to fall under shankar's effort

[Plum]

Just because we show you some tiring plot points that dont seem to end their repetition shankar's movies, have we become bad critics?
Why should I not call you a bad critic? EKSI, I don't get it.

One last time - The *other* elements (examples are all over the place in this and in the Enthiran thread) in a Shankar film quite easily overweigh the SACness and the SACness is at a basic level i.e. the writing. And I did give you that he is not a great writer. This is my point. If you cant agree to that call me a bad no, not a critic, reviewer and move on.

Plum, I brought that intolerance angle because you said I (or we) am intolerant. I sure, am but you were trying to paint a picture that you are not. I wanted to disprove taht.

http://mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2291265#2291265
Oru opinion poruthukka mudiyalai, as if you DID - This is my point. And I already explained the jalra angle and I am even OK to take that back but are you? Refer to Hamid's post earlier in the day.

EKnerdI? You dared people to say that. I did. How does this prove i am intolerant? :lol:
You solicited that opinion from me by throwing a dare. Now trying to use that to call me intolerant is :lol:

Again, these are desparate attempts to throw mud. Sorry, vERa edhAvadhu pazhaiya relevant example iruukkum for my intolerance - thEdi koNdu vAnga :lol:

As for Hamid's'post, that doesnt prove my intolerance. That proves my ARROGANCE. Use the right word.

[P_R]

வெகுஜனத்திற்கும் விமர்சகர்களுக்கும் என்ன வித்யாசம்? வெகுஜனங்களுக்கு இடையே ஒற்றுமை இருக்கும். கலை, கமர்ஷியல் வேறுபாடு எல்லாம் கிடையாது. மனதிற்கு புடிச்சிதா, வெள்ளந்தியா சிரிப்பாங்க...துக்கம் தொண்டைய அடச்சி கண்ணீர் எட்டிப்பார்ப்பதை துடைத்துக் கொள்வார்கள்.. பாத்திரத்தோடு பாத்திரமாக கலந்து விடுவார்கள். இந்தியன், அவ்வை சண்முகி, பருத்தி வீரன், தவமாய் தவமிருந்து, பசங்க, அங்காடித் தெரு, வெ.க.குழு, எந்திரன் என ஒண்ணு விடாம..

Shylock அன்றே சொன்னோர்

If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us,
do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?



இந்த sensibility பார்த்து பார்த்து ரசிக்கிறவங்க உங்களுதலேயே இது ரொம்ப புதுசுங்க :lol:


ஒற்றுமை இருக்காது. (ஒடைச்ச கடலை சாப்பிட்டுகிட்டே) சரி..

ஆக மொத்தம் விதண்டாவாதி 'ங்கிற லேபிளை விட லேர்ந்து ஒத்துமையில்லாம பிரிஞ்சிருக்கவைங்க 'ங்க்ற லேபிள் கொஞ்சம் பரால்ல.

[Nerd]

I threw a dare at the hub which has approx 100 casual tamil film hubbers. You were the ONLY one to respond to that. The other 99 are able to tolerate that. I rest my case.

Also thanks for accepting you are intolerant too, may be at different circumstances. We are on the same plane now. Ellaam onnu dhaan, bringing in ethics etc to gain sympathy is..

And sorry I dint mean you were intolerant w.r.to Hamid's point. I should have separated that out. I was addressing the politeness angle.

[Movie Cop]

And Endhiran, is a movie where Sangar has really let his imagination run wild (in terms of visuals) and walking those sketches. Train fight scene is a case in point. Very well sketched out and executed with a strong techinkEl team at his disposal.

Sankar has stuff. But after looking at all the creative aspect available in Enthiran, quoting ALL as his imagination is not right. Still we are yet to hear what is copied, some things are already mentioned like the Red chip etc,

At one side ppl are too willing to accept enthiran is not wholly original, saying "ippo than intha trend start aagirukku, makkalukku puriyanum & whatever it is, this is india's 1st attempt"

Other side, ppl are same too willing to praise shankar to sky high for the content as a whole, when many know there are many many lifted scenes.

Let somebody come and pointout all the scenes, then we will decide.

as of now, sellaatha, train scene, kosu scene etc looks to fall under shankar's effort
Sakala,
What about the fire rescue scene, climEx grEphics & "Rangoski" moments. As far as Rangoski, the underlying theme/idea (or the lack of it) was very underwhelming. But Sangar's execution made it plausible (or at least for me). And Sangar deserves huge credit for visualizing and executing those action scenes in climEx.

[P_R]

btw Flau, Nerd sonnadhunaalayE neenga appidi sonneengannu ninaikkiREn.

Otherwise, I believe you know the equation with SAC (on whatever parameters) is not that strong.

[Plum]

Modhalla proof thedi eduthuttu vaanga. Innocent(on intolerance charge) until proven guilty :poke:

Again, how does the fact that 99 other hubbers didnt respond make me intolerant? Bad logic. The only one on my side is jai. So, there are only two people of opposite opinion to you on this so how will the other 98 jump in and say what i said? Enna kodumai logic idhu nerd?

[HonestRaj]

(ஒடைச்ச கடலை சாப்பிட்டுகிட்டே) சரி..


