Suththa thamizhachi thaamarai

[rajasaranam]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

[joe]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam .

[leosimha]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam .

why can't you bring it back?

[joe]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam .

why can't you bring it back?

I am not a MOD here :roll:

[leosimha]

[tscii:259e62d75b]since the thread "Situation in Sri Lanka" is inaccessible due to unknown reasons, I am posting the below point of view from a blogger...



May 21, 2009

If V Prabhakaran was wrong, Mahatma Gandhi was wrong too!

Death of the LTTE founder and leader V Prabhakaran was good news for many and bad news for few. It is good news for people who are ignorant about the past and who have limited vision about the future. Prabhakaran was of course born in Tamil Nadu, and a lot of Tamils had migrated to Sri Lanka, but then NOT all Tamils were migrants. There isn’t any history that all Tamils who lived and existed in Sri Lanka were from Tamil Nadu. In fact there isn’t any history about who are the natives of Sri Lanka – the Tamils or the Sinhalese. The truth is - they always existed together. Hence the language or the dialect the Sri Lankan Tamils use is different and far more superiors than Tamil spoken in Tamil Nadu.

I went through few forums on the Internet and spoke to few people, and most of them had similar views. “One who migrates to another country should not ask for separate nation.”Point taken. But who said – Tamils in Sri Lanka belonged to another country on the first place? Just because Sri Lanka is 13 kms away from Tamil Nadu, doesn’t mean all the Tamils living there swam to Sri Lanka.

Most believed that – the minority should go by what the majority says. And the natives have all the rights to form rules to which the minority should abide. Then why the hell did Mahatma Gandhi refuse to carry identity cards in South Africa? And also Mahatma Gandhi should have kept his mouth shut when he was thrown out of the 1st class compartment saying he was a coolie. And there surely is history that Indians were transported to South Africa predominantly to do the work of coolie. In the given scenario Gandhi had no rights to instigate unrest in a foreign land – which incidentally made him famous, a leader and father of the nation!

Another argument – LTTE was violent, and violence doesn’t win wars. I really wish Lord Krishna had gone on a hunger strike to win over Kauravas. And I really wish Lord Rama had gone on a hunger strike too to get Sita back from Ravana. If the world believes in non-violence, then was Saddam Hussein hanged? He should have sent to some psychologists or a rehabilitation center.

Most people usually confuse between non-violence and tolerance. Gandhi was not tolerant. He was violent and he was always ready to fight - the weapon he used was ‘non-violence.’ He didn’t choose non-violence out of choice though. In fact there weren’t any other choice left. If India was good at ammunition, and India was good at technology may be Gandhi would have used violence to get rid of Britishers. And if Gandhi really thought that non-violence is the only thing that can win wars, then he should have not agreed to send Indian military force to support the Britishers to fight against the Nazis.

If we agree that only natives should have the stronghold, and that natives alone have all the rights to dictate terms and suppress the minority, then Martin Luther King had no business to fight for the blacks in America. History says that the Africans were transported to America as slaves. They should have not complained about separate beaches for black, separate compartment in trains, and separate divisions in buses.

In India too – Dravidians are the native people historically. In this case Aryans should be the suppressed ones. Which is not the case today.

I was pondering about the main differences between Human beings and animals. It isn’t about the 5th sense of the 6th. It is about ‘truth’, ‘justice’ and ‘equality’. These three important factors do not exist in animal kingdom. And whenever injustice is forced upon fellow beings on the basis of caste, community, religion, and race – a new leader is born to fight injustice.

The Germans were screwed in the 1st world war and Hitler was born. The Tamils were suppressed in SL and Prabhakaran was born. People die, but truth doesn’t. Truth has to prevail for the human race to survive, so people will be born in different forms to fight - for life is eternal.

When my daughter asked me, why did the terrorists attack Hotel Taj? I didn’t tell her they are cranky. Or their religion is misinterpreted. Or they are Jehadis. I just said BJP, the political party who claim to be the representative of Hindus in India, brought down Babri Masjid based on a fictitious character. These attacks are just retaliation because not all think non-violence is the only way to win wars.

If we walk the talk, then those NRIs living in the US should stop carrying and celebrating Indian independence in foreign land for similar reason that we would never want Pakistanis to jam the roads on August 14th.

Posted by Kenni at May 21, 2009 07:46 AM
[/tscii:259e62d75b]

[leosimha]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam .

why can't you bring it back?

I am not a MOD here :roll:

:oops: sorry I didn't know that. I thought you are a MOD of this thread also.

[groucho070]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam . :D

[Thalafanz]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam .

Atleast the mod can make it visible and lock it(if they want). It contains so much info.

[leosimha]

joe,

Wat happened to 'Situation in Srilanka' Thread?

No idea ..vazhga Jananayagam .

Atleast the mod can make it visible and lock it(if they want). It contains so much info.

yes yes....

[joe]

It contains so much info.

சில பேருக்கு அது உறுத்தலா இருந்திருக்கலாம் .

[MADDY]

It contains so much info.

சில பேருக்கு அது உறுத்தலா இருந்திருக்கலாம் .

andha thread mela desiya paadhugaappu sattam paanjirukkum :)

[leosimha]

Col Karuna says Lankan army killed Tamil civilians
2009-05-22 12:55:00
Last Updated: 2009-05-22 14:52:26

Colombo: A former Tamil Tiger leader who defected to become a Sri Lankan government minister has officially admitted that a significant numbers of civilians were killed during the final offensive against the rebels.

Vinayagamoorthy Muralitharan, alias Colonel Karuna, told The Telegraph that President Mahinda Rajapaksa had made a mistake when he claimed no one had died at the hands of the army.

He said Tamil Tigers claims of 20,000 deaths were an overestimate, but added: "There are casualties, and we have to appreciate the casualties because without them you can't rescue the people. They made a mistake. The president knows the damage."

Prabhakaran: The man is dead, the myth destroyed

He said he did not know the exact numbers, but according to the United Nations, between 8,000 and 10,000 civilians died in the Sri Lankan army advance across the north of the island between January and May.

Some are believed to have been shot by Tamil Tiger fighters as they tried to flee the battle zone, while many died in army mortar attacks.

"I feel very sad for the people of the north. They are Tamil people and [the Tamil Tigers] did very bad things to them. When civilians tried to escape, including children, they were shot," he said.


how true is this info?


Muralitharan, now a Minister for Constitutional Affairs and National Integration and vice-president of the ruling Sri Lankan Freedom Party, also challenged officials who earlier this week said more than a quarter of a million displaced civilians could be held in overcrowded camps for up to two years.

Tamils wary of Rajapakse's offer

He called for them to be resettled quickly and said the wasted north of the island must be swiftly redeveloped to unify the country and help Tamils forget the past.

"There are a lot of landmines there, but after clearing, we can resettle. There's no need for two years, after one we can resettle," he said.

He said 95 percent of the buildings in three districts were destroyed and new schools, hospitals, roads, were needed while water, electricity and communications services would have to be restored. "The whole infrastructure needs completely rebuilding," he said.

Muralitharan spoke shortly after he returned from identifying the dead body of his former leader, Velupillai Prabhakaran.


Link - http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?a=jfwmTdafgij&title=Col_Karuna_says_Lankan_army_killed_Tamil_civ ilians&tag=topnews&?vsv=TopHP1

[P_R]

It contains so much info.

சில பேருக்கு அது உறுத்தலா இருந்திருக்கலாம் .

andha thread mela desiya paadhugaappu sattam paanjirukkum :) :lol:

[Rocky89]

It contains so much info.

சில பேருக்கு அது உறுத்தலா இருந்திருக்கலாம் .

andha thread mela desiya paadhugaappu sattam paanjirukkum :) :lol:

:lol: :lol:

[Rocky89]

LTTE leadership safe: Tiger intelligence official
[TamilNet, Friday, 22 May 2009, 09:49 GMT]
Head of International Secretariat of the Intelligence wing of the LTTE, Mr. Arivazhakan, who contacted TamilNet Friday categorically denied the reports that the LTTE leader Mr. Velupillai Pirapharan has been killed. Mr. Arivazhakan urged the global Tamil community not to trust the "engineered rumours," being spread by the Government of Sri Lanka and its military establishment.

"Our beloved leader is alive," he said and added that the LTTE leadership will make contact with its people at a suitable time in future.

"These rumours have been set afloat to confuse the global Tamil community which has been voicing support for the liberation of Tamil Eelam," he further said.

Mr. Arivazhakan, who verified his identity through a senior reporter in Sri Lanka, did not reveal his location due to security reasons.

http://tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=29430

[Sanjeevi]

So its official. THe official like site of LTTE now says LTTE thalaivar Prabhakaran is alive


Rocky89

I was to post the same :)

[joe]

So its official. THe official like site of LTTE now says LTTE thalaivar Prabhakaran is alive

Fr.jagath Kaspar confirmed the same in Nakeeran.

[joe]

[tscii:1518563bd8]பிரபாகரன்...நடந்தது என்ன?- அருட்தந்தை ஜெகத் கஸ்பர்

வன்னியில் இறுதி யுத்தம் நடைபெற்றுக் கொண்டிருந்தபோது விடுதலைப் புலிகளின் தலைவர் பிரபாகரனை மிகுந்த பாதுகாப்புடன் அவரது தளபதிகள் வெளியேற்றிவிட்டதாகவும், அவருடன் முக்கியமான தலைவர்கள் சென்றுள்ளதாகவும் அருட்தந்தை ஜெகத் கஸ்பர்ராஜ் நக்கீரன் இதழில் எழுதியுள்ள கட்டுரையில் தெரிவித்துள்ளார்.

இறுதிநாளில் யுத்தத்தை நிறுத்த கனிமொழி எம்பி, சுப வீரபாண்டியன் ஆகியோருடன் தானும் முயன்றதாக அவர் குறிப்பிட்டுள்ளார். குறிப்பாக நடேசன் மற்றும் புலித்தேவன் சமாதானம் பேசச் சென்றது இந்திய அரசில் முக்கியப் பங்கு வகிக்கும் ஒருவர் அளித்த உறுதிமொழியின்பேரில்தான் என்று அவர் குறிப்பிட்டுள்ளார்.

ஜெகத் கஸ்பர்ராஜ் எழுதியுள்ள கட்டுரையின் ஒரு பகுதி:

ராஜபக்சேக்களுக்கு லாவணி பாடும் ஆனந்தசங்கரிகளே… இருக்கிறவரை ஏதேனும் நாற்காலியில் இருந்துவிட்டுப் போங்கள். தங்க முலாம் பூசிய கக்கூஸ் வாளிகளுக்கும் கருணை செய்து ஓய்வூதியம் தர வேலுப்பிள்ளை பிரபாகரன் விரைவில் வருவான். உங்களுக்காக வரவில்லையென்றாலும் முல்லைத்தீவு முற்றுகையின் கடைசி நாள் நடந்த மன்னிக்க முடியா துரோகத்திற்கு நீதி செய்யவேனும் அவன் வருவான்.

கடைசி நாளில் -அதாவது கடந்த சனிக்கிழமை நடந்தது இதுதான்.

வேலுப்பிள்ளை பிரபாகரனும் எதிர்காலத்தில் போராட்டத்தையும் இயக்கத்தையும் மீள் கட்டமைப்பு செய்வதற்கு முக்கியமானவர்களான சில தளபதியர்களும் பாதுகாப்பாக அகன்றபின் களத்தின் இறுக்கம் தணிகிறது.

இறுதி யுத்தம்… என்ன நடந்தது?

கை ஒடிந்து, கால் முறிந்து, உடலின் சில பகுதிகள் சிதைந்து ரத்தம் வழிந்தே பாதி செத்துப் போன சுமார் 12,000 அப்பாவி மக்களையும், அவ்வாறே காயமுற்ற சுமார் 3,000 போராளிகளையும் எப்படியேனும் அப்புறப்படுத்திக் காப்பாற்றும் முடிவினை விடுதலைப்புலிகள் எடுக்கிறார்கள். கடற்புலித் தளபதி சூசை மதுரையில் ஒருவரோடு தொடர்பு கொண்டு காயமுற்ற மக்களையேனும் பாதுகாப்பாய் வெளியேற்ற 48 மணி நேர சண்டை நிறுத்தம் வேண்டுகிறார்.

மதுரை தமிழரோ உணர்வாளர் சுப.வீ. என்ற சுப.வீரபாண்டியன் அவர்களை மன்றாட சுப.வீ. அவர்கள் கனிமொழி அவர்களின் கருணையை கேட்கிறார். கனிமொழி அவர்கள் காங்கிரஸ் கட்சியின் முக்கியமான ஒருவரோடு பேச ‘அதிகாரப்பூர்வமற்ற’, ஆனால் யதார்த்தமான முடிவொன்று தரப்பட்டது.

“விடுதலைப் புலிகளின் அனைத்துலக பொறுப்பாளர் செல்வராஜா பத்மநாபன் கொழும்பிலுள்ள இந்திய தூதுவருக்கு ஆயுதங்களை ஒப்படைக்க தயாராக உள்ளோம் என்ற முடிவினை எழுத்துப்பூர்வமாய் தொலைநகல் (பேக்ஸ்) வழி உடனே தெரிவிக்க வேண்டும். மற்றவையெல்லாம் இந்தியா பார்த்துக் கொள்ளும்”.

இரவு 10 மணி ஆயிற்று.

இந்தக் கட்டத்தில் நானும் இணைந்தேன். லண்டனிலுள்ள எனது நண்பர்கள் மூலம் செல்வராஜா பத்மநாபன் அவர்களுக்கு தகவல் சொல்லப்பட அவரும் மின்னல் வேகத்தில் இயங்கினார்.

“இந்தியாவிடமே நாங்கள் ஆயுதங்களை ஒப்படைக்கத் தயாராக இருக்கிறோம். அது சாத்தியமில்லையென்றால் ஐ.நா. ஏற்பாட்டில் ஒப்படைக்கிறோம்” என்ற முடிவை விடுதலைப் புலிகள் இரவு 11.50-க்குத் தெரிவித்தார்கள். கனிமொழி தயக்கத்துடன் காங்கிரஸ் பெரியவரை தொடர்பு கொள்ள அவரும் விழித்தே இருந்தார். “கால அவகாசமில்லை. இந்தியாவிடம் சரணடைவதற்கான சாத்தியப்பாடுகள் இப்போது இல்லை. இலங்கை ராணுவத்திடமே சரணடைவதுதான் இப்போதைய நெருக்கடி நிலையில் ஆகக் கூடியது” என்கிறார் அப்பெரியவர்.

மக்களை காக்க வேண்டி இலங்கை ராணுவத்திடமே ஆயுதங்களை ஒப்படைக்கும் முடிவினை சனி நள்ளிரவு புலிகள் எடுத்தார்கள். ஞாயிறு காலை கொழும்பு இந்திய தூதரகத்தின் உதவியுடன் இலங்கைத் தமிழர் பாராளுமன்ற உறுப்பினர் கஜன் பொன்னம்பலம், ராஜபக்சேவோடு பேச்சுவார்த்தைகள் நடத்த முடிவொன்று ஏற்படுகிறது.

“முல்லைத்தீவு களத்தில் நிற்கும் புலிகளின் தளபதிகள் வெள்ளைக்கொடி பிடித்துக் கொண்டு இலங்கை தளபதிகளிடம் வரட்டும். ஆயுதங் ஒப்படைப்பது, காயமுற்றோரை அப்புறப்படுத்துவது தொடர்பான நடைமுறை ஒழுங்குகளை அவர்களே கலந்து பேசி முடிவு செய்யட்டும்’ என்பதாக அந்த ஏற்பாடு.

இம்முடிவினை ராஜபக்சே அலுவலகம் ராணுவத் தலைமைக்கும், முல்லைத் தீவு கட்டளைத் தளபதிகளுக்கும் அறிவிக்கிறது. இந்த ஏற்பாடுகள் முடியவே ஞாயிறு இரவாகி விடுகிறது.

ராஜபக்சேவுடன் நடந்த விவாதங்களையும் முடிவுகளையும் கஜன் என்ற கஜேந்திரன் பொன்னம்பலம், செல்வராஜா பத்மநாபனுக்குத் தெரிவிக்க முல்லைத்தீவு களத்தில் நின்ற விடுதலைப் புலிகளின் அரசியற் பிரிவுப் பொறுப்பாளர் நடேசனுடன் இவற்றை திங்கள் அதிகாலை 2.30 மணிக்கு விவாதிக்கிறார் பத்மநாபன்.

வெள்ளைக் கொடிகளுடன் வந்தவர்களை சுட்டுத்தள்ளிய இன வெறியர்கள்…

யுத்தம் 500 மீட்டர் அருகில் வந்த போதும் கூட உலகோடு உரையாடும் செயற்கைக்கோள் வசதிகளை விடுதலைப்புலிகள் கொண்டிருந்தார்கள் என்பது ஒரு ராணுவ அரசியல் இயக்கமாக எத்துணை ஆழமாக வளர்ந்திருந்தார்கள் என்பதற்குச் சான்றாகத் தெரிந்தது.

விடிந்ததும் நடேசன், சிறப்புத் தளபதி ரமேஷ் -இவர் முன்பு கருணாவின் துணை தளபதியாக இருந்தவர், புலிகளின் சமாதானச் செயலகப் பொறுப்பாளர் புலித்தேவன் மூவரும் வெள்ளைக் கொடி ஏந்தி சிங்களத் தளபதியர்களை சந்திக்கச் செல்வதாய் ஏற்பாடு.

வெடிபொருள் புகை கவிந்த முல்லைத் தீவு பரப்பு விடிந்தது. வெள்ளைக் கொடி ஏந்தி மூவரும் நடந்தார்கள். சிங்களத் தளபதியர்களின் கூடாரம் அருகே வந்தார்கள். ஏன், என்னவென்ற பேச்சின்றி சுட்டுக் கொல்லப்பட்டார்கள். பின்னர்தான் தெரிய வந்தது அவர்களைச் சுட்டுக் கொல்லும் உத்தரவை ராஜபக்சேவின் சகோதரனும் ராணுவ அமைச்சருமான கோத்தபய்யா ராஜபக்சே பிறப்பித்திருந்த சதி.

சர்வதேச போர்க் குற்றம்…

வெள்ளைக் கொடியேந்தி சரணடையவோ, பேச்சுவார்த்தை நடத்தவோ வருகிறவர்களுக்குத் தீங்கிழைப்பது யுத்தக் குற்றம். அனைத்துலக சட்டதிட்டங்கள் இதனை கடுமையாக வலியுறுத்துகின்றன. ஆனால் சிங்கள இனவெறி பிடித்தாடும் கோத்தபய்யாவை பொறுத்தவரை தமிழருக்காகப் பேச எவருமே உயிரோடு இருக்கக்கூடாது.

நடேசனும், புலித்தேவனும் சரணடைந்து கைது செய்யப்பட்டாலும் அவர்கள் யுத்தக் கைதிகளாகவே நடத்தப்பட வேண்டும். நாளை அனைத்துலக ஏற்பாட்டில் அரசியல் தீர்வுக்கான பேச்சுவார்த்தைகள் தொடங்கும் போது புலிகள் தரப்பிலும் பிரதிநிதிகள் இருக்க வேண்டுமென உலக நாடுகள் நிச்சயம் வலியுறுத்தும். அத்தகு சூழலில் தகுதியோடு தமிழரை பிரதிநிதித்துவப்படுத்த எவருமே இருக்கக்கூடாதென்பதுதான் கோத்தபய்யாவின் கணக்கு. முக்கிய செய்தி என்னவென்றால் இந்தியா சொல்வதையோ, அண்ணன் ராஜபக்சே சொல்வதையோ கேட்பதற்கு கோத்தபய்யா தயாராக இல்லை என்பதுதான்.

புல்டோஸர்கள் ஏற்றி மக்களைக் கொன்ற சிங்களர்கள் ராணுவம்...

கொடுமை அத்தோடு முடியவில்லை காயமுற்று பாதி உயிரோடு முனகிக் கிடந்த பத்தாயிரத்திற்கும் மேலான அப்பாவி மக்களை புல்டோசர்கள், செயின் புளக்-கள் ஏற்றிக் கொன்றுவிட்டு ஆதாரங் கள் ஏதுமின்றி அதிநவீன ரசாயனக் கலவைகள் ஊற்றி எரித்திருக்கிறார்கள். அவ்வாறே காய முற்றிருந்த சுமார் 3,000 போராளிகளையும் கருணை இரக்கமின்றி சுட்டுக் கொன்று வெறி தீர்த்திருக்கிறார்கள். வேறெதற்கும் இல்லையெனினும் கோத்தபய்யாவிற்கு நீதி சொல்லவேனும் வேலுப்பிள்ளை பிரபாகரன் வருவான், நிச்சயமாய் வருவான்.

மரணத்தில் நிழலில் வளர்ந்த அதிசயப் பிறவி பிரபாகரன்

மரணத்தின் நிழலில் வளர்ந்த அதீதப் பிறவி பிரபாகரன். மாத்தையா அவரது வாகனத்திற்கு அடியிலேயே வெடிகுண்டு பொருத்தினார். ஆனால் வெடிக்கவில்லை. ஏன் வெடிக்கவில்லை என்பதற்கு மனித அறிவு சார்ந்த விளக்கம் எதுவுமில்லை. சாவகச்சேரி நகர் வளைவு திறக்கும் நிகழ்வின் போது அவரோடு மூத்த தளபதிகள் யாவரதும் கதை முடிக்க மாத்தையா ஏற்பாடு செய்திருந்தார்.

விழாவுக்குப் புறப்படும் போது மோசமான வயிற்று நோவு வர விழாவிற்கு அவர் வரவில்லை. வந்திருந்தால் அன்றே அவர் வரலாறு முடிந்திருக்கும். திருநெல்வேலி தாக்குதலின் போது அவரது துப்பாக்கியில் ரவை தீர்கிறது. குனிந்து ரவை நிரப்புகிறார். புறத்தே மின்னல் தெரிகிறது. சக தோழர்களின் பறக்கிற ரவைகள் என நினைக்கிறார். காலையில் பார்த்தால், தான் குனிந்தபோதுதான் நின்ற இடத்திலேயே எதிரியின் ரவைகள் பாய்ந்து வந்திருக்கின்றன. அக்கணம் குனிந்திராவிட்டால் அன்றே அவர் முடிந்திருப்பார்.

“கடவுள் காத்து வருகிறார் எனக் கருதலாமா?” என 2002-ல் அவரிடம் கேட்டேன்.

“இன்னும் நான் செய்ய வேண்டிய கடமைகள் இருக்கிறதென இயற்கை நினைக்கிறது போலும்…” என்றார்.

தமிழர்களே, நண்பர்களே, முல்லைத்தீவில் கதை முடியவில்லை. புதிய கதை தொடங்குகிறது. உலகத் தமிழினம் இனி நடக்கப் போவது புதிய தடங்களில்…[/tscii:1518563bd8]

[rajasaranam]

ஜணநாயகத்தில் இது போல் 'திரி'கள் காணாமல் போவதும் இலங்கையில் பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் காணாமல் போவதும் சகஜமப்பா!
அடுத்த திரிய ஆரம்பிக்கலாம். நம் எதிர்ப்பை பதிவு செய்வதற்க்கு அதுதான் ஒரே வழி :)

[joe]

ஜணநாயகத்தில் இது போல் 'திரி'கள் காணாமல் போவதும் இலங்கையில் பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் காணாமல் போவதும் சகஜமப்பா!
அடுத்த திரிய ஆரம்பிக்கலாம். நம் எதிர்ப்பை பதிவு செய்வதற்க்கு அதுதான் ஒரே வழி :)

:D

[Plum]

"One who migrates to another country should not ask for separate nation"
Idhellam remba over. nama ellame african kaatulerundhu dhaan varrom. Namakku mattum edhukku separate nation, lottu losukku ellam?

[joe]

"One who migrates to another country should not ask for separate nation"
Idhellam remba over. nama ellame african kaatulerundhu dhaan varrom. Namakku mattum edhukku separate nation, lottu losukku ellam?

Plum,
So you also think That North Srilankan tamils are migrants :x :evil:
Approximately how many years back they migrated ,as per your source?

[joe]

Plum,
Current north Srilanka is Tamil's land ,where they had kingdom for many centuries . They are not asking new country ..They wanted their original homeland back.

