IR's New albums - Ver 2008/2009

[kameshratnam]

Guys our point is why shd such a genius re use his tunes?

I am sure he is capable of bringing out even more good songs than pitchai pathiram and matha un kovilil..
He has composed many songs in different genres for many movies..this is the last we want

I hope PA again is not a repeat of his old songs...there are some remaining

[Sanjeevi]

Guys our point is why shd such a genius re use his tunes?

I am sure he is capable of bringing out even more good songs than pitchai pathiram and matha un kovilil..
He has composed many songs in different genres for many movies..this is the last we want

I hope PA again is not a repeat of his old songs...there are some remaining

Then why you guys shouting like

- people are not listening soul-strring old/new IR songs,
- people are missing underrated gems of IR
- people are raving pop-corn music

I think it gives chance to gain attention for underrated gems of IR.

but yes, it is not good to recycle mega hit IR songs but even it is OK if the recyle will target a different crowd such as recycling tamil hits for hindi audience.

[app_engine]

crajkumar_be,

:-)

[Fliflo]

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/heroes/2009/02/19-kamal-hassan-confirms-his-next-film.html


Kamal's new film. Who is the MD though?

[app_engine]

Kamal's new film. Who is the MD though?

No doubt it won't be IR :-(

I would only be too happy to be disproved.

[ananth222]

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/heroes/2009/02/19-kamal-hassan-confirms-his-next-film.html

Kamal's new film. Who is the MD though?
doubt it would be IR. I saw the hindi version. Its a good movie, but there is not much scope for music, and definitely no room for songs.

[NormalMan]

நான் ஏற்கனவே மாற்றங்களை ஆரம்பித்து வைத்து விட்டேன். அந்த மாற்றம் தொடர வேண்டும் என விரும்புகிறேன். எனவேதான் தொடர்ந்து மாற்றங்களை நாடிப் போகிறேன் என்றார் கமல்.

I highly doubt it will be IR.

For the record, Wednesday was an awesome movie. Simple and enjoyable.

[baroque]

Naseer and Anupam - AWEASOME :clap:

That's nice, Kamalji in A WEDNESDAY.... good thriller.
Very excited about kamalahaasan....

another thing...

Note to our adorable kamalhaasan --- யாராவது கமல் கிட்ட சொல்லுங்க வினதாக்கு ஆசைன்னு :)

I love the sitcom BECKER....TED DANSON IS AWESOME. :clap: :swinghead: :yakyak: You love his irritability.
whenever I watch the show, reruns.. (around late 90s - mid 2004)
My manasu longs to see our adorable Kamalhaasan doing this kind of role in a comedy. :)

or already he has done in some film I have missed. :roll:

vinatha. :)

[raja_fan]

Kamal has lost his direction in his professional life.

Idiotic films like Dasavatharam and remakes without any originality !

I hope IR does not work with him any more :)

Kamal maatrangalai thedi pogattum..avar mattum maarave maattaar

[cry_sandiego]

Raja_fan,

Could'nt have said it any better. I wish Kamal had seen MMKR and Dasavatharam side by side before releasing it.. What a disappointment .. IMHO, kamal's best movies are pre-Guna .. None of the post Guna movies really impressed me to the extent his Raja Parvai, Nayagan, Or Salangai Oli or Thevar Magan, Sathi leelavathy etc etc.. did.. THough i belive his talent, dedication, novelty are still intact the magical touch or the ability to package a good movie that has all aspects well done is long gone.. .Vettaiyadu Vilayadu had hardly a couple of frames that showed his touch... To me these days, Kamal's movies look like stage version of Crazy MOhan's drama's..Also his overindulgence in Comedy sucks..

Cheers
MSK

[irir123]

cry_sandiego - are you the MSK veteran-hubber, from the late 1990s ?

[cry_sandiego]

Yes - and 15 years older :)

MSK

[irir123]

cry_sandiego - sent you a PM

[vel]

crajkumar_be

you post has too many quotes, several layers of or just too many references (e.g. asking me to come outisde the IR forums etc) and too many counter-replies against quotes..ultimately i dont seem to really understand your problem? - cn u pls summarize clearly on the following,

a) UO, ur take on UO, and your kumurals abt how people took UO, inside the forum and outside the forum, and how ideally it should have been otherwise

b) NK, NL, ur take on these 2, and your kumurals abt how people took these two album, inside the forum and outside the forum, and how ideally it should have been otherwise

[jaiganes]

http://jeyamohan.in/?p=1715
IR fan making a film with IR!!!

[cry_sandiego]

irir123,

Sorry did not get it. Please resend to msk_rcom@yahoo_removethis_.com

Sorry for the dig.

Cheers
MSK

[thumburu]

I should admit , my hope on IR revived after UO . I rate UO and NK equally , but UO , a tad higher . "Abhinayam kaattugindra" and "agandhaiyil aaduvadhaa" assuaged my sinking feeling about IR , that the creativity in him is still ticking . To hell with Kalaignyar TV which had nothing better to advertise other than "azhagi varaa" and "kaalathai vendra" in Bhavathaarini's horrendous vocals. Even when they telecast UO in their "Ulaga thollai kaatchi", they had the audacity to chop off the best song in the movie, "abhinayam kaattugindra". Enna rasanaiyo!!!
Regarding "NK", only "kaNNil paarvai" worked for me before watching the movie. Now "Maa ganga" and "Ohm Shivoham" [such a kickass song to match the sensational visuals] are perched top in my playlist

[app_engine]

Even when they telecast UO in their "Ulaga thollai kaatchi", they had the audacity to chop off the best song in the movie, "abhinayam kaattugindra". Enna rasanaiyo!!!


I don't think this song got picturized, it's not there in the DVD as well. Another case of non-screen gem by IR:-)

[rajaalltheway]

Todays malayalam dailys carry reports on Pazhassi raja release date as August 15th..

[rajaalltheway]

Guys our point is why shd such a genius re use his tunes?

I am sure he is capable of bringing out even more good songs than pitchai pathiram and matha un kovilil..
He has composed many songs in different genres for many movies..this is the last we want

I hope PA again is not a repeat of his old songs...there are some remaining
Dude..it was on Balas' request the songs were reused.If my memory is correct Amma Un Pillai got recorded sometime back in 2006,first by Preeti uttam singh and later by Sadhana.Then the script changed,cast changed..scenes got deleted.Bala sir wanted the blind girl sing songs which she heard in radios and public areas.When pooja came in he decided he would use original vintage songs in the movie for authenticity instaed of the cover versions,its a bala trademark.Ayya agreed and a new song was recorded for Pooja to sing in the train.When the Aghori rituals and cannibalistic scenes were deleted 'Oru kaattil' also vanished

[crajkumar_be]

:notthatway:
The post was not "for" you. I had quoted your post in reply to app_engine saying that UO had more recognition and appreciation than NK in general (you had said just the opposite in your reply as to why you hadnt talked about NK) :)

crajkumar_be

you post has too many quotes, several layers of or just too many references (e.g. asking me to come outisde the IR forums etc) and too many counter-replies against quotes..ultimately i dont seem to really understand your problem? - cn u pls summarize clearly on the following,

a) UO, ur take on UO, and your kumurals abt how people took UO, inside the forum and outside the forum, and how ideally it should have been otherwise

b) NK, NL, ur take on these 2, and your kumurals abt how people took these two album, inside the forum and outside the forum, and how ideally it should have been otherwise

[NormalMan]

Even when they telecast UO in their "Ulaga thollai kaatchi", they had the audacity to chop off the best song in the movie, "abhinayam kaattugindra". Enna rasanaiyo!!!


I don't think this song got picturized, it's not there in the DVD as well. Another case of non-screen gem by IR:-)

Did you watch that kandraavi movie on a DVD? Amazing songs gone utter waste.

[appushiva]

Hello,

First let us congratulate A.R.Rahman for his twin oscar's.

Regarding NK song "Amma un pillai Nan" and "Kannil" , both the songs are extra ordinary which penetrates our brain squeezing the agony of beggars world wide , the songs doesn't need any movie picturisation to support. IR captivated the human minds by his skill with the contemporary keyboard usuage but still mesmerising. The song "Amma un pillai Nan" resembles the pain and cry of indian women's when their beloved are dead or taken away.

Only drawback in the song is the sadhana sargam's sweetness in her voice which is inherent , but she justified for being selected to sing the song.

Otherwise the song is universal for all language and no other song deserve to compare with it.

I am confident IR is getting his "master blaster" form again.

Let us wish him all the best.

[teja]

Indeed, while it's awesome to see ARR win it, it is kinda sad that Ilayaraja did not get this kind of global recognition he truly deserved. Wish he had released his "Royal philharmonic symphony"!
What's even more astonishing is that our Indian govt did not bestow with him with even a PadmaSri.

Guess these days talent alone is not sufficient. You need the PR

[irir123]

teja - there is no point in either you or me feeling sad abt IR not getting any recognition - that man himself should feel it, which I sincerely doubt is happening at all!

just wait and watch - some Rajkiran-like composer will approach him for a 'rural' film and IR will simply do a rustic score with a small ensemble of violins - and people like you and me will marvel at the counterpoints et al, the movie will never get released or will be a C-grade output

at this rate, recognition or not, IR should just stop doing movies, and focus ONLY on non-film albums - if he doesnt do it now, its never for him - n he simply retire for good

[raja_fan]

irir123 hit it straight !

I am so sad today that a genius here is yet to be recognized :( :(

All because not lack of stuff, but lack of

1. Fruitful associations.

2. marketing himself in a modern way instead of roaming like a Sanyasi.

3. Attitude to get along with people who would have taken him to Mumbai in a big way. Whether we like it or not, Mumbai is the gateway of India as it has been proved today.


Ok...anyways..Oscar is great..but it is not a stamp for genius..Take the example of Thyagaraja. He is greatest regardless of how many people know about him !

A gem is a gem wherever it stays even hidden :)

[eagle]

at this rate, recognition or not, IR should just stop doing movies, and focus ONLY on non-film albums - if he doesnt do it now, its never for him - n he simply retire for good

But dont you think at a time like this, the indian kind of music particularly songs in movies are getting popular in the west should ilayaraja stop doing movies? :o or try some more time?

Jus kidding. He shd have done that atleast a decade back. I am today feeling so bad as a raaja fan. its inevitable... the comparisons will come now...

wat he cud have achieved as a composer of non film albums, if had he chosen to starting from the royal philharmonic symphony is anybody's imagination... by this time he wud not have won any oscar but wud have definitely ranked along with all time great composers!!!

[NormalMan]

[tscii:4aa70fbd98]Let's face reality. This poor guy is not even being recognized by his own countrymen, including the Indian government not bestowing any civilian awards. This is the truth, his numerous mind blowing scores were for sori dappa movies; of-late, his score in Guru was simply mind blowing and outstanding and yet no one knows about it; his Tiruvasagam deserved a Grammy nomination to say the least and yet it was a royal screw up;the list goes on. This poor dude had all it takes to win every possible award. He totally lost it ….

I think the only guy whose metaphor like comparison that is shockingly coming true is Kamal's. "Bharathi madhiri kitta thatta talent". Poor souls the former never crossed the boundaries of Chennai and latter was a little better, but never crossed Guduvancheri.

The only hope is for a guy like Balki to market him to the right level. Hopefully as a staunch IR fan he does something.
[/tscii:4aa70fbd98]

[Vysar]

AR Rahman speech

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.

Rahman made it because he didn't have any above said virtue and learned to appreciate other MD without any ego.

[NormalMan]

AR Rahman speech

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.

Rahman made it because he didn't have any above said virtue and learned to appreciate other MD without any ego.

Dude I have no idea what you trying to say here. IR is one of the biggest open mouthed MD, who appreciates true genius talent - be it C.Ramachandra, SDB, Roshan, Salil, MSV. So stop the rubbish whatever you are trying to start

[raja_fan]

AR Rahman speech

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.

Rahman made it because he didn't have any above said virtue and learned to appreciate other MD without any ego.




OMG !
I did not know that the Oscar commitee does all the background check of whether a candidate loves or hates anyone :P

[irir123]

AR Rahman speech

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.

Rahman made it because he didn't have any above said virtue and learned to appreciate other MD without any ego.

Vysar - why get into trouble ??

[jaiganes]

Vysar is like some cases I knew who told that Rahman cried at a friend's house in London that Ilaiyaraaja scolded him 'urupadaama poiduve' once upon a time. Ivavalavu maturity irundhaa poadhumnu ninaikaren.

[kameshratnam]

irir123 hit it straight !

I am so sad today that a genius here is yet to be recognized :( :(

All because not lack of stuff, but lack of

1. Fruitful associations.

2. marketing himself in a modern way instead of roaming like a Sanyasi.

3. Attitude to get along with people who would have taken him to Mumbai in a big way. Whether we like it or not, Mumbai is the gateway of India as it has been proved today.


Ok...anyways..Oscar is great..but it is not a stamp for genius..Take the example of Thyagaraja. He is greatest regardless of how many people know about him !

A gem is a gem wherever it stays even hidden :)

When we wanted to celebrate 25 years of IR in tamizh cinema he told us " So u want the world to know that i m being written off is it" ..EKSI..we cannot help it...He is surronded by false people who just want to be near him...i hate people who tell me that they listen only to IR's music...
The jalaras and chinchas who are near him we will not even allow us to even go near and talk to him. No one has the guts or the audacity to go and tell Raja...Raja these are hard facts please do something..we dont know how he wud react but someone must be born to make him agree to release RPO and let the world recognise this genius..else all of us wud have to get ourselves contended with one fact..IR is a musical genius..full stop...

He told a long time back that he wants to do more of non film albums and we as fans have pledged our support to it...dunno why he is not even starting those projects...

[raja_fan]

IR not releasing RPO for this long adds strength to the doubts that arised if that was really a symphony.

I still remember reading the front page news on Indian Express ( I think the year was 93 ), about IR recording a symphony for RPO. It had Kamal saying "Now our MD goes international ".

And the next sunday magazine carried a full page interview and article on IR. It said some industrialist Bajaj introduced IR to John Scott of RPO and IR completed the work in just 1 month, a record.

But only in recent years, we hear that it was IR who approached and paid RPO for recording his symphony !

It could be true considering the fact that IR still doesn't open his mouth on that...

Anyways, now that ARR has reached greater heights in popularity, any attempt by IR will die down in the noise or taken as something done under peer pressure...

So lets leave it like that and continue enjoying his film music as usual ...

Gulab jamoonukku award kedaichaa, sakkarai pongal kasandhurumaa enna :)

[sloshed]

Will IR attend ARR felicitation ?? I am quite nervous !!! Even if he does will he speak at the function .. Since this is about a Musician .. people will look forward to what IR has to say ... This is going to be a nailbiter!

[Sanjeevi]

Vysar is like some cases I knew who told that Rahman cried at a friend's house in London that Ilaiyaraaja scolded him 'urupadaama poiduve' once upon a time. Ivavalavu maturity irundhaa poadhumnu ninaikaren.

:shock:

Is it? :o

I doubt that this happened. If yes, what was TMS for IR is now IR for ARR???

[vigneshram]

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8056/94320882.jpg

Check out the link above for the intimation to press from Cine musicians union for felicitation of ARR.

Chief Guest is Dr.Balamurali Krishna. Raja is one of the dignitaries to grace the function.

