Golden Period of Tamil Cinema

[app_engine]

Who stopped anyone from making movies..

Did I say anyone "stopped"? By your own admission, that time period was not conducive:-) (I'm not going behind the reasons, but that was the way it was. Things simply didn't happen. Like you said, even a capable Bheemsingh had to dance to the tunes of Shivaji and had to wait for SNSM to show his true mettle much later).


Who said 70's were "art film" times? No way - uthiri, 16, AA were commerical successes. In fact, most of KB successes (i.e. main stream, not in a few theaters in Chennai alone) was also during this time period - AOT, NN, MM, TT etc. He continued with VNS, Th-Th, SB etc, all state-wide huge hits that formed the main % of successful movies. Not a miniscule 1% of market while MGR-Sivaji controlled 90% or more :-) Youngsters could make OTR and challenge all the established movie houses (Today even TR's son is a star).

Like Vijay selecting his director today was the 60's when MGR-Sivaji could select XYZ to direct their movies and fit any story to their "frame work". How can one call it a golden period?

[rajeshkrv]

I didnt mean to say 70's were art films. I meant whoever created a movie which was out of the box were considered as ART FILMS

[rajeshkrv]

KB was exception and i've mentioned KB's name long ago.. He was the one who did different and with success as well because the way he presented matched with the audience and was well received..

Uthiri pookal, Nandu were all considered as movies made for television. Yes people who know/loves creativity would definitely appreciate it but that didnt happen.. Mullum malarum had lot of factors. If just Mahendran without a star cast like that and no IR or Balu mahendra would not have created a magic like this..

[app_engine]

uthiripookkal made for TV? It was one of the biggest commerical successes then!

Actually even RK wasn't that big a star at the time of MM.

Later Mahendran did silver jubilee stuff with the likes of Mohan / Suhasini / Pratap - all non entities.

At the time of 16, none of the lead actors were sure-fire BO biggies (yes KH-RK were up and coming only). Same in the case of AA.

[app_engine]

Even if these stars had some "market value", these weren't thrust into what's happening on-screen.

Unlike the MGR-Sivaji movies :-)

[rajeshkrv]

Do you appreciate Nenjathai killadhe...
Except of the songs that movie didnt have anything.. If it was success yes many movies were success like Thirupachi etc all movies which became success need not be good too..

I didnt say udhiri pookal was made for TV but those were categorized by public as the ART Films or Award films.

What are you even talking about. 1960's other than MGR and Shivaji movies there were no movies at all. There were several movies which were successful and some gave tough fight with MGR-Shivaji movies as well.

Adutha veetu pen a fun fare comedy tried during that period was a runaway success..

bhagyalakshmi was a very good story on child marriage and what a happens after math..

Kumudham, manapandhal, Saradha,Karpagam,Maniyosai,Naanum oru Pen,Idhaya Kamalam,Vaazhkai Padagu,Chinnanjiru ulagam,Chithi,Kodi malar,Poovum Pottum and many more were non MGR and Shivaji movies which had different subject and presented well within the limits given during that time period

[jaiganes]

KB was exception and i've mentioned KB's name long ago.. He was the one who did different and with success as well because the way he presented matched with the audience and was well received..

[b]Uthiri pookal, Nandu were all considered as movies made for television. Yes people who know/loves creativity would definitely appreciate it but that didnt happen.. Mullum malarum had lot of factors. If just Mahendran without a star cast like that and no IR or Balu mahendra would not have created a magic like this..[b]

As much as I am a devotee of IR's magic, statement like this is 'WAY TOO MUCH' and it only reflects the sad state that hub society is in these days.

[rajeshkrv]

jaiganes,

if my statement had hurt you i'm sorry for that.
I meant that without all the factors MM would not have been a hit ..

That is what i meant

[app_engine]

rajeshkrv,

nenjathai kiLLathE to compare with thirupAchchi?

Well, I don't think there's any point in engaging in a discussion like this - let's save some BP :-)

[rajeshkrv]

app_engine, you didnt get my point. I now way compared nenjathai killathe to thirupachi..
whatever gets hit doesnt mean good.. i meant that.. it's no way comparison of both the films..

[Plum]

App, bail out before your pressure shoots up. This thread has a motive - the conclusion of this thread has already been written - and that doesn't deal with the golden period but muck throwing at some one and concluding that his prev and post generation are humble buddhaperumans. People seriously discussing golden period are victims - whether it is you or rajeshkrv :)

[Plum]

App, bail out before your pressure shoots up. This thread has a motive - the conclusion of this thread has already been written - and that doesn't deal with the golden period but muck throwing at some one and concluding that his prev and post generation are humble buddhaperumans. People seriously discussing golden period here are victims - whether it is you or rajeshkrv :)

[Scale]

Thank you very much for your understanding! Can't press out any better.

Its Jocks Vs Nerds!

<the 2 decade younger kid have done lot of research which was not taught during the school of cinemas>

[Scale]

The thought itself a "height of stupidity" that anyone could write a conclusion in such a open forum.

[Irene Hastings]

60களில் ஸ்ரீதர் என்ற ஒரு இயக்குநர் இருந்தார். அவர் செய்த சாதனைகள் மகத்தானவை. அது திருவாளர் ஏ.பி.பி. எஞ்ஜினீருக்கு தெரியாது போலும். ஒருவேளை அவர் பள்ளிகூடத்தில் படிப்பவரோ ?

[app_engine]

60களில் ஸ்ரீதர் என்ற ஒரு இயக்குநர் இருந்தார். அவர் செய்த சாதனைகள் மகத்தானவை. அது திருவாளர் ஏ.பி.பி. எஞ்ஜினீருக்கு தெரியாது போலும். ஒருவேளை அவர் பள்ளிகூடத்தில் படிப்பவரோ ?

For your kind info, I'm 45.

Please post about Sridhar and avoid personal attacks :-) In any case, I'm always a student :-)

[HonestRaj]

60களில் ஸ்ரீதர் என்ற ஒரு இயக்குநர் இருந்தார். அவர் செய்த சாதனைகள் மகத்தானவை. அது திருவாளர் ஏ.பி.பி. எஞ்ஜினீருக்கு தெரியாது போலும். ஒருவேளை அவர் பள்ளிகூடத்தில் படிப்பவரோ ?

avaru vayasu 45.. 45'nu vaaippu kidaikkumpodhellam sollittu irukkaru...

[app_engine]

For the attention of any who want to read about "golden periods" (of various Indian cinema fields)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_India

As expected, this clearly says about MF having its own "golden period" during 80's (typically acknowledged by most pundits). I'm so fond of the MF during 80's as well:-)

IMO, TF had films "similar those of 80's MF" during late 70's :-)

(The article also states that the "quality" of TF improved during 80's and the "new age cinema" of India happened during 70's while talking about 40's to 60's as golden period)

[app_engine]

If one reads the wikipedia about bollywood at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollywood
and then compares the one about kollywood at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_cinema
, the contrast is quite interesting.

TF seems to be a tale of heroes :-(

நல்ல வேளை இந்த பாரதிராசாவும் மகேந்திரனும் வந்து "கண்ட-கண்ட" மூஞ்சியெல்லாம் வச்சு சினிமா எடுத்து வித்தியாசம் காட்டினாங்க :-)

[Scale]

I have already highlighted MM song and Rajni's heroism (now coming to UP (-) the flaw (biggest) which I want to wreak here is the song "pip pipp pee pee....kalyaanam paaru appavoda kalyaanam paaru" the girl singing to her nieces when Vijayan got married to his second wife. adikadi solluveenghale vaipillaamai adhu idhu thaan. Imagine if a song features in any of today's film Nerd & Bala would be rolling on the subways. Infact a movie like UP doesn't need songs. Yet UP & MM are classic film making (I need a better word) just thought of mentioning these flaws here.

Both Mahendran & BR made movies only with popular, atleast known artist. kanda kanda moonjinellaam eppadi solreengha app. If you are in good spirit and want to take this thread further I would place my bet on "En Raasavin Manasile (1991)" astoundingly new cast with Rajkiran :notworthy:, Meena & Vadivelu. Poor Mahendran doesnt know that Rajkiran will make such a movie later. The plot deftly handles Muradan character, soothattam, kudi, thaai paasam, ponjaathi paasam and wife's death. Outstanding Music & Lyrics. If Mahendran is alive today what I think is he would have written a sequel to Raj kiran's character with her baby on his arms about second marriage. And ofcourse with IR!

Yeah, I am a Buddhan!

[Scale]

app_e

Please dont post any wiki links. adhu namakku thevai illai :)

[venkkiram]

90-களில் வந்த சிறந்த படமாக நான் கருதுவதில் ஒன்று அகத்தியன் இயக்கிய "விடுகதை". படமே ஒரு நூலைப் படித்ததொரு உணர்வை ஏற்படுத்தும். சோதனை முயற்சியில் அகத்தியன் வெற்றி பெற்றதாகவே உணர்கிறேன்.

[P_R]

90-களில் வந்த சிறந்த படமாக நான் கருதுவதில் ஒன்று அகத்தியன் இயக்கிய "விடுகதை". படமே ஒரு நூலைப் படித்ததொரு உணர்வை ஏற்படுத்தும். சோதனை முயற்சியில் அகத்தியன் வெற்றி பெற்றதாகவே உணர்கிறேன். அதை ஒரு சோதனை முயற்சியாகவே உணர்கிறேன்.

[Irene Hastings]

60களில் ஸ்ரீதர் என்ற ஒரு இயக்குநர் இருந்தார். அவர் செய்த சாதனைகள் மகத்தானவை. அது திருவாளர் ஏ.பி.பி. எஞ்ஜினீருக்கு தெரியாது போலும். ஒருவேளை அவர் பள்ளிகூடத்தில் படிப்பவரோ ?

For your kind info, I'm 45.

Please post about Sridhar and avoid personal attacks :-) In any case, I'm always a student :-)

அன்புள்ள நண்பரே

எப்போது நீங்கள் ஸ்ரீதரை பற்றி எழுத சொன்னீர்களோ அப்போதே தெரியவில்லையா அய்யா உங்களின் வயது . ஏன் 45 என்று சொல்கிறீர்கள் ! ஸ்ரீதர் கொடுத்த படங்களின் பெயரை சொன்னாலே போதும்.
சிறு உதாரணத்திற்கு :

கல்யாணப்பரிசு
காதலிக்க நேரமில்லை
சுமை தாங்கி
Nenjil oru alayam
Edhirparadhadhu
Kalaikovil
Thennilavu

You are portraying as if only Mahendran & BR had changed the course of Tamil cinema :evil:

Besides, Vennira adai was an experimental movie . Just watch it. You will see shades of Balu Mahendra / Mahendran style already captured . The story of a young widow coming out of a state of mental imbalance . You know who acted in that character ? :)

Sridhar's contribution to Cinema is immense. He had delivered superior quality movies . But forget what he did later in his career. :wink:

[Scale]

Its really sad indeed we have crossed 19pages till now not even one have mentioned Nassar's directorial movies. A Perfectionist to the core and a prodigious talent never seen before. Every one or the other best movies of 90's will have Nassar written over it. The reason being Link (http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/theatre/article13108.ece)

Avataram or Devathai from 90's.

[raghavendran]

Its really sad indeed we have crossed 19pages till now not even one have mentioned Nassar's directorial movies. A Perfectionist to the core and a prodigious talent never seen before. Every one or the other best movies of 90's will have Nassar written over it. The reason being Link (http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/theatre/article13108.ece)

Avataram or Devathai from 90's.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[app_engine]

Irene,

I asked you to post about Sridhar because that would be more meaningful to the thread rather than discussing about the qualifications of one app_engine. Not that I don't know about Sridhar.

You may want to visit this thread that was opened by none other than this school kid, BTW :

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=12220&start=0

[Sanjeevi]

Sridhar was very good and can compete as top director. But one person can not enough to life the period. This thread is for the period, right? and not for degrading Sridhar or promoting Mahendran.

[joe]

Its really sad indeed we have crossed 19pages till now not even one have mentioned Nassar's directorial movies.

Neenga yen sollala? :roll:

[Scale]

The point being stressed here is 60's has too many legends where as all the rest of the following decades has seen only very few notable talents rarely consistent and versatile.

"You can be one of the greatest soccer player but cannot be a good coach - K Balachandar :notworthy:"


Please pass the baton!

[Vivasaayi]

The point being stressed here is 60's has too many legends where as all the rest of the following decades has seen only very few notable talents rarely consistent and versatile.



:lol:

sari...60's list kudunga....!

[Vivasaayi]

90-களில் வந்த சிறந்த படமாக நான் கருதுவதில் ஒன்று அகத்தியன் இயக்கிய "விடுகதை". படமே ஒரு நூலைப் படித்ததொரு உணர்வை ஏற்படுத்தும். சோதனை முயற்சியில் அகத்தியன் வெற்றி பெற்றதாகவே உணர்கிறேன். அதை ஒரு சோதனை முயற்சியாகவே உணர்கிறேன்.

:lol:

[Vivasaayi]

I have already highlighted MM song and Rajni's heroism (now coming to UP (-) the flaw (biggest) which I want to wreak here is the song "pip pipp pee pee....kalyaanam paaru appavoda kalyaanam paaru" the girl singing to her nieces when Vijayan got married to his second wife. adikadi solluveenghale vaipillaamai adhu idhu thaan. Imagine if a song features in any of today's film Nerd & Bala would be rolling on the subways. Infact a movie like UP doesn't need songs. Yet UP & MM are classic film making (I need a better word) just thought of mentioning these flaws here.

Both Mahendran & BR made movies only with popular, atleast known artist. kanda kanda moonjinellaam eppadi solreengha app. If you are in good spirit and want to take this thread further I would place my bet on "En Raasavin Manasile (1991)" astoundingly new cast with Rajkiran :notworthy:, Meena & Vadivelu. Poor Mahendran doesnt know that Rajkiran will make such a movie later. The plot deftly handles Muradan character, soothattam, kudi, thaai paasam, ponjaathi paasam and wife's death. Outstanding Music & Lyrics. If Mahendran is alive today what I think is he would have written a sequel to Raj kiran's character with her baby on his arms about second marriage. And ofcourse with IR!

Yeah, I am a Buddhan!

:?

Long live mahendran.I hope u mean artistically!

[Vivasaayi]

To me Johnny is Mahendran's best movie - crispy and aesthetically beautiful - the most subtle entertainer in Tamil cinema.

:notworthy:

[venkkiram]

To me Johnny is Mahendran's best movie - crispy and aesthetically beautiful - the most subtle entertainer in Tamil cinema.

:notworthy:இதுக்கு நீங்க பேசாம மகேந்திரனை திட்டியிருக்கலாம். உதிரிப்பூக்கள், முள்ளும் மலரும் இருக்க ஜானியை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது கனிகள் இருக்க காயை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது போலாகும்.

ஏங்க! ஒருத்தி மேடையில் சோகமா பாடுவாளாம்! எங்கேயோ தலைமறைவாய் இருக்கும் அவளின் காதலன் அந்த குரலைக் கேட்டு ஓஓஓஒ..............டி வருவாராம்!

மகேந்திரனின் திறமை நீர்த்துப் போனது ஜானியில் தான். அதை நீங்கள் சிறந்த படம் எனச் சொல்வது ஆச்சர்யமளிக்கிறது.

[HonestRaj]

மகேந்திரனின் திறமை நீர்த்துப் போனது

Kai Kodukkum Kai

[jaiganes]

To me Johnny is Mahendran's best movie - crispy and aesthetically beautiful - the most subtle entertainer in Tamil cinema.

:notworthy:இதுக்கு நீங்க பேசாம மகேந்திரனை திட்டியிருக்கலாம். உதிரிப்பூக்கள், முள்ளும் மலரும் இருக்க ஜானியை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது கனிகள் இருக்க காயை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது போலாகும்.

ஏங்க! ஒருத்தி மேடையில் சோகமா பாடுவாளாம்! எங்கேயோ தலைமறைவாய் இருக்கும் அவளின் காதலன் அந்த குரலைக் கேட்டு ஓஓஓஒ..............டி வருவாராம்!

மகேந்திரனின் திறமை நீர்த்துப் போனது ஜானியில் தான். அதை நீங்கள் சிறந்த படம் எனச் சொல்வது ஆச்சர்யமளிக்கிறது.

unga criticisathula logic flaw irukku.
He doesnt come to the venue after hearing her singing from long distance. It is a pre announced public song show for which he is coming - and that too it is not him - it is vidhyasagar - just to get caught in pre laid police trap.

[app_engine]

and that too it is not him - it is vidhyasagar - just to get caught in pre laid police trap.

Johny also sees the ad in a newspaper (which was unbelievable) and makes it to the site, conveniently after the look-alike is caught.

Not so great - heavily compromised for a mostly nicely done movie (this and the Asaya kAththula are aberrations)

[Sanjeevi]

To me Johnny is Mahendran's best movie - crispy and aesthetically beautiful - the most subtle entertainer in Tamil cinema.

:notworthy:இதுக்கு நீங்க பேசாம மகேந்திரனை திட்டியிருக்கலாம். உதிரிப்பூக்கள், முள்ளும் மலரும் இருக்க ஜானியை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது கனிகள் இருக்க காயை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது போலாகும்.

ஏங்க! ஒருத்தி மேடையில் சோகமா பாடுவாளாம்! எங்கேயோ தலைமறைவாய் இருக்கும் அவளின் காதலன் அந்த குரலைக் கேட்டு ஓஓஓஒ..............டி வருவாராம்!

மகேந்திரனின் திறமை நீர்த்துப் போனது ஜானியில் தான். அதை நீங்கள் சிறந்த படம் எனச் சொல்வது ஆச்சர்யமளிக்கிறது.

unga criticisathula logic flaw irukku.
He doesnt come to the venue after hearing her singing from long distance. It is a pre announced public song show for which he is coming - and that too it is not him - it is vidhyasagar - just to get caught in pre laid police trap.

yes yes, Venki Jhony parthu naal aacha? allathu song TV la paathu anumaanama?

[Sanjeevi]

Muthalla 100% look alike appadinalE anga fantacy etti parkuthE. Mathapadi IMO Jhony is very good movie. Very good movie appadina romba manasa piLiyura story irukkanumnu avasiyam illaiyE

[app_engine]

There's one thing however - we can practically pick on any movie and tear apart.

That is not the purpose of this thread, in my perception.

It should be to talk about the general climate of movie making, talents that flourished, reasonably good / extremely bad kind of samples, % of novel attempts that succeeded (i.e. commercially, cinema is not for labs but for people's entertainment) etc that define a period. Why, even awards from reputed institutions can be used as a yardstick (unfortunately, NA has so bad a reputation).

I'm definitely NOT interested in "tearing apart" any individual movie - even those of 60's - many of which are highly regarded by me, despite the easy holes that can be picked on and flogged, in every one of them.

[Vivasaayi]

To me Johnny is Mahendran's best movie - crispy and aesthetically beautiful - the most subtle entertainer in Tamil cinema.

:notworthy:இதுக்கு நீங்க பேசாம மகேந்திரனை திட்டியிருக்கலாம். உதிரிப்பூக்கள், முள்ளும் மலரும் இருக்க ஜானியை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது கனிகள் இருக்க காயை தேர்ந்தெடுப்பது போலாகும்.

ஏங்க! ஒருத்தி மேடையில் சோகமா பாடுவாளாம்! எங்கேயோ தலைமறைவாய் இருக்கும் அவளின் காதலன் அந்த குரலைக் கேட்டு ஓஓஓஒ..............டி வருவாராம்!

மகேந்திரனின் திறமை நீர்த்துப் போனது ஜானியில் தான். அதை நீங்கள் சிறந்த படம் எனச் சொல்வது ஆச்சர்யமளிக்கிறது.

அவுங்க பாடுறதுக்கு முன்னாடி,பாடப் போறாங்கன்னு போஷ்டர் அடிச்சு ஒட்டுனத நீங்க பாக்கலியா?

[MADDY]

stormy, heavy rains but still mike works and sridevi sings over it, hmmm......i too was not convinced with that scene.........but that was not the point of scene anyways.......

[Scale]

We have already witnessed so many areas Music (D), Lyrics(T), Dialoq's, Director's List/Movies/Versatility & certain flaws etc... The play is in its halfway through and there is no question of starting it again. I would stress that the criticism has to be left as hard as it can then only we will be able to find out the best films of any era. akkaruthukku muran karuthukkal ullavai endraal pariseelanai seyyalaam. The one I have mentioned in UP & MM are extremely bad & direful parts in the film which only qualifies in this discussion and thanks for saving my time on 'Johnny'.

I would appreciate if someone take a similar stand and point out the flaws in 60's film.

[Vivasaayi]

We have already witnessed so many areas Music (D), Lyrics(T), Dialoq's, Director's List/Movies/Versatility & certain flaws etc... The play is in its halfway through and there is no question of starting it again. I would stress that the criticism has to be left as hard as it can then only we will be able to find out the best films of any era. akkaruthukku muran karuthukkal ullavai endraal pariseelanai seyyalaam. The one I have mentioned in UP & MM are extremely bad & direful parts in the film which only qualifies in this discussion and thanks for saving my time on 'Johnny'.


yEnpaaa associates..yEn manageroda velaya korainkureenga...

[Scale]

Viv,

You better be watchful here.

[Vivasaayi]

Viv,

You better be watchful here.

idhu avlo bayyyyyyyyanggaarraraaamaa edamaaa? :?

[Scale]

You seams to show lot of grin faces on every post. Not good.

[Vivasaayi]

You seams to show lot of grin faces on every post. Not good.

:D indha maadhiri face-a vechukatuma?... J/K

[Vivasaayi]

scale,

kidding apart,can you come up with few movies of 60's that u say were the best of the decade...

[Scale]

Didn't your grandma tell a story of "seethaikku raaman sithappa"? :roll:

[Vivasaayi]

Didn't your grandma tell a story of "seethaikku raaman sithappa"? :roll:

edhukku..then u may accuse her for stealing the story from paatti vada sutta kadhai...adhaan vendamnu solliten

if someone ask u may tell - that is paatti vada sutta kadhai..idhu unga paati sutta kadai...pure plagiarism apdimbeega....

[Vivasaayi]

watched iru kodugal last week on K TV..

such a pain to watch balachander movies at times.

his wife wants to check if gemini is in collectors home.

calls her son

son who is doing sum : indha kanakku epdi potalum thappa varudhemmaa

wife : en kanakkum thappa varanumnuthanda aasapadren

:banghead:

life and file scene.... :mad:....

mostly in every scenelayum double meaning - ofcourse not that double meaning

[Scale]

Stealing someone's idea/script is much more a deplorable cirminal act than bribing & prostitution.
I don't support that kind of achievements filled in your discography.

My 60's film is in the 3rd page(Revisable).

[Vivasaayi]

Stealing someone's idea/script is much more a deplorable cirminal act than bribing & prostitution.
I don't support that kind of achievements filled in your discography.

My 60's film is in the 3rd page.

purileeng...anyway - Im talking abt ur posts on musical plagiarism


and yeah ..just asking for few movies u consider the best..just 1 or 2

[P_R]

life and file scene.... :mad:....
:lol:

Was iru kOdugaL also a play turned into a movie ?

[Scale]

That isn't a issue! If someone made a film and you flicked those scenes then that is stealing! Novel/Play/Epic storya padam edutha adhu thiruttaaghaadhu.

[Vivasaayi]

life and file scene.... :mad:....
:lol:

Was iru kOdugaL also a play turned into a movie ?

dont know..

direction touch panlam..aanaa balachander ella edathulayum sagattumenikku touch pannidraru...

[Vivasaayi]

That isn't a issue! If someone made a film and you flicked those scenes then that is stealing! Novel/Play/Epic storya padam edutha adhu thiruttaaghaadhu.

aahaaa....noone is accusing balachander for stealing here...he just asked if this was balachanders play turned into cinema...

neenga oru cinema CID nga..

[Scale]

Viv,

You dont know. PR listed his movies sometime back and I owe him an explanation.

neraya velai irukku later :tata:

[Vivasaayi]

Viv,

You dont know. PR listed his movies sometime back and I owe him an explanation.

neraya velai irukku later :tata:

issue is Iru kodugal doesnt deserve to be discussed even - its not an isuse if it is from play or some other medium...

well - the film itself looked like a stageplay is another issue

[P_R]

Viv,

You dont know. PR listed his movies sometime back and I owe him an explanation.

neraya velai irukku later :tata:
puriyalai - which of my movies are 'lifts' in your opinion ?
Kurudhippunal - Drohkaal. It was something that was done with the cognizance and approval of Govind Nihalani, the director of the original. It was a blessed remake and Nihalani most famously said it was better than the original !

[Scale]

Pay me my share I will tell 90's are the best and do whatever better propaganda you can.

Plagiarism/Remakes/Copywrited remakes/Blessed Remakes (Interesting!) simply doesnt qualify for this discussion. We have better movies.

Anyhow, This is one topic which I dont want to discuss now.

Later, PR.

[Scale]

Vijay Antony did it better (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=12068&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=270) & Dinesh made a similar statement in Srilanka like GN.

[P_R]

Pay me my share I will tell 90's are the best and do whatever better propaganda you can. puriyalai. irundhaalum..eppidi dhenathikkum pEsikkalaamA, mAsAmAsam pEsikkalaamA.


Plagiarism/Remakes/Copywrited remakes/Blessed Remakes (Interesting!) simply doesnt qualify for this discussion. We have better movies. Okay then you quote a film I will attempt to relate it to some Mahabharatha story. Indha game nallA irukkum. :-)

Late 80s-90s Kamal made the best films in the history of Tamil Films is my unhumble submission. Liking older films is at best an amusing indulgence and can never carry me in raptures and engage me as well.

[Scale]

Check the link of Vijay Antony. KP is a good remake doesnt qualify for this discussion.

[Vivasaayi]

Pay me my share I will tell 90's are the best and do whatever better propaganda you can.

Plagiarism/Remakes/Copywrited remakes/Blessed Remakes (Interesting!) simply doesnt qualify for this discussion. We have better movies.

Anyhow, This is one topic which I dont want to discuss now.

Later, PR.

ohh....do u say 60's movies are not inspired from foriegn movies?...even in this week thirumbi parkiren program AVM listed the movies that they have used to make tamil flavoured screenplay.

or u can try Hindu weekly article on old movies..u can how many movies had their roots from hollywood/whatever.

[Scale]

Did I say that? :roll: My list is yet revisable. I am sure you cant even take 2-3 out of it!

[Plum]

Feeyaar, nIngaLumA indha thread-la seriousA argue paNNikittu. adhAn avaru thIrpu sollittArE - adhukku edhirA karuthu sonnA summary dismissal pandrAr - adhukkappuramum nInga app enginelAm seriousA reply pandradhu - allow me this indulgence at your expense - :lol:

[Scale]

Plum,

Are you an alter-ego of that grin face? :roll:

Why interfere in our discussion? :evil:

[P_R]

Plum, I don't think I have it in me to understand the musical lift allegations made in the Hub. I get off the bus when the charge reads: "Same chord progression with changed tempo and, cut in half and looped". As I mentioned a few days a back: I only consider Buffalo soldiers--> akila akila type "alEkA" lifting and placing a lift. I just don't perceive similarity beyond that. Am not being false-modest etc. when I say this. I just don't get what you call a musical lift. Remember the discussions during VaraNam Ayiram ?

Now I guess VA calling himself composer is the bone of contention, right ? Fine. Why is this at all central in determining how 'good' a film is ?

For the purposes of this thread let us suppose that all title cards in films just had the following single slide: "the makers of this film have been influenced in varying degree by several other works of arts and what passes for incidents in their lives, and do not wish to name themselves as those who are worthy of credit".

With this assumption shall we proceed to discuss the films ?

[Plum]

adhAn apdi ellAm discuss paNNa mudiyAdhunnu solliyAchE. The thread shall only proceed if you agree that the films you listed from 90's are kalyani covering and therefore, not worthy of a jewellery exhibition :evil:

[Scale]

Why dont you buy that kalyani covering at today's gold price and take home? :phew:

[P_R]

[tscii:cd65f2e3a4]I have quoted this to Scale when discussing about VA long back, but it bears repetition. It is an old post by hubber Kumar that came up in the topic "Kamal's Hollywood Copies" :-)


This is a period movie. The English occupiers have gone overboard and are now treating the locals badly and have made unreasonable demands. The local leader takes up arms and declares war on the English. He wins a few battles at first, but loses a loved one. And because of a betrayal from one of his own, he is forced to go into hiding. Finally, he is caught, but he refuses to submit. He accepts his death sentence, and dies a hero.

The above is a description of 2 movies; one Hollywood and the other a Tamil one. The Tamil movie is “Veerapandiya Kattabomman”, and the Hollywood one is “Braveheart”. Now, do we assume that “Braveheart” was inspired by “Kattabomman”? After all, it’s the same theme, storyline, character types, etc, only some characters have been changed: Kattaboman loses his brother, Wallace loses his wife (and father). [/tscii:cd65f2e3a4]

[P_R]

Scale, what IYO are the good original 90s films ?

[Scale]

idhu discussionukku alagu. Sure :relief: :later:

[Scale]

Yesterday I read something very interesting which I want to quote


He's battled Robot's & Blue Aliens now takes on Greek Myths in "The Clash of Titans" - Sam Worthington

:skull:

[Scale]

btb, Kumar's post is a classic sappaikattu! Muzhu sothu panaiya kallaparuppula maraikkira velai.

now try attempting one more movie and show any scene/music lift.

[Vivasaayi]

scale,

Im asking this to you as u were dealing with plagiarism more than anyone else.

Tell me if this is plagiarism or now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7rmoSODlf4 - nisarisa by ar rahman (Jeans)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvYygjcMDdQ - michael jackson


will u be there - part and the nisarisa part - almost matching exactly.

already maddy kooda idhukku sandayellam potachu!..but you are the right person..idhu copiya illaya?

[P_R]

[tscii:c276888ef3]Here is one more sappaikkattu (http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=4519)


மகாபாரதம் வியாசனின் ஆக்கம். வியாசன் உச்சரித்து விட்டவையே உலகில் அத்தனை கதைகளும் ‘வியாச உச்சிஷ்டம் ஜகத் சர்வம்’ என்ற தொன்மையான பழமொழி கூறுவதும் இதையே.

வியாசனின் பக்தராக இருந்தார் லோகி. ஒருமுறை அவரது கதை ஒன்றின்மீது உரிமைகோரி ஒரு வழக்கு தொடுக்கப்பட்டது. பாலக்காடு நீதிமன்றத்தில் லோகி கூண்டில் ஏறினார். நீதிபதி கேட்டார். “உங்கள் கதை அசலா?” லோகி சொன்னார் “இல்லை” நீதிபதியும் வழக்கறிஞர்களும் அதிர்ந்து போனார்கள். “அப்படியானால் இது யாருடைய கதை?” என்றார் நீதிபதி. “இது வியாச மகரிஷியின் கதை. மண்ணில் எழுதப்படும் கதைகள் அனைத்துமே அவர் உருவாக்கிய கதைகளின் நகல்கள்தான்.” என்றார் லோகி

“இந்தக் கதையின் மூல வடிவத்தைச் சொல்லுங்கள்” என்றார் நீதிபதி. லோகி அதை விவரித்தார். உணர்ச்சிகரமாக கதை சொல்பவர் அவர். நீதிமன்றத்தில் ஆர்வம் பரவியது. ‘அப்படியானால் இது எந்தக்கதை?’ என்று இன்னொரு கதையைச் சுட்டிக்காட்டி கேட்டார் நீதிபதி. அதன் மூலத்தை விளக்கினார் லோகி. அப்படியானால் இது? அதையும் லோகி விளக்கினார். மகாபாரதத்தின் முடிவிலா முகங்கள்.


“அப்படியானால் உங்கள் பங்களிப்புதான் என்ன?” என்றார் நீதிபதி. லோகி “நான் அந்தக்கதைகளுக்கு சமகால வாழ்க்கையை அளிக்கிறேன். என் ரத்தத்தாலும், கண்ணீராலும் அவற்றுக்கு உணர்ச்சிகளை அளிக்கிறேன். நான் அந்தக் கதைகளில் மீண்டும் வாழ்கிறேன். அதில் தெரியும் கதை புராதனமானது. அதில் உள்ள வாழ்க்கை என்னுடையது. என் கண்ணிரும் சிரிப்பும் அவற்றை இன்றைய ரசிகனுக்கு கொண்டு செல்கின்றன” என்றார். வழக்கு தள்ளுபடியாயிற்று.


நான் கேட்டேன், “சரி லோகி, கிரீடம் மகாபாரதத்தில் எந்தக்கதை?” லோகி புன்னகை புரிந்தார். “சேதுமாதவன் ஒரு கடையின் வாசலில் அமர்ந்திருந்தான். அவன் கண்முன் எதிர்காலம் பற்றிய கனவுகள். வேலை. ஒரு காதலி. இனிய ஒரு குடும்ப வாழ்க்கை. அப்போது அவனுடைய கண்ணுக்கு முன்னால் அந்தச் சிறிய நகரத்தின் முச்சந்தியில் ஒரு பத்மலியூகம் விரிந்தது. அதற்குள் நுழைய அவனுக்குத் தெரியும். ஆனால் வெளியேற வழி தெரியாது. அவனுக்கு என்று அல்ல, எவருக்குமே அதிலிருந்து வெளியேறும் வழி தெரியாததுதான். சேது ஒரு கணம் தயங்கினான். அவனுக்குத் தெரியும் உள்ளே நுழைந்தால் என்ன ஆகும் என்று. ஆனால் ஒன்றும் செய்ய முடியாது. அது அவன் அப்பாவுக்குச் செய்தாக வேண்டிய கடமை. அதை அவன் செய்யவில்லை என்றால் கோழையாக ஆகிவிடுவான். ஆகவே அவன் இறங்கி வந்தான். வியூகத்தை உடைத்து உள்ளே புகுந்தான். கீரிக்காடன் ஜோஸை தாக்கினான்.”

ஆம், அபிமன்யுவின் கதையேதான்.
[/tscii:c276888ef3]

[Vivasaayi]

[tscii:7793f0d581]

“அப்படியானால் உங்கள் பங்களிப்புதான் என்ன?” என்றார் நீதிபதி. லோகி “நான் அந்தக்கதைகளுக்கு சமகால வாழ்க்கையை அளிக்கிறேன். என் ரத்தத்தாலும், கண்ணீராலும் அவற்றுக்கு உணர்ச்சிகளை அளிக்கிறேன். நான் அந்தக் கதைகளில் மீண்டும் வாழ்கிறேன். அதில் தெரியும் கதை புராதனமானது. அதில் உள்ள வாழ்க்கை என்னுடையது. என் கண்ணிரும் சிரிப்பும் அவற்றை இன்றைய ரசிகனுக்கு கொண்டு செல்கின்றன” என்றார். வழக்கு தள்ளுபடியாயிற்று.

:clap:

Its a crime to call a movie as a copy or accusing an artist of plagiarism,just like that.As Kamal said - even Kamba ramayanam is a remake.Its about what the artist brings to the table on his own.[/tscii:7793f0d581]

[littlemaster1982]

[tscii:4bf1024cd6]

நான் கேட்டேன், “சரி லோகி, கிரீடம் மகாபாரதத்தில் எந்தக்கதை?” லோகி புன்னகை புரிந்தார். “சேதுமாதவன் ஒரு கடையின் வாசலில் அமர்ந்திருந்தான். அவன் கண்முன் எதிர்காலம் பற்றிய கனவுகள். வேலை. ஒரு காதலி. இனிய ஒரு குடும்ப வாழ்க்கை. அப்போது அவனுடைய கண்ணுக்கு முன்னால் அந்தச் சிறிய நகரத்தின் முச்சந்தியில் ஒரு பத்மலியூகம் விரிந்தது. அதற்குள் நுழைய அவனுக்குத் தெரியும். ஆனால் வெளியேற வழி தெரியாது. அவனுக்கு என்று அல்ல, எவருக்குமே அதிலிருந்து வெளியேறும் வழி தெரியாததுதான். சேது ஒரு கணம் தயங்கினான். அவனுக்குத் தெரியும் உள்ளே நுழைந்தால் என்ன ஆகும் என்று. ஆனால் ஒன்றும் செய்ய முடியாது. அது அவன் அப்பாவுக்குச் செய்தாக வேண்டிய கடமை. அதை அவன் செய்யவில்லை என்றால் கோழையாக ஆகிவிடுவான். ஆகவே அவன் இறங்கி வந்தான். வியூகத்தை உடைத்து உள்ளே புகுந்தான். கீரிக்காடன் ஜோஸை தாக்கினான்.”

ஆம், அபிமன்யுவின் கதையேதான்.


WOW :shock:[/tscii:4bf1024cd6]

[groucho070]

I shall give this thread one more day, and I am sure it will be talking about Joseph Campbell :roll:

[Scale]

P_R,

You dont seams to get my point right.

1. Oru case thallupadi seyyalaam ethana seiya mudiyum.

2. You mean to say that by lifting other scripts/scenes that you have shed your sweat & tears to please viewers everytime.

3. If someone makes a movie and you lift the plot/scene/music that is Plagiarism. I repeat cnverting Novel/Epic stories in to movies cannot be called lifted.

4. The Hare & the tortoise, The crow and the Fox has a tamil version. All these ancient stories have been all someway derived/circulated in every part of the country. Indian/Tamilan History padichittu oruthavan hollywoodla padam eduthu adha thiruttunnu solla matten. Tamil cinemavilirundhu oru scene thirudina thaan adhu thiruttu. You know Avatar could have been inspired from Tamil Story (I don't remember that now)

[Vivasaayi]

idhu aavuradhilla

ok..scale..tell us the movies that u feel are copied...especially from the movies P_R has mentioned(apdiya)...or else dont talk abt plagiarism

[Scale]

Some bitter truths needs to be dipped in HCL and tasted. And I am ready for that if someone offers me counteractively on valid perspectives.

[Vivasaayi]

Some bitter truths needs to be dipped in HCL and tasted. And I am ready for that if someone offers me counteractively on valid perspectives.

shabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

[P_R]

P_R,You dont seams to get my point right. I am exaggerating for effect so as to just get you to name which of my 90s movies is a lift.

2. You mean to say that by lifting other scripts/scenes that you have shed your sweat & tears to please viewers everytime. I am saying, as a viewer, it does not bother me muchl. OTOH if my script (ezhudhittAlum !) is stolen, I'll probably hire a contract killer


3. If someone makes a movie and you lift the plot/scene/music that is Plagiarism. Fine. Apart from Kurudhippunal which are the 90s movies I listed where you allege this happened.

Meanwhile let me also go fetch my ammo word: 'tribute' :-)

[Scale]

:lol: typo tested.


Have you tried putting your handkerchief on HCL/H2SO4 during your chemistry labs? Knowingly!

[P_R]

Some bitter truths needs to be dipped in HCL and tasted. ennanga molagA bajji-ku kaara chutney thottukkura maadhiri solreenga :lol2:


And I am ready for that if someone offers me counteractively on valid perspectives. neenga mudhalla "bitter truth" edhunnu sonnAdhAnE counteract paNNa mudiyin.

[Plum]

ennanga molagA bajji-ku kaara chutney thottukkura maadhiri solreenga :lol2:

[

:rotfl:

[P_R]

Have you tried putting your handkerchief on HCL/H2SO4 during your chemistry labs? Knowingly! yEn...Acid oothiruvEnnu mirattureengaLA ?

[Scale]

Plagiarism on detail and the list of your movies shall be discussed later.

che.. che... antha effecta sonnen.

[P_R]

Okay fine.

Actually I was not sure what are the movies I listed and went back and checked :oops:

For those of you who are - for some reason dicated by your best judgement- closely following this discussion:


ThEvar Magan, Mahanadhi, Michael Madana KamaRajan, Guna, Hey Ram, Kurudhippunal
the defence wrests


PR, wholeheartedly agree :ty:

[Scale]

PR,

Humble request :wink:


ellorukkum therinja vishayam thaan I will add some more. For now I would like to be a viewer and safeguard this thread.

[Vivasaayi]

PR,

Humble request :wink:


ellorukkum therinja vishayam thaan I will add some more. For now I would like to be a viewer and safeguard this thread.

indha dakaaltilaam enga kitta vendaam..

tell us the movies that u mention as plagiarised!..or else let the moderators close the thread..

[equanimus]

Frankly, it's quite stunning to see someone consider an inconsequential song like "kalyANam pAru" a serious flaw in 'uthirip pUkkaL.' This is a classic case of what's one of my pet peeves about how superficially many "serious" film-watching audience access Tamil/Indian films. The near-obsession with a "seamless" narrative devoid of "interruptions." (I'm borrowing the expression from a famous book on Indian Cinema called 'Cinema of Interruptions,' for obvious reasons.) On the surface, it might appear rather reasonable, but it is anything but that. One only has to examine the immediacy with which the 'lapse' is pointed out to realise that the very idea originates from the whole Hollywood project, i.e. wanting to see/make films like the Hollywood. No "unnecessary" songs, comedy or fight sequences, and the film automatically sublimates (so to say).

I don't even mean to argue along the lines of how they could be put to good use in a film; or how good filmmakers have to use the popular mainstream idioms to make the kind of films they want to make and so on. My question is much simpler. Yes, it is there, interrupting the flow of the narrative. What now? What's that "ideal" film that one looks forward to see, that makes one place a criticism of this sort on a film like 'uthirip pUkkaL?'

[Scale]

No its not inconsequential, outlandishly silly! The sibling (whose sister just passed away) and you sing, sing, sing a song as "pee pee pee....kalyaanam paaru appaavoda kalyaanam paaru" to a 3-5 year old neices. Now vijayan is hurried to get married is understandable will you be too. One more perusus songs was there which doesnt annoy me. Quiet prevailing, when you have such occassions. If MM has heroism UP has Mahendran/Raaja's slipover in this song.

Oh, Equa Thats a Classic jump just for the sake of defending anything fret out downright silly! Didnt expect from you.

[Scale]

Why would Jai or app_e remain unsounded ?

[P_R]

What's that "ideal" film that one looks forward to Hollywood is a ketta vaarthai to use to diss but let me dare anyway.

Lipsynching is almost always compromises 'reality' - illaiyA ?
Sure peygaLai nambAdhE did in four minutes what would have taken twenty minutes without it. But I'd've preferred some other workaround.

I am petulantly bothered by these questions. naan sirithaal is just fine for me, but nila adhu vaanathu mElE - is not fine for me. And so on...

[Scale]

Both are fine!

[P_R]

Both are fine!

To quote the famous bodystoda : ennai chonnEn.
Suitably edited my post

[equanimus]

Scale,
But you're not confronting my basic question here. It should be obvious that I'm not defending that song sequence. We're hardly debating whether it is inconsequential or outlandishly silly. I'm likely to forward the song myself (unless I'm feeling lazy enough to pick the remote control). Call it as you wish, that doesn't matter. What makes me curious is being unable to get over it.

One more perusus songs was there which doesnt annoy me. Quiet prevailing, when you have such occassions.
Let's pause here. This comes from the idea that the film has to be "realistic" at any moment; i.e. the prime concern about a scene is simply its plausibility. Look at how your rationale is completely externalized, i.e. the scene works depending on whether you think it's "prevalent" or not. There's no other perspective that you bring in.

If MM has heroism UP has Mahendran/Raaja's slipover in this song.
Again, a completely useless dictum at play: "heroism" is wrong.

[Vivasaayi]

oru doubt!

why shouldn't there be a lip-synching song sequence in a movie - to be natural.the movie can look natural even with a song sequence right?...if people dont realise about lip synching at all..its fine.

If the song can seamlessly mix with the narration and doesnot wake the audience from his dream - sometimes it can elevate the related mood of the audience - let it be! why does cinema has to resemble the real life - it has to make people believe and take them to the dream world....that it is!

do we hear BGM in real life?adhu mattum OKva?

Ultimately,anything that helps the narration is good for cinema.Even if it is a lip-synching song.

Think about kanmani anbodu kadhalan - "ennoda kaadhal ennanu sollama yenga yenga azhuga azhugaya varudhu" outlines Guna's charecter beautifully.why should it be considered to be inappropriate?

