Bhagwadgita - thinam oru shlokam [Archive]

Shakthiprabha.

8th February 2008, 01:17 PM

Drudhrashtra who is blind, is filled with overwhelming curiosity to know what is happening at the battle field.

Let us imagine ourselves in his position. Having born blind, he does not know anytihng except intangible emotions and he is blinded also by affection and love towards his kith and kins.

He might have wished, to be there in the battle, fighting for his kids, but alas, his physical handicap, does not allow him to do so. He cant even see the battle with his own eyes.

HE BORROWS sanjaya's eyes and tries to position himself in the battle field, worried, anxioius, may be in a corner of his mind, he still wished the battle was not called for. He might have still wished it can be called off even now, its never late than never. He might be worried, thinking about who all has taken whose side in kurukshetra. Assessing the weakness and strenghs of both the sides. Contemplating how the fate is going to end. Worried about arjuna's valour, worried about vows and pledges which pandavas swore against their sons and vice versa. With innumerable mental torture drudrashtra would have been waiting to hear news from sanjaya

Are we not in this situation everyday in life? We know not, what is in store in future. We are anxious, worried, trying to imagine or forsee or picturise what would happen at any near point in future.

We may not be present for any wedding of our beloved kith or kin, or at exam hall when our kids do our exams or at any trying moments of our beloved.

We try to forsee, what would have happend in any span of time. We try to imagine.

Such is the nature of mind, Wavery/anxious (despite of intellect ruling it).

AT situations like these where we are torn apart due to pressures and worries, INTELLECT hardly works for normal not so tamed minds.

(talks or corrections or explanations or versions or discussions or examples or citing ur own life situations are most welcome )

(we shall see the next verse tomm)

Arthi

8th February 2008, 04:27 PM

i just feel like pouring my thougts here ....

Apparently Dhritarashtra is nervous. He knows in the back of his mind that the Pandavas are righteous warriors on the path of Dharma.
Even though he knows this truth,he is not ready to accept

Many a times which happens in our life too. we aspire to do something, but we face so many problems on our way to accomplish the task which we planned.
sometimes even we fail in out attempt too. we will start cursing god and all as if he is our servent and waiting to obey our orders!!!

We tend to forget the truth that it is our KARMA which decides our uPs and DOWNs why because that MAYA in the form of desires hides our eyes... how it hides Dhritarashtra's too

again come to Dhritarashtra's part...

His heart tells him that his sons are wrong, that they are doing injustice to the Pandavas;
"thaan aadataaLum than thasai aadum"
this proverb goes very well with him.
This feeling of him, hides TRUTH from his eyes and was restless to know the happennings in the battle field

Shakthiprabha.

8th February 2008, 04:28 PM

well put!

Shakthiprabha.

8th February 2008, 04:35 PM

In our movies (hindi or tamizh) we see sometimes own blood punishing their beloved for the crime committed. (thanga pathakkam for that matter or mother india)

Though we mock about that bit of senti clip, or dont really understand its full perspective, its indeed painful and very very daring to do such an act, which is detrimental to the person but benefits the society.

Like our freedom fighters, soldiers sacrificing their personal front to bestwo benefit upon us.

Raja ram, I am told, sent seetha to the forest, (though personally it pained him) because raajnithi allows him to be an example for the his countrymen to follow.

Rajadharma or political dharma is to SACRIFICE personal benefits for the wider or social view .

Such should be rajdharma followed by the righteous king. He sbhould be like manuneethi sozhan.

Not all were.
Not all could be.

Drudrashtra was like us, normal man blinded wiht affection, he was one amongst us. Nothing credible about him at all :?

If he did have any credible quality, worth mentioning, then plz any of u can share :?

Arthi

8th February 2008, 04:49 PM

Some question:

why the battle field was call as kurushEtram????

Why it was Dharma sEtram???

relevant to this thread????

Shakthiprabha.

8th February 2008, 04:57 PM

therilaye arthi :( , bathil kidaicha solren (post panren)

kurukshetra is the name of the place (does it have any reason I dont know)

dharmakshetre is because always (before this kaliyuga) war might have had righteous reasons. only dharma wins. So its a place where dharma strives apdeenu irukalaam.

ethelaam en sontha karpanai, I shall let u know, if i find out.

Arthi

8th February 2008, 05:11 PM

Guruji... i know to some extent....
by giving answers to above question... this topic should not be deviated...

so asked relavent??????

as already KURU is bolded... it is because of the king KURU the place was called as kurushEtram

yuga was Dwapara Yuga but am not sure :?

Shakthiprabha.

8th February 2008, 05:13 PM

Please post arthi. I said all discussions pertaining to the shlokas/real life incidents for the betterment or taking of our mind, can be carried on.

Only digression would be IRRELAVANT comments, or CHAT which we would not do.

mgb

8th February 2008, 05:39 PM

All i know with my brief scent of that place is that, the pandavas and kouravas hail from kuru clan and hence that shetra is called kurushetra meaning land of kurus.
It was also called dharmashetra ( meaning land of righteousness) because the war was against injustice meted out to pandavas and it also resulted in the 'philosophy of karma'.

Idhu kelvignanamdhaan. Thavaru irundhaal mannikkavum.

Arthi

8th February 2008, 05:49 PM

The story is big. i just share teh PEyar karanam of kurushEtram.

it was bcoz of the king KURU the battle field was named as kurushEtram

who was KURU????

He was the grandson of King Vishiparva. sorry forgot parents name. :banghead:

KURU's father had 2 wives.

one was(first wife) devayai daughter of Shukracharya.
The other one was King Vishiparva's(Princess) daughter.

(Because of one curse Vishiparva's daughter bacame DEVAYANI's maid and went with devayani after her marriage with the KING. and then the princess became the second wife of DEVAYAN"s husband)

one day devayani came to know about her husband's secret relationship with Vishiparva's daughter. she ran to her father Shukracharya and explained about her husband's quality.
(The king got 2 sons through DEVAYANI and 3 sons through Vishiparva's daughter)

Shukracharya cursed the king that he will no longer retain his youth. The king went back home and explained about his curse to his sons, and pleaded them to exchange his old age with their youth :shock:

Devayani's sons refused it. the last son of Vishiparva's daughter who was KURU gave his youth to his father.

KURU's father enjoyed the wordly life and atlast realised about life and went in search of peace. so he returned the youth to his son and accepted his ripe(thirundhitaar illa adhan RIPE ;) ) old age and gave his kingdom to KURU.

this was the way how Kaurava dynasty was formed. KURU became a great emperor. sages practises auestirities,yagna , sacrifices and all in the vast region which became Kurukshetra.

Since DHARMA was practised in Kurukshetra which became Dharma-Kshetra

mgb

8th February 2008, 06:11 PM

Arthi

8th February 2008, 06:17 PM

arthi.. i seriously thought you wanted to know some info on kurukshetra.. thats why i tried what i came to know when i visited that place.. i donno why you asked the question when you already knew the answer :?

:notthatway: i just asked shallwe discuss such questions also here... or only abt sloka...as the title says "dhinam oru slokam"

I was doubtful whether those question wld deviate from the CRUX of this thread. anyway i do no tknow much :oops:

have u been to kurukshetra???? cld u plz explain ur experience ????

mgb

8th February 2008, 06:24 PM

oh appadiya.. :)

i have been kurukshetra lot of times.. but let us not discuss this here.. this thread will become general in nature :)

Arthi

8th February 2008, 06:27 PM

oh appadiya.. :)

i have been kurukshetra lot of times.. but let us not discuss this here.. this thread will become general in nature :)

conpesion-a eruku :confused2:
guruji varranga :yessir:

Shakthiprabha.

8th February 2008, 06:35 PM

He is right arthi.

His experiences may not relate to this thread, i.e. it may be general in nature, hence it need not be discussed here.

There is nothign to be confused.

thx ganehs and arthi for that interesting piece of info.

Arthi

8th February 2008, 06:37 PM

ok ok :)

mgb

8th February 2008, 07:02 PM

// prabha.. neenga 'places of interest' thread start panningana naan adhula post panren kurukshetra, amritsar, dwarkalaam paththi :P //

Arthi

9th February 2008, 09:46 AM

inRaya sloka? :D

Shakthiprabha.

9th February 2008, 10:15 AM

I need to finish my morning chores first :)
methuva vanthu nithamana podaren

Shakthiprabha.

9th February 2008, 12:05 PM

sudha india

9th February 2008, 02:28 PM

:notworthy:

madhu

9th February 2008, 04:40 PM

ஆர்த்திஜி..

நீங்க சொல்லியிருப்பது "யயாதி" வரலாறு போல இருக்கே ? யயாதிதான் சர்மிஷ்டா எனும் அசுர ராஜகுமாரியையும், தேவயானி எனும் சுக்கிராச்சாரியார் மகளையும் மணம் செய்து கொண்டு சாபம் வாங்கினவர்.. அவர் முதல் மகன்தான் யது.. அவர் வம்சமே யாதவர்கள் ... கடைசி மகன் பெயர் பூரு.. அவரே தன் இளமையை யயாதிக்குக் கொடுத்தவர்..

குரு என்பவர் அவர் இல்லை..

( sorry.. நான் ஹப் பக்கம் வரலை.. அதான் லேட் போஸ்டிங் :P )

madhu

9th February 2008, 04:48 PM

enakku therinja varaiyil...

dushyantha raja vamsathil vandha bharatharin santhadhigaLil vandhavar "kuru".. avar pEran Pradeepan.. avarudaiya moonRu piLLaigaL தேவாவி, பாஹ்லீகர் மற்றும் சந்தனு... சந்தனுவின் மகனே பீஷ்மர்.

ithu sariyAna thagaval illai enRu thOnRinAl enakkum sollungO !

Arthi

9th February 2008, 07:23 PM

Madhu

adiyEn sOnna KURU kadhai thappa??? :) Bhagawathathula ippadi padichadha dhaan nyabagam....

thappu endral thiruthi kOlgirEn...can't refer bhagawatham now :(

madhu

9th February 2008, 07:33 PM

Madhu

adiyEn sOnna KURU kadhai thappa??? :) Bhagawathathula ippadi padichadha dhaan nyabagam....

thappu endral thiruthi kOlgirEn...can't refer bhagawatham now :(

Arthiji...

bhaagavathathilum yayathi kadhai irukku..

simple-A marathi writer V.S.Kandekar ezhudhiya "yayathi" ( winner of Bharatheeya gnan peeth award) novel refer seyyalaam. adhuvum yayathi storythaan.

Arthi

9th February 2008, 07:44 PM

madhu garu, neenga dhan sOlliteengalaE appuram enna :D

NOV

11th February 2008, 05:50 AM

Moving this thread to HnC section, as it would be useful to have it there. TQ

Shakthiprabha.

11th February 2008, 12:29 PM

thx nov !

I wonder if a very very naive and kiddish attempt of mine, requires this big a section :?
thats why I opened in lounge

I am all the more tensed now.

// dign

(lets see chapter 1 and verse 3 today)

Arthi

11th February 2008, 12:34 PM

nothing is there to be tensed guruji... no one knows 100% every thing in life....

but ur attempt to explore things to be appreciated.

first we should try then only we will cum to know WAT WE KNOW & WAT WE DON"T KNOW :D

by this ur effort... letz all learn and share our knowledge

:thumbsup: :notworthy:

Shakthiprabha.

11th February 2008, 12:56 PM

CHAPTER 1 - VERSE 2

Sanchaya uvacha (sanjaya says)

drustva tu paandvanikam vyoodam duryothanas tadha
achaaryam upasangamya raaja vachanamabravit

(rough translation)

Having seen the pandava army formation, duryothana approached his acharya and spoke these foll words

What was that which he said to his acharya?

CHAPTER 1 - VERSE 3

pashyaithaam paandu puthraaNam achaaryah mehateem chamoom
vyoodaam drupada puthrENa tav sishENa dheematha

O guru, perceive the arrangement of pandava-army formed / arranged/displayed by ur discening disciple, the son of drupada

Shakthiprabha.

11th February 2008, 01:01 PM

I am very much reminded of the competition which we face in the current world (rather present at any point of time)

Duryodhan was anxited to see the strengh the weakness of the opponent (SWOT analysis practised before venturing into any important act)

KNOW who u are dealing with, before u start dealing.

KNOW what u are dealing with, before u start dealing.

So, analysis is done at every macro and micro level in any circumstances, including that of competing with our classmate to secure first mark, or getting selected in medical entrance exam or even at micro level of understanding the family member's weakness and strenght to deal with them effectively.

Amazing aint not to see the practical side of gita!

Lets see verse 4 tommorrow

aanaa

11th February 2008, 08:05 PM

thanks Sakthi

Shakthiprabha.

11th February 2008, 08:08 PM

welcome aana to the thread.

plz pour in ur thoughts (relavent ones) and also feel free to correct me whenever I go wrong.

Raghu

11th February 2008, 08:20 PM

Some question:

why the battle field was call as kurushEtram????

Why it was Dharma sEtram???

relevant to this thread????

cos the the Pandvasa and Gouravas are from Kuru Clan

Shakthiprabha.

12th February 2008, 12:30 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 4

athra shooraah mahEshwaasah bhimarjun samaa yudhi
yuyudhanah viraatahcha drupthah cha maharathah

In these army divisions, there are valient men, whose valour is equal to that of bhima and arjun, like, yuyudhana, viratah, mighty chariot warrior drupada

Shakthiprabha.

13th February 2008, 11:37 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 5

DrushtakEthu chekEthanah kaasirajahcha veeryavaan
purujit kunthibhojahcha shaibyah cha nara pungavah

He goes further to observe

There are powerful fighters and noblest men, assembled, like, Dhrshtaketu, Chekitana, Kasiraja, Purujit, Kuntibhoja and Saibya.

Shakthiprabha.

13th February 2008, 11:42 AM

Anxiety, worry, jealosy, irritation was stamped hard on duryodhan. His talks reflected the same. This can be observed from the way he tries to assess the best what the opponent possess.

Lot many times, when we lack confidence, other's strength make us feel so very low and tensed. Instead of plumetting low in confidence, we should try to assess our own credits too.

I get reminded of situations when we attend interviews and watch ppl sitting with big portfolios and confident smiles. Or even examination hall, when someone next to us is tryign to talk the chapter we skipped or hurriedly browsing the book which is left quite blank in our memory, as we lack confidence.

Raghu

13th February 2008, 04:19 PM

crazy

14th February 2008, 01:12 AM

sp akka :clap: :notworthy:

aanaa

14th February 2008, 07:39 PM

sakthi
changing avatar - good
:clap:

Shakthiprabha.

14th February 2008, 07:44 PM

ppl, plz bear with me for today.
Tomm we shall continue as usual.

thx aana, crazy and all :)

Shakthiprabha.

15th February 2008, 01:30 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 6

yudhaamanyuh cha vikranthah utthamoujaascha viiryavaan
saubhadrah draupadyaascha sarva eva maha ratah

He continues on

yudhamanyu, uthamouja, subhadra's and draupadi's sons are all definitely powerful warriors

devapriya

15th February 2008, 11:52 PM

For Detailed Bagavat Geeta Saptakam done by
Brahmasri.Nochur. Venkatraman, and by others also
can be downloaded from the following link upoaded by a web friend Dexterneedsabrain

http://www.esnips.com/web/chapter1

Shakthiprabha.

16th February 2008, 01:56 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 7

asmaakam tu vishishtaye tan-nibhodhaa dvijyothamaa
naayakaah mama sainyasya samnjyaartham thaan braveemi thE

Oh best of twice born brahmanas, now I shall, for ur information, name the qualified leaders of our (kaurava) army

Shakthiprabha.

16th February 2008, 01:57 PM

Who is a 'twice born brahmana'?

In kesava Kasmiri's commentry we get an idea

he says

"The word dvijottama meaning best of the twice born, Brahmans, this being stated indicates a concealed meaning implying that if Dronacaraya will not fight then he is merely a Brahman who is only interested in eating the fine food served at the palace of Duryodhana."

So if he is not born, here in this battle field, he would just be a normal brahmana.

Shakthiprabha.

18th February 2008, 12:34 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 8

Bhavaan bheeshmah cha karnah cha krupah cha samithainjayah
ashwaththaamah vikarnaah cha sowmdaathih thathaieva cha

ur respected self (dronacharya), Bheeshma, Karna, Kripa, Asvatthama, Vikarna and the son of Somadatta called Bhurisrava, such ppl , those who are always victorious in battle, are present

aanaa

24th February 2008, 02:04 AM

thank you

Shakthiprabha.

24th February 2008, 07:00 PM

Dear all,

SORRY for the long break.
Would continue from tomm :)

Shakthiprabha.

25th February 2008, 12:47 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 9

anyE cha bahavah shuraaha madharthE tyaktha jeevithah
nanaa shastra praharanah sarvE yuddha visharadah

All are ready to lay or sacrifice their life for MY SAKE. Including great warriors , armed with great weapons, are prepared to risk their very life

Shakthiprabha.

25th February 2008, 12:49 PM

Interesting, I notice a very sutble PRIDE / ego in duryodhan's statement here.

'Such big heros, who are mighty great men, are all here, at his ONE WORD or COMMAND, willing to even sacrifice their life, for the fullfilment of his desire.'

A pride, wihch I assume, any king / political leader or any person who leads large crowd is bound to have :)

Shakthiprabha.

26th February 2008, 12:21 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 10

apyaarptham thad asmaakam balam bheeshmahbhirakshitham
paryaaptham tu idham etesham balam bhimabhirakshitham

our army protected by bheeshma is unlimited, whilst LIMITED is the of pandava army protected by strength of bheema

Shakthiprabha.

26th February 2008, 12:23 PM

Few acharyas have emphasised that, though duryodan seems to be so mighty proud of his army and its strength , the fact remains that he might actually have felt very inadequate about his army or himself.

Shakthiprabha.

27th February 2008, 11:18 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 11

ayaneshoo cha sarveshu yata baagam avasthitah
beeshmam eva-abhirakshanthu bavantah sarva evahi

He requests everybody to support /protect bheeshma from their respective standpoints in the army.

crazy

27th February 2008, 01:17 PM

Shakthiprabha.

28th February 2008, 11:32 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 12

tasya sanjanyan harsham kuru vruthaahah pithamaha
simha naadham vinadhyauchaih sankam dadhmou prathaapavaan

Just then, bheeshma, the grandsire of kuru dynasty roaring like a lion, blew his conch, giving joy to duryodhana

Shakthiprabha.

18th March 2008, 12:24 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 13

tatah sankaas cha beryah cha paNavaanaka gomukah
sahasa eva abyayanyantah saha shabhdahah tumulah abavaath

Following that, other conchshells, bugles, trumpets, drums and horns all sounded loudly, that the atmosphere turned highly agitated and turbulent

Shakthiprabha.

26th March 2008, 12:23 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 14

tatah shvetehehayaihayukte mehathee sayanadanE sthithau
maadhvah paandavahcha eva divyou shankhou pradadmatuh

Then, on the otherside, krishna and arjuna on a sublime chariot geared by white horses, blew their superior conchshells

Shakthiprabha.

27th March 2008, 12:44 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 15

Paanchajanyam hrusheekeshaah devadhattam dhananjayah
paundram dhadmou mahaa shankaam bhima karma vrukodharah

Lord krishna blew his conchshell panchajanya, arjuna blew devdhatha, avid eater and performer of laborious tasks, bhima, blew his conch paundram

sarna_blr

27th March 2008, 12:51 PM

Sp akka small request....

Can u pls translate in both Tamil and English...

PS...Bagavath geedhaya tamizh'la yaarum ezhudhalayaaa?

Shakthiprabha.

28th March 2008, 12:48 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 16/17/18

anantha vijayam rajah kunti putrah
yuthishtarah nakulah sahadevascha sugosha manipushpakau

kaashyah cha parmeshwavascha sikandicha mahaarathah
drushtdyumnah viraatah cha saatyaki cha aparajithah

druptah draupadeyashcha sarvashah pritvi pateh
sowbhadrahacha mahabaahuha shankaan dadhmuh prithak prithak

Yudhishtira the son of Kunti blew his conchshell the anantavijaya. Nakula and Sahadeva blew the sughosa and manipushpaka.

Great bowmen the king of kasi, great fighter sikhandi, dhrushtadyumna, viratha, saatyaki, ....

pachala king drupadha, sons of draupadhi, abhimanyu and also others like son of shubhadra, all blew their respective conchshells.

குந்திபுத்ரன் யுதிஷ்டிரன் தன் சங்கான 'அனந்தவிஜய'த்தையும், நகுலன் 'சுகோச'த்தையும் சஹதேவன் 'மணிபுஷ்பக'த்தையும் ஊதினார்கள்.

மாபெரும் வில்லாளனான காசி அரசனும், சிறந்த போர்வீரனான சிகண்டியும், த்ருஷ்டத்யுனனும், விரதனும், சாத்யகியும், பாஞ்சால நாட்டு மன்னனும், த்ரௌபதி புத்ரர்களும், கவசமணிந்து மிகச்சிறந்து விளங்கும் அபிமன்யுவும், மேலும் சுபத்ரா புத்ரனும், ஏனையோரும், முறையே அவரவர்கள் சங்கை ஊதினார்கள்

// I shall try to refer some other writings in tamizh before I do my own translation :oops:

I do not think there is any ONLINE TAMIZH translation for gita :? //

Shakthiprabha.

7th April 2008, 11:30 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 19

saha ghoshoh daradhrashtranaam hrudayani vayadarayat
nabhacha prithvimcha eva tumulah vyanunadayan

The vibrations caused on the earth and resounding in the sky by the conch shells blown by pandavas shattered the hearts of drudhrashtra's sons

விண்ணிலும் மண்ணிலும் எதிரொலித்த பாண்டவ சேனையின் சங்கின் பேரொலி, திருதிராஷ்டிர படையின் (புத்ரர்களின்) ஹ்ருதயத்தை பிளப்பதாய் இருந்தது

podalangai

7th April 2008, 02:52 PM

I do not think there is any ONLINE TAMIZH translation for gita :? //
Irukke :)

http://download.yatharthgeeta.com/pdf/tamil_geeta/index.HTM
This version has a translation, and a commentary which follows the teachings of the madam at Satna in Madhya Pradesh.

For Vasavi: They also have a Norwegian translation :)
http://download.yatharthgeeta.com/pdf/norvegien_geeta/index.htm

Bharatiyar's commentary / summary of the chapters of the Bhagavad Gita is also available:
http://www.tamilnation.org/literature/bharathy/kavithaikal/index.htm

crazy

7th April 2008, 02:56 PM

anna
mikka nandri :ty:

Shakthiprabha.

7th April 2008, 03:00 PM

nandri nandri nandri podalangai :notworthy:

Shakthiprabha.

8th April 2008, 12:17 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 20

athvyavasthithaan dhristhva dharathrashtraan kapidhwajah
pravrithe shastru sampaathe dhanuha udhyamya pandavah
hrishikesham thadha vaakyamidhamaaha mahee pathe

Oh king (drudhrashtra), at that time, arjuna, on whose chariot the flag of hanuman is pictured, who was ready to shoot the weapon, looked at the sons of drudhrashtra, then, he spoke the following words to hrurishikesha(Krishna)

ஹனுமன் கொடியை தேர் சின்னமாக கொண்ட அர்ஜுனன், கையில் வில்லெடுத்து போர் புரிய தயாராகும் போது, எதிர் சேனையில் திருத்ராஷ்ட்ர புத்ரர்களை கண்டதும், ஹ்ருஷீகேசனைப் பார்த்து பின் வருமாறு சொன்னான்

Shakthiprabha.

9th April 2008, 03:54 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 21 & 22

senayorupayo madhye ratham sthaapya me achyu
yavath-ethaan nireeksheaham yodhdhu kaamaan avasthitaan
kairmaya saha yodhavyam asmin raNa samudhyame

Arjuna said "hey achyutha, please draw the chariot inbetween both armies so that, I may have a look at the warriors who is present, and with whom I have to fight in this great battle

ஹே அச்யுதா, ரதத்தை இரு படைகளுக்கு நடுவே நிறுத்துவாயாக. யுத்தகளத்தில் யார் யார் இருக்கிறார்கள், யாருடன் நான் போரிடப் போகிறேன் என்பதை காண விரும்புகிறேன்.

Shakthiprabha.

15th April 2008, 12:10 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 23

yothathsya manaan avekshe aham ethE athru samaagathah
dharadrashtrasya durbhuddeh yuddhe priyaschi keershava

I want to see those who have come to fight for wicked minded duryodhana so as to please him

தீய எண்ணம் துரியோதனனை திருப்தி படுத்துவதற்காக இங்கு யாரெல்லாம் போர் புரிய வந்துள்ளார்கள் என்பதை காண விரும்புகிறேன்

Shakthiprabha.

22nd April 2008, 01:19 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 24

evam ukthah hrusheekeshah gudakeshena bharatha
senayor ubayor madhye stapayithva rathothamam

Sanjay said, "Hey descendant of bharatha, thus,after arjuna addressed him , Krishna drove the chariot between both the armies.

பரத குலத்துதித்த திருதிராஷ்டிரரே, இவ்வாறு குடாகேசன் (அர்ஜுனன்) விளம்பியதும் ஹ்ருஷீகேசன் ஆன க்ருஷ்ணன், தேரை இரண்டு சேனைகளுக்கு மத்தியில் நிறுத்தினான்

(குடாகேசன் = தூக்கத்தை வென்றவன் என்று அர்ஜுனனின் பெயர்)

Sudhaama

22nd April 2008, 09:09 PM

.
.Welcome.!!! Well-done..!.

Dear Shakthiprabha,

Bhagawad geetha is an IMMORTAL MORAL CODE for Humanity... irrespective of Religious disparities.

There are different versions of meaning for the Original Text of this Gospel...

Most popular amongst them are by the Great Seers Adhi Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madhwacharya and Prabhupada [of Hare Krishna mission].

...substanciating their individual Philosophical doctrine propogated.

It appears your meanings are based on Sankaracharya's.

OK. Please go ahead.
.

Shakthiprabha.

23rd April 2008, 04:05 PM

Sudhama,

I am overwhelmed with happiness to know, even people like you read and encourage my naive attempt.

I refer to prabhupada and swami Shivanandha's explanation :)

Thankyou thankyou :notworthy:

Shakthiprabha.

28th April 2008, 01:23 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 25

bheeshma drona pramukatah sarveshaamcha maheekshithaam
uvaacha paartha pashya ethaan samavethaan kurun ithi

Before beeshma, drona and other great kings, The hrusheekesha, the lord, said to arjuna, There u see arjuna, the kuru dynasty assembled here.

பீஷ்மர் த்ரோணர் மற்றும் ஏனைய மன்னரின் முன்னிலையில், க்ருஷ்ணன் அர்ஜுனனிடம் "பார்த்தா, இங்கே குழுமியுள்ள குரு வம்சத்தவர்களை பார்" என்றார்

Shakthiprabha.

5th May 2008, 12:55 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 26

thathraapashyaat sthithan parthah pitrin athu pithamahaan
aachaaryaan, maathulaan, braathrin, puthraan pauthraan sakimsthatha
svaasuran suhrdaas cha eva senyor ubayor api

There arjuna could see within both armies, fathers, grandfathers, teachers, maternal uncles, brothers, sons, grandsons, friends, father in laws and well wishers

அர்ஜுனன் இருபக்கத்திலும், தந்தைமார், பாட்டன்மார், ஆச்சார்யர்கள், மாமன்மார், சஹோதரர்கள், மகன்கள், பேரன்கள், நண்பர்கள், நலம்விரும்பிகளுமாய் சூழ்ந்திருந்த படைகளை பார்த்தான்

crazy

5th May 2008, 01:16 PM

:notworthy:

Shakthiprabha.

5th May 2008, 01:24 PM

// innum sirithu naatkalil (muthal athyaayam motham 46 shlokas) githaiyai nokki sendru viduvom :redjump:

kittathattai irandaam athyaayathil 10-aam shlokathil our krishna starts his talks :P :bluejump: //

Shakthiprabha.

7th May 2008, 12:27 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 27

tan sameekshya saha kauntheyah sarvaan bhanduun avasthithaan
krupaaya paraya-avishtah visheedan idham abraveet

When arjuna, saw relatives and friends everywhere, he was overwhelmed with compassion and became grief stricken.
He then spoke thus:

படைக்களத்தில் எங்கும் உற்றார் உறவினர்கள் சூழ்ந்திருப்பதை கண்ட அர்ஜுனனுக்கு ஆழ்ந்த வருத்தம் சூழ்ந்தது. துக்கம் மேலிட அவன் பின் வருமாறு கூறினான்

Shakthiprabha.

8th May 2008, 01:59 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 28

drushtva imam svajanam krishna yuyuthsum sam upasthitham
seedhanthi mama gaathraaNi mukamcha pari shooshyathi

Hey krishna, seeing all friends and relatives zassembled here ready for a battle, makes my mouth dry and limbs quiver

ஹே க்ருஷ்ணா! போர் புரிய அணிவகுத்து நிற்கும் உறவினர்களையும், நண்பர்களையும் கண்டு என் நா உலர்கிறது. உடல் உறுப்புகள் தளர்ந்து நடுங்குகிறது

Does it not remind us of EXAM fever ?

However what is mentioned here is much more than mere exam fever. Exam fever happens because of ANXIETY . It happens because of the fear of worst consequences.

In Arjuna's case is not JUST ANXIETY. He does not FEAR WAR. He does not fear the CONSEQUENCES.

Arjuna feels sad, overwhelmed with LOVE and compassion for his kinsman. The reason is fear, fear of losing loved ones.

At what cost do I need this reign? Whats the price I am gonna pay for getting power?

Here his compassion and love for fellow beings esp they being his well wishers over comes his duty as a warrior.

anbu_kathir

8th May 2008, 06:42 PM

I wonder if this is better termed as 'attachment'. Just because "Love" and "compassion" have far wider interpretations in my view. Perhaps the greatest hurdle in the mind. Anyway, I guess we both mean the same thing. Please carry on...

Love and Light.

Arjuna feels sad, overwhelmed with LOVE and compassion for his kinsman. The reason is fear, fear of losing loved ones.

At what cost do I need this reign? Whats the price I am gonna pay for getting power?

Here his compassion and love for fellow beings esp they being his well wishers over comes his duty as a warrior.

Shakthiprabha.

8th May 2008, 06:45 PM

You are right anbuk kathir :)

its attachment! Love and compassion is a diff terminology used for BROADER selfless love towards entire universe.

I am glad to know ppl are reading my posts :)

Shakthiprabha.

14th May 2008, 01:56 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 29

vepathuhscha shareere mein roma harshascha jayathe
gaandeevam saramsate hastaat tvat cha eva paridahyate

Whole body is trembling, hair is rising, my bow gandeeva is slipping and my skin is burning

என் உடல் நடுங்குகிறது, மயிர்க்கால்கள் புல்லரிக்கின்றன, காண்டீபம் நழுவுகிறது, மேலும் என் உடல் எரிகிறது

crazy

14th May 2008, 02:02 PM

Shakthiprabha.

14th May 2008, 02:02 PM

Arjuna's character is NORMAL HUMAN's character with all its weakness and greatness :)

We can relate to him a lot :)

aanaa

15th May 2008, 05:21 PM

Shakthiprabha.

15th May 2008, 05:24 PM

Arjuna's character is NORMAL HUMAN's character with all its weakness and greatness :)

We can relate to him a lot :)
அந்த ஒரு காராணத்திற் காகவேதான் பகவத் கீதை அர்சுனனுக்குப் புகட்டப்பட்டது.

aana,

ஏனையோர்கள் அவனை விட அறிவில் / ஞானத்தில் சிறந்தவர்கள் என்று கூறுகிறீர்களா? அல்லது ஒரு சராசரி மனிதனின் குணங்கள் மிகவும் பொருந்தப் பெற்றவன் அர்ஜுனன் மட்டுமே என்று சஞ்சல புத்தியை மட்டுமே வைத்து கூறுகிறீர்களா?

podalangai

15th May 2008, 05:47 PM

its attachment! Love and compassion is a diff terminology used for BROADER selfless love towards entire universe.
I think it is both. Well, three things actually.

There is attachment, in the sense of the fear of losing his relatives (i.e., of not being able to meet them again as long as he lives).

There is also genuine compassion and love manifested in the sorrow that his relatives will die (i.e., sorrow that they themselves will no longer be able to enjoy life if he kills them, which is very different from the sorrow at not being able to enjoy their company)

Then there is genuine uncertainty as to whether killing them would be a righteous deed. And, possibly, he is questioning his own motives - to what extent is he being motivated by a sense of what is right (of protecting and upholding dharma), and to what extent is he motivated by a lust for power?

This (and I humbly must differ with some of the earlier posts) is where Arjuna shows himself superior to most of us. How many of us reflect on our own deeds and call ourselves to account in the way Arjuna is doing? And, even more importantly, he also the good sense to resolve his dilemma by taking refuge in perumal's thiruvadi. Isn't this why the last verse of the Gita refers to both Krishna and Arjuna?

bingleguy

15th May 2008, 05:54 PM

:-) Fear, Compassion, Righteousness :-) Podalai :clap:

anbu_kathir

15th May 2008, 09:20 PM

You are correct, podalangai. But I would say all of these come from different forms of attachment. Arjuna's attachment towards his body-mind image, which is " Arjuna-The Brother", "Arjuna-The Son/Grand-Son", "Arjuna-The UpHolder of Dharma", "Arjuna-The Disciple".

Arjuna is attached to all of these 'labels', which are a result of "holding on" to the idea that what he is, is the body-mind called "Arjuna" with all its present relations, all its present notions of what is 'real' and what is 'required' of this Warrior/Brother/Son/Grandson/Disciple/Upholder-of-Dharma that he 'thinks' he is.

Clearly Krishna wants Arjuna to let go of all these attachments, because none of them are real, every single one of them being transient. Krishna wants Arjuna to associate his identity with that of the Atman ( which is what Krishna identifies Himself with ). In that identification, all these attachments drop away and the notion of Who-Am-I in Reality, becomes very clear and precise and leads to the state of no confusion, no fear of loss, no pressure to uphold Dharma. Once the person identifies himself with that 'Purusha' experientially, no more 'effort' is called for. He "becomes" Dharma, personified.

Love and Light.

its attachment! Love and compassion is a diff terminology used for BROADER selfless love towards entire universe.
I think it is both. Well, three things actually.

There is attachment, in the sense of the fear of losing his relatives (i.e., of not being able to meet them again as long as he lives).

There is also genuine compassion and love manifested in the sorrow that his relatives will die (i.e., sorrow that they themselves will no longer be able to enjoy life if he kills them, which is very different from the sorrow at not being able to enjoy their company)

Then there is genuine uncertainty as to whether killing them would be a righteous deed. And, possibly, he is questioning his own motives - to what extent is he being motivated by a sense of what is right (of protecting and upholding dharma), and to what extent is he motivated by a lust for power?

This (and I humbly must differ with some of the earlier posts) is where Arjuna shows himself superior to most of us. How many of us reflect on our own deeds and call ourselves to account in the way Arjuna is doing? And, even more importantly, he also the good sense to resolve his dilemma by taking refuge in perumal's thiruvadi. Isn't this why the last verse of the Gita refers to both Krishna and Arjuna?

Shakthiprabha.

15th May 2008, 09:27 PM

But I would say all of these come from different forms of attachment. Arjuna's attachment towards his body-mind image, which is " Arjuna-The Brother", "Arjuna-The Son/Grand-Son", "Arjuna-The UpHolder of Dharma", "Arjuna-The Disciple".

Arjuna is attached to all of these 'labels', Clearly Krishna wants Arjuna to let go of all these attachments, because none of them are real, every single one of them being transient. Krishna wants Arjuna to associate his identity with that of the Atman.

Love and Light.

I could not have said it better! This IS PRECISELY my stand and understanding too :clap:

awesome anbuk kathir! :clap:

podalangai

15th May 2008, 10:48 PM

To me, there is a distinction between attachment to the fruits of your act (as in "Arjuna the upholder of Dharma" or "Arjuna the grandson who honours his grandsire") and eschewing undesirable acts. The former interferes with vairagiyam, the latter is an essential component of vivekam. I am aware that there are different opinions on this, though, so I won't belabour the point. :wave:

anbu_kathir

15th May 2008, 11:03 PM

Hmmm..I do not know what vairagya and viveka really mean. I just thought that Krishna's point is that while Dharma should be followed, it should also be done without a sense of self-righteousness. Ultimately for enlightenment, one also has to let go of the need to be Dharmic. However this should be the last phase of the process of coming to enlightenment.

Love and Light.

To me, there is a distinction between attachment to the fruits of your act (as in "Arjuna the upholder of Dharma" or "Arjuna the grandson who honours his grandsire") and eschewing undesirable acts. The former interferes with vairagiyam, the latter is an essential component of vivekam. I am aware that there are different opinions on this, though, so I won't belabour the point. :wave:

Shakthiprabha.

16th May 2008, 01:41 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 30

na cha shaknomi-avasthaathum brahmateeva cha mei manah
nimiththaanee cha pashyaami viprithaanee keshava

Hey keshava, I am not able to be stand, I am not able to be composed, my mind is reeling and I see only inauspicious signs

கேசவா, என்னால் நிற்கவும் முடியவில்லை, மனம் சுழல்கிறது, ஒரு நிலையில் இல்லாமல் இருக்கிறது, மேலும் நான் துர்சகுனங்களையே காண்கிறேன்

Shakthiprabha.

19th May 2008, 02:11 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 31

na cha shreyo-anupashyaami hatvaa swajanam aahave
na kankshe vijayam krishna na cha raajyam sukaanichaa

I cannot see any good coming from killing of relatives and friends, also my dear krishna, I do not desire any victory or reign or happiness as a resultant of such killings

யுத்தத்தில் வேண்டப்பட்டவர்களையும் உறவினர்களையும் கொன்று எந்த நன்மையும் நான் காணப்போவதில்லை. மேலும் ஹே க்ருஷ்ணா, இதனால் கிடைக்கபேறும் ராஜ்ஜியம், வெற்றி, இன்பத்தையும் நான் வேண்டேன்

Shakthiprabha.

20th May 2008, 12:42 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 32-35

kim na rajyena govinda kim bhoge jivitena va
yeh shyaam arthe kaankshitham nah rajyam bhogah sukanicha||

the imE avasthithah yuththe praaNaansthyakthva thanaanicha
achaaryah pitharah puthraah thatha eva cha pithamahah ||

maathulah svasurah pauthrah siyalah sampathinah thatha
ethaan na hanthum ichaami gnathah api mathusoothana ||

api thrailokye rajyaSya hethoh kimnu maheekruthE
nihathya thaarthraashtran nah ka preethih syaathu janarthana ||

Oh krishna, of what value is living for happiness,
of what value is material happiness and pleasure, if , they for
whom our kingdom is desired, are lined up in this battle field. Hey
madhusoothana, when preceptors, fathers, sons, maternal uncles,
grandfathers, fatherinlaws, grandsons, brother in laws and all relatives
are standing here before me, ready to give up their life and property,
why should I wish to kill them, even if I survive? Oh jannarthana, I am
NOT prepared to kill them, these drudhrashtra's sons even in exchange of 3 other worlds, let
alone this earth.

ஹே க்ருஷ்ணா! சுகமும், ராஜியமும், செல்வமும், மகிழ்ச்சியும் பெற்று என்ன கிடைக்கப் போகிறது? எவர்களுக்காக நாம் ராஜ்ஜியம், சூகம், இன்பம் விரும்புகிறோமோ, எவர்கள் தங்கள் வாழ்வையும், செல்வத்தையும் விட்டு விட்டு இந்த யுத்த பூமியில் நிற்கிறார்களோ, இந்த ஆச்சார்யர்களும், தந்தையர், மகன்கள், பாட்டன்மார், மாமன்மார், பேரன்மார், மருமகன்கள் ஏனைய உறவினர்களை நான் கொல்ல விரும்பவில்லை. ஹே ஜனார்தனா கேவலம் இந்த பூமிக்காக இல்லாமால், இந்த த்ருத்ராஷ்ர புத்ரர்களை கொல்வதால் மூவுலகும் எனக்குக் கிடைக்கபெறுமாயினும் நான் அதை வேண்டேன்.

crazy

20th May 2008, 11:03 PM

akka ...what is the meaning of madhusoothana and jannarthana? :)

anbu_kathir

21st May 2008, 09:35 AM

[tscii:c0a6682983]
akka ...what is the meaning of madhusoothana and jannarthana? :)

Madhusoodhana - "the eliminator of a demon Madhu", also .. ‘The one who is spilling honey'. This meaning is from here - http://www.carnaticindia.com/meanings/45.html

Janaardhana - one who is birthless (Na Jayathe) and who redeems the suffering of his Bhakthas (Ardhayathi Cha Samsaram). Here the sufferings refer to “Samsara.” Since he does both he is called “Janardhana.” - “Na Jayathe Ardhayathi Cha Samsaram ithi janardhana,”. This is from here - http://www.vinayahs.com/archives/category/spirituality/

Love and Light.[/tscii:c0a6682983]

anbu_kathir

21st May 2008, 09:53 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 32-35

abhithrailokye rajyaSya hethoh kimnu maheekruthE
nihathya thaarthraashtran nah ka preethih syaathu janarthana ||

Oh jannarthana, I am NOT prepared to kill them, these drudhrashtra's sons even in exchange of 3 other worlds, let
alone this earth.

SP akka,

Looks like this is ' api traloikya'(for 'even for the three worlds..') , not 'abhi'. Also ' 3 other worlds ' is probably be just ' 3 worlds' ( Swarga, Bhoomi, Paathaala ). Again this is from some site, I don't have a text to further verify.

Please continue.

Love and Light.

crazy

21st May 2008, 11:24 AM

[tscii:8658e3a514]
akka ...what is the meaning of madhusoothana and jannarthana? :)

Madhusoodhana - "the eliminator of a demon Madhu", also .. ‘The one who is spilling honey'. This meaning is from here - http://www.carnaticindia.com/meanings/45.html

Janaardhana - one who is birthless (Na Jayathe) and who redeems the suffering of his Bhakthas (Ardhayathi Cha Samsaram). Here the sufferings refer to “Samsara.” Since he does both he is called “Janardhana.” - “Na Jayathe Ardhayathi Cha Samsaram ithi janardhana,”. This is from here - http://www.vinayahs.com/archives/category/spirituality/

Love and Light.[/tscii:8658e3a514]

:ty:

Shakthiprabha.

22nd May 2008, 05:34 PM

Sorry crazy and ak,
I did not notice ur replies before :)

ak,

Would correct my post now. I generally listen and write the shlokas as per what I hear. I might be wrong :)

Shakthiprabha.

3rd June 2008, 01:11 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 36

paapam evaashrayE thasmaan
hathvaithaan adhathaayinah
tasman naarhaa vayam hanthum
dhardrastraan sva bandhavan
svajanam hi katham hathva
sukhinah shyama madhava ||

We gain only sin by killing these drudhrashtra's sons. It is not a righteous deed to kill our own kins . What happiness would we get for killing our own people?

இந்த பாபிகளை கொல்வதால் பாபமே கிட்டும். மேலும் பந்துக்களான த்ருத்ராஷ்ர குமாரர்களைக் கொல்வது வேண்டாம். ஹே மாதவா, நம் உற்றார்களையே கொன்று நாம் எந்த சுகத்தைப் பெறப் போகிறோம்!

Shakthiprabha.

16th June 2008, 11:59 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 37-38

yathyapy ethe na pashyanthi loboh pehath chethsah
kulakshyakrutham thosham mithra throhe cha paathakam||

katham na gneyam asmaabhi paapathasmaan nivarthithum
kulakshyakrutham thosham prapashyadhbhi janarthanah

Hey krishna, these men are overwhelmed by greed and do not see the sin in quarelling with friends and killing their own family, we , who know what is right and what is sin, why should we perform or engage in such act?

நண்பர்களைப் பகைப்பதிலு, குடும்பத்தை அழிப்பதிலும் உள்ள தீங்கை, பாபத்தை, இவர்கள் பேராசையால் ஊந்தப் பட்டு பார்க்கத் தவறினும், இப்பாபச் செயலின் விளைவைத் தெரிந்த நாம், இதனைத் செய்யாமல் தவிர்க்கலாமே

Shakthiprabha.

17th June 2008, 12:41 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 39

kulakshayE praNasyanthi kuladharmah sanaathanah
dharmE nashtE kulam kruthsnam atharmah abhibhavathi utha

When a family is destroyed, traditions of the family perishes . When spirituality wanes, unrighteousness and irreligious practices would surround the society

குடும்பத்தை அழிப்பதால் குலதர்மங்கள் அழிகின்றன. அக்குலத்தில் தோன்றிய தொன்மை மிக்க ஆசாரங்கள் அழ்கின்றன. ஆன்மீகம் அழிந்தால் குலத்தை அதர்மம் சூழ்கிறது. ஆச்சாரமற்ற வழக்கங்கள் வழங்கத் துவங்குகிறது

Shakthiprabha.

18th June 2008, 01:48 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 40

adharmaabhibavaath krishna pradhushyanthi kulah striyah
stireesu dushtaasu vaarshaneya jayathE varna sankarah

hey krishna! When adharma overrules, women in the family corrupt and from their corruption and degradation, springs undesirable progenies

ஹே க்ருஷ்ணா! அநாசாரம் சூழ்வதால் குலப்பெண்கள் சீரழிகிறார்கள். அதன் விளைவாக, பெருமையற்ற பிறப்புக்களே உருவாகின்றன

Shakthiprabha.

18th June 2008, 01:54 PM

Shakthiprabha.

19th June 2008, 01:15 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 41

sankaro narakayaiva kulakgnaanaam kulasya cha
pathanthi pitharo hyeShaam luptha piNdothaka kriyah

Such increase of unwanted progenies causes hell to both the family and for those who destroy the tradition. The ancestors of such corrupt families fall down, because the performances for offering them food and water are entirely stopped

இப்படிப்பட்ட பெருமையற்ற சந்ததியினரால், அவர்கள் குலமும், குலத்தை அழித்தவர்களும் நரகத்தில் தள்ளப்படுகின்றனர். அவர்களின் பித்ருக்கள் பிண்டம் அளிப்பாரன்றி வீழ்ச்சியடைகின்றனர்.

anbu_kathir

19th June 2008, 02:09 PM

Varna-sankarah = means mixing of varnas. Indulging in relationship and marriage outside own's own caste or own's own varna.

Without getting into arguments on necessities or otherwise of "intercaste marriages", we probably can broadly look into the same as offsprings with no proper karmic labels.

When ppl fail to do their karmas, it results in IMBALANCE in the overall prosperity of the world.

Hehe.. 'Varna'vaa? Apdinnaa? Ippa ithukkelaam artham irukka? One of my physics teachers used to say " I was a brahmin till 18 years, now I am not in that state... in the future I will be a Brahmin again." This is varna.

Anyway. most of us start disintegrating before even we realise there is such a thing as our 'Karma', or our 'Dharma'...huh. Life is random. Period. Maybe chaotic. LOL. (Now that a tamil movie cites its relationship to this, suddenly people may begin to think that there is perhaps order behind this chaos. Movies - :thumbsup: , perhaps the Oracle of the so-called modern era)

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." - Andy Dufreyne, Shawshank Redemption. also a good movie :) :2thumbsup:

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

20th June 2008, 11:12 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 42

thoshair-ethaih kulakgnaanaam varna sankar karakaih
utsaathyanthe jaathi dharma kul dharma cha shaswathah

Because of the evil deeds of the those who destroy the family tradition, eradicates the spiritual traditions welfare deeds of the lineage

இவர்களின் தீயச் செயல்களால் ஜாதிக் கலப்பு ஏற்பட்டு, குடுமபத்தில் குலத்தின் பழைமையான ஆசாரங்கள் அழிகின்றன

Shakthiprabha.

20th June 2008, 11:20 AM

Arjuna's mistaken notions, ideas (FROM MACRO LEVEL ONLY) are clearly portrayed in the above few verses. This, is the state of many religious people, who instead of holding on to the horse and move towards the destination, worships and feel sated by praising and taking care of the horse itself.

Finally the horse becomes the object of worship and it swaps itself in the place of the destination.

Shakthiprabha.

24th June 2008, 02:32 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 43

utsanna kuldharmaaNam manushyaaNam janardhana
narake aniyatham vaasaha bhavathi itheeanu sushruma

I have heard from learned men, oh janarthanah, that such ppl who destory their family traditions, stay put in hell

ஹே ஜனார்தனா, இத்தகையவர்கள், குல தர்மததை அழித்தவர்களின் நரக வாசம் தவிர்க்க இயலாதது என்று ஆன்றோர் சொல்ல கேள்விப் பட்டிருக்கிறேன்

Shakthiprabha.

25th June 2008, 11:12 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 44

aho bata mahath paapam kartum vyavasthitha avayam
yadh raajya sukhalobEna hanthum svajanam udyathah

Alas! how strange that, we do all sinful acts, overcome by the desire for kingly pleasures and happiness! We are prepared to even kill our own men!

அந்தோ பரிதாபம்! ராஜ்ய சுகத்திற்காக பேராசைக் கொண்டு, நாம் எத்தனைப் பெரிய பாபத்தைம் கூட செய்யத்துணிகிறோம்!

Shakthiprabha.

25th June 2008, 11:15 AM

If we put ourselves in the place of ACCUSED, when arjuna laments about the sinful deeds a normal man, we may spot many of our own deeds, which we tend to dismiss, labelling them as "the ways of world".

I get reminded of the movie "anniyan" where few acts which are acceptable as social norms as being 'PRACTICAL' and few other selfish actions (or non action ) are labelled as sin.

Almost every act of a normal man crops up from SELFISH motive.

Very rarely we may find exceptions who have not tainted themselves by such acts....Or... may be NONE.

anbu_kathir

25th June 2008, 12:45 PM

Almost every act of a normal man crops up from SELFISH motive.

Every act, I guess. To get out of this nature we must move from ignorance(avidya) to knowledge(vidya).

