can anyone tell me the meaning of vanan

[sindhu]

can anyone tell me the meaning of vanan
that word is mostly associated with tamilvanan,kalaivanan

is this word is anyway related to moon?
can anyone help me in htis?

Thanx in advance.

[Sudhaama]

Hi, ALL FRIENDS,

Such Questions can be raised under the .....

.... Relevant Thread.... "THINAMUM ORU VAARTHAI"

One more separate Thread is NOT NECESSARY .... which will lead to lose the purpose of ONE COMPOSITE Thread of ONE TOPIC.

Such separate Thread-Topics will go out of attention later if not DOCUMENTED on the already existing COMMON-HEADING.

Vaanhan == Arasan (King)

Vaanhi = Arasi (Queen)

Kalai-Vaanhi = Kalai- Arasi (Saraswathi)

Thamiz- Vaanhan = Thamizh-Arasan

Paa-Vaanhar = Kavi-Arasan ; King of Poetry / Poets (indirectly).

During Chera-Chooazha- Pandiya Rulers days, this word was used as a TITLE conferred on the high Scholars.....in different fields.

Similar to.... another such.... Tamil- Title- word....

... "MUDHALI" meaning as... SCHOLAR / TOPPER ( Equal to Ph.D)

This Title- word "VAANHAN" has no relation with the Moon.

[RR]

mudhali as in 'mudhaliyaar'? :)

[Sudhaama]

Mr.RR"

// mudhali as in 'mudhaliyaar'? //

Yes... The TTLE-WORD.... "MUDHALI" conferred as THE HIGHEST HONOUR ( Equal to Ph.D) on the Experts in the different Fields, each one varying for the Individuals on Sculpture, Music, Art, Linguistics etc..

It was respectfully used by the Public as MUDHALI-YAAR ....

... Similar to calling the Arasi (Queen) as ARASI-YAAR

... PILHLHAI (Son) AS PILHLHAI-YAAR ... etc.

The Fore-fathers of all the present generation people called "Mudhaliyaars" were the Great Scholars in some field... different in its own.

[RR]

Thanks very much for the info.

By the way, pls just call me RR.

[viggop]

Mani M Manivannan used to post in this hub long time back.He had written in a thread called "History of Mudhaliaars" that they were tax collectors during Chola regime.Lot of people from different castes became Mudhaliaars(including brahmins) and their primary job was collecting tax from other people.

Please note that I am not a mudhaliar and sorry in advance if I have offended anyone.


There is one song by Appar which starts as "vaananai" in praise of Lord Shiva.

[Sudhaama]

This Question I had already answered under "Thinamum oru Vaarthai"..... thread., which I re-producing herebelow...

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Hi, ALL FRIENDS,

Such Questions can be raised under the .....

.... Relevant Thread.... "THINAMUM ORU VAARTHAI"

One more separate Thread is NOT NECESSARY .... which will lead to lose the purpose of ONE COMPOSITE Thread of ONE TOPIC.

Such separate Thread-Topics will go out of attention later if not DOCUMENTED on the already existing COMMON-HEADING.

Vaanhan == Arasan (King)

Vaanhi = Arasi (Queen)

Kalai-Vaanhi = Kalai- Arasi (Saraswathi)

Thamiz- Vaanhan = Thamizh-Arasan

Paa-Vaanhar = Kavi-Arasan ; King of Poetry / Poets (indirectly).

During Chera-Chooazha- Pandiya Rulers days, this word was used as a TITLE conferred on the high Scholars.....in different fields.

Similar to.... another such.... Tamil- Title- word....

... "MUDHALI" meaning as... SCHOLAR / TOPPER ( Equal to Ph.D)

This Title- word "VAANHAN" has no relation with the Moon.

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There are adequate Historical proofs to believe that the Word "MUDHALI"...

... meaning the The First-Person / Topper / Best One / Great Scholar / Authentic Expert ... etc.

... Just a Pure Tamil-Title during the Tamilians Royal Era of Chera, Sozha Pandiya Kingdoms.

... Similar to... Ph.D.... M.Phil... Padma-Bhushan, Padma-Shree etc. of the Present days..

... as well as ... Rao-Bahadur,.... Right-Honourable.... etc of the British days.

There were Mudhalis hailing from all Castes and Communities including Brahmins of those days...holding this Title of Honour in one or the Professional-Fields of Astrology, Medicines, Iconography, Linguistics and the like.

There is profuse mention of this word ... that Ramanuja- acharya consulted with his Mudhalis whenever he was confronted with embarassing situations.... meaning this Word as the Expert-Advisors well-knowledged in Vedhic-Sasthras and Dharmas... Such Experts in those dfays... were invariably Brhmins.

So I reiterate that this Title-word Mudhali was addressed as Mudhaliyaar out of respect ...which became a Community subsequently.

And they maintained their identity as a matter of Prestige similar to One King becomes a Sambandhi of another King only and Not less...

... As if one Padma-shree holder gives his Daughter to another Padma-shree Holder's Son... ensuring both the Sambandhis are of equal Social-status.

Similarly the Vaanhan ... meaning... KING... was just a Title of Honour... but lower to Mudhali

So to say, the Educational Qualification... "MS" can be equated with VAANHAN...

... and Ph.D. can be equated with MUDHALI.....

... "Mathi-Vaanhan"... means Lod-Siva... the King having the Moon on his Head.

... Kalai-Vaanhi... means Saraswathi... Queen of Arts.

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Good imagination thiru sudhama. Mudaliyar did not specify scholar title.

The people who did agriculture were considered as people of high rank because Agriculture job was considered as high ranking job in olden days. See thirukkural ' Sulandrum air pinathu ulagam'-means all jobs are centred through agriculture.

The caste vellala was formed like this. vellam+all-means overrule water. (see 'vellalar nagarigam' by maraimalai adigal).

The same vellalar are placed in upper caste position when sanskritisation was going on in tamilnadu.

They had surname as 'pillai'. The aim of other castes who performed other jobs was to transform into agriculturist. All the other caste people, after getting enough savings from their jobs, tried to acquire some land for agriculture and had surname as pillai. That is why in all castes including the people who are classified as scheduled class now had 'pillai' as surnames.

In brahminical hierchy , vellalars are placed first as equally as brahmins. That is why they had the surname with 'mudali / mudaliyar'(means first in brahminical system).
All 'Atheenams' head in temples of tamilnadu are vellalar caste people.

All vellalars of pillai surname had marriage alliance with vellalars of surname mudaliyar. This is true now also.

Note mudaliyar is surname not main caste. There is no mudaliyar caste in tamilnadu but called like that because their surname is mudaliyar. Castewise they are vellalars only.

Compare 'Kongu vellalars' having surname only goundar.

The other varieties of mudaliyar surname is due to their previous job before they transformed into agriculturists.

This shows the perception of people of yesteryears to become higher rank caste by adapting agriculture.

'Moily' a kananada surname is having the same meaning.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:1e73629061]"F.S.Gandhi vandayar"

Many Thanks for your interesting posting of rich information....

// Good imagination thiru sudhama. Mudaliyar did not specify scholar title.//

Dear Mr. Gandhi vandayar...You mean MY IMAGINATION?... Ha Ha..... For your information... out of about 113 Threads of this Forum (as on To-day) ,.... I am participating... on various Topics... only about 4 Threads of Tamil-Poems including Paazhai Kural and Tamil- Pudhirhalh...... where I post my compositions of Tamil-Poems... I apply my imagination... as is naturally desired of.

At all other Threads including this one ... my informations posted are ENTIRELY... based on my knowledge gained during the past about 60 years...by reading thousands of Rich Knowledgeable Books .... mostly from Libraries... as also from several Seminars... and from various Experts personal friends and Relatives... .

So to say... I am only a Parrot. / Tape- recordeer... just pouring out the Stored Stuff.

Perhaps... if your view is different from others ... you will call the others as Imaginary.... Why Not the other way?

//The people who did agriculture were considered as people of high rank because Agriculture job was considered as high ranking job in olden days. See thirukkural ' Sulandrum air pinathu ulagam'-means all jobs are centred through agriculture.//

Yes.... that was the Indian way of Life in general... especially the Tamilians.... Even the Festivals of Tamilians... are mostly inter-related with Agriculture and its Seasons relevance.

That is why... in the International arena... even now... Idia is named as the Agricultural- country.

//The caste vellala was formed like this. vellam+all-means overrule water. (see 'vellalar nagarigam' by maraimalai adigal)//

Vaelhaanhmai (§ÅÇ¡ñ¨Á) in Tamil means Agriculture... So those who are involved in Agriculture are called as Vaelhaalhar (§ÅÇ¡Ç÷)
... which is the name of Occupation... similar to Thachchar, Koththanaar and the like.. names became the Caste names.

I am unable to understand... how that Tamil-Scholar Maraimalai-Adigal... relates "Vaelhaalhar" with "Velhlham" ... more than the Root-word "Vaelhaanhmai"

// In brahminical hierchy , vellalars are placed first as equally as brahmins//

In fact... Vaelhaalhar denotes the persons involved in Agriculture... and most of them being Brahmins .. in the Kings days... since the Lands were granted to Brahmins as Remuneration for their Vedic-services and the like... (towards the welfare of the common people)....

We can see in the Ancient days Epigraphics... by Copper-plates, and Temple Stone inscriptions... as also the Legal- Documents of several so called Forward-castes including Brahmin, Mudaliar, Pillai and Naicker as well...

.. such as.... " I the Sankara Iyer performing Vaelhaalah thozhil"...

.//..... 'mudali / mudaliyar'(means first in brahminical system). //

What do you mean by Brahminical-System ?

There have been so called Mudhalis eemployed by Saiva mataadhipathis as well as Vaishnava Acharyas as Epert-Advisors.

For example... in the Life-History of Ramanujacharya, we find the abundant mention of the word... MUDHALI.. meaning the Scholars / Experts in different fields

During the Annual functions... such of thoseScholars... in various Fields.. like Silpis engaged in Sculpture and Temple-construction, Artist- Painters, Vedic-Homa-Agama Scholars, Literature-Scholars and the like have been duly honoured and rewarded for each achievement they made during the year... Those people belonnged to different Castes irrespective of Brahmins or other castes.

And Ramanujacharya had always with him some Mudhalis ... the Experts in Vedic philosophy and Tamil-Literature...for discussions and references
It has been so recorded that the Acharya frequently referred with the "MUDHALIS"... which means the "TOPPER" or the Scholar.

// Note mudaliyar is surname not main caste. There is no mudaliyar caste in tamilnadu but called like that because their surname is mudaliyar. Castewise they are vellalars only.//

Yes... Partly that is my point... but I differ to say that Mudhalis were from all the castes... being the Topper in various Fields unconnected to each other.

A Linguistic-Scholar was called as Pandithar.. And similar Scholars / Experts in other Fields of Goldsmithy, Sculpture, Artistic-painting, Construction-Architect... were HONOURED as Mudhali...

I CONFIRM and ..assert once again.... Not my Imagination... but the FACT

//The other varieties of mudaliyar surname is due to their previous job before they transformed into agriculturists. This shows the perception of people of yesteryears to become higher rank caste by adapting agriculture.//

One of the Reasons for the people's strict maintenance of castes was... STATUS.

One Sanskrit Pandithar wants to become a Sambandhi of a Tamil- Pandit... and enters into the Marriage-alliance for their Son and Daughter...

Similarly... a Topper so honoured for a new Invention of a Yarn .. gets his Daughter married to the Son of another Topper so honoured by the King.. for his new Discovery in the field Astronomy and so on..

... irrespective of Castes... but maintenance of equal Status...

... which HEIRARCHY became the Caste... with honour as Mudhali+yaar.

like Arasiyaar, Valhlhalaar, Aiyanaar, Saamiyaar .. etc. to mean RESPECT.
[/tscii:1e73629061]

[Sudhaama]

Dear F.S. Gandhi Vandayar,

I have opened another Thread to-day....named...

"Tamil NAMES, CASTES & TITLES: Meaning" ...

Please continue your discussions in reply to mine in it...

wherein ... I have copied and pasted all the Postings including yours ... n that Thread... with the Title...

"Can anybody tell me the meaning of Vanan?"

... which was a closed topic... and irrelevant to be continued with the same Title.

So I am arranging to close that Topic- Thread on "Vanan" only..

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Administrators,

Please arrange to close and DELETE the Temporary thread ... as detailed above....

The discussions will continue in the new Thread opened with a broader scope.

Sudhaama.