HUMAN - VALUES.!. Out-dated.?

[Sudhaama]

.
. HUMAN - VALUES.!. Out-dated.?

HUMAN-VALUES is the the Foundation-Concept for FAMILY-VALUES

---which is the Subsequent Footing for SOCIAL-VALUES

Ones Self-Principle shapes and develops the Human- Spirit of Family-Values which is an Integral part of Social-Values.

Ones Personal principle is exhibited to others towards the Fore on his approach on Family-Values to start with.

So let us have an Analytical look on how the Spirit of Human-Values is translated into Reality in the present Generation of the Contemporary era.

And is it proper and Better than the erstwhile approach of our previous Generations.?

(1) One section of the present Generation.. especially amongst the Youth, think...

The Family and Family-values are MEANINGLESS... and ARTIFICIAL BINDINGS...

...based on the Elders' Outdated Approach... due to GENERATION-GAP.

Consequently it results in unsought for ADVICES and DOMINATIONS..

...as also unnecessary INTERFERENCES by our Seniors / Elders... on our Individualities...

.. restricting our Freedom of Decision-making... causing avoidable Impediments..

... in Achievement on our Personal Ambitions and Individual Principles irrespective of the Elders self-will.

After all, our Seniors Ripe-age is over... since retired from their Profession/ Occupation.

They may not be physically capable of the due Brainwork.. due to age...

...to Analyse, Discern, and Advise us... as the Best Solution or for any Problem-Shooting... in our present day Life of Youth.

As we are capable of independantly succeeding in our profession...

...independantly earning for our Livelihood and Advancement...

..independantly manage with the Society and the Government..

..we are capable of independantly analysing, choosing and deciding on our personal Life too in all respects.

...even though we are their Sons and Daughters... but now the GROWN UP BIRDS ..

... capable for Independant Free-fly and making Life of our own choice and direction.

So let the Seniors of our erstwhile Family... viz Father and Mother...

...totally RETIRE from the Family Life as well as Decision-making on others affairs.

Similarly our Brothers and Sisters... are of their own Individual Families

Let them independantly fly on their own... without interfering with their Brethren...

...nor we are interested to interfere in their Life matters... being their PRIVATE AFFAIRS

So let our Brethren too keep off.

When the close Blood-relations... Parents and Brethren themselves are thus ALIENATED...

...the Question of Relatives... even the Seniors... does not arise

So we Brethren go for THANI-KUDITHANAM... each one as different Separate Young families...

..leaving our Seniors / Parents in Old-Age Home... Let them enjoy their Retired Life there... all aloof.!!

(2) Contrarily the other Section of the Youth think different...

There is an inexplicable pleasure by Mutual Love in Living as a Family of Parents Brothers, Sisters, Children and Grand-children.

A Family means a Team to face the problems of each and every member concerned JOINTLY AND COLLECTIVELY.

By such an United approach not only we gain greatest strength but also feel our Life-burden lightened.

And on our every problems... when several brains consider independantly... we gain wide choice of ideas by varied Wisdom sorts.

Especially our Seniors / Elders... our Parents are after all our WELL-WISHERS...

They have understood and evaluated us INTIMATELY and MINUTELY...

...right from our Seed stage upto the present stage of Ripeness by Youth...

...such that they know of us very much more... about us.

..as much as a Medical Doctor... knows and can judge the Health of his Patient...

...more than the Patient on himself.

Similarly our Parents and other Elders in our Family know us more

...than what we know about ourselves.

So we gain such an additional benefit towards my present and Future Life advantage.

After all they are my Whole-hearted WELL-WISHERS...

I do not lose anything by just hearing their Advices and Warnings... but DECIDE ON MY OWN.

In the Contemporary Society the Former Category are more found in the so called Advanced Countries... such as US, France, Germany, and UK.

..Whereas the latter category we find more in Asian Countries especially Korea, Thailand, China, Japan and India [especially amongst Sindhis, Gujarathis, Marwaris and Maharashtrians]...

..as also Italy, Switzerland, Greece, Austria and Canada.

Shall we exchange our Thoughts.?
.

[Bipolar]

I think the second category are better.

Well, family values... just because I wish to make my own decisions, doesn't mean I don't respect my elders. I do respect them, and I do value their opinions, but the fact is that the world I live in is very different from the world in which my elders grew up... it's a smaller world now, and people have different aims in life. People have different expectations from life, and things which were not possible before are possible now, so people think differently. Twenty years ago, or even ten years ago, people had fewer options. The traditional path was education :arrow: employment :arrow: arranged marriage :arrow: children :arrow: family life :arrow: cycle repeats itself with the next generation. Men were bread-winners, women were home-makers. But these days, there are more options available, at least to the middle and upper classes. Both men and women have job opportunities, more cash to spend, more materialistic comforts to enjoy (it's all available now, thanks to economic liberalisation and globalisation or whatever you want to call it, it's a different world now, different from how it used to be). People give more importance to professional and career success. People have different priorities in life. Of course, certain things won't change, so we do need to take into consideration the wealth of experience that our elders have. But the elders should also understand that not all the rules they followed are still applicable today. Some of the rules have changed.


They have understood and evaluated us INTIMATELY and MINUTELY...

I am sorry, but I (respectfully) disagree with you on this. Many parents think they understand their children well. But I don't think so... A lot of parents probably don't even have any idea about simple things like what films their children like, what music they like, what games they like, etc. Because they don't bother to find out!!! They try to encourage their children to be like them, i.e. they try to encourage their children to take an interest in the same things that interest them, e.g. a person who plays the violin will probably encourage his children to learn it too, a person who practises Hatha Yoga will probably also encourage his children to follow that. If his children are more interested in playing basketball or in listening to heavy metal music, he will not encourage that. And he will probably not make any effort to understand why his children are more interested in basketball/heavy metal, etc. He will probably just blame the "generation gap". So I don't think that shows any understanding/evaluation.

You can't understand or analyse someone if you haven't been in the same situation(s) as them. For example, when my friend's parents were growing up, they watched films with Sivaji Ganesan, Savitri, Nagesh, etc. They grew up with music from MS Viswanathan, AM Raja, KV Mahadevan, etc. When they were young, religion was a fairly important part of their life. They did not have the things that their son (my friend) had during his childhood - TV, American/European films, TV shows, teen magazines, etc. His parents find it difficult to understand why he's not so interested in religion (he feels that he has science, he doesn't feel he needs religion very much). His parents don't understand why he is so interested in computer games, western music, etc. He can't accept why his parents have so much faith in things like astrology, etc. We Indians are still bothered by things such as the influence of the moon or Saturn on our stars ("Chandra dhisai", "Sani dhosham"etc.) while Americans, Europeans, the Chinese and the Japanese are actually sending satellites and landers to the moon and the other planets. My friend is more interested in learning about that kind of scientific stuff, but his parents don't seem to appreciate the importance of that. They just want him to complete his education, get married and "settle down". They just want him to walk the same path that they followed. They don't seem to understand that to him, there are other things in life that he considers far more important.
How are we supposed to accept that our parents and elders have understood us minutely?

[Meera-ssg]

As long as families dont poke their long nose, into the private affairs of kids, its fine enough. Parents supposedly has good amout of right to do so. After a point of time, it should be left to the individual's decisoin. Why do u think they say u can vote after 18? When you are qualified enough to choose ur country leader, u can as well take minor or major decisions in your life. Enough can be educated, but if it goes into deaf ears, valued cannot be coerced upon. ADVICE but dont ORDER.

[pavalamani pragasam]

:D :lol: :rotfl:

[Sudhaama]

.
. River or FLOOD.?




They have understood and evaluated us INTIMATELY and MINUTELY...

I am sorry, but I (respectfully) disagree with you on this. Many parents think they understand their children well. But I don't think so... A lot of parents probably don't even have any idea about simple things like what films their children like, what music they like, what games they like, etc. Because they don't bother to find out!!!

Dear "Bipolar"

I fully agree with you.

But you have MISUNDERSTOOD me...

What I had mentioned in my Introduction is... Two Opposite sorts of Image and Impressions...

...from Two different segments of contemporary Youth

...for which each of them have rendered their justifications.

On both the sides in general... there are points COMMONLY ACCEPTABLE ...

...such as Generation Gap (if exists in the respective case)... Domination (if it happens in Individual cases)... Interference (if so)... Deterioration of Brain-energy due to Aging.

But there are EXEMPLARY CASES of Successful Youth... who could manage well...

... overcoming all such shortcomings of his Parents... by duly convincing them and ultimately EARNED THE BEST from the Parents too.

My Statements in the Introduction do not Generalise all the Parents....

...NOR DEFEND the Seniors approach blindly in all cases.

After all... both the sides have their OWN BOUNDARIES... and Functional areas...