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

17th July 2008, 12:10 PM

Almost every act of a normal man crops up from SELFISH motive.

Every act, I guess. To get out of this nature we must move from ignorance(avidya) to knowledge(vidya).

Love and Light.

:bow:

To realise all around oneself is nothing BUT one's OWN extended self.

Shakthiprabha.

17th July 2008, 12:29 PM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 45

yathi maam aprathiikaaram ashasthram shastra paaNayah:
daaradthraashtraaha raNe hanthuh thathme kshematharam bhaveth

I would rather consider that, even if sons of drudhrastra kill me when I am unarmed, or not resisting.
// i.e. in unrighteous manner //

ஆயுதமின்றியும், எதிர்க்காமலும் இருக்கும் என்னை, திருதராஷ்டிர குமாரர்கள் கொல்வார்களேயானால், அதுவே எனக்கு நலம்

Shakthiprabha.

17th July 2008, 12:31 PM

anbu_kathir

18th July 2008, 10:23 AM

// I would like to invite opinions on whether or not arjuna was SELFISH when he said

"I do not want to taint MYSELF with sin, by performing such act"

Is it not true, that most ppl even while doing a good act, are doing it for their own selfish benefit of
earning 'good karma'?

and here MOST PPL = ALMOST ALL OF US

//

Yes of course. I guess most spiritual teachers also advocate the 'earning' of good karma by performing good actions and refraining from bad karma by not indulging in sinful actions.

I suppose it is done that way because Karma yoga ( sacrificing the results of all actions to God and indulging in the performance of SwaDharma) is not all that simple. It takes time to realise one's Swadharma, it is a process that is continuously refined and good karma definitely provide fertile ground for the flowering of Swadharma from within.

Arjuna, taunted by the demons (which were once his guides) of the 'general' teaching of good/bad, lies on the threshold which is probably the most painful one in the spiritual path. It should definitely be his 'good' karma that made Krishna available to him, and he is eventually shown the way to transcend the general notions of good/bad.

Not everyone has this option/awareness of a Guru, though. And perhaps this is why most continue to be motivated by the rewards of good actions, a better next lifetime, or time in heaven..etc etc. In a way it is good, at least that way good things are done. For the realised soul this is 'natural' and requires no external effort and motivation.

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

18th July 2008, 10:39 AM

I suppose it is done that way because Karma yoga ( sacrificing the results of all actions to God and indulging in the performance of SwaDharma) is not all that simple. It takes time to realise one's Swadharma, it is a process that is continuously refined and good karma definitely provide fertile ground for the flowering of Swadharma from within.

Love and Light.

:exactly:

:ty: I very much looked forward to ur views on this !

Shakthiprabha.

18th July 2008, 11:58 AM

CHAPTER 1 VERSE 46

evamukthvaa arjunah sankye rathopasthE upaavishat
visrajya sasharam chapam shoka samvigna maanasa

So saying, arjuna, puts aside his bows and arms on the battlefield and sits on his chariot overwhelmed with immense grief

இவ்வாறு சொல்லிய அர்ஜுனன், யுத்தகளத்தில் தன் வில்லையும் அம்பையும் எறிந்து விட்டு, மனதில் வருத்தம் மேலிட தேரில் அமர்ந்தான்.

Shakthiprabha.

21st July 2008, 12:37 PM

The first chapter is referred as

"Arjuna Vishaadha yogam"

"அர்ஜுன விஷாத யோகம்"

Vishaadha = Disturbed, hence the name.

Arjuna who had given up on the situation was helplessly seeking solace from the lord. Thanks a million to arjuna, but for whom, we would not have got a treasure "THE BHAGAVAD GITA"

This gita has served as a guide to many arjunas who are disturbed, and would continue to guide many more.

////////// End of Chapter one! /////////

Hari om!

Shakthiprabha.

21st July 2008, 12:46 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 1

(Sanjaya said)
tham thathaa krupayavishtam ashru poornaa kulekshanam
visheedhantham itham vaakyam uvaacha mathusoothanah

To a grief stricken arjuna, full of compassion and whose eyes were brimming with tears, to him, spoke Madhusoodhana

(சஞ்சயன் சொன்னதாவது)

சோகம் மேலிட, இரக்கத்தின் மிகுதியால், கண்ணிர் மல்கி நிற்கும் அர்ஜுனைப் பார்த்து, மதுசூதனன் பின்வருமாறு கூறினான் ...

Shakthiprabha.

30th July 2008, 11:23 AM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 2

Bhagwan said
Kuthasthvaa kashmalam idham vishmE samupasthitham
anaaryajooshtam asvarkyam akeerthi karm arjuna

Dear Arjun, from where did these impure thoughts come upon u, at this time of crisis? This is not right for honourable men as they do not lead to higher planes of life but only defames the person

ஓ அர்ஜுனா! நற்குணத்தோனுக்கு தகாததும், புகழ் சேர்க்காததும், ஸ்வர்கத்திற்கு இட்டுச் செல்லாததுமான இம்மனசஞ்சலம், இக்கட்டானா நேரத்தில் உனக்கு எங்கிருந்து வந்தது?

harishkumar09

30th July 2008, 05:10 PM

If you go like this , verse by verse chapter by chapter you will get nowhere ! There are several key ideas in the BG and I would advise you take up those ideas , then quote the relevant verses and then explain it.

Ideas often continue between chapters, and an idea stretches between many verses and many chapters. These verses need to be clubbed together and explained.

Often the meaning of a verse becomes clearer when you see it in the context of the greater idea (stretching across several chapters) within which it is contained.

harishkumar09

30th July 2008, 05:12 PM

I havent read the entire thread but Kurukshetra was also a place of pilgrimage so its called as dharmakshetra,and as one our friends have said there is a war going on between good and evil so from that point to it is dharmakshetra as the divine dharma is being played out there.

Shakthiprabha.

30th July 2008, 05:20 PM

If you go like this , verse by verse chapter by chapter you will get nowhere ! There are several key ideas in the BG and

Ideas often continue between chapters, and an idea stretches between many verses and many chapters. These verses need to be clubbed together and explained.

Often the meaning of a verse becomes clearer when you see it in the context of the greater idea (stretching across several chapters) within which it is contained.

I do accept meaning becomes clearer when u see the context stretching to several verses.

This is very naive, attempt of just reciting one shloka per day, and to think of god for a minute or clear our mind of confused thoughts for just split second.

I would advise you take up those ideas , then quote the relevant verses and then explain it.

I am not sure, if I have the ability or if i can ably combine the apt ideas and put them in capsules.

Anyone else can start it in a diff thread and I shall be too happy to read and enlighten myself :thumbsup:

The aim of this thread is to KNOW one shloka per day (or whenver possible ) and just enjoy the meaning and its relevance.

Its a very childish thread (attempt) , started in LOUNGE section, wihch was dragged here (for its relavance) do not expect any greater explanations here :oops:

Your contributions or otherwise explanations correcttions etc (as one shloka per day) are most welcome.

harishkumar09

30th July 2008, 05:59 PM

Good and I agree, yes good thinking and good motives you have,but the point of the matter is if you want to think about God then you should know about Him properly and then think about it.

I am not against your attempt , but I was just giving you a suggestion.

May be I will try and attempt to do it.

harishkumar09

30th July 2008, 06:05 PM

IMMORTAL MORAL CODE for Humanity.

BG a "Moral Code" ?

Far from it !

It is a spiritual document concerned with the highest transcendental knowledge far from the ethical and moral codes of humanity. In fact it precisely asks us to make the Supreme Soul and our own soul the standard to measure things, and rise above notions of good and evil, right and wrong which are human created and change with times.

Sri Krishna asks Arjuna to establish himself in his soul and then fight, lead a soul-centered life, not a moral or ethical centered life.

Shakthiprabha.

30th July 2008, 06:22 PM

Shakthiprabha.

31st July 2008, 10:18 AM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 3

Bhagwan said
Klaibyam maa sma gamah partha naithath thvayy upa pathyathe
kshudhram hruthaya thourbalyam thyakthvoththishta paranthabha

partha! chastiser of enemies, shun this degrading impotence, which does become you. Leave this weakness of heart and rise up.

பார்த்தனே! எதிரியை வாட்டுபவனே, மனத்தளர்வையும், கோழைத்தனமும் உன் இயல்புக்கு அழகல்ல. இம்மனச்சோர்வை விட்டு எழுந்திரு

Shakthiprabha.

1st August 2008, 11:00 AM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 4

katham bheeshmam aham sankye dhronam cha madhusoodanah
ishubhih prathiyothasyaami poojaarhaav arisoodhana

Arjuna says
"O madhu soodhanah, (killer or madhu the demon) How can I counter attack or battle with people like bheeshma or drona of respect and worship

ஹே மதுசூதனா! பெருமதிப்பிற்குறிய த்ரோணர் பீஷ்மர் போன்றோரை எதிர்த்து நான் எப்படி யுத்தத்தில் போரிடுவேன்

Shakthiprabha.

1st August 2008, 11:18 AM

மது என்பவன் அரக்கன் என்று கீதை கூறுகிறது.

மதுசூதனன் என்றால் மது என்ற அரக்கனை வீழ்த்தியவன்/கொன்றவன்

உலக ஸ்ருஷ்டிக்கு முன், காலங்களுக்கு அப்பால், சூஷ்மத்தில் விஷ்ணு தியானித்திருந்த போது, அவர் காதுகளிலிருந்து 'மது' என்றும் 'கிதபா' என்றும் இரண்டு அரக்கர்கள் தோன்றினர். அவர்கள் ப்ரம்மாவை அழித்துவிட எண்ணிய போது, ப்ரம்மா, தேவியிடம் ஷரண் புகுந்ததாகவும், விஷ்ணுவிடத்தில் மாயையையாய் இருந்த தேவி விடுபட்டதால், விஷ்ணுவை மாயையிலிருந்து நீங்கிய பின், இவ்விரு அரக்கர்களைக் கொன்றதாகவும் புராணம் கூறுகிறது. (தேவி மஹாத்மீயம்)

Shakthiprabha.

4th August 2008, 12:07 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 5

gurun ahathvaahi mahaanubhaavan
shreyah bhokthum bhaikshyam abhi iha lokE
hathva arth kaamaamthu gurun iha eva
bhunjiiya bhogaan rudhira pradhikthaan

Much better it is, to beg and earn living, than to
slay great souls and gurus. They are my superiors wealth and comforts I earn otherwise by slaying them, would then be tainted with their blood

மதிப்பிற்குறிய பெரியோரையும் குருமார்களையும் கொல்வதை விட இவ்வுலகில் பிச்சை எடுப்பதே மேல். இப்படி மேலானவர்களைக் கொன்று அடையும் போகமும், செல்வமும், அவர்கள் இரத்தத்தில் தோய்க்கபட்டவையாகும்

crazy

4th August 2008, 01:19 PM

naam padippatharkku geethai ennum paadam koduthaan :musicsmile:

sp akka :thumbsup:c

Shakthiprabha.

4th August 2008, 01:20 PM

// nandri crazy,
thavarugaL iruppin manikka!
etho enaal mudinthathu.. //

crazy

4th August 2008, 01:24 PM

//akka, u didnt confuse me with someone else? enkitta edhukku manippu? :? iam reading ur post and trying to understand it....not in a position to correct or come with better meanings/explanations //

Shakthiprabha.

8th August 2008, 12:15 PM

I am a bit embarassed to tell this here.

Apart from saturdays and sundays, the days my mind is not very tranquil or lacking higher frequency, I refrain from posting the shlokas. So plz bear with me.

___

Sometime this week or next week, I shall try to consolidate all verses of chapter 1 and paste the entire translation as a single post .

That would be helpful in capturing the jist as a whole //

Shakthiprabha.

8th August 2008, 12:29 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 6

na chaiyethad vidhyam katharanna- gareeya
yad vaa jayem yadhi vaanah jayeyu
yaan eva hathva na jijeevishamah
thE avasthitah pramuke thaarathrashtrah

I am unsure which is better, to conquer or to be conquered. The sons of drudhrastra, whom, after we conquer, we would not bother to live, are standing in this field

நாம் அவர்களை ஜெயிப்பதா, அல்லது அவர்கள் நம்மை ஜெயிப்பதா, இவ்விரண்டில் எது சிறந்தது என்று புரியவில்லை. எவர்களைக் கொன்றால் நாம் உயிர்வாழ விரும்ப மாட்டோமோ, அந்த த்ருதராஷ்ட்ர குமாரர்கள் நம் எதிரில் நின்று கொண்டிருக்கிறார்கள்

Shakthiprabha.

11th August 2008, 03:45 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 7

karbaNya thosho beheth svaabhavah
pruchchaami tvaam dharm sammooda chethah:
yach chrEya syaan nischitham broohi thanmE
sishyasthe aham saadhi maam tvaam prapannam

I am blinded by compassion and weakness. I have lost the ability to see what is best for me. My composure is lost, I know not what is right. I surrender unto you, to guide me, I am your disciple waiting to be instructed

என் இதயம் இரக்கத்தால் நிரம்புகிறது. கடமை என்ன என்பதை அறியாது தடுமாறுகிறேன். நான் உம் சிஷ்யனாய் உன்னை ஷரண் புகுந்தேன். எனக்கு நல்லது எது என்று விளக்க்கி, அறிவுரை வழங்கவேண்டும்

*******

அழுதபிள்ளைக்கு பால்! பாஞ்சாலி, தன்னை மறந்து 'கண்ணா' காப்பாற்று என்று யாவற்றையும் துறந்த நிலையில் அழைத்த போதே கண்ணன் வந்தான்.

'நான் ஏதும் அறியாதவன், என்னை நீயன்றோ காக்க வேண்டும்', என்று நம்மை தாழ்த்தி அவனை ஷரண் புகுந்தால், அர்ஜுனனுக்கு கீதையாகிய பொக்கிஷத்தையே போதித்த கண்ணன், நம்மிடம் வராமலா போய்விடுவான்!?

அவனை கூப்பிடாதவரை அவன் வருவதில்லை. அழையதார் வீட்டை மிதியாதோன் (மிதியாதது) பரம்பிரம்மம்!

Shakthiprabha.

12th August 2008, 10:09 AM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 8/9/10

na hi prapashyaam imam apanudyaad
yath shokam ucchoshaNam inthiryaaNaam
avaapya bhoomav asapathnamratham
raajyam soraaNam api chaadhipathyam ||

evam mukthvaa hrusheekesham gudakeshah paranthapah
na yothasye ithi govindham ukthvaa thooshNeem babhoovah: ||

thamuuvaacha hrusheekeshah prahaSann iva bharatha
senayor upayor madhyE visheedhantham itham vacha ||

Even if I acquire great wealth, kingdom in earth, or life like a demigod in other words, I find no way I can drive away this grief which drain my senses.

After speaking these words, to Hrusheekesha, arjuna chastiser of enemies said he shall not fight,
and became silent.

O drudhrashtra, thus, smiling amidst the two armies, spoke the lord, to the shattered arjuna

பெரும் செல்வம் பெற்றாலும், பூவுலகில் சாம்ய்ராஜ்யங்கள் அடைந்தாலும், மேலுலகிலும் தேவர்களுக்கு உரிய பதவியும், பொருளும் பெற்றாலும், என் புலன்களை கொல்லும் இந்த துக்கத்தை போக்காது

ஹுருஷீகேசனிடம் அர்ஜுனன் இவ்வாறு கூறிவிட்டு, "நான் போர் புரிய மாட்டேன்"
என்று சொல்லி மௌனித்தான்.

ஹே த்ருதராஷ்டிரனே, நிலைகுலைந்து சேனைகளுக்கு நடுவில் நின்றவனிடம், புன்முறுவலுடன்
பகவான் க்ருஷ்ணன் இந்த வார்த்தைகளை பேசலானார்

Shakthiprabha.

13th August 2008, 01:36 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 11/12/13

ashochyaan anvashochah: tvam pragyavaadhan cha baashase
gathasoona agathaasooncha na anushochanthi panditha ||

na tu eva aham jaathu na asam na tvam na ime janadhipaaha
nacha eva na bhavishyamaha sarvevayam athah param ||

dehino-asmin yatha dehe kaumaram youvanam jaraa
thatha dehanthara prapthir dheera: thathra na muhyathi ||

The Lord spoke

"You speak wise words, yet you grieve for what is not worthy.
Learned men do not worry about people the dead or living"

Never was it that, at any particular point of time did you exist, nor I ,
nor these kings. Never at any particular point of time, we would
stop existing

Just as body goes thro childhood, youth and oldage, so does
the soul transmigrate from one body to another. A realised
soul, would not be baffled because of these.

பகவான் பின்வருமாறு கூறினார்.

அறிவுமிக்க சொற்களை கூறும் நீயே வருந்த தேவையற்றதற்கு
வருந்துகிறாய். இருப்பவர்களுக்கோ இறந்தவர்களுக்கோ ஞானிகள்
வருந்துவதில்லை.

நானோ நீயோ இந்த அரசர்களோ எப்பொழுதும் இருந்ததுமில்லை.
இனி இல்லாமல் போகப்போவதும் இல்லை.

இந்த உடல் எவ்வாறு பால்யம், பருவம், மூப்பு என்பதை கடந்து செல்கிறதோ,
அவ்வாறே ஆன்மாவும் ஒரு சரீரத்தை விடுத்து வேறொன்றிற்குள் புகுகிறது.
எல்லாம் அறிந்த ஒருவன் இதைப் பற்றி குழம்பி வருந்துவதில்லை.

Shakthiprabha.

19th August 2008, 03:57 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 14/15/16/17/18

maathraah sparishaasthu kauntheya seethoshNa suka dukhathah
aagmaapayino anithyaa thaan thithishsva bharatha ||

yam hee na vyathyanthy ethe purusham purusharshabha
sama-dhukka-sukham dhiiram so amruthathvaaya kalpathe ||

na asatho vidhyathe bhavo na abhavo vidhyathe sathah
ubayor abhi drushtah anthah thu anayoh thathvatharshibhi ||

avinaashi thu thadh viththiyena sarvam idham thatham
vinaasham avyayasye asya kaschith karththum arhathi ||

anthavanthah ime deha nithyasya yokthah shariiriNah
anaashino aprameyasya thasmaath yudhyasva bharatha ||

Arjuna! These feelings which arise from sense objects and senses
are temporary. The interactions of these results in pleasure pain, heat and cold.
One has no choice but to tolerate them.

Krishna a refers arjuna as "noblest of men" and proceeds to say "One who is
tranquil and undisturbed by the duality of happiness and distress, is the right one
for liberation

There is no elongation in non-existent and in existent there is no cessation, this has been
analysed and concluded by the wise and seers.

Realise that, by whom this entire body is pervaded is not destructible. No one can
cause destruction this imperishable soul.

Embodied soul is infinite, indestructible, eternal and immeasurable. Whereas only this
body is subjected to destruction and is short lived. Hence o bharatha! arise and fight!

குந்தி மைந்தனே! குளிர்ச்சி, வெப்பம், சுகம், துக்கம் போன்ற உணர்ச்சிகள்
புலன்களுக்கு உட்பட்டவை. நிலையற்றவை. அர்ஜுனா அவற்றை பொறுத்துக்கொள்ள வேண்டியதாகிறது.

மனிதருள் எவனை சுகம் துக்கம் போன்ற இரட்டைகள் பாதிப்பதில்லையோ, எவன் இவற்றை
சமமாக பாவிக்கிறானோ அவனே அமரநிலையை அடைய தகுதியுடையவன்.

இல்லாததற்கு நீண்ட இருப்பு இல்லை. இருப்பதற்கு என்றும் இல்லமையோ அழிவோ இல்லை. இந்த
உண்மைகளை தத்துவ ஞானிகளால் கண்டு உணரப்பட்டுள்ளது.

எது அனைத்திலும் வியாபிக்கப்பட்டிருக்கிறதோ அது அழிவற்றது. அதனை எவராலும் அழிக்கமுடியாது.

