COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY - PART2

[dochu]

Maybe my point is getting ignored.

I never said IR is justified in copying. Without talent, nobody would have scored that many number and lasted for 3 decades. Maybe his songs are insipid to you, but rest of the mass didn't feel that way and hence he ruled the industry. And logically (in comparison with public) it would be incorrect to call him mediocre because your taste didn't suit.

[NOV]

Now repeat after me.... Also for AR Rahman ....
Without talent, nobody would have scored that many number and lasted for 3 decades. Maybe his songs are insipid to you, but rest of the mass didn't feel that way and hence he ruled the industry.


And logically (in comparison with public) it would be incorrect to call him mediocre because your taste didn't suit.His music was fine for the public in the 80s. That's all. Also, he didn't allow any competition, thus we wouldn't know any better.
A musician's talent would be measured by longevity.... now try comparing Annakili songs with Roja songs... which is still being listened to and gets radio airplay (public, not your individual taste.)

There is a King of Kings (shamelessly titled) concert this weekend... total disaster - they are giving out hundreds of free tickets EVERY day for more than a month. That is a clear indication of public taste.

[NOV]

I never said IR is justified in copying. .


Maybe Sony Music India and other companies restricts marketing such copied work, true MD's will emerge from India. Until then, western artists should receive oscar.

Hope your above statement is for ALL copied works and not just selective MDs.

[dochu]

You are contradicting yourself. At one point you said ' the worst period of TFM was the 80s"

and then you said "His music was fine for the public in the 80s".

I don't live in India, but on my visits, I see that one has to be pompous (no exclusions) to market self. Everybody seems to have some title, and movies that hints their entries into politics. Although wrong, that is the trend here.

I have been listening to several FM stations in chennai, they all have separate segments for old, IR, ARR etc. Even TV music channels (isai aruvi from 7 AM etc) have IR music. I am not sure why you want to project Roja alone is played in all channels. Doesn't that tell you the longevity of his songs?

Do you have first hand record of IR's dominance attitude over other MD's in past decades? Even if he did, if music didn't appeal to the mass, he wouldn't have scored 950 films. There were still several successful MDs like Deva came out during that time.

[NOV]

Fine for the public, since there was no choice. Is that difficult to understand?

I suppose you are making all your claims with first hand knowledge? :huh:
I lived during that period.
And Deva came only in 1989. There is a world outside IR you know.

[dochu]

According to 80's was worst with IR's domination in music industry with bad lyrics. So now music culture is at its best?. Because people made these choices. Look at the following example with good lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya9VUzW3h6U

Like my previous posts, I pointed a similarity in tamil film songs (which is also pointed by several others in youtube). To slander anyone in particular, I did not extrapolate nor pull things off hand as a know -all person in film industry.

I am glad to remain (and will continue to do so) in older than MSV/MSV/IR times. Whether you want it or not, along with other MD's IR's songs are still played everywhere and they are evergreen and Roja alone doesn't dominate. With that I close my argument.

[NOV]

So now music culture is at its best?. this one song is representative of now? Then nethu rathiri amma must be representative of IR's era. :lol:
It is certainly true that lyrics got better after the 90s. 8-)


I pointed a similarity in tamil film songs. To slander anyone in particular, I did not extrapolate nor pull things off hand as a know -all person in film industry. You didn't stop at that. You said this "Maybe Sony Music India and other companies restricts marketing such copied work, true MD's will emerge from India. Until then, western artists should receive oscar."
Yes, you did extrapolate and that is why I entered this discussion.

But here is the more funny thing... after accusing ARR of copying and suggesting to strip off his Oscar... and then showing a copied work of MSV to put me in my place, suddenly you became more accommodative of copying when I pointed out Ilaiyaraja's copying... "I never said IR is justified in copying." given with qualifiers, the same of which you were not generous enough to afford to others. :lol:


With that I close my argument.Nice talking to you. :)

[ajaybaskar]

The discussion got deviated. Both the songs that were shared belong to the same genre and have nothing more in common. It cant be even called an inspiration, let alone a 'copy'. TFM has witnessed many gentlemen who have set new heights in plagiarism but ARR is not one among them and hence his numero uno status for more than two decades.

Just because few people in YouTube believe it, the sun is not going to rise in the west.

[NOV]

Just realised that the video above - the original KITES which was copied by Ilaiyaraja in akkarai seemai azhaginilE - is not playing.
So here it is in Youtube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbS2KmEecTo

[JamesDap]

TFM has witnessed many gentlemen who have set new heights in plagiarism but ARR is not one among them and hence his numero uno status for more than two decades.



Not so fast. Here's where he got the bassline from Oorvasi Oorvasi. You can console yourself that he didn't nick the tune but nicking the bassline is plagiarism.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1eZan5p8sg

They all have skeletons in their closet, don't worry. And contrary to what dochu claims, it's not like things are squeaky clean in the West either. Nirvana copied the riff of Come As You Are from Killing Joke and settled it quietly out of court, AFAIK. Metallica copied the riff of Enter Sandman from some little known heavy metal band of the 80s. One of the most celebrated rock bands of all time, Led Zeppelin, are also the biggest plagiarists.

And another thing: being bigtime copycats never got in the way of getting to no.1 at different points of time for Nadeem Shravan, Anu Malik or Pritam (or SJ or RDB if you want to go to the golden greats) so there is no connection between no.1 position and originality in India, public doesn't care. When somebody made a youtube video pointing out a Jatin Lalit copy, they insulted him and asked him to go back to listening to gora hairy music. :P

The difference between MSV or IR or ARR and outright copycats like Deva or Sirpi is the former have their own style and at least try to write original compositions while the latter have no compunctions about it. Esp Sirpi, who nicked a entire song (Azhagiya Laila), pallavi charanam ellame from another artist..even made Mano sing in a similar style to that artist!! But let's not even get started about copyright and all, they will mostly all have to pay fines of lesser or greater amounts in that case.

[dochu]

And contrary to what dochu claims, it's not like things are squeaky clean in the West either. Nirvana copied the riff of Come As You Are from Killing Joke and settled it quietly out of court, AFAIK. Metallica copied the riff of Enter Sandman from some little known heavy metal band of the 80s. One of the most celebrated rock bands of all time, Led Zeppelin, are also the biggest plagiarists.

I never said west is clean. Thief is a thief, whether white skinned or whatever color. Nowadays, the trend with current MD's is that copy whatever you like, make crores and move on.



there is no connection between no.1 position and originality in India, public doesn't care.

Exactly, people (i am including all and not targeting anyone in particular) stealing doesn't have any remorse. And public is least bothered about originality, as long as they have good time twisting their hips dancing and having hell of a fun. There is no moral values passed on. There is no accountability for any illegal actions. That is why these behaviors are still proliferating.

An example: GVP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qKfQg5_9iw

similar to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NkNCrM_YZ0

Here is a news article, GVP slandering audio firms for unethical behavior.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/music/gv-prakash-exposes-ripoff-by-audio-firms/article4921818.ece

In what way slandering audio companies is justified? There is no accountability for any action.

this reminds me
"let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery

[JamesDap]

dochu: I was referring to this statement of yours: "I am sure Sony Music India wouldn't market Britney or somebody's song if sounds similar to other in US or other countries. They will try to avoid lawsuits."

That is not necessarily the case, is what I wanted to point out. In fact, or so the story goes, when Killing Joke contacted the producers of Nirvana threatening a lawsuit, they with typical haughty American ignorance, said, "boo yeah, never heard of ya" and dismissed them. It was the band themselves that later sought to mollify Killing Joke and settled the issue. Likewise, Led Zeppelin is still marketed as one of the legends of rock and their reunion concert commanded attention and, erm, ticket prices that even the biggest of the new bands cannot match, so nevermind what all they copied. Might is right applies at the end of the day.

[ajaybaskar]

Bassline of that song has resemblance to Oorvasi but it has been cleverly improvised and the tune is completely different. How can it be called as plagiarism, I don't understand. I still believe if there is one Tamil composer who is nearest to being original, its ARR.

On the 'Numero Uno' thing, being copycats can help you to the top for a brief period of time but when people find out the source, they will ridicule you. Deva,Anu Malik,HJ are the best examples. To be at the top for a long long time, you have to be original and there is no second option.

[JamesDap]

Oh, favourite na vandachu na ellarukkum kanna mudikardhudha easy-a? The bassline is ditto same, the only thing he changed is the rhythmic pattern but the notes are the same. That is not enough to not consider it plagiarised.

And rest assured it is not the only instance. Roja roja is also copied, again, only the rhythmic pattern has been changed but notewise the melody is same except for the very last phrase in the pallavi.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylt6MoxpmDQ

And please, Pritam, in spite of newspaper articles ridiculing his copycat techniques, continues to be very successful commercially, Barfi songs last year were a big hit and even praised as 'superb' by critics. Maybe if they wait a couple of years, we will get to know the source. :P Nobody gives a damn about originality. Music directors lose business when they are unable to keep up with trends and that is the reason Anu or Deva began to fade away.

[JamesDap]

R D Burman was king of Bollywood from mid 60s (Teesri Manzil, 1966) to mid 80s (Sagar, 1985) and made a (posthumous) comeback with 1942 A Love Story. That's two decades, give or take a few months. Don't tell me he never copied. Of course he did! ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PvC1hcaUIE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb3iPP-tHdA


Now I am not saying he was talentless. Certainly he was one of the most influential MDs in Hindi music, but the point is he has indulged in copying. People simply have a soft corner for talented MDs like RDB or SJ or IR or ARR and would like to live in denial but that does not mean, sadly, that they did not copy. I would hesitate to name one MD based only on youtube or itwofs that they have not copied EVER. It is more likely that somebody hasn't cottoned on to the source yet.

[NOV]

People simply have a soft corner for talented MDs like RDB or SJ or IR or ARR and would like to live in denial but that does not mean, sadly, that they did not copy. :thumbsup:

[venkkiram]

பொதுவாகவே இந்தத் திரியினை புறக்கணிக்கும் பழக்கம் உண்டு. என்னடா இங்கே க்ரிம்சன்கிங்கே வந்துட்டார்னு எட்டிப் பார்த்த்தால் அவரும் காபி, டீ என அளந்து கொண்டு இருக்கிறார். இமிடேஷன் மற்றும் உள்வாங்குதல் பற்றி ராஜா தனது கருத்துக்களை ரொம்பத் தெளிவாகவே சில இடங்களில் சொல்லியிருக்கிறார். இதற்கு ரஹ்மான், எம்.எஸ்.வி போன்றவர்கள் என்னென்ன நிலைப்பாடுகள் வைத்திருக்கிறார்கள் என்பதை அவர்கள் வாய்வழியாகவே சொல்லிக் கேள்விப்பட்டால் ஒழிய இதுபோன்ற சந்தேகத்திற்குரிய தளங்களில் பேச எதுவாகவும், புரிந்துகொள்ளவும் உதவியாக இருக்கும்.

Conversation between Poet Muthulingam and Raja:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAckmPHSbxE

Conversation between SPB and Raja:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzABd7oVxYY

[dochu]

Might is right applies at the end of the day.

Exactly!. I second that.

To me, especially in tamil film industry, there don't seem to be any individual no1. It seems to be shared by many HJ, YSR, GVP etc. For no1, shouldn't one dominate in the number of movies / year too?

[JamesDap]

venkirram: I have watched both videos before and I am not sure how exactly they address plagiarism. I think there is a difference between inspiration like Inji Idu-Yeh Dil Deewana and a blatant copy like Akkarai Cheemai from Kites. There are many reasons for plagiarism happening even in the case of a talented MD. It may simply happen unintentionally, the music director retrieving a tune from his memory bank without realising it is actually an old song that he had heard at some point of time. After all, all compositions originate from permutations of the same set of notes. Multiply that over hundreds of thousands of compositions; is it even realistically possible for a composer to remember all compositions in the history of mankind to avoid unintentional plagiarism?

Or he may like the ideas used in the song so much that he may be tempted to use it and hope to get away with it.

Lastly, and this happens often in India, the director may impose his insecurities on the music director. Why do Indians go and watch films copied from Hollywood when said Hollywood films are released here, at least the big cities anyway? The director begins by copying a Hollywood film because that is a surer formula for success from his point of view than taking a 'risk' with an original script. Likewise, he believes a song has a greater chance of being a hit if it is lifted from a hit tune from abroad or old films and he will impose that decision on the music director. I remember in the NEPV audio launch, Selvamani asked for a tune like Mehbooba Mehbooba from Ilayaraja (he was probably not aware that Mehbooba is also a copy :P) and Ilayaraja instead gave him Aatama Therotama, using the idea of a song with a tribal flavour. Maybe another music director wouldn't have bothered and simply ripped off Mehbooba.

[venkkiram]

venkirram: I have watched both videos before and I am not sure how exactly they address plagiarism. I think there is a difference between inspiration like Inji Idu-Yeh Dil Deewana and a blatant copy like Akkarai Cheemai from Kites. There are many reasons for plagiarism happening even in the case of a talented MD. It may simply happen unintentionally, the music director retrieving a tune from his memory bank without realising it is actually an old song that he had heard at some point of time. After all, all compositions originate from permutations of the same set of notes. Multiply that over hundreds of thousands of compositions; is it even realistically possible for a composer to remember all compositions in the history of mankind to avoid unintentional plagiarism?

Or he may like the ideas used in the song so much that he may be tempted to use it and hope to get away with it.

Lastly, and this happens often in India, the director may impose his insecurities on the music director. Why do Indians go and watch films copied from Hollywood when said Hollywood films are released here, at least the big cities anyway? The director begins by copying a Hollywood film because that is a surer formula for success from his point of view than taking a 'risk' with an original script. Likewise, he believes a song has a greater chance of being a hit if it is lifted from a hit tune from abroad or old films and he will impose that decision on the music director. I remember in the NEPV audio launch, Selvamani asked for a tune like Mehbooba Mehbooba from Ilayaraja (he was probably not aware that Mehbooba is also a copy :P) and Ilayaraja instead gave him Aatama Therotama, using the idea of a song with a tribal flavour. Maybe another music director wouldn't have bothered and simply ripped off Mehbooba.

I don't conclude that as a a blatant copy. This is what my guess would have happened at Raja's mind. "Wow! There is a good melody there. Let me try my version of it by using the first 2 lines and give a different color. Let me set my own rhythm and see how it is". These are the lessons to any music composers on how well we can catch a branch and climb up on our sky with our stamp/signature. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MdbmY-djLg

Same approach from IR for "இந்தப் பூவிலும் வாசம் உண்டு". I think his vision/approach is clear. Let us consider ""ஆயிரம் தாமரை மொட்டுக்களே". The pallavi portion is from a folk tune but IR used the same tempo and extended with beautiful BGM and Saranam portions.

எப்படி ஒரு மந்திரவாதி எதையெதையெல்லாம் தொட்டு தனது விருப்பப்படியே பலவித உருவங்களை தோற்றுவித்து சென்று கொண்டிருப்பதைப் போலவே இசை உருவாக்கமும். இசையில் பாண்டித்தியமும், மந்திரத் தன்னும் சரி சமமாய் அமையப் பெற்றிருக்கும் ஒருவராக எம்.எஸ்.வியை, ராஜாவைப் பார்க்கிறேன்.

[JamesDap]

Endha Poovilum is based off a classical composition and there was a time when that sort of thing (ripping off classical music) was viewed lightly. Even John Williams is supposed to have ripped off Gustav Holst's Planets for the Star Wars score, so I will let that pass. But I have to disagree that that also applies to the Simon Dupree case. The pallavi melody is almost a note for note copy, IR has only added some slight embellishment to Indianise it. But he has not metamorphosed it into a new melody as he did for Inji Idu. SPB actually had to explain the points of resemblance between Yeh Dil and Inji Idu, otherwise it is not something very striking...only the structure has been emulated and even there IR has made a lot of changes. But the pallavi flows exactly the same way in Akkarai Cheemai as Kites. Was it unintentional? Could be. At any rate, I don't know why somebody who can score music without first playing a single note on an instrument would do it, maybe he could have taken a little more care. Maybe he was asked to copy, maybe he was under pressure, being that it was early days yet at that time. Whatever it is, I am personally unable to call it anything but a copy so we will have to agree to disagree.

[jaykay78]

Just realised that the video above - the original KITES which was copied by Ilaiyaraja in akkarai seemai azhaginilE - is not playing.
So here it is in Youtube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbS2KmEecTo

Now its clear that every MD have copied which includes IR, so from now on instead of finding the source, or accusing them, shud try open to be open minded n appreciate their good works, I see more hatred for Rahman here, I dont know y IR fans r so insecure when IR is making good music....To appreciate somebody, is it necessary to insult some other...

[ajaybaskar]

LOL. Same thoughts. There for calls for stripping the Oscars off Rahman for the alleged resemblance between Adiye and the other song. But when NoV annan posted KITES link, now it has come down to pressure on the MD. :)

[JamesDap]

LOL. Same thoughts. There for calls for stripping the Oscars off Rahman for the alleged resemblance between Adiye and the other song. But when NoV annan posted KITES link, now it has come down to pressure on the MD. :)

I was only speculating on the reasons for why he might have done that, I never said that is THE reason. Don't put words in my mouth. Furthermore, I have said that irrespective of the reasons, Akkarai Cheemai is a blatant copy or did you omit to read that?

I also never said ARR's Oscar should be stripped and in fact I had also refuted dochu's claims of Adiye being copied, so why don't you talk about that too? Selective, much? Grow some...

I think those reasons which I said apply to all MDs. Unless there is a climate that encourages risk taking in art in this country, copying will continue. People should welcome an artist who takes risks rather than insisting on only feel good timepass all the time. I watched a British film Brick Lane yesterday based on a struggling Bangladeshi family in UK with 9/11 as backdrop. Satish Kaushik acted brilliantly in that film whereas he is usually wasted as a clown/comedian in Hindi films. If there is more originality in Western music - notwithstanding the prominent copycats - that is also because the people there encourage originality. We don't. What is the incentive for making good art in a country where R Rajkumar becomes a big hit.

[ajaybaskar]

Crimson,

My apologies. I mistook your post for someone else's. I did read your counter post to Dochu's claims. What I meant to say was the discussion has been intentionally/unintentionally diverted from stripping Oscars/ARR being disgrace to TFM to plagiarism being part and parcel of creativity.

[JamesDap]

Ok, no probs.

"the discussion has been intentionally/unintentionally diverted from stripping Oscars/ARR being disgrace to TFM to plagiarism being part and parcel of creativity."

Uh, I didn't intend to convey that plagiarism is part and parcel of creativity, aside from instances of unintentional plagiarism (which can't be ALL of a composer's works, then he's just a thief). Rather, that it is part of the cynical way in which the film industry in India works.

[Russellmtp]

Now its clear that every MD have copied which includes IR, so from now on instead of finding the source, or accusing them, shud try open to be open minded n appreciate their good works, I see more hatred for Rahman here, I dont know y IR fans r so insecure when IR is making good music....To appreciate somebody, is it necessary to insult some other...

வாங்க ஜே.கே. இதைதான் நாங்களும் ரொம்ப நாளா கேட்டுக்கிட்டிருக்கோம். அதுவும் இரஹ்மான் ஆஸ்கார் வாங்கினாலும் வாங்கினார், அவருக்கு அதுக்கு தகுதியில்லைன்னு எல்லாரும் ஒத்துக்கனும் அப்படின்னு ஒரு கூட்டம் இங்க ரொம்ப நாளா சுத்திக்கிட்டிருக்கு. அவர் அந்த விருதை வாங்கலைன்னாலும் எங்களுக்கு அவர் இசை எந்த விதத்திலயும் குறைஞ்சதில்லை. ஆனால் சில பேருக்கு அது அவங்க ஆளுக்கு ஏற்பட்ட அவமானம் அப்படின்னு கற்பனை பன்னிக்கிட்டு இப்படியெல்லாம் பேசிகிட்டு திரியிறாங்க. ஆஸ்கார் விருது கிடைக்கலைன்னாலும் இராஜா இசை குறைந்ததில்லை. எந்த விருதும் கிடைக்கலைன்னாலும் எம்.எஸ்.வி இசை சிறந்ததுதான்.

இந்த டொச்சு (என்னா ஒரு நிக் நேம்?) இதை இங்க பேசப் போய் அவருக்கு நம்ம nov திருப்பி கொடுத்ததும் இப்ப திடீர்னு திருவிளையாடல் டயலாக் பேசறார். அப்புறம் நான் என் உலகத்திலயே சந்தோஷமா வாழ்றேன்னு தகவல் கொடுக்கிறார். நல்லா வாழுங்க, யாரும் வேனாம்னு சொல்லலையே. மத்தவங்க உலகத்தில புகுந்து கும்மியடிக்காதீங்கன்னுதான் சொல்றோம். அதுவும் ஒரு பாட்டு திருட்டு பாட்டா இல்லையான்னு தெரியாம யூட்யூப்ல சொன்னாங்கன்னு வந்து இங்க பதிவிட்டா என்ன அர்த்தம். இரஹ்மான திட்டனும். அவ்வளவுதான். யூட்யூப்ல சொல்றது எல்லாம் உண்மையா?