...and Reciprocal Duties / Commitments.

So long the Water flows within its bounds of CHANNEL... it is termed as River and duly honoured...

..but if it overflows or crosses its banks / boundaries it loses its name as River...

..but gets a different Name... as FLOOD... an UN-WELCOME TREND.!!!

In such an eventuality... the Flood water is kept off by a Barrage...

... Prevented from anymore Upsurge and INVASION on others areas and...

... Shown a Different direction by Diversion...

...losing its HONOUR and HOLINESS as River anymore.!!!
.

[wrap07]

Parents always have the best of interests for their children. Though the outlook towards life or way of life has changed, the relationship between parents and children is vital part of any kid's upbringing and his activities in society. Parants may look outdated or may be misunderstood but they want their children to be happy. It is this love and worry for the child that makes them instransigent at times. True that Parents want to decide what their children should be but I think that is a thing of the past. Nowadays, whether Children have the patience or time to listen to their parents is a mute question.

Our elders have followed a system wherein each kid grows up to become a morally upright and good soul. Science without religion will only lead to anarchy. In spite of so many scientific advancements, we are yet blind folded by certain unnatural happendings which has no scientific answer. Even the most advanced countries could nothing before natural disasters.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Parents always have the best of interests for their children. Though the outlook towards life or way of life has changed, the relationship between parents and children is vital part of any kid's upbringing and his activities in society. Parants may look outdated or may be misunderstood but they want their children to be happy. It is this love and worry for the child that makes them instransigent at times. True that Parents want to decide what their children should be but I think that is a thing of the past. Nowadays, whether Children have the patience or time to listen to their parents is a mute question.

Our elders have followed a system wherein each kid grows up to become a morally upright and good soul. Science without religion will only lead to anarchy. In spite of so many scientific advancements, we are yet blind folded by certain unnatural happendings which has no scientific answer. Even the most advanced countries could nothing before natural disasters.

:yes:

[anbu_kathir]

How many people really 'know' what is best for themselves? In my view thats a miniscule percentage of the human population. I wholeheartedly agree that parents have the best interests for children. But almost everyone in the society proceeds out of prior mental conditioning.

I think that it is more important to be a 'free' soul, than a 'good' soul, I believe this is what our ancient traditions have stressed, but in several ways been misunderstood and hence misused.

Good or bad is based on conditioning and is subject to change with time. However being 'free' is a totally different thing and there's nothing equivalent to it in the world of dualities.

Solutions of great clarity and perfection can come only out of a person who is free, who does not react to conditioning but comes from inner wisdom alone. Of course, being disciplined, not having bad qualities, habits etc, help in becoming free, but that is all there is to them. They are a means to a state of liberation.

Any 'following', without inner wisdom, does not create clarity but only more confusion, and is ultimately detrimental. Be it religion, science, or anything else.

Love and Light.


Parents always have the best of interests for their children. Though the outlook towards life or way of life has changed, the relationship between parents and children is vital part of any kid's upbringing and his activities in society. Parants may look outdated or may be misunderstood but they want their children to be happy. It is this love and worry for the child that makes them instransigent at times. True that Parents want to decide what their children should be but I think that is a thing of the past. Nowadays, whether Children have the patience or time to listen to their parents is a mute question.

Our elders have followed a system wherein each kid grows up to become a morally upright and good soul. Science without religion will only lead to anarchy. In spite of so many scientific advancements, we are yet blind folded by certain unnatural happendings which has no scientific answer. Even the most advanced countries could nothing before natural disasters.

[wrap07]

It is great for children for that matter anyone to become a free soul. But to be a free soul, they must be imbibed the basis qualities and values which can only lead them to be free soul. It is not so easy as it is made out to be. A good soul can ponder over things, balance right and wrong, fine tune the right things and then can aspire to become a free soul.

Children need to be taught or advised as the case may be the, values and right things. We cannot expect children to understand idealistic thoughts though there are some exceptions.

Our traditions and religion has ample scope for questioning anything and everything. We are never shut out. By repeated pondering and resultant thought process, people can achive greater heights.

[sarna_blr]

The one of the best fwds I have received!!

A professor stood before his Philosophy class and had some items in front of him.

When the class began, wordlessly, he picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls.

He then asked the students if the jar was full.

They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar.

He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls.

He then asked the students again if the jar was full.

They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar.

Of course, the sand filled up everything else.

He asked once more if the jar was full.

The students responded with a unanimous "yes."

The professor then produced two cups of coffee from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar, effectively filling the empty space between the sand.

The students laughed.

"Now," said the professor, as the laughter subsided, "I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life.

"The golf balls are the important things - your God, family, your children, your health, your friends, and your favorite passions - things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full.

"The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, and your car.

"The sand is everything else--the small stuff.

"If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued, "there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls.

"The same goes for life.
"If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you.

"Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness.

Play with your children.

"Take time to get medical checkups.

"Take your partner out to dinner.

"Play another 18.

"There will always be time to clean the house and fix the disposal.

"Take care of the golf balls first, the things that really matter.

"Set your priorities.

"The rest is just sand."

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the coffee represented.

The professor smiled. "I'm glad you asked.

"It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a cup of coffee with a friend."

[Waterloo]

Hello all

New member . Find this topic interesting. Let me read all messages before I post mine.

[anbu_kathir]

What you said is so true in my view too, wrap07.


Our traditions and religion has ample scope for questioning anything and everything. We are never shut out.

This, I think, varies from person to person, family to family.

Love and Light.


It is great for children for that matter anyone to become a free soul. But to be a free soul, they must be imbibed the basis qualities and values which can only lead them to be free soul. It is not so easy as it is made out to be. A good soul can ponder over things, balance right and wrong, fine tune the right things and then can aspire to become a free soul.

Children need to be taught or advised as the case may be the, values and right things. We cannot expect children to understand idealistic thoughts though there are some exceptions.

Our traditions and religion has ample scope for questioning anything and everything. We are never shut out. By repeated pondering and resultant thought process, people can achive greater heights.

[Sudhaama]

.
.SEETHAYANA Clarifies.!!



Our traditions and religion has ample scope for questioning anything and everything. We are never shut out. By repeated pondering and resultant thought process, people can achive greater heights.

Yes. Hindu Epics and Traditions have categorically analysed and well- clarified.

We have ample Demonstrations and MORAL LESSONS for understanding the Worth of Earthly Life..

.. as well as the practical Answer to the Question: What is meant by FAMILY VALUES.?..

Whether one believes our Indian Epics as true or not...

..even if treated as Fictions or just Stories...

..the MEANINGFUL ROLES of Seniors in every Family...

... and how their Involvement, Leadership and Participation in a Family has to be availed and taken the best advantage...

...by the Children and Youth... in their own Current and Future interests.

The Great wonder is...

God Himself has demonstrated by commiting Mistakes too and showed to Humanity...

.."Look my dear Humans, whenever I did right and properly adhering to Righteousness the Dharma...

..our whole Family enjoyed the outcome... we are glorified adding fame to us.

Contrarily when anyone of us commit any mistake, the eventuality affects the whole family... including ourselves..

..causing Misery and Ill-fame... to the Defaulter

So dear Humans LEARN from our PRACTICAL DEMONSTRATIONS on Family Values also...

For example...

In Uthara Ramayana.. as the last Scene... when Rama comes to know Kusa -Lava... as his Sons...

..and the whole past episode behind...

Rama feels elated and proud. Then he asks them to return to Ayodhya...

... prior to which... Seetha should perform one more Agni-pravesa..

...to prove to the World... on her UNBLEMISHED status even after being in exile in the forest. .. parted from her Husband.

Then for the first time... Seetha questions Rama...

"When I was under the forced custody of an evil character Ravana.. the Morality demands to prove my unaffected purity.

So I performed Agni-pravesa then and fulfilled your expectations from your innocent wife of unculpable character.

But now contrarily... in the present case.. You have left me in the forest... totally unaware...

..and I have sought the Refuge and Protection under Valmiki... A SAGE... Still you doubt on my purity.?

My dear Husband, You are Great. And so I honour You. But will you please clarify my doubts....

..When you have well-performed all your other ROLES and Duties as the Son, Brother, King, Citizen as well as a Creation to God...

..may I know whether you have duly performed COMPLETELY AND BLOTLESSLY....

... Your OTHER MAIN DUTIES...as a True Husband and a responsible FATHER .?

Lord Rama, her Husband could not answer.!!

Sorry my dear Husband... You have miserably failed in your duties to YOUR SONS as their Father...

..which sort of Additional responsibility of Father also I had to shoulder...

And instead of appreciating me under these two aspects...

..as well as introspection on your injustice meted out to your own wife... especially when she was pregnant...

You are asking to prove my unblemished status...

...Oh my Great Husband.. I cannot live with you anymore. I have handed over your children in a well grown-up stage. Further you please take care of them...

..as their MOTHER TOO...

..as I performed as their FATHER TOO... so far"

"Oh.! My Great Mother Earth. Please take me back to your Laps"

The Earth breaks and the Bhoomi devi mother takes her Daughter Seetha...

...along with her affectionately as Her Mother.

Thus Seethayana... Oh Ramayana exhibits to Humanity...

..that we should be balanced and duly INVOLVED on all the Spheres of Human-commitments...

...without foregoing or forgetting our Main duties and the FAMILY VALUES...

...as Father, Mother, Children... plus GRAND-PARENTS...

...of ONE TEAM as One Family.

..which is the BASIC COMMITMENT for every Human.

Even Gods are NOT EXCEPTIONS.!!!
.

[Sudhaama]

.
.


"Let us LEARN from Ancient Indians of HUMAN-ORIGIN...

--on the CONCEPT OF HUMANITY !"


--Said the GERMAN Multi-faceted Scholar... Dr Max Muller.!!!



Yes. such a HUMAN-CONCEPT is the so called Human-values.!

What does it mean.?

The sense of Human-Values starts with the MOTHERLY SPIRIT.

Secondly the Family-Values... within Ones own Family.-- comprising of Parents, Brothers and Sisters--- during early days...

Then, after Marriage, the Family comprising of Husband & Wife, Children and Grand-parents.

Why so.?


(1) Wisdom alone cannot ENRICH LIFE--- HEARTY SPIRIT is equally important...

...as One amongst the Pair of Eyes...

---intended to show the Third dimension... the DEPTH OF LIFE...

..which alone can make anybody's Life MEANINGFUL, PURPOSEFUL...

... as well as HAPPY AND SUCCESSFUL.!

Are we following and practicing such a Healthy Code of Life... now-a-days.? How far.? How many amongst us.?

Most of us are BLINDLY FOLLOWING the Western Culture...

"You my wife... and I your Husband... only mean the Family.

--Even our Children are our Burden... However we will share their problem of Bringing up upto some extent... Then let them take care of themselves.!

Our Children's Marriage.?...

Oh it is THEIR PERSONAL AFFAIR... PRIVATE MATTER. So let them choose their match of consort and Live as they like.

...and wander as STRAY DOGS as they like---like Wagabonds or Hyppies.... Let us not bother.

...and the MOST IMPORTANT point... Even myself NOT YOURS for ever... Nor You need be mine for ever...

---we can CHANGE AND EXCHANGE our Couplehood ---


---Because the Marriage is ONLY FOR SEX--- Nothing beyond.!


--similar to Animals and Birds.!

And let we couple lead our Life as Animals enjoy... without any Sense and Spirit as Husband and Wife...

---but just as SEX-MATES.!"

Indian TRADITIONAL Culture.... NOT GOOD for the Contemporary Humanity.?

Yes. Since the Indian Culture is an ANCIENT--- OUT-DATED.... TRIBAL CULTURE.?

But the Western Culture is THE MOST MODERN and Updated Culture...

---APT AND BEST APPLICABLE -- for the Present day Mankind.?

Then can we say thar Dr Max Muller is the WISEST IDIOT.?...

....as some of the Scholars laughed and ridiculed at him.!



"Oh Indian.!... the SAVAGE CULTURE.. Ha Ha Ha.!!!"



.Is it so.?

.

[Sudhaama]

.

.

PRE-MARITAL SEX -- Not Immoral.?


..Dignified Culture of HUMAN-VALUES.?


-- Not LOSS OF CHARACTER.?



Cine-Star Kushboo has been acquitted by Indian Supreme Court---

--- in 22 Cases of Criminial Charges... of alleged HUMAN-CHARACTER ASSASSINATION on Indian Human- Cultural Values---

--- By means of her ADVOCATION and PROPOGATION for PRE-MARITAL SEX.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/04/29/stories/2010042951060100.htm

Courtesy The Hindu.

Two Simple Questions--- To the Protagonists for Pre-Marital Sex

Please let us know.--

(1) Will you allow your Daughters and Sisters to have Pre-Marial Sex.?

(2) Will You accept whole-heartedly a Lady to become YOUR WIFE or Your Daughter-in-Law---

---who had varied affairs of Pre-Marital sex with several Males prior to her Marriage.?---

---at par or in preference to a Virgin.?


Quo-Vadis India.? (whereto You India Go.?)

.
.

[raagadevan]

Kushboo didn't direct remark at any person or group: court

http://www.hindu.com/2010/04/30/stories/2010043063021500.htm

[Sudhaama]

.

Should Indian Marriage-Market become dry?


-- and Bereft of Clean Virgins at all...


--- prior to Marriage at Youth stage in India.?






Kushboo didn't direct remark at any person or group:

- Supreme court


http://www.hindu.com/2010/04/30/stories/2010043063021500.htm




May be She did not address anybody or a Group..!

If it were so-- it would have been taken up as AN INSULT... to an Individual or a Group only...

--since it is applicable only to the Specific person.!

But addressing the whole Indian Society by a Popular LADY... whose words are considered as Gospels by some Cine Fans...

--is it NOT AN INSULT to the Indian Society..?

Validation of an IMMORALITY.?...

...Misdirecting the Innocent Youth towards LOSE CHARACTER.?

If popular personages start propogating such vicious ideas amongst the Youth...

---towards creation of DEMORAL Society---A CULTURAL DETIORATION.

---then what will happen.? Let us imagine.!

Already our Indian Youth are getting gradually tempted towards Western DUBIOUS Modernities.

Let the Indian Youth think awhile.!

Do they want the whole Indian Society to get polluted, becoming character-less by UTTER IMMORALITY.?

Should the Indian Marriage Field become dry and bereft of Virgins at all... prior to Marriage at Youth stage.?

Even after Marriage.. it is a very bad practice of IMMORALITY.
.
And before Marriage it is A VERY GRAVE PRACTICE...

--to Provocate or Propogate ILLEGITIMATE SEX... prior to Marriage.

Eventually the whole Indian Society will become Sick mentally and Physically.!

.Let the Protoganists reply to my Two questions raised in my previous posting.

Then we can know... what sermons they preach only to Others.!

.

[pavalamani pragasam]

She is a deity worthy of a temple built for her! And her gospels worthily upheld/propagated by the Supreme Court! A shame! A shame to waste one's time and energy over such 'solemn' matters! :huh:

[joe]

. whose words are considered as Gospels by some Cine Fans... .

அப்படி சில பேர் இருந்தா அவங்களுக்கு நல்ல மருத்துவரா பார்த்து சிகிச்சை கொடுக்கணுமே தவிர அவங்களுக்காக தீர்ப்பு எழுத முடியாது.

[joe]

[tscii:35db3ef7f5]மறுபடியுமா ? :lol:

இப்போ கோர்ட் என்ன சொல்லிப் போட்டாங்க :roll: ”குஷ்பு சொன்னது ரொம்ப அற்புதமான கருத்து ..நாட்டுக்கு ரொம்ப பயனுள்ளது .அரசாங்கம் இந்த கருத்தை பரப்ப ஒரு வாரியம் அமைச்சு மக்களுக்கு கொண்டு போகணும் “ இப்படி சொல்லிட்டாங்களா என்ன? :roll:

குஷ்பு சொன்னது ஒரு கருத்து ..அது நல்ல கருத்தா ,கெட்ட கருத்தா -ன்னு கோர்ட் முடிவெடுத்து சொல்லுற மாதிரி இல்ல .அவர் கருத்தால நேரடியா யாரும் பாதிக்கப்படலை .அதனால இதுக்காக அவரை தண்டிக்க முடியாது -ன்னு சொல்லிருக்காங்க.

இதை புரிஞ்சுக்க அத்தனை கஷ்டமா? :roll: [/tscii:35db3ef7f5]

[pavalamani pragasam]

appadi cut and right-aa solli pOy vElaiya paarungappaa, ithayellaam perusaa eduththukittu-nnu sollalaiyE supreme court!!! ammaNi sonna aRputhamaana karuththukkaLai( avarukkillaatha 'suthanthiramaa? :rotfl3: )appadi silaakiththu vazakku pOttavarkaLai kaNdiththu, nakkaladiththu theerppu ezuthaNumaa, enna?

[app_engine]

லோக்கல் கோர்ட் நீதிபதிகளுக்கும், ஐகோர்ட் நீதிபதிகளுக்கும் இனிமேற்பட்டு இப்படிப்பட்ட வெட்டி விவகாரங்களுக்கு எப்படித்தீர்ப்புச்சொல்லி வேறு உருப்படியான வேலை செய்யணும்னு சுப்ரீம் கோர்ட் கொஞ்சம் ட்ரெயினிங் கொடுத்தா ரொம்பப்பிரயோஜனம்!

(அதை விட்டுட்டு இவங்களும் 'குந்திதேவி, பாஞ்சாலி' - ஸாரி அதெல்லாம் இழுக்கலையோ - இந்தக்'கண்ணன் - ராதை'ன்னெல்லாம் புராணம் பாடுறதைக்குறைக்கலாம்)

[Sudhaama]

.

...Shifted.
.

[P_R]

அரசாங்கம் இந்த கருத்தை பரப்ப ஒரு வாரியம் அமைச்சு மக்களுக்கு கொண்டு போகணும் :lol:
Possibly related news (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/I-am-a-Congress-fan-wouldnt-hesitate-in-accepting-a-political-platform/articleshow/5870571.cms) :-)

[Sudhaama]

.
.

Let us discern...

...the LEGAL Aspect, from SOCIAL Aspect


It is out of Scope of our discussion here...

...either on the Legal-veracity or justification or the sense of Supreme court Judgement.

Because the Courts approach, evaluation of the cases and Judgements are ENTIRELY IN THE LEGAL ASPECT...

..Based on Indian Laws and Constitution.

So by means of the Supreme court Judgement, we are lead to understand what the Legal purview has got to say on this Public Anomoly...

...Causing a SOCIAL INJURY to the Indian Society on the whole...

..as well as the Great Culture of Pride and Elation

...backed by the Global recognition and approbation of thousands of years traditionally...

..as the Connoissers and Emulative Leaders for the World Society on Human Values... discerning from Beastly behaviours.

Example: The Great German Scholar Dr Max Mullers findings on Indian people and Ancient culture by HUMAN-VALUES.

So, now we are here concerned only in the Social aspect.


In the name of MODERNITY AND ADVANCEMENT...


...Can we allow this Kushboo-Idea to be VALIDATED ...in the Social Angle.?

Is it not a VICIOUS ENCROACHMENT plus a JACKAL Thrust of Immorality...

...to develop and thrive in India...

...aimed towards our Youth of Integrity...

...already enriched by our School-Education of Moral Values...

... backed by Family- inculcation on Human-character shaping and Code of Self-conduct.???

Is it good or better for we Indians.?

...especially for the Posterity.?...

.. towards better Humans of Real Happiness and Success in Life.?

.

[joe]

அரசாங்கம் இந்த கருத்தை பரப்ப ஒரு வாரியம் அமைச்சு மக்களுக்கு கொண்டு போகணும் :lol:
Possibly related news (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/I-am-a-Congress-fan-wouldnt-hesitate-in-accepting-a-political-platform/articleshow/5870571.cms) :-)

aahaa :lol:

I am a great fan of Congress - Kushbu
Is Congress a IPL team? :lol:

[app_engine]

Sudhamaji,

Some loose comments by SC actually touched about stuff not strictly related to law books.

That was the Radha-Krishna stuff.

As much as you can draw german etc for appreciation for Indian culture / family values etc, strictly on the question of "sex-morality" thingy, Indian culture -i.e. if we broadly call whatever exists within the geographical country as "Indian culture"- is pretty confused (as clearly observed by SC).

There is this -oruvanukku oruththi- sex only within marriage - ozhukkam - kaRpu and such moral teachings that are meticulously taught and followed by one section of society (possibly the majority of middle class and below which definitely forms majority of Indians - regardless of religious beliefs- who knows, it may be 80% or even higher).

OTOH, there are also other forms of "culture" that find acceptance both in mythology / religion and everyday lives - i.e. more than one wife, live together without an official marriage etc (at least some groups among most religions, tribals, atheists etc - you can look around and see lakhs of examples - though possibly minority, this is not a small number)

It's not surprising that the law of the country only controls what happens AFTER MARRIAGE - that too based on one's declared religion or the marriage act that one registers with and should conform to - and nothing prior to that (unless rape / child abuse etc are involved).

That is because, any law code book of a country is just a set of rules that a group of people put together - after counsulting what their "holy books" say plus what is prevalent in the society.

So, this superiority complex - we're Indians and we're "morally" (i.e. in the sexual context) greater than west - is on a shaky foundation.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:4c8ee5d851]



Welcome My dear “app”

---for Your HEALTHY and INTERESTING plus VALID Points--



appRECIABLE, appROPRIATE, appOSITION.








Some loose comments by SC actually touched about stuff not strictly related to law books.

That was the Radha-Krishna stuff.



I have not gone through it. However if any person-- even if he be a Judge,

---misjudges or under-rates the Greatness of Indian Culture established by its RICH HERITAGE--

--I just pity him.. for his IGNORANCE on true Vedic Concept of Human-Values --

--not only by the dint of Religion, but also as Man the Supreme Creature on Earth--

---excelling all other Living-beings in each and every aspect of mundane Life on Earth..

Yes in the Global perspective too-- by the Sense of Mankind.!

One simple point on Radha-Krishna ROMANCE.!

Such Krishna-leelas at Brindavana ends within the Bala-Krishna’s age of Boyhood of just TEN YEARS !

--Radha and other Gopika Girls too were of such Childhood age

What Sexual affair has got to do here ? --

--except the Sanctity of Soul-spirit.!





As much as you can draw german etc for appreciation for Indian culture / family values etc, strictly on the question of "sex-morality" thingy, Indian culture -i.e. if we broadly call whatever exists within the geographical country as "Indian culture"- is pretty confused (as clearly observed by SC).


There is NO CONFUSION in Indian Culture

--nor IRRELEVANCE nor In- appropriation Nor OUT-DATEDness for the Current Modern era --

--on the Rudiments of Indian Culture of Human-Values

If anybody gets confused, it only means his inability to perceive the True sense implied --

--although openly may not be apparent.

Yes. Indian culture is NOT SPOON-FED Education.

We have to apply Our WISDOM AND HEART to truly understand its high and deep sense imbued-

--to lead the MOSAIC Global Humanity--

--towards an EARTHLY PARADISE.!!! for the whole Mankind ---

---preventing them from the Suicidal Down-fall towards Stone-age culture.!





There is this -oruvanukku oruththi- sex only within marriage - ozhukkam - kaRpu and such moral teachings that are meticulously taught and followed by one section of society (possibly the majority of middle class and below which definitely forms majority of Indians - regardless of religious beliefs- who knows, it may be 80% or even higher).



(1) Hinduism nor the Hindu-Culture stipulates "Oruvanukku oruthi" Marriage Culture

But only stipulates two Personal-conducts as IMMORAL -- and condemns Hypocricy and Shady Life

(2)Prostitution and Raping are Crimes and Sinful


(3)Every Grihastha Male can have any Number of Wives transparently…

--but it must legally and Socially conform to Human-Norms.

(4)Marriage is a TRANSPARENT Solemn ceremony of Two Human merger-- by Soul, Mind, and Body

--which norm should not be ignored nor transgressed.




OTOH, there are also other forms of "culture" that find acceptance both in mythology / religion and everyday lives - i.e. more than one wife, live together without an official marriage etc (at least some groups among most religions, tribals, atheists etc - you can look around and see lakhs of examples - though possibly minority, this is not a small number)//


Hindu culture allows not only Polygamy (several Wives for One Husband)

--but also Polyandry (several Husbands for One Wife)

--if Socially granted in specific cases--- constrained by circumstances.



It's not surprising that the law of the country only controls what happens AFTER MARRIAGE - that too based on one's declared religion or the marriage act that one registers with and should conform to - and nothing prior to that (unless rape / child abuse etc are involved).

That is because, any law code book of a country is just a set of rules that a group of people put together - after counsulting what their "holy books" say plus what is prevalent in the society.


No Not all. Laws are the Deemed-Fence for the Society.

Legal protection by Government is Supreme for a Commonman at every stage of Life.




So, this superiority complex - we're Indians and we're "morally" (i.e. in the sexual context) greater than west - is on a shaky foundation.

No Question of Superiority Complex…

We perhaps need a Foreigner to make us understand and realise--

--the true value of Gems on our Crown.!!!
.
.
.[/tscii:4c8ee5d851]

[joe]

Moral code and penal code need not be the same .period.

[app_engine]

[tscii:7c61046630]

One simple point on Radha-Krishna ROMANCE.!
Such Krishna-leelas at Brindavana ends within the Bala-Krishna’s age of Boyhood of just TEN YEARS !
--Radha and other Gopika Girls too were of such Childhood age
What Sexual affair has got to do here ? --
--except the Sanctity of Soul-spirit.!


As per SC judge, R-K was a case of PMS, so relevant to the case, and because gods did it there's nothing wrong with the practice.

Now, you have a twist to it - that there was no pAluRavu involved :-)

Well, possibly you're an expert in mythological books and please feel free to hit at the judge for his ignorance :-)

Since your other points touch on religious doctrines / practices (Hinduism - Hindu culture to be specific) , I won't comment on them (hub prohibition) :-)

[/tscii:7c61046630]

[raagadevan]

Court quashes cases against Suhasini - From The Hindu (May 1, 2010)

http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/01/stories/2010050150370100.htm

[Sudhaama]

.




As per SC judge, R-K was a case of PMS, so relevant to the case, and because gods did it there's nothing wrong with the practice.

.


IMPORTANT FACTORs of HUMAN-VALUES --

--- by Indian Heritage.?



(1) Transparency.!

(2) Tri-Purity... CLEAN Intentions, especially by Congruence of Thought, Speech and Deed (Thri-Karana suddhi)

(3) Confession of One's Guilt... abiding by Ones Own Self-Conscience--

..which is the Deemed God's Voice of Introspection.



Had Hindu Gods ever set themselves as BAD EXAMPLE for Mankind.... by LOOSE CHARACTER?



No. According to the AUTHENTIC 18 Puranas...

...No God had ever violated the self-discipline... nor contrary to Human Code Stipulated.

The Hindu Gods invariably have proved themselves as the emulative example for Mankind...

..as also ratified by subjecting themselves for Self- demonstration that the RUDIMENTARY Content of Human-codes are practicable for Mankind on Earth..

...for ever... ETERNALLY.!

Otherwise Mankind can deserve IN NO WAY to be called as Superior- creature on Earth...

... greater than the Beasts.!

-- Nor the Gods can be qualified to be Gods-- if they behave contrary to what they preach as Sermons to Mankind.

Masters must be EXEMPLARY to their Followers. Otherwise nobody will ever value their Dry Teachings of Vanity.



[tscii:8c6ba0c9cf]


Welcome My dear “app”

---for Your HEALTHY and INTERESTING plus VALID Points--



appRECIABLE, appROPRIATE, appOSITION.








Some loose comments by SC actually touched about stuff not strictly related to law books.

That was the Radha-Krishna stuff.



I have not gone through it. However if any person-- even if he be a Judge,

---misjudges or under-rates the Greatness of Indian Culture established by its RICH HERITAGE--

--I just pity him.. for his IGNORANCE on true Vedic Concept of Human-Values --

--not only by the dint of Religion, but also as Man the Supreme Creature on Earth--

---excelling all other Living-beings in each and every aspect of mundane Life on Earth..

Yes in the Global perspective too-- by the Sense of Mankind.!

One simple point on Radha-Krishna ROMANCE.!

Such Krishna-leelas at Brindavana ends within the Bala-Krishna’s age of Boyhood of just TEN YEARS !

--Radha and other Gopika Girls too were of such Childhood age

What Sexual affair has got to do here ? --

--except the Sanctity of Soul-spirit.!





As much as you can draw german etc for appreciation for Indian culture / family values etc, strictly on the question of "sex-morality" thingy, Indian culture -i.e. if we broadly call whatever exists within the geographical country as "Indian culture"- is pretty confused (as clearly observed by SC).


There is NO CONFUSION in Indian Culture

--nor IRRELEVANCE nor In- appropriation Nor OUT-DATEDness for the Current Modern era --

--on the Rudiments of Indian Culture of Human-Values

If anybody gets confused, it only means his inability to perceive the True sense implied --

--although openly may not be apparent.

Yes. Indian culture is NOT SPOON-FED Education.

We have to apply Our WISDOM AND HEART to truly understand its high and deep sense imbued-

--to lead the MOSAIC Global Humanity--

--towards an EARTHLY PARADISE.!!! for the whole Mankind ---

---preventing them from the Suicidal Down-fall towards Stone-age culture.!





There is this -oruvanukku oruththi- sex only within marriage - ozhukkam - kaRpu and such moral teachings that are meticulously taught and followed by one section of society (possibly the majority of middle class and below which definitely forms majority of Indians - regardless of religious beliefs- who knows, it may be 80% or even higher).



(1) Hinduism nor the Hindu-Culture stipulates "Oruvanukku oruthi" Marriage Culture

But only stipulates two Personal-conducts as IMMORAL -- and condemns Hypocricy and Shady Life

(2)Prostitution and Raping are Crimes and Sinful


(3)Every Grihastha Male can have any Number of Wives transparently…

--but it must legally and Socially conform to Human-Norms.

(4)Marriage is a TRANSPARENT Solemn ceremony of Two Human merger-- by Soul, Mind, and Body

--which norm should not be ignored nor transgressed.




OTOH, there are also other forms of "culture" that find acceptance both in mythology / religion and everyday lives - i.e. more than one wife, live together without an official marriage etc (at least some groups among most religions, tribals, atheists etc - you can look around and see lakhs of examples - though possibly minority, this is not a small number)//


Hindu culture allows not only Polygamy (several Wives for One Husband)

--but also Polyandry (several Husbands for One Wife)

--if Socially granted in specific cases--- constrained by circumstances.



It's not surprising that the law of the country only controls what happens AFTER MARRIAGE - that too based on one's declared religion or the marriage act that one registers with and should conform to - and nothing prior to that (unless rape / child abuse etc are involved).

That is because, any law code book of a country is just a set of rules that a group of people put together - after counsulting what their "holy books" say plus what is prevalent in the society.


No Not all. Laws are the Deemed-Fence for the Society.

Legal protection by Government is Supreme for a Commonman at every stage of Life.




So, this superiority complex - we're Indians and we're "morally" (i.e. in the sexual context) greater than west - is on a shaky foundation.

No Question of Superiority Complex…

We perhaps need a Foreigner to make us understand and realise--

--the true value of Gems on our Crown.!!!
.
.
.[/tscii:8c6ba0c9cf]

.

[raagadevan]

It is very interesting to note how selective some of the vocal defenders of our ancient civilization, moral code and culture are on the issues that they want to be vocal about. When an "outsider" like Kushboo and an "Italian Catholic" like Sonia Gandhi say or do things that disturb our serene sense of cultural bliss, we get very offended, and become vocal telling everyone that those people are wrong. When the Supreme Court of India rules that what Kushboo stated was not criminal in nature, we are upset, and argue that the judges do not know what they are talking about! When a "cultured" and "civilized" mob burns down a Harijan and his daughter to death in the presence of revenue and police officials, we either pretend that the incident did not happen or it is not important enough for us to waste our time talking about. When someone wants to discuss the comments of a visitor to India about the poor public sanitation conditions in India, that person is taken to task for quoting a "foreigner" who does not know anything about our great Indian civilization and culture. When our own Suhasini makes statements supporting Kushboo, is taken to court for saying what she said, and the court decides that what she said was not criminal in nature, we either pretend that we do not hear that or do not want to comment about that.

I have tried to stay off the discussions on such subjects, but just could not help making these observations. My posting is not aimed at offending or upsetting any of the esteemed participants of this forum.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Freedom of speech and legally tenable utterances do not excuse a popular person from misleading, misguiding youth with dangerous half-truths, abetting a new, young generation to throw sensual restraints to the winds are sure matters for censure. Let us not confuse with our past glory or rather the so-called glory and proud heritage, but keep in mind only the basic rules for happy, healthy, 'human' as opposed to 'animal'living in society.

Dalits burnt are surely condemnable acts, but pathetically get no hue and cry reaction as what people in limelight do or say!

Sanitary conditions in our fast developing country is not cent percent satisfactory, but definitely better than a few decades ago. The newborn first learns to crawl on all fours and then totters to walk and it is long after he learns to run. An outsider pointing out glaring defects in a condescending tone is not acceptable, cannot be condoned. It is more wicked superiority complex than concern for a developing nation. So obvious. Can't help reacting. No need to give much importance to such high-sounding reviews! Here also no need to thrust our cultural heritage unnecessarily. Everything has a context, impact and relevance. Let us cultivate the art of responsibility. Morality and discipline along with sensitivity will automatically follow. Persons with completely different lifestyles, personal choices and moral concepts must be more careful while speaking for/about the majority of law-abiding, disciplined and clean middle class masses. :yes:


http://ppavalamani.blogspot.com

[app_engine]

raagadevan,

One of the limitations of hub is the prohibition on religion - caste related discussions :-(

So, though we feel strongly about such atrocities, it's very difficult to express without breaking policies :-(

Passing an impassionate comment on such things is impossible for me and there has to be பயங்கரப்பொங்கல்!

Applying self-restraints boss, பொறுத்தருள்க!

[NOV]

raagadevan is spot-on. :clap:

Taking the moral high ground is easy and being judgemental is even more easy. But standing up for the weak requires courage and perseverance. In the recent dalit killing case, there is no two sides to the coin. Maybe that's why there is no discussion on it?

