Roles that you wish Sivaji Ganesan had taken up...

[Plum]

When you talk of Nadigar Thilagam, the consensus usually is that he has done everything that's there under the Sun when it comes to acting. There is not a role he hasn't performed, so say we all of us.

Yet, I have lived for atleast 10 years now wishing that there was more - greedy? Maybe. Then again, maybe not. Because we all know there was so much to him than we saw on screen in his career.

Ok, the preamble out of the way, here's the parameters: Think about roles that were on offer during his career (1952-2001), that were performed by someone else, who might have done a competent job, too. The parameters are:
* It should be a role that happened on screen during his career, and dont restrict yourself to Tamil
* It doesnt matter if it is a miniscule role, or a 2-bit role. The idea is to think how he would have done it. As in, it may be beneath his dignity to act in a 2-bit role, but then it is not about what the role brings to the actor rather what the actor brings to the role, isn't it? So, the idea is what film might have been enhanced by his presence, even in a 2-bit role.
* The other way to think about it is what role could have shown a facet that we never saw in his career, but know in our hearts that he had it.
I had a hesitation to start this thread, for some of my suggestions will be laughable for hardcore Sivaji fans - so the disclaimer is that this is just my sensibility, and I want to see how others see the same aspect. As in, we are all the blind men trying to describe the elephant that he was, arent we? I might touch his ears and say, he is a muram, while you might touch the legs and say he is a thooN.
The idea is to fantasise along these lines here...As is usual, we might even think of a poll along these lines.
P.S: Another motive is to revive the Classics forum. When it started, we all expressed concern that it might reduce discussion on classics. Looks like it is going down that path...

[Plum]

Here's my suggestion #1.
One of the prominent grouses I have been having against his career is that save for some early movies, he couldnt really explore shades of grey - there were sure characters which had quirks, and movies which addressed grey shades in passing but never a fascinating full blown exploration. So, thinking along thosee lines, my first wish:
Role: Chakravarthy
Movie: NetrikaNN
Type: Lecherous old man, with a style quotient of infinity, and a cracking set of relationships
Why?: The answer is why not? We know Rajnikanth gave a memorable performance here but I truly believe it should have been the original style king who should have done this - an out and out grey shade role. The film is wholesome by itself without the need for Sivaji Ganesan as it stands now. However, I would have loved to see him in this role.

[NOV]

One of the prominent grouses I have been having against his career is that save for some early movies, he couldnt really explore shades of grey - there were sure characters which had quirks, and movies which addressed grey shades in passing but never a fascinating full blown exploration. I think there has been a few: from Edhiroli, Pudhiya Paravai to gnana oli.

I guess there arent many roles he has not done. and for now I can only think of ajith's role in varalaru. :think:

[hamid]

To be frank I cant think of much in this aspect...

maybe we should think about some good roles which are sothappified by some actors and compare it with Sivaji doing it..

[Plum]

To be frank I cant think of much in this aspect...

maybe we should think about some good roles which are sothappified by some actors and compare it with Sivaji doing it..

Hamid, thats part of the stated goals of this thread- please go ahead. But at the same time, I dont subscribe to Sivaji has done everything. The circumstances didnt allow him to do everything he could.

[Shakthiprabha]

All the following I wish were mature movies with no masala or kiddish stuffs to entertain 'all purpose crowd'

__________________________________________________ __


I wish he had taken lot more of EPICS and HISTORIC roles playing EMPERORS and KINGS.

I wish he had done a role of full-fledged scientist and portrayed soem of their life stories.

I wish he had done few roles which talks on abstract thinking of eccentric personalities.

I wish he had done a typical role of "sherlock" in some mystery stories.

I wish he had done roles like "abhishek bhachan" in 'guru' or "amir khan" in "tare zameen par"

I wish he had been in veeNai balachandar's "bommai" and similar movies.

I wish he had done some mallu / hindi movies.

I wish he had done E.V.R (periyaar) role (sathyaraj movie, yeah sathyaraj did a good job )

[Plum]

One of the prominent grouses I have been having against his career is that save for some early movies, he couldnt really explore shades of grey - there were sure characters which had quirks, and movies which addressed grey shades in passing but never a fascinating full blown exploration. I think there has been a few: from Edhiroli, Pudhiya Paravai to gnana oli.

I guess there arent many roles he has not done. and for now I can only think of ajith's role in varalaru. :think:
gnana oLI - script is so sympathetic to his role. We root for his character start to finish.

There is aandavan kattalai which skirts the border just stopping short of a full exploration.

Anyway, Ajith's role in varalaaru - adhula full blown characterisation irundhudhA? Or, was it a caricature? I havent seen , paarthavanga sollunga.

[hamid]

Pasupathy's role in Veyil..

The emotions of being defetad in life, losing in all counts always.. etc.. would have been a challenge Sivaji would have cherished and performed better than any other..

Note : Pasupathy did that role very well..

[Plum]

Hamid, thats a good one, although a lot of Sivaji tearjerkers in 60's and 70's "defeated him in life" relentlessly already :-)

[sankara1970]

The other day I was watching Thiruvilayadal with my child 4 yrs old

The impact of first Sivan introduction scene is such that I could imagine how the film became hit. That film is for all seasons. 45 years back the film was released. The dances, nandi playing mridangam, Vani on veena, naradha vocal, pooda kanangal dancing and the art work-wow wonderful

I my humble opinion, The films NT has done is enough for the future generations to learn from.

Though at times while seeing some stars doing some roles, we feel difficult to sit thro'

The era has changed and we the NT lovers are appreciating the skills of new directors as well as few actors(?)

The post NT era has been the directors' era as the acting died after NT's demise. We can't accept as acting by anyone other than NT.

Yes inside our heart we feel always NT should have acted this...

[groucho070]

Great thread, Plum. Awesome, I know what you are saying. It's a form of admiration and tremendous respect when we say he played every role. For example he never played the Big Bird in Sesame Street. Of course, he could've done more, but appo appadi. There were not enough from other department to complement his department.

Anyway, let's look at some of the suggestions:

Plum's Netrikan

Was explored in Vilayattu Pillai (1970). Been sometimes, but the film itself didn't have much impact.


SP
I wish he had taken lot more of EPICS and HISTORIC roles playing EMPERORS and KINGS.
Pattalaiyaa? Yabbaaa.... :roll:

I wish he had done a role of full-fledged scientist and portrayed soem of their life stories.
He has done this here and there. A scientist/doctor in Pazhu Palamum. But not as in a scientiest biopic.

I wish he had done few roles which talks on abstract thinking of eccentric personalities.
Gouvaram is close. Abstract thinking would not have happened knowing the scriptwriters ability those days.

I wish he had done a typical role of "sherlock" in some mystery stories.
Cop yeah. But Holmes style detective. That was taken by Jawar Seetharam in Antha Naal. But yeah, I would love it.


I wish he had done roles like "abhishek bhachan" in 'guru' or "amir khan" in "tare zameen par"
Let me quote Rajini, "Ee-HAAA-hahahaha". Remember Kappalottiya Tamizhan? VPK? Some of the characters in Thiruvarutchelvar? baccha pannunathu appo veera mathiri bayanggarama pannunaaru.


I wish he had been in veeNai balachandar's "bommai" and similar movies.
Yeah. But he was in S.B's Andha Naal.

I wish he had done some mallu / hindi movies.
He did. Please consult Murali-sar's list.

I wish he had done E.V.R (periyaar) role (sathyaraj movie, yeah sathyaraj did a good job )
Alas his wish too. But the historical biopics he did far compensated


Hamid,
Pasupathi's role could be close to what NT had done in Nenjirukkum Varai.

[Plum]

grouch, thanks. You got the spirit of what I wanted to bring up. I havent seen Velayattu Pillai! Whats that movie like, discuss. Adhukkaga thaan thread start paNninadhu.

Ok, here's my suggestion #2
YGP in Sila NerangaLiL Sila ManidhargaL.
Small role. Bit role-nE sollalaam, in more than one way :-)
But here's a role I wish he had done - it is not the most important character in the movie, it has absolutely no weight - but it is an ordinary man with ordinary 'weaknesses'. Considering it was Bhim Singh who directed it, wonder how it would have been if he had had the guts to approach Sivaji for it...

[Plum]

groucho, also bring on your wish list. We could add a new category given your weld movies exposure - foreign movie roles which might have showcased a different dimension of Sivaji Ganesan.