:lol:

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

MC,

fire rescue is shankar's. Climax has inspirations/lifts i guess. These need to be looked upon for complete list

I-robot, Bicentennial Man, Surrogates etc from aaliwud

From sujatha - Jeeno, En iniya iyanthira.

ps: we made such list for dasa too, there were few possible inspirations and shades. Mainly Dan Brown

[Nerd]

Modhalla proof thedi eduthuttu vaanga. Innocent(on intolerance charge) until proven guilty :poke:

Again, how does the fact that 99 other hubbers didnt respond make me intolerant? Bad logic. The only one on my side is jai. So, there are only two people of opposite opinion to you on this so how will the other 98 jump in and say what i said? Enna kodumai logic idhu nerd?
And Plum, this after you had made your point very clear (in an earlier panchayat, that Shankar ~= SAC. In your review I think). If someone keeps going back to that if he sees a praise for Shankar, what does it show? makkaLai thiruththum maharaasan? I would call it intolerance. Yeah, I know my logic is very tight.

[Nerd]

If say, P_R had fallen for my dare, I would have accepted that I was the instigator. But you have a record for BSing Shankar and you doing that one more time just proves that you are INTOLERANT. As simple as that.

[Plum]

No, logic is sagikkala.
You knew i had compared to SAC. Then you issued that dare. What does that mean? You wanted to say whoever compared to SAC has been disproven now. Dhairyam irundhaa marubadi solli paarungadannu dhaane arththam. You were expecting a response, therefore or you were thinking that is conclusive proof that shankar not = SAC. So why shouldnt i respond? How does that become *intolerance*?

Sorry you are just trying to cover up weak logic with aggression.

[Nerd]

Plum, old examplesaa?? :lol:

1 out of 2 posts of yours are targetting Bachchan family. Slightest praise for Bollywood/Bachchan you will be there in the next 5 mins. Enough said.

I am done with this intolerance matter. My tolerance has reached its limits :lol:

[Plum]

Kodumai logic nerd. Why would p-r take the dare when he doesnt have that opinion.
First of all, ungalukku En andha commentE thONichu? Yaaruda avan SaC kooda compare paNNinadhunnu solla kAraNamE nAn compare paNNinadhu dhaane? Appo who did you expect that response from? A new guy who hasnt compared shankar to sac before? Obviously not. That dare was at someone who called SAC comparsion earlier. That is, me. So who else will resapond?What kind of logic is this nerd? Rajaram levelukku pOyikitturukkinga

Why try to desparately call that as my intolerance now? :lol:

[Plum]

Yeah, you have to bail out of this discussion now. Obviously, logic is not on your side

[Plum]

1 out of 2 posts is incorrect. Case dismissed for doctored, incorrect, unreliable evidence :poke:

[jaiganes]

Just because we show you some tiring plot points that dont seem to end their repetition shankar's movies, have we become bad critics?
Why should I not call you a bad critic? EKSI, I don't get it.

By all means - call me a bad critic. I hold a double edged sword - my opinion - I know it will hurt both ways and I have developed a thicker skin.
All i am asking is - ask critics to shut up after qualitative evaluation - not summary dismissal because u saw a "making of" video or you are a fan of some person in the movie. I ask you that because if you are overwhelmed by the affection to the product because of your "fan" leanings, then it would do you and me a world of good to accept it and move on. In a ways the whole thread is a dare - you called my VA opinion into question by saying - VA vai pugazhndhavan Endhiranai eppadi igazhalaam? - That logic itself is childish, but I thought is a good starting point in establishing a new thread - how to observe and write about a movie. though many have done it here and done it better than me, I thought it would benefit many who see movie, have opinion, but not express it in an angle.

[Nerd]

Somebody pugazhing a childish VA itself is very childish. So I am a little grown up on that aspect.

[Nerd]

are a fan of some person in the movie.
War reh waa, I was waiting for someone to bring that up. NOw I know why the Shankar hatred :lol:

[jaiganes]

Somebody pugazhing a childish VA itself is very childish. So I am a little grown up on that aspect.
Tell me grown up, what aspects of my pugazhndhifying of VA u didnt like? I dont recall going gaga over the movie or saying "only surya fossibil" to everyone. just posted an article. Adhula enna kurai kandeer kotravanE!!

[jaiganes]

are a fan of some person in the movie.
War reh waa, I was waiting for someone to bring that up. NOw I know why the Shankar hatred :lol:
Oho appadiyaa? Appo anniyan padam paathuttu sangarai pugazhndhenaa? illai sivaji padam paathuttu sangarai igazndhEnaa?
my criticism is always based on what I feel, never clouded by any other "factor" and being a fan of somebody is decidedly a factor contributing to monumental bias. Asking the windshield to be free of stains is a "wise" thing to do.

[MADDY]

neenga fublic illa.. kiritiki..

Kalavani appa: dho poraarula, arikkii(kritiki)

im not a movie critic or music critic - i really cant be one too due to my heavy preferences towards some artistes - naanum fublic dhaanungo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkGUEKlhNHY

:rotfl: unakku nakkal romba jaasthia pochhu........sangar sir padam clippinge potturukkaan paaruya....critics baasayila, double entendre :lol2: