Malaysia - The Indian Plight

[nirosha sen]

Dear Friends,

If you have any grouses or problems affecting all of us as a community in Malaysia, please feel free to air your views here. No matter how strongly you feel, it's always better to at least share our angst and give an avenue to our collective grievances.

So do feel free, in venting your spleen here ........

Love : Nirosha

[annamalaifan]

good work nirosha. we can start our new agenda here. first of all im going to send email to mic youth club to join us and consider our suggestion and our problems.

[RR]

I hope religion/caste,politics or potentially offensive topics are not raised here.

[nirosha sen]

Don't worry RR!! I'm sure most would be just glad to share that deep hole in their wounded hearts! Because that's where the pain is. So no matter how painful, let this thread just be an agony column if nothing else. For those willing to apply any soothing balm as salve for an entire community's wounded pride, please step forward.

We ain't got nothing to lose!!

[camille sundram]

I hope religion/caste,politics or potentially offensive topics are not raised here.

I don't know what you mean by potentially offensive - I prefer "controversial". I will not talk about caste as it does not matter to me but politics and religion are part of our daily lives as much as racism is. These are the things that matter to me.

I am fed-up about talking about how backward we are - we have had the motivational classes, speakers etc. We know that there are pervasive problems in our community. What concerns me is how other races perceive us and how they treat us - at the same time, I am not undermining our problems either.

Having said that I will not rock the boat by starting something that may be construed seditious.

[nirosha sen]

That's right Camille! One needs to call a spade just that! There are no two ways about it. Looking the other way merely serves to embolden our tormentors. So no matter how controversial, we need to face-off our persecutors by staring them back in the face and not to look downcast or away. The day we look away, which of us have been doing, is easy victory for those who prick us. And we do bleed, in our hearts and souls......

[NOV]

Wow!
Bharathi kanda pudhumai penngal!

[camille sundram]

Wow!
Bharathi kanda pudhumai penngal!

LOL. :D Yes, I am pudumai penn I guess. I am independent, opinionated, speak my my mind and hold steadfast to my principles. When I was doing my Masters, I was the only woman and Asian in my classes.

And the person responsible for that is my father. When men are sure of themselves and confident of themselves, they will encourage and be proud of their women when those women show their intelligence and independence. I am very lucky that my future hubby is also like that. In fact he said those qualities are what he liked about me. It is my view that only insecure men will feel threatened by intelligent and successful women.

Who knows, one day there might be a saying "behind every successful woman, there is a man?" I have two of them. :)

[Cindy]

Wow!
Bharathi kanda pudhumai penngal!

Paravalliye...ippo Nov kooda SS mathiri pesrar... :lol:

[NOV]

Wow!
Bharathi kanda pudhumai penngal!

Paravalliye...ippo Nov kooda SS mathiri pesrar... :lol:ada paavingalaa! naa thaan original. ss ennoda sishyan.

No offense guys. I am just kidding. :)

[annamalaifan]

Wow!
Bharathi kanda pudhumai penngal!

Paravalliye...ippo Nov kooda SS mathiri pesrar... :lol:ada paavingalaa! naa thaan original. ss ennoda sishyan.

No offense guys. I am just kidding. :)

yaaru yaarukku sishan? manase odanchu pochu. Tatkolai pannikka poren. Irunthalum NOV ippadi abandama poi solla kudathu

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Sandeep]

I resently read about the growing intolence by the majority community in Malaysia. That religous law has been implemented with new vigor.

Some people where not allowed to change religion by the court. A hindu woman was ordered by court to bring up her children as muslims because father changed religion of the children without consulting her.

[annamalaifan]

guys and gurls, i got a forwarded mail regarding the astro book. it suggest all the indian to post back the book to astro. dont forget to mention "Indian’s Dissatisfaction" on the cover of the envelope. im going to do it. what about you guys and gurls?

[nirosha sen]

Sandeep - Yes, the case involving the Hindu woman is true! That case really bugged a lot of people! We last heard that she actually skipped town and could have applied for asylum elsewhere! Apparently, the father tried to commit the court to produce the children to which the judge said it was the father's responsibility or something vague. That case just vanished but it has set a precedent nevertheless that one cannot renounce Islam even if one is a minor!!!!

I felt really sorry for that lady. She was 33 and her boys were 5 and 3 years old. She worked as a bank teller and her husband is a doctor!! They actually divorced and he gave her custody of the boys but later unbeknown to her, on the pretext of visiting, he took them to the religious authority and coverted them to Islam!! He converted because of an affair with a Malay/Muslim, whom I think he has now married!!

[Sandeep]

What is the solution to this problem, which is becoming all too common around the world. Groups not being able to accept the existance of others.

But in case of malaysia wasnt it by and large a tolerant society. The 60% muslim population was known to be very tolerant. Is it a minority that has become more fanatic.

Then again is religion only the dividing factor what about culture, race abd language.

[camille sundram]

Sandeep - Yes, the case involving the Hindu woman is true! That case really bugged a lot of people! We last heard that she actually skipped town and could have applied for asylum elsewhere! Apparently, the father tried to commit the court to produce the children to which the judge said it was the father's responsibility or something vague. That case just vanished but it has set a precedent nevertheless that one cannot renounce Islam even if one is a minor!!!!

I felt really sorry for that lady. She was 33 and her boys were 5 and 3 years old. She worked as a bank teller and her husband is a doctor!! They actually divorced and he gave her custody of the boys but later unbeknown to her, on the pretext of visiting, he took them to the religious authority and coverted them to Islam!! He converted because of an affair with a Malay/Muslim, whom I think he has now married!!

That guy is my dad's second cousin. :evil: :(

[Sandeep]

That guy is my dad's second cousin. :evil: :(

So what is the reaction in the family especially those close to that guy.

I wonder why he wanted to change religion of his children specially since he was not taking care of them. I feel he has deep grudge against his earlier wife.

[blahblah]

Too shocking :cry: .Its a reminder to us all that a democracy is not a place where the majority rules the minority.I feel even in our country too many people define democracy wrongly.In todays world pluralistic countries which combine different cultural,ethnic and linguistic traditions are respected and that should be the way it is 8) . I really didn't know anything about the Malaysian Indians till I saw this thread :( . Continue.

[nirosha sen]

Blah-Blah - Dr Mogarajjah is your Dad's 2nd cousin? What do you mean? Is he like a similar case in your family, perhaps? This doctor is Tamil and aren't you Malayali????

[blahblah]

Nirosha,I haven't heard of Dr.Mogarrajjah :? [did I spell it right?].That was posted by Camille Sundaram. 8)

[nirosha sen]

So sorry Blah-Blah!! A thousand apologies Pa!

[NOV]

That guy is my dad's second cousin. :evil: :(At long last! Someone from the immediate family. There were so many heated discussions going on in many yahoogroups.
Would appreciate some elaboration from you on this incident. Mostly what we have is speculation.

[sonu gopi]

Nirosha,I haven't heard of Dr.Mogarrajjah :? [did I spell it right?].That was posted by Camille Sundaram. 8)


Wow! its getting interesting now - more pls. Ms. Sundram!

Wishing you all a very Happy Deepavali today - 11/11/04!!

**********
SONU GOPI

[Sandeep]

Why is the condision of Indians bad in Mayasia. Usually where ever Indians go they are said to be prospering and improving educationally and economically (though race and religion based discrimination do exist everywhere at varrying levels).

Indians in Malaysia are said to be becomming increasingly uneducated and alchoholic.

[nirosha sen]

Well Sandeep - You have certainly raised a serious question! Why are we lagging behind other Indians in the Diaspora? I'd like to answer this, in my own way by taking time into the past, where it all began ....

But before my long-winded narration, despite it sounding like an excuse, I'd like to hear what other Malaysians like Nov and Camille have to say before continuing!! :(

[NOV]

Indians in Malaysia are said to be becomming increasingly uneducated and alchoholic. :o
How did you come to this conclusion??!!!!!

In fact in the recent UPSR results, several Indian students featured in the Top 25 Students in the country.

The richest man in Malaysia is Anandha Krishnan.

Yes, Indians in Malaysia are being sidelined, but there are so many self-help programmes, never seen before. Things may not be very rosy, but that doesn't mean that Indians are not fighting back.

[nirosha sen]

Yes, our students are trying their darnest to do well. I must hand it to the many students and their parents for going all out to produce the results. Paper qualifications maybe there at high school level to be on the increase but it's university entrance and actually getting the preferred choice of studies that eludes many Indian students still. Medicine being a constant bone of contention for the community.

No denying that it's a constant struggle to survive and yes alcoholism is rampant in urban areas and the plantations where many Indian workers still live and work!

[Sandeep]

How did you come to this conclusion??!!!!!

I read some articles which seemed to suggest this. Following where mentioned in those.

That more and more people are living illegaly on government land. Indians who where mainly into agriculture started losing job because of Manufacturing and building of highways and modern townships. With little education and skills, many have drifted toward urban centers in search of work, usually menial.

An Indian was quoted "We have become third-rate citizens in our own country"

Police say settlements around cities have become breeding ground for Indian gangs.

Analysts said ethnic Malays hold about 30% of Malaysia's wealth. Ethnic Chinese, the second-largest group at about 30% of the population, hold about 50%. Ethnic Indians hold just 1.5%.

[nirosha sen]

Sandeep - The above newspiece you have written is correct! Those figures in the pie-chart is a constant reminder of how far we have been rewarded for the blood, sweat and tears, spilled by the average Indian who was brought here as indentured labourers by the British!!!!


Truth is no stranger than Fiction.

[sonu gopi]

Why is the condision of Indians bad in Mayasia. Usually where ever Indians go they are said to be prospering and improving educationally and economically (though race and religion based discrimination do exist everywhere at varrying levels).

Indians in Malaysia are said to be becomming increasingly uneducated and alchoholic.

Its a known factor that where ever Indians land it spells prosperity however, it is untrue that all are increasingly becoming uneducated and alcoholics in Malaysia.

Yes, you find only certain percentage ( labourers from estates and construction workers) taking illicit spirits (samsu, in Malaysia) which is cheap & harmfull too after a hard day's work. Toddy is not easily available like those days and beers too expensive for them - nevertheless, still prefer samsu due to the "kick".

Education is given top priority by our Indians (both urban & rural areas) but its the opportunities given to us, is where its slow-moving. We have to compete with the others and the percentage granted in local universities and colleges is still slacking behind the rest yet we are trying our best by keeping up pace with them. We could do better then the rest if there was a thing called TEAM WORK amongst us like the economically stable Chinese - the most hard working and studious lot!

*********
SONU GOPI

[nirosha sen]

Hi nice to find Sonu here at last to give her 2 sen worth!! Good one Sonu! As we are the insiders, meaning the real M'sian Indians living and breathing still in this beautiful country, we should indeed be more forthright and open at the actual state of affairs here. It's always good to share our angst with the rest of the Indian Diaspora.

So, welcome all Indian brothers and sisters and gather here to share and hear each side of our story - The Indian Experience - the good, bad and ugly!

[camille sundram]

Re: Dr. M *sigh* I don't know much but my sister emailed me that he is our dad's second cousin. But things like this are common in my dad's generation. Indian/Ceylonese men taking Malay women as second wives but this is the first time children have been affected. To that extent, the law is inadequate as it does not protect the non-Muslim family and leaves them at a peril.

I hate our men for doing things like this. It is a prejudice of mine - but why is it our men go after Chinese and Malay women and give up our culture and tradition? It is very rare to see children of mixed marriages brought up in Indian tradition. Even they look down on the Indian side of the family.

I am very cynical but I believe that we Indians will always be treated as a third-class citizens. You would have thought that the history of Malaya only started with the uprising against Malayan Union, and that Indians came to Malaya only to tap rubber. I would like to ask the historians who they think Parameswara was. If I had a time machine, I would go back and avane seruppa le adippen and the other Tamil clown who ruled Singapore.

NOV, for one Ananda Krishnan, there's 10 Lim Goh Tongs, 20 Hashim brothers.

To our friends from India, the alcoholicsm and uneducated is yet another stereotyping of Indians. Like I pointed out in another post in another thread, taking a simple example, the advertising in the media - Indians are the bread sellers, the labourers, the road sweepers, the lorry drivers, the stall owners. You will never find an Indian lawyer, doctor, advertising executive (the top people in this industries realistically are.....Indians!!!!) using Colgate, Nescafe, designer suits, drive Benzes. We only are fit to use Fair and Lovely or Biourah....I hate the whitening creams advertisements, they are sickening and racist. First of all, dark skin means a stronger concentration of melanin. Secondly, the whites here love dark skin. I hate the shallowness and the materialism that are pervasive illnesses in our society.

We Indians are at fault too. Gangsterism and drug addiction are prevalent amongst the young people - they want an easy life at an early age so they become school dropouts. If parents realise the importance of education, the kids would still be at school getting an education.

[nirosha sen]

That was well put Camille!! Yes, you are not alone in your prejudice towards our men taking up with Chinese/Malay women. I've equally been disgusted with this trend for a long, lo.....ng time!

Whether most Indian men like to admit it or not, I do attribute it to a lack of self-esteem. In Dr M's case, I do think he still loved his 1st family enough to keep them. Perhaps, that's why he decided to convert the kids 1st, then perhaps followed by the wife!!! All of this maybe sickening speculation on our part, but what else is one to do in the absence of more convincing reasons. It's absolutely shameful that the Hindu Sangam kept mum and out of this case. There was nary a murmur from them in terms of sticking up for our rights as Hindus. So much for the freedom to worship!

Parochialism maybe the only solution, to teach our young to huddle together as entities of a single race in order to struggle for a common cause - our very survival!! If we keep selling out and abuse our own kin and kith, then we'll definitely lose out as 1st as families, then as a community!!! As grim a prospect it maybe, but we need to face up to it.

[camille sundram]

Well, amongst the younger generation parochialism is already there, I think. Especially in universities, where voluntary polarisation is a common occurence.

I hope our young people realise with a passion that they are no less intelligent or talented than their Chinese or Malay counterparts. I hope they realise that we are the kind of people whom whenever we are put in a corner, will come out fighting. When the Government imposed the Bahasa rule, who came out the better? Us or the Chinese? Us. The Chinese may score 20 A1s but flop in BM. So if we can adapt to the national language as well as the locals ( I am a case in point - I have always consistently scored A1 in BM, beating even the born speakers), why can't we do well in other subjects? I am sick of listening to adverts on radio and the Indian speaker speaking Malay with an iincomprehensible, unnatural Indian accent that would have been more common place in our parents' generation.

We have two demons to fight - overt and obvious racism from others and insecurity and lack of ambition amongst ourselves.

[Sandeep]

Very nice - So all the blame is with the Indian men :cry:

But on a serious note all the problems you have mentioned is applicable to all Indians everywhere.

Indians have succeeded not just in the liberal societies. We are successfull even in the most conservation middle east. When Indians can succeed in Arabia, Europe, Africa, Latin America, North America, Singapore why is it different in Malaysia.

[Querida]

hmmmm very interesting topic...makes malaysia all the more real for me....i left Malaysia when a little one and have always seen it only as a perfect paradise...and would love to return there...

[sonu gopi]

In Dr M's case, I do think he still loved his 1st family enough to keep them. Perhaps, that's why he decided to convert the kids 1st, then perhaps followed by the wife!!!


I do not think so - if he loves his family he shd not have done such an unethical act. He is such a selfish and conceited fellow - not only has he taken a second wife but converts the children as well. He thinks he owns the children - doesn't the mother have any right on them too? He was making use of the religion to get back at his former wife (when he converts then she is not his legal wife unless she converts too!). How convenient!

Think of the emotional turmoil the 1st wife is going thru' now - here there is no right or wrong where this religion is concern - ppl are left helpless but imagine the controversy if it was the other way round!!

You are absolutely right Ms. Sundram - for most of our Indian men the grass is always greener on the other side! Damn it! :evil:

*********
SONU GOPI

[camille sundram]

Very nice - So all the blame is with the Indian men :cry:

But on a serious note all the problems you have mentioned is applicable to all Indians everywhere.

Indians have succeeded not just in the liberal societies. We are successfull even in the most conservation middle east. When Indians can succeed in Arabia, Europe, Africa, Latin America, North America, Singapore why is it different in Malaysia.

Sandeep, I never said all the blame is with Indian men.

What I said was I have a problem with Indian men marrying Chinese or Malay women and then converting to their religions and bringing up the children according to the wives' culture and traditions. There are so many cases in point. Why is it when they can act like veerans with us, they are pussy cats when their wives are from other races? I am talking from my own observations. The children may even have Indian names but they refuse or cannot speak in Tamil (they speak in Malay or Chinese), they don't go to temples and they act as if they detest the Indian heritage.

The difference in Malaysia is that they practise "positive discrimination" or as I call it "reverse apartheid". In the public sector, the Malays dominate. In the private sector, the Chinese dominate. We are stuck in the middle. Whatever success we enjoy is obtained through sheer hard work - nothing is given to us, even to aid us. My education was paid by my father and now by the British Government. Even our citizenship status is different although we are born in the same country. I can live in the UK for 5 years and get an unqualified citizenship but I am still a non-bumiputra (a Sanskrit/Tamil phrase) in the country I was born and which I love even today.

Also I think we too should change our outlook. We should realise that we have self-respect and dignity, that education is the key to happiness, not short-term materialistic gains. There is so much potential in this country of ours.

[Bdolf Hilter]

What I said was I have a problem with Indian men marrying Chinese or Malay women and then converting to their religions and bringing up the children according to the wives' culture and traditions.

I myself is a german but tamil origin. I don't speak or write Tamil anymore fluent. But I chose it to be so in order to carry on my life. I can also say why if you ask me for that.
My aunt - a christian - married a hindu. He promissed my grand parents to convert to christianity, but he never did that. All their three children were baptized but none of them are practising christian. They feel, behave like hindus and married hindus. This proves you wrong. Don't come to me with exeptions prove the rule. I have very different observations. None of my niece and nephews have a Tamil name but three out of four do speak and understand a little bit Tamil. Isn't it enough? Well three of them are living in Norway, the other one in Germany. What should they do with Tamil and hinduism in Norway. All the four kids are mixed, three in Norway have a Finn father and a tamil mother, the one in Germany has a german mother.
If I am honest you must be able to go ahead with my thoughts.



There are so many cases in point. Why is it when they can act like veerans with us, they are pussy cats when their wives are from other races? I am talking from my own observations.
Any experience with foreign veerans? You will for sure nod with your head when I say people are the same where ever you go. Even in Germany many whish their women reign only the kitchen and bedroom, if possible she should be blonde and chained from bed to the fridge. Funny world is this. Why don't you kick off your veerans, there are enough tools to substitute your men. :lol:

Rest of your posting I did not read. I did not want to make any comment here and I won't do it here in future.

[nirosha sen]

Bdolph - the European situation is different. When you're just a handful of people of Tamil origin, you're practically sucked into the woodworks! But in M'sia, we're about 2 million of us (correct me if I'm wrong fellow M'sians)! We are citizens here like 4 or even 5 generations. We even make up as a component party of the main coalition that rules the country. But all of this is only superficial of course!

It is this superficiality that we detest; because it's the one reason that so much of our civil rights is being deprived and eroded with the passing of time.

[sonu gopi]

Bdolph - the European situation is different. When you're just a handful of people of Tamil origin, you're practically sucked into the woodworks! But in M'sia, we're about 2 million of us (correct me if I'm wrong fellow M'sians)! We are citizens here like 4 or even 5 generations. We even make up as a component party of the main coalition that rules the country. But all of this is only superficial of course!

It is this superficiality that we detest; because it's the one reason that so much of our civil rights is being deprived and eroded with the passing of time.

Ya, Bdolf do not be annoyed and take things to heart. Everyone is just giving their views only. :o :o

Remember we all are still INDIANS no matter where we are from! Do not keep away from us, ok? :lol: :lol:

*********
SONU GOPI :D

[camille sundram]

What I said was I have a problem with Indian men marrying Chinese or Malay women and then converting to their religions and bringing up the children according to the wives' culture and traditions.

I myself is a german but tamil origin. I don't speak or write Tamil anymore fluent. But I chose it to be so in order to carry on my life. I can also say why if you ask me for that.
My aunt - a christian - married a hindu. He promissed my grand parents to convert to christianity, but he never did that. All their three children were baptized but none of them are practising christian. They feel, behave like hindus and married hindus. This proves you wrong. Don't come to me with exeptions prove the rule. I have very different observations. None of my niece and nephews have a Tamil name but three out of four do speak and understand a little bit Tamil. Isn't it enough? Well three of them are living in Norway, the other one in Germany. What should they do with Tamil and hinduism in Norway. All the four kids are mixed, three in Norway have a Finn father and a tamil mother, the one in Germany has a german mother.
If I am honest you must be able to go ahead with my thoughts.



There are so many cases in point. Why is it when they can act like veerans with us, they are pussy cats when their wives are from other races? I am talking from my own observations.
Any experience with foreign veerans? You will for sure nod with your head when I say people are the same where ever you go. Even in Germany many whish their women reign only the kitchen and bedroom, if possible she should be blonde and chained from bed to the fridge. Funny world is this. Why don't you kick off your veerans, there are enough tools to substitute your men. :lol:

Rest of your posting I did not read. I did not want to make any comment here and I won't do it here in future.

Bdolf, I am talking about Malaysian experience and if you do not see where I am coming from, I can't do much about it. The mention of veerans was to highlight the double standards. Niro and Sonu have summed it up for me.

[giri]

I noticed a rare combination. A tamil lady married to a Chinese man. They have 2 sons and 1 daughter. The childrens have both tamil and chinese names and they can speak tamil and chinese. The lady's parents live together with the family. What you ladies say about this. I do not blame anyone for mix marriage. Simple reason: we don't live in india. This is a multiracial country. You can be easily attracted to other races. Our society is not so big compare Chinese and Malays.

[giri]

Talk about Veeram, ya, i agree with some of you. I really don't understand why the men has forget their family and their friends when they marry to different race.

[giri]

Some of them change their religeon. This is has to be followed if you marry to a lady from Islam. Even then a friend mine and his family living with his mother eventhoug he is now muslim.

[annamalaifan]

angga sutthi ingga sutthi kadisiya ambilaigal ellathukkum muthirai kuthithanggappa

[nirosha sen]

No dear guys, it's not back-stabbing but a fact of life, here in M'sia. Of course Giri, we cannot help multi-racial marriages in a plural society like ours. But 3/4 of the time, it is us who lose out as our men are the ones who marry women of other races. Their children indeed do not take pride in their identity as being half Indian. I personally have heard of some, passing themselves off as Eurasian!!!

The other spur in the flesh is, many Indian men come up in life, thru sheer hard work and grit, not to mention the sacrifices of their parents, and what do the sons do??? They land themselves Chinese or Malay wives, cutting themselves off either from the family or culturally as Indians!! It is this scenario that bugs me the most.

Stranger than fiction perhaps, but nevertheless I see it as truth, many Indian men opt to marry other races even if these women are poorly qualified academically themselves!! But when it comes to Indian lasses, they ask for the moon and stars in terms of conditions imposed!! This really makes me mad!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

[nirosha sen]

On another related topic to our Indian community is the plight of the Tamil schools. Do you folks even know what is going on in these schools?????

I would love to hear of their sad stories to be shared here by none other than Tamil school products themselves. Just give us the actual pictures minus the air-brushing please, okay????

[annamalaifan]

its better for men remain unmarried. no need to take responsibilities. aiyo enakku intha kadamai unarchi illaipa.....

[nirosha sen]

Hello SS! I do believe you're the right person to start the ball rolling on Tamil schools, okay?

[sonu gopi]

its better for men remain unmarried. no need to take responsibilities. aiyo enakku intha kadamai unarchi illaipa.....

Young man, you will talk like this now - but wait till a dazzling damsel comes along and sweeps your heart away - then all your "unarchi" won't be bottled up anymore! :oops: :oops:

You will be all too eager to announce your forthcoming marriage and invitation to all of us here! Hmmmm.......to save expenses you might even do it quietly!! :lol: :lol:

*********
SONU GOPI :P :P :wink:

[camille sundram]

I noticed a rare combination. A tamil lady married to a Chinese man. They have 2 sons and 1 daughter. The childrens have both tamil and chinese names and they can speak tamil and chinese. The lady's parents live together with the family. What you ladies say about this. I do not blame anyone for mix marriage. Simple reason: we don't live in india. This is a multiracial country. You can be easily attracted to other races. Our society is not so big compare Chinese and Malays.

Giri, I have no problems men marrying other races. My intended is a non-Indian. I have problems with our men practising double standards and forgetting their roots, culture, tradition and religion. The example you gave is a great one but how many are like that?

As for my future hubby, I told him that I will only marry him if our children are brought up the Hindu way and have Tamil names. I love him but I am not blind. We are a minority and I have no intention of making our size smaller. He's all for it, so our kids (if we marry) will have the knowledge of both our worlds, they will be Hindus and they will speak Tamil. :)

[nirosha sen]

I think at the end of the day, it's how much of the threat of being overwhelmed and side-lined as a community we fear. If each of us, men and women, have this pride of being the torch bearers of the future generations of M'sian Indians, then automatically there'll be a revulsion towards any kind of enticement from the other races.

In a pluralistic society, we are all duty bound to accept each other in order to live side by side as fellow M'sians, but marriage is definitely a different cup of tea! Anyway, with the passing of time and being hemmed in; all the oppression is bound to make Indians in M'sia huddle together more as an entity than anything else. I think it would serve to unite us better as a community, than the" to each his own" perception we operate by, now!

[sonu gopi]

As for my future hubby, I told him that I will only marry him if our children are brought up the Hindu way and have Tamil names. I love him but I am not blind. We are a minority and I have no intention of making our size smaller. He's all for it, so our kids (if we marry) will have the knowledge of both our worlds, they will be Hindus and they will speak Tamil.

Well said Camille - I agree with you - why shd we give room for this to happen and become smaller by the day - I hope and pray all our children think this way too and don't become victims by converting to another religion. I am a proud Hindu.

************
SONU GOPI

[Sandeep]

Indian Women taking up the cause of Hindu minority

Now i know how we hit the 1 billion mark so easily :)

Keep the good work going. Let us fill the world. Vande Mataram :!:

Does QUANLITY make sence anymore or is it all about QUANTITY

[geno]

Indian Women taking up the cause of Hindu minority

Now i know how we hit the 1 billion mark so easily :)

Keep the good work going. Let us fill the world. Vande Mataram :!:

Does QUANLITY make sence anymore or is it all about QUANTITY

Sandeep,

I guess all groups of minorities grappling with their "identity" in a "Majoritarian" oriented country - do face the kind of problems our Malysian friends here articulate about. This issue should be dealt with delicacy and with sensitivity and not with contempt.

In india too, there are problems associated with being religious miniroties and linguistic minorities (facing the onslaught of Hindi imposition!).

As the "Light of Asia" our legendary Jawaharlal nehru puts it - "Unity in diversity" should be the hallmark of any democratic country.

Celebrating the diversity of a nation is a cherished trait, which - respective "Majority communities' should acquire in every nation.

And there is another angle to this : Minorities in a society should understand that similar problems to other "miniroties" may exist - in other places - where their community is in a Majority! :lol:


so our kids (if we marry)............................................ .................. they will speak Tamil.

I love to hear that you would have your kids speak in thamizh! :)

After all - mother tongue would be the ultimate "Cultural Identity" of the expat indian society! :)

[nirosha sen]

We have like 500-odd Tamil schools in the country. All primary ones only! Out of which 100-odd are fully aided while the rest are all partially aided.

How many of you have actually stepped into a Tamil school???? What is your opinion?????

[hehehewalrus]

Excellent posts guys. I have always been curious about the life of Indian expats who are a minority in other countries. It is a shame that while politicians in india are ready to cry themselves hoarse about the majority, they simply wont their little finger for those indian minorities who are pushed out of public life and infrastructure by draconian lankan and malay governments.
More from me later, plzz do keep this thread running

[nirosha sen]

Good to have you Walrus!! Do stick around and post em!

[Sandeep]

Geno,

I dont want to get burned again. So no comments. Whatever you say :D

[Sandeep]

:D

[geno]

Geno,

I dont want to get burned again. So no comments. Whatever you say :D

I didnt get that man!

Anyway..all i can say is that i have nothing against you and you are welcome to articulate alternative viewpoints :)

[nirosha sen]

I'm mighty mad abt what I've been following in the papers abt that suicide pact case of the father and his kids in Kulai?????

They're actually charging the 14 years old girl with murder???? Wasn't she part of the suicide pact???? It wasn't her idea but her father's right???

Where is the compassion that our Hon. Women's Affairs Minister going on abt earlier??? I haven't heard one word uttered by her or anybody else from MIC!! It's simply disgraceful folks!! Our civil rights is being eroded by the minute, I tell you!!

[Sandeep]

I'm mighty mad abt what I've been following in the papers abt that suicide pact case of the father and his kids in Kulai?????

They're actually charging the 14 years old girl with murder???? Wasn't she part of the suicide pact???? It wasn't her idea but her father's right???

Where is the compassion that our Hon. Women's Affairs Minister going on abt earlier??? I haven't heard one word uttered by her or anybody else from MIC!! It's simply disgraceful folks!! Our civil rights is being eroded by the minute, I tell you!!

In India suicide is illegal and punishable (though mostly it is all hush hush). But how can it be murder ?

But then did the father die and the girl survive, was there foul play. This reminds me of a story where a couple decide to suicide. The husband didnt take poison but the wife did. Actually it was the husbands plan all the way to kill his wife.

Nirosha are the police accusing something of that sort.

[nirosha sen]

Yes, the father lies in a coma and I think he has recovered. Man is abusive and alcoholic and the 14 yr old was actually the 1st wife's daughter. Man married a 2nd wife and was bad to her and she bore 3 kids. Apparently, numerous police reports had been made against him but no avail. No action taken against him.

2 wks ago, she decided to run off again in the dead of the night, after numerous attempts before, and promised to take the kids when she could. She actually had temporary sanctuary at a Shelter. But within the a wk, the man decided to kill himself and the kids!! The 14 yr old initially agreed, but got terrified, when after strangling the smaller siblings by the man, both father and daughter decided to hang! It was then that she took fright and aborted the attempt by shouting for help. Alert neighbours came to the rescue! The smaller kids, 3,5 and 6 yrs old were all dead and laid out in the living room!!

[Sandeep]

Yes, the father lies in a coma and I think he has recovered. Man is abusive and alcoholic and the 14 yr old was actually the 1st wife's daughter. Man married a 2nd wife and was bad to her and she bore 3 kids. Apparently, numerous police reports had been made against him but no avail. No action taken against him.

2 wks ago, she decided to run off again in the dead of the night, after numerous attempts before, and promised to take the kids when she could. She actually had temporary sanctuary at a Shelter. But within the a wk, the man decided to kill himself and the kids!! The 14 yr old initially agreed, but got terrified, when after strangling the smaller siblings by the man, both father and daughter decided to hang! It was then that she took fright and aborted the attempt by shouting for help. Alert neighbours came to the rescue! The smaller kids, 3,5 and 6 yrs old were all dead and laid out in the living room!!

May be her plan to elope was found by her father and he may have beaten her. Finding all doors closed she may have decided to take revenge.

Why I feel like this is because this man doesnt seem to be a person who will suicide. I can imagine him killing the children but not himself, he is too cruel to do that.

[nirosha sen]

No, it wasn't the child who ran away but the wife! She couldn't take the abuse so decided to leave in the night, after another fight! Apparently, the kids did beg her to take them with her and she promised them she'd come back for them shortly! But of course, by which time, tragedy struck ......

[Sandeep]

Oh oh i thought the 14 yr old tried to run way.

But still my theory holds good with a minor modification. The father abused the children angry at wife running away and so the 14 yr old killed him. But then who killed the little ones must have been the father.

Dont misunderstand me, I am not saying the girl is at fault. I am only saying that the girl had good reasons to kill her father.

[nirosha sen]

No, it was the father who strangled the younger ones and then told the girl, that he and her could die by hanging!!! Initially, she had agreed to the suicide pact, but lost courage and started screaming for help! That's when the neighbours came running in!

But I do believe that the father didn't in any way do it for the love of the kids! It was to thwart the wife from coming back for them. He killed them to spite her!!!

[sonu gopi]

Initially, she had agreed to the suicide pact, but lost courage and started screaming for help! That's when the neighbours came running in!

What do they expect - she is only a 14 yr old! It must have been a very confusing struggle for her leaving a permanent scar for the rest of her life! :(


***********
SONU GOPI

[a.ratchasi]

In NST yesterday, the mother of 3 may be detained as a police report was lodged against her for abusing her children.
The report was made by the husband right after the last quarrel they had.

[Alisha]

In NST yesterday, the mother of 3 may be detained as a police report was lodged against her for abusing her children.
The report was made by the husband right after the last quarrel they had.

Yes, you are right that's what I read in the Malay Mails however it is also possible that the husband could have lodged such a report so that he is safeguarded.

If the mother had abused her children, I am sure the neighbours would have known or seen.

[davie]

lol ratchasi
u even read local news!! let me get a avatar for me

[a.ratchasi]

are you still in school in, davie?
hmmmm, perhaps it's time for me to change my avatar...

[Alisha]

I noticed a rare combination. A tamil lady married to a Chinese man. They have 2 sons and 1 daughter. The childrens have both tamil and chinese names and they can speak tamil and chinese. The lady's parents live together with the family. What you ladies say about this. I do not blame anyone for mix marriage. Simple reason: we don't live in india. This is a multiracial country. You can be easily attracted to other races. Our society is not so big compare Chinese and Malays.

Giri, I have no problems men marrying other races. My intended is a non-Indian. I have problems with our men practising double standards and forgetting their roots, culture, tradition and religion. The example you gave is a great one but how many are like that?

As for my future hubby, I told him that I will only marry him if our children are brought up the Hindu way and have Tamil names. I love him but I am not blind. We are a minority and I have no intention of making our size smaller. He's all for it, so our kids (if we marry) will have the knowledge of both our worlds, they will be Hindus and they will speak Tamil. :)

Dear Camille Sundram

I am touched to hear on your firm decision for your future plans to bring up your children as Tamil speaking Hindu.

Is your future husband a non-Hindu? If he is than over the years is very difficult to keep up to the promises that your make now while courting. It is easy to bring up your children to know their mother tongue however it is difficult to force on to your children to practice Hinduism when your other half practices another religion.

You will be under pressure as your children grows up in an environment whereby your husband practices a different religion while you struggle to bring up your children as a Hindu. This could cause a gap in between your relationship with your husband while your children will be confused and they will be left to believe what they were taught and not the truth.

It is best that either one of you agree to practice one religion without any force which will be a blessing to your family life.

A FAMILY THAT PRAYS TOGETHER WILL STAY TOGETHER.

[Alisha]

As for my future hubby, I told him that I will only marry him if our children are brought up the Hindu way and have Tamil names. I love him but I am not blind. We are a minority and I have no intention of making our size smaller. He's all for it, so our kids (if we marry) will have the knowledge of both our worlds, they will be Hindus and they will speak Tamil.

Well said Camille - I agree with you - why shd we give room for this to happen and become smaller by the day - I hope and pray all our children think this way too and don't become victims by converting to another religion. I am a proud Hindu.

************
SONU GOPI

Sonu Chechi,

I am proud to be an Indian and I was brought up in a strict Hindu Ceylonese family.

I practiced Hinduism and sang Theavram, learned Classical Music (Vocal), played Veenai, fasted three times in a week, bold my head when my second son was born as I made a vow.

I was extremely rebellious towards number of my relatives who converted to become a Christian when they married their other half or converted due to other circumstances until God touched me and my husband and we ourselves became a Christian in year 2000.

Our believe in God is between us and God and nothing to do being an Indian. When my parents and family found out that my husband, my children and myself have accepted Christ, we when through discomfort until my parents accepted to the fact that we are only Christians but still remained Indians.

My children speak Tamil, we celebrate Deepavali with our parents, I still wear pottu and saree while my children wear Jippa when we attend weddings and other occasions.

When I was a Hindu, I could not understand why Indians born as a Hindu had to convert to another religion so I understand your statement when you said that you don’t like Hindus converting to another religion.

Maybe some of you will agree and some of you won’t but the fact is that I am an Indian and only my faith has changed not my fiscal neither appearance nor character.

[Alisha]

On another related topic to our Indian community is the plight of the Tamil schools. Do you folks even know what is going on in these schools?????

I would love to hear of their sad stories to be shared here by none other than Tamil school products themselves. Just give us the actual pictures minus the air-brushing please, okay????

Our Indian nature is that we are loyal community in what ever we get involved in .

I am very proud that our Tamil schoolteachers are very loyal and worked towards excellence of their students and they have succeeded as many Tamil school students have gained entry in to the Local University. I am very proud that one my cousin brother who went to the Tamil School (Jawe Lane) in Seremban is now doing his first year at the Local University in Kedah and another cousin sister is currently sitting for STPM and I am very confident that she too will gain entry to the local University.

This two cousins of mine who is now 18 and 19 however don’t speak fluent English like the rest of my cousins who went to Sekolah Kebangsaan I see that this is only downfall for children who go to Tamil schools and they don’t speak English at home.

Nirosha, maybe you can highlight how our tamil school students can speak fluent English since your daughter is currently in Tamil school and you yourself have coached the Standard Six recently.

[a.ratchasi]

One way of doing it is by dividing the day into three or more segments (depending on the no of languages). Mornings are allocated for English, noon, say BM and night, m.tongue.

Communication and reading materials should be made out of the languages outlined above during the period.

Children observe alot.
If you hit the books, given reasonable time, they will do the same.

[NOV]

Our believe in God is between us and God and nothing to do being an Indian. When my parents and family found out that my husband, my children and myself have accepted Christ, we when through discomfort until my parents accepted to the fact that we are only Christians but still remained Indians.
What a fantastic posting!
Great Alisha, wish you well. I liked the way you said that the matter is between you and God and how you still respect the religion that you converted from.

This posting of yours just proves that painting everyone with a single brush is wrong. I hope every fanatic - no matter what his/her religion - will learn from what you have said.
God bless you!

[Querida]

studies have proven that children who are bi-lingual may have a slow start but will in a short time exceed children who are monolinguistic...and not only in language but in all areas...think of it this way you are giving your child another way to see and understand the world....how great is that? :D

anyways i know how it is to be the kid who knows less tamil than everyone else....people smile and say it's cute when i speak tamil...meaning i make mispronounciations and insert more english than tamil....the amount i know how to read and write is deplorable but i am still proud that i have atleast made the effort to achieve a credit....it was harder than any other language i pursued...yet it was sweeter because it was my own... :D

oh and just another note....ppl please if you are more fluent in tamil than english...speak to your children in which you are more fluent...if you want to improve speak with friends...watch tv...make time to practice....by speaking to your child in broken or just plain bad english only teaches your child bad grammar or confuses them....and if your child is at worst not able to speak tamil at all...you will be surprised though at how much they will understand....

[davie]

@nirosha sen
could u pls tell me what is goin on Thamizh schools?
i can give u the answer

[davie]

@corida
u can also use ur hands and body language to replace the thamizh words u dont know :P

[NOV]

Saturday November 27, 2004
I did not kill my three children, says guard


THE father of three children who were allegedly
strangled in a house in Kulai, Johor, gave his side of the
story on Thursday, saying he was innocent and was not
involved in their killing, reported Malaysia Nanban and
Tamil Nesan.

The dailies reported P. Selladurai, 40, as saying
from his bed at the Sultan Aminah Hospital in Johor Baru
on Thursday that he had no reason to strangle his own
children, aged three, five and six.

He said he did not kill his children and that his
14-year-old daughter was also innocent and should be
released.

When reporters pointed out that his three children
were found strangled, he said he was puzzled over the
matter.

He told the papers he went to the Kulai police
station with his daughter to lodge a report that his wife
had left home about a week ago.

When they returned home, they found the three
children strangled and he was shocked over the matter and
decided to take his own life.

[sonu gopi]

Our believe in God is between us and God and nothing to do being an Indian. When my parents and family found out that my husband, my children and myself have accepted Christ, we when through discomfort until my parents accepted to the fact that we are only Christians but still remained Indians.

My children speak Tamil, we celebrate Deepavali with our parents, I still wear pottu and saree while my children wear Jippa when we attend weddings and other occasions.

Being a Christian doesn’t mean you are not an Indian. You are an Indian first then a Christian, Muslim or a Hindu. Our race is simply of Indian origin but the religion can differ from person to person. An Indian Muslim/Christian is still an Indian – his religion says he is not a Hindu that’s all. An Indian Christian does not become a European neither does the Indian Muslim automatically become an Arabic. Being INDIAN is also not for the Hindus alone – Indians are Indians irrespective of caste, religion or creed.

Wearing Pottu, Saree, Jippa and even “ Mukutti” is not for the Hindus alone to adorn. Everybody is entitled to use it – its basically our Indian culture – nothing do with Hinduism. I have seen my friends besides Hindus but of Indian origin using these ‘coz it was carried down from their ancestors by keeping intact its culture and tradition.

Of course Hindus have their Thevaram classes or Bhajan sessions normally conducted in temples or in their respective group centres whilst the Indian Christians' are with catechism classes / choir groups which are performed in the churches in praise of the Lord. Similarly Indian Muslims too have their own religious classes and meets pertaining to the development of their own religion. Besides these 3 major religions we still do have other existing religious movements where our INDIANS are practising

I am still a Hindu and in the midst of learning and discovering more about this religion and its way of life. I am thought not to be egoistic but learn to accept life and live amicably side by side with my other brothers and sisters of different religious groups – thus I need not find solace/peace by converting.

**********
SONU GOPI :lol: :lol:

[hehehewalrus]

Friends,
the true test of whether a person is a hindu, christian or muslim is whether he loves his fellowmen.

If a person claims to be religious but hates others or wounds others by word or deed, beware! that fellow is a big deceiver who has nothing to do with god.

He is only using god as a cover-up for his suppressed anger/frustration inside his heart(just like people use drugs to hide their worry - it makes them forget problems, not solve them)

[Querida]

wow well said hehehewalrus! :D

all i have to say is that i have seen that when one converts they are prone to all of a sudden go out of their way to push their 'revelation' on to others...not understanding that some ppl are happy with what they have...or that the previous religion is now seen as lesser and is ridiculed....you may wonder how your beliefs have changed and understand things anew but that is no reason to lessen what you and millions of other ppl still believe...
please Alisha this is not directed at you so please dont jump to take offense i am only saying what i have myself seen and experienced... :)

[ruth premi]

Hello. I did not realise a hot topic being discussed here. Anyway Here I am!

Wow! I read the entire thread.... interesting points and remarks made! All of it are true! Now Here are few things I think can help keep our religions to ourselfs or our religion not to become extint!

Ok I saw a discussion on Hindus marrying non Hindus! Hey! Its Love and Marriage how can we have a say? I mean saying upfront is one thing but later you will have problems! Thats it! You know why its not only you, its your family! So if you ask me... before you get married... pick a religion and practise it! Its hard to digest! But its the only way to avoid Divorce! Unless you have a will of God n you to stand up! Now.... Listen.. I know I am going to bore you guys, but read on!

I came from a Hindu-Christian Back Ground! My dad Hindu, My Mom Christian.... She was not Catholic! When I was young and i knew 0 of religion, i had fun! I mean Deepavali also fun, christmas also fun! And the best part is for Deepavali we travelled to Perak and for christmas we travelled to Johor! You know I enjoyed it! I never knew what my parents went through.. Cause my parents named all of us Indian Names, cause my mom gave in cause she was staying with her in laws. Do you know that no daubt she prayed to Hindu gods, she always had her Christian god in her heart! After about 5 years they went on their own home. I was left to my Dad's side Grandparents, and my younger sis was left to my Mom's side grandparents.... I grew up not learning taevaraam but practising it. I knew each story, each kural.. name it! I knew how to put kolam and practised it daily and tie poo. I was not a name sake Hindu! I was practising hinduism! As for my sis was practising Christianity! cool huh! Yeah! When I grew older and my understood about god, I prayed to only one, Krsna! No one else! I hated my mom! She was chritian! and some problem arised at home and i always blamed my mom, My sis always sided her but me and her never argued about religion but my parents did! Every single mistake, error or problem.. it was religion issue! NOTE: We had hindu names, still went to temple, exposed to both religion, parents did not listen to their in laws, we were stand alone family but Had major stress on ourselves cause of this! My younger brother had nothing to say he just followed us around and none of us (me and my sis) stuffed religion into my brother..... My parents finally said thatleave it to them.. but religion arguements never ceased till todate! I fgeel bad ... awful! How good would it have been if they could have compramised and had only one religion? Would I had to see my parents fight? Would I have hated christianity so much? My uncles told me that a women should always "kow tow" to her husband and she should have follwed her husband religion! Is this true? My dad never believed in it! That is why he left her to go to church and practise what she believes, but what did it made me into?? I was 15 .. It was christmas day, mom wanted family to attend service, Even my dad changed, he said "Oh its Christmas, just moral support" but i stayed back! I stood firm on my believes, my mom cried, asked me to just accompany her, seeing my mom cry my sis got angry and told me i am a religion freak! But i did not care! I believed! I stood, Hey I never felt guilty! That is who I was! If You Want To Believe Then Can U Stand Strong Like I Had? It was horrific, my dad wanted to hit me, he said, by going to church you are not a christian, but i said, u force me to come, i'll commmit suicide! so they left me! That much I Loved my religion!......

2nd Part... When I grew up, and started working, i met many men, trust me i know! But the ones that caught my eyes were hindus and temple going and more calm.. you know the guys by the book kind! I had couple of boy friends "Friends"! But I could not penetrate into them, You know why... the were all saivaits! They knew zero of Krsna.. I could not believe that...... there is anyone superior to krsna! I felt crazy! I will celebrate navaratri one day and the rest of the hindus practised it one day after.. it was always like that... i was toren apart... i never fitted to anywhere... but i was happy with my family (my uncles, auties, granparents, causins) so not that i was deparate for a husband.... so ok! but I did not like anyone I met! Then A friend of mine introduced me to my exboyfriend Mr. X. This is where the fun began!

First when i knew him, he was the by the book kinda man! gentle and all perfect. Never bothered to ask him about his religion.... i fell in love honest! my ever first love...... He is wonderful! Till todate I care for him! Then after 2 weeks, i knew his religion! panic! Panic! I could not sleep, could not pray.. felt guilty like i have sinnedso badly that i had to be killed!honest! We spoke, I told him that i will not convert and i would want us to be hindus... he said difficult, he saidi am the only son and cannot do as you say! But he did said that his parents are also from 2 religion but they are fine! But I cannot accept the fact! CAN U IMAGINE WHAT I WILL GET MYSELF INTO? What parent went through.. And now i am going to be like that? No Way! We broke up! Honest broke up! but after 3 days.. i wanted to give him back all his things and him my things.... we met, i cried, he cried, we cried! hey true tamil pictures. NOte: In My Grandparents home, we were not allowed to see any tamil movies except for god movies, every sunday we sat togather an watch ramayana in Video! ANyway,

WE talked, we agreed, we get married in church and when we move out after marriage, we would go on our own believes and leave the religion by itself... we promised to be adults and more understanding..... the our parents met and gave their consent! So we dated lah! ! was 20 then... we made our vows to get married at the age of 25! During this time, I found out one crazy thing..... In my MrX house there in an alter and they had both gods idols there! Weird i got shock... of course once again no Krsna idol! but never mind thought of having one in my own home though! After about 3 yrs of ding doinging between 2 religion ans festivity again... i could not take it anymore.... From small i did not agree to the 2 relion bullshit so why shoul di believe now..... then i sat and thought about it! The reason till todate i cannot get close to my mom, and till todate I cannot say i love her becoz i hated her so much! we as a family could never be in peace coz there was always arguement! And i heard my uncles voices on how women should follow her hubby..... then after 6 months sitting over it, i decided, the family that prays togather stays togather... so i decided to know more of the religion and get converted.. i attended classes, marriage cum conversion classes! But u know what he never kept me company! I was always alone.. but i never gave up! I wanted it to happen for us! I worked hard! I believed! But as the 5th year came and our marriage was postponed cause his only sister has to marry and they married her off to a hindu... I got blown! My thoughts, my believe, i felt so stupid! so cheap! I felt so humiliated! Not enough that i had to go to church and temple, and pray togather in church and temple, they call themselves christians! I got blown.... I broke up 2 weeks before my engagement! I thought this family did not deserve me or could not understand what i am going through! But I felt so wrong..... Of course there are few other things why we broke up but mjor was this!

Then, I cried... I was lonely.. No one was there, no causins, no relations.. when i got converted, all deserted me... and when i broke up a 5 yrs relations... i lost all my friends.. they said it was my fault! but no one could understand what i went through! No one..... i even tried committing sucide! took 50 panadols and was in UH for 7 days! Then i stayed on my own and went back to temples, prayed.... when to the midvalley temple... on my own di all the poojas at home.. cause i have seen my grandparents do it! I was vegetarian all over again! follwed strictly.. for 2 yrs..... i went back to my sangeetham classes. had good friends... then everyone started coming one by one back..... Then My parents got me a husband! Hindu.. Believes in Murugan! we got married.... me and my hubby have compatibility probs! leave it there! How I pray and How he prays was totally different.. another mishap in my live! suffered for a 1yr.. Hey i did give in and followed him.. DO you know that i do not talk to my mom! Whenever she calls, she'll talk about bible.. i get angry just slam the phone down!

I was not happy in my marriage.. suffering .... mentally honest, i would not want to elaborate.. but yes, i suffered! totally. he stopped me from goign to sangeetham classes, i stopped outting kolam at home... i was at the verge of giving up and committing suicide! That day, i bought 20 migrane tablet 250mg one tablet... and about to take it! my mom called, i was in the office.. she read to me a passage in the bible! i did not realise that i was listening to her, i was crying... i dropped all the tablet and knelt down and confessed all my sinn and realise that.. i only hated my Mr X not the religion! I am a happy Christian now! It 1yr plus! My hubby is stilla hindu!

As long as he does not argue about religion is fine! I told him first, he said ok! I don't care... I asked him about kids... he said.. Well up to you!.. i know its not true! But u know what?????

I believe in God! Let him worry about religion, conversion or childrens name! I am not going to force.... when i have kids... and he said no tamil names... i will say ok! you know why???? Who was I, What Was I? And Where Am I? This is all beyond our hold! I was a born hindu! Practised hinduism... ding songed between religion.... i think i am the most confused person.. but Look where i am?? So its all it the all mightys hand... I am not going to worry! If my children goes to temple ka or even mosque ka.. i am not going to worry... for the Lord knows his children, he will do and call them as he called me back! So...

My points are clear.....
1) If you agree before marriage on one religion .. its beeter cause if you're talking about change of names or religion... after marriage, it'll never work! you'll be sued on and ur child be taken away from you (saying cult movement) trust me......
2) You do not want people to convert... then plant it in their head from small..... and if they convert even after that... then its not in your hand!
3) Pray harder so that your sibling do not convert!

Hey One Question! When u get married u hold ur religion, u bring ur kids up in ur religion, then when they get married they r ur religion but after marrieage they convert as a family then how ah???? can u control ppl from getting converted? NO!

What u can do is this... teach them from young! Don't be just a name sake "religion freak"

Whenever u have the time... tell ur kids what is religion and why u believe is important!

Do not let them marry into another religion! If u cannot do that then forget it! so only these u can do the rest is not in your hand... If I am not wrong.. In this issue.. u have only 75% chance at it the rest is not in your hand! rather then feeling bad, hatred or even frustration, talk about it to ur kids, family and have seminar, encaurage one another feel positive and solve this mess then stressing on the mess and making it even bigger and creating a war at it!

Ok Folks.. these r true! I am not making it UP! Alisha knows.. she was there as a witness! Please Think positive.......

Saavu eppadi namaal taduka mudiyatho, athaipol taan namathu nambikaiyum! Namaal tanneerai matrum taan utramudiyum, valarvatho ... iraivanin vilaiyaatu!

[nirosha sen]

Oh me gosh!! I shouldn't have named my thread as Indian Plight!! If religion is all that we're going to be worried abt, then I say we are doomed, people!!

Let's get ourselves out of this rut, and focus on more important stuff shall we???? Like making ends meet in this country, our future as a dignified race, or our Tamil schools which at least in name caters to a single race, the Tamil speaking Indians???????

Therefore, may I say that we put a lid on religious in/consideration for the time being, please??????

[a.ratchasi]

Yeah, Nirosha. I agree!

[Alisha]

Oh me gosh!! I shouldn't have named my thread as Indian Plight!! If religion is all that we're going to be worried abt, then I say we are doomed, people!!

Let's get ourselves out of this rut, and focus on more important stuff shall we???? Like making ends meet in this country, our future as a dignified race, or our Tamil schools which at least in name caters to a single race, the Tamil speaking Indians???????

Therefore, may I say that we put a lid on religious in/consideration for the time being, please??????

Nirosha,

I had to post my comments as a few messages posted here gave me an impression that Malaysian Indian are branded as Hindus which made me uncomfortable. I am comfortable now after saying what I needed to say.

Let’s continue with our Indian Plight………minus the religion

[Alisha]

wow well said hehehewalrus! :D

all i have to say is that i have seen that when one converts they are prone to all of a sudden go out of their way to push their 'revelation' on to others...not understanding that some ppl are happy with what they have...or that the previous religion is now seen as lesser and is ridiculed....you may wonder how your beliefs have changed and understand things anew but that is no reason to lessen what you and millions of other ppl still believe...
please Alisha this is not directed at you so please dont jump to take offense i am only saying what i have myself seen and experienced... :)

Querida,

What you have said is very true.

My husband and I normally ignore the comments from our Christian “Family” about things that we regard as culture/traditional.

We simply ignore human beings as our relationship is with GOD and not with humans.

Let’s continue with our Indian Plight….

[Alisha]

Ok I saw a discussion on Hindus marrying non Hindus! Hey! Its Love and Marriage how can we have a say? I mean saying upfront is one thing but later you will have problems! Thats it! You know why its not only you, its your family! So if you ask me... before you get married... pick a religion and practise it! Its hard to digest! But its the only way to avoid Divorce! Unless you have a will of God n you to stand up! Now.... Listen.. I know I am going to bore you guys, but read on!


Ok Folks.. these r true! I am not making it UP! Alisha knows.. she was there as a witness! Please Think positive.......

Saavu eppadi namaal taduka mudiyatho, athaipol taan namathu nambikaiyum! Namaal tanneerai matrum taan utramudiyum, valarvatho ... iraivanin vilaiyaatu!


Ruth,

I hope what you have shared about your life can benefit to those who plan to have a mix marriage or currently live their lives based on two different religion.

Could I request you to share about the Indian Taxi driver that you shared with me recently.

[ruth premi]

ok ok... Ippo vishiyathukku varuvom!

As Indian Community, we need more "hang out" spots... you know something like young kids or young adults could meet up and share their talents.....

Basically what i think we "Indians" need is unity... we should concentrate on getting ourselves united and stand strong as one body! Forget Religion.....

We are Indians, we need to come up, live up and improve our social standings! We have to start cultivating habits such as buy Indians product, eat at indian shops and encaurage indian entrepreneurs and encaurage Indian children to develop their hidden talents....

Maybe we could have a Yearly Talent show for young adults and children.... should not be based on religion.. anything... songs, dance, writer, plays, something major... hook up our kids to weekend classes where they mix with our indian kids... don't lock them in.... enrol them for tamil classes!

Many many more!

This is what we should look into Urgently!

As for improving the lives of the underprivillaged, then we need to gird up our selves and get into preson to person helping hand! Don't wait for others! You want to do something, You do it, people watching you either will want to top you up or will join you!

[NM]

Ruth,
That's an excellent idea! Maybe we should have something similar to Summer school/ holiday camps for Indian students/ families. This will surely help indians to meet up and exchange ideas / opinions and provide some sort of teambuilding among us and move away from the "India Nandu" syndrome....
Hope this dream will come true.....

NM

[ruth premi]

Ok now.... This is serious....

Most of us Indians talk about Indian community, tamil speakings and all but how many of us are sending our kids to tamil schools? How many kid of us know how to speak proper tamil or even read or write... why do we feel sending our kids to tamil school would not give better futures to our kids?

Hey this is my opinion......

Send our kids to tamil school.... Its not good enough then get envolved in the PIBGs get involved, you are well to do.. then join in hand with some parents and get a sum of 300 or 500 weekly assign teachers from outside to lecture on Bahasa or Maths.....

One more thing... Pay a little more and get proper Cocuricullum activities to our children..... not only sports..... Maybe Once a month, dance classes, singing classes, tours field studies... all these can only be done if we parents of proper working class start sending our kids to tamil schools... Today I Pledge that when I have kids I will send them to Tamil school, And I will get involve in making not only my kids future in Tamil school better but also other children there!

My points are very clear... stop talking and take action.... You Get involved as well... Do something... Have brainstorming session, call in more parents to join in hand with you...

Of course there is other matters like sponsorship, donations but this would not work for the long run! We needc to banish the thought of Tamil schools will not have good futures for our kids! kinda thoughts!

We should have campaigns out in the housing areas... requesting parents to send their kids to tamil schools! Come up with plans of school busses, Why do you think the Chinese schools been succeding? Coz almost 60% of their students are from well to do family and they run in strong PIBGs! If parents do not get their feets dirty and accept the poor teachers to do all the works! I am sorry we will never move up!

So I really pray and hope that those of you who have young kids at home starting Standard 1 next year..... put them in Tamil school!.... Or Please do not ever again talk about Indians and Helping Indians! You should not only preach but also Work!

You want community to have a different look on tamil schools ratings of 6A students should be generated and hi curiculum rated students should be generated... we should prepare our kids to Form 1 classes and not pre Form 1s!

We can only do this if we stand united and pledge to stand strong no matter what! Can We Do IT????????????????????????

[ruth premi]

Ruth,
That's an excellent idea! Maybe we should have something similar to Summer school/ holiday camps for Indian students/ families. This will surely help indians to meet up and exchange ideas / opinions and provide some sort of teambuilding among us and move away from the "India Nandu" syndrome....
Hope this dream will come true.....

NM


NM,

Hats Off!

That is superb.... I would never would have come up with a summer school thought! Nice going there! Maybe we should brain strom on this idea more and see if we can go somewhere!

[NOV]

Ruth Premi

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Phew! What kind of tribulations behind each of us. Annamalai is nothing compared to our stories. ;)

May the universal God bless you. :)

[nirosha sen]

Thanks Ruthie!!!! Now that's the kind of Firebrand we need at this Hub!! And you know what, I just came home a little dejected the rains had kept a few of my kids at the Tamil school indoors! But now that I've read your post, I feel my flagging spirit been given a revival!! Thanks Girl!!! :D

Yup, I'm a volunteer at our local Tamil school. I teach English to all the kids from Yr 1 to 6. They only have 2 periods per week, see? So, I decided to join in the fray by going in there with photocopied English Readers and grammar books. By the grace of God, it's running smoothly and I'm making some headway....

Yeah, the English and BM classes are what that bugs me abt Tamil school. And yes, I've enrolled my daughter who'll be 7 next year at the same school. This whole year she had already spent there as an unofficial pupil in Yr 1. Thanks to the HM who was kind enough to take her in.

She's improving from strength to strength and when we watch Annamalai together, she reads the Tamil words for me as I'm illiterate in Tamil. How's that for mother/daughter combination????! :D She likes Tamil songs and Indian dances. She actually feels happy that Indian people can dance so well. And we even have our own Gods of our own! Pretty cool, huh???
Yup, I'm looking at our own culture thru the beguilling eyes of my child and it is indeed wonderful!!

[ruth premi]

Thanks Ruthie!!!! Now that's the kind of Firebrand we need at this Hub!! And you know what, I just came home a little dejected the rains had kept a few of my kids at the Tamil school indoors! But now that I've read your post, I feel my flagging spirit been given a revival!! Thanks Girl!!! :D

Yup, I'm a volunteer at our local Tamil school. I teach English to all the kids from Yr 1 to 6. They only have 2 periods per week, see? So, I decided to join in the fray by going in there with photocopied English Readers and grammar books. By the grace of God, it's running smoothly and I'm making some headway....

Yeah, the English and BM classes are what that bugs me abt Tamil school. And yes, I've enrolled my daughter who'll be 7 next year at the same school. This whole year she had already spent there as an unofficial pupil in Yr 1. Thanks to the HM who was kind enough to take her in.

She's improving from strength to strength and when we watch Annamalai together, she reads the Tamil words for me as I'm illiterate in Tamil. How's that for mother/daughter combination????! :D She likes Tamil songs and Indian dances. She actually feels happy that Indian people can dance so well. And we even have our own Gods of our own! Pretty cool, huh???
Yup, I'm looking at our own culture thru the beguilling eyes of my child and it is indeed wonderful!!

Good for you too!

Need any help... Call me! Any family day or camping trip and need volunteers, call me! I will be there to help you and the school!

What else do you need? How many students are there? Do you need a BM teacher? At what terms? You can post a request at the UMIC and see the respond... its a great network of Indian Unity.....

Keep up the gd work! I am glad some of us have started it!

[NOV]

Paradigmatic shift needed for Indian progress
Prof P Ramasamy
Nov 29, 04 3:47pm

The report Why many Indian Malaysians are backward refers.

It has been told many times, the backwardness of the Indian community is not in its mindset or because government policies are not properly implemented.

The Yayasan Strategik Sosial (YSS) which purports to represent the community should stop deluding itself into thinking that by addressing problems associated with the way Indians think and that by asking the government to be sincere, they can bring about far-reaching changes.

If the YSS is sincere, it should highlight the discriminatory policies of the government and how these have marginalised the community that has contributed much to the development of the country.

The overt pro-Malay policies of the government, the discrimination of Indians in the public sector, the denial of licences and contracts to Indians, the low wages in the plantations and the urban sector’s social and cultural alienation of Indians from the mainstream have all made Indians third-class citizens of the country.

The mindset and low self-esteem of Indians are not independent variables, but are the product of state policies and measures that have reduced Indians to their miserable situation in the country.

The YSS and other organisations might be sincere in rescuing the Indian community from its present doldrums, but then sincerity alone is not enough. Intellectual courage and proper analysis are called for to ascertain the historical, structural, political and ideological factors that have impeded the development of the community for the last four decades.

I am afraid that the YSS, as the so-called research arm of the MIC, might be structurally and political incapable of undertaking a task that might end up challenging the present government.

I don't think a proper solution can be found for promoting the progressive development of the Indian community within the present ambit of the Barisan Nasional’s representation.

It has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the MIC cannot represent and articulate the true aspirations of the community. It is merely a pathetic appendage to the present ruling coalition.

Indian representation and progress must be re-thought and re-worked from a higher intellectual plane - an approach that might lead one to experiment with the a new paradigmatic shift that would challenge ethnicity as the basis of governance of modern societies.

source: http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/31728

[nirosha sen]

Thanks for the post from Prof Ramasamy, Nov! He's from my neck of the woods you know! And I know him personally and his firebrand sister, Mdm Muthamal who's even written a book called Shore to Shore abt her family's roots and subsequent migration to the Malayan shores. You guys should read it!!! :)

[Sandeep]

This thread seems to be progressing from problem to solutions. I find many of you talking and some even trying to change the situation in their on ways. I am sure the Indian community in Malaysia is going to turn the board around and soon the thread of "Indian Plight in Malaysia" will be replaced by one of "Indian success in Malaysia"

Best of luck guys and gals :D

We will conquer the world

[nirosha sen]

Anyway, now that we are indeed discussing the topic of Tamil schools in earnest, I'd appreciate more contributions from M'sian Indians who could give us their two sen's worth.

Okay, since I'm like knee deep in the actual situation of the many woes of these schools, I'd like to say that they are actually in 2 categories :

1 is the fully aided school of which there are about 100 in the country, and mostly in urban areas.

The other is the partially-aided ones which make up mostly rural schools squatting on plantation land.

I've personally had the privelege of helping at three different Tamil schools to date. The 1st was in Johor and it was fully-aided by the govt. The other 2 are of course in my present state of abode, Perak, and are both partially-aided.

The fully aided ones are not necessarily in a better state but are eligible for better infrastructure in the form of school blocks, furniture, etc. They are also eligible for trained BM and English teachers from the TTCs in the country.

The really pathetic ones are the partially-aided ones which comprise mostly the children of plantation workers and those from the periphery. Even if they are abt 100 children from Yr 1 to Yr 6, many have been denied trained teachers who are fluent in BM and English. The present one actually has Tamil option teachers who've been given some rudimentary training, but still fall short in expectation compared to the properly trained teachers who are fluent in English/BM!!

The Education Dept actually plays a selective persecution of these schools by openly denying them, properly trained teachers with all sorts of excuses!! They make life tough by demanding a quota of pupils which may not be humanly possible to fill. Or they'll even give the classic excuse that the schools can only be eligible if they can show proof of running 4 periods per week of English or BM which is not there in the time-table in fact!!

[Sandeep]

Nirosha please help us out here.

Are you saying that there is lack of well trained teaching staff who are also fluent in tamil. Is it because of lack of Tamilian teachers who go for/get TCC training. If yes, why?

[nirosha sen]

Tamil teachers are indeed trained in Tamil as well as the advantage of being the mother tongue. But most of them maynot even be better qualified, as opposed to the others who are required to teach in our national schools which are in Malay.

This means they may have very average school results when they finish their 5th form which is mostly in Malay but because of the added advantage of having their Tamil marks, they are eligible to enter the Teachers Training Colleges to become Tamil school teachers.

Situation is now changing because the govt. wants all teachers to become graduates and then become school teachers of primary schools.

[nirosha sen]

Okay - In Malaysia, thanks to the founding fathers of the Constitution - The primary schools are in 3 different streams. We have Malay schools which are all fully aided by the govt. Then we have Chinese schools and Tamil schools which are mostly partially aided.

A child who goes to these schools gets to learn his subjects in the mother tongue till Std 6, after which they go the 1st Form where they are taught only in Malay, and now 3 subjects in English, but with one subject of the Mother tongue taught for exam purposes. It is only these students who are eligible to apply to teach in the vernacular schools if they want to.

[Sandeep]

Oah Oah!!!

Now I think I know the answer for the question I have beaan asking all the while. I think the problem for Indian backwardness is the disparity in educational system which shwerdly makes it difficult for Indian students. After all Indian community has progressed everywhere on the strength of education.

So how to beat the system in its own game. :?

[nirosha sen]

Yeah, a lot of circumventing is needed! But the problem is also the Indian community's own apathy. The middle and upper classes still assume it's the national schools where their children should be thus neglecting the Tamil schools. We are unlike the Chinese community who are all out to help their schools improve and be high achievers.

Anyway, this discussion isn't about some Utopia the rest are trying to glorify. There are two sides to a coin. I would be discussing the drawbacks of the Tamil school, next!! We too have many faults that needs to be rectified!! :P

[davie]

thamizh schools are doing a good job.
But the amount of money the government pays to modernize these schools is almost negligible. But some government/corporation schools are really doign good especially in Chennai. And most importantly getting admission in a arts or engineering college is no big deal nowdays.

[Alisha]

Yeah, a lot of circumventing is needed! But the problem is also the Indian community's own apathy. The middle and upper classes still assume it's the national schools where their children should be thus neglecting the Tamil schools. We are unlike the Chinese community who are all out to help their schools improve and be high achievers.

Anyway, this discussion isn't about some Utopia the rest are trying to glorify. There are two sides to a coin. I would be discussing the drawbacks of the Tamil school, next!! We too have many faults that needs to be rectified!! :P


You said right Nirosha.

I myself did not consider sending my boys to the Tamil School however I will definitely make sure my girl is registered in a Tamil School.

Come to think about it, the Sekolah Kebangsaan teachers themselves are not that great especially the Malay teachers who had to switch themselves to teach Math’s and Science in English eventhough they were trained in Bahasa Melayu. I had a shock of my life when I found numerous spelling mistakes made by the my sons class teacher ... Subtraction was spelled as SUPTRACTION and my son argued with me saying that SUPTRACTION was right because his teacher spelled such. My son is schooling in one of the top schools in Seremban.

Boy!!! Believe me I really had a tough time convincing my son on this spelling.

It really doesn’t matter now whether is Sek Kebangsaan or Sek Jenis Kebangsaan because the standard is really low and parents have to take authority to teacher their children and monitor their development.

[Alisha]

thamizh schools are doing a good job.
But the amount of money the government pays to modernize these schools is almost negligible. But some government/corporation schools are really doign good especially in Chennai. And most importantly getting admission in a arts or engineering college is no big deal nowdays.

There are doing well but the teachers needs more exposure in Bahasa and English.

Tamil School teachers can't do well if they have just passed their English/ Bahasa Malaysia with a pass gred and A1 in Tamil and complete a three years Diploma in Teaching and guide a non English speaking students to achieve whatever above them.

This is a fact dear.

[sonu gopi]

There are doing well but the teachers needs more exposure in Bahasa and English.


Teaching standards have dropped tremendously - compared to old times when we had proper trained English speaking teachers - its a known fact! :x :x :x

Many come from rural areas and they have no exposure at all. :shock: :shock:

I have heard graduate teachers speaking English and it makes my blood boil! :evil: :evil:

*********
SONU GOPI

[Alisha]

There are doing well but the teachers needs more exposure in Bahasa and English.


Teaching standards have dropped tremendously - compared to old times when we had proper trained English speaking teachers - its a known fact! :x :x :x

Many come from rural areas and they have no exposure at all. :shock: :shock:

I have heard graduate teachers speaking English and it makes my blood boil! :evil: :evil:

You may repeat that again.

*********
SONU GOPI

[Sandeep]

Being in Malaysia doesnt Indians have better chance to suceed in life by going to national schools.

Moreover isnt it natural for the ethinic malaysians to expect all malaysians (including ethinic Chinese, Indian) to accept their culture. I am not saying give up tamil but shouldnt we accept their culture.

For instance here in US, you have no option to learn Indian languages. Everybody have to learn in English. Its the same case everywhere. I feel Malaysia is much more open in this case. After all they have Tamil and Chinese mediums.

[nirosha sen]

True!! It is actually a quirk of the Brits when they left this country after Independance. In their fight for independance from colonial rule, the 3 races in fact had got together to draft the Constitution and all races were given their fair share to have their own vernacular schools. English medium schools were the only exception where all races mixed freely.

But in the ensuing years, things changed dramatically!! We had a bloody incident called the May 13th in 1969, when racial riots took place in the capital city and other small pockets in the country. The Malays being the predominant in the army and police, had massacred thousands of Non-Malays then.

Eversince then, a new and more discriminatory govt policy called the New Economic Policy came into effect!! This was the beginning in the rift in the fault lines of a shaky racial make-up!! It's been brewing ever since. To make matters worse, the English medium schools were all abolished by the year 1980.

[sonu gopi]

To make matters worse, the English medium schools were all abolished by the year 1980.


That was the foolish mistake of the century! We never recovered after that. :evil:

***********
SONU GOPI

[nirosha sen]

Okay here's a poser for the rest of Malaysian Indians here :-

What do you think of Tamil schools in the present era????

What are the areas that they should improve upon????

What should the rest of the Indian community do to help these schools??????

Let's get cracking folks!!! The good, the bad and the ugly is all welcome!!!!

[ruth premi]

Niro....

I am suprised that no one has to date posted any answers to your question!

I feel bad! i was kinda busy these few days and had to choose few minutes in the hub.... i will post something valuable later in the evening....

In the mean time, Why Aren't anyone taking a lead here!

Please Help to stay United and Maju Indians!

[davie]

o really

[davie]

True!! English medium schools were the only exception where all races mixed freely.

year 1980.

what!!! ur refering to malay schools or schools in chennai??


:lol:

[nirosha sen]

Davie - Are you even paying attention to what we are talking abt??? :roll:

WE ARE MALAYSIAN INDIANS IN THIS THREAD; NOT FROM INDIA!!!! :)

[hehehewalrus]

Davie - Are you even paying attention to what we are talking abt??? :roll:

WE ARE MALAYSIAN INDIANS IN THIS THREAD; NOT FROM INDIA!!!! :)

ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nirosha, Davie has unknowingly submitted an essay - plz give partial credit for his efforts :D

[davie]

??? :)

[blahblah]

Smart guy!That smile explains it all.Escaped by deleting his essay,and he is known to have done it previously :evil: .Atleast now on Davie,do some homework before you write essays. :twisted:

[Roshan]

Atleast now on Davie,do some homework before you write essays. :twisted:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi blahblah ! :)

[Sandeep]

Nirosha,

I think every Mayalsian Indian has started working hard for the Indian community after reading this thread. So no one has time like earlier. :lol:

I was not responding because you had specifically asked for Malaysian Indians :(

[nirosha sen]

Oh I'm sorry to have offended you, Sandeep! It was not intended to sound that way!! But Davie, unfortunately thought we were talking abt Tamil schools in India, so the clarification! Please don't take it to heart!

All constructive comments are welcome from all Indian friends, believe me!! :)

[Sandeep]

Oh I'm sorry to have offended you, Sandeep! It was not intended to sound that way!! But Davie, unfortunately thought we were talking abt Tamil schools in India, so the clarification! Please don't take it to heart!

All constructive comments are welcome from all Indian friends, believe me!! :)

No, No, just joking. I also thought that Malaysian Indians do need to post some comments as you guys/gals know the ground realities. And was waiting to reply after that.

[Sandeep]

What do you think of Tamil schools in the present era????

Today Tamil schools(other regional schools also) are in a confused state, split between the emotional/tradisional responsibilities and practical realities.

What are the areas that they should improve upon????

1) Educational qualification of teaching staff.
2) Modification of curiculam to ensure that their students dont get left out when they enter the larger world just because they are from Tamil school (I am not talking of discrimination but the only natural thing that, say English/BM/Chinese, may have better reach over Tamil).

What should the rest of the Indian community do to help these schools??????

1) Provide financial support.
2) Provide teaching support (May be part time or as a hobby) - This will be particularly possible for house wifes who are highly educated but are not working. They can spend sometime at schools as a hobby.

[davie]

What do you think of Tamil schools in the present era????

Today Tamil schools(other regional schools also) are in a confused state, split between the emotional/tradisional responsibilities and practical realities.

What are the areas that they should improve upon????

1) Educational qualification of teaching staff.
2) Modification of curiculam to ensure that their students dont get left out when they enter the larger world just because they are from Tamil school (I am not talking of discrimination but the only natural thing that, say English/BM/Chinese, may have better reach over Tamil).

What should the rest of the Indian community do to help these schools??????

1) Provide financial support.
2) Provide teaching support (May be part time or as a hobby) - This will be particularly possible for house wifes who are highly educated but are not working. They can spend sometime at schools as a hobby.


These kids in thamizh (government) schools learn all the subjects in thamizh except english. sometimes they do learn english in thamizh :)
So, those government school teachers are not proficient in spoken english. But they are really really good in written english.
Teachers are good, but most of them are getting old. If government spends more money to modernize the schools and regularize the activities, then i think thats great.
Even government school kids do get good scores in Professional Colleges Entrance Exams etc. They dont prepare for GATE or GRE coz those kids are poor to get materials or prepare for those exams.

I wish i was a teacher. I love that job.

@sandy in kerala do they (government school kids) learn all subjects in malayalam??
I LOVE KERALA THAN ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD. ONE OF THE BEST PLACES TO STAY. My ideal place
If there was some nice companies like GE or HP in kerala, i will be the first person to move to that place

[Sandeep]

These kids in thamizh (government) schools learn all the subjects in thamizh except english. sometimes they do learn english in thamizh :)
So, those government school teachers are not proficient in spoken english. But they are really really good in written english.
Teachers are good, but most of them are getting old. If government spends more money to modernize the schools and regularize the activities, then i think thats great.
Even government school kids do get good scores in Professional Colleges Entrance Exams etc. They dont prepare for GATE or GRE coz those kids are poor to get materials or prepare for those exams.

I wish i was a teacher. I love that job.

@sandy in kerala do they (government school kids) learn all subjects in malayalam??

Yes there are both English medium and Malayalam Medium in Kerala. In English medium all subject papers are in english plus 2 language papers in english, 1 language paper in Hindi and 2 language papers in malayalam. But if you dont want to learn malayalam you can take french, Arabic or Sanskrit. In Malayalam medium there are 2 compulsory papers of English, one Hindi subjects are in malayalam. In short you cannot complete schooling if you dont learn English and Hindi but you can avoid malayalam.

On an average the malayalm medium students have better knowledge in individual subjects. Experts say that this is because children understand better in their mother tougue. Inspite that the malayalam medium students find it difficult to compete with English medium students at national level as well as when it comes to Jobs.

Because of this parents prefer English medium. Now all pvt schools are English medium and most Govt school are in malayalam.

I studied in a school where malayalam speeching was allowed only in Malayalam classes (No malayalam even in free time, or to friends).

[nirosha sen]

Yup, I would definitely recommend improving educational qualification as a 1st step to improving the plight of Tamil schools
That would indeed be Numero Uno in my books!! :x

I've come across too many Duds to name them, Pa!! :roll:

[annamalaifan]

Yup, I would definitely recommend improving educational qualification as a 1st step to improving the plight of Tamil schools
That would indeed be Numero Uno in my books!! :x

I've come across too many Duds to name them, Pa!! :roll:

there is only one way to destroy a race, its by not giving them education..........ghandhi

[shanthi]

:shock: Hi, I am new to this site. However, I have been following your discussion for a while and would like to add on.

I am currently stydying in the U.S. but used to be a S.Keb. teacher . I sent one of my sons to a tamil school and I have no complains about the school. In fact, I think both the principal and the teaching community were excellent. However, the student number was small and my son did not have any competition. He appeared to be getting full marks. then, I had to transferto another where there were no tamil schools and he had to join the mainstream system.

It was there I discovered that my son could not cope for he did not know the mathematics terminology, science terms, he could not cope with his tamil. He took him a year to adjust but his malay is still weak.

Now, he is coming to the U.S. and I see history repeating itself.

Well, just wanted to tell you that even when parents sent their children to tamil schools, we may not always get what we are loking for.

:( Hpe m view is acceptable.

Shanthi

[nirosha sen]

Yes, I agree with you Shanti on the Malay lessons not being up to the mark! They have 90 minutes in the whole week for BM and English respectively.

Problem is the Tamil option teachers do not have good grounding in both English and BM! Not all but a majority do have this problem. This shortcoming is the reason why the kids are not performing well. Only schools that do have English/Bm option teachers do well.

But I like their co-curricullur activities well. They do have good grounding in that!

[shanthi]

:) Well, I am glad you have a better experience than I did with tamil schools. It is certainly a sad situation. My son did not get to experience wonderful co-curricula activities either. I know the teachers did their best but it was just not enough. It works for really good children, but for the average and mediocre, parents may have to think twice. I am sorry, but I need to disagree here. Sometimes, one is forced to sent their children to other programs because we have to compete and learn from the other races. We have to flow with the tide, and yet avoid being blown away.

While some tamil schools may be better off, the majority have a smaller student population making it difficult to obtain funding. I have seen this happening in S.K. schools as well (in outskirts). The teachers do not care, but children learn- even if it means learning to fail. It is difficult for the morale of both students and teachers, especially when performance is low and teachers keep changing.

If students do well, it must be the effort of specific individuals. I have often noticed that it is the teacher's child who often shines (with the exception of a few where the parents take great interest). And, it is certainly heartwarming to hear of the exceptions.

Unfortunately, parents like me cannot afford to experiment with my child's education. If he needs to acquire tamil, I'll get him to take it as an additional subject when he is older. We can think of bringing up our race, only when we have made it in life.

Anyway, my main point being that, regardless of whatever the conditions of schools and administration, if one is worried about the welfare of tamil schools, the community or parents involved have to contribute besides the teachers. The Malaysian tamil schools need help, just like the Chinese schools (and the chinese parents really come out and help), but I know some schools which only want financial assistance from the parents, but disapprove when parents want to suggest or help with the running of co-curricula activities.

Here is Arizona, I see some good work being done on the deplorable conditions of the Hispanic children (I think they are like our indian kids in some situations). One notable work that I see working is as follows:
a) getting mediocre children to apply higher thinking skills through task based activities. What is interesting is that some of these children come from families where parents have little education, neglected homes and little financing. So, teachers and parents have to sign a pact - parents will see that a specfic assignment gets completed. The teachers inform the parents what is expected in oral/written form and it is upto the child and family to come up with the product. Here children get to talk to their parents about their schoolwork, and the interesting fact, is that it is showing positive results.

I guess my explanations are rather sketchy but I really feel that tamil schools cannot go far without the support of the parents involved. You'll really notice that a lot of parents are genuinely concerned about their children's performance, especially in the primary schools. Some might not even be intelligent enough, but they like being involved and this is probably how the schools draw the parents into their social structure. Once parents feel that their thoughts are being valued, they'll get the necessary support required.

Well, I see it working here, and I guess with a little collaborative thinking, we would be able to get there.


Shanthi

[Sandeep]

Whatever success India has made during the last 2 decades is largely because of the knowledge in English. So I would think its better to go for English education. In case of malaysia I think Malay medium seems to be the best for the communities growth.

As far as retaining our culture is conserned it has to be done from home and through cultural activities

[nirosha sen]

Yeah Sandeep - We were indeed making a headway in English in my days at English medium schools. But the ever so parochial, fundamentalists decided to make it their rallying cry as the evil of anything and everything that is colonial!!!!!

Therefore, the English language became an anachronism in a non-English country and had to make way for Malay as the medium of instruction in our schools. Top of that even our mission schools had to be nationalised where Malay teachers and school heads wield the rod to this very day!! :(

[sonu gopi]

Therefore, the English language became an anachronism in a non-English country and had to make way for Malay as the medium of instruction in our schools. Top of that even our mission schools had to be nationalised where Malay teachers and school heads wield the rod to this very day!! :(

They never let one place free from their grasp....a convent school now isn't like before neither does our other missionary schools....hmmm...those were the days!! :cry: :cry:

**********
SONU GOPI :evil:

[nirosha sen]

Yeah apart from Brother Ho of St Xavier's Institution, there are no more missionaries running the mission schools. They've all been taken over by the tide of change! Except for the secondary schools, the primary ones have all gone to the dogs!!

[nirosha sen]

hey guys - have you been following the papers lately???

Apparently, the census dept. has come up with a new figure saying that our population had declined by 2.5%!! On enquiry by MIC, to substantiate this figure as to how they came up with it, they had retorted that it was not due to declining birth rate but due to an increase of mortality in the community!!!!! :roll:

Some people have commented that it was to reduce our allocation in the 8th Malaysia Plan!!!! :x

Does anybody else know any better abt this???? :shock:

[shanthi]

Well, something tells me that this site is not developing and decided to say something. I do think that the indian population is diminishing. While statistics can be manipulated but I doubt that it is so in this case. We are a smaller grup.
While the mortality rate might be a contributing factor, we have to admit that we are not expanding in terms of birthrate as much as the other races. Perhaps, our initial figure was not that large to begin with, and we have to admit that the average indian family is getting smaller. What is worse is that I notice a lot of our youth getting involved in gangsterism and killing themselves making the situation worse.

Perhaps, inter marriages and people taking on their spouses racial status for their families could be another factor. Maybe, some feel that holding on to the indian identity might not be that beneficial for them anymore. I understand that some indians get married in East Malaysia and allow the children to take on the pri bumi status (for good reasons of their own), and this number cannot be dismissed as a periphery.

While, this diminishing percentage is cause for concern, I guess it has to do with the evolving nature of society and multiculturalism. It has sociopolitical implications which is beyond the powers of the average individual, unless families and larger organizations intervene.

I guess, only time will tell whether we gain unity through diversity or we get blown away with the sands of time.

[Sandeep]

Malaysian citizens - 94.1%

Of the total Malaysian citizens,


Ethinic group Yr-2000 Yr-1991
Bumiputera 65.1% 60.6%
Chinese 26.0% 28.1%
Indians 7.7% 7.9%

[Alisha]

Therefore, the English language became an anachronism in a non-English country and had to make way for Malay as the medium of instruction in our schools. Top of that even our mission schools had to be nationalised where Malay teachers and school heads wield the rod to this very day!! :(

They never let one place free from their grasp....a convent school now isn't like before neither does our other missionary schools....hmmm...those were the days!! :cry: :cry:

**********
SONU GOPI :evil:

Sonu Chechi,

The Seremban Convent school was moved to another place reason given that it was in centre of the town.

After many attempts, that area as gone to waste because they could not get rid of the water which kept coming and now it's a pool of water in the middle of the town.

[Alisha]

How are the Indians going to survive when we seem to be the first to go compared to the other races at an organisation.

Eventhough I have served this foreign establishment for 8.4 years I am asked to leave while they keep the rest of the people (Non Indian)

In every way, Indians seem to be the minority :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[nirosha sen]

I strongly feel that more educated Indians should at least be ordinary members of MIC, Pa!!! Even if we are not holding any prime positions, at least to make up the numbers we should have some show of solidarity!!!

There are Malays who reap the benefits from UMNO, but at heart they support PAS!!! So why can't we do the same????? At least in name, let's join MIC!!!

What do the rest of you think????

And Shanti, thanks for the nugget of information abt the inter-racial marriages!!! Kudos to Sandeep for the percentage break-down, Pa!!

[nirosha sen]

Poor Seremban Convent!!! The Sisters must have cursed them for demolishing their beloved school. That's why that area looks like a Cesspool now!!! :cry:

[sonu gopi]

Poor Seremban Convent!!! The Sisters must have cursed them for demolishing their beloved school. That's why that area looks like a Cesspool now!!! :cry:

As I said before they MUST thrust their noses into everything and spoil things for the rest! Who is there to do anything for us Indians - MIC?......that's a joke! :twisted: :twisted:

********
SONU GOPI

[nirosha sen]

hey people - does anyone know anything abt the no. of Indians affected by the tidal waves in the Northern states of Malaysia???? I just watched TV3 news and all I saw were only Nattans!!

How many of our people were saved or perished???? Any statistics available??? :shock: :? :(

[NOV]

The year 2005 seems to begin on a positive note for Tamil schools in the country. Reports are coming in that there have been an increase in enrolment in these schools for Year 1 students, throughout Malaysia.

In Klang, a Tamil school had over 300 new students registering there! Easily eight classes of 40 students each. Similar overwhelming numbers have been registered in many Tamil schools.

This is despite academic analysis which sounded the death knell for Tamil schools in the country.

What could be the reason behind this phenomena? Increased awareness? Islamisation of national schools? Alienation?

Whatever the reason, the fact remains that Tamil schools are now appealing to a greater proportion of the population.

The next logical step is to improve standards in the school, both facilities and teachers. The demand is already there. Where do we go next?

[NM]

NOV,

Yes, heard about the increased intakes in Tamil schools. This is GREAT news to all of us Indians. Looking at how the Indian students in Tanmils school are doing these days (7 A's etc ), I feel inclined to take up Tamil and do a teaching Degree in it , be a teacher and promote secondary schooling in Malaysia (similar to all the Chinese High schools). If we want to keep Tamil alive, we need to this - perhaps in the long run.

For now, yes, I agree we should step up the Tamil school conditions and improve the standard of Tamil schools... I don't have any idea yet on how we can do this, except by being a part-timer in the schools myself and see how I can help out .......wish I could quit my current job and concentrate on this effort...

[shakthi]

My father is a retired Tamil school headmaster. He had been a headmaster for at least 25 years before he retired mid of last year. Sad to say, however, none of his 5 children were enrolled in a Tamil school. We all went to Convent/Malay medium school. I have never really asked him why he didn't send us to a Tamil school but I vaguely remember him explaining to ppl who asked him this question that most of the Tamil schools are in a deplorable state (i.e. physically - no proper classrooms etc) and that there is a lack of trained teachers. I remember at one time, his school had 5 temporary teachers and only 3 fully trained teachers! I suppose he didn't want to take chances with his own children albeit he is always encouraging others to send their children to the Tamil schools!

Be it as it may, all 5 of us children attended the POL (Pupil/People's Own Language) classes and 2 of us took Tamil Language as an examination subject in SPM - we only passed. Only after I went to another state to do STPM (A-levels) did I fully start to appreciate the language and started (very painstakingly) to read Tamil novels and in less than a year, I was reading Mu Va's novels & enjoying them. I am not sure of the literary content of these novels but I truly started to love my mother tongue afer that!

Later, when I went to the varsity, I started to explore the language more and even started writing letters back home in Tamil. My mom was delighted as she could only read and write in Tamil.

I also met my husband in the university. He is a product of Tamil school. He took the language as an examination subject up till STPM - he scored a B in STPM and from what I understand that is quite an accomplishment.

To put it simply, he is very passionate of the Tamil language. He had always done well in school and went on to university though he is from a Tamil school. His best friend also from the same school went on to do medicine in University Malaya - this proves that Tamil school goers are also high achievers.

In fact once we were just doing a random census (unofficial) on the number of varsity mates in our year of intake (for all disciplines) and we were pleasantly surprised that out of the total (plus minus one or two) Indian students intake, nearly half had attended Tamil primary school! Another thing that we did notice is that those from Tamil school background are always more polite & less radical. (Hey, that doesn't mean that students from non-Tamil schools are rowdies!)

We only speak in Tamil to both our children. Now that my son has started kindy, we are starting to speak in English for him to familiarizewith it. We intend to send our children to a Tamil school. There is one school in Kulim, Kedah (about half an hour's drive from my house) where there are more than 1000 students (the average student population in the 500 odd Tamil schools in Malaysia is, I was told about 100+ only) and the performance of students are really good. A number of these students are children of professionals. I have also heard of another similar school in Masai, Johor.

Even though many of my cousins are against sending their children to Tamil schools ("difficult to catch up-lah" "they won't do well" are some of their concerns), we are not going to be swayed by their fears. Hopefully, more parents take up the stand to enrol their children in Tamil schools.

I know and realise that the situation cannot be changed overnight - but by keep lamenting on the Tamil school predictment, we are not going to change anything. 20 years ago when I was small, this was one of the plights and it continues to be the same. But by each of us doing/taking one step to ensure that the schools are maintained and further developed, in 20 years, who knows, we may have more tamil schools churning out high achievers.

A point to note, when I was still working in KL, my boss (a solicitor by profession) had adopted a Tamil school and had contributed a lot to the school in terms of buying computers, books etc. He also had gotten some of his friends to do the same. There was a marked improvement in the students' results after that. Why not more well heeled ppl do the same? Just adoptin one school will do.

Although I am open to all other languages, I strongly feel about Tamil - it may not hold much economic powers (as opposed to the Chinese dialects where sometimes knowledge of the same is essential to landing one a job) and may not get you anywhere in the political arena BUT it is my mother tounge & I love it!

Somethings are better told and better understood in Tamil.

Anyway, just my two cents worth .

[nirosha sen]

That was profound Shakti!! Please continue sharing your thoughts here. We'd love to hear more from you! :)

I started helping out at Renggam Tamil school a few years back. I used to go there twice a week to teach English phonics in order to help the kids recognise their English words. I taught there for abt 6 months before moving on to Perak. Now, I'm at my third Tamil school and carrying on.

What you said abt sending our kids to Tamil schools is good. It was the same words reflected by the senior assistant at Renggam. She said that if Tamil schools are to do well, the middle class too, should send their kids to them. Being better educated, we have the means to help these schools and speak up for them too.

I have now enrolled my daughter at our local Tamil school. But I got to admit, I have mixed feelings abt it. Primarily, because we speak fluent English at home and hence, the kids don't speak Tamil!! Yes, I'm guilty as charged, but perhaps I saw more economic value in English than Tamil. Even though, I help out at the same school as volunteer English teacher, I must admit that somehow, though she maynot be the worse for wear, she does lose out in some other essentials lacking at present .......

Will talk abt it more when the rest of you respond, too?????

[hehehewalrus]

Though I am not exactly part of the Indian diaspora like you all I am so glad to see such profound posts. Keep up the spirit and the practices people! Nice to see such broad minded folks.

[shakthi]

Kudos to you Nirosha! It takes a lot of nerve to do what you have done (sending your daughter to Tamil school)

Yes, I admit the children may lose out in certain areas. Now this is where we must start putting effort to rectify/improve the problems. One of the issues is of course learning English.

A classic example is the grammer issue - a student who speaks, reads, writes and thinks in Tamil may face problems in coming up with a proper sentence in English.

Eg.: Let's say I want to say I am eating rice. In Tamil it's "Naan saatham saapidukiren". For a person who thinks in Tamil, they may translate this in English to "I am rice eating" - which is of course wrong!

As the students in Tamil school have an extra language to learn (or rather learning subjects in 2-3 languages), then we the parents must try (at least) to provide them with more practices - send them for extra tuition or better still have extra classes in school where the parents can chip in and arrange for such classes. If we don't bother, I can bet you, no one will.

When I was working in KL, I was staying somewhere near Vivekananda tamil school in Brickfields - do you know that every year (while I was still there) the parents of UPSR students will gang up and arrange for extra classes in the last 1 or 2 months b4 the exam. Some are in charge of food, some transportation etc. This is what I call commitmment. I am not exactly sure of their results but I hear that many students of that school do very well some with flying colours.

Since we are putting our children in Tamil schools, it will be a special and important interest to us as our future (i.e. our children) are there - definitely I want my children to have the best thus I will be compelled to do stg about it.

Identify the problems and work towards solving it the best way.

I hope those reading this won't take it that I am being idealistic or not practical. To me if we really believe in what we are doing, then that action of ours will become successful.

I wish I can do what you are doing , Nirosha, but being in fulltime employment has left me with tied hands. But I do hope when I actually leave my job (hopefully in the next one year) I will able to contribute to the development of Tamil schools.

Well anyone else with examples of real life experiences helping out in improving the Tamil schools? I hope all of you can share - we can learn from each other.

[nirosha sen]

Thanks for that badge of honour, Shakti!! I am happy to do my bit for the Tamil schools. But I also would like to take time to tell the rest of you of my frustrations with these schools and their administrators, Pa!! But of course, for every cloud, there's a silver lining, so pray and hope they do change for the better!!

My very 1st grouse would be their teachers:-

Many of the them appear to be stuck in a groove, so to speak. Beyond their easy comprehension of just the Tamil language alone, which is geared for the primary school anyway, few really measure up to the normal yardstick.

I found teachers who apart from being poor in their grasp of BM and English (understandable considering the lack of foundation), are just as bad in Maths and Science. This in part is attributable to their lack of reading which I found much wanting. Despite, being fluent in Tamil, it is their appalling knowledge of education policies, new leaps in teaching methodology or even organisational skills that needs improvement. Perhaps, this may not be glaring in urban schools, but I've found a lot of such cases in the rurals where I am based.

Another area which needs redress, is their sense of lateral thinking. They appear to be limited in facing any new kind of challenges because of this blinkered vision that allows only the talk and chalk and precious little else.

Troubleshooting - a much flaunted word in management; but severely lacking in schools. This flaw is apparent in all schools, I must add. The SK schools too suffer from this malady. But in Tamil schools, due to their already lack of resources, appear even more glaring.

An example to quote here would be book review. Sure we have the regular prescribed textbooks which the Ministry dishes out, f.o.c.! But books in Bahasa, English and Maths are in many instances found to be beyond the comprehension of the poor Tamil school kids!! Because of the steep gradient of the textbooks, many children do not even bother to read and understand the contents.

So what can the Tamil school administrators and their teachers do???? By hunting for language books that brings the gradient of comprehension to the child's level, I'm sure they would make some headway somewhere. Otherwise, we see blank faces even in the intelligent child!

An oft quoted reason to bring in books from the open market would be, "Oh, the parents would be objecting as they're too poor to buy extra books in the book list!" So my recommendation is, "Don't force them. Buy the books using school resources or the PTA funds, and keep as in-class readers! Don't let the children take home the books. They can't be helped by illiterate parents anyway!"

For the above situation, I still await for that light at the end of the tunnel, People!! Your constructive comments are most welcome!!

[nirosha sen]

Anybody recently read abt Kulim Tamil School???? They've been inundated with new children for the 2005 intake, that they have no more classrooms to accomodate them!! :)

They even had to put up classes in car-sheds for make-shift class-rooms Pa!! Boy, looks like Indian parents have started a gentle revolution of self-awareness and not blindly pushing their kids into SK schools anymore!!!!

[NOV]

Niro, I saw your letter in NST on Pongal day. Good job of creating awareness!

[nirosha sen]

Thanks Nov! Every little bit of help counts!!

[nirosha sen]

Guys - Has anyone in Malaysia seen our very own production, Chemaan Chaalai by now??? I just read the review in today's NST!! Looks good and arty - my kind of movies minus the masaala!!

Somebody should turn "Shore to Shore" by Muthammal Palanisamy into a movie too, Pa!! Has all the elements of a family's struggle from poverty to the good life. Very inspiring for today's generation of Indians!

[aravindhan]

Somebody should turn "Shore to Shore" by Muthammal Palanisamy into a movie too, Pa!! Has all the elements of a family's struggle from poverty to the good life. Very inspiring for today's generation of Indians!

Nirosha-avargale, this is the second or third time you've mentioned this book, and what you've said has quite convinced me that I really ought to read it. Would you know how one can buy a copy, if one does not live in Malaysia?

[nirosha sen]

okay Aravindhan - Let me try to find out from our local book dealer here! This book is available at Silver Fish Bookstore, Bangsar, Kuala Lumpur though. But in India, I need to check it out locally first, okay????

Read it and then let me know, okay????

Or failing which, wait for the Tamil version to come out first, okay??? Mdm Muthamal is working on it still and I hear it's going to be more prolific in content as opposed to the English copy, as she's more fluent in Tamil.

[aravindhan]

This book is available at Silver Fish Bookstore, Bangsar, Kuala Lumpur though.

I see the Silver Fish Bookstore has a website... they say nothing about shipping out of Malaysia, but I've emailed them to find out if they can help. Fingers crossed...

Thanks for offering to find out, it's much appreciated.


Or failing which, wait for the Tamil version to come out first, okay??? Mdm Muthamal is working on it still and I hear it's going to be more prolific in content as opposed to the English copy, as she's more fluent in Tamil.

I think I'd actually like to read both. :D

[The Poltergeist]

In fact once we were just doing a random census (unofficial) on the number of varsity mates in our year of intake (for all disciplines) and we were pleasantly surprised that out of the total (plus minus one or two) Indian students intake, nearly half had attended Tamil primary school! Another thing that we did notice is that those from Tamil school background are always more polite & less radical. (Hey, that doesn't mean that students from non-Tamil schools are rowdies!)


Hi Shakti,

most Indian students who enter public universities are from Tamil schools. This is because those who don't attend Tamil schools - especially from the urban areas - opt to attend private colleges immediately after completing Form 5. There are other reasons as well. Pls feel free to indicate whether or not you are interested in further discussing this.

As for the less radical bit - with due respect - does this not mean not willing to take a chance? Could this also be the reason why a large number of Indian grads are not able to compete well in the job market?

Regards

[The Poltergeist]

I agree with Nirosha regarding the general disposition of Tamil school teachers. I believe some of you may be interested in this.


Hi,

Volunteers - Computer Literacy for Tamil School Teachers

We are a group of highly motivated volunteers who have begun a community initiative towards a comprehensive school renewal program for Tamil primary schools after completing an in-depth study. Our Tamil School Renewal Initiative comprises the comprehensive school renewal program for the seven (7) primary schools in the Kapar/Klang district. One of the sub-programs concerns elevating Computer Literacy amongst the teachers.

We are looking for volunteers to help in the training of the Tamil school teachers to improve their IT literacy. We need resource people both to formulate course content and to train the teachers on-site in their respective schools. Computers, Internet connections and LCD projectors are available. Apart from expert advice on courseware development, we need 12 trainers. Training will be conducted on the working Saturdays of the month. We envisage 6 sessions of 4 hours each on the working Saturdays of the month.

We hope to find more resource people to make this initiative a success. We hope this initiative can be shared with you and your friends too. Any help you could volunteer to offer so graciously will be highly appreciated. Also, please forward this mail to someone whom you know may be interested.
Thank you for your time reading this email and we hope to hear from you. If you need more information, please contact the School Renewal Initiative group at tamilschool@ranksolutions.com .
Regards,

Krishna


Appendix

The objectives of the program and the proposed draft courseware is as follows:


Objective :

i. To research, catalogue and share information available in Internet Resources using Web Browser.
- towards e-learning and “Information Technology in Teacher Education”
ii. To access from the internet, develop, use and share Teaching and Presentation Aids
- towards “Acquire Information Technology for Classroom Use”
iii. To communicate and exchange data with other teachers via the Email, FTP , User Group and Bulletin Board Services
iv. To self-image build “feel good” through Computer Literacy
v. To create and maintain simple database of routine data


Course Content (Draft) :

Microsoft Windows Courseware
Microsoft Windows XP basics
Microsoft Internet Explorer

WebMail
Yahoo Mail
- Private Folders
- Address Book
- Precaution against virus attachments
- Spam Protection
- Block Addresses
- Filters
- Message search
- cc ; bcc
- Sending and downloading attachments

User Groups
Yahoo Group

Bulletin Board

Internet Document Formats / Multi-Media formats
PDF - Acrobat Reader
PPT - Power Point
MP3 - Video
AVI - Video
Zip - WinZip

Virus and Spyware Precaution / Protection
Anti-Virus
AntiSpyware
Admin Privilege

Microsoft Application Courseware
Microsoft Word
Microsoft PowerPoint
Microsoft Access

Teaching Aid Preparation
Adobe Acrobat
Microsoft Movie Maker
Macromedia Flash or equiv.

Online Support Service

PC Hardware Support Service

[nirosha sen]

Poltergeist - How does the above link help Tamil schools??? Do they collate feedback from the public to be relayed to any think tank group???? I'd be more than happy to write to them if I knew more of their profile, Pa!!

My area of concern is curriculum development and its implementation. Without a proper platform to air our grouses, I feel only frustration dealing at school level alone.

[The Poltergeist]

It is a project to educate as well as motivate Tamil school teachers. It is also to encourage them to source for teaching materials through the Internet. The organisers found that most of these teachers were not able to do so due to their poor command of the English language.

So if you know of any English teachers in KL, PJ or Klang who are willing to offer their services twice a month - please let me know.


:twisted:

[nirosha sen]

Dear Poltergeist,

Did you know that there are British teachers who are posted to the District Offices of Education (PPD), to help come up with programmes for the improvement of English learning???

Try : www.cfbt.com.my. They'll be able to help you with more information on how to come up with simple learning projects for both teachers and children. Matter of fact, they are already doing it at district level for many schools. If you have any specific questions, go ahead and ask them. :)

[nirosha sen]

Hi! long time no hear on our issues. So decided to put in a few words of observation on current affairs.

What's in store to date : vision schools!! Sam wants to revive them, Pa!! What do you guys have to say????

How transparent are our exam results???? I mean do you believe in this new fangled phenomenon of 17 As????!!! :roll:

[a.ratchasi]

Hi! long time no hear on our issues. So decided to put in a few words of observation on current affairs.:

Good job, Niro.


What's in store to date : vision schools!! Sam wants to revive them, Pa!! What do you guys have to say????

This is just another visionless "vision".
All these visions (read temporary solutions) are nothing but a pretense. What is the point of having a 'vision' when even the basic education structure is improper?



How transparent are our exam results???? I mean do you believe in this new fangled phenomenon of 17 As????!!! :roll:
This is nothing but a joke!Perhaps, the girl was just aiming an entry into the Malaysian book of records!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Transparent?Niro?tansparent? :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a serious note:
Our education system has deteorated so badly so much so even an average student is performing below average.

[nirosha sen]

Well, they're beating their drums again, now that MCA has put in requests for more Chinese schools for the umpteenth time! Why oh why doesn't Sam doesn't join in and demand on behalf of Tamil schools as well. If not more schools at least, for maintenance, Pa!!

Those racists in Parliament, should know enough exactly how many of their cronies are sitting in schools as school heads. And they want integration when nothing is secular in the way they run schools?????!!! What gall!!!!

[nirosha sen]

Hi! For those interested in what's happening : mggpillai.com is the place to visit, Pa!!