[equanimus]

Lipsynching is almost always compromises 'reality' - illaiyA ?
Sure peygaLai nambAdhE did in four minutes what would have taken twenty minutes without it. But I'd've preferred some other workaround.PR, my argument here is that there's some anxiety towards the presence of these items and we need to inquire into it. That doesn't automatically mean I'm arguing for them. There are many things that I also wish had been handled differently in some of my all-time favourite films. That's not the point here.

I am petulantly bothered by these questions.Why?

[Plum]

The supreme irony is that if you are arguing against one inserted song - considering it the defining flaw that negates a movie like udhiri pookkaL - how are you going to argue that the golden age is the 60's where more often than the songs were the better part of the movie.
Anyway, I still do not understand the point of the thread - the title seems tangential to the direction of the discussion intended and executed by the driver of the thread

[Scale]

Its not a matter of 'realistic' or 'unrealistic' events that shown in a movie that song doesn't happen even in the robo world of wi-fi transformation. Both are well made movies but these flaws (which some may not agree & some got along) is not to crucify any more.

[equanimus]

Both the films are well made movies but these flaws (which you may not agree) is not to crucify any more.
Not sure if I understand what you mean here ("crucify any more"?), but my point is simply that these things can hardly be considered as serious (leave alone the biggest!) flaws.

[equanimus]

Its not a matter of 'realistic' or 'unrealistic' events that shown in a movie that song doesn't happen even in the robo world of wi-fi transformation.Scale,
Basically, I'm arguing against people's excessive concern merely about the plausibility of a song sequence in a whole film. And, as for being concerned primarily about the plausibility of a scene/film, I think it's a completely useless exercise. As I've argued above, the rationale of the "plausibles" (as Hitchcock referred to them) is completely externalized. There's no perspective they bring to the table by themselves.

Anyway, I think we've made our points clear. Let's move on.

[P_R]

Lipsynching is almost always compromises 'reality' - illaiyA ?
Sure peygaLai nambAdhE did in four minutes what would have taken twenty minutes without it. But I'd've preferred some other workaround.PR, my argument here is that there's some anxiety towards the presence of these items and we need to inquire into it. That doesn't automatically mean I'm arguing for them. I get that.


There are many things that I also wish had been handled differently in some of my all-time favourite films. That's not the point here. I quoted it as an example of the anxiety which I feel is reasonable.




I am petulantly bothered by these questions.Why?


This comes from the idea that the film has to be "realistic" at any moment; i.e. the prime concern about a scene is simply its plausibility. Object to the use of the word simply. It is a highly valid prime concern, no ?

Much of what I have to say here is not generalizable.

I have problems reading a novel where there are cogent conversations where the level of cogency and elaborateness strikes me as 'unreal'. I know that if such a conversation can't take place even in a novel, it will never take place. But still it troubles me. That is why I use the word petulant.


Look at how your rationale is completely externalized, i.e. the scene works depending on whether you think it's "prevalent" or not. Yes and this is THE most important challenge for any writer IMO. Convincing the reader of the 'reality' that he is creating, that is where the magic is, isn't it ?

[P_R]

There's no perspective they bring to the table by themselves. I am not sure I get this. Their expectation of reality on screen is based on their understanding of reality as they perceive it.

Plus a movie is by its very nature more 'real' than a book. At the risk of sounding too wierd: a book is still black on white about something that is not black on white. You have to conjure about the 'reality' with the help of what you read. With a movie, it is there. You only have to register.There may be some who may disagree, and say this is only 'passive viewing' and you have to engage with it as you would with a book.

But I think this is the reason why we have a stiffer bar for realism in films than in books.

[P_R]

Think about kanmani anbodu kadhalan - "ennoda kaadhal ennanu sollama yenga yenga azhuga azhugaya varudhu" outlines Guna's charecter beautifully.why should it be considered to be inappropriate?
Of course. Now, why did you pick this example out of all the examples you could have. In kaNmaNi there is more inherent "justification" for lip-synching than pEygaLai nambAdhE, isn't it ?

[equanimus]

PR,
I'm not saying that plausibility is immaterial. I hope that's clear. What I am saying is that's not what the film is actually about. Sure, it enables the audience to, in some sense, believe what's unfolding on screen. But merely being thoroughly plausible doesn't make the film a good one. Of course, there's no clear demarcation in this regard. I'm not pretending that there is. My point is simply that critiques that embrace or dismiss a film solely depending on the plausibilities of the scenarios that arise in the film are useless.

And let's not mix the most important challenges for the writer with what's most important for the film. (Just as an aside though, the challenges for a writer or a filmmaker are many. A writer who instinctively gets some things right, thinks the other qualities are more important because he or she's making a conscious effort. Another writer who effortlessly does the latter would think the former ones are the most important challenges.)

[P_R]

Plausibility is a* necessary condition not a sufficient one.


* largely/usually/generally/invariably


And let's not mix the most important challenges for the writer with what's most important for the film. Ah...good point.

[equanimus]

PR,
Sure, but note that the obligation runs both ways! That's why criticising a film like 'uthrip pUkkaL' * on these grounds amounts to mere nitpicking.

* - not because I'm saying it's great, but because the rest of the film is obviously very dissimilar to that song sequence.

[equanimus]

There's no perspective they bring to the table by themselves. I am not sure I get this. Their expectation of reality on screen is based on their understanding of reality as they perceive it.
Of course, PR, like I said, it's about what one thinks is/understands as prevalent, etc. (Ha, that's why I said "no other perspective" the first time!) There's no point turning this into an academic discussion. Look at the belief that lies beneath such criticisms. If I've to put it in your style,

P1: Ha, nobody does that. That scene is illogical. Would all of this happen to one person in one day?
P2: You know what, it has happened. One of my friends had to go through something very similar.
P3: Oh, really... Hmm...

[P_R]

PR,
Sure, but note that the obligation runs both ways! That's why criticising a film like 'uthrip pUkkaL' * on these grounds amounts to mere nitpicking.

* - not because I'm saying it's great, but because the rest of the film is obviously very dissimilar to that song sequence.
Ok adhu nEkku theriyAdhu. As I said, I only have a hazy recollection of the movie - only that it didn't quite blow my socks off.

From the way you were saying it seemed like "there is no dip" rather than "the dip is immaterial and negligible when evaluating the film UP". adhu dhaan konjam theoriticalA pongittEn.


If I've to put it in your style,

P1: Ha, nobody does that. That scene is illogical. Would all of this happen to one person in one day?
P2: You know what, it has happened. One of my friends had to go through something very similar.
P3: Oh, really... Hmm... :lol:

Was the choice of P3 instead of P1 again intentional ?

[P_R]

Oops I used the 'i' word again :lol:

[Plum]

apropos of nothing
poonthamalliyila oru poNNu pinnAlE... :musicsmile:

[equanimus]

No, it wasn't, though I noticed it after posting. In other words, I intentionally left it as it is! (I thought P3 as the now-clueless onlooker also fit in well.)

From the way you were saying it seemed like "there is no dip" rather than "the dip is immaterial and negligible when evaluating the film UP". adhu dhaan konjam theoriticalA pongittEn.I think what I said can be separated into two things. The first is about the nitpicking. By the way, you don't have to recall the film for this. The question is rather simple. Did the criticism say anything we already didn't know or realise (i.e. how outlandish that song is, etc.)? Is there not a forced sense of objectivity in explicitly mentioning it as a big flaw? This, I argue, is an offshoot of the plausibles' school of thought.

But I'm also quite serious about the "plausibles" in a more general sense. Isn't this a very familiar logic applied to many films (good and bad)? The sole exercise in watching the film is to deliberate whether it looks plausible or not. There's something extremely rationalized about watching a film like this. This is what I often refer to as "passive viewing." I think it's so common. I'm not sure if you've sensed this. It's as if the only possible remark one can make about the film is to refer to the parts that looked plausible and the parts that didn't.

[Plum]

equa, after repeated patterns, I guess no other issue works you over more than this particular one. innikku oru nALla evLO post - that too, repeating the same point in almost same words! kood kood, maindain

[equanimus]

Ha ha, that may be true, Plum. I hope Scale didn't mind my interruption (!) and the direction the discussion subsequently took.

Anyway, let's move on. Scale?

[P_R]

By the way, you don't have to recall the film for this. The question is rather simple. Did the criticism say anything we already didn't know or realise (i.e. how outlandish that song is, etc.)? Is there not a forced sense of objectivity in explicitly mentioning it as a big flaw? This, I argue, is an offshoot of the plausibles' school of thought.

Recalling the film, would be useful in talking about this particular example.

Now to the general question of: whether one outlanding song/scene can bring down the film; the honest answer would be: it depends.

Coming to the 'plausibles school of thought' - as I mentioned earlier it is usually necessary but it does not itself make a film good. But it is quite possible that in many cases plausibility is perhaps THE thing going for a film. So when that comes undone, even in passing, it can disappoint the viewer.

Again I am not saying this is the case in UP because....I don't recall the film well :-)

Regarding the last paragraph of your post, that is a bad thing only if plausibility is the only/chief takeaway from a film. That is rarely the case isn't it ? Even my example of "plausibility being the only thing going for a film" is just a கற்பிதம்.

It is just that a plausibility fail affects us so much that we find everything else unenjoyable. And that seems quite fair to me.

[Avadi to America]

apropos of nothing
poonthamalliyila oru poNNu pinnAlE... :musicsmile:

I liked the song.... manroma sang the song....

[Yuvi]

for a while I thought, I am in the English literature section..

[Avadi to America]

"Plagiarism/Remakes/Copywrited remakes/Blessed Remakes (Interesting!) simply doesnt qualify for this discussion"

ithu ellam namma cinema kalacharathula.... thondru thottu kadai pudikira pazakanga.....ithu ellam inga thappey kedyathu..... for me, the most hatred word in english is "Inspiration/inspired"...... this word as most flexible meaning in industry's lexicon......

[equanimus]

Now to the general question of: whether one outlanding song/scene can bring down the film; the honest answer would be: it depends.
Oh, but the extent to which it brings down depends on how crucial that one scene is to that film, isn't it? Otherwise this is a very abstract proposition. (I'm hardly arguing that it's impossible to change the course of a film in 5 minutes.)

Coming to the 'plausibles school of thought' - as I mentioned earlier it is usually necessary but it does not itself make a film good. But it is quite possible that in many cases plausibility is perhaps THE thing going for a film. So when that comes undone, even in passing, it can disappoint the viewer.
PR, I think we're going in circles now. You're using the word 'plausible' to mean a general sense of believability, but I use in a specific context where it takes more primacy, to mean something much more clinical; generally speaking, in the sense Hitchcock coined the term "plausibles."

[P_R]

I am using believable and plausible interchangeably. :oops: What is the difference ?

Suththi-suththi orE vishayathai dhaan sollittu irukkEn, which is : when believability is compromised (even if ever so slightly) the viewing experience can drop tremendously.

[equanimus]

I think we've digressed way too much already. I started out by responding to Scale's post on UP and MM, but then went on to make a much more general point.

Let's continue this all-important discussion elsewhere. :)

[jaiganes]

I am using believable and plausible interchangeably. :oops: What is the difference ?

Suththi-suththi orE vishayathai dhaan sollittu irukkEn, which is : when believability is compromised (even if ever so slightly) the viewing experience can drop tremendously.