[Surya]

Relax Brothers and Sisters! :)

All the Esteemed Hubbers who want to preserve Indian Culture, instead of letting the masses make their own Path:

You guys should really Make a big deal about the actual things in Indian Society which threaten the basic Foundation of Her Society and Culture. There are so many more things to be made a big deal about! Things a lot more important than what Kushboo said for example. You Guys Should Make A Big Deal and Ruin The Lives Of People Like This :::

http://news.indiainfo.com/article/0904252005_father_raped_daughter_over_a_boy_friend/344116.html

What kind of a Sick Vile Lunatic does things like this?! He has completely ruined the girls life. She will most probably never recover from this. And He Isn't All By Himself. There are plenty of people going through the same things this girl has by a Parent or a Relative or a Guardian. Make and Example of This Guy! Go After Him!

NOT HER!!!! ::: http://www.kollywoodtoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/rudra-oc11-2008.jpg

Shez just speakin her mind. That's the primary focus of our country since it's democratic! She is Exercising her Rights. Something more people should defiantly do in Indian Society, and I'm sure you'll agree with me on that, am i Right?


She certainly did not deserve this:
Volunteers of the Dalit Panthers of India stormed the office of the South India Film Artistes' Association in Chennai yesterday, carrying brooms and slippers, ***(:? what the hell? :rotfl3: I Don't get it, why brooms and slippers? Brooms and slippers.....things that'd be easily accessible to a Typical Traditional Indian Women her age? Like things she'd find in her house...So they're gonna go hit her with things she can have with her in her house but she doesn't because she isn't there? Is that the Point? Or is it done to show intensity? Like they were in their house, and saw the news, got so pissed off, grab whatever they could from their house and stormed out, with the news piece still running on TV. Somehow magically regrouped at the enterance of the building....is it done to show...Passionate, Spontaneous RAGE? I Don't know...I don't get it...WHATS THE LOGIC???!!!!) and demanded an apology from the actress.

http://www.rediff.com/movies/2005/sep/26khushboo.htm

[Sudhaama]

.


.Kushboo's Case Victory : Severe SOCIAL INJURY --


-- an INSULT to Great Indian Culture of HUMAN-VALUES,


-- Globally acclaimed Emulative & Exemplary to Mankind.!




Let Our Understanding-- be SENSIBLE.!


-- by Scope and Purpose.!




raagadevan,

One of the limitations of hub is the prohibition on religion - caste related discussions :-(

So, though we feel strongly about such atrocities, it's very difficult to express without breaking policies :-(

Passing an impassionate comment on such things is impossible for me and there has to be பயங்கரப்பொங்கல்!

Applying self-restraints boss, பொறுத்தருள்க!

Dear "app"

Well. I agree and appreciate your emulative Code of Life-practice and gentlemanly Self-discipline

True to the Hub Regulations we all sincerely abide by it and will continue so.

Also I thank and appreciate one and all our Moderators plus the Chief Administrator RR-- for their Friendly Co-operation, in this respect.

Besides, we have to understand the true sense and purpose of such Hub Regulations--- stipulated in our Mutual interests.

Let us not overstretch its sense--- nor blindly bind and tie up ourselves by means of Self-assigned Ropes of misconstrution or misconceptions on the Scope, Purpose and timely Necessity of Hub Regulations.

Please remember there are several Threads current in our Hub, running without any hitch for the past about 5 years --

--where Religions and / or Politics are directly or indirectly involved... Why.?

Because in our present day modern life too... (irrespective of our own Private Life norms)--

--for we Indians -- Religion and Politics are parts of our Social Life.

So we will not be able to avoid thinking and pouring out our Thoughts and Problems in our Life-- on Religions and Politics also side by side--

--because of UNDUE problems caused to us EXTRANEOUSLY by Religious or Political interferences in our Secular Life.

Most important point here under the present Context ---

Similar Regulations are applicable basically in the Courts of Law too -- meant to be strictly secular--

---NON RELIGIOUS and NON-POLITICAL by Outlook.

The Judges need not know Religions or Politics. It is enough they are well-conversant with the Laws of the Land --

-- plus the Veracity and Relevence of Laws quoted by the Advocates..

--alongside the Moral Justification implied.

So any Judge can be a Muslim or Hindu or the like or even be an Atheist to handle any Civil case too.


However we have to remember that all the Indian Civil Codes are based on Religions---

---Hindu Laws, Muslim Laws, Christian Laws and the like.


And the relevent Religious arguments do take place in the Courts of Law --

-- although intended and named as SECULAR.

So the whole proceedings in the courts are bound to be sensibly relevent and based on the applicable Religious Laws ---

-- as well as the Legal- Sense implied behind the concerned Religious concept...

-- for the Judges too.

In this case, we have nothing to comment on the Judgement because the Judgement is always made based on the comparative Strength, Validity, and viablity of arguments.

So we are lead to understand that the Judges have performed their due role -- confined to their pertinent bounds of Scope and Purview

But our concern is only the POOR COUNTER-ADVOCATION--

- to repudiate APTLY AND EFFECTIVELY opposing the FALSE CLAIMS on Religious sense by Kushboo's Lawyers.

So to mean--- the Basic data on Hindu religion, quoted by Kushboo's Lawyers are TOTALLY WRONG, FALSE... and VOID.

For example, if an Advocate argues in one case, stating as ---

"My three data for my Arguments are put forth here, on three factors Arithmetically, Geographically and Politically.

-- So I base my Arguments on an Arithmetical Fact -- that 4+3 = 9

--and on one Geographical fact that India is an Island--- surrounded by Oceans all around.

-- plus a Political Fact-- that the Capital of India is Moscow.


Can we KEEP SILENT-- and SUCCUMB to an UNFOUNDED INFERENCE --

-- based on such FALSE DATA.?




.
.




As per SC judge, R-K was a case of PMS, so relevant to the case, and because gods did it there's nothing wrong with the practice.

.


IMPORTANT FACTORs of HUMAN-VALUES --

--- by Indian Heritage.?



(1) Transparency.!

(2) Tri-Purity... CLEAN Intentions, especially by Congruence of Thought, Speech and Deed (Thri-Karana suddhi)

(3) Confession of One's Guilt... abiding by Ones Own Self-Conscience--

..which is the Deemed God's Voice of Introspection.



Had Hindu Gods ever set themselves as BAD EXAMPLE for Mankind.... by LOOSE CHARACTER?



No. According to the AUTHENTIC 18 Puranas...

...No God had ever violated the self-discipline... nor contrary to Human Code Stipulated.

The Hindu Gods invariably have proved themselves as the emulative example for Mankind...

..as also ratified by subjecting themselves for Self- demonstration that the RUDIMENTARY Content of Human-codes are practicable for Mankind on Earth..

...for ever... ETERNALLY.!

Otherwise Mankind can deserve IN NO WAY to be called as Superior- creature on Earth...

... greater than the Beasts.!

-- Nor the Gods can be qualified to be Gods-- if they behave contrary to what they preach as Sermons to Mankind.

Masters must be EXEMPLARY to their Followers. Otherwise nobody will ever value their Dry Teachings of Vanity.



[tscii:1b6898567f]


Welcome My dear “app”

---for Your HEALTHY and INTERESTING plus VALID Points--



appRECIABLE, appROPRIATE, appOSITION.





[quote=app_engine]

Some loose comments by SC actually touched about stuff not strictly related to law books.

That was the Radha-Krishna stuff.



I have not gone through it. However if any person-- even if he be a Judge,

---misjudges or under-rates the Greatness of Indian Culture established by its RICH HERITAGE--

--I just pity him.. for his IGNORANCE on true Vedic Concept of Human-Values --

--not only by the dint of Religion, but also as Man the Supreme Creature on Earth--

---excelling all other Living-beings in each and every aspect of mundane Life on Earth..

Yes in the Global perspective too-- by the Sense of Mankind.!

One simple point on Radha-Krishna ROMANCE.!

Such Krishna-leelas at Brindavana ends within the Bala-Krishna’s age of Boyhood of just TEN YEARS !

--Radha and other Gopika Girls too were of such Childhood age

What Sexual affair has got to do here ? --

--except the Sanctity of Soul-spirit.!





As much as you can draw german etc for appreciation for Indian culture / family values etc, strictly on the question of "sex-morality" thingy, Indian culture -i.e. if we broadly call whatever exists within the geographical country as "Indian culture"- is pretty confused (as clearly observed by SC).


There is NO CONFUSION in Indian Culture

--nor IRRELEVANCE nor In- appropriation Nor OUT-DATEDness for the Current Modern era --

--on the Rudiments of Indian Culture of Human-Values

If anybody gets confused, it only means his inability to perceive the True sense implied --

--although openly may not be apparent.

