Who is the God in Nan Kadavul?

[pradheep]

Who is the God in nan Kadavul. A very thought provoking questions and a discussion on that.

http://matrixjourney.com/nan-kadavul.htm

[Shakthiprabha.]

hi pradeep, I am happy to see u back in hub. :)

[pradheep]

Dear SP,
Thank you. After a long time I am back.
This movie discussion would help to clarify lot of doubts regarding religion, science and spirituality.

[pradheep]

[tscii]Who is the God in Nan Kadavul?

When the blind (heroine?) girl is brutally beaten and disfigured by the villain, she asks the Hero the question, why none of the Christian , Muslim or Hindu Gods did not rescue her?. This statement gives an impression that the Movie tends to be atheistic by questioning the very basic belief of all religions that there exists a God that is protective and compassionate. If such a God exists, then why should many innocent people suffer and why not God save them?

Like the heroine we all should ask this questions to ourselves if we are a religious person believing in the existence of a God that creates us and controls us and protects us and is that God a Hindu, Muslim , Christian, a Buddhist or a Zorastrian?.

If there is such a God then why should innocent people suffer? When people suffer and cry for help, who actually helps them?. Only a compassionate human being man alone can wipe the tears of suffering. The more we are educated and getting civilized, the less compassionate we are. We grow more religiously finally becoming fanatic, which then emerges in the form of terrorism threatening our own existence.
Every human being, when helpless in life turns towards God. The heroine in the movie is no exception, who first pleads Hindu gods, then turns towrds Christian God, then the Muslim God and again Hindu Gods. But none of them saves her from the brutal inhumane villain.

When no God(s) help her, the heroine finally takes refuge in a young man named Rudran, who self proclaims “I am God” (Aham Brahmasmi). The same death that he employs to punish the villains, he also uses to relieve the heroine from suffering in life. Can we accept his action of giving her death to end suffering in life, as divine? How can we approve the Director’s portrayal of a mortal Man as God?. How can a Director who himself claims to be an atheist, use an Agori, who Self claims to be God (Aham Brahmasmi) to give relief to suffering?. This aspect has confused many viewers wondering what the Director is conveying through the movie.

The director who spoke through the heroine that no God helped her and all religions are only commercial business corporations, then portrays Rudra who chants "I am God" - Shivoham, Shivoham. Does this mean that the director says that only Rudra-Shiva is the only True God?. Certainly not. Through various symbols he has beautifully given the answer that religions does not help mankind but only spirituality (in form of Compassion) can save mankind. (Click here to read the difference between religion and spirituality).

Story of Beggars
The core story of this movie is about the Villan "Thandavan" who uses handicapped people for his own materialistic interest by employing them in begging. He uses fear and physical abuse as a means to control the group. The whole group lives in a underground construction not known to common public. Thandavan has few other gundas to run his business.

To this South Indian Village, Rudra, the Agori is brought back home by his dad and sister. When Rudra was a small boy , listening to an astrologer , the dad leaves the boy in Kasi. After several years, due to the pressure from the mother, he goes to Kasi in search of the boy. He finds Rudra among a unique sect of ritualistic people called Agori’s. Obeying his Guru’s command, Rudra returns to his village.

Thandavan’s assistant forcefully brings a blind-singer girl (heroine) to the group. A Malayali business agent tempts thandavan to trade some of his beggar-individuals bringing pain of separation in the group. Tempted for more profits, the agent brings an repulsive looking guy who wants to bed with the blind girl. When the blind girl refuses, the angry Thandavan brutally beats her with a stone disfiguring her face and body. She finally takes refuge in Rudran, who kills the villains as an act of punishing anti-social guys and also kills the girl to end her painful life. Rudra then returns to his Guru.

Symbolic message of the Movie
Outwardly this movie seems to be a story of about beggary, a commercial exploitation of both born and forcefully handicapped people by a group of villains. The director has poignantly portrayed the pains and emotions of joy of the beggar group. We are shown their dignified life in the movie which is a commendable job. Through these characters the director has indirectly pointed out the commercialization in all walks of life.

Beggars use various costumes of Gods and Goddesses, Godmen, movie artists businessmen etc. The Symbolism of this core theme is that we are all merely living our lives for materialistic business. All commercial corporations and religious organizations are only doing materialistic business in this world. In the name of temples and churches the religious organizations are only interested in materialistic wealth. We ruthlessly use the images of God and Goddesses for commercial benefits which is symbolized as beggars using the cosmetics of Murugan, Krishna, Hanuman, Andal etc. This concept is reiterated in Ilayaraja's melodious musical score - Pichai pathiram enthi vanthen). The lyrics mean that we come to this world with a begging bowl which is nothing but made of blood, flesh and nervous tissues. The cause for our birth is our own itchai or desire.

Business-love
The director has shown this vested commercialization interest in all walks of life including human relations. Look at the emotional business that the mother does to Arya. "I have given birth to you with so much difficulty for 10 months". Our human relations have no real-love, everything is for give and take business policy. We use the word “love” to someone only if there is a reciprocating benefit for us. This benefit-based-love is the opposite of Compassion or un-conditional love. Unfortunately we mistake un-conditional-love for business-love and each member in such a business-relation begs for each other’s love.

When Rudra quotes the Pattinathar song, explaining the role of the mother and her role in life, we see a clear-faced mother who utters the word "He is a Swyambu", which means that which is not created, it is Self. In Indian spiritual philosophy, Spirit (Self or Aham) is Swyambu or uncreated. It always exists. In Modern science this is known as Consciousness. Matter (Energy) is created or arises from Spirit or Consciousness. The matter then undergoes evolution in all forms and finally in Human body Self-realizes itself as Spirit. This simple science, Indian Spiritual masters symbolized as Sakthi merging with Shiva.

Spirit and Matter: The feeling of matter (materialization) is called as “Ahamkaara” or Ego. The villain “Thandavan” represents the Ego that controls our life through fear and insecurity feeling. The few moments of pleasures keep our life going, but on the whole the life is only a commercial business for the Ego. It is the Ego in us that controls all our thoughts, like Thandavan controlling all the beggars. We are unaware of this Ego controlling us and take it for granted, which is termed as Maya.

This reality we conveniently ignore and finally get frustrated with life when we face deep sorrow in life due to our Ego. This is the time we seek for complete relief from suffering in life. The only thing that can relieve us from suffering is our own Spirit or Self (Aham). This Spirit (Aham) which is free from bondages and so can give relieve us from the bondages of Ego control. This is very beautifully symbolically shown when the heroine grasps the legs of Rudra, the Hero for help, like Sakthi (Energy-matter) merging with Spirit (Shiva). She wears a red-skirt symbolizing sakthi and finally merging with Shiva. The unification is symbolized though the red- eye like symbol in Rudra’s forehead and the throat of the Blind girl.

Aham Brahmasmi – I am God
That is the best scene in the movie. It is the awakening of sleeping spirit in us. If we are not aware of this spirit, then Ego in us will exploit us and we will go into a life of frustration. This spirit is the Aham, which Rudra identifies as Aham Brahmasmi – Nan Kadavul. This Maha vakya is from BrihadAraNya- Upanaishad, the explanatory notes of Vedas.

This Spirit is the Consciousness in us, which is also the source of all creation and is the only one reality. This Consciousness is called as God (many names) in different religions. This awakening is the very purpose of life. This can happen only under the tutelage of a Guru. This is why the Guru is shown the beginning and the end of the movie.

Rudra in Indian Spiritual philosophy represents the awakened power of consciousness to destroy "Ego". The destruction of Ego alone can give us liberation. This is what the heroine cries for. She says not only this birth but all future births she wants to avoid. This is symbolically given in the movie. She does not suffer from her Ego, but the Ego that controls her is the cause of her suffering. The same message holds good for us too. We are not the Ego, but the Ego in us control us and end up in suffering. Moksha or Mukthi is our liberation from the control of Ego. If not we keep taking births after births.

Birth & Re-births: The blind heroine in the end cries that she is tired of being changed hands after hands symbolize our own births and rebirths. She says she is sick of it and wants to end it. The births and rebirths are very painful (death and birth) because we already get attached to members of family and friends. It is painful at both the ends. This reminds us the scenes when heroine is separated from her old group to a new group of Thandavan. The feeling of separation from the old group is akin to our lamenting for death of our relative. In the new birth (new place) it is painful for accustoming to the new relations. Sidhars says this is why new-born babies cry and all relations are temporary. This is symbolized through the dialogues of the heroine who talks about the father she misses, was not her real father.

Cosmic creation: Nan Kadavul is one the best movies ever produced with the deep questions of our own inner quest. The movie starts with the beautiful cosmic creation and our own being (remember the pictures of galaxy and revolving planets).
What we see is not always real, example, the Earth looks like stationary and the Sun revolves. The truth is the opposite, so do not believe the senses. The director aptly has chosen the old "Kannadasan's song - kannai Nambathe, unnai emattrum.

Modern science has helped us to understand many natural phenomenon of the universe, but is struck with the very basic question of our Human Consciousness. Science can only quench this thirst with the help of Spirituality and not through Religion.

Discovering our own spiritual nature is the ultimate purpose of Mankind. We are not just this material body but the spirit (Self or Aham). This inner awakening burns out all karmas and we are free from bondage from future births. Otherwise we are again and again born with ichai (desire) and do pitchai (begging) in this world. (See the beautiful lyrics of Pitcahi pathiram enthivanthen).

When desires later transforms into lust, the Ego tortures us. The lust (kaama veri) has an ugly face which is symbolized as the character who wants to have sex with the blind heroine. The malayali Nair agent shows the ways of how changing the products for season and location can bring better business. This is shown as his interest trade the beggars he has in his custody. These different faces of Ego has to be transcended. This is shown as killing of the villains. Only by killing the Ego villain within us, we can attain liberation. This death is a punishment for the Ego, but a varam (blessing) for the Indiviudal. In Indian spirituality, this killing of Ego is depicted through various rituals.

Rituals: All rituals have this aim of inner transformation. Unfortunately rituals are done in religion without an understanding of this inner transformation. These are indirectly critisized through the prostitute who laments that in December month because of ritualistic marghazhi month and Sabarimalai season she has to starve. Rituals are done just for ritual sake without the awareness of the inner transformation. Hence people continue to do evil actions after performing the rituals.

There are many many deep information coded in this wonderful movie. All the actors especially Arya and Pooja, and the supporting actors have done a very commendable work. It is a life time opportunity they have got which they have done the best. Arya's walk is so commendable, showing the energy of Rudra. Rudra destroys Ego.

Aham Brahasmi ( I am God)
A Hindu or Christian might worship in front of on idol or image of Jesus or Ganesha or kaali. A Muslim might pray without an idol or image in open air. Whatever it is , all their prayers are spoken to within their Self (Aham). No one prays so loud to an unseen God far up in the sky. Every religious person says the prayer silently to one Self (Aham) with the belief that God is hearing their prayer.

Then the question is where and who is God?.
The closest distance between us and God is our own Self (Aham). What we share with us and God is the “Self” (Aham). It is the Self (Aham) that prays to the Self (Aham), silently. So the prayers are towards our own Self (Aham) and the results also comes to the Self (Aham). A religious person believes that the God to whom he or she is praying is somewhere outside in the universe. They do not realize that they speak silently to their own Self (Aham).

A spiritual person is aware of this truth that the Self (Aham) is God and sees this Self, as the same in everyone and everything. This is the key difference between a religious and Spiritual person. This truth is what is proclaimed as “Aham Brahmasmi” – I am God, the God in Nan Kadavul movie.

[pradheep]

av

[leosimha]

It is more of Advaithic Philosophy. Am I right?

[A_Ajith]

Adhaan hero ve soldrare the self is god aham brahmasmi nu apuram ena sir doubt ungaluku :P

[leosimha]

hmm....I haven't seen the movie but for the trailer. irundhallum too much of doubts.... that's why? :)

[pradheep]

The movie can be also seen in www.focustamil.com

[Shakthiprabha.]

Pradeep,

I am keen on ur view/take on agoris.

[pradheep]

Dear Sk
Can you specify your question. Are you asking my views on Agoris?

[pradheep]

It is more of Advaithic Philosophy. Am I right?

Knowingly or unknowingly all are advaiti, whether a religious or spiritual or atheist. We are all praying to ourselves (Aham) only. An atheist is wishing to himself and also executing that. A religious person thinks of some super power outside but still praying and talkign to the self (Aham) only.

[Shakthiprabha.]

yes, ur views :) and knowldge about them (their history etc)

[leosimha]

It is more of Advaithic Philosophy. Am I right?

Knowingly or unknowingly all are advaiti, whether a religious or spiritual or atheist. We are all praying to ourselves (Aham) only. An atheist is wishing to himself and also executing that. A religious person thinks of some super power outside but still praying and talkign to the self (Aham) only.

but religious and spiritual mean different.

according to me or in my opinion, a religious person is one who does his duties with an understanding or not understanding whereas a spiritual person is one who tries to yearn for the truth.

how can a religious person say Aham Brahmasmi without any spiritual inclination/understanding or for that matter pray to himself without knowing the Truth.

Spirituality lies in knowing the truth. Once a person realises the truth, then it is worth saying Aham Brahmasmi.

Brahma means Truth and Aham Brahmasmi means I am Truth.