I think in the case of Udhirippookkal or Mahanadhi, the 'buy -in' of the 'vision' of the creator is so huge that as a viewer I did not essentially get pissed off and walk off the seat while watching the song 'Appavoda kalyanam paaru'. It is an agreement that the movie's creator and me reached after seeing so much - this song appears in almost the tail end of the movie - kind of setting up the pre-climax scene of the movie.
There are thousand other ways that the message of the song could have been conveyed - like a scene where the sister-in-law goes to the marriage in tow with the kids and creates a scene there - (a route most of the Balu mahendra, barathiraja proteges would have taken) - however that would have come as so jarring and loud and dramatic, that what sundaravadivelu does to her in the pre-climax could have also come out as a 'natural reaction' and less dramatic and less sensational. So a song with the whole marriage parallelly flowing with a 5 minute song is like killing 2 birds in one stone - hence the restrained melodic touche that raaja provides to the song. Agreed that believability that had been so strictly maintained in the film would suffer a little - but that is an acceptable compromise for it adds up to maintain the 'vision of the director' to keep saying the most hard to swallow things in a subtle yet impactful way all the way till the end where the 'cause and effect' of the monster inside Sundaravadivelu is let loose ultimately ending the the 'absolutely heart wrenching' freeze frame of children walking by the river.

[P_R]

Let's continue this all-important discussion elsewhere. :)

சந்த்ரு to ஐஸ் : நீ ஆடு...இது (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=12740&start=90) உன் வீடு.

[app_engine]

Why would Jai or app_e remain unsounded ?

I think I've talked more than enough in this thread already :-)

In any case, I have no great interest in nit-picking the pAsamalars or defending the uthirippookkaLs.

Matter over :-)

[m_23_bayarea]

for a while I thought, I am in the English literature section..

:lol: Not to be rude to some great posts and the folks here, but this post just made me laugh instintively! :oops:

[HonestRaj]

for a while I thought, I am in the English literature section..

:lol: Not to be rude to some great posts and the folks here, but this post just made me laugh instintively! :oops:

thedi pidichu quote pannirukeenga.. .
nanellam appadi appadiye skip pannitten :)

[rajeshkrv]

When people talk about songs.. even today in so called 2000's people have dream songs dancing in streets of Switzerland and most of them are u nwanted dream sequences .. not just 60's had this .. even now .. till the latest movies...So that cant be taken as argument.

I personally feel there is no point in writing something in this thread.. people jump immediately with personal attack or etc ..

[Yuvi]

for a while I thought, I am in the English literature section..

:lol: Not to be rude to some great posts and the folks here, but this post just made me laugh instintively! :oops:

rude ellam illavae illae.... ellaam pazhakka pattadhu thaan.. HR sonnadhu madhiri skip pannitu poyitae irukanum.. but he didnt mention as to which posts he skipped :wink:


Suththi-suththi orE vishayathai dhaan sollittu irukkEn kadaisiyila idhaan moral of the story..

[P_R]

அதுல பாருங்க, பாக்காத படத்தைப் பத்திப் பேசப்போயி பல பக்கம் ஓடிட்ச்சி. இதே நான்கண்டி படம் பாத்திருந்தேன் என்ன ஆயிருக்கும் !

[Yuvi]

அப்படியே பக்கத்துல பாருங்க, release ஆகாத படத்துக்கே இந்த ஓட்டு ஒட்டுராங்கோ .. நீங்க எவ்வளவோ தேவலாம்.

[Sarna]

அதுல பாருங்க, பாக்காத படத்தைப் பத்திப் பேசப்போயி பல பக்கம் ஓடிட்ச்சி. இதே நான்கண்டி படம் பாத்திருந்தேன் என்ன ஆயிருக்கும் !

Thevarmagan "writing" maadhiri oru nalla "writing" kedachchirukkum :) neenga thamizh'la ezhudhum bodhu padikka nallaa irukku :D

[Scale]

Mending back to the greatness of 1960's one of the greatest movie ever made in Tamil film cinema Thillana Mohanambal (1968). Everything is perfect in the film Casting, Dialoqs, Music, Screenplay, Dance, Acting, Comedy. The second movie in the decade gets my rating of 10/10 which I am probing for in any of the following decades. Never seen... Never made (no I am not talking about remakes/lifts)

Sivaji Ganesan as Nadeswara Vidwaan & his ladylove Naatiya Peroli 'Padmini' as Bharathanatyam dancer. AVM Rajan as Sivaji's brother. The Nathaswaram crew and the similar/proponent Dancers crew what a baffling jugalbandhi in classical music/movie making. Nagesh as Vaithy & Manorama as Jil Jil Ramamani, Thangavelu as Padmini's guru, Balaiah as mirudangha vidvaan Nambiar as Maharaaja & Other kutti minors who slobbering after 'Padmini' Absolute delight! Hardly a boring moment. Evergreen!

NEVER!

[Scale]

Watching scenes & songs from streaming videos. Speechless! :notworthy:

[rajeshkrv]

scale you are absolutely right.

nowadays .. people who imitate or make fun of thillana mohanabal or some of the classics of that era are appreciated and that's become a practice.

[joe]

http://ajayanbala.blogspot.com/2009/10/80-to-90.html

[app_engine]

http://ajayanbala.blogspot.com/2009/10/80-to-90.html

:clap:

இவரு நம்ம ஆளு, திரை உலகைப்பற்றி கிட்டத்தட்ட என்னைய மாதிரியே யோசிக்கிறாரு, எழுதி இருக்காரு :-)

ஸ்கேல் வந்து "வெளிக்கருத்து நமக்கெதுக்கு"ன்னு கத்துறதுக்கு முன்னாடி, நடையைக்கட்டுறேன் :-)

[VENKIRAJA]

http://ajayanbala.blogspot.com/2009/10/80-to-90.html

:clap:

இவரு நம்ம ஆளு, திரை உலகைப்பற்றி கிட்டத்தட்ட என்னைய மாதிரியே யோசிக்கிறாரு, எழுதி இருக்காரு :-)

ஸ்கேல் வந்து "வெளிக்கருத்து நமக்கெதுக்கு"ன்னு கத்துறதுக்கு முன்னாடி, நடையைக்கட்டுறேன் :-)

He is a columnist. He wrote the 'Nayagan' series in AV.

[Sanjeevi]

http://ajayanbala.blogspot.com/2009/10/80-to-90.html

:clap:

இவரு நம்ம ஆளு, திரை உலகைப்பற்றி கிட்டத்தட்ட என்னைய மாதிரியே யோசிக்கிறாரு, எழுதி இருக்காரு :-)

ஸ்கேல் வந்து "வெளிக்கருத்து நமக்கெதுக்கு"ன்னு கத்துறதுக்கு முன்னாடி, நடையைக்கட்டுறேன் :-)

AthenE :lol:


But I can't agree Anjali is a flop movie. It is definitely hit movie

[Scale]

app_e

romba nalla purinji vachirikeengha. Thanks! Well I am not looking for a compilation of any decades movies list here the author have safely restricted to that period without analyzing what so differential about that decade. Going by the list of films he brought I can start with RK Selvamani, RV Udayakumar, Sundar C :lol: (SAC is there) & end with Bala. That would be a deadly list from 90's.

Does it prove anything? really not! Is that movie that worth? pathbreaking? perfect movie? all round performance? Timeless!

A very simple approach list your 10 movies from any decade even if you pick in-between it should not go beyond 10 years. Ore discussionla mattera mudichidalaam. illai vothu varadhunna lets end it right here!

Thankyou Joe for the link, get to know more 80's movies. Did I sound rude app_?

[Scale]

If you cant decide/arrive 10 movies from a decade how are you going to say/declare that this particular period/decade is the best.

[groucho070]

அப்படியே பக்கத்துல பாருங்க, release ஆகாத படத்துக்கே இந்த ஓட்டு ஒட்டுராங்கோ .. நீங்க எவ்வளவோ தேவலாம். :lol:

[Vivasaayi]

Ok..comedy movies mattum vechu paapoma?...in this genre

the pre-80' movies that comes to my mind are

sabapathi(gup gup gup gup gupgupgup)
kadhalikka neramillai
adutha veetu pen
kasethan kadavulada

[Scale]

NOV,

If someone have taken VM bashing (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2103980#2103980) for yonks why no action have been taken.

It hardly takes a sec (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2104045#2104045) to regain that control and enter in to civil discussion. Ultimately, its an exchange of thoughts and nevermind for an handshaking proposal not to take anything defamatory & personal.

Please as usual vetti vottidunga. Thanks!

[Vivasaayi]

as u brought this to this thread - just a reply to u


When a person like Venkiram Sir post I simply watch and I am always thoughtful that such wise persons may come up with contrast of my opinion/posts. I really take that in a very high esteem and give a serious thought to it. katrathu kai mannalavu! I dont even dare to counter them sometimes. Such persons are 1000 multi-folds of my knowledge!

And then how many of them have explicated the same.

If you can accuse many music directors of plagiarism - just because you thinks so or it sounds to you - why cant venkiraja talk abt vairamuthu? or retort to venkiram..

"are u a musical genius to talk abt the works of some genius music composers?" - apdinu naanga ennikavadhu ketoma....now u r coming here and questioning about the literary knowledge of venkiraja.


Hope this discussion ends here. I really feel ashamed for a hubber like Venkirajah who doesnt know anything about tamizh literature urainadai, santham, kavidhai or his novels. He cant even differentiate film lyrics and his novels. Did you say all his post 90's works are b*! Now, just get the hell out of here.


so u know everything about music and literature? how are u so sure that venki has not read anything related to literature?u assume everything eh!

[Scale]

Dont start it again. en suya sarithai ellam elutha mudiyaadhu. The answer is in the Ist quote itself. The Mods will set things right a pm/warning would backpack every thing. I am thinking about it seriously!

[jaiganes]

Golden periodnu sonna - jananga tasteayum vechchu sollanum.
I thought the taste of ppl was the best in 70s.
They encouraged good cinema all the way to the bank in this period.
70s saw the emergence and flourishing of KB and the arrival of Bharathiraaja and Mahendran.
offbeat efforts and the influence of malayalam cinema on the stories and style was evident.
80s began well, suffered terribly inbetween to be resuscitated by Mani and Kamal towards the end. 90s was characterized by a one man standing and carrying the entire industry's creative heart - Kamal while mani moved on to bollywood

[Sanjeevi]

I thought the taste of ppl was the best in 70s.


Appo the TN people in 70s had gone to Africa in 80s? or 60s people veruthu TNi vittuttu odi poitAngalA

I think it was because of the medicore & sterotype performance of end 60s and early 70s. Hence people were longing for a new, fresh things to happen.

[jaiganes]

I thought the taste of ppl was the best in 70s.


Appo the TN people in 70s had gone to Africa in 80s? or 60s people veruthu TNi vittuttu odi poitAngalA

I think it was because of the medicore & sterotype performance of end 60s and early 70s. Hence people were longing for a new, fresh things to happen.
sanjeevi - appo irundha depressionlayum, velai vaasilayum, velai illaathindaattathunalayum cinemavai vittu konjam odhungitaangalo ennavo?

[venkkiram]

2001-2010 வரையிலான ஆண்டுகளில் கவர்ந்த பத்து படங்கள் எனப் பட்டியலிட உட்கார்ந்தால் எண்ணிகை முப்பதைத் தாண்டுகிறது...