[Russellmtp]

கிரிம்சன் கிங் சொல்வதுபோல் இயக்குனர்களும் தயாரிப்பாளர்களும் ஒரு இசையமைப்பாளரை இன்னொரு ஹிட் பாடலை தழுவி ஒரு பாடலை தர* தூண்டுவது இந்திய திரையுலகில் நடப்பதுதான். "கனவு காணும்" பாடலின் மூலம் ஒரு ஹிந்தி பாட்டென்றும் அதை எடுக்க சொல்லி பாலு மகேந்திரா இளையராஜாவை வற்புறுத்தியதாகவும் எங்கோ படித்த நினைவு. அதை ஏன் பாலு செய்தார் என்று எனக்கு புரியவில்லை. அது ஒன்றும் அவ்வளவு சிறந்த பாடல் இல்லை. அதை விட சிறந்த* பல பாடல்களை இராஜாவால் தர முடியும், தந்தும் இருக்கிறார். ஆனால் அது இயக்குனருக்கு ஒரு சென்டிமென்டாக இருக்கலாம், ஏதோ ஒரு விதத்தில் அவரை பாதித்திருக்கலாம். தனக்கும் இராஜாவிற்கும் இருக்கும் ஆழமான நட்பை பயன்படுத்தி அந்த செயலை செய்ய தூண்டியிருக்கலாம். ஆனால் இதை நியாயப்படுத்த முடியாது. எல்லா சிறந்த இசையமைப்பாளர்களும் ஏதோ ஒரு சந்தர்ப்பத்தில் இதை செய்திருக்கிறார்கள். என்னை பொறுத்தவரை இரஹ்மானோ இராஜாவோ அவர்களின் தழுவப்பட்டதாக கூறப்படும் பாடல்கள் என்னை பெரிதாக ஈர்த்ததே இல்லை. அவர்களின் சிறந்த படைப்புகள் அனைத்தும் அவர்களுடையதே. இதை தேவாவுக்கோ, சிற்பிக்கோ, அனு மாலிக்கிற்கோ, அல்லது ப்ரீத்தம்மிற்கோ சொல்ல முடியாது.

[ajaybaskar]

இதை விட யாரும் தெளிவாக சொல்ல முடியாது, தோழர். என் நன்றியும் வாழ்த்துக்களும். :)

பாலு மகேந்திரா அவர்களிடம் உதவி இயக்குநராக பணிபுரிந்த சுகா (படித்துறை) இந்த 'கனவு காணும்' பாடலின் உருவாக்கம் பற்றி தன் 'மூங்கில் மூச்சில்' சொல்லியிருந்தார். ராஜா,பாலு இருவரும் மன்னா டேயின் ரசிகர்கள். ஒரு மாலைப்பொழுதில் மன்னாவின் Kasme Vaadeவை கேட்கும்போது பாலு அந்தப் பாடலை தன் அடுத்த படத்தில் பயன்படுத்த முடியுமா என்று ராஜாவை கேட்டதாகவும், அதற்கு ராஜா ஒப்புக் கொண்டதாகவும் எழுதியிருந்தார். இது அந்தப் பாடலின் இசையமைப்பாளர்களான கல்யாண்ஜி-ஆனந்த்ஜி ஒப்புதலோடு நடந்ததாக சொல்வார்கள்.

இதே கல்யாண்ஜி-ஆனந்த்ஜி ராஜாவின் 'இளைய நிலா'வை தங்கள் படத்தில் பயன்படுத்தியது வேறு விஷயம். Give and take policy. :)

[dochu]

@thozhar,
Please restrict discussions to appropriate matter and not involve in personal attacks. You seemed to be quite bothered more about my username, thiruvilaiyadal quote, etc - which is very much irrelevant in the scope of tfmpage.com.

I am neutral and will continue to be neutral. Like others, I acknowledge IR too has copied even though I am biased with his music and others. What I pointed is that the trend of getting many things from west is alarmingly increasing compared to 2-3 decades ago.

Like me, you and few others are also biased and tend to 'ignore' posts/facts because it is irrefutable (aaromale song etc)?.

Hence, let's leave it like that.

[Russellmtp]

அஜய், நன்றி. உங்களுக்கும் வாழ்த்துகள். உங்கள் தகவலுக்கும் நன்றி.

டொச்சு, தனிப்பட்ட முறையில உங்களை நான் விமர்சனம் செய்ய*லை. உங்க புனைப்பெயருக்கு எங்க கல்லூரியில ஒரு அர்த்தம் உண்டு. அதை சொல்லி உங்களை அழைக்கறதுக்கு என்னவோ போல் இருந்தது. அதனால தான் அந்த கமெண்ட். மற்றபடி உங்களை புண்படுத்தும் நோக்கம் இல்லை.

திருவிளையாடல் வசனம் - *இதுல என்ன தப்பு இருக்குன்னு எனக்கு புரியலை. நாம எல்லோருமே ஒவ்வொரு சந்தர்ப்பத்தில வசனம் பேசறதுதானே. நான் உங்க எதிரி இல்லை. நம்ம இரசனை வேறுபடுது. அவ்வளவுதான். இதை நீங்க சாதாரணமா எடுத்துக்கலாமே பாஸ்.

மத்தபடி, நம்ம எல்லோருக்குமே பயாஸ் இருக்கும். அதற்காக மற்றவர்களுக்கு பிடித்தவர்களை நான் எந்த இடத்திலும் இழிவு படுத்தியதில்லை. நான் இரஹ்மான் இரசிகன் தான். ஆனால் எந்த இடத்திலும் நான் இளையராஜாவை மட்டுமல்ல வேறு எந்த இசையமைப்பாளரையும் தவறாக பேசியது கிடையாது. நமக்கு பிடிக்கிறதோ இல்லையோ இராஜாவும் இரஹ்மானும் சாதனையாளர்கள். உங்களுக்கு இரஹ்மான் இசை பிடிக்கவில்லை என்பது யாருக்கும் ஒரு பிரச்சனையே அல்ல. ஆனால் அவர் மீது அபாண்டமான குற்றம் சாட்டும் முன் அதில் உண்மை இருக்கிறதா என்று தெரிந்து கொண்டு பிறகு குற்றம் சுமத்த வேண்டும். இரஹ்மானின் பாடல்களில் சிலவற்றிலும் சில பகுதிகள் தழுவப்பட்டவைதான். அதை நான் எந்த இடத்திலும் மறுக்கவில்லை. எனது பின்னூட்டத்தில் இதை கூறியிருக்கிறேனே. ஆனால் நீங்கள் கூறியது போல் "ஆரோமலே" பாடல் காப்பி அல்ல. அது காப்பி என்று நீங்கள் குற்றம் சாட்டினால் அதை நிரூபிக்க வேண்டியது உங்கள் கடமை. தயவு செய்து யூட்யூப்பில் படித்தேன் என்று கூறாதீர்கள்.

இளையராஜாவின் விருதுகளை பறிக்க வேண்டும் என்று யாரும் கூறவில்லை. நீங்கள் தான் இரஹ்மானின் ஆஸ்கரை பறிக்க வேண்டும் என்றீர்கள்.

ஒரு இடத்தில் நான் பொதுவானவன் என்கிறீர்கள். இன்னொரு இடத்தில் எனக்கு பயாஸ் உண்டு என்கிறீர்கள். குழப்புகிறீர்களே அய்யா.

[jaykay78]

வாங்க ஜே.கே. இதைதான் நாங்களும் ரொம்ப நாளா கேட்டுக்கிட்டிருக்கோம். அதுவும் இரஹ்மான் ஆஸ்கார் வாங்கினாலும் வாங்கினார், அவருக்கு அதுக்கு தகுதியில்லைன்னு எல்லாரும் ஒத்துக்கனும் அப்படின்னு ஒரு கூட்டம் இங்க ரொம்ப நாளா சுத்திக்கிட்டிருக்கு. அவர் அந்த விருதை வாங்கலைன்னாலும் எங்களுக்கு அவர் இசை எந்த விதத்திலயும் குறைஞ்சதில்லை. ஆனால் சில பேருக்கு அது அவங்க ஆளுக்கு ஏற்பட்ட அவமானம் அப்படின்னு கற்பனை பன்னிக்கிட்டு இப்படியெல்லாம் பேசிகிட்டு திரியிறாங்க. ஆஸ்கார் விருது கிடைக்கலைன்னாலும் இராஜா இசை குறைந்ததில்லை. எந்த விருதும் கிடைக்கலைன்னாலும் எம்.எஸ்.வி இசை சிறந்ததுதான்.



+1,....this is exactly my point too...Everybody's got a place in the industry,....they worked hard and got what they want....so why should we even compare them?????

[dochu]

@thozhar,
Although, I am biased to MSV, and older MDs, IR - I have posted few other similarities and discussed/acknowledged/surprised with many other current MDs similar works to west like HJ, YSR etc.

In this forum, generally anything against ARR is perceived as an attack from an IR fan. And it seems to be more reprehensible for an IR fan to say something about ARR and vice versa.

I really want to say that I have nothing against ARR in particular. I speak / discuss generally. Maybe if you check my previous posts, you can see that I have pointed HJ etc.

hence it is really unwarranted to assume I am talking on behalf of being an IR fan. That has nothing to do with pointing, say aaromale flick.

happy new year to you all!!

[satissh_r]

Dochu boss, just to set the context, I'm one of the silent members out here who reads through posts almost daily but hardly posts anything. I've noticed there are a few characters out here who I think are hardcore ARR haters more than them being fans of any other MDs, unfortunately I've had you in that list for a few years now. I'm glad you clarified that it is not the case in your previous post, I sincerely hope that is the case too. Take care and have a very happy and prosperous new year :) Cheers!!

[dochu]

@satissh_r
Thank you for the understanding.

[RR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fToUMaxKdL4&feature=player_embedded

[NOV]

One of the best ghazal songs in Tamil ever.

[dochu]

@RR,
I am sure people are aware, but thought to complete rest of your post. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3v1hMeymhM

[ravi200101]

Padagotti padathil varum intha arputhamana padalai kelungal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdhOOPp38M

Hear this IR song too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmfq3GsoSDU

I strongly feel that IR used the tune of Padagoti to make another song of similar tune. This song in " mullum malarum" was one of the hits in IR earlier career which also helped him to go a step up in his growth ladder.

[Music4Ever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ICFtXx546A

I have a Tamil song in mind after hearing the superb song in the above link.

[ajaybaskar]

Ennuyir Neethaane?

[Music4Ever]

Ennuyir Neethaane?

Nope :)

[dochu]

@Music4Ever,
Suspense is too much. Can you tell us what it is? Or atleast clues.
Unable to figure it out. :-)

[Music4Ever]

@Music4Ever,
Suspense is too much. Can you tell us what it is? Or atleast clues.
Unable to figure it out. :-)

It is ajaybaskar's favorite hero acting out that song and his favorite MD who composed it. My favorite MD as well. Mind you, it is my impression only and you (and he as well) may disagree. Since there are only limited number of movies that this MD has composed for that hero, this should offer some clue :)

[ajaybaskar]

Vijay and ARR? ATM and Udhaya. Honestly, it doesn't remind me of any song from either movie. :)

[Music4Ever]

Vijay and ARR? ATM and Udhaya. Honestly, it doesn't remind me of any song from either movie. :)

It is Rehanuma from Udhaya, IMO :) Maybe experts would call it inspiration but I find the resemblance striking :)

[Music4Ever]

@Music4Ever,
Suspense is too much. Can you tell us what it is? Or atleast clues.
Unable to figure it out. :-)

dochu, just now I read an earlier post where you say you are an MSV fan. Me too, rather was a fanatic in the seventies :) Around 2008 I met him, his wife, and son at Chennai airport and sang "Ezhudhugiraal oru pudhu kavithai vanna iru vizhiyaal oru poonkodhai" (lyrics from memory, so could be here and there). It is reported that he shares the same B'day as Kannadasan, but during my talk with her on that day his wife said his star is punarpoosam, which doesn't seem to match the day (June 24, 1928). Sadly, she is no more now.