[crajkumar_be]

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8056/94320882.jpg

Check out the link above for the intimation to press from Cine musicians union for felicitation of ARR.

Chief Guest is Dr.Balamurali Krishna. Raja is one of the dignitaries to grace the function.
:clap:

[rajasaranam]

Well I dont know why there are so many cry babies around. Its after all an award :D

[raja_fan]

The program is going to be telecasted by SUN TV !

Thalaiva..., medaila edhaavadhu thathuvam pesaama irunga...Yerkkanave "garvi"-nu oru paer vaangi vachirukeenga.........

[nanchil_guy]

Well I dont know why there are so many cry babies around. Its after all an award :D

[nanchil_guy]

Sorry about the above wrongly posted message.


About the ARR fecilitation,

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/specials/2009/02/24-ilayaraja-to-participate-ar-rahman-felicitation.html

[raagas]

Sorry about the above wrongly posted message.


About the ARR fecilitation,

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/specials/2009/02/24-ilayaraja-to-participate-ar-rahman-felicitation.html

seems like a big article. Can anyone translate some paragraphs atleast, into English... apart from the apparent matter reflected in the weblink name, that IR will be attending the programme. Anything else?

[raagas]

Well I dont know why there are so many cry babies around. Its after all an award :D

afterall an award? seriously?

I agree that it is not ultimate benchmark for talent.
i agree that IR too is capable. I agree that this award celebrates their(western) sensibilities and not ours. i also agree that there were/are better scores which can deserve the award. the award-winner himself composed much better music than this. But still, all said and done, it is considered a big award right. and for some strange reason, the score clicked with them. I think we shld have happy about the moment, because no one pulled it off so far (despite being capable). to think of it, after Satyajit Ray and Bhanu Athaiya, ARR and Rasool are the only winners. indeed it is a big moment.

will we say the same thing 'just an award' if IR won it, suppose?

c'mon, lets be fair and feel good about the moment that someone won it and the person who won it is not a 'chaltha-hai' composer, but a hardworking, sincere and talented composer in his own right, although musical styles are different from that of IR.

I would be glad if IR, for once, speaks openly abt ARR, thus putting an end to the perceived (dont know if it is true) rivalry. i havent seen IR talking abt ARR and when he did, in early 90s, it was unnecessary and derogatory, which i didnt like. Hope there is more of inclusive attitude, so that atleast fans can stop fighting, if that happens.

[Plum]

Raagas, Rahmanukkum Rajavukkum ulla rivalryngaradhu "Whose daddy is bigger" type illai. Avangalukku orutharai oruthar musical geniuskaga parattaradhu vandhu- it is against their school of thought on music!
For Rahman, deliberation, improvisation, constant tinkering with a view to a more pleasing final product-nu, break all rules-nu avar route vera
For Raja, spontaneity, speed, rigidity, fidelity to underlying forms appadinu avar route vera
That is why when Rahman appreciates Raja, he says pothampodhuva "Avaroda spiritualityum, clean livingum naan kathunden avar kitte irundhu"num, Raja rahmana- pathi sollunga na "Andha paiyan vida muyarchi, uzhaippu, idhellam viyakka vaikardhu" ngara madhiriuym sollittu vitturvanga.
But idhai maiyama vechu, fanskulla nadakkara sandaingaradhu "whose daddy is bigger" sandai. Adhukku avanga rendu perum poruppali illai. Idhukkaga, lifelong belief-ai vuttu kuduthu, innoru school of musical thought-ai accept pannikka mudiyadhu rendu pernalayum :-)

[crajkumar_be]

Plum,
Raagas doesn't know Thamizh :)

[rajasaranam]

Well I dont know why there are so many cry babies around. Its after all an award :D

afterall an award? seriously?

.

Yeah Seriously :)
Its ok if people here are feeling happy for Rahman. I questioned why there is a cribbing among Raaja fans that Rahman has got an award.It paints a bad picture of us fans among others (ARR fans precisely, I know many of them should be taking this as a personal victory and this whining by Raaja fans will bring more satisfaction to them). We should accept that Raaja is not into it and move on is what my post implied.

[eagle]

But only in recent years, we hear that it was IR who approached and paid RPO for recording his symphony !

It could be true considering the fact that IR still doesn't open his mouth on that...



Vysar is like some cases I knew who told that Rahman cried at a friend's house in London that Ilaiyaraaja scolded him 'urupadaama poiduve' once upon a time. Ivavalavu maturity irundhaa poadhumnu ninaikaren.

What else we need to know about raaja?. This is worse than backstabbing. I can understand the disappointment of the hardcore fans, but end of the day we talk about his music which is the only reason we love him. Enough of gossips and rumors about a man who maintains silence most of the time.

[raagas]

crajkumar, Thanks for that :)

Plum, can you please write it in english.

RS,

Oh, thats the point. yes, u r totally right. i thought you dismissed ARR's oscar win as 'nothing' kind of thing and i felt we might not look at the same way if IR won it. i mean, whatever it is, it is good that he won and thats what i wanted to say. and as you said this is not the time for cribbing.

[nanchil_guy]

I would be glad if IR, for once, speaks openly abt ARR, thus putting an end to the perceived (dont know if it is true) rivalry. i havent seen IR talking abt ARR and when he did, in early 90s, it was unnecessary and derogatory, which i didnt like. Hope there is more of inclusive attitude, so that atleast fans can stop fighting, if that happens.

Please dont put all the responsiblity on IR alone, for that matter both of them didnt come out open with their opinion on each other until recently.

And i have never heard about so called 'derogatory' comment of IR on ARR. Where as i do remember ARR sayin that he never listened IR music in an early 90' intw.Recently he disputed it though saying 'to not getting inspired by IR music only i dont listen to IR music'.

On the other hand IR hailed ARR as the apt person for all these praise and awrds as he is the hard working guy in his series in a tamil daily.

So both of them have the mutual respect, it's only the fans who are thinkning other ways.

[kameshratnam]

The program is going to be telecasted by SUN TV !

Thalaiva..., medaila edhaavadhu thathuvam pesaama irunga...Yerkkanave "garvi"-nu oru paer vaangi vachirukeenga.........

Yes Raaja, the Musical Genius.. this is a request from ur fans sir..please dont come and say thatuvams..

I remember he coming to malipoovu function and saying " Hey..those who say u r doing new things in music..what r u doing....there are 7 swarams and what are we are doing is we making combinations and fooling around"..

He added: Did u find anything new ......I wish he doesnt say anything like that

[gganesh]

The program is going to be telecasted by SUN TV !

Thalaiva..., medaila edhaavadhu thathuvam pesaama irunga...Yerkkanave "garvi"-nu oru paer vaangi vachirukeenga.........

Yes Raaja, the Musical Genius.. this is a request from ur fans sir..please dont come and say thatuvams..



What got me towards raaja sir is music... but why I am thinking of him almost everyday is because of the sort of personality he is...

Do you think he wishes for an award... he wants to transcend life... it is comprehensible through the acts and roles he is indulged in nowadays... lyrics of "pitchai paathiram" are written by him... "பிண்டமென்னும் எலும்பொடு சதை நரம்புதிரமும் அடங்கிய உடம்பு எனும்" dont u think of the personality behind these words... He is a sort of an accomplished soul... he has his own world... horizon in which he dwells into... Let he remain in peace.... don't go gaga over his attitude towards life... by his very nature his all sayings have some sort of philosophies in them... if u think or the world thinks he is garvi let them be... I think it is his attitude towards life that brought the best out of him... the melody... the harmony... the arrangements... the soothing BGMS... the orchestration.... everything is his life and he is in his simple best...

If an award eludes him should he tamper his life with the thought... His thoughts are beyond limits and you as a fan should understand the sort of personality he is... His world is unique and so he is not good at marketing himself.... it is also because he is thinking beyond his self... Its the maturity that we should develop that... a global musician has got a global award... it is no mean achievement in a competitive market... Let us wish AR and let raaja sir live his own life... I think sir would also mind to do so...

[Shakthiprabha.]

Do you think he wishes for an award...He is a sort of an accomplished soul... he has his own world... horizon in which he dwells into... Let he remain in peace.... don't go gaga over his attitude towards life... if u think or the world thinks he is garvi let them be... I think it is his attitude towards life that brought the best out of him... the melody... the harmony... the arrangements... the soothing BGMS... the orchestration.... everything is his life and he is in his simple best...

His thoughts are beyond limits and you as a fan should understand the sort of personality he is... His world is unique and so he is not good at marketing himself.... it is also because he is thinking beyond his self... Its the maturity that we should develop that...Let us wish AR and let raaja sir live his own life... I think sir would also mind to do so...

:bow: very very well said.
I find music to my SOUL (not just my heart or mind) with IR music.
He has reached innumerable people and touched their very self (soul) with his music. Thats enough.

[Plum]

"Plum,
Raagas doesn't know Thamizh "
CR, kizhinjidhu po!
Raagas, I usually find it difficult to translate - I dont think before writing and write it as I think so it becomes difficult to capture it in a different language - still I'll try:
"The personal rivalry between Rahman and Raja, as I perceive it, is not about 'whose daddy is bigger', which is what the rivalry between their respective fans is. What stops both of them from praising each other's music full-heartedly, is, again as I perceive it, a difference between their respective schools of thought on music. For Rahman, music is about the final product and how pleasing it is to the ears. Deliberation, improvisation, constant tinkering with a view to a more pleasing final product - that is his route. His style includes cross-audience pleasing elements and while I'm putting it in such simple words, that is not so easy to achieve. Break all Rules, infact, learn all rules with a view to breaking them later is a root aspect of his musical philosophy. For Raja, spontaneity, speed, rigidity, fidelity to underlying forms -these are sarcosanct. You can think that of a person who visualises music as a sequence of notes in his mind first. When this twain meet...well, they dont meet, do they?
That is why when ARR talks about IR, he talks about the latter's spirituality and clean living and emphasises those as the attributes he absorbed from IR. IR's musical elements are not in his school of thought and therein lies his hesitation to acknowledge IR as his influence. In a way I would say, by choosing to do things IR didnt do, in a way IR influenced him but thats just semantics :-).

Coming to IR, he would probably talk about Rahman's perseverance, toil and effort rather than about specific musical output.

The clash between their fans is of "whose daddy is bigger" but you cannot hold them responsible for it even if they refuse to acknowledge each other's musical prowess - they cannot abandon a lifelong belief in their musical school of thought just because their fans have a more primal rivalry - as rajasaranam indicates, some ARR fans might even be taking this as a personal victory and taking personal satisfaction in whining by some Raja fans but that is totally missing the point. I am comfortable with ARR/IR not acknowledging each other's specific musical prowess. I wouldnt call either of them mean and churlish for it.

[Hulkster]

Ganesh, thats what i am telling this people from day one. But they seem to think IR has become some sort of lonely soul seeking for despair with no recognition. Its quite obvious from all his speeches that he is more of publicity-void personality who does not like music being showcased around for recognition purposes. He is like a philosophical person who believes music should be brought out for a good purpose and for people to understand rather than be marketed.

Ithu yellam purinchirunthaa evalo negativity intha forumil irukaathu.

[nanchil_guy]

If an award eludes him should he tamper his life with the thought... His thoughts are beyond limits and you as a fan should understand the sort of personality he is... His world is unique and so he is not good at marketing himself.... it is also because he is thinking beyond his self... Its the maturity that we should develop that... a global musician has got a global award... it is no mean achievement in a competitive market... Let us wish AR and let raaja sir live his own life... I think sir would also mind to do so...

You are right on money!! IMO most of us IR fans didnt understand his charcter/personality fully. The same thing which we regard as the best of the world might matters nothing to IR. Thats what i have observed from all his books and speech.

Where as on the other hand, no one would hv imagined about an indian/tamilian getting an oscar even in their dream, Now ARR has got two. Rather than whinning about IR not being recognized globally, now its time to celebrate as IR gonna do.

[raagas]

Plum

you achoed my thoughts. there is a difference in schools of thought. I wonder why fans on either side fail to absorb this fact. I, for one, enjoy the music created by both. IR gives me certain kind of enjoyment and ARR's music gives me enjoyment of another type. Fine enough. Both are different and have some commonalities, such as - both being perfectionists (the point is not abt whose is best, but they both polish their tunes to the maximum possible level) and both being sincere in whatever they do.

It would be interesting to see what IR has got to say about ARR, from his perspective. ARR already told abt IR many times and 'How To Name It' is ARR's most fav instrumental album.

[rajasaranam]

gganesh,

You almost wrote my mind :) Not only his music, sometimes his philosophical outlook towards life has inspired me (Not Theism, ofcourse) That I have come to ignore these awards, celebration etall and just smile at the 'Arthamatra koochal'.
raagas asked me a genuine question that 'If I will be like this had Raaja won the award?'. 'I really dont know' is the answer. Its too long that he had won any award and I've just become numb to the fact. There were some honorary awards bestowed on him by AP Govt. and some filmfare awards he got, It did stir me a little but there was no great elation. The reason is Every goddamn year I found some one else (Not only ARR) getting an award I knew that there was an album composed by Raaja which was far more superior 'musically'. Siraichaalai, Heyram, Bharathi, devarmagan, mahanathi, Sethu, Pithamagan, Guru...to name a few. So I sincerely think that we Raaja fans have to just ignore these awards and move on...Because there is no meaning in it, Period!

[thumburu]

I second plum. When IR and ARR pursue diagonally opposite school of music, I dunt expect one to compliment or even acknowledge the other . I wonder why the fans expect their idols to lavish empty rhetoric just for publicity sake.
As an aside, The devil in me likes to actually see the rivals with their claws sharpened. But in reality they are so "diplomacy" personified that only the fans have to fight a bland battle [ adikkadhengo - jk]

[crajkumar_be]

Its quite obvious from all his speeches that he is more of publicity-void personality who does not like music being showcased around for recognition purposes. .
Have you seen the promotional interviews of Hey Ram and Thiruvasagam? Just curious :)

[Plum]

"The devil in me likes to actually see the rivals with their claws sharpened"
thumburu, there, you speak for me. I'd rather IR and ARR debate the merits of their school of thought than us.

[crajkumar_be]

I'd rather IR and ARR debate the merits of their school of thought than us.
Fair enough but geniuses don't debate, they create :)
Debating and fighting fanboy wars is for us mortals, connoisseurs and "consumers"

[Plum]

CR, of course. Avanga enna nammala maadhiri joli illama thiriyarangala? Indha vetti pechu, kutti chuvar ellam namma dhaan - aanalum "mallakka paduthikittu..." from Winner gnabagam varudhu :-)

[crajkumar_be]

CR, of course. Avanga enna nammala maadhiri joli illama thiriyarangala? Indha vetti pechu, kutti chuvar ellam namma dhaan - aanalum "mallakka paduthikittu..." from Winner gnabagam varudhu :-)
:exactly: :lol:

[equanimus]

nallA irukkE kadhai... appO En laddu kudththAnga?

[njv]

AR Rahman speech

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.

Rahman made it because he didn't have any above said virtue and learned to appreciate other MD without any ego.

Vysar - I really thought that he is passing on a strong message to the terrorists across the world that you choose love or hate and if you do choose love, you can go heights.

I dont know ARR's true intentions, but I am going to continue to interprent the way I did and i think this is the best message someone can give to them.

[rajasaranam]

Its quite obvious from all his speeches that he is more of publicity-void personality who does not like music being showcased around for recognition purposes. .
Have you seen the promotional interviews of Hey Ram and Thiruvasagam? Just curious :)

What were your readings from those interview?!! just curious :)
Off the mark What are your current thoughts on RDB as a soundtrack?

[crajkumar_be]

Its quite obvious from all his speeches that he is more of publicity-void personality who does not like music being showcased around for recognition purposes. .
Have you seen the promotional interviews of Hey Ram and Thiruvasagam? Just curious :)

What were your readings from those interview?!! just curious :)
Off the mark What are your current thoughts on RDB as a soundtrack?
RS,
Self-trumpeting in those interviews. (Onnum illadha naama, naai nariyellam pannumbodhu Isaikkadavul panna yenna nu nyayama kekkalaam :lol: )
Not that conceit is a problem in itself (namma makkal 'humility', 'being humble' a orediya overrate panraangalo nu thonudhu) but its just that IR madhiri oru aal idhellam panna vendiya avasiyam enakku therila. I've noticed this on a few other occassions.
And his quick and sweeping dismissal of everything (music) that is contemporary as "popcorn music" (forgetting that he himself has given some immortal popcorn classics).

Not to nitpick but as a response to an assertion of IR's perceived anti-publicity image and alleged indifference to adulation etc...

RDB - Why do you ask? :)
A good soundtrack but i wouldn't trouble myself too much to have it on my playlist NOW. Would listen to "Loose control" for its "yaanai nenjula midhichufying" thump :)

[Plum]

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.
"
Ada empa, adhaan Rahman-e sollitare Choose Love-nu - adhai quote pannittu adutha line-leye unga IR-hate-ai ipdi kottina epdi? Neenga konjam yoiskkalam illai?

[Plum]

Hey Ram-la IR-oda interview-va? Enna sonnar? Sariya gnabagam illai - but what I rememberr from it is an enthusiasm to describe in detail the process by which he arrived at the final score - and his joy at the discovery of this music in him. Ennale dhaan mudiyumnu arrogant-a sonna gnabagam illaye...

[MumbaiRamki]

Hey Ram-la IR-oda interview-va? Enna sonnar? Sariya gnabagam illai - but what I rememberr from it is an enthusiasm to describe in detail the process by which he arrived at the final score - and his joy at the discovery of this music in him. Ennale dhaan mudiyumnu arrogant-a sonna gnabagam illaye...

1) During Heyram interview , he mentioned that this is the first time it has happened in indian film industry and he is the pioneer for it .

2) In Lajja, he did say that only he can envision such a score ( with respect to title score) . In my view , its correct - but people r going to read different views here . What he meant by that , nobody knows !
I ahve seen contrasting statements from abt his own music , which matches with great artists in different mindsets !

[eagle]

AR Rahman speech

"God gave me a choice of love and hate, I chose love thats why I am here."

hate, jealousy, cheating never gets a man the fame even if he stands upside down. you know to whom the reference go to.

Rahman made it because he didn't have any above said virtue and learned to appreciate other MD without any ego.

FYI

ரஹ்மானின் ஆஸ்கார் விருது(கள்) பற்றி எவ்வளவோ எழுதப்பட்டுவிட்டது. அவர் அடைந்த வெற்றிகள், சிகரம் தொட்ட இசைக் கோலங்கள் இவற்றையெல்லாம் விட அவர் நேற்று ஆஸ்கார் மேடையில் சொன்ன ஒரு வாக்கியம் என்னை நெடு நேரம் யோசிக்க வைத்தது. நாள் பூராவும் அவற்றையே அசை போட்டுக் கொண்டிருந்தேன். அவை:

"All my life I've had a choice of hate and love, I chose love and I am here"

எவ்வளவு நிஜம்!

நேசத்தைத் தேர்ந்தெடுத்துக் கொண்டவர்கள் வெற்றிகளில் குளிக்கிறார்கள்
வெறுப்பை விதைப்பவர்கள் யுத்தங்களில் மடிகிறார்கள்!

Vysar, Learn to interpret in a correct way more importantly never in your own way. You are just disgracing yourself.

[Fliflo]

Shall we fall back from our distraction to discuss only about IR's new albums please! How often we chew the same stuff by grinding it back and forth like a 4 stomached cow.

Let's learn to move on guys!

[irir123]

IR's personality is one of the most confusing/ complicated ones (going by his interviews, books and speeches) - my understanding is that IR gives statements based on what he perceives/understands is the motive behind the interviewer's questions!

If IR gets even the slightest indication/feeling that someone is asking questions to either provoke him with a controversial answer, take him for a ride, or show him in bad light, then the interviewer had it - the answer will be blunt, straightforward, like a slap-on-the-face!

I remember a DoorDharshan interview sometime in the early 1990s, when IR was happily answering questions, until the interviewer asked something he shd not have - it went something like "you are from a village(pattikkaadu), how do you manage to compose music that fits the urban mindset/requirement ?" - tat obviously ticked off IR and he replied "is being from a village inferior ? i dont like the tone of your language (unga tone sari illai)" or something like that - tat was in an interview with millions of ppl watching it in their homes!! the guy realized the politically incorrect question he had asked too late to even apologize or go back and rephrase his question

am sure that mediapersons must have ticked off IR in similar fashion and hence he avoids them like plague. And even when he does answer questions, he carefully avoids direct remarks about anyone/anything, unless and until prompted by the interviewer with an obvious ill-intent and then he has to face IR's verbal 'music'!!

If a truely music-knowledgeable person approaches IR with a sincere attitude and poses questions, IR wud be equally sincere - or even if that some1 does not have anything to do with music, if he/she approaches IR with sincerity, am sure he wud deal with them amicably- vambu, vidhandaavaadham, appadeennu alaiyaravangalai IR ignores them - I see nothing wrong with it!

having said all this, let me imagine a hypothetical situation of IR being nominated for the Oscars - and the jury asks IR some questions about his music/the techniques he employs and our man, depending on his perception of the jury's intentions wud either reply positively, or simply tell them "oru paravai parakkumbodhu, adhu siragai evvaru viruthhu parandhadhu endru kettal, paravai yenna sollum ? adhu pol thaan en isaiyum" or something similar and the jury wud be left scratching their heads!

[popeye11]

IR's personality is one of the most confusing/ complicated ones (going by his interviews, books and speeches) - my understanding is that IR gives statements based on what he perceives/understands is the motive behind the interviewer's questions!

If IR gets even the slightest indication/feeling that someone is asking questions to either provoke him with a controversial answer, take him for a ride, or show him in bad light, then the interviewer had it - the answer will be blunt, straightforward, like a slap-on-the-face!

I remember a DoorDharshan interview sometime in the early 1990s, when IR was happily answering questions, until the interviewer asked something he shd not have - it went something like "you are from a village(pattikkaadu), how do you manage to compose music that fits the urban mindset/requirement ?" - tat obviously ticked off IR and he replied "is being from a village inferior ? i dont like the tone of your language (unga tone sari illai)" or something like that - tat was in an interview with millions of ppl watching it in their homes!! the guy realized the politically incorrect question he had asked too late to even apologize or go back and rephrase his question

am sure that mediapersons must have ticked off IR in similar fashion and hence he avoids them like plague. And even when he does answer questions, he carefully avoids direct remarks about anyone/anything, unless and until prompted by the interviewer with an obvious ill-intent and then he has to face IR's verbal 'music'!!

If a truely music-knowledgeable person approaches IR with a sincere attitude and poses questions, IR wud be equally sincere - or even if that some1 does not have anything to do with music, if he/she approaches IR with sincerity, am sure he wud deal with them amicably- vambu, vidhandaavaadham, appadeennu alaiyaravangalai IR ignores them - I see nothing wrong with it!

having said all this, let me imagine a hypothetical situation of IR being nominated for the Oscars - and the jury asks IR some questions about his music/the techniques he employs and our man, depending on his perception of the jury's intentions wud either reply positively, or simply tell them "oru paravai parakkumbodhu, adhu siragai evvaru viruthhu parandhadhu endru kettal, paravai yenna sollum ? adhu pol thaan en isaiyum" or something similar and the jury wud be left scratching their heads!
:lol: :lol:

[raagas]

Shall we fall back from our distraction to discuss only about IR's new albums please! How often we chew the same stuff by grinding it back and forth like a 4 stomached cow.

Let's learn to move on guys!

Point taken sir. :)

We are just hungry for new albums of IR. Hope JM comes in now.

[Hulkster]

Bala, I have seen them but i feel that he is not that arrogant as perceived. He is one who mentioned he is just doing whatever crumbs left behind by thyagaraja and bach before. I do understand his scientific/philosophic view of music is a nightmare for the media which is given to us in a arrogant way.

[Plum]

"1) During Heyram interview , he mentioned that this is the first time it has happened in indian film industry and he is the pioneer for it . "
Enakku therinju, he used the phrase "Enakku therinju" before saying this. Illainaalu, this might well be a statement of fact.

[rajasaranam]

[tscii:cd01716203]This is really shocking :shock:
http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news-1/feb-09-04/indravizha-25-02-09.html


As expected, the actual purpose of the event was rather eclipsed by the joy that was brought by Rahman’s double Oscar victory. Speaking at the function, Balu Mahendra reminisced about the first steps of Rahman into the music world. He recalled that he was the chairman of the jury deciding the National Awards in the year when both Roja and Devar Magan were released. He was in mental turmoil when both the movies were neck to neck when it came to the award for best music. Since he was a very close friend of Ilayaraja, he decided to stay away from the jury because he felt that his friendship might prevent him from making the right decision. But as fate would have it, the ballot by the rest of the jury turned out to be a deadlock and it was up to the chairman to bring in his casting ballot. It was a tough decision to make, but he put his trust in God and cast the vote in favor Rahman, hoping to spur the young man on to greater heights. Today, he said, that his 16 year old decision stood vindicated.

BM was responsible for giving away the National award to Rahman instead of Raaja.
At first I was digusted at the 'Karugaalithanam' of BM... Few seconds later it gives me immense pleasure to understand him - What a noble gesture by Balu Mahendra! he should have known DM was musically superior to Roja (Apart from the friendship with Raaja) and still gave away the award :thumbsup:

...and Raaja had maintained his friendship with BM till date shows the amount of maturity he has and the degree of importance to an award he gives.

This adds on to my respect over Raaja and shows what his fans should take from his life. What I said yesterday is validated now 'Its afterall an award'. So stop whining kids and move on... :)[/tscii:cd01716203]

[krish244]

It seems it was a deadlock in deciding on who would be the national award winner (for music) between "Roja" and "Thevar Magan":

http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news-1/feb-09-04/indravizha-25-02-09.html

thanks,

Krishnan

[Sanjeevi]

Good pick RS

news to me

[raja_fan]

For people like Vyasar, this comes as a view from other side.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=409

[raja_fan]

For people like Vyasar, this comes as a view from other side.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=409

[raja_fan]

For people like Vyasar, this comes as a view from other side.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=409

[raja_fan]

Sorry for that multiple postings :)

[Plum]

RS, :-). On IR's opinion on awards, adhe dhaan. IR's attitude to recognition, I remember posting before, should be surmised from his lack of cooperation with his own fans trying to make selfless efforts to promote his music. Idhukku mela, words, speeches ellam analyse pandradhu waste. His actions speak.

On Roja vs Devar Magan, while what you say about IR's maturity is true, I dont agree about BM's noble gesture. While I wouldnt call it a betrayal of his friendship to IR, I would call it a betrayal of his commitment to the art of cinema. It was right of him to leave the decision to the jury in the first place because of his friendship with IR - now that sort of behaviour, you can hardly see - when the bollywood types head the jury, they give awards keeping in mind their friendships and a view to impress producers to give them chance - I remember Hum Tum got awards becuse the jury chairman was an Hindi alternate cinema director who wasy trying to get an opp with Yashraj films that time. So, yes, that was a noble gesture by Balu M. But casting the casting vote in favour of Roja wasnt. As a soundtrack for a movie, and BGM, Thevar Magan was superior to Roja. Clearly Balu says he gave it to Rahman to encourage the youngster. So that shows what he thought of the relative merits of the soundtracks as a soundtrack for movie. This being the case, choosing Roja was 'droham' to the art of cinema that he stayed fidel to for years.

I would put it this way - if we have a Grammy and Oscar equivalent in India, Roja could have got Grammy(for breaking new ground in popular music arena) but the oscar should go to Thevar Magan because we are evaluating a movie sound track. While that is only my opinion, the reason i am saying this is that cleraly that seems to be BM's opinion, and he seems to have given the NA like it were grammy while it is actually closer to Oscar.

[Plum]

raja_fan, let's ignore Vysar. I think the first two letters in his name stand for Vayatherichal :-)

[Plum]

That said, the religious politics discussed in your link is distasteful.

[Hulkster]

BM was responsible for giving away the National award to Rahman instead of Raaja.
At first I was digusted at the 'Karugaalithanam' of BM... Few seconds later it gives me immense pleasure to understand him - What a noble gesture by Balu Mahendra! he should have known DM was musically superior to Roja (Apart from the friendship with Raaja) and still gave away the award :thumbsup:

...and Raaja had maintained his friendship with BM till date shows the amount of maturity he has and the degree of importance to an award he gives.

This adds on to my respect over Raaja and shows what his fans should take from his life. What I said yesterday is validated now 'Its afterall an award'. So stop whining kids and move on... :)[/tscii]

I actually wonder how many of this close battles actually happened.

[rajasaranam]

That said, the religious politics discussed in your link is distasteful.

raja_fan himself is one who can be termed as hardline hindu fanatic (My observation through his rants and reviews). Its not surprising that he comes up with such obscure links to defame ARR.

[Hulkster]

Religion is the last thing we want to come down in this topic. I think its better we focus on our own music if not what Maddy has been saying that ARR features more than IR here is being proven right. :banghead:

Talking about national award, forget devar magan, which person or jury managed to ignore guru(malayalam),hey ram, kalapaani? When these films can get ignored then its surely politics.

[joe]

namma makkal 'humility', 'being humble' a orediya overrate panraangalo nu thonudhu

:exactly: enakkum pala thadavai thoNirukku.

[nanchil_guy]

[tscii:5a0e8ad7a8]This is really shocking :shock:
http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news-1/feb-09-04/indravizha-25-02-09.html


As expected, the actual purpose of the event was rather eclipsed by the joy that was brought by Rahman’s double Oscar victory. Speaking at the function, Balu Mahendra reminisced about the first steps of Rahman into the music world. He recalled that he was the chairman of the jury deciding the National Awards in the year when both Roja and Devar Magan were released. He was in mental turmoil when both the movies were neck to neck when it came to the award for best music. Since he was a very close friend of Ilayaraja, he decided to stay away from the jury because he felt that his friendship might prevent him from making the right decision. But as fate would have it, the ballot by the rest of the jury turned out to be a deadlock and it was up to the chairman to bring in his casting ballot. It was a tough decision to make, but he put his trust in God and cast the vote in favor Rahman, hoping to spur the young man on to greater heights. Today, he said, that his 16 year old decision stood vindicated.

BM was responsible for giving away the National award to Rahman instead of Raaja.
At first I was digusted at the 'Karugaalithanam' of BM... Few seconds later it gives me immense pleasure to understand him - What a noble gesture by Balu Mahendra! he should have known DM was musically superior to Roja (Apart from the friendship with Raaja) and still gave away the award :thumbsup:

...and Raaja had maintained his friendship with BM till date shows the amount of maturity he has and the degree of importance to an award he gives.

This adds on to my respect over Raaja and shows what his fans should take from his life. What I said yesterday is validated now 'Its afterall an award'. So stop whining kids and move on... :)[/tscii:5a0e8ad7a8]

This explains the character of IR as well as BM. I am sure after taking that decision, BM would hv informed IR about it. Has IR or BM opened their mouth about this for last 17 years, never.

Who else is the best person to understand IR other than BM, so what he had done was right in his point of view having known IR for more than 2 decades. (Ofcorse BM was/is well aware that these national awards matter nothing to IR). On the other hand as plum put it optly, any other jury in his place would hv done the opposite, but as it turned out to be BM was/is friend of IR , he decided otherway.

[raagas]

For people like Vyasar, this comes as a view from other side.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=409

A wonderful case of reading in between the lines and completely misinterpreting and deviating from a simple point. I am amazed that so much can be read into a very neutral statement of choosing love over hate. For everything we do, appreciate or denounce, there has to be a religious angle, despite the person in question being non-controversial and peace-loving person (every musician is... not just this guy. everyone who makes music usually seeks peace without hurting religions.even IR). I am sure this writer will not spare even Yesudas, if Yesudas says that he led a peaceful way of life ( this author will then read it as - That means a Non-christian will not lead peaceful way of life, which is like an attack on Hindus... How mean!! ). So instead of Love/hate dialogue, he should have said Vandemataram.Ya,it is immaterial if he said/sang vandemataram 1000 times in many places, but the author has a problem with he not saying vandemataram there! what next? Maniratnam was not thanked there?

raja-fan, honestly speaking, i felt that the author thought far too much into simple things and tried to take out something unintended.

And Really sad that there are perspectives like these too. No wonder, Indians enjoy blame-game, when it comes to religion, which infact is or rather should be very personal to everyone. and does the author know atleast that the person he was talking about did compose some beautiful 'Hindu' bhajans (or say Hinduism filled songs). How can someone do that if he Hated it?

anyways, this post itself is irrelevant here. My reply even more is.But just couldnt help responding, looking at the mind of the author and the thoughts he put across.

[nanchil_guy]

(every musician is... not just this guy. everyone who makes music usually seeks peace without hurting religions.even IR).

Sorry man, i couldnt help it!!

[crajkumar_be]

"1) During Heyram interview , he mentioned that this is the first time it has happened in indian film industry and he is the pioneer for it . "
Enakku therinju, he used the phrase "Enakku therinju" before saying this. Illainaalu, this might well be a statement of fact.
Adhula maatru karuthu irukkadhu nu nenaikkaren :) (No two ways about it)

The operating keywords are "oblivious to recognition, fame, publicity" etc...

[krish244]

Looks like Gulzar had nice time experimenting with words while working with IR for the movie "SRK":

http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/2009/02/25/12583/

Bad that there is no news of the audio/movie release!

thanks,

Krishnan

[Plum]

CR, ok, andha interview paarkama naan pesaradhu thappu. But since I am discussing with you, and we know that we have not marked our positions and sticking to it come what may, I want to understand this further:
1) Avaru, "naan ipdi ellam pandren, ennai yaarum recongize pannalai" apdingara maadhiri pesinara?
2) Illaina, "naan ipdi ellam panninaen. Ipdi vera endha payalayavadhu panni kaatta sollunga paarpom" apdindra maadhiri pesinara?
3)Or, was it plain "Naan ipdi ellam panninaen. Enakku therinju idukku munnadi yaarum ipdi pannalai" apdi sonnara?
4)Or was it "Naan ipdi ellam panninaen. Nichayama, idukku munnadi yaarum ipdi pannalai." apdi sonnara?

[crajkumar_be]

Plum,
Adhu avara thaan kekkanum :lol:

Enakku purinjavaraikkum, i don't think it is (1)!

Bottom line, do you get what i mean and why i mentioned about the interviews here?

[Plum]

CR, I am asking if the exact words he used were along the lines of 1,2,3 or 4. If it is not 1, then we dont have conclusive proof that he is after recognition, awards etc. Personally, from what I remember from that interview(I notoriosuly dont watch stuff at youtube- my already soda bottle kannadi eyes will only get worse), it is either 3 or 4.
If it is 3, then he passes all tests of "not wanting publicity, recognition".
If it is 4, "Konjam overconfidence"-nu sollalam. Avlo dhaan.

[raja_fan]

Plum, it was (4)

[raja_fan]

His words as I remember was this "idhukku apparam indha maadhiri matthavanga pannalaam..aanaal idhu madhiri adhu varaadhu. yen naa idhu thaan indhiyaavil mudhal thadavai.."

[Plum]

ok, overconfidence. But paarunga, this supports the "not caring about recognition etc" theory. Because he is convinced that he has done something unthinkable for others, which means he knows or believes what/where he is. I dont think he is waiting for others to accept it - kavaliaye padama sollitare, naan inge mele irukken, inime dhaan oruthan vandhu inge vara mudiyum"-nu. Idhukkappuram, yaaru recognize panni, he is going to feel happy? Neenga dhaan best-na "oh adhaan enakku theriyume"-nuttu poyitte iruppar pola :-)
No, just kidding - to accept or crave an award, you must respect the giver of that award. Ippo Padma awardsngaradhu yaaru epdi kudukkarangandradhu ellorukkum theriyadhu. MSV-ku kudukkadha award-a Raja madhikka povadhillai. National Award for best music in a film, in my eyes, has value. Despite some bad cases(Annamaiya instead of GURU, Roja instead of DM, Some stupid bolly movie instead of Hey Ram), mostly it has gone to deserving efforts. But oru Sudhir Mishra head pandra committee-la, Malathi Rangarajan member-a irukkara committee award kuduthaa adhai IR madhipparangaradhu doubt dhaan. This is another reason awards will not carry as much significance to people like IR.

[viraajan]

[tscii]



As expected, the actual purpose of the event was rather eclipsed by the joy that was brought by Rahman’s double Oscar victory. Speaking at the function, Balu Mahendra reminisced about the first steps of Rahman into the music world. He recalled that he was the chairman of the jury deciding the National Awards in the year when both Roja and Devar Magan were released. He was in mental turmoil when both the movies were neck to neck when it came to the award for best music. Since he was a very close friend of Ilayaraja, he decided to stay away from the jury because he felt that his friendship might prevent him from making the right decision. But as fate would have it, the ballot by the rest of the jury turned out to be a deadlock and it was up to the chairman to bring in his casting ballot. It was a tough decision to make, but he put his trust in God and cast the vote in favor Rahman, hoping to spur the young man on to greater heights. Today, he said, that his 16 year old decision stood vindicated.

This explains the character of IR as well as BM. I am sure after taking that decision, BM would hv informed IR about it. Has IR or BM opened their mouth about this for last 17 years, never.

Who else is the best person to understand IR other than BM, so what he had done was right in his point of view having known IR for more than 2 decades. (Ofcorse BM was/is well aware that these national awards matter nothing to IR). On the other hand as plum put it optly, any other jury in his place would hv done the opposite, but as it turned out to be BM was/is friend of IR , he decided otherway.

Well Said...

Shocking news really... BM's gesture is truly laudable.... :clap: :bow:

[pure bliss]

rajasaranam,

intha news ir ku ippathan theriyuma appave therichirukuma?

Anyways antha sify headline is the best way to put things in perspective. Everyone wants a piece of ARR including ir fans here rightly or wrongly



[tscii:2798194610]This is really shocking :shock:
http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news-1/feb-09-04/indravizha-25-02-09.html


As expected, the actual purpose of the event was rather eclipsed by the joy that was brought by Rahman’s double Oscar victory. Speaking at the function, Balu Mahendra reminisced about the first steps of Rahman into the music world. He recalled that he was the chairman of the jury deciding the National Awards in the year when both Roja and Devar Magan were released. He was in mental turmoil when both the movies were neck to neck when it came to the award for best music. Since he was a very close friend of Ilayaraja, he decided to stay away from the jury because he felt that his friendship might prevent him from making the right decision. But as fate would have it, the ballot by the rest of the jury turned out to be a deadlock and it was up to the chairman to bring in his casting ballot. It was a tough decision to make, but he put his trust in God and cast the vote in favor Rahman, hoping to spur the young man on to greater heights. Today, he said, that his 16 year old decision stood vindicated.

BM was responsible for giving away the National award to Rahman instead of Raaja.
At first I was digusted at the 'Karugaalithanam' of BM... Few seconds later it gives me immense pleasure to understand him - What a noble gesture by Balu Mahendra! he should have known DM was musically superior to Roja (Apart from the friendship with Raaja) and still gave away the award :thumbsup:

...and Raaja had maintained his friendship with BM till date shows the amount of maturity he has and the degree of importance to an award he gives.

This adds on to my respect over Raaja and shows what his fans should take from his life. What I said yesterday is validated now 'Its afterall an award'. So stop whining kids and move on... :)[/tscii:2798194610]

[raja_fan]

Anyways, the function that is arranged now to felicitate Rahman is very special in one way.

Because it is going to have IR, KB and ARR together.

IR - the man who rejected a gang of film faternity.

KB - the leader of the faternity who avenged the rejection by introducing ARR.

ARR - a strong weapon to be used by IR avengers gang.


Very interesting !

The beauty is the weapon and the attacked are still shining ! But the attackers lost their place :)

[raja_fan]

'Pa' shooting begins in March

http://businessofcinema.com/news.php?newsid=12139

[raagas]

raja_fan,

interesting observation :)

i dont think there were many attackers in first place. It was only KB. Maniratnam HAD to take new composer only because Kavithalaya produced Roja and mani did not have any option. and it was KB's luck that he found the weapon.ofcourse, as you said, he doesnt have any good movies offlate.

[Fliflo]

http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/Hotnews/2009/February/250209a.asp

read IR's reaction.

அதனால, இங்கு போர்க்களம் வேண்டாம்பா, சாமி! தாங்கல

[irir123]

fliflo - can you post the contents here - my firewall doesnt allow that site to be opened! - thx

[app_engine]

Q : Why should BM talk about Roja v/s DM NOW?

Bad timing!

[irir123]

http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/2009/02/25/12583/

Says Balki, "He did the music for my Cheeni Kum, and now Pa. For me there can be no cinema without Ilaiyaraja."

[ananth222]

http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/2009/02/25/12583/

Gulzar Saab says, "His aptitude and skills for creating the perfect harmony have not altered at all. Ilaiyaraja is one of his kind. I wish he was heard more often in Hindi cinema." :thumbsup:

[Fliflo]

மணிரத்னத்தின் பெயர் இல்லையே?
ரஹ்மானின் விழாவும், விளக்கமும்!


டபுள் ஆஸ்கர் வென்று இம்மாதம் சென்னை திரும்பும் ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மானுக்கு மார்ச் 1 ந் தேதி திரை இசைக்கலைஞர்கள் சங்கம் சார்பாக பாராட்டு விழா நடைபெற இருக்கிறது. இந்த சங்கத்திற்கு சொந்தமான அரங்கத்தில் நடைபெறும் இந்த நிகழ்ச்சிதான் ஆஸ்கருக்கு பிறகு இசைப்புயலுக்கு நடைபெறவிருக்கும் முதல் பாராட்டுவிழா. 2 கிலோ எடையுள்ள வெள்ளியில், உலக உருண்டை ஒன்றை இரண்டு கைகள் ஏந்தியிருப்பது போன்ற நினைவு பரிசை ரஹ்மானுக்கு வழங்கப் போகிறது இந்த சங்கம்.

முக்கிய செய்தி என்னவென்றால் கர்நாடக இசை மேதை பாலமுரளி கிருஷ்ணா, மெல்லிசை மன்னர் எம்.எஸ்.விஸ்வநாதன், இவர்களோடு இசைஞானி இளையராஜாவும் கலந்து கொள்கிறார் இந்த நிகழ்ச்சியில். ரஹ்மானை முதலில் இசையமைப்பாளராக அறிமுகப்படுத்திய மணிரத்னத்தின் பெயர் அழைப்பிதழில் இல்லையே என்ற கேள்வியோடு சங்கத்தின் தலைவரும், இசையமைப்பாளருமான எஸ்.ஏ.ராஜ்குமாரை சந்தித்தோம்.

'திரை இசைக்கலைஞர்கள் சங்கம் ஏற்பாடு செய்கிற விழா இது. தாய் வீட்டின் சார்பில், உலகத்தை வென்று வந்திருக்கும் எங்கள் குழந்தைக்கு நடத்துகிற பாராட்டு விழா இது. அதனால்தான் இசைக்கலைஞர்களையும், இசை அறிஞர்களையும் இந்த விழாவில் முன்னிலை படுத்துகிறோம். மணிரத்னத்திற்கு அழைப்பிதழ் அனுப்பியிருக்கிறோம். நிச்சயம் இந்த விழாவில் அவரும் கலந்து கொள்வார்' என்றார்.

கோல்டன் குளோப் விருது கிடைத்தவுடனேயே ரஹ்மானை சந்தித்து இந்த விழாவுக்கான தேதியை வாங்கினார்களாம். அதற்கு பிறகுதான் அவருக்கு ஆஸ்கர் கிடைத்தது. இந்த விழாவில் கலந்து கொள்ள இசைஞானியை அழைத்த போது, முகமெல்லாம் மலர்ச்சியோடு 'வருகிறேன்' என்று சம்மதித்தார். ரஹ்மானின் இந்த சாதனை எங்களுக்கெல்லாம் பெருமை என்றார் கொள்ளாத சந்தோஷத்துடன்!

-மனஸ்வினி

[popeye11]

For people like Vyasar, this comes as a view from other side.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=409

Idhellam oru article nu inga post panningale raja_fan.. edho rahman speechla or thesis senja nenapula the author has posted some junk.. idhellam ippa theviya..

Indian Music ku kedacha vetri and recognition nu celeberate pannama why bring religion into this..

[MrJudge]

Q : Why should BM talk about Roja v/s DM NOW?

Bad timing!

ippavAvathu poonai veLiyE vanthathE :evil: I am mad at BM but even more mad at the voting system to select the winner. committee-la 15 perAm, ellOraiyum vottu pOda vittutu eppadi vottu vizhunthirukkunnu pAththutu avaru kadaisiyA pOttAram. adap pAvingala, ithula most prestigious award in Indiannu tag vEra. This is pathetic to the core.

[crajkumar_be]

For people like Vyasar, this comes as a view from other side.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=409

Idhellam oru article nu inga post panningale raja_fan.. edho rahman speechla or thesis senja nenapula the author has posted some junk.. idhellam ippa theviya..

Indian Music ku kedacha vetri and recognition nu celeberate pannama why bring religion into this..
This is not the first time raja_fan is posting extreme right-wing Hindutva stuff...

[svbp007]

http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/Hotnews/2009/February/250209a.asp

read IR's reaction.

அதனால, இங்கு போர்க்களம் வேண்டாம்பா, சாமி! தாங்கல


Canyou please let us know what he said?

[NormalMan]

raja_fan --> Any new exciting albums from IR in the cooking? You seem to be closer to the sources.

[krish244]

A new singer named Krishna has sung for IR. I think it should be in Hindi.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Home+grown+hero&artid=c8|lX8zcTIQ=&SectionID=mvKkT3vj5ZA=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=nUFeEOBkuKw=&SEO=

thanks,

Krishnan

[svbp007]

Dear freinds,

It seems that we do all conversations in all threads. I really hope that everybody posts all tidbits and other 'back and forth' arguments in the Tidbits or other thread and keep the new albums to discuss only new albums.

This is the kind of discipline in 'form' ...not just content that is important as well. I really look forward to these forums as the IR Yahoogroup is only very limited ....but when I see how we scatter ourselves here...it seems disorganized.

[Fliflo]

Apparently Raja is doing 4 Hindi movies now. Does anybody know what they are

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/specials/2009/03/01-no-indian-cinema-without-maestro-ilayaraaja.html

[krish244]

Apparently Raja is doing 4 Hindi movies now. Does anybody know what they are

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies/specials/2009/03/01-no-indian-cinema-without-maestro-ilayaraaja.html

The more the new of IR and Gulzar working together spreads, the more different form (and/or additions) the news takes. One news says IR and Gulzar working for SRK with Ajoy as directory (this is true). this one says Ajay is producing :) and there is another link which says IR and Gulzar uniting for a movie based on Ravi Varma's art :). I really doubt Balki saying IR is working on 4 hindi movies. All web sites want to add something new. If its true, I will be happy (provided the audio/movie releases too :) ).

Anyway, as far as I know, IR is working on PA, CHALE CHAL, SRK. What are the other ones in hindi?

thanks,

Krishnan

[raagas]

There is no Hindi IR movie about Ravi Varma's art. Someone got confused, because Gulzar mentioned that just when Ajoy Varma is planning to release his film SRK, another movie based on Raja Ravi Varma is being released, the coincidence being Ajoy Varma is the grandson of Ravi Varma.

IR's hindi films are only SRK and Chal Chale, for now.

Balki's Pa is yet to begin shooting. So, it will take long time for the audio, because i dont think they even recorded the music. Balki only confirmed that IR would do the music. Thats all.

[krish244]

Yes Raagas, I know that there is no movie about Ravi Varma's art. I was just mentioning how these websites misunderstand a news item and/or purposefully elongate (or add masala) a given news item.

thanks,

Krishnan

[NormalMan]

Who is the MD for Thailaian Irukiraan?? (A Wednesday remake)

[MumbaiRamki]

Who is the MD for Thailaian Irukiraan?? (A Wednesday remake)

even if its raaj kamal internationals , music wont be my illayaraaja

[MrJudge]

Who is the MD for Thailaian Irukiraan?? (A Wednesday remake)

I hope Raaja won't be part of his movies anymore :D

[Plum]

Wednesday remake is by shruti hasan. Now, who is she a fan of? :-)

[eagle]

Wednesday remake is by shruti hasan. Now, who is she a fan of? :-)
To kamal association raaja has already become a thing of past. here's the man once declared to no Rajkamal banner movie would be released without the music of raaja. You cant blame him either, in the past he used to cite commercial compulsions... now Rahamn had won oscars he is sure like to work with him as that will enable him to realize his own oscar dreams...

[crajkumar_be]

Wednesday remake is by shruti hasan. Now, who is she a fan of? :-)
To kamal association raaja has already become a thing of past. here's the man once declared to no Rajkamal banner movie would be released without the music of raaja. You cant blame him either, in the past he used to cite commercial compulsions... now Rahamn had won oscars he is sure like to work with him as that will enable him to realize his own oscar dreams...
Eagle,
Kamal-Rahman association started with Dasavatharam itself (project started in 2006) but Rahman couldn't accommodate enough days for the film. Marmayogi was announced last year - 2008. 19th Step (Bharat Bala direction, Walt Disney productions) was announced last year - 2008. Academy Awards were given on Feb 22,Even GG, BAFTA were given this year - 2009.

India got independence in 1947. We are in 2009 now. ok-va? :)

Makkale,
Can we stop the customary Kamal-bashing and talk about Ilaiyaraaja instead? A humble request...

[raagas]

I dont think Kamal was insistent about IR in every production of his. Nammavar and Kuruthipunal did not have music by IR.

[equanimus]

Raagas,
Raajkamal Films didn't produce 'nammavar.' Off the top of my head, Raaja didn't score the music for 3 Raajkamal films. 'kuruthippunal', 'chaachi 420' and 'naLa dhamayanthi.'

[kameshratnam]

I am sure if Raaja had scored for dasavatharam..the film cud have reached more heights...

[kham]

Wednesday remake is by shruti hasan. Now, who is she a fan of? :-)
To kamal association raaja has already become a thing of past. here's the man once declared to no Rajkamal banner movie would be released without the music of raaja. You cant blame him either, in the past he used to cite commercial compulsions... now Rahamn had won oscars he is sure like to work with him as that will enable him to realize his own oscar dreams...
Eagle,
Kamal-Rahman association started with Dasavatharam itself (project started in 2006) but Rahman couldn't accommodate enough days for the film. Marmayogi was announced last year - 2008. 19th Step (Bharat Bala direction, Walt Disney productions) was announced last year - 2008. Academy Awards were given on Feb 22,Even GG, BAFTA were given this year - 2009.

India got independence in 1947. We are in 2009 now. ok-va? :)

Makkale,
Can we stop the customary Kamal-bashing and talk about Ilaiyaraaja instead? A humble request...

N Thabela's new tele serial Vadakkathi ponnu on 2010 ok-va? :)

[irir123]

Commercial reasons or otherwise, Kamal or anyone else for that matter have a right to choose to work with whoever they might want to - if IR chose not to be ambitious enough to work for an Oscar-level recognition, while someone else did it and if I were a star with bigtime ambitions, I would rather go for that someone else - as a matter of principle, it might sound offkey, but Indian cinema has not reached the levels of maturity that would merit levels of professional integrity that one often sees elsewhere - Herrmann's scores for Hitchcock, Morricone's scores for Leone, Mancini's scores for Edwards and Williams' scores for Speilberg - these are all perfect examples and ok, because they had bigtime production houses to consistently back them. Kamal has already lost/burnt his fingers with a brilliant Hey Ram (it had all the ingredients of becoming one of the alltime greats, but simply turned turtle) and an absolute disaster Alavandhaan (a perfect 'dhrishti suzhi' in Kamal's career in every manner imaginable - the only thing that Kamal got out of this film were an extra 15 pounds which refuse to go away!) - whether he is producing or someone else is doing it, at this juncture in his career, i dont see whats wrong on his part to work with someone who is 'THE'composer who can deliver a product that is more than just 'commercially' viable

My cents - further, if IR ends up releasing his symphony or any of his orchestral works, and ends up becoming popular and globally recognised, will he say Yes to work with future Kamal projects if approached ? thats a billion dollar question for which i dont have an answer!

[eagle]

Wednesday remake is by shruti hasan. Now, who is she a fan of? :-)
To kamal association raaja has already become a thing of past. here's the man once declared to no Rajkamal banner movie would be released without the music of raaja. You cant blame him either, in the past he used to cite commercial compulsions... now Rahamn had won oscars he is sure like to work with him as that will enable him to realize his own oscar dreams...
Eagle,
Kamal-Rahman association started with Dasavatharam itself (project started in 2006) but Rahman couldn't accommodate enough days for the film. Marmayogi was announced last year - 2008. 19th Step (Bharat Bala direction, Walt Disney productions) was announced last year - 2008. Academy Awards were given on Feb 22,Even GG, BAFTA were given this year - 2009.

India got independence in 1947. We are in 2009 now. ok-va? :)

Makkale,
Can we stop the customary Kamal-bashing and talk about Ilaiyaraaja instead? A humble request...

crajkumar_be,
Thanks for timeline you provided without which i simply cant manage. Let me make one thing clear my post was not against kamal anyway.

It was kamal's statement about atleast having raaja in his home productions if not in all his movies even before Rahman made entry to films.

So dont try to be too smart ok va. 8-)

One more thing the relationship between kamal - IR or Rajini - IR is beyond the commercial aspect which time and again they proved it.
Instead of spending time on reeling out the statistics i wish you read the post properly.

[eagle]

if IR ends up releasing his symphony or any of his orchestral works, and ends up becoming popular and globally recognised, will he say Yes to work with future Kamal projects if approached ? thats a billion dollar question for which i dont have an answer!

He will work for sure. Kamal knows how to get the things done from IR if the past is any kind of indication... who would have scored for a movie which another composer already completed and left...

[ARUNPRAKASHKRISHNAN]

since itis nice to see raaja praising arr and viceversa,i think now arr will ask raaja to compose a symphony using his km conservatory artistes in another 5 years so that we all can listen to raaja's symphony in 2015!!!

[jaiganes]

Raagas,
Raajkamal Films didn't produce 'nammavar.' Off the top of my head, Raaja didn't score the music for 3 Raajkamal films. 'kuruthippunal', 'chaachi 420' and 'naLa dhamayanthi.'

Add Pushpak to it. Pushpak was done by V.L.Narasimhan.
Infact long time associate of Raaja - Balumahendra too had to forego Raaja in Sandhya Raagam which was again done by V.L.Narasimhan.
I guess both cases, the movie's budget was too small to accomodate full sized Raaja sound (then).
Now the reason why Raja is not a part of Kamal or Balu movie (if) it should be read only that the subject is light and doesn't require Raaja.
My friend who is a dir told me that now the trend is - if the story is heavy and requires some uplifting - enunciation through music - the director doesnt think twice before heading towards Prasad studio.

[app_engine]

My friend who is a dir told me that now the trend is - if the story is heavy and requires some uplifting - enunciation through music - the director doesnt think twice before heading towards Prasad studio.

Small question - how do they find out whether the story is "heavy" or "light"? :-)

[eagle]

My friend who is a dir told me that now the trend is - if the story is heavy and requires some uplifting - enunciation through music - the director doesnt think twice before heading towards Prasad studio.

Small question - how do they find out whether the story is "heavy" or "light"? :-)

May be by the weight of paper!!! (Remember the scene from "vellithirai" How tough it was for prakash raj to xerox the story cos it was a heavy story :lol: )

[equanimus]

Add Pushpak to it. Pushpak was done by V.L.Narasimhan.
Infact long time associate of Raaja - Balumahendra too had to forego Raaja in Sandhya Raagam which was again done by V.L.Narasimhan.
Jaiganes,
'Pushpak' was not produced by Kamal. It was originally produced by Mandakini Chitra Pvt. Ltd. and then released in various languages (!). And L Vaidyanathan scored the music for the film. Not V S Narasimhan. L Vaidyanathan did the score for 'sandhyA rAgam' as well.

[venkkiram]

மகேஷ் என்பவர் நன்றாக (விளம்பர படங்களில்) இசை அமைக்கிறார், அவரை நம்மவருக்கு அணுகிப்பாருங்களேன் என ராஜாவே கமலிடம் யோசனை தெரிவித்ததாக ஒரு முறை கமல் பேட்டியொன்றில் சொன்னதாக ஞாபகம்.

ஒரு முறை ராஜாவிடம் "காலத்தால் அழிக்க முடியாத பாடல்களை கொண்ட படங்களில் நடித்த கமல், ரஜினி போன்றோர் தற்போது ஏன் உங்கள் இசையில் படம் செய்வதில்லை" எனக் கேட்டபோது, "இந்தக் கேள்வியை என்னிடம் கேட்பதற்கு பதில் அவர்களிடமே கேளுங்களேன்" என பதில் அளித்தார். இந்தப் பேட்டி ஆ.விகடனில் பல வருடங்களுக்கு முன்பு வாசித்ததாக ஞாபகம்.

மாற்றங்கள் வருவது இயல்பு. நல்ல பல பாடல்களை எம்.எஸ்.வி கொடுத்திருந்தும், ராஜாவை ஸ்ரீதர் தேர்ந்தெடுத்ததை விடவா ஒரு மாற்றம் இருக்கமுடியும்?

[jaiganes]

Add Pushpak to it. Pushpak was done by V.L.Narasimhan.
Infact long time associate of Raaja - Balumahendra too had to forego Raaja in Sandhya Raagam which was again done by V.L.Narasimhan.
Jaiganes,
'Pushpak' was not produced by Kamal. It was originally produced by Mandakini Chitra Pvt. Ltd. and then released in various languages (!). And L Vaidyanathan scored the music for the film. Not V S Narasimhan. L Vaidyanathan did the score for 'sandhyA rAgam' as well.

my bad.
sorry for factual inaccuracies- but the point is that Raaja has not been hogging on his friends to cast him as MD in every one of their films.

[crajkumar_be]

To kamal association raaja has already become a thing of past. here's the man once declared to no Rajkamal banner movie would be released without the music of raaja. You cant blame him either, in the past he used to cite commercial compulsions... now Rahamn had won oscars he is sure like to work with him as that will enable him to realize his own oscar dreams...




crajkumar_be,
Thanks for timeline you provided without which i simply cant manage. Let me make one thing clear my post was not against kamal anyway.

It was kamal's statement about atleast having raaja in his home productions if not in all his movies even before Rahman made entry to films.

So dont try to be too smart ok va. 8-)

One more thing the relationship between kamal - IR or Rajini - IR is beyond the commercial aspect which time and again they proved it.
Instead of spending time on reeling out the statistics i wish you read the post properly.

Eagle,
The reply is well deserved for the bolded part of your post.
"Acting smart' ellam illai :)

[ARUNPRAKASHKRISHNAN]

pushpak composer is l vaidyanathan

[jaiganes]

yup - but my point is diferent - it is not as if every monumental piece of Kamal or Balu has Raaja behind it even in the days he was numero uno. So please stop attributing motives behind such things when there exists none.

[Plum]

Balu Mahendra - Azhiyaadha Kolangal was with Salilda. Kokila in Kannada wasnt IR. He even did Keeravani in Telugu, if I am not wrong.
Kamal also similarly. IR has done hundreds of films without Kamal, btw :-)

Betrayal is something IR/Kamal have to worry about, they are the friends not us - idhellam..well..how to put it..sappa matter - let's not break our heads over it

[equanimus]

but the point is that Raaja has not been hogging on his friends to cast him as MD in every one of their films.
Of course I completely agree, Jaiganes. I've said this here before too, these sort of accusations directed at people who cherish their association with Raaja just because they also work with other composers on and off, not only disparage these filmmakers but Raaja even more so, as the implicit assumption is that Raaja can't ever help but feel wronged about the "breaks" in their association.

[jaiganes]

What I observe is this..
Raaja wants to reinvent himself by working with new and young creators who approach him with some good (what I would call heavy - your heart should feel heavy when Raaja applies that cello) subjects. It is his way of staying young. In this process he takes a lot of risks and a reason why projects like Dhanam, Konji pesalam and ponmegalai happen. While we fans lament the fate of those projects, I still remember a discussion with my friend on seeing the poster of 'Akilan' directed by some new guy 'Bala' with raja's music - what happened later is a stuff of legends. It is his approach though inexplicable and leading to a waste of musical genius (perceived by some among us) is what has opened doors for new musical voices to emanate from Raja post 2000. It might not yield uniformly great results - but it sure has left a doorway open for something great to happen. Many a young talent still dreams of one film with IR and his 'Ayya voodu thorandhu dhaan kedakku' (open door policy to any newcomer) policy - strange as it many seem to many has its share of pleasant merits.

[ramk1]

Looks like Raja and family has accepted that somebody else has taken the mantle and they've been reduced to one among the crowd. Time is brutal when it comes a full circle. If only IR was a bit down to earth and more accomodative.

