Humour

[P_R]

Shakespeare wanted his cloak checked to make sure it didn't need mending. It was perfect and needed no mending, the tailor remarked: "No holes bard !"

[P_R]

Add another question deepak.
1. Calling names, dirty bit*ching, belittling oneself(or others) are also considered humour and widely enjoyed by many.

There is a belief, that, these kind of humour or its enjoyment refect actually the dirty face of helplessness of one's ownself towards another.

Whats ur take on this?

[P_R]

We laugh at so many things but check ourselves when it comes to certain things. Morbid things like death,physical suffering. Natural shortcomings like physical shortcomings and perceived shortcomings like shortness, baldness,obesity etc. Innuendoes and insults. Some find sexual humour offensive. Most find scatological humour offensive. Some find puns juvenile.

Oscar Wilde and Bernard Shaw's repartees are stuff of legend. Vitriolic insults that would take a lifetime for the recveiver to come out of. Sample: someone at a party was namedropping like crazy and seemed to know every single person of the high and mity. Wilde remarked: "he seems to have been invited to every manor - once".

That generates in us a well deserved smile. We have no reluctance yielding to that wit. While indeed it is much more painful to the recepient than the slipping over the banana peel - which we refuse to laugh at because it is indecent to do so.

So what actually is the basis of our decency ? Is it really the notion that 'someone's suffering cannot be source of our humour' ? Seems to be that the understanding of 'suffering' seems to be evolutionary. In the sense that, when swathed in the artifices of civility like 'wordplay', clever conversation we are relatively less reluctant to laugh at suffering.

This plunges me into introspection. The question "why we laugh" can never be satisfactorily answered. It is right up there with "what is the nature of brahman" kind of questions

But it does not take much to realize that most of our laughter does indeed come from someone's suffering. Either the butt of the joke is not within earshot, or has a sense of humour to brush it off. So now, it is getting complicated, it has become a function of the personality of the recepient of the jibe. Just pause and think of it. This is the case with verbal/intellectual humour in private conversation. When I make light of a serious concept, if my boss takes the belittling of his brainchild seriously he is indeed suffering (and I will be suffering soon !).

So what a summary classification of decent v indecent/ innocent v insulting actually is, is a split generated by our civilized mind that is insuficiently introspective. So when we think we are being sensitive and refusing to laugh at certain suffering, we are actually being insensitive because we laugh at certain other suffering without realizing that it is indeed suffering that we are laughing at.

My short story: Kadumnagai, was essentially geared towards this.

I know we shall be in different world on this. And of course each to his/her choice of humour and all that. Just wanted to state that the classification are driven by our perceptions and not hard cold physical classifications that exist in reality.

Let me sign off with a 'racial insult' attributed to no less than Mahatma Gandhi. When he was in London at a fruitless second round table conference...

Reporters: What is your opinion about civilization in the west ?
Gandhi: I think it is a good idea

I haven't attempted to directly answer your specific question. Deepauk will do a better job of that

[sarna_blr]

edhukkaaga indha thread :? :roll:

[P_R]

Add another question deepak.
1. Calling names, dirty bit*ching, belittling oneself(or others) are also considered humour and widely enjoyed by many.

There is a belief, that, these kind of humour or its enjoyment refect actually the dirty face of helplessness of one's ownself towards another.

Whats ur take on this?
SP, Glad the B'bay Jayashri link was able to provide a convincing answer even though I didn't.
Let me try not to hide behind verbal calisthenics (as you suggested I might try to :) ).
Clarification: I am not sure I completely understand "the dirty face of helplessness of one's ownself towards another". But let me train my answer in the general direction of where I believe you are coming from.

In the united states the use of the "N" word (a racial epithet that denotes a person of african-american descent) is a controversial issue, especially with regard to who uses it and when. But the only people who are given unlimited leeway in the usage of the word,as long as it is part of their act (I hasten to add this in light of what happened with one Michael Richards, famously known for playing Kramer in Seinfeld), are comedians. I enjoy this aspect of the culture for 2 reasons:
1. It releases the performance art of comedy from the shackles of socially sanctioned decency.
2. It reduces the negative association/stigma associated with the word as well as the meaning by creating a mental re-association with something positive.
IMO the extraordinary efforts taken by those interested in not offending the feelings of others, are an inherent result of a perceived sense of superiority. And the offense taken by targets is a manifestation of their internal insecurity. And I guarantee I speak from personal experience when I say the previous sentence. As thambi equanimus might say, "nilA enna AgasaththulayA irukku? nilA manasula irukku" :) .

