Maestro Ilaiyaraja New Albums 2011 - Hello Jaihind / Sri Rama Rajyam

[Shankar]

1) The first Asian to score a SYMPHONY

Just a small nitpick:
The whole controversy behind it (the objections from certain sections and Raaja's subsequent silence) was that it did not conform to the grammar of symphony

I think your talking about TIS. The symphony I am talking about nobody has heard it except a select few with the exceptions of RPO, Sir John Scott and the man who did the symphony himself :lol2:. And knowing thalaivar well, he never talks back amazingly unless provoked to that extent.

And Mr Genuine Fan, to you it is raja's loss, but to him it is not a loss as he is not even interested in the first place. Business has never bothered him one bit and he only eats and breathes music.

Havent you see the way he speaks that he does not even bother about films that much. In the same youtube link there is a snapshot where he says he will usually finish films in 30 minutes. That is how "interested" he is. I think the loss is more from fans like you as you guys believe he exists within a certain spectrum and his tunes only reflect at that point. I dunt think you guys ever understood his style of music in the first place. Just fans by chance thats all.

>>>>>
I dunt think you guys ever understood his style of music in the first place. Just fans by chance thats all
<<<<<

saringa baaas....konjam Raja-Oda style ai eppadi purinjukkaradhu epdi nu sollikuduththA, dhanyanAvEn.

Dude, I can't be a fanatic who will take everything Raja gives, like you are. Give me an Adhi Ushus, Paa...and edhaya baagilu, I will take it. chumma pOra vara pAttellAm super..super nu sollittu ungaLa mAdhiri alaya mudiyAdhu ennAla...

when you talk good things about a song, please substantiate technically how the song is good (suresh/Raagas can help you there). I will respect your opinion then.

[tvsankar]

Dear Shankar,
Neenga mathavangalai kaekareenga..

Naan Thalai idaradhu Manners ilai. Analum ,
Help pannalam nu nenaikaren...

Ungaluku endha paatu pidikalai... Adha sollunga....

epadi kaekaradhu nu solren........

[appushiva]

Appadi podunga Arivaala-- Usha

The songs are made for mood and we usually listen to situations. The romantic songs are always for all situations. Whenever i want a break in office works, I will hear raja song , even in hectic work activity i will hear a song and go for meeting.

The Present songs which i live with are :

1) Aadhiyusha - what a roaring music
2) Kunnathae - soothing my whole body - applaus to KSC
3) madankala Mythavanalle - appreciate the whole crew and the directior for sensible taking.

and also I like the tribal song in audio.

Here in kuwait I am searching the original CD, wherever I go they shown the pirated MP3 versions, even in kerala shops. We can think how bad the marketing is, even in dubai i tried with my friends, not reached so far.. What to do :oops:

All the "PR" songs are of great energy , I bet nobody globally would have composed a song which gives us both "sympathy and roaring courage for a battle".

IR is the only Music director in the indian film industry who sustain and return like a storm.

And, why we have to compare our albums with Amercan strategy, Is they create songs for for " mother son relationship" " father son relationship" "Revenge" "celebrations" "unfaithful" "depression" "frustration" " friendship" " Lulubee" " courage " "songs in battlefield" "godfaith" "Loss" "Gain" "Happy " "Sorrow" "Seduce" "gratitude" "thanksgiving".... whatever the situation in real life. My master will give for the situation. All I can say is IR is the person who should give awards not to receive awards.

------------------

But one thing dear friends , tell me that following flims the recordings are not clear , may be i am hearing in pirated downloads or really somthing is missing in the recording

1. Mallipuvu - amazing songs
2. Prem Khani
3. Surya kanthi
4. Om shanti

I watched PR and PAA in kuwait in a IMAX theatre , the re recording is good and my friends were talking that the bow pulling the string and direction of the arrow can be easily imagine by closing the eyes.

In PAA the repetative theme might have minimised with new tunes.

Any how ......... I am happy person , because I go to trans situation whenver i hear IR songs.

LIKE SEX TO HUMAN BODY, I CAN ANALOGOUS "IR MUSIC' TO HUMAN SOUL.

Regards to all IR fans...

[irir123]

LIKE SEX TO HUMAN BODY, I CAN ANALOGOUS "IR MUSIC' TO HUMAN SOUL.

Regards to all IR fans...

brother, brother - idhai thaan IR "pasikkidhu pasikkidhu dhinam dhinam dhaan, thinnaa pasiyidhu theerndhidudhaa ?" apdeennu paadinaaro ?!

idhey rangela poi, IRai Osha Rajneesh of music appdeennu pattam kudukkaama irundha sari!

[Shankar]

Usha chEchi,
1. kAttukuLLE nadakkiradhE, malarE (kAdhal kadhai)
2. dhanam, dhanam/koothu oNNu, koothu oNNu (dhanam)
3. unnai enakku/karuga maNi (azhagar malai)

indha 6 pAttil endha portions ai eppadi rasikkaradhu nu solli kudungO. Especially unnai enakku & dhanam dhanam.

ennAla mudiyalai...please help !!

[Shankar]

appushiva,
>>>>>>
Whenever i want a break in office works, I will hear raja song , even in hectic work activity i will hear a song and go for meeting
<<<<<<

We have this part in common...some of the songs I listen to are:
1. nee pArtha pArvaikkoru nanri
2. poomalayE thOL sErava
3. indha minminikku kaNNil oru minnal vandhadhu
4. madai thirandhu (especially right before design discussions or a serious discussion with my team)
5. kanavil midhakkum
6. thaththAram mozhiyamma
7. kOththumbi
8. raja raja sOzhan nAn
9. bhoopALam isaikkum
10. thumbi vaa

neenga eppadi ??

[Shankar]

netrikkaN la rajnikanth theme, rAmanin mOhanam song ellAm kEttuttu channel mAthinA "karuga maNi...karuga maNi" sappai sandhathOda pAttu varadhu...indha ALu yEn ippadi time waste paNrAr nu kOvam varudhu...sari irukkara past numbers ai rasichu Otta vENdiyadhu thAn nu nenaichA, pAzhA pOna manushan oru Pazhassiyaum/Paa vum/edheya bagilu vayum koNdu vandhu nikkarAr...vENAm...ALUdhuruvEn....:)

[par]

Gokul / Jai,

I don't see any difference between forum members expressing their views here and with Karthik expressing his views. It is just that he expresses them in a blog. I don't see why that should make his views any more important than those of yours!!! I think we should take it in the spirit of 'one more view of the album' rather than "oh i was so expecting his review!!!" type of thing. As I said, it is just one point of view and which is in no superior or inferior to what is being discussed here.

Good point.

But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

[par]

irir123,

Agree with you that the prospect of an IR-Kamal combination at this point of time is mouth watering indeed. As you said, at no point has this combo failed to deliver and given the current enthusiasm and flow in Raja's music, someone like Kamal will end up getting some outstanding stuff.

Another point I agree with you is about letting him get to do a private album. I don't agree with one aspect of what you say though :D I would not ask him to score 'like' some music that I had heard and let him do what he wants. That way we may get the most 'unlikely' music and we will enjoy it immensely :)

I think all of us share these two things in common. A passion and enthusiasm for his music and the lack of money power to do anything about promoting it :D Atleast you are doing much better than many us in terms of spreading his music.

Kamal has made Ilaiyaraaja to do some 'like this song, like that song' songs as well. :)

[tvsankar]

Gokul / Jai,

I don't see any difference between forum members expressing their views here and with Karthik expressing his views. It is just that he expresses them in a blog. I don't see why that should make his views any more important than those of yours!!! I think we should take it in the spirit of 'one more view of the album' rather than "oh i was so expecting his review!!!" type of thing. As I said, it is just one point of view and which is in no superior or inferior to what is being discussed here.

Good point.

But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

par,
Yen vambuku alaiyareenga....
Chaaru vum suresh um equala......

Suresh oda views elalm parthu irukeengala....

or
Neenga dhan IR songs patri nalladha solli irukeengala......

but one point to your view

indha chaaru - nandhala music ku IR ai patri nalladha
solli irukar nu kelvipaten..

adhaiyum padinga....
Vambai mootai katti vainga....pl.....

[tvsankar]

Usha chEchi,
1. kAttukuLLE nadakkiradhE, malarE (kAdhal kadhai)
2. dhanam, dhanam/koothu oNNu, koothu oNNu (dhanam)
3. unnai enakku/karuga maNi (azhagar malai)

indha 6 pAttil endha portions ai eppadi rasikkaradhu nu solli kudungO. Especially unnai enakku & dhanam dhanam.

ennAla mudiyalai...please help !!

Shankar,
kandipa help panren.
give me little bit time.....
konjam mood out.
thread nalladha poindu irundhalae - yarukavadhu
edho agum..
konjam disturb panranga...
hmmm....
varen.
Unnai enaku - indha song ku solren.........

[tvsankar]

Unnai enaku

Shankar - idhu ungalukaga ezhudahren....

paatai headphone la kaelunga

IR songs pathi - pre image , idea ellathaiyum
azhichidunga...

plain a nenachikitu kaeka arambinga....

pesindu, velai senjindu - mood out
indha feelings oda - IR oda - New Film Songs ai thayavu senju kaekadheenga..

[irir123]

netrikkaN la rajnikanth theme, rAmanin mOhanam song ellAm kEttuttu channel mAthinA "karuga maNi...karuga maNi" sappai sandhathOda pAttu varadhu...indha ALu yEn ippadi time waste paNrAr nu kOvam varudhu...sari irukkara past numbers ai rasichu Otta vENdiyadhu thAn nu nenaichA, pAzhA pOna manushan oru Pazhassiyaum/Paa vum/edheya bagilu vayum koNdu vandhu nikkarAr...vENAm...ALUdhuruvEn....:)

Shankar - my dad used to be an IR-disliker (not hater), more so for his roots than an objective assessmen of his music - slowly he used to silently admire his genius but never admitting it openly! it was always AM Raja, MSV, a Salilda but never IR! for him and other family members, IR = dappankuthu music director. Unlike me who was hooked to IR's music right from the age of 5 when i first listened to his music in a 'kuzhaai' speaker in a quaint park in tirunagar, madurai (the park and the pillaiyar temple with its 'namboodhiri style-beard' sporting priest/kurukka still do exist in madurai!-))

until he saw an interview of IR on DD in the mid 1990s - i did not see the interview, but when i came home for vacation, he tells me with a completely changed tone - a tone that was once filled with dread and disprespect was now all awe and respect - paraphrasing him "indha aalu sadharana aalu illai! sithhan maari sirikkiraan - yedho oru amanushyamana power - ella casetteaiyum vechittu po" - i had to spend the next semester without my favorite collections of IR!

IR thus IMHO has an uncanny means of teasing ppl with his music as well as his personality! thus he will make you hate him as much as his music one day and next day, you will do the opposite!

avarum avar musicum puriyaadha pudhirgal!

[tvsankar]

Unnai enaku

About prelude

Veenai equala na oru sound - Synth sound il....

ipadi gavanichu kelunga.

Wah Wah sound ku equala oru sound.....

Beautiful lady's humming........
its easily merging with the veena sound......

could not seperate the humming and the veena sound.

Guitar like sound udan prelude mudindhu,
paatu start aradhae....

indha Beauty ungal kaadhuku pogalaiya Shankar...

(Shankar - indha per ennai romba disturb panradhu.. edho en kuda naanae pesara madhiri..
anyway, innum nalla review dhan kedaikum...
Suya alasal madhiri.. hahhaha..)

[Sureshs65]

Gokul / Jai,

I don't see any difference between forum members expressing their views here and with Karthik expressing his views. It is just that he expresses them in a blog. I don't see why that should make his views any more important than those of yours!!! I think we should take it in the spirit of 'one more view of the album' rather than "oh i was so expecting his review!!!" type of thing. As I said, it is just one point of view and which is in no superior or inferior to what is being discussed here.

Good point.

But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

par,

Charu's agenda is clear to everyone except to those who want to turn a blind eye :) I would more than willing to give the benefit to Charu had he just been expressing his views and not deliberately say stuff like 'Paa makes Raja a joker in North' and stuff like that. In case of Karthik, we can have difference of opinion with his reviews but again it is quite clear that he doesn't push an agenda.

(I am surprised that I have to explain this :D I thought it would be quite obvious to those who read Charu and those who read Karthik.)

[Sureshs65]

But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

I have no clue who called Charu a dog but I am certain that guy is going to have a tough time with the dogs when he walks the streets :lol:

[par]

Gokul / Jai,

I don't see any difference between forum members expressing their views here and with Karthik expressing his views. It is just that he expresses them in a blog. I don't see why that should make his views any more important than those of yours!!! I think we should take it in the spirit of 'one more view of the album' rather than "oh i was so expecting his review!!!" type of thing. As I said, it is just one point of view and which is in no superior or inferior to what is being discussed here.

Good point.

But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

par,
Yen vambuku alaiyareenga....
Chaaru vum suresh um equala......

Suresh oda views elalm parthu irukeengala....

or
Neenga dhan IR songs patri nalladha solli irukeengala......

but one point to your view

indha chaaru - nandhala music ku IR ai patri nalladha
solli irukar nu kelvipaten..

adhaiyum padinga....
Vambai mootai katti vainga....pl.....

I think you misunderstood me. I wonder why we should let anybody's opinion bother us.

//Neenga dhan IR songs patri nalladha solli irukeengala......//

I like to keep my likes and dislikes to myself.

[tvsankar]

Bhavadharni's singing - is really energetic...

Unnai enaku thandhadharu - Bhavadharni kooda varum Ladys' chorus.......

romba azhagu....

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

amman dhan amman dhan

osai dhan osai dhan

thum ka thum ka thuma thaka

kudave varum Beats - all are nice to hear.....

Melae sonna athanai vishayam, Strong Hamsadhvani yil
varumae - adhu inum azhagu.......

Unnai enaku - this time - wah wha guitar, beats, chorus - ivai ellam oru ootam odumae....

Heroine - Hero vai thedi odi padara madhiri oru mood ai kodukum.........

1st interlude

dono the name of the instrument...
it gives the Hamsadhvani's Extract....

its smoothly transfered from left ear to right ear......

NIce experience it is...

soap bubbles madhiri oru sound - it acts like a bridge.....
Violin ?????/ - Enna oru sharp notes. as a knife..... vettara madhiri....

Now the charanam starts...
Bubbly sounds - Reflector of the singer...
too much friendly..........

2nd interlude

this portion is tooooooo much SHARP.........
Guitar and bubbly sound, kaadhai kashta padutha
oru instrument.... eventhough its too much sharp.......

Hamsadhvani yaga varum violin bit... it calls
the singer to see the hero........

this 2nd interlude - surely gives you the
night mood........

Now the charanam starts........

ipadi kaeka mudiyaradha.. mudiyalaiya....
sollungo Shankar.......

[par]

I read some pages back 'sooriyanai paarthu..' proverb.





But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

I have no clue who called Charu a dog but I am certain that guy is going to have a tough time with the dogs when he walks the streets :lol:

:lol:

[tvsankar]

Par,
ungaluku reply panna maten...
Anavasiyama idam waste agum.......

[par]

Gokul / Jai,

I don't see any difference between forum members expressing their views here and with Karthik expressing his views. It is just that he expresses them in a blog. I don't see why that should make his views any more important than those of yours!!! I think we should take it in the spirit of 'one more view of the album' rather than "oh i was so expecting his review!!!" type of thing. As I said, it is just one point of view and which is in no superior or inferior to what is being discussed here.

Good point.

But why are we not applying the same logic to Charu Niveditha? Why are we calling him crazy, dog, etc.?

par,

Charu's agenda is clear to everyone except to those who want to turn a blind eye :) I would more than willing to give the benefit to Charu had he just been expressing his views and not deliberately say stuff like 'Paa makes Raja a joker in North' and stuff like that. In case of Karthik, we can have difference of opinion with his reviews but again it is quite clear that he doesn't push an agenda.

(I am surprised that I have to explain this :D I thought it would be quite obvious to those who read Charu and those who read Karthik.)

Charu doesn't like Raaja's music and calls it trash. Some of us don't like Charu's opinion and call him crazy.
Both cases are at the same level in my mind. Throwing mud :)

Why should we go that low?

[par]

Par,
ungaluku reply panna maten...
Anavasiyama idam waste agum.......

Exactly my point :clap:
If I don't like Charu, I will keep away from him.

[tvsankar]

Shankar,
Unga list ai partha - 80s ai thaandi varalai pola irukae...

Vedham pudhidhu - film la - paiyan Sathyaraj parthu solvan - naan karai yeriten.. neenga angaeyae irukaelae nu..

andha madhiri,,
IR - 2010 varai music seinju irukar..
Neenga inum 80s list layae irukeengalae..

apo epadi ......... romba kashtam shankar...

Neraiya Homework ungaluku iruku....

90s Raajavai kelunga... Then 2000 ku vango... pesalam...

[Sanjeevi]

Charu doesn't like Raaja's music and calls it trash. Some of us don't like Charu's opinion and call him crazy.
Both cases are at the same level in my mind.

Objection your honour :)

you are toally wrong. If anybody said here "Charu's Zero degree novel is worst?" or "His serious articles are exactly a comedy piece?". We told against him for his statement on IR and his music. period

[Sureshs65]

par,

I will tell this slowly one last time and I hope you will understand.

There is a major difference between saying that you don't like 'Paa' songs and saying 'Paa is the laughing stock of North India. Check with your friends and if that is not the case I will remove half of my lovely mustache' or some such thing.

If the difference between these two statements is clear, we don't have an argument. In case it is not clear, then also we don't have an argument.

[irir123]

par,

I will tell this slowly one last time and I hope you will understand.

There is a major difference between saying that you don't like 'Paa' songs and saying 'Paa is the laughing stock of North India. Check with your friends and if that is not the case I will remove half of my lovely mustache' or some such thing.

If the difference between these two statements is clear, we don't have an argument. In case it is not clear, then also we don't have an argument.

suresh65 - IMHO, both charu and par need to be safely ignored - giving them and their opinions importance actually gives them credibility!

[Sureshs65]

Very true irir123. And desist I shall.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

oru levelukku mela IR pathi analysis pannum intha makkalukku innamum charu oru manushanaaga paduvathu is surprising to me! IR's famelight is so powerful that we are / were thinking that he is the only one in whole of TN to make fun on raja(leave alone the 'few' ARR fans) thats the 1st mistake. he may dislike and totally discard raja, thats ok (infact thats not the case, he has written that he liked thiruvaasagam and nandalala) vimarsanangal sagajam thaan.

but look at the recent issue in mudam arasu bathilgal. the reader asked a question that did charu says hat IR DONT KNOW to compose music? what say abt it? the arasu answer is, charu is looked upon like a joker, in literary community.

charu, with all anger repented and tried to showcase(but in poor vain :lol: ) his 'unexisting' fame at kerala!!! but the problem is he never corrected his statement. he didnt try to say "நான் இளையராஜாவுக்கு இசையமைக்கவே தெரியாது என்று சொல்லவில்லை, அவரின் இசையை கடுமையாக விமரிசித்தேன், அவ்வளவுதான்" and that is too bad right?


இளையராஜாவின் இசையை கடுமையாக விமர்சிப்பதும்,
அவருக்கு (மருந்துக்கு கூட )இசையமைக்கவே தெரியாது என்று சொல்வதும், முற்றிலும் வெவ்வேறு. இதற்கு மேலும் சாரு நிவதிதாவை ஆதரிப்பவர்களை என்னென்று சொல்வது ? நல்ல வேலை, தமிழ்நாட்டில் மொத்தமும் ஒரு முப்பத்திநாலு பேருக்கு தான் சாறு என்றால் யார் என்று தெரியும்

[cry_sandiego]

1.30- 2.05 in Edhaya Baagilu -- Too Cool !! 8-) Raja Raja Thaan.

[MADDY]

IR's famelight is so powerful that we are / were thinking that he is the only one in whole of TN to make fun on raja(leave alone the 'few' ARR fans)

//eh? :confused2: .......puriyala sakala - enna solreenga? //

[rajasaranam]

Charu doesn't like Raaja's music and calls it trash. Some of us don't like Charu's opinion and call him crazy.
Both cases are at the same level in my mind. Throwing mud :)

Why should we go that low?

I've read Charu's 0 Degree, Kalagam kAdhal Isai and rate him one of the ebst post modern writers in Tamizh. I Specifically call him a 'Crazy Dog' ( if that may apply had I written it earlier or else now) only due to his arrogant blinded bad mouthing about Raaja. If he has a problem in Raaja calling Gaddar, Bob Dylan and the Revolutionary musicians as Garbage ( That was not the case in reality IMHO. Reading the Article by S Anand will clearly indicate Anand's Agenda and how he had bullied Raaja to get those words from his mouth) He should've responded to that, not Trashing Raaja's music. My gut feeling is Charu Loves every part of Raaja's music and has created a pit for himself in the wrong notion that Raaja is against revolutionary music (Oh...Let him listen to Manitha Manitha from KSMS and Poraada..da from ALaiosai ) and living in that pit. Let him come out of that pit first, Only after that we can consider him to be a good human being. Till then he will be a errr... watever... :P

[K]

Charu doesn't like Raaja's music and calls it trash. Some of us don't like Charu's opinion and call him crazy.
Both cases are at the same level in my mind. Throwing mud :)

Why should we go that low?

I've read Charu's 0 Degree, Kalagam kAdhal Isai and rate him one of the ebst post modern writers in Tamizh. I Specifically call him a 'Crazy Dog' ( if that may apply had I written it earlier or else now) only due to his arrogant blinded bad mouthing about Raaja. If he has a problem in Raaja calling Gaddar, Bob Dylan and the Revolutionary musicians as Garbage ( That was not the case in reality IMHO. Reading the Article by S Anand will clearly indicate Anand's Agenda and how he had bullied Raaja to get those words from his mouth) He should've responded to that, not Trashing Raaja's music. My gut feeling is Charu Loves every part of Raaja's music and has created a pit for himself in the wrong notion that Raaja is against revolutionary music (Oh...Let him listen to Manitha Manitha from KSMS and Poraada..da from ALaiosai ) and living in that pit. Let him come out of that pit first, Only after that we can consider him to be a good human being. Till then he will be a errr... watever... :P

one help Sir KSMS Song theriyum, Poraada daa from Alaiosai? unga kitta iruntha pls share. Thank u.

[app_engine]

எல்லாம் சரி, அவர் எப்போ எழுதுவதையே நிறுத்தப்போறார் (அல்லது குறைந்த பட்சம் 'பா பற்றி தான் சவால் விட்டு எழுதினது தப்பு'ன்னு பகிரங்க மன்னிப்பு கேக்கப்போறார்) ?

சும்மா இந்த நந்தலாலா உலகத்தரம் பம்மாத்தெல்லாம் வேலைக்காவாது!

சவால் விடப்டாது, விட்டா சொன்னதை செய்யணும் :-) செஞ்சதுக்குக்கப்புறம் அந்த ஆளை எந்தக்கணக்கில் சேர்ப்பதுன்னு பேசலாம்!

[rajasaranam]

after 4 days of leave came back to hub and read around 10 pages. oops.. so much of discussion on a 'burnt out composer' :lol2:

read someone wrote 'Raaja is weak in vocal Harmony' (I think its shankar, if not sorry) or something like that in response to irir's irritation towards jangu chaks and jingu chaks. Hmmmm... the person needs a proper initiation and education in regards to what vocal harmony is and where do songs like Thamtha theemtha, eriyile elantha maram, thendral vanthu... and many other songs with rich vocal harmony layers are present.
irir
Getting back to 'jingu chak's and jangu chak's the discussion on which irir has put to rest. my point is these things has to accepted by your american friends in our socio-cultural aspects not theirs. Doesnt these sound fun to you at all! high time we shed our prejudicies and try to see how Raaja approaches music in line with the film, characters and mood.

shankar,

How to enjoy the specific songs! Certainly these things cannot be explained since it is purely subjective and personal experience only. There are no proven scientific methods to make one love something or not. It just happens. Being a fan doesnt necesserily demand you to expect songs of high calibre only. Understanding Raaja is not composing 'albums' but 'Soundtracks' will be the first step towards this direction.

'Karuga mani Karuga Mani' was the best hit song of the movie ( To the extent of the movie's reach) and was demanded/played often in the Channels during the movies short-run. To trash it needs a mindset which keeps us in a high pedestal and I hope you have got it already. So Please enjoy the songs which gives you that elation and dont try to understand/listen to songs which are a delight to common man, it needs a higher level opening up in the mind to lap-up the beauty of other worlds.

Its a different World for us Raaja Fans here, who hail his every song as the best, that Specific Situation, that specific movie has got. The songs falls in place perfectly as does his BGM's. So we have no qualms when the hero goes 'Sullikuppam Ganapathikku Soorathenga udaikerendaa' or 'Adiyushas Sandhya poothathivide' because that is what the situation demanded from Raaja as a composer and he has delivered his 100%. If you have problems you can trash the Film Director for creating such uninspiring situations in the movie instead of Raaja who has given his heart and soul to understand the vision of the Director and perform in full.

<<<will continue later...>>>

[Sanjeevi]

எல்லாம் சரி, அவர் எப்போ எழுதுவதையே நிறுத்தப்போறார் (அல்லது குறைந்த பட்சம் 'பா பற்றி தான் சவால் விட்டு எழுதினது தப்பு'ன்னு பகிரங்க மன்னிப்பு கேக்கப்போறார்) ?

சும்மா இந்த நந்தலாலா உலகத்தரம் பம்மாத்தெல்லாம் வேலைக்காவாது!

சவால் விடப்டாது, விட்டா சொன்னதை செய்யணும் :-) செஞ்சதுக்குக்கப்புறம் அந்த ஆளை எந்தக்கணக்கில் சேர்ப்பதுன்னு பேசலாம்!

:lol:

அதானே இந்த கூத்துல அந்த சவாலை மறந்துடாதீங்கப்பா

[Punnaimaran]

One +ve development with the recent IR albums (even the vAlmeeki / azhagar malai kind) is the glorious return of bass and similar return of percussion sounds :-)

mudi - mudi sounds are like agni* days when IR was the authority in that area. Both the prelude and interlude have mirattal guitar sounds that he reserves only for select numbers nowadays.
:2thumbsup: Well said, I too felt the same.

Listen to "Chinna Polike" song, especially when kunal and sunidhi repeat the pallavi/anupallavi portions after the first charanam. I loved it.

thanks,

Krishnan

Thanx Krish for pointing out the beauty. You made my day.

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

IR's famelight is so powerful that we are / were thinking that he is the only one in whole of TN to make fun on raja(leave alone the 'few' ARR fans)

//eh? :confused2: .......puriyala sakala - enna solreenga? //

maddy, dont mistake, raja rahman diskassen sila samayam sandaila mudiyumpothu sila ARR fans making fun of IR and IR fans making fun of ARR sagajam illayaa?(nevermind who starts fisrt) i meant that and not anyone specifically

freeya vidunga :)

[MADDY]

IR's famelight is so powerful that we are / were thinking that he is the only one in whole of TN to make fun on raja(leave alone the 'few' ARR fans)

//eh? :confused2: .......puriyala sakala - enna solreenga? //

maddy, dont mistake, raja rahman diskassen sila samayam sandaila mudiyumpothu sila ARR fans making fun of IR and IR fans making fun of ARR sagajam illayaa?(nevermind who starts fisrt) i meant that and not anyone specifically

freeya vidunga :)

illa illa - idhula enna irukku :) .......its true, there is disrespect in both camps but that is pretty harmless compared to the broad and concerted malignation campaign of charu on IR......charu blabberings are unparalleled.........

[irir123]

after 4 days of leave came back to hub and read around 10 pages. oops.. so much of discussion on a 'burnt out composer' :lol2:

irir
Getting back to 'jingu chak's and jangu chak's the discussion on which irir has put to rest. my point is these things has to accepted by your american friends in our socio-cultural aspects not theirs.

hello - not just american friends, as i have explained earlier, there is nothing like an 'american' - its a melting pot here - if you are using words in a song meaning lyrics they better have some meaning if you want serious music fans to appreciate music - am not talking abt the britney spears, shakira music lovers - am talking abt the country, folk music lovers who also love johnny cash, phil collins et al - if you dont want lyrics, then fine, dont compose music for lyrics, just stick to instrumentals - you may or may not be happy with it - am fine with it and so will be lovers of dire straits, or, pink floyd, who care not much abt lyrics, but only abt musical creativity

while PR is complete from both lyrical/musical point of view, an album like suryakanthi is spoilt royally by these 'mumbo-jumbo' crap - its like making a nice 'javvarisi paayasam' and adding some iron filings into it ! doesnt make sense to me

btw, the same american friends can appreciate and relate to "megam karukkuthu, mazhai vara paarkudhu' for its 'overall innocence and rustic beauty' - this song did not have the 'dangu dingu' nonsense

fyki, am not claiming adding legitimacy to my claims by referring to 'american' friends - long before i even set out overseas, way back in the 1980s, i felt odd/disgusted by IR's use of such nonsense! have u listened to 'ku ku ku kokila raave' from sitara (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GoZuUdh-cQ) ? such a beautiful tune (complete in its pallavi and charanam et al) is totally spoilt by the 'pee pee' (again!) in the second interlude! i simply dont see any connection between the quality of the sublime tune and this anything-but-sublime nonsense!

once again am telling you, i dont become an IR hater and a cynic just because i point out these definite drawbacks - am yet to see a truely accomplished composer in the international/national scene, resorting to such nonsense and fans still legitimising it relating it to cultural/social factors - an 'aylesa' or a 'yelo yelo' chrous, by fishermen/farmers or 'lali lali' as a lullaby is standard, have heard it myself, but to use every other 'word' tat comes to ones imagination n use it in songs and somehow give it a social/cultural relevance to the same sounds naive - i dont care if any other composer does it or not, i only care abt IR using it and cant accept the same after 880 films into his career!

i didnt want to post this, but cudnt resist after the repeated harking abt social and cultural relevance without substantiating the same with real examples

[rajaalltheway]

Todays Malayala Manorama carries a statement issued by Ayya on Pazhassi Raja lyrics controversy.Ayya says he never said anything against ONV and he is nothing before the great poet.He further adds that when Hariharan narrated the song situation he had a particular idea on the shaping up of the song.When he got the lyrics he had to keep it aside and come with a new one which became "Aadhi usha sandhya".Manorama is gutter press personified.After Paa music got released there was a lengthy article in the lines of "how dare Ilaiyaraaja criticize when he can only rehash his old tunes for a movie starring amitabh himself".It was their reports that lead usually very silent people like Ouseppachan and Hariharan declare war on Ayya

[AravindMano]

Todays Malayala Manorama carries a statement issued by Ayya on Pazhassi Raja lyrics controversy.Ayya says he never said anything against ONV and he is nothing before the great poet.He further adds that when Hariharan narrated the song situation he had a particular idea on the shaping up of the song.When he got the lyrics he had to keep it aside and come with a new one which became "Aadhi usha sandhya".Manorama is gutter press personified.After Paa music got released there was a lengthy article in the lines of "how dare Ilaiyaraaja criticize when he can only rehash his old tunes for a movie starring amitabh himself".It was their reports that lead usually very silent people like Ouseppachan and Hariharan declare war on Ayya

Nalla vishayam. Andha aRikkaila yaarum kuttaya kuzhappaama irundhaa seri!

[rajasaranam]

i didnt want to post this, but cudnt resist after the repeated harking abt social and cultural relevance without substantiating the same with real examples

How about you widening your knowledge about Folk music of south India and then getting to know that these jinkchaks, jamchaks, dingdongs, damaku dams and numerous other catch phrases employed by Raaja in various songs are from the vocabulary of the common folks of Rural India?!!

How do I substantiate this with real examples? It was there, It is there and It will be there in common mans Vocabulary. I've seen and heard people singing without words using only jingsa jingsa while separating rice and husk with Ural+Ualkkai or chamchak, jinguchaks, in multiple Rural Festivals. Infact I've never heard 'Ailelo' or 'Ailesaa' in real life which are distinct sounds to seashore folks. I've heard them only through cinema songs. Had I been a blinded Cat, I would've dismissed them as some alien sounds which Raaja (or any other composer) has conjured up himself.


felt odd/disgusted by IR's use of such nonsense! have u listened to 'ku ku ku kokila raave' from sitara (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GoZuUdh-cQ) ? such a beautiful tune (complete in its pallavi and charanam et al) is totally spoilt by the 'pee pee' (again!) in the second interlude! i simply dont see any connection between the quality of the sublime tune and this anything-but-sublime nonsense!

Again! you heard only the 'pee pee' not the accompanying 'dam dam' both sounds accentuating each other because an artist was trying to experiment instrumental sounds with human voices as does young children. ( My own childhood personal experience relates to these 'pee peeeeii' and 'dam dams' or 'tataaataaans' being played without instruments with our own mouths when playing games or even the 'darrr' 'uzzz' sound of bikes and scooters were created with our own mouths during some other games.) If 'Vamsi' the director of the movie wanted to emulate such a scene with 'kiddishness' thrown in this situation what is there for us to bother?

Listening to Vamsi/Raaja combo is always a delight since these two crossed the limits in their artistic ways of exploring into film making and music making. both were made for each other and had sheer fun in breaking the norms of then film/music making style. The music from these mens films are replete with such incorrigible human voices adding them on to music and layering them in their stupidest form, Questioning every authority about what is music and what is not? Madmen they are, filled with such nonsense, Experimentation at its height. It is only possible to get engulfed into this madness or get away from them to live in sanity. I want to be MAD!

[rajasaranam]

Vamsi/Raaja Combo :

Sitara
April 1st Vidhuthala
Anveshana
Maharshi
Preminchu Pelladu
Chettukinda Pleader
Sri Kanaka Mahalaxmi Recording Dance Troupe
Aalapana
Ladies Tailor
Anumanaspadam

Madmen at Work :lol: After posting the above I've put all the songs from these films and playing @ shuffle mode. ...tha Sheer fun & Hilarious - the way they have pushed the limits of music language. :rotfl3: Raaja needs someone like this now to motivate him :|

[rajasaranam]

one help Sir KSMS Song theriyum, Poraada daa from Alaiosai? unga kitta iruntha pls share. Thank u.

Here
http://www.mediafire.com/?tjamwyfdx4v

[uwithsankar]

[tscii:96a81a1568]When Charu criticize abt Raaja no body should discuss on that, but when Kumudam writes charu is a joker on his comments on Raaja , he will do monky dance and cry that how can he write that , if he write he will not work in kumudam like that… what a zero man… [/tscii:96a81a1568]

[raagas]

RS, you forgot Detective Narada in that Vamsi-IR combo. Good songs!

[Hulkster]

Todays Malayala Manorama carries a statement issued by Ayya on Pazhassi Raja lyrics controversy.Ayya says he never said anything against ONV and he is nothing before the great poet.He further adds that when Hariharan narrated the song situation he had a particular idea on the shaping up of the song.When he got the lyrics he had to keep it aside and come with a new one which became "Aadhi usha sandhya".Manorama is gutter press personified.After Paa music got released there was a lengthy article in the lines of "how dare Ilaiyaraaja criticize when he can only rehash his old tunes for a movie starring amitabh himself".It was their reports that lead usually very silent people like Ouseppachan and Hariharan declare war on Ayya

It was obvious from the way he spoke on the function that he was not criticising Ouseppachan but rather speaking on how he felt should have been tuned. Enna seivethu if thalaivar uses a single odd-sounding word , they would immediately create a 2-page article sound like 2012 has arrived.

[par]

As everybody had a 'final' comment on Charu, let me have one too. :D

Even though I haven't said anything wrong about Ilaiyaraaja (which I would never say) or anything good about Charu, the regulars here were on to me quickly. No surprises there. :D

In an argument, you say something... the other one says something... you say another thing.. the situation heats up... then an unwanted thing is said in a angry state of mind. It is always the case, unless one withdraws mid way.

Charu's dislike for Ilaiyaraaja is nothing new. He is saying uncharitable things about him for years now. If Ilaiyaraaja's fans have not responded to those comments at the initial stage, Charu may have stopped writing about Ilaiyaraaja (I am only guessing here :) ). To my mind, now it's more of Charu vs Fans of Ilaiyaraaja than Charu vs Ilaiyaraaja.

[par]

About this jinkchaks, jamchaks stuff.......

I live very near to Ilaiyaraaja's native place. I have not heard anything like that in these parts.

There are two possibilities I may guess. Folk songs may have been sung with words like that in his younger days. There are not that many who sings folk songs here these days. Second, he may have got it from other parts of TN. We all know he travelled all over TN in his younger days.

[Shankar.P]

even in PR's 'ambum kombum' the tribals ye chorus sounds very funny and creates an upbeat mood. if asali pisili kathakali (aadhavan) is meaningful and appealing for this generation...why should we cry over jinkchaks, jamchaks, dingdongs, damaku dams

[rajasaranam]

About this jinkchaks, jamchaks stuff.......

I live very near to Ilaiyaraaja's native place. I have not heard anything like that in these parts.
ரைஸ் மில்லு வந்துதான் உரலையும் உலக்கையையும் கொண்டு போய்டுச்சே! அப்புறம் எங்க 'ஜிங்கு சான்' வாழும்? அவர் இசையிலாவது அந்த சப்தங்கள் வாழட்டும் :)

[rajasaranam]

RS, you forgot Detective Narada in that Vamsi-IR combo. Good songs!

yeah! yes :thumbsup:

[irir123]

even in PR's 'ambum kombum' the tribals ye chorus sounds very funny and creates an upbeat mood. if asali pisili kathakali (aadhavan) is meaningful and appealing for this generation...why should we cry over jinkchaks, jamchaks, dingdongs, damaku dams

leave PR aside - the use of tribal chorus sounds in 'ambum kombm' was quite apt to the "T" -

[irir123]

About this jinkchaks, jamchaks stuff.......

I live very near to Ilaiyaraaja's native place. I have not heard anything like that in these parts.
ரைஸ் மில்லு வந்துதான் உரலையும் உலக்கையையும் கொண்டு போய்டுச்சே! அப்புறம் எங்க 'ஜிங்கு சான்' வாழும்? அவர் இசையிலாவது அந்த சப்தங்கள் வாழட்டும் :)

i give up - absolutely no point in trying to explain/get my points across- of course no offense meant

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

Charu's dislike for Ilaiyaraaja is nothing new. He is saying uncharitable things about him for years now. If Ilaiyaraaja's fans have not responded to those comments at the initial stage, Charu may have stopped writing about Ilaiyaraaja (I am only guessing here :) ). To my mind, now it's more of Charu vs Fans of Ilaiyaraaja than Charu vs Ilaiyaraaja.

par, the thing is, almost all got familiar with the loads of crap junk that charu sheds in tons, about raja and others like kamal etc. most of us are just happy whenever we see him posting about raja. we got new entertainment, jokes right? so charu wont go out of raja fans or kamalfans discussion. who will give such an entertainment?? but sad thing is, we still see some souls supporting him and his ilakkiyam which is non existing and unpopular by all ways.

avangala nirutha shollunga!! btw, naanga eppavum nirutha maattom, we need charu the joker :lol:

[par]

About this jinkchaks, jamchaks stuff.......

I live very near to Ilaiyaraaja's native place. I have not heard anything like that in these parts.
ரைஸ் மில்லு வந்துதான் உரலையும் உலக்கையையும் கொண்டு போய்டுச்சே! அப்புறம் எங்க 'ஜிங்கு சான்' வாழும்? அவர் இசையிலாவது அந்த சப்தங்கள் வாழட்டும் :)

We still have one :D

[Saagar]

[tscii:b725736f04]
after 4 days of leave came back to hub and read around 10 pages. oops.. so much of discussion on a 'burnt out composer' :lol2:



Same here.. & I have been travelling from Delhi to Mumbai in the last week.First things - You get to know the actual reach during travel. The Marathi family in our compartment in the train had a son in 6th standard & when my daughter was not opening up for more than a few hours, they prompted the son to the Paa monkey dance & I was surprised, the son & later joined by his father broke of to the monkey dance while the father also recited the theme music piece.
I was surprised – the first hand experience of the level to which the theme music & the music has really sunk – in a place at “random”. Not really the way some guys have placed suspicion on it in their article.
By the end of our journey, the guy taught my 4 year old daughter the sequence of steps, which is complicated I must say, watching them do it a few times, but the children were enjoying!
[/tscii:b725736f04]

[app_engine]

Interesting, Saagar!

Now, let the people who talk about "IR's music is confined to south" explain what is that he has done extraordinary in pA to get their attention :-)

IMO, it's all the same (actually a number of tunes reused / slightly modified and the orchestration is nothing one can call "north Indian" or catering to their sensibilities etc).

Reason for reach is simple - vehicle & timing! Ofcourse, some interest and focus!

Only these were missing during his prime and the reach-non reach has got nothing to do with music or sensibilities of audience IMSO!

[Saagar]

Saw Paa at a theatre in Bandra, Mumbai. Defintely a milestone film.

The songs & the music is so well integrated as a part of the film. One thing that I definitely liked (after watching the film) that I failed to appreciate earlier was the lyrics. Swanand Kirkire has done a very good job. Simple but effective lyrics - and nothing that stands out very odd - another reason for some of IR's earlier Hindi films not doing well. Remember an interview with Sameer, where he had said after Cheeni Kum that IR had felt that many of his earlier songs did not click earlier due to lyrics thats stood out sorely & that Sameer's lyrics gelled best in Hindi for his music.

Balki's placement of songs was excellent. Right from Halke se Bole that went bang on to create goosebumps to the last one.

But could not hide my disappointment that Gum sum was not in full & Mere Paa appearing at the end credits. He could have definitely used them to the full. While my wife too complained, Just after Gum Sum, the ladies in the row in front of us, were also saying the same for Gum sum!

But on the whole, A must watch film , you cannot imagine the film being the same without any of the key people - Amitabh,Abhishek,Vidya, Balki,PC & Of course IR!

[Saagar]

Interesting, Saagar!

Now, let the people who talk about "IR's music is confined to south" explain what is that he has done extraordinary in pA to get their attention :-)

IMO, it's all the same (actually a number of tunes reused / slightly modified and the orchestration is nothing one can call "north Indian" or catering to their sensibilities etc).

Reason for reach is simple - vehicle & timing! Ofcourse, some interest and focus!

Only these were missing during his prime and the reach-non reach has got nothing to do with music or sensibilities of audience IMSO!

Well said "Reason for reach is simple - vehicle & timing! Ofcourse, some interest and focus!". Pity such things did not happen earlier!

[app_engine]

Pity such things did not happen earlier!

In a selfish way, I'm happy that it didn't happen earlier :-)

Had the north and elsewhere "koththikkittu pOidufy" IR very early (like they did do with ARR), TFM would have been horribly poorer (look how TN is so shabbily treated today with repetitive stuff that HJ dishes out ruling the roost).

I don't think IR have much regrets too :-)

All who worry are those who compare IR's career with Michael Jackson's reach / ARR's international acclaim and the like :-) Those who've never done that or stopped doing that are at total peace :-)

[jaiganes]

even in PR's 'ambum kombum' the tribals ye chorus sounds very funny and creates an upbeat mood. if asali pisili kathakali (aadhavan) is meaningful and appealing for this generation...why should we cry over jinkchaks, jamchaks, dingdongs, damaku dams

leave PR aside - the use of tribal chorus sounds in 'ambum kombm' was quite apt to the "T" -

1. Damakku damakku dam from Azhagi
2. kakakaa kiki koo kooka ka ke kuku kuku ke ke - form chingaravelan
3. dingu daangu rappappov - from valli

some exaamples where the 'cutesy' verbal sounds being absent would have left me sadder.

thamizhlaye rettai kiLAvinnu onnu irukku - repeating words to fill in sandham is not something only IR introduced.
so it is technically which verbal sound is appealing to you as an individual.
While some people react to 'pee pee - thottu nakku thottu nakku' when they hear 'pee pee doddu nattu doddu nattu' some people dont. so ur 'haiyyo haiyyo' or 'yo mans' or my 'chaangu chakkus' or 'damakku damakkus' is a very subjective opinion bordering on infringement of personal preference of a music composer. If I were some one like raaja and some one approaches me with such a suggestion to avoid my choice 'filler sounds', I would react like assembly speaker calling on guards on seeing opposition MLAs storming the well.
Indha vishayathula raasappuvukku naan 'vaanalaaviya adhigaaram' tharugiren.

[irir123]

even in PR's 'ambum kombum' the tribals ye chorus sounds very funny and creates an upbeat mood. if asali pisili kathakali (aadhavan) is meaningful and appealing for this generation...why should we cry over jinkchaks, jamchaks, dingdongs, damaku dams

leave PR aside - the use of tribal chorus sounds in 'ambum kombm' was quite apt to the "T" -

1. Damakku damakku dam from Azhagi
2. kakakaa kiki koo kooka ka ke kuku kuku ke ke - form chingaravelan
3. dingu daangu rappappov - from valli

some exaamples where the 'cutesy' verbal sounds being absent would have left me sadder.

thamizhlaye rettai kiLAvinnu onnu irukku - repeating words to fill in sandham is not something only IR introduced.
so it is technically which verbal sound is appealing to you as an individual.
While some people react to 'pee pee - thottu nakku thottu nakku' when they hear 'pee pee doddu nattu doddu nattu' some people dont. so ur 'haiyyo haiyyo' or 'yo mans' or my 'chaangu chakkus' or 'damakku damakkus' is a very subjective opinion bordering on infringement of personal preference of a music composer. If I were some one like raaja and some one approaches me with such a suggestion to avoid my choice 'filler sounds', I would react like assembly speaker calling on guards on seeing opposition MLAs storming the well.
Indha vishayathula raasappuvukku naan 'vaanalaaviya adhigaaram' tharugiren.

if i sort out the songs, in which IR consciously avoids using these 'filler' words, they happen to be for films in which the director, most likely insists on NOT having such words!

wonder how a "pootukkul pottalum" (tats a track meant for a 'kid' situation in 'kshatriyan'), wud have sounded with such words - tats why i wonder if IR writes a score thats so intricate so that there is no space to accomodate such stuff, and then there are scores, in which he introduces these 'filler' words not coz of lack of imagination, but lack of effort ?!

[jaiganes]

even in PR's 'ambum kombum' the tribals ye chorus sounds very funny and creates an upbeat mood. if asali pisili kathakali (aadhavan) is meaningful and appealing for this generation...why should we cry over jinkchaks, jamchaks, dingdongs, damaku dams

leave PR aside - the use of tribal chorus sounds in 'ambum kombm' was quite apt to the "T" -

1. Damakku damakku dam from Azhagi
2. kakakaa kiki koo kooka ka ke kuku kuku ke ke - form chingaravelan
3. dingu daangu rappappov - from valli

some exaamples where the 'cutesy' verbal sounds being absent would have left me sadder.

thamizhlaye rettai kiLAvinnu onnu irukku - repeating words to fill in sandham is not something only IR introduced.
so it is technically which verbal sound is appealing to you as an individual.
While some people react to 'pee pee - thottu nakku thottu nakku' when they hear 'pee pee doddu nattu doddu nattu' some people dont. so ur 'haiyyo haiyyo' or 'yo mans' or my 'chaangu chakkus' or 'damakku damakkus' is a very subjective opinion bordering on infringement of personal preference of a music composer. If I were some one like raaja and some one approaches me with such a suggestion to avoid my choice 'filler sounds', I would react like assembly speaker calling on guards on seeing opposition MLAs storming the well.
Indha vishayathula raasappuvukku naan 'vaanalaaviya adhigaaram' tharugiren.

if i sort out the songs, in which IR consciously avoids using these 'filler' words, they happen to be for films in which the director, most likely insists on NOT having such words!

wonder how a "pootukkul pottalum" (tats a track meant for a 'kid' situation in 'kshatriyan'), wud have sounded with such words - tats why i wonder if IR writes a score thats so intricate so that there is no space to accomodate such stuff, and then there are scores, in which he introduces these 'filler' words not coz of lack of imagination, but lack of effort ?!
could also be the other way around.
for the sandham, the lyricist couldnt find a word, so the 'filler' gets used.
However I would have to strongly disagree with couple of your posts and Shankar's statements on 'pee pee pee' in Rajadhi raaja 'vaa vaa manjal malare' song.
The interlude where 'pee pee' sounds start, there would be a 'marriage' setting with Rajini playing the 'fake nadhaswaram' - so it was apropos.
<digression>
Having said that, the art of pagadi' is twisting sane sounding words and giving them a funny, sarcastic (sometimes disgusting) pokes out of it.
<disgust alert>
My friends and me as school boys used to sing 'vaa vaa manjal malame' and had absolute fun at the 'pee pee' sound in the interlude. Much the same way we had great fun in making 'satti suttadhadaa' as 'jatti vuttadhadaa' and had great fun when Kamal used it in Maharaasan. when thumburu had earlier made fun of 'unnai patri sonnaal' song, I was reminded to remind her that all her 'pooja worthy' classics can be made fun of in a similar or more hilarious fashion. I had not said it then, but now in this dicussion, I remembered that too.
</disgust alert>
</digression>

[Plum]

I dont know where I stand in this debate but I can list down some individual thoughts which I have never correlated before to have a firm opinion on this weird words issue
* Absolutely hated jaanguchakku when it came out, and thought - without the helpful influences of Charus and Pappus - that it sucked. Could never reconcile it with the rest of the song. In retrospect, it probably had to be some weird chorus given the situation/picturisation and am not sure what other chorus would have left me happy. So, there, it is just 'taste' of one person over the other
* Damakku Damakku dam kind of settled nicely on the ears, and I might have liked that song specifically for the chorus
* Some choral parts really rankle, though I cant remember any offhand now
* I can empathise with Jaiganes' views on pee pee thottu nakku :-) . Still an Emanuel Fernandez or an Andre Aquilani or a John Cister shouldnt find a pee pee as embarassing as self-conscious middle class tamil boys I guess. I dont see a problem there of being embarassed in front of americans,
* OTOH, where I have an issue, and where I think irir123 is coming from(and which has been missed by those opposed to his POV), is having a chorus at all in some songs. My objection to Manjal Malarae is not that the chorus is "pee pee" but having that chorus itself! I think these soundtrack requirements do bring the corresponding album down a wee bit, if not more.
irir123, correct me if I am wrong, I think thats what your point is that - sometimes, the chorus inserted for soundtrack purposes is embarassing when the rest of the song dazzles with orchestral brilliance. If this is your objection, I can empathise with that too.

The extent of my problems here can be gauged from the fact that purely as an album, I'd prefer Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu not to have an "thlo thlo thlo thlo thlothathlo" in the prelude but then I cant imagine that song now without that chorus.

Ok, I think I am back to square one and I really dont have a side to take here...make what you can of this post!

[ananth222]

tats why i wonder if IR writes a score thats so intricate so that there is no space to accomodate such stuff, and then there are scores, in which he introduces these 'filler' words not coz of lack of imagination, but lack of effort ?!
what abt the "riaaaa riaaa" part in chandiranum suriyanum? just absolutely fabulous - that song captures the lofty dreams of a village guy perfect to a T!! No lack of effort or imagination there! My take on the whole thing is that there is a place for these things. Ok, maybe he misused it in some places - just as he has misused other instruments/fills/repeated interludes/poor lyrics/etc. in many songs. there is no need to nitpick about this particular aspect. (I HATE "song for soul" from NBW though many ppl consider it their fav of the album... but that falsetto voice thing and the over repeated theme is just tiring.)

[kiru]

..My take on the whole thing is that there is a place for these things. Ok, maybe he misused it in some places - just as he has misused other instruments/fills/repeated interludes/poor lyrics/etc. in many songs. there is no need to nitpick about this particular aspect. (I HATE "song for soul" from NBW though many ppl consider it their fav of the album... but that falsetto voice thing and the over repeated theme is just tiring.)
Reasonable..on a similar vein ..I dont like IR talking in TIS .."oh idhu dhaan symphony orchestravaa .."
The issue is IR is the bottleneck to his recognition. Plum (and maybe Jaiganes earlier) ..clearly distinguish between album and soundtrack. Atleast these days you can have two versions..Still PAA has Amitabh's talking and many good tunes are mercilessly recorded to a very few minutes. Many years ago fans here were planning on re-recording or re-mixing his earlier classics..but the whole of late 90s and early 00s it was all crappy synths..Does he not value his own work ? If film songs are not serious enough for him what else is he creating ?

[rprasad]

I think one should understand the composing music whether songs/bgm is not an exact science or like any other job where you follow the steps and the final output is what you had envisoned before. Music is art and is dependent on so many factors like inspiration, mood, and other factors any of which could contribute to great music or otherwise. IR's style is so different and so instinctive that he himself cannot envision the final song when he starts composing it in some cases. Like he already said in numerous interviews, numerous thought/ideas run thru his brain and by the time he starts writing down the notes those ideas might be replaced by some other ideas and so on. IR's style of writing notes has this effect.
Kiru, film songs are serious for him when presented with a good story/director or personnel. People who discuss ideas with IR and do not just accept whatever he composes in half hour. for such cases if they are lucky and IR is in a good mood a Chinna Thambi results otherwise some other dud will result. Now i have heard people saying that he should do complete justice to his work since he gets paid to do so. Well this is not your 9-5 job and moreover are these directors themselves creating anything new/good movies? But People expect IR to experiment and come up with innovative stuff for songs/music. Well if the director is so committed to his movie he/she will provide an environment for IR to come up with a great score. In the absence of it whatever IR comesup with during the time of composing will be the result, sometimes good sometimes not so good. We are lucky that IR' talent sometimes covers up dud filmakers and movies.
Now coming to the use of chorus/other hooks/phrases in IR's songs, i agree with Ananth but i would phrase it differently. Lets not judge IR by saying he misused those for one thing he knows more about that stuff than we do, but did he realize that those phrases in those songs did not sound goood at the time of composing? probably not, and again its upto the director/producer to decide if the songs sounds good with those or not. So some ended up not sounding good for some people while some worked brilliantly. The fact the composer is not the ultimate audience to his composition so not all his ideas work out being loved by all. So lets leave it at that and celebrate 2009 as a brilliant year for IR who contines to give us joy even after so many years.
I also wonder has any other composer apart from IR traversed such different generations of music lovers and even today captivates the people with his music?

[rprasad]

Forgot to address the recognition factor for IR. Well the fact is IR makes film songs which have all the elements typical to an Indian film song. Now because IR dazzles with his orchestral brilliance some of us want to see that in full and not mixed in with typical fimy hooks/phrases. Well not all movies/directors give him an opportunity to do so. and he is not really concerned about global recognition and stuff. But we do have sufficent number of albums which are worthy of being in that category of unadulaterated brilliant orchestral music along with tunes.
But again lets remember that the common masses enjoy the IR songs with those hooks and phrases as well and they make up the majority and not use who want to intellectually analyze his music.

[irir123]

I dont know where I stand in this debate but I can list down some individual thoughts which I have never correlated before to have a firm opinion on this weird words issue
* Absolutely hated jaanguchakku when it came out, and thought - without the helpful influences of Charus and Pappus - that it sucked. Could never reconcile it with the rest of the song. In retrospect, it probably had to be some weird chorus given the situation/picturisation and am not sure what other chorus would have left me happy. So, there, it is just 'taste' of one person over the other
* Damakku Damakku dam kind of settled nicely on the ears, and I might have liked that song specifically for the chorus
* Some choral parts really rankle, though I cant remember any offhand now
* I can empathise with Jaiganes' views on pee pee thottu nakku :-) . Still an Emanuel Fernandez or an Andre Aquilani or a John Cister shouldnt find a pee pee as embarassing as self-conscious middle class tamil boys I guess. I dont see a problem there of being embarassed in front of americans,
* OTOH, where I have an issue, and where I think irir123 is coming from(and which has been missed by those opposed to his POV), is having a chorus at all in some songs. My objection to Manjal Malarae is not that the chorus is "pee pee" but having that chorus itself! I think these soundtrack requirements do bring the corresponding album down a wee bit, if not more.
irir123, correct me if I am wrong, I think thats what your point is that - sometimes, the chorus inserted for soundtrack purposes is embarassing when the rest of the song dazzles with orchestral brilliance. If this is your objection, I can empathise with that too.

The extent of my problems here can be gauged from the fact that purely as an album, I'd prefer Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu not to have an "thlo thlo thlo thlo thlothathlo" in the prelude but then I cant imagine that song now without that chorus.

Ok, I think I am back to square one and I really dont have a side to take here...make what you can of this post!

Plum - :clap: :exactly: you nailed it exactly!

why such chorus ? if IR had desired, he cud have used a combo of flute (with other wind instruments), and anything else, but the chorus in, say, "kukukoo kokila raavey" - its so nauseating to hear that interlude that i often fast fwd the interlude - its nothing to do with the 'pee pee' specific fillers, as you said, its the overall question of why these fillers, when the track wud have been more wholesome without them ?

[Plum]

Again, I am not questioning "Why Chorus" there. It is just that I would have preferred instrumental pieces there. Clearly, in most cases, we agree that there is a "soundtrack" reason for having the chorus - but the question is is there a musical reason as well? Only Raja can answer that.

Also, rprasad's perspective on spontaneity is also interesting and plausible.

rprasad, your views on 'professionalism' are spot on - a fitting answer to over-zealous professional types(so professional that they are in the hub during office time) questioning his ethics that he takes money and produces sub-par stuff. This is a creative art, and a lot of factors determine the output - no way you can say that he deliberately underperforms. The fact that many duds got great music is proof that output is not related to great story/scenario/director alone - it is a random function of various factors hence we cant really comment much on professionalism here.

[irir123]

Forgot to address the recognition factor for IR. Well the fact is IR makes film songs which have all the elements typical to an Indian film song. Now because IR dazzles with his orchestral brilliance some of us want to see that in full and not mixed in with typical fimy hooks/phrases. Well not all movies/directors give him an opportunity to do so. and he is not really concerned about global recognition and stuff. But we do have sufficent number of albums which are worthy of being in that category of unadulaterated brilliant orchestral music along with tunes.
But again lets remember that the common masses enjoy the IR songs with those hooks and phrases as well and they make up the majority and not use who want to intellectually analyze his music.

do you want to hear more of IR in the near/faroff future ?? do you want him to sustain this level of energy next few years ??

well, then, there is one sureshot way of making it all happen - IR gets the recognition - howsoever we may live in self-denial (about him not wanting recognition), for a man who has dedicated his entire life to music, the least he wud want his true/genuine recognition - thats what will motivate him - this happened in 2004, when massimo simonini who had listened to IR's music by chance, approached IR at prasad studios and sang a few tunes (including 'putham puthu kaalai'!) and the result ? the italy tour happened and we got to hear the orchestral version of the 'thumbi vaa' score as well as the 3-note composition - if a massimo had not appreciated IR and expressed his desire to invite IR to italy, none of this wud have happened

only with recognition, (the right kind of) ppl (with a desire to get the best out of him, like balki or massimo) gonna flock to him with projects - or else, 2010 onwards its gonna be dry

[rprasad]

Well IRIR, here we go again that song in Sitara is one of my all time fav, precisely due to the vocals and the sounds. I think Rajasaranam had already talked about the Vamsi, IR combination and how they like to experiment with voices so i will not rehash it again. Maybe for some other songs such phrases could have been avoided? ofcourse but as i said some experiments work and some do not. SO lets leave it at that.

As for your point on his recognition, yes i do want to keep listening to IR's music for years to come. But that does not mean that by suddenly projecting IR a little more would result in him getting good projects. Who would have thought 2009 would be such a good year for IR. Willl 2010 be a lean year as far as project go ? probably but that never has dampened his energy before. He is at a stage in his career where he does music for those who come to him. Now i do agree that for his talent he ought to have got more accolades/recognition.But hey certain things are what they are. North India is atleast getting some sample of IR's genius now so better late than never. As far projecting him to international audience , he is already well known in western classical circles as far as others that is not going to happen just by presenting them with his albums. I for one would prefer a well made documentry kind of film focussing on IR's talents/achievements with people involved with IR talking about his skill. That would really help.

[irir123]

As far projecting him to international audience , he is already well known in western classical circles as far as others that is not going to happen just by presenting them with his albums. I for one would prefer a well made documentry kind of film focussing on IR's talents/achievements with people involved with IR talking about his skill. That would really help.

outside of India and maybe Hungary/UK, not a soul in the western classical music circles have heard of him! take it from me, I have interacted with 'n' no of orchestras here in the US, and not one of them have heard of him! its a hard fact, but true

the only Indian musicians they are familiar with are Pt. Ravi Shankar (for his association with George Harrison and the beatles and his scores for Gandhi etc) and Zubin Mehta - most ethnomusicologists know abt Ustad Zakir Hussain, and film music circles ppl identify India with ARR (post-oscars) and bollywood film music, period! pop music lovers mention Norah Jones (though she is more american than indian) and offbeat music listeners have even heard of susheela raman, but NOT IR!

very rarely do ethnomusicologists like Zoe Sherenian, or another UCLA person are familiar with IR! and thats abt it!

and with PAA, IR's music is being generically referred to as bollywood music, while the entire focus is on Bachhan's role as a 13-year old!

[K]

one help Sir KSMS Song theriyum, Poraada daa from Alaiosai? unga kitta iruntha pls share. Thank u.

Here
http://www.mediafire.com/?tjamwyfdx4v


thank u once again Sir

[rprasad]

IRIR, i am well aware of the facts. there is no hard fact. I dont know why u think IR should be known by everyone in music industry.One is known based on the works they do, and IR only did a few so his reach is small only. maybe if his symphony was released he would have gained more recognition but that did not happen for various reasons. He probably got discouraged by that a lot and stopped.He is just not that type of person who strives to get global recognition given his background and nature. Maybe if he had come up in this era things would have been different. Lets face it composing for south indian films will not get him any global recognition and he is not into bollywood except for few projects. and he is not into collaborations with foreign artists( he likes to write everything himself) which is another sure fire way of getting global recongnition. lets not keep lamenting about this. Lets hope he has time to come up with more non film albums. Maybe marketing his BGM's would be a better idea than trying to mrket his songs which are more ethnic than generic.

[raagas]

Reasonable..on a similar vein ..I dont like IR talking in TIS .."oh idhu dhaan symphony orchestravaa .."

Ah i hated it so much. I hated it at 2 levels. At a primary level, i felt that monologue wasnt nice as such.He could have simply started the song.

secondly, I felt like yelling at him - "What the hell man!!! you have been doing 'Symphony' styled music pieces since 25 damn years.. you excel in that.. and now you ask that stupid innocent question!!what kind of weird PJ (poor joke) is that..." :)

[eagle]

Infact that is the main reason ARR succeded so quickly in the North since his tunes/music are more generic in nature with no strong cultural influences of a region or a language. I am quoting ARR as an example only and not saying his music is bad or anything. so please do not create an issue out of this.

I beg to differ initially that might have been the case, listen to the songs in Delhi6 he sounds more like a composer from north, a junoon or strings scoring for films. But IR never seems to come up with something like that. no... i am not i am finding fault . Simply saying you can find traces of his south indian origins upto the songs in PAA.

[ezy0265]

-deleted-

[Hulkster]

ezy, spiderman 3yil spidermanukku yeppadi venom pugunthu mareenaaro neenga thalaivarakku venom pugunthu mareena maathiri pesurunga. Cool down. :D


I think this is a frequently touched upon issue which is never ending just like IR vs ARR which is doomed to be on until the end of time. Thalaivar's style of composing generically has a very unique pattern which moulds itself into the films main storyline. I dunt think you can necessarily claim it as south indianish(I dunt think anybody would call ennadi meenakshi and sing swing as south indianish upon hearing).

The thing about thalaivar is unless the setting calls for a very genre-specific composition, the instances of any instruments or orchestration related to that situation is going to be blended in with thalaivar's main orchestration. PAA's mudi mudi might not sound "hindish" but when you see according to that situation you will realise that the song with its orchestration is a perfect fit for that movie. Thalaivar cant score a totally hindish song or any other language for that matter just for the sake of composing it. Situations should lend credence to this before he can arrive at such a composition.

[eagle]

I for one would prefer a well made documentry kind of film focussing on IR's talents/achievements with people involved with IR talking about his skill. That would really help.

Its high time someone does that... thats the only way to get a true global recognition for IR which he truly deserves. May be who knows he may get life time achievement Oscar :D ......

[Hulkster]

Another thing about thalaivar's use of "unpleasant sounds" in certain songs and unnecessary dialogues in albums like TIS. Thalaivar himself has stated he is not making TIS for award scoring purposes and has been like that ever since he entered the industry. Its a irreversible characteristic and something that i prefer as well. The reason why i mention this, is all these nitpicks about chorus and dialogues seem to be born out of fustration that it may not be accepted by foreign audiences and reduce his chances for recognition etc.

Thalaivar's Nothing But Wind's main track is the answer for all this choruses he uses. He is deeply interested in how natural sounds(anything with the exception of instruments) actually have music within them and his theory that they we enjoy them without realising them. It is within this border that he explores the usage of the choruses and natural sounds within a composition. And after listening to Chan Channare for atleast three times, the chorus mystically sounds like how thalaivar would create a counterpoint with instruments within a prelude. They do blend in perfectly.

If you want to bring forward thalaivar's tracks to new audiences, then you should bring forward his theory and style of thinking. Just choosing a composition that sounds nice to you randomly might defeat the whole purpose of this man. Anyway the orchestration of the man is diverse that people are bound to be amazed by what he has done.

[rajasaranam]

Again, I am not questioning "Why Chorus" there. It is just that I would have preferred instrumental pieces there. Clearly, in most cases, we agree that there is a "soundtrack" reason for having the chorus - but the question is is there a musical reason as well? Only Raja can answer that.



Excerpt From the Frontline 1987 Interview :

Q : Then how do you define music?

A: Music is nothing but sound. There is music in the bark of the dog. There is music in the walk of every human being. Music is not a subject to be discussed. It has to be experienced. The universe is one which has its own rhythm pattern, and it goes on in a cyclic fashion without losing its equilibrium. Similarly,sound is ultimately a solitary note. It is not ascending. It is not descending. It is not vertical. Nor is it sinusoidal. It is dynamic. Yet this dynamism defies our general perception. We human beings have lots of limitations. We are able to perceive only the sounds within the audible frequency. There are notes above and below that. We forget them. Man has fragmented this solitary note into seven notes of the octave.Listen to the howl of the dog. Doesn't it have a swara prashta. Sa Re Ga.(Ilaiyaraaja sings and shows the similarity) There is no difference between the howl of the dog and the songs of vidwans. Actually, I have written a script in which i have recorded in what raga a dog barks on various occasions. This proves my theory - music is nothing but sound.

[Shankar.P]

naama irukkurathu IR forum-thaana? santhegama irukku! aalalukku muthugukku pinnaadi kaththiyoda alaiyura maathiri oru feeling. what he has done in the past 30+ yrs is more than enough to garner a minimum of 1000 oscars.

[Sureshs65]

irir123,

I understand your POV on chorus and the weird sounds though I may not agree on many of the examples. 'jhanku chakku' may sound odd but when I see someone sing this song in the music competition, the whole audience sing along when this phrase appears. So Raja did know the pulse of the audience when he composed that phrase. (By the way, the most recognizable phrase in all of TFM, though not by Raja, is 'pee pee pee dum dum dum pee pee pee dum dum dum, pee pee pee dum dum dum dum dum'. No marks for guess where it appears :) )

The only point which I do not agree at all with your argument is the lack of effort stuff. I do not find this as a plausible argument for Raja using the chorus and I completely disagree here. I base this on what Raja has done all the time. When he can so easily write out material (in BGM) for even the most mundane of situations, why should it be 'difficult' for him to conceive or execute an instrumental in place of chorus. Has he even done that in BGM? I don't think so. So, I would go with rprasad's argument that not everything may turn out to our satisfaction. When Raja is using 'weird' sounds, he knows what he is doing and why he is using them. We may disagree on the effectiveness but I don't think we can accuse him of laziness.

[app_engine]

என்னது, அந்திமழை பொழிகிறது பாட்டுல வர கோரஸ் அனாவசியமா? நான் இந்த ஆட்டத்துக்கு இல்ல :-)

நமக்கெல்லாம் அந்த சத்தம் கேட்டவுடனே ரோமாஞ்சம் தாங்க! அதே மாதிரி மடை திறந்து பாட்டின் ரெண்டாமத்து இன்டர்லூடில் வரும் கோரஸ் கேக்கும் போது வானத்தில் பறக்குற ஃபீலிங் வருமுங்க!
(திரையில் கும்பலா அரைகுறை ஆடைப்பெண்கள் வராத பட்சத்தில் எல்லாப்பாட்டுக்குமே கோரஸ் இருந்தாலும் நல்லது தான், என் கருத்துப்படி :D )

[ezy0265]

-deleted-

[jaiganes]

ezy boy take it easy.
unarchigala kattupaduthunga. ellaame karuththu dhaan. adhai solravanga ellarume raasappuvin parama visirigal dhaan. dhairyamaa solraangalennu sandhosha padunga, mudinjaa unga pangukku aadhara poorvamaa pesunga. podhuppadayaa animals pera ellaam sollaadheenga. idhu enna 'Kazhaga koottamaa?'
naagareegamnu onnu irukkulla?

[ananth222]

app_engine....vidunga....

kazhuthaikku theriyumaa karpooranai vaasam....athunga paattukku varuthunga etho athunga manasukku pattatha mennuttu poguthunga.....freeya vidunga
don't forget, in "aattukutti muttai ittu" IR cleverly used donkey braying sound also. so the correct phrase is "karpooraththukku (IR'ku) theriyum kazhudhaiyin vaasanai" so who are we to judge him on that? ;)

[app_engine]

mudhi-mudhi singer Shilpa Rao on IR :

"He is basically a very chilled out guy" :-)

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/working-with-ilaiyaraaja-was-the-high-point-of-my-career-shilpa-rao_100289403.html#ixzz0Zm39Rzus

[sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar]

in the movie version, anthi mazhai song starts with the chorus singing of the kids and then miruthangam, then the another "ho ho ho ho hohohooo " chorus which ome pple here are saying needless. Even i too agree with it! somehow that doesnt merge with the song. IR wud have used alternatives.

but thts my ( and few other's) feelings. rajavai kadavulaa kumbidura naanga, avar isayil ippadi chinna chinna nollai solluvom. athunaala we dont become ass! silarukku ithu pidikkalaam, silarukku ithu pidikkaamal pogalaam. ithayellaam vechi engalai mudivu panna koodaathu!

[Sureshs65]

ananth,

A nice twist in the tale :lol:

OK guys, I think we have all expressed ourselves quite succinctly about the chorus portions. Let's not beat this dead horse (or is it a dead ass) any further and move forward by discussing about these interesting links.

Here are a couple of interesting links. I took this from a post of Dr. Vijay of Ilaiyaraja Yahoo Group

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5o4Ri5BL_o : Raja's speech at the 'Om Shanthi' music release

http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=5025 : Jeyamohan's response about Raja's music. (We have read parts of this earlier.)

[cry_sandiego]

[tscii:aa0d24c857]‘கண்ணில் பார்வை’ பாட்டு இருந்திருந்தால் அம்சவல்லியின் தனிப்பட்ட வாழ்க்கையும் அந்தரங்கமான ஆசைகளும் பதிவாகி படத்தின் உச்சகட்டம் இன்னும் வலுவாக அமைந்திருக்கும் என்பது என் எண்ணம்.

Appadi Podu !! Well Said.. What a song !!

By the way as we come to the close of the year .. my top 4 songs for 2009 are Kannil Paarvai / Aadhi usha/ Kunnathe/Mudi Mudi ..

Happy holidays/New year everyone !

Cheers
MSK[/tscii:aa0d24c857]

[irir123]

Excerpt From the Frontline 1987 Interview :

Q : Then how do you define music?

A: Music is nothing but sound. There is music in the bark of the dog. There is music in the walk of every human being. Music is not a subject to be discussed. It has to be experienced. The universe is one which has its own rhythm pattern, and it goes on in a cyclic fashion without losing its equilibrium. Similarly,sound is ultimately a solitary note. It is not ascending. It is not descending. It is not vertical. Nor is it sinusoidal. It is dynamic. Yet this dynamism defies our general perception. We human beings have lots of limitations. We are able to perceive only the sounds within the audible frequency. There are notes above and below that. We forget them. Man has fragmented this solitary note into seven notes of the octave.Listen to the howl of the dog. Doesn't it have a swara prashta. Sa Re Ga.(Ilaiyaraaja sings and shows the similarity) There is no difference between the howl of the dog and the songs of vidwans. Actually, I have written a script in which i have recorded in what raga a dog barks on various occasions. This proves my theory - music is nothing but sound.

depending on how you look at it, the above are either the ramblings of a man afflicted with bipolar disorder, or, the deliberate mischievous banter of a man who is teasing his interviewer with mystical stuff (over which noone dare ask a question) - this is my humble opinion - of course, how IR answers a particular question or does not, has nothing to do with his genius, his ability to compose, but instead of focussing on his creative methodology, such interviews focusses on the personality more - the fault i think perhaps lies with the interviewer who ought to have framed his questions differently - the reason i say is this is coz, in other interviews when asked sensible questions, IR gives very down-to-earth sensible answers

[Sureshs65]

I hadn't seen the youtube clip before I posted the link here. Hilarious clip. What sense of humor. This is Raja at his best. Full at ease and talks casually.

BTW, he also has something to say about using non words in chorus here :) Watch this clip without fail.

The picturization of 'Om Shanthi' looks quite good. Let's hope the movie does well.

[Saagar]

Radio-One 94.3 Top 13 songs

1.Mudi Mudi-Paa
2.All Izz Well-3 Idiots.
3.Zoobi zoobi-3 Idiots
4.Tum Mile-Tum Mile
5.Tera Hone-Ajab prem
6.Shukraan allah-Kurbaan
7.Rishte Naate-De dana dan
8.Prem Ki Nayya-Ajab Prem
9.Pocket mein Rocket-Rocket Singh
10.Main Tera -Ajab prem
11.Paisa-De Dana Dan
12.Mann Ka Radio-Radio
13.Man Ko-London Dreams.

[irir123]

ananth,

A nice twist in the tale :lol:

OK guys, I think we have all expressed ourselves quite succinctly about the chorus portions. Let's not beat this dead horse (or is it a dead ass) any further and move forward by discussing about these interesting links.

Here are a couple of interesting links. I took this from a post of Dr. Vijay of Ilaiyaraja Yahoo Group

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5o4Ri5BL_o : Raja's speech at the 'Om Shanthi' music release

http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=5025 : Jeyamohan's response about Raja's music. (We have read parts of this earlier.)

interesting! so, it looks like lots go behind-the-scenes and if what IR says abt 'thamthana' is true, then perhaps, the 'jangu chakkus' 'ding dangs' were also a combination of both the directors' request/insistence as well as the demand of the situation ?? and IR is not being given a free hand at all ?? interesting

[Plum]

I have seen Malayalam interviews of Raja where he is, as Shilpa Rao observed from her experience, "very very chilled out". Somehow, he seems to have a comfort factor with mallus - koduthu vechavanga keralthAr.

Indha outlook, S Anand, Tamizh pahtirigagiaLukku ellAM "isainA enna, adhu kuraiikkira naayila irukku, kathura kozhandhaila irukku"-nu response varudhu. I am inclined to go with irir123 on this - even if we accept what he says there as his ultimate view, it still cannot be a 'catch-all" answer for all specific questions we have on his music.
I, for one, would love to hear from him on how exactly and why exactly he conceived a "jaangu chakku". I strongly believe there is a musical reason behind it - but we are not getting it from him.
An autobiography from him is imperative.

Who will bell the cat? Someone must. Time is running out....

[Sanjeevi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlhu7nyf53o&feature=related

Nenu nenuka song (from 1:35) sounds quite different in this video with "Bass thookal" and it is good to listen and watch :)

[rprasad]

IR has a very good realtionship with most of the Telugu producers/directors with whom he worked in the past. Producer Ashwini Dutt(Om shanthi is directed by his daughter i think) has worked with IR for all his movies in the past till about 1992 all of them directed by Raghavendra Rao. Most of them had good music in them especially the Chiranjeevi movies.
Kodhanda Ram Reddy has worked a number of movies with IR and again most of them involved Chiranjeevi and their combination has some fabulous songs. Check out their movie Rakshasudu an 1986 movie i think- brilliant songs ahead of its time. another one would be Kondaveeti Donga in 1990's another fabulous score.
Telugu film industry is lucky in that IR seems to hold them in such high respect and even attends their functions. I think he also attended the Mallepoovu audio function. While he rarely attends any Tamil audio release functions. Its amazing that so many different directors combination with IR in telugu produced such different and lovely music. Makes me nostalgic when i think back about those days. Things have changed so much as far as the music composers field is concerned but IR still keeps going strong. We should be thankful for that.

[Plum]

BTW, watched Malleppoovvu, of all places, while flying.Third Gradekum keezhE. One of the rare movies where even Raja couldnt do anything with the material given to him. The BGM is completely forgettable - not to blame him, there is hardly anything he could have done with that kind of material - I remember there were some comments which he made in Malleppovu function which made a mild flutter at that time. Does anyone remember what it is? If it was something disparaging about the director of this movie, then I can empathise with him - he should be applauded for speaking out the truth if he did say that.

[writeface]

Plum,

But Mallepoovu has wonderful songs.. Chandamama, chirugaali (the interlude is so unlike his other interludes), and the dreamy mallEpoovulO makaranthamaa... What a waste!

irir123,

>>the above are either the ramblings of a man afflicted with bipolar disorder<<

Most artists have certain degree of BPD. It is not uncommon, as you may already know.

The problem with the whole discussion about the choice of chorus etc.. is not taking into consideration how an artist works.

I am not a musician, but I can relate to a creative mind. I have always wondered if IR writes music the way a poet writes a poem. In other words, a poem (many times fully formed) comes to poet- he or she doesn't set out to build a poem by placing lines that work and that don't. What I am trying to say is, it is driven by intuition and not by choice or logic. That may also explain inconsistencies in his work.

Gokul.

[jaiganes]

Plum,

But Mallepoovu has wonderful songs.. Chandamama, chirugaali (the interlude is so unlike his other interludes), and the dreamy mallEpoovulO makaranthamaa... What a waste!

irir123,

>>the above are either the ramblings of a man afflicted with bipolar disorder<<

Most artists have certain degree of BPD. It is not uncommon, as you may already know.

The problem with the whole discussion about the choice of chorus etc.. is not taking into consideration how an artist works.

I am not a musician, but I can relate to a creative mind. I have always wondered if IR writes music the way a poet writes a poem. In other words, a poem (many times fully formed) comes to poet- he or she doesn't set out to build a poem by placing lines that work and that don't. What I am trying to say is, it is driven by intuition and not by choice or logic. That may also explain inconsistencies in his work.

Gokul.

No. IRIR is referring to the fact that 'ok chorus added initially' . now why not revisit that portion and update with better lude or chorus or words?
Only IR can answer IRIR's koschans.

[Sureshs65]

Yes Gokul. 'Mallepoovu' was a wonderful album with some very melodious songs. I heard that the movie was thrash. Now Plum has confirmed it. They tried to remake an Iranian movie and made a mess of it. The songs were really wasted on that movie.

[Bala (Karthik)]

koschans.
:rotfl2:

[vel]

thumburu,

With due respects to you, I think you sometimes occupy a very high pedestal and pass comments as if they are the absolute final words about anything. We can disagree on whether the tune was good or the lyrics were better but to call 'adiushas' as a pedestrian tune is sheer arrogance. (I personally do not think the lyrics of 'adiushas' are outstanding to the extent that the tune becomes pedestrian. I don't want to get into a lyrics vs tune debate here since I have equal respect for ONV and Raja.)



nalla sonneenga....Not only this DFer, but many others do this, in the name of 'karuthu sudhandhiram'.....a nice post from you suresh. I liked the way you have summed it up.

[Hulkster]

Thalaivar's speech in Om Shanti Om with translation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5o4Ri5BL_o

Courtesy of Orkut Ramesh and IR Yahoo Groups

[vel]

chinna polike's first line is lovely corollary of the old classic 'kaatru veliyidai kannamma, undhan kadhalai enni thavikindraen..

[raagas]

China Polike.... The more I am loving it... the more I am banging my table here, in anger about that singer and pronunciation!Pch! if only someone like Karthik or anyone else sang it.

[thumburu]

Suryakanthi , I must admit is not as impressive as PremKahani . It took many listens to get a hang of it [ CD Vaangiyaachu . so vera vazhi? ] . One reason could be the mushy romance in PremKahani drew lush music from IR. "Edaya baagilu" stands out . It is so free flowing that gives me a gliding , floating feel like "uravenum pudhiya vaanil" or "yaarum thodaadha" of Ajantha. Kunal Ganjanwala's voice is unique and suits the song. Lovely piano notes when Shreya croons "without u...." is like the soft rock english songs of the 60's . The "hahahaha" humming not withstanding, "swalpa soundu" is a big turn off owing to the singer. She is rampant in recent kannada songs and is the major reason for me to abhor Kannada FM channels. And to hear her in Raja's music is the height of grrrrrrrr !!! Chan chanare - I have no issues with changu chikku or danga dingu in tis particular song. I love the second bgm and charanam portions of this song. Song takes an interesting turn midway in the charanam before the chorus sings which is Raja's hand woven magic. "mouni naanu" lacks freshness and reminds us of various old Raja's songs like "naaLum en manam", "asalem gurthukuraadhunaa" of Anthapuram fame. That "jaikara hagora" is straight out of Ramarajan's late 80's with nothing new

[vel]

China Polike.... The more I am loving it... the more I am banging my table here, in anger about that singer and pronunciation!Pch! if only someone like Karthik or anyone else sang it.

raagas, language theriyaadhu, so no problems on pronunciation front :)

[raagas]

hehehe Vel... You are lucky... Thts the way i enjoy tamil songs... but then the saving grace in the case if a tamil song is that the song i like might have shreya ghoshal as singer, whose voice is very good. In the case of Chinna Polike, thats not the case.. Pch! such a nice composition.. but...

[Hulkster]

A discussion on Pankaj Kapur's Mausam

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1279047&TPN=2

Courtesy of IR Yahoo Groups - Sri Kumar

Thandavakone' Audio Releasing Soon, Posted in Dinathanthi ADS

Courtesy of IR Orkut Comm - HeartA

[Shankar]

>>>>>
ilayaraja is a legend he's considered equivalent to AR rehman so it's good thing he's doign music for it
<<<<<
One comment from the above link...enna kodumai saravaNan idhu??

[Shankar]

>>>>>
I've heard that he is the one and only Indian Music Director, who performed a symphony in London's Royal Bill Harmonic Hall.
<<<<<

vindhyas kku mElE arivu jeevigaLum, arivu maniratnam gaLukkum panjamE illai pOl irukku :)

Bill harmonic was ROFL stuff :)

[pulavar]

Thalaivar's speech in Om Shanti Om with translation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5o4Ri5BL_o

Courtesy of Orkut Ramesh and IR Yahoo Groups

I don't understand Telugu but I can understand their admiration for the great man.

[nanchil_guy]

A discussion on Pankaj Kapur's Mausam

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1279047&TPN=2



Its really amazing and sad at the same time that how can Northies don't know anything about IR even after hits like Sadma, Appu Raja, Hey Ram and Cheeni gum!!

Now irir123's words should make sense to all of us!!

[nanchil_guy]

A discussion on Pankaj Kapur's Mausam

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1279047&TPN=2



Its really amazing and sad at the same time that how can Northies don't now anything about IR even after hits like Sadma, Appu Raja, Hey Ram and Cheeni gum!!

Now irir123's words should make sense to all of us!!

Apparently all of 'em who posted there seem to be either teens or in their early 20's, so we can accept their negligence. Nonetheless it will be really sad if this is the case with most of the NI.

[Saagar]

Listening to gali-mudi, one thing that stikes is that,the similarity to "Ninnokori" is minimum in this number. In fact if this was the only song in the album, the similarity to Ninnukori (that is picked up in Mudi Mudi) may not have struck at all.

[kameshratnam]

om shanthi om download link..found it in the net

http://www.mediafire.com/?tzrqqjmzazm

:( :( :( Sorry to all: I buy only original cds but this one is too much..i cannot find it anywhere

[Plum]

A discussion on Pankaj Kapur's Mausam

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1279047&TPN=2



Its really amazing and sad at the same time that how can Northies don't now anything about IR even after hits like Sadma, Appu Raja, Hey Ram and Cheeni gum!!

Now irir123's words should make sense to all of us!!

Apparently all of 'em who posted there seem to be either teens or in their early 20's, so we can accept their negligence. Nonetheless it will be really sad if this is the case with most of the NI.

Yes, I am fine with this bunch which atleast looks at IR as a genius whom they dont know much about. It is the Nadeem Shravan and Kumar Sanu fans that I dread :-)

Looka t one of the posts there:

Originally posted by RiyaK09


Originally posted by -Mannu-

Is it true!? I've heard that he is the one and only Indian Music Director, who performed a symphony in London's Royal Bill Harmonic Hall.


Woah woah, foreal?

Ok wow, I bow down to Pankaj's intelligence, and of course Ilu's too.



I love how you gave him a nickname, and you've only just heard about him


I say, these guys must be encouraged rather than dissed, bil harmonic(:lol:) not withstanding.

[Plum]

Posted: 28 October 2009 at 1:57pm | IP Logged
Eeekkk. I love ''surmayee akhiyon mein''. My mom used to sing it as a lori for me.
One more. Case Closed. nAnE en poNnukku idhai thAlAttA use pannala - some random NI lady has.
(ofcourse, en ponnukku thAlattu is synonymous with Laali Laali, adhu vEra vishayam :-) )

[Plum]

>>>>>
ilayaraja is a legend he's considered equivalent to AR rehman so it's good thing he's doign music for it
<<<<<
One comment from the above link...enna kodumai saravaNan idhu??

Shankar, see this


Originally posted by RiyaK09


Nanshr, they're being stupid, lol.

Bluemoon's name is Geetanjli, thats why Mannu was laughing.

The song you just posted, did Rehman get a bit inspired by it? Looks/sounds a bit like Barso Re.



Could be. He was like Rehman's mentor, so maybe Rehman was inspired.

[vel]

om shanthi om download link..found it in the net

http://www.mediafire.com/?tzrqqjmzazm

:( :( :( Sorry to all: I buy only original cds but this one is too much..i cannot find it anywhere

why this is a recurrent issue with you, when you have an easy solution at hand - for example, why not contact star trak of coimbatore and ask new CDs to be couriered to you? i get all new CDs 4-5 days maximum after its released. Instead of always lamenting about not getting new CDs, pls do something practical and simple.

[kameshratnam]

[tscii:9d2230a688]Music director Ilayaraja came out with an interesting information at a function to mark the 75th ‘avatara mahothsavam’ of Sri Jayendra Saraswathi Swamigal of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam, here on Thursday.

Mr. Ilayaraja was one of the five eminent personalities honoured with an award in recognition of their services in different fields, as part of the celebration held at Shrimati Indira Gandhi College for Women in the city.

Mr. Ilayaraja said that it was the Paramacharya of Kanchi Kamakotti Peetam, who directed him to work on a symphony on ‘Tiruvasagam,’ a musical rendering of the Tamil epic.

“I have never divulged this information on any platform so far,” Mr. Ilayaraja said.

Even after concluding his acceptance address, Mr. Ilayaraja could not deny the enthusiastic plea from the audience, particularly a large number of college girls, who pleaded with him to sing a song.

Much to their delight, he rendered his popular number ‘Janani Janani’ from the movie ‘Thai Mookambigai.’

Mr. Ilayaraja divulged yet another information, which, again, he claimed had not disclosed so far. “I was running out of time while composing the tune for the song. I was under hectic pressure from the film producer, who had planned to perform the ‘puja’ for the film the next day with the song,” Mr. Ilayaraja said. Though he had composed a tune, it did not suit much the character in the film - Sri Adi Sankarar.

He said with a chance to have a glimpse of the portrait of Adi Sankarar, he was inspired to compose the tune. Fortunately, the tune was also synonymous with the famous “Bhaja Govindam.”

Mr. Ilayaraja said he was quite astonished when he got a piece of paper from ‘an unknown destination.’ The piece of paper carried the words ‘Bhaja Govindam.’

Mr. Ilayaraja in all humility said that he was still a stranger to the music world but repeatedly stressed he was being blessed by the divine power in the form of ‘Guru.’Sri Jayendra Saraswathi Swamigal conferred the title ‘Isai Gnana Mani.’[/tscii:9d2230a688]

[kameshratnam]

om shanthi om download link..found it in the net

http://www.mediafire.com/?tzrqqjmzazm

:( :( :( Sorry to all: I buy only original cds but this one is too much..i cannot find it anywhere

why this is a recurrent issue with you, when you have an easy solution at hand - for example, why not contact star trak of coimbatore and ask new CDs to be couriered to you? i get all new CDs 4-5 days maximum after its released. Instead of always lamenting about not getting new CDs, pls do something practical and simple.

Recurrent because the issue is not solved at all. Its pathetic that i shd go to stone age of contacting a shop in coimbatore to get all stuff...jokers audio company people are when it comes to raja's music cd availability..

[vigneshram]

Anyone got a copy of the new devotional album "Ramana Saranam Saranam" ? Heard that its available at Ramanashram, Thiruvannamalai.

Songs of "Ramana Maalai", "Guru Ramana Geetham" are never off my iPod playlists and are close to my heart. Very eager to listen to this album.

[vel]

kameshratnam - I think you dont want the issue to be solved. You only prefer mp3 (nogaama nongu thinganumgareenga). If you were genuine in your attempt, you will use every legal way--however stone age method it may be--before jumping to stealing a person's hard effort by giving some nondi saaku / lame excuses. If audio companies who dont distribute properly are jokers, you guys are robbers, aren't you. In that case, atleast you should stop lamenting that you dont get CDs...??

[vel]

vigneshram, you will get it only in ramanashram, thiruvannamalai. I was lucky enough to get a copy from dr.sridhar of IR Yahoo groups, who had originally broken the news on the album being sold in ramanashram.
:)

[irir123]

kameshratnam - I think you dont want the issue to be solved. You only prefer mp3 (nogaama nongu thinganumgareenga). If you were genuine in your attempt, you will use every legal way--however stone age method it may be--before jumping to stealing a person's hard effort by giving some nondi saaku / lame excuses. If audio companies who dont distribute properly are jokers, you guys are robbers, aren't you. In that case, atleast you should stop lamenting that you dont get CDs...??

vel - in this aspect, i think we shd be fair and just in looking at the issue - at least in India paravaayillai situation

step outside - you have no idea how difficult its to get IR's new/old albums - every tom, d*ck, harry, kuppan, suppan albums are available in Barnes n Noble, Amazon or iTUNES or any other major/ minor music out let

even PAA was put in iTUNES, ONLY, i repeat, ONLY after i sent several emails to T-Series guys asking them for the CD availability online!!

the situation is that pathetic - i dont think any other composer's output is handled in such an unprofessional manner - its simply not correct to blame music-lovers for not getting the CDs easily available for purchase

for every album, cassette/audio company kitta thongarathhukku, engalukku enna thalai ezhuthhaa ??

if you look at it that way, you shd stop Raaga.com, Music indiaonline etc for freely streaming every other album new and old

mudhalla avangala niruthhaa sollunga, appuram, ordinary paamarans will stop

[Saagar]

[tscii:3f8c1d1643]Paa to bring in some more…
IndiaGlitz [Monday, December 21, 2009]


The magic of much-acclaimed, ‘Paa’ is not over yet.

Director Balki is adding a few more scenes which were earlier did not find a place n the final version.
Amitabh Bachchan in his blog revealed this. He said “Director Balki wishes to put in three deleted scenes of the film back on to it. And I think we shall be talking to the channels and media about it. One of the refrains that floated by was that they had wished there was more of Auro in the film. Guess Balki heard that one and now wishes to execute it.”

Big B further penned that very soon the fresh scenes will find their way in the film, once the technicalities are over. The legendary star has even asked the readers to vote whether adding the scenes would be a good idea or not.

‘Paa’ is a landmark film by showing Amitabh Bachchan as a 13-yr old progeria patient and Abhishek Bachchan and Vidya Balan playing his parents.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Hope it includes the full versions of the songs - Hope Balki gets to hear!


[/tscii:3f8c1d1643]

[kameshratnam]

Vel,

I purchase only original cds of ilayaraaja. Even for kannada i have got it through a respected member of this group. I didnt know that star trak will help you with all language cds....

I still maintain IR has to get himself involved in marketing and sales of his cds...then only we can get visiblity...

[vel]

irir, you know better about situation in outside India. I am talking about a simple way where kamesh could have got the CDs, instead of pulambifying.

Kamesh, i am happy to note that you buy original CDs. Star trak can get you any language CD. I have got all IR albums up to date from them.

[Sureshs65]

vel,

Can you give the contact details of Star Track? I have generally been able to get all language CDs with the help of friends in this forum. Still it would be nice to check out what all Star Track has.

[vel]

suresh, PM pannitaen - Others who want the contact details can get it from suresh :)

[Hulkster]

Courtesy of Orkut IR Comm Girish R.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91rodqeDQ4A


A foriegner review abt our maestro BGM and OST in PAA

Check this out !!

[irir123]

Courtesy of Orkut IR Comm Girish R.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91rodqeDQ4A


A foriegner review abt our maestro BGM and OST in PAA

Check this out !!


you call that a review ?? it looks more like someone bought a free lunch and beer to one of those millions of unemployed caucasians in the US in return for a staged dumb show calling it a review - just another waste of youtube bandwidth resources

[Shankar.P]

[tscii:18c01e5df0]Paa continues to surprise people and trade and even though at 15 cr cost it has done 55 cr by the 3rd week, their is reluctance in its acceptability. Ha ! It has been a norm with all that I have attempted to achieve. It has been almost as though there must be every effort made to deny and not acknowledge that which must come rightfully towards us. We shall live with it. Have all these years. Will in the years to come.

My love for you remains … steady and with great integrity ..

Amitabh Bachchan[/tscii:18c01e5df0]

[Sanjeevi]

Courtesy of Orkut IR Comm Girish R.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91rodqeDQ4A


A foriegner review abt our maestro BGM and OST in PAA

Check this out !!


you call that a review ?? it looks more like someone bought a free lunch and beer to one of those millions of unemployed caucasians in the US in return for a staged dumb show calling it a review - just another waste of youtube bandwidth resources

yes waste of time :twisted:

[Plum]

[tscii:a30375c0a8]Paa continues to surprise people and trade and even though at 15 cr cost it has done 55 cr by the 3rd week, their is reluctance in its acceptability. Ha ! It has been a norm with all that I have attempted to achieve. It has been almost as though there must be every effort made to deny and not acknowledge that which must come rightfully towards us. We shall live with it. Have all these years. Will in the years to come.

My love for you remains … steady and with great integrity ..

Amitabh Bachchan[/tscii:a30375c0a8]
Idhellam remba overu pachan saar :evil:
I mean, you have received acclaim in india beyond your levels of achievement and ability - wherefrom this siege mentality? That too after watching someone like IR in close quarters - avlo saadhiocha avarae recognition illaama irukkarache, ivaru kulikkalaingaradha tv news-A potta naattula ivarukuu support illainu amitap feel pandradhula arthame illai.

[irir123]

Amitabh Bachchan[/tscii:a1ecce4893]
Idhellam remba overu pachan saar :evil:
I mean, you have received acclaim in india beyond your levels of achievement and ability - wherefrom this siege mentality? That too after watching someone like IR in close quarters - avlo saadhiocha avarae recognition illaama irukkarache, ivaru kulikkalaingaradha tv news-A potta naattula ivarukuu support illainu amitap feel pandradhula arthame illai.[/quote]

adhey adhey! cannnot agree with you more!

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes - when he shd have been busy in honing his creative skills, Bachhan was busy either into politics or doing one masala movie after another ! with due credit to Amitabh for his superstardom, strictly in terms of artistic sophistication, acting prowess, or versatility, Bachan lags behind many of his contemporaries like the late Sanjeev Kumar etc - not withstanding some of his splendid performances including ‘paa’!

many kudos and deeply felt admiration for his stupendously courageous recovery from his ‘coolie’ injury, and his coping up with myasthenia gravis – but i think his lame ’shahenshahs’ and other related run-of-the-mill bollywood masala of so many years, his association with ‘not-so-creative’ ppl in the industry and his choice of films as well as the tangential jump into politics and advt endorsing do not speak well of his professionalism (or lack of it)!

[irir123]

[tscii:4de3ca4080]Plum

adhey adhey! cannnot agree with you more!

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes - his association with ‘not-so-creative’ ppl in the industry and his choice of films as well as the tangential jump into politics and advt endorsing do not speak well of his professionalism (or lack of it)![/tscii:4de3ca4080]

[raagas]

[tscii:043fbcbf4c][quote=Plum]
Amitabh Bachchan

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes [/tscii:043fbcbf4c]

I beg to differ.Do you even know who his favourite composers are?Or his favourite authors?books?His relationship with his co-actors?

He was born to an illustrious poet and was brought up in an extremely intellectual environment.His command over language (Hindi and english)and his knowledge about certain things like literature has always been appreciated. People like us know him only as an actor and agreed he did some of the dumbest films ever. Yet, why do you think some of the best talented people in Indian film Industry such as Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Sanjeev Kumar, Gulzar, Basu Chatterjee, Javed Akhtar etc have good opinion about him. They too know about his needless brush with politics and hopeless choice of films.Still, what makes them praise him.

we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

[Sanjeevi]

is new quote system introduced here?

[nanchil_guy]

[tscii:ca76aaec07][quote=Plum]
Amitabh Bachchan

Bachhan is neither a connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes [/tscii:ca76aaec07]

I beg to differ.Do you even know who his favourite composers are?Or his favourite authors?books?His relationship with his co-actors?

He was born to an illustrious poet and was brought up in an extremely intellectual environment.His command over language (Hindi and english)and his knowledge about certain things like literature has always been appreciated. People like us know him only as an actor and agreed he did some of the dumbest films ever. Yet, why do you think some of the best talented people in Indian film Industry such as Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Sanjeev Kumar, Gulzar, Basu Chatterjee, Javed Akhtar etc have good opinion about him. They too know about his needless brush with politics and hopeless choice of films.Still, what makes them praise him.

we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

Raagas

Why didnt you use the same scale for IR, when you were complaining about him being bit arrogant and you never heard him praising ARR etc?

if it wasnt you, sorry.

[raagas]

Raagas

Why didnt you use the same scale for IR, when you were complaining about him being bit arrogant and you never heard him praising ARR etc?

if it wasnt you, sorry.

Nanchil_guy,

Firstly,I see some gap in the context i cited and what you asked. My comment about AB was about his personal taste and his real personality as such, since "connoisseur of art nor a genuine afficianado of true artistes" line came up.I only meant to say that if someone says his favourite composer is, say, S.D.Burman(for example), or if someone who has likes and has good knowledge about good literature (which is an art), then he (be it AB or anyone) must be having a good flair for art right.I was merely highlighting that aspect, that just because AB did some stupid films etc etc,it doesnt mean he cannot appreciate good art.That, in nut shell was my point.

Coming to your question:
My complaint with IR has always been his rants.This whole talk about synthesizer invasion, or new composers serving popcorn and all that. I somehow never liked that talk. And mind you,I am not questioning the truth in his statement.Its purely subjective and its matter of perspectives.But when IR himself is involved with synthesizers,popcorn etc,i feel he shouldnt be saying that.I have heard few songs in which synth loops were used as-is.Now obviously i wouldnt like it if IR complains about composers using synth loops.Dont you think it would be wise if He: either sticks to his strengths (orchestral music) and then rant about synth invasion (which again is not needed, but still, if it comes naturally to him, because of his love for acoustic music) OR simply use synth also, but without ranting about others.Simple.

My intention is positive: I wish IR steers away from controversies.He has already been misunderstood few times.Why more!He can simply give what he is capable of, without commenting on others. Right?

The above paragraph is written looking at specific datasets such as some of his interviews and some songs.I AM happy with most of his 2009 work, barring few exceptions.

About ARR issue,if i respond to it, this thread would turn into yet another cliche`d discussion on IR-ARR.So,please excuse me.I wouldnt like to kickstart another controversial discussion.

[nanchil_guy]

IR never ranted about synthesizer! The fact is that he is the one who introduced the keybord/synth to TFM. His rant is about the synth/loops overdose and the live orchestarta/composer being replaced by a mere machine!!.

And he explained many a times that he is trying to avoid the use of loops 99% and that 1% also he uses it without being easily picked by the listener.



we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

[raagas]

His rant is about the synth/loops overdose and the live orchestarta/composer being replaced by a mere machine!!.

And he explained many a times that he is trying to avoid the use of loops 99% and that 1% also he uses it without being easily picked by the listener.



we the audience form opinions very quickly.Because we dont know an actor.To understand the real person behind an actor or his true calibre, ask the people who work closely with that actor. This applies not just to AB, but any actor.

Thanks for acknowledging that there are rants in the first place. And when you say 'Overdose', dont you think it us purely subjective.Whats 'over' for one, might not be 'over' for another.Again i have reiterated that I dont wish to contest the degree of truth in his statement.My only point is that such rants are unnecessary, especially when he too uses the loops(less or more is again subjective).I would have subscribed to his rants, with pride, if he never used any loops anytime.Not to forget,his own sons are part of Popcorn lot too.So,why all those rants!

Secondly,I dont form opinions about him quickly.My opinions,whatever they may be,are not based on media articles written by someone, as far as possible.My opinions are based on videos i have seen or the content(his music/focus on saleability etc) i hear or firsthand accounts of people.When this whole forum was going high discussing about recent controversy regarding Malayalam lyrcist, I was silent, because I did not have any firsthand knowledge about what Ilaiyaraaja said or what was the context.Often,a statement when stripped off the context gets a twisted meaning.So,i dont subscribe to that.Lastly,I just try to know perspectives from people, and i make sure that perspectives remain as perspectives, without factualizing them. Recently, I met a very reputed instrumentalist, with whom i had a small discussion on IR's music.I was tempted to share that here,but i refrained because it is just the instrumentalist's perspective and after i put it here, we would get into a "This is right, that is wrong" kind of argument that would lead to nowhere. I gather perspectives, with sources/labels, for my own feed(to know the person more, than from media) :)

[Shankar.P]

aaha kelambittangaiya...kelambittanga...
PAA is doing well in the BO and tops the chart for nearly 4 weeks. That's what I wish to highlight by posting AB's quote from his blog. But, both Nanchilar and Raagas bypassed it and collide head on an unnecessary contro.reminds me of 'kaniyiruppa kaai kavarnthatru'.

[nanchil_guy]

Thats good to know , raagas! just trying to put forward some of my opinoins on that , nothing else, no hard feelings!

as a final note on this , IR had ridculed/made fun of yuvan for this type of composing whenever he shared the podium with him.

Shankar, sorry. it was my bad, i started it.

[nanchil_guy]

aaha kelambittangaiya...kelambittanga...
PAA is doing well in the BO and tops the chart for nearly 4 weeks. That's what I wish to highlight by posting AB's quote from his blog. But, both Nanchilar and Raagas bypassed it and collide head on an unnecessary contro.reminds me of 'kaniyiruppa kaai kavarnthatru'.

In some particular type of fruits like guava, mango etc i like the 'kaai' more than the 'kani'! enna seiya!

[ezy0265]

-deleted-

[mohanraja]

-deleted-

[kiru]

raagas,
IR has explained his stance on synths clearly in the TIS dvd. To translate it into english, it should be used like a "fruit hidden behind a leaf" (this is better said in tamil, probably there is a telugu equivalent).
That said, my understanding, many MDs are building the songs completely out of store bought loops..that is ..the whole texture of the song can be heard somewhere else. They are doing only the tune. This is a different approach to song making. IR for political/diplomatic reasons does not go into that much detail. Actually, in one interview he mentioned the audience whether what they are hearing is completely or check whether they have heard this before. Only in recent songs I have seen IR use loops predominantly..not sure how many have been used "off-the-shelf" and how many are programmed. But he has been adding his own chords/basslines to it.
In essence, the recent trend in composition put IR at an unfair advantage because the songs coming are a total collaboration effort with the loop producers, bass guitarists and singers who are free to improvise and are modifying the tunes by the MDs.
In one interview, a mridangam artist mentioned, IR writes every rhythm syllable.
I hope you understand his point better now.

[jaiganes]

@ezy I hope you must have missed the early days of HCIRF and HCARRF throwing missiles at each other constantly. Sorry buddy you are atleast 5 years late by hub timelines. chill out...
As kiru has pointed out and I am seeing very frequently, the rejuvenated raaja has cracked open a way to use a 'off the shelf loop' in his style - this is very evident in the 'yuvanish' sounding celtic violin pieces and the 'violin banks' segment in 'Om Shanti ' album. this needs to be studied very closely and discussed. Even some trumpet sounds are not the 'real' trumpet sounds these days. As We have read earlier that he is the #2 purchaser of software and hardware purchaser in India after Rahman. There is something behind all this - There is a lot of leaf cover all these days and then voila comes rejuv raaja who surprised everyone with a Jagan Mohini which had a mixture of sounds, three in his old style and two (Nilavu varum and Ponmani theril) from a new equipment. I think slowly this synth will become predominant enhancing sound, yet being 'Raaja's own creation. With the available clues, this is what Mr. Holmes will conclude I presume...

[raagas]

I dont know why my message was deleted? Is it because I said that such non-IR related discussion is unwarranted here? did i say something i should not have?

Kiru
I watched TIS videos and many other videos.I dont know what made you feel that i did not understand IR. I understand and I again reiterate that I am not contesting IR's opinion.My point is that IR SHOULD NOT be using loops, if he has such opinion. OR ELSE, if he is using loops, he should not be complaining about other composers.

ezy's argument was not pertinent to this thread.I was laughing out loud when he asked why ARR is into films and not doing what L.Shankar etc were doing? gosh,where were you in 1992? you should have offered this piece of advice to ARR back then, if you think that he should not be in films.
I have asked this before and i still wonder: Is ARR the only composer in India?Firstly, IR fans do not need to indulge in other composer bashing.and some do,ridiculously.And that too, as if there is no other composer in this country.I find it so silly and dumb. Why are some IR fans so obsessed with ARR?He operates in different sphere, with different approach,with different school of thought.Why is so difficult to accept that?Why dont IR fans crib about Pt.Hridaynath Mangeshkar then? or Mohana Sitara? or Shantanu Moitra? some posts, like ezy's reflect so much of jealousy and insecurity that i feel they completely missed the point.IR's music has so much of richness, that i dont even have time or thought to compare him with any other composer.He is in his own league. Why are people hell bent on proving that a line is small, so that another line is long. there are different lines (composers), in different axes, on different pages that too. Did ever R.D.Burman fans feel insecure about IR? or did MSV fans?it is silly and boring.This IR vs. ARR topic itself should be declared as null and void, because everything about them is totally different. It is like comparing John McLaughlin with John Williams. or Naseeruddin Shah with Aamir Khan?

Jaiganes,
You are right.Listen to the 2nd interlude of Ponmani Theril. I simply love the middle eastern ambience set there with guitars and percussion.Absolutely, but that piece sounds so familiar to me.No offence to IR but I have this strong feeling that i heard that bit somewhere. I never told that here in this forum, bcoz pple will go overboard with "impossible, prove it" kind of talk and I cannot prove it till i identify where i heard it.But i am sure i heard that small bit somewhere and i think it is loops (which must have been used by someone else somewhere).

If, by some miracle, IR invites all of us here to his recording sessions today, I am sure some of the hubbers here will be shocked, looking at the process. That said, I dont mean that he is completely techno driven.But he has become lot techno driven than any of us can imagine here.All this Live instrument - Live recording talk that we do. IR himself will laugh if he sees us defending him with such passion.ofcourse, he is capable of doing all that and still does, when it is needed.he alone decides that, while we people here construct only theories, about not only him..but also about 'other composers'.

[Bala (Karthik)]

If, by some miracle, IR invites all of us here to his recording sessions today, I am sure some of the hubbers here will be shocked, looking at the process. That said, I dont mean that he is completely techno driven.But he has become lot techno driven than any of us can imagine here.All this Live instrument - Live recording talk that we do. IR himself will laugh if he sees us defending him with such passion.ofcourse, he is capable of doing all that and still does, when it is needed.he alone decides that, while we people here construct only theories, about not only him..but also about 'other composers'.
A slightly similar discussion we've been having from yesterday (http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1994796#1994796), especially with respect to romanticized legends....

[MumbaiRamki]

Saw Paa ( Full house still ! ) - Balki has done a decent job with smart , bold ( i mean how many films do we see the hero says i forgot to use a condom to accept his affair ) liners, innocence, locales, right level of emotional quotient.

Raaja's music was quite apt - it carried the story in right proportions - it underscored where it should and pronounced more where it should be - after a long time raaja has used themes and morphed version of the songs in BGM. Except in very few places, the music was brilliant . ( Esp note the place when abhishek touches auro in the hospital ) .

[jaiganes]

If, by some miracle, IR invites all of us here to his recording sessions today, I am sure some of the hubbers here will be shocked, looking at the process. That said, I dont mean that he is completely techno driven.But he has become lot techno driven than any of us can imagine here.All this Live instrument - Live recording talk that we do. IR himself will laugh if he sees us defending him with such passion.ofcourse, he is capable of doing all that and still does, when it is needed.he alone decides that, while we people here construct only theories, about not only him..but also about 'other composers'.
A slightly similar discussion we've been having from yesterday (http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1994796#1994796), especially with respect to romanticized legends....

In the movie Amadeus, what I felt very interesting was the fact that Mozart rejects a religious call and does what he feels like doing. He rejects anything that might be commercially more viable, he choses to tread on his own path, his own commercial choices choices that make him an unknown in his own place, his genius is not carefully branded and did not give a damn about how much money he is making. Today there are tonnes of experts in the net virtually giving Raaja a piece of advice on everything, right from what films he must accept and with whom he must collaborate and get pissed off if Raaja broke off a collaboration with entity X or entity Y. Needless things I say..

[app_engine]

Well, what is next after the tremendous success of PR & pA?

Will he continue with at least one or two big name collabs in 2010 ? :-)

Sure, he may provide gems for unknowns as in the case of chal chalEin. However, it doesn't hurt to work with the likes of Balki, and polish some of his poorly recorded yesteryear gems, isn't it? :-)

I would definitely want next Balki film to come up - with rework of songs like 'vizhiyilE malarndhadhu '!

[tvsankar]

Well, what is next after the tremendous success of PR & pA?

Will he continue with at least one or two big name collabs in 2010 ? :-)

Sure, he may provide gems for unknowns as in the case of chal chalEin. However, it doesn't hurt to work with the likes of Balki, and polish some of his poorly recorded yesteryear gems, isn't it? :-)

I would definitely want next Balki film to come up - with rework of songs like 'vizhiyilE malarndhadhu '!

app,
vizhiyilae - rework.
No app. enna oru azhagana paatu.
flute, guitar , violin spb voice nu ella
original sound oda azhaga irukara paatai - Kandipa
IR REWORK seiya kudadhu ...
IR melayae enaku kobam vandhudum.

Seidha tune kae oru pechu - IR ku different aga tune seiya
theiryalai. ahdan ipadi rework seiyarar nu.
80s songs - All are Original sounded. So andha padalai
IR kandipa use panna vendam, idhan ennoda opinion.

[rooky]

For 2010, we actually do not know what is in store.
The situation is no different to the one when 2009 started..
If you can recollect, There was no news about PAA, not sure about release of NaanKadavul and even PR release was not clear.

we were only looking at Valmiki, and Baghyadevatha then..

IR seems to be in good form and hopefully we will be treated the same way as in 2009.

[Sureshs65]

raagas,

I think that serious music lovers are facing the same dilemma that the photographers and photography enthusiast faced when digital photography was introduced and tools like Adobe Photoshop became available. Given these powerful tools, it was getting difficult to say which was an original photo and which was 'photoshoped'!! The question became, who can be called a good photographer?

I think the same dilemma exists in the minds of many music lovers. And I believe no one is talking about real / acoustic vs 'unreal' instruments. I think what everyone is meaning is the difference between 'fully composed' music and 'composed cum arranged cum bought' music. It becomes difficult to compare the output of music directors like Raja who predominantly stick to 'I will compose everything' school versus all others of today who are OK with taking in commercially available loops / samples in their music. Ofcourse, the general public does not care about this distinction and vote with their money for whichever music they like. But for some serious listeners, this does stand in the way of assessing the relative merits of various composers.

One way this can be surmounted is for the composers to clearly mention which parts of their music were taken from which commercially available sample / loop etc. As we know even the name of the person that comes in and claps twice is mentioned in the inlay card nowadays and it is laudable. If the music directors will also mention their sources it will be even more laudable. But as you know, giving credit to your music sources is a very different ball game from giving credit to musicians.

[Shankar.P]

Actor Vinoo Chakravarthy, who is in self exile because of an injury sustained in a car accident, will announce his first directorial venture in Jan 2010 and keen to have IR's music for that movie.

[Sureshs65]

raagas,

I do not buy your argument that you cannot distinguish between less and more and that it is subjective. A commercial loop that runs throughout the song is more and a small sample which appears briefly is less. My definition :) I am not debating on which is good or bad but saying that even if you use a small sample it is the same as using a loop throughout the song seems to be too much of a stretch and is taking things too literally.

Again the argument that if you are using some tool then if others use the same tool for a different purpose it is OK is like saying that if you are using a knife to cut vegetables it is OK for someone else to use the same knife to kill someone !! Please don't take this to my comparing any MDs. It is just to say that you are stretching the argument too thin. Again, going by the photography thing, there are many good photographers who use Adobe to give some effects but within certain limits and they do criticize those who use Adobe for lot more.For example, many photographers feel that using Adobe to give filter effects is fine but getting something into the scene which was never there is not fine. But going by your argument, people can say 'if you have used Adobe, you have no right to criticize another one who used Adobe for a different purpose'. More than us, music directors have the right to publicize their aesthetic concerns and we need to understand it in that light. I think Raja may have a genuine concern that music composition is no longer real composition and I don't find it wrong in him expressing what he feels should be the limit of technology. You may disagree with his assessment but you cannot argue that 'you should not use loops if you want to criticize anyone'.

[irir123]

everything depends on ones perspective, understanding and exposure

ex - for me the 1st time i listened to the TIME album (1999), i cudnt listen to any of the tracks more than once, until i came to "niram pirithhu" - the other tracks had too many synth/loop usage - though 'thavikkiren' was good despite synth/loop usage - technical makkals may correct me

AFAIK, a song is genuine and good, if its eminently singable/hummable all by itself, without the orchestration - if the orchestration is equally hummable and gels perfectly with the original context/theme of the base tune, it gets a double nod - its in this context that IR had set a benchmark - on occasions, he may have fallen short of either the tune or the orchestration, but makes up for it with either of them (there are certain tracks, for instance, where i dont care for the tune, but the lilting strings usage in the interlude or the interlude might just be breezily jazzy as in the second interlude of 'en uyire' from "poonthotta kaavalkaran")

what IR probably refers to are those kind of 'outputs' where the effort of the composer is getting lesser and lesser but still the composer gets the 'credit'

as a digression - of late, IR's tracks have usage of strings, that are either getting too complex/layered and i cant hum the interludes - the use of strings in the 1st interlude of 'oli tharum' is so minimalistic and subtle by even IR standards, that i need to listen to it actually, rather than play the interlude 'inside' my head (this kind of playing music 'inside' my head, is something IR's music has done to me, i must admit) - i have been noticing this ever since 1993 (his symphony year) - maybe the hand of karthik raja's style, maybe IR decided enough with his string ensemble style, and stopped being bombastic with the exception of a Guru, a PR or a TiS - i dont know the exact reason

and then i get to hear 'ottesi chebutha' 'om shanti om' which have 'am a loop, am a loop' screaming all over the tracks, with very little of IR's handiwork in them!

now i am prompted to listen to others' use of loops and how they differ from IR, or, viceversa!

[mohanraja]

I'm really unable to understand why the comments written by me and ezy0265 have been deleted.

What u people r trying to show?
Jaiganes writes on ezy0265 'Sorry buddy you are atleast 5 years late by hub timelines.'

What's all these?
U people don't encourage new hubbies..
u have a circle ( i don't know by which 'unique similarity' u people have been connected? NRIs?)

Give response to the people who are coming with their own idea..

I can mention many idiotic conversations between u people.
I strongly condemn that u people have deleted our comments..

Senior Hubbers should respond to my complaint..

[Sureshs65]

Mohanraja,

I don't have a clue on what you wrote or who deleted it but I can assure you that there is no 'circle' here. As you rightly said, we have had enough 'idiotic conversations' here and everyone is free to join. Even non-NRIs, me being one :D

I am sure the mods would have taken exception to some comments and deleted the post so as to prevent any major flames. But that is for the mods to clarify to you. All I can say is that the moment you post here, you are part of the 'inner circle' :)

[raagas]

raagas,

I do not buy your argument that you cannot distinguish between less and more and that it is subjective. A commercial loop that runs throughout the song is more and a small sample which appears briefly is less. My definition :) I am not debating on which is good or bad but saying that even if you use a small sample it is the same as using a loop throughout the song seems to be too much of a stretch and is taking things too literally.

Again the argument that if you are using some tool then if others use the same tool for a different purpose it is OK is like saying that if you are using a knife to cut vegetables it is OK for someone else to use the same knife to kill someone !! Please don't take this to my comparing any MDs. It is just to say that you are stretching the argument too thin. Again, going by the photography thing, there are many good photographers who use Adobe to give some effects but within certain limits and they do criticize those who use Adobe for lot more.For example, many photographers feel that using Adobe to give filter effects is fine but getting something into the scene which was never there is not fine. But going by your argument, people can say 'if you have used Adobe, you have no right to criticize another one who used Adobe for a different purpose'. More than us, music directors have the right to publicize their aesthetic concerns and we need to understand it in that light. I think Raja may have a genuine concern that music composition is no longer real composition and I don't find it wrong in him expressing what he feels should be the limit of technology. You may disagree with his assessment but you cannot argue that 'you should not use loops if you want to criticize anyone'.

Suresh,

when i meant it is subjective, i mean by relative standing point.More or less is totally relative.Shankar Jaikishan began competing with Naushad and started using 100+ member orchestra.Now there were people who enjoyed music made through such huge set up and there were also people who criticized that fad and appreciated minimalistic arrangements of S.D.Burman, Ravi, Madan Mohan etc.Who is right? who is wrong?I understand your definition of more or less. But what is more for IR, is probably normal for any other composer. When IR complains about loops,I do not disagree with him.He speaks my mind.But then,music made with loops also has become a genre by itself now.Atleast thats how i see it.Like say, Lounge Music.the musical richness is less and its more of sounds in lounge music.but it has become a genre.You might compare IR with a photographer who uses Adobe at times but I see him as a painter firstly, not even a photographer.I never doubted IR's genuine concern and i myself subscribed to his concern.But then, i hear his own "Om Shanti" or some songs which have loops (popular loops that too, which have already been used by other MDs) and i say to myself "Oh my dear IR,you too?but you just complained!! why double standards!!". Now, why should my idol let such a thought creep into my mind?

Secondly, IR was one of the pioneers, in adapting technology.He opened the gates for technology to come into music.Today, there is an overdose.I think thats bound to happen, like it or dislike it.

[mohanraja]

Thanx Suresh..
I'm a great fan of raja but i never praise him for his recent worthless compositions. According to me raja has done his best from '79 to '85.

ezy0265 has written abt rahman. His points are really valid.
Hope u people haven't forgot that i've given a tight slap to Charu on his irresponsible and idiotic comments on raja in my blog. But no one from ur side ( I really don't want to be appreciated for just a small artcile!Honestly) have given me good comments. Leave it. It's not an issue. Senior hubbers like rajasaranam still believe that charu is a good writer. I know abt that guy very well as I'm in Delhi for the last 6 yrs (though he has left delhi before my coming , my friends used to tell abt him! I'm working as an freelance illustrator for uyirmmai also. I strongly condemned Manushyaputran for publishing charu's idiotic 'reviews'. He really had no answers!)


I'm a regular reader of ut thread, and felt very bad that my comments were deleted.

What else I can say?

[vem]

This thread has become yet another thread where any negative comments on Raja aren't tolerated. It is very unfortunate that so called fans take it personal when someone posts negatively either about IR or about his compositions. As such, none of our comments really affect IR a bit, and hence, if someone doesn't like any of the comments, it is better to ignore than to respond and create a flutter unnecessarily.

[Sureshs65]

Mohanraj,

I understand you feeling bad about comments being deleted. As I said, unless there have been posts which have the potential to create a major flame, the moderators generally don't interfere. Maybe ezy had some points about Rahman but if they had the potential of creating unwanted furore, the mods may have decided to remove it.

I wouldn't agree with vem about negative comments being deleted. Infact many threads have carried comments which are 'negative' and there have been lot of discussion around those comments as well. I am sure everyone welcomes all types of comments as long as they don't create unnecessary controversies.

[Sureshs65]

raagas,

It is true that many an artist, who probably did not like the way things were going, had to adapt himself / herself to the trend if they had to stay relevant. I believe Raja understands this much better than anyone else. Most of the music directors in the past, including some you mentioned, lost their relevance when they couldn't adapt to changing times. Raja stays relevant because he is adapting to the times, whether we like it or not. At the same time he may not feel good about certain things. An artist will always have to deal with this paradox in changing times and honestly I am happy that Raja chooses to fight by changing his style rather than become an elder spokesman who just keeps cribbing.

[MADDY]

It becomes difficult to compare the output of music directors like Raja who predominantly stick to 'I will compose everything' school versus all others of today who are OK with taking in commercially available loops / samples in their music.

eh? i think raaja too has used "pre-constructed" samples.....so, raaja too comes into the territory of "others" in this arguement......but why do you need to compare MDs on basis of loops-usage? im sure a MD who relies completely on loops has a bad taste for arranging those loops too......i think its pretty obvious - difference betn a talented guy like yuvan and a loops-assembler like himesh isnt it?


One way this can be surmounted is for the composers to clearly mention which parts of their music were taken from which commercially available sample / loop etc. As we know even the name of the person that comes in and claps twice is mentioned in the inlay card nowadays and it is laudable. If the music directors will also mention their sources it will be even more laudable. But as you know, giving credit to your music sources is a very different ball game from giving credit to musicians.

suresh, i get where u r "getting at" :D .......i dont understand how the purpose of crediting musicians and crediting loops-sources is "same".......if you understand how our industry works then "crediting musicians" is the primary step in direction of copyrights.....loops-source hmmm it could be a common source like the ones that come with Apple logic pro s/w (or something similar) - i dont understand why we need to credit Microsoft whenever we develop a program in VisualC++ , we have already paid for the license rite ?? what i meant, there mite not be a specific person behind composing loops, it could be a company or orgnisation which requires only fees and not credits

[Shankar]

I was thinking this thread was to discus Raja's new albums...

[ananth222]

loops-source hmmm it could be a common source like the ones that come with Apple logic pro s/w (or something similar) - i dont understand why we need to credit Microsoft whenever we develop a program in VisualC++ , we have already paid for the license rite ?? what i meant, there mite not be a specific person behind composing loops, it could be a company or orgnisation which requires only fees and not credits
LOL!! you don't need to credit MS for code you write urself using VC++, just like you don't have to credit Korg/Yamaha for composing tracks using their instruments. But if you reuse code snippets from MS or any other piece of software, whether its open source and available out there or you stole it, you better credit the source. Same applies to loops. The excuses people make to justify their world view..... :roll:

[raagas]

Suresh,

It is perfectly understandable that IR needs to balance a lot of things to stay relevant. And yes, IR is not composing for a few selected hubbers like us here, to tailor his product according to our likes.There were scores of IR songs that i disliked during his 80s period.And even 90s.So, I am not expecting his every work now to be a good one.2009 was simply fabulous, in which i liked many and disliked few. Thats fine.But in the process of adapting, I wouldnt be quite happy if he changes his style completely.The underlying signatures need to be there.As long as they are there, I can lap it up (it is not even my conscious decision.. liking it or disliking it, happens by its own).Kai Veesi has a different IR, but with his signatures.I enjoyed it.But i cant say the same about "Om Shanti".I enjoy Ponmani Theril,but i could not enjoy "Ilamai Kanavugal"(Dhanam).I hope you get the 'kind' of music that i wish from IR.if he dishes that,I enjoy and if he doesnt, i play the plethora of stuff he gave me.

[Plum]

I am just not comfortable with the loops IR. Om Shanti is a washout. Frankly, if he is evolving is what this means, I dont want this evolution.
(mera number aa gaya :lol: )

[Plum]

BTW, one of the links on Om Shanti put here had a comment that IR was approached for the movie on Srinivasan Ramanujam. I really wish that is true.

[raagas]

I am just not comfortable with the loops IR. Om Shanti is a washout. Frankly, if he is evolving is what this means, I dont want this evolution.
(mera number aa gaya :lol: )

This forum should have "Like" button, similar to the one in facebook :)

[raagas]

According to me raja has done his best from '79 to '85.

ezy0265 has written abt rahman. His points are really valid.


May be you dont find post 85 work of IR to be his best but IR has always been giving some great music to this very day. May be 90s had a brief lull (though he gave some stunners too in that period).

And you can agree or disagree with ezy. to each his own.but probably this was not a right place to criticize any other composer, to glorify IR.My question to you or ezy would be:what are we gaining by criticizing some composer for the path/style/approach he choose? If the answer is 'Nothing', then why indulge in it at all?is it a form of "venting out frustration(about IR not getting recognition in same scale)?".
honestly, i find it all silly!

[appushiva]

I can see people here lament that IR uses synth , loops etc in his new movie " Om shanthi" , but the result is OM shanti is a hit in andhra and "Mallipovu" vanishes without trace even though it has outstanding songs. Now who is responsible for a hit or flop, if IR sticks to his orignial orchestratiion method ,, we might have stopped hearing songs long before because he might have lost in the industry.
Most of us know for a hot day thirsty " tender coconut" is the best of the body , but the vendor who sell "tender coconut" never able to beat the sales of Pepsi and Cola.

Trend - who is making the trend , not people the movie directors and producers , they choose certain ideas to grab money in large scale , only few think about traditional values and taste of mother culture. People will watch if quality movies and songs are available, in "Ideal star singer" programs i never seen partcipants singing Harris Jayaraj (or) Devi sri Prasad (or) Vijay antony songs , this still search for good songs llike Pahasi raja songs or Nan Kadaval songs why llike this..

Did anybody watched chinese or japanese movies having pop or rock songs in their story lines, why we should... Rajini in Sivaji wants a tamil girl wearing saree with god faith but sings western song ,, No body asked why ,, No body wants to respect our culture like chinese or Iranians do.

Can any indian other than IR can give music to flims like "Sagara sangamam or Sindu Bairavi" , did the oscar comitte know about this type of music, they can able to evaluate...

I want to see people who hear contemporary hits to have only " KFC , Burgers, Pizza's, Noodles and spagatties", why they still have idli , dosa , chutney , sambar , hello these are old style food we should change ....

We still have one life partner, bonded family, traditional marriages,, etc. But now north and south wants new western pattern in music why only in music let us change everthing...

It is unfortunate to see the lengend IR also caught in the trap

[Hulkster]

Ok this is going beyond lunacy, all those who believe 21st dec 2012 will come due to thalaivar's synth compositions, please bring up this matter to GOD and ask for remedies to see if the disaster can be stopped, the rest continue listening.

[Plum]

I heard the following albums recently:
Om Shanti
Bhagyada Balegara
Suryakanthi
Kannukkulle
Mallleppoovu (Actually saw the movie)

None of it is "stand-out" IR, I am not sure if any other MD had scored it, I would have even bothered to store the songs in my hard drive.
Of all the non biggies this year, only Valmiki was very good. Didnt hear Jaganmohini.

If I say this, does it mean 2012 is near? It is just my preference.

[Hulkster]

I heard the following albums recently:
Om Shanti
Bhagyada Balegara
Suryakanthi
Kannukkulle
Mallleppoovu (Actually saw the movie)

None of it is "stand-out" IR, I am not sure if any other MD had scored it, I would have even bothered to store the songs in my hard drive.
Of all the non biggies this year, only Valmiki was very good. Didnt hear Jaganmohini.

If I say this, does it mean 2012 is near? It is just my preference.

Nothing wrong with preferences, even i have selective preferences of thalaivar's music, but the posts just above you seem to have pushed their preferences as a viewpoint of showing their disappointment that thalaivar is not composing according to their expectations and from the way the posts are structured make it sound like 2012 is already here. Although it is not a new occurence it has exceeded past two pages and it is getting on my nerves.

The simple reply to people with such questionable posts is bring it up to the man himself, ask him why he "composes" like that, why use synth instead of live recording and why there is no "life" in his compositions. I have already mentioned before that if you dunt like his albums you dunt have to post it here. It is better than trying to engage us other fans into unnecessary arguments.

[jaiganes]

I heard the following albums recently:
Om Shanti
Bhagyada Balegara
Suryakanthi
Kannukkulle
Mallleppoovu (Actually saw the movie)

None of it is "stand-out" IR, I am not sure if any other MD had scored it, I would have even bothered to store the songs in my hard drive.
Of all the non biggies this year, only Valmiki was very good. Didnt hear Jaganmohini.

If I say this, does it mean 2012 is near? It is just my preference.
<ala gounder>
Idhaanyaa ungalukkundaana ketta pazhakkam.
</ala gounder>
As hulkster says, and what I have reiterated, Raaja is right now trying to battle the synth beast and bring it under his control. now Isaac Asimov says in his Foundation series that man made sound will die out in the future and looks like he might be right. Current generation wants to hear sounds that it hasnt heard before and only a synth instrument can quench its thirst. Raaja , if you carefully observe his experiments in recent albums and Chal Chalein in particular has been trying to have his signatures like counterpoints (vocal and instrumental) and raaga - harmony layering and handshakes intact even in the digital music - It is very difficult because the sound mixing to achieve that complex composition in purely computer generated music is very very difficult. IT happens naturally in man made music in a good soundproof auditorium or chamber. I really pity ppl who term Om Shanti is a washout for you havent heard it well enough number of times. It is replete with goodies that Raaja gave us in the 80s and it takes adjusting to. If you cant then you are the loser. Raaja has never come running behind the audience. and he never will. Right now he is fighting the practicality of the need to have synthesized music and yet have his signature and all that I, as a fan can do is to show patience and that too in this oasis year of 2009.

As far as mohanraja and ezy's comments go, I just told ezy that bringing in another composer in to raaja discussion will only side track useful discussion and seriously it is not a mature thing to do. Neither I am a moderator nor am I in a position to influence anyone. Just a guy in 30s telling youngsters in the street not to get into that fight for that will only leave you bitter in the end, the 'same blood' type of feeling I had when I indulged in such fights.

[raagas]

I really pity ppl who term Om Shanti is a washout for you havent heard it well enough number of times. It is replete with goodies that Raaja gave us in the 80s and it takes adjusting to. If you cant then you are the loser. Raaja has never come running behind the audience. and he never will. Right now he is fighting the practicality of the need to have synthesized music and yet have his signature and all that I, as a fan can do is to show patience and that too in this oasis year of 2009.


Btw, for records sake - by "Om Shanti", i mean the song "Om Shanti" in that album, and not the whole album :) I loved Chinna Polike (i would still not give it 10/10,bcoz of that male singer, but anyways) and have been enjoying Flying on the Moon(though this song's instrumentation has a mix of actual IR and some newbie composer).

[Plum]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean. That's the last thing I'd associate with Raja. avLO dhAn

[jaiganes]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean. That's the last thing I'd associate with Raja. avLO dhAn

I think the days of spontaneous music combustion are over.
Our minds have gotten 'over analytical and critical' over the years and frankly the 'blogger-critic' in everyone of us has outgrown the simple music lover in us.

When we hear an exciting music, we immediately start 'googling' the music references and start documenting our newly googled music knowledge and filling up our blogs with micro blogs, milliblogs , centi blogs, decablogs and what not.

Raaja's golden music period is rooted to the simple old days when you could simply appreciate the texturing, interplay of musical instruments and simplicity of tune and 'hummability' and whoa u had a great hit on your hands. Nowadays - a simple tune is dismissed as a simple tune and a non-tune is simply glorified and worshipped for its dazzling array of 'sounds' and 'eclectic' assembly of international influences. It is not just that Raaja is anachronistic, the whole music scene is anachronistic and illogical. If Raaja himself meddles in this mindless madness, then we can only understand it as being a last ditch efforts to bridge the simple days of MSV and KVM where a great song is constructed so simply over chats and playful banters and the current day when the tune is done in seconds and the digital embellishments take forever and the whole thing looks like consummation of infertile individuals.

[Sureshs65]

eh? i think raaja too has used "pre-constructed" samples.....so, raaja too comes into the territory of "others" in this arguement......but why do you need to compare MDs on basis of loops-usage? im sure a MD who relies completely on loops has a bad taste for arranging those loops too......i think its pretty obvious - difference betn a talented guy like yuvan and a loops-assembler like himesh isnt it?


Maddy,

As I said, Raja seems to be a 'predominantly' for composing everything himself. If he does use 'pre-constructed' samples in his songs, those songs can easily be compared with other MDs do. So no issues there. And no issues about some using / selecting loops much better than others. The issue is how to you compare composers when some construct everything by themselves and others who use 'pre-constructed' loops.




suresh, i get where u r "getting at" :D .......i dont understand how the purpose of crediting musicians and crediting loops-sources is "same".......if you understand how our industry works then "crediting musicians" is the primary step in direction of copyrights.....loops-source hmmm it could be a common source like the ones that come with Apple logic pro s/w (or something similar) - i dont understand why we need to credit Microsoft whenever we develop a program in VisualC++ , we have already paid for the license rite ?? what i meant, there mite not be a specific person behind composing loops, it could be a company or orgnisation which requires only fees and not credits

I don't buy your argument here. As Ananth says, if you use VC++ to create your own code that is very different from using some Open Source / already coded modules. And I am not talking about crediting a person or company. My crib is that nowadays I do not know what the music director has composed and what he has 'selected'. If people make it clear as to which parts were not done by them, then it becomes easy for us to assess the music director. (All MDs included here.) I say this because there have been quite a few times when I impressed by some parts of certain songs only to later find out those were not composed by the concerned music director. And that is a letdown.

[rprasad]

Jaiganes, you hit the nail on the head exactly. Thats the same way i feel. Those days are long gone i think where you can enjoy a simple hummable tune and enjoy the preludes and interludes music. Everything has be complex nowadays i guess. These are the days where you need to let the tunes grow on you. Mind you IR has also done some really complex stuff before but predominantly his has been simple catchy tunes and orchestration which can be liked instantly by everyone without people having to have stereo speakers to decipher the sounds and layers in the song.

Talking about loops, there was an interview with Thaman an upcoming composer in Screen magazine and he clearly says that programming knowledge is a must for composers nowdays(hey lot of us software guys qualify i guess) and singles out Rahman, Harris and Manisharma as guys strong with programming. And he goes on to mention that he created tunes for a recent film completely out of some loops in Itunes or something i dont remember exactly. Now this looks like a trend now and this is what Suresh is referring to. When composers start doing this then we ought to be wary as to any hit music they give.

[jaiganes]

Jaiganes, you hit the nail on the head exactly. Thats the same way i feel. Those days are long gone i think where you can enjoy a simple hummable tune and enjoy the preludes and interludes music. Everything has be complex nowadays i guess. These are the days where you need to let the tunes grow on you. Mind you IR has also done some really complex stuff before but predominantly his has been simple catchy tunes and orchestration which can be liked instantly by everyone without people having to have stereo speakers to decipher the sounds and layers in the song.

Talking about loops, there was an interview with Thaman an upcoming composer in Screen magazine and he clearly says that programming knowledge is a must for composers nowdays(hey lot of us software guys qualify i guess) and singles out Rahman, Harris and Manisharma as guys strong with programming. And he goes on to mention that he created tunes for a recent film completely out of some loops in Itunes or something i dont remember exactly. Now this looks like a trend now and this is what Suresh is referring to. When composers start doing this then we ought to be wary as to any hit music they give.

I'm reminded of the talk by Madhaveppadi Suresh in some Telugu program where he said with so much affection and awe towards raja that 'every bar on the music sheet was done by Raaja'. My guess is even in the Om Shanti music, the synth bars are also modified by Raaja. However there is something like diktats of the time and I think we are here witnessing just that. sadly though. but if it is what is required to move on to the next generation and still carry enough of that 'original spirit' So be it I say...

[mohanraja]

நண்பர்கள் அனைவருக்கும் ஒன்று சொல்லி கொள்ள விரும்புகிறேன்.
நானொன்றும் ரஹ்மானை அடியோடு வெறுப்பவன் இல்லை..
கிழக்கு சீமையிலே படத்தின் பின்னணி இசையை ஒரு பத்திரிக்கை கிண்டல் செய்து எழுதியபோது எனக்கு கோபம் வந்தது..புதிதாய் வரும் இசை அமைப்பாளரை இப்படி கண்டனம் செய்வதா என்று நண்பர்களிடம் விவாதித்திருக்கிறேன். அவரது ஆரம்ப கால பாடல்களை இன்றும் என் சேகரிப்பில் வைத்திருக்கிறேன்.
எனினும ரஹ்மான் ஆஸ்கார் வாங்கியபோது உண்மையில் என்னால் மகிழ முடியவில்லை. காரணம் பலருக்கு புரியும்.
அந்த படம் கோல்டன் க்ளோப் வாங்கியபோதே அதை பார்த்து விட்டு வெறுத்து விட்டேன்.
உணமையிலேயே படு செயற்கையான அந்த படம் பல்வேறு 'காரணங்களுக்காக' விருதுகளை 'வாங்கியது'.
அதில் ரஹ்மானுக்கும் ஒரு விருது. (ரஹ்மானை விடுங்கள் பூக்குட்டி அவர்களின் அலம்பல் தாங்க முடியாதது!)


உங்களில் பலர் ரஹ்மானின் வளர்ச்சிக்கு பின்புலமாய் எத்தனை anti-rajas இருந்தார்கள் என்பதை அறிந்திருப்பீர்கள். ரஹ்மானின் திறமை கண்டிப்பாக குறைத்து மதிப்பிட முடியாத ஒன்று தான். யார் என்ன சொன்னாலும் சரி.. தெற்கத்திய பாடல்களை ஒரு ஏளனபார்வை பார்த்து வந்த வடக்கதியவர்களை தவிர்க்கவே முடியாத மாதிரி வென்று காட்டியவர் ரஹ்மான். ஒரு தமிழனாய் பலமுறை நான் பெருமை பட்டதுண்டு.


கண்டிப்பாக ரஹ்மான் ராஜாவை விட பல மடங்கு அதிக தூரம் பயணம் செய்திருக்கிறார். எனினும் அவர் உங்கள் மனதின் அருகில் இருக்கிறாரா ..உண்மையை சொல்லுங்கள்.

(இந்த thread இல் ஏனையா இந்த விஷயம் பற்றி வம்பு வளர்க்கிறீர் என்று ஷங்கர் போன்றவர்கள் மறைமுகமாய் கேட்பது புரிகிறது! நானாவது ராஜா சம்பத்தப்பட்ட விஷயத்தை தான் பேசுகிறேன்.. subject ஐ விட்டு வேறு எதை எதை பற்றியோ உங்களில் பலர் பேசி இருக்கிறீர்கள் !)

[littlemaster1982]

What's the point of discussing ARR in IR's new albums :huh:

[jaiganes]

What's the point of discussing ARR in IR's new albums :huh:
precisely..
Dear Mohanraja,
ungal bloggil idhai patri ezudhungaL.
indha thiriyil vendaam enbadhe en vendukoL.
pls.

[mohanraja]

Ok..jaiganesh..
I leave this matter.


:D

[mohanraja]

Hope u'll follow this 'rules' for all of u.

[jaiganes]

Hope u'll follow this 'rules' for all of u.
yes yes yes....

[Sanjeevi]

mohanraja

ippellam yaarum sandai poda virumpurathilla :lol:

samathanam samathanam :)

[mohanraja]

That's really fine dear friends.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Bala (Karthik)]

Jaiganes, you hit the nail on the head exactly. Thats the same way i feel. Those days are long gone i think where you can enjoy a simple hummable tune and enjoy the preludes and interludes music. Everything has be complex nowadays i guess. These are the days where you need to let the tunes grow on you. Mind you IR has also done some really complex stuff before but predominantly his has been simple catchy tunes and orchestration which can be liked instantly by everyone without people having to have stereo speakers to decipher the sounds and layers in the song.

Disagree emphatically! :)
Raaja appo ellam kudukkaadha complexity-a? The triumph was in presenting even complex aspects so that they could reach the masses.
In fact, appo dhaan ippo irukkaradhai vida complexity adhigam IMO!

However i do get what Jai means: The obsession with 'sound'/'genre' and viewing it as the be all and end all

[ananth222]

Raaja appo ellam kudukkaadha complexity-a? The triumph was in presenting even complex aspects so that they could reach the masses.
In fact, appo dhaan ippo irukkaradhai vida complexity adhigam IMO! agree with u Bala! songs back then were much more interesting in their orchestration... little known songs like "yeriyile elanthamaram" with the vocal harmonies and baroque flute bits, "yedho moham" intro is one stunning piece of orchestration.. even charanam with its counterpoint humming... preludes and interludes from innumerable songs with exquisite string orchestrations... its all missing today. even the so called "simple, soothing, catchy" songs of those days had complex arrangements, chords and bass lines (eg. Ilaiyanila)
I think most of the perceived complexity of today is due to the jazzish influence in his new songs.

[jaiganes]

Jaiganes, you hit the nail on the head exactly. Thats the same way i feel. Those days are long gone i think where you can enjoy a simple hummable tune and enjoy the preludes and interludes music. Everything has be complex nowadays i guess. These are the days where you need to let the tunes grow on you. Mind you IR has also done some really complex stuff before but predominantly his has been simple catchy tunes and orchestration which can be liked instantly by everyone without people having to have stereo speakers to decipher the sounds and layers in the song.

Disagree emphatically! :)
Raaja appo ellam kudukkaadha complexity-a? The triumph was in presenting even complex aspects so that they could reach the masses.
In fact, appo dhaan ippo irukkaradhai vida complexity adhigam IMO!

However i do get what Jai means: The obsession with 'sound'/'genre' and viewing it as the be all and end all

appallaam, nalla tunekku nalla ludes irukkum, tuneayum ludesayum pirichu paakkave namakku kashtamaa irukkum.
These days trend is that sappaya oru tunai pottu, nadula naalu sooper bit (sondha moolayo illai aduthavantta thirudunadhoo) ottittaa podhum, channel kaaranga andha bittai popular aakidraanuvo(edhavadhu programukku bittaa otti). so ottu moththa (ingeyum oru ottaaa?) creativityum 5 second bit poattaale podhum.

indha trendla ennnaththa mettu pottu, ennnaatha paattu ezhudhi onnum velangaadhu vaadhyaare.

saaththaan vedham odhinaal
pinam thinnum saathirangal

appdinnu summaava sonnainga?

[raagas]

Can any indian other than IR can give music to flims like "Sagara sangamam or Sindu Bairavi" , did the oscar comitte know about this type of music, they can able to evaluate...


Any music director can compose music for those films. The question is whether the music will be as good as what IR gave?every composer has their own interpretation.

And Why should the Oscar committee know about Sindhu Bhairavi?It doesnt matter who knows. You know right. Thats all should matter, to you.

[raagas]

Talking about loops, there was an interview with Thaman an upcoming composer in Screen magazine and he clearly says that programming knowledge is a must for composers nowdays(hey lot of us software guys qualify i guess) and ......

rprasad, i thought folks here keep a tab on only 1 composer. you have quoted others too.. strange and unusual! ;)

[raagas]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean.

oh plum! not again :) can we discuss IR new albums instead of stuff related to 'music that grows' and people behind it.

[jaiganes]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean.

oh plum! not again :) can we discuss IR new albums instead of stuff related to 'music that grows' and people behind it.
some songs always take their time to grow on ppl.
Perfect example - Ninnai charanadaindhen from Bharathi.
When I listened to it in the cassette - i was scratching my head, then after seeing the movie, the song made perfect sense and it moved me everytime I listened to it. I now know it byheart with all its intricate and complex 'bits' in it. Similarly Raaja has his share of songs that grow on you . Thing with Raaja's songs is - once they grow on you, they never stop growing on you.. like the nandhi in Ponniyin selvan that grows on Arul mozhi thevan's mind. Its vision and beauty simply surround and encompass you.
Another case in point - puththambudhu poo poothadho - what a classic hamsanandhi - when I heard - the song felt kinda out of place with the rest, when I heard that the film didnt have - I kinda nodded at myself (imaginary) . When I saw the movie, and when I heard that BGM bit of that song, I felt like whoa - why didnt the movie have that song - and everytime since then, when I hear that song, ore romaanjanam dhaan. Till date... this thing really never stopped from growing on me...

[Plum]

[quote=rprasad]
Talking about loops, there was an interview with Thaman an upcoming composer in Screen magazine and he clearly says that programming knowledge is a must for composers nowdays(hey lot of us software guys qualify i guess) and ......

rprasad, i thought folks here keep a tab on only 1 composer. you have quoted others too.. strange and unusual! ;)[/

Iquote]
Idhi chAlA patronising-gA and condescending-gA undhandi. mammalini antunnaaru - meekku mathram nyaayaalu chattaalu levA?
(Just kidding raagas :-) )

[Plum]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean.

oh plum! not again :) can we discuss IR new albums instead of stuff related to 'music that grows' and people behind it.
Where did I talk about others? I said this growing business doesn't work on me - which is how it is whether it is IR composing or others. If I had said it in the context of others, you can accuse me of conspiring to defame but I said this in the context of IR - where is the problem?

[MADDY]

Talking about loops, there was an interview with Thaman an upcoming composer in Screen magazine and he clearly says that programming knowledge is a must for composers nowdays(hey lot of us software guys qualify i guess) and ......

was that a joke or real? do you understand there is no relation between data application programming and sequencer/synthesiser programming......

Suresh65 - i understand your discomfort on loops usage(liking a part of a song and later finding out its a common source)......everyone uses readymade blocks now and im primarily brought up on such music - to me the difference really lies in their arrangement skills and strength in melody......i know these parameters may not be enough to you but can promise you there is difference betn loops assemblers and modern-day composers......

[rajasaranam]

Disagree emphatically! :)
Raaja appo ellam kudukkaadha complexity-a? The triumph was in presenting even complex aspects so that they could reach the masses.
In fact, appo dhaan ippo irukkaradhai vida complexity adhigam IMO!

However i do get what Jai means: The obsession with 'sound'/'genre' and viewing it as the be all and end all

A Point which I keep repeating.

"Raaja Presents Complex music in a simple way. Post him other composers are Presenting Simple music in a Complex way. Right from the no of days they take for composing to the Build-ups for the Music Directors, It has become highly complex these days."

We can witness this in mulitple interviews and talks by Raaja and other composers. Raaja keeps repeating 'Music is just a Trick in Permutations and Combinations and its very easy and simple. (You Can watch the interview with MG Sreekumar where Raaja makes MGS compose a beautiful tune instantly and laughs :notworthy: ). When we read/watch other composers interviews, we may think that making music and moving mountains are similar efforts. Quoting Examples will bring a war here, hence... :lol:

[MADDY]

the Build-ups for the Music Directors

infact it was IR who had maximum number of "self-appreciatory" songs and had many scenes appreciating him in movies that were financed by him and his chamchas.........ofcourse, there is nothing wrong in it, when a man makes such great music, he deserves all the praise

[writeface]

http://solvanam.com/?p=5150

[MADDY]

Quoting Examples will bring a war here, hence... :lol:

i dont understand this - i see some IR fans are "hesitating" to post damaging words on rahman when the whole section reeks of condescending posts on rahman, the person and rahman, the compositional model.......and yet you had no rahman fan asking why - because except for me and LM, no rahman fans visits IR section......so, i dont think anyone is going to ask you "why" if you abuse rahman to any extent here...... :)

[rajasaranam]

<ala gounder>
Idhaanyaa ungalukkundaana ketta pazhakkam.
</ala gounder>


:lol:
Was Listening to a Telugu Song Recently (From Killer or Kirathakudu Probably), There was a song which starts off with Grand Rockish arrangements. When we are totally into the Rockin mode the song suddenly jumps to carnatic music. When I heard that my mind repeated the same "Idhaanyaa ungalukkundaana ketta pazhakkam" oru Rock songa ozhunga enjoy panna vida maattaa :lol:

[rajasaranam]

the Build-ups for the Music Directors

infact it was IR who had maximum number of "self-appreciatory" songs and had many scenes appreciating him in movies that were financed by him and his chamchas.........ofcourse, there is nothing wrong in it, when a man makes such great music, he deserves all the praise

I didnt mean Rahman here definitely. It was for Harris, Yuvan, Vijay antony, GVP and the likes. I've even read them being credited as genius and my blood boils like anything. Infact When someone says Rahman a Genius I have very little problem.

[littlemaster1982]

I don't think quoting examples from HJ, VA and GVP interviews would start a war here :roll:

[raagas]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean.

oh plum! not again :) can we discuss IR new albums instead of stuff related to 'music that grows' and people behind it.
Where did I talk about others? I said this growing business doesn't work on me - which is how it is whether it is IR composing or others. If I had said it in the context of others, you can accuse me of conspiring to defame but I said this in the context of IR - where is the problem?
hey i didnt mean to be accusative!I said it in pure lighter vein, because your comment too appeared to be in lighter vein to me. :)

[raagas]

Idhi chAlA patronising-gA and condescending-gA undhandi. mammalini antunnaaru - meekku mathram nyaayaalu chattaalu levA?
(Just kidding raagas :-) )

:) good one.. do you know telugu? or did you just try? but good one :)

[Plum]

Idhi chAlA patronising-gA and condescending-gA undhandi. mammalini antunnaaru - meekku mathram nyaayaalu chattaalu levA?
(Just kidding raagas :-) )

:) good one.. do you know telugu? or did you just try? but good one :)

raagas, I know telugu very well.

[Plum]

jai, I dont know - never found it easy to appreciate music that 'grows on you'. You know what I mean.

oh plum! not again :) can we discuss IR new albums instead of stuff related to 'music that grows' and people behind it.
Where did I talk about others? I said this growing business doesn't work on me - which is how it is whether it is IR composing or others. If I had said it in the context of others, you can accuse me of conspiring to defame but I said this in the context of IR - where is the problem?
hey i didnt mean to be accusative!I said it in pure lighter vein, because your comment too appeared to be in lighter vein to me. :)
Cool, I just didnt want to be misinterpreted. I cannot "try and like" music. I gave a fair listen to the IR albums I mentioned, and only Valmiki had appeal. I understand Valmiki also has synth sounds in many places but it appealed while Om Shanti didnt. It is tough for me to go beyond this and appreciate it for "sounds" or "attempts at fusing sounds", even if it is my beloved IR doing it.

[rprasad]

Maddy, Ofcourse I was joking just to highlight how technical music composing has become in recent times.

Also regarding simple music from IR, i did not mean that IR's songs are not complex, i only meant that for commons masses the songs remained simple eventhough lot of complexities existed in the composition itself. The song remained enjoyable for them eventhough complexities existed.

I was just listening to Nilla adhu Vanathu mela from Nayagan. You will not believe that this was the song that made me a fan of IR instantly. before that i was mainly listening to Hindi songs mainly kishore kumar songs and some telugu songs as well. But this song changed my tastes completely. In a way iwas a late entry admirer of IR's music but well caught up now. But this song , has anyone composed a better or more classy kuthu( or an other category this falls into, i am not sure at this time) song than this ? The introduction music, the percussion the interludes the singing they just mesmerize me. Again the music in this song is simple in keeping with the time period of the movie (it is supposed to be 60's or 70's in themovie i think). but what magic IR creates. Even now this sounds so fresh. This song is unmatched i think even now.

[rajasaranam]

Quoting Examples will bring a war here, hence... :lol:

i dont understand this - i see some IR fans are "hesitating" to post damaging words on rahman when the whole section reeks of condescending posts on rahman, the person and rahman, the compositional model.......and yet you had no rahman fan asking why - because except for me and LM, no rahman fans visits IR section......so, i dont think anyone is going to ask you "why" if you abuse rahman to any extent here...... :)

It is not about anybody asking me 'Why'. Its about digressions this thread will lead to :P and it was not only about Rahman I meant this post for every other composer. Think of this: when GVP composed for 'Ayirathil Oruvan' there were build-ups leading us to believe it was a gargantuan task to find the old instruments and compose for a period film while Raaja has done it with much ease while composing for 'Andam Kidungidunga' in Devathai or the songs in 'Pazhassiraja'. There were no such 'Difficulty' thrown around, If there were any accolades it will be towards the 'composition' not the 'Process' :)

[rajasaranam]

I don't think quoting examples from HJ, VA and GVP interviews would start a war here :roll:
Read the post above!

[rajasaranam]

rprasad,

One of my friends asked for some Latin American songs for a dance programme. I asked him to Give 'Nila athu Vaanathu Mele' a Listen. After listening to the song, He had difficulty in understanding how a normal 'kuthu' song can have so much of Latino music init. I replied thats Raaja! :)

[Sureshs65]

Suresh65 - i understand your discomfort on loops usage(liking a part of a song and later finding out its a common source)......everyone uses readymade blocks now and im primarily brought up on such music - to me the difference really lies in their arrangement skills and strength in melody......i know these parameters may not be enough to you but can promise you there is difference betn loops assemblers and modern-day composers......

Maddy,

To be honest I have no discomfort in anyone using loops and I enjoy those songs as well. I am fully with you that there is a definite difference between 'loop assemblers' as you call them and other modern day composers. My main problem has been that even those loops / samples / whatever, which are taken from various sources are credited to that particular composer by the general public. Hence my wish that everyone knows where the originality is. If it is in arrangement skills and melody, so be it and we can appreciate it. It is just that it will be good to know what has exactly been the contribution of the music director.

[Sureshs65]

Lot of discussions here but replying to each of them would be boring. (/In Vadivelu style, "yaaruku boring?. Yaarukko" :) ) Boring to those who read it ofcourse :)

I can say that I personally have not found much complexity in the music I hear currently from many of the composers. (I am not trying to say 'complex music' is good music. I am just talking about the way the tune is structured.) To me Raja's tunes still remain the most complex. Even the current ones. I am fully with Jaiganesh when he says that many a time just a few catchy phrases in the whole song is enough to have it repeated ad nauseum on TV and Radio. It is as if the whole song has just one simple idea!!! I find this especially in many of the current Hindi songs which I listen on the FM radio.

Anyway, as Shankar had gently pointed out, maybe we are moving too much away for the 'current albums' thread?

[raagas]

So let me take the responsibility of getting back to the topic of this thread.

What would be the next release of IR (irrespective of Language?)?

And I dont know why the Hindi film SRK is still lying in the cans. Any updates on that?

[Punnaimaran]

1. Sketch for love (Telugu) *ing Chetan Kumar, Archana (Expected May 2010)
2. Pen singam (Thamizh) *ing Udhay Kiran, Meera Jasmine (Expected : April 2010)
3. Oh my God (Telugu) *ing Master Kamal, Kriya (Expected : August 2010)
4. Priyathamaa Raave (Telugu) *ing Githan Ramesh, Priyamani (Expected : October 2010)
5. Padiththurai (Thamizh) *ing Arya, Abinaya (Expected : December 2010)
Courtesy : http://popcorn.oneindia.in/

[raagas]

April 2010. Man!!!! thats 4 months away!!!

[rajasaranam]

Punnaimaran,

Pen Singam is by Thenisai Thendral :D

raagas,

By first week of Jan2010 we can Expect the music release of 'Thaandavakone'

[kameshratnam]

4. Priyathamaa Raave (Telugu) *ing Githan Ramesh, Priyamani (Expected : October 2010)

This should be the Dubbed version of the tamil movie MADHU

[Punnaimaran]

RS,
That site credited the movie to IR. You are right and thanx for the info. Eagerly awaiting Thandavakkone.

[Hulkster]

the Build-ups for the Music Directors

infact it was IR who had maximum number of "self-appreciatory" songs and had many scenes appreciating him in movies that were financed by him and his chamchas.........ofcourse, there is nothing wrong in it, when a man makes such great music, he deserves all the praise

You make ilaiyaraaja sound like some don who has 40 henchmen in his house; i know that you got fustrated by some irresponsible posts here aboutt Rahman, but this is abit too far-fetched. Self-appreciatory yes, there is even a movie titled after him called ilaiyaraajavin rasigai, but all this in great respect of what the man has done and you can see it continuing even today, Not because he wants them in nor because he finances such stuff.

[Punnaimaran]

There is an upcoming film titled "Thirumangalaththu Yaanai" produced and directed by Rajkiran. Any idea on who the MD is??

[kameshratnam]

There is an upcoming film titled "Thirumangalaththu Yaanai" produced and directed by Rajkiran. Any idea on who the MD is??

Enough of Rajkran: I guess he has advertised a lot about of his upcoming movies...and finally they dont even make it

[kameshratnam]

Met a top man of a channel which telecasted/organised IR's live concert on their channel. They were very close to signing a deal with IR for a series of episodes on TV and he even agreed to judge a competition but the channel is still to come out of the pricing shock which they got and also they say they have to follow IR rules and today's commercial play..sadly things dont work out in such a way

What a bad miss for fans like us.........

[jaiganes]

Met a top man of a channel which telecasted/organised IR's live concert on their channel. They were very close to signing a deal with IR for a series of episodes on TV and he even agreed to judge a competition but the channel is still to come out of the pricing shock which they got and also they say they have to follow IR rules and today's commercial play..sadly things dont work out in such a way

What a bad miss for fans like us.........

romba romba pazhaya news saar neenga solradhu.
some telugu guys tried it and ran away after hearing his price...
I would not like to see him waste his time in the TV when he has million other creative things to do.

[jaiganes]

BTW - saw AVATAR yesterday and JAmesh horner's use of tribal music is in the same vein as a Ennio Morricone or Raaja - the primal flutes and tribal afro drums - universal cliche I guess...

Raaja is not like a pattampoochi (buttefly) to have one cocoon, once in a lifetime transformation into a genius process. He seems to be like a ever growing snake, varushaa varusham pudhu sattai pudhu dimension apdinnu poittu irukkaar. Indha isai anacondavin pudhu chattai enakku romba pidithirukiradhu....

[mohanraja]

//JAmesh horner's use of tribal music is in the same vein as a Ennio Morricone or Raaja - the primal flutes and tribal afro drums - universal cliche I guess... //

Avatar's bgm sometimes resembles 'Apocalypto' bgm(both are by james..)
Did u notice it?
(Am i 'in' the subject seniors?)

[jaiganes]

//JAmesh horner's use of tribal music is in the same vein as a Ennio Morricone or Raaja - the primal flutes and tribal afro drums - universal cliche I guess... //

Avatar's bgm sometimes resembles 'Apocalypto' bgm(both are by james..)
Did u notice it?
(Am i 'in' the subject seniors?)

<digression>
writer jeyamohan has mentioned the influence of the 1986 roland JAffe film The mission on Avatar - there is a stretch of a prelude to the theme of the untamed land of the tribals in Apocalypto and all of them have the same 'grammar' for tribal music - while the western composers stop at a level with the tribal music, Raaja goes neck deep into it and comes up with carnatic and western Classical music counterpoints and harmony points with the tribal music. Ofcourse noone can touch 'Meenkodi theril' and 'Aasaya kaathula thoodhu' when it comes to conveying the tribal setting sonically. However this topic is worth dissecting and analysing in an extensive fashion.
And there are no seniors here and you can pls stop that come back to ground level where we all are.

[k_vanan]

Here another malayalam movie for Sathyan + Jayram

http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14925226

[kameshratnam]

Met a top man of a channel which telecasted/organised IR's live concert on their channel. They were very close to signing a deal with IR for a series of episodes on TV and he even agreed to judge a competition but the channel is still to come out of the pricing shock which they got and also they say they have to follow IR rules and today's commercial play..sadly things dont work out in such a way

What a bad miss for fans like us.........

romba romba pazhaya news saar neenga solradhu.
some telugu guys tried it and ran away after hearing his price...
I would not like to see him waste his time in the TV when he has million other creative things to do.

JG: I am not aware of any thing which u say...but this news is about 3 weeks back...the channel is a tamizh channel

[Plum]

First Kamal - now IR being talked of about TV shows. ennayA nadakkudhu inga. nejamAvE vevasaayam pArka dhAn pOgaNum pOla :roll:

[baroque]

Here another malayalam movie for Sathyan + Jayram

http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14925226

GREAT.
Vinatha.

[ezy0265]

-deleted-

[Sureshs65]

Jai,

I too unfortunately watched Avatar yesterday. As you mention, the western music directors have a certain grammar and it is enough for them to just convey to the western audience that what you are hearing is tribal music. No one seems to worry about going beyond that in the movies like Raja has done. Anyway can't blame the MD here since the movie itself adheres to the grammar of formulaic cinema.

[K]

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/specials/2009/12/30-ilayaraja-release-paa-tamil.html

[mohanraja]

மிக சரியான வார்த்தைகள் ஜெய்..
ராஜா tribal music ஐ கையாண்டது போல் எவரும் முயற்சி கூட செய்ததில்லை.
குறிப்பாக 'ராசாவே ஒன்ன நான் எண்ணி தான்' (முரட்டுக்காளை) பாடலை சொல்லலாம். (tribal category இல் பொருந்துமா தெரியவில்லை..) ஆனால் காட்டின் மர்மத்தையும் துணை தேடும் பெண்ணின் எண்ணத்தையும் ராஜா ஒரே நேர்கோட்டில் இணைத்திருப்பார். (உண்மையில் ராஜா போல் உணர்வுகளை இசையாய் மொழிபெயர்த்தவர்கள் யாரும் இல்லை என்றே சொல்லலாம்.)
எதை எடுத்துக்கொண்டாலும் அதன் ஆழம் வரை பாயும் திறமை கொண்டவர் நம் ராஜா. எனவே தான் tribal,folk ,jazz ,.WCM எதுவானாலும் அதில் சிகரம் தொட்டார். (தொடுகிறார் என்று சொல்ல முடியவில்லை!)

ராஜாவின் வருகைக்கு பிறகு எம் எஸ் வி தந்த 'நினைத்தாலே இனிக்கும்' போல் ராஜாவிடம் இருந்து ஒரு பிரவாகத்தை எதிர் பார்த்து கிடக்கிறேன்.
தராமலே ஏமாற்றி வருகிறார் தலைவர்!
(ஜெய் தயவு செய்து என்னை மன்னியுங்கள். நான் வெகு காலமாக உங்கள் பதிவுகளை படித்து வருகிறேன்.
இப்போது தான் இந்த இழையில் எழுதுகிறேன்! )
:P

[jaiganes]

Met a top man of a channel which telecasted/organised IR's live concert on their channel. They were very close to signing a deal with IR for a series of episodes on TV and he even agreed to judge a competition but the channel is still to come out of the pricing shock which they got and also they say they have to follow IR rules and today's commercial play..sadly things dont work out in such a way

What a bad miss for fans like us.........

romba romba pazhaya news saar neenga solradhu.
some telugu guys tried it and ran away after hearing his price...
I would not like to see him waste his time in the TV when he has million other creative things to do.

JG: I am not aware of any thing which u say...but this news is about 3 weeks back...the channel is a tamizh channel
oh shucks - the same was tried by a telugu channel as well this year. knowing IR's personality I would stay far away from inviting him to any such shows - because there is no talent in TN as far as singing is concerned. I peeked a few times into the super singer like contests it is all ore 'naarasam' more show and less talent. Raaja will not be courteous like SPB to say 'nanna try panneenga'. First episode - total elimination dhaan. HE will be better fit to be the judge in asianet idea super singer where the talent is much better and the orchestra also is superior.