Maestro Ilaiyaraja New Albums 2011 - Hello Jaihind / Sri Rama Rajyam

[Shankar.P]

http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/Hotnews/2011/mar/280311d.asp

very promising & encouraging reports... excited...eagerly awaits for the release

[thumburu]

Appadiye oru theme music includ epanna koranja povaanga ... v poor marketing package !!

I pin my very high hopes on the Nithyashree number which should be a carnatic treat.
IMO, the Bombay Jaishree-Sudha Raghunathan dance number "abhinayam kaattukindra" from "ULiyin Oasai" is the best single composed by Raja in the last few years . Today no MD has the caliber to come up with such carnatic delights . Let Yuvan or the mighty ARR take this challenge and prove me wrong here. I would be happy. Raja needs a successor

[Sureshs65]

thumburu,

Yes. I am also waiting for the Nithyasree number. Let me see what 'heights' she reaches in this song :) Somehow I think Raja would have moderated her and not allowed her to go for high pitched singing but you never know. I don't think there is anyone in the current lot who understands Carnatic music as much as Raja does. Atleast not in Tamil.

[jaiganes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pvPT8jasiY&feature=relmfu
kalaignar all praise for Ilaiyaraaja.
seems to be from the bottom of his heart and Raaja also very comfortable sitting next to Kalaignar.
Raja earlier sang a song from Marma yogi - seems to have been inspired from that to compose azhagar samiyin kuthirai - why?
because the song was about a "Donkey" penned by Kalaignar... very funny song that one..

[venkkiram]

I pin my very high hopes on the Nithyashree number which should be a carnatic treat. IMO, the Bombay Jaishree-Sudha Raghunathan dance number "abhinayam kaattukindra" from "ULiyin Oasai" is the best single composed by Raja in the last few years . Today no MD has the caliber to come up with such carnatic delights . Let Yuvan or the mighty ARR take this challenge and prove me wrong here. I would be happy. Raja needs a successor I think we already have one! don't we?

[genesis]

#$%@&#$ is best Gana single composed by Deva in the last few years . Today no MD has the caliber to come up with such Gana delights . Let Yuvan or the mighty ARR or the veteran IR take this challenge and prove me wrong here. I would be happy. Deva needs a successor. I don't think there is anyone in the current lot who understands Gana music as much as Deva does. At least not in Tamil.

[jaiganes]

#$%@&#$ is best Gana single composed by Deva in the last few years . Today no MD has the caliber to come up with such Gana delights . Let Yuvan or the mighty ARR or the veteran IR take this challenge and prove me wrong here. I would be happy. Deva needs a successor. I don't think there is anyone in the current lot who understands Gana music as much as Deva does. At least not in Tamil.

ganavai porutha varaikkum best "bala baarathi" thaan. thalai vaasal gaana songs are one of the best in their genre. Recently Raja did two gaanas in Vaalmiki - they too were pretty good. ;-)
basically. I am innocent ya..

[genesis]

ganavai porutha varaikkum best "bala baarathi" thaan. thalai vaasal gaana songs are one of the best in their genre. Recently Raja did two gaanas in Vaalmiki - they too were pretty good. ;-)
basically. I am innocent ya..

jai - I know you got my point. Everyone has special talents. There is no point is challenging others to match. It is like expecting best Pizza from Saravana Bhavan.

I have heard very beautiful carnatic or carnatic based Malayalam film songs (At least I think they are better than IR's). I *hope* an expert like Suresh65 will vouch my opinion.

[Vysar]

ARR is good in just one category electronic music remix like Deva in Ganaa.

IR is an all rounder.

[Sunil_M88]

ARR is good in just one category electronic music

Thank you for providing some entertainment. Nice Joke (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)

[jaiganes]

Thank you for providing some entertainment. Nice Joke (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)

Oh yeah - there is something called "History". Hub also has history. What you witnessed is "history repeating itself" (a rare phenomenon). no need for tension. It will subside by itself..

[rajkumarc]

Ponnar Shankar trailor is awesome. The visuals are very rich and speak much of production values. Let's the hope the movie is equally good. IR will score a home run with the music.

[raagas]

jai - I know you got my point. Everyone has special talents. There is no point is challenging others to match. It is like expecting best Pizza from Saravana Bhavan.


Hmm.Thats something I believe in and follow too, which is why I dont go by comparisons. Whats the point expecting someone to match someone else. Expecting ARR or Yuvan (frequent targets anyway, i sometimes feel other composers such as Shankar Ehsan Loy or Vidyasagar etc are non-existent for IR fans,when it comes to 'challenging' part in discussions :-) they seem to be lucky guys :-) ) match IR is so pointless (for me atleast). same old thing. cliche`! Yawn!

[raagas]

Ponnar Shankar songs link please. where can i listen to them? Waiting...

Albums I am waiting for:

Padithurai
Happi
Rama Rajyam

Surprised that there are no other films in Hindi; read long time ago that he agreed to work in 4 hindi films.

[genesis]

Expecting ARR or Yuvan (frequent targets anyway, i sometimes feel other composers such as Shankar Ehsan Loy or Vidyasagar etc are non-existent for IR fans

Yuvan no way worth to be compared with IR or ARR. Some folk want to keep Yuvan there because...
a) They think they have pulled ARR to Yuvan level and IR has been kept at a higher level (IR பற்று)
b) They think they have pushed Yuvan to ARR level ( IR குடும்பப் பற்று)

[rajasaranam]

Yuvan no way worth to be compared with IR or ARR. Some folk want to keep Yuvan there because...
a) They think they have pulled ARR to Yuvan level and IR has been kept at a higher level (IR பற்று)
b) They think they have pushed Yuvan to ARR level ( IR குடும்பப் பற்று)

I'm confused as to whether Raajar has a level higher than these MD's or he doesn't have a level at all :confused:

[vel]

Yuvan no way worth to be compared with IR or ARR. Some folk want to keep Yuvan there because...
a) They think they have pulled ARR to Yuvan level and IR has been kept at a higher level (IR பற்று)
b) They think they have pushed Yuvan to ARR level ( IR குடும்பப் பற்று)

i think this way - yuvan does not need "IR குடும்பப் பற்று" factor to help him. He needs no helping.
He is a composer who does not need to attach with a winning crew, in order to make his music succeed. He is independent of big banners and big heroes. He has come up the hard way and today has his own brand equity, which contributes to a film's marketability as well.

[thumburu]

Nothing could be more clichéd than jumping to defence every time few holy, sacrosanct MDs’ work is being questioned. Why should I drag Vidhyasagar? His lovely Surutti in “Paramasivan” or his usage of a rarer “Nasikabhushini” in “PasakiLigaL” found little or no takers and poor guy had to resort to safer “appadi podu”s , “kuruvi adichas and parandhas” and “rocket rajas” for survival. I hold Arr, Yuvan and Harris culpable of the offence of degradation in the melodic, carnatic content in today’s Tamil songs for, these over paid MDs wield enormous clout in the industry and they have done precious little in accommodating one of our most important cultural identities in their milieu. Just a stray madhuvanthi in “Kanda naaL mudhalai” will not absolve Yuvan and when was the last time ARR had such satisfying carnatic songs? “kaNNamoochiyenada” or “margazhi thingaL allava”?

[thumburu]

jai - I know you got my point. Everyone has special talents. There is no point is challenging others to match. It is like expecting best Pizza from Saravana Bhavan.

I have heard very beautiful carnatic or carnatic based Malayalam film songs (At least I think they are better than IR's). I *hope* an expert like Suresh65 will vouch my opinion.

Why go as far as Malayalam film music ? Let me help u out. In TFM itself, if u know history, we had doyens like Gramanathan, GNB, KVM who were adepts in Carnatic music. So?

[jaiganes]

Guys - lets stay clear of comparisons - they always seem to draw the worst out of us.
To each his/her own. We all know the mastery of Raaja in carnatic and hindustani. If anyone was ever in doubt, let him/her read the article in solvanam and deduce for themselves.
I think that article is the hardest hit in the face of raja's detractors (if any?).
OTOH , to the defense of genesis, he only meant that it is not a wise thing to expect ARR or yuvan or any1 now to go fully carnatic as there is no audience for that kind of rooted music in TFM anymore.

[genesis]

Nothing could be more clichéd than jumping to defence every time few holy, sacrosanct MDs’ work is being questioned. Why should I drag Vidhyasagar? His lovely Surutti in “Paramasivan” or his usage of a rarer “Nasikabhushini” in “PasakiLigaL” found little or no takers and poor guy had to resort to safer “appadi podu”s , “kuruvi adichas and parandhas” and “rocket rajas” for survival. I hold Arr, Yuvan and Harris culpable of the offence of degradation in the melodic, carnatic content in today’s Tamil songs for, these over paid MDs wield enormous clout in the industry and they have done precious little in accommodating one of our most important cultural identities in their milieu. Just a stray madhuvanthi in “Kanda naaL mudhalai” will not absolve Yuvan and when was the last time ARR had such satisfying carnatic songs? “kaNNamoochiyenada” or “margazhi thingaL allava”?

I 100% agree with you Thumburu. VS is most underrated and abused MD in TFM. OTOH, Yuvan is the most over rated and worthless MD in TFM. I think Imman, Vijay Antony, DSP have better creativity than Yuvan.


it is not a wise thing to expect ARR or yuvan or any1 now to go fully carnatic as there is no audience for that kind of rooted music in TFM anymore.

This is true - today the market is only for kuththu songs. Almost every MD in TFM is making them.


We all know the mastery of Raaja in carnatic and hindustani. If anyone was ever in doubt, let him/her read the article in solvanam and deduce for themselves.

சொல்வனம் article எல்லாம் வெறும் ராஜா பஜனை. I am not taking them seriously.

[V_S]

VS is most underrated.
Thanks guys for your support. Am I also abused in TFM, very sad to hear, I will work on it to improve:lol:

[baroque]

Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes View Post

it is not a wise thing to expect ARR or yuvan or any1 now to go fully carnatic as there is no audience for that kind of rooted music in TFM anymore.
Genesis says...
This is true - today the market is only for kuththu songs. Almost every MD in TFM is making them.


It is not true.

From his debut, Rahman has been giving carnatic/ hindustani compositions, everybody is digging.
anbendra mazhaiyiley......
new age fusion in ragam megh malhar in Thakshak.
sarfaroshi ki tamana....
narumugaiye......
uyirum neeye....
kismat se tum..... more more
A.R. Rahman has been feasting this generation with Indian Classical music always.
A.R.Rahman is TRUE TORCH BEARER of Indian classical music.
Regarding SOLVANAM articles etc... I can't comment. I never read them anyway.
vinatha.

[K]

Ellam ok pa, Ponnar Shankar Paattu epadi iruku did any one listen to it?

[skr]

K,Idhe Kelvi than Enakkum..? Whatever hapnd to Ponnar Shankar its been 4 days since music released..nobody seems to have gotten hold of a copy,no links anywhere on the net..totally clueless..

[Sureshs65]

genesis,

In one fell swoop you have ensured no one will take you seriously. Your hatred for Yuvan is clear and that you are highly dismissive of an artist who has played some lovely passages in Tamil film music because he is featured in a webzine which you don't like is an indication that you are not in here for an informed debate.

And baroque's statement that Rahman was the 'torch bearer' of Indian Classical Music was truly ROFL.

V_S: You are so humble :) That puts you in the top bracket as per today's standards.

Anyway, out for a week with no access to net. Hopefully 'Ponnar Shankar' audio will be out by the time I am back. Experience has taught me that the reaction to any Raja album is going to be the same. The usual suspects (including your's truly) will say the usual things :lol:

[raj_musing]

genesis,

And baroque's statement that Rahman was the 'torch bearer' of Indian Classical Music was truly ROFL.



Suresh, She was saying that Rahman was "torchering" Indian carnatic music and she is right :) :)

[raagas]

I 100% agree with you Thumburu. VS is most underrated and abused MD in TFM. OTOH, Yuvan is the most over rated and worthless MD in TFM. I think Imman, Vijay Antony, DSP have better creativity than Yuvan.



About vidyasagar - my point exactly. I fail to understand why people here or generally never compare VS against IR & why the comparisons are always with ARR/yuvan?why save VS from the wrath(thats what comparisons result in anyway) that the other two are subjected to? :-D

No comments abt Imman & DSP :-|

Baroque's opinion that ARR is the true torch bearer - isnt it like saying a bit too much? I am not a typical IR-Fan-Who-Bashes(has to bash)-ARR-Music. I listen to everyone's music & i have selective favourites from every composer (irrespective of the name). But objectively speaking, I felt baroque's opinion is far fetched, particularly now when the number of carnatic songs by ARR has decreased (or vanished?) drastically.

But then, to each his/her own!

[Devaraagam]

I agree with Genesis that VS is most underrated Music Director and Yuvan is most overrated MD.

even I am surprised, Why VS name is not coming into these discussions.

[rajasaranam]

The Sad state of affair is that the Audio Company has not yet been finalized for 'Ponnar Shankar' :( They had a release function on that date since Mu.kA will get busy with Election campaign later. I heard the banner is almost finalized and we will get the audio out in the market in a couple of days!
can't wait 'RELEASE THE AUDIOOOOOOOOO....' :curse:

[rajasaranam]

VS will not feature in these discussions becos he doesn't have a style of his own. He Imitates MSV or Raaja mostly. Agreed that Yuvan is over-rated sometimes but can't agree on VS being under-rated. his rating is right as to his caliber!

[raagas]

The Sad state of affair is that the Audio Company has not yet been finalized for 'Ponnar Shankar' :( They had a release function on that date since Mu.kA will get busy with Election campaign later. I heard the banner is almost finalized and we will get the audio out in the market in a couple of days!
can't wait 'RELEASE THE AUDIOOOOOOOOO....' :curse:

This means there was an audio release... without the release of the audio.

Personal opinion: This is RIDICULOUS!

[raagas]

VS will not feature in these discussions becos he doesn't have a style of his own. He Imitates MSV or Raaja mostly.

Hmm.. Interesting RS.
Do all IR fans really avoid IR-VS comparisons just because he doesnt have a style of his own? Or are they condoning VS because he imitates Raaja (& MSV) and are always ready to aim at ARR/Yuvan just because they dont imitate Raaja? If yes, then it looks as if "imitating Raaja" is the sole certification needed by composers today, to escape the wrath of IR fans. If No, then there could be some other reason right?
Also, it is not just abt VS alone but atleast dozen composers out there, in all the south-indian languages, who somehow never get to face the wrath of IR fans, whatever their quality of music is. :-)

[jaiganes]

Please - can we all get back to discussing IR's albums alone?
Right now the interludes of "Adiye Ivale" have me in "loop mode".
After Balesh's interview which had some detailed references to how "Naayanam" and "shehnai" are being used,
The interludes of this song are case in point. The nadhaswaram play in this song - has to be true to the context of "kovil thiruvizha" and yet be something
new as far as creativity is concerned - result is an interlude that doesnt do too much of "melody playing" but straight forward robust playing that puts you right into
the milieu..

[prasad_subbu]

baroque,

It is true that ARR gave some good classical composiition. My only problem with his composition is, I feel it have traces of earlier work. For example

Kismat me - have the traces of "Sonnadhu Needhaana". In place where Jaanam ab na choodenge will have higher degree of resemblence.
Hone Hone pyar lage(words may not be exact) - 1947 earth - have a good resemblence of "Andhru orunaal Aanandha tirunaal" - This will have exact match at "Padi Vizhigal moodi kidhanthaen".
"Vidukathaiyaa En Vazhkai" from Muthu - Resembles "Ullathil Nalla Ullam" from Karnan.
"Kanoodu Kanbadellam" from jeans resembles "Singara Vellanne Nee Vaa"
"Neetru keta paadal"(words may not be exact) from Azhagiya Tamizh Magan has traces of "Aagaya Vennilavae Arungarum vellai thaano"

There are many more if you think about it. I think sometime back you mentioned resemblence of "Kuruku Siruthavale" and "Nallavarkellam Saatchigal Undu" from Tyagam.

My observation is Rahman generally observes when given a situation to compose, who has done the best in the similar situation in past. He tries to draw lines parallel to that there by having this resemblences. While his execution is perfect, his conception of a tune I feel is not from scratch. Does not mean he copied, it is like derived class(for software professionals), which will have baseclass attribute but new stuff added too.

The same approach of Rahman is ensuring success for him in all languages. Proabably he looks at the work of musicians on that arena and take it from there.
His recently Oscar nominated song "If I Rise" I feel is Parallel line to "Enya's" type songs.

[baroque]

Rahman's classical compositions carries Indian classical music gamaka proyogam.

I don't think Rahman is thinking or doing whatever you assume.

Whatever....
anyway.... this is IR thread, let it get back.


Vinatha.

[jaiganes]

baroque,

It is true that ARR gave some good classical composiition. My only problem with his composition is, I feel it have traces of earlier work. For example

Kismat me - have the traces of "Sonnadhu Needhaana". In place where Jaanam ab na choodenge will have higher degree of resemblence.
Hone Hone pyar lage(words may not be exact) - 1947 earth - have a good resemblence of "Andhru orunaal Aanandha tirunaal" - This will have exact match at "Padi Vizhigal moodi kidhanthaen".
"Vidukathaiyaa En Vazhkai" from Muthu - Resembles "Ullathil Nalla Ullam" from Karnan.
"Kanoodu Kanbadellam" from jeans resembles "Singara Vellanne Nee Vaa"
"Neetru keta paadal"(words may not be exact) from Azhagiya Tamizh Magan has traces of "Aagaya Vennilavae Arungarum vellai thaano"

There are many more if you think about it. I think sometime back you mentioned resemblence of "Kuruku Siruthavale" and "Nallavarkellam Saatchigal Undu" from Tyagam.

My observation is Rahman generally observes when given a situation to compose, who has done the best in the similar situation in past. He tries to draw lines parallel to that there by having this resemblences. While his execution is perfect, his conception of a tune I feel is not from scratch. Does not mean he copied, it is like derived class(for software professionals), which will have baseclass attribute but new stuff added too.

The same approach of Rahman is ensuring success for him in all languages. Proabably he looks at the work of musicians on that arena and take it from there.
His recently Oscar nominated song "If I Rise" I feel is Parallel line to "Enya's" type songs.

I donno but even Raaja does the same. "Using a reference" and constructing something new on top is nothing new in creative fields.
Classic Example - If you had listened to "Maayakkannaadi" songs which come with the "composing session" bit,this is how it unfolds.

Raja: Oru basic love feel thaan illaya?
Cheran: aamam.
Immediately Raja begins to hum "Poongaathu thirumbuma tune" and does Sa Pa and from there lands up in "Konji Konji".
I wouldnt be surprised if ARR does something similar. It is done primarily to get the mind tuned in and if it carries the original inspiration
along - it doesnt mean someone is lesser creator.
Cant you see "naan paarthadhile aval oruththiyai thaan" in "pudhu maappiLLaikku"?
As far as carnatic bonafides are concerned, when necessity comes , every music director will be pushed to create a carnatic song.
ARR in his early days has done some real carnatic gems too - "EnnavaLe" and "Naru mugaye" are no less carnatic gems.
If we are bothered about quantity, we know how ARR is selective and this automatically rules out "quantity" argument.
Lets get back to enjoying discussing or discussing about enjoying Raaja's music ..

[MumbaiRamki]

Went to landmar today .. Ponnar shankar hasnt come yet !

[raagas]

ya ya..lets get back from digressions! the audio release fiasco of ponnar shankar is frustrating. Pch..

[skr]

Seekarama release pannanga pa :(

[skr]

One good news though..Happi movie release date is confirmed as 15th April..so we can expect the audio atleast a week b4 the movie release..

[KV]

This means there was an audio release... without the release of the audio.

Personal opinion: This is RIDICULOUS!

Absolutely and amazingly ridiculous!

Brings to my mind a conversation from the Kabhi Kabhi remix version from Avar Enakke Sontham.
Film music troupe - iyya ungalukku enna srudhi?
Bhagavathar: Yellam en vidhi!

http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song.php?id=381368
Apologies for posting a download link, but thiraipaadal and Raaga dont have the full version in them. Raaja runs riot in this song. First a Thyagaraja krithi in classic rock format with electric guitars and acoustic drums. And then Kabhi Kabhi in pakka carnatic style with sangadhis and swarams! The dialogs and lyrical twists are hilarious!
TMS and IR bring down the house, advanced detonated demolition!

[KV]

Nothing could be more clichéd than jumping to defence every time few holy, sacrosanct MDs’ work is being questioned. Why should I drag Vidhyasagar? His lovely Surutti in “Paramasivan” or his usage of a rarer “Nasikabhushini” in “PasakiLigaL” found little or no takers and poor guy had to resort to safer “appadi podu”s , “kuruvi adichas and parandhas” and “rocket rajas” for survival. I hold Arr, Yuvan and Harris culpable of the offence of degradation in the melodic, carnatic content in today’s Tamil songs for, these over paid MDs wield enormous clout in the industry and they have done precious little in accommodating one of our most important cultural identities in their milieu. Just a stray madhuvanthi in “Kanda naaL mudhalai” will not absolve Yuvan and when was the last time ARR had such satisfying carnatic songs? “kaNNamoochiyenada” or “margazhi thingaL allava”?

Thumburu, please check PM.

[Devaraagam]

RS, Thanks for the information.

"without aware of this I had asked lot of my source to check the cd in most of the shops in chennai and PONARSKR (ponnar Sankar) keys were cursing me like anything as I had disturbed them lot in the past 4 days .. :)"

[prasad_subbu]

Jaiganes,

Good points. But if you see the quantity of IR output, these kind of incidences form very less percentage. Having said that, point is accepted.

Baroque,

What is Gamaka Prayogam? Is there any major difference between compositions using Gamaka prayogam and others. Interested to learn, if you can elaborate.

[baroque]

Each raga in ICM is unique because of gamakas... ie variation of pitch of a note, its oscillations between notes.
each raga has rules, standards on these gamakas applied on a specific notes.

more you listen to ICM aalapanas, RTPs, (instrumental and vocal) you start picking up the raga bhaavam.

I am also a regular listener to katcheries, listen to rtps, slogams, bajans etc... without theory knowledge, Prasad.

The point is, Rahman indeed gives ICM- ragas to this generation.

From Roja , Iruvar days to Swades, Jodha Akbar etc...now.

In fact from ARR, GVP to Vishal Barathwaj... every fellow is delivering ICM whenever they can for this generation.

Shri.ilayaraja's music , his style of usage fancies some of your mood, just go & enjoy.
**********************************


Coming soon...PONNAR SHANKAR-SHRI.ILAYARAJA.

vinatha.

[KV]

Baroque: ARR is torchbearer of ICM
IR fans: yengalukku pandham ellam venam. Betramax light dhaan venum

J/K Vinatha. Many of us do know ARR’s usage of classical music (Water being one of my favs, Piya ho and Bangri marori two absolute gems).
The grouse of some (‘classical purists’) fans here, the way I understand, is that the popular contemporary MDs should, in addition to what they’re doing already, use more of classical music to try and increase its reach among today’s youth.
Indeed, even as recent as last year, did we get to listen to beautiful numbers from VB like Bhadi dhere and Ab muje koi in Ishqya (and there’s Narthagi that I’m yet to listen, but I see is getting good WOM here in the hub). Just that we need more of this. Peace.

Amidst all this, Shankar 4 naal munnala kelambi ponaar, innum aala kaanum. Sigh!

[baroque]

They will do.
idho... Shri.IR podapporaaru paarunga in PS.


Vinatha.(tera mera pyaar amar, phir kyon mujhako lagata hai dar)

[raagas]

ah.. good to see mentions about Vishal Bharadwaj too here! This is what I have been saying folks. There are composers beyond ARR/Yuvan too, to talk about.:-)
I like the work of Vishal & i often wonder why IR fans never bring in other composers like him, for comparisons. Not just ARR/Yuvan.

But anyway, lets not digress more! a good news - about Happi - is certainly welcome. More updates needed.

[baroque]

That's is the upbeat spirit.
oh... yeah.
Hip hip Hooray Vishal Barathwaj!
சொல்லலாமே in Shri.IR's thread.

Everybody love
Maachis
kaminey
to
ishqia
7 khoon maaf

the RUSKIN BOND'S The Blue Umbrella ... what a beautiful movie.
They should take more of these kind of movies, treat the young adults with intelligence.
தமிழ்ளேயும் இந்தமாதிரி படங்கள் எடுக்கணும். இந்த generation குழந்தைங்களுக்கு எதுக்கு தலை, வால், அடிச்சு நொறுக்கிடுவேன், காணாம போயிடுவ empty sensations
http://www.raaga.com/channels/hindi/movie/H000041.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABpLjADMH04
pani pani re......Lata.....90s Vishal Bharathwaj.
With the yearning mood,
Wait for Ponnar shankar to arrive soon.
Vinatha.

[kiru]

ARR is a "free form composer" IR is a classical composer ie. even for ordinary situation he goes to his library of raagams and starts composing with it as the base. Even thanni thotti thEdi vandha kannukutti naan is based on a classical raagam. ARR will do a 'classical' composition only if the situation is called for. IMHO, if ARR consistently used raagams as base for all songs, he probably would not have sounded different from IR and hence successful.
(Re: VS - I am with rs. I dont think he is that original, but he does know to build a strong tune, just like IR and other old MDs who use raagams as base)

[jaiganes]

saamingala...
idha comparison discussion kal thondra kaalathukkum munnalaye mudinju poyaachu. edhukku marubadiyum?
plss. get back to the subject...

[kiru]

Re: other composers. I like all the fun songs of ARR. My other favorites were Ramesh Vinayagam and in Hindi (Ismail Darbar). I listen to IR specifically because he delivers me a specific genre that not many MDs are catering. Sometime back I got a 2-CD compilation of KJY's songs and I love all the songs in these two CDs irrespective of the MDs. This is what I call as the "Indian Film Music" genre and IR continues to provide songs in this genre.

[kiru]

EnnaikkO oru naaLaikku enakku post pannanum time/intereset vandhirukku. En discourage pannareenga ?

[jaiganes]

EnnaikkO oru naaLaikku enakku post pannanum time/intereset vandhirukku. En discourage pannareenga ?
yaaru pannaa? innikku physics exam, neenga chemistry paper answer dhaan ezhudhuvennu adam pidikkappadaadhu? sariya?

[kiru]

yaaru pannaa? innikku physics exam, neenga chemistry paper answer dhaan ezhudhuvennu adam pidikkappadaadhu? sariya?
Jai, the post was relevant to the topic of classical music output of composers. It was not in anyway negative to any MD also. I would not post anything if I felt it did not add any value. I appreciate you on trying to keep the thread to the topic, but I think these are healthy and informative digressions, if not to you but to many of the new comers to the thread. Well. I will leave it here.

[jaiganes]

Jai, the post was relevant to the topic of classical music output of composers. It was not in anyway negative to any MD also. I would not post anything if I felt it did not add any value. I appreciate you on trying to keep the thread to the topic, but I think these are healthy and informative digressions, if not to you but to many of the new comers to the thread. Well. I will leave it here.

I didnt mind you saying IR as a classical composer or how he has done classical composition, but saying XYZ was "some thing else" - well -it might be very innocently put, but we have to take into the account of the history of hub where such innocent remarks run into pages of discussion about ABC vs XYZ and everyone forgetting what was being discussed in the first place. Having said that I agree that composition structure and style of Raja's music needs to be discussed, but probably in a different thread.

[genesis]

I didnt mind you saying IR as a classical composer or how he has done classical composition, but saying XYZ was "some thing else" - well -it might be very innocently put, but we have to take into the account of the history of hub where such innocent remarks run into pages of discussion about ABC vs XYZ and everyone forgetting what was being discussed in the first place. Having said that I agree that composition structure and style of Raja's music needs to be discussed, but probably in a different thread.

Jai - If you recall it all started with someone saying IR is the only MD with complete understanding of Carnatic and Hindustani music. If IR bhagthas stop making such all sweeping statements, we would not have got here.

I am sorry to say, but IR forum is strictly being monitored for IR praise only (even at the cost of other composers, lyricist etc etc). It is become customary to put one down when he/she offends IR bhagthas here. For this forum to be healthy, everyone's view shall be allowed and respected.

P.S: ARR's forum is also becoming like this, but it has not become this bad.

[kiru]

Genesis - did you read this in my post - "IMHO, if ARR consistently used raagams as base for all songs, he probably would not have sounded different from IR and hence successful." Do you consider this as dig or praise of ARR ? Yes I am a fan of IR's music, but I am not that much of a music ignoramus to undermine the work of Oscar-award winning MD.

[entertainment]

Genesis,
"Ithu Enga Area Ulla Varaadha" dialogue is what I could recollect. This "IR Album" category is created to appreciate and express some disappointments (by HC IR Fans) about IR Albums. Many of them who visit this page are HC IR Fans. So teaching rules will not work out. We are here because we love IR. Because we love him a lot we obviously tend to keep him high. I think that is psychologically behavior and seen everywhere in the world. KAKKAIKKU THAN KUNJU PON KUNJU. If you think we dont think balanced/equal, never mind. We are happy with what we think/talk.

This is my observation. Not intending to hurt anyone :).


Jai - If you recall it all started with someone saying IR is the only MD with complete understanding of Carnatic and Hindustani music. If IR bhagthas stop making such all sweeping statements, we would not have got here.

I am sorry to say, but IR forum is strictly being monitored for IR praise only (even at the cost of other composers, lyricist etc etc). It is become customary to put one down when he/she offends IR bhagthas here. For this forum to be healthy, everyone's view shall be allowed and respected.

P.S: ARR's forum is also becoming like this, but it has not become this bad.

[raj_musing]

Gents,

May I put a gentle request to discuss this issue in some other thread. Iam sure that there would be a lot of emotioms pouring in, from different quarters when these sensitive issues ,come for discussion.

Please break this now and lets discuss only about Raja's new albums in this thread.

Thanks
R

[crvenky]

அழகர்சாமியின் குதிரை இசை: இளையராஜா
விலை: 99 - வெளியீடு: சோனி மியூஸிக்

மனதை ஊடுருவி மென்தென்றல் சுகமளிக்கும் ராஜா மேஜிக் மெலடி 'குதிக்கிற குதிக்கிற குதிரைக் குட்டி’ பாடல். அழகிய மனைவி கிடைக்கவிருக்கும் குஷியில் குதித்தாடும் குதிரைக்காரனின் கொண்டாட்டத்தை 'பால் போல பனி போல நிறந்தானே’, 'நிலத்துல நடக்குது நிலவுக் கட்டி’ என்று எளிமை ரசனையாகப் பிரதிபலிக்கிறது ஃப்ரான்சிஸ் கிருபாவின் வரிகள். 'இளையராஜா குரலா?’ என்று ஆச்சர்யப்படுத்தி... வெட்கம், உற்சாகம் புதைத்து ஒலிக்கிறது குரல். 'முகம் பார்த்துத் தடுமாறிப் போனேனே... ம்க்கும்... ம்க்கும்... ம்க்கும்!’ என்று கவிதைக் குறும்பும் இசைக் குற்றாலமுமாகக் குதூகலப் பாடல். திருவிழா சாட்டலில் துவங்குகிறது 'அடியே இவளே’ பாடல். தஞ்சை செல்வியின் குரலும் மெல்லிய மேளமுமாகப் பயணிக்கும் பாடலின் இடையிடையே சுதியுடன் வெடிக்கும் அதிர்வேட்டு இசை, உச்சகட்டத்தில் அழகர்சாமி கோயில் திருவிழாவின் நடுவில் அருளேற நிற்கும் பக்தனின் மன நிலைக்குக் கொண்டுசெல்கிறது. மலைப் பாதை பேருந்து ஜன்னல் பயண சுகம் 'பூவக் கேளு காத்தைக் கேளு’ பாடலில். ராஜாவின் ரசனை ஆல்பம்!

[ramk1]

Did Ponnar Shankar Audio got released? There has been no discussions on that.

[MumbaiRamki]

Audio rights is given to saga music , relatively unknown !.. lets see if it releases in a day or two

[Devaraagam]

I assume and pray that quality would not be saga...with saga music.

[MumbaiRamki]

ok - i know we grinding the same flour .. but the 5 sec teasers being played for ponnar shankar in kalaignar TV is superb class...expectin a lot !

[Devaraagam]

Hi MR,

For me, Ponnar Sankar is a surprise package because I did not have any clue on this movie especially on its MD until 15th March 2011. awaiting to listen and feel its treatment.

[MumbaiRamki]

Hijacking ajaybhaskar's comment in other thread .. Ponnar shankar ..

http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/...p?mid=T0003043

Review start ! ( Donthave access here )

[raagas]

Initial reaction to PS songs - Mixed bag! some songs are good while some didnt please me much (particularly the first one)!

More later after I listen to them intently!

[raagas]

My recco: Head straight to "Kannai Padithen" - lovely! Simply lovely! (despite the synth)

And the next one that got me is "Malar Villilae"

[rajasaranam]

PONNAR SHANKAR: Now this is a Challenge to current Gen. Composers. I Re-iterate no one can conjure up such simple straight to heart melodies accompanied by grand orchestrations.

[V_S]

PONNAR SHANKAR: Now this is a Challenge to current Gen. Composers. I Re-iterate no one can conjure up such simple straight to heart melodies accompanied by grand orchestrations.
RS, Wow! if you are saying, it should be an amazing soundtrack and my expectations have gone leaps and bounds. Please remember this movie and soundtrack was not even known until last three months or so and we were expecting a regular Raja soundtrack. It seems the monster has struck. Can't wait to hear (have to wait till evening :()

[raagas]

accompanied by grand orchestrations.

Just saying - A lot of music is actually synthesized music RS.Even the violins(given that we heard great pieces on violin ensembles from him for decades, should we be glad about it or complain? - no idea. I guess we just have to accept as it is) or the keyboards or synth rhythm kits etc. I am sure Ravi Natarajan can dissect more and explain. The tech/synth quotient is quite high, compared to real instruments. even loops are present.

But that doesn't lessen the quality of songs though. I liked 4 songs (so far) :-)

[rajasaranam]

raagas,

Agreed a lot of music is synthesized and I'd be more happy if he had gone for real acoustic recording. But hey it doesn't lessen the quality of songs. cant wait to get my hands on CD and listen on headsets :)

[rajasaranam]

Mumbai Ramki,

I think you'll be able to discern KarthickRaaja's work in some songs if Iam right :) should see the CD cover to know whether he is credited!

[MumbaiRamki]

Heard only once.

Kodi Kodi koduthalaam : Embrassement for a period film , esp pallavi and anu appalavi. may be repeated listening may change
Annamar kathai : OK . But when we say period film, certain signature exist which makes this song less enjoyable.
Bavani varugira : After the big bang start, the song is a breeze . But again ,it lacks the 'period' feel IMHO.
Kannai padithaen : Interesting mix of synth and classical stuff . Nice one !
Thedi vandha dhevadhai : Again , same problem. Nice song, but very recent :(
Malr Vililae : Good one . Orchestration is vintage .

Overall ,its good , much much better than ayyan - but somehow it lacks the serenity of a period film . We get transported to a different film , esp by the serenity or by the use of instruments . thats lacking for me .

[rajasaranam]

Overall ,its good , much much better than ayyan - but somehow it lacks the serenity of a period film . We get transported to a different film , esp by the serenity or by the use of instruments . thats lacking for me .

I too had the same feel when I listened to 'JaganMohini' Earlier. We have a pre-conceived notion regarding Period Films and the music it needs to have. There can be no authentic period music perse is the conclusion I came to. hey even Gladiator had a operatic/symphonic music to it and the timeline difference between symphony music and roman era was over 1500 years.
Films are fantasy and Raaja provides ample support to the fantasy through his music is What I believe. Let some one make an authentic Period film and lets hope the director inspire him to think in lines of real instruments used in those times to create an authentic period feel. till then lets immerse ourselves in the fantasy world created by the makers :)

[jaiganes]

I am in love with Annanmaar kadhai - What an oratoric recreation of the entire story. Mind you this story is a long one (spans 2 generations) - Madhu has sung it beautifully.
The orchestration, beats, the folk passages - everything song. yet to listen to the carnatic ones - but this one is a killer of a song for anyone...
BTW where is the "touted" nithyashree and sudha raghunathan song - must have been an "April Fool" prank on us.. and all that fighting just based on that piece of info - he he he - how stupid were we?

[MumbaiRamki]

RS,
What a period film should have is definetly debatable and different people can have different opinions . But the problem with illayaraaja is that he has scored music in broad strokes that any music he does for period film will have some reference to his earlier films and we will be forced to think that the sounds used for the period film is synth and dated ( irony!) . This can never be avoided. This is not a problem for a film like PAA , but for a rare genre like this , our brain feels so :)

But my grouse here is about feeling serene . Apart from sounds , the pace and serenity of the song makes us identify the mood of the film. Sadly , i feel the pace is bit too much for a period film - but individually the songs are superb.

(BTW , there was a tracklisting with nithyasree , bombay jayashree ..enge ?)

[MumbaiRamki]

A classic example to explain my point here ..

thedi vandha : Tthe starting interlude is very much modern, but the melody and the beats suits the period well. But lyrics : again , it is the notion that period films can't have colloquial lyrics that makes me think that the lyrics is really absurd for a period film.

[MumbaiRamki]

Kannai padithaen is just heavenly !!!!
Itwofs, review enga .. waiting for ur interesting adjectives on raaja's composition -!

[MumbaiRamki]

RS ,
Paavam nga karthik raja .. vidunga !
karthik raja does work for raaja , ( even in virumaandi he did lot of work ) but nt able to differentiate here ..

[MumbaiRamki]

I too had the same feel when I listened to 'JaganMohini' Earlier.
sir , romba over .. jagan mohini was very mediocre except the nilavu varum song. this is much much better !

[raj_musing]

Heard only once.

Kodi Kodi koduthalaam : Embrassement for a period film , esp pallavi and anu appalavi. may be repeated listening may change
.

My pick after listening to the album once :) Not sure how you felt this song as embarassement? Listen again and Iam sure that you will like it!

[jaiganes]

sir , romba over .. jagan mohini was very mediocre except the nilavu varum song. this is much much better !
ஜகன் மோகினியில் வரும் "பொன்மணித்தேரில்" பாடல் மிகவும் செழுமையானது. அந்தப்பாடலின் சில விஷயங்கள் இந்தப்படத்தின் பவானி பாடலில் கேட்கலாம்.

[MumbaiRamki]

ஜகன் மோகினியில் வரும் "பொன்மணித்தேரில்" பாடல் மிகவும் செழுமையானது. அந்தப்பாடலின் சில விஷயங்கள் இந்தப்படத்தின் பவானி பாடலில் கேட்கலாம்.

I liked the pon mani theril tune - but the synth pad made me hate it :(

[MumbaiRamki]

My pick after listening to the album once :) Not sure how you felt this song as embarassement? Listen again and Iam sure that you will like it!

I heard the other songs , but this one - to put it softly, felt was too synth- loud and massy for a period movie . I was reminded of ' Ele enga vandha' kind of song ...The interludes was liek KR made , jazzy , trendy and a mis fit for my taste of a period song .

I expected very traditional song like the islam song in pazaasi raja , this was quite off the tangent and too synth ! Not to speak of the ordinary lyrics by Na Muthukumar

Forgetting thsi discussion, except the interludes , i did not like the tune , overall setup of the song ... Again , no two brains are the same here .And finally , who cares - its what we like that matters ( how many people here like unnai kanum pothe from the en mana vaanil - i love that song !)

[raj_musing]

Forgetting thsi discussion, except the interludes , i did not like the tune , overall setup of the song ... Again , no two brains are the same here .And finally , who cares - its what we like that matters ( how many people here like unnai kanum pothe from the en mana vaanil - i love that song !)

I agree that we do not appreciate songs in the same way. After listening to the entire album once,I felt that "Thedi vantha Devathai" falls out of place...Somehow a misfit for a traditional movie. I felt the same for 'Odathanil" from Pazhassi raja as well.
Bavani Varugiraa is definitely growing in me...Iam sure after repeated hearing there would me much better opinions on most of the songs here. Some of them are situational songs for me like "Annamar Kathai" and would look great with visuals... .Iam still listening to Bavani varugiraa...

[MumbaiRamki]

Repeating grouse , as im unable to bear it .

1) 'Thedi vandha devathai' : if i ever get snehan in my hand , i will ask him to do 'okki' , until he pleads guilty of writing nonsense lyrics of a superb tune and orchestration ... esp for a period film. I don't have a clue what people spoke 1000 years at home and by raajas and im sure nattupura pattu in those times had simple lyrics. But ina movie which is supposed to transport you , this will be a big hinderent - lyrics , big let down !!!!

[MumbaiRamki]

. After listening to the entire album once,I felt that "Thedi vantha Devathai" falls out of place...Somehow a misfit for a traditional movie...

Yeah , especially using the sleezy modulation is an age old technique which our raaja still uses( adhu seri , when old programmers do it , we call legacy) . The tune , orchestration is excellent but this aspect and the inapt lyrics pulls it down ...

[raj_musing]

When I saw Vairamuthu for the audio function,I probably thought,he might have penned atleast for a couple of songs.......

[MumbaiRamki]

Annanmar kathai :Its a western classical song that its interlaced with our folk song , with the orchestration behaving like chameleon ..Again , the second interlude is shenaii ?
Its raaja's mistake that he used our natupura padalgaL in movies 80s that now we are unable to believe that such folk songs existed 1000 years ago and would have been sung similarly ;) Sorry guys , couldnt help it to slide this sly humor.

The final rythm is catchy !

[MumbaiRamki]

When I saw Vairamuthu for the audio function,I probably thought,he might have penned atleast for a couple of songs.......
He is hugely missed !

[MumbaiRamki]

The second interlue of Thedi vandha devadhai : I cant put this in a single genre !

[jaiganes]

Ok. after 5 listens back to back, the best song is "Malar villae" - the song changes shapes every line in the charanam that is so characteristic of 80s ilaiyaraaja. The song reminds one of vintage raaja as well as "meyyaanadha poiyyaanadha" from that doomed Karthik Raaja scored Ramba film "3 roses". The beat pickup of this song has to be heard to be believed and the way it ends with all the veenais, mrudangams and violins - the transformation is "WHOA" material. Other songs barring the first are very good. As expressed, the "nativity" element goes and comes off and on in all the songs. It is probably my expectation as I am trying to "fix" a time line for the story (I am setting it to be 9th century), however the way it might be pitched is more like a "fantasy" - If it is so - Raaja maaf. otherwise it is a terrible mistake in a period film( consider fans like me who did lot of medhappu statements in early Rahman threads on period music et.al, Egg in my face!!).melody and "creative music alignment" wise this album is pretty satisfying. Choice of singers too is worthwhile. Now in addition to synth, there are also some loops (like the ones we heard in Jagan mohini - hence the feel that the spin to the story is more of "fantasy" than reality) - and for all you know the critics might single them out for praise (???!!!)..

[jaiganes]

The second interlue of Thedi vandha devadhai : I cant put this in a single genre !
Will find a place in the erotica thread for the oomph put in by S-G. The tune is the catchiest second only to Malar vill. The pronunciation is tolerable from Kunal and the overall song is good if we turn blind(deaf) to the period.

[AravindMano]

A mild :confused2: feel so far. Album skip-nu ninaikREn.

[irir123]

'bavani varugiraa' has Karthik Raaja stamp in the tune itself - especially 'eduthhu eduthhu'

listened to 3 so far - its an ok album, but expected something better from IR given that it is a period film - perhaps the script did not inspire him as much as 'Pazhassi Raaja'

[irir123]

'kannai paditthaen' reminds somehow of 'maasilaa unmai kaadhalae' and some other old hindi song - any event, an absolute classic from IR

[Hulkster]

Its true that the film is fantasy based. Except for the sets of the film as seen from the trailer, everything else looks like a modern film. I think that is why thalaivar could not really pinpoint a periodic feel to the songs. In the trailer you can see one song where prasanth dances with a group for some romantic song. Seriously periodic filmukku yengirinthu dancers vanthu romantic songskellam aada arambichaanga? Knowing that thalaivar only composes after understanding song situation, makes sense why some of the songs have modern orchestration.

With that out of the way, thalaivar has gone crazy on some of the songs. Not sure if any of you noticed but annanmar kathaigal has a very polla vinayen transition feel which makes me rape the replay button every now and then. Bavani Varugira, Thedi Vantha Devathai and Malar Villilae will push for raaja's post 2010 best songs list. In fact if you listen to bavani varugira, the postlude where folk instruments are being played, it starts off with a samba like rhythm before going into our traditional folk style.

[ramk1]

Overall a good album. No jarry sounds anywhere. All the sounds merge into the song very well. The tune and the orchestration goes hand in hand. Provided this movie has a good promotion, the songs will surely be a hit.

[rajasaranam]

Its true that the film is fantasy based. Except for the sets of the film as seen from the trailer, everything else looks like a modern film.
Saari Baas, Iam an Architect and vouch for non-authenticity for the sets of the film. The sets are completely out of place for the time-line in Tamizh History!

[MumbaiRamki]

Saari Baas, Iam an Architect and vouch for non-authenticity for the sets of the film. The sets are completely out of place for the time-line in Tamizh History!
I think except for a few people, most of us want something that is 'appealing' rather than 'realistic' . That way , if the set reflects the theme of the movie , it should be ok -

This could be the first movie after 2000, that is written by Kalignar and could be a hit - My wife, who hates prasanth , saw the trailer and was urging me to book tickets - if they market well , the opening can be gud !

[raj_musing]

Though I neglected "Annamar Kadhai" at first Iam sure this is another beauty in this album,in which he traverses through different genres -Western/Folk/carnatic ,without compromising on his trademark orchestration.More intersested to watch th video clipping here to understand the situation for which he had to compose this song..

After 5-6 times of listening I have to change views on each and every song and rankings just keep changing :)

[raagas]

I heard the other songs , but this one - to put it softly, felt was too synth- loud and massy for a period movie . I was reminded of ' Ele enga vandha' kind of song ...The interludes was liek KR made , jazzy , trendy and a mis fit for my taste of a period song .


My thoughts are the same. The song doesnt work because:

1. Tune - any other composer today would have come up with a tune like this. Nothing great at all.
2. Arrangements are disappointingly synth laden. didnt please me much.

I somehow cannot associate Ilaiyaraaja with this song.

Will post my thoughts on other songs in a while.

[MumbaiRamki]

Though I neglected "Annamar Kadhai" at first Iam sure this is another beauty in this album,in which he traverses through different genres -Western/Folk/carnatic ,without compromising on his trademark orchestration.More intersested to watch th video clipping here to understand the situation for which he had to compose this song..

After 5-6 times of listening I have to change views on each and every song and rankings just keep changing :)
yeah , it jumps genres quite easily and yet to an extent retain the mood of the song ..

[entertainment]

I like PS Album very much. The entire Album is in loop except Kodi Kottti (this Song is not bad though compared Ayyan songs).

* I think Annanmaar needs special mention for the lyrics too. IR has come out as Lyricist and struck again.
* Shreya's rendering in Bhavani Varugira (especially the Edukka Edukka words) and Thedi Vandha Devadhaiyae songs are too good.

I remember someone updated the forum that Shreya was praising about few songs that he sang for IR. I think it is PS Album songs.

May be someone should ask IR that why did he opt for modern music with modern instruments than traditional one for this movie. Though we feel that it is not matching period film songs, we should hear from IR. Even I felt somewhat similar in Uliyin Osai too. Except Pazhaassi Raja rest all movie's songs not resembles period movies.

Any idea where can I buy ASK and PS album in Bangalore?

[MumbaiRamki]

I like PS Album very much. The entire Album is in loop except Kodi Kottti (this Song is not bad though compared Ayyan songs).

* I think Annanmaar needs special mention for the lyrics too. IR has come out as Lyricist and struck again.
* Shreya's rendering in Bhavani Varugira (especially the Edukka Edukka words) and Thedi Vandha Devadhaiyae songs are too good.

I remember someone updated the forum that Shreya was praising about few songs that he sang for IR. I think it is PS Album songs.

May be someone should ask IR that why did he opt for modern music with modern instruments than traditional one for this movie. Though we feel that it is not matching period film songs, we should hear from IR. Even I felt somewhat similar in Uliyin Osai too. Except Pazhaassi Raja rest all movie's songs not resembles period movies.

Any idea where can I buy ASK and PS album in Bangalore?
Pazhassi raja was a period film, but it was much closer . The music also reflected the genre and the period of the film. Even odanthanil , which slightly swayed , was still acceptable.

Uyilin oosai was a mix mag- the romantic numbers were synth filled and teh carnatic songs , by virtue of being carnatic fitted the genre and apt for the period.

Ask IR : WHo can ? he will have an philosphical answer .In some cases, our own knowledge and bias comes in the way. If somebody has to score the music exactly as how compositions were rendered 1000 years ago, it is impossible . There was a similar discussion about using synth in Ramaranalum of heyram - but the discussion was still open !

( Shreya praised a song , sung with chithra ( not thethillalangadi one ) . WOndering for which film !)

[raj_musing]

I was trying to relate that first song - "Kodi kotti koduthalum", with one recently heard song...I ended up with "Ella pughazum" from Azhagiya Tamil magan.Probably the rythms and the way the song started, gave me that "Deja Vu" feeling.

This song is indeed refreshing for me..

[rajabhakthan]

Listening to "thEdi vandha" in loop. For Shreya it is a piece of cake, I guess. So it is Ganjawala who takes the prize for his ganjaa filled singing. The rhythm section sways and swoons with the melody ...

[rajabhakthan]

And don't forget that both singers have a near flawless pronunciation. Very good job.

[irir123]

I think except for a few people, most of us want something that is 'appealing' rather than 'realistic' . That way , if the set reflects the theme of the movie , it should be ok -

This could be the first movie after 2000, that is written by Kalignar and could be a hit - My wife, who hates prasanth , saw the trailer and was urging me to book tickets - if they market well , the opening can be gud !

I have this uneasy feeling that besides the film itself, the music might actually become a 'patti-thotti' hit! such is IR's luck these days when he does something relatively 'generic' (by his own standards), the album might actually become a hit!

[MumbaiRamki]

itwofs review
http://itwofs.com/milliblog/2011/04/06/ponnar-shankar-music-review-tamil-ilayaraja/

waiting for the other umpire suresh !

[Sunil_M88]

All questions have been answered with this album - A very diverse album by Raaja sir.


My order of preference:


1. Annanmar Kathai / Bavani Varugiraa
2. Thedi Vantha Devadhai
3. Kodi Kotti Koduthalum / Kannai Padithen
4. Malar Villilae

[jaiganes]

I cant get "thedi vandha" out of my mind. Very enticing and seducing kinda song.
Malar ville - everyone says over orchestrated - but I feel is the awesomest song of its genre till date. The shape shifting done here is unbelievable.
Generic melody beginning with the chorus, ends in a thumping carnatic note - Awesome...
I think the PS team have tried to do a "300" type of period recreation instead of going authentic - very visible in the scenes in the trailer. Yet, synth konjam korachirukkalaam.. (not that it is bad or anything.. same goes for some loop usage..)

[jaiganes]

after a sombre 2010, 2011 has been very brisk and very varied..
Ayyan had two outstanding melodies which we have come to take for granted in every Raaja album.
Azhagar saamiyin kudhirai is a Dhoni sixer - all deliveries out of the park - but one felt it was more of 20-20.
So Ponnar Sankar is a proper one day and it is pretty electric - a very healthy strike rate here..
now whats up next ???

[MumbaiRamki]

jaiganes, apt metaphor !

I strongly feel , after repeated hearings that KR definetly has done some of the orchestration in few songs .Of course, we can never verify this ...

[raj_musing]

itwofs review
http://itwofs.com/milliblog/2011/04/06/ponnar-shankar-music-review-tamil-ilayaraja/

waiting for the other umpire suresh !
Fair review and I agree with Karthik on that Intro song ...Suresh might come strong and Karthik might refer DRS :)

[app_engine]

now whats up next ?

Me waiting for 'padiththuRai' (director SukA)...

After reading all these comments here, I'm now a little enthusiastic about listening to the Prashanth movie songs...may be sometime this evening...

[V_S]

Me waiting for 'padiththuRai' (director SukA)...

God only knows when Padithurai will release. Hopefully Arya will release after his MR's Ponniyin Selvan release. We have been waiting for this film and music for the past two years, not good at all. :sad:

[KV]

Ponnar Shankar - sumaara oru alavukku romba nallave irrukku.

Annamar kadhai, Bhavani varugira, Malar villilae - heady mix of styles, tunes and instruments. Nativity/authenticity and all, for this movie, I'd want to leave it to bhairavan, at one corner of the leaf. Just for these 3 songs, despite rough, uncut edges, I'd buy PS over the simplistic ASK.

Kannai pidithen, Thedi vandha - agmark love-it-loathe-it modern IR.

Kodi kotti - ostrich head in the sand dhaan. Raaja's kosuru for election campaign eh?

(It took a while to put behind that prankster's song list and accept this. Thumburu, I'm guessing you'd skip the album on the whole and listen just to the last minute of veena+flute piece finishing off Malar villilae!)

[dochu]

IMHO, the album is different. Not sure how most of the songs fit the 'period' film. I don't get that 'old' feel which one normally would expect.

[V_S]

Bavani Varugiraa - What is this man doing in this song! He has freaked out in this song and it seems asking indirectly "Yaaru Kitta". Normally for a folk tune, he used to give layers of western classical orchestration. Here I cannot believe what I am hearing. The tune is itself a blend of folk and WCM. Shreya's voice sounds like honey! The choir works as a backbone of this song. Apart from this surprise, there is no regular structure in this song, which is again unusual of IR (eventhough he has done sometimes depending on the situation of the song).
Starts with high energy pambai, drums. WCM style in pallavi (just like magalir mattum title) and just observe the scale change @1:38, goosebumps :notworthy: Suddenly after first pallavi, the songs takes you somewhere else. Again Shreya sings a different pallavi. Then what is it called I just listened a minute ago?. Shenai and the folk/WCM choir in the first interludes, heavenly. With the charanams, the song gets better and better. That post-lude again is the continuation from adiye ivale (saavadi!). Again the big plus of this song is we get to hear additional 2 minutes (compared to normal 5 min. song). This song is the best so far for me. Killer one! Definitely as RS said, this is a challenge song!

Malar Villilae - Haunting prelude chorus and very grand orchestration! Very fast and powerful tune! Shreya at her best! Chorus is overwhelming! Vintage 80's raja. The way chorus peaks and finishes and when Shreya starts 'Malar Villile' Wow stunning! I could not spot that 80's song which reminds me when I hear this song. Is it 'Adi Penne'? No, I don't think so. That bonus post-lude of 1 minute, Pinnitaar raasayya! Again a challenge song.

Kannai Padithen - What a tune! This is the depth we long for in today's generation songs. Raja vintage melody! nothing more to say, it will stay so long. Except the percussion rhythm is more louder for this kind of melody! Again Shreya and Sriram rendered beautifully. One more Andala Lokam! Again one minute bonus song!

Thedi Vantha Devadhai - Very different and refreshing tune. Shreya#4. When Shreya sings "kattikitten", ottikitten, "vekkapatten", "kathukkitten" with her diction, one will fall for her singing! Kunal and Shreya with their husky voices brings that erotic mood beautifully. Why is that humming @3:05? Unusal again (is that IR competing with current trend, please don't sir)

Annanmar - IR's at home. Madhu's singing is brilliant. Excellent mix of oratorio sytle and folk genre, only IR fossible! Prelude is energetic just like adiye ivale interludes. I didn't like the synthesized claps, violins and udukkai. Otherwise excellent!

Kodi Kotti Koduthalum - The violin arrangements in prelude and in pallavi reminds me of 'rakkamma kaiyathattu', but the latter one is special because of real instruments (is this one real or synthesized?). Orchestration is Excellent, but tune-wise the flow is there, but depth could have been better. But where is Chinmayee?

Those questions about period and how these songs match up with those, only Raja and Thiyagarajan can answer. Definitely, it would have been better if this has been taken into consideration. Also about the lyrics and the language spoken at that time. May be we are asking for too much here. Atleast song lyrics could be like Malar Villilae, sounds better.

Overall amazing and very grand soundtrack :thumbsup:, except synth going little overboard (first time I am experiencing!). I can listen to four songs anytime, anyday! But if you ask me a difficult question, if I give you either this or ASK, which one do you prefer? Eventhough, ASK has only three songs, I would go for ASK for its nativity, down to earth and innocent nature. :notworthy:

[V_S]

Thanks Ajay for the PS link!

[rajkumarc]

Ponnar Shankar availale on iTunes - http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/ponnar-shankar/id430617680. Looks like it just got released.

I couldn't find ASK on iTunes though.

[Nerd]

After the blissful veenai on mridangams in the 2nd interlude of malar villilE, you could hear the rhythm player using a synth pad which he stole from Airtel super singer. Thats how horrible it sounds. That sums up this album for me. There is not a single song minus these (albeit minor in some) irritations. I would take ASK any day over this Ponnar Synth Shankar. Waiting to hear them in better quality, may be then the songs will sound better.

Thedi Vantha dhevadhaiyE in loop. The 'modern' IR freaking out. I don't like Kunal's voice in this. Its an SPB song. ShreyaG is amazing like she always has been.

[V_S]

Ponnar Shankar availale on iTunes - http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/ponnar-shankar/id430617680. Looks like it just got released.

I couldn't find ASK on iTunes though.
Thanks bro!. That's a great news for those living outside India.

[vem]

awesome album!

the tunes stuck in my mind the first time I heard these melodies!

I hope the movie becomes a hit too.

[raja_fan]

Thanks for the link.
Average songs :(

[jaiganes]

Bavani Varugiraa - What is this man doing in this song! He has freaked out in this song and it seems asking indirectly "Yaaru Kitta". Normally for a folk tune, he used to give layers of western classical orchestration. Here I cannot believe what I am hearing. The tune is itself a blend of folk and WCM. Shreya's voice sounds like honey! The choir works as a backbone of this song. Apart from this surprise, there is no regular structure in this song, which is again unusual of IR (eventhough he has done sometimes depending on the situation of the song).
Starts with high energy pambai, drums. WCM style in pallavi (just like magalir mattum title) and just observe the scale change @1:38, goosebumps :notworthy: Suddenly after first pallavi, the songs takes you somewhere else. Again Shreya sings a different pallavi. Then what is it called I just listened a minute ago?. Shenai and the folk/WCM choir in the first interludes, heavenly. With the charanams, the song gets better and better. That post-lude again is the continuation from adiye ivale (saavadi!). Again the big plus of this song is we get to hear additional 2 minutes (compared to normal 5 min. song). This song is the best so far for me. Killer one! Definitely as RS said, this is a challenge song!

Malar Villilae - Haunting prelude chorus and very grand orchestration! Very fast and powerful tune! Shreya at her best! Chorus is overwhelming! Vintage 80's raja. The way chorus peaks and finishes and when Shreya starts 'Malar Villile' Wow stunning! I could not spot that 80's song which reminds me when I hear this song. Is it 'Adi Penne'? No, I don't think so. That bonus post-lude of 1 minute, Pinnitaar raasayya! Again a challenge song.

Kannai Padithen - What a tune! This is the depth we long for in today's generation songs. Raja vintage melody! nothing more to say, it will stay so long. Except the percussion rhythm is more louder for this kind of melody! Again Shreya and Sriram rendered beautifully. One more Andala Lokam! Again one minute bonus song!

Thedi Vantha Devadhai - Very different and refreshing tune. Shreya#4. When Shreya sings "kattikitten", ottikitten, "vekkapatten", "kathukkitten" with her diction, one will fall for her singing! Kunal and Shreya with their husky voices brings that erotic mood beautifully. Why is that humming @3:05? Unusal again (is that IR competing with current trend, please don't sir)

Annanmar - IR's at home. Madhu's singing is brilliant. Excellent mix of oratorio sytle and folk genre, only IR fossible! Prelude is energetic just like adiye ivale interludes. I didn't like the synthesized claps, violins and udukkai. Otherwise excellent!

Kodi Kotti Koduthalum - The violin arrangements in prelude and in pallavi reminds me of 'rakkamma kaiyathattu', but the latter one is special because of real instruments (is this one real or synthesized?). Orchestration is Excellent, but tune-wise the flow is there, but depth could have been better. But where is Chinmayee?

Those questions about period and how these songs match up with those, only Raja and Thiyagarajan can answer. Definitely, it would have been better if this has been taken into consideration. Also about the lyrics and the language spoken at that time. May be we are asking for too much here. Atleast song lyrics could be like Malar Villilae, sounds better.

Overall amazing and very grand soundtrack :thumbsup:, except synth going little overboard (first time I am experiencing!). I can listen to four songs anytime, anyday! But if you ask me a difficult question, if I give you either this or ASK, which one do you prefer? Eventhough, ASK has only three songs, I would go for ASK for its nativity, down to earth and innocent nature. :notworthy:

Good balanced review V_S..
I wrote this in the "latest raaja song thread" as a response to raj_musing. I thought it fits well into this discussion as well...
we are so nostalgic when it comes to Raaja and he has the most difficult job of having to pander to us and the current generation music listeners and balance the needs of both. Having said that , I like the synth work he has put in for ASK. It is trendy and in line with what yuvan or GVP might have done (little edges remain). However the soul of the song remains in the tune and that still is the same ol 70s- 80s raja that we remain rooted to in our nostalgia. With PS - the album requirements speak of grandeur - (however no money for Budapest here) - so he goes for the mix which is good too. The fact remains that the "idea" in the interludes are mindblowing - the counterpoints, the bass lines, the multi layered rhythms, the beat structure and tune that races to a climax in the end of malar villile are all awesome stuff which Raja has given us in bountiful quantities in the 80s and 90s. Glad to know that "ayya voodu" is still wide open..

[V_S]

I like the synth work he has put in for ASK. It is trendy and in line with what yuvan or GVP might have done (little edges remain). However the soul of the song remains in the tune and that still is the same ol 70s- 80s raja that we remain rooted to in our nostalgia. With PS - the album requirements speak of grandeur - (however no money for Budapest here) - so he goes for the mix which is good too.
Exactly, well said Jai! ASK is extremely satisfying with Maestro utilizing synth more amicably and it sounded so beautiful. Here I didn't feel so, as I mentioned in couple of songs I was little scary on its (synth) approach. It was rather loud too. Also that humming in Thedi vantha was not necessary. If you take out those, the soul of the song is never compromised that is default for any raja's song. My worry is, he should not knuckle under to keep it with the current trend. Raja should be doing what he is doing, just like that evergreen second interlude of Gum Sum Gum of Paa, refreshing Edaya Bagilu or even that magical sax in second interlude in Chinna Polike.

I remember about MSV sir now, not doing anything different except in Ninaithale Inikkum, where he made people turn around him. But if you hear some of his later year gems, Thirumaalin Thirumaarbil, Andamanai Paarungal, or Kana Kaanum Kangal, I used to argue with my father that they were very dull compared to Raja's songs that time (early 80's). But looking back now, those songs stood the test of time. So ultimately for me, the longevity matters rather than attracting the current generation for few impulses.

[jaiganes]

Listening to Kannai padithen - the first interlude - flute play - is wonderful - but to be frank - it resembles the work of Joshua Sridhar in "Kalloori" - who is learning and following who?
Did anyone else get the resemblance?

[Sunil_M88]

Kodi Kotti Koduthalum has the nineties feel written all over it and the instrumentation supports this. It starts off as a song at a concert where the artists are getting the crowd to join in with the fun. When those Bhangra beats drop in the concluding lude the song reaches an all time high. The song is a complete misfit in this album like this but that’s what makes it stand out for me. The synth backing the charanam is a very video gamey like sound and has a very pleasing childlike innocence. However it’s the orchestration that delivers that nineties funch with full throttle.

[jaiganes]

Kodi Kotti Koduthalum has the nineties feel written all over it and the instrumentation supports this. It starts off as a song at a concert where the artists are getting the crowd to join in with the fun. When those Bhangra beats drop in the concluding lude the song reaches an all time high. The song is a complete misfit in this album like this but that’s what makes it stand out for me. The synth backing the charanam is a very video gamey like sound and has a very pleasing childlike innocence. However it’s the orchestration that delivers that nineties funch with full throttle.
yeah. particularly the racy postlude that packs in notes one after the another in some kind of frenzy. In fact most of the songs in this album - no matter what their beat structure is, end as if "end is near"...

[V_S]

Two ears are not enough for Malar Villilae. Would like to listen to this for the whole day. What is the raaga of this song? Is it Sudha Saveri?. Vel, Raagas, Suresh or anyone? The Pallavi and the second interlude loosely takes me to Malargalil Aadum (Kalyana raman) and Maanaada Kodi (Mudhal Vasantham). This is just a wild guess from a layman.

[MumbaiRamki]

ponnar shankar releasing today !

[raagas]

Two ears are not enough for Malar Villilae. Would like to listen to this for the whole day. What is the raaga of this song? Is it Sudha Saveri?. Vel, Raagas, Suresh or anyone? The Pallavi and the second interlude loosely takes me to Malargalil Aadum (Kalyana raman) and Maanaada Kodi (Mudhal Vasantham). This is just a wild guess from a layman.

Malar Villilae seems like Brindavan Saaranga/Madhyamavathi to me, atleast by the main tune. need to listen to interludes and charanams again to see if there are any other raagas there!

[Devaraagam]

HI,

Can some one throw me light on where I can get teh songs? itunes is restricted only to people live in US. (US store) not available in Middle east store or Indian Store.

[rooky]

There is grandeur in music for sure and may be the rapport between thiyagarajan and Raja shows and for your information movie is releasing tomorrow and looks like a wide release in bangalore (no multiplexes though).

[raj_musing]

Review of ASK in itwofs

http://itwofs.com/milliblog/2011/03/16/azhagarsaamiyin-kudhirai-music-review-tamil-ilayaraja/#

[raagas]

Annamar Kathai - The prelude is soft and immediately the shehnai/dappus change that feel. Then we have the folk tune. So far, the song does work well even in period context, because there is nothing unperiod-film-like till here. What surprises me is when the song starts - Annamar Kathai. I felt the flow is missing when the song switches from folk choral lines to this line. If we can overcome this hiccup, then the song flows well. The Bhairavi-based first interlude is amazing. The synth percussions during chorus rendition, kind of add contemporary touch but thats ok. The percussions keep changing. Even the tune. The unpredictability of this song is good. Although this is not a typical melody based number that can be enjoyed at any time. It is situational. And raaja does fine job, though I might not listen to this song frequently. (Rating: 3/5 - only because i will listen to it less frequently)

Bavani Varugira: The beginning portions cannot be pegged to any period as such. They can sound good even if set in contemporary times. The guitar riffs & bass bounces during shreya Ghoshal's start are the ones that steps down the period-feel aspect although I like that stuff. So, period-feel be damned, its cool. The percussions too are more earthy in this song, though generated from synth. So thats fine enough. Nice folk melody driven song. The synth elements do not really pierce out from the arrangements negating the period-feel. They somehow stay within limits - i feel. Only the bass stands out, which is unusual for a period-feel. But what can we do. :-| (Rating: 4/5)

Kannai Padithen: I think this is the most lovely composition of this album. Heavily riding on synth, it is difficult to place this song in a period-film, going by its treatment. But if we look at melody alone, it can very much fit the premise. But the arrangements - they transfix this into any contemporary premise. The songs works tremendously. amazing melody. nice renditions. Even the violins seem synthesizer generated (unfortunate - but what can we do). Except the flute, I dont know if there are any more real instruments here. But what a beautiful sweet melody. I see shades of Hamsadhwani but I need to listen to it more identify exactly. (Rating: 10/5 - yes i mean 10/5)

Malar Villilae: Grand prelude (though synthesizer based). I felt this song is based on raag Brindavan Saranga. Lot of synth sounds accompany the vocals. I bfelt the instruments somehow overpower the vocals in this song, volume-wise. Not that vocals are not audible but just that there seem to be too many instruments/sounds competing with each other to take that forefront spot, along with vocals. Matter of sound engineering/mixing i Guess. But wonderfully crafted interludes and brilliant charanams. I dont need to talk much about the postlude. Phenomenal work. I think this song will have a grand picturisation with lot of dancers and stuff and crane camera movements. The song sounds that BIG. (rating: 4/5)

Thedi Vantha Devathai - Absolutely non-periodic in sound and arrangements. The tweaky sounds at 0:25secs is far too contemporary. Shreya Ghoshal sounds better than Kunal Ganjawala (I somehow never liked his singing usually). The tune is very much 80s raaja. This is like erotic 80s raja updated to version 2.0. Again, we cant listen to this song at all times, especially at home, with elders around - given the style of rendition. But the music in this song - phenomenal. Very groovy number. (rating: 3.75/5)

Kodi Kotti - The song that I didnt enjoy despite listening to it 5 times. The synth percussions and stuff failed to impress. It neither has period-feel. Nor any of the impressive aspects like other songs (a beautiful tune - No; interesting arrangements - No). I can understand if any other composer composed this song (if any other composer would have composed this song - I am sure some IR fans would have ripped that composer apart :-) citing various negatives), but nah.. i cant expect this from IR. The weakest song of the album. (rating - 0.5/5 - strictly my opinion folks)

Is Period-feel must in period films?: Now, let me add my bit to the ongoing discussion about period-feel. Is Period-feel important in a period film? I would say YES(to a large extent), IF the film is by Ilaiyaraaja. Why? Because we all often praise him for one (among many) aspect - He gives music that is 'apt' to the theme/style/story/nativity etc. He understands the pulse of any film well and composes music 'according' to that pulse. So, from that point of view - for a period film, it is not wrong expect that Ilaiyaraaja should justify a period film with 'proper' arrangements. Ilaiyaraaja did that with films such as Kaalapani, Bharathi, Pazhassi Raja. But he failed, in maintaining period feel, in couple of songs in this album and lets not flinch from admitting that. Imagine, if these films too had too much of synth quotient - would they have the same impact on us? Now imagine a song such as "Thedi Vathu" or "Poothadhu poovu"(jagan Mohini) in Ilaiyaraaja's upcoming film "Rama Rajyam". Dont we feel that it would be incongruent or misfit, arrangements-wise? I think any composer should try to create music that carries the sounds/feel of the scenes, settings to a good extent with some space for contemporary embellishments just to make the songs sound good on ears (and commercial viability).

That said, does it really matter to our ears/mind whether the music suits the film's context or not? I mean, the experience of 'period feel' is limited only to the 3 hours when we are watching the film. when we listen to an album - all we are bothered about is whether we liked the album/song or not. We obviously dont fit the relevance of sounds by imagining the film in our mind because we are busy listening to music and not seeing the film. So from that point of view, it is alright if the album has good songs. Now what any composer can do is to maintain that fine balance between acoustic music & synth elements just to give a feel that evokes the period and yet sounds novel. In my opinion, Ilaiyaraaja achieved that in Pazhassi Raja & Kalapani to a great extent. In this film, looking at overall execution, that balance seems to be missing. But that is compensated with wonderful songs (except for Kodi Katti). So the best way I can enjoy this album is to erase the fact - that this is a period film - from my memory and treat it as a standalone album.

Overall Rating: From what the album offers to me, after all reconciliations :-) I would give 4/5 to this album. This album offers much more to me than ASK & Ayyan. The songs that I will listen to frequently are Kannai Parthen, Malar Villilae, Thedi Vantha & Bavani Varugira. There IS an overdose of synth, which I wish he avoided but i think that is compensated with the quality of tunes, so we can mark it as a tie there!

To cut my long story short(after telling the long story :-) ), Ilaiyaraaja doesnt disappoint and I still believe he can deliver great music. Bring it on sir!

[entertainment]

This album offers much more to me than ASK & Ayyan.

Yes, personally I would also rate PS Album better than ASK.

[prasad_subbu]

I could only think of one thing when I hear so much synth in period film by IR.

On one of his earlier interviews, when he was asked about synth usage, he said he will use them only when

1) A new sound is required which classical instrument do not provide.
2) When he do not find players in a given time frame for completing recording.

1) is ruled out here. 2) is a possibility.

May be he had tight deadlines during which he could found classical instrument players busy and hence resorted to synth. Some body having inside information close to production house can confirm this. Or else, why would IR create such beautiful tunes and fail to use classical instruments which could have lifted them by several notches?

[V_S]

Raagas,
Excellent review!. :clap: Very well dissected and well summed up too! Very nice! Enjoyed reading. yes these four beautiful melodies are here to stay for long long time. And thanks for the raaga of Malar Villilae.

[raj_musing]

When I read the review of ragaas the only question I still have is whether this is infact a "Complete periodic" movie or a kind of Semi stuff where raja had to play that dual role of being periodic and slightly trendy as well.

Somebody who has watched the movie,with visuals can give a better understanding of the songs and the situations.Kaalapani and PR were completely periodic and raja exactly matched the situation with his music.

[jaiganes]

When I read the review of ragaas the only question I still have is whether this is infact a "Complete periodic" movie or a kind of Semi stuff where raja had to play that dual role of being periodic and slightly trendy as well.

Somebody who has watched the movie,with visuals can give a better understanding of the songs and the situations.Kaalapani and PR were completely periodic and raja exactly matched the situation with his music.
Or "Sri Raghavendrar" or "Sri Shirdi Sai Mahathiyam" - All these were period films and Raja's music fitted in so well . So he has gotten us used to a kind of "period music". Let us wait and see if this movie is a "period movie" or a "period fantasy" like 300, where all the electric guitars justified themselves well..

[rajkumarc]

Nice reviews Raagas & VS :clap: Overall, a wonderful album. Have to listen to it a few more times to do any kind of review. Based on the intial listening, I love Malar Villile, Thedi Vantha, Kannai Padithen mainly due to the tune, orchestration and Shreya's singing. Annanmar Kathai & Bavani Varugira are very impressive and they are IR's home territory. The orchestration overall is very impressive and I see IR embracing synth more without compromising on his style. That's good enough for me. I am liking his synth based work and he is mixing it well with the traditional instruments so that synth does not stand out glaringly.

Very impressed by Ponnar Shankar. It's going to be on the loop for a while.

[V_S]

Waiting to hear them in better quality, may be then the songs will sound better.
iTunes quality is very good much better than raaga site.

[jaiganes]

No matter what we can crib about various "irritants" like over synth here and there, this is one sweet Rich album - a sort that every die hard Raaja fan dreams of before waking up to open this thread in the morning..

The second interlude of kannai padithen takes one back to 90s to the times of Aathma and Paattu paadavaa - One even gets a whisp of "Enthan nenjil " from Kalaignan there..

[writeface]

Bought the album from itunes.

I love Bhavani Varugira.. Excellent stuff. Only IR can swing this way!
Malar vilililE - I keep thinking it is done by Karthik Raaja! (Why!) Kannai PadiththEn sounds like vidyasaagar to me:)

[jaiganes]

Bought the album from itunes.

I love Bhavani Varugira.. Excellent stuff. Only IR can swing this way!
Malar vilililE - I keep thinking it is done by Karthik Raaja! (Why!) Kannai PadiththEn sounds like vidyasaagar to me:)

Kannaip padithEn is a mix of Vidyasagar and Joshua sridhar. Good thing is it resembles their "best " ;-)
On the overall - this is "put in an infinite loop" kinda album.

[skr]

Seems like Ponnar Shankar has hit the screens and even a review has been out surprisingly praising the movie..
Read the last line 'If you are ready to forget some loopholes (which you will hardly find), Ponnar Shankar is a great film to watch (especially on big screen)!
http://tamil.galatta.com/entertainment/review/reviewnews/n/829671022/movie/Ponnar%20Shankar.html

[skr]

Returned after a one week net hiatus since i was away and read all the postings and hearing the songs parallelly..
Very nice reviews by VS,Jai,Raagas and others..
Im totally hooked on to Kannai Padithen..on 1st hear Malar Vilile is also very nice to hear..
Regarding the Raga of Malar Vilile,this was the thoughts of my friend who is an expert at Raagas..
'Malar Vilile starts in Suddha Dhanyasi, gives a feel of Mohanam and changes to Brindavana Saranga so effortlessly..

Btw should apologise for the wrong info regarding the songs and the singers..it must have given gr8 disappointment to all Hubbers(incl me)..
The news of the songs were posted by a user on Wikipedia after the audio release..so thought the info was authentic but it turned out to be April Fools Day Prank ..

[San_K]

onlynikil Nikil Murugan tweet:

Amazing responses from the Press and Media for Ponnar Shankar..Congrats Prasanth..

[San_K]

Kannai PadiththEn sounds like vidyasaagar to me


Kannaip padithEn is a mix of Vidyasagar and Joshua sridhar. Good thing is it resembles their "best " ;-)
On the overall - this is "put in an infinite loop" kinda album.

yeppa mudiyala

[raj_musing]

I was trying to imagine a few other playback singers who could have fit better into some of these songs:-

SPB singing that introduction song. Perhaps there would be more fans for this song then :)
Chitra singing "Kannai Padithen" instead of Shreya. Not that Shreya is bad,but since this is a kind of duet,where chitra could have brought more Alankaram to this song. Chitra is not seen much in any of Raja songs in tamil.She has still not lost her 'golden touch' and is highly missed in some songs.

Iam not a Shriram Parthasarathy fan,and would have been more happy to get someone else sing this with an "open" voice.

With the decline of all those veterans,its a tough job, to fit people in some of raja's melodies.

[Shankar.P]

http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/REVIEW/2011/ponnarsankar.asp

இசைஞானி இளையராஜாவின் எல்லையற்ற சுதந்திரம், நம் காதுகளை மயங்க வைத்த மந்திரம்! பின்னணி இசையோ காட்சிக்கு காட்சி பேசுகிறது. 'கண்ணை படித்தேன்...' பாடலில் பழனி பாரதியின் வரிகளும், ஸ்ரீராம் பார்த்த சாரதி ஷ்ரேயா கோஷலின் குரல்களும், ராஜாவின் பிரசன்ட்டேஷனும் கலந்து சொர்க்கத்தின் கதவுகளை விரிய திறக்கிறது.

[MumbaiRamki]

Nikhil murugan - he is a pRO guy , what do you expect . My bulleted review !

1) What is prasanth thinking about this character ? This is not a cow boy role ! Pathetic performance from him. Ponnar shankar are being worshipped as gods in a community . Sadly missing .

2) Screenplay is just butchered - there is no focus on characters nor on plot. very poor adaptation of the book . Scenes dont follow a logical sequence - they neither explain a character nor create a twist . They are just loosely stiched , as if kalaignar decided to tear the ponnar shankar book and the director picked up random pages.

3) There are just too many names - you need to be slow here . At end of the movi e, i could barely remember anything.

4) Yes - the interval fight sequence is fairly good and is expected , but why this rope-drop from the fort , resulting in a high-five between the leads !

5) Sneha should really choose good movies - for an actor who can emote well, bowing to the pressure of ruling party sponsored films wont do any good. You dont need a sneha to fit into a role whose best chance of acting comes in the songs !!! Shocking sneha !!

6) Title score , interlaced with pop-ish drums and orchestra -sorry raja , cannot digest this !


7) Ponnar shankar - heck , two characters , but are they same ? What is their mental make up ? Why are they so passionate about the promise ? WHat do they respect more ? You can never find any clue


8) The lead heroines are best doing what they did before the film - Ads . navels , clevages wont do any good ! Sorry , better luck next time .

9) Only gud thing was the BGM,songs - not that it was fantastic , but it offered me a chance to forget the film , close ur eyes and listen to it - but considering the damage being doen visually, raaja culd not do much here .

10)Yes- this is the best of the new genre - "kalignar scripted ", but far from being good . Very very average .,


Finally , if you bump into a senior film buf who advises /voices his opinion about the film even without seeing it , listen to it . I did not and incurred 200 bucks including the stupid pop corn !

[K]

http://adrasaka.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-post_09.html

இசை இளையராஜா.. சொல்லவே வேணாம்.. சரித்திரப்பின்னணி என்றதுமே அவரது திறமை எப்படி இருக்கும் என.. பாடல் காட்சிகளில், பின்னணி இசையில், போர்க்காட்சிகளில் என மனிதர் கலக்கி விட்டார்...

[raj_musing]

Mumbai Ramki,

Are you sure you watched Ponnar shankar itself :)

Surprisingly all the reviews including the public opinion.below, is very positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBiT0F3sne4

[baroque]

mmmm....need to get the book and read it.

like it or not, glad they are taking more historical movies/documentaries

சேர, சோழ, பாண்டிய ,மௌரிய ,விஜயாலய சாம்ராஜ்யங்களின் கதைகள் very interesting .
proud of our Indian heritage , civilization , culture & history

vinatha.

[MumbaiRamki]

Mumbai Ramki,

Are you sure you watched Ponnar shankar itself :)

Surprisingly all the reviews including the public opinion.below, is very positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBiT0F3sne4

yes sir - it is my opinion :) i went with some expectations ....
In mayajaal , people came out frustrated . There were only 20 people totally !

[MumbaiRamki]

Mumbai Ramki,

Are you sure you watched Ponnar shankar itself :)

Surprisingly all the reviews including the public opinion.below, is very positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBiT0F3sne4

sir, saw the video .. semaya kindal pani irukanga!!!

[skr]

Happi release date postponed to 20th May 2011 from 15th Apr 2011..so we have to wait a bit longer to get drenched by the WCM of Maestro ..
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/movies/cast/14269/index.html

[Sureshs65]

Been out of station for more than a week and when I come back I see that you can hear Ponnar Shankar music but you cannot buy the CD!!! What a state of affairs!!!

Listening to it on raaga.com. Before I write my review of this album, a couple of observations:

First, who would have thunk!!! I mean, when they announced that a movie called 'Ponnar-Shankar' was being made based on MuKa's script, the only thing that the Raja fan prayed was that the music must be by Deva!!! Infact someone posted that as a fact and we were quite satisfied. For no MuKa script has been made into a decent movie. (Whether you blame it on the script or on the director I leave to your political affiliations.) Given that the movie was going to have Prasanth as the lead, and he has not had a decent hit for quite some time now, was not encouraging. So when suddenly news cropped up that the music was indeed by Raja, many squirmed uncomfortably. So as I said, who would have thunk that this movie would have such music!!!

Second, there is no use trying to see this movie as a historical. For all practical purposes, the movie would be like a vehicle for Prasanth to try and reclaim lost glory. (From Ramki's review, that looks unlikely.) As lot of people have suggested, you just need to treat this as a fantasy or a hero oriented movie, which for its backdrop has a historical setting. So no use listening to the music thinking that we will get another 'PazhassiRaja'. For Thiayagarajan is no Hariharan and MuKa is no MTV!!!

With those observations out of the way, let me try and put my thoughts about the music. Probably not going to say things which are much different from what has been said earlier by Jai, V_S, raagas and others. But then, who doesn't have the urge to put their thoughts down :) So bear with me.

[Sureshs65]

First, let's get the weakest link in the album out of the way. 'kodi kotti koduthalum' has a very standard structure and a standard accompaniment as well. There definitely is a lot of energy in the song and I particularly am amazed that Raja can get such an accompaniment done on synth. I personally like 'rama rajyam' from 'Gayam-2' in this type of genre more. Wish this intro song was more on the lines of 'chozha vala naadu' of 'Uliyin Oosai'. The song which can easily be accused of not being in the spirit of an historical.

Which leads us to the next song, 'Annanmaar Kadhai'. Initially I though this would be something on the lines of 'karumathur kaatukulle' from 'Virumandi'. But as Hulk had pointed out the orchestration and the movements suggest the 'Tiruvasagam' influence more. The song starts off on a superb ryhthm, which increases it speed and then slows itself to accommodate the singers who sing with the typical folk lilt. Madhu stars 'annanmaaru kadhaya' with the tavil as accompaniment. Somehow not convinced that he is the best choice here. The other singers bring a lot of folk flavour to the song but Madhu does not have the 'folk voice'. After he sings his line, you can hear the Tiruvasagam effect. The female chorus sounds so similar to 'muthu natramam' song from 'Tiruvasagam'. The synthesizers in the background try to give the symphonic effect. The interludes have the synthesizers playing and the nadaswaram joining in. This is one song in which real violins and maybe the Budapest Orchestra playing would have added a lot of value. Especially when Madhu sings the sad parts. Raja moves between pure folk and a western chorus without spoiling the spirit of the song as only he can. I particularly like all the female chorus in this song. So very melodious. For me the song is worth just for that folk voice which at the end sings that short melody. What a melodic line that is.

Now come the four songs which people don't seem to have any problem about. 'bhavani varugira' gives us no clue on how it will develop in its prelude. The initial chorus points to a different direction. The whole chorus is like a modern folk. The folk soul exists and Raja puts jeans over it. Then the whole ambience changes suddenly with the synth guitar strums. Shreya makes a melodious entry and slowly the folk element starts coming up while Raja still retains the modern elements with the synth beats. The first interlude with the shenoy and thavil and later the chorus gives the song an unexpected twist. The charanam is vintage Raja. The melody increasing as the song progresses and you not able to guess which way the tune will flow. Unexpectedness is the hallmark of this song. The tavil and the conch like sound in second interlude is followed by the synthesizer playing its melody. The 'ya ya' chorus reminds me of the 'Jaganmohini' song, where he uses such a chorus to terrific effect. The postlude is a bonus, with the rhythm guys freaking out.

Which brings us to the song of the album, 'kannai padithen'. A wonderful prelude violin (synth?) plays what sounds like Hamsadhwani while the chorus seem to avoid giving the Hamsadhwani twinge, giving a very different effect. As irir123 pointed out, this sounds like an old Hindi melody. I would like to think of this song as a S D Burman melody riding on an O P Nayyar beat!!! The flute making its appearance before the pallavi ends, the plaintive violin in the interlude, followed by the violin banks playing Hamsadhwani. Typical Raja. No one else possible. The melody per se doesn't sound like Hamsadhwani. The charanam has the same magic, the melody increasing as the charanam progresses. It is as if you are in the midst of a field caught in a shower of melody. The second interlude keeps up the spirit of the first interlude with the flute occasionally peeping in to add to the melody. No wonder raagas gave it 10 out of 5 !!!

'thedi vandha devadhai' is the mandatory erotic number in such films. 'Jagan Mohini' had 'poothadhu poovu', 'Kannukkulle' had 'pacha meni'. But compared to 'poothadhu poovu' I think this is a more melodious number, with Shreya's voice contributing to the melodic quotient. The rhythm, as in many Raja songs with the erotic touch, is in a start stop mode. He rarely uses a flowing rhythm for such songs. When you see Kunal Ganjawala's name on a Tamil song you are apprehensive. It is not that bad I must say :) The interludes get as modern as they can with the chorus and the synth. An enjoyable melody.

Which brings us to the last song and one which in my opinion competes with 'kannai padithen' for the title of the best song. Again, the prelude suggests a direction which the pallavi doesn't take. The strains of Madhyamavathi / Brindavana Saranga heard in the pallavi get accentuated when Shreya starts the pallavi. A lovely touch of guitar like sound and then the female chorus keep the melody flowing. The first interlude is rather standard I would say, it is the second interlude which takes the cake. The charanam is just amazing, with Shreya and the chorus alternatively singing. This tune can only be thought of by Raja. Of that I am very sure. The second interlude has flute, mridangam joining in and then Raja moves the melody using the synthesizer with phrases only he can conjure up. The second charanam ending has the mridagam joining in, the effect of which is delicious. The postlude again is an excellent bonus to us. Outstanding melody.

Overall an album in which Raja has freaked out, in terms of tune, in terms of melody and in terms of experimentation. Keeping in mind that everything is done on synth, this is incredible indeed. Except for one of two, the choice of singers in apt. This is a Shreya Ghoshal album. Her voice reeks melody and suits every song that she sings. Happy that she was free and Raja didn't have to chose Bela Shinde. I have no problems with Bela's voice but her Tamil is atrocious. Shreya has improved leaps and bounds in this area and her diction is superb.

So only thing for us to do is to buy the CD. If and when it releases. EKSI.

[ramk1]

After a long time, this is one album which i thought of buying the CD, but couldn't get hold of this. Some shopwalas dont even know this movie yet.

[Shankar.P]

http://tamil.galatta.com/entertainment/review/reviewnews/n/829671022/movie/Ponnar%20Shankar.html

http://www.hindu.com/cp/2011/04/10/stories/2011041050040200.htm

[vem]

http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/tamil/review/10403.html

music of Ilayaraja disappoints; fails to enter our ears--I wonder if the reviewer knows what music is.... not even one song entered his ear(s)

[jaiganes]

funniest review on a movie's music i have read..:-)

[V_S]

Wonderful review Suresh ji! :clap: I am also slowly forgetting the synth quotient and surrendering to these top class melodies. Every morning I wake up and every night again ends up with these fascinating melodies. It takes a Maestro to come up with these sweet, fresh, free-flowing, yet powerful, in-depth and soulful compositions. :notworthy:

[thumburu]

After reading all the wonderful, insightful reviews of most of you guys around, I could not resist my temptation to listen to PS. As my illuck would have it, i CUDN'T ACCESS THE GODDAMN RAAGA SITE AND MUSIC INDIA OR PAADAL ALSO DON'T HAVE IT. iNSTEAD i thought its better late than never and heard much to my dismay, Raja's recent ASK :(. Not even 1 song impressed me compltely. Kuthikira kuyhikira begs for a versatile,effortless singer of SPB's caliber and why is Raja singing it? His voice is terrible . If only SPB had sung, it would have become another "vethalai vethalai yo" . The taut tempo and cool synth interlude music combined with SPB's voice could have made for an interesting listen. Did any of u feel the opening fluttering like a butterfly music resembling the "kothumbi" thiruvasagam number?

adiyE IVALE - i DONT KNOW WHETHER rAJA HAD PUT ANY EFFORT FOR THIS PROSE LIKE FOLK SONG. eVEN PUSHPAVANAM CUD HAVE COME UP WITH SOMETHIng better.

poovakeLu - Rehash of odathannil of pazhassiraja and "hey konji pesi" of "kaadhal kavidhai" -Here and there some glimpses of old brilliance in the inter charanam music and interludes. Thats all. Iam waiting with impatience for ponnar shankar

[Sureshs65]

thumburu,

Would love to have your uncompromising views on Ponnar Shankar. Hope you get to listen to it soon.

On ASK, I will beg to differ about the kuthirai song. It would have lost its nativity if SPB had sung it. The imperfection of Raja's voice adds a lot to the song and my guess is it will suit the character in the film better. We can decide on this only when the film is released :)

[vel]

thumburu,

Would love to have your uncompromising views on Ponnar Shankar. Hope you get to listen to it soon.

On ASK, I will beg to differ about the kuthirai song. It would have lost its nativity if SPB had sung it. The imperfection of Raja's voice adds a lot to the song and my guess is it will suit the character in the film better. We can decide on this only when the film is released :)

Uncompromising? Ha ha haa, i am sure you were pulling legs here...Perhaps "biased and/or highly subjective" views is a better adjective. The careless sarcasm tells it all, as it was intended and pretty unnecessary here...To say Kuthirai song deserved SPB better to IR--who has done an outstanding job here--is just as horrible as attributing 'vethala vethala' to SPB, when the credit is due for Malaysia vasu....all proof of an impatient, hurried and shallow review ... [reminds me of ....well forget it :))]

As much as someone relishes writing such scathing remarks, indirectly it only shows how they are all TOTALLY dependent and highly expectant on IR to deliver on and on and on like a perpetual music machine....They have nowhere else to go, other than IR, to flaunt their knowledge....just wondering if the thiruvizha song had some raga pattern or some WCM pattern, it would suit such "uncompromising" reviewers more than how it does now....

adhu enna "even" pushpavanam"? Pushpavanam who knows over 3000 folk numbers is no less an achiever than those "i-know-30-keerthanais" carnatic sabha fellows....In order to put down IR, you also drag someone else and say "even" pushpavanam??

And since when did Raja's voice become 'imperfect' ?? Raja wanted to sound like a raw voice here and we all know it was intended...

[rajasaranam]

Ponnar Shankar Good Quality ACD Rips are available all over the net which means the CD's have hit the market already. Hopefully I'll buy the ACD by today itself :)

[rajasaranam]

CD Cover says Kunal Kanchanwalai :D
http://www.grantimage.com/show.php/28071_ponnar-shankar-00-back.jpg.html

[rajasaranam]

Vel,

இதத்தான் ஆப்பு வைக்கிறதுன்னு சொல்வாங்களா?!! :)

[vel]

rajasaranam,

annae, en indha kola veri....naan sonnadhula edhaavadhu thappu irundhadha?

Aappu ellam vaikkala....just a piece of my mind for the peace of my mind :)

[rajasaranam]

rajasaranam,

annae, en indha kola veri....naan sonnadhula edhaavadhu thappu irundhadha?

Aappu ellam vaikkala....just a piece of my mind for the peace of my mind :)

சரி ஷறீ... வாழைப்பழத்தில ஊசி ஏத்தறது. நீங்க சொன்னது முழுக்க உடன்பட வேண்டிய கருத்து!
இந்த மாதிரி எதிர் கருத்துகள மேட்டிமைதனம்ன்னு நாசுக்கா நான் சொன்னா நம்ம சுரேஷ் சார் கோச்சுக்குவார் :d

[raagas]

CD Cover says Kunal Kanchanwalai :D
http://www.grantimage.com/show.php/28071_ponnar-shankar-00-back.jpg.html

hehehehe! thats funny :-)

[thumburu]

thumburu,

Would love to have your uncompromising views on Ponnar Shankar. Hope you get to listen to it soon.

On ASK, I will beg to differ about the kuthirai song. It would have lost its nativity if SPB had sung it. The imperfection of Raja's voice adds a lot to the song and my guess is it will suit the character in the film better. We can decide on this only when the film is released :)

Hi Suresh, thank you for your understanding and I dont think the question of compromise or uncompromise arises here in this free forum where one can post what he or she opines about an album.As you had said in one of your posts, it is the urge to post one's opinion regarding a new music album that drives this thread . Suresh, regarding "kuthikira", I agree on the Raja's voice suiting the nativity part . I would have approved of Raja's voice in 70's or 80's when it had all the rustic youthfulness left. Now all I hear is a strained old man's voice singing for an innocent youth. You can ask me if SPB is young ,but his voice can still pull off that required youthful exuberance with nativity intact. Well, this is strictly IMO :)
I was wrong about the song quoted as example. It must be "maaman oru naaL". ok,I must listen to PS without delay

[Sureshs65]

Vel,

What I meant is that thumburu tells her views as she feels about the song. Uncompromising here means that not moderating your views (or bias) because you are posting in a forum where lot of others may have a different opinion. I don't have a problem with that. I personally love the music in ASK irrespective of what thumburu or someone else feels. I am always open to opposing views since it also tells us how Raja's music is being received by a wider audience.

RS: yov, 'metima geetima ellan illa. Everyone is expressing their liking. So here I go scolding you :)

[Sureshs65]

The music of 'Gayam-2' and 'Ponnar Shankar' are in wonderful contrast and give an idea of what techniques Raja is trying. Here is my brief analysis of the music of these two movies.

In 'Gayam-2', Raja predominently uses the synthesizer within its limitations. While he does layer his music, he brings to fore the piano type of sound. The melody of the piano is predominant in most of the songs there. In some other songs one particular instrument is more predominant that the other, like the violin (real or synth). He doesn't try to give a grand symphonic feel with many instruments playing at approximately the same volume. This gives a good separation of sound and also a sparse feel to the songs. 'andala lokam' and 'endhukamma prema'. Even in a song like 'Rama Rajyam', Raja achieves the angry feel more by the beats rather than trying to play too many instruments (on the synth) together. To me 'Gayam -2' was the best recorded album of Raja in recent times and the sparsness of the instrumentation has something to do with it. Added to this, the feel of the album was more of jazz.

Coming to 'Ponnar Shankar', what Raja seems to be trying here is to give the symphonic feel using only the synthesizer. I am sure there are lot of software / plug ins or whatever they are called available in the market but Raja wants to leave his own stamp behind. This is very evident in the 'annanmaar' song. The synthesizer is used to try and create the feel of a symphonic orchestra and truthfully that shows. In the other songs as well, when there is a constant accompanient in the background, providing for the harmony, you can 'hear' the synthesizer. As kiru used to constantly say, Raja wants to recreate his brand of music using the synthesizer. In other words, Raja is trying for a replacement of a manual orchestra using the synthesizer. He doesn't want to compromise on his ideas but maybe due to the financial constraints of the producers has to compromise on using the synthesizer. In my opinion what Raja seems to be trying is a very big thing. Getting the same effect on the synthesizer as a manual orchestra is not an easy thing I guess. I do understand that the recording technique may not be upto the standards to others but even in the music of other MDs you can clearly make out the instruments which are played on the synth.

In other words, if Raja uses his jazz style and orchestrates keeping the limitations of the synth in mind, you will not have complaints from people about the synth. It is only when Raja is trying to push the boundaries of synth that we will have all these complaints. As usual, whatever Raja does, to understand his ideas is going to take some time for all of us.

[vel]

Contrasting views are always welcome for me as well...provided it is without the unwanted sarcasm, offensively condescending finality, and/or disturbing bias...

Looks lot better now....thats a welcome sign...

[vel]

sambhavami ugae ugae....

[raj_musing]

. In other words, Raja is trying for a replacement of a manual orchestra using the synthesizer. He doesn't want to compromise on his ideas but maybe due to the financial constraints of the producers has to compromise on using the synthesizer. In my opinion what Raja seems to be trying is a very big thing. Getting the same effect on the synthesizer as a manual orchestra is not an easy thing I guess. I do understand that the recording technique may not be upto the standards to others but even in the music of other MDs you can clearly make out the instruments which are played on the synth.

.

Suresh,

The feel or "Sukham" of that manual orchestra arrangement is just unexplainable. Synthesiser may come close, but cannot replace our veteran orchestra.raja is experimenting and trying hard to fit his musical style into this and the output is like a flip of a coin and quiet unpredictable:- Sometime you win and sometimes you loose.

[appushiva]

Dear All,

We all have different reviews of the PS songs , but one thing in general , we love the pattern and raga's of Raja. The songs are significantly better than all other songs coming from Bolly or Kollywoods.

But we can see few reviews here are Pessimistic and writing as there were very good melodies available elsewhere and only raja is failing in music.

The fact is the King is giving still giving innovative ideas and pattern in flim songs. May Enthiran and Singam songs sounds better, we can appreciate them , Alas they are short liven, you can't hear now. But anyone can hear "July ganapathy", "Pithamagan" "Pahazi raja" "malli puvu " "Nannavan" etc at any time with short breaks.

I completely adhere the review of Mr.Sureshji which is optimisitic in this dying music era.....

[KV]

V_S, Raagas, Suresh, very good reviews on PS! Interesting thoughts you folks have there. :thumbsup:
Like Suresh said, had IR had been able to rope in his favorite Budapest orchestra, we would've had a full-fledged 'saavadi' at hand!

The album has been in loop for about a week now and has surely grown well on me. It does take a while to get around the synth (sure, we can go on and on singing our gripe in Synthubhairavi, what impact will it have on us or IR?), but once done, there's a lot to cherish; IR serves a sumptuous folk feast!

Regarding ASK, I too immediately went back to Maaman oru naal and 16 vayadhinile songs. But then, I thought Raaja's rendtion was quite good (acquired taste O?) and its like a statement he's making to his peers. He aint stuck in time and will come up with something that's in-sync with the current sound (whether its to our liking or not). The reason why I feel Kudhikira kudhikira is such a charmer is because it bursts of innocence, unbound happiness of a child and the special bonding with his little horse which means the world to him.

[Sureshs65]

KV,

Well said. I have for long been hearing only the inherent ideas in his music. I do agree that many times the execution may not have been upto mark but my argument has always been that if you beyond the façade you can 'see' his thoughts and to me those matter. At the same time I also appreciate the fact that the current audience is also looking for certain level of quality in execution. Here I refer to the sound recording as execution. To be honest, this department has improved a lot and I had no cribs about 'Gayam-2' or 'Paa'.

Whether 'Ponnar Shankar' songs will be a 'hit' I cannot guess. I have lost my guessing capacity nowadays :) I mean, I think some songs should not even be heard because they are copies or they are very trite and then I hear that those songs have turned out to be 'hits' !!! I though PS songs had in them the opportunity to be picturized well. raagas described it well. The songs invoke picturization in us but not sure if they have been picturized well. I wanted to ask Mumbai Ramki about it but in his review he had written that he had closed his eyes and listened to the songs. So I am not sure if he would know :D My personal feeling is that a song like 'kannai padithen' has to be on the top of the charts just to show that the listening taste of Tamilians in not too bad. But then....

[Querida]

V_S, Raagas, Suresh, very good reviews on PS! Interesting thoughts you folks have there. :thumbsup:
Like Suresh said, had IR had been able to rope in his favorite Budapest orchestra, we would've had a full-fledged 'saavadi' at hand!

The album has been in loop for about a week now and has surely grown well on me. It does take a while to get around the synth (sure, we can go on and on singing our gripe in Synthubhairavi, what impact will it have on us or IR?), but once done, there's a lot to cherish; IR serves a sumptuous folk feast!

Regarding ASK, I too immediately went back to Maaman oru naal and 16 vayadhinile songs. But then, I thought Raaja's rendtion was quite good (acquired taste O?) and its like a statement he's making to his peers. He aint stuck in time and will come up with something that's in-sync with the current sound (whether its to our liking or not). The reason why I feel Kudhikira kudhikira is such a charmer is because it bursts of innocence, unbound happiness of a child and the special bonding with his little horse which means the world to him.

:exactly:

Poovekelu is also a very sweet number...must have been a cakewalk for the Maestro
but Kudhikira Kudhikira is such a mischievous, playful one-of-a-kind song...certainly something to appreciate! I think this song would not be such a surprise for me if it had been sung in this way by Gangai Amaran or Premji Amaran...when the maestro sings "Adi aathi, adi aathi" it sounds so much like his singing from YSR's song "Ariyadha Vayasu" from "Paruthiveeran"

[Querida]

With those observations out of the way, let me try and put my thoughts about the music. Probably not going to say things which are much different from what has been said earlier by Jai, V_S, raagas and others. But then, who doesn't have the urge to put their thoughts down :) So bear with me.

Sureshs65...what an amazing review!!! I have read it without the music, and I know that I'm in for another treat when I read it in sync with the music...thank you for such a detailed and well written review! :clap:

[Sureshs65]

Querida,

Do listen to the songs. I am sure you will not be disappointed.

[V_S]

poovakeLu - Rehash of odathannil of pazhassiraja and "hey konji pesi" of "kaadhal kavidhai"
I have this doubt for long long time about the word 'Rehash'.

Rehash definition: To bring forth again in another form without significant alteration (present or use over, with no or few changes)
Another definition: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rehash

Majority of us termed this song looks similar to odathannil.

K - பூவக்கேளுபாட்டுக்கும் “மலையோரம்மயிலே”(ஒருவர்வாழும்ஆலயம்) பாட்டுக்கும்ஏதாவதுதொடர்புஇருக்கா
venkkiram - பூவைக்கேளு காத்தைக்கேளு" பாட்டின் பல்லவியை பாடிப் பார்க்கும் போது அடிக்கடி "அரும்பாகி மொட்டாகி பூவாகி" பாடலின் பல்லவி நினைவுக்கு வந்துவிடுகிறது.
Sureshs65 - states similar to Mazhamega Chelin

So, first there is no ONE original song which can be found which can be related to Poovakelu. Even if we take "odathandil" song as the ONE original suggested by majority here, just wanted to understand whether Poovakelu can be termed as 'Rehash' to Odathandil.

I too find this song similar to odathandil, but the similarity ends after the first line IMHO. May be this song is composed in the same raaga, but does that really qualify to define this as a 'Rehash'. Just curious to know?

[Sureshs65]

.. and in twitter I see people appreciating the music. Nice.

[tvsankar]

en amma solranga..
Raja ku - Kannai padaithenpaatuku - apna dil tho awara - hindi paatu inspiration aga irukuma nu...........

apna dil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRlxuYglhGA&feature=related

[Sunil_M88]

:musicsmile: Annanmar Kathai :musicsmile:

I find this song to have more similarities with “The Music Messiah” (Title piece) and not “Thiruvasagam”. This is due to the transition between genres in the former - they are depicted with the same ease in Annanmar Kathai. Although not all genres in both songs are the same, nonetheless it is the use of synth orchestration which shares alike characteristics.
Raaja – who I think is granite when it comes to teasing and manipulating the listener. I feel so immature and worthless when I hear these kinds of compositions. One second I am completely spellbound with complete shock on my face whereas just after that moment I am completely nodding along with the smile humming along. It is the lullaby part in both songs which pulls the sentimental strings out of my heart. I wonder why Raaja doesn’t just compose a whole song rather than inserting approximately one minute or less of absolute magical fantasy. Those portions enable everyone listening to escape to somewhere supernatural. The last time I felt like this was during the postlude of Acchadicha Kaasai, which I’ve already stressed.
Lastly, just when I thought the song was going to conclude, Raaja drops a folk a capella, which makes one think how much more are we going to be teased. Listening to such songs drives me crazy and just when you hear comments like Raaja has lost it from his doubtful fans, he not only proves them wrong but also increases his fan following in subtle ways.

Annanmar Kathai for me is one of the best songs of the decade and certainly the best song delivered by Raaja sir post Hey Ram!

[KV]

en amma solranga..
Raja ku - Kannai padaithenpaatuku - apna dil tho awara - hindi paatu inspiration aga irukuma nu...........

apna dil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRlxuYglhGA&feature=related

Ushaji...unga thaayar romba sharp'nga! Apna dil la aaramicha abdiye kannai pidithen lu sure aa land aagalaam! Nice find! :)

Also thanks for making my day with the BBC series link! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9UWshVmJqw&feature=related)
I've never listened to this series fully before; so much to take in and ponder over in IR's talk. When he explains the conception of the shift (graha bedham) from Rasikapriya-MMG-Rasikapriya, I was awestruck! And what does he call it? Truth...Truth behind the modulation/cheating! That it's already there in MMG and that he just 'took it' from there! (And what do we mortals do? Discuss pages after pages about modesty and stage discipline! Adengappa! :clap:)

[jaiganes]

:musicsmile: Annanmar Kathai :musicsmile:

I find this song to have more similarities with “The Music Messiah” (Title piece) and not “Thiruvasagam”. This is due to the transition between genres in the former - they are depicted with the same ease in Annanmar Kathai. Although not all genres in both songs are the same, nonetheless it is the use of synth orchestration which shares alike characteristics.
Raaja – who I think is granite when it comes to teasing and manipulating the listener. I feel so immature and worthless when I hear these kinds of compositions. One second I am completely spellbound with complete shock on my face whereas just after that moment I am completely nodding along with the smile humming along. It is the lullaby part in both songs which pulls the sentimental strings out of my heart. I wonder why Raaja doesn’t just compose a whole song rather than inserting approximately one minute or less of absolute magical fantasy. Those portions enable everyone listening to escape to somewhere supernatural. The last time I felt like this was during the postlude of Acchadicha Kaasai, which I’ve already stressed.
Lastly, just when I thought the song was going to conclude, Raaja drops a folk a capella, which makes one think how much more are we going to be teased. Listening to such songs drives me crazy and just when you hear comments like Raaja has lost it from his doubtful fans, he not only proves them wrong but also increases his fan following in subtle ways.

Annanmar Kathai for me is one of the best songs of the decade and certainly the best song delivered by Raaja sir post Hey Ram!
aptly written.
True indeed Raja doesnt stretch a genre for the whole song. He uses it for the time period it is required and moves on - coz ultimately it is a story that is being told. And this song is (if you know some thamizh) is nothing but a recounting of a legend and hence the mix and shift of genres - each phase taking the tone of the "story" it recounts. I was struck by the orchestral backing of Madhu balakrishnan's voice lamenting the fate of the new born..

[Sureshs65]

Usha,

'hai apna dil' does look like a good candidate for being the inspiration of 'kannai padithen' song.

Nice writeup Sunil. As I wrote in my review earlier, the concluding folk piece on that song is amazing. What a simple and soul stirring melody.

Jai: That's exactly the place where I was impressed with what Raja was trying to do with the synthesizer and that was also the place where I felt that had a manual orchestra played a part, it would have elevated it to even greater heights.

[appushiva]

An analogous

World cup final : Ponnar Shankar

M S Dhoni : Shri Ilayaraja

Gautam Gambhir : Shreya Ghoshal

[raj_musing]

For me a music composer is somebody who can make people look at your music,irrespective of language or nativity. You need to satisfy all strata of people alike(be it an elite class,middle class ,the poor or a street beggar; A layman or an expert!)

In other words you need not be a technical analyst to enjoy good music. Technical review of music is different and “Acceptance” is entirely a different aspect. Somebody who don’t have “any knowledge in music” also should be able to hum that song infinitely and say “wonderful” and that is where you succeed as a composer.

In the best phase of Raja’s career this was one of his strengths. I could see even street beggars singing some of his songs. To site an example:-“Thooliyile adavantha”
For me that “mass appeal” is something that should come naturally without any promotions and I find that missing in some of his recent compositions(especially in Tamil) and hence his “so called hits “ are mostly confined to forums like TFMPage or some other threads.

This is strictly my opinion and I do not wish to annoy or agitate anyone in this forum.

I can only wish that ASK or PS becomes accepted by the public. Let’s wait and watch.

[kiru]

Great reviews and insights everyone. I especially like Suresh's review (getting somethings out of the way first style :-) ) . Re: synth - I feel, especially in the kannai padithEn song.. it is the timing that is probably bothering you all. Atleast that is what bothers me.. it is too perfect ..completely programmed loop. The natural playing of a drum is not there.. even though it is a drum kit, albeit electronic. I feel thedi vandha devathaiyE is the most original and fresh and flowing. great effort to make the northie singers sing it in a folkish way. IR has adopted Shreya and projecting her all the way. Whether we like the songs or not... it is clear sign .. that there is no sign of the fountain of the music drying up anytime .. never.. the competing young fellows .. might sound cool ..stylish .. even successful commercially .. but in their hearts know the shadow of the giant is still over them.

(Re: Synths.. I have given up :-) either the synths are going up in quality and sound like real instruments and/or IR is totally bent on using the drum kit for everything now. Even the muslim song in pazhassi raja had a drum kit in it, I think. Anyways, as Suresh mentioned, I just convince myself it is all the same thing but just sound a little different :-) ).

[raagas]

Fantastic review Suresh! I too felt that Kanni Padithen had some hamsadhwani feel somewhere but then it is not pure! I think it is a super amalgamation. The song being an inspiration from "Hai apna dil" is an interesting perspective although we dont know if it is indeed that song or any other song. No matter how much I am enjoying that song, there is that tinge of dissatisfaction (despite me giving it a 10/5) about one aspect - the synth violin ensemble. The violins have multiple layers and all the layers are from synthesizer only. Pch! If only............

But overall, a nice album. Still, I am waiting for another classical oriented album. Been over 2 years since Uliyin Osai came.

[balaji]

Raagas wrote: But overall, a nice album. Still, I am waiting for another classical oriented album. Been over 2 years since Uliyin Osai came.

==> May be the Telugu film "Sri Ramarajyam?"

[V_S]

CD Cover says Kunal Kanchanwalai :D
http://www.grantimage.com/show.php/28071_ponnar-shankar-00-back.jpg.html
Even the first song Kodi Kotti Koduthalum song is sung by Satyan Mahalingam with Haricharan, not Chinmayee. It's sad the actual singer is not seen on the cards.

[jmahesh]

Annanmar kathai
I am another supporter of this song like sunil.I do not have any indepth knwoledge of music but still even the first time i heard this song i was just completely drawn into it. Madhu balakrishnan's voice suits the song very well and his pronounciation is very good.The way he alters the mood and tone in his voice from a story telling koothu kattara person to kuri sollum pusari and then the pathos at the babies fate , and as jaiganes said the music that flows along during these lines is excellent and it brought tears to my eyes.
The chorus portions about ' thamarai nachi ' her marriage 'kattina thaimamana thaan kattuven' ( i am no supporter of marrying thaimamans),'thamarai nachikku thanga valaikaapu' are excellent.I think its probably super singer Anitha who is part of this chorus.
Malarvillile reminded me of 'Poongatre theendathe' from kungumachimizh.

[jaiganes]

For me a music composer is somebody who can make people look at your music,irrespective of language or nativity. You need to satisfy all strata of people alike(be it an elite class,middle class ,the poor or a street beggar; A layman or an expert!)

In other words you need not be a technical analyst to enjoy good music. Technical review of music is different and “Acceptance” is entirely a different aspect. Somebody who don’t have “any knowledge in music” also should be able to hum that song infinitely and say “wonderful” and that is where you succeed as a composer.

In the best phase of Raja’s career this was one of his strengths. I could see even street beggars singing some of his songs. To site an example:-“Thooliyile adavantha”
For me that “mass appeal” is something that should come naturally without any promotions and I find that missing in some of his recent compositions(especially in Tamil) and hence his “so called hits “ are mostly confined to forums like TFMPage or some other threads.

This is strictly my opinion and I do not wish to annoy or agitate anyone in this forum.

I can only wish that ASK or PS becomes accepted by the public. Let’s wait and watch.
True to an extent. Those days we had one "oliyum Oliyum" programme which every single person in Thamizh naadu tuned to. nowadays, that kind of concentrated focus is not there. The reach of the song is highly dependent on radio stations beaming out the songs at regular intervals . If that does not happen (RJs listen and say what the heck some kind of "dance beat" less semi classical? let me push it to afternoon 2 O clock slot?) then songs might never be heard by beggars to go hummin.

[Sureshs65]

RM,

While I understand what you are saying, the fact is that everyone singing a song is one criteria. I know of so many Hindi songs of 80s which lot of people were singing but no one sings nor listens to them any more :) But I do agree that Raja's reach has reduced but so has the reach of most of the MDs. They work only in urban centres most of the time. In the rural centre it is still MSV and Raja most of the time. Infact the type of songs which reach a larger audience has reduced a lot. The last song which I know made such an impact was probably James Vasanthan's "kangal irandal". Sung by every age group and every income group :) All the new beat / hip ones are heard and sung by the urban youth and that is where the market is for the music companies. It is not that these companies want everyone singing it. They just want every cell phone ringing it. That is where the money is. So the main job of the MDs nowadays is to create 'ring tone' worthy catchy pallavi. The charanam, flow of the melody, innovation etc be damned.

[app_engine]

Also, reach of songs from flop movies seems to be a thing of the distant past.

Decent songs by any composer, not necessarily IR, that had the misfortune of being in flops - regardless of the movie's budget etc - had some air time during my youth - people too opted to "record" or get the record / cassette. I don't think hubbers who visit this thread need samples as proof, as they are old enough :wink:

Nowadays, for flop movies, unless the album is by ARR or otherwise hyped to abnormal levels, the possibility of it getting heard by most public is remote. Music addicts probably search for them and comment in internet etc but general public hardly cares it appears.

That's a definite negative thanks to sat channels and possibly FM stations.

(For that matter, even hit songs aren't sought after with craze for CDs -like in early 90's- as most CD players are only for decorative purposes in many homes I'm told...)

[venkkiram]

----------------

[raj_musing]

Gents,

While a "concentrated focus" is not there we have a widespread media now and the good songs should reach masses more quickly and effortlessly without any hassles isn't it?
With reality shows flashing on every channels,the reachability shoudn't be a big issue and that's what I feel.Even finding a new singer for movies is not big challenge anymore,because of these programs.
Iam not too sure about what Suresh said with respect to songs being composed only for cellphone ringtones or caller tunes :) :)Is it industry specific?

What surprises me is his innovation and energy in other languages.. .Sometimes a good theme/subject/situation could inspire him to think differently and produce
that magic and why not?? As I pointed out earlier he never misses with some directors.

[Devaraagam]

It is not that these companies want everyone singing it. They just want every cell phone ringing it.

Suresh, 100% true statement. nowadays arts are business because corporate culture and thinking ROI not as Art

[raagas]

Coming to 'Ponnar Shankar', what Raja seems to be trying here is to give the symphonic feel using only the synthesizer. I am sure there are lot of software / plug ins or whatever they are called available in the market but Raja wants to leave his own stamp behind. This is very evident in the 'annanmaar' song. The synthesizer is used to try and create the feel of a symphonic orchestra and truthfully that shows. In the other songs as well, when there is a constant accompanient in the background, providing for the harmony, you can 'hear' the synthesizer. As kiru used to constantly say, Raja wants to recreate his brand of music using the synthesizer. In other words, Raja is trying for a replacement of a manual orchestra using the synthesizer. He doesn't want to compromise on his ideas but maybe due to the financial constraints of the producers has to compromise on using the synthesizer.



Just a thought:

I wonder why would raaja opt for synthesizer instead of real violins? It could be deliberate or compulsion. My reason fails to buy 'financial constraints' because this is a project that had lot of work on costumes/scale/sets etc. It might not be the most expensive film ever but it is not a low budget film either (i heard that the budget is inversely proportional to the amount of costumes worn by female leads :-)). I cannot buy the reason that the producer didnt have money to pay 25 violinists. And lets keep the Budapest Philharmonic out of the scope, for a moment - budegtary constraints can be understandable here. Secondly, it is not that Chennai has a dearth of violinists. I know for sure that there are a number of violinists (adept in both western classical & indian classical - if needed) who would be ready to give their arm to play for raaja. And the money that the producer pays even for the sound engineer/mixing engineer is more than what he would pay to violinists. Ponnar Shankar has good polished sound and I dont think the producer compromised on anything that would have resulted in compulsion for raaja.
I think that the synth usage, even for instruments such as violins is deliberate. This begets the question - Why Raaja, of all, being an authority in acoustic music practice (while constantly criticizing about excessive synthesizer usage in film music), himself does this?

[Sureshs65]

RM,

It is indeed true that the music companies make more money out of ring tones and caller tunes than from the actual sales of CD. From what I read once in a web site (maybe it was Cable Shankar website, not sure), the amount paid to the top MDs like Rahman are not recoverable by just the CD sales. It is an overall thing where they try and deliver the content in various forms. Downloads, ring tones, caller tunes etc. My personal feeling is that this aspect has now been perfected in Hindi, Tamil and Telugu film industry.

Anyway, we seem to be going off topic in this thread. This discussion requires a generic thread and is not just limited to Raja but to the general music industry.

About Raja delivering when the stakes are high, I have no doubt. In this regard I am of the staunch opinion that Raja has no equals in Indian Film Industry. His music has never been a let down when the budgets were high and the stakes were high. 'Thalapathi', 'Kala Paani', 'Guru', 'Tiruvasagam', 'Pazhassi Raja' come to mind.

[raj_musing]

Just a thought:

II think that the synth usage, even for instruments such as violins is deliberate. This begets the question - Why Raaja, of all, being an authority in acoustic music practice (while constantly criticizing about excessive synthesizer usage in film music), himself does this?

My thoughts as well.

[raj_musing]

Suresh,

Yes ,we will take this discussion off now.

Thanks
R

[V_S]

Sorry to digress, but again this is only about IR not anything about trend.

We never knew what was the discussion inside the Prasad studios and why IR opted for synth based orchestration, but we can only guess. If we remember, the same IR demanded MTV and Hariharan to bring in symphony orchestra for Pazhassi Raja, again same thing happened for even the smaller budget film Azhagarsamiyin Kuthirai even though initially they denied, because of the cost. Definitely for PS also he would have done that.
Again another aspect is, this film came to IR only at the later stage unlike other films. Initially only ARR signed up this project. Due to some unknown reasons (may be money factor, we don't know) this was given to IR. So even not considering the money factor apart, I believe it is with the time factor. IR had to train the musicians for the songs and orchestration may be within a short period of time. Again all these are wild guesses, but one thing I certainly believe that he opted for synth rather than live orchestra for a definite reason, which we don't know. Just imagining, if all these songs and scores are done within a short period time, is itself an amazing contribution, irrespective of whichever method it was done. The quality speaks!

[jaiganes]

In Raaja's recent albums, I dont miss the violins that much (In the BGM side he makes sure that the cellos and violins come to the party).
I miss the awesome trumpets and saxophones. Nowadays, he seems to use them strictly according to the template (i.e., only for jazz and band type songs as against to using it anywhere, every where, wherever possible).
Another musical instrument I used to miss these days was the veena and thank raaja, he used it in PS in Malarvillil and Kannai pidithen. revisiting Malar villil every day atleast twice to enjoy the sweetness of those segments..

[V_S]

revisiting Malar villil every day atleast twice to enjoy the sweetness of those segments..
Malar villile is my most favorite (but just after bavani varugiraa) even compared to Kannai padithen. These three songs are in infinite loop. Heavenly melodies!

[thumburu]

Though initially , names like Nithyashree , Sudha R fuelled my "nappaasai" for something like "ULiyin Oasai", I came to terms with Ponnar Shankar after reading your great reviews here . Atlast got hold of PonnarShankar songs from samshhits and listened a couple of times. My tempered expectation taught me to anticipate an album like Jaganmohini and that way, Ponnarshankar is "paisa vasool" for me. My review for first 3 songs in the album goes like :
Kodi kotti - Skipworthy "prachaara paattu" probably added at the last moment due to pressure from "kazhagam" for serving election purpose.
annanmaar kadhai - Though Raja offers nothing fresh by way of tune in "annanmaar kadhai" [It is commonly used "saami dhinthaka thom aiyappa dhinthakathom" type],
the lush ambience music, particularly the women chorus with that drawl when they slow down abruptly during "thamarai naachikku thanga vaLaikaappu"
and as Suresh observed, the women chorus also reminding us of "muthu natraamam" from Thiruvasagam -make this song pass the muster.
bhavani varugira - is my pick from PonnarShankar.
This tribal folk with modern synth backing is the perfect commercial masala recipe that we have
been waiting from Raja to dish out. The mild scale shift ushered by a chord change in the latter part of the opening chorus
parts that lead to the pallavi gives me a great high. Simple, hummable and foot tappinng tune . I see my good, young Raja that I know through this song.
I liked 3 songs of Jaganmohini and this is on the lines of my most favorite
"ponmani theril". Hence I hoist the flag "Bhavani varugira" from PonnarShankar. Rest in my next.

[V_S]

bhavani varugira - is my pick from PonnarShankar.
This tribal folk with modern synth backing is the perfect commercial masala recipe that we have
been waiting from Raja to dish out. The mild scale shift ushered by a chord change in the latter part of the opening chorus
parts that lead to the pallavi gives me a great high. Simple, hummable and foot tappinng tune . I see my good, young Raja that I know through this song.
I liked 3 songs of Jaganmohini and this is on the lines of my most favorite
"ponmani theril". Hence I hoist the flag "Bhavani varugira" from PonnarShankar. Rest in my next.
Wow! I thought I am alone to like and put bavani varugiraa at the top in PS. Good to see thumburu also lists as her most favorite. This song is totally new, fresh and most of all young as you pointed out. :thumbsup:

[app_engine]

Scanned through the samples of 'ponnar-shankar'.

Instantly catchy!

I don't care for 'period' business or 'whether apt instruments' biz anymore, even if I did at any point of time in the hub, now gone back to the original days of IR when he had all kinds of WCM / Shenoy kind of non-native instruments for TN folk, so how does it matter if he has synth for sariththirappadam.

Another thing, who complained when IR used synth for 'kodiyilE malligappoo'? :confused: So, if he has sufficient ingradients to please and limited ingradients that irritate, who cares if synth or natural gadgets?

Should listen more to pick favourites :-)

[irir123]

Another thing, who complained when IR used synth for 'kodiyilE malligappoo'? :confused: So, if he has sufficient ingradients to please and limited ingradients that irritate, who cares if synth or natural gadgets?

Should listen more to pick favourites :-)

its like comparing apples to oranges!

'kodiyile malligappoo' might have had synth usage, but, as a whole, it does not take away the organic feel from the song!

similar is the case with say, 'unna vida' from virumandi, or 'karugu mani' from azhagar malai both of which must have used synth keyboard etc, but the organic rustic feel is intact!

it is when the synth effect overshadows the 'soul' part of a composition, it irritates

[app_engine]

irir123,
I think me too telling the same, in different words :-)

[V_S]

-deleted wrong thread-

[jmahesh]

request to moderator
i think its high time a new thread is started , we are in 2011 ,it is as if we are still discussing 2009 songs. what do you all think?

[Sureshs65]

thumburu,

'bhavani varugira' is one of the four melodious songs. So you have touched the first one. Check the others as well. I am sure if you liked 'Jaganmohini' songs you will like 'malarvillile' song as well.

[app_engine]

Some more explanation on the 'period-should-not-have-synth' myth...

#1 One can definitely question Raja on the use of "loop" / "samples" etc on the basis of his "pop corn" "not a composer" kind of statements:-) Can even tell that it's self-contradiction / hypocrisy etc

#2 One can also dismiss use of certain gadgets as "I didn't like it, it irritates me a like Rajaraja Chozhan wearing a ray-ban glass or driving a Mustang"

# -1 OTOH, none can say "hey, this is for BC 1st century, how can there be drum pad / bass guitar". By the same token, they should dismiss the bass guitar / violin score for 'manjakkuLichchu aLLi mudichchu'

That's all your honor :-)

[raagas]

Some more explanation on the 'period-should-not-have-synth' myth...

#1 One can definitely question Raja on the use of "loop" / "samples" etc on the basis of his "pop corn" "not a composer" kind of statements:-) Can even tell that it's self-contradiction / hypocrisy etc


Ahem! This has been my point since long time.... but then... :-|

anyway, lets enjoy the album and lets await the next one too - Happi!

[V_S]

One best thing about the whole PS soundtrack is the chorus section is back with a bang. Almost in every song, we can see chorus backing up so beautifully, sometimes they even come to the front, which makes this soundtrack very rich. But again as Sunil pointed, there are some teasing moments. In Annanmar kathai, the starting haunting chorus definitely is a teaser. It is no way related to the song coming up, but for first few seconds it comes and go, but gives a lasting impression. I had a feeling that why it suddenly stopped? It was so beautiful!

On another note, In 'Thedi vantha' song, Kunal's tamizh diction was surprsingly very good compared to udits and sukhwinders. Only his voice shows he is a northie, but he did this song amazingly well. Is this his first tamizh song? If so, tremendous performance. :clap:

[raagas]

I am having great time with Ponnar Shankar songs. Bavani Varugira, Kannai Padithen, Malar Villilae are most listened songs for me. Thedi Vantha comes next and Annamar Kathai comes last (although it is an out and out IR folk song).

[KV]

Count me in folks! Incessant Ponnar Shankar-ing today! Bhavani, Annamaar and Malarvillile top my list. The two romantic duets come in next (the 1st song is non-existant for me). The length of the songs is another welcome change in this album.

My mind can now automatically sound-engineer and fade-out the out-of-place synth, ganjaphlow, madhu balakrishnan, stock loops, etc, and bring to the fore, dheivakuralazhagi Shreya and those rocking native percussions. Most of us get so sucked into the sythbharavi gloom that we tend to overlook the power-packed thavil, urumi, thappu,etc in the songs.

Shreya, undoubtedly, is the crown jewel of the package. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful singing and hassle-free job in the pronunciation front as well (yuvan & co, you guys can only hang your heads in shame I guess? Other non-thamizh imports, here’s your role model!).

Hendrix, had he heard this girl, would’ve probably made a ‘folksy lady’ for her!

[Sureshs65]

KV,

Well said and that has been my stand as well. The ears filter out the synth and only take in the idea!!! And the ideas are superb. And of course, Shreya is the queen of this album no doubt. Wonderful voice and a nice diction.

V_S: Yes the chorus is back but it was present in songs of 'Jaganmohini' as well.

[Sureshs65]

While it is indeed synth, just observe the accompaniment during the last two lines of the charanam of 'kannai padithen'. Whatay louly, as P_R would say. Similarly I have no complaints on the synth violins in the interlude. Wonderful Hamsadhwani. The interludes in this song are class, synth or no synth.

[Sureshs65]

Another trend which I am watching in Raja is taking some old Hindi melody and giving it a totally different shape. Can't figure out which is the original melody but you can clearly hear the old world charm in them. Examples I can think of are: 'swapnangal' (Bhagyadevatha), 'yaaro paadunnu doori' (Katha Thudarunnu), 'poovakaelu' (ASK) and 'kannai padithen' (Ponnar Shankar). I love each of these melodies. Hope the trend continues :)

[jaiganes]

Ahem! This has been my point since long time.... but then... :-|

anyway, lets enjoy the album and lets await the next one too - Happi!
Ridiculous accusation. If you care to see Raaja's "Making of Thiruvaasagam" episodes, he clearly explains that loops are huge "time and money savers" for today's music production.
He explains that "though loop usage" is inevitable, music composers should use their imagination to "hide it" and amalgamate it well in their creations. He has never said "NO LOOPS" at all. He lashes out only on "ONLY LOOPS" music composers - whom according to him are just pretenders competing with the genuine composers in the market today, standing on the notes composed by some one else. He reiterates this in the BBC interview as well.
The loops used in PS are minimal and are hidden away well .

[KV]

Suresh, yes, the violins and flute interplay in kannai padithen interludes is very nice. With Padithurai and Happi round the corner, some quality melodic stuff awaits us I imagine.

Unbelievable and unlikely as it may sound, we seem to be seeing a formation of an impressive combo in the form of IR and MuKa! (some might associate Thiagarajan with Ponnar, but I think MuKa ranks much higher in the mariyadhai/gauravam prospects of a project).

Regardless of the quality of the film, IR appears to be inspired enough to give some very good music.
Uliyin Osai was a stellar album; heavy-weight category classical; a melodic, carnatic feast!
Ponnar Shankar, an ingenious amalgamation of high-voltage folk, WCM and melody; a contrasting beast!

I’m already looking forward to this combo’s next!
If only one suitcase, just a tiny one from the seemingly Himalayan heap, can make it to the project, the Budapest contingent can get some buvva and we folks, fodder for a lifetime!

[app_engine]

KV,
From what I read in the media, Thiagarajan was an official in the Polydor (audio) firm, known to be far superior to the audio firms TFM used during initial days of IR, like inreco / HMV etc. The first-ever TF album by Polydor was alaigal Oyvathillai (Thiagarajan was possibly given back the favor by being chosen to act as villain).

That, seems to be quite a long time association between IR & him. (Recall the fantastic work IR did for malayoor mambattian too).

OTOH, IR's relationship with mu-kA seems to be so-so only (e.g. semmozhi mAnAdu anthem was by ARR, none of DMK big budgets had IR, even the recent mu-kA written iLaingan was not IR).

In general, IR seems to be not aligned closely with political groups, though he had worked on a few mu-kA scripts. That way he did do a Jaya TV concert, his most famous by far. (Though there was this IR-GV row w.r.t. JJ function and some court draggings related to IR / GA properties and Sasikala goondaism.). Then there were Congress minister / Vaiko during TbI launch.

So, ponnar-shankar "extract credit" should be given to Thiagarajan, IMO.

[V_S]

I cannot listen to 'Thedi Vantha Devathai' too often just because of Shreya's singing. I get lost most of the time. When her voice breaks when she sings the lines, especially the underlined words, my heart breaks too!
un tholil saanju kattikitten parai mela ottikitten
naan aalillaatha neram paarthu kattikitten
vayasu pulla nee enda theeya vechcha
en manasukkula theriyaama kaiyya vecha
kannathai nee kanavil vanthu kadichchu vachcha kalavaniya

Beautiful when she extends and really asks a question with "Nee Enda"
oorukkelam neethane kaaval thanthe, enakku mattum Nee enda kaadhal thanthe

Is this the first song she sings in this mood? This song is totally contrasting compared to her other three songs. Also I really don't know if she really knows the meaning when she sings, I assume she will know about the overall mood of the song, not every word and line. But the way she emotes every word, I feel she is not very far from SJ. Also added to that, definitely her beautiful voice (compared to SJ) adds to the mood so easily. Amazing how she manages various kind of moods in each and every song in every language all round India, as she is the most sought after singer. Even if we take SJ, she is popular down south mainly, similarly Lata/Asha were popular in north mainly, eventhough they have sung songs outside their region (still they were not quite good in diction), but very less. Shreya in that sense is becoming versatile! Only concern is she should get good compositions to sing like SJ or Lata!

I know it's very early, but eventhough still a long way to go, I certainly feel A legend in the making!

[AravindMano]

V_S, 'majaa majaa' from 'Sillunu Oru Kadhal' is another 'mood' song, by Shreya Ghoshal. Nice song and nicely sung too.

[V_S]

Thanks Aravind:). Just now listened to this song, brilliant song by ARR and great singing by Shreya as usual!

[raagas]

Ridiculous accusation. If you care to see Raaja's "Making of Thiruvaasagam" episodes, he clearly explains that loops are huge "time and money savers" for today's music production.
He explains that "though loop usage" is inevitable, music composers should use their imagination to "hide it" and amalgamate it well in their creations. He has never said "NO LOOPS" at all. He lashes out only on "ONLY LOOPS" music composers - whom according to him are just pretenders competing with the genuine composers in the market today, standing on the notes composed by some one else. He reiterates this in the BBC interview as well.
The loops used in PS are minimal and are hidden away well .

Jaiganes,

Fair enough. Let me put forth my thoughts outside the context of Ponnar Shankar because it is generic. I cant recall IR calling loops as time & money savers, but i remember one video on youtube where IR demonstrated a loop rhythm generated by a synthesizer and questioned or ranted about how this can be called as composer's creation. I am unable to locate the exact video that I saw originally but I found a video in which this interview is being captured (on tv channel): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg8vJG02LS4 Please note that I never questioned his claim or opinion. He is right and I am with him till there. I cannot understand tamil, but from whatever little I understand I think IR is expressing his displeasure over the usage of preset loops, by modern generation composers.

Now, coming to ONLY LOOPS argument. From what I understand, you mean that IR wants composers to work on the loops creatively and experiment in creating new loops, instead of using 'off the shelf' loops that are available for few US$. Right? Or is IR OK with "off the shelf usage" too? If he is ok with it, then please skip all the thoughts I am writing below. because if he is OK with preset loops, then probably he is complaining about the "melody" and that is a different sphere altogether. But the video above seems to be about preset loops. And my thoughts are totally about his complaints about loops and usage.

Now, I have listened to a handful of Ilaiyaraaja songs (that came in the period 1998-2004) in which "off the shelf" loops are used directly, without any modifications. I cant recall each and every song but I remember me springing out of my office chair, while listening to some song (during my work hours) that I never heard before. I remember exclaiming myself - "But this loop is exactly same as the one in that song by that composer X". A very quick example I can give is "Sutraadha Bhoomi" from Nilave Mugam Kattu - Particularly the charanams. It is a classic example I think. Fantastic song no doubt and I enjoy it myself. and i dont bother about the loop, qualitatively. But objectively, I didnt expect IR to use a preset (& very famous) loop directly. Next time, I will remember to post my similar findings here on the hub, when I listen to something like that but trust me there are atleast 8-9 songs that spooked me totally. So... i often continue to wonder - why succumb to loops? and why complain?

About loops in general: There are a billion loops out there in the market. And if few hundreds of them are already used (by various composers), we are familiar with them. But there are lot of loops unused that every composer is using today. So, a new loop doesnt necessarily mean that it is a creatively-reworked one. It also doesnt mean that it is not a creatively reworked one. It is just that we have no way of knowing if the loops are preset or customised (by composer). All we music buffs can know is just that if something is a loop or not. and with the progress of technology these days, I am afraid we cannot even know that. This is exactly the reason why I have come to terms with the usage of loops - because it has been in practice since 80s (in western pop.. and indian film music embraced it since 90s) and the lines between loops and acoustic sounds & customised synth sounds are blurring day by day.

And lastly, "hidden away well" is a subjective point. for we laymen, it is hidden because we are not exposed to that loop before and for another small time composer who has access to a synth bank with that loop, it could be familiar. The only way IR can avoid all this is by using the real instruments in organic way (with minute human errors being audible or generating the feel that we get when we are in a live concert of say, Tabla for example). But thats not the order of the day. Fair enough. Use loops... like other composers do. But once using - whats the point in "fastfood" talk?

I didnt/dont intend to offend anyone's views. Just put my thoughts/observations - which do not come in the way of my respect for Raaja or his work (despite the issues I have with him).

[raagas]

I completely agree with suresh and others here - PS belongs to Shreya Ghoshal, after Ilaiyaraaja.

And this is the first time I am listening to a kunal Gunjawala song so many times in a day. I would rate Thedi Vantha higher than that erotic mood song in JaganMohini (no, it is not because of my bias towards Shreya, although i dont rule it out totally ;-)). The guitars that come in the background during the lead lines (when she sings vekkapatta vekkapatta vekkapattaaaa) portions - KILLER. IR cant get more classically contemporary than this. Period!

[raagas]

Iniya Tamizh Putthandu Nal Vazhthukkal…(phew! i hope i got it right) to all the tamil based fans here..

[SVN]

Singer Chitra, who is in Dubai for an ARR-themed concert has tragically lost her only daughter Nandana aged 8. The little one apparently fell into the swimming pool of the villa that the family was staying at.

May The Almighty give Chitra and her family the strength and resolve to bear this irreparable loss!

[raj_musing]

Singer Chitra, who is in Dubai for an ARR-themed concert has tragically lost her only daughter Nandana aged 8. The little one apparently fell into the swimming pool of the villa that the family was staying at.

May The Almighty give Chitra and her family the strength and resolve to bear this irreparable loss!

Oh God!I read that news and got a shock!!! How can fate be so cruel??She had to wait for 15 yrs to get a daughter....May god give her strength to bear this!

[KV]

Iniya Tamizh Putthandu Nal Vazhthukkal…(phew! i hope i got it right) to all the tamil based fans here..

Chaala thanksu Raagas gaarandi! (don’t worry, you nailed it right!)

Hmm, I do agree with most of what you’ve said on this ‘loopy’ topic (which as though being loyal to the name, keeps looping back, resurfacing every now and then, doesn’t it?)

From what I understand, one of the reasons for this debate to persist here (doesn’t seem to happen in any of the other MD/music threads) is, I think, Raaja not adhering to the adage ‘practice what you preach’. He would lash out at the current music scene, spew his usual popcorn, fastfood accusations, but then go on to take a bit of it, himself. From the way I see it, this could be resulting from him being, in a state, what can be called as, ‘stuck in the middle’. Bear with me while I try and explain.

Phase 1:
Here is a guy who has worked for a good portion of his formative years (as assistant and instrumentalist) with ‘classic’ music directors – yesteryear masters, those who swore by the melodic content in any composition, whose songs took birth on the harmonium, then took form and came to life in live recording sessions, those who would turn to classical music (WCM/ICM) to try out different rhythm patters and ragams when in need of sounding new, and those who, when looking for ideas, sourced their inspiration (genuine cue-taking to blatant lifting) from works of others. Electronic keyboards/synthesizers did have a small role in the picture, but that was just limited to providing new ‘tones’ (not new ‘tunes’!). That’s as much ‘technically advanced’ as one could be then! There was just no substitute for talent and ability. You either got it right, or screwed up the scene. Nothing better to hone one’s skills than the compulsion to match set standards aint it!
Now, it shouldn’t be too difficult to surmise the impact of such an environment on an enthusiastic, aspiring composer in IR.

Phase 2:
The post-gurukulam phase. The guy, after taking in all the gyan that was on offer, his skills sharp as a razor edge, breaks into the scene with a bang. He is still mostly ‘old-school’ in the basics, too much of deviance in this, would be like disrespecting his gurus whom he holds in very high esteem. At the same time, he houses this demon of a talent within himself that wants to break all barriers and perceptions of music, and also an enthusiastic youngster who wants to embrace the ‘new’ to see if it could ‘enhance’ what there is currently. Hence he introduces fresh WCM/folk musical ingredients, new recording techniques, new instruments, equipments and all that jazz! Again, the basics don’t change, all these new aspects are built around the ‘old school core’.
‘New’ sounds (from poly-rhythm pads, synthesizers and other gizmos) there maybe, yet, every note (well, almost) is still his brain-child, something that he has conceived and brought out. Electronic music is only in its nascent stage, too little options in the offering and expensive too! Musical ideas need to be ‘created’, nothing comes free or easy. And you still need skilled guys playing the instruments.

Phase 3:
Its 90s and electronic music is spreading rapidly the world over. Pop music takes centre stage (and tastes first blood in the death of rock/metal).
You cant leave India far behind can you? Enter ARR. The whiz-kid rides the new wave and paves the way for its entry into Thamizh and Indian filim music. There is a bigger out-burst of newer styles and sounds (whoever ever heard the shrill of bottles breaking in a Thamizh song before that!).
Now, one significant difference I see here is that the new kid openly challenges the ‘old-school’ and plays around with the very basics (something that IR was quite cautious in retaining).
Melody is there, but the overall melodic content comes down a bit. There is an inflow of fresh instruments and skilled instrumentalists but fast, electronic-beat driven, pop music is slowly emerging the order of the day.
Maybe, somewhere inside, IR felt his faith in the old-school principles almost being ridiculed. (it’s this factor according to me, that could’ve hurt IR a bit, then, rather than the popularly alleged jealousy over ARR's rise).
Musically, IR still has his act and kit mostly intact, predominantly live sounds, poly rhythms, etc and a small portion of the raging pop sounds too.

Phase 4
Through the 90s and post 2000, advancement in ‘computers in music’ sees electronic music grow in leaps and bounds. Internet, softwares, loops, e-studios, etc are all now household names.
Every kid wants to use his computer and internet to become the next biggest thing, his gig to get to the I’ve-got-10000-hits-in-10mins-on-youtube and 124000-likes-on-facebook stardom.
You no longer need razor-sharp skills when you have cutting edge technology. You don’t need to stress your brain cells for musical ideas, relatively miniscule pressure on your laptop keyboard will fetch you a million ideas.
Talent, you ask? Isn’t my tone groovy enough?
Expertise? Didn’t you read the article on all-in-all home-studios in the latest PC-chip edition?
I want to sing but I can only croak like a frog. Volla! we’ve got a tuning plug!
South-Antarctican native strings? Sam#19882. Sad Violin solo? Sam#1222. Electric guitar lead with distortion? Sam#666.
Music in this phase is more about packaged presentation and less about musical creativity.

Now this is the phase where all of IR’s beliefs and principles seem as extinct as the dodo.
But if there’s one person who has been actively involved in Indian film music from Phase1 through Phase4, it’s got to be IR. He is like a bridge between the classic and the new-age/electronic era, where his foundations happen to be strongly built in the former. His mind still seems to be craving for this even as he operates today. Well then, why does he have to embrace all this new-age tools? This, I think, we cannot have a certain answer. It could be just be the plain comfort that comes as a bonus from this lazy approach. Or like he says, maybe it’s the quality and availability of instrumentalists (the lack of) that makes him opt for it. Yeah, we can point out several talents around, but we don’t really know what he’s looking for.
And this is my point, as to why he does not practice what he preaches in this regard.
When you’ve seen the film music world around you go through such a sea change (and maybe felt that you haven’t been able to do much to turn the tide), contradictions and ironies and sarcasms are bound to catch up on your tongue, sooner or later.

At the end of it all, it is only admiration, of the highest level, that I have for him, for his ability to keep his creative energy flowing through all this turbulence.

Back to Ponnar Shankar.

[V_S]

KV,
One of the best post in hub in recent times.:clap: :clap: Wonderful read.
Now from just about loops, you have treaded a big path in IR's music history, very good.
I agree word by word and IR is definitely 'stuck in the middle'. You have to express your frustrations on current trend, technologies, composers, but at the same time you need to compete with the current trend, you cannnot escape. What a difficult task!. I know every composer would have experienced such scenario, but for Ilaiyaraaja the difference he is seeing that too within 20 years is larger than the sea.
I don't blame him for such contradictory talks. If anyone other composer than IR is in such scenaraio, he would have peacefully retired by this time, quoting the current trend. Still he has energy, passion and belief, just like the same way he used to embrace both our indian and western classical form of music in his compositions, he is coping with the current trend without compromising on the roots he had developed over these years.

If he does not oblige to the current technologies, he would be discarded as outdated composer, on the other hand if he obliges there are still complaints that he has to go back to his old school, as this is not is forte, even if it is good. Just can't imagine how he got in the middle. Only I can feel sorry for him.

But one thing is for sure, whatever changes are happening is definitely not good for indian music, only good for music directors, producers who just see money out of it (IMHO).

[app_engine]

Very sad day today to know about Chithra's loss :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:

[app_engine]

Fantastic post, KV!

Raja has coped with all kinds of professional hazards and can be given the championship in endurance!
(It's not a big deal to be in the business for 30-40 years when the changes are not drastic. OTOH, any top techie artist of 80's to be in the reckoning after globalization is definitely a test of endurance)

Obviously, unlike his top years when he set the trend, post 1997 he had been mostly a (reluctant) follower of the trend set by others. (Was in state-of-shock between 93&97 when one after other partners kept leaving him).

TbI was an exception but it was like an art movie (means not mainstream) and not affecting / affected by any trend.