Yes. Indian culture is NOT SPOON-FED Education.

We have to apply Our WISDOM AND HEART to truly understand its high and deep sense imbued-

--to lead the MOSAIC Global Humanity--

--towards an EARTHLY PARADISE.!!! for the whole Mankind ---

---preventing them from the Suicidal Down-fall towards Stone-age culture.!





There is this -oruvanukku oruththi- sex only within marriage - ozhukkam - kaRpu and such moral teachings that are meticulously taught and followed by one section of society (possibly the majority of middle class and below which definitely forms majority of Indians - regardless of religious beliefs- who knows, it may be 80% or even higher).



(1) Hinduism nor the Hindu-Culture stipulates "Oruvanukku oruthi" Marriage Culture

But only stipulates two Personal-conducts as IMMORAL -- and condemns Hypocricy and Shady Life

(2)Prostitution and Raping are Crimes and Sinful


(3)Every Grihastha Male can have any Number of Wives transparently…

--but it must legally and Socially conform to Human-Norms.

(4)Marriage is a TRANSPARENT Solemn ceremony of Two Human merger-- by Soul, Mind, and Body

--which norm should not be ignored nor transgressed.




OTOH, there are also other forms of "culture" that find acceptance both in mythology / religion and everyday lives - i.e. more than one wife, live together without an official marriage etc (at least some groups among most religions, tribals, atheists etc - you can look around and see lakhs of examples - though possibly minority, this is not a small number)//


Hindu culture allows not only Polygamy (several Wives for One Husband)

--but also Polyandry (several Husbands for One Wife)

--if Socially granted in specific cases--- constrained by circumstances.



It's not surprising that the law of the country only controls what happens AFTER MARRIAGE - that too based on one's declared religion or the marriage act that one registers with and should conform to - and nothing prior to that (unless rape / child abuse etc are involved).

That is because, any law code book of a country is just a set of rules that a group of people put together - after counsulting what their "holy books" say plus what is prevalent in the society.


No Not all. Laws are the Deemed-Fence for the Society.

Legal protection by Government is Supreme for a Commonman at every stage of Life.




So, this superiority complex - we're Indians and we're "morally" (i.e. in the sexual context) greater than west - is on a shaky foundation.

No Question of Superiority Complex

We perhaps need a Foreigner to make us understand and realise--

--the true value of Gems on our Crown.!!!
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[Surya]

Had Hindu Gods ever set themselves as BAD EXAMPLE for Mankind.... by LOOSE CHARACTER?



No. According to the AUTHENTIC 18 Puranas...

...No God had ever violated the self-discipline... nor contrary to Human Code Stipulated.

The Hindu Gods invariably have proved themselves as the emulative example for Mankind...

..as also ratified by subjecting themselves for Self- demonstration that the RUDIMENTARY Content of Human-codes are practicable for Mankind on Earth..

...for ever... ETERNALLY.!

Otherwise Mankind can deserve IN NO WAY to be called as Superior- creature on Earth...

... greater than the Beasts.!

-- Nor the Gods can be qualified to be Gods-- if they behave contrary to what they preach as Sermons to Mankind.

Masters must be EXEMPLARY to their Followers. Otherwise nobody will ever value their Dry Teachings of Vanity.


Sudhamma Ji,

That's a good point, but the hole in that idea is...we can't live like gods! We not gods. We're Human...

Lord Rama, who is said to have been the Model for a Righteous Man, Son, King, Husband, etc etc, was able to live a life like that because:

* He's an Avatar of the Almighty Vishnu

* He lived in a different time.

Example #1:

Lord Ram's father King Dhasaradha exiled Lord Ram on the day in which he was supposed to be crowed as "King of Ayodhya" When his dad told him to leave, he didn't even ask why, he just obeyed.

Example #2:

He asked Sita to undergo Agni Pravesham, after all that which she had already been through with Ravana.

These things are justified, and looked on as very difficult but right decisions, but they can't be done today. It's a different time. :)

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:d77e6ee869].
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.Human-Values by Indian Heritage ! --


--- applicable to the entire Mankind ---


-- PRACTICABLE in Current Era too.!






Had Hindu Gods ever set themselves as BAD EXAMPLE for Mankind.... by LOOSE CHARACTER?

No. According to the AUTHENTIC 18 Puranas...

...No God had ever violated the self-discipline... nor contrary to Human Code Stipulated.

The Hindu Gods invariably have proved themselves as the emulative example for Mankind...

..as also ratified by subjecting themselves for Self- demonstration that the RUDIMENTARY Content of Human-codes are practicable for Mankind on Earth..

...for ever... ETERNALLY.!

Otherwise Mankind can deserve IN NO WAY to be called as Superior- creature on Earth...

... greater than the Beasts.!

-- Nor the Gods can be qualified to be Gods-- if they behave contrary to what they preach as Sermons to Mankind.

Masters must be EXEMPLARY to their Followers. Otherwise nobody will ever value their Dry Teachings of Vanity.






That's a good point, but the hole in that idea is...we can't live like gods! We not gods. We're Human...


We can observe by closely studying the Indian Heritage ( Paaramparyam ) based on Ithihaasaas which word means “Thus it happened” so to say the Authentic History of the Land ---

--- which fact has been nationally recognized as the Indian tradition ---

--- irrespective of varied sorts of Mosaic divisions by Nomenclatures such as personal Religious faith , Language, Regions etc. So to mean the Lessons on Human-Values as depicted by Indian Heritage, such as Ramayana, Mahabharatha, etc are not just confined as a Religious preaching ---

-- nor irrelevant for Non-Hindus --- but the whole Indian Society.

Whereas it may be an INCREDIBLE NEWS – but True …

-- that One German Multifaceted Scholar Dr Max Muller said and proved analytically as ---

“The Lessons of Human-Values as established by Indian Heritage like Ramayana and Mahabharatha are applicable to the entire Mankind ---

--- for ever and ever / ETERNALLY. !!!

Now let me answer to the quite Relevant, INTERESTING & WISE Questions raised by our friend, Surya

The One and the same God Narayana, although the Creator Protector-- took Reincarnations and came to Earth,

--- by STOOPING HIMSELF -- DOWN as one of the Creatures ---

-- and born in HUMAN FORMS too as Rama and Krishna ! Why?

Not to show, Nor EXHIBIT to the Humanity on how Great He is, by the dint of Superiority by God-hood ---

-- but to lead an EXEMPLARY Life -- as MAN on Earth -- facing the Ups and Downs of earthly Life as just a Man without Godly mights.

To DEMONSTRATE to the Mankind – by living and mixing with them --- QUITE ACCESSIBLY --

-- and show the Human Codes of Practice stipulated by Him (God) as NOT IMPRACTIBLE for any Man on Earth--

-- nor irrelevant for any COMMONMAN.!

-- in NO WAY DIFFERING from the Environments and Circumstances faced by any Man on Earth.

Even under all such Life-Challenges and facing the worst sort of Enemies of Mankind ---

--- in the forms of SUPER-MEN by Shapes as Hiranya, Ravana, Kamsa, Jaraasandha etc-

--- the God has proved to Humanity ---

-- as HOW TO FACE --- the Worst in HUMAN-LIFE ??? ---

-- by Just living as TRUE MAN by Human-Values .!---

--- conforming to his purpose of HUMAN birth on earth – as the SUPREME CREATURE.!



Lord Rama, who is said to have been the Model for a Righteous Man, Son, King, Husband, etc etc, was able to live a life like that because:* He's an Avatar of the Almighty Vishnu



The God Vishnu has NOT LIVED AS GOD, including the Incarnation of Rama – but as a Common-man of Human-mights -

--- endowed with nothing more than the credible extent as just as an IDEAL Man by Natural propensities like General Love to all, Romance, Sexual Relations, Birth to Human-parents, Grief, Sorrows, Joy, Facing Challenges and Enmity, Success, Failures, Disappointments, Insult, Shame and even Weeping and so on ---

And ultimately established that the Supreme birth as Man can --- Not only get practiced to live successfully truly complying with the purpose of birth as the Real Man the SUPREME BIRTH on Earth.l---

--- but also can enjoy the Earthly paradise ---

--- and further raise himself to the highest level as Demy-God too ---

--- although born in the Human-shape with the limitations of mights.





* He lived in a different time.

--- --- ---- These things are justified, and looked on as very difficult but right decisions, but they can't be done today. It's a different time. :)



While we follow our Great Forefathers and Connoisseurs for Mankind in other forms of Humanity such as Acharyas, Emperors / Kings, Scholars, Mahans and Social Leaders ---

---who could effectively lead a meaningful Model life by exemplary and emulative codes of practice---

-- we do not ignore their Moral-lessons left by them for their posterity --- just under the consideration of different era, time and age.