அழகி
அன்பே சிவம்
ரமணா
12B
டும் டும் டும்
123
மௌனம் பேசியதே
பஞ்ச தந்திரம்
ஆயுத எழுத்து
சொல்ல மறந்த கதை
சாமி
இயற்கை
பிதாமகன்
விருமாண்டி
தவமாய் தவமிருந்து
பட்டியல்
நளதமயந்தி
வசூல் ராஜா M.B.B.S
கஸ்தூரி மான்
சித்திரம் பேசுதடி
இம்சை அரசன் 23ம் புலிகேசி
காதல்
ஈ
திருட்டு பயலே
கண்ட நாள் முதல்
பருத்தி வீரன்
சென்னை 600028
எவனோ ஒருவன்
அஞ்சாதே
ஒன்பது ரூபாய் நோட்டு
நான் கடவுள்
யாவரும் நலம்
ஈரம்
உன்னைப் போல் ஒருவன்
வெண்ணில கபடிக் குழு
விண்ணைத்தாண்டி வருவாயா
அங்காடித் தெரு

[Vivasaayi]

Dont start it again. en suya sarithai ellam elutha mudiyaadhu. The answer is in the Ist quote itself. The Mods will set things right a pm/warning would backpack every thing. I am thinking about it seriously!

:notworthy:

[Scale]

123 ??

[Vivasaayi]

123 ??

45

[Sarna]

I thought the taste of ppl was the best in 70s
:lol:

[Sanjeevi]

venkkiram

Veyil out
123 In

EKSI

[Scale]

123 ??

45

enna padamnu ketten.

Got it, PD brothers.

[P_R]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)

[Scale]

athu mattum thaan unga kannukku therinjudha :roll:

entho(u) parithaabam!

[P_R]

athu mattum thaan unga kannukku therinjudha :roll:
That's what I'd call a 'copy'

123, evanO oruvan, Vasool raja,UPO,Kasthuri maan are remakes.

tuvall B uses the same concept of the Gwenyth Paltrow movie - that kind of thing does not bother me

[P_R]

btw about Sennai-28, one of the best films in the decade, it is rumored that Venkat Prabhu flicked the script from an asstend director. So should we remove that from our consideration. (i.e. is previous publication of material the only problem, or is it important only to the extent that it is proof of stealing).

[Scale]

Good for the makers! Given a period of 2-3yrs film developing <making> pre & post production of cuttingm, vetting with so many creative heads & advanced technology involved I could clearly see those DVD covers. If this is what kalai vingnani's viewpoint then I pity the ordinary viewers. There are more thanthirams in the making and I don't see any sign/necessity to credit the originals. Because the makers knew better than the viewers where the clues have been clamped/altered.

I salute all those Original makers of pre & post eras (now its your job to find out) who shed their sweat and tears to make orginal and good films. 1-2 padamna paravaillai some are living with it.

This is my final post on this topic and lets depart on our own ways.

:wave:

[Plum]

habbada - as predicted, the theerpu has come on the lines I predicted (Note the pre and post keywords as predicted)

:-)
Plum - nee oru mananilai aaraichi vignAni dA!

[Scale]

That can be 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's & even 2009. 100% urudhiyayiduchi!

[Plum]

last postnyu sonnApla?

Aahn 3055 or 10085 AD-yA kooda irukkalAm. adhu sari, kalai vignAni-nu Vaiyapuriya dhAnE solrInga?

[Scale]

Well I said to the topic not to the post! :lol2:

[P_R]

Good for the makers! Given a period of 2-3yrs film developing <making> pre & post production of cuttingm, vetting with so many creative heads & advanced technology involved I could clearly see those DVD covers. If this is what kalai vingnani's viewpoint then I pity the ordinary viewers. There are more thanthirams in the making and I don't see any sign/necessity to credit the originals. Because the makers knew better than the viewers where the clues have been clamped/altered.

I salute all those Original makers of pre & post eras (now its your job to find out) who shed their sweat and tears to make orginal and good films. 1-2 padamna paravaillai some are living with it.

This is my final post on this topic and lets depart on our own ways.

:wave:
ippo enna nadandhuruchu-nu ippidi oru mudivu eduthitteenga.
I was just trying to needle you to post what you said you would post later about the 90s. Atleast 2000 paththiyaavadhu solluveenga-nu kEttEn.

Anyway I can understand people being incensed about plagiarism. Should the viewer be bothered is a question. I understand your answer is:yes. If so, where does one stop. I threw out the example of the Chennai-28 rumour to know where one can draw the line.

[venkkiram]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)

ஏங்க, பட்டியலுக்கு என்னங்க குறைச்சல்? விஷ்ணுவர்த்தனின் ஆக்கம் நிறைய இடங்களில் நன்றாகவே இருந்ததாக எனக்குத் தோன்றியது. குறிப்பாக பத்மபிரியா, ஆர்யா, பரத் இவர்களின் பிணைப்பை நன்றாகவே வெளிப்படுத்தியிருந்தார். அப்புறம் ஹனிபாவும் திறம்பட நடித்திருந்தார்.

[jaiganes]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)

ஏங்க, பட்டியலுக்கு என்னங்க குறைச்சல்? விஷ்ணுவர்த்தனின் ஆக்கம் நிறைய இடங்களில் நன்றாகவே இருந்ததாக எனக்குத் தோன்றியது. குறிப்பாக பத்மபிரியா, ஆர்யா, பரத் இவர்களின் பிணைப்பை நன்றாகவே வெளிப்படுத்தியிருந்தார். அப்புறம் ஹனிபாவும் திறம்பட நடித்திருந்தார்.
pattiyal is an appatta copy of bangkok dangerous - u have to go to scale's blog to know why he feels so strongly abt that.
I agree with him on this stand.

[venkkiram]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)

ஏங்க, பட்டியலுக்கு என்னங்க குறைச்சல்? விஷ்ணுவர்த்தனின் ஆக்கம் நிறைய இடங்களில் நன்றாகவே இருந்ததாக எனக்குத் தோன்றியது. குறிப்பாக பத்மபிரியா, ஆர்யா, பரத் இவர்களின் பிணைப்பை நன்றாகவே வெளிப்படுத்தியிருந்தார். அப்புறம் ஹனிபாவும் திறம்பட நடித்திருந்தார்.
pattiyal is an appatta copy of bangkok dangerous - u have to go to scale's blog to know why he feels so strongly abt that.
I agree with him on this stand.

இப்படி எல்லாவற்றிற்கும் நதிமூலம், ரிஷிமூலம் பார்த்துக்கொண்டிருந்தால் கலையை மனப்பூர்வமா ரசிக்க முடியாதுன்னு நினைக்கிறேன்.

[jaiganes]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)

ஏங்க, பட்டியலுக்கு என்னங்க குறைச்சல்? விஷ்ணுவர்த்தனின் ஆக்கம் நிறைய இடங்களில் நன்றாகவே இருந்ததாக எனக்குத் தோன்றியது. குறிப்பாக பத்மபிரியா, ஆர்யா, பரத் இவர்களின் பிணைப்பை நன்றாகவே வெளிப்படுத்தியிருந்தார். அப்புறம் ஹனிபாவும் திறம்பட நடித்திருந்தார்.
pattiyal is an appatta copy of bangkok dangerous - u have to go to scale's blog to know why he feels so strongly abt that.
I agree with him on this stand.

இப்படி எல்லாவற்றிற்கும் நதிமூலம், ரிஷிமூலம் பார்த்துக்கொண்டிருந்தால் கலையை மனப்பூர்வமா ரசிக்க முடியாதுன்னு நினைக்கிறேன்.

kizhinjudhu krishnagiri...

[HonestRaj]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)

ஏங்க, பட்டியலுக்கு என்னங்க குறைச்சல்? விஷ்ணுவர்த்தனின் ஆக்கம் நிறைய இடங்களில் நன்றாகவே இருந்ததாக எனக்குத் தோன்றியது. குறிப்பாக பத்மபிரியா, ஆர்யா, பரத் இவர்களின் பிணைப்பை நன்றாகவே வெளிப்படுத்தியிருந்தார். அப்புறம் ஹனிபாவும் திறம்பட நடித்திருந்தார்.
pattiyal is an appatta copy of bangkok dangerous - u have to go to scale's blog to know why he feels so strongly abt that.
I agree with him on this stand.

இப்படி எல்லாவற்றிற்கும் நதிமூலம், ரிஷிமூலம் பார்த்துக்கொண்டிருந்தால் கலையை மனப்பூர்வமா ரசிக்க முடியாதுன்னு நினைக்கிறேன்.

oru silarai nam sirandha kalaignargal enru sollumbodhu avargalidathil irundha originality'um oru kaaranam... inspiration illamal yarum irukka mudiyadhu.. adhukkaga attai copy adippavargalai ellam ookkuvikka koodadhu

Thirukkural'ai english'la translate panna. .ennakku 133 adikku oru silai veppeengala? :P

[P_R]

Scale, note Pattiyal :-)ஏங்க, பட்டியலுக்கு என்னங்க குறைச்சல்? ஒரு குறைச்சலும் இல்லை. நானும் Nerd-உம் மையம் பட்டியல் ரசிகர் மன்ற founding members. நியாயப்படி நீங்க கட்டணம் செலுத்தி, உறுப்பினர் அட்டை வாங்கினப்புறம் தான் பட்டியலை பட்டியல்லை சேர்த்துருக்கணும். இருந்தாலும் பரவாயில்லை. Scale is of the opinion that viewers should be deeply concerned about originality when evaluating a work. While I understand that as far as evaluating an 'artist' I don't find it hugely important in evaluating a piece of work. And by Pattiyal is apparently a frame-by-frame lift from Bangkok Dangerous. On the other hand the other films I mentioned are not such 'clean lifts' - just wanted to make that distinction clear.

[P_R]

Thirukkural'ai english'la translate panna. .ennakku 133 adikku oru silai veppeengala? :P
ஆசையப்பாரு.. :lol2:

சிலையெல்லாம் வைக்க மாட்டோம். ஆனா அந்த வருஷம் வந்த சிறந்த ஆங்கிலப்புத்தகங்கள்-ல அதையும் பரிசீலனைக்கு எடுத்துக்குவோம்.

[Scale]

Thanks Jai!

HR, that's a huge, unquestionable non-counterfeited job man. A Clear definition of 'Better than original' conception (http://twitter.com/scalerevolves).

[Scale]

Enough discussed, Lets move on.


Rotating the raatinam again, Originality is a factor (primary tho) I am looking for a list of 10 movies from other decades where you can call it as a perfect film, original, all-round performance & timeless classic.

[MADDY]

wat is a original film??? ellame oru inspiration dhaane.....there are so many adapatations that are far better than vorginal movies - sivakasi is original movie - adhukkaga :roll: .......infact, since watching VB's movies, i feel "he who can adapt well with creativity is the best" :lol2:

odane pattiyal pudikkuma-nnu ketpaanga - i didnt like pattiyal bcos there was nothing that director added to the movie from BangkokDangerous - heroine from medical shop-ngra idea kooda copy adiappangala :oops: .......

[P_R]

I watched indhi gentleman this morning. Torture.

When Saranraj beats Paresh Rawal - one understands that remaking is one tough job.

