World Cricket II

[P_R]

the usual sappakkatu from the Eng pundits would be if not for them these mercenaries would never get to play test cricket..whtya reasoning :banghead:
munkoottiyE sappakkattu-nu sollitteenga. ippo naan idhukku badhil solradhA, vitturadhA.

remember Nass salvinating at the prospect of Dockrell playing tests for Eng during Ire match in CWC'11 :lol2: idhil enna thappu. Oru 'regular' natioan aagura varaikkin, Ireland oru county maadhiri dhaanE. Imagine Zimbabwe in its pre-test days. It's a comment like that. Why is it evil?

[ajithfederer]

Ennoda post-la 1st para-la kadasi line mattum eduthu reply panringa? :x . Innoru para vai discount-la vuttutinga. Selladhu selladhu :twisted:

[P_R]

Also, who is blocking Ireland's elevation to test status?
Plum you seem certain about this.

Now, 3 situations are possible.

1) ECB is supportive of Ireland getting to Test status
2) ECB is not supportive of Ireland getting to Test status because they feel they aren't ready
3) ECB is supportive of Ireland getting to Test status because they want to keep them suppressed, oppressed and depressed so they can suck on their talent pool and live forever.

You see to be certain about 3.

Just step back and see for yourself. Ireland? Really ?
One world cup where a freak performance got them to the super six. And this world cup where they proved they were better. What are their other claims?
They should be play more games, build a team and last for more time before they are anywhere near getting test status no?

Remember how long did it take for SL and Bangladesh?
I thought Kenya was close to a candidacy then they lost their way. adhai keduththadhum England dhaanungaLA?

One country whose fall from grace you can, at least partly, be blamed on England politics is Zimbabwe. naanE example eduththu kudukka vENdi irukku :lol2:
Just imagine them going from the strengths of the Alastair Campbell side. A dream gone bust.

vittA innaikkE Ireland test match viLayAduvaanga 'nRa maadhiri solreengaLE.

I will quote stuff (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/6239834/Ireland-snub-ECB-one-day-competition.html) that the Ireland team says, where they are grateful for all that ECB is doing to promote cricket in Ireland. But given you have already made up your mind, you will say ellAm 'aivaas'. Irish manager-ai ECB vilaikku vaangittAn, avan oru stooge etc. oNNiyum solradhukku illai. Or favour receive paNravan, public-la paNivaa dhaan pEsuvAn. bayam. thanippatta muRaila avanukku kOvam. avan mind-kuLLa pugundhu naan pArthEn etc.


Ireland plays as a county team, till a few years back.


“We are very lucky to have England as the full member in our region. They have been nothing but incredibly generous with the opportunities they have afforded Ireland at all levels, both within the domestic competition and at full senior level, as evidenced by the England one-day squad travelling over to Ireland recently following the Ashes Test series, not to mention the other help that goes unseen, such as coaching materials and advice.

“That generosity is now beginning to pay off, and we are starting to take the stabilisers off the bike and stand on our own two feet as a country that has an improving record of achievement against some of the best teams in the world.”




Pretty Good Question. Ivvalo naal enaku idhu thonave illa
:lol:
Evil-nu mudivu paNNi paakkaNumnu ninaichchA, ippadi niRaiya kidaichikkittE irukkum.

[wizzy]

P_R athu eppadi ella Ire/Zimboks/Protea disgruntled/frustrated/mistreated players choose Eng to redeem their test dreams...oru level playing field vennma..I say let ICC auction these players in IPL ishtyle so BCCI could bid for a phast bowler/Pcb for a batsman...give and take..everyone happy going home :huh:

[P_R]

Ennoda post-la 1st para-la kadasi line mattum eduthu reply panringa? :x . Innoru para vai discount-la vuttutinga. Selladhu selladhu :twisted:
adhil badhil solradhukkum oNNum thaniyA illaingaLE. I think I have covered all the points in my response.

[ajithfederer]

P_r you are quite conveniently ignoring the level - playing field question. You still haven't answered it.

[ajithfederer]

How in the world that is not ODD???

Would you allow Saeed Ajmal play for SL and torment england for the 2 tests last month and then go back to Pak? Summa sappa kattu kattringa sir.

England has been porous in having people from the Dominion come over, all the time, no? Born in Auckland, working in Dorset, flitting back and forth type thing is very very common. Which is why it doesn't feel odd to me. It incenses Plum that people go back and forth between Ireland and England. It doesn't strike me as odd.

[P_R]

P_R athu eppadi ella Ire/Zimboks/Protea disgruntled/frustrated/mistreated players choose Eng to redeem their test dreams...oru level playing field vennma..I say let ICC auction these players in IPL ishtyle so BCCI could bid for a phast bowler/Pcb for a batsman...give and take..everyone happy going home :huh:

Disgruntled and/or ambitious people from everywhere have always gone to places like England. Had Murray Goodwin made it to the Aus national side, I'd've liked that too.
Can you imagine him playing for Pakistan :lol: Of course I see you don't find that odd.

pudhiyadhOr ulagam seyvOm 'ngreenga. yEdhO paNNunga. enakku suththamA pudikkalai.
adhunaala indha 'unnatural' immigrationai thadukkuradhukkAga oru sattam pOttu, England thannOda 'natural' immigration-ai vittukkudukkuRa oru nilamai vandhAlum, sandhOsham dhaan.

[P_R]

How in the world that is not ODD???
Would you allow Saeed Ajmal play for SL and torment england for the 2 tests last month and then go back to Pak? Summa sappa kattu kattringa sir.
Ajmal sounds odd to me.
But suppose Pak is not a test playing nation and it was always a tradition for Pak, India, SL to have a porous relationship, then Ajmal playing tests for SL when he doesn't have any one days to play and flitting back, wouldn't seem odd at all.

England remba unique situation 'nga.

andha uniqueness ozhiyaNumndreenga. I understand but don't agree.

[P_R]

P_r you are quite conveniently ignoring the level - playing field question. You still haven't answered it.
America has an unfair economic advantage in that the cream from everywhere migrate there.
Harry Potter also same problem.

idhukku mEla kondhaLilkkiRadhukku edhuvumE illai.

England, Scotland, Wales, white men from all over Africa, Australia, New Zealand ellAm oNNukkuLLa oNNu saar.
Does Holland have any Dutch SAfricans playing. I wouldn't be surprised and it wouldn't irk me either. Natural.

[wizzy]

P_R light-a racial tone eruku on clubbing mercenaries on colour :neutral: I say open the floodgates..enn entha preferential treatment on getting to choose..OZ had a ATG test team for the likes of Goodwin to get in may be if Eng had the same home grown talent on batting front then ECB would have least cared/bothered for SA/Ire/Zim players in realizing their test dreams or promoting Ire. ECB are just using these countries as a feeder system to paper over their teams cracks enbatha thaen query ;-) also with Morgon misfiring in tests would ECB allow/release him to play for his country in limited overs in lieu of promoting Ire cricket :mrgreen:

[ajithfederer]

Oh Ippo amerikkava??. Rightu vidunga :wave:

[P_R]

P_R light-a racial tone eruku on clubbing mercenaries on colour :neutral:
? White people from the colonies have always flitted back and forth. It is a long tradition- is all I am saying. Which is why I don't find it odd. I am not saying England should allow only white player. ippo Philanderukku oru thambi irukkAn. avanukku SA-la saans kidaikkalainnA, pOtri paadhukaaththu aravaNaikka koodaadhunnu naan solluvEnA :lol2:

It is in that context that I wanted to understand if there are any Afrikaaners playing for Holland.
indha payyan thennAppirikkA pOla irukkE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_ten_Doeschate


I say open the floodgates..enn entha preferential treatment on getting to choose..OZ had a ATG test team for the likes of Goodwin to get in may be if Eng had the same home grown talent on batting front then ECB would have least cared/bothered for SA/Ire/Zim players in realizing their test dreams or promoting Ire. ECB are just using these countries as a feeder system to paper over their teams cracks enbatha thaen query ;-) also with Morgon misfiring in tests would ECB allow/release him to play for his country in limited overs in lieu of promoting Ire cricket :mrgreen: Of course, who is denying this? Dorset-la nalla aattakkAran irundhA edhukku Durban-kaaranukku plane ticket edukka pOrAinga.

And now with immigration it is all the more the case. But people going from all over to England, does not strike me as odd. If Sanga had decided to settle in Eng after studies and play there (mind you he'd've played school cricket in SL, which is pretty big), I wouldn't've found that as odd either. i.e. even though SL is a test playing nation.

Cricket is merely reflecting what is happening is every field in such countries.

If India were to do it in the name of what you guys call 'level playing field' then it would seem very unnatural to me.

[wizzy]

P_R appo Md.Amir/Asif/Owais Shah playing for India would be natural immigration I suppose and you have no qualms if Sanga plays for Eng however have issues with Goodwin playing for Pak :lol: does ECB spend monies on these mercenaries from their grass root level so they get to have the first pick over other countries..these mercenaries honed/learnt their trade thanks to their parent board...ethay cape maari thanatha India panna unnatural-a?..doesn't sound natural to me :sigh2: P.S appadiya appo Eng'landu yaar aadina unnatural-a erukkumunu solunga :mrgreen:

[Plum]

Feeyar - you are getting ridiculous and ridiculous. Who are you to define "natural immigration"? WTH is traditio? If India imports white fast bowlers for another 20 years, it will become a tradition by 2037. You are exposing yourself more and more as a closet Englishman by mentality. There is no difference between the unnatural immigration that horrors you even in thought and the kepmaarithanam(hattip wizzy) going on in England now. You are just like a blind Manchester United/Arsenal supporter inventing excuses for your club's behaviour( that should hurt, shouldn't it? )

[ajithfederer]

Dialog in PP

Ivaar aadar (order) poduvaarama inthindha area-la ivvalavu ivvalo amount koduthiranumnu, naama adhai pollow pannanum!!! :rotfl2:.

[P_R]

Manchester United/Arsenal supporter appadinna enna? operation-A?


Who are you to define "natural immigration"? oru indhiya kudimagan. What seems natural to me solREn. What is there?

If India imports white fast bowlers for another 20 years, it will become a tradition by 2037. adhai neenga solradhukku munnAdiyE sollittEnE. You 'seek to build a new world'-nu. enakku pudikkAlai. If kind of developments (?!) is what it will lead to, then England will have to sadly put an end to the hallowed tradition of having players from everywhere come and play for England (just like people from everywhere take up jobs and settle down there now).

oru vELai indhiyA vallarasu aanappuRam, I may feel such things are natural. Certainly not now.
ippo nEpAlkaara gurkhA maadhiri naturalA irundhA right 'ngrEn. That's the limit I can conceive/.

But domestic airlines foreign pilot vachchukkuradhu illaiyA adhu maadhiri cricket paNNuvOm 'ngreenga. I understand, but I don't agree.


There is no difference between the unnatural immigration that horrors you even in thought and the kepmaarithanam(hattip wizzy) going on in England now There is a whole world of a difference as I believe I have explained above.

[ajithfederer]

What the devil that has got to do with the discussion here? :banghead:

America has an unfair economic advantage in that the cream from everywhere migrate there.
Harry Potter also same problem.

Of course you wouldn't.


idhukku mEla kondhaLilkkiRadhukku edhuvumE illai.


Australia kaaran Odhaipaan :lol2:
No sir. They are NOT. Commonwealth-nnu irundhaalum they are seperate COUNTRIES.


England, Scotland, Wales, white men from all over Africa, Australia, New Zealand ellAm oNNukkuLLa oNNu saar.
Does Holland have any Dutch SAfricans playing. I wouldn't be surprised and it wouldn't irk me either. Natural.

[wizzy]

P_R unga natural immigration logic padi nallaikae if Mallya/Kumble do a ECB by getting Gayle a job in B'lore/marry him to Tulu gal so he could play for Karnataka in Ranjis and as a domestic Indian player for RCB...would that be fair on other domestic/IPL teams?..Gayle like Morgan can also realize his test dreams by playing for India :-)

[P_R]

P_R appo Md.Amir/Asif/Owais Shah playing for India would be natural immigration I suppose
Owais Englishkaaran dhaanE (like Shahzad, Sajid Mehmood, Monty - illaiyA?)
Let me clarify it would be odd to 'steal' an international player. But to get someone in contention to sign-up not a problem.

This guy Anwar Ali, doesn't seem to be playing for Pakistan. Wouldn't you love it if he could play for India? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuvhZ7kbAzA
It wouldn't strike me as odd.


you have no qualms if Sanga plays for Eng however have issues with Goodwin playing for Pak Not now yA. I meant, if Sanga had chosen to make his debut for England instead of SL, I wouldn't've found it odd.


does ECB spend monies on these mercenaries from their grass root level so they get to have the first pick over other countries..

these mercenaries honed/learnt their trade thanks to their parent board..These are all the good old brain-drain arguments.
I do see that, just like people chose to go to America and England, now cricketers may choose to come to India.

But you guys are not truly proposing that, are you? You are saying 'nobody should go and play for England'. That's your ideal preference.
If that is not happening then you want them to come and play for India too. Did I understand correctly?

I disagree. Cricket 'ngradhE oru paarambariyam dhaanungagaLE.


Eng'landu yaar aadina unnatural-a erukkumunu solunga
England-ku yaar aadinaalum unnaturalA irukkAdhu. Same for Aus or any developed country. namakku oru silarai thavira yaar aadinaalum odd-A irukkum.
konjam racistAvE solREnE..oru veLLaikaaranai thiduthippunnu India-ku kootti vandhu, ivan dhaan unga opening bowler-nu sonnA semma comedy-A irukkum :lol:

btw as I write this I realized the much talked about 'Sonia is a foreigner' issue is a complete non-matter to me. I even find it quite contemptible that such a thing was made an issue at all. enakkE indha contradictionukku badhil theriyalai.

[P_R]

What the devil that has got to do with the discussion here? :banghead: andha angle-lErndhu konjam sindhichchu paarunga. Cricketers from the colonies have always gone to try their luck playing for England. What's new about that?



Australia kaaran Odhaipaan :lol2:
No sir. They are NOT. Commonwealth-nnu irundhaalum they are seperate COUNTRIES.
Born in Melbourne. Studied in Auckland, College in England. First job in Wales, second in Perth - idhellAm sarva sagajam dhaanE.
I see cricket as an extension of that.

Just to be clear, I'd say the same for Eng players playing in Aus, NZ etc. Or even if an Eng player goes on to play for SA (I can hear you say 'nadandhuttaalum' :lol:)
Darren Pattinson played for England. His brother James plays for Australia. It's not a thing of the past. avinga ellAm appadi thaan

Like Goodwin went to Aus. Neil Johnson left Zim to play for SA. I'd feel odd if England had procured them after they had become established international cricketers.
But providing England team as an option to new players everywhere, I don't feel odd about that.

If anything, the only people who should be upset are the guardians of local English talent. 'Those immigrants come here and take our jobs' :lol2:

Neenga ellAm kondhaLikkiradhu vaarisu arasiyalai edhirkkiravanga, 'party seniors, grassroots-lErndhu vandhavanga' paththi ellAm urugura maadhiri irukku. namakku edhukku andha kavalai ellAm?

[P_R]

P_R unga natural immigration logic padi nallaikae if Mallya/Kumble do a ECB by getting Gayle a job in B'lore/marry him to Tulu gal so he could play for Karnataka in Ranjis and as a domestic Indian player for RCB...would that be fair on other domestic/IPL teams?..Gayle like Morgan can also realize his test dreams by playing for India :-)
I think I gave a sweeping generalization in my last response to you. I think the lines of disagreement can't get clearer than that.
To answer this question, yes, this would be odd

Me: namma kudumbaththula appadi oru vazhakkamE kidaiyAdhE
Wizzy: vazhakkappaduththikkaNum
Me: oNNiyum vENaam 'ngREn
Flau: adhai solradhukku nee yaar..koo yaar yoo? :x
Me: oru nala virumbi
Feddy: dei dei dei...nee yaarnu enakku theriyin, naan yaarnu unakku theriyin...naama ellArum yaarunnu indha oorukkE theriyin
Paramu: :roll:

[Plum]

Dear Sir, In Cricket, the money is iN india. Cricketers now seek to come to India to make money. By your own logic, we are the First World in Cricket now. So, sir, please wake up and smell the coffeee - not only are you being ridiculously racist but also going off the logical path. Englandla money irukku, colony kaaran pORAn, aduRAn = Indiala money irukku, cricketer inge varrAn, nambalKi AAduRAn.

Your logical faculties have deserted you.

[Plum]

At the best you can say that your racist mind doesnt accept the new order. There is absolutely zero logic and nyaayam dharmam in your stance

[Plum]

And on top of it, England pretend as if they are the guardian of spirit of Cricket, mcdowell of cricket etc. modhalla "England are evil; it is just that I find it natural"-nu imposition ezhudhunga, appuRamA pEsalAm. innikku varaikkin BCCI aLAvukku ECB-ai thitti irukkIngaLA? ECB who are preventing Ireland from playing test cricket? BCCI patththi endha rumour vandhAlum nabma veNdiyadhu. ECBku clean chit kodukkaRadhu. Like Punjabis who are born White-skin-racists, you seem to be an English racist happened to born in India

[P_R]

Racist mind-A?
enakku therinja varaikkin Racism means saying Race A is better than Race B
Where am I saying anything like that?

[P_R]

doesnt accept the new order
idhu neenga enna solradhu.
naan dhaan Muralidharan kaalathulayE idhai sollittEnE.

[wizzy]

England-ku yaar aadinaalum unnaturalA irukkAdhu. Same for Aus or any developed country. namakku oru silarai thavira yaar aadinaalum odd-A irukkum.konjam racistAvE solREnE..oru veLLaikaaranai thiduthippunnu India-ku kootti vandhu, ivan dhaan unga opening bowler-nu sonnA semma comedy-A irukkum :lol:

good..appo naanga eppadi naturalize avrathu? White koodathu/Black'um serthuka koodathuna eppadi :lol2: so only option is for BCCI to conduct a Pravasi Bharatiya Divas and call all the peeps of Indian orgin from Guyana/Trinidad/Pak :huh:

[Plum]

Saying that white people playing for black countries is unnatural and vice versa is natural is also racist. if you are basing it on economoc criteria instead, then as i pointed out, India HAS the money in Cricket so per your own logic, it is natural for us to attract the anglo saxons here and get them to play for us. But one thing - if one or two such cases happen, ECB will get the rule changed in ICC - adhu dhaan their naadhari thanam, Looks like you are well in sync with that mentality, what to say?

[Plum]

Can we recruit Zadran Kapoor(or some name like that) from Afghanistan? adhu naturalA irukkumO ungaLukku? Arent you ashamed of your race-based view of this?