[Shakthiprabha]

//Abstract thinking would not have happened knowing the scriptwriters ability those days.//

Thats my regret too groucho :)

[Plum]

Concrete suggestions so far:
1. Chakravarthy in NetrikaNN
2. Pasupathy in Veyyil
3. Ajith in Varalaaru - someone must expand on this to give further consideration
4. big bird in sesame street - groucho must expand on this to bring this into consideration

[groucho070]

4. big bird in sesame street - groucho must expand on this to bring this into consideration :lol: neengga veera serious-a edutthuttu.

Trouble is, these stuff you get to see bits and pieces in his films...that is why they gave us the impression that there is alot more that could have been done.

The clown routine in Rajapart or the Santa Clause in Thavaputhalvan going kingginikinggini kini kinikinikini yena varum (yes, I can do this) is a form of Big Bird of that time - men in costume to entertain kids. Of course, those scenes had extra layer for us viewers.

The Gopal character offers us a darker shade of a killer...something Barathiraja explored further. As would his character in Alayamani or Annaiyin Aanai. Appa ulla kalathirku eerpa eplore pannunaangga.

Roles like Veyyil seem heavier now, but if you were to take it back to time, it loses some plotline scriptwriters of those days wouldn't think of (cinema nostalgia is not that much then), and the character would put on a bit more makeup, dialogues a bit heavy handed, and voila! You get something like Nenjirukkum Varai, except the man playing the role acted his pants off in that movie.

That's why it's difficult to take contemporary roles and bring it back for NT. One he would have done a baseline version of it, and plotwise it would have been lot simpler...again the same baseline argument.

Appuram, Plum, Enakku world movies onnum theriyaathu, but I do have wish list concerning classic mainstream Hollywood which I know a bit. Athu appuram post pannuren.

[Plum]

groucho, that he would have done a baseline version of any role you can pick - agree 100%. What I'm trying to say is pick a role as it happened as it is, and I just want to, for want of a better word, *fantasise* how he would have done it. Forum irukkaradhu edhukku - vetti pechukku dhaane :-)

We could pick from any of the following categories
1) Much acclaimed role done by someone else, and acclaimed performance by that person too - example, Netrikann
2) A potentially great role screwed up by someone else
3) An ordinary role, which could have given us a different facet of NT - example, YGP in SNSM.
I can think of another category: a movie like Naan Vaazha Vaippaen - how it would have been with Sivaji and Rajni exchanging roles?

[groucho070]

grouch, thanks. You got the spirit of what I wanted to bring up. I havent seen Velayattu Pillai! Whats that movie like, discuss. Adhukkaga thaan thread start paNninadhu.It's about infidelty, with NT taking on the role of a naughty husband. But then it was naughty, as far as I can remember, not notorious like Chakravarthy.

As for "ordinary man with weaknesses", I'd like to know how he would have handled Madhavan's Evano Oruvan which has a story that can fit any period. Imagine Prestige Pathmanaban, younger age, taking public transport, can't take it anymore and goes on rampage!!!!

[groucho070]

I can think of another category: a movie like Naan Vaazha Vaippaen - how it would have been with Sivaji and Rajni exchanging roles?Now you are talking, my friend. With NT, we saw nothing extraordinary. But Rajini in it, we'd be sitting up and lapping up the good performance, and when NT appears in the middle, we'd stand up and applause. We can easily see this, having had witnessed NT doing a standout guest roles in films like Kaval Deivam or even the dull Cinema Paithiyam as himself.

[groucho070]

Another thing that gets to me nowadays, and I commented again recently, is the handling of split personality. Let's put, say, Anniyan back in the early 70s.

From what I feel, we will never get to see the Anniyan character. Death will be mostly offscreen, with bad guy only shown fleeing. We might probably see notes from this vigilante character (Major Sunderajan, of course, will be the cop :P ) and NT revealed as the murdering Anniyan at the end ala Puthiya Paravai. Of course, that will be the moment when he turns really nasty...and naturally no need make up or long hair, his performance will take care of it.

[sudha india]

Has NT done any full time feminine role ?

Reading the few posts above makes me think of the Maharani role of Prakash Raj in the film Appu. I dont know if NT has already done this kind of role.

How will it be if NT does as a transgender, a pimp, a sharp negative haracter............ :think:

[hamid]

Groucho/Sudha,

Thats intresting.. Sivaji doing a split personality role., transgender role... mm..lot to think along the thought.... nice suggestion. :cool:

[groucho070]

Well, he started off playing a girl during stage days, and was at it for a long time.

By the way, forget about NT doing Indian (Shankar), coz he already did that in Naam Pirandha Man with Kamal :P

[NOV]

Ajith acted as an effeminate man (superbly too) in Varalaru. I can think of no other mainstream actor who has done that role.

[Plum]

Has NT done any full time feminine role ?

Reading the few posts above makes me think of the Maharani role of Prakash Raj in the film Appu. I dont know if NT has already done this kind of role.

How will it be if NT does as a transgender, a pimp, a sharp negative haracter............ :think:

Cool, that would have been something. Damn, he should have been born a couple or more of decades later than he actually was!

[Plum]

I can think of another category: a movie like Naan Vaazha Vaippaen - how it would have been with Sivaji and Rajni exchanging roles?Now you are talking, my friend. With NT, we saw nothing extraordinary. But Rajini in it, we'd be sitting up and lapping up the good performance, and when NT appears in the middle, we'd stand up and applause. We can easily see this, having had witnessed NT doing a standout guest roles in films like Kaval Deivam or even the dull Cinema Paithiyam as himself.

That's how it was in Hindi with a young Amitabh doing the duets, and young man stuff while Pran did the paisa vasool, middle aged rowdy making a dashing cameo. Sivaji Ganesan in that role would have been rocking. The 'hero' role adds nothing to his career at all

[Plum]

grouch, thanks. You got the spirit of what I wanted to bring up. I havent seen Velayattu Pillai! Whats that movie like, discuss. Adhukkaga thaan thread start paNninadhu.It's about infidelty, with NT taking on the role of a naughty husband. But then it was naughty, as far as I can remember, not notorious like Chakravarthy.


Ok, this is what I meant when I said "sure there are some movies touching upon grey shades but nothin full blown". This is very apposite groucho. He should really have done Chakravarthy :-(

[Plum]

Another thing that gets to me nowadays, and I commented again recently, is the handling of split personality. Let's put, say, Anniyan back in the early 70s.

From what I feel, we will never get to see the Anniyan character. Death will be mostly offscreen, with bad guy only shown fleeing. We might probably see notes from this vigilante character (Major Sunderajan, of course, will be the cop :P ) and NT revealed as the murdering Anniyan at the end ala Puthiya Paravai. Of course, that will be the moment when he turns really nasty...and naturally no need make up or long hair, his performance will take care of it.

This is fine, fine cud-chewing groucho - posts like this are what I hoped for when I started the thread!

[Plum]

Crossing the borders, I'd have liked him to do Shatranj Ke Khiladi. A Satyajit Ray movie. I'm sure he'd have fitted it to a T as per Ray's requirements. Mavane, overacting-nu egirravangaLukku ellam oru slap-A irundhirukkum...

A movie like MadhilukaL, Mammootty's role...

[sivank]

I heard NT refused to lend his voice for role of Mufasa in Lion King as it was dubbed in Tamil. I heard he was really angry as some one approached him to lend his voice to equal James Earl Jones voice.

I would have loved to see NT playing the role of Anakin Skywalker/ Darthvader without the usual Tamil Film Sentiments. In my opinion he would have made a very good Darthvader

[app_engine]

I heard NT refused to lend his voice for role of Mufasa in Lion King as it was dubbed in Tamil. I heard he was really angry as some one approached him to lend his voice to equal James Earl Jones voice.


The first thought that came to my mind when I read Plum's first post was how it would be to use his voice for an animated film as in the west :-)

Then here comes your post stating that people really attempted to do that!

[Plum]

I heard NT refused to lend his voice for role of Mufasa in Lion King as it was dubbed in Tamil. I heard he was really angry as some one approached him to lend his voice to equal James Earl Jones voice.

I would have loved to see NT playing the role of Anakin Skywalker/ Darthvader without the usual Tamil Film Sentiments. In my opinion he would have made a very good Darthvader

That's news and what news! Lion King, indeed. hmmm...namma koduthu vechadhu avLO dhaan.