[Plum]

"One who migrates to another country should not ask for separate nation"
Idhellam remba over. nama ellame african kaatulerundhu dhaan varrom. Namakku mattum edhukku separate nation, lottu losukku ellam?

Plum,
So you also think That North Srilankan tamils are migrants :x :evil:
Approximately how many years back they migrated ,as per your source?

aiyayo Joe naan sonnadhu vera. I am questioning the very concept of 'migrants'. Who is to say who is migrant?

That is, ellorume africa-lerundhu dhaan vandhom appo India-la namma kooda migrants dhaane. (Indians)ku mattum edhukku thani nation lottu losukku - read like that

[P_R]

Joe, if I understand Plum's point I think what he is saying "It does not matter". The claim for a separate land has to less to do with history. The possibility of coexisting peacefully and respectably as equal citizens is what matters. So instead of basing the claim on history (which is dangerous because most principal questions are matters of research that cut both ways), it is more sensible to address based on situation of today.

sariyA Plum ?

[Plum]

PR, adhe dhaan. But it is easy for me to say that sitting here.

[joe]

Sorry Plum :oops:

Even among tamils ,many thought that Srilankan Tamils went there just few years back and asking a seperate nation .

So I thought you also have same opinion ,but trying to justify their demand.

sorry :)

[Plum]

Joe, I think the key line of thinking i have is so what if you stayed in that land day before yesterday. Today, by circumstance, we are sharing the land. Let's work out a solution where you are happy, I'm happy. This is the duty of both sides.

[equanimus]

Joe,
But I think the presence of two "kinds" of Tamils in Sri Lanka is a point that's mostly ignored by Tamil Eelam supporters and social commentators here in TN. Note that I'm not trying to question the "native-ness" of Tamils at all, but I find the difference crucial for wholly different reasons.

[Plum]

equanimus, explain. I am not well conversant with this issue.

[sivank]

Upto my knowledge there are three "kinds" of tamil speaking people:

1. Tamils from north and east, who settled around 3rd to 4th century AD

2. Muslim Tamils mostly from east and also from colombo and Ratna pura

3. Tamils from south india who were taken to Srilanka during the 18th century by British to work in the Tea Estates. (Minister Thondamaan is aone of them)

[joe]

Joe, I think the key line of thinking i have is so what if you stayed in that land day before yesterday. Today, by circumstance, we are sharing the land. Let's work out a solution where you are happy, I'm happy. This is the duty of both sides.

True ..but if you are a son of soil for centuries ,it is added point. வட இலங்கை தமிழர்கள் (கிழக்கில் இருக்கும் இந்தியாவிலிருந்து பிரிட்டிஷ் காலத்தில் சென்ற தோட்டத்தொழிலாளர்கள் போலல்லாமல்) அந்த நிலப்பரப்பின் பூர்வ குடிகள் .ஆண்டாண்டு காலமாக தனி அரசமைத்து வாழ்ந்தவர்கள் . பிரிட்டிஷாரிடமிருந்து சுதந்திரம் பெற்ற போது சிங்களர்களும் தாங்களும் ஒன்றாக இருக்கலாம் என நம்பினர் .ஆனால் பெரும்பான்மை சிங்களர்கள் தங்கள் சுயரூபத்தை காட்ட ஆரம்பிக்க ,அரசியல் ரீதியான போராட்டங்கள் அடக்கு முறைகளால் தோற்ற போது தாங்கள் இழந்த நாட்டை கேட்டார்கள்.

[equanimus]

Upto my knowledge there are three "kinds" of tamil speaking people:

1. Tamils from north and east, who settled around 3rd to 4th century AD

2. Muslim Tamils mostly from east and also from colombo and Ratna pura

3. Tamils from south india who were taken to Srilanka during the 18th century by British to work in the Tea Estates. (Minister Thondamaan is aone of them)
sivank,
Yeah I know. But since the Tamil Muslims never quite identified with the Tamil Eelam cause, I discounted them here. I believe this is the reason why they are identified as a separate ethnic group even.

[joe]

Joe,
But I think the presence of two "kinds" of Tamils in Sri Lanka is a point that's mostly ignored by Tamil Eelam supporters and social commentators here in TN. .

இல்லை .மறுக்கிறேன் .வரலாற்றை அறியாமல் 'தமிழன்' என்ற உணர்ச்சி உந்துதலில் மட்டும் ஆதரிப்பவர்களுக்கு தெரியாமல் இருக்கலாம் .ஆனால் தலைவர்களுக்கும் ,ஓரளவு முன்னின்று நடத்தும் படித்தவர்களுக்கு கண்டிப்பாக தெரியும்.

[sivank]

[tscii:59bc2f7b97]Equa, even the Tamils from south haven´t identified much with the Tamil Eelam cause. That is the biggest problem for the Tamils from North,[/tscii:59bc2f7b97]

[joe]

இலங்கையின் முஸ்லீம்கள் பேசு மொழி தமிழே தவிர அவர்கள் தங்களை 'தமிழர்' என்ற இனத்தில் அடையாளப்படுத்திக்கொள்வதில்லை .இலங்கயில் அதிகார பூர்வமாக மூன்று முக்கிய இனங்கள் சிங்களர் ,தமிழர் ,முஸ்லிம் .

[Nerd]

Joe,
I have a friend of mine who is a SL Tamil not belonging to the eezham region. He considers prabhakaran as a terrorist and claims that's the general perception in his area.

[P_R]

Relevant here is Anna's speech in the parliament when Cong passed a law making it unlawful for a party to talk about cessation.


Secondly, I want to point out that so soon after expressing our willingness to meet round the conference table an aggressor should you not try, as member of this great nation, to understand us before you try to ban the very propaganda itself? Are we so debased that we should br treated as untouchables in the political arena? Is not our demand so serious that you should try to convince us, convert the people? Are we not amenable to reason? Have you attempted that? That is my humble submission to this House.


Convince me and then say that my demand is unthinkable. But do not bring in this measure and then say: What are you going to do with this measure? My friend, Mr.Bhupesh Gupta, was saying that we may go underground. Now, we always remain on the ground. We propose not to go underground. But surely the sullen discontent will go underground.

The whole speech (http://www.arignaranna.info/parliment1.htm) is enjoyable. We really lost a sound and articulate politician.

[joe]

Joe,
I have a friend of mine who is a SL Tamil not belonging to the eezham region. He considers prabhakaran as a terrorist and claims that's the general perception in his area.

Very much possible .There are various other tamil groups against LTTE and some people from Colombo are not much attached with eelam.

[Plum]

"We really lost a sound and articulate politician."
Really true. I wasnt well informed on him until I read a few speeches like this. Really a gem of an orator and articulator. I can easily guess what a leader he would have made. Tamizhnattin thalai ezhuthu avarellam appove poi serndhuttar.

[equanimus]

இலங்கையின் முஸ்லீம்கள் பேசு மொழி தமிழே தவிர அவர்கள் தங்களை 'தமிழர்' என்ற இனத்தில் அடையாளப்படுத்திக்கொள்வதில்லை .இலங்கயில் அதிகார பூர்வமாக மூன்று முக்கிய இனங்கள் சிங்களர் ,தமிழர் ,முஸ்லிம் .
Yes, this was my understanding too.

[sivank]

If the Tamil speakling communities are scattered where is the possiblity of a separate Tamil Nation?

[rajasaranam]

If the Tamil speakling communities are scattered where is the possiblity of a separate Tamil Nation?

The demand is only for the 'Tamil' speaking communities of North-East who are natural inhabitants of that region. The demand 'now' is not for 'Akanda Thamizhagam' (Which is virtually impossible in todays conditions) as advocated by some radical groups

[Nerd]

If the Tamil speakling communities are scattered where is the possiblity of a separate Tamil Nation?
Per my understanding, only the people belonging to category #1 in your earlier post demand for a separate nation. MathavangaLum join pannanum-nu avanga sollalai. SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

[Plum]

"Mr. B.D.KHOBARAGADE(Maharashtra)
Then the Congress itself must be supporting disintegration"
Idhellam kozhandha thanamana vaadham. HUB level-e better pola irukku.

[joe]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

No. They have problems ,but not integrated with seperate eelam demand by North Tamils.

Estate Tamils in east were taken out from voters list long back ..So they have their own protests ..LTTE had disputes with Muslims and some unwanted happenings occured ,so Mulisms went seperate and they have their own parties . East tamils are not entirely away from LTTE ,still many supports LTTE and wanted to include some eastern parts in EElam ,as LTTE claim..But muslims went far away from North tamils and LTTE.

[littlemaster1982]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

This was the main point put forth by GoSL supporters in my office in an argument yesterday. I didn't have an answer :oops:

[joe]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

This was the main point put forth by GoSL supporters in my office in an argument yesterday. I didn't have an answer :oops:

when India fought for feedom ,there are people who supported and worked for British ..Namma aazhungaLai adicha ,arrest pannina police-lam british karana? ellam namma aazhunga thaan...athunala enna?

[P_R]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

This was the main point put forth by GoSL supporters in my office in an argument yesterday. I didn't have an answer :oops:

GoSL supporters kitta indha argumentukkuLLayE iRanga vENdiyadhillai.Whatever be the reasons, is cluster bombing the way to treat your citizens (i.e. those you insist should be your citizens).

[littlemaster1982]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

This was the main point put forth by GoSL supporters in my office in an argument yesterday. I didn't have an answer :oops:

when India fought for feedom ,there are people who supported and worked for British ..Namma aazhungaLai adicha ,arrest pannina police-lam british karana? ellam namma aazhunga thaan...athunala enna?

The apathy showed by them was shocking and I was ashamed that I didn't know the complete background of this issue.

[littlemaster1982]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

This was the main point put forth by GoSL supporters in my office in an argument yesterday. I didn't have an answer :oops:

GoSL supporters kitta indha argumentukkuLLayE iRanga vENdiyadhillai.Whatever be the reasons, is cluster bombing the way to treat your citizens (i.e. those you insist should be your citizens).

I asked the same. Their answer was GoSL has no other option and the people who support the terrorists will be treated this way only. :banghead: :banghead: Idhula vikraman pada vasanam vera. "Kaal punnagi poi romba mosamaana, adhai vettaradhai thavira vera vazhi illa" :x


I stopped arguing with them after this response.

[Nerd]

PR,
I was going to say that. Tank Yu. Prabhakaran might also be seen as someone who has killed a considerable number of civilians but that's not his intention (unlike..). Never, AFAIK, IMHO.

[rajasaranam]

SL Tamils (read Muslims and a few in Colombo and other cities) have no problems against the SL government.

This was the main point put forth by GoSL supporters in my office in an argument yesterday. I didn't have an answer :oops:

There will be always peoples or groups who accept their slavery. Historically the time is not yet ripe for rightful demands of Colombo--Kandy/Muslim Tamils. The North-Eastern Tamils have always excluded these ethnic groups from their demands.

[rajasaranam]

PR,
I was going to say that. Tank Yu. Prabhakaran might also be seen as someone who has killed a considerable number of civilians but that's not his intention (unlike..). Never, AFAIK, IMHO.

He has done it intentionally too many a times :huh: Fascism has to be seen in a comparative state only. VP is better in comparison to GosL - Avvalave.

[P_R]

PR,
I was going to say that. Tank Yu. Prabhakaran might also be seen as someone who has killed a considerable number of civilians but that's not his intention (unlike..). Never, AFAIK, IMHO.

I wouldn't be too sure of that either

[MADDY]

Fascism has to be seen in a comparative state only

elobarate pls...

[equanimus]

Joe,
But I think the presence of two "kinds" of Tamils in Sri Lanka is a point that's mostly ignored by Tamil Eelam supporters and social commentators here in TN. .

இல்லை .மறுக்கிறேன் .வரலாற்றை அறியாமல் 'தமிழன்' என்ற உணர்ச்சி உந்துதலில் மட்டும் ஆதரிப்பவர்களுக்கு தெரியாமல் இருக்கலாம் .ஆனால் தலைவர்களுக்கும் ,ஓரளவு முன்னின்று நடத்தும் படித்தவர்களுக்கு கண்டிப்பாக தெரியும்.
Joe,
I'm not saying they are not aware of it, or lack knowledge about it. My point is that, I think it's not being considered as seriously it should be. However please note that I am NOT really well informed on this subject... So please spank my head gently if I'm not making sense!


equanimus, explain. I am not well conversant with this issue.
Well, one important thing before I try to explain where I come from. Like I said above, I am NOT well informed about the conflict there (and even less so about the history) either. I must admit that some of my understandings are quite "intuitive" even (that is, resulting out of my trying to figure out how it'd have happened). So if I'm way off the mark, please pardon my ignorance. And I hope well-informed hubbers would clarify about the errors in my reading.