[P_R]

I just dont know how u guys react to the foll comedy.

I mean talkin on looks or branding someone as non-intelligent , even calling him names is fine....(Tolerable enough though sometimes some may seethe internally ) Raunch / Saddism as themes are sometimes too distasteful. Fine lets leave that out too.


What I cannot understand is, how do we rate,
kicking and other such physical abuse as comedy?

poda naaye and some x kicks y. (Do we need to grin ?)
pongappa

X punches y and y bleeds. Should we smile ? (atleast some of us cant )

This is where I get a feeling, things which we cant do, our inner self is happy when we see someone else doing it to another.
Typical satisfaction of "albert pinto ko gussa kyon aata hai" types.

I remember some vivek and sundar c scene in some nameless movie where he pokes vivek's hand with a spanner or sharper instrument and asks

"valikutha"

vivek wanna sport a brave man and tries to swallow his pain

"illaiye" (and he is bleeding! )

I mean I feel many people FLINCH at such comedies
Or may be few like me are weird [


anyway, this is not a question, or counter argument, or I aint any authority to talk on which is apt comedy. I just wanted to share my stand. So please dont get me wrong.

[P_R]

edhukkaaga indha thread :? :roll: sirippai paththi sindhanaigaL pagirndhukoLLa

[sarna_blr]

edhukkaaga indha thread :? :roll: sirippai paththi sindhanaigaL pagirndhukoLLa

:ty: for the kind information :twisted:

[pavalamani pragasam]

sirippil eththanai vagai!

siriththu vaaza vENdum piRar sirikka vaaznthidaathE!

[sarna_blr]

PR, Karagaattakaaran, SingaravElan, Ullaththai allithaa , Nadigan , Mannan , few prabhu's movie with GM makes me :rotfl: :rotfl: but excluding few scenes of GM :twisted: like thakkaali pazhaththula thaar ooththuna maadhiri irukku :evil: ( I remember Senthil's reply to GM , annE romba sevappudaa :lol: )

SP akka, indha jokes ellaam paaththirukkamaattaanganu nenakkurEn :)

actually few months back, in GM thread ( 1st thread ) , u and Viv's used to post some laughable jokes ( atleast for me ) in GM thread :clap: I was actively participating in GM thread ( means I was a regular visitor those days )

but ippa ellaam, GM thummuna kooda adhu periya joke'nu solli :rotfl: pOduradhu konjam Over'aa irukku :sigh2:

[sarna_blr]

siriththu vaaza vENdum piRar sirikka vaaznthidaathE!

:twisted: idhennanga aniyaayamaa irukku :x andha kaalaththu Chandhrababu'la irundhu, innikku irukkura VadivElu varaikkum, pirar sirikka dhaan vaazhndhuttirukkaanga :P

pirar sirichchaadhaanga avangalukku vaazhkkayE 8-)

[sarna_blr]

PR, Karagaattakaaran, SingaravElan, Ullaththai allithaa , Nadigan , Mannan , few prabhu's movie with GM makes me :rotfl: :rotfl: but excluding few scenes of GM :twisted: like thakkaali pazhaththula thaar ooththuna maadhiri irukku :evil: ( I remember Senthil's reply to GM , annE romba sevappudaa :lol: )

SP akka, indha jokes ellaam paaththirukkamaattaanganu nenakkurEn :)

actually few months back, in GM thread ( 1st thread ) , u and Viv's used to post some laughable jokes ( atleast for me ) in GM thread :clap: I was actively participating in GM thread ( means I was a regular visitor those days )

but ippa ellaam, GM thummuna kooda adhu periya joke'nu solli :rotfl: pOduradhu konjam Over'aa irukku :sigh2:

PR, my intention of this post is not to hurt anyone, romba naalaa idha enga solradhunu theriyaama kozhambi pOyirundhEn. u gave me this thread :) I am sorry if my post hurts anyone :oops:

[pavalamani pragasam]

ippadiyum oru sirippu:
angE sirippavarkaL sirikkattum athu aaNavas sirippu!

Am recalling N.S.Krishnan's song on sirippu and Chandrababu's
'sirippu varuthu siruppu varuthu
chinna manushan periya manushan
seyala paaththu sirippu varuthu'

[sarna_blr]

ippadiyum oru sirippu:
angE sirippavarkaL sirikkattum athu aaNavas sirippu!


adhEy song'la innum 2 lines

vayiru valikka sirippavargal manidha jaadhi
pirar vayireriya sirippavargal :wink:

[thamizhvaanan]

PR, Karagaattakaaran, SingaravElan, Ullaththai allithaa , Nadigan , Mannan , few prabhu's movie with GM makes me :rotfl: :rotfl:

Glad to know that PR also makes u :rotfl: :D

Somebody said good humor is like a lab frog, you kill it the moment you try to examine it. How true :P

Coming to speak of decency and hurting of sentiments, we can never figure out what it is exactly that makes us laugh. And when we don't understand something well enough, how can we categorize it as good or bad. As PR said, ultimately somebody/practice/entity has to be a the butt of the joke/wit.

A person who insults while trying to be humorous need not be a cruel person, conversely a guy practising decency in speech need not be a kind character.

Does it mean that anything is allowed? If the subject can't tolerate the offense or doesn't like being targetted, one should stop. If he doesn't, it doesn't speak of poor humor rather poor character.

Response to humor is not something we to teach or learn. It comes naturally and hence it differs from person to person. One should stick to what works for them, if it is not funny... it is not funny... leave it. We don't have to pass judgements on people who laugh at it. It is their kind of jokes. Thats it.

[Shakthiprabha.]

PR :)

tv :)

sarna,


SP akka, indha jokes ellaam paaththirukkamaattaanganu nenakkurEn

Hasty conclusion. :)

[sarna_blr]

PR, Karagaattakaaran, SingaravElan, Ullaththai allithaa , Nadigan , Mannan , few prabhu's movie with GM makes me :rotfl: :rotfl:

Glad to know that PR also makes u :rotfl: :D
.

sokku :lol2:

appuram :lol2:

[Wibha]

It just puzzles me how one can laugh when a person hits someone else :? They call it comedy but I do not find humor in it.

[sarna_blr]

Response to humor is not something we to teach or learn. It comes naturally and hence it differs from person to person. One should stick to what works for them, if it is not funny... it is not funny... leave it. We don't have to pass judgements on people who laugh at it. It is their kind of jokes. Thats it.



edhukkaaga indha thread :? :roll: sirippai paththi sindhanaigaL pagirndhukoLLa

[P_R]

It just puzzles me how one can laugh when a person hits someone else :? They call it comedy but I do not find humor in it.


Tom and Jerry pAthurukkeengaLA ?

[Wibha]

It just puzzles me how one can laugh when a person hits someone else :? They call it comedy but I do not find humor in it.


Tom and Jerry pAthurukkeengaLA ?

In nature cats chase rats and there's no verbal abuse.
One guy calls the other one naaye, blah blah blah. The other guy tries to *ACT* innocent and is finally attacked. I just don't get it :(

[P_R]

In nature cats chase rats and there's no verbal abuse.
One guy calls the other one naaye, blah blah blah. The other guy tries to *ACT* innocent and is finally attacked. I just don't get it :(

Ok so if I understand right, what you are saying is, it is unnatural for people to be offensive to each other. Humans are by nature favourably disposed towards each other. And the fact that it is contrived for the sake of humour doesn't sit well with you. Right ?

Forget Tom and Jerry. Consider Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd. Surely there can be nothing 'natural' about a wisecracking talking rabbit making life miserable for lisping simpleton. Do you find Bugs and Elmer unfunny ?

I am ignoring the "there is no verbal abuse part" because I guess, physical abuse is equally bad if not worse in your books. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Tom and jerry do not have 6th sense, its guided by impulse for survival. Cat's food is rat.
So chasing and hitting is UNAVOIDABLE.

