Respect the elders - What does it really mean?

[PatchyBoy]

We have all heard " வயசுக்கு மரியாதை" some time in our life. So, what exactly does this mean? Traditionally, with age comes experience and with experience comes wisdom. So, it is understood that one is respecting the wisdom and not the age. Afterall, one being old is hardly any achievement.

Many times you might have given up your seat in the bus for an elderly person. I would like to believe that it is an acknowledgement of the infirmity that age brings and nothing more.

With the advent of the internet, the phenomenal advancement of science & technology, the general advances in availability of knowledge, I believe that the younger generation is far wiser than the older generation, in spite of being, well, younger.

Who would you respect - an old man, lets say in his seventies or eighties, who likes to argue that whatever he says is absolutely correct, because of his age - as against another, maybe half his age, presenting his side with well documented theories?

So where does the வயசுக்கு மரியாதை concept go now? Or am I misunderstanding the whole concept?

Rajan

[pavalamani pragasam]

A very pertinent, meaningful question! Being on the opposite side of the court I feel compelled to face the ball! To me it pertains not merely to 'wisdom' or infirmity! The definition of wisdom can be very flexible! While some 'oldies' do put pressure on their children to 'obey', generally parents are no more autocrats. Within a generation the world has whirled at a faster speed than ever before. While the elders are gasping to understand what exactly is happening around them the youngsters, fortunately, are smart enough to cope with the sweeping strong current, are 'wise' to get adept in the art of survival in the rat race! It is quite true that most of the practical tips the parents can give today are irrelevant or useless in the present circumstances. But there are some basic values in life which the younsters cannot ignore, values which the elders have found to make human life respectable, meaningful and enjoyable. Deeper than the transition of lifestyles from santhais to modern malls, bullock carts to cars and planes, from simple entertainment ideas to resort concepts for relaxation the inner craving for warm relationship/bonding has not changed. Blessed are families which can 'understand'(not necessarily agree) and respect the dreams/compulsions/choices BOTH sides are left with!

Finally, it is simple plain good manners!!! :lol:

[gaddeswarup]

[tscii:7a651eb3ac]There are some very relevant words by Benjamin Franklin’s at the Constitutional Convention onSeptember 17, 1787 at the age of 81:“ … for having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought were right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow the more apt I am to doubt my own judgement, and to pay more respect to the judgement ofothers. ..."
If old men are like that there should not me much problem. But I have seen a few who seem to think that since they have survived so long and have been reasonably successful, they know what is right and what works. And young people seem to be reluctant to hurt their feelings. I wonder whether it is more in India than in countries like USA. On some issues, one can consider their advice ( Recently I heard from an old friend that he had Chikungunya and sufferedfrom joint pains and finally on the advice of a friend took some Ayurvedic medicine and the pains vanished with in a week. A friend's mother in Melbourne had the same problem and we got the medicine from Hyderabad and it worked). Probably one has to consider carefully what to take seriously.[/tscii:7a651eb3ac]

[Punnaimaran]

First of all, we have to understand the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Awareness of something is what we call knowledge. Nowadays we have so many sources to gain knowledge. For example, if you want to know about anything in this universe, all you have to do is sit before a computer and type the words into a search engine and voila the answers are there.

But wisdom is gained through the experiences, when the acquired knowledge put into everyday use. I may be knowledgeable enough to give a lecture on how to make others feel happy, but not wise enough to keep my wife and children happy.

So I think we respect one's wisdom and not just their knowledge. And I'm not wise enough to judge whether the elder or the younger generation is wise.

எப்பொருள் யார் யார் வாய்க் கேட்பினும் .... is my policy.


But, as PP ma'am says it is good manners to respect elders.

[app_engine]

Excellent thoughts, Punnaimaran :-)

There's just one more perspective as to why respect the elders - simply out of sheer gratitude.

The other day, my wife had a phone-call quarrel with her mom and my m-i-l was obviously incorrect -she was talking without facts - and it went on for a while, even got rough.

However, after the call was over, I asked my wife to cool down a bit and asked her a few questions like - why doesn't she consider the days her mom carried her to the doc, nights she kept awake etc, much like we do for our children :-)

It worked and she agreed to "accept her mother's craziness" :-)

I don't think respect is shown by "simply agreeing to all that an old one says" but in many other beneficial ways. Politeness is obviously one, taking care of needs is another. Difference of opinions do not take away respect, IMO :-)

[PatchyBoy]

Good thoughts. I have no contest with being good mannered and considerate to older people.