[P_R]

innikku varaikkin BCCI aLAvukku ECB-ai thitti irukkIngaLA?
BCCI-ai evvaLavu thitti irukkEn?
IPL-kaaga thitti iruppEn, because you know I hate the damn thing. idhukkum neenga political saayam poosalaam, oNNum solradhukku illai.
And the way it has gotten all boards to accommodate this window - yes adhai thitti iruppEn.
Would have criticized their schedule-packing, venues - idhellAm sagajam dhaanE.

Chester-le-Street-la match vaikkalainnu ECB mEla ellAm enakku kOvam varaadhu. adhu vEra relationship/expectation saar.

Gemini: Ramasamy poNdaattikkum unakkum ennadA sammandham
kaaLing: avaLukkum ava purusanukkumE sammandham illeenga




ECB who are preventing Ireland from playing test cricket?
appadinnu neenga thiruppi thiruppi solreenga. yEdhAvadhu imbramEsanOda ezhudhinA padikkavAchchum seyyalaam.
I made some points about why I find it bizzare that you expect Ireland to be considered for tests now. You can consider responding to them.


modhalla "England are evil; it is just that I find it natural"-nu imposition ezhudhunga, appuRamA pEsalAm.
oh adhukku appuRam dhaan pEchchu vArthaiyE nadaththa mudiyumA? appo kashtam dhaan.

I've told you a zillion times that, after discussions here I am more aware of Eng-Aus players getting away lightly from match referees for offences that Asians are docked more heavily for.
If I find something convincing and persuasive I do agree. If you can't even acknowledge that and perpetually start from zero when discussing this with me.
That apart I don't buy most of your conspiracy theories. 'Since, apart from KP others can play switch hit, now evil ECB has twisted ICC to scrap it' type reasoning is what I see in them.

[P_R]

good..appo naanga eppadi naturalize avrathu? White koodathu/Black'um serthuka koodathuna eppadi :lol2: so only option is for BCCI to conduct a Pravasi Bharatiya Divas and call all the peeps of Indian orgin from Guyana/Trinidad/Pak :huh:

adhuvum koodaadhu :lol:

As I said, IndhiyA vallarasu aanappuRam niRaiya pEr naturalA inga vandhu vElai pArppAnga. Korea-lErndhu koththanAr, Senegal-lErndhu siththaaLu, moldova-lErndhu mEsthri-nu. appadi irukkumbOdhu oru mixed team eduththA enakku 'unnatural-A irukkAdhu.

I am totally aware that I am sounding facetious. But I think it is a fairly simple point I am making.


Saying that white people playing for black countries is unnatural and vice versa is natural is also racist. Oh ippadiyAppatta vishayangaLai dhaan ivvaLavu naaL racisaumnu sollikittu irundheenga. konjam pugai moottam vilagina maadhiri irukku.



if you are basing it on economoc criteria instead, then as i pointed out, India HAS the money in Cricket so per your own logic, it is natural for us to attract the anglo saxons here and get them to play for us.
Yes I mean economic criteria. But not just exclusively in cricket.

See if Indian population was itself racially diverse and international, it would not be odd to have Indian cricket team to be like that.
But to have the Indian team be more international before such a thing is the case in India, atleast urban India, it would seem odd to me.


But one thing - if one or two such cases happen, ECB will get the rule changed in ICC - adhu dhaan their naadhari thanam,
I am not sure if that will happen. But if it does, you can count on my applause, first as an Indian cricket fan.

[Plum]

You are avoiding key questions. How can one have a reasonable discussion with you? Raise pandra pointai ellam "adhu dhaane natural order"-nu mazhuppa vENdiyadhu :huh: appuRam epdi nAnga solRadhu ungaLukku puriyum? Your defence mecahnism is preventing you from seeing anything that ECB does as wrong - ipdillAm racist argument vechu justify paNNa vENdi irundhAlum paNDringa appuRam unga kitta ennathtah discussion? NeengallAM Englandla irukka vENdiyavanga..

[ajithfederer]

P_r unmaya sollu(nga). Ivanuga evvalavu adichaalum thaanguvanuga-ngra dhairyathula thaane ippdi pesaringa. Vera forum aa irundha inneram ummai Boli potirupaanga. :lol:

[Plum]

Again and again, you are being dishonest and tryng to discredit my views with some clever verbal gymnastics. Sorry you are failing miserably. Cricketla ingE money irukku varrAn. maththa ellathulaiyum ingE money irundhu vandhA dhAn adhu naturalAmAm. epdiyellAm you are strething the definition of "natural"? Cant you see that these are all defence mechanism from your mind?

Where there are opportunities and money, humans seek that path. If that path leads an Englishman to India, and become an Indian test cricketer, it is as natural for a human being as natural can be. By pre-emptively calling it unnatural, you are creating a defence for your position, nothing more, nothing less. This is clearly a product of an anglophile mind designed to see nothing wrong with his "English masters". You have to seriously examine your mind for colonial prejudice.

[P_R]

Can we recruit Zadran Kapoor(or some name like that) from Afghanistan? adhu naturalA irukkumO ungaLukku? Arent you ashamed of your race-based view of this? Ashamed-A?

You are refusing to get a simple point I am making.
Forget cricket for a moment. It is quite natural to expect many SAfricans to work in England. Certainly more natural than expecting a Afghani to work in India, right?
All I am asking is for that sense of proportion and talk about this debate.

Now you can fairly say, SAfricans are overrepresented in the Eng team. I am not getting mathematical here. That way a single NewZelander working in India could 'justify' picking a Kiwi in the Indian team. But overrepresentation is their uLnAttu vivagaaram. It is for the Sussexians and Essexians to say, 'hey how come you don't pick our lads and instead pick these Saffers?'. I don't have much of a debate about that.

Now if the said Afghan plays for Pakistan it wouldn't seem odd.
Similarly if a Bangladeshi plays for India, it would be perfectly natural.

idhula enga superiority-inferiority. A mere observation of the composition of the population - avvaLo dhaanE.
idhukku edhukku ivvaLavu tungsten?

[P_R]

P_r unmaya sollu(nga). Ivanuga evvalavu adichaalum thaanguvanuga-ngra dhairyathula thaane ippdi pesaringa. Vera forum aa irundha inneram ummai Boli potirupaanga. :lol:

I really don't understand man.
England has ALWAYS had players from everywhere. It's not something that happened yesterday. Why are they suddenly wrong in doing so?
It seems completely bizzare that you are refusing to acknowledge this is a process that's been always going on (forger cricket, I mean as a society). That is not at all a case in India.

It is a fairly innocuous point I am making.
nEsam pudhusu Sangili Murugan maadhiri feel paNREn/

[wizzy]

@P_R playing peeps of Indian origin'um koodatha :lol: confuse pannreenga my lord...to reiterate I have no issues with Ravi Bopara/Monty playing for Eng ;-) What yam against is the likes of Trott/KP who have nothing in common with Eng culture and they even speak with Africans accent :lol: ended up represented Eng by taking advantage of visa rules..ethula enga naturalize/first world/multiculturalism logic eruku?

[P_R]

Again and again, you are being dishonest and tryng to discredit my views with some clever verbal gymnastics. Sorry you are failing miserably. Cricketla ingE money irukku varrAn. maththa ellathulaiyum ingE money irundhu vandhA dhAn adhu naturalAmAm. epdiyellAm you are strething the definition of "natural"? Cant you see that these are all defence mechanism from your mind?
England team England society maadhiri irukkaNum. Or atleast a variation of it, which isn't too skewed.
Same for India.
That's all my Lord.

Natural-ngra oru vaarththaiyai eduththukittu neenga remba overcomplicate paNreenga.


This is clearly a product of an anglophile mind designed to see nothing wrong with his "English masters". You have to seriously examine your mind for colonial prejudice.
Lobotomy varaikkin pOyAchchA.
btw Ireland eppadi test status-ku thagudhiyAna team, adhai eppadi Britis iLavarasar Charles sadhi paNNi thadukkuRaar 'ngra tea innum varalai.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Kanungala

Intha pAzha pOna Cricket ah vititu Pootbaal thread pakkam vanga! Flau Come support the Nazis over the victorians in th Euro Championship!

Chelsea Ozhiga :x

[ajithfederer]

Ivvalavu naal ninga appadi than pannitu irundhinga. Vaasthavam dhaan. Naan illainnu sollala. Now whether that is right or wrong is whole another issue. But all these days you guys have been abysmal and now you guys are starting to get better. Now suddenly everybody gets a wake up call and when they see the reason for your team's better performance it's mostly the Saffers who stand out.

Another sub-issue in that is the regularity in picking up players and the composition of your team. There are at-least 4/5 foreign players in your Main XI. Ungalukku appadi theriyama irukkalam but for outsiders that is a stark difference. Secondly what seemed to be a random habit in the past now it has become a regular habit (sports recruiting) and now it definitely seems very odd and concerning to other countries.

And now to the main and the obvious issue is Eng team recruiting from everywhere now has become a problem for other countries.
(i) Why because other countries are not allowed to do the same.
(II) Other countries are obviously in a handicap because of (i) and playing against good players from multiple countries is obviously a disadvantage/

You seem to quite obviously discard the above reasons which is a shock.

However, I expect this issue to snow ball in the coming years. Appo paakalam what does ICC, ECB and CA(the unholy trinity) conspire then?

[P_R]

Trott/KP who have nothing in common with Eng culture and they even speak with Africans accent :lol: ended up represented Eng by taking advantage of visa rules..ethula enga naturalize/first world/multiculturalism logic eruku?
England-la niRaiya pEr avaingaLai maadhiri iruppAinga illaiyA?
I had a hard time getting myself understood in some restaurants once when I was in England. Many of the waiters are from Eastern European countries. So much English in England!
naaLaikkE oru Berbatov, Stoichkov who have nothing to do with English culture may play for England. Why are we bothering about that? It is the maNNin maindhargaL who should bother about that. uLLoor sivasEna prachchanai adhu.

avinga team avinga oor maadhiri irukku. adhai paarththu vambadiyA naama soodu pOttukka koodaadhu. That is all I am saying.

idhai sonnA Flau kaNdabadi thittaraar.

[ajithfederer]

Ashes 2005 : Enna dhan flintoff MOS naalum Pietersen illaina ninga adhai jeichirukka mudiyadhu :bow:.

[ajithfederer]

Avanga oor karanuga edhukku kekka poraanga?. As long as their team is winning they wouldn't give two hoots about it.


naaLaikkE oru Berbatov, Stoichkov who have nothing to do with English culture may play for England. Why are we bothering about that? It is the maNNin maindhargaL who should bother about that. uLLoor sivasEna prachchanai adhu.

[P_R]

Now suddenly everybody gets a wake up call and when they see the reason for your team's better performance it's mostly the Saffers who stand out.
Oh idhu Murali-yai yEn edhirkkuraanga 'nRa maadhiri. Principle becomes problematic only when it is successful.
yEdhO anga inga aaL eduththu thOththukittu irundheenga okay. ennadhu idhu naansens maadhiri jeyikkira pazhakkam. enna aniyAyam idhu :lol2:


Secondly what seemed to be a random habit in the past now it has become a regular habit (sports recruiting) and now it definitely seems very odd and concerning to other countries.
Point taken.



(i) Why because other countries are not allowed to do the same.

Here too I am not arguing with this at all.
Let me ask a simple qn: how would you feel about an Indian team that a had a Kiwi, Saffer, Aussie and WIndian?
You, Plum and wizzy seem to consider it absolutely no different from a mixed bag England team. Or do you perceive a difference at some visceral level but still feel it is only fair that India should have that option, given England has.

If it is the latter I atleast have an understanding of what you are saying. The former is frankly quite bewildering to me.


(II) Other countries are obviously in a handicap because of (i) and playing against good players from multiple countries is obviously a disadvantage This I substantially discount. Atleast until they recruit a Lankan who can play spin :-) I don't think there are new skills that have been added to the English arsenal (if such a thing can be defined across players in the first place) which owe to such international recruitment.

[wizzy]

England-la niRaiya pEr avaingaLai maadhiri iruppAinga illaiyA?
I had a hard time getting myself understood in some restaurants once when I was in England. Many of the waiters are from Eastern European countries. So much English in England!
naaLaikkE oru Berbatov, Stoichkov who have nothing to do with English culture may play for England. Why are we bothering about that? It is the maNNin maindhargaL who should bother about that. uLLoor sivasEna prachchanai adhu.

avinga team avinga oor maadhiri irukku. adhai paarththu vambadiyA naama soodu pOttukka koodaadhu. That is all I am saying.

idhai sonnA Flau kaNdabadi thittaraar.

Saar as a cricket fanatic/custodian of the game naan ketpaen :-) ..it makes a mockery of the sport..comparing a guy working in a restaurant to make ends meet /playing for a country is a bad analogy...things can turn sore if peeps switch sides at a push of a button..quoting Vaughan when the spotlight was on Trott.



Vaughan claimed he saw the South Africa-born Trott, who has been included in the England party to tour South Africa this winter, congratulating the opposition after their win at Edgbaston which sealed a series victory in Vaughan's final Test.

Writing in his new autobiography, Time to Declare, Vaughan said: "It was a sad day for English cricket that on my last day against South Africa I saw Jonathan Trott celebrating with South Africa, when the week before he had been our 12th man at Headingley.

"I was going into the press conference and I saw him patting them on the back. It hit home what English cricket has become like."

and this takes the cake :lol2:


"I suppose you might wish Trott was a bit more English, but after such a brilliant debut it appeared we had found another high-quality batsman."

[P_R]

Avanga oor karanuga edhukku kekka poraanga?. As long as their team is winning they wouldn't give two hoots about it.
Operative word.
I would stop feeling close to an Indian team (yERkanavE romba suththam) composed of a battery of imported foreigners.
Perhaps Plum can appreciate those wins.

It'll be fun if I think about it. A full white Indian team defeating a full brown English team and Plum celebrating. :lol:

[P_R]

Saar as a cricket fanatic/custodian of the game naan ketpaen :-) ..it makes a mockery of the sport..comparing a guy working in a restaurant to make ends meet /playing for a country is a bad analogy...
adhaavadhu restaurant-la vElai pAkkalaam aanaa cricket viLayAduravan uLLoorkaaranA dhaan irukkaNumndreenga.

ennaiyE racist 'ngraar. neenga paavam saar.



things can turn sore if peeps switch sides at a push of a button..quoting Vaughan when the spotlight was on Trott. idhellAm exaggeration. Warne wasn't tough on KP as they were country friends 'ngra mAdhiri kooda sonnAinga.

[ajithfederer]

1. Naan solrardhu vera ninga puriknjukaradhu vera. Vidunga.

2. Happada oru point aavadhu othukittaruba.

3. I would feel odd but do you think BCCI would care as long as they bring Trophies. Again my point is What Eng are doing may drive other countries to do the same which is not good for the sport.

4. Yenga 2 different domestic circuits, conditions vera, velayadura batsman vera. SA fielding oru example aa eduthukonga. You guys leave others at a definite handicap.

Oh idhu Murali-yai yEn edhirkkuraanga 'nRa maadhiri. Principle becomes problematic only when it is successful.
yEdhO anga inga aaL eduththu thOththukittu irundheenga okay. ennadhu idhu naansens maadhiri jeyikkira pazhakkam. enna aniyAyam idhu :lol2:


Point taken.


Here too I am not arguing with this at all.
Let me ask a simple qn: how would you feel about an Indian team that a had a Kiwi, Saffer, Aussie and WIndian?
You, Plum and wizzy seem to consider it absolutely no different from a mixed bag England team. Or do you perceive a difference at some visceral level but still feel it is only fair that India should have that option, given England has.

If it is the latter I atleast have an understanding of what you are saying. The former is frankly quite bewildering to me.

This I substantially discount. Atleast until they recruit a Lankan who can play spin :-) I don't think there are new skills that have been added to the English arsenal (if such a thing can be defined across players in the first place) which owe to such international recruitment.

[wizzy]

P_R w.r.t identity you can't compare a sportsmen who represents a country to a blue color whose sole motive is to earn as much whilst he could and leave the country even at the first sight trouble to his livelihood.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Many of the waiters are from Eastern European countries. So much English in England!


Ithu enna Logic ?? These Migrants are not considered as English (British) unless they were born in Britain, once they qualify to be British, i.e. get UK citizenship / passport. They came under various categories like British Asians, Bristish Africans, British Orientals etc. They are never classified as British!

BTW The so called Inglees People are them selves Migrants (Saxons) from what is now called Germany :lol2:

[wizzy]

Atleast until they recruit a Lankan who can play spin :smile: I don't think there are new skills that have been added to the English arsenal (if such a thing can be defined across players in the first place) which owe to such international recruitment.

batting for starters :huh: take out/rest KP/Trott and replace it with home grown talents in Ravi/Owais and then we can see how much Eng owe their recent sucess to these mercenaries.

[P_R]

P_R w.r.t identity you can't compare a sportsmen who represents a country to a blue color whose sole motive is to earn as much whilst he could and leave the country even at the first sight trouble to his livelihood.
These are rather simplistic notions wizzy.
Do you think Trott, KP are not committed to given their all for England to win? There is no doubting their commitment. And I say that as the lone England fan in these parts. neenga ellAm idhukku kavalaippadavE thEvai illaiyE :lol2:

I would think they'll be especially motivated when playing against SA. Vaaganam kidakkaan, avanukku therinjadhu avvaLavu dhaan. Polite-A appreciate paNNAma, opposition mEla kallai koNdu eriya solluvaan pOla irukku.

[wizzy]

P_R things seem normal until the tables aren't reversed..do you foresee Trott/KP playing for their adopted country without taking in the moolah like the Lankans cricketers been doing for the past year or so :huh: appo theriyum motivation/commitment/passion et all...ethaiyum naan ketka koodatha :lol:

[Plum]

Simple q - why are you pre-emptively defending when I say that England will change rules if the boot is on the other foot? 1) you seem to be hasty in issuing a certificate now itself that "England cricket nalaththukkAga india foreignersai recruit paNdradhai rule pOttu thaduppAnga". Why can't you accept that if tomorrow wehn roles are reversed, England will change the rules just for their convenience as opposed to love for Cricket? Why give pre-emptive certificates? 2) suppose we start recruiting Zadran kapoor or someone from Afghanistan, iand England's foreign supply dries out, appavum ECB will get the rules changedngaren. Adhukkum as a passionate Cricket fan, you'Ll be happy? Adhukku enna "England are innocent guardians of cricket" reason vechurukkeenga? KEttA apdi nadakkAdhunu maindain paNNa vENdiyadhu.veto vechukittu thangalukku saadhagamaa rule paNNina naadharis mEla avLO nambikkai? Your refusal to criticise England and ECB for anything is a real real indicator. Ningallaam business classla londonla vasikka vendiyavar.. Naan kandi bccila irundhaa unga ALunga kaNNula maNNeNNai vuttu chitravadhai paNNuvEn. Soozhcikku soozhci, vanjanaikku vanjanai, naadharithanathukku naadharithanam" your guys are lucky that BCCI doesn't bother about such things. If they did, I believe Seenu mama is cunning enough to outsmart your guys. Avar priorityla idhellaam illai avLO dhaan.

[VinodKumar's]

Along with Sachin the only other cricketer who is still playing from when I started watching cricket :notworthy: and as I wished he has crossed 10k mark today :clap: Enna India kooda thaaru maara velandu appo appo kadupu kelapuvaan.

http://i46.tinypic.com/35mk2a9.jpg

[VinodKumar's]

Chanderpaul joins 10,000 club
Shivnarine Chanderpaul (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/51469.html) has become the 10th batsman and the second West Indian to pass 10,000 runs in Test matches, reaching the mark on the fourth day of the third Test against Australia at Windsor Park in Dominica.

In keeping with much of his career, Chanderpaul passed 10,000 in the midst of a desperate Caribbean fight in the fourth innings to stave off defeat at the hands of the Australians on a deteriorating pitch, moving forward from his inimitable stance to push a delivery from Michael Clarke wide of mid-on and go to 14 for his innings.

Chanderpaul reached the milestone in his 140th Test, emulating Brian Lara's feat of also passing 10,000 for the West Indies. He was congratulated warmly by the Roseau crowd and also by Australia's fielders, who all applauded once the single was taken. The 10,000th run also served to take his Test match batting average back above 50.

Earlier in the series Chanderpaul had surpassed Lara as the highest run-scorer of all West Indian batsmen at Kensington Oval in Barbados, and said at the time that he had always taken particular satisfaction from runs made against Australia, as they are always hard-earned.

"Always a tough, tough opposition and you always have to fight and it is always well to do good against them," he said. "There are always things at the back of your mind because you always want to do well.

"Against an opposition like Australia if you're doing well against them you know the world is watching. When you go against them you have to bring your A game. You can't just walk out and decide that you can play anyhow against them. You have to step up."

At 37, Chanderpaul has witnessed many barren years in West Indies cricket, but has expressed optimism that the team is showing signs of significant improvement under the captaincy of Darren Sammy and the coaching of Ottis Gibson. This has encouraged him to prolong his career, having debuted against England in his home country of Guyana in March 1994.

"We all can see it, the guys are getting better, the younger players are coming through," Chanderpaul had said in Barbados. "That's what we've been aiming for over the years, you want to see the younger players come through. Now we're seeing it and that's the future, we have to plan that way."

Chanderpaul is doing his best to support this development with his bat, again leading the averages and aggregates against Australia.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-australia-2012/content/current/story/562851.html

[VinodKumar's]

Five of Chanderpaul's best Five of Shivnarine Chanderpaul's finest Test innings


71 v Australia, Sydney, 1996 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63730.html)

On his first Test tour of Australia, a skinny Shivnarine Chanderpaul, still without a Test century after 12 games, also did not get one in his 13th at the SCG but produced a sparkling innings in a losing cause that showed his game could be about more than just accumulation. After squandering chances to take charge of the second Test, West Indies required 340 to win. The pitch was turning and on the final morning, they lost their first three wickets in the space of 20 balls, with being Brian Lara one of those three. But Chanderpaul would not go quietly, taking on Shane Warne until the "Earl of Twirl" had to be withdrawn from the attack. He eventually returned to put an end to Chanderpaul's counter-attack with a vicious ball that spun from outside off-stump to bowl him. But the "Tiger" had shown he had a sharp bite.


137* v India, Bridgetown, 1997 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63747.html)

A game that will be remembered primarily for India's spectacular slide to defeat, bowled out for 81 chasing 120 by Ian Bishop, Curtly Ambrose and Franklyn Rose in Brian Lara's first ever game was West Indies captain, also produced Chanderpaul's first Test century. Without it, West Indies would not have won. Fittingly, he was Man of the Match for a superior display of technique and courage. It was a bowler's track from the start, uneven bounce and lateral movement helping the fast men. Lara lost the toss and West Indies had to bat. They struggled against new ball bowler Venkatesh Prasad who took five wickets but he could not remove Chanderpaul. Nobody could. Chanderpaul carried his bat for almost seven and a half hours without offering a single chance. His already noted powers of concentration was taken to new heights, and for one rare occasion, his team-mates were able to convert his runs into a victory.


100 v Australia, Georgetown, 1997 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64024.html)

This was Chanderpaul at his attacking best. The Australians prevailed in this game comfortably in Chanderpaul's hometown, winning by nine wickets and there were five centuries in the match. None, however, made tongues wag like Chanderpaul's tour de force. Once again it was made in the midst of a crisis. West Indies were 47 for 4 when he replaced Marlon Samuels at the crease, and 53 for 5 when the reliable wicketkeeper Ridley Jacobs joined him at captain Lara's dismissal. It was the first day of the series on a ground where high-scoring matches and rain was the norm. But on this day of dazzling sunshine, Chanderpaul was brilliant. With shots to all parts of the ground, he gave everyone pause, stroking 15 fours and helping himself to two sixes so rapidly that he produced what was at the time Test cricket's third fastest century, off just 69 balls.


104 v Australia, St John's, 2003 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64027.html)

Chanderpaul was not at the crease when West Indies actually set the new world record chasing the highest total to win a Test match, but his second-innings century along with Ramnaresh Sarwan's 105 set up a memorable seven-wicket win at the Antigua Recreation Ground. It seemed an improbable task for a side on the brink of being whitewashed 4-0 by Steve Waugh's world champion Australians. The likelihood of getting for 418 for victory seemed to diminish even further once that breaker of records Brian Lara was dismissed by Stuart MacGill for 60 on the fourth afternoon. But Chanderpaul rarely passes up a chance to make runs on a good wicket. And this time he got sufficient help, Ramnaresh Sarwan taking the lead during their fifth-wicket stand of 123 and then Omari Banks adding 84 with him before Chanderpaul himself went early on the final morning to Brett Lee. But only 46 more were needed then.


118 v Australia, Kingston, 2008 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/319139.html)

The Australians seem to bring out the best in Chanderpaul. This knock was heroic despite coming in another loss; the hero emerging battered and bruised from an intriguing encounter with Lee in the West Indies first innings. Knocked down by a blow to the back of the helmet on 86, he was seen by both the team doctor and physio before being allowed to carry on. Straight away, Chanderpaul was back to his solid self, working the ball around with No.10 Fidel Edwards to eventually reach a century, the ovation for which all of Kingston might have heard.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/content/story/562861.html

[P_R]

Ithu enna Logic ?? These Migrants are not considered as English (British) unless they were born in Britain, once they qualify to be British, i.e. get UK citizenship / passport. They came under various categories like British Asians, Bristish Africans, British Orientals etc. They are never classified as British!

BTW The so called Inglees People are them selves Migrants (Saxons) from what is now called Germany :lol2:

idhukkum naan solradhukkum endha sammandhamum illaiyE.

Multinational nation, multination team. Thassal.

[P_R]

batting for starters :huh: take out/rest KP/Trott and replace it with home grown talents in Ravi/Owais and then we can see how much Eng owe their recent sucess to these mercenaries.

Please read in sequence


(II) Other countries are obviously in a handicap because of (i) and playing against good players from multiple countries is obviously a disadvantage

I don't think there are new skills that have been added to the English arsenal (if such a thing can be defined across players in the first place) which owe to such international recruitment.

Feddy mentioned fielding as an 'advantage' Saffers brought in. I am not too sure. Collingwood ellAm nallaavE pudippAnE.

There is nothing distinctly foreign about Trott is there? If anything his grinding is agmaark English.
KP of course is nothing like anything.

What I was denying is the claim that England was lacking in skills x.y.z that they now have because they have exclusive access to foreign talent and have thus become world beaters.


Merceneries-nu racist-A pEsaadheenga. Open minded-A irunga.

btw is there actually rule currently preventing India from doing what Eng is doing? It is sufficiently odd that India wouldn't bother doing anyway methinks.

The one point to take is what Feddy said. What was happening by itself earlier is not happening in a concerted manner. England is all out focused on recruiting, talent-spotting. Even that I would say is taking advantage of a talent pool they've always had people come from. I don't find it odd.

[raghavendran]

Chanderpaul :clap: :bow:...it takes some getting when u r in a losing team for 18 yrs...very happy for a champion batsman :D

[P_R]

Simple q
naan kEtta kELvi enna aachchu? Ireland innaikku test match viLayAda thayaarA?


- why are you pre-emptively defending when I say that England will change rules if the boot is on the other foot?
I said they will be most justified if they change the rule.
neenga pre-emptivA, highly presumptive-A accuse paNNumbOdhu, en karuththai sonnEn. No cerificate was issued to England either now or ever that what they do is for the good of the game.

All this has come from your mind.

I deal case by case. Where I believe something could have happened for cricketing reasons I state so. This runs counter to you, who certain absolutely nothing happens for cricketing reasons. Everything is a conspiracy. Brett Lee schemingly stopped in his tracks, KP is not allowed to play switch hit because he is no longer the only who plays it etc.

So anyone who disagrees is someone who thinks England is a noble defender of the interests of the game.
Bleddy fellows avainga dhaan T20-ngra karumaththai kaNdupudichchadhu.


1) you seem to be hasty in issuing a certificate now itself that "England cricket nalaththukkAga india foreignersai recruit paNdradhai rule pOttu thaduppAnga".
Underlined words are yours.


Why can't you accept that if tomorrow wehn roles are reversed, England will change the rules just for their convenience as opposed to love for Cricket?
Accept- what a word?
What an clever choice of expression/sentence

a) First of all assumes as a fact that the rules will be changed
b) Secondly, says 'England' will change the rules - thereby equating ICC and England - second thing to be 'accepted' as a fact

And anyone who says 'hmm...you think so, there doesn't seem to be enough basis for that to be such a foregone conclusion' is someone who think Eng. defends the interests of the game :lol2:

And pray elaborate the situations where Eng has changed so-nu kEttEn. adhukku badhilai kaaNOm.
To set the ball rolling, I even gave the example of one-side fielding ban rule invoked arbitrarily against India. andha maadhiri yEdhAvadhu sollunga-nu kEttEn.
Without an answer I will have to assume the examples you can come up with will be things like Murali, aluminium bat, switch-hit prevention and such things.


England having foreign players long tradition. India having foreign player no tradition.
If India try to artificially create this then and if ICC creates rules to disallow it is something I can see myself supporting.
I don't think it is that difficult to understand what I am saying.


Why give pre-emptive certificates? None issued. Refusing to join you in pre-emptive and highly presumptive condemnation does not tantamount to issuing conduct certificates. And you are the one to talk about verbal gymnastics, is it?


2) suppose we start recruiting Zadran kapoor or someone from Afghanistan, iand England's foreign supply dries out, appavum ECB will get the rules changedngaren.
Adhukkum as a passionate Cricket fan, you'Ll be happy? Unwilling to speculate, because I don't see any consistent bias in policy favouring England or England clout in ICC.

Adhukku enna "England are innocent guardians of cricket" reason vechurukkeenga? apadi ellAm naan sonnadhA neengaLE ninaichchukkureenga. I am able to cricketing reasons for most of the evil scheming accusations you have. Brett Lee vENumnE dhaan beamer pOduraan-nu sonneengaLE.

Aussie commentators style-la sollaNumnA: that's a bit unnecessary


KEttA apdi nadakkAdhunu maindain paNNa vENdiyadhu. vandhA pAththukkalAm. You don't seem to believe that when something blatantly biased happens I will be critical of it.

indha condemnation futures market speculationE vachchukkuradhu illai


veto vechukittu thangalukku saadhagamaa rule paNNina naadharis mEla avLO nambikkai? idhai paththi konjam sollungaLEn. Oru history aarvalanE kEkkuREn.


Your refusal to criticise England and ECB for anything is a real real indicator. For what? Name five-nu sonnEn.

[wizzy]

P_R I say playing in subcontinental conditions w.r.t (heat+humidity+pitches) have been Proteas forte (don't bring in Culligan yam talking about quality bats) so whatever little success Eng have enjoyed here they owe it to these guys..Eng always lacked Khadoos/pedigreed bats who have had the skills/temperament to bat time/force a result by bullying the opposition so KP/Trott have filled up that void. They might as well end up in top 3 highest run getters for Eng with Cook being the other which should tell you about the efficacy of English bats over the years..If SA never existed as a test nation then the argument that KP/Trott playing for Eng would have been case of 'sign up' akin to Kepller playing for OZ but clearly this is case of 'stealing' prospective ATG bats from South Africa.

imo BCCI should take cue from ECB w.r.t county cricket use IPL as a Madrassa to condition/recruit prospective ATG phast bowlers to play for them

If you going to map each and every technically accomplished bats to being 'English' appram naan enatha solla :)

[P_R]

Eng always lacked Khadoos
:shock: kulaththozhilE adhu dhaanungaLE. ellArum kattaiyai pOttu dhaan veLAduvAinga. Botham, Lamb, Flintoff dhaan rarities.

I guess if some England player plays for SA or Aus or NZ, it wouldn't seem odd.
India - definitely odd.

[ajithfederer]

Collingwood eellam exceptional cases-nga. Talk about the rule(normal scenario) here. India-la kooda than Raina, Kohli etc are good fielders. Adhukaaga all Indians are good fielders eh?? :huh:

Saami idhu ulaga nadippu. Whole world knows an Indigenous England side is a good for nothing side. :lol: Ninga atom-bomb ai sothula maraikka paakuringa. Talent pool my ass, Ulloorla irukaradhu peru than talent pool. Velinaatula irukaradhu talent pool Allaa.

Please read in sequence


Feddy mentioned fielding as an 'advantage' Saffers brought in. I am not too sure. Collingwood ellAm nallaavE pudippAnE.


What I was denying is the claim that England was lacking in skills x.y.z that they now have because they have exclusive access to foreign talent and have thus become world beaters.

England is all out focused on recruiting, talent-spotting. Even that I would say is taking advantage of a talent pool they've always had people come from. I don't find it odd.

[ajithfederer]

Kustodians of the game.
40 varushama ODI Cricket
100+ years aa Test cricket.

Ippo than orae oru Weld cup (adhuvum tonty 20).
Beaten thrice in ODI WC Finals
Became No 1 only to lose 4 cons matches in Aasiya.

Ivanga ve ve ve vay ve va va va aama !!!! :x

[ajithfederer]

Saireeng / United Nations/ Britees empire team. Should choose either one of these or should find some new names.

[ajithfederer]

Wisdom from GF :bow:. What a great film again.

"You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning, Like they should have stopped Hitler in Munich. they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble".

I am saying this now All the other national teams are in for big trouble in the future if this practice continues. Indha dawgs will soon completely take over the sport do all mollamaarithanams and their fans will justify every thing their sports body does.

[ajithfederer]

It will look odd.

It is not like the old times(0f 80's and 90's). Every thing is being scrutinized and talked about.



I guess if some England player plays for SA or Aus or NZ, it wouldn't seem odd.

[wizzy]

P_R Khadoos-ness isn't limited to mattai/kattai podrathu :lol: it extends to being a clutch player/scoring daddy 100s/to be a batsman for all seasons..not to be perturbed by kin/kith vallakappu/kadhu kutthu/depression et all..basically to be the best bat they could ever be..surukumma sollanumna oru Stephen Waugh ella Wall of 00s mathiri...scoring runs with robot like precision..for all their doggedness Nass/Thorpe couldn't convert those into numbers and Trott/KP have succeeded in this regard which is very un-English is my opinion.

[Plum]

Ulaga nadippu continues. If you want how the veto was used, cricket history has enough tales. I am not going to educate you. The very fact that they created a veto should tell you something? No? AF invoked Godwin's law let me extend it in 1945, you'd have said "do we have enough evidence on conc camos? Oru latycham pEru saagattum appuRam action edukkalaam.. Again a very distinct sothula poosanikkai maRaikkum Ebglish behaviour.

[SoftSword]

What the devil that has got to do with the discussion here? :banghead:


Of course you wouldn't.



Australia kaaran Odhaipaan :lol2:
No sir. They are NOT. Commonwealth-nnu irundhaalum they are seperate COUNTRIES.

my 2 paise...
england and wales are eli and poonai... most welsh ppl does not support the england team ina match...

[VinodKumar's]

Michael Clarke ku 4 wicket kudutha mundakalapa west indies ku :clap: :clap: :hammer:

[P_R]

Collingwood eellam exceptional cases-nga. Talk about the rule(normal scenario) here. India-la kooda than Raina, Kohli etc are good fielders. Adhukaaga all Indians are good fielders eh?? :huh:
Who ever said all England are good fielders.
You said Eng have upped their fielding skills by importing fielders. i.e. something from the outside 'locals' can imbibe.
I don't see a convincing case of that.


Whole world knows an Indigenous England side is a good for nothing side Thorpe, Stewart, Lamb, Botham, Gooch, Goughie - ivaingaLai ellAm good-for-nothing-nu sonneengannA naan enna seyya mudiyin.


Ulloorla irukaradhu peru than talent pool. Velinaatula irukaradhu talent pool Allaa. Rejeetted. I invoked America, neenga suvaththula muttikkitteenga.

[P_R]

It will look odd.

It is not like the old times(0f 80's and 90's). Every thing is being scrutinized and talked about.
What is being odd, got to do with scrutiny Feddy?
If someone born in Dorset plays for Australia, nothing is odd. This kind of thing happens all the time outside cricket.
Whereas if he plays for India, it would be odd.

[P_R]

P_R Khadoos-ness isn't limited to mattai/kattai podrathu :lol: it extends to being a clutch player/scoring daddy 100s/to be a batsman for all seasons.. Khadoos is IIUC about no-quarter-given style. They had someone or the other kicking in. Batsmen for all seasons - yes it's taken a while to come. In the last couple of years do you think the difference between KP/Trott and MaNi/Cook is a whole lot?

not to be perturbed by kin/kith vallakappu/kadhu kutthu/depression et all.. This has nothing to do with anything.

for all their doggedness Nass/Thorpe couldn't convert those into numbers and Trott/KP have succeeded in this regard which is very un-English is my opinion. I don't think it is un-English. But one qn for you, as much as someone who thinks it is un-English, do you think it is SAfrican. yaaru prototype? Amala, Kallis, McKenzie-A?

[P_R]

Ulaga nadippu continues.
Refusal to back-up loose allegation that Ireland is ready for test cricket and Eng is suppressing them continues.

If you want how the veto was used, cricket history has enough tales. I am not going to educate you.
ezhudha sOmbalA irundhA, link edhunA kudunga. nEthulErndhu...cricket, ECB, veto-nu google paNNittu irukkEn.

The very fact that they created a veto should tell you something? No? India Security Council permanent membership, range-A?

Oru latycham pEru saagattum appuRam action edukkalaam.. Again a very distinct sothula poosanikkai maRaikkum Ebglish behaviour. solradhukku edhunA irundhA sollunga. summA Nazi, racism sollittE irukkeengaLE thaviRa, oNNumE varaliyE. veRum kAththu dhaan'nga varudhu.

[P_R]

England support paNNAdhavan kooda, Plum kitta anju nimisham pEsinA pOdhum :lol2:

[wizzy]

Khadoos is IIUC about no-quarter-given style. They had someone or the other kicking in. Batsmen for all seasons - yes it's taken a while to come. In the last couple of years do you think the difference between KP/Trott and MaNi/Cook is a whole lot?

imo Nohit/ATG are the antithesis for the Khadoos-ness so I take it as whatever they aren't :lol2: Cook has so many of those low troughs in batting to be bracketed to this..Mani is always seen as a guy who gets those soft runs/joining the chorus/sharing the limelight after the job is done by others.



This has nothing to do with anything.

athu my needle at soft English cricketers in Tresco/Vaughn/Flintoff who promised a lot but delivered less thanks to their uttar pradesh.



I don't think it is un-English. But one qn for you, as much as someone who thinks it is un-English, do you think it is SAfrican. yaaru prototype? Amala, Kallis, McKenzie-A?

Mckenzie/Grame Smith went to the same school so you could map their untidiness in batting style to that..Amala <=> Trott..both didn't have a competent offside play when they started and their technique is based on tiring the bowlers out and making them bowl to their strength.

[Plum]

The problem is your weird "tradition" reasoning. It is just diverting of the issue. It is from the very British template of diverting the plane of the argument to gain a foothold. Must say you outdid your masters there - even they haven't resorted to such specious reasoning.

ThozhargaLE, here's a conversation from the 19th century:
Scene: one day in Thosar, Rajasthan, in 19th century: :
raja ram mohan roy : pommannaattiya udankattai ERa solRadhu nallallai. NEkku manasu thAngAdhu kEttELA,

Ram Prabhu Menaria, Village chief : dhE, idhellAm enga oorla sarva sAdhAraNAm. KaNdukkAma pOviyA? NeekEnti abbayi? Idhu unga oorA?

RRM Roy apdiyellAm solla padAdhu, enna dhaan pArambariyamnAlum nyaayam dharmam manidhAbimAnam ellAm oNNu irukkungaLE?

PR Menaria adhellAm engaLukku theriyAdhu. Naanga pala varushamA ipdi thAn paNdrom. Nee yaaru kekkaRadhukku?

RRM Roy: EnglandlalAm ipdi illeenga....
PRM: dei adhu avanga kalchardA! IngE poNNu udankattai ERinA evlo naturalA irukku pAkka? IdhuvE veLLakAri gown pOttukittu udankattai ERinA pAkka kaNdrAviyA irukkAdhu?

***RRM Roy jumps into the pyre himself. 20th century governments urgently order revision of history textbooks***

[Plum]

Obfuscationukku innoru example - AF said England team will be crap without the saffer imports and PR Menaria quotes Thorpe, Gough etc as counter examples. These were decent players - of the order of Jav Srinath - but the team was still crap with them. It is a cleverly subterfugal counter example. Graham Thorpe - pErulaya thORpu. Whenever I hear "Ninnai charan adaindhEn", I think it is apt for current England team - "thunbam ini illai sOrvillai, sOrvillai Thorpe illai".

[ajithfederer]

1st loose-la viduvom.

For every Thorpe and Stewart I can name a Ramprakash and Jack russell. Point-ae purinjukka maatinguringa illa othukka maatinguringa. For most of the time England have been below par. They were never considered a threat to anybody. Punching above their weight category. They were never in the likes of say the top two(Aus and WI)80's and 90's, Pak and Ind(India had a solid home test record and a WC To boot with) and SA and SL from the 90's.?. What trophies you got in the last (40 yrs of ODI + Test cricket)?? :huh:

Talent pool wise, Inga fundamental difference. I don't think I have to argue anymore. We have to agree to disagree. I stand by what i say. You guys steal others talent and have an unfair advantage over other teams. Idhuvae trade issue va irundha I could have filed a complaint in WTO. Aana Ninga nadathunga. ICC-ae ninga dhan.

Who ever said all England are good fielders.
You said Eng have upped their fielding skills by importing fielders. i.e. something from the outside 'locals' can imbibe.
I don't see a convincing case of that.

Thorpe, Stewart, Lamb, Botham, Gooch, Goughie - ivaingaLai ellAm good-for-nothing-nu sonneengannA naan enna seyya mudiyin.

Rejeetted. I invoked America, neenga suvaththula muttikkitteenga.

[ajithfederer]

You seem to live in a well. Do you ever travel to outside forums, read cricinfo/youtube comments section and other popular places. I have seen even English supporters commenting that the side they field over the last 2-3 years doesn't look English to em. Why do you think Border calls your team British empire team?. Puriyama pesuringa.



What is being odd, got to do with scrutiny Feddy?
If someone born in Dorset plays for Australia, nothing is odd. This kind of thing happens all the time outside cricket.
Whereas if he plays for India, it would be odd.

[ajithfederer]

Yov Plum/Wizzy forget it man. He is just taking us for a ride. He has successfully clubbed sports recruiting with Immigration. Let's all accept that the Indigenous Eng team is the best team since Invincibles 1948, WI (70-90) and Aus (99-2007). Evvalavu than reason oda eduthu sonnalum adhu loppidi illai-ngrar. Waste of time.

[HonestRaj]

Michael Clarke ku 4 wicket kudutha mundakalapa west indies ku :clap: :clap: :hammer:

5 for

[Plum]

What irks me is the complete refusal to come out of the well, as AF put it. Populatuion compositionlAm enna reasoning? it is like a S Anand in article in Outlook demanding that there should be proportional representation of non-brahmins in Indian test team - orE DINGsA irukkAngaLAm teamla( at that time, Tendul,Sanju Manju, Srinath, Latchu etc ipdi mukA team DINGsA irundha kaalam).

Cricket teamngaradhu need not be representative of the underlying numbers in the society - Canadakku Balaji Rao pOi veLAyAdalaiyA? He admitted that he doesnt have any skill other than Cricket to go to Canada. But Canadala Indian irukkaRAdhu adhisayam illai so that would be acceptable to ivar.

Englandnu vandha udanE reason invent paNNA mAdhiri ivaru EdhO samALikkaRAr.

Sari, atleast stop with "it is my opinion". You talk as if tomorrow if India recruits foreginers, if England sattam pOttu adhai thaduthA, avanga nyAya dharmaththai kAppAthinadhA arththam. What nonsense is that? That is just holding up your ordero f things.

ulagathulEyE ivanung dhAn cricket Ada peRandhAnungaLA? ivanga tradition dhAn traditonA? ivangaLukku pazhakkam Anadhu dhAn Cricketukku nalladhA? ennayyA udhAr udaRInga?

Again, I repeat, I wish I was in the BCCI or Seenu mama had the kind of anger that I have - Englandaiyum Australiayvayum Oda Oda veratii adikkalAM. India is wasting the history-given dominance of ICC. They'll regret it when England return to power - appO irukku Veto power, scheming to kill cricket in India and subcontinent etc. appO kizhiyum ivanga mugaththirai.

[Plum]

Bangladesh beat Pakistan in World Cup and qualified for test status. Ireland have done much more than that. indha kELviyE defence mechanism (Ireland are ready or not). Veto power vechu enna paNNinAnga - pOi padinga, I dont have the time. So many, so many Indian and Paki and Lankan admins and players have talked about it. 2 bouncer per over rule vandhadhE because they couldnt face up to Holding and co. When Lillee and co were breaking bones, they didnt think of that rule. idhellAm varalARu. oNNumE theriyAdha mAdhiri nInga nadikkaRadhukellAm nAnga badhil solla mudiyAdhu.

Plus, endh vishayathai sonnAlum "adhellAm miga sAdhArNamappA"-nu saaljappu solla vENdiyadhu..

First of all, define good and bad in general - because you are post-facto defining good as anything England does. modhalla define your goood and bad - I am sure a thousan dexamples from history and current affairs we can point out England doing that. indha gymnastics of waiting for England to do something, and then defining it as good for the game is dakalti.

[ajithfederer]

Ivaru veto power pathi mattum padichitaalum :lol:. Vandhu adhu subjective, it sounds ODD, case by case nottanum nnu solluvaaru.

[ajithfederer]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/top-stories/Arjuna-Ranatunga-fired-as-SLC-head-for-opposing-IPL-Report/articleshow/12907076.cms

[wizzy]

<P_R>Eng/OZ/SA having veto seems natural but can't say the same about others</P_R> </discussion>

[Plum]

England/Oz have appealed aggressively even worse than what Sehwag and co. did. But that is natural for them and unnatural for Indians hence I suspended Sehwag.

Spot 2 differences between this and feeyar's "natural order".


kulakkalvi thittam is quite sensible. Kothanaar magan kothanaarA varradhu natural dhAnE? Adhu dhaanE marabu. Apdi dhaane nadakkudhu kaalam kaalamaa? Idhu enna pudhusA setuppu thekkaRavan magan serupu theikka thEvai illainulAm solRadhu? Bleddy naansens. .Ulagauthala ella countrykaaranukkum defined behaviour irukku adhai thaandi avan varavE koodaadhu. "Natural"A behave paNNanum - Prabhu Ram, 2012 copyright

[Plum]

Let's assume Spain doesn't have any Indians as of date. Let's assume a indian doctor applies a job in Spain.
Here's a visa interview by Visa Officer Prab Ramos:

Doctor aspirant damodaran: I'd like to go to spain and take up a career opportuintiy in medicine

Visa Officer Prab Ramos: edhuukkudA? Spainla vEra endha thuRailayum Indian illaiyE? Idhukku mattum edhukku? Spainla neRaiya Indians coffee shopla work paNdradhuku, appuRam mAttu vaNdi OttaRadhukku adhukkellAm vandhappuRam nee DoctorA vandhA pOdhum.

Doctor aspirant damodaran: :confused2:

[ajithfederer]

:rotfl:

Prab Ramos

[Plum]

Next day civil engineer chitra appears for a Visa interview for a job in Spain.
visa officer prab ramos: chitra poNNu, spainla edhunA indian Cricket Adi pArthurukkiyA? Spainla paravalA indians cricket aadattum. Appo nee engineerA pOnA, adhu naturalA irukkum. Dhideernu nee engineerA pOREngaradhu artificialA illai? Idhu epdi irukku? Muhahahahaha



pala thuRaila indians oru nAttukku pOnA dhAn, andha nAttukku Indians cricket veLayAda mudiyum. or for that matter, oru thuRaila oru Indian innoru nAttukku pORadhukku, maththa ellA thuRaiyilum Indians angE already irukkaNum. But AnAl paranthu kinthu pakshe lekin kAni, oru thuRaila modhalla oru Indian pOnA dhAn, oNNu oNNA pala thuRaila Indians angE pOga mudiyin. ippO enna seyya? What to do? eviti chEsEdhi? kya kare? ki korbo?


indrilirnhdu indha paradox Prab Ramos Paradox endru anbodu azhaikka padum

[ajithfederer]

Just now got hold of this video. A staggering Assault :shock:


Kevin Pietersen 91(65)* - Australia v England at Bristol 2005 Natwest Series

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gWvS3wWvhA

Pietersen absolutely massacres Australia. Kills both Gillespie and Kasprowicz. Only Mcgrath is spared. Shane Watson is brutalized and he behaves just like a wanker. P'sen Gives him a mouthful too :lol:. And his ODI Record is staggering at that time at an abg of 100+ with 3 100's. Ivan ellam Eng velayadalainna innum muppadhu varushathukku ingilaandhu dhathi aa than irundhirupaanga. And people tell me SA Imports haven't helped them much. I can Never EVER imagine an Englishman playing this kind of a knock against a top quality side like Aus in their prime.

Earlier in my posts here I had given a bad example citing fielding. SA imports have definitely bolstered Eng batting.

[P_R]

For every Thorpe and Stewart I can name a Ramprakash and Jack russell. Point-ae purinjukka maatinguringa illa othukka maatinguringa. For most of the time England have been below par. As a long suffering fan, you think I am not painfully aware of this? John Crawley mEla ellAm ticket eduththirukkEn.


Talent pool wise, Inga fundamental difference. I don't think I have to argue anymore. We have to agree to disagree. I stand by what i say. Ditto.

[P_R]

You seem to live in a well. Do you ever travel to outside forums, read cricinfo/youtube comments section and other popular places. I have seen even English supporters commenting that the side they field over the last 2-3 years doesn't look English to em. Why do you think Border calls your team British empire team?. Puriyama pesuringa.
Yes I live in a well. I don't travel to other forums. I don't read comments columns, magazine articles about cricket politics etc. I don't care what other England fans think (and thus have no sense of their antics, which I understand you and LM).

I am merely giving you my opinion based on what I think is 'natural' immigration, extension of a tradition, even of - as you rightly point out - is happening in a more focussed, conscious manner than earlier - versus the counterpart example you and Plum gave, of India fielding phoren players.

[P_R]

Yov Plum/Wizzy forget it man. He is just taking us for a ride. He has successfully clubbed sports recruiting with Immigration. Let's all accept that the Indigenous Eng team is the best team since Invincibles 1948, WI (70-90) and Aus (99-2007). Evvalavu than reason oda eduthu sonnalum adhu loppidi illai-ngrar. Waste of time.

I never called it indigenous - I said I don't care.
I never called it better than the invincibles - that again is your insinuation.

I see any refusal to condemn phoren recruitment is being conflated with blind English support -to the extent of calling this team an ATG.
I don't think I have even called this the best English team ever, have I?

[P_R]

Cricket teamngaradhu need not be representative of the underlying numbers in the society - Canadakku Balaji Rao pOi veLAyAdalaiyA? He admitted that he doesnt have any skill other than Cricket to go to Canada. But Canadala Indian irukkaRAdhu adhisayam illai so that would be acceptable to ivar. Exactement.


Englandnu vandha udanE reason invent paNNA mAdhiri ivaru EdhO samALikkaRAr. England-kum adhE reason dhaanEyyA solREn :think2:


You talk as if tomorrow if India recruits foreginers, if England sattam pOttu adhai thaduthA, avanga nyAya dharmaththai kAppAthinadhA arththam. What nonsense is that? That is just holding up[I] your ordero f things. nyAya dharmam - again and again - your sorry attempt to thrust word in my mouthsu.
I am saying that such a rule, were it to come, will prevent England also from using players from everywhere. No more H1Bs. Thus putting an end to a tradition by a simple bull-headed insistence on equating the Indian and English circumstances.

Gymnastics-nnuveengaLE.


ulagathulEyE ivanung dhAn cricket Ada peRandhAnungaLA? ivanga tradition dhAn traditonA? ivangaLukku pazhakkam Anadhu dhAn Cricketukku nalladhA? ennayyA udhAr udaRInga?
Britis tradition ozhiyaNum 'ndreenga.
puriyudhu. Dontorry...nichchayam orunaaL nadakkum.
naanellAm kaila oru kaRuppu ribbon kuththittu vaayai moodittu OramA pOyi ukkAndhukkuvEn. 'adhellAm oru kaalam hmmm' nu pErappiLLaingaLukku kadhai solluvEn.


Aana Ninga nadathunga. ICC-ae ninga dhan.

India is wasting the history-given dominance of ICC.
paal-la yEdhAvadhu kutram kuRai irundhaa...ivar maNi. mERkoNdu paal vENumnA, naan ramaNi.

[P_R]

Bangladesh beat Pakistan in World Cup and qualified for test status.
They've been playing international matches for ages before that. Routinely played in the Asia Cup since the late 80s. Surely you know that better than me.
It wasn't as if they played '99 WC and voila the case was made.

Ireland - nallA varuveenga thambri, of course.
But enna paNNittAinga?

Ireland have done much more than that. Like?

Kenya was consistently the best associate nation. IIRC they won two ICC trophies back to back, right? Played continuously from the '96 WC. Had top-class batsmen like Tikolo. Thrilled the world by making it to the '03 SFs. Even they didn't get the test cut. adhuvum England sadhiyA??


indha kELviyE defence mechanism (Ireland are ready or not). ungaLukku edhu dhaan sadhi illai. ellAththukkum oru interpretation. Naan simple face-value terms-la pEsikittu irukkEn.


2 bouncer per over rule vandhadhE because they couldnt face up to Holding and co. When Lillee and co were breaking bones, they didnt think of that rule. idhellAm varalARu. Oh ok. Point taken.


oNNumE theriyAdha mAdhiri nInga nadikkaRadhukellAm nAnga badhil solla mudiyAdhu. namburadhum nambAdhadhum unga ishtam.


Plus, endh vishayathai sonnAlum "adhellAm miga sAdhArNamappA"-nu saaljappu solla vENdiyadhu.. indha maadhiri uruppadiyAna points sonnA, naan yEn appadi sollappOREn.



First of all, define good and bad in general - because you are post-facto defining good as anything England does.
Not true.
Whatever helps maintain the game the way I saw it when I started watching it is good - early 90s.
Whatever changes it radically is bad. Whatever makes good contests possible is good. Whatever makes it lopsided is bad.
How's that for 'goody goody'?


indha gymnastics of waiting for England to do something, and then defining it as good for the game is dakalti. :sigh2: Like what I say? Everything I am saying, I am saying in the broadest possible manner.

Like when Swann says nasty things and gets away with it, that is outright unfair.
When Atherton - captain of the bloody side- tampers with the ball - that is wrong.
Similarly when Broad doesn't get pulled up for the offences, which'd've got others in soup.

When England have a team composed of players from everywhere - that's not wrong
If India, in the future, attempts to do something of that sort - it'd be ridiculously wrong.
And in response were a rule to be imposed preventing every country from getting players from everywhere - that'd be unfortunare but that'd be the right thing to do, to prevent a farce.

Plain and simple. Case by case.
Play each ball on its merits 'mbAingaLE - or perhaps is that also a tradition that should be done away with.

[P_R]

<P_R>Eng/OZ/SA having veto seems natural but can't say the same about others</P_R> </discussion>
indha veto 'ngradhu ennadhu?
If all countries in the ICC vote in favour of one thing and Eng votes against it, Eng prevails is it?
If so, that seems very odd and is one tradition that can be gotten rid off for sure.

[P_R]

Ulagauthala ella countrykaaranukkum defined behaviour irukku adhai thaandi avan varavE koodaadhu. "Natural"A behave paNNanum - Prabhu Ram, 2012 copyright
abaaramaana puridhal Plum :clap:

I think you understand what I am saying but are just intent on presenting it in poor light to here.

You intentionally miss what I am saying about India -as a society - not having enough phoreners for it to make sense to have a team composed of them. andha context-la 'natural' nu use paNNEn. And you know and understand that very well.

Yet you channel your inner Ram Jethmalani and hang-on to the word to make these kinds of remarks. Kulakkalvi! really? :huh:

[P_R]

Visa Officer Prab Ramos: edhuukkudA? Spainla vEra endha thuRailayum Indian illaiyE? Idhukku mattum edhukku? Spainla neRaiya Indians coffee shopla work paNdradhuku, appuRam mAttu vaNdi OttaRadhukku adhukkellAm vandhappuRam nee DoctorA vandhA pOdhum.

To engage with the point, this IS the difference.
Your question is: "Why are you treating cricket as special? Why can't treat it like every other immigration?"
The answer is: "because I have got into my head that a team representing the nation, should looked like people drawn from it. Definitely not proportional representation (like the US track and field team may be nearly all black). But it would be odd to have a bunch of foreigner, who are pretty much in no other field, except that sport. Then it begins to sound like this IPL, BPL style club cricket teams.

avvaLO dhaam 'pA.

[P_R]

Spainla paravalA indians cricket aadattum. Appo nee engineerA pOnA, adhu naturalA irukkum. Dhideernu nee engineerA pOREngaradhu artificialA illai? Idhu epdi irukku? Muhahahahaha
Yep. The converse is not true. idhai naanE sonnEnE, neenga enna solRadhu? Reciprocity edhirpArkkureenga pOla. Unfortunately adhu anga illai.

[P_R]

And people tell me SA Imports haven't helped them much.
I guess someone, somewhere told you that. For I sure didn't.
On the contrary, I said KP is nothing like anything. It was not like a 'skill' was imbimbed by the team from KP.
Wizzy made the point about Trott's gumption - I am not sure I agree with him that that was trait that didn't exist earlier.



Earlier in my posts here I had given a bad example citing fielding. SA imports have definitely bolstered Eng batting.
KP and Trott are very good batsmen and have given the team a lot of strength. Of course this is true, illainnA vettikku avaingaLAi team-ai eduththu vachchuruppAingaLaakkum.

btw Flintoff silapala pattaiyai kiLappum knock-gaL aadi irukkAn enbadhai thaazhmaiyudan theriviththuk kOLgiREn.
The last test in the Basil D'Olivera where Tresco got a double hundred - and thus levelled the series (vaaganam captaincy), he made a 90 odd. Against Pollock, Ntini.
IIRC it was Stewart's last match, they put together the partnership that got them the lead and eventually the win.

The previous match, which they lost succumbing to Ntini excellence, Flintoff made a powerful century partnering with the tail.

And you are of course forgetting the knocks he played in your favourite series - the 2005 Ashes against Lee-Gillespie-Warnie.
Remember Edgbaston? They were some 60 for 6 when he smashed them back into the match to come back and bowl them to victory.

[P_R]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/top-stories/Arjuna-Ranatunga-fired-as-SLC-head-for-opposing-IPL-Report/articleshow/12907076.cms Hmmm...

[P_R]

Article by Derek Pringle about batsmen whining (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/counties/9226983/So-for-once-it-is-not-a-batsmans-game.-About-time.html) when they don't have the advantage

And one commentator there said:

So pitches that make ordinary bowlers look like demons are welcomed by Pringle? No surprise there.
:lol:

[ajithfederer]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/rankings/content/current/page/211271.html

Aus new number 3 now. Vachukongada dei.

[littlemaster1982]

"Well, this will be your last Test."

Darren Sammy responds to Ricky Ponting's comment that Chris Gayle should be West Indies' captain, during a bit of on-field banter at the Dominica Test.

__________

Ponting :rotfl2:

[Plum]

See, it is one thing to say that 'it suits my(feeyar)ls mental comfort to have foreigners not playiong for India" as against " they should legislate against such a thing". Or imply that it would be a great thing if this is banned even if England had to connive using cunning to get that done. Ends justify the means, eh? Adhu mollamaarithanam but kinthu en mindsetukku oththu pOgudhu so adhai naan support pandrennu sollunga. Appo Lemon soos kudichu indha debate-ai niruthikkuvom

[ajithfederer]

Avan captain velayae pudungitaanga. Andha gaandula pesirupaan. :rotfl:

[Plum]

Excedllent comment in a guardian article by a commenter called "Bumboclart", who is a fierce critic of WICB, and is known to have inside knowledge through West Indian cricket sources of happenings in ICC. It seems like in 2007-08, WI were lured to a tour of England(Test tour) by offering money to the WICB. England had to do this because they had a gap in the schedule because they refused to entertain Zimbabwe. It seems like WICB forced Gayle and others to hurriedly assemble for this tour, which affected their IPL Commitments, which ahd been pre-planned assuming no such tour in the horizon. Yet, the English press painted Gayle as the villain, and cornered him into saying "I dont care if Test Cricket dies", which were essentially made as a reactionary statement by Gayle. And they conveniently painted IPL and BCCI as the villains of the piece killing test cricket by luring Gayle into playing IPL just tow days before the England tour of Windies starts.
Suc
h is their cunning and villainy. The real villains of the piece were ECB there. But since they espouse test cricket, avanga enna azhichaattiyam vENA paNNalAm. Feeyar will support. namma enna incident sonnAlum "pooh avLO dhAnA", "idhukku proof irukkA"-na vENdiyadhu.


You can look up the net on how this tour wasnt part of the ICC FTP and was horned in by England after they candelled the Zim tour. Circumstantial evidence supports bumblocart.
idhell
aam teheriyaamale, unconditionalA England are deivamsnu pEsa vENdiyadhu. Vishayam theriyalaina summA irukkaNum.

[Plum]

Note: Gayle and co didnt receive any extram payment for this extra tour by WICB. ECB never bothered for nyaayam and dharmam there. English press never bothered for facts there. They jus painted England as saviours of test ciricket, and Gayle as a villaun of the piece who was foregoing a test commitment for IPL

[P_R]

But since they espouse test cricket, avanga enna azhichaattiyam vENA paNNalAm. Feeyar will support.
If you refuse to understand there is little I can do.
You have gotten it into your head because that my support for England is because I think ECB is a knight in shine in armour defending the game's interests. No.


idhellaam teheriyaamale, unconditionalA England are deivamsnu pEsa vENdiyadhu. Vishayam theriyalaina summA irukkaNum.
Bolded part is your incessant, consistent, unsubstantiated prevarication calculated to incite the lay reader into a strong disfavour against yours truly.

Flay: Tomorrow England will do x,y,z if it so suits them
I yam: Quite possible and that would not be a bad thing, necessarily

idhukku ivvaLavu dham katteenga.

[P_R]

See, it is one thing to say that 'it suits my(feeyar)ls mental comfort to have foreigners not playiong for India" as against " they should legislate against such a thing". Or imply that it would be a great thing if this is banned even if England had to connive using cunning to get that done. Ends justify the means, eh? Adhu mollamaarithanam but kinthu en mindsetukku oththu pOgudhu so adhai naan support pandrennu sollunga. Appo Lemon soos kudichu indha debate-ai niruthikkuvom

I don't like chucking. It fundamentally changes the game as I know it.
Any legislation that helps keep things as they are, gets my support.

Tomorrow if there is a legislation revokes the recognition of T20 as admissible cricket format, I'll throw you all a grand party :mrgreen:

[P_R]

Despite the distinct possibility of all the above allegations happening, should Gayle have reneged on his lucrative IPL contract for a chance to play for WI - is what it boils down to. ECB forced WICB to force Gayle to be unprofessional, which naturally pissed him off - is your karuththu. You have rightly anticipated my take. ennadA periya T20, ennadA periya professionalism.
Now if Gayle had been forced to play some Eng-WI T20 instead of IPL, I guess my reaction would be ambivalent. adhai namburadhum nambAdhadhum unga ishtam.

Again and again and again - all my reactions are just based on the game.

[P_R]

Note: Gayle and co didnt receive any extram payment for this extra tour by WICB. ECB never bothered for nyaayam and dharmam there. English press never bothered for facts there. They jus painted England as saviours of test ciricket, and Gayle as a villaun of the piece who was foregoing a test commitment for IPL

T20 ozhiyaNum
England dhaan World Champions enRaalum
Online England cricket fans adhai serious-A namburadhA irundhaalum
ozhiyaNum.

idhukku AustraliavO yaarO yEdhAvadhu senjA, adhaiyin support paNNuvEn.

Basically enakku viLayAttu dhaan mukkiyam.

[Plum]

Adhaavadhu your beliefs are sarcosanct. Any mollamaarithanam done by anyone ok as long as your nterests are served. Just because you dlike, oru vishayaththaienna illegal immoral vechu venaa azhikkalaam. You will supportnaadhaaris just because they hapo support your cause. Corrupt dictators wqilproud of you :thumbsup:

[P_R]

There is no place for democracy in art.

[wizzy]

The decision has been taken before the main Test series of the summer, during which will several SouthAfrica-born England players line up against their native country. :lol:


The new regulation will apply to all players who take up residency in England after their 18th birthday. Those who arrive before the age of 18 will have to wait only four years.

An ECB spokesman said: “It is an attempt to try and support England-qualified players. There is a lot of investment in player pathways from the bottom upwards. This is a move designed to support our system.”


The ECB has retained discretion to reduce the residency period to four years for players born in a non-Test playing nation, which would apply to Irishmen such as Somerset spinner George Dockrell and Middlesex batsman Paul Stirling. expected with falling spin stocks :clap:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/9237488/ECB-extends-qualification-period-for-foreign-born-England-players.html

[P_R]

Any maNNin maindhargaL lobby that is forcing England to do such things?

[P_R]

First comment there..


You can be a British citizen after 4 years of legal stay in this country and why should we have a separate cut-off for professional cricketers?
idhai chonnA nammaLai paithiyakkArandrAinga

[wizzy]

might be do with Kolpak ruling with counties taking undue advantage in fielding overseas players

some more dope (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/303229.html)
Under the Kolpak ruling a player from any nation sharing an associate trading relationship with the EU is free to play as a professional within the EU. Since the ECB allows only two overseas players for each county, this ruling enables the counties to circumvent the limitation and hire professionals from outside England, especially from South Africa.

Speaking after 22-year-old Highveld Lions batsman Vaughn van Jaarsveld became the latest player to sign a Kolpak contract, Majola told the South African Press Association, "We are particularly worried about the young players taking up Kolpak contracts. We have invested a lot of money in them, through the national cricket academy and in other ways."

"Vaughn is a case in point. We have been watching him since he was at school. We could see he had something special, now he has indicated that he wants to try to qualify to play for England, and our investment in him is lost."

Majola said that England was as badly affected by the ruling as South Africa. "Because of the strength of the pound, they can get a better and cheaper Kolpak player than an English player. This means that English players are having difficulty coming through the system."

"The whole Kolpak thing is affecting international cricket, with more and more players opting to play county cricket. If nothing is done, you'll find the world's best players on the county circuit, with second string players representing their countries, and international cricket will just go downhill."

[mgb]

First comment there..


You can be a British citizen after 4 years of legal stay in this country and why should we have a separate cut-off for professional cricketers?


idhai chonnA nammaLai paithiyakkArandrAinga

PR.. the eligibility is 5 completed calendar years.. wrong info'nala correct pannen, nothing more

[Plum]

First comment there..


idhai chonnA nammaLai paithiyakkArandrAinga

First question yourself - are you arguing here seriously with due respect to facts and logic. England-ai poRuththa mattilum ipdi logic pEsuvInga. adhE mAdhiri if we get a New Zealand or Aussie fast bowler legally here, adhukku matttum pre-emptiveA "not natural"-nu oru sambandamE illAdha argument koNdu varInga? Arent you ashamed of your illogic?

Secondly, artla democracy - is that to bait me? What kind of stupid thing to bring in here? Have you lost your sense of logic? Artla democracy koodAdhunuu sonnEn yes. endha contextla? enna meaningla? Lets take an example - I dont like Vijay so I'd say he is a bad actor irrespective of how many crore people say he is good. That is the extent of that argument. Would I (or you ) say that suppose Vijay-ai pidikkAdha oruththar avarai pOttu thaLLittA, it is good only because the net result - of that meaning that Vijay doesnt act in movies any more - is to my liking?

What you are saying is that you dont like IPL - that's fine. You are saying you will ignore it. Fine. You are saying no matter how many millions hail it, you'll call ti a tamasha only. Fine. But where you are crossing the line is that "if someone hurts the IPL, irrespective of the legality and professionalism of it, I will support it and call ti a sport-saving act". Arent you ashamed to claim this? Arent you ashamed to try and give that "Art democracy" quote as if you are kidukki pidichufying me by quoting me on that? idhellAm dhAn unga honest argumentA? ennamO ennai mattum nAn ungaLai bad-A kANbikka apdi pEsarEnnu sonnInga? idhellAm enna?


You keep saying "Show me examples of ECB doing wrong". But whenever we show, you pooh piooh it or bring some such stupid arguments to make it look "idhellam sarva saadharanam". idhula you think you are being perfectly reasonable here, eh?

Take the WI tour example - it is akin to your management getting you and your team to do work for a side-project over the weekends without paying you, asking you to do extra work outside your contract. You seem to be in full support of it just because it is Chris Gayle who is getting affected, not you. Would you do that? Arent you ashamed to support such an act by ECB just because it suits your opinions?

[P_R]

PR.. the eligibility is 5 completed calendar years.. wrong info'nala correct pannen, nothing more Oh ok. adhu mAmbazham, idhu vAzhappazham, aanaa prachchanai ellAm oNNu dhaan.


adhE mAdhiri if we get a New Zealand or Aussie fast bowler legally here, adhukku matttum pre-emptiveA "not natural"-nu oru sambandamE illAdha argument koNdu varInga? Arent you ashamed of your illogic?
Not ashamed.
I think I myself told you the greatest contradiction of all. Sonia Gandhi becoming PM of India would not seem odd to me. Albie Morkel opening the bowling would.
idhukku mEla enna solla mudiyin? :huh:
Racism-naalum oru consistency vENdAmA. enakku adhuvum kidaiyAdhu. Case-by-case basis.


Secondly, artla democracy - is that to bait me? Nope.


What kind of stupid thing to bring in here? Have you lost your sense of logic? What you are up against here is not illogic, but cold amoral logic. It is the decided amorality that you find staggering. I understand that.


Lets take an example - I dont like Vijay so I'd say he is a bad actor irrespective of how many crore people say he is good. That is the extent of that argument. Would I (or you ) say that suppose Vijay-ai pidikkAdha oruththar avarai pOttu thaLLittA, it is good only because the net result - of that meaning that Vijay doesnt act in movies any more - is to my liking?

pOttu thaLLittA - rejected as analogy. adhellAm inciting-kaaga neenga solRadhu. idhai thaan invidious writing 'ngrEn. Even you don't mean that.
Get him/genre muzzled- is a more appropriate analogy. Let me respond to that..

You are far more democratic than me in saying 'each to his own'. I am not.
So if the powers muzzled the genius of Murali for their own politics, as you allege, it does not concern me. It keeps the game 'clean'.
If Ranatunga fights against the 'oppression' and thus gives everyone the leeway to chuck, then it annoys me because it messes with the game, regardless of what the balance-of-power implications are.


But where you are crossing the line is that "if someone hurts the IPL, irrespective of the legality and professionalism of it, I will support it and call ti a sport-saving act".
True. I agree I am aware of crossing the line when I enjoy what-I-don't-like being frustrated by political developments.


Arent you ashamed to try and give that "Art democracy" quote as if you are kidukki pidichufying me by quoting me on that? idhellAm dhAn unga honest argumentA? ennamO ennai mattum nAn ungaLai bad-A kANbikka apdi pEsarEnnu sonnInga? idhellAm enna? Art in democ. was an expression equa. used when talking about multiple readings, intentional fallacy etc. That is where I picked it up.
I make it a point never to insinuate, show-opponent-in-poor-light in a debate. In fact I go out of the way to react so, even when juicy opportunities present themselves. idhellAm neenga thara vENdiya compliment, enakku naanE sollikka vENdi irukku. thalaiyezhuththu.



Arent you ashamed to claim this? No. It gets worse, read the rest of the post..
adhukku munnAdi...irunga oru position-la pOyi ninnukkurrEn:
Real tolerance does not exist, what we do not value we make a virtue of tolerating in others - Chachaji Nehruji


You keep saying "Show me examples of ECB doing wrong". But whenever we show, you pooh piooh it or bring some such stupid arguments to make it look "idhellam sarva saadharanam". idhula you think you are being perfectly reasonable here, eh?
What arguments have I pooh-pooh'ed Plum?
Changing bouncer-rule, changing fielding rules arbitrarily, bias in refereeing, bodyline was invented by England - idhellAm oththukka dhaanE seyREn.
I will pooh-pooh switch-hit conspiracy-theories every day of the week. So?


Take the WI tour example - it is akin to your management getting you and your team to do work for a side-project over the weekends without paying you, asking you to do extra work outside your contract. You seem to be in full support of it just because it is Chris Gayle who is getting affected, not you. Would you do that? Arent you ashamed to support such an act by ECB just because it suits your opinions?
Totally agree. It is wrong in principle - assuming it is true, as it likely is. I just liked it that they attempted to mess with IPL.

If you call me unprincipled, selfish, objective maximizer - then I will take it without a whimper of protest, or - to use your word - shame.
But if you call me a 'blind' ECB apologist - then I disagree. avvaLo dhaan solREn.
Tomorrow if England wins several T20 worldcups on the trot(t) and India/Aus ally to ensure T20 gets derecognized as a format, I would like you to have no doubt in your mind, that I will be ecstatic.

You thought I was kidding when I say things like, I'd love to see the stock market bottom out? :-| ennOda petulance-ai humour-nu ninaichutteenga pOla.
That's a bit disappointing Plum. oru siladhu viLayAttukku solRavan dhaan. aanaa appappO seriousAvum pEsuvEn. adhai makkaL madhikkiRadhillai. Woody Allen also same problem.

[P_R]

"Vaughn is a case in point. We have been watching him since he was at school. We could see he had something special, now he has indicated that he wants to try to qualify to play for England, and our investment in him is lost." Brain-drain argument. On every IIT-ian the exchequer spends...

Because of the strength of the pound, they can get a better and cheaper Kolpak player than an English player. Not at all denying this. But what is special about cricket compared to other fields?
This means that English players are having difficulty coming through the system. Onaai nanaiyudhEnnu aadu azhudhudhaam :lol2:

[Plum]

Thanks - you are just like the Englishmen you support, then. No Wonder you like them. nInga 1900sla poRandhurndhA. Rao bahadur, Rai bAhadur (depending on whetehr you were born in South or North) vAngi iruppinga. Ofcourse, you'll take that as a compliment.

[Plum]

I am going to call you Rao Bahadur Prabhu Ramar henceforth. Her Majesty, the queenOda Indian representative adhigAri illaiyA?

[wizzy]

Brain-drain argument. On every IIT-ian the exchequer spends...
enna analogy edhu :???: pliss to compare the fees from early 00s to now..with abysmal state of research at all our esteemed institutes students are probably spending more..less said about the plight of students taking post-graduates in India the better also US can survive w/o them and they would probably get a competent Chinky/Filipino for every IITian but can't say the same about English cricket vis a vis mercenaries ;-) your brain-drain argument would have hold some water had SA wasn't test nation :-)


Not at all denying this. But what is special about cricket compared to other fields?

lack of home grown talent/inherent laziness to find/groom a talent w.r.t cricket and with counties looking for shortcuts to championship.

[P_R]

Rao bahadur, Rai bAhadur (depending on whetehr you were born in South or North) vAngi iruppinga. Ofcourse, you'll take that as a compliment.

I am going to call you Rao Bahadur Prabhu Ramar henceforth. Her Majesty, the queenOda Indian representative adhigAri illaiyA?

yOv, adhu oNNu dhaan illaingaREn...maRupadiyin adhaiyE solReerE.


wizzy, the analogy holds.I don't see how you have rebutted it. Homegrow your performers can be said to any developed nation now, no?

[wizzy]

you can't equate US with Eng w.r.t braindrain...correct analogy would have been a socialist India/students spending peanuts for their undergrads at IITs/AIIMs and then looked for greener pastures in US with virtually no funding for higher studies to pre 90s apartheid SA whose players had no means to redeem their cricketing skills hence consented to play/represent Eng/Oz/NZ in tests/odis...it is blasphemous to equate US with English cricket because US was a success story before our peeps landed on their shores and now English cricket is seen as a success story courtesy these very mercenaries and also US can survive with just their homegrown talents/system and we can't say the same about English cricket either..Eng/county cricket will be brought to its knees if all the mercenary/kolpak players turned their backs on them.

[P_R]

correct analogy would have been a socialist India/students spending peanuts for their undergrads at IITs/AIIMs and then looked for greener pastures in US with virtually no funding for higher studies is what I meant. The former brain-drain argument.


to pre 90s apartheid SA whose players had no means to redeem their cricketing skills hence consented to play/represent Eng/Oz/NZ in tests/odis...
There are only so many spots. People who want to try out elsewhere, as they always have can. And mind you they are not hedging. They have to be in England 4 years. So they are forsaking their local opportunities when they do so.


it is blasphemous to equate US with English cricket because US was a success story before our peeps landed on their shores and now English cricket is seen as a success story courtesy these very mercenaries and also US can survive with just their homegrown talents/system and we can't say the same about English cricket either..Eng/county cricket will be brought to its knees if all the mercenary/kolpak players turned their backs on them.
I think these are exaggerations.
Trott/KP are good addition, they give the team a bite and competitive edge. But England will be 'brought to 'its knees' without them? Both you and Feddy are misplaced. If they rest Trott and KP, they can't win a series, is what you are saying. I am not sure I agree.

Again, this is not to discount how valuable they are.I think you are discounting the others far too much.

[wizzy]

apartheid SA players looking for opportunities elsewhere is natural brain-drain.

Trott who played under 15/19 for SA and now playing tests for Eng is unnatural brain-drain with SA fielding a competent test side :noteeth:


I think these are exaggerations.
Trott/KP are good addition, they give the team a bite and competitive edge. But England will be 'brought to 'its knees' without them? Both you and Feddy are misplaced. If they rest Trott and KP, they can't win a series, is what you are saying. I am not sure I agree.

I meant the entire kolpak players who make up the county cricket for what it is today...If only Ecb rests Trott/KP for a test series and play their homegrown Owais/Ravi then we could arrive at a conclusion :-D

P_R to put it succinctly..getting a competent test batsman is a long/tedious process which also involves fair amount of luck w.r.t identifying/grooming the right talent ..OZ with their famed domestic system couldn't muster a prospective test bat to fill the void and are still holding on to Punter/Huss for whatever their worth and same was the case with India holding onto trinity bats..now imagine ECB snapping up 2 quality test bats out of thin air without spending a penny/time.

[P_R]

Trott who played under 15/19 for SA and now playing tests for Eng is unnatural brain-drain with SA fielding a competent test side :noteeth:
What if Trott didn't make the SA team. Amala, duPlessis-ku dhaan chance tharAingannA. Then blocking would be a dog-in-the-manger situation, no?
Of course same could be said of second Aussies whom India can hire. But there is a difference, no? (thangachchiya naai kadchichchu pA)


If only Ecb rests Trott/KP for a test series and play their homegrown Owais/Ravi then we could arrive at a conclusion :-D avaingaLai nambi ellAm naanE ticket edukka mAttEn :lol2: What I meant is, it is not like every test ONLY Trott or KP are seeing them home ('would be brought to their knees'). Is there a way to filter out matches where neither of them scored more than 20 in either innings? Strauss, maNi, Prior - someone or the other fires and does pitch in.



P_R to put it succinctly..getting a competent test batsman is a long/tedious process which also involves fair amount of luck w.r.t identifying/grooming the right talent ..OZ with their famed domestic system couldn't muster a prospective test bat to fill the void and are still holding on to Punter/Huss for whatever their worth and same was the case with India holding onto trinity bats..now imagine ECB snapping up 2 quality test bats out of thin air without spending a penny/time.
Of course. This is true of a public school trained doctor in SA.

Why did KP move? He hates the quota system and thought he won't get his due and went to England.
It is there for a good reason. If people don't like it, then they take the highway. As simple as that. No?

It is quite possible that ECB engineered to have him dropped from the Natal team, and stoked the disfavour he had against the quota system and thereby had him quit and procured him. ippadi yEdhAvadhu irundhA vanmaiyA kaNdikkalaam.

maththapadi, thappillai.

Trott Britis passport. avingallAm appadi dhaan 'nga. angittum ingittum pOyittu dhaan iruppAinga.
Trott's brother plays for some South African county and also for Netherlands (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/45709.html)

Mugabe's kaduppu with many of the whites is they don't identify with Zimbabwe. They maintain dual citizenships, they repatriate the earnings to England etc.
idhu oru broader social issue 'ngREn.
Cricket will be in pattern with rest of society.

[wizzy]

What if Trott didn't make the SA team. Amala, duPlessis-ku dhaan chance tharAingannA. Then blocking would be a dog-in-the-manger situation, no?
Of course same could be said of second Aussies whom India can hire. But there is a difference, no? (thangachchiya naai kadchichchu pA)

P_R enna kelvi edhu? Trott made it to under 15/19 and I have every reason to believe he would have made it to SA senior side if it wasn't Eng/County dangling the carrot...the chances of him getting a place in Saffer side is as good as Jac Rudolph


What I meant is, it is not like every test ONLY Trott or KP are seeing them home ('would be brought to their knees'). Is there a way to filter out matches where neither of them scored more than 20 in either innings? Strauss, maNi, Prior - someone or the other fires and does pitch in.

Eng lost 8 tests in the last 3 years..other than the Galle test in which Trott scored a 100 still Eng managed to lose it..even then KP didn't fire in that test ..in all other matches Eng have lost over the last 3 years KP/Trott haven't made any significant contribution.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;home_or_away=2;h ome_or_away=3;result=2;spanmax1=02+May+2012;spanmi n1=02+May+2009;spanval1=span;team=1;template=resul ts;type=team;view=results

so there is some correlation between KP/Trott scoring and Eng winning..suffice to say if it wasn't for these two mercenaries Eng test side would be brought it to its knees :huh: the first scorecard in the query (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345973.html) should serve as a sneak peek into a Eng side with only home grown talents on the batting front.

[Plum]

If Aussie Cricketrs start playing for India, eventually that'll lead to more Aussies in other fields in India. We have to start somewhere, don't we? Why do people go to Eng/Aus/western countries? Better opps - it has been happening for decades. It all started with that single plumber, no? Let it start with Cricket in India. What's your problem? How is this not the same as England getting Cricketers from other countries seeking better money in England. Where there is money, man goes. There is nothing more natural than this. You are just inventing a reason to justify England's mollamaarithanam(natural immigration, unnral immigration etc). Which is exactly how Englishmen deal with such issues. Raise some non-issues to distract the main issue. Which is why you can be considered a quasi-Englishman. Your concept of natural and unnatural is simply not enough justification to claim that England using Trott is different from India using Aussie bowlers. And it is this aspect - and your refusal to see reason in this aspect - that annoys me and makes me believe you are vidhandaavadhing

[Plum]

Trott would have easily made it to Saffers team. He went to England for better financial opps. Just as a second grade Aussie cricketer could come to India for better financial opps. We are a cricketing super+power baby - you want dough? Come here and l**k our a**e. Not that I'd be happy supporting an indian team with an Aussie make+up. I have enough trouble identifying with a pre-dominantly north indian team. But sauce for goose, sauce for gander etc. Do not obfuscate the issue by taling about natural, unnatural etc. What's more natural than man travelling to wherever'll get respect and money?

[ajithfederer]

Persistence thy name is Plum, :bow: Prabhu ram nu kooda sollalam but plum covers a wider spectrum.

[P_R]

Eng lost 8 tests in the last 3 years..other than the Galle test in which Trott scored a 100 still Eng managed to lose it..even then KP didn't fire in that test ..in all other matches Eng have lost over the last 3 years KP/Trott haven't made any significant contribution.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;home_or_away=2;h ome_or_away=3;result=2;spanmax1=02+May+2012;spanmi n1=02+May+2009;spanval1=span;team=1;template=resul ts;type=team;view=results

so there is some correlation between KP/Trott scoring and Eng winning..suffice to say if it wasn't for these two mercenaries Eng test side would be brought it to its knees :huh: the first scorecard in the query (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345973.html) should serve as a sneak peek into a Eng side with only home grown talents on the batting front.
Point taken. Their contribution/influence is indeed as crucial as you claim.

btw Trott double passport.


Let it start with Cricket in India. Even you don't believe this Plum. You think this is a start or an anomaly. Your take is, 'even if it is an anomaly, let it be'

What's more natural than man travelling to wherever'll get respect and money? If that is ALL you are willing to feel about the whole thing, that is the only plane in which you are going to consider it, if an urge to consider the long-tradition is malicious obfuscation, then I will concede it is the most logical thing in the world.


btw England now wants an IPL style T20 :-) Interesting times ahead in these pages.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

PR.. the eligibility is 5 completed calendar years.. wrong info'nala correct pannen, nothing more

Yes, it is 5 years now, used to be 7 years before at one stage.

[wizzy]

Point taken. Their contribution/influence is indeed as crucial as you claim.

yappa :thumbsup:


btw Trott double passport.

erunthutu pogatum..blame it on ECB's porous policy w.r.t kolpak players

[ajithfederer]

County news

England professionals demand IPL-style T20
David Hopps
May 2, 2012

Kevin Pietersen playing for Delhi Daredevils in the IPL. English professionals have told the PCA that a similar tournament should be established by the ECB © AFP

England's professional cricketers have overwhelmingly rejected the findings of the Morgan Report into the future of the first-class game and have called for the introduction of a high-profile Twenty20 tournament that can bear comparison with IPL.

The survey, conducted by the Professional Cricketers' Association (PCA), reveals in detail for the first time the strength of opposition to the proposed shake-up.

The players show almost universal support for the retention of the 16-match Championship and calls for T20 to become a highly promoted tournament in the middle of the season - in the manner of the IPL - to maximise the chances of attracting some of the world's best players.

The PCA report concludes that the English game must: "Establish a high quality T20 competition which draws on experience from other T20 events worldwide, and balances the requirement for short-term financial return for the counties with the need to establish a sustainable T20 income stream.

"For that, we need a competition which has the potential to attract the best overseas players and maximises overseas broadcast interest. A significant increase in the prize money at stake is a critical element of that.

"The T20 competition has a crucial role to play, both from a cricketing perspective, and for county finances. From the point of view of the players, the limitations on their ability to play a full part in the IPL because of the overlap with the start of our season ... make it critical that our own T20 competition delivers adequate compensation in terms of excitement and reward.

"The question for T20 is not simply 'how many games can we squeeze in?' particularly given the dangers of putting quantity before quality, but 'how can we make our T20 competition as good as it can be?'

"In designing the optimal competition, we believe ECB must engage with players (including those who have played in the IPL, Champions League, and Big Bash), spectators, sponsors and broadcasters (both at home and overseas) to understand how best to create a successful competition, played in front of large crowds, and attracting a good TV audience." Good luck with that.

But the desire for a high-profile T20 tournament comes alongside a desire to protect the integrity of the 16-match two-divisional Championship.

The report concludes: "The County Championship remains the priority, and this is a competition which must have full fixture symmetry and integrity. This is regarded by the players as more important than creating space in the schedule to allow our teams to compete in the Champions League, and this in turn is a higher priority than achieving further reductions in the amount of cricket played in the domestic season.

"We cannot support changes to our premier competition which are made to allow more room in the schedule for the other competitions ... We would further argue that the financial benefits claimed are (a) unproven, and (b) relatively small compared with the cricketing and commercial imperative of sustaining England's position as No. 1 Test playing nation."

As many as 91% of players regarded the Championship, often derided for its low crowds, as the most important tournament, with a similar number (87%) placing the Friends Life t20 as the second-most important competition. CB40 came a distant third, with the PCA calling for a "fundamental review" of how much 40 or 50-over cricket is played by the counties.

The players' views, which preliminary soundings conducted by ESPNcricinfo also suggest are shared by the bulk of spectators, place further pressure on the ECB to accept that the Morgan Report's solutions to the game's ills are not supported either by those who play or watch.

The exhaustive review, conducted by David Morgan, a former ECB chairman, was shelved by the ECB in March as the board decided instead to conduct further research throughout the 2012 season into the future of professional cricket in England.

Growing opposition to Morgan's recommendations, which included a reduction in Championship matches from 16 to 14, a return to 50-over cricket and 14 T20 matches, left the ECB board unable immediately to adopt a report that many senior officials still want to see become reality.

Morgan's proposal to play T20 cricket across much of the summer, on nights preferred by individual counties, was opposed by 77% of players polled who wanted the group stages to be played in a single block.

The PCA research was carried out online and involved 277 registered professionals, with a response rate of approximately 70%.

David Hopps is the UK editor of ESPNcricinfo

Feeds: David Hopps
© ESPN EMEA Ltd.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2012/content/current/story/563445.html

[Plum]

What arguments have I pooh-pooh'ed Plum?
Changing bouncer-rule, changing fielding rules arbitrarily, bias in refereeing, bodyline was invented by England - idhellAm oththukka dhaanE seyREn.
I will pooh-pooh switch-hit conspiracy-theories every day of the week. So?



AmAm oNNu oNNa spoon-feed paNNinA, grandA idhai mattum othukkaREnna vENDiyadhi. idhu ellAm combined effect dhAnE england-ai evil-nu solROm. ivLO aniyaayathukku kAraNamAna England-ai evil-nu orukka sonnA koRainjA pOyiduvInga?

Even now, your argument is "I can see that England is being self-servingbut it suits my vision of the game"-nu solRInga but you cannot get yourself to unequivocally condemn the imperialist tendencies of England? Why?

(Not that your word has any currency)

[wizzy]

also Ed Joyce's case was an classic example of ECB bending the rules to their whims..this guy was in Eng colours for 2007 worldcup and was in running for test cap but when he was deemed gaali perungaya dabba ECB didn't waste any time in leaving him in the lurch and poor guy had to revert to Ire for 2011 worldcup :neutral:

[P_R]

erunthutu pogatum..blame it on ECB's porous policy w.r.t kolpak players
yOv, ingilAndhu passport vachchurukkAruyyA. appadippatta aaLaik kooda sErththukka koodaadhunnA ennaiyyA arththam?

[wizzy]

yOv, ingilAndhu passport vachchurukkAruyyA. appadippatta aaLaik kooda sErththukka koodaadhunnA ennaiyyA arththam?

was he English whilst playing junior cricket for SA...apadi paatha Ryan Harris-um double passport holder..appo avunum English-a :huh:

Telegraph did raise some pertinent points when he debuted which still holds good with SA touring next month.


Trott says he feels English, but like Kevin Pietersen, he only moved to England as a professional in his early twenties. Clearly, he is English enough to play for England. But culturally, he'll always be South African. Because you can change your national allegiances, and even change your accent (though Trott hasn't). But you can't change your upbringing. You don’t become a different person by working overseas in your twenties, any expat will tell you that.



But England's 'we' status will be tested this winter, particularly when Pietersen and Trott, those two sons of South Africa, are batting together for England against the country – and the culture – that created them. I've got nothing against either individual. And if you're picking ringers you might as well pick good ones.

But it’s ultimately a numbers game. With one South African in the team, England were still 'we'. But with two South Africans in the team? Three? Four? Eleven?

[P_R]

AmAm oNNu oNNa spoon-feed paNNinA, grandA idhai mattum othukkaREnna vENDiyadhi. idhu ellAm combined effect dhAnE england-ai evil-nu solROm. ivLO aniyaayathukku kAraNamAna England-ai evil-nu orukka sonnA koRainjA pOyiduvInga? Overall evil, concerted scheming attack on all other phlows-nu naan sollavE illaiyE :lol2:


Even now, your argument is "I can see that England is being self-servingbut it suits my vision of the game"-nu solRInga but you cannot get yourself to unequivocally condemn the imperialist tendencies of England? Why? Imperialist tendencies-A? :huh: naalu pErukku nalladhu nadakkudhunnA edhuvum thappillai. Ippo Eng T20 tournament-ai BCCI scuttle paNNA, powermonger-nu thitta pOREnA :lol2: muppathaayirra roova vaangunadhukku Nepaalkaara kurrkA ippo dhaan correctA sOli pArththAn-nu solluvEn.

T20 ozhiyaNum, chucking ozhiyaNum - adhai vaLarththu vittavanunga ellAm manam puzhungi shaavaNum - idhai pOnRa nalleNgaLai thaviRa vERonRum aRiyEn paraaparamE

[Plum]

Test cricket ozhiyaNum. England and rao bahadurs manam puzhungaNum. Epdiyum sachin retire aayiduvaapla. So enakku endha nashtamum illai. Rao Bahadur Prabhu Ram - I hope that day is not too far.

[Plum]

Adhaavandhu ivlo page Anappuramum oru inconvenient pointukku cleverA ignore pandraar. How is it natural for a cricketer to toggle between ireland and England? How is that fair? Playing for both countries within a month - IPL-la kooda ipdi nadakkAdhu. Ivlo kevalamaana velai ellam pannuvaangalaam - adhu naturalaam. Ivaru thappunnu othukkave maattaaraam. Adhu apdiye logicalA. Rabbit 3 legs.

[sathya_1979]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2012/content/current/story/563497.html

Oru Indiano Pakistaniyo Lankano umpirea thittinaa thaniyaa pEsi mattera mudichiduvaangaLA? :think:

[sathya_1979]

surprise surprise! This article is not open for comments :lol2: rest all extra and sundries related to IPL, BCCI etc are made a open market where any tom, dick (richard) and harry can post crap :wink:

[P_R]

Adhaavandhu ivlo page Anappuramum oru inconvenient pointukku cleverA ignore pandraar. How is it natural for a cricketer to toggle between ireland and England? How is that fair? Playing for both countries within a month - IPL-la kooda ipdi nadakkAdhu. Ivlo kevalamaana velai ellam pannuvaangalaam - adhu naturalaam. Ivaru thappunnu othukkave maattaaraam. Adhu apdiye logicalA. Rabbit 3 legs. Ireland-England ellAm oNNukkuLLa oNNu. Ireland kaaranga aruvadai mudinjadhum, summA irukkarudhukku badhilA ENgland viLayAduradhula endha thappum illlai.

[wizzy]

^Northern Ireland-um unga jurisdiction-a :huh:

[ajithfederer]

:rotfl2:. This is quite a new low.

My old boss is Irish and he hates nothing more than England.

Ireland-England ellAm oNNukkuLLa oNNu.

[P_R]

Australiakaarankku kooda dhaan England-ai pudikkAdhu. adhukkAga avainga oNNukkuLLa oNNu illai-nu aayirumA.
neenga ellAm purinjum puriyAdha mAdhiriyE maindain paNReengaLE
Pattinson kudumbamE reNdA pirinju oNNu pazhanikku pOyiruchchu. idhellAm avaingaLukku sappai matter.

[ajithfederer]

Adhu vera idhu vera :fatigue:. I can't take a history class now.
Your 2nd line applies to you.

Australiakaarankku kooda dhaan England-ai pudikkAdhu. adhukkAga avainga oNNukkuLLa oNNu illai-nu aayirumA.

[P_R]

Michael Collins, Sinn Fein ellAm dham kattinaalum underlying vishayam idhu dhaan.
ingErndhu ange, angErndhu inga vandhu cricket aaduradhu pallANdu kaala vazhakkam.

[P_R]

Gayle pulls out of Somerset to play for WI - http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/content/current/story/563553.html

Good contest ahead :clap:

[ajithfederer]

Cricket vazhakkama irukkalam. Aana onnukulla rendu rendukulla moonu nnu solradhellam :lol2:

[P_R]

Of course I meant ciricket parivarththanai only.
maththapadi adichikkattum, namakkenna pOchchu.

[ajithfederer]

Kandupudichavangalai loose-la vittutingala ?? :lol2:.



T20 ozhiyaNum, chucking ozhiyaNum - adhai vaLarththu vittavanunga ellAm manam puzhungi shaavaNum - idhai pOnRa nalleNgaLai thaviRa vERonRum aRiyEn paraaparamE

[ajithfederer]

What do yo think about the recent demands by English players?. I don't think ECB wll give into them given the fact that IPL is already minting money. They need a Villain to keep up their act.

[Plum]

Stuff and nonsense - in football, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland are all separate teams. So is Scotland. So is South Africa. Same in Rugby. Cricketla mattum ipdi nadandhA adhu odd illaiyA? Ninga solradhu avlo naturalnA maththa sportlalAm En ipdi nadakka mAttEngudhu. Don't you think you are being stupid when you claim irishmen playing for Englad is natural? ValikkAdha mAdhiriyE evlo nEram nadikka pORinga?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Stuff and nonsense - in football, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland are all separate teams. So is Scotland. So is South Africa. Same in Rugby. Cricketla mattum ipdi nadandhA adhu odd illaiyA?

Exactly! Only in Cricket they have players born outside England, this is more like county teams or foot ball teams (Chelsea, Man U, Man City etc). So how can this team be called the English National team ?

When it comes to English Football, it is all English players (born in England).

[ajithfederer]

That has got to do with who administers the sport. Indha nadhariga dhaane adhayum panrardhu/.

[Plum]

2 strong rebuttal posts were swallowed in a hub error message. Feeyar tongue plucking mAdhiri sila kELvigaL ketturundhen ellaam pOchu :(Will try again later

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Cricket ku oru rule , Football ku ennoru rule ah ?
ethO thanga convenience ku etha mathiri Rules and Regulartions ah mathiri orE naadu, Ingilaand thaan

[wizzy]

Vengala kuralon..TMS isn't the same w/o him :-(
http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/145200/145294.jpg

[PARAMASHIVAN]

wizzy

Yaar intha photo la ?

[P_R]

michcha sports-ai ellAm oru poruttA madhichchu naan karuththu solluvEn-nu enna oru edhirpArppu :lol2:
Cricket-ku oru paarambariyam irukku, rugby paththi theriyAdhu. And yes, England is different from other countries.

[P_R]

enna naakka pudingkkiRa maadhiri?
If Eng can do this why not India too - type same kostin dhaan kEttirppeenga.
Goose-Gander lEdhu, ithi gaanamayil-vaankOzhi. nallA purinjikkung..

[wizzy]

PS, adhu Henry Blofeld

[PARAMASHIVAN]

PS, adhu Henry Blofeld

ok :)

[wizzy]

Vazhga jananayagam..Valarga mannar aatchi ;-)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-new-zealand-2012/content/current/story/563544.html

[Plum]

P-r's muyal has muppadhu kaalgaL.ulaguthula vERa edhukkumE porundhAdha, vEra edhulayum illaadha behaviour naturalAm. Idhu logiccAm. MakkaLE, naan onnum sollalai. Ungalukellaam sindhanai thiRan irukku - indha cold amoral illogic-ai pArththu sirichuttu pOnga.

[Plum]

Idhellaam vetti discussion. Somone find N Seenu's mail-id. It is high time I got introduced to him. BCCI-la pugundhu indha veLLaikAra dash-hgaLai Oda Oda viratta vEndiya kaalam vandhAchu. Wizzy, kamaanyA find seenu maama's mail-id. Enakku sila ideas irukku.... Ovvoru moveum prabhu ramarukku peedhiya keLappaNum. Test cricket uru theriyAma adikkaNum. VERa nAdhi illAma oNNu ivaru putbol pAkka ArambikkaNum illaina kannaalam kattikittu kozhandhai kuttinu settle AvaNum. :aagattumpaarkkalaamaattathinmudivile:

[P_R]

Vazhga jananayagam..Valarga mannar aatchi ;-)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-new-zealand-2012/content/current/story/563544.html
Natural.

idhai England edhirththu hegemonize paNNa ninaichchA - kaNdanam theRivippEn
idhai follow paNNi India hire paNNA - neththiyila adichukittu sirippEn.

[wizzy]

^the day is not far off when a Eng player drifts to OZ and helps them to reclaim the urn :mrgreen: think BCCI has greater talent pool/pride to pull off something like this..may be if and when IPL helps to transcend the borders and we get some export quality padosi phast bowlers.

[Plum]

Natural.

idhai England edhirththu hegemonize paNNa ninaichchA - kaNdanam theRivippEn
idhai follow paNNi India hire paNNA - neththiyila adichukittu sirippEn.


ulaguthula unga sport mattum dhAn sportA? ugnaLukkumattum dhAn traditionA? unga sportla mattum nadakkaRadhu dhAn naturalA? adhuvum ungALunga paNdradhu mattum traiditional/natural? ivanunga dhAn poRandhAnungaLA? Parading your idiocy as logic - thangaLukkE vEdikkayAa illai? 36 vayasu thAndavE mAttIngaLAdA?

[P_R]

I don't know about other traditions in other sports.
That others possibly don't care about theirs is no argument.

vekkaththulErndhu vEdikkaikku vandhirukkeenga. Good.

[Plum]

enna idiocy idhu? Why do you obfuscate? The point we are making is about your claim that it is natural(combined with the corollary that india doing it will not be natural). if something that happens in your sport alone is natural for you, why not a new paradigm in India converting aussie bowlers not natural?

ulaguthulEyE ninga mattum paNdradhu naturalngarInga? (And what your sport does is not consistent with what happens in other sports - so every reason to call your behaviour unnatural). adhu dhAn epdingaREn? Only fossible with a delusionary mindset which you are probably embracing just for this purpose.

[P_R]

why not a new paradigm in India converting aussie bowlers not natural? kELviyilEyE badhil irukkiRadhE



(And what your sport does is not consistent with what happens in other sports - so every reason to call your behaviour unnatural). adhu dhAn epdingaREn? Only fossible with a delusionary mindset which you are probably embracing just for this purpose.
Dunno about other sports-nu sonnEn.
For eg, if football says someone born in Aus can never play in England - then it is 'unnatural' because it refuses to engage with how porous things have always been.

[P_R]

btw Shakib Al Hasan's cousin, Ajmal's siththappAru magan all playing for India is not odd.
indha point-ai kaNdukkavE mAttEndreengaLE

[P_R]

To clarify, T20 is only one the problems. Even if IPL became a ODI tournament, I can't watch, because CSK != TN. Bollinger,Raina playing under Dhoni for 'Chennai' will always feel like a circus to me. Involve ellAm aaga mudiyAdhu.

[wizzy]

P_R colour variya pirikarutha avalavu nalla ellai..muzhukka nannaiyanum..if a Brendon Nash can play for Windies/Devon Malcolm for Eng..subcontinental sides-ku mattum enn entha paarabatchum :neutral:

[P_R]

Nothing to feel uncomfy about.
Tony Cozier maadhiri WIndians are there no? Brendon Nash appAru JamaicavO, TrindadO.

[wizzy]

If IPL goes on to mint money for players it might propel a cricket immigration so a Jamaican/Trinidadian could go on to play for India in the near future..athukaga thaen entha conditioning ellam :-)

[P_R]

appo dhaaraaLamA paNNikkunga. kuththam solla mAttEn.
mudhallErndhE idhai thaanEyyA sollittu varEn :huh:

[wizzy]

let me get this right for a white/black to play for India you ask for a IPL based natural immigration whilst it is perfectly normal to signup/steal Ajmal's bro even if he had played first class cricket for pakistan :huh:

[P_R]

Yes. Exactly.
There are many Pak, Bang folks working in India. So make someone Indian citizens and they are good to go.
Not enough phoreners. It'll take a while. If and when that happens, then that'd be good to go too.

[wizzy]

whatay..apppo Warner/Pattinson were picked/identified by their respective IPL franchises even before they made their first class debut so effectively ethvum IPL based natural immigration thane?

[P_R]

Indiavula niRaiya veLLaikkAranga vElai seyyura varaikkin, India team-ku avinga viLayAda koodAdhu. That's all.

[P_R]

The clients in this meeting who think I am taking notes are Irish, Swedish, Italian, Pakistani working in Canada. All of them can play for the Canadian team. It won't be odd.
Just imagine such a mix for India :lol:

[wizzy]

enna kodumai edhu Warner/Pattison ought to wait till the vellaikaraa population reaches a threshold eventhough they fall into category of IPL based natural immigration and they have the right to choose which country they play for(ICC rules)..engayo edikuthu

[P_R]

Allowed according to the rules. dhArALamA seyyalaam.
seyyunga. sandhOsamA irunga.

[P_R]

All of you are totally sold on the 'new paradigm'. I am going into the future sulking and kicking and screaming.

[wizzy]

Danks </discussion> from my side..nallaikku Plum rally start pannuvar :lol2:

[P_R]

I think we all understand each other but disagree. That's all.

To quote something I said a few posts back

Plum/wizzy--> Eng:Ind::goose::gander sama urimai engaL moochchu. pazhayana kazhidhal vENdum
I yam---------> Eng: Ind:: gaanamayil:vaankOzhi
annaiyum pidhAvum munneri dheivam

[wizzy]

P_R If I extend your logic it will lead to much maligned Proteas selection policy(on affirmative action) w.r.t national team being representative of the society :-) We want selection done purely on merit :mrgreen:

[P_R]

I anticipated this and answered several days ago.
No team needs to be proportionally representative but it should atleast remotely be. Thassal.

[P_R]

btw malign ellAm, the likes of KP paNRadhu. Not me. A peer white African team is the kind of tradition that should be taken down, the way it is being done now.

[Plum]

If this were I899: In india the tradition is for dalits to kooni kuRugi odhungufy when DINgs are around. Adhu dhaane kaalam kaalamaa nadakkudhu. Adhai ozhikkaRadhu thappu kEttELA? Munaf (and possibly even harbhajan) should remove their shirt and thundai iduppula kattikkaNum in the presence of SRT. Tradition, you see. Feeyar threshold pArththu solRachE dhaan idhu mARaNum. Avaru social study ellaam panni time solluvaar. Adhu varaikkin ipdiyE maindain paNNunga. Most kammannaattithanams in history have been made in the name of "tradition", "ulaga vazhakkam dhaanungaLE". England are experts in this. No wonder their representative in India is resorting to such communitythanam arguments....

[P_R]

Aamaam-la, repressive inhuman treatment = people flitting across borders for generations

[P_R]

Plum, it takes great talent to read around this

btw malign ellAm, the likes of KP paNRadhu. Not me. A peer white African team is the kind of tradition that should be taken down, the way it is being done now. and immediately below that post what you posted :lol2:

summA, eppadi solli oru manusanai malign paNNalaamnu pArkka vENdiyadhu. avan solRa uyariya karuththukaLai kaadhu kuduththu kEppOm, aazhndha sindhanaigaLai uLvaangikkuvOm, namma vERuppu saarndha kurugiya nOkkai virivipaduththikkuvOm...appadingra eNNamE kidaiyAdhu.

[wizzy]

P_R no one can stop a talent to find its way through...affirmative action based selection should be done at the juniors to propagate the game across various levels of the society..the intent should be to offer a level playing field at juniors..with the current SA policy Alviro Petersen/Ashwell Prince are confirmed of a place in the national side however crap they might be whilst the likes of KP/Trott should trot around for opportunities..this selection also brackets the likes of Amla/Philander who got in purely on the weight of domestic performance to quota selection.. how fair is that..national team enna parliament'a quota vechi players-a recruit panna.. ethulla enga proportionally representative vanthathu...if in a year coloured SA players weren't good enough to represent SA int. side then hard luck but how does it make that side less representative of the society..the likes of Kallis/Abdv ellam mannin maindhargal thane//

P.S Nalaikke if Mulayam Singh/Digvijay Singh demand that that Indian cricket team should always include 2 peeps from minority community as means to reflect/represent the society we live in..unga analogy padi edhu accepted-a :huh:

[P_R]

oru expediting dhaan.
idhellAm avinga argue paNNikkattum. Divert paNNaadhEl.
ennaiyai oru veLLaiya/aangila adivarudi 'nRa maadhiri inga oruththar pEsittu irukkAr. Subtleties purinjum puriyAdha mAdhiriyE maindain paNNittu irukkaar.
avarukku sonnEn. I am saying these kind of departures from tradition are understandable. The merits of the mechanics can be debated. But tradition should not be the reason to say, we have never had reservation, so we should never have.

[wizzy]

idhellAm avinga argue paNNikkattum. Divert paNNaadhEl.

prachanainu vandhutta :-)


ennaiyai oru veLLaiya/aangila adivarudi 'nRa maadhiri inga oruththar pEsittu irukkAr.

naane sollalam eruthaen :ashamed:


But tradition should not be the reason to say, we have never had reservation, so we should never have.

seri eppo point blank-a sollunga..its been a while since a black Englishmen played/represented ECB..edhukku oru reservation kondu varlamay and extending it to browns later.. evangla mattum enn choice-la udringae..all part of the same plural society :huh:

[P_R]

Chris Lewis, Alex Tudor, Dean Headley
Case closed on the basis of 'need'.

But koNdu varaNumnA ninaichAngannA dhArALamA paNNikkattum. uLLoor maNNin maindhargaL prachanai, namakku enna vandhuchchu.

[wizzy]

argh..adhu oru token representation..eppo their numbers would have surely increased and reached your threshold :-)..yam trying to pin-down that national side can never be representative of the society..blasphemous to expect it to be..kavala padathinga ECB isn't dumb enough to hatch a scheme that would deter them from competing.

[P_R]

argh..adhu oru token representation..eppo their numbers would have surely increased and reached your threshold :-)..yam trying to pin-down that national side can never be representative of the society..blasphemous to expect it to be..kavala padathinga ECB isn't dumb enough to hatch a scheme that would deter them from competing.

ippadi ellAm solluveengannu therinju dhaan, proportional representation edhirpArkkak koodaadhu-nu ezhudhi irukkEn.
naan ezhudhuradhai padikkiradhE illaiyaakkum? :huh:

veLLaikaaran indhiyakku viLayAdak koodaadhuyyA. Rules-na, rules- dhaan.

Shakib thambiyai kooptukkunga-nnu sonnA, adhai oru poruttAvE madhikka mAttEngreengaLE.

[wizzy]

seri even remotely so :-)..Indian Kabaddi team which competed in Asian/Saf games is effectively Punjab/Haryana state team adhukkaga avungla boycot pannuvingla..that that sport that that men no..ellae vida pidiya Badrinath types kabaddi attathula serthukitta thaen support pannuvingala :lol:

[Plum]

Sellaadhu. "I am being illogical but that's due to my prejudice"-nu sollittu unga natural immigration theorya sollunga. OththukkaROm. Evrything's fine in your logic except the muyal-30kaal insistence that qualification criteria(legal and icc laws) cannot be sufficient for a player to play for a country - it is not an Indian team, btw. We all call it the bcci team, don't we? Idhu oru glorified club cricket dhaan - idhula edhukku sociology, zoologylaam kondu varinga? I can't see any other reason than to defend the position that you have taken and inability to accept that it is clearly illogical. Reminder again: a player plays for Ireland and England within the same month. Idhukku ninga badhil sollave illai - very natural, aint it?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Plum ,

P_R may ban you, paathu kavanam :lol:

[Plum]

I take it you feel lousy about Robin Singh, that bogus Indian from Trinidad, playing for TN/India? More questions: e nick Sajid Mahmood, Ajmal Shahzad, Adil Rashid etc from England? Owais Shah? Ravi Bopara? Heck, these nay not be England hopefuls but I guess we can especially do with Shahzad, thank u. Any day not worse than Ishant etc. Do we have your permission?

[P_R]

seri even remotely so :-)..Indian Kabaddi team which competed in Asian/Saf games is effectively Punjab/Haryana state team adhukkaga avungla boycot pannuvingla..that that sport that that men no..ellae vida pidiya Badrinath types kabaddi attathula serthukitta thaen support pannuvingala :lol:
Of course. But there has always been 'opportunity' here. In SA that was not the case. Hence they are trying something. Again - I am not saying their method is perfect - but one can see the justification.


a player plays for Ireland and England within the same month. Idhukku ninga badhil sollave illai - very natural, aint it? Very natural....avingaLukku. England-Ireland ellAm same to same to same, nu pallAyiram thadavai sollittEn.

[P_R]

I take it you feel lousy about Robin Singh, that bogus Indian from Trinidad, playing for TN/India? More questions: e nick Sajid Mahmood, Ajmal Shahzad, Adil Rashid etc from England? Owais Shah? Ravi Bopara? Heck, these nay not be England hopefuls but I guess we can especially do with Shahzad, thank u. Any day not worse than Ishant etc. Do we have your permission? Ah Robin! paththu naaL dham katti pEsunadhula idhu dhaan first uruppadiyAna point. Rules padi enakku 'odd'A thONiyirukkaNum. Of course he came here as a kid, naturalized etc. By the same logic I would be fine with all the SAsians you mention- to a large extent I am fine with seeing then naturalized.

Then if one-generation is okay, how about multiple generations---Sewnarines, Ragoonaths - there I say nevaire.

Closest approximation to - foreigner India-la viLayAda koodaadhuyyA.

Here again I should qualify - there are the rarest of rare cases foreigners who happen to be in India. Like kids who grow up here. I hope you don't think I am for preventing them from playing cricket in India.

Exclusively hiring from outside 'for' cricket when we can't/don't do that for any other field (Kingfisher aeroplane pilot??) is odd to me. You are saying why can't cricket-led immigration happen. I don't see it as 'true' immigration. People coming here, not making it their home and doing it for - as wizzy says - 'mercenary' reasons. Whereas a KP or a Trott could be like any other Londoner.

idhukku mEla solradhukku edhuvumE illai. I think we perfectly understand each other's PoV.

[Plum]

No, you clearly are refusing to acknowledge a valid point. Ia m not going to leave you just like that - first be honest - then we can call truces.

[Plum]

Aamaam-la, repressive inhuman treatment = people flitting across borders for generations

Why are you misrepresenting? My point is against your arbitrary definition of "natural" immigration. It exists nowhere but your mind - not even the ingenious Englishmen who fruit-eating-seed-throwers in such obfuscation have thought of your (admittedly) pre-emptive strike. Your adamancy in the face of logic is commendably English. You keep protesting that I call you Englishman of India - well, you have every quality to be called an Englishman. So, even if you protest that you are supporting Test Cricket not British monarchy, you have exhibited sufficient mule-headed fancy (il)logic with arbitary definitions of concepts to suit your current position.

Evne the stand that you keep flaunting as "munnamEyE sollittEn" is cleraly a well-thought out pre-emptive defence - which is a very English trait.


You shouldnt feel insulted to be called as one with English attributes, should you?

[Plum]

Exclusively hiring from outside 'for' cricket when we can't/don't do that for any other field (Kingfisher aeroplane pilot??) is odd to me. You are saying why can't cricket-led immigration happen. I don't see it as 'true' immigration. People coming here, not making it their home and doing it for - as wizzy says - 'mercenary' reasons. Whereas a KP or a Trott could be like any other Londoner.

What kind of idiotic argument is this? If an Englishman has to qualify for India, he has to stay in India 183 days for 4 consecutive years. That's what the ICC requires - ofcourse, they'll relax it for themselves but surely when they see reverse-brain=drain, they'll uphold this law to the word - which means if an Englishman qualifies per ICC requirements for India, he'd have soaked India in him sufficiently. That should be enough, Ofcourse, except in your mind - which is just your personal idiosyncracy. I have my own idiosyncrasies - atleast, i dont argue that those idiosyncratic beliefs are "national character" or "natural trait".

Mark Tully is an odd case working in India - before and after him, no British journalist has made India his home. Per your logic, he should never have been allowed to stay on in India and make India his home.

Basically, if you think even one-inch deep, your position is untenable



Reviving the Dr Vijay analogy, I dont like Vijay movies, I wish a flop for him every time he releases a movie but if a DMK government resorted to unfair means to prevent release of his movie, my sympthies would be with him. I wouldnt crow and celebrtate that releasing a Vijay movie was prevented evne if by unfair means.

That is how it should be - infact, I believe you are also fair enough in that manner. It is just that you are resorting to vidhandavaadham in this issue and are unwilling to back off.

(Bertie Wooster: "We may be biased but we are fair".)

[P_R]

No, you clearly are refusing to acknowledge a valid point. Ia m not going to leave you just like that - first be honest - then we can call truces.
naanum thaayaaru.

[Plum]

Sewnarines, Ragoonaths

infact, good idea. Ravi Rampaul is struggling to nail down a place in the Windies XI - thanks to Darren Saamynaadhan being a captain and an automatic choice.


WIZZY _ kaamaaan, get me Seenu maama's mail-id please. This seems too good an idea to not implement. avaru test cricketlAm kavalai pada mAttArungaRIngaLA? ada, CSK-ku oru indian fast bowler kedaippAnnu dhoobam pOdalAm. kamaanyA, ivLO argue paNNadhula, feeyarE namakku oru nalla practical idea koduthirukkAr.

[P_R]

Why are you misrepresenting? 19th century-la naan oppressionai adharippEnnu sollittu, ennaiyA misrepresent 'ngreenga. :lol2:

My point is against your arbitrary definition of "natural" immigration. It exists nowhere but your mind - not even the ingenious Englishmen who fruit-eating-seed-throwers in such obfuscation have thought of your (admittedly) pre-emptive strike. oru arbitrary-yum illai. History-ai paarunga. Who has come to India for work? 'Let this be a start' 'ngreenga. No 'ngREn. That is all.


Your adamancy in the face of logic is commendably English.
neenga solradhu dhaan logic
adhai oththukkalainnA English-nu thittuveenga


You keep protesting that I call you Englishman of India - well, you have every quality to be called an Englishman. So, even if you protest that you are supporting Test Cricket not British monarchy, you have exhibited sufficient mule-headed fancy (il)logic with arbitary definitions of concepts to suit your current position.
Oh Englishman was shorthand for this-A? Then fine.
But adhu makkaLukku puriyAdhillaiyA. avunga ennai yEdhO anglophile-nu thappA ninaichchuttA. adhukku dhaan theLivupaduththuREn.


Evne the stand that you keep flaunting as "munnamEyE sollittEn" is cleraly a well-thought out pre-emptive defence - which is a very English trait.
I don't know if it is an exclusively English trait. You think it is a 'bad' thing and thus like to call it English. That's all.
But I need to keep reminding you because you ask the questions which I have already answered, seek acknowledgement for something I have already acknowledged.
padikkAma pEsureengaLonnu oru davuttu.



You shouldnt feel insulted to be called as one with English attributes, should you?
Again, a mischeivous suggestion.
This suggests that I would happy to be associated with all English attributes, even 'bad' ones - when I have been crying hoarse in protestation, which Plum pretends to acknowledge. So you have got it in your head that there is a heavy dose of aspirational Anglophilia in all this. Else you will NOT be making such a statement.

[P_R]

What kind of idiotic argument is this? If an Englishman has to qualify for India, he has to stay in India 183 days for 4 consecutive years. That's what the ICC requires - ofcourse, they'll relax it for themselves but surely when they see reverse-brain=drain, they'll uphold this law to the word - which means if an Englishman qualifies per ICC requirements for India, he'd have soaked India in him sufficiently. That should be enough, Ofcourse, except in your mind - which is just your personal idiosyncracy. I have my own idiosyncrasies - atleast, i dont argue that those idiosyncratic beliefs are "national character" or "natural trait".

[QUOTE]Mark Tully is an odd case working in India - before and after him, no British journalist has made India his home. Per your logic, he should never have been allowed to stay on in India and make India his home. You are clearly NOT reading ANYTHING I am writing. I have no prob with Tullys and Dalrymples. India for Indians-nu sonna maadhiri solreenga?? I made the most extreme case that I am fine with Sonia becoming the PM of India - something that'll make a good part of the nation foam in the mouth. I just don't want to see a veLLaikkaara mercenary open the Indian attack. Of course there will be exceptions (been in India since I was a kid etc.) but as a rule, going out and hiring the gen-next from SA,Aus is not something India should do, just because Aus/NZ/Eng do it. They are different, they have people flitting across borders always. It will be novel for us.

It's about time we also did -nu ninaikkureenga pOla. I don't think so.



Reviving the Dr Vijay analogy, I dont like Vijay movies, I wish a flop for him every time he releases a movie but if a DMK government resorted to unfair means to prevent release of his movie, my sympthies would be with him. I wouldnt crow and celebrtate that releasing a Vijay movie was prevented evne if by unfair means.

That is how it should be - infact, I believe you are also fair enough in that manner. It is just that you are resorting to vidhandavaadham in this issue and are unwilling to back off.

I answered this already (ippadi sonnA vERa ungaLukku kOvam vandhurudhu). You are more democratic and tolerant than I am in certain things. When something painfully ugly and egregious happening will have me cheer when something is done to prevent it.

Members of parliament are banned from playing T20-nu BJP oru arbitrary rule koNdu vandhA, aduththa election avaingaLukku kooda vote pOduvEn :lol2:

[Plum]

Does your logic apply to this forum? enna dakalti vENA paNNi enakku pidikkAdha vishayangaL indha forumla nadakkAdha mAdhiri paNNalAmA? unga kattupAttula irukkaRA indha kOttaila, nAnga enga convenience, enga beliefskERpa ellai meeralamA? ada, assume it suits your preferencesnyu vechukkunga - appO naan enna dakalti vENA paNNAlAma indha forumla?

puriyAdhavanaLaukku - suppose some dakalti I do in this forum suits Feeyar's belief and suits his vision of things, will he turn a blind eye to my dakalti, naadhari velais here? (romba sootchumamA kEkkaREn, yOsichu badhil sollunga)
oru vAtti commit paNNittIngnnA, nAn roadu pOtturuven

[Plum]

ellaam saaljaappu. You have just obfuscated - you havent answered.

[wizzy]

P_R unga colour matching theory is devoid of any logic and Robin Singh was a Trini who happen to play for TN/India..avaru ok-na Rampaul ok thane

Plum. naan yenna mail id vechikinna vanjagam pandraen :lol:..pliss to dial-Satish for these delikate matters

[Plum]

India - something that'll make a good part of the nation foam in the mouth. I just don't want to see a veLLaikkaara mercenary open the Indian attack. Of course there will be exceptions (been in India since I was a kid etc.) but as a rule, going out and hiring the gen-next from SA,Aus is not something India should do, just because Aus/NZ/Eng do it. They are different, they have people flitting across borders always. It will be novel for us.


indha dakalti dhAnE vENAmgaRadhu, idhukku dhAN ding example sonNEn. You are defining what is natural and what is not natural for a subsection of people. DINGsum adhE dhAn senjAnga - presuming on behalf of the natural order. You cleverly misrepresented my position and issued an hollow rebuttal of a point I didnt make....


You stop misrepresenting first - appuRam I will stop

[Plum]

P_R unga colour matching theory is devoid of any logic and Robin Singh was a Trini who happen to play for TN/India..avaru ok-na Rampaul ok thane

Plum. naan yenna mail id vechikinna vanjagam pandraen :lol:..pliss to dial-Satish for these delikate matters


Robin Singh came when he was a kid it seems :lol: - I am 100% sure he made that knowing fully well that it is not the case. I am 100% sure that he just made it up as he goes just becuase it seemed like a good rebuttal :rotfl:

[Plum]

yOv wizzy - TNCA circlesla neRaiya influence irukkumE umakku? illaiyA?

SatissharE - nIngaLavadhu konjam help paNNunga. Indian cricket-ai thala keezha puratti pOttudalAm.

[P_R]

Does your logic apply to this forum? enna dakalti vENA paNNi enakku pidikkAdha vishayangaL indha forumla nadakkAdha mAdhiri paNNalAmA? unga kattupAttula irukkaRA indha kOttaila, nAnga enga convenience, enga beliefskERpa ellai meeralamA? ada, assume it suits your preferencesnyu vechukkunga - appO naan enna dakalti vENA paNNAlAma indha forumla?

puriyAdhavanaLaukku - suppose some dakalti I do in this forum suits Feeyar's belief and suits his vision of things, will he turn a blind eye to my dakalti, naadhari velais here? (romba sootchumamA kEkkaREn, yOsichu badhil sollunga)
oru vAtti commit paNNittIngnnA, nAn roadu pOtturuven

No, of course not.
Consistency ellAm yEn yA edhirppArkkureenga? Ref. Sonia Gandhi.

[Plum]

Consistency, logiclAm EnyA edhir pArkareengannu sollunga. If you put it that way, then you have effectively admitted to my framing of the charges. Hence, proved. MakkaLE, guilty as charged-nu ivarE othukittAr.

[P_R]

P_R unga colour matching theory is devoid of any logic and Robin Singh was a Trini who happen to play for TN/India..avaru ok-na Rampaul ok thane

True. That is why I said that was the first good point Plum has made in a week.
I am okay with Robin. But worried that this will mean I have to be okay with Rampaul or imports for the case of cricket.
What is Robin's history-geography? Did he come over here for cricket only? illai podhuvA vandhu, piRagu cricket viLayAdinaarA.



You cleverly misrepresented my position and issued an hollow rebuttal of a point I didnt make....
NO Plum, your stand is 'if England can hire Saffers, so can India'. That IS your point. That is exactly what I am rebutting. enna hollow? enna misrepresentation?

[Plum]

What about the Robin Singh faux pas - fact ennannu therinjukkAmalE asadu Pesittu vazhiya vENDi irukKE adhai konjam urakka admit paNNikkunga pAppOm :rotfl:

[P_R]

Consistency, logiclAm EnyA edhir pArkareengannu sollunga. If you put it that way, then you have effectively admitted to my framing of the charges. Hence, proved. MakkaLE, guilty as charged-nu ivarE othukittAr. pooh! idhai thaan anju naaL munnAdiyE oththukkittEnE. (avanE sonnAn). Basically, padikkAma vandhu kELvi kEkkureenga.
Sonia Gandhi selected, Albie Morkel unselected - idhai vida oru glaring inconsistency irukkumA??

idhukkA dham kattineenga :huh:

[wizzy]

P_R Robin Singh kitta thatta Trott case thaen...father namma allu..for all reasons Robin is culturally/geographically/accent wise Trini thaen..you really ought to mull over your colour matching theory...all is not White/Black :mrgreen:

[P_R]

What about the Robin Singh faux pas - fact ennannu therinjukkAmalE asadu Pesittu vazhiya vENDi irukKE adhai konjam urakka admit paNNikkunga pAppOm :rotfl:
Admitted.
Robin story enna? :oops:
enakku avar moonji romba pudikkumE.

[P_R]

P_R Robin Singh kitta thatta Trott case thaen...father namma allu..for all reasons Robin is culturally/geographically/accent wise Trini thaen..you really ought to mull over your colour matching theory...all is not White/Black :mrgreen:

Let me put it this way. My reasoning is is reverse.
Under no circumstance do I want India hiring Saffers for the express purpose of team bolstering. England/Aus/NZ can. We shouldn't. This is non-negotiable.

To do that I have to take a position which prevents external hiring from 'unnatural' teams.
So I want to ensure it is not-okay to hire Rampaul. But I see your point that that will need to oppose Robin - whose moonji I like a lot, quite possibly my favourite TN cricketer ever.
What is the way to reconcile my being-at-peace, heck even liking, for Robin with my opposition for watching Tsotsobe and Morkel open the bowling for India.
Where do I draw a line? satrE sindhikka vENdiya vishayam. Thank you for it.

[Plum]

idhai thaan 10 nALA sollikittirukkOm - your piosition is reverse-engineererdnu. ivlo naal you didnt admit - innikku pOttu vetta veLicham AkkinavunE othukittEnga.haabbaada!

Basically, you reverse-engineered to reach what you state as your ideals after starting off from a desired outcome - so all your natural immigratione tc is a bogus argument. fulyl exposed, thanks

[wizzy]

P_R kavalai venaam...naturalize avrathu rombae easy..Robin is Alwarpet Anjaneyar temple frequent visitor..paarka paarka pazhagidum :thumbsup:

[Plum]

edhukku Wizzykku thanbks? Robin Singh point-ai koNdu vandhu unga agakaNNai thiRandhudhu iyAm dhAen.

[P_R]

idhai thaan 10 nALA sollikittirukkOm - your piosition is reverse-engineererdnu. ivlo naal you didnt admit - innikku pOttu vetta veLicham AkkinavunE othukittEnga.haabbaada!

Basically, you reverse-engineered to reach what you state as your ideals after starting off from a desired outcome - so all your natural immigratione tc is a bogus argument. fulyl exposed, thanks
But what is the source of my ideals. adhai sindhikka vENdaamA?
Why does it not rankle me to think of Tsotsobe and Morkel open the bowling for Aus or NZ? Because they are like that only. We are not like that.
adhai purinjikka mAttEngreengaLE.

And you are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the difference in the situations.

[P_R]

edhukku Wizzykku thanbks? Robin Singh point-ai koNdu vandhu unga agakaNNai thiRandhudhu iyAm dhAen.
All of you dhaan. pangu pirichukkunga.

[P_R]

edhukku Wizzykku thanbks? Robin Singh point-ai koNdu vandhu unga agakaNNai thiRandhudhu iyAm dhAen.
kaN ellAm thoRakkalai. prachchanaikku innoru dimensionai kaattitteer.

maththapadi Eng paNraangradhukkaaga Ind,SL SA juniors-ai hire paNNA edhirkka dhaan seyvEn.

[Plum]

Because they are like that only. We are not like that.

ingE "that"-ku padam varaindhu baagam kuRikka


All of you dhaan. pangu pirichukkunga
Actually, ungaLukku dhAn credit kodukkaNum, Sewnarine-nu post pOttu, Ravi Rampaul gnAbagam vara vechu, angErundhu Robin Singhku jump paNNa kAraNamA irundhadhu your sewnarine post only.

I remembered pretty well that Robin was your favourite - appOvE game set and match namakku dhaan-nu mudivu paNNittEn :lol:

[wizzy]

P_R namma oor pet lovers have successfully naturalized vellaikara Pug/Rottweiler breeds which was deemed unthinkable some years ago so manam irunthal margabanthu..
Tsotsobe opening bowling for OZ/NZ doesn't rankle you :confused2: how is India different from either of these countries.

[Plum]

maththapadi Eng paNraangradhukkaaga Ind,SL SA juniors-ai hire paNNA edhirkka dhaan seyvEn.

ada, ingE dhan you are misreprsenting my positiongarEn. I am not saying your edhirppu doesnt have nyaayam. All I am resenting is your representation of your edhirppu as a consequence of your resolve to keep the "natural" order of this earth, while our edhirppu to Eng etc doing it is against the "natural" order. maththabadi, edhirthukkonga, yaaru vENAmnA? unga edhirpellAm oru matterA? Infact, if sattish gives me N Seenu maama's mail id, I hope to set a series of actions in motion (ellaam valla iRaivan aruL irundhAl) that will shock and awe the cricket world :lol:

[P_R]

Tsotsobe opening bowling for OZ/NZ doesn't rankle you :confused2: how is India different from either of these countries. SAfricans will go work in first world countries not India. England for sure. Aus/NZ , quite imaginable. Dipak Patel, Jitan Patel maadhiri oru Tsotsobe-vai avinga uLLa izhuththukkuvAinga.

[P_R]

ingE "that"-ku padam varaindhu baagam kuRikka
Porous, multinational, with less regard for borders even in everyday lives than we have to accord.
Darren Pattinson-James Pattinson.
puriyAdha mAdhiriyE maRupadi maRupadi kEkkuRadhu.

[P_R]

All I am resenting is your representation of your edhirppu as a consequence of your resolve to keep the "natural" order of this earth, while our edhirppu to Eng etc doing it is against the "natural" order.
Cricket kaNdupudicha kaalathulErndhu colonies feeding Eng nadandhukittE irukkuRa oNNu. adhai natural illai-nu neenga eppadi sollalaam?