As far as I know, the Sinhalese-Tamil conflict originated from the power struggle between the elite of Sinhalese and Tamils as the Sinhalese tried to marginalise the presence of Tamils in the bureaucracy and in general in politics. The early Sinhalese governments (post-independence) of course took drastic steps to achieve their end. One of which was stripping the estate Tamils (bonded labourers who were taken by the Britsh to Sri Lanka to work on tea plantations) off their citizenship. And subsequently there were multiple attempts to send them back to India. SL govt. had multiple agreements with the Indian govt. to arrive at some middle-ground (part of the population would stay, and the rest would be sent back over a time period). Much of this didn't happen, but these estate Tamils continued to live without the basic rights. Wikipedia informs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Sri_Lankan_civil_war) that "[it] was not until 2003 that full citizenship rights were restored to the remaining Tamils in the hill country."

Now, I imagine the interests of these people (the Indian Tamils) all along would have greatly differed from those of the Sri Lankan Tamils. That's why I said that it's crucial to differentiate between the two.

[Nerd]

Do you mean to compare cluster bombing etc. which was meant to get rid of a large chunk of a *race* to what prabhakaran's been trying to achieve? And IIRC he himself explained his intentions in that famous sun TV interview.

[rajasaranam]

Fascism has to be seen in a comparative state only

elobarate pls...

When a 'Fascist' Govt of SL started off its intentional exclusion and pogroms against the Tamil people of the Eelam, It had its roots in ethnic supremacy and majoritarianism. It was also a backlash against Jaffna tamil elitism which was non-violent in nature. (Intha Ina/Mozhi/Jaathi perumitham irukkaey athu oru thani topic'a alasanum). GoSL took some drastic measures through constitutionally asserting their supremacy over tamils and lawfully excluding tamils from gaining significant ratio in economy. This led to protests by tamils which were suppressed by Govt. Sanctioned violence.

Prabhakarans beginning was not Fascistic in nature. He was a youth with lot of questions against these oppression of his people. Having lots and lots of courage and inclination towards Adventurism & Heroism. After he took up the cause of Tamil people and slowly his organisation grew, fascistic and dictatorship like attitudes also creeped in himself and the LTTE. There were atleast 15 to 20 groups fighting for the cause of tamils, LTTE by intimidating and killing the other groups, emerged as the single voice for oppressed Tamil. (India had a bigger hand in sprucing up these Gang Wars) They reasoned out saying that 'peoples struggle should not be split into various organisations and it is better to be under a single baton to win the war against GoSL.' However true this seems, the methods used for this was fascistic in nature. All dissents were silenced within and outside the organisation. Forceful recruitments, extortions, money laundering, drug trafficking - what not, every possible means were used to keep up the cause and fight for tamil Eelam going by 'Ends justify means'.

This is where I say Both are Fascists and in a comparative mode LTTE seems better than GoSL, as the formers goal was freedom for their people and the later's goal was ethnic cleansing of their people.

[MADDY]

Fascism has to be seen in a comparative state only

elobarate pls...

When a 'Fascist' Govt of SL started off its intentional exclusion and pogroms against the Tamil people of the Eelam, It had its roots in ethnic supremacy and majoritarianism. It was also a backlash against Jaffna tamil elitism which was non-violent in nature. (Intha Ina/Mozhi/Jaathi perumitham irukkaey athu oru thani topic'a alasanum). GoSL took some drastic measures through constitutionally asserting their supremacy over tamils and lawfully excluding tamils from gaining significant ratio in economy. This led to protests by tamils which were suppressed by Govt. Sanctioned violence.

Prabhakarans beginning was not Fascistic in nature. He was a youth with lot of questions against these oppression of his people. Having lots and lots of courage and inclination towards Adventurism & Heroism. After he took up the cause of Tamil people and slowly his organisation grew, fascistic and dictatorship like attitudes also creeped in himself and the LTTE. There were atleast 15 to 20 groups fighting for the cause of tamils, LTTE by intimidating and killing the other groups, emerged as the single voice for oppressed Tamil. (India had a bigger hand in sprucing up these Gang Wars) They reasoned out saying that 'peoples struggle should not be split into various organisations and it is better to be under a single baton to win the war against GoSL.' However true this seems, the methods used for this was fascistic in nature. All dissents were silenced within and outside the organisation. Forceful recruitments, extortions, money laundering, drug trafficking - what not, every possible means were used to keep up the cause and fight for tamil Eelam going by 'Ends justify means'.

This is where I say Both are Fascists and in a comparative mode LTTE seems better than GoSL, as the formers goal was freedom for their people and the later's goal was ethnic cleansing of their people.

hey thanks RS.......but can i extend this to compare for example - Modi's fascism (gujarat carnage) and congress's fascism (anti-sikh riots) and conclude the less harmful there? i just wanted to know if we can extend this idea to a larger picture, bcos i found this phrase interesting...... :)

[rajasaranam]

hey thanks RS.......but can i extend this to compare for example - Modi's fascism (gujarat carnage) and congress's fascism (anti-sikh riots) and conclude the less harmful there? i just wanted to know if we can extend this idea to a larger picture, bcos i found this phrase interesting...... :)

Why do you want to compare two unrelated issues and arrive at a conclusions? :) It will be silly If Iam going to say 'British Fascism was better in comparison to German Fascism So I would like to be under British rule' :P

[MADDY]

Why do you want to compare two unrelated issues and arrive at a conclusions? :) It will be silly If Iam going to say 'British Fascism was better in comparison to German Fascism So I would like to be under British rule' :P

oh ok, u r talking abt comparing "related" events - gawt it :)

[rocketboy]

Upto my knowledge there are three "kinds" of tamil speaking people:

1. Tamils from north and east, who settled around 3rd to 4th century AD

2. Muslim Tamils mostly from east and also from colombo and Ratna pura

3. Tamils from south india who were taken to Srilanka during the 18th century by British to work in the Tea Estates. (Minister Thondamaan is aone of them)

Not entirely correct. Srilankan Muslim are not Tamils. They are descendants of Arab traders who came to the island. Tamil became their primary spoken language over a period of time.

[P_R]

Do you mean to compare cluster bombing etc. which was meant to get rid of a large chunk of a *race* to what prabhakaran's been trying to achieve?
:huh:

Ghastly images be warned
This is one sample (http://www.spur.asn.au/kattankudi_muslim_mosque_massare_by_ltte_1.htm) example of an ethnically targetted attack.


And IIRC he himself explained his intentions in that famous sun TV interview. Haven't seen the interview. But if you are under some impression that the tigers hit only the SL Army targets and not civilians (i.e. if that was his argument) LTTE has plenty of attacks on civilian targets in their resume.
Most notably the central bank was bombed in 1996. In its own scale and range that would be SL's own 9/11. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_bombing)

Here is a wiki page of major attacks attributed to the LTTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_attacks_attributed_to_the_LTTE)

None of this justify the kind of attacks that the GoSL has been doing to win this war. But just to be borne on mind that just because the LTTE lost the war doesn't erase the fact that they were one of the deadliest terrorist organizations in the world. Of late there is an increased tendency to view them as an organization that only use arms to defend itself.That is a big fat lie.

What RS was saying is that the people only had the extremely limited choice between on oppressive fascist regieme and another. So it necessary to see it from that perspective before passing any judgement from our completely external (and comfortable) points of view.

[joe]

PR,
விடுதலைப்புலிகளின் இரண்டு தவறுகள் அரசியல் ரீதியாக அவர்களை படூகுழியில் தள்ளியது மறுக்க முடியாத உண்மை.

1. சந்தேகத்தின் பேரில் முஸ்லீம்களை யாழ்ப்பாணத்தை விட்டு வெளியேற சொன்னது .அதனால் ஏற்பட்ட விரிசல் மற்றும் காத்தான் குடி படுகொலை.

2.ராஜீவ் கொலையின் மூலம் அதுவரை அளப்பரிய ஆதரவு கொடுத்துக்கொண்டிருந்த தமிழக மக்களை மிகவும் சங்கடத்துக்குரிய கையறு நிலைக்கு தள்ளியது.

[Nerd]

PR,
I am unable to type long messages from work here. What I meant was Prabhakaran's intentions when he formed the LTTE was to fight for rights of the Tamils, not to kill Sinhalese. Over the past 30 years or so he has killed 1000s of civilians, no denying that. They started out attacking govt. officials only. And no denying the fact that the movement had evolved to a civil war.

OTOH, GoSL's intention was also to wipe out thamizhs from that area. I was stressing on the intentions behind the formation of LTTE. Sorry for sounding obscure in my previous posts and this is my reading on this issue, I may be completely wrong too.

[joe]

PR,
ஒரு கொரில்லா இயக்கத்தை நடத்தும் போது நம்பகத்தன்மையின்மை மிகப்பெரிய அச்சுறுத்தல் ..25 ஆண்டுகளாக அசைக்க முடியாமல் இருந்த புலிகள் இயக்கம் இப்போது குறுகிய காலத்தில் சட சடவென சரிந்ததற்கு காரணம் கருணா -வின் துரோகம் . இது நடவாமல் இருப்பதற்கு தயவுதாட்சணியமற்ற சந்தேகத்திற்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விசுவாசம் சிறிது குலைந்தாலும் அதற்காக சில நடவடிக்கைகளை எடுக்கவில்லையென்றால் புலிகள் இயக்கம் எப்போதோ அழிந்திருக்கும் . போராட்டத்தின் நோக்கத்தை ஒருமுகப்படுத்துவதை குலைபதற்கு அரசாங்கங்கள் தூண்டி விடும் பிளவு பட்ட அமைப்புகளுக்குள் மோதலும் ,அதில் மற்றவரை அடக்கி புலிகள் இயக்கம் தனிப்பெரும் இயக்கமாக உருப்பெற்றதும் இப்படித் தான் . இவற்றை யாரும் நியாயப்படுத்த முடியாது என்றாலும் ,அவர்களின் இருப்புக்கும் தொடர்ந்து இலக்கை நோக்கி இயங்க்குவதற்கும் இதைத் தவிர வேறு வழியில்லை என்பதே உண்மை.

[rocketboy]

Do you mean to compare cluster bombing etc. which was meant to get rid of a large chunk of a *race* to what prabhakaran's been trying to achieve?
:huh:

Ghastly images be warned
This is one sample (http://www.spur.asn.au/kattankudi_muslim_mosque_massare_by_ltte_1.htm) example of an ethnically targetted attack.


And IIRC he himself explained his intentions in that famous sun TV interview. Haven't seen the interview. But if you are under some impression that the tigers hit only the SL Army targets and not civilians (i.e. if that was his argument) LTTE has plenty of attacks on civilian targets in their resume.
Most notably the central bank was bombed in 1996. In its own scale and range that would be SL's own 9/11. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_bombing)

Here is a wiki page of major attacks attributed to the LTTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_attacks_attributed_to_the_LTTE)

None of this justify the kind of attacks that the GoSL has been doing to win this war. But just to be borne on mind that just because the LTTE lost the war doesn't erase the fact that they were one of the deadliest terrorist organizations in the world. Of late there is an increased tendency to view them as an organization that only use arms to defend itself.That is a big fat lie.

What RS was saying is that the people only had the extremely limited choice between on oppressive fascist regieme and another. So it necessary to see it from that perspective before passing any judgement from our completely external (and comfortable) points of view.

Exactly, our sympathy should be with the people who have perished in the war, people who have been made refugees in their own land and not with LTTE. Remember the Rajiv gandhi assassination. Did Rajiv Gandhi alone die in the blast? How about the innocent by-standers. What harm did they do to the LTTE or the Eelam Tamils? Oru unmaiyana Tamizhan Srilankan tamizharkalukakka vethanai paduvan, avanga nalla irukkanum nenaipaan. Avvalave. LTTE committed two major blunders. Rajiv gandhi assassination and antagonizing the Srilankan Muslims, thereby incurring their wrath.