My question is, what if you did not even know this person? What other factors would affect your decision apart from age? I can fully understand what app_engine says here. Even my sister used to say the same about my mother. She always said "I realized what it means to be a mother, when I gave birth to my first child. From that day on, doesn't matter if mother is right or wrong, I am on her side"

But the concept of வயசுக்கு மரியாதை seems to take different meanings when it comes to older people, who are also strangers. It is very common to hear people say " ஒய் பெருசு, பார்த்து போ. வீட்டுல சொல்லிட்டு வந்தியா?" when some old person is trying to cross the road and gets too close for one's comfort. Would one say the same thing if that person was known? Or if that person appeared to be well educated and well dressed? More often than not, such utterances are aimed at old people who appear to be at a socially lower level.

Does this mean வயசுக்கு மரியாதை actually means a lot more than just வயசு? Will you refuse to engage a coolie in the railway station, because he is old? After all, he is old, so deserves respect. We wouldn't allow one of our older relatives to carry our luggage, would we?

Rajan

[PARAMASHIVAN]

[tscii:2d8f0c6536]Every one should be respected, regardless of age, gender, race etc etc ... including animals.
Knowledge is some thing which is grasped through your five senses, such sight, hearing, taste and touch.
When ‘All’ of these five senses are 'not' functioning, you are either dead, in sleep or in a coma.
Wisdom is a combination of experience and knowledge.
Mind is a Combination of memory + imagination.
Every one is unique, every one have different skills, understanding level, wisdom level... these are all based on the knowledge attained through your five senses, your experience. These all depend on the environment you have been bought up in.
Age plays a factor, as you would have had more time to understand experiment and experience certain attributes of life.
However wisdom does not come with age, but like I mentioned you have more time as you age to attain wisdom...
A 30 year old man has more wisdom than a 60 year old, if you look; take 'Thirugnyanasambanthar' and 'Thirunavukarasar'....
The younger had more wisdom than the elder. Which promotes wisdom and age has nothing to do with each others.
[/tscii:2d8f0c6536]

[app_engine]

Good questions, Rajan, reflecting the sad state of lack of consideration for others who are physically not in the shape they once were!

My comment about gratitude to elderly is not just limited to our parents / grand parents but to all as they have contributed to the things we enjoy today in one way or another (trees, roads, researches that accumulated knowledge etc are simple examples). So most of those who have positively contributed to the society deserve our gratitude.

(Ofcourse criminals & such negative characters don't deserve such respect simply because they have grey hair).

[thamiz]

Who would you respect - an old man, lets say in his seventies or eighties, who likes to argue that whatever he says is absolutely correct, because of his age - as against another, maybe half his age, presenting his side with well documented theories?

So where does the வயசுக்கு மரியாதை concept go now? Or am I misunderstanding the whole concept?

Rajan

Well, who might RESPECT?

I am sure, the people who were brought up by the "old man" and people those who had been loved and cared by the old man will respect!

When they get older and older most of them becoming a "childlike"!

Do you respect the feelings of a "child" or NOT? :roll:

If you do, WHY?

[PatchyBoy]

Well, who might RESPECT?

I am sure, the people who were brought up by the "old man" and people those who had been loved and cared by the old man will respect!

When they get older and older most of them becoming a "childlike"!

Do you respect the feelings of a "child" or NOT? :roll:

If you do, WHY?

தமிழ் - agreed to your point of view. :D

Rajan

[pavalamani pragasam]

Yes, thamiz has presented the point beautifully. The same understanding/affection/tolerance/indulgence is required to be shown towards old people and children.
The counterpart of old porter in railway station is old servantmaid doing hard menial work in many a household. (To this day I've not engaged a maid, young or old!). The wretchedness of poverty is more heartrending to see in old people than the young.

[Badri]

(To this day I've not engaged a maid, young or old!). The wretchedness of poverty is more heartrending to see in old people than the young.

and so rather than doing something to alleviate their poverty by actually engaging them to do some work and thus creating an income source for them, you would rather condemn them to their fate?

The old person that seeks employment is probably doing so because there is no one else to look after them. While it may be heartrending, think of the alternative. They are not begging for your charity, so the only option then is to engage them as a maid! Is it not callous to do nothing about it?

[pavalamani pragasam]

We are digressing!? Basically human beings are selfish: I want to spare myself the pain of seeing an old woman suffering under my nose!!! :noteeth: A sort of policy that I'm not aggravating their plight. I donate liberally to homes which shelter old people which give them painless jobs like making santhana malai etc keeping their ego and time well satisfied!

[suba]

:)

yaara iruntha ennanga... mariyaathai kodukka vendiyathu namma kadamai.

enna kettu pochu...????

of course, athai kaapaathikarathum keduthukarathum receiver's choice.

:)

[Punnaimaran]

:)

yaara iruntha ennanga... mariyaathai kodukka vendiyathu namma kadamai.

enna kettu pochu...????

of course, athai kaapaathikarathum keduthukarathum receiver's choice.

:) :thumbsup:

[Sudhaama]

.


Respect the elders - What does it really mean?


To-days ELDERS are the BEST GUIDES.....for TODAYS BUDS...


... for gaining the TRUE RICHNESS of PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE on Life..


...from the FORE-RUNNER Elders' Experience



Because the Todays Elders.. were the Yesterdays' Buds...



...who BURNT THEIR FINGERS... AND LEARNT LIFE.!




So LARGE-HEARTEDLY... the Elders wish... None else in Future should unduly suffer like them...

...due to LACK OF PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE... on Life.

The Famous Chinese Proverb:


Life-Experience is the GOLDEN COMB... presented by God...

...to the BALD-HEADED Man.!


.
.
.

[thamiz]

.

The Famous Chinese Proverb:


Life-Experience is the GOLDEN COMB... presented by God...

...to the BALD-HEADED Man.!


.
.
.

What about men who are old but not bald? :D

[rajraj]

.

The Famous Chinese Proverb:


Life-Experience is the GOLDEN COMB... presented by God...

...to the BALD-HEADED Man.!


.
.
.

What about men who are old but not bald? :D

They should to to Pazhani , get rid of their hair and become wise ! :lol:

[thamiz]

.

The Famous Chinese Proverb:


Life-Experience is the GOLDEN COMB... presented by God...

...to the BALD-HEADED Man.!


.
.
.

What about men who are old but not bald? :D

They should to to Pazhani , get rid of their hair and become wise ! :lol:

:rotfl:

[app_engine]

They should to to Pazhani , get rid of their hair and become wise ! :lol:

:lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

So one must lose one's hair to gain wisdom? :?: Since women never get completely bald does it mean they never become completely wise? :roll: Or should they also go to Pazani or Thiruppathi?

//Sudhamma must be searching for a cane to beat us! :yessir: //

[rajraj]

So one must lose one's hair to gain wisdom? :?: Since women never get completely bald does it mean they never become completely wise? :roll: Or should they also go to Pazani or Thiruppathi?

//Sudhamma must be searching for a cane to beat us! :yessir: //

pp: Now, they are talking about one third reservation for women in parliament. I think women should ask for such a reservation in wisdom category ! :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

One third is not my choice; one half is my logical, legitimate demand! 8-)

[rajraj]

One third is not my choice; one half is my logical, legitimate demand! 8-)

Let us start with one third and increase it to half ! Male chauvinists won't go for half to start with ! :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

They are going to end up ultimately in surrendering their whole share to a matriarchal society! History repeats itself! :D

[Sudhaama]

.


Please NOTE the word.. Bald-headed..

...MAN.!..?


It means the LEADERSHIP of Bald-headed... MAN for ALL...

... the Young MEN... plus ALL WOMEN... YOUNG AND OLD... Too.!


.

[suba]

:)

no one can claim for respect. it would come as one deserves it and i feel that the respect we receive is the best scale to shape ourselves.

:)

[Punnaimaran]

Good questions, Rajan, reflecting the sad state of lack of consideration for others who are physically not in the shape they once were!

My comment about gratitude to elderly is not just limited to our parents / grand parents but to all as they have contributed to the things we enjoy today in one way or another (trees, roads, researches that accumulated knowledge etc are simple examples). So most of those who have positively contributed to the society deserve our gratitude.
(Ofcourse criminals & such negative characters don't deserve such respect simply because they have grey hair).

app_eng,
Very true. But nowadays the word gratitude seems to be taken out of the dictionary.

Rajan.
The comments, as 'பெருசு வீட்டுல சொல்லிட்டு வந்துட்டியா', can be heard only in Chennai in my experience and our Tamil films have played a big role in promoting such dialogues as a part of their "comedy". But I personally believe that the parents' attitude / behaviour towards fellow human being also plays a bigger role in the behaviour of their children.

[PatchyBoy]

...and our Tamil films have played a big role in promoting such dialogues as a part of their "comedy".

Couldn't agree more with you on that. Films have always been a major influence on the society. Sad to see the way the mass medium getting mis-used grossly.

As for reservation for women, I am totally against it. Why reservation? Aren't we all born equal? Why can't women get out there and change the perspective? Why do they need reservations to be able to do anything?