We only take the juice of their practical experience and note down the APPLICABLE MESSAGE behind ---

--- adjusting by the transformed concept adaptable by Time relevance for Today’s Mankind.

So is with Gods Incarnation messages too.—for the Mankind EVER APPLICABLE ! --- Eternally ---

---TAKING UP only the SENSE behind.!




Example #1:

Lord Ram's father King Dhasaradha exiled Lord Ram on the day in which he was supposed to be crowed as "King of Ayodhya" When his dad told him to leave, he didn't even ask why, he just obeyed.


Let us imagine ourselves in Rama’s position of EMBARASSMENT then!

Let you are anybody --- just as a Human – but of emulative Human-Values --- think awhile.!

If You were Rama.! --- under that Challenging situation --- What You would have decided and taken up for action.?

You need not think of Ravana Seetha, Sugriva, Hanuman etc. But it is enough you as Rama.!

--- suggest me any better alternative other than what Rama preferred to adopt then

From my Counter-points on such Suggestions you can convince yourselves ---

--- as to Why and How Rama is appreciated by one and all for His action as THYAGA-RAJA.!




Example #2:

He asked Sita to undergo Agni Pravesham, after all that which she had already been through with Ravana.


We have to take the Sense and Intention behind and Not beyond.

Because Rama’s era was the GJNAANA (Soul-mighty) era --- whereas we are living in VIGJNAANA Scientific (Wisdom mighty) era.

However we can apply such a Lesson from Seetha Rama matching to our current era too.!

-- by means of Scientific pursuit on Human-Values.!

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[Sudhaama]

[tscii:135495a23a].




Why RESPECT Others... who DESERVE.?


By GOPALKRISHNA GANDHI


(Former Governor of W.Bengal, Grandson of Mahatma Gandhi and Rajaji)




Trust, belief, credibility and trustworthiness are under threat.

We must value them the more for their being in trouble.

Respect is either there or not there. You cannot have gradations of it, like Respect Vibhushan, Respect Bhushan, Respect Shri. Respect is Respect.

Respect does not come from reasoning. Respect comes instinctively from the thought. “Here is one I respect.”

Recipients of public respect have been broadly of three kinds:

First, those whose status or authority commands respect, as for example kings, judges, popes, bishops, mathadhipatis, generals, ‘captains' of industry.

Second, those who get entitled to respect by ties of family or of social assemblage.

Third, and most significant, those whose lives and deeds, not their nativity, not their office or seniority, have generated wide and deep respect for them.

Today, respect for those in high office, that is to say, respect for men and women with status, is in some difficulty.

The public is no fool.

It judges. From tea-stall owners, vegetable vendors, autorickshaw and taxi drivers to fellow-commuters on a train, metro-coach, or bus, all evaluate high-office holders.

Many holders of high office are elected to them. The process of election is now used skilfully by the electorate as a political exercise that may or may not be connected with a moral evaluation. Several enter the fray because they command resources, not because they command respect. They command loyalty, they command obedience, they command admiration, they command fear. And because after commanding all these, they still want to command respect, they get their followers to try to commandeer it.

But people, simple people, are able to perceive the intrinsic quiddity or thingness of a person almost by instinct, just as they are able to tell a good potato from one that has gone fungoid.

C. Rajagopalachari never contested or won an election in independent India, but public respect for him was strong, whether he was in office or out of it (which was most of the time).

The same was true of his exact contemporary, ‘Periyar' E.V. Ramaswamy, whose ‘office' was none other than affectionate esteem.

Stalwarts of our freedom struggle such as Nehru, Patel, Rajendra Prasad and Azad, and towering personalities like Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and Babasaheb Ambedkar apart, post-Independence Chief Ministers such as Gopinath Bordoloi of Assam, Nabakrushna Chaudhuri of Orissa, T. Prakasam, K. Kamaraj, E.M.S. Namboodiripad, Gobind Ballabh Pant, C.N. Annadurai, and Jyoti Basu are among those whose incumbencies in elective office had little to do with the intrinsic respect they commanded across political divides and across the country.

It is immaterial that Jayaprakash Narayan did not hold elective office. He held a respect which the spontaneous title — Loknayak — symbolised.

The commanding of respect by those in high station who are not elected but selected by processes of appointment and elevation to such office, especially those offices which are entered upon with oaths sworn or affirmed, is not an unmixed affair either.

Take the judiciary in this context. The public has no direct role in its composition or in its periodical re-composition. And yet, distant though it is from the judiciary's genesis or cyclical morphosis, the public has reserved a healthy respect for it.

The respect enjoyed by an institution like the legislature or the judiciary suffers if the incumbents of those bodies and those working in and with them do not treat those very bodies with respect.

Respect begets respect.

This would mean that even as the obstructing of the business of the House by legislators shakes public confidence in them as responsible legislators, the boycott of courts by lawyers hurts the institution's reputation.

Not any less so, does the rare individual trespass by a sitting judge. The trespass does not have to be gross. Even a red-light signal being cut by a red-light bearing car in which a judge is travelling can shake the public's respect in the erring dignitary's instructions to his chauffeur, and in the dignitary's work-ethic and life-ethic.

Nothing in creation is flawless, except perhaps forgiveness by the person entitled to forgive.

(Forgiveness is different, we should note, from pardon).

But the judiciary's mandate is not to distribute forgiveness, it is about determining culpability and where required, convicting and sentencing the culpable.

Nothing in creation is infallible, not even forgiveness.

In the dispensing of justice in accordance with a differentiated code of defining and evaluating liability, this institution too can err.

Nothing in creation is constant or uniform, either.

So the judiciary and constitutional bodies and commissions are a terraced palate, where fallibility is a fact as is dis-uniformity.

There can therefore be doubts, natural and normal doubts, about the flawlessness, infallibility and constancy of their functioning. But the institutions concerned are too vital, too valuable, to be held in any ambiguity as regards respect.

I believe that this will be best ensured if the concern within our courts shifts from questions pertaining to the prestige it enjoins to questions pertaining to the respect it enjoys.

What might happen if respect for the judiciary, even for judicial commissions of enquiry, gets substantially eroded, is too disturbing a prospect to contemplate. I have the confidence that the custodians of the respect of our judiciary and of judicial or constitutional commissions will never permit that to happen.

If respect for status is a mixed affair, respect for seniority or chronological respect, is now becoming routine. I do lament the not-so-gradual disappearance of certain rites of respect for seniors and for elders, like the touching of grand-parental if not parental feet on departure or return home, or on anniversaries.

This becomes particularly so when one finds that the reverential touching of feet as such has not gone out of vogue, but has only undergone metastatis, the recipients of prostrations being unembarrassed political gurus and unabashed godmen and godwomen.

This reflects something more than the generational shedding and replacing of cultural mores, or just the growing self-centredness of the younger generation. It reflects a false streak of self-assurance that goes beyond aplomb to a kind of don't care nerve. In the quotidian world status does sway, rank rules, and credentials count. But there is that margent of life in our midst where mundane needs of self-protection and self-advancement take pause and where we, the people of India, feel and say, “That person there, we respect him for we can trust him.”

Respect is often linked to admiration for skill.

There is respect for a great musician, a dancer or sculptor, an actor or a sportsman because that person has honed a great skill to near-perfection. There is one unfortunate accompaniment to skill-based stature, however, that can rob it of its appeal. And that is the price tag that goes with high-calibre skill.

Be it in sports — cricket in particular — or in music, or in the visual arts, the interplay of money with standards threatens respect for those persons endowed with skills and, in fact, with the place of skills in society.

Acknowledging the Law of Opposites, I must say a word about disrespect. How this is growing, is quite simply unbelievable. The level of public discourse has sunk to an unprecedented low, with vilification flowing seamlessly.

Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi recently reminded us of the mutual respect that Rajaji and Periyar had for each other, as did he himself for Kamaraj, despite irreconcilable political differences.

At the heart of such respect lies trust.

The trust that says this person, be he a governor or a grocer, a judge or a jockey, a councillor or a carpenter, an atomic scientist or an auto-driver, is trustworthy.

The only thing flawless in the world, I said, is forgiveness. The only thing priceless, I believe, is nambikkai. And nambikkai is at the core of respect. It is, as I said, either there, or not there. It cannot be insinuated into anyone or anything.

Nambikkai, belief, credibility, trust and trustworthiness are under threat.

We must value them the more for their being under threat, for not to do so would be to lose the challenge of receiving and the fulfilment of giving respect.

(This is an abridged version of a talk titled ‘Respect' delivered at the Madras High Court, on August 5, 2010, under the aegis of Juris/Legal Exl '83, created by the alumni of the Madras Law College 1980-1983 batch.)



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