[rajasaranam]

PR,
ஒரு கொரில்லா இயக்கத்தை நடத்தும் போது நம்பகத்தன்மையின்மை மிகப்பெரிய அச்சுறுத்தல் ..25 ஆண்டுகளாக அசைக்க முடியாமல் இருந்த புலிகள் இயக்கம் இப்போது குறுகிய காலத்தில் சட சடவென சரிந்ததற்கு காரணம் கருணா -வின் துரோகம் . இது நடவாமல் இருப்பதற்கு தயவுதாட்சணியமற்ற சந்தேகத்திற்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விசுவாசம் சிறிது குலைந்தாலும் அதற்காக சில நடவடிக்கைகளை எடுக்கவில்லையென்றால் புலிகள் இயக்கம் எப்போதோ அழிந்திருக்கும் . போராட்டத்தின் நோக்கத்தை ஒருமுகப்படுத்துவதை குலைபதற்கு அரசாங்கங்கள் தூண்டி விடும் பிளவு பட்ட அமைப்புகளுக்குள் மோதலும் ,அதில் மற்றவரை அடக்கி புலிகள் இயக்கம் தனிப்பெரும் இயக்கமாக உருப்பெற்றதும் இப்படித் தான் . இவற்றை யாரும் நியாயப்படுத்த முடியாது என்றாலும் ,அவர்களின் இருப்புக்கும் தொடர்ந்து இலக்கை நோக்கி இயங்க்குவதற்கும் இதைத் தவிர வேறு வழியில்லை என்பதே உண்மை.

Agreed. But this has led to LTTE's defeat too and have left Eelam people in a confused state now. There was no serious 'political' wing for LTTE apart from in papers which will take the their agenda to the world and have a close relationship with people. They believed blindly in their military power and armed struggle. They had even not allowed the raise of second rung leaders to take forward the 'cause' in case of any adversaries. Going towards the goal blindfolded has ofcourse won some wars in the history but today it has to be done in a different manner is what this defeats learning is.

[P_R]

What I meant was Prabhakaran's intentions when he formed the LTTE was to fight for rights of the Tamils, not to kill Sinhalese.

The initial intentions bit dust easily. Among the list of attcks you can see the attacks targeted at Muslims and Sinhalese civilians. Women and children. Mindless violent atrocities targeted at people of opposite ethnic groups. So in no time there seemed to be no functional difference in the manifestations of the intentions.



OTOH, GoSL's intention was also to wipe out thamizhs from that area.LTTE too is guilty of ethnic cleansing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_1995_Eastern_Sri_Lanka_massacres). The violence did not incidentally kill civilians. There were targeted attacks on ethnic groups too.


I was stressing on the intentions behind the formation of LTTE. Agreed. But this is of marginal relevance.

[P_R]

PR,
ஒரு கொரில்லா இயக்கத்தை நடத்தும் போது நம்பகத்தன்மையின்மை மிகப்பெரிய அச்சுறுத்தல் ..25 ஆண்டுகளாக அசைக்க முடியாமல் இருந்த புலிகள் இயக்கம் இப்போது குறுகிய காலத்தில் சட சடவென சரிந்ததற்கு காரணம் கருணா -வின் துரோகம் . இது நடவாமல் இருப்பதற்கு தயவுதாட்சணியமற்ற சந்தேகத்திற்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விசுவாசம் சிறிது குலைந்தாலும் அதற்காக சில நடவடிக்கைகளை எடுக்கவில்லையென்றால் புலிகள் இயக்கம் எப்போதோ அழிந்திருக்கும் . போராட்டத்தின் நோக்கத்தை ஒருமுகப்படுத்துவதை குலைபதற்கு அரசாங்கங்கள் தூண்டி விடும் பிளவு பட்ட அமைப்புகளுக்குள் மோதலும் ,அதில் மற்றவரை அடக்கி புலிகள் இயக்கம் தனிப்பெரும் இயக்கமாக உருப்பெற்றதும் இப்படித் தான் . இவற்றை யாரும் நியாயப்படுத்த முடியாது என்றாலும் ,அவர்களின் இருப்புக்கும் தொடர்ந்து இலக்கை நோக்கி இயங்க்குவதற்கும் இதைத் தவிர வேறு வழியில்லை என்பதே உண்மை.

Joe, unlike many others I am not so disappointed about the internal dictatorship in LTTE and the way the organization is run. As you say they follow the wierd logic of maintaining order within guerrilla organizations. I think the only people who are disappointed by the LTTE's infighting and execution and kanagaroo trials are people who otherwise respect the LTTE.Assasinations of political bigwigs too doesn't shock me. Yes it has huge implication. But IMO there is some political payback and reasoning for every such killing with its own bloody logic there.

To me the several attack on civilians is of greater importance in judging their claim as an organization fighting for civil liberties. It annoys me very much when the very same people who are parading pictures of corpses in GoSL's attack defend the LTTE who are also ruthless in the corpse-production game.

Thaamarai - in whose name this thread exists- seems to be quite well informed about the history of this conflict. Not just this even about other global conflicts (in the Shivaji TV one she talks about Hutu-Tutsis, Kosova, East Timor etc.). SL in particularly she mentions very well how Rajapakse went about planning and executing this genocide, how India assisted it and how the whole world has turned a blind eye to this disaster.

But then she ends with Tiger gOsham 5 pEr bali aanaargaL, 50 pEr puli aanaargaL !! WTH !

It cannot be that she is ignorant of the ruthless acts of LTTE. She seems to be a well informed person. Everyone who shares the stage with her talks about Rajiv, giving the impression that this was the only mistake of the LTTE and as if they have never resorted to violence except in self defence. She - and so many others - are wilfully not looking at the slimy side of the Tigers. Why ? Is it so damn difficult to not present a one-sided picture to the people ? This is just wilful deceit. That is what annoys me.

[Nerd]

It cannot be that she is ignorant of the ruthless acts of LTTE. She seems to be a well informed person. Everyone who shares the stage with her talks about Rajiv, giving the impression that this was the only mistake of the LTTE and as if they have never resorted to violence except in self defence. She - and so many others - are wilfully not looking at the slimy side of the Tigers. Why ? Is it so damn difficult to not present a one-sided picture to the people ? This is just wilful deceit. That is what annoys me.
Agree. But you should not expect thaamarai being a pro-LTTE to highlight their negatives. Thaamarai as an outside supporter of LTTE is overlooking the fact that LTTE has killed thousands of civilians simply because she is able to relate to and appreciate VP's motive. And may be she thinks the killing of civilians are unavoidable in working towards your final goal. That's how I see it.

[podalangai]

As far as I know, the Sinhalese-Tamil conflict originated from the power struggle between the elite of Sinhalese and Tamils as the Sinhalese tried to marginalise the presence of Tamils in the bureaucracy and in general in politics.
Partly, yes, but it's more complex than that. I recommend Nira Wickramasinghe's "Ethnic Politics in Colonial Sri Lanka 1927-1947" for understanding why Tamil and Sinhalese elites went from considering themselves a "co-majority" to antagonists competing for influence.


The early Sinhalese governments (post-independence) of course took drastic steps to achieve their end. One of which was stripping the estate Tamils (bonded labourers who were taken by the Britsh to Sri Lanka to work on tea plantations) off their citizenship.
This was also some connection with the elites' aversion to Marxism (very strong amongst plantation workers at the time) - which is why several Tamil parties voted for it.


Not entirely correct. Srilankan Muslim are not Tamils. They are descendants of Arab traders who came to the island. Tamil became their primary spoken language over a period of time.

Ethnically and culturally, there's not very much difference between Tamil muslims in TN and the Sri Lankan Moors - they have a common origin, and there was a lot of close contact and exchange between the two communities until the late colonial period.

The main reason why Tamil-speaking muslims in TN consider themselves Tamil, but their counterparts in Sri Lanka don't, goes down to the way identities were constructed in the early 20th century (notions of Tamilness were radically different before then, but that's a topic for another time). In India, Muslim political life in the Madras Presidency was dominated by Urdu-speaking (Deccani) muslims well into the 1920s, at the cost of Tamil-speaking muslims. In effect, therefore, the Tamil identity advanced by the Dravidian movement gave the elites amongst Tamil-speaking Muslims a framework within which they could assert a prestigious non-Urdu identity and contest their marginalisation by Urdu-speaking Muslims. The result was a strong Tamil identity which's survived in the Tamil Nadu diasora.

In Sri Lanka, in contrast, the dominant class against which the Muslim elites had to struggle to assert themselves was the Ceylon Tamils, who asserted that the Muslims, as Tamil speakers, were best represented by other Tamils (much as Deccani Muslims in Madras had argued that they were the most appropriate representatives of Tamil-speaking Muslims). The result was that Muslims in Sri Lanka had to emphasise their separateness both from other Tamil-speakers, and from the Muslims of South India in order to claim the right to full membership in the Ceylonese polity. Because were most aspects of political life in colonial Ceylon were based on ethnicity, the notion of a distinct Ceylonese-Arab identity grew stronger and more firmly entrenched.

I'm simplifying, of course, but you get the general idea.

[podalangai]

It cannot be that she is ignorant of the ruthless acts of LTTE. She seems to be a well informed person. Everyone who shares the stage with her talks about Rajiv, giving the impression that this was the only mistake of the LTTE and as if they have never resorted to violence except in self defence. She - and so many others - are wilfully not looking at the slimy side of the Tigers. Why ? Is it so damn difficult to not present a one-sided picture to the people ? This is just wilful deceit. That is what annoys me.

I can't speak for Thamarai's motives, but...

I put this question to an acquaintance when Neelan Thiruchelvam was killed by the Tigers. We had a long talk about it, but in essence his argument boiled down to saying that for the purpose of helping the Sri Lankan Tamils, public discourse should be directed towards forcing Indian action, not educating the general public about the nitty-gritties of the Sri Lankan conflict. Describing the bad things the LTTE's done, or even honestly evaluating their acts (which is what he and I were talking about), would be counter-productive, so, he said, those who cared about Sri Lankan Tamils shouldn't do it. I didn't agree then, and I don't now, but in any event it seems likely a similar reasoning's at play here, too.

[joe]

PR,
புலிகள் தவறே செய்யவில்லை என யாரும் கூற முடியாது .அதே நேரத்தில் 40 வருடங்களாக சிங்கள அரசாங்கங்கள் செய்து வருகின்ற இன அழித்தொழிப்போடு புலிகள் செய்த தவறுகளை இணை நிறுத்துவது ரொம்பவே அதிகம்.

புலிகள் இயக்கம் ஒரு கொரில்லா இயக்கமாக இருந்தாலும் , அதிகார பூர்வ ஒரு நாட்டின் ராணுவம் செய்த அப்பட்டமான தார்மீக நெறிமுறை மீறல்களை ஒப்பிடும் போது புலிகள் எவ்வளவோ நெறிமுறைகளுக்குட்பட்டு நடந்தார்கள் .

[m_23_bayarea]

Wow! Just saw her speech!!!! AMAZINGGGG.... :thumbsup: :clap: :clap:

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Joe & RS,

Oru kelvi.

Thamizh eezhathukaaga poraadum LTTE yen adhe kolgai-kaga paadupatta Amirthalingam pOndrorai kondradhu?

LTTE pala vishayangalil anusarithu poirundhaal [Rajiv Gandhi assassination, Karuna] inneram thamizh eezham kidaithirukkum enbadhu ennudaya nambikai.

I remember Mathaya was his left hand. Yedhukku avarai kolla vendum?

Idhellam paakum podhu avargaludaya nokkam thamizh eezhathai vida vera yedhovo endru thondrugiradhu.

I am asking this doubt based on my knowledge about Srilankan issue. If that is half baked I am sorry. Please explain me.

[joe]

ஸ்ரீதர்,
நியாயமான கேள்விகள் .நீங்கள் சொல்லியிருப்பது போல இவை தவிர்க்கப்பட்டிருக்கலாம் ..ஆனால் பல காலமாக அகிம்சை முறையில் தந்தை செல்வா அரசியல் ரீதியாக எடுத்து சென்ற போராட்டங்களை இலங்கை அரசு பொருட்டாக மதிக்காமல் ,அடக்குமுறையையே பதிலாக தந்தது .பின்னர் அவரே வீணாக சம உரிமை கோருவதை விட தமக்கு சொந்தமான நாட்டை பிரித்து தருவதே ஒரே தீர்வு என கூறினார் ..பின்னர் ஆயுதப்போராடமே ஒரே வழி எனும் நிலை தோன்றி ஏராளமான போராளி இயக்கங்கள் தோன்றின ..இலக்கு ஒன்றாக சொல்லிக்கொண்டாலும் அவை ஒன்றாக இணைந்து செயல்படவில்லை ..போராட்டம் ஒன்றுபட்டு ஒருமுகமாக ஆவதை தடுப்பதற்கு இலங்கையும் (ஓரளவு இந்தியாவும்) பல்வேறு ஆயுதக்குழுக்களை மறைமுகமாக ஆதரித்தும் ,சிலவற்றை அவர்களே உருவாக்கியும் ஒன்றோடென்று மோத விட்டார்கள் ..நாளடைவில் புலிகள் இயக்கம் தனித்தன்மையோடு வளர ஆரம்பித்த போது ,சில இயக்கங்கள் இலங்கை அரசோடு மறைமுக கூட்டு வைத்துக்கொண்டு உள்ளறுக்கும் வேலைகளில் ஈடுபட்டார்கள்.

புலிகள் இலங்கை அரசுக்கு எதிராக முழுமூச்சாக போரடவேண்டுமெனில் கீழறுக்கும் வேலைகளை ஒழித்து போராட்ட்டத்தை ஒருமுகப் படுத்தி ,தமிழ் மக்களின் ஈழப்போராட்டத்தின் ஒற்றை முகமாக தாங்கள் இருந்தால் தான் வெற்றி பெற முடியும் என முடிவுக்கு வந்தார்கள் .

இன்றைக்கு மற்ற இயக்கங்கள் ஈழ நாடு போராட்டத்தை கைவிட்டு ,அரசோடு சமரசம் செய்து கொண்டு நக்கிப் பிழைப்பதை கண்கூடாக பார்க்கிறோம் .

தமிழகத்திலே கூட எம்.ஜி.ஆர் புலிகளை மட்டுமே ஆதரித்தார் . நிதி வழங்கினார் .அதனால் புலிகள் கலைஞரை சற்று தள்ளியே வைத்திருந்தார்கள் ..ஒரு முறை திமுக நிதி திரட்டி எல்லா போராளிக் குழுக்களுக்கும் சமமாக பிரித்துக் கொடுத்தது ..எம்.ஜி.ஆரை பகைத்துக் கொள்ள விரும்பாத புலிகள் இயக்கம் மட்டும் அந்த நிதியை ஏற்கவில்லை .

பின்னர் கலைஞர் 'ஈழ விடுதலை கூட்டமைப்பு' என்ற பெயரில் எல்லா போராளி இயக்கங்களுக்கிடையே ஒரு இணக்கத்தை கொண்டு வர முயன்றார் .அதுவும் தோல்வியில் முடிந்தது. இன்று கலைஞர் பேசுகிற 'சகோதர யுத்தம்' இது தான்.

புலிகளின் இந்த பிற இயக்க அழிப்பு மிகவும் துரதிருஷ்ட வசமானது .ஆனால் அவர்களைப் பொறுத்தவரை ,அது இல்லாமல் கீழறுப்பு வேலைகளையும் ,அரசாங்கத்தின் சதிகளையும் முறியடித்து வடக்கு தமிழர்களின் பிரதிநிதியாக வருவதற்கு வேறு வழியில்லை .இது அவர்கள் வாதம் .என் கருத்தல்ல.

[joe]

Sridhar,
மாத்தையாவைப் பொறுத்தவரை ,அவர் கூடவே இருந்து இலங்கையின் சதிவேலையில் சிக்கி பிரபாகரன் செல்ல இருந்த வாகனத்தில் குண்டு பொருத்தி அவரை கொல்ல முயற்சித்தார் .இதுவே புலிகள் தரப்பின் குற்றச்சாட்டு.

கருணா தான் பொறுப்பு வகித்த கிழக்கு பகுதிக்கு போதிய முக்கியத்துவம் தரவில்லை ,வடக்கே ஆதிக்கம் செலுத்துகிறது என அதிருப்தியில் வெளியேறியதாக சொல்கிறார். புலிகள் தரப்போ அவர் இயக்க விதிகளை மீறினார் .அரசின் சதி வலையில் விழுந்து விட்டார் என குற்றம் சாட்டியது.

[P_R]

அதே நேரத்தில் 40 வருடங்களாக சிங்கள அரசாங்கங்கள் செய்து வருகின்ற இன அழித்தொழிப்போடு புலிகள் செய்த தவறுகளை இணை நிறுத்துவது ரொம்பவே அதிகம். நான் இணை நிறுத்த முயலவில்லை. 'ரத்தத்தில் அதிகம் திளைத்தவர்கள் யார்' என்ற சட்டகமே எனக்கு ஏற்புடையது அல்ல. புலிகளின் தவறுகளைப் பற்றிப் பேச இது நேரமில்லை என்கிற வாதத்தில் வலு உண்டு தான்.

மனித உரிமை மீறல் பற்றி மேடையில் பேசுபவர்கள் புலிகளுக்கு ஆதரவு தெரிவிப்பதில் உள்ள முரணை மட்டுமே சுட்டிக் காட்ட முனைந்தேன். அதைத் தவிர்த்திருந்தால் மக்களிடையே இன்னும் ஆதரவு கிடைத்திருக்குமோ என்னவோ. இப்போது ஒரு சாமான்யர், 'இவர்கள் எல்லாம் புலிகளின் ஆட்கள், இப்படித் தான் பேசுவார்கள்' என்று புறந்தள்ளிவிட்டு அங்கு இலங்கை அரசு நடத்திய கொலைகளை கண்டுகொள்ள மறுக்கும் நிலையை இன்னும் எளிதாக்குகிறது இல்லையா.

[P_R]

in essence his argument boiled down to saying that for the purpose of helping the Sri Lankan Tamils, public discourse should be directed towards forcing Indian action, not educating the general public about the nitty-gritties of the Sri Lankan conflict. Describing the bad things the LTTE's done, or even honestly evaluating their acts (which is what he and I were talking about), would be counter-productive, so, he said, those who cared about Sri Lankan Tamils shouldn't do it.
I will join you in your disagreement with your friend. I actually think the above stance is counter-productive. It undermines the credibility of those raising their voices against a humanitarian crisis.

Anyway I feel knowing more and strengthening and broadening opinions has proved to be quite pointless here. It has accomplished nothing for us while the brute force has won right under our nose yet again.

We had an election brewing in the middle of this. That is when the people have the little power they have. Yet nothing happened. Either the democracy is not designed well enough to translate public pulse into action or there isn't sufficient public awareness about this. I don't want to believe the former as it leads me to a circular logic of supporting undemocratic means.

When something of this sort happens again I am sure we will all be powerless and helpless once again.

[P_R]

Thamizh eezhathukaaga poraadum LTTE yen adhe kolgai-kaga paadupatta Amirthalingam pOndrorai kondradhu?

AFAIK..Joe/RS correct me if I am wrong.

Amirthalingam asked the IPKF to stay on until arrangements were made to protect the Tamils.This was even after it was public knowledge that IPKF unleashed havoc on Tamils in SL. LTTE saw this as betrayal and killed him.


I remember Mathaya was his left hand. Yedhukku avarai kolla vendum? This happens in guerilla organizations as Joe outlined earlier. These things cannot be judged by our civilian logic. My question here is, why should we be so concerned about infighting in LTTE ? We should be more concerned about their civilian murders.

[Sanguine Sridhar]

Thanks Joe and Prabhu.

[Shakthiprabha]

நிரம்ப யோசித்தப் பின் என் கருத்தை முன் வைக்கிறேன். நான் புலிகளைப் பற்றியோ பிரபாகரனைப் பற்றியோ ஆதரித்து பேசியவள் அல்ல. அதே நேரம் அவர்கள் LTTE என்ற அமைப்பை( back in 80z ) ஆரம்பித்த பொழுது அது ஒரு விடுதலை இயக்கமாக இருக்கும் கோணத்தில் மட்டுமே பார்த்திருந்தேன். I did not have any judgements, against or for them, except I did feel such organisations were needed to voice atrocities done on minorities.

பிரபாகரனின் மரணம் ஏனோ என்னையும் வருத்தமுறச் செய்தது. தனிமனிதனுக்காக வாழாது, சமூகத்தின் ஒருசாராருக்காக தன் வாழ்வையும் சிந்தனையும் ஒருமுகப்படுத்தியவன் என்ற முறையில் may 13ஆம் தேதி என்னை வருத்தம் தாக்கியது.

ஸ்ரீதர் கூறியது போல் இந்த இயக்கம், வேறு வகையில் போரிட்டிருந்தால் சாதிக்க முடிந்திருக்குமோ என்ற அச்சம் எனக்குள்ளும் உண்டு. ஒரளவு ம்ட்டுமே சரித்திரம் தெரிந்து வைத்துக்கொண்டு இதைப்பற்றி கதைப்பது எந்த அளவு நியாயம் என்று எனக்குள் ஒரு கேள்வி, அதனாலேயே நான் பார்வையாளராய் இருந்திருக்கிறேன். அனுபவித்தவனுக்கே வலி தெரியும். Easy to voice opinion as spectator.So I guess I even lose the right to comment on them, as a spectator, and its shame on me to voice an opinion when I actually do NOTHING to wipe away tears either side.

எனினும்..... I feel they (LTTE) having started with a valid reason, have actually got diverted in their approach and goal and hence earned themselves a seal of "terrorists". நேர்ந்த பல அழிவுகளை விடுத்து செயல் பட்டிருந்தால், கோரிக்கைகளை போராட்டமாக மட்டுமே வலியுறுத்திருந்தால், இதுகாறும் நிறைய பலன்களை பெற்றிருக்கலாம் என நினைக்கத்தோன்றுகிறது. இந்த இயக்கத்தால் விளைந்த உயிர் நட்டத்தில், அவதிகள் பலருக்கு நேர்ந்தது. அவை இலங்கை வாழ் மக்களானாலும் என்னால் அவர்களை பிரித்து பார்க்க முடியவில்லை. அவர்களின் மரணமும் வலியும் கூட எனக்கு மிகுந்த வருத்தமளிக்கிறது. Any atrocities done by anybody or orgnisation towards anybody is condemnable.

நாடெங்கிலும் வன்முறை விடுத்து, அமைதி நிலவினால் அதுவே வெற்றியும் நிம்மதியும் தரும். அதற்காக என்னாலான ஒரே முயற்சி அமைதிக்காக பிரார்த்தனை மட்டுமே.

[app_engine]

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200905261965.htm

from this article


"If he has funded the assassination, then why did you not proceed against him?" a vacation bench of Justices V S Sirpurkar and R M Lodha asked ED's counsel Wasim Ahmed Qadri.

The bench made the passing reference after the ED opposed Chandraswami's plea to travel abroad on the ground that he had several criminal cases registered against him and is suspected of funding the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi.


Wasn't this godman close to all bigwigs of Cong(I) ? If he got involved in the killing, what was the reason / motive? Was there another big name in politics behind the killing, comfortably dumping the charges on the "agents / instruments" used?

Now this case may be closed without much noise (like the pleasant hotel case- riots upon which took the lives of those three girls and robbed the peace of their families, not just by death, by repeated telecasts of their cries).

So much of time / money by a huge machinery got spent on the investigations...for what? Just to drag on something for many years - without punishing or even identifying the real culprits and then when politically convenient, close the case?

I think it would be extremely difficult for any politician to get punished from the system in India, going forward.

[game]

I hate coming to mayyam for many reasons but out of curiosity I have come.. Selva and I quit the mayyam for same reasons and I don't want to be posting here but can't resist setting few things right.. I think the hub is best left with people who have never been to the failed state or experienced state terrorism to share their "opinions" based on a few rhetorics by GoSL. Our pain is better known to us than to anyone else because we felt it.


But then she ends with Tiger gOsham 5 pEr bali aanaargaL, 50 pEr puli aanaargaL !! WTH !

It cannot be that she is ignorant of the ruthless acts of LTTE. She seems to be a well informed person. Everyone who shares the stage with her talks about Rajiv, giving the impression that this was the only mistake of the LTTE and as if they have never resorted to violence except in self defence. She - and so many others - are wilfully not looking at the slimy side of the Tigers. Why ? Is it so damn difficult to not present a one-sided picture to the people ? This is just wilful deceit. That is what annoys me.


Can you do anything meaningful to us than writing what annoys you.

I think your argument is "why LTTE retaliated?" Probably LTTE would have earned your support if they gathered the relatives of those who were raped or killed by GoSL and sang chorus of anti-Srilankanism. It had happened before even before the arrival of LTTE and didn't have any positive impact and the ahimsai demostration were met with brutal killings of that very people. I cannot sit there and look in awe when my sisters and relatives are either killed or raped. If I retaliated, you'd say "you are a terorist" Put yourself in Eezham Tamils shoe.. I think it is funny that people never been to Eezham and experienced the worst criticizing the organization that represented the Tamils.

Ghandi used fast-unto-death as a tool to achieve great things.. He fasted many times but he did not die fasting. Thileepan fasted once and died because of that. You knwo Ghandi and I know Thileepan. Nobody talks about Thileepan except us.. engalOda pirachanai ungalukku puriyaathu. itha vittutu cinema analysis ezhuthina bettera irukkum.

Maybe you are ignorant of the fact that there was not a major riots against Tamils since the blackjuly in Colombo or other sinhalese dominant places. Ever asked yourself why it never happened? When Army go on a killing spree on north or east, LTTE will go on a killing spree in Sinhalese villages.. Sinahlese would definitely get upset over the government doesn't stop killing Tamils because it turn, LTTE will kill Sinhalese. If LTTE killed 25000 Sinhalese when army was shelling into LTTE area, Sinahlese would have asked the government to stop shelling into LTTE area because they are firing back.. I wish they had done that. You gave a wikipedia link of LTTE massacres but there's always a massacre of Tamils that preceded the massacres of Sinhalese. Most of the massacre they accuse LTTE of is their own fabrication.. Such a shame wikipedia is not so reliable.


மனித உரிமை மீறல் பற்றி மேடையில் பேசுபவர்கள் புலிகளுக்கு ஆதரவு தெரிவிப்பதில் உள்ள முரணை மட்டுமே சுட்டிக் காட்ட முனைந்தேன். அதைத் தவிர்த்திருந்தால் மக்களிடையே இன்னும் ஆதரவு கிடைத்திருக்குமோ என்னவோ. இப்போது ஒரு சாமான்யர், 'இவர்கள் எல்லாம் புலிகளின் ஆட்கள், இப்படித் தான் பேசுவார்கள்' என்று புறந்தள்ளிவிட்டு அங்கு இலங்கை அரசு நடத்திய கொலைகளை கண்டுகொள்ள மறுக்கும் நிலையை இன்னும் எளிதாக்குகிறது இல்லையா.

whose support? your support? We don't need your support because you are an elite and you don't want to get ugly. We grew up in LTTE territories and we never heard of cinema, sex outside marriage, club, theft, caste, religion, oppression of females, rapes or condom. Most Tamils like a society that treated everyone equally. You won't understand us.. They have the support of Eezham Tamils. At least 97% support them. Ther 3% is EPDP, PLOT etc and their families. You should spend your time spreading Ghandism, not Mandelaism or Netajism.



Exactly, our sympathy should be with the people who have perished in the war, people who have been made refugees in their own land and not with LTTE. Remember the Rajiv gandhi assassination. Did Rajiv Gandhi alone die in the blast? How about the innocent by-standers. What harm did they do to the LTTE or the Eelam Tamils? Oru unmaiyana Tamizhan Srilankan tamizharkalukakka vethanai paduvan, avanga nalla irukkanum nenaipaan. Avvalave. LTTE committed two major blunders. Rajiv gandhi assassination and antagonizing the Srilankan Muslims, thereby incurring their wrath.

We feel for the bystanders :cry:

but what harm did we do to the Indians to deserve the treatment they gave us? over 4000 were killed by the Innocent People Killing Force. Girls were raped. Guys were burned to death. If I weren't a kid at that time, I won't be replying to you now. It's always India.. my country, my people.. are we(Eezham Tamils) animals?

In my neighborhood there were about ten kids under the age of 10.. Once we were playing in the small field that separate my house from another house, Indian army came and grabbed a girl(she was 10).. and draggd her out of that place. My mom screamed.. tried her best to draw the attention of the neighborhood in order to protect her from being taken away. They said she's having an affair with an LTTE and that's why they are taking her away. As a kid, I didn't know what to do, I tried to drag her back and was hit by a swing of the gun in my chest.. I fell unconscious. When I recovered I asked my paretns and her parents about her and they didn't say a word about it. Four days later, a body was found in a well and it was none other her. It was a harsh reality for a Tamil kid. I came to term with the fact she was no more. I wasn't told about what happened to her untill I was 16 but I knew then she was killed by IPKF. I have frequent chest pain and I always go for a checkup and different doctors always repeat that you have no problem.. and asked me if my parents have this problem. A month after her death, the army came again and told my parents that we have bombs in our roof and they wanted to check it. They removed the roof and checked for something that never was there and returned without putting it back. We had to hire people to do it. My nursary(LKG) teacher was a 29 year old lady. She was so nice that I liked being at nursary all the time. She was abducted by the IPKF when she was returning from the nursary, raped and killed. I can't go in detail because what happened to her was so disgusting. These are two cases that directly affected me. I have many many stories I have heard from relatives of the atrocities of IPKF.. It made no difference whether it is IPKF or SL army.. we are the victims. If you want to hear about Sinhalese chavunism, you can ask any Tamil whether he is from Jaffna, Vanni or Batticola.

What PR would say to the girl's parents? What can you offer to the parents other than a few empty words? Don't assume that the conflict is only 26 years old.. it's 60 years old and arm struggle was the last resort.

For India and China it was a playing field and they are responsible for the massacre of Tamils as much as SL is responsible for it... Rajiv Ghandi killed 4000 Tamils in late 80s.. Sonia killed 25000 in 4 months. What will Rahul Ghandi do to us? Wipe out the Tamils without a trace? Was Rajiv Ghandi not a terrorist? What was his goal? was the massacres of Tamils unintentional? Why did you all vote for a terrorist and his family?

by the way the real terrorist
http://tr.truveo.com/breaking-news-war-criminal-mahinda-rajapakse-as/id/3593111801

"now the language has changed"
He formed his own terrorist organization because he thought "Indians are going to take over the South,".. and he can't give an inch away to others..

There was a strong resentment in Sri Lanka from all ethnicity toward Rajiv Ghandi and almost everyone wanted him dead, but Tamils wanted it more. terrorist mahinda would have declared a public holiday when rajiv was killed.. now the language has changed. We would have achieved our goal if not for Indias involvement in our struggle. No offense to anyone.. Nothing against India but we hate Indian politicians.

Nelson Mandel was a terrorist yesterday and now he is a noble prize winner... When you fight for a separate country, you are a terrorist and you'd be accused of almost everything in the world. This is the norm. Why people don't consider Yasir Arafat, Bush, Aerila Sheron as terrorists? :(

[P_R]

Can you do anything meaningful to us than writing what annoys you.
I can do absolutely nothing.I can make more people more aware particularly those with access to lesser information than I have. I could possibly vote in a more informed. That's pretty much all I can do.


Don't assume that the conflict is only 26 years old.. it's 60 years old and arm struggle was the last resort. You seem to assume anyone critical of the LTTE's methods knows nothing about the struggle.


I think your argument is "why LTTE retaliated?" No. You are wrong right there. That the LTTE is an organization that started as a final resort in a long struggle for rights is something I am quite aware of. Let me repeat what I have already said in earlier posts.

People who admit to certain faults of the LTTE usually admit to the quaintest of faults. Like maintaining internal order with an iron hand, silencing competing representative voices and assassination of political leaders. All of these IMO are understandable for a rebel organiztion such fighting for a cause. Particularly the assassination of leaders the media tends to harp about all the time. Much like a retalliation to the army is a case of defending arms with arms, the leaders too are in some ways 'culpable' in that they make the policies that permit the violent confrontation of the LTTE.

Slowly people are being made to believe that the LTTE NEVER attacked civilian targets. Slowly that lie is being disseminated. Last year, on Prabhakaran's birthday (I think), Seeman made a speech somewhere in Canada (it's available in youtube). There he talks at length about the
struggle. And then he refers to the surprise aerial attack that LTTE carried out in April 2007 on a Sl Army defence base. And then he said something like "if we wanted we could have attacked the city and civilians. But we did not. எங்கள் இலக்கு அது அல்ல்" etc.

And that's the kind of statement people fall for hook line and sinker. In fact it even confused me. It presents LTTE which does not resort to violence on civilians and one that takes up arms exclusively against the SL army. Lots of young people tend to believe this image.

The truth is LTTE has with conscious intent never hesitated to carry out ethnically targeting murders. Just like the pictures we see today there are tonnes of pictures of women and children blown to bits and pieces, gory flesh and blood photographs of massacres the LTTE has carried out. There is now a calculated attempt to push these things below the carpet. That is what I am trying to point out. Particularly in a protest meeting where the speaker talks well about the Human Rights violations of the Government, I find duplicitous for her to end the speech with a note of support for an organization which is a notable human rights violator itself. That is why I constantly try to point out.

In this I know I fail badly. There is a great demand to see the world in black and white. Prabhakaran has already been deified. Quaint articles are being written in the mainstream press recalling his idiosyncracies, simplicity, determination etc. India is a country where Mao and Stalin have already been elevated to demi-god status. They have shut a blind eye to their massacres, murder of innocents in the name of ideology and power. One more is in the process of being added to the pantheon.


Most of the massacre they accuse LTTE of is their own fabrication I have heard this too. But beyond a certain stage in things like this, it is a toss-up between various conspiracy theories. All one can so is rely on what is likely to be the case BUT at the same time having the open mind to correct one's opinions when they are proved wrong.


I think it is funny that people never been to Eezham and experienced the worst criticizing the organization that represented the Tamils. True we can never experience the pain and suffering like your experiences which you described. It can be alleged that "Rape and murder" are just words to people outside the field. However that doesn't invalidate completely all opinions people may have formed after an assimilation of information and consideration. We debate and argue to get rid of flaws in logic, misunderstanding because there is a certain deal of universal concern in all of us. That is the concern that excites emotions in us regarding events that do not affect our day to day life. I don't think the concern is to be a subject of ridicule. Anyway all this may just seem 'empty words' to you. There is nothing that can be done about that.


When Army go on a killing spree on north or east, LTTE will go on a killing spree in Sinhalese villages.. Sinahlese would definitely get upset over the government doesn't stop killing Tamils because it turn, LTTE will kill Sinhalese. If LTTE killed 25000 Sinhalese when army was shelling into LTTE area, Sinahlese would have asked the government to stop shelling into LTTE area because they are firing back.. I wish they had done that. If so then I see no point discussing further.

[podalangai]

Much like a retalliation to the army is a case of defending arms with arms, the leaders too are in some ways 'culpable' in that they make the policies that permit the violent confrontation of the LTTE.

PR, what do you mean by this?


Slowly people are being made to believe that the LTTE NEVER attacked civilian targets. Slowly that lie is being disseminated.

This has been going on for a long time, and it doesn't just apply to the LTTE. Just about every aspect of the history of the ethnic conflict (and Sri Lanka) has been rewritten by all three sides, to the extent that it almost feels like you're reading about three totally different conflicts when you read what each side says.

It's had its consequence, of course. Tamils, particularly in the diaspora, have simply no clue how the LTTE is seen by the west (or, for that matter, in Tamil Nadu - notice how so few people over 40 have been taking part in the demonstrations in TN?), nor are we as a community able to understand why an acceptance of the essential justice of the Tamil cause hasn't translated into concrete measures of support for Tamils (or even a reduction in the support given to the GoSL). That's meant, amongst other things, that we were absolutely unable to do anything to stop the carnage in the Vanni or even ease the suffering of the people of in the camps, notwithstanding the West's outrage at Sri Lanka's war tactics.


I can do absolutely nothing.I can make more people more aware particularly those with access to lesser information than I have.