So if you see it is equating God to Truth (yes God is Truth infact), but how did the movie do the justification of explaining this.

I might be wrong in my views or thinking or understanding. please clear my doubts.

[pradheep]

am keen on ur view/take on agoris.
Dear SP,
Agoris are those who are at the pinnacle of spiritual practice. In Indian Spiritual tradition, all rituals are meant to transcend the Ego , to realize the Truth. Ego is like an umbrealla covering the sun. Just moving the umbrella away one has the direct vision of Sun.

Agoris do rituals that fine clean even the traces of Ego. Ego has many attributes. With all negative qualities of Ego , it rules over the human mind. You can imagine it like a moster creature holding tight on its prey with all its long arms. The victim can be set free only when all its holding arms are chopped off. Similarly Ego's hold over the human Mind needs to be set free.

Fear of death, feeling of disgust, holding to identity are the final arms of Ego that should be amputated.
Agoris overcome fear of death by being in close proximity to innumerable dead bodies (even do meditation on it), repulsive feeling of disgust is overcome by eating feces or corpse. They cover their body with ashes to completely overcome their identity.
This is why there is a belief that Agoris are close to overcome samsara cycle (birth and death).

Keeping the Ego transcendence , it is easy to understand the life of Agoris. Otherwise common people will identify them as cult.

I consider my Guru Mata Amritandana mayi to be an living example of compassion. she has the qualities of Agaori. She has overcome the fear of death. There are many incidents in her life to quote this.

In her biography , Swamiji mentions that it her days of intense spiritual practice he became one with Aham, that everything in this universe became One. In that state, she ate many times feces.

Last year in Europe, it seems that she was late for the flight. At the airport swamiji pleaded her to eat something because she was spending more than 20 hrs with devotees.

She agreed to eat, but swamiji could not find a place in the crowded airport to eat. seeing the helplessness of swamiji, Amma grabbed the food and went inside the toilet and ate the food there. When she returned he asked how can she eat food in toilet. Catually she told him, why to make such a fuss about the toilet. All human are carrying feces in the body all the time.

I have seen a dvd of a leprosy person who came to the ashram many years back. His was disgusting plus he had blood and pus oozing obnoxiously smelling wounds. People in the queue who were waiting to see Amma ran away when this leprosy person came near by. amma with compassion hugged him and started licking all his blood and pus oozing wounds in his body. Many people fainted at this scene. This is how a person who have transcended Ego would behave.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Fear of death, feeling of disgust, holding to identity are the final arms of Ego that should be amputated.

Keeping the Ego transcendence , it is easy to understand the life of Agoris. Otherwise common people will identify them as cult.

In her biography , Swamiji mentions that it her days of intense spiritual practice he became one with Aham, that everything in this universe became One. In that state, she ate many times feces.


Ive read that even ramakrishna paramahamsa has done it. It is the feeling of nothing around you but your own self. what more to feel disgusted or elated or feared about!

Thanks for ur expl pradeep. Much appreciatated :bow: :

[pradheep]

So if you see it is equating God to Truth (yes God is Truth infact), but how did the movie do the justification of explaining this.

Dear Leo -simha
You are right, a religious person will not utter Aham brahmasmi, because he or she has the notion of God sitting somewhere in a place called heaven. A spiritual person understands that whatever God that people talk about is the "Self" or Aham , is infact his real nature.

The movie justifies this very point. Looks at the words of Rudra an Agori, who self proclaims to be God (Aham Brahmasmi). The director through a character calls him as "Pancha Paradesi". It has two meaning, one is a nomadic (wanderer). It also means that one who is present in all the pancha bhootas. The director has used Agori, who represent a human being at the pinnacle of Spiritual practice to transcend Ego.

I dont know whether I answered your question, if not we will continue.

[pradheep]

யாதுமாகி நின்றாய் காளி
Dear Sp,
Beautiful quote, where is the source of those lines.

Dear le0 simha
In the movie, one of the beggar has a costume of shiva, through this the director is sarcastic of the "Shiva" of a religious person. But the same director keeps Rudra in high esteem who chants Shivoham. This looks again confusing. It indicates that he is ciritizing the Shiva of a religious person who beleives shiva to be a guy sitting in an ice-cold mountain peak. But a spiritual person looks at Shiva to be the symbol of his "Awareness" - Aham.

Dear SP,
The kali similarly is not a lady drinking blood in hell or heaven. It is the Ego transcended state of a spiritual person.

[Shakthiprabha.]

YEs pradeep. My family deity is kaaLi herself not with ghora roop but peaceful form. Whenever I think of kaaLi, I also think of destruction of evil forces within and outside a person.

Yaadhum aagi nindraay kaaLi song is my very first love for this goddess. Soolamangalam sisters has sung it. I shall try for the link later.

யாதும் ஆகி நின்றாய் காளி
எங்கும் நீ நிறைந்தாய்
தீது நன்மை எல்லாம் நிந்தன்
செய்ல்கள் அன்றி இல்லை.
.
போதும் இங்கு மாந்தர் வாழும்
பொய்மை வாழ்கை எல்லாம்
...

thus would be the lyrics. set on beautiful raag.

[leosimha]

hi pradheep,

thank you very much for the information. I am reading your posts on Ego and how people curtail it. But am shocked to read about the Aghori's way of living. It is shocking and nauseating to hear. They eat feces and corpses. :x How will this help in Ego curtailing or am I trying to understand differently.

I got to understand the point (to a certain extent) relating to "Aham Brahmasmi".

[pradheep]

How will this help in Ego curtailing
Dear leosimha,
There are many faces of Ego, this is what symbolically represented as many faces of demons (asuras). Ego exerts full power through strong likes and dislikes. If you observe all spiritual rituals, each one will be priented to overcome this strong like and dislikes. But these common rituals of observing fast are mild ways. thet are just like shaking a bad tooth.

Agoris rituals are the final stages of pulling out the tooth by severing the roots.

[Shakthiprabha.]

This does not help in ego curtailing.

Only when ego is COMPLETELY cut off an aspirant (who practices such a ritual) reaches that stage. Its the height for some kind of practice, not a step in itself.


Correct me if I am wrong pradeep.

btw, Ive posted the whole lyrics for kaaLi sthothram here

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=12672&start=60


Do check it out :)

[pradheep]

You are right SP
For discussions we tend to use words like steps and stages.

Thanks for the lyrics. Beautiful lines.

[leosimha]

Aghoris

Doctrines Aghori ascetics, while being devotees of the Hindu god Shiva, are monists who adhere to the common Hindu belief in liberation (moksha) from the cycle of reincarnation (samsara). This liberation is a realisation of the self's identity with the absolute. Because of this monistic doctrine, the Aghoris maintain that all opposites are identical and the conventional Hindu distinctions between purity and impurity are ultimately illusory.
The Aghoris are ascetics living in cremation grounds, smearing themselves with the ashes of corpses and eating from a cranial begging bowl. They are attributed with eating corpse flesh, which may be a once in a lifetime ritual act, and meditating seated upon a corpse and thereby gaining control over the corpse's spirit. They have also been accused of practising human sacrifice. The Aghoris claim to perform a secret Tantric ritual involving sex with a lower caste, menstruating woman during which the Aghori becomes Shiva and his partner Shiva's female energy or shakti (see Tantrism).The purpose of embracing pollution in these practices is realisation of non-duality through transcending social taboos and seeing the illusory nature of all conventional categories.
History Although akin to the Kapalika ascetics of medieval Kashmir, with whom there may be a historical connection, the Aghoris trace their origin to Kina Ram, an ascetic who is said to have lived to 150 years during the second half of the eighteenth century. Kina Ram is thought to have been an incarnation of the Hindu god Shiva, as have been each of Kina Ram's successors. Necrophagy, the eating of corpse flesh, is attested to by a sixteenth century Persian source and in nineteenth century British accounts.
Symbols The Aghori ascetic is himself a symbol of the god Shiva. He goes naked or is dressed in the shroud of a corpse, he covers himself in the ashes of the cremation ground, which would be polluting for an orthodox Brahmin, and his, sometimes macabre, ritual actions are symbols of his non-dualistic beliefs. The corpse upon which he meditates is a symbol of his own body and the corpse devouring ritual is a symbol of the transcendence of his lower self and a realisation of the greater, all pervading self .
Adherents No official figures are available. At the end of the nineteenth century there were an estimated two or three hundred Aghori ascetics in Varanasi, though now there are perhaps as few as twenty living in their main centre. The Aghoris do, however, have quite a large lay following and devotees from the Indian middle classes.
Headquarters/
Main Centre The main centre of the Aghoris is Kina Ram's hermitage or ashram in Varanasi. Here Kina Ram is buried in a tomb or samadh which is a centre of pilgrimage for Aghoris and Aghori devotees. Apart from this, any cremation ground would be a holy place for an Aghori ascetic.

Link - http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/hindu/devot/aghoris.html

[pradheep]

Thanks leo for the link