Aren't we evolved pr?

I would like to stick to physical abuse alone atleast now.

[equanimus]

I would like to stick to physical abuse alone atleast now.
appuRam enna pirachchanai?

[P_R]

Tom and jerry do not have 6th sense, its guided by impulse for survival. Cat's food is rat.
So chasing and hitting is UNAVOIDABLE.

I would like to stick to physical abuse alone atleast now.
This is interesting. You are also making much of tom and jerry being cat and a rat. They are anything but. You can consider the Bugs-Elmer situ. in this regard.


Aren't we evolved pr? I assume this is a rhetorical question so I am relieved of having to answer this :P

[P_R]

I would like to stick to physical abuse alone atleast now.
appuRam enna pirachchanai? :lol:

[Shakthiprabha.]

I would like to stick to physical abuse alone atleast now.
appuRam enna pirachchanai?

:lol2:

[complicateur]

This is interesting. You are also making much of tom and jerry being cat and a rat. They are anything but. You can consider the Bugs-Elmer situ. in this regard.
:exactly: IthellAm oruththar ALavanthAn-la sollAma sollirukkAru.

[thilak4life]

After many thousand years of Civilization (after million years of evolving), there is so much greed, hatred, and prejudice. Who better than Gounder to make some evocative oppressor acts, sill prevalent in this world. And what genius to pass them off as humour. :clap:

[thilak4life]

No Sarcasm intended of course...

[Shakthiprabha.]

Aren't we evolved pr? I assume this is a rhetorical question so I am relieved of having to answer this :P

:)

and ur tom n jerry expl...well :?

convincing! :|


I guess, I dont have complaints about people enjoying such stuffs. :thumbsup: (and that includes my husband :P )

Its just I aint equipped enough to enjoy it :D :bow:

I do enjoy few(lot) comedies of such types at lighter shades though. IF its too thick I get choked.

[Shakthiprabha.]

dign

Reg Kaundamani, I have found him extremely poor in emoting, which adds to the non enjoyment from my side, (he is good at dialogue delivery, with right modlution) and emoting is a big plus point for vadivelu. Vadivelu, vivek types are good with expressions.


//dign

[thilak4life]

dign

Reg Kaundamani, I have found him extremely poor in emoting, which adds to the non enjoyment from my side, (he is good at dialogue delivery, with right modlution) which is a big plus point for vadivelu. Vadivelu, vivek types are good with expressions.


//dign

SP, I said evocative. :)

[Wibha]

In nature cats chase rats and there's no verbal abuse.
One guy calls the other one naaye, blah blah blah. The other guy tries to *ACT* innocent and is finally attacked. I just don't get it :(

Ok so if I understand right, what you are saying is, it is unnatural for people to be offensive to each other. Humans are by nature favourably disposed towards each other. And the fact that it is contrived for the sake of humour doesn't sit well with you. Right ?

people do offend each other. But usually it's only when someone's mad at each other. In a movie they show it as COMEDY and I personally feel that the name calling has increased after seeing such comedies.


Forget Tom and Jerry. Consider Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd. Surely there can be nothing 'natural' about a wisecracking talking rabbit making life miserable for lisping simpleton. Do you find Bugs and Elmer unfunny ?

I am ignoring the "there is no verbal abuse part" because I guess, physical abuse is equally bad if not worse in your books. Correct me if I am wrong.


I'm not a fan of Bugs Bunny.. and I do not watch Elmer Fudd. I personally hate the verbal and physical abuse. Even verbal is tolerable to SOME extent. The physical abuse is just ridiculous.

[P_R]

Sp & Wibha, I completely get what you are saying.

SP, recall the mainA joke (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1644555#1644555)? (You knew this was coming). It was morbid. How can one be heartless and laugh at the misery. What deep sorrow that the kid is more bothered by the loss of his bord than... How can a simple stupid rhyming wordplay be sufficient reason to make a joke like that.

I recalled the old joke because of the wordplay joke that preceded it. It could be incredibly offensive to a light-skinned Catholic. Can't it ?

I sincerely believe that most times when we think a particular piece of joke is devoid of misery, usually it is our limited vision that is to blame.

That is why, before resigning to meat-poison etc. I just want us to consider if our reservations are as rational as we like to believe they are.

[thilak4life]

Summava sonnanga, Comedy is tragedy plus time

[Shakthiprabha.]

SP, recall the mainA joke (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1644555#1644555)? (You knew this was coming).

oh I knew it :rotfl2: just was wondering when it would come up :D

Infact when I read the joke, I became hypocrite for a minute not to post my enjoyment despite me grinning here for the joke :D :oops:



I recalled the old joke because of the wordplay joke that preceded it. It could be incredibly offensive to a light-skinned Catholic. Can't it ?

I sincerely believe that most times when we think a particular piece of joke is devoid of misery, usually it is our limited vision that is to blame.

No denying :) other side of coins. Completely agree. This applies to WIT too, most enjoyed by few of us, who dont appreciate sarcasm well.

We just wanna say sometimes coins are perfectly round, that except for very few, most are offended.

Again percentage counts, stronger it gets, stronger the action, wider the range, reactions get sharper thats all.

[equanimus]

In my books, Monty Python is god level. So, nothing would be better than pointing towards some scenes from their films or comedy show series in response to any kind of issue people raise about a comedy scene being touchy or bawdy or obscene or what have you. They've done it all.

So for starters, watch this clip (http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs) from the outrageously, monstrously funny 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail'. (In my humble opinion, you've not lived your comedic life until you've seen this film.)

[equanimus]

And how about this (http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno)? (A much, much funnier scene, sure to have anyone roll on the floor laughing.)

I'm of course choosing scenes that involve explicit macabre violence. I'll follow it up with a collection of unimaginably funny scenes involving delicious verbal insults.

[P_R]

Equanimus, did you know Life of Brian was found offensive by Christian conservatives. There is a youtube video of the argument that happened in BBC where someone from the archdiocese and Marshall McLuhan lash out at Monty Python for making fun of Sermon on the Mount ("Blessed are the cheesemakers" :lol:) and John Cleese had to patiently defend with "people laughed....that's all we wanted"

[thilak4life]

In my books, Monty Python is god level. So, nothing would be better than pointing towards some scenes from their films or comedy show series in response to any kind of issue people raise about a comedy scene being touchy or bawdy or obscene or what have you. They've done it all.

:exactly:

[sarna_blr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

The terms "comedy" and "satire" became synonymous after Aristotle's Poetics was translated into Arabic in the medieval Islamic world, where it was elaborated upon by Arabic writers and Islamic philosophers, such as Abu Bischr, his pupil Al-Farabi, Avicenna, and Averroes.

wikipedia says something like comedy = satire :sigh2: , many hubbers hear are also trying to convey the same :oops:



It just puzzles me how one can laugh when a person hits someone else :? They call it comedy but I do not find humor in it.


Tom and Jerry pAthurukkeengaLA ?

X - oruththana adikkuradhu thappaa ?
y - kayya vetturadhukku, adikkuradhu thappu illa :)
X - appa kayya vetturadhu thappunriyaa ?
Y - kola panradhukku kayya vetturadhu thappilla :)
X - kola panradhu thappunriyaa ?
Y - Aghories maadhiri dead body'ya saappiduradhukku, kola pandradhu thappilla :)
X - dead body'ya saappiduradhu thappunriyaa ?
Y - ---------- ( censored )


ippadi sollikkittE pOgalaam :sigh2:

[directhit]

SP, recall the mainA joke (http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1644555#1644555)? (You knew this was coming). :lol:

[Sourav]

Response to humor is not something we to teach or learn. It comes naturally and hence it differs from person to person. One should stick to what works for them, if it is not funny... it is not funny... leave it. We don't have to pass judgements on people who laugh at it. It is their kind of jokes. Thats it. :thumbsup:

[Sourav]

Y - ---------- ( censored )
Intha post Censor board-ku poyitu vanthucha? :lol:

[Vivasaayi]

http://tvpravi.blogspot.com/2009/02/blog-post_2406.html