In Tamil

pazhaNI
cut
series of shots of breathtaking crowd
"azhu puLLai...appothEn unga aathA varum" announcer
Saranraj "no tension" dialogue...frenzied sabatham...mike announcement to "arOgarA" :clap:

[MADDY]

I watched indhi gentleman this morning. Torture.

When Saranraj beats Paresh Rawal - one understands that remaking is one tough job.

In Tamil

pazhaNI
cut
series of shots of breathtaking crowd
"azhu puLLai...appothEn unga aathA varum" announcer
Saranraj "no tension" dialogue...frenzied sabatham...mike announcement to "arOgarA" :clap:

exactly - neenga sangar padathukku kai thaatreenganna paathukonga :P .......i mean, yes, its tuf to remake even a gentleman...........imagine recreating othellos and macbeths - sabba :bow:

[P_R]

sangar padathukku kai thaatreenganna paathukonga :P allOv I yam big gentleman defender yA. inga ellArum Indian-mudhalvan paththi mattumE adhigamA pEsuraanga. Gentleman is a script that will hold its own very well.

[MADDY]

sangar padathukku kai thaatreenganna paathukonga :P allOv I yam big gentleman defender yA. inga ellArum Indian-mudhalvan paththi mattumE adhigamA pEsuraanga. Gentleman is a script that will hold its own very well.

which reminds me - we dont have a thread for Shankar :lol2:

[raghavendran]

sangar padathukku kai thaatreenganna paathukonga :P allOv I yam big gentleman defender yA. inga ellArum Indian-mudhalvan paththi mattumE adhigamA pEsuraanga. Gentleman is a script that will hold its own very well.

which reminds me - we dont have a thread for Shankar :lol2:
inge manikku mattumdhan thrd irukkunnu nenaikkiren

[jaiganes]

sangar padathukku kai thaatreenganna paathukonga :P allOv I yam big gentleman defender yA. inga ellArum Indian-mudhalvan paththi mattumE adhigamA pEsuraanga. Gentleman is a script that will hold its own very well.

which reminds me - we dont have a thread for Shankar :lol2:
inge manikku mattumdhan thrd irukkunnu nenaikkiren
Balakkum irukku.
Getting back to sangar - He does many things right and deliberately does many things wrong and does many 'wrong' things right - but all with careful thought - so he is definitely a director who can in near future deliver a very perfect movie that we all can be very proud of. Just waiting for the time to applaud him fully when that happens. Till that time I will take slices here and there to appreciate . Will I include his movies in decades best list - not yet. Is he a trend setter - Yes - Is he an avan garde film maker - No - hence excluded.

LEt me take the initiative to explain why 70s was so good...
70s was a time of change - when the modernism was replacing 'classical' of film making. When we started moving from 'High context' acting and film making to 'Low context' acting and film making. When dialogues started getting smaller - yet sharper. 'Saattayadi - surukk' vasanams with freeze frame directorial touches were beginning to replace lengthy song sequences to convey same meanings. Minimalism was getting accepted gladly by everyone and producers and directors were hunting for stories in novels and short stories instead of 'story departments' of studios plucking films out of mythologies and 'Shankaradas dramas' (not that it is bad - just was getting too much of a good thing).
Villains were getting suave and 'multi shaded' and heroes were getting dirtier and multi layered. Stories with prostitutes and show girls getting accepted as 'kudumba kuthu velakkus' by hard hearted maamiyaars and maamanaars were getting made and accepted by public. Art films were also getting made for the first time in Thamizh movie making context and that was something only 'S.Balachander' had been known to make in the 60s.

70s would be remembered - if not for anything else - Jayakanthan's forays into films.
Movies like 'sila nerangaLil sila manidhargaL' and 'Oru nadigai naadagam paarkiraal' are unimaginable even in 90s and 2000s - but got made in 70s. KB and Bharathiraaja changed the taste of film audiences in 70s and Mahendran added to the merry - the way 70s ended, Thamizh cinema was poised to challenge Bengal and Kerala in the artistic war over films - all this inspite of not having an Adoor or Ray - Quite an achievment for a film world with lot of commercial constraints. The middle path of films was achieved and achieved without much fuss - just to be spoiled in mid 80s.

[app_engine]

jaiganesh,
:clap:

You've given a nice demo as to how a period should be analyzed!

Also a demo as to how NOT :-)

[rajeshkrv]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

[venkkiram]

because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..
சரியா சொன்னீங்க!

[jaiganes]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

@rajeshkrv
I have taken anticipatory bail for Andha naal and other S.Balachander movies in my post.
70s generally is a phase where the art movement entered with vigour in thamizh film world.
As far as your fear of bashing is concerned, I can give minimum guarantee from my part that I wont bash u or brand u as ....
IF u are a sport we can chill out.

[Avadi to America]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

rajesh,

it is not about the incidet (murder) who killed whom.... it is about the charecterisation of women in society.... if you deeply look the charecterization of pandaribai in andha naal, you would understand what i mean.... on the other hand, sujatha's character in aval oru thodarkathai and avargal, saritha's charecter in thappu thalangal, sridevi's charecter in moondru mudichu, sripriya's charecter in aval appadithan showed women are not week also they are strong enough to rise their voice against the family, society.....this is one among the few notable things that lacked in pre 70s era.

[jaiganes]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

rajesh,

it is not about the incidet (murder) who killed whom.... it is about the charecterisation of women in society.... if you deeply look the charecterization of pandaribai in andha naal, you would understand what i mean.... on the other hand, sujatha's character in aval oru thodarkathai and avargal, saritha's charecter in thappu thalangal, sridevi's charecter in moondru mudichu, sripriya's charecter in aval appadithan showed women are not week also they are strong enough to rise their voice against the family, society.....this is one among the few notable things that lacked in pre 70s era.

Absolutely I Agreee A2A!!!

[rajeshkrv]

A2A, all movies which you mentioned are by KB and kB started long back before 70's .. he portrayed women more strong starting from Jayanthi's character in ethir neechal when she blasts everyone ..It's nothing new in 70's

yes 70's people mentality changed .. they were little open to accept dialouges concering sex or any non acceptable topic and that brought in more such kind of films ..

in 60's KSG,Sreedhar and many others just didnt bring story or fantasy .. they all portrayed different kind of humans , different kind of subject... eg different kind of a sister in Kalyana parisu, innocent girl who at the same time is bold in kai kodutha deivam etc

i'm not against 70's though..

[Avadi to America]

A2A, all movies which you mentioned are by KB and kB started long back before 70's .. he portrayed women more strong starting from Jayanthi's character in ethir neechal when she blasts everyone ..It's nothing new in 70's

yes 70's people mentality changed .. they were little open to accept dialouges concering sex or any non acceptable topic and that brought in more such kind of films ..

in 60's KSG,Sreedhar and many others just didnt bring story or fantasy .. they all portrayed different kind of humans , different kind of subject... eg different kind of a sister in Kalyana parisu, innocent girl who at the same time is bold in kai kodutha deivam etc

i'm not against 70's though..

Not all Movies are directed by KB. aval apadithan movie directed by Rudriya....

transition might be started in late 60's.... But it went full flow only in 70's..... from the list of movies directed by KB in 60s and 70s, Why KB could/did not make movies in 60's like 70's. is it because cultula and social changes which gave him more confident to make movies with social message?.

1. Iru Kodagal (1969)
2. Poova Thalaya (1969)
3. Sattekalapu Satteya (1969)
4. Ethir Neechal (1968)
5. Thamarai Nenjam (1968)
6. Anubavi Raja Anubavi (1967)
7. Bama Vijam (1967)
8. Major Chandrakant (1966)
9. Naanal (1965)
10. Neer Kumizhi



13. Idi Kathakaadu (1979)
14. Andamaina Anubhavam (1979)
15. Edo Saritha (1979)
16. Guppedu Manasu (1979)
17. Ninaithale Inikkum (1979)
18. Nool Veli (1979)
19. Maro Charithra (1978)
20. Nizhal Nijamakirathu (1978)
21. Thappitha Thala (1978)
22. Aaina (1977/I)
23. Avargal (1977)
24. Meethi Meethi Baatein (1977)
25. Oka Thalli Katha (1977)
26. Pattina Pravesam (1977)
27. Anthuleni Katha (1976)
28. Manmatha Leelai (1976)
29. Moondru Mudichu (1976)
30. Apoorva Raagangal (1975)
31. Koti Vidyalu Kuti Korake (1974)
32. Naan Avanillai (1974)
33. Arrangetram (1973)
34. Lokram Maraali (1973)
35. Sollathan Ninaikiren (1973)
36. Kanna Nalama (1972)
37. Velli Vizha (1972)
38. Bomma Borusa (1971)
39. Nangu Suvargal (1971)
40. Nootrukku Noor (1971)
41. Punnagai (1971)
42. Ethiroli (1970)
43. Kaviyath Thalaivi (1970)
44. Navagraham (1970)
45. Patham Pasali (1970)

the above highlighted movies in which women were shown strong and capable enough to handle and head the family....i think this one lacks in 60s era.... I included arangatram for different reason...though the story deals with controversial subject...

[tamizharasan]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

@rajeshkrv
I have taken anticipatory bail for Andha naal and other S.Balachander movies in my post.
70s generally is a phase where the art movement entered with vigour in thamizh film world.
As far as your fear of bashing is concerned, I can give minimum guarantee from my part that I wont bash u or brand u as ....
IF u are a sport we can chill out.

Jaiganes
Is it your review on andha naal.

http://passionforcinema.com/andha-naal-thamizh-1954/

[Sanjeevi]

tamizharasan, anthaluthan avaru ivaruthan avaru

[tamizharasan]

tamizharasan, anthaluthan avaru ivaruthan avaru

ok thanks.

[tamizharasan]

BTW does anyone know where can I find the movie andha naal. I saw this movie when I was young and I hardly remember anything about it. I would like to revisit this movie.

[jaiganes]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

@rajeshkrv
I have taken anticipatory bail for Andha naal and other S.Balachander movies in my post.
70s generally is a phase where the art movement entered with vigour in thamizh film world.
As far as your fear of bashing is concerned, I can give minimum guarantee from my part that I wont bash u or brand u as ....
IF u are a sport we can chill out.

Jaiganes
Is it your review on andha naal.

http://passionforcinema.com/andha-naal-thamizh-1954/

Yes .

[tamizharasan]

jaiganes though your explanation is very detail .. long before that movies like andha naal was accepted were wife kills husband which was considered evil at that period .. husband was supposed to be god.. above all of it this was accepted and appreciated...

jayakanthan was an exception because he was actively involved in the movies which were his novels.. We know all other novelists cried that their novel/story has been torn apart when it was made as movie..

anyways i'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because this seems to be one sided and whoever speaks against 70's are branded as ..

@rajeshkrv
I have taken anticipatory bail for Andha naal and other S.Balachander movies in my post.
70s generally is a phase where the art movement entered with vigour in thamizh film world.
As far as your fear of bashing is concerned, I can give minimum guarantee from my part that I wont bash u or brand u as ....
IF u are a sport we can chill out.

Jaiganes
Is it your review on andha naal.

http://passionforcinema.com/andha-naal-thamizh-1954/

Yes .

Good one. I also liked your reply for a question related to Sivaji as Kamal's idol. very well said. Where can I find this movie?

[joe]

I also liked your reply for a question related to Sivaji as Kamal's idol. very well said.
:yes: