What a shame!

[NOV]

Hi NOV, apa khabar? We have our very own case-Daphne Iking. Her husband did file a suit on enticement.Hi AR, khabar baik* :D
What is with this new id? :huh: PM me pls.

Even in her case, it was "enticement" not "adultery." Some bored lawyer must have looked up the archaic law. :lol: Anyway as you are aware the case just fizzled out and there were talks of repealiing this colonial law.

an old joke: childhood is not as enjoyable for a child as adultery is for an adult. :lol2:

* khabar baik is malay for I am fine (in response to AR's query)

[Sanjeevi]

Potham Pothuvaga Kalacharathai kindal pannuvathu rombavE over :evil: .

ஐயா! நானும் இதே கலாச்சார நாட்டுல இருந்து தான் வர்றேன் ..அத நெனச்சு பெருமைப்பட முடியல்ல ..அது கிண்டல் இல்ல .ஆத்திரம் ..அவமானம் ..சும்மா கலாச்சாரம் -ன்னு பேப்பர்-ல எழுதி வச்சுகிட்டா போதுமா ? வீதிகளில் எங்கிருக்கு கலாச்சாரம் ? :huh:

Again you are going like "Potham Pothuvaga"

Somebody please tell what is culture and what are the elements and what things it says to follow and what not?

oops.. please replace culture with indian culture.

[NOV]

In conclusion, what this world needs is not more laws and constant judging, but love, compassion and understanding.

[NOV]

Somebody please tell what is culture and what are the elements and what things it says to follow and what not?Culture is not static and is always changing. What was common for our ancestors, say a thousand years ago, are no longer common for us today.

In fact, I would go as far to say today's morality was thrust upon us and is not originally ours to begin with. Globalisation. :lol2:

[pavalamani pragasam]

In conclusion, what this world needs is not more laws and constant judging, but love, compassion and understanding.

..and responsibility, commitment and accountability and above all dignity befitting discerning six-sensed human beings.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Potham Pothuvaga Kalacharathai kindal pannuvathu rombavE over :evil: .

ஐயா! நானும் இதே கலாச்சார நாட்டுல இருந்து தான் வர்றேன் ..அத நெனச்சு பெருமைப்பட முடியல்ல ..அது கிண்டல் இல்ல .ஆத்திரம் ..அவமானம் ..சும்மா கலாச்சாரம் -ன்னு பேப்பர்-ல எழுதி வச்சுகிட்டா போதுமா ? வீதிகளில் எங்கிருக்கு கலாச்சாரம் ? :huh:

Again you are going like "Potham Pothuvaga"

Somebody please tell what is culture and what are the elements and what things it says to follow and what not?

oops.. please replace culture with indian culture.


Googling for the meaning of culture I found this:

Culture is the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon man's capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations... the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group. Culture means many different things to different people: the clothing, the food, the values, the laws, the beliefs, the music and dance, the material things, the language, the art, the medicine or healing practices, the shared history, the kinship system (whom you consider to be family), the stories, the hairstyles, the economic system, and much more, of a group of people. Families, neighborhoods, ethnic groups (groups of' people from the same part of the world), religious groups, regions, countries, all have their own cultures. Culture is constantly changing as people and places change.

[NOV]

In conclusion, what this world needs is not more laws and constant judging, but love, compassion and understanding.

..and responsibility, commitment and accountability and above all dignity befitting discerning six-sensed human beings.Honestly and respectfully PP mam, I really don't understand the inherent need to be so judgemental.

Really, why can't we let people do what they want, as long as its not harmful to anyone.

[P_R]

Really, why can't we let people do what they want, as long as its not harmful to anyone.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here..."harm" is not as obvious to define as we think :-)

[P_R]

Thanks for educating me: after same sex marriage what could follow is marriage with robots! :lol: :-) Even that is something I was able to imagine, he'll most probably surprise me !

[NOV]

Really, why can't we let people do what they want, as long as its not harmful to anyone.Just playing Devil's Advocate here..."harm" is not as obvious to define as we think :-)I was thinking of it while posting.. :lol2:
But then again, we arent into psycho-analysing yet, I hope. :P

[pavalamani pragasam]

'not harmful to anyone' is a very deceptive, dangerous term. Why do we have a government? Why do we have traffic rules? Why do we have railway stations, signals, stationmasters? Why do we have district collectors? Why do we have ration shops? why do we have police stations? why? Why? Why? Because we want to be governed/guided/ protected into smooth system of life. Just like our civic laws there are basic moral laws to ensure smooth, happy life with meaningful relationships.

Why do you think a person's private life does not affect the society in general? How do you conclude the prevalent customs do not affect the mindset and social behaviour of growing children? Children ape what they see- are we not responsible to teach them loyal, binding, lasting relationships? Teach them to live guilt-free, happy life? Want them them to cherish, relish warm familial feelings? No rules, no regulations, no discipline, no control, no norms mean chaos, utter disorder. The argument of not harming anyone is fallacious. Let us not encourage our posterity to shirk their duties. No human being is free from 'duties'!

[NOV]

among the why's, why isn't there a "why do we have a brain?" :D

a happy warm family is usually an exception, not the rule. millions of women stay in a marriage not because of happiness or warmness but because of their helplessness.
children of such families are by no stretch of mind, "healthy" children. ask them what they have learnt from seeing their parent's marriage and most likely they will tell you they want to be different. :lol:

hey, I cant believe this: I am arguing for independent women while PP madam is arguing for keeping them trapped. :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

This is exactly the the trend I'm up in arms against: that all marriages are failures; all women are drowning in tears of marital woes; marriage is a shackle; women need to be emancipated from a desperate trap and so forth. The media and a host of 'liberationists' are crying hoarse for freedom for fettered women! They are shouting from every platform they can get on! Highly ridiculous and absurd to say all marriages are failures, all married women are just enduring their bondage without happiness; all households are battlefields making children grow up into perverts and misfits; warmth of the hearth is a myth etc etc. Atrocious falsehoods! Height of cynicism and pessimism. Happy families are not not exceptions, but unhappy marriages are. Do we cut our nose to spite our face? Do we do away with a wise system just because there are a few misadventures? The sensible thing will be to improve the system and not to abolish it.

Wrong priorities and mischieous propaganda about feminine emancipation are the main reason for increasing marriage woes/failures. Once discontent creeps in it is difficut to make a woman see sense. She is being a puppet in the hands of self-seeking charlatans. Poor woman! And poor man!!!!

[pavalamani pragasam]

What is independence? No responsibilities? No duties? No maternal cares? No cooking, no washing, no nappies, no night vigils, no mentor, no master- this is the lure the modern is falling in for! Huh! What an independence! No pain, no gain. Life is give and take.

[NOV]

PP madam, life is more grey than white or black.

In the past you would have recalled the meaning of "culture" from your own knowledge or looked up a dictionary. Today, you just googled and came up with more than enough information.

You can adapt to technology because you have opened your mind to it.

That's all there is to it. :wave:

[pavalamani pragasam]

:roll: What has open mind to do with this? aattukkallum ammiyum pOkalaam, dictionary will be replaced by google; but it is a woman who bears and delivers the baby unless some unimaginable, abominable scientific invention makes man do it!!! What I mean is certain things can and must change; certain things cannot and must not change- for the good of mankind.

[Shakthiprabha]

As long as we live in a society, for harmonious living, reasonable moral responsibility is MUCH NEEDED. That is why India still has family values and happy children around. Agreed that every moral value comes with right parental guidance....and LAW NEED NOT, CANNOT AND SOUNDS ILLOGICAL to intervene into personal affairs of any xyz.

But such OPEN announcement as a judgement, need to be checked, cause many young minds are vulnerable and increasingly not guided in right path. Mind control is increasingly difficult for man, when no check is had, then it is bound to be let loose. What is let loose today as 40 percent (assuming) would become 60...and more... Harmony would be COMPLETELY lost at what cost? Definitely most ethical and moral guidelines are inscribed for happy living.

Also like what pp maam said, amongst many sections of individuals today high mis-conceptions about "dividing our roles" in society as men and women and one role is sadly UNDER ESTIMATED to be a submissive role (by women themselves) . Woman should take up her role proudly, definitely it does pave well for healthy society, balanced society. This DOES NOT MEAN keeping quiet on alarming issues and giving up one's right totally and live a life of puppet.

Law cannot and should not intervene, it is INDIVIDUAL MAN AND WOMAN who is gonna decide about pre or post marital sex or who they are gonna live iwth or change partner etc. However declaring it openly AND PASSING IT as a judgement or verdict is bound to have its ... effect.

Yeah...nothing can be done...times change...values are bound to change..What was there prevelent 200 years back is no longer in vogue...so...lets wait n watch :|

ps: an after thought:

Extreme sensitivity of our "cultural folks" finally results in making every issue with utterance of word "Sex" as taboo and against culture! They dont mind taking such issues to court and talking, evaluating commenting and disucssing NUMEROUS times! What would have been dismissed as a normal hear-say comment now every boy n girl in most street corners talks discusses and opines.

[podalangai]

Law cannot and should not intervene, it is INDIVIDUAL MAN AND WOMAN who is gonna decide about pre or post marital sex or who they are gonna live iwth or change partner etc. However declaring it openly AND PASSING IT as a judgement or verdict is bound to have its ... effect.

Shakthiprabha, what should the courts have done? People filed criminal charges against Khushboo on the basis that she was instigating criminal behaviour. Instigating criminal behaviour is a crime. Should they have let Khushboo go to jail so they could have avoided pronouncing on the question of whether pre-marital sex and living together are criminal? Would that have been just? If the courts were to find her innocent, the only way open to them is to hold as they did.

Once the case was brought against her, the courts were literally left with no choice but to pronounce - in the form of a judgment or verdict - on the issue of whether consensual pre-marital sex is a crime. They said that it isn't. And indeed it isn't under Indian law - Indian law does not criminalise consensual pre-marital sex between people above the age of consent (and, arguably, the constitution would prevent its criminalisation). That is literally all the court said in this case.

[podalangai]

stongly condemn SC saying pre marrital sex

acceptable and not unlawful

The Supreme Court was only pronouncing on the issue of whether pre-marital sex is criminal or not. Does anyone here seriously think that two teenagers who have sex before marriage should be branded criminals, go through a criminal trial in the Magistrate's court, and have criminal sentences passed against them? Why all this hue and cry about the judgment then? Whether pre-marital sex is a good thing or not is an entirely different issue from that of whether criminal law is the right instrument to reduce its incidence in society.


But this is the same SC which allowed gay marrige also
Sankara, the Supreme Court has not allowed gay marriage. They've only said that people cannot be sent to jail for being homosexuals. That's it.

[PatchyBoy]

Pre-marital sex is nothing new to Indian culture. It has existed from the days of Kunthi and Karna. We can argue till we are blue in the face that Kunti was still a virgin and Karna's birth was not a result of sex. That reminds me of a passage from Dr. Abraham Kovoor's book, where he states that making young children believe that the birth of a divine personality was the result of God rubbing his toe against the mother's navel and not as a result of sex, only results in the child believing that the navel needs to be protected to remain a virgin. I cannot understand why we are kicking up a fuss about it now.

There seem to be a number of people here who condone pre-marital sex and none of what they say has been taken to court. Then why should the SC waste its time with what Kushboo said? This in a country, where, if a common man commits a grave crime, it probably takes years to get a judgement. Is Kushboo's statement so world-changing that it has to be treated such?

One integral part of Indian culture seems to be hypocrisy. By the very act of making sex a taboo subject and portraying it as a evil thing, aren't we subtly piquing the curiosity of our children? Wouldn't we be better off educating our children about sex? By holding on to history in the name of culture and heritage, we are only hampering our own progress.

Rajan

[thamiz]

Rajan: The major problem is that still arranged marriages dominate in our culture. OK , if you think premarital sex is not wrong, then we should eradicate "arranged marriage" between "strangers". We are not doing that!

When people still want to stick to arranged marriages, you want to allow premarital sex (considering that is harmless), then they should at least marry one of the partners with whom they fell in love and slept with. That is NOT happening either.

Premarital sex is for just practising sex and later, marrying a stranger with whom you never slept with, is what making things more complicated and awkward in our culture than the western lifestyle.

Either stop premarital sex as what we believe as good for our arranged marriage culture or stop arranged marriage completely, and choose your partner by loving and sleeping with. But what has been happening is அரைக்கிணறு தாண்டுதல்! அதான் பிரச்சினையே.

தமிழ் கல்யாணம்னு இன்னும் மாட்ரிமோனி அப்புறம் குலம் கோத்ரம்னு பார்த்து ஏன் ஹைலி எஜுக்கேட்டெட் மக்களும் செய்றாங்க?

Caste system and marrying within the same caste still dominates in our culture! Then how are you going to allow premarital sex in such a setting?

[rajraj]

தமிழ் கல்யாணம்னு இன்னும் மாட்ரிமோனி அப்புறம் குலம் கோத்ரம்னு பார்த்து ஏன் ஹைலி எஜுக்கேட்டெட் மக்களும் செய்றாங்க?

Caste system and marrying within the same caste still dominates in our culture!

And promotes in-breeding ! :(

[r2tchasi]

Even in her case, it was "enticement" not "adultery." Some bored lawyer must have looked up the archaic law. :lol: Anyway as you are aware the case just fizzled out and there were talks of repealiing this colonial law.


It was her husband who filed the caselah. It was more to shame the parties involved rather than to get justice. What justice can you get anyway? :) - Adultery is morally wrong fullstop Laws aren't there to criminalise adultery. It is there to implicate that adultery is wrong.
Yup, the case is no longer the case, NOV. :lol:

Kushboo's statement: 'Some Tamil women whom I know are indulging in premarital sex.'

Next come the lawsuits.

Meaning: It is a crime to know people who are into premarital sex (or any other immoral activities)? :roll:

[groucho070]

As long as nobody gets hurt What if I feel "hurt" by moral outrage ? :lol2: :lol2:
Apart from physical hurt, causing psychological trauma (eg. threats, ) is a punishable offence - we'd be ready agree with that.Yes, most lawmakers all over the world have established that. It's a multi-billion dollar industry in the US.


What about 'public decency' - that ever changing cultural thing where standards are progressively 'lowered'.One day my mom said, she saw this old movie with Anuradha doing cabaret dancing, and she said, "ippo ulla arai-kurai dress podura heroines-e thevalam pola irukku". Is it about clothing? Behavioiur? Smooching your girlfriend, gay friend or wife in public is norm in Singapore, can be charged as public indecency in Malaysia if confronted by sexually surpressed cop. Singaporean authorities don't give a damn, they are more concerned about making sure the people have good life and vote for the ruling party again the next election.


How would one react ? The streaker is a regular in these arguments - and I am surprised he hasn't made an appearance thus far. :-) :lol: During 1974 Oscar, the presenter David Niven was suddenly interrupted by a Streaker who ran across the stage. Niven: " "Isn't it fascinating to think, that probably the only laugh that man will ever get in his life, is by stripping off and showing his shortcomings?"


And this is my favourite: what about "Hurting religious sentiments" - there we may get slightly cat-on-the-wall. Responses will range from "it's a free country, grow some skin" to "தவிர்த்திருக்கலாம்", "வருத்தத்துக்குரியது" to "கண்டனத்துக்குரியது".No comments from someone who is not in a free country. Till today I am confused as to Malaysia is a Islamic country or not.

In many places the charges center around 'likely to incite violence'.Reasons why bad big budget movies like Minority Report get made.

Note: this is not necessarily linked to actual acts of violence, but presumption that it may lead to. That means the incitability of the people is also taken into account, isn't it ?! The bad guy in Under Siege 2: "Assumption is mother of all f***ups". Who knows? Who can tell? What authority do you have to presume such act will happen? What is authority? The guy who urinated his territory?


So as people become more balanced (or 'permissive' based on how one sees it !) previous offences no longer are offences ! Rather than being set in stone on these issues, the law changes - which can be understandably unsettling. We law as the cornerstone with reference to which society operates but in many cases there is a feedback loop.Well said :clap: There will always be evolution, physical, psychological, cultural, etc. :D

[pavalamani pragasam]

That reminds me of one important evolution I see: when I was a kid my dad used to describe cultural difference by quoting laughingly,'my children and your children and our children are playing together'. In the past two generations our young men and women have evolved into more shrewd beings recognising children factor as nuisance which is to be avoided as plague!!! :lol:

[rajraj]

'my children and your children and our children are playing together'.

Except that the number children has come down considerably in the US. :lol:

[AudazJay]

[tscii:ba183d8368]
This is exactly the the trend I'm up in arms against: that all marriages are failures; all women are drowning in tears of marital woes; marriage is a shackle; women need to be emancipated from a desperate trap and so forth. The media and a host of 'liberationists' are crying hoarse for freedom for fettered women! They are shouting from every platform they can get on! Highly ridiculous and absurd to say all marriages are failures, all married women are just enduring their bondage without happiness; all households are battlefields making children grow up into perverts and misfits; warmth of the hearth is a myth etc etc. Atrocious falsehoods! Height of cynicism and pessimism. Happy families are not not exceptions, but unhappy marriages are. Do we cut our nose to spite our face? Do we do away with a wise system just because there are a few misadventures? The sensible thing will be to improve the system and not to abolish it.

With all due respect, PP maam, I beg to differ with you on this point. I don’t find it absurd or ridiculous to note the high amount of failed marriages or that most women are staying on with their marriage as a matter of vulnerability than of love and affection. To say otherwise is akin to living in a denial. I’m not saying that all marriages are failures, but sadly a high number of it happened to be. Of course, there are many reasons to quote for the failure of marriages; lack of love, compassion and respect to one another are some of the reasons but I strongly believe that women being independent have nothing to do with the predicament we face today.

That brings us to your next question…


What is independence? No responsibilities? No duties? No maternal cares? No cooking, no washing, no nappies, no night vigils, no mentor, no master- this is the lure the modern is falling in for! Huh! What an independence! No pain, no gain. Life is give and take.

Being independent has nothing to do with “discharging” a woman from her responsibility, duties, maternal care, etc. Being independent means to do all the above (cooking, washing, changing nappies, etc) simply because she wants to and not because she had to.

All through my life, I was taught to respect women. I was educated on women’s rights and liberties and I grew up watching women from my circle of life advocating and practicing those rights. What are those rights? Being able to speak up in the company of men, being able to stand firm on their two feet, being able to make their decisions on how to lead their life, choosing their career, their life partner etc. And it’s not surprising that I want my future wife to be exactly that. If I want to start a family with her, it’s only because both of us want to and not because we’re expected to do so. Would I be offended if she wants to go out and work? Or would I get mad if she doesn’t cook dinner for me? I wouldn’t. I said that with certainty because that’s how I was brought up. My mom is 60 years old and she still works in a private company. She doesn’t have to but she does it anyway because the job gives her a contentment that she doesn’t get by staying at home. There are times when she comes back home late, that my dad ends up cooking dinner for us. Does this make us loathe our mom? Do we feel that she’s grown so independent that she failed to fulfill her duty as a mother and a wife? Absolutely not. She’s still the mom we love and the love and respect that our parents have for one another stays true if not grown all these years. In fact, looking back at my family, I strongly believe that my future wife should be exactly that. Someone who can stand on her own feet, someone who stays in a marriage for love and because she wants to, rather than staying because she was being dominated by a so-called “master”.

And like you rightly point out, life is all about giving and taking and that applies to both men and women. But in reality, how many men out there really gives? They say that marriage is all about compromises, but why do we see only the women compromising in most things? How many women out there have become victims to domestic violence? And can you tell me for certain that dowry practices have ceased to be a factor for mental and physical violation against women today? How many more women have to become victims before we start to look upon women as a fellow human rather than a machine to cook, feed and clean? Things are changing, yes but if the changes are going to enable women to have a better platform to voice out their opinion, and the strength to stand up alongside men in all departments, then these changes are definitely welcomed.

Which brings us to the crux of this topic…Kushbu’s statement that men don’t expect their wife to be virgin. My question is, why does this statement attracts strong objections from the public? Because Kushbu seems to be enticing women to have pre-marital sex?
Would the same public object if her statement implicates that women do not expect their husbands to be virgin?

There are hues and cries about Supreme Court’s decision on this matter. The public felt that Supreme Court have given a wrong idea in the public’s mind by declaring that pre-marital sex is not a crime. To quote SP's words


Law cannot and should not intervene, it is INDIVIDUAL MAN AND WOMAN who is gonna decide about pre or post marital sex or who they are gonna live iwth or change partner etc. However declaring it openly AND PASSING IT as a judgement or verdict is bound to have its ... effect.

Now, my question is, how do we expect the court to declare it otherwise? The court’s duty is to give a verdict on the issues on hand. The petition filed in court was expressly to quash criminal proceedings against Kushboo who made an observation that premarital sex is no offense as living together is no offense.
Thus, the question which the court needs to address was whether she had committed a crime by making such observations. And I truly agree with the court when it states that there is no law which prohibits live-in relationship or pre-marital sex. Stating otherwise would mean that Kushbu’s observation is tantamount to a criminal act, which is not.
[/tscii:ba183d8368]

[pavalamani pragasam]

Very good, AudazJay! I admire your clairvoyance and calm approach. Let me also congratulate you for the luck of having an exceptional classic family. My regards to your parents. May your life be a replica of your parents'! You see, mine also happens to be a similar family of understanding, affectionate men and women except that our family's women-my 2 dils, daughter and myself) have not opted for career. All four of us are educated, intelligent and multiskilled. Our 4 men love to dabble in the kitchen. No fuss aboout women standing upon men all the time.

Well, how many families are like mine and yours? In the vast population, a janatha family should be our concern, how its members are affected, exclusive, elite families do not come under discussion of this sort. How many temptations do the ordinary young boys and girls meet todat, the obscenities in the media, the pub culture, the dating scope, above all the greed fed on by a glaringly consumeristic world? The bulk, the masses matter for a country's progress, prosperity. When they are tempted, enticed to become morally depraved a country loses heavily.

Khusboo had very bad things to say, generalise wantonly about Tamil Nadu's men and women which she had no right to do. Personal views, my foot! Falsehoods and arrogant allegations! With her 'might' she has come off unscathed. A shame it is the Supreme Court made such an obeisance to her lofty ideas about human morals! Going to the extent of citing mythology in support! Highly ridiculous state of affairs! Can we not speak with relevance to our present circumstances, the threats we face to dignified living? Lifestyles change but not certain basic values!

[Badri]

Much ado about nothing! but more surprised to see PP so involved!


Khusboo had very bad things to say, generalise wantonly about Tamil Nadu's men and women which she had no right to do. Personal views, my foot! Falsehoods and arrogant allegations!

Are you saying Mrs PP that this absolutely does not happen in Tamil Nadu? Or was Kushboo wrong to just call it out as she saw it?

Like it or not, the culture that was once India's is changing due to globalisation. There has to be a comfortable balance, not the extremism of culture policing!

With the world becoming smaller, with IT and other professions providing plenty of opportunities to travel, with Hollywood making inroads into every home, with obscene dance and song sequences in regional Indian cinema - what are we still crying about?

One woman speaking her mind? That is suddenly the big issue?

The Supreme Court verdict is going to change what exactly?

Those that do not want to do it, wont.
Those that anyway will do it, will continue!
Some extreme fanatics will take to the streets and burn effigies while busy Hubbers will increase the post count!

[Shakthiprabha]

podalangai, audaz,

The fact I probably failed to mention was , I aint too happy about the 'public behaviour n attitude' of takign such matter to the court, having known WELL THE PRESENT scenario and cult country has come to embrace.

Obviously court would say ppl have freedom of speech. Any law in any country is bound to bend and get flexible considering the present situation and majority of the people's mind set or / and living style. Court's verdict was but expected and then we make a hue and cry about the same.

Summa iruntha sangai oodhi kedutha ithu thaan aagum... Now that the verdict is openly out, consequences would follow.

:wave:

I am out of this thread.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Somewhere along I remember reading about growing skin! Perhaps that is what the majority of the people are doing and want me to do also! :huh:

ஆடை இல்லா ஊரில் கோவணம் கட்டியவன் கோமாளி!

[pavalamani pragasam]

Another sign of the modern world's malady: ennui! Too lazy and bored to get 'involved'!!!! Why such an ado about sex discipline and human reationship ethics? Lucky am I not to have yet been engulfed by ennui! :rotfl3:

[Sanjeevi]

Potham Pothuvaga Kalacharathai kindal pannuvathu rombavE over :evil: .

ஐயா! நானும் இதே கலாச்சார நாட்டுல இருந்து தான் வர்றேன் ..அத நெனச்சு பெருமைப்பட முடியல்ல ..அது கிண்டல் இல்ல .ஆத்திரம் ..அவமானம் ..சும்மா கலாச்சாரம் -ன்னு பேப்பர்-ல எழுதி வச்சுகிட்டா போதுமா ? வீதிகளில் எங்கிருக்கு கலாச்சாரம் ? :huh:

Again you are going like "Potham Pothuvaga"

Somebody please tell what is culture and what are the elements and what things it says to follow and what not?

oops.. please replace culture with indian culture.


Googling for the meaning of culture I found this:

Culture is the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon man's capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations... the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group. Culture means many different things to different people: the clothing, the food, the values, the laws, the beliefs, the music and dance, the material things, the language, the art, the medicine or healing practices, the shared history, the kinship system (whom you consider to be family), the stories, the hairstyles, the economic system, and much more, of a group of people. Families, neighborhoods, ethnic groups (groups of' people from the same part of the world), religious groups, regions, countries, all have their own cultures. Culture is constantly changing as people and places change.

This is impressive answer. So I can proud about India Culture :)

[joe]

The Supreme Court verdict is going to change what exactly?

Those that do not want to do it, wont.
Those that anyway will do it, will continue!
Some extreme fanatics will take to the streets and burn effigies while busy Hubbers will increase the post count!
:yes:

[P_R]

(sic)
Calvin: You know what Dad did the other day
Hobbes: what ?
Calvin: He bought a book and paid for it in cash
Hobbes: ?
Calvin: He said he didn't want his card tracked and marketing offers sent in mail for similar books he may like
Hobbes: Your Dad's going into the future kicking and screaming, isn't he ?

[complicateur]

And just because I enjoy throwing logs into a fire:
1. I have a question for those who believe that it is the job of parents to influence personal choices - What of those that do not have the luxury of parents?

2. Why must two sets of coda - the legal and the moral - exist? Seems like an excuse to create occupations does it not? (Priests and Lawyers)

[r2tchasi]

And just because I enjoy throwing logs into a fire:
1. I have a question for those who believe that it is the job of parents to influence personal choices - What of those that do not have the luxury of parents?
'Sendiri mau tau lah'! In other words, suyabutthi. And since when parents could influence their children? Try asking parents of teenagers. Parents set guidelines/examples for children to follow. To say parents are influential...nah...it comes back to the children's suyabutthi. So, with parental presence or not, it's back to suyabutthi.


2. Why must two sets of coda - the legal and the moral - exist? Seems like an excuse to create occupations does it not? (Priests and Lawyers)
Legal-external deterent
Moral-deterent from within

[pavalamani pragasam]

:exactly:

[dsath]

An interesting article in times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7074875.ece


The Indian Government does not provide statistics for unmarried couples cohabiting but a study by the Mumbai-based International Institute for Population Sciences last month showed that 17 per cent of young men in rural areas said that they had had premarital sex, compared with 10 per cent in urban areas.

The survey of 55,000 women and men aged 15-29 also showed that 4 per cent of women in rural areas claimed to have had premarital sex, compared with 2 per cent in the cities.


I wonder why the percentages are high in rural India for both men and women !!!!

[NOV]

[tscii:f4cfb17458]
With all due respect, PP maam, I beg to differ with you on this point. I don’t find it absurd or ridiculous to note the high amount of failed marriages or that most women are staying on with their marriage as a matter of vulnerability than of love and affection. To say otherwise is akin to living in a denial. I’m not saying that all marriages are failures, but sadly a high number of it happened to be. Of course, there are many reasons to quote for the failure of marriages; lack of love, compassion and respect to one another are some of the reasons but I strongly believe that women being independent have nothing to do with the predicament we face today................

I take a big :bow: to your parents who have done well to bring you up. There seems to be hope for the younger generation. :clap:

mr. logger - :lol2: for orphans, isnt the parental role taken over by guardians? Surely that must count for something. :roll:[/tscii:f4cfb17458]

[dsath]

The statistics about premarital sex is typical of India. As long as it happens under the carpet and the carpet is nice and clean it is fine.

We blame globalization for most of our ills. It is easy, isn't it ! But we fail to look at our own backyard.

Even so, this is not the first time we are touched by foreign influence. We have been in the past. Our culture adapted to that and has since evolved and it will continue evolving.

Unfortunately the real issue has been swept under the carpet yet again. The issue with AIDS and how to deal with it.
People who are going to do it will do it. The government (and Kushboo in her original interview) is/was just trying to encourage them to do it safely. There is a difference between encouraging out-of-marriage sex and encouraging people who indulge in it to do it safely.

For the record, I am not a fan of out-of-marriage sex and I will not encourage anyone to do it. But if they do it anyway, they should be encouraged to do it safely, so that the rest of the population will not be affected. I can't see anything wrong in that.

Even if it is wrong, there is nothing wrong in me thinking that my view is right and talk/write about it. It would be a shame if the SC bans me from doing so. Thank God for the verdict.

[podalangai]

For the record, I am not a fan of out-of-marriage sex and I will not encourage anyone to do it. But if they do it anyway, they should be encouraged to do it safely, so that the rest of the population will not be affected. I can't see anything wrong in that.
Exactly. Very well said.

[thamiz]

Are you saying Mrs PP that this absolutely does not happen in Tamil Nadu? Or was Kushboo wrong to just call it out as she saw it?

Are you sure WHAT Kushboo said EXACTLY?

I am sure you do not know that!

Nobody is denying the facts like existence of premarital sex and whores and pimps in Tamilnadu.

If I remember correct, Kushboo was questioning as if "There is none who is not involved in premarital sex"!

What does the law and court know about individual feelings???

In the near future a murderer will be let go freely according to the law and court. Does that really mean the one who accused of murdering is innocent?! So, it is true the law is above all of us but the law can be blind too at times!

[P_R]

IIRC Khusbhoo said no educated man in TN would any longer expect his bride to be a virgin .

Now, if we want to get uber-factual and say 97.35% of the educated men marry virgin women, with a standard error of 1.45% and rail at her for saying something patently incorrect, offensive and what not.

Or one can take a couple of breaths and see that what she said was simply an expresion to emphasize "how commonplace pre-marital sex".

Good old Letter v Spirit.

To quote from a movie Hugh Grant- Sandra Bullock movie

SB: You are the most selfish person in the world
HG: That's ridiculous. You don't know all the people in the world.

[thamiz]

IIRC Khusbhoo said no educated man in TN would any longer expect his bride to be a virgin .

Yeah, an illiterate talks about educated people's lifestyle. How can she make a correct statment?! :lol:

Well, I am sure she is let go because she has the "freedom of speech" just like anybody! It is NOT that what she said is correct Moreover, what she said was got manipulated "on the way to the supreme court" ! :D

[P_R]

Your murderer analogy is misplaced. Here the crime of expressing an opinion that sits ill with many people is not a punishable offence. So it is not as if she got away with circumstantial evidence or something.

SC வரைக்கும் இந்த மாதிரி கப்பி கேஸ் எல்லாம் கொண்டு போக வேண்டியது, அப்புறம் இத்தனை ஆயிரம் வழக்குகள் தேக்கம் அப்பிடின்ன வேண்டியது.ஓய்வு பெற்ற நீதிபதி ஒருத்தரைக் கூப்பிட்டு பெஞ்சு போட்டுறுவாங்க :lol2:

In some cases, if a higher court confirms the decision of a lower court, then the appellant should be fined heavily for wasting precious time and resources of the judiciary.

[P_R]

Yeah, an illiterate talks about educated people's lifestyle. How can she make a correct statment?! :lol:
You are disrespecting the judgement capabilities of illiterates. As they form a significant portion of the country you have sleighted the country as a whole. I take offense on behalf the masses. If only I weren't working late today I'd go out and burn your effigy.

[thamiz]

Yeah, an illiterate talks about educated people's lifestyle. How can she make a correct statment?! :lol:
You are disrespecting the judgement capabilities of illiterates.

No I am not, I am questioning the judgemental capability of a art teacher on an enzyme reaction as the teacher does not know "C" "N" "P" stands for elements! No offense meant here!

[thamiz]

Your murderer analogy is misplaced. Here the crime of expressing an opinion that sits ill with many people is not a punishable offence. So it is not as if she got away with circumstantial evidence or something.

SC வரைக்கும் இந்த மாதிரி கப்பி கேஸ் எல்லாம் கொண்டு போக வேண்டியது, அப்புறம் இத்தனை ஆயிரம் வழக்குகள் தேக்கம் அப்பிடின்ன வேண்டியது.ஓய்வு பெற்ற நீதிபதி ஒருத்தரைக் கூப்பிட்டு பெஞ்சு போட்டுறுவாங்க :lol2:

In some cases, if a higher court confirms the decision of a lower court, then the appellant should be fined heavily for wasting precious time and resources of the judiciary.


I DO NOT say that what she did is a CRIME and that she is a criminal. I am only saying she is ignorant! And law does not make anything right or wrong! It is just set of rules set arbitrarily by may be WHITE PEOPLE!

[P_R]

Yeah, an illiterate talks about educated people's lifestyle. How can she make a correct statment?! :lol:
You are disrespecting the judgement capabilities of illiterates.

No I am not, I am questioning the judgemental capability of a art teacher on an enzyme reaction as the teacher does not know "C" "N" "P" stands for elements! No offense meant here! Perhaps that was your intention, but rather than the spirit of your statement* if I stick by the letter of your statements it smacks of condescension for the toiling masses.

* which is still offensive to art teachers !

[thamiz]

Yeah, an illiterate talks about educated people's lifestyle. How can she make a correct statment?! :lol:
You are disrespecting the judgement capabilities of illiterates.

No I am not, I am questioning the judgemental capability of a art teacher on an enzyme reaction as the teacher does not know "C" "N" "P" stands for elements! No offense meant here! Perhaps that was your intention, but rather than the spirit of your statement* if I stick by the letter of your statements it smacks of condescension for the toiling masses.

* which is still offensive to art teachers !

You can read as you wish and interpret as you wish! This is a free world after all! :D

[P_R]

And law does not make anything right or wrong! I understand that you do understand that her opinion being right or wrong with her being right to express it. But I am being bull-headed and sticking to your words :


I DO NOT say that what she did is a CRIME and that she is a criminal.

Khushboo being let off by court does not mean she did no wrong

A murderer being let off by court does not mean he is not a murderer.

The inappropriateness of the analogy is what I was pointing out.

[P_R]

You can read as you wish and interpret as you wish! This is a free world after all! :D Wish that had been said about samooga aarvalar Kushboo's statement.

[thriinone]

You can read as you wish and interpret as you wish! This is a free world after all! :D

Why is poor Kushboo alone is an exception?

[thamiz]

I think many will understand much better if Kushboo has said, Who is vegetarian these days? Everybody eats chicken, meat and goat and fish!

I am sure the law will let her go as she is NOT a CRIMINAL!

But some will get seriously offended for sure! :lol:

[thamiz]

You can read as you wish and interpret as you wish! This is a free world after all! :D

Why is poor Kushboo alone is an exception?

What are you talking about??? :roll:

Kushboo is the WINNER as per the LAW! :roll:

Why is she "poor kushboo"??? :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

மல்லாக்க படுத்துகிட்டு எச்சில் துப்பினா மார் மேலதான் விழும்!

நம்ம நாடு ரொம்ப கேவலமானது, ஒழுக்கமே கிடையாது-அன்னிக்கும் இன்னிக்கும். பொறுப்புன்னா நமக்கு என்னான்னே தெரியாது; மூலை முடுக்கு விடாம அசிங்கம் எங்க பாத்தாலும் பல்ல இளிக்குது, கல்ச்சராவது வெங்காயமாவது; அது பத்தி பேச நமக்கு என்ன யோக்கியதை இருக்கு?

பத்திரிக்கை பரபரப்புக்காக போற போக்குல வாய் புளிச்சுதோ மாங்கா புளிச்சதோன்னு ஒருத்தி பேசுனதுக்கு இத்தனை பேர் இத்தனை விதமா வக்காலத்து! இதுக்கு பேர் என்ன? வெட்கக்கேடு!

It is not my intention to push anything under the carpet! The escalating ills I see around me are too glaring to be glossed over! That makes me sad, mad, concerned. Not scornful or unmoved or uninterested- as if it is somebody else's headache! Let us first learn to react and then to act.

[thamiz]

[tscii:980dc81afc]It is unlikely, however, to change habits among most Indians, who rarely indulge in premarital sex, let alone cohabit with lovers, and usually have their spouses chosen by their parents.

The actress, who goes by the single name of Khushboo, had appealed to the court to quash more than 20 cases filed against her in 2005 after she made allegedly immoral comments in magazine interviews. She told one publication that “no educated man would expect his to be a virgin”. The comments led to outrage in parts of southern India, where she is a star of Tamil-language movies.

The judges, however, challenged lawyers acting for the complainants to produce evidence of any girl running away with a lover in response to Khushboo’s comments. “Please tell us what is the offence and under which section should she be charged? Tell me how many people have been affected by Kushboo’s statement?” asked Chief Justice K. G. Balakrishnan.

Khushboo, 39, took her fight to the Supreme Court after a court in Madras dismissed her 2008 plea for it to quash the criminal cases filed against her.

[b]The Indian Government does not provide statistics for unmarried couples cohabiting but a study by the Mumbai-based International Institute for Population Sciences last month showed that 17 per cent of young men in rural areas said that they had had premarital sex, compared with 10 per cent in urban areas.

The survey of 55,000 women and men aged 15-29 also showed that 4 per cent of women in rural areas claimed to have had premarital sex, compared with 2 per cent in the cities.

[/tscii:980dc81afc]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7074875.ece

[Plum]

Yeah, an illiterate talks about educated people's lifestyle. How can she make a correct statment?! :lol:
You are disrespecting the judgement capabilities of illiterates. As they form a significant portion of the country you have sleighted the country as a whole. I take offense on behalf the masses. If only I weren't working late today I'd go out and burn your effigy.

:rotfl:

[thriinone]

You can read as you wish and interpret as you wish! This is a free world after all! :D

Why is poor Kushboo alone is an exception?

What are you talking about??? :roll:

Kushboo is the WINNER as per the LAW! :roll:

Why is she "poor kushboo"??? :lol:

தமிழ் கலாச்சார ஆர்வலர்களின் பல் இடுக்கில் சிக்கிக்கொண்டு தவிக்கிறாரே...அந்த பரிதாப உணர்ச்சி தான்... :lol:

[BM]

தமிழ் கலாச்சார ஆர்வலர்களின் பல் இடுக்கில் சிக்கிக்கொண்டு தவிக்கிறாரே...அந்த பரிதாப உணர்ச்சி தான்... :lol:
:rotfl: :thumbsup:

[pavalamani pragasam]

பல் இடுக்கில் சிக்கிய துணுக்குகளை எடுத்தெறியாவிட்டால் அவதிதானே? வருமுன் காப்பதுதானே புத்திசாலித்தனம்?

[pavalamani pragasam]

http://www.incubation360.com/rational-thoughts/34-rational-thoughts/270-supreme-court-and-live-in-relationships

[thamiz]

You can read as you wish and interpret as you wish! This is a free world after all! :D

Why is poor Kushboo alone is an exception?

What are you talking about??? :roll:

Kushboo is the WINNER as per the LAW! :roll:

Why is she "poor kushboo"??? :lol:

தமிழ் கலாச்சார ஆர்வலர்களின் பல் இடுக்கில் சிக்கிக்கொண்டு தவிக்கிறாரே...அந்த பரிதாப உணர்ச்சி தான்... :lol:

அது எந்தக்காலத்த்தில்???

சட்டம்தான் நம்ம கடவுள்களே ப்ரிமாரிட்டல் செக்ஸ் வச்சுக்கிட்டாங்கனு சொல்லிக் காப்பாத்திருச்சே! தெரியாதா உங்களுக்கு?

நீங்க என்ன சார் இன்னும் அந்தக்காலத்திலேயே இருக்கீங்க!

பலவருடங்கள் ஆயிடுச்சு! முழிச்சுக்கோங்க சார்! :lol:

[thamiz]

நம்ம சட்டம் வேடிக்கையானதாகிக்கிட்டுப் போகுது, கடவுள் ப்ரிமாரிட்டல் செக்ஸ் மட்டுமா வச்சுக்கிட்டாரு?

கடவுளையும் அவர் உணர்ச்சிகளையும் எப்படி மனிதர்களுக்கு சமமா இறக்கலாம்? :lol:

It is really dangerous to bring God's devine activities to justify Kushboo's statement! :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

And highly ridiculous! :oops:

[thamiz]

[tscii:8e36c71953]The judges pointed out that even the Hindu gods, Lord Krishna and Radha, were co-habiting lovers rather than man and wife. “When two adult people want to live together, what is the offence?” they said. “Living together is not an offence. Living together is a right to life.” [/tscii:8e36c71953]

God has done lots and lots of other things which can never be justified if Humans do that! :lol:

I am not talking about lord nithyanadha here! :lol:

I am talking about his GOds! :lol:

[thamiz]

And highly ridiculous! :oops:

May be judges thought Kushboo falls in a Goddess category as there was a temple built for her! :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

:rotfl3:

[r2tchasi]

May be judges thought Kushboo falls in a Goddess category as there was a temple built for her! :lol:

thamiz, you are funny, man! :D :lol:

[rajraj]

நீங்க என்ன சார் இன்னும் அந்தக்காலத்திலேயே இருக்கீங்க!

பலவருடங்கள் ஆயிடுச்சு! முழிச்சுக்கோங்க சார்! :lol:

You can quote 'anthakkaalam' or any kaalam if it is 'convenient' for you ! :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

:yes:

[Kambar_Kannagi]

Sorry if this has been already posted.

http://hayyram.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post_9463.html

[pavalamani pragasam]

Wow! What a wonderful article! I feel stregthened and invigorated! Thank you very much, Kambar_Kannagi! :D And excellent continuation of the author in the comments section too! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Kambar_Kannagi]

Wow! What a wonderful article! I feel stregthened and invigorated! Thank you very much, Kambar_Kannagi! :D And excellent continuation of the author in the comments section too! :clap: :clap: :clap:

:D PP ma'am.

The author has turned off the right-click function, can't copy paste the contents here. So, others have to go to the blog to read it. :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

That is no problem! What a sensible, level-headed person! Admirable!

[Shakthiprabha]

I am sure few of u would not agree with me, when I say, in the name of "attacking the kushbooites and the anti cultural mass", folks who wanna preserve the culture goes lil beyond 'cultural and clean way to express or talk'. There are only very few exceptions ...sad.

I better be prepared to get replies talking on "injection pains...but it cures" or "mullai mulaal edukkanam" examples.

very sad.

[P_R]

http://hayyram.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post_9463.html
shabbaa...ஜனநாயகத்துல பொறுமை ரொம்ப அவசியம். அதுக்கு ஒரு பயிற்சா இந்த கட்டுரையைப் படிக்கலாம்.

[NOV]

What are you worried of SP? Your progressive thoughts? Don't!
Increasingly there are more people with open minds. Thats the power of evolution. :lol:

[joe]

http://hayyram.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post_9463.html
shabbaa...ஜனநாயகத்துல பொறுமை ரொம்ப அவசியம். அதுக்கு ஒரு பயிற்சா இந்த கட்டுரையைப் படிக்கலாம்.

:rotfl:

[pavalamani pragasam]

Progressive thoughts? :huh:

[Shakthiprabha]

Thanks to the "OPEN MINDS" they are able to digest ANYTHING pro or against culture. Not much diff in language of communication. Content varies though :D

"Oh dont judge the book by its cover" :lol2:

[Kambar_Kannagi]

http://hayyram.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post_9463.html
shabbaa...ஜனநாயகத்துல பொறுமை ரொம்ப அவசியம். அதுக்கு ஒரு பயிற்சா இந்த கட்டுரையைப் படிக்கலாம்.

:rotfl:

Sorry, I didn't get the joke... :roll:

[joe]

http://hayyram.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post_9463.html
shabbaa...ஜனநாயகத்துல பொறுமை ரொம்ப அவசியம். அதுக்கு ஒரு பயிற்சா இந்த கட்டுரையைப் படிக்கலாம்.
:rotfl:
Sorry, I didn't get the joke... :roll:

இது மாதிரி ஒரு மொக்கை கட்டுரையை படிக்கிறதால பொறுமை வளரும் .அது ஜனநாயகத்துக்கு நல்லது -ங்குறாரு 8-)

[Kambar_Kannagi]

இது மாதிரி ஒரு மொக்கை கட்டுரையை படிக்கிறதால பொறுமை வளரும் .அது ஜனநாயகத்துக்கு நல்லது -ங்குறாரு 8-)

அவரை விடுவோம். நீங்களும் அதனை 'மொக்கை' கட்டுரை என்குறீர்களா??? :)

[P_R]

Sorry, I didn't get the joke... :roll: The author is intentionally missing the point. He sees the courts' limited role and still expects courts to be the pronouncers of morality !

To paraphrase the exact sentence : "Just because something is not illegal does not mean people can do whatever they want. Or atleast such a notion should not be propogated". Whose job is that ? The courts ?

Then he proceeds to launch on all the all too familiar attack on Khushboo's locus standi to make such observations. (as if it will make a difference if the statement were made by a erudite social scientist who is the epitome of virtue !).

What exactly did you expect the court to have done in this case ?

If we really think the law should pronounce moral diktats, then we should strongly support the Taliban regime. They were enforcing morality and fighting western decadence. i.e. it was not left to the people to choose with their best judegment and institutions like the family acting as natural checks for guidance. Instead they said : "certain things are sacred and set in stone, they never ever change with time, we will lose our identity, so we have to be firm and enforce with a iron first. Pretty much put into the minds of the people the fear of transgression. Stoning of women who falter from their roles as kudumba kuthuviLakkus would be perfectly understandable. Honor killing of adulterous women who tarnish the institution of 'family' and promote debasement of values, should be welcomed wholehearrtedly. After all they all mean well. They wanted to protect institutions as we have known them all along, to remain unchanged.

This debate is not about whether something is right-or-wrong. It is about what should be dictated by law ? Where do we draw a line ?

[joe]

[tscii:3d7e7631e7]


இது மாதிரி ஒரு மொக்கை கட்டுரையை படிக்கிறதால பொறுமை வளரும் .அது ஜனநாயகத்துக்கு நல்லது -ங்குறாரு 8-)

அவரை விடுவோம். நீங்களும் அதனை 'மொக்கை' கட்டுரை என்குறீர்களா??? :) Infact , ’மொக்கை’ -ன்னு அவர் சொல்லல .நானே உரிமையா சேர்த்துகிட்டது தான் . :) [/tscii:3d7e7631e7]

[joe]

This debate is not about whether something is right-or-wrong. It is about what should be dictated by law ? Where do we draw a line ?
:exactly:

எல்லா சட்டங்களும் தனிமனித ஒழுக்க நெறியிலும் அடங்கும் .ஆனால் எல்லா தனிமனித ஒழுக்க நெறிகளும் சட்டத்தினுள் அடங்க வேண்டுமென்ற அவசியம் இல்லை.

[NOV]

PR :thumbsup:

idhukku mela thelivaa inimEl solla mudiyaadhu

[Kambar_Kannagi]

This debate is not about whether something is right-or-wrong. It is about what should be dictated by law ? Where do we draw a line ?
:exactly:

எல்லா சட்டங்களும் தனிமனித ஒழுக்க நெறியிலும் அடங்கும் .ஆனால் எல்லா தனிமனித ஒழுக்க நெறிகளும் சட்டத்தினுள் அடங்க வேண்டுமென்ற அவசியம் இல்லை.

P_R and Joe - fair enough.

இந்த விசயத்தில் 'அது ஒரு கருத்து' என்ற பட்சத்தில் நீதிமன்றம் அந்த நடிகையை விட்டுவிட்டது.
அதுவே, குஷ்புவின் 'கருத்து' சமுதாயத்தில் கடுகளவு தாக்கத்தையாவது ஏற்படுத்துமானால், அது தவறல்லவோ...

இப்போ, சினிமாவில் புகைபிடிக்கும் காட்சி தவிர்க்கப் பட வேண்டும் என்று கோஷம் போடுகிறார்களே, அது போல ஆகிவிட்டது இதுவும்...

[sivank]

I read a very disgusting thing in the german newspapers yesterday and it is nagging me to hell.

A woman of 40 who is suffering from PVS(Permanent vegetative state, a sort of wake coma)and lying in this state for atleast 2 years was found 5 months pregnant. How can some one be so ruthless and heartless to rape a person in such state. Now the debate is going on whether the pregnancy should be terminated or not.

I simply wish that the culprit could be found through DNA analysis and castrated without any sort of anasthesia

[NOV]

I think all rapists should be castrated without any second thought.

[PatchyBoy]

I read through all the posts and somehow get this very funny feeling that pre-marital sex is OK, as long as we do not openly express support.

The typical Indian Culture in all its glory - it is OK to do, but not OK to talk about it.

:banghead: :banghead:

Rajan

[thamiz]

I read through all the posts and somehow get this very funny feeling that pre-marital sex is OK, as long as we do not openly express support.

The typical Indian Culture in all its glory - it is OK to do, but not OK to talk about it.

:banghead: :banghead:

Rajan

Dont believe your feelings!They might be misguiding you! :lol:

[thamiz]

I am sure few of u would not agree with me, when I say, in the name of "attacking the kushbooites and the anti cultural mass", folks who wanna preserve the culture goes lil beyond 'cultural and clean way to express or talk'. There are only very few exceptions ...sad.

I better be prepared to get replies talking on "injection pains...but it cures" or "mullai mulaal edukkanam" examples.

very sad.

I think you and few others are getting a wrong perception (on purpose?) that people who disagree with Kushboo's statement are all supporting violent attack on her! That aint TRUE!

[thamiz]

This debate is not about whether something is right-or-wrong. It is about what should be dictated by law ? Where do we draw a line ?
Really?

What about the judgment/verdict by the judges?

Is that about right or worng or it is for having fun just like your posts here? :lol:

I thought the whole discussion started right from the judges' verdict as RIGHT or WRONG :lol:

I guess you got lost as you are having too much fun! :roll:

[P_R]

This debate is not about whether something is right-or-wrong. It is about what should be dictated by law ? Where do we draw a line ?
Really?

What about the judgment/verdict by the judges?

thamiz, the judgement meant: "the law has no business here. Pre-marital sex is not illegal". The law refused to dictate morality in this particular case.

This is as pertinent as it can be possibly get. Nevertheless I am having fun.

The debate on whether the judgement is RIGHT or WRONG - is for some reason being seen as whether pre-marital sex is right and wrong. Perhaps anyone who lauds the judgement is seen as a reckless libertine advocating for some universalization of debauchery. This leap is exactly what I find amusing :lol2:

[pavalamani pragasam]

If the court had stopped with just passing the judgement about the legality of the wonderful person's wonderful statements one would have had nothing to complain besides silently concluding the corrupt levels of money power. But the court went beyond limits of propriety, responsibility and dignity by wantonly, flippantly teasing, deriding the complainants with atrocious quotes and posers. Just unpardonable. The court has a dignity to maintain as a wing of the large country's governing body. It cannot afford to cast such careless, irresponsible, indecent comments. Utterly unjustifiable and shameful! Just as the blogger had rightly pointed out we care least about the acts of C.Sundar's family- wife, daughters and all- I can never forget my anger when I read very long ago in Kumudam about Gavaskar's interview of what a responsible parents he and his wife were by placing condoms in the shelf of their teenage son.

The glitterati is taking the general public as easy target for their fun games as some of the participants in this thread are doing! This is a serious matter that is being discussed and perverse arguments cannot change the seriousness of the issue or daunt the concerned members- be they called talibans, moral police or samooga aarvalarkaL- to back away from their strong convictions by all such diverting, deliberate shooting at a tangent techniques.

[padmanabha]

Today several bombs were detected from the Kannur graveyard North Kerala. They were concealed in the concrete tombs. :huh:

The police neutralized all except a couple of bombs.

What is happening to our people? :think:

[thamiz]

app-engine!

You are right, it is not worth wasting my time with some people here.

I deleted the contents and keep off with some hubbers! :D

[app_engine]

என் வாய்க்கு (இந்த இழையைப்பொறுத்த மட்டில்) பூட்டு
:-)

Well, time to unlock :-)

thamizh :shock:

என்னங்க இப்படி சூடாயிட்டீங்க, பொறுமை, பொறுமை!

நீங்கள் இப்படிப்பிரதிபலிப்பதன் மூலம் மறைமுகமாக உங்களுக்கே தாம் தீங்கு செய்கிறீர்கள் :-(

முதலாவது கேள்வி - இந்தக்குஷ்பு அம்மையார் எப்போது தமிழ்ப்பண்பாட்டின் "அதிகாரப்பூர்வ விமர்சகர்" ஆயித்தொலைந்தார்? ஏன் இவருக்கு இவ்வளவு முக்கியத்துவம்?

அவரது அரைவேக்காட்டுப்பிதற்றல்களுக்கு அதீத முக்கியத்துவம் கொடுத்து, அனாவசியமான பிரதிபலிப்புகள் செய்ததால் தானே? "அவ கெடக்கா வெத்து வேட்டு, நாம யாரு, நம்ம வரலாறு என்ன, பண்பு என்ன, ஒழுக்கம் என்ன"ன்னு நம்வழியில் போய்க்கொண்டிருந்தாலே போதுமாக இருந்தது.

அரசியலில் புகழ் பெறுவதற்காக சில விஷமிகள் செய்த வலைக்குள் பொதுமக்கள் ஏன் விழ வேண்டும்? (ஒரு விதத்தில் இவங்க எல்லோரும் இன்னும் இந்த அம்மையாருக்கு மனதில் ஒரு கோயில் வச்சிருக்காங்களோ?)

பச்சையாகச்சொல்லப்போனால், இந்த அம்மாவுக்குக்கோயில் கட்டுனவனுக்கும், இவுங்க கருத்தை எதிர்த்து சண்டை போடுறவுங்களுக்கும் ஒரு வித்தியாசமும் கிடையாது. ரெண்டு பேரும் தேவையில்லாமல் இவருக்கு முக்கியத்துவம் கொடுக்குறாங்க :-(

Please save your energy for more important things in life :-)

[thamiz]

app-engine!

anyway, I deleted the contents of my last post and modified and am off to this thread! Thanks for your concern. I should care less about this issue and the open-minded kuhsboo worshippes! :D

[app_engine]

நன்றி, தமிழ்!

அடுத்து, பவளமணி அவர்களின் கருத்தான



The court has a dignity to maintain as a wing of the large country's governing body. It cannot afford to cast such careless, irresponsible, indecent comments. Utterly unjustifiable and shameful!

மிகச்சரியானது.

ஏற்கனவே ஒரு கேனத்தனமான கேஸு (அதையெல்லாம் கீழேயே "நேரத்தைப்பாழாக்காதீர்கள்"ன்னு திட்டித்தூரப்போடாதது பெரிய அசிங்கம்.)

சரி, அவங்க பண்ணின தப்பை இவங்களாவது சரி செய்து, இந்த மாதிரி வேலையத்த காரியங்களை செய்ய வேண்டாம்னு சட்டுப்புட்டுன்னு தீர்மானிக்காமல் இன்னும் தள்ளிப்போட்டுக்கிட்டு இருக்காங்க.

செய்ய வேண்டிய வேலை அது தானே ஒழிய, திருமணத்துக்கு முன்னான பாலுறவு சட்டபூர்வமா இல்லையா கிருஷ்ணர் என்ன செய்தார் ராமர் என்ன செய்தார் எல்லாம் பேசுவது அல்ல - இவையெல்லாம் நீதிமன்றத்துக்கு வேண்டாத திண்ணைப்பேச்சு .:shock:

கேஸுகள் மலை போல் குவிந்து, பொது மக்களுக்கு நேரத்தில் நீதி கிடைக்காதிருக்க இந்த மாதிரி திண்ணைப்பேச்சுக்கோஷ்டிகள் தான் காரணம் :shock:

[app_engine]

"the law has no business here. Pre-marital sex is not illegal". The law refused to dictate morality in this particular case.


P_R,
Out of curiosity, I just checked this news report :
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article285361.ece

Actually, if one goes by this report, the SC has to focus on whether the ex-actress was correct or not in "stating her opinion" (on anything). Or whether the tons of "criminal cases" accepted against her in the various TN courts are idiotic or not!

That should be an open and shut case, regardless of the issue being discussed :-)

Neither the HC nor the SC has done that but keep focusing on an entirely different topic :?
(i.e. of the rights and wrongs of her original statement / effects of that on public etc. Come on, who is she, Indian president? Or wife of Gandhiji to take her comments on people's morals so seriously?)

I think I'll never understand our judicial system...These fellows simply enjoy wasting public money, while doing nothing worthwhile to real victims of various crimes in the society!

[app_engine]

The apex court made the observation while reserving its judgement on a special leave petition


தள்ளிப்போடுறது / தள்ளி வைக்கிறது தான் இவங்களோட 99% நேரத்து வேலை :-(

Now, the whole media seems to get worked up on the "observation" aka thiNNaippEchchu but doesn't care about the lower courts / HC / SC wasting tons of time and resources on such a trivial matter as an individual opinion and protests to that from vested interests :-(

[PatchyBoy]

தள்ளிப்போடுறது / தள்ளி வைக்கிறது தான் இவங்களோட 99% நேரத்து வேலை :-(



Tell me about it. I lost faith in our judicial system a while ago. I was the unfortunate victim of the irony of what is our judicial system.

One time, I travelled all the way from Bangalore to Hyderabad to appear in court and was told at 10:30 AM that the judge has decided to take the day off and was given another date. :banghead:

That date came, but I could not make it as I met with an accident and broke my leg.. and viola.. the judge issues a non-bailable warrant for my arrest for non-appearance :banghead:

So much for justice.

Rajan

[Badri]

the judge issues a non-bailable warrant for my arrest for non-appearance



Eh! Rajan, appo enna, Chanchalguda-ullernthu thaan post pannureengala!

:lol:

just kidding...light aa eduthukonga!

[r2tchasi]

I think you and few others are getting a wrong perception (on purpose?) that people who disagree with Kushboo's statement are all supporting violent attack on her! That aint TRUE!

Hmmm, interesting. I thought the perception here was that people who agree Kushboo can make a statement are proponents of pre-marital sex.

Badri, :wave: !

[NOV]

:rotfl:

from making judgements on Kushboo, now we have descended to passing judgements on people posting in this thread.

nalla munnEtram! keep it up!

[r2tchasi]

Athan yeppaiyo descend panniyache! :lol: :lol: :lol: You are late, NOV. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

The news shared by sivank saddened me immensely and the "nanda' movie style justice measure is my best choice also.
After reading the newspapers this morning I realise with the globe having shrunk to a village size in this wonderful era of communications all waves and trends sweep round the globe and we have to watch, worry and wish well for the whole world as one zone with no barriers or fences across.
Today's Times of India, Mumbai gives gory details of 'US teen sells 7-year-old stepsister for sex', 'School girl abused by classmates in UK'(6 year-old British girl was physically and sexually abused by23 of her classmates of the same age).
As yet we do not have this step sister in great numbers, but will soon have with increasing divorces and remarriages.
Now with our eagerness to acclimatise/condone premarital sex and living together arrangements what are we having in store for us in the coming years?

[Sanjeevi]

If opposing Kushboo in a very big manner is one extreme, then the judgment looks like is trying to touch another extreme. To maintain balance? :lol2:

[Sarna]

The news shared by sivank saddened me immensely and the "nanda' movie style justice measure is my best choice also.
After reading the newspapers this morning I realise with the globe having shrunk to a village size in this wonderful era of communications all waves and trends sweep round the globe and we have to watch, worry and wish well for the whole world as one zone with no barriers or fences across.
Today's Times of India, Mumbai gives gory details of 'US teen sells 7-year-old stepsister for sex', 'School girl abused by classmates in UK'(6 year-old British girl was physically and sexually abused by23 of her classmates of the same age).
As yet we do not have this step sister in great numbers, but will soon have with increasing divorces and remarriages.
Now with our eagerness to acclimatise/condone premarital sex and living together arrangements what are we having in store for us in the coming years?

Feb 14, 2012 - news

1. A guy was caught when raping a 20 year young girl's dead body

2. 4 guys were caught while raping robo-girl

3. 8 year school boy was sexually abused by three 40years madhikka thakka mens

[joe]

:fatigue: :yessir:

[Badri]

Hi A.R!!!!

How are you? New Avatar, name?

The unnecessary focus on Kushboo and her personal, though equally unnecessarily publicised views have unfortunately dragged dirt up!

People against her expressing such views were concerned about the culture decline.

Avanga atha pesaama vittiruntha, it would have been just another person trying to make some sensational statement!

Atha viduaama, mela mela protest panna, SC varaikkum poi...ippo, even those who didnt think about it have been forced into thinking about it!

Enna kodumai ithu!

Summa iruntha sangu, thaan!

[P_R]

[tscii:3f20335fa0]
Actually, if one goes by this report, the SC has to focus on whether the ex-actress was correct or not in "stating her opinion" (on anything). Or whether the tons of "criminal cases" accepted against her in the various TN courts are idiotic or not!

That should be an open and shut case, regardless of the issue being discussed :-)

Neither the HC nor the SC has done that but keep focusing on an entirely different topic :? app, we both agree that the cases wasted precious judiciary time. The line argument the counsel was making was: her comments promoted 'perceived immoral activities'. In comprehensively dismissing them thus, the court has set a strong precedent. Next time if someone makes statements people won't go knocking on the doors of the judiciary because it is clear it is not a punishable offense.
At the most it is a personal view. How is it an offence? Under which provision of the law?” There endeth the case !
I would have liked it if those who filed the cases were fined and made to bear court expenses. A pity that wasn't done.[/tscii:3f20335fa0]

[P_R]

If the court had stopped with just passing the judgement about the legality of the wonderful person's wonderful statements one would have had nothing to complain besides silently concluding the corrupt levels of money power.

Oh ! So even if the SC had just dismissed the case saying there was no legal ground to punish, it would still be because of corruption !? i.e. if there was 'justice' in the judiciary, Kushboo should've been imprisoned for her statements. Is it ?

[Plum]

Even more than the impassioned pleas against Khushboo's statement, what I find really <amusing/disturbing/annoying - depending on my mood> is that even those who consider the discussion on it a waste of time are questioning the locus standi of Khushboo to comment on "Tamil Culture". Well, she has as much locus standi as us. Oh yeah, அது ஒரு கருத்து. It is as valid as yours or mine.

Personal attacks on her, on the basis of her thoughts on this issue - implications that she is somehow "morally bankrupt" are mere holier-than-thou stances. And that blogger posting a kavarchi still of Khusboo and implicating that the still discredits any thoughts she might have on pre-marital sex - that only shows the blogger in bad light.


I am reminded of the story of the munivar and the pros...ute.
p.s; My signature is a coincidence - not created after the discussion on this issue.

[thriinone]

இது போன்ற விவாதங்களில் வார்த்தைகள் தீவிரமும் அமிலத்தன்மையுமே அதிகரிக்கின்றது. ப்ளம் அவர்கள் சொல்வது போல, எந்த ஒரு நடிகையைப் பற்றிய கவர்ச்சிப்படங்களும் தேவைக்கு அதிகமான வார்த்தைப் பிரயோகங்களும், எழுதுபவரின், அல்லது எழுத்தின் கலாச்சாரத்தை பரை சாற்றுகிறது.

கலாச்சாரம் என்பது உடலுறவு சம்பந்தபட்டது மட்டுமே அன்று. அளவான, அழகான, இதமான, நல்ல, பேச்சும், செய்கையும், சிந்தனையும், செயல்களும் சேர்த்தே ஒட்டுமொத்த கலாச்சாரம் ன்னு ஆகும்.

இதன் படி பார்த்த கலாச்சாரம் எங்கயோ எப்பயோ பல பேர்கிட்டயும் காணாம போச்சு. எதை வச்சுகிட்டு, குய்யோ முய்யோன்னு கத்திகிட்டும் பேசிகிட்டும் இருக்கோம் ன்னு தெரியல.

[PatchyBoy]

A very wild thought - there have been innumerable movies where some girl gets pregnant before marriage. How come the same cultural advocates did not move the court to ban such movies?

If Kushboo made a statement for publicity - she got it. I can imgine her reading this thread and laughing to herself about how gullible the common man is :)

Rajan

[Plum]

Kushboo made a statement for publicity - and she got it
I find the absolute certainty of this judgement quite surprising - how do we know? It might be her view. Dont we all feel passionate about certain views of ours which runs contrary to that of the majority around us?

It might have been for publicity but that is only a guess.

[Plum]

இது போன்ற விவாதங்களில் வார்த்தைகள் தீவிரமும் அமிலத்தன்மையுமே அதிகரிக்கின்றது. ப்ளம் அவர்கள் சொல்வது போல, எந்த ஒரு நடிகையைப் பற்றிய கவர்ச்சிப்படங்களும் தேவைக்கு அதிகமான வார்த்தைப் பிரயோகங்களும், எழுதுபவரின், அல்லது எழுத்தின் கலாச்சாரத்தை பரை சாற்றுகிறது.

கலாச்சாரம் என்பது உடலுறவு சம்பந்தபட்டது மட்டுமே அன்று. அளவான, அழகான, இதமான, நல்ல, பேச்சும், செய்கையும், சிந்தனையும், செயல்களும் சேர்த்தே ஒட்டுமொத்த கலாச்சாரம் ன்னு ஆகும்.

இதன் படி பார்த்த கலாச்சாரம் எங்கயோ எப்பயோ பல பேர்கிட்டயும் காணாம போச்சு. எதை வச்சுகிட்டு, குய்யோ முய்யோன்னு கத்திகிட்டும் பேசிகிட்டும் இருக்கோம் ன்னு தெரியல.

thriinone, I will go further to the extreme. I dont want to judge that blogger at all in terms of his cultural qualifications. He is free to post Khushboo's glamorous still and implicate certain unsavoury things about her - and he doesnt become morally bankrupt in my view still - but what is interesting is that if you judge him by his own standards, he is morally and culturally bankrupt :lol:

[Plum]

அதுவே, குஷ்புவின் 'கருத்து' சமுதாயத்தில் கடுகளவு தாக்கத்தையாவது ஏற்படுத்துமானால், அது தவறல்லவோ...
Sorry, அது சமுதாயத்தின் "தவறு"

[PatchyBoy]

Kushboo made a statement for publicity - and she got it
I find the absolute certainty of this judgement quite surprising - how do we know? It might be her view. Dont we all feel passionate about certain views of ours which runs contrary to that of the majority around us?

It might have been for publicity but that is only a guess.

Agreed. Post edited accordingly :)

[NOV]

Interestingly, what do you think would have happened if it was Sundar C ((Green Tamilian) who had made that statement?

I bet my last dollar that no one, least of all in this thread, would have made any noise about it.

Women are thier worst enemies I say. :lol2:

[Plum]

I'd like someone to ask MK the same question - if he answers true to his heart, my assesment is that he will say the exact same thing as Khushboo!

[PatchyBoy]

I have one fundamental question. Honestly, how many people here have actually read Kushboo's original statement?

For those of us who have not, here it is:


our society should liberate itself from such ideas that brides should all be virgins at the time of marriage. No educated man will expect his bride to be virgin at the time of marriage. But when indulging in pre-marital sex, the girl should guard herself against pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases

And here is one more quote:


I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

My 2 cents.

Rajan

[app_engine]

I would have liked it if those who filed the cases were fined and made to bear court expenses. A pity that wasn't done.

Totally agree with you!

அதை மட்டும் சொல்லி, "போயி வேலயப்பாருங்கப்பா"ன்னு முடிக்காம ஏன் இந்தத்"தள்ளிப்போடல்"?

அதே மாதிரி, எதிர்காலத்தில் வேண்டாத வழக்குகளைத்தவிர்க்க அவர்கள் சட்டப்படி எது குற்றம் / எது அல்ல என்று சொல்லுவது முற்றிலும் சரி என்றாலும், அதற்கு அப்பால் சென்று புராணக்கதை பேசுவது திண்ணைப்பேச்சு என்பது என் கருத்து :-)

அவ்விதத்தில் பார்த்தால், நீதி அமைப்பில் உள்ளவர்களுக்கும் பொறுப்பில்லை - நேரம் பற்றிய உணர்வில்லை என்பது புலனாகிறது இல்லையா?

[thamiz]

Kushboo should've been imprisoned for her statements. Is it ?

Who said that she should be imprisoned?

Why are you making your own statements and make it look like others made it?

You are manipulating the argument by claiming some unnecessary statements!

---------------

She can be warned to talk about herself and her sex life, not about others' sex life!

I am saying:


It was UTTER NONSENSE quoting God's lifestyle to human beings!

Will the law and judges quote, mahabharata and say kushboo can marry five guys at a time?

WHY NOT?

[Sanjeevi]

Women are thier worst enemies I say. :lol2:

:lol:

[Plum]

Marrying more than once is legally wrong. So courts will not say that. Thanks for your understanding.

[app_engine]

Marrying more than once is legally wrong.

There may be sub-clauses to it (certain religious groups / celebrities etc are exempt) :wink:

[P_R]

Kushboo should've been imprisoned for her statements. Is it ?

Who said that she should be imprisoned?

Why are you making your own statements and make it look like others made it?

You are manipulating the argument by claiming some unnecessary statements!

thamiz, in my post I had quoted Mrs.PP's statement. My question was based on that.

If the court had stopped with just passing the judgement about the legality of the wonderful person's wonderful statements one would have had nothing to complain besides silently concluding the corrupt levels of money power.

Hence my question

Oh ! So even if the SC had just dismissed the case saying there was no legal ground to punish, it would still be because of corruption !? i.e. if there was 'justice' in the judiciary, Kushboo should've been imprisoned for her statements. Is it ?

It was a "question" about what your stand was ? Why do you take it as a statement, much more something which I am attributing to you !

If the answer is : "not imprisonment but 'a strong censuring' would do", then great ; I thank God for these small mercies. :-)

[P_R]

I'd like someone to ask MK the same question - if he answers true to his heart, my assesment is that he will say the exact same thing as Khushboo! What is the point here ? That Khushboo is a soft target. If so, then point taken. But of course, in the Hub MK is a soft target and one must try and figure a Hub holy cow. That's a digression we can do without.

[Plum]

That and my theory that mk is a liberal trapped in the conservative environment thanks to the compulsions of vote politics and playing to the gallery

[thamiz]

Kushboo should've been imprisoned for her statements. Is it ?

Who said that she should be imprisoned?

Why are you making your own statements and make it look like others made it?

You are manipulating the argument by claiming some unnecessary statements!

thamiz, in my post I had quoted Mrs.PP's statement. My question was based on that.

If the court had stopped with just passing the judgement about the legality of the wonderful person's wonderful statements one would have had nothing to complain besides silently concluding the corrupt levels of money power.



I dont see PP suggesting for imprisonment or for hanging her!

[thamiz]

I'd like someone to ask MK the same question - if he answers true to his heart, my assesment is that he will say the exact same thing as Khushboo! What is the point here ? That Khushboo is a soft target. If so, then point taken. But of course, in the Hub MK is a soft target and one must try and figure a Hub holy cow. That's a digression we can do without.

Why this digression is allowed?? :lol:

Oh, it is about MK! :lol:

Not about Kamalahassan or Gemini Ganeshan? :lol:

[thamiz]

That and my theory that mk is a liberal trapped in the conservative environment thanks to the compulsions of vote politics and playing to the gallery

Why are you bringing up MK? He is an easy target in this forum moderated "carefully"? :lol:

Talk about Gemini Ganeshan and his extraordinary marital and love life! I am saying because he is a BELIEVER! :lol:

And you all support the love life of nidhyanandhaa and sankaracharaya and not MK? :lol:

Why do you always support one kind? :lol:

[P_R]

I dont see PP suggesting for imprisonment or for hanging her! Which is why I was "asking" instead of "stating".

[P_R]

Everything apart, one of things I have been trying to think of is a situation like this:

A- think of something vilely morally repugnant but not illegal according to the prevalent law
B - suppose someone says A is 'okay' and cases pile up
C- SC dismisses cases saying "don't bother me, there is no legal question here"

Then what would my reaction be ? I am stuck at A :lol2:

So quite truly this means I am not as truly liberal and tolerant as I like to think I am. My world isn't changing topsy turvy now that I am outraged. Which means I shall have my comeuppance years later from changes that exceed my current powers of imagination. :-)

I can never cease to wonder about the amazing clarity in Nehru's statement in a letter to Gandhi
It is all very well for the likes of me to talk about tolerance in matters of religion when I have no religion to speak of. But touch me on a subject close to me and you will find little tolerance there. After all, who can be more stubborn than you are Bapu on certain issues.

The truth is, real tolerance does not exist. What we do not value, we make a virtue of tolerating in others.

[thamiz]

I dont see PP suggesting for imprisonment or for hanging her! Which is why I was "asking" instead of "stating".

PR: I told you several times nobody is insane here in the forum to say kushboo is a CRIMINAL and that she should be punished severely!

You need to understand the difference between "mob who attacked her" and the hubbers'- who does not like her statement of generalization - point of view!

Anyway, I dont know how the lawyers asked to punish her! :) We only expected her to be warned, properly! And we dont think she is "innocent"!

[P_R]

who does not like her statement of generalization - point of view! Which as I said already is an 'expression'. Your "everybody eats meat" is itself a very good example of a parallel.


Ad we dont think she is "innocent"! adhu sari :-) Now we have to go about defining 'innocence' :lol2: Anyway, I get what you are saying.

[Plum]

Enna oru interpretation skillu :bow:

[thamiz]

There is a saying in US, Ignorance is not an excuse to get away from the law! :lol:

[rajraj]

I am saying:


It was UTTER NONSENSE quoting God's lifestyle to human beings!

Will the law and judges quote, mahabharata and say kushboo can marry five guys at a time?

WHY NOT?

One 'wise' hubber here asserted a few years back that he would not mind being Dhraupadhi because he ,as Dhraupadhi, would be licensed to enjoy different marital bliss with five different men ! :lol: This wise man has a lot of devotees . :lol:

[joe]

There is a saying in US, Ignorance is not an excuse to get away from the law! :lol:

:exactly:

But here what you have tried to prove earlier is "Law is not an excuse to get away from the ignorance"

Btw ,why sudden jump from innocent to ignorant ?
:roll:

[pavalamani pragasam]

Interestingly, what do you think would have happened if it was Sundar C ((Green Tamilian) who had made that statement?

I bet my last dollar that no one, least of all in this thread, would have made any noise about it.

Women are thier worst enemies I say. :lol2:

What chance is there of the pachchai tamilian making such a statement after his decision to marry Khusboo??? :roll: By what stretch of imagination can I think about such possibility? :confused2: And what a classic statement about women being the worst enemies of women! :clap: If I digress to make my clarifications to enlighten my esteemed friends here about womanhood I might get even banned from the Hub! I'm presently too busy making the most of our grandchildren's summer vacation - after 3 weeks in Mumbai we flew down to B'lore only last evening and I shall have little time to spend my full-hearted/throated enrgy here. Still I manage to squeeze some time to peep in and get amused by Khusboo's stills published by a 'morally bankrupt' blogger arousing righteous anger in us!!! My social concerns are getting tastily peppered by ingenious arguments and perspectives! What a bunch of perverse, mischievous, stubborn kids we look like! Great going!

[thamiz]

There is a saying in US, Ignorance is not an excuse to get away from the law! :lol:

:exactly:

But here what you have tried to prove earlier is "Law is not an excuse to get away from the ignorance"

Btw ,why sudden jump from innocent to ignorant ?
:roll:

Joe: I have said "innocent" not innocent! So you cant take the literal meaning here! :D

[Sanjeevi]

naan romba innocentungo, intha aattaikku naan varala

[thamiz]

One 'wise' hubber here asserted a few years back that he would not mind being Dhraupadhi because he ,as Dhraupadhi, would be licensed to enjoy different marital bliss with five different men ! :lol: This wise man has a lot of devotees . :lol:

I am sure Dhravpathi would feel sorry for the hubber! :D

[thamiz]

Interestingly, what do you think would have happened if it was Sundar C ((Green Tamilian) who had made that statement?

I bet my last dollar that no one, least of all in this thread, would have made any noise about it.

Women are thier worst enemies I say. :lol2:

What chance is there of the pachchai tamilian making such a statement after his decision to marry Khusboo??? :roll: By what stretch of imagination can I think about such possibility? :confused2: And what a classic statement about women being the worst enemies of women! :clap: If I digress to make my clarifications to enlighten my esteemed friends here about womanhood I might get even banned from the Hub! I'm presently too busy making the most of our grandchildren's summer vacation - after 3 weeks in Mumbai we flew down to B'lore only last evening and I shall have little time to spend my full-hearted/throated enrgy here. Still I manage to squeeze some time to peep in and get amused by Khusboo's stills published by a 'morally bankrupt' blogger arousing righteous anger in us!!! My social concerns are getting tastily peppered by ingenious arguments and perspectives! What a bunch of perverse, mischievous, stubborn kids we look like! Great going!

Take it easy, PP. :D

[thamiz]

naan romba innocentungo, intha aattaikku naan varala

சரிங்க, சஞ்சீவி. :)

[groucho070]

[tscii:c66412e368]பாவமென்றால் ஒரு ஆணையும் பெண்ணையும் இறைவன் படைப்பானா
பயணம் போகும் பாதையில் திராட்சை கொடியை வளர்ப்பானா
பாவமென்றால் ஒரு ஆணையும் பெண்ணையும் இறைவன் படைப்பானா
பயணம் போகும் பாதையில் திராட்சை கொடியை வளர்ப்பானா
ஆனது ஆகட்டும் போனது போகட்டும் அருகே வரலாமா
அருகே வரலாமா… :musicsmile: :shock: :oops: Wrong thread :yessir: [/tscii:c66412e368]

[Plum]

grouch :lol:

[Bala (Karthik)]

Enna oru interpretation skillu :bow:
:rotfl3:

[sankara70]

Why wonder if NDTV did a talk show after what the judges said on Kushboo issue.

Kushboo was one of the bench sitters in one of the talk shows in NDTV few months back.

Suddenly people talking unlawful are becoming popular.

Supreme court e solliyachu -appuram enna

What our rights movements -associations are saying? any objections?

[app_engine]

Suddenly people talking unlawful are becoming popular.


I guess this lady was already famous. :roll:

In any case, that TV is doing it for their own business. Much the same way, those filing case against her are doing for furthering their own outreach (hoping it will get them enough "business" later on).

If the so-called "rights" groups feel they need some publicity and this issue can help them (which will eventually bring in funds someday), they may take it up.

It's fun to stand away and watch (while not wasting a dime on these fellas)!

[thamiz]

Supreme court e solliyachu -appuram enna


:lol:

The same freedom of speech Kushboo had, everyone has! :lol:

SC cant discriminate and, so they will give the same rights kushboo had to others as well! :lol:

[thamiz]

[tscii:9f76cbddef]பாவமென்றால் ஒரு ஆணையும் பெண்ணையும் இறைவன் படைப்பானா
பயணம் போகும் பாதையில் திராட்சை கொடியை வளர்ப்பானா
பாவமென்றால் ஒரு ஆணையும் பெண்ணையும் இறைவன் படைப்பானா
பயணம் போகும் பாதையில் திராட்சை கொடியை வளர்ப்பானா
ஆனது ஆகட்டும் போனது போகட்டும் அருகே வரலாமா
அருகே வரலாமா… :musicsmile: :shock: :oops: Wrong thread :yessir: [/tscii:9f76cbddef]

இறைவன் இருக்கின்றானா? :roll:

அவன் இருந்தால் உலகத்திலே எங்கே வாழ்கிறான்? :lol:

[app_engine]

There seems to be no end to comedies in the country's legal system :

http://tamil.webdunia.com/newsworld/news/national/1004/05/1100405094_1.htm



டெலிபோன் திருமணத்தை முஸ்லிம் சட்ட வாரியம் ஏற்றுக் கொள்கிறது


I wonder what marriages are for - if two people get "married" over telephone :lol:

[Kambar_Kannagi]

மாறுங்கள் இல்லை மாற்றப்படுவீர்கள் புரோகிதர்களே...

http://priyamudanvasanth.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_06.html

[pavalamani pragasam]

:banghead:

[pavalamani pragasam]

Heartening to hear the voice of sanity around the world:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/op/index.htm
The Hindu's Open Page today made my day! :D

[P_R]

Mrs.PP you may also be interested in the Magazine lead article.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Please be more specific!

[P_R]

Please be more specific!The Hindu magazine lead article was also about the judgement. (http://www.hindu.com/mag/2010/04/18/stories/2010041850010100.htm)

[ajithfederer]

Camaaan ya :yes:

JK, The first para was thoroughly interesting to read :).


Please be more specific!The Hindu magazine lead article was also about the judgement. (http://www.hindu.com/mag/2010/04/18/stories/2010041850010100.htm)

[pavalamani pragasam]

An extraordinarily hectic Sunday of too many visitors-expected and unexpected- kept me on my toes, no time to go through the paper fully- I snatched just enough time to go through my routine cwd puzzle and was attracted by the open page's article which caught my eye.
Now after going through the article PR mentioned I care least if I had not read it at all. Such high-sounding, hyped, sensational examples cited can only be pooh-poohed by the likes of me!!! As the sane voice I drew attention to said this is just an exception rather than the rule in our country today and it is unwise to embolden the young generation to throw all sense to the air!!!
The paper has to sell! Rat race! So catering to all sorts of people! With such wanton discrimination of highlighting pririty too! Itself a shame! :huh:

[joe]

why always shame ? watch this http://vimeo.com/9419926
In another angle ,it is shame that few individuals attempting what the govt suppose to do.

[Sanjeevi]

இந்தியாவில் டாய்லெட்டுகளை விட செல்போன்கள் அதிகம்: ஐநா அறிக்கை (http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/news/2010/04/15/india-cellphone-toilet-un-report.html)

[joe]

இந்தியாவில் டாய்லெட்டுகளை விட செல்போன்கள் அதிகம்: ஐநா அறிக்கை (http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/news/2010/04/15/india-cellphone-toilet-un-report.html)

Matter is understood 8-)

But why the hell they compare cell phone numbers with number of toilets ..Even in rich countries number of toilets not necessarly more than number of cell phones :roll: ..illogical comparison.

[Sanjeevi]

Joe, the matter is not just comparion I believe. UN indirectly tells India should concentrate on toilets along with other growth. But anyway if we compare current sitaution with 20 years before, it is 1000% better. More because 'open space toilets' are not suitable for today's lifestyle.

[Roshan]

Joe, the matter is not just comparion I believe. UN indirectly tells India should concentrate on toilets along with other growth. But anyway if we compare current sitaution with 20 years before, it is 1000% better. More because 'open space toilets' are not suitable for today's lifestyle.

The article says the number of people who have access to sanitary facilities is considerably less than the number of people who use cell phones. I think thatstamil has misinterpreted it in the title.

[app_engine]

http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=561242&disdate=4/19/2010

When corrpution results in dangerous structures, what's the statement of minister?

"we'll get rid of these buildings- no one needs to be scared about them" :-)

[ajaybaskar]

Woman IFS officer allegedly caught spying for Pakistan

A woman Indian Foreign Service (IFS) officer Madhuri Gupta, posted at the Indian High Commission in Islamabad, has been arrested for allegedly spying and passing on strategic information to Pakistan.

Gupta is a second secretary (press information) of the IFS B service.

Sources said suspicions about Gupta had been raised about eight to nine months ago by colleagues and the mission. These were investigated by both the Ministry of External Affairs and the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW).

Gupta is alleged to have been in touch with Pakistan's secret service ISI for about a year now, sources said.

Four days ago, she was called to Delhi and she allegedly confessed to being in touch with the Pakistan agency.

The officer has been arrested by Delhi Police and sent to jail on charges of espionage.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/woman-ifs-officer-allegedly-caught-spying-for-pakistan-21066.php

[raghavendran]

Woman IFS officer allegedly caught spying for Pakistan

A woman Indian Foreign Service (IFS) officer Madhuri Gupta, posted at the Indian High Commission in Islamabad, has been arrested for allegedly spying and passing on strategic information to Pakistan.

Gupta is a second secretary (press information) of the IFS B service.

Sources said suspicions about Gupta had been raised about eight to nine months ago by colleagues and the mission. These were investigated by both the Ministry of External Affairs and the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW).

Gupta is alleged to have been in touch with Pakistan's secret service ISI for about a year now, sources said.

Four days ago, she was called to Delhi and she allegedly confessed to being in touch with the Pakistan agency.

The officer has been arrested by Delhi Police and sent to jail on charges of espionage.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/woman-ifs-officer-allegedly-caught-spying-for-pakistan-21066.php :evil:

[joe]

Woman IFS officer allegedly caught spying for Pakistan

தப்பித்தவறி இவர் ஒரு இஸ்லாமியராக இருந்திருந்தால் என்னவெல்லாம் நடந்திருக்கும் .. பா.ஜ.க -வும் பரிவாரங்களும் என்ன குதி குதித்திருப்பார்கள் :)

[Sanjeevi]

கற்பு- குஷ்புவுக்கு எதிராக தொடரப்பட்ட 22 வழக்குகளையும் தள்ளுபடி செய்த்து சுப்ரீம் கோர்ட் (http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/news/2010/04/28/kushboo-sex-supreme-court-tamilnadu.html) - Good for Indian courts and bad for thirupuvathigal

do not know where to post but posts, I meant not for the thread title

[sankara70]

இந்தியாவில் டாய்லெட்டுகளை விட செல்போன்கள் அதிகம்: ஐநா அறிக்கை (http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/news/2010/04/15/india-cellphone-toilet-un-report.html)

Matter is understood 8-)

But why the hell they compare cell phone numbers with number of toilets ..Even in rich countries number of toilets not necessarly more than number of cell phones :roll: ..illogical comparison.
இந்தியர்கல் இயர்கையை விரும்பரவன்

[Sanjeevi]

Woman IFS officer allegedly caught spying for Pakistan

தப்பித்தவறி இவர் ஒரு இஸ்லாமியராக இருந்திருந்தால் என்னவெல்லாம் நடந்திருக்கும் .. பா.ஜ.க -வும் பரிவாரங்களும் என்ன குதி குதித்திருப்பார்கள் :)

thatstamil comments section naari irukkum :lol:. But i don't think BJP can benefit if any 'try' by them that will be pity only.

[sankara70]

Woman officer caught spying for Pak

What a shame

Ava moonjiyun avalum

sahikalai

[sankara70]

Chennai based Marimuthu sentenced 81 months jail term for fraud in internet based share trading.

[ajaybaskar]

Woman officer caught spying for Pak

What a shame

Ava moonjiyun avalum

sahikalai

Appuram spyingku Aishwarya Raiaiyum Deepika Padukonevaiyuma anuppuvaanga? :-)

[P_R]

Woman IFS officer allegedly caught spying for Pakistan

These are the most hopeless cases of news.

Obviously we won't know what it is that has transpired (it is stated that India's Afghan plans were leaked to ISI by her). They will be a closed room enquiry, where she is likely to say she is being framed for score-settling. We won't know enough to form an opinion either way. :?

[thriinone]

நம்ம நாடு செக்யூலர் ன்னு சொல்லிகிட்டு நம்ம ஜனங்களே இசுலாமியர் ஆ இருந்து இருந்தா, இல்லாதிருந்தா ன்னு எல்லா பொது விசயத்துக்கும் சும்மாநாச்சும் "அப்டி இருந்திருந்தா" ன்னு மததை இழுக்குறோம். அரசியல்வாதிகள் இதுதான் சந்தர்பபம் ன்னு பயன் படுத்த மாட்டாங்களா :)

[app_engine]

http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=563137&disdate=4/28/2010

:-(

CBE engg student createed a "bad" website for fellow student and gets arrested. What a perverted mind :-(

[P_R]

Notions of social morality are inherently subjective and criminal law cannot be used as a means to unduly interfere with the domain of personal autonomy. Morality and criminality are not coextensive.
...
...
The law should not be used in a manner that has chilling effects on the freedom of speech and expression



A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular. Adlai E. Stevenson

[pavalamani pragasam]

One headline said Kushboo has the last laugh! My instant thoughts better not be posted here for personal safety!!! :lol:

[P_R]

My instant thoughts better not be posted here for personal safety!!! :lol: Don't worry: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular :lol2:

[pavalamani pragasam]

But I must save my skin! Not having grown a thick skin yet! :(

[thamiz]

http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=563137&disdate=4/28/2010

:-(

CBE engg student createed a "bad" website for fellow student and gets arrested. What a perverted mind :-(

Perverted mind? May be it will be defended as "open-mind" by some! :lol2:

I dont think we need to be ashamed of anything! just laugh it off! :lol2:

[thamiz]

My instant thoughts better not be posted here for personal safety!!! :lol: Don't worry: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular :lol2:

Now that PP's safety is guaranteed! :lol:

Please go on spit it out PP. No matter what you say, you will be saved by the "savior"! :lol:

[app_engine]

Perverted mind? May be it will be defended as "open-mind" by some! :lol2:

I dont think we need to be ashamed of anything! just laugh it off! :lol2:

Well, if one accepts evolution as the reason for origin of life, what you jocularly say is seriously true :-)

அப்புறம் என்ன நீதி, ஒழுக்கம் எல்லாம் - கத்திரிக்காய்! கொரில்லாவுக்கும் நமக்கும் ஒரே நியதி தான் - உள்ளுணர்வு சொல்லுற மாதிரி நட! முடிஞ்சு போச்சு!

(Before you jump, I'm in the opposite camp to evolution) :-)

[thamiz]

Perverted mind? May be it will be defended as "open-mind" by some! :lol2:

I dont think we need to be ashamed of anything! just laugh it off! :lol2:

Well, if one accepts evolution as the reason for origin of life, what you jocularly say is seriously true :-)

அப்புறம் என்ன நீதி, ஒழுக்கம் எல்லாம் - கத்திரிக்காய்! கொரில்லாவுக்கும் நமக்கும் ஒரே நியதி தான் - உள்ளுணர்வு சொல்லுற மாதிரி நட! முடிஞ்சு போச்சு!

(Before you jump, I'm in the opposite camp to evolution) :-)

I think a free-thinker with a spiritual mind would say "You are old-fashioned and that you need to grow up and refine your thoughts. Understand filthy minds using spirituality! " :lol2:

கலாச்சார சீரழிவுனு கத்தினால், திற்ந்த பரந்த மனசுள்ள இளசுகள் எல்லாம் என்ன சொல்றாங்கன்னா, சும்மா கெடங்க! நம்ம "முன்னேறுகிறோம்"! :lol2:

இதுவும் முன்னேற்றம்தான் னு புரிஞ்ச்க்கனும்னு நெனைக்கிறேன்! Spiritual understanding of life would help! May be nidhyandha would explain it better or Kushboo! :lol:

[pavalamani pragasam]

And how easily are we branded as moral police/brigade! :argh: Isn't there a difference between the so-called moral police and the genuinely concerned elders? :banghead:
thamiz, amma arasiyalukku varappORaanga, London-la holiday mudinji thirumbinathum announcement to the press! Soniajikku oru kai kooduthu Kushboojiyaala!!! :huh: naan eppadi bayappadaama vaayai thiRakka mudiyum? :lol:

[thamiz]

And how easily are we branded as moral police/brigade! :argh: Isn't there a difference between the so-called moral police and the genuinely concerned elders? :banghead:
thamiz, amma arasiyalukku varappORaanga, London-la holiday mudinji thirumbinathum announcement to the press! Soniajikku oru kai kooduthu Kushboojiyaala!!! :huh: naan eppadi bayappadaama vaayai thiRakka mudiyum? :lol:

If it is true, then it seems like it is not the "hindu Gods" who saved Kushboo, it could very well be a "italian catholic" with a "political deal signed" for saving her "neck"! :lol2:

[raagadevan]

Killing of Dalit father, daughter a matter of shame, says Sonia - From The Hindu (May 1, 2010)

http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/01/stories/2010050156492000.htm

[raagadevan]

It is very interesting to note how selective some of the vocal defenders of our ancient civilization, moral code and culture are on the issues that they want to be vocal about. When an "outsider" like Kushboo and an "Italian Catholic" like Sonia Gandhi say or do things that disturb our serene sense of cultural bliss, we get very offended, and become vocal telling everyone that those people are wrong. When the Supreme Court of India rules that what Kushboo stated was not criminal in nature, we are upset, and argue that the judges do not know what they are talking about! When a "cultured" and "civilized" mob burns down a Harijan and his daughter to death in the presence of revenue and police officials, we either pretend that the incident did not happen or it is not important enough for us to waste our time talking about. When someone wants to discuss the comments of a visitor to India about the poor public sanitation conditions in India, that person is taken to task for quoting a "foreigner" who does not know anything about our great Indian civilization and culture. When our own Suhasini makes statements supporting Kushboo, is taken to court for saying what she said, and the court decides that what she said was not criminal in nature, we either pretend that we do not hear that or do not want to comment about that.

I have tried to stay off the discussions on such subjects, but just could not help making these observations. My posting is not aimed at offending or upsetting any of the esteemed participants of this forum.

[app_engine]

raagadevan,
Please check my comment in another thread on this.

If you're visiting Detroit someday (or me visiting your place) we need to have a session with lot of kuppies to boil over such.

Hub isn't the place :-(

[thamiz]

When a "cultured" and "civilized" mob burns down a Harijan and his daughter to death in the presence of revenue and police officials, we either pretend that the incident did not happen or it is not important enough for us to waste our time talking about.

Who is that "WE" here? :roll:

We need to lynch the animals who did that crime! That is the feeling we all get! :evil:

I dont think any of us have difference in opinion in this issue!

[Surya]

It is very interesting to note how selective some of the vocal defenders of our ancient civilization, moral code and culture are on the issues that they want to be vocal about. When an "outsider" like Kushboo and an "Italian Catholic" like Sonia Gandhi say or do things that disturb our serene sense of cultural bliss, we get very offended, and become vocal telling everyone that those people are wrong. When the Supreme Court of India rules that what Kushboo stated was not criminal in nature, we are upset, and argue that the judges do not know what they are talking about! When a "cultured" and "civilized" mob burns down a Harijan and his daughter to death in the presence of revenue and police officials, we either pretend that the incident did not happen or it is not important enough for us to waste our time talking about. When someone wants to discuss the comments of a visitor to India about the poor public sanitation conditions in India, that person is taken to task for quoting a "foreigner" who does not know anything about our great Indian civilization and culture. ( :lol: ) When our own Suhasini makes statements supporting Kushboo, is taken to court for saying what she said, and the court decides that what she said was not criminal in nature, we either pretend that we do not hear that or do not want to comment about that.

:thumbsup: :D



When a "cultured" and "civilized" mob burns down a Harijan and his daughter to death in the presence of revenue and police officials, we either pretend that the incident did not happen or it is not important enough for us to waste our time talking about.

Who is that "WE" here? :roll:

We need to lynch the animals who did that crime! That is the feeling we all get! :evil:

I dont think any of us have difference in opinion in this issue!

It's not just the case of a Harijan being burnt! I don't think he was talking abt the persecution of a section of people. Anyone who is burnt must be treated with the same sympathy and anger! Be it, A Harijan, A Victim at the Godhra train Burning, Graham Stains, or the hacking of a Hindu Makkal Katchi leader in Madurai a couple years back. Which wing of politics the subject belongs to is irrelevant. Which Indian Social Status the subject belongs to is also Irrelevant. :)

If anything, India's Cultural Identity should rest on being Compassionate and Welcoming, (Credited to Gandhi's Movement which got the World's Attention. If u r talking abt India's "Pre-Gandhi" Cultural Identity, then it's just a question of "How Far Back Do You Want To Go?" Indian Culture has existed for thousands of years, and a lot of things have changed in the course of time before as well.) India's Democratic Identity should rest on implementation of democratic Rights like "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom Of Expression."

Both of these identities are destroyed when Kushboo is faced with the kind of treatment that she got for her opinions. Calling her an outsider just makes things a lot worse! Same thing goes for Sonia (I'm not gonna call her "JI" :P )

Just because these ppl are "outsiders", doesn't make their Opinions any less Important, or any more right or wrong than any "insider's" Opinion. :) It's a freaggin opinion for crying out loud!!! :curse: :P

[thamiz]

Surya: What are you up to? :D


I don't think he was talking abt the persecution of a section of people.

He was telling that there are more serious issues like murder but we are discussing about "less-serious issues" and ignore or care less about issues which we really should be ashamed of.

[Surya]

Thamiz: Sup. :D On leave for the past few days, which is good, I'm Hubbing more now! :D What abt u? Long Time! :D



He was telling that there are more serious issues like murder but we are discussing about "less-serious issues" and ignore or care less about issues which we really should be ashamed of.

Exactly, so would you have the same reaction for the other things mentioned by me in the post? The victims in the train etc. :) :twisted: (Step Into my Web)

[Punnaimaran]

நமது முற்போக்காளர்களுக்காக......

Sat, May 1 12:35 PM
London, May 1 (ANI): A 72-year-old granny and her own grandson are set to have a baby, according to reports.

Pearl Carter, from Indiana, is reportedly having an incestuous affair with her 26-year-old grandchild Phil Bailey, reports The Sun.

And she's now using her pension to pay 54,000 dollars to a surrogate mother so they can have a child, say reports in New Idea magazine in New Zealand.

Pearl said: "I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion. I am in love with Phil and he's in love with me. Soon I'll be holding my son or daughter in my arms and Phil will be the proud dad."

Phil is the son of Pearl's daughter Lynette Bailey - who the pensioner put up for adoption when she was just 18, the magazine reported. When Lynette died, Phil tracked down his long lost gran and they started their relationship.

Pearl told New Idea: "From the first moment that I saw him, I knew we would never have a grandmother-grandson relationship. For the first time in years I felt sexually alive."

Pearl said: "I called Phil into my bedroom, sat him on the bed, and then I leant over and kissed him. "I expected rejection but instead he kissed me back."

Phil revealed to the magazine: "I wanted to kiss her there and then. My feelings were overwhelming. "I love Pearl with all my heart. I've always been attracted to older women and I think Pearl is gorgeous. Now I'm going to be a dad and I can't wait. Yes, we get laughed at and bullied when we go out and kiss in public but we don't care. You can't help who you fall for."

Pearl said: "I am finally going to be a mum and not forced to give up my child. Phil's going to be a great dad. I never in a million years thought at 72 I'd be 'pregnant' and in love with my grandson. I make no apologies and I believe God's given me a second chance."



http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100501/882/twl-granny-72-having-a-baby-with-her-gra.html

[pavalamani pragasam]

இந்த கன்றாவி என் கண்ணுலயும் பட்டுச்சி! :banghead:

[dev]

நமது முற்போக்காளர்களுக்காக......

Sat, May 1 12:35 PM
London, May 1 (ANI): A 72-year-old granny and her own grandson are set to have a baby, according to reports.

Pearl Carter, from Indiana, is reportedly having an incestuous affair with her 26-year-old grandchild Phil Bailey, reports The Sun.

And she's now using her pension to pay 54,000 dollars to a surrogate mother so they can have a child, say reports in New Idea magazine in New Zealand.

Pearl said: "I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion. I am in love with Phil and he's in love with me. Soon I'll be holding my son or daughter in my arms and Phil will be the proud dad."

Phil is the son of Pearl's daughter Lynette Bailey - who the pensioner put up for adoption when she was just 18, the magazine reported. When Lynette died, Phil tracked down his long lost gran and they started their relationship.

Pearl told New Idea: "From the first moment that I saw him, I knew we would never have a grandmother-grandson relationship. For the first time in years I felt sexually alive."

Pearl said: "I called Phil into my bedroom, sat him on the bed, and then I leant over and kissed him. "I expected rejection but instead he kissed me back."

Phil revealed to the magazine: "I wanted to kiss her there and then. My feelings were overwhelming. "I love Pearl with all my heart. I've always been attracted to older women and I think Pearl is gorgeous. Now I'm going to be a dad and I can't wait. Yes, we get laughed at and bullied when we go out and kiss in public but we don't care. You can't help who you fall for."

Pearl said: "I am finally going to be a mum and not forced to give up my child. Phil's going to be a great dad. I never in a million years thought at 72 I'd be 'pregnant' and in love with my grandson. I make no apologies and I believe God's given me a second chance."



http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100501/882/twl-granny-72-having-a-baby-with-her-gra.html

:roll: :banghead: :sigh2:

[sathya_1979]

Kamman yaar, whats wrong in this? Two grown ups decided and did something which they liked. Who are we to interfere in their private affairs? :D This is an ADVANCED society u know.

[Surya]

I Feel Sorry for that Kid!! Wonder how his health's gonna be. :sigh:

Pearl is probably going to die in labor.

:lol: I guess therez gonna be plenty of consequences for this bizarre and slightly nauseating love story. :roll:

[Surya]

But saying or thinking that liberal would be okay with this is the equivalent of "Cultured People" being branded as Seniks who go around lynching youngsters on Valentine's Day. :thumbsup: :smokesmirk:

[sathya_1979]

Liberals - Joker - No Rules
Conservatives - A hard Batman - Schemer with lots of intense and far more rules to monitor people each and every moment.
What do we need? A Balanced Batman? Joker?

[Surya]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! That Depends Mr. Law & Order....In a 'Nazi'-Like Facist Society, A Joker is the need of the Hour! Someone who causes Anarchy to destroy the Established Order. Not someone who "Monitors people each and every moment!"

But in a Free Society, where People are free, It's better to be the Batman.... If it is a free society, A Joker wouldn't be Necessary, he's would hence forth, disappear. Considering that we both are using a Free Society as our Objective. :huh: But For a free Society, battle is essential to establish superiority over those who "have intense and far more rules to monitor people each and every moment."

Catch my Drift?

[sathya_1979]

Thats a catch! The problem is who will guard the guards or monitor the monitors.

[Surya]

That's why it's a Loosing Battle! :twisted:

[sathya_1979]

But the implications are far too dangerous! It's like driving without brakes and roadsigns / signals. Nobody would want to be in such a mess.

[sathya_1979]

IMO having couple of more signals to ensure a safer drive is always better than having no signals at all to facilitate faster free drive.

[Surya]

IMO having couple of more signals to ensure a safer drive is always better than having no signals at all to facilitate faster free drive.

Driving is something that needs to go exactly as planned, Life isn't. Infact, it's the unplanned things that makes life worth living. :)

[Surya]

IMO having couple of more signals to ensure a safer drive is always better than having no signals at all to facilitate faster free drive.

We not asking for a no signal road, we're just asking for a faster Carpool Lane. :D

I'm not talking abt a lawless land. :notthatway: I'm talking abt a land where people are free to live their lives the way they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

[sathya_1979]

IMO having couple of more signals to ensure a safer drive is always better than having no signals at all to facilitate faster free drive.

We not asking for a no signal road, we're just asking for a faster Carpool Lane. :D

I'm not talking abt a lawless land. :notthatway: I'm talking abt a land where people are free to live their lives the way they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else.
But, the problem raised by the most of the advocates of liberal society is "Who will frame the laws and how frequently they shud get revised / updated". Free Land with some amount of control is a oxymoron in itself!

[Surya]

So it's either live in a Society where the Masses are directed where they are to go with their life, and what choices they have to take by a "Morale Elite", or live the life of a Hippie?

There is an Enormous Gray Spot, it's not all black or white.


"Who will frame the laws and how frequently they shud get revised / updated".

Societies will Change...that's the natural order of things. People adapt to the time... That's whats going on in India now. :) But throwing restraints, and chainging a society to one thing which a group find to be "Morally Acceptable" isn't the way for a Democratic Nation. :) Rule By The People. 8-)

[sathya_1979]

Rule by the people - Explain pls

[Surya]

Kinda walked into that one: :banghead:

Damage Control:

Let the people choose their life and Destiny!

I have a question:::

If a group of "Morale Elite" tell ppl what they can and cannot do (Aside from the Judiciary System), then where do u draw the line?

We've had several Centuries of Human Rights Violation in Our Country, by following just that. (Blindly following a single or multiple groups, because they apparently know better)

Letting things change course over time is the Natural way of things.