I vividly remember my college days - a bus starts from Presidency college - then the only co-ed college in Chennai. All the girls used to occupy general seats forcing the boys to occupy seats reserved for women. By the time the bus crossed Queen Mary's and Ethiraj, all men were standing and all seats were occupied by girls.

Even though it was a teenage prank played by the girls, I believe that it does paint a picture of what happens in a reservation. We all experience firsthand what is happening in the government sectors where reservation is enforced.

Anyone who was looking for a job in the mid 70s to the mid 90s, would for sure have faced the obstacle of reservations - not only for getting a job, but for even getting a promotion.

Treat every one as equals. Women are as much capable of doing anything that a man can do. We have classic examples in Indira Gandhi, P.T. Usha, Kiran Bedi to name a few. They have all been pioneers in their chosen fields, and I am sure there were no reservations.

Rajan

[thamiz]

Rajan.
The comments, as 'பெருசு வீட்டுல சொல்லிட்டு வந்துட்டியா', can be heard only in Chennai in my experience .

Such a comment irritates me as much as when an old man demands respect just for his age and not for what he really is!

Are we not having old people with a "spectrum of attitude" (good, bad and awkward) just like young people?

[suba]

Are we not having old people with a "spectrum of attitude" (good, bad and awkward) just like young people?

:thumbsup: :exactly:

:)

[Punnaimaran]

Rajan.
The comments, as 'பெருசு வீட்டுல சொல்லிட்டு வந்துட்டியா', can be heard only in Chennai in my experience .

Such a comment irritates me as much as when an old man demands respect just for his age and not for what he really is!

Are we not having old people with a "spectrum of attitude" (good, bad and awkward) just like young people?

Yes, but then it doesn't hurt anyone if they give respect to elders. I do not mean that you have to listen to all they say, just basic respect.

quote suba
//yaara iruntha ennanga... mariyaathai kodukka vendiyathu namma kadamai.

enna kettu pochu...????

of course, athai kaapaathikarathum keduthukarathum receiver's choice.//

I agree with this. :D

[Badri]

To live a balanced life, one needs a healthy dose of humility and self-confidence. Humility without self-confidence would lead to becoming a door mat, while self-confidence untempered by humility would very soon become arrogance.

Respecting others helps cultivate the humility aspect. It is best to respect everyone - their feelings, their opinions, beliefs etc. But sometimes, just the make-up of the human psyche makes it very difficult to respect one's peers or those that are below one's level in terms of age in the same way as one's superiors or the elderly.

Just the way we have been conditioned (and I am not saying this is right or wrong, just the way it is) makes it seem ludicrous to us to accord the same respect to a 10-year old that one would give to a 60-year old.

With the 10-year old, one is expected to be assertive. If only more people were assertive, you would probably not find 12 and 15 yr olds smoking, and behaving in anti-social manners. Being assertive with them might teach them respect!

But if you were assertive with everyone, then where will we learn humility? Therefore it was mandated "Respect the elders".

Those that are greater than you in age are to be respected.

But let us understand this very clearly - it is not for the sake of the elders, but for our own sake. It is so that we may learn to respect and be humble, rather than what the elderly deserve etc. as has been the burden of this topic!

In saying "it doesn't hurt to respect"etc, we are thinking of it as doing them a favour by respecting, and that we don't lose anything by it. But look at it differently, and you might find rather than not losing anything by it, you might actually gain something from it!

Again, I am not saying this is how it should be; rather I am putting out an angle for consideration! If we look at it as benefiting us, then mayhap we would not be so reluctant in adopting a respectful attitude, despite what the other person deserves or not.

[Roshan]

Badri :thumbsup:

[gaddeswarup]

Badri,
I am not too sure about this. I think that older people have enough experience to take some disrepect in their stride. I find that it is the younger people who are more sensitive and one should be careful with them. Often older people like me do not have enough time to reason with them and hide behind respect. I remember that I slapped my son when he was about seven years old. He said that I should explain to him what he did wrong and just slapping did not serve any purpose.

[thamiz]

You are saying, Why cant wise old people tolerate the ignorant reckless young people? And that their experience should have helped them to be "immune" to such "immature attitude" of young people!

Well that is what "wise old people" will do!

Then, How about one who is old but not wise enough?

Wise young people should consider "such old people" as well and just respect all the old people for their age as suggested here!

When that settles, the biggest question is "How do you define the "respect"?:D

The expected "respect" can be more complicated than what one thinks! :lol:

[r2tchasi]

Sometimes, I feel arguments with the elders is not more so to make them agree to what we are saying. Rather, the argument is to allow us to say what we want to say. :huh: