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kirukan

28th April 2009, 06:24 PM

[tscii:e87a560d86]Hi All,

I don’t know where to post this and who to contact for help. I am posting it here to get suggestions and help from you people to start a movement to eradicate corruption from India.

I have an idea to do that, I need your suggestions and thoughts to bring it to reality.

Today everyone from lower to upper class people use internet in their day today life and the same people use to bribe.
I am sure there will be a major percentage of people who bribe, would be against it but they used to bribe as there is no other go for them. So we can target those people .If we have a blog where they can enter the details of the person who they bribed we will get a good database and we can publicize that blog and show the corrupted persons to the world. Nobody will like to see their name in such websites. So this may create a change in our society.
Version 1(Removing bribe for doing ones duty)
System will have the below flow
Registration (Anyone can register with/without revealing their identity)
Form (User has to enter the details of the person they bribed with date time, place and amount)
Website( online website which will have the corrupted persons list placewise,amountwise,datewise)

Please let me know your thoughts on this, even if this looks rubbish/useless/timewaste to you please tell me that. I want to know whether this can be made in reality and there will be any after effect after this implementation.

Thanks for your patience on reading this.
Hope India becomes corrupt free nation soon.
Jai Hind

Regards,
Kirukkan.
[/tscii:e87a560d86]

sankara1970

28th April 2009, 06:40 PM

It is a good beginning!

Unfortunately, these messages reach only net surfers.

Anti-Corruption should start from self.

The dream of many yesteryear leaders is only dream.

The plight of many indians are pathetic.

Before eliminating corruption, eliminate poverty and illiteracy

Politicians are exploiting unemployed youth and using religion, caste for getting votes

Comman man votes for meagre money in return

People are greedy for money.

Pure candidates and party should be elected.

Let's continue.

kirukan

28th April 2009, 07:37 PM

[tscii:d0eb8c8641]
It is a good beginning!

Unfortunately, these messages reach only net surfers.
.
.
.
Let's continue.

You are right sir, this will be viewable to net surfers only.

But my point is there will be lot of net surfers who are sons/daughters of the corrupted officials who won’t like to see their parents name in a website as a corrupted person. That will make a change in persons mind. I don’t thnk we can do anything to get a clean party or politician. If we can clear people mind from the lower level that will make automatic change in the upper level.
Now a days there can be houses with food but it’s difficult to see houses without cable TV, so publishing data to public is not a big deal through media.
But I have a doubt as ours is democratic country there are lot of rules which will favor criminals and offenders.

Doing this kind of this legal or illegal? Can we publish corrupt person’s name in website?
Can any lawyers answer this?

Regards,
Kirukan[/tscii:d0eb8c8641]

app_engine

28th April 2009, 09:47 PM

Any expose of bribe / corruption has this one major problem - slanderous effort to tarnish a really clean person's image :-(

That will be a major problem for this website, especially when you propose the person entering the info to be anonymous. It could be a nice place for slander (and also nice potential for defamation lawsuits)

OTOH, if you store / reveal the identity of the affected person, then there're those problems of (a) personal safety (b) jeopardizing the work of the person and so on.

Remember the videos of Tehelka? I think that route should be taken for such a website (even though it could call for greater resources). It should only accept details of the corruption with graphics (Obviously, there'll be fewer entries, but there won't be any legal problems / defamation issues etc because there'll be solid proof).

P_R

28th April 2009, 10:35 PM

The basic truth is corruption starts from us and our quest for comforts and luxuries. Slight bending then a abyss of defining the acceptable degree of bending. At each stage we assure ourselves that our current definition of "this far and no further" is fine.

The Poonamallee High Road entrance to Egmore station is spacious and an absolute comfort to park. Day before yesterday when I parked there a gentleman asked for Rs. 10 and gave me a parking token. This was quite a surprise as I have parked several times in the past and never knew parking was charged. In fact I thought only the two wheeler parking (which is relatively packed) is contracted.

Yesterday morning I had to go again. I got out and looked around for a parking attendant. There was no-one, so I thought I'd pay on the way back and left. When I came back again there was no-one and I drove away.

This evening I went again to drop someone off. Again there was no-one there. Saw off the person I was dropping and returned. As I was leaving a youngster appeared from nowhere and asked for a token and I told him I hadn't bought any as there was no-one around and just asked him how much. He said tenner. It so happened the smallest note I had was a fifty. I fished out a five and was counting other coins. He said : "veLiyila dhaanE sir pOreenga... appo kudunga" and accepted the five and waved me off. He did not give me a token.

As I drove off I realized that I did indeed pay a bribe. Small, maybe. Did not cheat the government but a private party (the parking contractor). When there is no-one there at all and thus I paid Rs.0 I didn't feel bad as there was no staff there to whom I could have paid. But today I pretty much did the same (as far the contractor goes) but a poor young kid is better of by Rs. 5. Now there is no reason I should feel 'bad' about it (atleast compared to status quo-ante). But I do feel I have, because I could have surely insisted on a token and demanded to be given change for my fifty.

Just wanted to post my experience because it is on the top of my head now and raises some questions about the nature of corruption. What is it ?
- whether it affects the taxpayer
- whether it affects the quality of service available to a fellow consumer
- lubrication to get things done which ought to have been done without the money or knowing someone who can make the necessary phone calls.

joe

29th April 2009, 06:54 AM

லஞ்சம் என்பது சமூகத்தால் இயல்பானதாக ,அங்கீகரிக்கப்பட்ட ஒன்றாக நிறுவப்பட்டு பல நாட்கள் ஆகி விட்டது .. பொதுவாக நல்லவர்களாக ,யாருக்கும் தீங்கு செய்யாதவர்களாக , சமுதாயத்தில் மதிப்பு மிக்கவர்களாக ,தங்களை கவுரம் மிக்க குடும்பத்தை சேர்ந்தவர்களாக கருதுபவர்கள் கூட தனக்கு ஒரு காரியம் ஆக வேண்டும் எனும் போது "சார் ,நாம செய்ய வேண்டியதை செஞ்சுடலாம் .பிரச்சனை இல்லை" என்று சொல்லுவதை பார்க்கலாம் .அதன் உள்ளர்த்தம் என்னவென்று விளக்க தேவையில்லை ..உதாரணத்துக்கு ஒரு தெய்வ பக்தி நிரம்பிய சாத்வீகமான ,தங்களை கவுரவமான குடும்பத்தினராக கருதிக் கொள்ளும் ஒருவர் கூட தனக்கோ தன் குடும்பத்தினருக்கோ (ஆசிரியர் என்று வைத்துக் கொள்ளுவோம்) பணியிட மாற்றம் தேவையென்றால் "செய்ய வேண்டியதை செய்துவிடலாம் " என்பதில் எவ்வித கூச்சத்தையோ .அவமானத்தையோ உணர்வதில்லை ..இன்னும் சொல்லப்போனால் அதை பெருமையாக சொல்லிக்கொள்ளும் நிலையே உள்ளது ..அப்படி செய்வதற்கு ஆள்பிடியும் தொடர்புகளும் வைத்திருபவர்களை சமுதாயம் புத்திசாலியாகவும் ,சாமார்த்தியம் மிகுந்தவராகவும் தான் சமுதாயம் பேசுமே தவிர இழிவாக யாரும் நினைப்பதில்லை ..ஆனால் இதே ஆட்கள் தான் எந்தவித ஆள்பிடிப்பும் ,செல்வாக்கும் இல்லாத அன்றாடம் காய்ச்சிகள் செய்யும் சிறிய தவறுகளை பெரிது படுத்தி அவர்களை இழிவாக பேசுவார்கள் .

இங்கே 10 ரூபாய்க்கு தப்பு பண்ணினால் அடித்து உதைத்து இழுத்துச் செல்வார்கள் ..ஆனால் 10 கோடிக்கு தப்பு பண்ணினால் ஊடக விளம்பரத்தோடு ராஜ மரியாதை தான் .

கோடி கோடியாக சுருட்டுபவனுக்கு வக்காலத்து வாங்க ஒரு கூட்டமே உண்டு .அவன் கைது செய்யப்படும் போது சிரித்துக்கொண்டே ஊடகத்துக்கு போஸ் கொடுக்கலாம் ..ஆனால் அறிவீனத்தின் காரணமாக எளியவன் ஒருவன் தெருவில் துப்பிவிட்டாலோ 'கருடபுராணம்' ஆராயப்பட்டு எண்ணேய் சட்டியில் வறுத்தெடுக்கலாம் .

வாழ வழியில்லாக ஏழைகள் ஒரு வேளை சோற்றுக்கு கூனிக் குறுகி அவமானப்பட்டு மனம் இறுகி வெறுத்துப் போகலாம் ..இணைய இணைப்பு உள்ள நம்மைப்போன்ற வசதியானவர்கள் ஷங்கர் கொடுக்கும் தீர்வினால் நாடு சுபிட்சமாகி விடும் என்று குருட்டுக்கதை அளக்கலாம் ..

வாழ்க ஜனநாயகம் ! :x

sarna_blr

29th April 2009, 07:08 AM

PR :lol: sirikkakkoodaadhudhaan but couldnt resist :oops:

bribe/corruption'radhu namma raththaththulayE ooriduchchu, inimE adha pirikkuradhundradhu vazhukkai thalaila mudi valakku'ra maadhiri :lol2:

community certificate'la irundhu DL/Passport varaikkum, lanjam kudukkaama vaanguradhu konjam illa rombavE kashtam....

thEvayaana ellaa documents vachchirundhaalum, nadula traffic police nippaattunaana, koranjapatcham 50 rs kudukkalaina atleast 2hrs ungala anga nikkavachchu vEdikkapaappaanga.... 2hrs anga veyil'la mandakaayuradhu better'aa or 50rs azhuguradhu better'aa :?:

mEla sonna prachchanaigala oru naduththara or low class kudimagan'aala samaalikka mudiyaadhu.... so avan adjust panni pOga vEndiya kattaayam nam bhaaratha samudhaayaththil irukku :banghead: :banghead:

// mEla sonna ellaamE ennOda personal experience and I am being proud to be an INDIAN :lol: awa Thamizhan :lol2: //

pavalamani pragasam

29th April 2009, 07:22 AM

Do we need a website to know the black sheep? It is a open secret!!! Everybody knows! And as for the children getting ashamed to see their parents' name in the list- how can you be so naive? It is a thick-skinned tribe! Have they any scruples, sensitivity?
The mindset of the people that money is a tool- to buy anything and to achieve anything must change. There is a pervasive selfishness in the acts and thoughts of people. And greed which breeds this odious evil of bribery!
Only through creating an awareness about the 'indecency' in giving and accepting bribes, small and big, can we hope to eradicate the malady. And we have sucha powerful tool in our hand for achieving this: MEDIA. If the popular heroes mouthed anti-bribery slogans instead of vulgarities we may see a better world in very near future!

sarna_blr

29th April 2009, 07:26 AM

and namma India... jadhi, mozhi, madham'nu pirikkappattirundhaalum, bribe/corruption'nu varumbOdhu mattum no partiality.... ellaa maanilaththulayum irukku, ellaa mozhikkaaranum panraan, ellaa jaadhikkaaranum panraan, ellaa madhaththai sErndhavanum panraan, .... ellaaththayum pannittu aprum "idhu india-ipdidhaan irukkum'nu oru vyaakkaanam vEra"...

pavalamani pragasam

29th April 2009, 07:35 AM

What an irony! Such a unifying factor!

kirukan

29th April 2009, 12:43 PM

Hi All,

Thanks for all your input.Other than app_engine there is no positive support for this idea.It means I have to drop this and accept we ppl cannot do anything to change the socity.
Media and popular heros can do that? I cannot take that point becuse all medias are corrupted now, day are gone where media was neutral.
Intha hubbil ulavargal palar nattu nallanil akkarai ullavargal athalal ingu ullavargal ondru sernthal oru solution kidaikkum endru ethirparthen.Nalla ulangal silathaga irunthalum athu onru sernthu sinthithal athan sakthi athigam athanal sathikka iyalum endru ninaithen.

Its simple saying its happening like that this and all.But its hard to find a route to solve.I dont know what we are going to leave for next generation.I am realy worried.Let it be culture,character,water,enviroment etc.
I accept it should start from self.But how to make that point to be known to all individuals that it shud start from self.There will be lot of person who may change if they get a support.How to do that?
I agree that we cannot get any work done in governtment depts without bribing.I also have done it.I cannot get a passport without bribing police for verification.I cant be adamant in that.it will be useless.
But how to change the system.Do any one of you agree this as a problem.If you agree as a problem I am damn sure there will be a solution there is no problem in the world without solution.

As a single person I cannot do anything in this regard.
Only thing I can do now is pray for the changes nothing else can be done...

kirukan

joe

29th April 2009, 01:13 PM

kirukan

29th April 2009, 02:01 PM

I agree that we cannot get any work done in governtment depts without bribing.

இதை நான் மறுக்கிறேன் .லஞ்சம் கொடுக்காமல் காரியங்கள் நடக்கும் ..ஆனால் நீங்கள் நினைக்கிற வேகத்தில் அல்ல ..கால தாமதம் ஆகும் அல்லது ஆக்கப்படும் ..ஆனால் நடக்கவே முடியாட்து போனால் அதற்கு சட்டபூர்வமாக நடவடிக்கை எடுக்க முடியும் .அதற்கு தேவையான பொறுமையும் முயற்சியும் இங்கு பலருக்கும் கிடையாது ...அடுத்தவர்களுக்கு அறிவுரை சொல்லிவிட்டு ,தனக்கென்று வரும் போது போராட நேரமும் அதற்காக முயற்சியும் எடுக்க சலிட்த்துக்கொண்டு , அதற்கான விலையைக் கொடுத்து முடிந்த வரை சீக்கிரம் தனது காரியத்தை முடித்துக்கொள்வதில் அனைவரும் காட்டும் அவசரமே லஞ்சம் வாங்குபவனின் மூலதனம் .

கொடுப்பவன் இருக்கும்வரை வாங்குபவன் இருப்பான்.

நன்றி Joe, உங்களுடைய கருத்துக்களுக்கு.லஞ்சம் கொடுப்பவர்களில் முயற்ச்சி எடுக்க சலிப்பவர்களும் உண்டு, எடுக்க முடியாத சூழ்நிலைகளும் உண்டு.வாதத்திற்்காக நீங்கள் இதையும் மறுக்க முடியும்.என்னுடைய கருத்து அதுவல்ல.
இதில் தனிமனிதனின் பங்கைவிட ஒரு குழுவின் பங்கு நல்ல பலன் தரும் என்பதே.

உயிர் போராடும் சமயம் விலை கொடுத்து முடிப்பதே முடியும் அங்கு காலம் தாழ்த்தலாகாது என்பதே என் கருத்து.

அப்படி நடக்கும் இடத்தில் ஒரு கூட்டதின் ஒலியே எடுபடுமேயன்றி தனி மனித குரலல்ல.

-கிறுக்கன்

joe

29th April 2009, 02:15 PM

நன்றி தாமரை
:roll: :lol:

Plum

29th April 2009, 06:01 PM

PR, thats a great post. Shorn of rhetoric. We need to define what is corruption without getting dogmatic or rhetorical. Was it a bribe you gave? Sonna maadhiri, what does the contractor lose? In contrast, how does that small boy gain? Great points.
(Adhellam irukkattum, daily-a orutharai train ethi vuduveenga? Bayangara samooga sevagar pola :-) )

app_engine

29th April 2009, 07:26 PM

anbu_kathir

29th April 2009, 07:58 PM

I agree that we cannot get any work done in governtment depts without bribing. ... cannot get a passport without bribing police for verification.
kirukan

Surprisingly, I did get my police verification done without bribing.
I had to go twice to the station because the first time, the inspector was not there. There was a guy in the station who handled address verification for passport, he was also away when I walked into the police station. I look like a geek and a thayir saadham guy, but I could see no 'aaha graaki maatikichu' gestures from the people that were there.

The guy who handled the verification process came in after a while and took my details. He asked me to write a letter and told me to come back after a while since the inspector was not there. He even gave me his mobile number so that I could call him up and enquire if the inspector had returned. This was a great help because eventually it turned out that the inspector never came back that day and so I was asked to come back the next day.

The next morning, the inspector was spot on time. His personal verification of me took 5 mins, and a signature later, I was done! It was a police station in Bangalore, I didn't know Kannada and I was wondering how I would get past any crap they might throw at me, but I was dealt with in English by both the first guy and the Inspector. I couldn't believe how formally it went.

In a thread that asks for exposing corrupt people, I take the opportunity to bring to light these guys. Kudos to the police station (Sadashivanagar, Bangalore) and Kudos to those government servants!

Love and Light.

P.S:: There had to be a P.S. :D. After all that happened, there was a low level guy who did mention that 'one must compulsorily collect 50 bucks for passport verification.' ....Otherwise, it was almost a dream-like experience.

P_R

29th April 2009, 10:20 PM

I remember when I got my passport in 1999. A police constable came to my house in Madurai. I was very fastidious about not paying him anything. Resisted all kinds of reasoning from the folks at home that there was no one-to-one gain from him and that it was no different from a tip. If for instance the whole passport verification was outsourced to a private agency would I find it reluctant to tip ? That question kind of dislodged me but I stubbornly refused to budge. Got the passport.

This year it was up for renewal. I didn't use any touts. Stood in different queues myself for nearly six hours to complete the procedures. A few days later a police constable came home. Welcomed him in offered the buttermilk, supplied the ration card he wanted etc. He didn't ask for anything but as he was leaving I gave him a hundred rupees and thanked him.

I am no shying away from the fact that that was a bribe.
What is the bribe, what is the courtesy here ? Buttermilk is far enough, this far and no further is perhaps the rule we should follow. He came in the morning before I left for work. He could have chosen to come in the afternoon and given a report that I don't exist. Or I may have had to bunk work to get the verification done.

My reaction would have been quite different if he had asked for it. It would have rubbed my wrong side (honestly I doubt that too nowadays).But when it looked like it was completely in my court I felt no guilt in giving away what seemed like a generous tip.But it cannot be denied that the most important reason was this: I didn't want to run the risk of the policeman writing an adverse report. I could of course stay and challenge. But I absolutely had to leave abroad on an official trip the next week. No time to stay and challenge.

I won't say I did not have a choice. I did. Everyone always has a choice. I could have dared and not tipped. And if there was some problem gone about attending it, skipped the meetings. It would have caused some major inconveniences at work. But I chose not to. It wasn't worth the hassle I thought. That is why my mind labours to find justifications like: well he did not demand, poor guy cycled in the morning to get here it's like a transport allowance, I would have surely tipped a pizza delivery boy, assume it was a private agency and they said for home delivery of the verification service I would have had to pay Rs. 100 then I would surely have had. I would have got a receipt for that. But that is another issue. The fact that I bribed is one issue the fact that I contributed Rs. 100 to the black economy is another. The second bothers me (not much as the amount is small). The first does not bother me now.

wrap07

29th April 2009, 10:25 PM

Dear Kirukkan/all,

There is a "Right to Information Act" which covers all public institutions (except ofcourse Jammu and Kashmir) with which anyone can call for information as follows:-

"Information means any material in any form including records, documents, memos, e-mails, opinions, advices, press releases, circulars, orders, logbooks, contracts, reports, papers, samples, models, data material held in any electronic form and information relating to any private body which can be accessed by a public authority under any other law for the time being in force".

Every Govt Depart are having a Public Information officer/s for this purpose and the information sought for, must be provided within 30 days from the date of request except in case of dept to dept matters.

The request can be made in writing with a fee of Rs.10 by cash in Post office or DD and if it the fee is more, the PIO will intimate the same to the applicant ensuring the reasonableness of the fee.

If the Public information officer is unable to respond to the request, he should detail the reasons why the information could not be provided and who is the appellate authority for that.
The Public Information officer will be subjected to penalty and disciplinary action in case of delay, obstruction or incomplte information.

In case of no/ incomplete response, we can directly file the complaint with the CIC, appellate authority in the website with details.

Subsequent to this act, Every public office has to give comple details of officers, duties and responsibilities, their pay details(grade wise), procedure followed in its decision making process, including channels of supervision and accountability, the norms set by it for the discharge of its functions, the rules, regulations, instructions, manuals and records used by its employees for discharging its functions. These details can be accessed from the Websites of the Government Departments.

http://righttoinformation.gov.in/
(detailed in all languages)

There is also Central Vigilance Commission wherein you can file your complaints about any particular official covering central govt and autonomous bodies. This does not cover State Govt Department staff. Complaints can be filed in CVC website and also by post. In case of the complainant wanting to maintain secrecy, " Public Interest Disclosure and Protection of Informer" mode can be follwed which is also called whistle blower and it can be done only be post wherein the complaint can be given separtely and the address details of the person can be given separately for confidentiality.

CVC has published in their website list of officials under investiagation/pending prosecution. One can even get to know the status of their complaint though their web site. CVC website has performance report on monthly basis also.

http://cvc.nic.in/

wrap07

29th April 2009, 11:12 PM

I have mentioned the systems in place, apart from the vigilance setup in each of the offices, to control/curb the menace. But, there have been instances of delays in responses and officials who were willing to provide the information shutted out. But there is more awareness as also some accountability as a result of the above systems. & Computerisation (though with lot of resistance) has helped in streamlining the functioning of Govt setup.

joe

29th April 2009, 11:18 PM

நன்றி wrap07 !

தகவல் அறியும் சட்டம்-பயன்படுத்துவது எப்படி?

தகவல் அறியும் சட்டத்தின் கீழ் எந்த ஒரு அரசு நிறுவனம், அரசு உதவி பெறும் நிறுவனம், தன்னாட்சி நிறுவனம் உள்ளிட்ட எந்த ஒரு பொது அலுவலகத்திலும் குடிமகன்கள் எந்தத் தகவலையும் கேட்டு அறியலாம்.

பொது மக்கள் எவ்வாறு தகவல் பெறலாம், அதற்கு உரிய வழிமுறைகள் என்ன என்பது குறித்து விளக்கும் செய்திக் கட்டுரை இது.

தகவல் அறியும் உரிமைச் சட்டம் நாடாளுமன்றத்தில் 11.05.2005ல் நிறைவேற்றப்பட்டது.
ஊழலை தடுத்து நிறுத்துவதற்கும், ஆளப்படுகிறவர்களுக்கு பொறுப்புணர்வை ஏற்படுத்துவதற்கும், நிர்வாகத்தின் ஒளிவு மறைவின்மையை வெளிப்படுத்துவதற்காகவும் இந்த சட்டம் கொண்டுவரப்பட்டது.

இந்த சட்டத்தின்படி அனைத்து குடிமகன்களும் தகவல் பெறும் உரிமை உடையவராவர். எந்த குடிமகன்களும் தகவல் கேட்கலாம். காரணங்கள் கூறத் தேவையில்லை.

எந்த ஒரு பொது அலுவலகத்திலும் கேட்கலாம். அரசு நிறுவனங்கள், அரசு உதவி பெறும் நிறுவனங்கள், தன்னாட்சி நிறுவனங்கள் ஆகியவை இதில் அடங்கும்.

இந்த சட்டத்தின் பிரிவு 8ல் குறிப்பிடப்பட்டுள்ள தகவல்கள் மட்டும் மறுக்கப்படலாம். உதாரணத்திற்கு நாட்டின் இறையாண்மை, வெளிநாட்டு உறவைப் பாதிப்பவை போன்றவை.

இந்திய நாட்டின் குடியரசுத் தலைவர் அலுவலகம் முதல், மத்திய, மாநில அரசு அலுவலகங்ளில் ஒரு பொது தகவல் அதிகாரி உள்ளார்.

தகவல் பெற விரும்புவோர் அவருக்கு முகவரியிட்டு நேரிலோ அல்லது தபால் மூலமாகவோ மனு கொடுக்க வேண்டும். அரசு நிர்வாகத்தின் எந்த வகையான புள்ளி விவரங்களையும் மனுக்கள் மீது எடுக்கப்பட்ட நடவடிக்கை என்ன என்பது போன்ற விவரங்களை கேட்கலாம்.

இதற்காக தனியாக ஏதும் படிவம் இல்லை. ஒரு வெள்ளை தாளில் பெயர் மற்றும் விலாசம் ஆகியவற்றை தெளிவாக தெரிவித்து தகவல் பெறும் உரிமைச் சட்டத்தின் கீழ், கீழ்கண்ட தகவல் வேண்டுகிறேன் என தெளிவாகக் குறிப்பிட வேண்டும்.

ஒரு மனுவில் எத்தனை கேள்விள் வேண்டும் என்றாலும் கேட்கலாம். ஒவ்வொரு மனுவுடன் ரூ. 10 கட்டணம் செலுத்த வேண்டும்.

இந்த கட்டணத்தை நீதிமன்ற கட்டண வில்லை ஒட்டியோ, வங்கி வரைவோலையை இணைத்தோ, அஞ்சல் ஆணையை இணைத்தோ, அரசு கருவூலத்தில் சலான் மூலமாகவோ செலுத்தலாம்.

எந்த காரணம் கொண்டும் தபாலிலோ அல்லது மணியாடர் மூலமாகவோ கட்டண தொகையை அனுப்பக்கூடாது.

சரியான அலுவலகத்தில் மனுவை அளிக்க வேண்டும்.

இவ்வாறு தகவல் கேட்கும் உங்களுக்கு 30 நாட்களுக்குள் தகவல் அளிக்கப்பட்டாக வேண்டும்.
தகவல் அளிக்கத் தவறும் அதிகாரிகளுக்கு நாள் ஒன்றுக்கு ரூ 250 வீதம் ரூ 25,000 வரை அபராதம் விதிக்க தமிழ்நாடு தகவல் ஆணையத்திற்கு அதிகாரம் உண்டு.

தவறான அலுவலகத்திற்கு மனு அளிக்கப்பட்டால் அவ்வலுவலக தகவல் அதிகாரியே சரியான அலுவலகத்திற்கு அனுப்பிவிட்டு மனுதாரருக்கு தெரிவிக்க வேண்டும். இதற்கு 5 நாட்கள் கால தாமதம் ஆகும்.

தகவல் 30 நாட்களில் கிடைக்காவிட்டால் அதே அலுவலகத்தில் உள்ள மேல் முறையீட்டு அதிகாரிக்கு விண்ணப்பிக்க வேண்டும்.

அவரும் 30 நாட்களுக்குள் சரியான தகவல்கள் அளிக்காவிட்டால் தமிழக தகவல் ஆணையத்திற்கு மேல் முறையீடு செய்து தகவல் பெறலாம்.

தமிழ்நாடு தகவல் ஆணையத்தின் முகவரி:

தலைமை ஆணையர்,
தமிழ்நாடு தகவல் ஆணையம்,
எண் 375,
முதல் தளம்,
காமதேனு கூட்டுறவு சிறப்பு அங்காடி கட்டிடம் ,
தேனாம்பேட்டை,
அண்ணாசாலை ,
சென்னை- 18.

தொலைபேசி எண் 044-24357580

மத்திய தகவல் ஆணையத்தின் முகவரி:

மத்திய தகவல் ஆணையர்.
மத்திய தகவல் ஆணையம்,
ஆகஸ்ட் கிராந்திபவன்
2 வது தளம், பி-பிரிவு.
நியு பிகாஜி காமா பேலஸ்
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தொலைபேசி எண்கள் 011-26717353, 26761137

kirukan

30th April 2009, 12:02 PM

Thanks a lot wrap07 and JOE.

This is what I am looking for.I kindly request all the hubbers to promote this website.There are lot of mails getting spread accross the globe.This will be a much useful mail to circulate.

http://cvc.nic.in/lodgecomp.htm

Once again thanks a lot wrap07 you have done a wonderful job.

sarna_blr

30th April 2009, 12:16 PM

Kirukan Sir,

indha website'a nadaththuravangal'la as well as website'la work panravangal'la bribers irukkamaattaangandreengalaa (please dont take this as counter argument) ???

kirukan

30th April 2009, 01:24 PM

Kirukan Sir,

indha website'a nadaththuravangal'la as well as website'la work panravangal'la bribers irukkamaattaangandreengalaa (please dont take this as counter argument) ???

En irukka matanga katayam irupanga.Bribe pani than intha website tendere through agirukkum.complaint page azhaga pathale therithu.12th Standard student will design a better page than that.
Antha pagekku evlo importance koduthrukanganu pathale purithu.

Please purinjukanga enoda point thani prathanayai vida koottu prathanaikku sakthi athigam enbathuthan.

How to confirm that page is working?Any one has done complaint in that and able to track the status?

sarna_blr

30th April 2009, 02:07 PM

<<< Please purinjukanga enoda point thani prathanayai vida koottu prathanaikku sakthi athigam enbathuthan. >>>

puriyudhunga... but innikku irukkura nelamaila yaarayum naama maaththa mudiyaadhundradhu ennoda abipraayam :oops:
but thirudaadhEy paappaa thirudaadhEy'nu periyavangala paaththu paadaama, chinna kozhandhangala paaththu edhukku paadunaanganu purinjikkittaalE, ungalOda kElvikku badhil kedakkum :)

joe

30th April 2009, 02:40 PM

ஊழலை ஒழிக்குறதுக்கு முன்னால கொசுத் தொல்லைய ஒழிக்கணும் :fatigue:

Plum

30th April 2009, 10:16 PM

Prabhu ram, you have captured the thought process beautifully. I think I am resigned to accepting the point #1 myself. Besides, I think, the amount people get paid in software - is it justified, I wonder? Andha parking boyku 5 rs koduthadhai eppadi neenga bribea ninaikkaliyo, adhe maadhiri dhaan thonudhu giving 100 to a underpaid public servantku...

pavalamani pragasam

30th April 2009, 10:30 PM

chinnathO perusO thappu thapputhaana?

P_R

1st May 2009, 08:55 AM

chinnathO perusO thappu thapputhaana?

thappu 'ngradhu enna appidingradhu dhaan prachanaiyE

Again another personal anecdote. This time I am bragging and not whining.

One when in college I was stopped by the traffic policeman for a regular paper check. I was a student in Mumbai and had come home to Chennai on the summer vacation was riding my father's scooter and was thus not up to date on the papers. Found the hard way that the insurance had expired a week back.

The policeman said the fine was hefty. The head-constable 'suggested' a payoff and move. When I insisted I pay the fine the seargant suggested strongly and continued playing naive
Seargant: "ennappA fine katturiyA ?"
Me: aamaam Sir.. katturEn

He wrote the slip - five times the amount that I guess would have let me off if I had bribed - I paid it in the mobile court standing next and rode back home.

This is something I felt glowing braggable about till an uncle of mine deflated my baloon ("avvaLO yOgiyamA irukkuravan, insurance-ai check paNNittu vaNdi eduththirukkaNum").

But there are several things there:

1) I was in the wrong. So it is fair that I suffer the penalty. I didn't want to get out of it by bribing. This is very different from the 'tip' example I gave earlier..

2) I was on vacation, I had nowhere pressing to go to that day. I could wait the whole day if it came to it so that I could massage my ego

2) Though I was not earning then, the fine amount was around Rs. 500-600 and I was sure my parents wouldn't mind it (as opposed to a situation if I had bribed myself out with Rs.100. If it had been Rs.5000 we all would have had a different take on it.

3)There was surely an element of "giving it back to the corrupt cop"

So even acknowledging this moral relativism of mine I think I will take high moral ground - heck that's the theme of the thread :-)

The core - as in most things in civic life - is the values inculcated in children. I have seen too many kids who are taught to value being "streetsmart". There are many households where a guy who had committed , say, a traffic offence but gotten away with a mild bribe is subtly (even if not overtly) appreciated for his cleverness. Queue jumping is appreciated, string pulling (as Joe mentioned) is lauded as a virtue. It is upto the parents and elders to create a strong sense of distaste for such things.

Yes they will be hit by reality and make their relative choices. But atleast they will 'feel' it.

I am not confident of a wipe-out. As I have expressed, I have strong self-doubts. But that does not mean we will not strive at all. Most importantly children atleast need to be aware when they step out of line that they are indeed stepping out of line. That awareness will somehow somewhere kick in. Surely the other side of the table will be clean and the consumer side can get cleaner.

Nerd

1st May 2009, 09:45 AM

If it had been Rs.5000 we all would have had a different take on it.

That's the key. Increase the fine amounts I say. If you had known you might have to pay Rs.5000 for an expired insurance document you would have definitely asked your dad if all the documents are up-to-date. Which means we are talking about eliminating such things in the root level.

Overspeeding? Rs. 2000. Ran a red light? Rs. 3000, Drink and drive? Rs. 5000 etc., Obviously these fine amounts are humongous and most people would not be able to afford. That would in fact inject some sense to the motorists. They would think twice before overspeeding or breaking any traffic law. May be, we can start collecting fines after 2-3 warnings. Nobody would dare breaking the traffic rules. The accident rates would reduce too. And police-nA oru gethu irukkum, avanga vaNdi-ya pArthAlE avanavan slow pannuvaan. The policemen would definitely like that.

And to stop giving/taking bribes we need to enforce some strict laws against government officials taking bribes and more importantly consider increasing their salaries. They are being paid peanuts in comparison with other office jobs. And may be consider giving incentives to the traffic officers who catch many cases and more importantly, report them.

Here in the USA, you would have to pay 95$ if you forgot to wear the seatbelt. Approx INR 5000!

sarna_blr

1st May 2009, 10:03 AM

Most importantly children atleast need to be aware when they step out of line that they are indeed stepping out of line. That awareness will somehow somewhere kick in. Surely the other side of the table will be clean and the consumer side can get cleaner.
:yes:

jaiganes

1st May 2009, 10:03 AM

sarna_blr

1st May 2009, 10:14 AM

Vettiya seceratariat poittu varravanukku bonus kudukaradha vida policekku neraya kudukkalaam. Indha file peruchchaalinga thollai thaanga ve mudiyalai.

:?:

jaiganes

1st May 2009, 10:50 AM

File melaye 4 mani varaikkum thoongittu government gajanaa gaal aanalum enakku 11% bonus venumnu koochame illama solravangala naan appadi thaan koopduven. he he he

P_R

1st May 2009, 10:57 AM

Nerd - Adhukku US la irukkara roads indiala irukkanum. Of course the freeways and main roads are indeed in another level in the US and Canada. But there are many roads which are actually not significantly broader and better in the West than compared to roads in cities in India. Still one would not dare to go in the kind of speeds in 'good' Indian roads too. That's because in the West you know that the probability of a random car/motorists appearing out of nowhere is very low. Here we are driving assuming anything can happen any time.

OMR is among the best roads in Chennai. Would match up to the average road quality in a second tier city in the US. Even 80kmph (50 miles per hours for you adamantly non-metric Americans :-) ) is the highest reasonable speed I can touch briefly in OMR. That's because there is no lane discipline, weaving in and out motorists etc.

Not exactly relevant to the topic here, but I wanted to add that it's not just the quality of roads that's stopping. TN's highways are getting better and better. It is this having to be prepared to expect the unexpected that is a bigger issue.

naanE car Otta thodangiya piRagu, two wheeler konjam poRuppA OtturEn. Because I understand better the potential cardiac arrests I can cause. :-)

P_R

1st May 2009, 11:04 AM

sarna_blr

1st May 2009, 11:11 AM

File melaye 4 mani varaikkum thoongittu government gajanaa gaal aanalum enakku 11% bonus venumnu koochame illama solravangala naan appadi thaan koopduven. he he he
may be neenga avangala "file peruchchaali"nu solradhukku ungalukku thagudhi irukkalaam .... but enakku illa :oops: office nEraththula office work'a pannaama hubbing/browsing panra enakku andha thagudhu illa ......

as Nerd said, traffic police people'Oda salary'ya uyarththuradhu varavErkkappadavEndiya vishayam :D
vEgaadha veyil'la enna 2 maninEram mandakaaya vachchadhukku enakkE kOvam varumbOdhu, paavam avanga :( kaalaila irundhu saaindharam varaikkum adhEy vEgaadha veyil'la :oops: even sila idangal'la nizhal-kudai kooda irukkuradhilla :oops:

ajithfederer

1st May 2009, 11:16 AM

Guys how to counter the tax evasion/black economy in India. For one of my research papers I found out that the parallel economy in India is alarmingly close to half a trillion!!

Why isn't the system of processing bills in shops not prevalent in India?. I agree with Nerd, Increase the salaries of people so that you can make them spend more and in a way Indirectly collect taxes. I am sorry but our entire system needs a revamp and a kick start. :oops:

ajithfederer

1st May 2009, 11:20 AM

Making PAN Compulsory for every citizen would be a bold step in the right direction. We should have done this long before but better late than never.

sarna_blr

1st May 2009, 11:37 AM

Guys how to counter the tax evasion/black economy in India. For one of my research papers I found out that the parallel economy in India is alarmingly close to half a trillion!!

Stanley, saadhaarana beauty soap thayaarikkuravan kooda avanOda product'ku MRP fix panna mudiyudhu, but pala kOdi makkalOda pasiya aaththura vivasaayi(almost equal to GOD)galaala avangalOda products ( like arisi, parupp, thakkaali etc ) 'ku MRP fix panna mudiyuradhilla.....
indha products'aala vivasaayigalum laabam adayuradhu illa(because they are selling at adimaattu vilai), consumers'um laabam adayuradhilla(because they are buying at gold rates), government'um laabam adayuradhu illa( idhu yEnu ungalukkE puriyum )...
appa laabam adayuradhu yaaru ???? idaiththaragargal
palasarakku kadaigal'la naan idhu varaikkum BILL kEttu vaangiyadhu illa... the fault lies on me( a citizen of India)

I guess unavuporutkalukku sariyaana vilaiyai arasu nirnayiththu adharkaana sales tax'a collect seidhaalE pOdhum, America'vukku namadhu indhiya arasaangam kadan vazhangalaam :P

today 1 KG rice 40 rs... in cities like Hyderabad and bangalore (oru dhinakkooliyin oru naal sambalam = 50 to 70 rs )

sarna_blr

1st May 2009, 11:40 AM

Making PAN Compulsory for every citizen would be a bold step in the right direction. We should have done this long before but better late than never.

Permanent residence illaadhavangalukkum Permenant Account Number'aa :P

app_engine

1st May 2009, 08:21 PM

palasarakku kadaigal'la naan idhu varaikkum BILL kEttu vaangiyadhu illa... the fault lies on me( a citizen of India)

As early as 1991, I decided that I'll buy things from only those stores that accept VISA - as much as possible:-) That totally solved the problem of asking for bill and fighting for it. Can you imagine that the jewellers were the most difficult people to get the bill, and also they'll add "extra" charge (supposedly tax) if you insist on the bill, but they'll have different books to show to authorities :-(

VISA solved such problems as there's no cash dealing and it has got be accounted somehow and the possibility to evade tax could be simply too complicated and absolutely no way of black-money stuff!

Funnily, in the last 6 years at U.S., the days I had ANY cash in my wallet are very few and I'm so happy about it:-)

Plum

4th May 2009, 08:04 PM

File melaye 4 mani varaikkum thoongittu government gajanaa gaal aanalum enakku 11% bonus venumnu koochame illama solravangala naan appadi thaan koopduven. he he he

Private concerns-la yaarumE bench thEykkiradhu illayA ?
5-10 varushathukku oru pay comission revision varradhukku ToI maadhiri papergaL sound-ai kuduppAnga. Private employees get that kind of raise every single year and not to mention bonuses. It would be delusional to think everyone is rewarded proportional to their effort.

EnnamO appidi amainjiruchu. That is all.

I too see 'small government is good' , 'revenue deficit' should be curtailed etc. But indha "only we slog they sleep" is an a big annoying generalization.

Very well put. This is what I meant in my earlier comment. Definitely, I dont see myself as worthy of the raises I have got - I mean, not that I slack at work but still, the sense of proportion is not at all there. I am saying that first because what I am going to say next is that I feel the same way for colleagues, even super-brilliant-cum-hardworking ones. Vayitherichal illai idhu.
(I also feel ennikkavadhu idhukekllam serthu aappu vekka dhaan poraanga software employeesku-num tonaradhu. But that is a different discussion.)

P_R

4th May 2009, 08:15 PM

I was one of those who feels the economy has not crashed enough. Was disappointed when it stopped short. We need an all-out disaster. Quite a pastoral fantasy (think the last scene in Fight Club). naan aaNi pudunguradhaalE ulagam azhagAyirchA ? oruthan aaNi adikkiraan, naan pudungurEn.. avan adikkiradhanaala naan pudungarEn. Konjam flasafical-A paarthA avan adikkiradhE naan pudunguradhukku dhaan.

Folks who are more rooted in reality and have genuine concern in the world need not be worried. Now that I have said it out loud, palikkaadhu.

app_engine

4th May 2009, 10:41 PM

An example of how politics can corrupt supposedly-upright people :

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=485684&disdate=5/4/2009

Poor man, he doesn't know how to manage the first lie that 'one on whom there's no case shouldn't be harassed' ends up telling that there's indeed case in the court. (பளக்கமில்லேங்கோ)

ajithfederer

4th May 2009, 10:58 PM

Recession-ae thanga mudiala, idhula depression eh? :).

I was one of those who feels the economy has not crashed enough. Was disappointed when it stopped short. We need an all-out disaster. Quite a pastoral fantasy (think the last scene in Fight Club). naan aaNi pudunguradhaalE ulagam azhagAyirchA ? oruthan aaNi adikkiraan, naan pudungurEn.. avan adikkiradhanaala naan pudungarEn. Konjam flasafical-A paarthA avan adikkiradhE naan pudunguradhukku dhaan.

Folks who are more rooted in reality and have genuine concern in the world need not be worried. Now that I have said it out loud, palikkaadhu.

Plum

5th May 2009, 01:14 AM

P_R

5th May 2009, 01:12 PM

oruthan aaNi adikkiraan, naan pudungurEn.. avan adikkiradhanaala naan pudungarEn. Konjam flasafical-A paarthA avan adikkiradhE naan pudunguradhukku dhaan.

What a thought! If you remember, I said the same in the guest thread.But you have put it in irrefutable terms

Yeah I recall Plum :-)
It is a theme that has first always interested me.

1) When I was a teen unrhyming about the pointlessness of it all etc. I came across a book by Northcote Parkinson. In his half funny half serious style he explained that people created work for each other. He took British merchant Navy data. For a period of 10 years when there was not a perceptible increase in the number of ships or volume of trade he showed how there was a doubling in the office staff onshore. What earlier required an approval now needed a cross-verification an approval by the supervisor etc. In the grander scheme of things they do not because they need to but because what would they otherwise do.

2) Theory of Value was of extensive discussion when in college. I could see intermediary after intermediary in the nature-to-consumer loop, existing for the sake of existing.

3) Much later this ripper (http://arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/E-text/Russell/praise.htm) of an essay by Bertrand Russel indicting us for completely missing to use technology. enakku appo (innum) iLagina manasu.
idhai padichittu eppidi campus intree'kku pORadhu :-)

sarna_blr

6th May 2009, 12:41 PM

3) Much later this ripper (http://arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/E-text/Russell/praise.htm) of an essay by Bertrand Russel indicting us for completely missing to use technology. enakku appo (innum) iLagina manasu.
idhai padichittu eppidi campus intree'kku pORadhu :-)

andha essay'la idhadhaan solraangalaa :?

hmmmm, appadiyE idhukku enna arththam "The morality of work is the morality of slaves, and the modern world has no need of slavery " nu sollungalEn .

sarna_blr

6th May 2009, 01:44 PM

PR, still reading that essay, i think that I understood the below para :?

"If the ordinary wage-earner worked four hours a day, there would be enough for everybody, and no unemployment-assuming a certain very moderate amount of sensible organization. This idea shocks the well-to-do., because they are convinced that the poor would not know how to use so much leisure. In America, men often work long hours even when they are already well off; such men, naturally, are indignant at the idea of leisure for wage-earners, except as the grim punishment of unemployment; in fact, they dislike leisure even for their sons. Oddly enough, while they wish their sons to work so hard as to have no time to be civilized, they do not mind their wives and daughters having no work at all. The snobbish admiration of uselessness, which, in an aristocratic society, extends to both sexes, is, under a plutocracy, confined to women; this, however, does not make it any more in agreement with common sense."

app_engine

1st August 2009, 12:11 AM

Buta singh's son arrested for asking 1 cr bribe :

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=504151&disdate=7/31/2009

அப்பன் கேஸ் போடுறான், அதை விலக்க மகன் லஞ்சம் கேக்குறான், நல்ல குடும்பம் ஐயா :-(

app_engine

5th August 2009, 10:54 PM

One more aapeesar in trouble:

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=505258&disdate=8/5/2009

app_engine

6th August 2009, 09:15 PM

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/news/2009/08/06/tn-top-esi-official-held-on-corruption-charge.html

மருந்து வாங்க லஞ்சம் கேட்ட எழிலரசி...

Another report:

http://www.dinamalar.com/fpnnews.asp?News_id=4567

app_engine

7th August 2009, 02:04 AM

http://www.dinamalar.com/sambavamnewsdetail.asp?News_id=11974

This article talks about how a doctor (Ezhilarasi, ESI medical director) who was once honest has got into disgrace due to both life style and personal tragedy (kidney failure of husband).

She supposedly has accumulated a debt of over 40 lacs (medical edu for two daughters, kidney transplant for husband and possibly an " aduththAththu ambujaththappAththELA " life style).

Now with less than 2 years for retirement, the threat of debt and life of penury in retirement loomed large.

However, these are absolutely no justifications for seeking bribe. Those drug companies are definitely going to either get the money from tax payers by jacking up the prices or playing havoc with quality, playing with lives of people - who knows, how many will lose their kidneys in using such drugs.

Definitely a lesson for all to both
a) live within one's means
b) save something / insure etc for catastrophic incidents...

app_engine

18th September 2009, 07:35 PM

kirukan

25th September 2009, 11:09 PM

[tscii:4859c50316]Hi All,

I need a suggestion from you people again. This time for personal cause. Here comes my story.
Note: Very vague story and a bad narration.

Me and my friend working together for almost 10 years we were thick friends so we used to shift the company together in our career. From 2006 we are in UAE. Sorry its not story of friendship just to given an intro.
2005 Chennai
One of my cousins was driver and working for a travels. He was staying in my home and working.I thought of getting him a car of his own and run a travels by himself. I discussed with my friend he also accepted to join hand for this. We decided that we will get a car in finance and he will pay the installments by himself.
We decided to get finance in my friends wife(As my wife was there in my native at that time) name to avoid IT problem. He gave installment cheques for 15 months. Myself and my friend shared the initial, registration and registration cost.
Other than registration all the formalities were done by my family regarding the car. So their fly doesn’t know much about the deal.
Everything was fine till Nov 2006.My cousin used to run for metro water and pay the due by himself.
Tragedy happened in Nov 2006 he met with an accident in a early morning trip and killed on the spot . It was a big shock for our fly. I was in UAE that time.
It took 3 months for us to get to normal and think of the formalities of the car.Car was taken to service center after the accident it was badly damaged. By that time finance were depositing the cheques and 15 cheque got over by feb 2007.My self and my friend went to india in feb and went to finance and explained the situation to the account manager. We said we dont want to continue please close the account.
He said, ok we will help you in that please service the car and give it back to us we will sell the car and you need to pay the balance. We thot its good deal and accepted. We came back to UAE .My elder brother was following with the service station and insurance. We didnt get the full insurance amount we paid the balance amount in service station.
My father took the car from service station and surrendered it in the finance. Finanace guy got a customer for it he made the deal and asked for the balance amount from us.My dad paid the amount and finace issued NOC for the car and it got registered to new guy from another finance.
This happened in end of 2007.

In mid of 2008 my friends family got a letter from finance saying pending payment.They sent the letter to my home and my brother went to finance they were saying the guys(Who got money from us and issued NOC) cheated the finance so you need to pay the amount, there is no proof that you have paid.
My brother has explained that we have paid the balance so only fiannce hav given NOC and allowd registration.They asked to give a detailed letter about the issue.My bro wrote and gave it to them.

Now last week my friends fly got a notice from lawer saying breach of contact.
Its a mental torchure.We lost a life, money and now peace.

My fly doesnt have any experience in business or legal activities.My brother also doesnt know how to handle this now.My friends fly is disappointed due to notice and they are afraid now.

I dont know how to handle this now.As of now i have instructed my brother to settle the amount they ask for if he doesnt find any other solution.I dont want to give him more burden.

Any suggestions to get rid of this.

-
Kirukkan.
[/tscii:4859c50316]

app_engine

25th September 2009, 11:25 PM

kirukan,

Don't pay a paisa to the company that sent the legal notice with wrong intentions.

What they're doing is unlawful and you have adequate proof (NOC by the finance company only means you've closed the loan; this is also corroborated by a gov agency by registration of the car to another, so any hypothecation claims by prior finance company is nonsense).

It seems anybody who can hire a lawyer can send a notice to some innocent person :-(

If I were in your position, I'll ignore the legal notice throwing it into the trash can.

I'll definitely worry if they send goondas after me (or if they bribe police and play havoc with me) but don't care a bit about these legal paper biz.

If your family is worried, they should seek legal help but not pay a paisa!

kirukan

25th September 2009, 11:40 PM

app_engine

25th September 2009, 11:48 PM

If someone had paid the balance and got a letter of no dues, how can they pay again?

I'm baffled :-(

Even if they agree to pay, for argument's sake - to avoid irritations, how much should they pay? What's the basis?

What is the assurance that ONE MORE legal notice, asking for more pending payment cannot come from such sharks - in reality this is like extortion!

I think it has to be fought legally, even asking for compensation for causing trouble, IMO. I'm not sure about the available legal avenues there currently (someone residing in India should be able to help).

Interestingly, there's gov sponsored legal help available here in USA if you can't afford yourself. I've recently seen an old woman known to us successfully use such service against a rowdy employer (who terminated her and made the paper in such a way that she cannot get unemployment benefit).

That employer was forced to pay all the expenses and she got the money - all within a few months!

kirukan

26th September 2009, 12:00 AM

Even if they agree to pay, for argument's sake - to avoid irritations, how much should they pay? What's the basis?

What is the assurance that ONE MORE legal notice, asking for more pending payment cannot come from such sharks - in reality this is like extortion!

!
Note: we dont have any invoice for payment we have the copy of NOC given to RTO at the time of registration.

You are right and good questions.I dont have any answers..
Its utter foolishness to pay again...
Looking for a way out of this....

Kirukkan.

app_engine

26th September 2009, 12:31 AM

Here in U.S., if the loan agency gives a release letter for the title (each vehicle has a "title" which is equivalent of our RC book), that's the end of it. No further claim of any loans. One need not worry about what all payments made, individual receipts for the payments etc. I don't think anyone needs to keep all those. Only the title release is required.

I tend to think the same way in Indian law as well. If I remember correct, the bank gave me a letter when I closed the car loan and with that the RTO office did strike out the hypothecation stuff on the RC book.

Now, in this case, the car is also sold and registered to another person. There cannot be any claim at all in any of the old dues. (Unlike U.S., in India, the reg number of the vehicle remains same with the new owner and that makes it even easy for you. Here the number changes everytime - called the 'tag' - all the history is traced through VIN, a 17 character vehicle identification number).

kirukan

26th September 2009, 12:09 PM

[tscii:b3c34f8444]Hi All,

I need a suggestion from you people again. This time for personal cause. Here comes my story.
Note: Very vague story and a bad narration.

Me and my friend working together for almost 10 years we were thick friends so we used to shift the company together in our career. From 2006 we are in UAE. Sorry its not story of friendship just to given an intro.
2005 Chennai
One of my cousins was driver and working for a travels. He was staying in my home and working.I thought of getting him a car of his own and run a travels by himself. I discussed with my friend he also accepted to join hand for this. We decided that we will get a car in finance and he will pay the installments by himself.
We decided to get finance in my friends wife(As my wife was there in my native at that time) name to avoid IT problem. He gave installment cheques for 15 months. Myself and my friend shared the initial, registration and registration cost.
Other than registration all the formalities were done by my family regarding the car. So their fly doesn’t know much about the deal.
Everything was fine till Nov 2006.My cousin used to run for metro water and pay the due by himself.
Tragedy happened in Nov 2006 he met with an accident in a early morning trip and killed on the spot . It was a big shock for our fly. I was in UAE that time.
It took 3 months for us to get to normal and think of the formalities of the car.Car was taken to service center after the accident it was badly damaged. By that time finance were depositing the cheques and 15 cheque got over by feb 2007.My self and my friend went to india in feb and went to finance and explained the situation to the account manager. We said we dont want to continue please close the account.
He said, ok we will help you in that please service the car and give it back to us we will sell the car and you need to pay the balance. We thot its good deal and accepted. We came back to UAE .My elder brother was following with the service station and insurance. We didnt get the full insurance amount we paid the balance amount in service station.
My father took the car from service station and surrendered it in the finance. Finanace guy got a customer for it he made the deal and asked for the balance amount from us.My dad paid the amount and finace issued NOC for the car and it got registered to new guy from another finance.
This happened in end of 2007.

In mid of 2008 my friends family got a letter from finance saying pending payment.They sent the letter to my home and my brother went to finance they were saying the guys(Who got money from us and issued NOC) cheated the finance so you need to pay the amount, there is no proof that you have paid.
My brother has explained that we have paid the balance so only fiannce hav given NOC and allowd registration.They asked to give a detailed letter about the issue.My bro wrote and gave it to them.

Now last week my friends fly got a notice from lawer saying breach of contact.
Its a mental torchure.We lost a life, money and now peace.

My fly doesnt have any experience in business or legal activities.My brother also doesnt know how to handle this now.My friends fly is disappointed due to notice and they are afraid now.

I dont know how to handle this now.As of now i have instructed my brother to settle the amount they ask for if he doesnt find any other solution.I dont want to give him more burden.

Any suggestions to get rid of this.

-
Kirukkan.
[/tscii:b3c34f8444]
Any legal suggestions?

wrap07

29th September 2009, 01:24 PM

Gov has started publishing the names of corrupt officials (i.e. those who got caught) on the web :

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=514918&disdate=9/18/2009

Does anyone know the site's address?

http://www.cvc.nic.in/

from newspapers:-

The CVC, the country's corruption watchdog, has either advised penalty or prosecution for corruption against the officials.

"This is for the first time that we have displayed the list of officers against whom we have given the sanction for prosecution," Central Vigilance Commissioner Pratyush Sinha told IANS.

Releasing the list of officials, the CVC stated that it would do so on a regular basis. The list includes names of 101 officials against whom the commission has suggested imposition of "major penalty".

Of these, 17 are working in nationalised banks, 13 in Delhi Development Authority and 11 in the Municipal Corporation of Delhi.

Of the 22 officers against whom prosecution proceedings have been advised, seven are from the home ministry -- four of them are IPS officers, seven from the Central Board of Direct Taxes and two from the Indian Forest Service.

The anti-corruption agency has also recommended heavy penalty against nine officials each from the ministry of railways and the New India Assurance Company Ltd, and 11 from the Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC).

"In furtherance of the transparency initiatives and the spirit of the RTI (Right To Information) Act, 2005, the Central Vigilance Commission has decided to regularly post information/details of cases pending for sanction for prosecution over four months with organisations/departments," reads a message on the CVC's website.

"Cases where (the) commission has advised issuance of sanction for prosecution during the month and cases where (the) commission had advised imposition of suitable major penalty during the month," it said.

The commission was quite active a few years ago when N. Vittal headed it.

wrap07

30th September 2009, 11:45 AM

Quattrocchi set to walk free, officially

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Quattrocchi+set+to+walk+free,+off icially&artid=aBYgjbTpJfY=&SectionID=b7ziAYMenjw=&MainSectionID
=b7ziAYMenjw=&SectionName=pWehHe7IsSU=&SEO=

:P

wrap07

30th September 2009, 11:58 AM

http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/30/stories/2009093060401000.htm

Centre withholding papers on black money: Jethmalani

"The public interest litigation petition alleged inaction on the part of the Centre in bringing back black money from foreign banks.

The petitioners had sought 21 documents and letters, including the Indian government’s communication with German authorities, UBS AG Switzerland and LGT Bank, Liechtenstein, a tax haven. They had also sought certain documents on the case registered against Pune-based businessman Hasan Ali Khan, against whom the Enforcement Directorate lodged a complaint for violating the Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA)."

app_engine

1st October 2009, 03:14 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8281960.stm

End of the பீரங்கி ஊழல் case.

I remember the pages and pages of evidence being published on the hindu regarding this scandal two decades ago. This article talks about the kickbacks > $ 1 bn.

Possibly the investigation spent a similar amount of money (who knows, may be more than that). If there was no investigation, at least that money could have been saved!

app_engine

7th October 2009, 12:34 AM

http://www.dinamalar.com/new/General_detail.asp?news_id=17615

Former CBI director clarifies that it's the gov that withdraws the Quottrochi case as a "decision" and NOT based on "lack of evidence from CBI" as reported.

He claims enough evidence had been submitted during his tenure in the 90's.

vijayr

26th October 2009, 11:05 PM

wiping out corruption from India?!!

Hmm... we have still not been able to wipe out DMK from TN yet, after 40 yrs :-) And now they have spread their wings of corruption at the National level.

app_engine

26th October 2009, 11:11 PM

ada, vijayr after a long time, in an unexpected thread :-)

Digression -

Did you hear 'kunnaththE'?

End-digression

leosimha

3rd November 2009, 03:07 PM

[tscii:b866d3f0f4]

Karunanidhi’s real motives exposed
Sunday, November 1, 2009

By Satheesan Kumaaran

(November 01, Colombo, Sri Lanka Guardian) The 86-year-old cunning, southern Indian State of Tamil Nadu politician, Muthuvel Karunanidhi, popularly known as Kalaigner, entered politics at the age of 14. He was inspired by Alagiriswamy of the Justice Party’s speech, and has done nothing for the Tamil society for their empowerment, although he claims he is working hard for the Tamils’ empowerment and to establish their rights. His real motives have been exposed through many events, but the latest one is through the drama that he was the saviour of Sri Lankan Tamils when they were facing genocidal war instigated by the Sri Lankan State, which ended grief stricken in May this year, with the loss of nearly 30,000 civilians, while incarcerating another 300,000 civilians in the barbed-wires camps where the Sri Lankan State prohibits visitors, including the UN agencies, with the exception to the ten-member Indian parliamentary delegation, who had the first opportunity to pay visit to the camps.

After the Indian MPs delegation returned to India, they submitted the reports to Karunanidhi, and later on, to Indian Prime Minister and Indian Congress Party leader Sonia Gandhi. The latter two people who are, in reality, taking revenge on the LTTE for the murder of Rajiv Gandhi, the former Indian Prime Minister and husband of Italian-born incumbent Congress party leader Sonia Gandhi.

Karunanidhi’s DMK is an ally of the ruling Indian central government, led by Manmohan Singh. When the Tamils were dying, India allegedly provided weapons to Sri Lanka to launch military attacks against the LTTE. When the opposing parties in Tamil Nadu exposed the real face of Karunanidhi, he and his allies issued contradictory statements. One said India did not provide weapons to Sri Lanka. Then, they acknowledged that India provided the weapons to Sri Lanka on the plea that India wanted to maintain friendship with Sri Lanka, as if India’s reluctance to provide weapons will force Sri Lanka to join hands with India’s enemies, Pakistan and China.

Also, he held several demonstrations, including fast protest, which was nothing but to ease the tension that arose due to the ongoing suffering of Tamils in Eelam, and also to counter the chain of protests conducted by the opposing parties.

The Indian delegation’s visit was nothing but a showpiece to hoodwink the international community in general, and Tamils around the world in particular, which would only serve Karunanidhi to show that he is doing everything for the welfare of the Tamils. He has the belief that the Tamils will celebrate his death when he dies in the future, as how the Tamils were celebrating the former Tamil Nadu Chief Minister, the late M. G. Ramachandran, who broke out from DMK, and formed ADMK, and ruled Tamil Nadu without a break for 13 years, and did not even give a chance for Karunanidhi to become Chief Minister. Ramachandran was a great patronage of Tamils, who even gave money in the early 1980s to the LTTE from his pocket and allocated funds for the LTTE from the Tamil Nadu treasury to fight against the Sri Lankan State, as it was treating the Tamils as second class citizens. And Tamils all around the world keep Ramachandran in their hearts and souls. So, Karunanidhi is trying his best to show that he, too, helps the Tamils as Ramachandran did, but no one needs to be a rocket scientist to realize the Karunanidhi’s real motives, because without a doubt, he will hoodwink the uneducated and poor Tamil Nadu people forever with his literature and dramatic talents. However, it is unlikely that he can hoodwink the Eelam and Diaspora Tamils. They will never be convinced by his speeches, arguments and actions.

Karunanidhi done enough damage to Tamil society

Karunanidhi had done enough for damaging the Tamil society, whether they live in India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, South Africa, Mauritius, Singapore, or elsewhere. The Tamils living around the world are grief-sicken after they heard the story of the demise of the LTTE and especially as they feel that they will be treated as slaves because they were having the dream of achieving an independent State for Tamils so that the State will represent them whenever they face any hardships elsewhere. Their desire is for the State to really stand up to support them if they face any hardships in any other country wherever they live.

Tamils around the world no longer trust the future State of Tamil Nadu, as the politicians do not really have the hearts and minds to stand up giving voice when the Tamils anywhere face hardships, and whenever their values are at the mercy of the majority community. Tamil Nadu, as a quasi-federal State of India, has been granted much less autonomy than any other federal system of governments existing, especially in the western countries. The Tamil Nadu State has no power to stand up to save their brethrens, even when the Tamils die in the other States of India. But, the Tamil Nadu politicians did nothing to save the Tamils, even though these politicians are influential and help the government to stay in power in New Delhi.

Unfortunately, these politicians support New Delhi just for power, because these politicians demand central government to allocate ministerial posts. A classic example is that Karunanidhi’s nephew, the late Murasoli Maran, was holding a ministerial post in New Delhi for decades till his death. After his demise, Maran’s son held the senior minister’s post. Maran’s another son, Kalanidhi Maran, runs the Sun Network, India’s second largest television network. According to Forbes, Kalanidhi is among India’s richest 20 with $1.9 billion. Karunanidhi cut the relationship with Maran’s family members after three Dinkaran newspaper employees were killed by Karunanidhi’s son, Azhagiri’s supporters, for carrying out stories against Karunanidhi’s real motive to bring another son, Stalin, who is now the deputy chief minister of Tamil Nadu, as the next Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. The Dinakaran paper is also owned by Maran’s family.

The Karunanidhi and Maran families gave money to the murdered members of the Dinakaran employees, but the accused Azhagiri, the prime who were also accused in the murder case of the former DMK Minister Kiruttinan, won the elections held recently and he is now a minister in Indian central government. It is no secret that Azhagiri functions as an extra constitutional authority in Madurai, though he has never held a party post, and is a liability to the party and is not yet expelled. Further, Karunanidhi’s daughter, Kanimozhi, has been nominated for a Rajya Sabha post, even though she has done very little for the party, as pointed out by critics and many of his party members.

Karunanidhi has married three times. His wives are Mrs. Padmavathy, Mrs. Dayalu Ammal, and Mrs. Rajathiammal. His sons are M.K Muthu, who was born to Padmavathy and passed away. M.K. Azhagiri, M.K. Stalin, M.K Tamilarasu, and his daughters are Selvi and Kanimozhi, who were born to Dayalu Ammal. Kanimozhi is the only daughter from his third wife, Rajathiammal. Karunanidhi is fostering his children slowly in politics, and they secure high profile posts immediately after they are introduced into politics, because Karunanidhi is giving prominence to his children rather than working for the betterment of the Tamil society. Karunanidhi, during most of his political career, at the expense of the ignorance and poverty of the Tamil Nadu people, and through corruption, built up his own empire of a near-dynasty of enormous wealth and nepotism.

One of the 10-member MPs who visited the camps in Vanni in the second week of October, this year, is the leader of the Dalit Panthers of India, Thirumavalavan who, while speaking to the Tamilnet newswire on October 23 said, “There was a total violation of human rights in the Sri Lankan government’s camps for Internally Displaced Persons.”

He further said: “The people are stashed away like cows and dogs and pigs in barbed wire camps. There are about 45,000 to 55,000 people in the six main camps. In some cases, where the overcrowding is simply unbearable, they have created additional camps for about 5,000 to 15,000 people...One of the major problems that people face is to get water for drinking and bathing purposes. The water supply is extremely irregular and insufficient. I heard the people tell me that they had to keep awake for a whole week in order to get five liters of water, which is supposedly their daily ration... I also observed that people were not allowed to move from one concentration camp to another. Every camp was within a barbed wire. People were not able to meet their relatives in another camp”

He said: “People are also afraid of speaking freely since they were being photographed. The fear of monitoring has certainly silenced them...Overall, I feel that the Government of Sri Lanka will not follow the six-month deadline which it assured to New Delhi for letting these people return. I feel that even ten percent of the people are yet to be sent back, and no effort seems to have been taken in that direction...In my opinion, Tamil Eelam is the only solution. Thousands of civilians and more than thirty thousand fighters is the price we have paid so far in this struggle. The Tamil people cannot live as second class citizens in Sri Lanka. Hence, Tamil Eelam is the only solution.”

But, the other nine MPs, comprising the DMK and the Congress Party, maintain silence about the plights of Eelam Tamils. Karunanidhi comes out strongly to say that the Sri Lankan President is doing everything possible to release the Tamils from the camps and he trusts the President. Karunanidhi said in the Tamil Nadu assembly in July, this year, that achieving ‘Tamil Eelam’ was no more a realistic possibility. He said Tamils should henceforth work for their livelihood rights in the island nation and struggle for equal rights, equal status for the language, and devolution of powers at the regional level. “Only this is possible, not Tamil Eelam,” he said, responding to views of members from various parties on a special mention on the Sri Lankan Tamil issue. He asked the parties not to make provocative remarks against the Sinhalese as that could further affect Tamils in the island nation. Hence, Karunanidhi has done enough damage to Tamil society, and Tamils should be aware that they should not trust Karunanidhi anymore for obtaining their rights.

Karunanidhi: A hero of corruptions

The Tamil Nadu population are still living in poverty, mostly while Tamil Nadu becomes the State of opportunists who hail from other parts of India and are taking control of the major leading industries, most commonly the pawn brokers who are non-inhabitants of Tamil Nadu and own and operate the pawn brokerage stores, which are a leading money making industry. And hundreds of thousands of Tamil Nadu inhabitants work in the industries owned by people who come to Tamil Nadu in search of greener pasture. But, these poor employees make less than a dollar per day, the minimal living expense of a large family. Many other economic and political oppressions are taking place in Tamil Nadu, but the people who hailed from other States in India have entered Tamil Nadu and dominated the economic and political powerhouses, taking few actions to empower the locals of Tamil Nadu, enabling legislations for the betterment of outsiders while almost nothing is done to the locals. This oppression of locals negates any progress for Tamils since British rule. Karunanidhi, too, is from such a clan, and he does not take actions for the welfare of locals who made him a greater political and economic successor. And in return, he is contributing enormously to the destruction of the Tamil society for which he remains thankful, but in reality, does not observe.

Karunanidhi did not rise to this merit through economics and politics, but rather through his corruption and other forms of malpractices. He was indicted by the Sarkaria commission for corruption in allotting tenders for the Veeranam project. Former Indian Prime Minister, the late Indira Gandhi, dismissed the Karunanidhi government, based on charges of possible secession and corruption. Earlier, Karunanidhi, the former chief secretary, K.A. Nambiar, and a host of others, were arrested in the wee hours on charges of corruption in the construction of flyovers in Chennai. He and his party members where charged under Sections 120(b) (criminal conspiracy), 167 (public servant framing an incorrect document with intent to cause injury), 420 (cheating), and 409 (criminal breach of trust) of the Indian Penal Code, and Section 13 (2), 13 (1) (d) of the Prevention of Corruption Act. But, he is a cunning politician who comes out clean after proving that he is innocent. It is no doubt that he is a great administrator and he is one of the living political legendaries. He is a highly respected man in India. But, his words and actions have double meaning. In reality, he and his supporters claim that Karunanidhi is a leader of world Tamils. But their such claims have no ground because he is actually the primary cause for the deaths of nearly 30,000 Tamils in Eelam, and to the destiny of nearly 300,000 Tamils, in the barbed-wire camps, in Vavuniya.

Karunanidhi’s real motives have been exposed, but it is unlikely that the poor peasants in Tamil Nadu will realize this soon. And definitely, he will be kept to the heir as the leader, even after he is dead, in Tamil Nadu, because he is leaving behind his family members to remain in power, and they will keep the pride of Karunanidhi. But in reality, since he came to politics at 14 years of age, he did everything to secure the DMK leadership from ways of manipulating others, and he got the good certificate from founder and leader of the DMK, Annadurai, who, rather than brining his family members to politics, passed the party into the hands of Karunanidhi, with the belief that Karunanidhi would work hard to the empowerment of the Tamil Nadu people. But Karunanidhi, after capturing the DMK, did nothing to the empowerment other than empowering himself, his children, and relatives into politics, and made a fortune in entrepreneurships, which could never come to an end for at least the next century. What is pathetic is that Tamils cannot come out of this powerful established network, a network of nepotism, that will always join hands with the powerful elites, just for the sake of their own fortunes, uncaring and unmindful of the people they lead. Hence, Indian Tamils, Eelam Tamils, and the millions of Tamils who live across the world, should realize the real motives of Karunanidhi and his associates.

(The author can be reached at e-mail: satheesan_kumaaran@yahoo.com)

Link - http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2009/11/karunanidhis-real-motives-exposed.html[/tscii:b866d3f0f4]

app_engine

17th November 2009, 11:34 PM

India ranked 84th by Transparency International :
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3420455

Sudhaama

3rd December 2009, 12:48 AM

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"I wholeheartedly SWEAR in the name of God as well as MY CONSCIENCE...

..that ... I WILL NOT RECEIVE BRIBE... Nor be the Cause for Corruption.!

...but I CANNOT SWEAR... nor commit....

....that I WILL NOT GIVE BRIBE.!!"...

---Said Mr. Sri-Prakasa, Ex. Governor of Madras State.

When Mr. Sri-Prakasa the REPUTED Mr. CLEAN... highly respectable Gentleman of that Era...

...was offered by Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru... the Top post as Chief-Commissioner of Anti-Corruption Board...

...that was his BLUNT Reply.. to the Prime-Minister.!

Further he justified by reasoning...

"Yes. My dear Nehruji, I cannot get my personal job done... if I do not pay to the respective men in power.

However, Anti-Corruption measures....by DEALING WITH THE PEOPLE... through such a powerful Government body...

... no doubt can mitigate the present situation of Shady transactions due to offer from the Payers... the Businessmen and the People

But any amount of action from such a Govt. body on the CORRUPT POLITICIANS cannot serve its purpose.

So to say... YOU POLITICIANS SHOULD CORRECT YOURSELVES.. but Not by the Government NOR the PEOPLE..

...who has seated You the Politicians in the Throne of Powers...

...TRUSTING YOU ALL POLITICIANS... for Honesty and Sincerety.!!" said Sri-Prakasa.

Whether anybody relishes it or not... this is the FACTUAL SITUATION....

..which is FORCING THE BUSINESSMEN to reseve Buffer-money.... HANDY for such Out of the way UNFORESEEN demands... BEHIND THE CURTAIN...

...Generating Black-Money.. which has become the DIRE NECESSITY for the Businessmen...

...EVEN TO EXIST... IN THE MARKET... if not thrive.!

.Such a situation is the GLOBAL PENOMENA...

...More conspicuous in India.!
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So even if such a Hidden-Account facility is sealed or nullified...

....the Businessmen will definetely make another such a Facility for their interests

...Until and Unless the Powerful Rulers seated on Mini and Mighty Thrones.... mend themselves.!
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The Condition is worse now... because of lack of Timely Check. and sincere action by the Politicians in power.

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