If we go into a dark, dangerous path (A Serious Dark and Dangerous Path, one that hasn't been tested by several nations before unlike Premarital Sex or Homosexuality, or has been tested, and proven to be a Horrible Mistake), then trust me, even we, the so called "moral degenerates" will join the fight to oppose it. :)

[Surya]

Obstacle #1: If A Group Can Tell People Whats Right or Wrong based on Past Culture, then Where do you think for yourself and Make your own decisions? How would you feel if another group of people who don't agree with your views, come to power and start controlling you life through Moral Codes?

Obstacle #2: Without getting into the whole "it's my life, who are you to tell me how to live" Extravaganza, In a Free Society, People are free to do as they please with their lives, as long as they don't bother anyone else. So if that Basic Right, it taken away, then what are we? A Democracy? A Type of Moral Dictatorship?

Obstacle #3: I get that the elders don't want us to do anything bad...to ruin our lives, they are genuinely scared for us and our future, so they just want us to play safe and by the book, and that is Mighty Sweet of all of you. But life is so much more than "playing it safe" :) Every generation does things that their previous Generations frowned upon...I'm sure you guys did too. Love marriages are a big one to point at. So are Inter-Caste and Inter-Religion marriages.

[sathya_1979]

Kinda walked into that one: :banghead:

Damage Control:

Let the people choose their life and Destiny!

I have a question:::

If a group of "Morale Elite" tell ppl what they can and cannot do (Aside from the Judiciary System), then where do u draw the line?

We've had several Centuries of Human Rights Violation in Our Country, by following just that. (Blindly following a single or multiple groups, because they apparently know better)

Letting things change course over time is the Natural way of things.

If we go into a dark, dangerous path (A Serious Dark and Dangerous Path, one that hasn't been tested by several nations before unlike Premarital Sex or Homosexuality, or has been tested, and proven to be a Horrible Mistake), then trust me, even we, the so called "moral degenerates" will join the fight to oppose it. :)
Ha Ha! This is a viscious circle without a start and an end. "Let the people choose their life and Destiny!" and "have minimal or safe rules" dnt co-exist. As u rightly pointed out, the biggest problem faced by both so-called liberals and conservatives is where to draw the line and who will draw / protect that line! NIce topic to discuss and share thoughts.

[Surya]

"Let the people choose their life and Destiny!" and "have minimal or safe rules"

Under realistic Parameters. :) If a person thinks it's his or her destiny to marry a cow, it's just wrong because....well....poor cow. :huh:

And there is no question of "What if there a group of ppl in the future who advocate Cow Marriage?"

Because theres no way to finding whether the cow accepts to this 6 legged inter-species cha-cha! Where it's easy to know if the other person in a Pre-Marital Live in relationship or a Homosexual marriage/relationship is consenting or not. :P


NIce topic to discuss and share thoughts.

:yes: :2thumbsup:

[raagadevan]

[tscii:f9ec06f963]
Slain Delhi journalist’s parents arrested
(Honour Killing/Murder?)

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article420342.ece?homepage=true[/tscii:f9ec06f963]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Parents-of-murdered-Delhi-journalist-in-custody-honour-killing-suspected/articleshow/5885616.cms

[pavalamani pragasam]

Abominable!

But heartening to see more tolerance in parents these days, at least in our parts of the world! In one generation the number of intercaste, interstate, intercountry marriages with parents' consent and auspices have increased multifold in my own community!

[thamiz]

Ha Ha! This is a viscious circle without a start and an end. "Let the people choose their life and Destiny!" and "have minimal or safe rules" dnt co-exist.

Why do you need minimal rule?

What is SAFE?

And what is MINIMAL?

And who defines those terms such "what is minimal" and what is safe?

YOU?? :roll: Who are you to define that? Are you defining them for yourself or for me too?

[app_engine]

http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=564651&disdate=5/5/2010&advt=1

Karnataka minister resigns and disappears after a rape scandal shot up.

[app_engine]

http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=564665&disdate=5/5/2010

Is it so difficult for parents to know exactly where the work location of their unmarried daughter is?

That too when it's in the same state? That too in a conservative state like TN? I remember parents going with their daughters for interview, joining the job etc those days. Or at least know the office where she works.

It looks like parents are becoming too uncaring these days.

[sathya_1979]

Ha Ha! This is a viscious circle without a start and an end. "Let the people choose their life and Destiny!" and "have minimal or safe rules" dnt co-exist.

Why do you need minimal rule?

What is SAFE?

And what is MINIMAL?

And who defines those terms such "what is minimal" and what is safe?

YOU?? :roll: Who are you to define that? Are you defining them for yourself or for me too?
Thamizh, are you asking me these questions? :roll: If you can read the conversation between myself and Surya, you can understand these are precisely the points I raised. I mentioned it is too difficult to identify people who define rules, identify what is safe and minimal and almost impossible to monitor the monitors. Who will draw the line with optimal length and who will protect them?

[thamiz]

OK then, let it go :)

[thamiz]

That too in a conservative state like TN?

Are we really conservative? :lol:

[app_engine]

Are we really conservative? :lol:

அதாவது, யாமறிந்த தமிழ்நாடு :-)

Things have definitely changed over the last decade. Still, even in the west, I don't think parents are oblivious to the actual workplace of their daughters, unless they are apathetic. That is, in the case of non-Indians. Indians are certainly concerned.

I'd be still surprised that the parents haven't visited at least once their girl's workplace, which is not far-off from where they live!

[thamiz]

Are we really conservative? :lol:

அதாவது, யாமறிந்த தமிழ்நாடு :-)

Things have definitely changed over the last decade. Still, even in the west, I don't think parents are oblivious to the actual workplace of their daughters, unless they are apathetic. That is, in the case of non-Indians. Indians are certainly concerned.

I'd be still surprised that the parents haven't visited at least once their girl's workplace, which is not far-off from where they live!

I think, people those who grew up in India - brought up in a conservative culture- and visited and settled in a "liberal land" and bringing up their children in the "liberal land" are not able to understand the "culture" we have today in India!

The only conservativeness we still have there is that "arranged marriage" and "matrimony". The most big-mouthed liberal person in India who supports premarital sex and extramarital affairs will also settle for an arranged marriage -dumping the one with whom he/she slept with!

Yeah, they are liberal because they want to have sex before marriage But they are conservative too because they wont mind dumping the person with whom they slept with and doing an arranged marriage for satisfying their parents! This is the kind of "liberalness/conservativeness" I see now in India especially from the young open-minded people!

[app_engine]

thamiz,
As I said in my post, I'm not even talking about Indians in the west.

I have 2 veLLaikkArikaL in our team and both have teenage daughters. Since we often have to sit in the same team room, I'm forced to hear their deep concern / discussions for their daughters (whether they'll shock them with some pregnancy news, need to take them to this game, that show, what college course will they take, which city they'll live, getting a dormitory where boys cannot sleep-in etc, all the time).

Normal parents have concern about their children (especially grown-up / unmarried daughters) in all the "cultures".

The cultureless, ofcourse, do not care :-)

[thamiz]

thamiz,
As I said in my post, I'm not even talking about Indians in the west.

I have 2 veLLaikkArikaL in our team and both have teenage daughters. Since we often have to sit in the same team room, I'm forced to hear their deep concern / discussions for their daughters (whether they'll shock them with some pregnancy news, need to take them to this game, that show, what college course will they take, which city they'll live, getting a dormitory where boys cannot sleep-in etc, all the time).

Normal parents have concern about their children (especially grown-up / unmarried daughters) in all the "cultures".

The cultureless, ofcourse, do not care :-)

Again, you certainly are talking about the parents who are upper-middle class or not?

What about the poor hispanic and black community?

You think they think just like your colleague? They just wan tto make their living somehow. I think that is what happening with our "middle class" liberal indians today. Money ! That is all they care!

[app_engine]

And, as I mentioned in a couple of posts in "last song" thread of TF forum, here is definitely a liberal land. (I wrote there about my 17 yr old's school play where he had a lip-kiss, some eye-to-eye looking dance etc on stage with a 18 yr old beauty).

Still, there's always widespread concern / stress about curfew. Also, in every social gathering I attend with locals here, you should see the passion with which they discuss about the under-age-drinking problem (which many in TN no longer seem to care).

Ofcourse, majority do not care about spending for children's college (expensive and children are made to work / take loans rather than parents spending, which is opposite to the Indian way). At the same time, I see total anguish, rallying to support etc, almost in every case, of a child who becomes an unwed mother!

[app_engine]

What about the poor hispanic and black community?


75% of my social associations are with these people. They are always as much concerned about children as us, in my observation :-)

[thamiz]

a-e: People buy vote and win today in TN! It does not happen anywhere but in our great TN or India. We are progressing much faster than america! :lol:

[thamiz]

What about the poor hispanic and black community?


75% of my social associations are with these people. They are always as much concerned about children as us, in my observation :-)

I am really talking about real poor class here, a-q :)

[app_engine]

Well, we're not talking about people who live in the brink of the society (whether in TN or anywhere, drug addicts / criminals etc). Such cases should not be considered when we talk about a graduate girl's parents recovering their daughter unconscious on the eve of voyage to Canada :-)

We're only talking about families -including the single parent ones, who work hard to make a living.

[app_engine]

To put it more clear, those african americans / hispanics whom I associate with here in Detroit - none of them are college grads or in the software industry :-) Most average $10-15 an hour.

[app_engine]

Another point, among americans in general, I see a lot more concern for children than spouses :-(

People change spouses so many times during their lifetime that they can have children / step children from multiple marriages / visitation rights this that etc.

Still, they try to take care, till the children are on their own.

Recently, a friend's step daughter came to live with him - who is in her 30's - divorced, lost her home, pregnant. This is not unusual among african americans in the Detroit area as I've seen many cases of grown-ups living with parents.

I'm often ashamed of the "they-don't-care-about-kids" opinion that I formed wrongly during my 3 month visit to California in 95-96 (which I've foolishly also shared with my associates in India) :-(

வழிப்போக்கனாக இல்லாமல், உடன் வாழ்ந்து பார்த்தால் தெரியும் சித்திரம் அதிகத்தெளிவானது.

[app_engine]

At least 10% (should be more) of a-a families in Detroit area are single-parent type, mostly the woman (men have left, got killed, in jail etc).

Not highly educated, most do menial to ordinary jobs.

Most have 2 or more children.

While we hear about child-abuse-lack-of-care etc on and off on news, such are really really a small, miniscule percentage. Since people away from such people only get to see such newscast, they believe "most" people are like that. (Well, yes, I'm also wondering the same way about TN based on a few dinathanthi news that could be extreme cases).

Only those who live and actively move around (outgoing / interactive etc) with any group of people / society can form a reasonably correct opinion :-)

[thamiz]

I find most of the AA men are irresponsible even today. Divorced single-mother is OK. Single mothers bcos of Teen pregnancy and having children without marriage are very common in that community. Lot of times they are anti-abortion believers too!

[thamiz]

Another point, among americans in general, I see a lot more concern for children than spouses :-(

People change spouses so many times during their lifetime that they can have children / step children from multiple marriages / visitation rights this that etc.

Still, they try to take care, till the children are on their own.

Recently, a friend's step daughter came to live with him - who is in her 30's - divorced, lost her home, pregnant. This is not unusual among african americans in the Detroit area as I've seen many cases of grown-ups living with parents.

I'm often ashamed of the "they-don't-care-about-kids" opinion that I formed wrongly during my 3 month visit to California in 95-96 (which I've foolishly also shared with my associates in India) :-(

வழிப்போக்கனாக இல்லாமல், உடன் வாழ்ந்து பார்த்தால் தெரியும் சித்திரம் அதிகத்தெளிவானது.

I am not saying everybody is like that. Look at even Obama! He was brought up only by his mom!

[app_engine]

I find most of the AA men are irresponsible even today. Divorced single-mother is OK. Single mothers bcos of Teen pregnancy and having children without marriage are very common in that community. Lot of times they are anti-abortion believers too!

Sadly, it is true. However, you may notice that the "available" parent still cares for that child and tries to support within whatever little means she has. (Tries to get whatever gov help that can be arranged etc).

I know of a lady who had three children each with a different last name (all-without-marriage) but your should see how she tries to protect her children! The first one, a girl, recently got married and the other two are now grown-ups living with the mom and the mother spends almost all her non-working time for them!

[pavalamani pragasam]

Our daughter living in the US for the past few months told me the other day about the extreme priority given to children there and how strictly they are safegaurded. She added jokingly the advantage of continuing to talk in Tamil unlike many natives who switch over to English even to converse among themselves is she can freely admonish her very mischievous 2nd son,'veettukku vaa, unakku nalla veLu irukku!' without fear of herself being put behind the bars for cruelty against a child!

[Surya]

The only conservativeness we still have there is that "arranged marriage" and "matrimony". The most big-mouthed liberal person in India who supports premarital sex and extramarital affairs will also settle for an arranged marriage -dumping the one with whom he/she slept with!

:rotfl: And will advocate for hours and hours for indian culture a few years later. :lol2:

So there actually are no conservatives or liberals in india....is that what ur saying?


Yeah, they are liberal because they want to have sex before marriage But they are conservative too because they wont mind dumping the person with whom they slept with and doing an arranged marriage for satisfying their parents!

I'm not sure u know what "Liberal" or "Conservative" Actually Means....:?

[Surya]

I find most of the AA men are irresponsible even today. Divorced single-mother is OK. Single mothers bcos of Teen pregnancy and having children without marriage are very common in that community. Lot of times they are anti-abortion believers too!

Oppression has a Lasting Effect. Eg: If Generation #1 is Oppressed, the effects of that will last until Generation #4 in one way or the other. That's how Oppression works. Even though there isn't any Visible Oppression of the AA Man, the effects of it have lasted so long. When families have a history of Criminal Activity, it's most likely to continue to the next generation. Kids Imitate very well...

The Criminal Life was forced upon these people due to several centuries of oppression, and those Criminal Activities have been kept up until now. Same thing goes for things like Drug Use and Alcoholism.

And this is a Vicious Cycle because of so many things. For Eg: The schools which have a predominantly black population get worse and worse every year because of lack of Funding. The Govt increases funding to schools which prove themselves, so Rocklin High (The HS I went to) gets a new Swimming Pool, Tennis Courts, Broadband Internet, and 4 ADDITIONAL Computers to every classroom.

Where as Richmond High (Which had a majority of Blacks and Hispanics) lost it's Library due to Govt Cuts, because of lack of performance or something! Taking the Library away further kills the chances of any improvement. Also Rocklin High had the latest editions of textbooks, Richmond was still usuing the textbooks from the Mid Nineties. (I graduated in 06, so it's a huge time gap.)

Some (and the numbers are increasing) are strong enough to fight against all of this and to live a good life, and hopefully send their kids to a school like Rocklin High, but most just go with the flow, and let their environment mold their impressionable minds at a young age.

Just To Be Clear: I'm not saying that the American Govt is systematically Destroying chances of improvement of blacks and hispanics on lines of racial hatred. Generally Schools that prove more Academic Worth, get more funding as an encouragement. That's what I was talking abt.