I'm not sure there's much point in trying to do this on this forum (as opposed to, for example, in the print Tamil media). The black-white dichotomy is entirely too pervasive in India, and it's turned our Sri Lanka policy into an utter disaster. We have a moral obligation to fix the mess we've made of the lives of the Tamils of Sri Lanka, but until we take off our blinkers anything we do will only make things worse.

[P_R]

Much like a retalliation to the army is a case of defending arms with arms, the leaders too are in some ways 'culpable' in that they make the policies that permit the violent confrontation of the LTTE.

PR, what do you mean by this?


What I meant is this: things have to be seen from the point that given that the struggle has moved to such a stage that an organization has decided to take up arms. In that scenario using arms against the army can be understood as the army poses a direct physical threat on the LTTE and what it stands for. Taking arms against the army would be able 'self-defense' from that point of view. Political leaders who direct policy which make the army a threat to the LTTE are also 'culpable' (from the LTTE PoV) . So much so that even their assassinations can be understood. In the sense that they do not stand counter to their claims as freedom fighters taking up arms in self-defence.

On the other hand it is the massacres on civilians that (IMO of course) invalidates the moral standing of the organization in substantial measure.

Yes the Rajeev assassination occupies a huge space in the Indian consciousness. Most of us in our twenties are likely to have had that as the starting memory from which whatever understanding we developed began. So, to an extent I understand the appeal to look beyond it. Looking beyond should also mean having more appropriate parameters to judge.I keep harping on this because in the last 2-3 years the media has slowly been saying things like the LTTE should not be judged in the light of Rajeev assassination alone. It is almost as if, if that not happened, or by some turn of events LTTE could be absolved of this now, they would be an organization worthy of the whole-hearted support of the people.

[MazhaiKuruvi]

With all due respects to all who lost their lives including VP and team, SLA, the victims of assassinations and especially those innocents who lost their own lives and the lives of those who they held dear over the past 30 years. Here are some pictures that speak volumes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2zba2dy6fU

Ultimately, for those innocents who lost their lives, it does not matter who is in charge or what the cause is/was.

Don't miss http://www.dbsjeyaraj.com/

Agreed there were problems. Let's assume LTTE's original goals were justified and lasted 5-10 years, does this mean that LTTE was justified in enslaving the SL Tamils and their dreams for 25 years forcefully recruiting their children and giving them cynaide pills.

Imagine a scenario like this in pre-independent India. Imagine if we had leaders like the LTTE living in luxury and giving our forefathers cyanide pills to fight the Brits....

[MazhaiKuruvi]

Check this VERY informative blog on the sequence of events starting from the beginning. There are 12 posts in all.

http://roachbane.blogspot.com/2009/05/outsiders-comments-on-sri-lankan.html

[app_engine]

Whatever may be the sympathies of people w.r.t. LTTE (pro / against / don't care), for all practical purposes, it's not a force today. That is as of June 8th 2009, it's not something to reckon with.

Which also means, the SL gov or Indian gov DO NOT HAVE ANY REASON WHATSOEVER to torture those hundreds of thousands behind barbed wires under military control!

They are humans - flesh and blood - like everyone of us and have the right to live as peacefully as anyone here.

Why that is being denied today? What are their sins? What are their wrongs? Why this world is not doing anything about it? Gandhiji's country is even OPPOSING UN's (half-hearted) effort in that direction. The less I talk about what TN's political heads are doing the better :-(

Is there ANY KIND OF JUSTIFICATION to this?

[podalangai]

Gandhiji's country is even OPPOSING UN's (half-hearted) effort in that direction. The less I talk about what TN's political heads are doing the better :-(

Because we've lost the ability to think clearly. As I said in my response to Prabhu Ram, there's a bizarre almost Bush-like attitude in India that unless you were a 100% supporter of the LTTE, its methods and everything it stood for, you have to unquestioningly and uncritically give the GoSL 100% support. If you don't, you support what the LTTE stood for. And this logic holds even though the LTTE is gone.

The chattering classes in India (and TN) do not want to support the LTTE - for many, this is because of Rajiv Gandhi's killing, but it's also because of the things Prabhu Ram has been talking about. So, they support everything the GoSL does, including the camps.

And in the meantime, our people suffer as even the Chief Justice of Sri Lanka acknowledges.


Is there ANY KIND OF JUSTIFICATION to this?
Did you see the link I posted a couple of days ago? The Sri Lankan government says that their security demands that they screen even 80-year olds to see if they "mentally support" the LTTE. That's their justification, and there's nobody in Gandhi's country who deems it necessary to question it.

[app_engine]

Thanks podalangai for sharing the grief!

[app_engine]

Sushma Swaraj (bjp) in parliament on SL issue, quotes 'நன்னெறி':

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=493003&disdate=6/9/2009

Jayanthi Natarajan (cong) confirms death of 20K people, பின்ன ஏன் 'கனரக ஆயுதம் பயன்படுத்தலை'ன்னு சொன்னீங்க? :

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=493004&disdate=6/9/2009

Kanimozhi :
http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=493008&disdate=6/9/2009

[app_engine]

சிங் : "மயிலே, மயிலே, இறகு போடு "

http://tamil.webdunia.com/newsworld/news/national/0906/09/1090609073_1.htm

[app_engine]

http://www.dinamalar.com/fpnnews.asp?News_id=4043

கொடுமை :-(

[Karikalen]

http://www.dinamani.com/edition/story.aspx?&SectionName=World&artid=72269&SectionID=131&MainSectionID=131&SEO=&Title=

[app_engine]

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=493372&disdate=6/11/2009

While mukA's kiNdal of JJ is full of facts i.e. exposing the ammaiyAr of her hypocrisy in this issue, one gets irritated beyond a point as to why these two people are even talking about the SL issue :-(

While one was அந்தர் பல்டி for election, the other was spineless thru out the calamity, falling on the feet of Delhi instead of questioning them. While the sufferings continue in concentration camps in SL even after the armed war is over, the war of words does not seem to end in TN.

Ugliest of all politicians in the world perhaps:-(

While they may be doing many other things for their politics in TN, at least considering the extremely pathetic conditions of those 300,000 plus people, I wish these two refrain from making aRikkais on this issue anymore.

Considering every other linguistic group in the country (why, may be even in the whole world), one'll have to shamefully admit that - IMO - ours is possibly the MOST divided one :-(

[crazy]

Considering every other linguistic group in the country (why, may be even in the whole world), one'll have to shamefully admit that - IMO - ours is possibly the MOST divided one :-(

:cry: :cry:

[app_engine]

I'm so pained to write this, that we are the only linguistic group that cannot unite and come together even under severe calamity and even when someone is outrageously unleashing torture :-(

Every other language group have their own internal fights / squabbles etc but when some external force strikes, they unite strongly (even people so opposed and fragmented like LDF & UDF in Kerala).

No, not with ThamizharkaL with people like mukA & JJ around! When will these people understand ஒன்று பட்டால் உண்டு வாழ்வு? Well looks like they only follow the எரிகிற வீட்டில் பிடுங்கினது ஆதாயம் technology :-( What a shame!

[MazhaiKuruvi]

Linguistic group? I don't see Gujaratis from India joining hands with Gujjus who immigrated to Africa 100 years ago or hindi speakers of India joining hands with the hindi speakers of Guyana or the West Indies who moved the hundred years ago.

However, I do agree that we should stand up when human beings are tortured or abused anywhere be it in Guantanamo or in Iraq or in Sri Lanka.

[MazhaiKuruvi]

[tscii:2eacabacc7]
Be thoughtful not to disturb communal harmony
– President to Media


The media should not be used to disturb communal harmony. The defeat of the LTTE and terrorism has brought the country to the threshold of a new era of unity and understanding. The media should act with a sense of responsibility in this situation, and not encourage old attitudes that led to disharmony and mistrust to prevail, said President Mahinda Rajapaksa to the owners and chief editors of the print and electronic media, June 05, At Temple Trees.

In his first interactive session with key persons, of the Sinhala, Tamil and English media, since the defeat of the LTTE, President Rajapaksa said the first priority today was the building of trust and understanding among communities, with the view to national unity. The media has a major role to play in this. The forces of communal hatred, separatism and terror should not be allowed to raise their heads, through the misuse of the power of the media.

The President cautioned that at present “There is a danger that even a small incident could be blown up by provocative elements to cause much damage… My earnest appeal to you is not to write or broadcast anything that would create unnecessary divisions in society.”

“Do not write anything to arouse hatred, do not let another terrorist movement to emerge,” he added.

He also requested the media not to defame anyone or use the media to settle personal vendettas, which could lead to incidents that could implicate the Government for no fault of its own.

The President also requested the editors to visit the welfare villages in the North to see for themselves the conditions there and get an understanding of the colossal tasks that the government has already undertaken in the wake of the unprecedented and unexpected influx of civilians who fled from the clutches of the LTTE into the safety of the government. He urged the media to use their influence to make the country fully aware of the humanitarian issues that are being addressed in resettling these Internally Displaced Persons who are citizens of Sri Lanka.

The government has drawn up a 180 day plan for resettlement of the Internally Displaced Persons after completing de-mining and providing infrastructure and basic necessities, the President said.


http://www.priu.gov.lk/news_update/Current_Affairs/ca200906/20090606be_thoughtful_not_to_disturb_communal_harm ony.htm

[/tscii:2eacabacc7]

[app_engine]

மறுபடியும் கடிதம் எழுத ஆரம்பிச்சாச்சு :-(

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=494669&disdate=6/17/2009

ஏம்ப்பா இந்த மாதிரி பயங்கர சீரியஸ் விஷயத்துக்கு ஒரு டெல்லி விசிட் - அட் லீஸ்ட் ஃபோன் பண்ணக்கூடாதா?

[app_engine]

http://news.in.msn.com/international/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3042896

Some media attention to katchatheevu.

Why there seems to be never an interest from Delhi on TN fishermen?

[Sanjeevi]

Enga Kudumbatha kavaniyunga appuram TN fishermen etc ellam paathukkalam

appadinu ketkAmal kEtta, Podamal Potta, EzhuthAmal Ezhuthappatta oru udanpadikkaiyA irukkalAm

[app_engine]

http://www.dinamalar.com/fpnnews.asp?News_id=4146

These two main comedians of TN politics never stop fighting each other on aRikkais.

When will they ever learn to work together when issues are after all about confronting a "common enemy"?

[geno]

What is so very incredible about this?

An organisation that works so efficiently to pin point and assist SL govt, is sleeping at the Paki and Bangladeshi gates not once or twice, but counting from the second Mumbai blast to Delhi blast to the recent one and the ones to follow all under the current regime of Manmohana and Sonia. If it can work efficiently in a foreign country in a setting so alien, then working in Pakistan and Bangladesh must be a piece of cake with the 'blending in' so easy to achieve. They are not ordered to that effect by political masters - As simple as it is - there is no need to be suspicious about this because it is politics.
Pachchaya solla pona, hard steps towards tracking and crushing panna pona idiotic parties like Left , SP and other mindless udhiris will raise hue and cry painting tough measures against ISI sponsored terrorism as 'anti minority' policy. This is the electoral fear that is preventing Congress govt to pussy foot. However Manmohan sonia group will not worry a little bit when they have to ask RAW to 'help' SLA to give location of School or Hospital that has to be bombed. As the article in rediff said - blood is on the hands of India - it is innocent blood - not that of prabhakaran and LTTE - they had anyways made their appointment with death since the days of cyanide - but that of the people who were in NE. This will prove costly not today or tomorrow - but some other day - Fortunately or unfortunately the sinners of today will not be in the top post then.

However varisu arasiyal is giving me hopes that atleast someone from their family will be there when the comeuppance comes calling.

Something worthy of my visit to the hub after a long time.

[geno]

Like the holocaust verse quoted by the SL journalist (who got killed subsequently), if we're not questioning now - thinking we're safe anyways, such things will happen to us too, without fail.


Absolutely.

cankam literature talks about / names 100s of different types of Fishes/marine life; tamils have been "kadalOdikaL" for milleannia..

now we have the central govt. which forces the "meenavarkaL" to get "permits" to Fish along our coast!, and lets our fisherfolk to be hunted down by the SL Navy.

Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto" is being played out in real life on tamils.

Perhaps the "Akhanda Nationalists" and Pesudo-democratic "I-shall-protect-Religious-identity-and-mock-ethnic-identities" people should remember that "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."