[irir123]

Looks like Raja and family has accepted that somebody else has taken the mantle and they've been reduced to one among the crowd. Time is brutal when it comes a full circle. If only IR was a bit down to earth and more accomodative.

So IR and family attended the ARR felicitation function and by doing so, have become one among the crowd ?? what kind of logic is that can you please explain ?

[jaiganes]

@ramk1 - There is a big line - neenga konjam vysar anna kitte token vaangittu vaanga.

[eagle]

If only IR was a bit down to earth and more accomodative.

Whats your alternative version of history had IR been more accommodative ?

1. Rahman entry could have been delayed few more years had he been accommodative with Mani.

2. He could have scored more movies may be another 100....

3. All the leading directors would be working with him till now.

Tell me, does any of the above said points makes him a lesser composer than he actually is?

He still stands tall above anyone...A legend in his lifetime with millions of fans are not overtly worried about his accommodative spirit...

[Plum]

"@ramk1 - There is a big line - neenga konjam vysar anna kitte token vaangittu vaanga."
:-)

[raja_fan]

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/009200903051121.htm

[rajaalltheway]

Looks like Raja and family has accepted that somebody else has taken the mantle and they've been reduced to one among the crowd. Time is brutal when it comes a full circle. If only IR was a bit down to earth and more accomodative.
As a very fortunate guy who got the chance of hovering around Prasad studios for many years I have many a times wished this man played down his modesty earthiness and act a bit tough when people simply walked away,expoliting his humility like water from the public tap.Everyone from Rajni,kamal to Ramki and Saravanan were given treaure trows of music..sometimes free of cost..even while working on 15 projects simultaneously in 4 languages.Few years ago a man came and asked Kalyanam sir for an appointment with Ayya..he was planning a movie named MAAMIYAR VEEDU.Inside the studio discussions on Suresh Productions new telugu movie directed by B.Gopal were going on.The future producer was not allowed inside by Kalyanam sir.A week later i saw Saravanan and a few others,all dressed up for Maamiyar Veedu recording.When I asked Kalyanam sir he gave me a wry smile and said 'as usual the producer shed a few tears and now the recording expenditure is in Raajas account'.If Ayya went on doing what a normal music director would have done a collabration between Indias most prolific and internationally acclaimed director after SJ Ray,the great Adoor Gopalakrishnan wouldnt have happened...instead hed be sitting near the harmonium trying to cope with demands for Mayya Mayya and Ulaga Nayakane..

[Plum]

rajaalltheway - thanks for sharing that. Inge pala peru, humilityku oru textbook definition vechirukainga. MCC coaching manual maadhiri. MCC Coaching manual padi paartha Sehwag-ellam batsman-e kidaiyadhu. Adhu maadhiri dhaan IR is arrogant-nuradhum. Manidhar unarndhu kolla....

[irir123]

rajaalltheway - pls check ur PM pls

[jaiganes]

Maamiyaar veedu had awesome BGMs- saravanan and selva - it was a gritty story about two convicts trying to recover from a life of crime with fatal results. The movie If I am right was directed by the same guy who directed Chinna thaayyee - that was another unnoticed good movie of the time.

[ramk1]

Guys - thanks for ur responses. Having followed IR related news and his career for so long, i simply cudn't digest him standing at a place where he shud've been the main focus of. The world shud've given a standing ovation to the intricacies in his music. If that has happened i wud've simply been pleased. Ok regardless of the oscars or any other award, if he had raised his musical output in the non-filmy area as he did during the early 90's i wud've been happier. I know many of us IR fan's are going to differ with me, but my anguish is something which u all inherently have. There is no denying in that.

[krish244]

[tscii:577bc5baf1]Gulzar's interview for Screen:

http://www.screenindia.com/news/full-circle/430313/

Quoting the portion where he mentions IR:

"Trends and times, as you rightly say, dictate even innovation.
True. Pancham then could not break the mukhda-antara structure, but he weaved in the Bengali tradition - sanchaari - by adding verses in-between in place of interludes in some songs. For a children’s song in my Kitaab, Pancham had even played on tables of different heights instead of the tabla. Similarly the way Rahman uses the sarod or the guitar is so different from the way others use them.

But having said that, and with all due respect to Rahman, there are other music directors today who are also hugely talented, like Vishal Bhardwaj, with whom I am doing completely different music scores in Kaminay and Ishqiya and Shankar-Ehsaan-Loy. Then there is Ilayaraja, with whom I had a great time reuniting 25 years after Sadma in the forthcoming film SRK. "

thanks,

Krishnan[/tscii:577bc5baf1]

[Fliflo]

Wonderful Photo gallery

http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/GALLERY/functions/FelicatesARRahman/photosxml.aspx

[baroque]

THEY ARE ALL WONDERFUL. VERY HAPPY.
:ty:

[jaiganes]

good to see all three brahmas of Thamizh film music. - chance A illai.

[raja_fan]

Ilayaraja in Amir's Kannapiran !! :D

http://www.koodal.com/tamil/movies/hotnews/972/ilayaraja-in-kannapiran

[cry_sandiego]

Cheers
MSK

[eagle]

what happened to the highly active thread "attack on ilayaraaja cos arr got oscar..." all of a sudden its gone...any reason? :?

[crajkumar_be]

what happened to the highly active thread "attack on ilayaraaja cos arr got oscar..." all of a sudden its gone...any reason? :?
adhaane? enna aachu? :(

[Plum]

CR, theriyalai. I saw a post by you quoting Rahman's "dholak and harmonium" statement. Pala maasama, IR character-ai kevalam ezhudhina post pottappo ellam, thread bathirama irundhudhu. Rahman-oda quote which shows him in slightly negative light(not in my eyes, I can understand where he is coming from in that quote - but in the eyes of "humility fanatics") potta vudane, the thread is gayab, hoithu, poye poche :-)

[Sanjeevi]

Mods

Why did you remove the "attack" thread?

[jaiganes]

@sanjeevi and others - freeya vidunga
IR, ARR and MSV made that thread completely irrelevant - they simply showed the world that when it comes to music they are all the sruthis and swaras making upt he music world - comparing one versus the other and trying to politicise is the work of shameful slanders who must be holding themselves in shame after the felicitation event.

[raagas]

new albums...new albums...new albums...

I am dying to listen to new albums... Any news!!!!!

[jaiganes]

pazhassi raja should be on its way...
SRK also must be having a musical release soon.
I somehow have a feeling that a non-film album is on the cards.. something minimalistic and carnatic...

[raagas]

I somehow have a feeling that a non-film album is on the cards.. something minimalistic and carnatic...

Let your mouth be filled with sweets and sugar :)

touchwood!

[krish244]

SRK also must be having a musical release soon.

Any link confirming the same? Or, you are saying/hoping this because of the recent IR-Gulzar news items that popped up recently? But yes, even I wish for the quick release of SRK audio, especially since its IR-Gulzar combo.


I somehow have a feeling that a non-film album is on the cards.. something minimalistic and carnatic...

Have I missed something in the forum? I mean, there was not even a rumor about this in the forum. So, I am wondering.

thanks,

Krishnan

[Sanjeevi]

What about mayilu?

some time back I saw an advt.

[irir123]

[tscii:1a83c2eee9]PAY DIRT!! renowned Los Angeles based journal FILM SCORE MONTHLY reviews and profiles Maestro.Ilaiyaraaja's music!!!

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/6175/An-"Unknown"-Indian-Film-Music-master/

Highlight: "It is quite clear that Ilaiyaraaja’s respect is well-warranted. His music is immediately engaging, with a popular sensibility that gives way to detailed construction upon further exploration. Working with a variety of synthetic production, live orchestra, and fabulous singers and Indian music instrumentalists lends the music a unique quality that one discovers is part of the style of this composer. Here is someone who has discovered a way to fuse musics from multiple periods both East and West to create a sound that serves each subsequent film. There is much of the composer’s music to be explored and even with the language barrier that ultimately exists, the music is immediately communicative and often entrancing."

Hip Hip Hurray![/tscii:1a83c2eee9]

[krish244]

New Hindi movie by IR. I think its titled "Arjun" (produced by UTV). Lyrics by Piyush Mishra (who composed music for "Gulaal")

http://www.screenindia.com/news/i-keep-stealing-experiences/433294/ (go to the last question)


thanks,

Krishnan

[krish244]

Looks like "Arjun" is an animated movie based on mythological character Arjun.

http://www.utvnet.com/mp_production.htm

check forthcoming releases link

"Indian Domestic Animated Features:

"Arjun" - a two-part story movie on an Indian mythological warrior prince of the same name has already gone into production. The first of the 2 action adventure films is expected to release in 2009 and is being directed by ex-Turner Creative Director - Arnab Chaudhari."

Taken from the below IndiaGlitz link:

http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/hindi/article/35291.html

One another link:

http://www.animationxpress.com/anex/y2k8/headlines/anex2835.htm

thanks,

Krishnan

[Sureshs65]

The second part of this article talks about Raja recording a song written by Yograj Bhat, of 'Mungaru Male' fame, for a film to be directed by Chaitanya, the director of 'Aa Dinagalu'. Hope this comes out soon. (There was supposed to another film, 'Nannavanu' I think was the name, which was supposed to be released but no news of it yet. )

[Sureshs65]

I forgot to give the link. Here it is

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/03/13/stories/2009031351590400.htm

[baroque]

I forgot to give the link. Here it is

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/03/13/stories/2009031351590400.htm

:bluejump: :redjump: wonderful news to read (woke up with allergies - headache,glad I checked this thread :) )
aa dingalu prati skhna, hrudaya.... VIJAY YESUDAS is a beauty.
I keep this composition closer to my heart as naguva nayana madhura ...pallavi Anupallavi. :musicsmile:
way to go Chaitanya , aa Dinagalu is a fine work. :ty:
No excessive bloodshed or gruesome scenes. very thrilling, kept my attention , youngsters with potential. Ashish Vidhyarthi(Ghill, Baazi) and Atul Kulkarni(Run, Hey Ram) are always impressive. (I always love calm villans like our Late Raghuvaran.) Sharath Lohitashwa as Kothwal is FANTASTIC.

Hope Ilayaraaja churns out a female solo like YAARI GAAGI... (neram nalla...)for Chaitnaya in this new album! What a stunner by Janaki, I was enjoying while driving this evening. I am in love with that funky IR.:swinghead: VINATHA.

[app_engine]

I remember reading that IR is doing this movie :
http://sify.com/movies/malayalam/fullstory.php?id=14868370&cid=2362

If so, there'll possibly be an album within a month...

[kameshratnam]

[tscii:6c79c85a43]Shivarajakumar, director Saiprakash and screenwriter Ajaykumar come together once again to make ‘Bhagyada Balegaara’. Their first effort was the superhit, ‘Thavarige Baa Thangi’.

Shivarajakumar plays a balegaara (bangle seller) in the movie. Navya Nair plays the female lead while Anu Prabhakar, Adi Lokesh and others essay prominent roles.

"Bhaagyada Balegaara hogi baa nan thavarige …", a very famous Kannada folk song, is being used in this film. The title of the film is inspired from the very song.

Ilayaraja scores the music; M R Seenu is the cameraman.[/tscii:6c79c85a43]

[krish244]

Article says Pazhassi Raja back on track:

http://entertainment.oneindia.in/malayalam/top-stories/2009/pazhassi-raja-movie-shoooting-190309.html

thanks,

Krishnan

[raja_fan]

பழஸ்சி ராஜா இன்னொரு மருத நாயகமோ ?

இங்க்ளிஷ்காரனை எதிர்த்து போராடினா காணாம போய்டுவாங்க போலிருக்கு :))

[krish244]

Looks like Pazhassi Raja will be released in hindi (dubbed) too.

http://hindi.galatta.com/entertainment/hindi/livewire/id/Pazhassi_Raja_in_Hindi_23294.html

I don't know how this storyline and cast (both very regional) will attract north indian audience. I don't think IR will be involved in the recording of hindi version of songs.

Krishnan

[krish244]

Not sure if its posted before:


http://ishare.rediff.com/video/news---politics/tv9-special-interview-ilayaraja/519525

IR's interview for TV9 (telugu). Could not stop laughing when he says "the memory chip is not working" :)

thanks,

Krishnan

[irir123]

Looks like Pazhassi Raja will be released in hindi (dubbed) too.
http://hindi.galatta.com/entertainment/hindi/livewire/id/Pazhassi_Raja_in_Hindi_23294.html
I don't know how this storyline and cast (both very regional) will attract north indian audience. I don't think IR will be involved in the recording of hindi version of songs.
Krishnan

Hindi version - film roll potti pona speedlaye thirumbi vandhurum!

[raja_fan]

Hindi version - film roll potti pona speedlaye thirumbi vandhurum!


:D

The producers apparently have spent the biggest amount for any Mallu film ever and want to get back whatever penny they can.
I am sure it will be dubbed in Tamil, having Sarath Kumar in a significant role.
Have to see how IR's tunes sound in Tamil version.


Hope they find some good lyricist in Tamil instead of usual dubbed film lyricists.

I am still not able to bear the incoherent lyrics of the songs of Siraichalai .

Hero : Sempoove poove un megam naan vandhaal oru vazhiyundo
Heroine : Saindhaadum sangil thuli pattaalum mutthaagidum muthunde..


What is the relation between Sempoo and Megam ? What meaning ? What is the answer that Heroine gives for the question of hero ?

Evan ezhudinaan indha paatai ? :)

[Sureshs65]

Krish,

Thanks for the interview link. It was posted sometime back I think this one is a more complete version. I don't know if the songs were as in the TV show or added later by someone. Anyway it is a nice interview. Two observations: 'Mallepoovula' sounds as good as the other songs of the 80s. His answer regarding 'pop corn' music in the end. I think this should clarify certain things to raagas who was earlier upset that Raja called other music as pop corn music.

[krish244]

Sureshs65, I think, in most of the interviews, IR was probably never asked to explain what he means by "pop-corn" music. This interviewer was probably curious and maybe was thinking that IR means that "these pop-corn composers are not composers" and so wanted to clarify. You can see that from IR's reply. He says "you guys have mistaken me.....these composers (pop-corn) would not have earned a good name had they not given good music".

I don't think, one can blame the interviewers too because IR's resposes to some of the questions although answers the question, is still a bit vague to understand. For example, when it comes to composing song in a raga (even here the interviewer asks about sudha dhanyasi), IR always maintains that he does not keep raga in mind and compose. The tune happens to be in that raga. For a genius and "natural" like IR, I can understand what he says and I believe that to be a reason for so many experiments in tune structure and the music too. Still, his response is partly puzzling to me as I think how all his natural creations adhere to a raga so strictly without the need to fine tune (to adhere to that raga). That too, this has been happening for so many years in so many raagas. I was thinking about this point as I am writing and it struck me that, maybe, IR really means what he says and maybe he fine tunes (to stick to a raga) only when its required. See, even for us, who have been following his music all through the years, takes time to understand what he might really mean. Imagine the plight of the interviewer.

thanks,

Krishnan

[cry_sandiego]

I enjoyed the interview.. I am always amazed that he can talk all languages ( Tamil.Telugu.Kannada.Malayalam) w/ ease.

1. Memory chip analogy.. Was good.. But i think it is inevitable.. For example, while typing , i see that my spelling ability has gone down and sometimes i have to think a bit about the correct spelling. This is b'cos all the word/email editors i use everyday spell/grammar check is turned on and due to this technology, i find it i am losing my spelling skills. So same with singers.. they get spoilt by technology...( But IR too benefited from that.. I have read long back, when IR was at his peak doing 40-50 films every year, he would record the song in his voice first and then SPB would sing over later due to schedule conflicts. )

2. He says he does not want to guide/give suggestions to other MD's as he himself is still learning by making mistakes.. he says when he has learnt music fully , he would stop creating music.. and i do not want to go into details but i can see what perspective he is coming from.

3. He says the Director of the film does not influence his work. His main inspiration is his involvement with the movie, characters and emotions he sees on the screen. His saptha swarams stem from these. The director of the movie does not have an impact..

4. His comment regarding SPB/SJ/Asha Bhosle was good. He basically says the only singers that can truly understand the composer's intent are SPB/SJ. Asha Bhosle takes any challenge and he usually tends to give her challenging songs.



Cheers
MSK

[writeface]

>>>

Hero : Sempoove poove un megam naan vandhaal oru vazhiyundo
Heroine : Saindhaadum sangil thuli pattaalum mutthaagidum muthunde..
<<

Infer Megam gives mazhai,sippy gives muththu...! (ignore sempoove..)

Listen to : "sindiya veNmani sippiyil muththaachchu.." :-)

Wf.

[Sureshs65]

Krish,

Exactly what you said about 'popcorn music'. Our fellow poster 'raagas' was upset earlier in another thread when he heard Raja has spoken about other music being pop corn music. In this video he clarifies that he was asked about pop corn music and that he replied to it. He hadn't said that today's directors give pop corn music. As you rightly say, you cannot blame the interviewer all the time :)

What I find is that Raja seems more comfortable in interviews in other languages than in Tamil. His Malayalam interviews are so open and he is enjoying himself in those. In this interview too he is having a lot of fun.

[thamizhvaanan]

Can someone translate the whole interview please?

[raja_fan]

wf,

Yes, I know that notorious song :)

But surely Siraichaalai Tamil songs are foolish..

[krish244]

Sathyan Anthikad's movie named as "Bhagyadevata".

http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14874341

thanks,

Krishnan

[Sureshs65]

Let's hope Raja has composed tunes on Jayaram's houseboat in the backwaters for the Sathyan movie. We will then get a fabulous song like 'Mellai Onnu' :)

[raja_fan]

Suresh,

:)

Rather I want one more of a "Mandhaara poo mooli.." kind !

[Plum]

suresh and raja_fan, no offence but I hope Satyan gets what he wants more than we getting Mandharappoo and Melle onnu :-)

[raagas]

Krish,

Exactly what you said about 'popcorn music'. Our fellow poster 'raagas' was upset earlier in another thread when he heard Raja has spoken about other music being pop corn music. In this video he clarifies that he was asked about pop corn music and that he replied to it. He hadn't said that today's directors give pop corn music. As you rightly say, you cannot blame the interviewer all the time :)

Suresh,

I did see this interview long back and i agree that IR did clarify that he never labelled other composer's music as Pop-Corn music. I am glad he did that. Yet, my only reservation was that, despite this interview, there were ocassions when he said that he can cook kitchen feasts but listeners only are opting for popcorn. Or probably, this whole popcorn argument got magnified because of repeated articles/quotes about this topic.

Now, probably he might have also referred to Feast = classical form and PopCorn = peppy foottappers. but that is also unlikely, since he himself is a master at peppy numbers and atleast in my opinion, i would rate his foottapping peppy numbers as Feast only and not as fastfood, although it caters to fastfood generation. Like i said before,disapproving a certain form of music (computer music) or anything out-of-his-scheme-of-things,is something which i dont like him doing. And mind you, i am not disagreeing with him at all.I very much agree that people might flock towards popcorn music.and he is 100% right, when he says that. My only objection was -'dont disapprove something, when you yourself give in, into it, sometimes... or when your own disciples (his sons) are part of it'. i expressed same thought before, that i wish he kept his opinions to himself, in a dignified manner.

Suresh, there are few clips in youtube, in which IR demonstrates synthesizer loops and questions the audience - how can looped rhythms be called as music created by composer. I agree with him 100%, no two ways about it.but then,i dont expect to hear the same in his music.

from what i understand, IR too uses synth-computer-popcorn etc etc in some proportions(hence, popcorn/fastfood labels) and probably he doesnt like people using it completely or extensively (as a fullmeal).i see his point,but he cannot fix a 'mandatory level' for the amount of synth-loops-computer-popcorn used right. It is IR's intelligence that he is using it in certain proportion in his own way to make some beautiful music. But at the same time, it applies to others too. To each, his own, good or bad.

This interview is one of the rare videos in which IR openly said he is not criticizing.wish he took enough care to not let such a notion be formed, in the first place. thats all.

Also, whats peculiar is when the intervewer asked "whats ur words of encouragement for young gen?", he resisted with a weird question" if i dont encourage, will they not succeed?". I agree with the logic, but i dont understand the resistance to say something positively for such a simple question. he could have said something as general and genuine as "practice is important, treat music as divine and work-hard, dont discard the roots, such as classical music etc, because they are foundations". it could have been so simple, straight and nice.

[irir123]

AFAIK, any kind of 'musical' output, that has no discernible pattern/structure, which one can attribute to the composer's ability/effort is 'popcorn' stuff - meaning such kind of music does NOT require a composer to do much - of late, am hearing a lot of rap style tracks - irrespective of who the composer is, this use of rap-style elements does not augur well IMHO - even I can compose rap stuff, whats the big deal ?

"avan kaiyya pudichhaaan, naan ava kaadhai kadichchen, avan adhai pudhichaan, naan idhai adichaaen, come on come on, pudi, pudi" - rap style elements are so easy to write words to since they have no specific pattern, and one can simply read them out

I can specifically point out the tracks, but there will be adidhadi in the hub, given the composers who repeatedly come up with such tracks

IMHO, IR does have a right to refer to such music as popcorn music - because, its something anyone can do, without any effort whatsoever - to say tats what the makkals like/prefer to hear is hogwash and irresponsible on the part of the composer

its becoming a trend to have an album with at least one track thats rap style even if the album has a good melody - probably thats part of a cleverly packaged marketing strategy

no wonder, when Mysskin approached IR, IR asked him "ennaiyya, 'anjathey' padam paattellaam hit aamey ? adhu maadhiri kutthu paattu pottu tharattaa ?" or something like that!

[krish244]

Also, whats peculiar is when the intervewer asked "whats ur words of encouragement for young gen?", he resisted with a weird question" if i dont encourage, will they not succeed?". I agree with the logic, but i dont understand the resistance to say something positively for such a simple question. he could have said something as general and genuine as "practice is important, treat music as divine and work-hard, dont discard the roots, such as classical music etc, because they are foundations". it could have been so simple, straight and nice.

Even I was a bit curious to see if he says something on the lines you said, but something in me told that he is going to respond the way he did :).

Krishnan

[jaiganes]

and I am happy he responded like that. In India we have the nasty habit of asking Kamal about what he thinks of Rajini, Abhishek as to what he thinks of aamir. We are so obsessed with what personalities think of each other instead of asking questions that pick the minds of their genius. The only notion behind the question is this.
If he answers diplomatically we will put it in the normal font, if he says something else, we will blow up the font and put it in the cover and sensationalize it.

[ananth222]

I think his point was that he is not so big as to give advice to others. just a bit of humility and a statement that the art is bigger than personalities. A "normal" response would have implied saying that "yes, I am superior and fit enough to give you advice" which he avoided (even though he is more than fit to do that).

[rajasaranam]

I think his point was that he is not so big as to give advice to others. just a bit of humility and a statement that the art is bigger than personalities. A "normal" response would have implied saying that "yes, I am superior and fit enough to give you advice" which he avoided (even though he is more than fit to do that).

ananth,

your reflected exactly my thoughts :) :)

[Plum]

aw! the same old "humility, diplomacy, conforming with norms" again. Rahman has really spoilt a generation with his impeccable record in these areas - idhellaam irundha dhaan nalla artist-nu oputhuppainga pola. Vidyagarvam-nu opru word coin pannainga namma munnorgal - me thinks we have regressed from our ancestors' time. Romba conservative-aa poyittirukkom...

[raagas]

I think his point was that he is not so big as to give advice to others. just a bit of humility and a statement that the art is bigger than personalities. A "normal" response would have implied saying that "yes, I am superior and fit enough to give you advice" which he avoided (even though he is more than fit to do that).

ananth, i do like to think so, but it did not sound so, unfortunately. i liked the whole interview, except that "wont they succeed if i dont encourage or say something". I mean, such a retraction was unnecessary for such a simple generic question. If that answer is valid, then it can be valid just for any response for anything.. like suppose if we ask IR about anything, and if he answers "is my opinion necessary", then there is no point of exchange of thoughts on anything as such. He could have said just something as generic as the question was.forget as a IR fan, as a common person i found his response to that question very peculiar, with all due respects.

[kiru]

Also, whats peculiar is when the intervewer asked "whats ur words of encouragement for young gen?", he resisted with a weird question" if i dont encourage, will they not succeed?". I agree with the logic, but i dont understand the resistance to say something positively for such a simple question. he could have said something as general and genuine as "practice is important, treat music as divine and work-hard, dont discard the roots, such as classical music etc, because they are foundations". it could have been so simple, straight and nice.

raagas sir, please do not forget the man is a genius..and "one crazy dude" ..he is not going to be predictable at all.
There might also be sense of pride..he probably "that certain things cannot be accomplished by hard work alone..got to be gifted or blessed".. but this is my own personal conjecture and not a character assassination.

[Sureshs65]

Well said Plum. I do think we are in 'politically correct' times and raagas, with due respects to you, what you are asking is for 'political correctness'. A generic question and an even more generic answer. I am happy that there are people like Raja who do not give generic answers. What is life without a bit of attitude. Humility be damned.

[nanchil_guy]

It would be better to create a seperate section where we can analyze IR character, and leave this section to enjoy/analyze his music.

[Sureshs65]

... and I agree with what Jai says. No questions get asked to pick the mind of a genius, though this particular interview had a few good questions like the director's role in how the song turns out and usage of a particular raga etc. Many a times you see interviewers asking the same question, 'where were you born', 'how did you become a music director', 'what advice will you give to current generation' and 'how to succeed.' You already know the answers. Like raagas said, the answer will be 'work hard, don't give up' etc etc. No one will say, 'get yourself adopted by a rich guy'. So it is nice to hear Raja say, 'why my advice?'.

[Sureshs65]

NG,

Agree with you. My last on this subject in this thread.

[MumbaiRamki]

Arya's Interview . ..he will be producing a movie , with music by raaja


http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Aryas+role+in+Sarvam&artid=vsudZ8ir3Pc=&SectionID=sPqk7hE5Bqg=&MainSectionID=sPqk7hE5Bqg=&SEO=Arya,cameraman+Nirav+Shah+and+Vishnuvardhan&SectionName=qREFy151z8Q5CNV7tjhyLw==



"Arya has already started work as producer under the The Show People banner. ''When I was new I had no one to promote me. That's why I want to take this opportunity to help new talent.'' Director Suka (assistant to Balu Mahendra and Bala) is already working on the first project to which Illayraja is giving the music."

[raagas]

What is life without a bit of attitude. Humility be damned.

hmmmm.

IR is a genius, without any doubt and and as we all know, every genius has some eccentricity or the other. Probably this was one such. :) I am glad you are acknowledging. Nothing wrong, since every talented person has some eccentricity for sure, and nothing wrong, since nobody can be perfect in all dimensions. but some people refuse to accept it as fact.

[eagle]

It would be better to create a seperate section where we can analyze IR character, and leave this section to enjoy/analyze his music.

This is really cool idea... his interviews have always been unpredictable, funny and informative (the kind we don't get normally)... the one interview i liked most came in kumudam all answers were one liners... makes u laugh for sure...anybody remembers???? :)

[rajasaranam]

It would be better to create a seperate section where we can analyze IR character, and leave this section to enjoy/analyze his music.

This is really cool idea... his interviews have always been unpredictable, funny and informative (the kind we don't get normally)... the one interview i liked most came in kumudam all answers were one liners... makes u laugh for sure...anybody remembers???? :)

Yeah I remember that interview. Was searching for that online and landed upon this interview (http://www.indolink.com/tamil/cinema/Specials/98/August/Raja1_2.htm). An interesting one for sure

[thumburu]

Geniuses are mostly quirky and RAJA takes the cake for "foot in the mouth" syndrome . Anyways his music is sweeter and that should be the sole reason for us to celebrate him

[ananth222]

I think the tamil translation of what he wanted to say would be "naa solliya ivanga munnera poraanga?", which is not so bad.

Another interesting interview is the one that appeared on bbc tamil long time ago. I also feel that IR basically has a few ideas/answers for certain things/questions, and says the same thing in every interview (his answer for choosing raagas for songs, for instance, has been repeated several times).

[rajasaranam]

I think the tamil translation of what he wanted to say would be "naa solliya ivanga munnera poraanga?", which is not so bad.

Another interesting interview is the one that appeared on bbc tamil long time ago. I also feel that IR basically has a few ideas/answers for certain things/questions, and says the same thing in every interview (his answer for choosing raagas for songs, for instance, has been repeated several times).

and that 'Paravai parakrathu' anecdote is also oft repeated :)

[krish244]

Audio of Bhagyadevata likely to release in first week of April:

http://entertainment.in.msn.com/southcinema/article.aspx?cp-documentid=2372149

thanks,

Krishnan

[eagle]

I think the tamil translation of what he wanted to say would be "naa solliya ivanga munnera poraanga?", which is not so bad.

Another interesting interview is the one that appeared on bbc tamil long time ago. I also feel that IR basically has a few ideas/answers for certain things/questions, and says the same thing in every interview (his answer for choosing raagas for songs, for instance, has been repeated several times).

and that 'Paravai parakrathu' anecdote is also oft repeated :)

You cant call that "anecdote". Its is his concept of how music should evolve...he says music should happen as naturally as the bird flies... of course he repeats that often...
Also its a matter of contradiction that a person who believes natural, spontaneous outcome and not conscious about the process makes music which is often rigid in structure almost like a mathematical formula....

[Sureshs65]

eagle,

I agree with you on the mathematical precision of his music. I wouldn't call it a contradiction. I would probably call it a paradox. By all the available evidence Raja does seem to compose every song spontaneously yet his mind is able devise everything according to certain precision. No clue on how he is able to do that.

I am neither a musician nor a someone who learns music but still I am able to feel the precision in his work. The thought that comes to my mind whenever I hear any of his songs is the word 'mathematical precision'. Even in his works which we may not like or appreciate much, I see a lot of precision. There is something either in the way he thinks or in the way things come to him spontaneously, which this precision to the fore. Very difficult to explain what I mean.

[kiru]

Probably music also follows some laws of nature - only certain sequence of notes seem to be considered music and the really good ones stay in your head..just like numbers ..if you can see a pattern in them you remember. The trajectory of an object thrown up in the air is a parabola. When matter disappears energy created in mc**2 and the list goes on..If IR is mathematical..think about the guys who devised the mElakartha system of raagams !!!
I think IR just starts of with some swaras from a given raagam and then probably for him the composition "just falls into place". In the recorded version of a compositional exercise...kaRRil varum geethamE..as soon as IR sings the tune..vaali says ha..kalyani ..and IR responds .."aamaam annE". So the man is BSing when he says he does not pick a raagam..or maybe he start on a few notes..then he probably corrects course to certain swaras etc..which happens to be in a raagam..the fact that he knows the raagams well gives him no alibi..or maybe these things happen so fast in his head..he claims he is not consciously doing it..