[sivank]

I think it would have been great to watch NT playing Don Carleone, if God Father would have been produced in Tamil sans normal tamil film gimmicks. Kamal would have suited the role of Al Pacino and pehaps Rajini for James caan as Sonny Carleone

[Plum]

sivank, that sounds explosive. I'll let groucho detail that fantasy!

[sivank]

I also would have seen NT as the aging king Raja Raja who is sick of wars and his only ambition is to build the Peruvudaiyaar temple, while his able middle aged son Rajendra is taking care of the kingdom.

In my opinion, NT with white beard playing the frail but majestic Raja Raja and Kaml again playing Rajendra

[sivank]

In my opinion NT would have been great in the role of Thakur saab in Sholay. Particularly when he has to play thakur sans hands

[groucho070]

I think it would have been great to watch NT playing Don Carleone, if God Father would have been produced in Tamil sans normal tamil film gimmicks. Kamal would have suited the role of Al Pacino and pehaps Rajini for James caan as Sonny CarleoneToo bad, we saw this in a split way. We saw Sonny Corleone in form of the moody, tempered Rajini in Talabathi. The Don and son Michael part was beautifully re rendered albeit in a culturally rooted story in Devar Magan (as Godfather too was very culturally inclined). But my question is, if there was, let's say, Devar Magan 2...and they also used Godfather 2 template. Who would have played the young NT? :lol: Yosinngga, nalla yoosingga.

[groucho070]

It's about infidelty, with NT taking on the role of a naughty husband. But then it was naughty, as far as I can remember, not notorious like Chakravarthy.


Ok, this is what I meant when I said "sure there are some movies touching upon grey shades but nothin full blown". This is very apposite groucho. He should really have done Chakravarthy :-(Puriyuthu, birathar. Shades of grey arambittile irunthuchu. Like Koondu Kili, a role that was pretty risque for its time. But yeah, if he had born in the 50s, instead of debuting in that decade, we could have witnessed additional layers in the performance, as much as the censorship and the audiences' taste of the day can permit. Ithuvum remba mukkiyamaana criteria-thaney.

[groucho070]

I also would have seen NT as the aging king Raja Raja who is sick of wars and his only ambition is to build the Peruvudaiyaar temple, while his able middle aged son Rajendra is taking care of the kingdom.

In my opinion, NT with white beard playing the frail but majestic Raja Raja and Kaml again playing RajendraA missed opportunity in Rajaraja Cholan (1973). Pretty tame film with very youthful NT in the king's role, and an inept Siva Kumar doing Rajendra.

[hamid]

I think it would have been great to watch NT playing Don Carleone, if God Father would have been produced in Tamil sans normal tamil film gimmicks. Kamal would have suited the role of Al Pacino and pehaps Rajini for James caan as Sonny Carleone

That seems great..... If it had happened it definitely wud have rocked.. apt people for the characters...Groucho, y are you terming this as bad? i cant understand..:roll:

GodFather 2?? who wud have played young NT? If NT is not there then I think it shd be played by Kamal only..

[Plum]

And Departed(2002) with Sivaji, Prabhu and Karthik in the late 80's might have been cool, too...

[Benny Lava]

Prabhu and Karthik eppavum edhiri ney mudivu panniteengala :lol2:

[groucho070]

That seems great..... If it had happened it definitely wud have rocked.. apt people for the characters...Groucho, y are you terming this as bad? i cant understand..:roll: Aiyo, naan verum "bad"-nu sollala. I said, "Too bad" athu veera mathiri pannittangga. We did get a Godfather in form of Devar Magan, except Sonny's role was more like Rajini in Talabathi. Appadi split-ayiduchu.


GodFather 2?? who wud have played young NT? If NT is not there then I think it shd be played by Kamal only..My take is, Kamal already playing Michael's role, so you need someone else playing young NT. In fact, for Godfather, Brando was supposed to return to play a younger self (he was only 45 then, still youthful, and the excellent make up aged him twenty years). But they couldn't pay him among others...remember he was supposed to appear at the end, during the dinner scene.

[groucho070]

They say there is no role that Sivaji cannot play. Of course, it could be true and the degree of success may vary...but I am inclined to think that there is one role NT can never play: VC Ganesan.

Yes, himself. Watch Cinema Payithiyam for instance. In the guest role he will appear as himself. That is not Sivaji. That's Sivaji playing an actor called Sivaji. He was still in character even when playing himself. Then, I thought no way he can do that. Once in front of the camera, he becomes another character. Only time he is himself is when its a documentary and he is not working from a script.

[mr_karthik]

They say there is no role that Sivaji cannot play. Of course, it could be true and the degree of success may vary...but I am inclined to think that there is one role NT can never play: VC Ganesan.

Yes, himself. Watch Cinema Payithiyam for instance. In the guest role he will appear as himself. That is not Sivaji. That's Sivaji playing an actor called Sivaji. He was still in character even when playing himself. Then, I thought no way he can do that. Once in front of the camera, he becomes another character. Only time he is himself is when its a documentary and he is not working from a script.
It remainds me an incident in the shooting of Mudhal MariyAdhai...

Bharathiraja asked NT to walk to a distance upt to a mark (a tree or something) and shouted "start camera... action", but asked the cameraman not to start camera. When NT reached the mark, Bharathi shouted "cut... shot ok, annE thirumbi vAnga" but asked the cameraman to start camera and shoot, when NT returning with very relaxed walk.

When NT reched them, he saw camera was running. "Bharathi, yEn camera Odikkittirukku?". Director replied, "sorrynnE, neenga pOgumbOthu nadanadhu pOna action enakku thEvaiyillE, thrumbi relaxA nadandhu vandheenga theriyumA, adhuthAn enakku thEvaippattathu".

NT appreciated "padavA, enkittEyE un vElaiyai kAttariyA?".

[mr_karthik]

I think it would have been great to watch NT playing Don Carleone, if God Father would have been produced in Tamil sans normal tamil film gimmicks. Kamal would have suited the role of Al Pacino and pehaps Rajini for James caan as Sonny Carleone

When Producer Balaji remade 'Qurbani' as 'Vidudhalai' in Tamil, he approached Kamal for the roll of Vinodh khanna. But kamal refused to do it. (later it was done by Vishnuvarthan).

If kamal accepted it, then it will be one and only movie, having Shivaji-Kamal-Rajini combo. (another milestone like "koondukiLi')

[Avadi to America]

balaji planned to remake "sholay" in tamil starring rajini and kamal....

[Plum]

The best part about that is that Kamal and Rajni could both have easily played either of Dharam/Amit roles.
But Thakur role is too small for NT.

[groucho070]

With reference to this thread (http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=13461&start=90) and discussion with Raghavendra-sir, I wonder what it would have been like if NT had done those cowboy/western films with Karnan?

The nearest, I think, must have been Pattakatthi Bairavan, definitely not in my list of watchable films...ever.

[RAGHAVENDRA]

Dear Rakesh,
You will be wondered to read my answer. NT would have done those western movies with much ease than other contemporary stars. He knew horse riding and I saw him ride like a jockey while I was a boy at the shooting of Iru Duruvam near Dharmapuri. All the way along with the train he rided the horse without dupe. Audience cheered him with high round of applause. He was 43 at that time.
Of course horse riding is not the only qualification he had. His style would have made that cowboy film on par with that of Sergio Leone films but may be we would have needed a director of Leone calibre, which was and is not there. The result it would have been handed over to remake specialists and would have been a scene by scene copy.
Though Karnan would have say, for a 25 to 30 per cent fit in the role for vielding the megaphone, I am not sure how far he would have used NT, though as a cinematographer he is well versed with NT's acting talents.

In all NT would have easily slipped into the cowboy role but the film would not have fulfilled either as a cowboy or as an entertainer.

The result, we could not see NT in a westerner. We can satisfy how he'd have looked from the stills of Neelavaanam or Thanga Surangam.

Raghavendran

[groucho070]

Thanks for sharing and opinion, Raghavendra-sar.

In my opinion, Sreedhar would have done a bit of justice using NT in a western. In retrospect, Sivandha Man had that action elements in the open arena. The costume was mishmash of contemporary and retro, but with strong hints of cowboy/western, if I recall well.

For all we know, NT could have received such offers and he might have brushed it off saying it will not suit Tamizh nadu, and better leave it to one and only Jai.