[cry_sandiego]

Hi Kiru,

Howdy. I was thinking abt the same thing.. But could it be that he creates the peice and then realizes the structure/Raaga and formulates the rest of it based on that.. I remember when i met him several years ago and we asked him about the rare raaga's that he has ventured, he said the same thing .." Ithellam nan pre-meditate pannni pannathilla.or something to that effect."

Also when he composes, he only does the first few lines for the lyricist to pen the words right.. So the pattern evolves first, then the recognition about the pattern/raaga and then he composes/improvises the rest of the song to fit that structure .. again this is my guess.. i have not seen a complete composing session...

maybe..i do not know..but very interesting topic and it will be curious to understand how this progress works..

many of the songs he has done, the raaga fits so well to the situation..It cannot be sheer coincidence every time.. probability does not work that way..


Cheers
MSK

[eagle]

Probably music also follows some laws of nature - only certain sequence of notes seem to be considered music and the really good ones stay in your head..just like numbers ..if you can see a pattern in them you remember. The trajectory of an object thrown up in the air is a parabola. When matter disappears energy created in mc**2 and the list goes on..If IR is mathematical..think about the guys who devised the mElakartha system of raagams !!!
I think IR just starts of with some swaras from a given raagam and then probably for him the composition "just falls into place". In the recorded version of a compositional exercise...kaRRil varum geethamE..as soon as IR sings the tune..vaali says ha..kalyani ..and IR responds .."aamaam annE". So the man is BSing when he says he does not pick a raagam..or maybe he start on a few notes..then he probably corrects course to certain swaras etc..which happens to be in a raagam..the fact that he knows the raagams well gives him no alibi..or maybe these things happen so fast in his head..he claims he is not consciously doing it..

To a guy like me who does not know anything about raaga or western musical systems (I remember subbudu once said raaja is real raaja in western music) how his music appears mathematical? Mostly his interlude arrangements makes me think so... It never fails to impress me albeit bad lyrics(the ones that creates a sudden desire :hammer: to meet the lyricist) , repeated situations...
(BTW can interludes also follow a particular raaga? )
I agree with you music nature analogy.. but in a different way..many people have told and i also experienced that even the most boisterous of his compositions never disturbs you. it just becomes part of the environment and at times you are almost unaware of it.
Sometime back i read a book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" The central idea in that book is inquiring two aspects of human nature romantic and rational. Romantic (not the romanticism charu is accusing raaja of :) ) in the sense the wholesome experiences.. zen like .. rational in the sense the inner workings, mechanics analysis of everything... he tries to see whether both can co exist at a moment and concludes that highest quality is possible when it does.
All the artists, writers, musicians falls into either of this two qualities or inclined to be either too romantic or too ratioanl... this applies to even ordinary mortals like us...
I know one guy :wink: achieved a perfect combination of the two thus brought a highest quality in his creations...

[thumburu]

Good posts by Kiru, MSK and eagle. I completely agree with Kiru's observation
IR has reached such a level of consciousless competency that music comes naturally to him and falls in its place without any wasted notes or "aba swarams". His music is akin to a flow of serene stream, with no jerks and no running inspate. May be he doesnt decide on a raga for composing, but the musical patterns that cross his mind during that magical moment conform to a particular raga like "sudha dhanyasi" or "mayamaLavagowlai" etc. Recalling his new raga invention during ARR felicitation, IR does bother about what raga his composition fits into, may be after and not before. Raja himself states that good music adheres to laws of mathematics like "kaala pramaanam"

[raagas]

Infact, some of the ideas too, like shruthi-bhedham etc, occur naturally. He doesnt have it as an agenda, to showcase something outstanding but does it in a very non-challant manner. exceptions could be only when the situation demands a change in the colour or mood of the song, he might switch to a different raaga. but mostly, music just flows. and at a very broad level, it is the same for most composers - music just coming in. Thats why some songs (by every composer) have parallels in other songs (by them). just like how you can sometimes predict the tune/beat played by a classic instrumentalist, sometimes, we can predict the same about some songs of composers. and it doesnt mean repetitiveness, it is just logical for that composer to end that particular tune that way, according to his style. it comes naturally to him.

it is very true in the case of IR too... be it any music, it just comes to him...like a stream

[jaiganes]

Could not something about the situation he composes for count for most of his musical decisions?
In independent albums, he has leaned heavily on the masters. His 'How to name it' has a glorifying argument of unity between Thyagaraja's 'Thulasi dala' and Bach's orchestral works, both spiritually inspired and driven with the same bhava.
His 'I love mozart' was a direct praise of mozart's music created in typical mozartian fashion.
Like poets praise poets in poetry, Raja has praised Thyagaraja, Bach and others in their own musical form in these albums.
Now for this, he chooses a musical strain from their works that identifies them 'uniquely' and creates strands with precision and care to bring them in one strand without 'shruthi bedham' - (recall sruthi matha and layam pitha) This is to me his underlying genius. Once you have the strand in the mind ready, inspired by the central theme of musical work, if it is a song in film, then the situation and characters, if it is an independent album, the theme of it (recall India 24 hours ), then all he sets about doing it is to avoid things that are out of place there (che che idhu sariya varaadhu in thiruvasagam putril vaazh aravum song), normalizing it to the point he is left with just the bare minimum of notes that expresses the feel and theme succintly. Probably that is why we feel it is so precise and a great example of being minimalistic while not sacrificing the grandeur.

[kiru]

I think all of us who have listened to IR a lot are on the same page here. Whether it is people like me who are music ignoramuses or knowledgeable people here.
In the ceremony referred here, IR's reference to BMK's 27 notes etc show how technical he is. He is a much more serious composer than other film music composers, to understate it. I think Kamal called him isai vingnani. I think this is a very very astute observation. NOt only he is able to compose in the indian music paradigm (which I call "linear") but also in the Western paradigm of harmonies and more specially counterpoints/counter harmonies. In the Italian tour CD, he plays a 3-note composition linearly and then says, "idhai orchestravukku piricuhu koduththa eppadi irukkumnu kElunga". So a linear composition is broken into multiple parallel strains/thread of music. People here who are into software, will understand the challenges in multi-threaded programmaing, same sort of challenges exist in music too. More later.

[ananth222]

From Guitar Prasanna's article on IR ( found here: http://www.raaja.com/Rv-prasanna.pdf )
[tscii:b4d10d61e1]
“Have you written invertible counterpoint up a tenth?” Raaja (I am taking the liberty to call him affectionately as “Raaja” since he is after all, a “Raaja” in what he does!) has asked me this question a few times– a question I don’t encounter much, at least in India. In an age where most musicians (of course only in India!) spend their time reading the latest software manuals rather than reading books on harmony, counterpoint, orchestration or Carnatic ragas or whatever, Raaja is and has always been an anachronism.
Nothing brought it out better than the speeches during the ARR felicitation - compare IR's speech full of music terms, with Harris Jeyaraj's speech about keyboards and manuals... ramarkable![/tscii:b4d10d61e1]

[Sureshs65]

Thanks for the article Ananth. Found it to be quite nice.

[eagle]

So a linear composition is broken into multiple parallel strains/thread of music. People here who are into software, will understand the challenges in multi-threaded programmaing, same sort of challenges exist in music too. More later.

Its quite fascinating if you try to explain music in non musical terms...

[Sureshs65]

In many ways Raja is very similar to Tyagaraja. Many people swear that Tyagaraja's compositions are as spontaneous as you can get. At the same time, great musicologist like S Ramanathan and S R Janakiraman marvel at the fact that Tyagaraja adhered so strictly to the grammar and in some cases defined the grammar. There was a combination of precision and spontaneity in his compositions. Though Raja deals with a different form of music, I see the same combination of spontaneity and precision in Raja's works.

[irir123]

"THE WORLD OF MUSIC" journal reviews Ilaiyaraaja's "THIRUVASAGAM - A CLASSICAL CROSSOVER"

http://www.vwb-verlag.com/Katalog/m816.html

Reviewed by Hollie Longman

[Hulkster]

irir123, congrats on another achievement. But just one thing to clarify. Thalaivar has done symphony, India 24 Hours,miss world 1996(music) and a orchestral piece for a international music festival just two years back. I feel he does have recognition amongst global musicians just that we do not hear of it that much. :?

[irir123]

The symphony never got released and the only people who know abt it are ppl like us who have been TOLD abt the symphony and a few ppl associated with the symphony, who are not agents and have no compulsion to spread the word abt the same! it would have been a different story had it been released through a label like Sony et al!

India 24 Hrs is not known to ppl even in TN, besides maybe a few hundered who visit this forum or maybe in IR's yahoogroup!

the orchestral piece for the festival was in 2004 and not 2 years ago - and even that does not find mention anywhere in sites that should be carrying the items!

the whole point in getting reviews in authentic musicology journals is to have a permanent record of sorts

we cannot forever live under the 'illusion' that IR is known everywhere

[baroque]

IRIR123,

I find a good narration of the album.
They have described well about the sounds they hear in the tracks, the usages, orchestral ornamentation, how things are put together etc.. , pointed some historical periods for a track etc..

But I don't find the following.

What do they remember about the musical that is UNIQUE after they finished?
what is the mood that they hear in their mind or what the musical work make them think or learn
something from it. Don't you think, it will add more value?

I supported enthusiastically IR's Thiruvasagam album.

But When MSVTIMES introduced me the thiruvasagam - ponnoosal by Shri.MSV which was done long back in a traditional style like Krishna Gaanam or subramanaya bhujangam etc... my mind and manasu liked it better for a devotional mood (That's my musical taste!) for its healthy rhythms, resonance and expressive vocals.

IR and MSV worked in totally different style though for me MSV delivers HIGHER emotional satisfaction LIKE his krishna gaanam... I seem to listen Ponnoosal often than TIS these days.

COMPARISON TO BETTER KNOWN SIMILAR WORKS, SIMILAR STYLE OF MUSICIANS & particular usage of the element of music which is different or effective way etc.. will get more attention to TIS-Ilayaraja, don't you think? We need to be careful though, some artists may not like it. :)
Same time they can do in a respectful manner with out hurting anybody's feeling.
If you submit for GRAMMY- world music awards, they will compare with the peer's similar works... then they decide why is it BEST to give AWARD!
vinatha. :)

[irir123]

baroque - if we start expecting them to write exactly what we perceive and expect them to perceive as well, then we might as well write a review and send the same for publication somewhere!

the CD was sent to the journal and they sent it out to someone in their regular roster of reviewers who did the review, and thats about it!

IR is unique to you, me, us coz we grew up listening to him! hence we are 'emotionally' attached to his music - thats fair

but its unfair, impractical to expect everyone from the West to appreciate his music the same way we do! we must also keep in mind that ppl in the West have a much more objective way of looking at things - for instance, how many Indian reviewers would have mentioned the use of 'a capella' in 'Polla vinaiyen' ?? or the mention of asymmetric musical elements (referring to Indian raagas) alongwith harmonies in "poovar senni mannan" ??

check the reviews of TiS by Indian reviewers, most of whom are fans who simply vent out their emotions in the form of 'oh, it went into my soul' 'its amazing' 'its mind-boggling' 'its phenomenal' etc etc!

we dont want that any more - what we need is a proper objective review from musicologists who know what they are writing and a language which westerners can easily identify with!

It might be devoid of emotion, but thats the way things work elsewhere - and we better be prepared for all of that - and thats the most professional way of doing things as well, if we want IR's works to be recorded and recognised for a long time to come

living in the safe cocoon of our instinctive, knee-jerk emotions is not the way to go! such reviews give us an understanding as to how IR's genius is working to create such emotions in us! its all upto us to discern the same - as fans, IMHO, we should evolve and mature too

[NormalMan]

Will a Grammy nomination have to be made the same year, the album got released/produced. Can it be nominated after a few years?

[ananth222]

What do they remember about the musical that is UNIQUE after they finished?
what is the mood that they hear in their mind or what the musical work make them think or learn
something from it. Don't you think, it will add more value?
I don't think that the spiritual aspects or analysis of mental effects would find a place in a technical article like this one. Maybe other journals on spirituality and music and emotions can deal with that. Personally I feel Indian listeners put way too much emphasis on the perceived spiritual effects of the arts. And I feel IR would have achieved much more if his music was not so ruled by his spiritual endeavors.

btw, this is my favorite line from the article:
One might expect the song to sound chaotic due to its vast contrasts in musical style, however, order is established through Ilaiyaraaja's discipline in using musical classifications in their conventional forms. He does not change either the "Western" or "Indian" sounds, but adapts the contexts in which they appear in order to achieve a sense of continuity. :2thumbsup:

[baroque]

irir123 & anand,

EAST or WEST... we listen music
emotionally, intellectually and physically.
that's why I was curious about the missing emotional part.

otherwise it is just a narration of a musical content.

Comparison is a part of the review as well.
If they can name few IR's peers works, how IR fairs against them GOOD, BAD and UNIQUE will be fantastic too.
:)

GREAT work you are doing.
love you, vinatha. :)

[irir123]

When the CDs were sent to FILM SCORE MONTHLY, the reviewer had absolutely no idea as to who the composer was, or what the music was all about!!

I simply left it to them to review the same in whichever way they thought it fit and thats how the review came out

all these spiritual/metaphysical/bhakthi elements cannot be described, since they are in the mystical realm and are subjective and hence no attempt can ever be made to 'quantify/quantitate' them in the crude sense of the same

from that perspective, these reviews bring a different set of views on IR's music by people who have never listened to him, heard of him before!

[irir123]

yeah I agree with you irir123
but EAST or WEST... we listen music
emotionally, intellectually and physically.
that's why I was curious about the missing emotional part.

Comparison is a part of the review as well.
If they can name few IR's peers works, how IR fairs against them GOOD BAD and UNIQUE will be fantastic too.


The emotional part is OK when described by an individual - but the reviewer has a responsibility in describing the CD in a generic sense, that will be instantly accessible to scholars/students of musicology!

just kidding, but the emotional part is best left to front bench viewers and others in a movie hall who get shaken/stirred watching PVasu style amma and thali sentiments in our films! or fans who throw coins, papers, confetti in halls (like Alankar, kamala etc in Chennai) when their favorite stars come onscreen!

objectivism is the hallmark of any well-written critique of works of art in the West - collective emotionalism rests mostly in the domain of evangelical subjectivism!

[baroque]

A good review always expresses the EMOTIONAL PART along with TECHNICAL and PHYSICAL content. That's my understanding. :)

whatever...
you are doing good. :) vinatha.

[irir123]

baroque - I think you are missing the point - how can you describe 'emotions' ? for ears trained and used to listening to music based on harmonies and very few glissandos (thats wat they call 'gamakas/brighas' in the West), Indian classical music often sounds even funny for the first time listener! that being the case, how in the world do you expect them to 'understand' the 'emotional' element in the musical sense ??

if you were to listen to Handels Messiah or Vivaldi's Four Seasons, without anyone telling you what those tracks mean, can you describe the emotions they invoke ??

its a cultural thing that will take time to sink in