கட்டுண்ட இந்த ஆன்மா அழிக்கமுடியாத, அளவிட இயலாத, நித்தியமானது. இந்த உடலோ முடிவடையக்கூடியது. ஆகவே அர்ஜுனா! யுத்தம் செய்வாயாக!

crazy

19th August 2008, 05:14 PM

kanna :bow:

Shakthiprabha.

21st August 2008, 12:15 PM

It is interesting to read, bhashan /commentary or interpretation given by various achaaryas! Some days we shall ponder upon what these acharyas try to tell us by referring these verses.

I am refering to the source, "bhagavad-gita.org" for the same.

There are four Vaishnava sampradayas or traditions duly initiated by
"shri"
"rudra"
"Brahma" and
"Kumaras"

We shall not intervene or bother much about the classification of sampradayas, but, let us concentrate about on what these acharyas under diff sampradays try to convey to us.

Sri sampradaya has Ramanujaacharya's interpretations

Madhvacharya for Brahma sampradaya,

Visnuswami lead Rudra Sampradaya,

Nimbaditya spoke on Nimbarka Sampradaya.

Shakthiprabha.

21st August 2008, 12:32 PM

I wanted to share my thoughts, after reading visnuswami's commentary on verse 14

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 14

குந்தி மைந்தனே! குளிர்ச்சி, வெப்பம், சுகம், துக்கம் போன்ற உணர்ச்சிகள்
புலன்களுக்கு உட்பட்டவை. நிலையற்றவை. அர்ஜுனா அவற்றை பொறுத்துக்கொள்ள வேண்டியதாகிறது.

Visnuswami strikes a blunt truth when he says" Arjuna probably would not be grieving for ppl who are dead or for people who is going to die, BUT FOR HIMSELF, who is gonna suffer their loss."

It all finally boils down to THE SELF. We are happy because THE SELF within us is pleased. We are unhappy because the SELF confined in our body suffers.

Loss of kith and kins or relatives are more sorrowful because THE SELF experience sorrow. IT IS THEN, the question of other person's absense, or their suffering comes into picture.

IF someone suffers, we feel sad because, primarily

"I' in me feel sad for someone's suffering.

next comes the feeling

"oh...he is suffering in pain!"

It is a very minute thing where on noticing, we can trace the root of all miseries and happiness.

That is why krishna goes to say, sorrow or happiness is NOT IN THE external beings / things, your sorrow or happiness IS ROOTED in you (in each of us). Chemical and physical reactions like heat, cold etc CANNOT BE surpassed as it has its characteristics which will not vanish. There fore WE CANNOT ERADICATE heat or cold (here the conditions of our mind i.e. sensuary pleasure or pain) . The solution hence is TOLERANCE. We can or HAVE TO tolerate these dualities. When tolerance becomes habbit, it ceases to bother us over a period of time!

Intersting :)

anbu_kathir

21st August 2008, 04:24 PM

Shakthiprabha.

21st August 2008, 04:45 PM

Oh thats ISKCON site :?
We have such ppl everywhere kathir. Lets take what we want and leave out what we cant or wont accept :)
I take the source there, cause, as much as I can, before posting, I try to LISTEN to the shloka for right pronunciation!

Shakthiprabha.

23rd August 2008, 10:54 AM

I would like to share these words, on this day of janmashtami to all my friends out there.

___

Krishna says:

This whole universe is filled by me.

All beings pervaded by me, but I am not supported by them.

Yet those born are not within me.

Like how wind everlastingly occupies the space above us and moves throughout, so do all created beings occupy me. When an age dissolves away, all beings enter into me, when an age begins again, I remold them and send them forth.

I am the way, the supporter, the lord,
the witness, the dwelling, the refuge,
the friend, the origin, the dissolution,
the resting place, the changeless seed.

I give heat; the rain I unleash
and stop at will. I likewise am
the power of immortality and death,
being and non-being.

___

Unto him we shall prostrate :bow:

anbu_kathir

23rd August 2008, 11:24 AM

Ahoy there buddy Krishna. I just wanted to say, extreme wisdom 'seems' pretty similar to madness :D.

Happy birthday, btw.

Just kidding.

Love and Light.

I would like to share these words, on this day of janmashtami to all my friends out there.

___

Krishna says:

This whole universe is filled by me.

All beings are in me, but I am in them.

Yet those born are not within me.

Shakthiprabha.

23rd August 2008, 11:34 AM

anbu_kathir

23rd August 2008, 11:58 AM

All beings are in me, but I am in them.

SP, I think this should be " All beings are in me, but I am not in them".

Not sure though.

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

23rd August 2008, 12:07 PM

illai, thats how its written.

I think it means to say "All are in me, and I am them too"

Omnipotent u see! So it is pervaded EVERYWHERE !

Just like how upanishads say,

Self is one. It moves, yet moves not. Its far yet near. Its unmoving, yet moves faster than mind. That which we can comprehend as KNOWN and UNDERSTOOD yet not-known!

So, likewise

All beings are in that!
and..
That is also in all beings!

thats how I understood :?

crazy

23rd August 2008, 06:11 PM

nto him we shall prostrate :bow:

:bow: :bow: :bow:

anbu_kathir

24th August 2008, 10:11 AM

SP, is this the site from which you took this text ?

http://www.humanistictexts.org/bhagavad.htm ( Lesson 9 , verses 4-7)

I think they left a 'not' in that line ( 'All beings are in me, but I am in them' ) . The verse says

" Mayaa tatmidam sarvam jagad-avyakta moorthinaa
mat sthaani sarva bhootaani na cha-aham teshva-avasthitah "

The meaning, from bhagavad-gita.org goes like this -

sarvam-jagad = All the universes , tatam = are pervaded , mayaa = by me , avyakta moorthinaa = in an imperceptibly subtle manifestation , sarva bhootaani = all living entities , mat-sthaani = have their support in Me, aham cha = but I , na avasthitah = am not supported , teshu - in them.

All of the universes are pervaded by Me, in an imperceptibly subtle manifestation, and all living entities find their support in me, but I am not supported in them.

But there is another verse in the same chapter 9, the 29th one, whose meaning is given in bhagavad-gita.org goes somewhat like this -

I am equally disposed to all living entities, there is neither friend nor foe to me. But those who are my Bhaktaas, ( I am not translating this .. ISKCON has a slightly biased meaning to this ) they are in Me, and I am in them too.

Love and Light.

illai, thats how its written.

I think it means to say "All are in me, and I am them too"

Omnipotent u see! So it is pervaded EVERYWHERE !

Just like how upanishads say,

Self is one. It moves, yet moves not. Its far yet near. Its unmoving, yet moves faster than mind. That which we can comprehend as KNOWN and UNDERSTOOD yet not-known!

So, likewise

All beings are in that!
and..
That is also in all beings!

thats how I understood :?

Shakthiprabha.

25th August 2008, 10:47 AM

" Mayaa tatmidam sarvam jagad-avyakta moorthinaa
mat sthaani sarva bhootaani na cha-aham teshva-avasthitah "

The meaning, from bhagavad-gita.org goes like this -

sarvam-jagad = All the universes , tatam = are pervaded , mayaa = by me , avyakta moorthinaa = in an imperceptibly subtle manifestation , sarva bhootaani = all living entities , mat-sthaani = have their support in Me, aham cha = but I , na avasthitah = am not supported , teshu - in them.

All of the universes are pervaded by Me, in an imperceptibly subtle manifestation, and all living entities find their support in me, but I am not supported in them.

But there is another verse in the same chapter 9, the 29th one, whose meaning is given in bhagavad-gita.org goes somewhat like this -

I am equally disposed to all living entities, there is neither friend nor foe to me. But those who are my Bhaktaas, ( I am not translating this .. ISKCON has a slightly biased meaning to this ) they are in Me, and I am in them too.

Love and Light.

Dear anbuk kathir,

I also refer to chinmaya books with me at home and one more tamizh gita translation by Shivananda.

maya = by me ; tatham = pervaded ;
idham sarvam jagath = this whole world.
na cha aham thEshu avasthitah = I am not in them!

You are right! There is no controversy or confusion if we take the meaning of 'sthaani' as "SUPPORT".
i.e. everything is supported by that, and that is not supported by everything.

I shall change the same in my post :)

Shakthiprabha.

25th August 2008, 01:23 PM

CHAPTER 2 VERSE 19/20/21/22

ya yEnam vEththi hanthaaram yahchainam anyathE ehatham |
ubow tho na vijaaniitho na ayam hanthi na hanyathE ||

na jaayathE maryathE vaa kadhachin
na ayam bhoothva bavitha va na booyah |
ajo nithya shaasvatho ayam puraaNo
na hanyathE hanyamaanE sareerE ||

Vedha avinaashinam nithyam ya yenam ajam avyayam |
katham sa purushah paartha kam ghaathayathi hanthi kam ||

vasaamsi jiirNaani yatha vihaaya
navaani gruhNaathi naro aparaaNi |
thatha shareeraaNi vihaaya jiirNaani
anyaani samyaathi navaani Dehi ||

He who thinks 'the self' kills or is killed, is in ignorance.
This can neither slay nor be slain

This is neither born, nor dies. It is not that it exists temporily for brief period
of time to later ceases to be. IT is unborn, ever-existing, unchangeable, eternal.
This is not destroyed with the body.

He who understands the atman to be indestructible, eternal, unborn and everflowing,
oh arjuna, how can he slay or be slained?

Just like how a person discards the old worn-out clothing and adorns a new one,
so does this atman discard this old body and pervades a new one.

யார் இதை கொல்பவனாக நினைக்கிறானோ, அல்லது யார் கொல்லபடுவதாக
நினைக்கிறானோ அவன் அறிந்தவன் இல்லை. இது கொல்வதுமில்லை கொல்லப்படுவதும் இல்லை

பிறப்பதும் இல்லை, இறப்பதும் இல்லை. சிறிது காலம் தோன்றி பின் மறைவதும் இல்லை. பிறவாமல்,
நித்தியமாக, மாறாததாக, நிலையாக இருக்கும் இது உடல் அழிவுறும் போது அழிவதில்லை.

ஹே அர்ஜுனா! ஏவன் ஒருவன் ஆத்மன் அழிவற்றது, நிலையானது, பிறப்பற்றது, குறையாததாக அறிகிறானோ அவன்
எவ்விதம் கொல்வான்? அல்லது கொல்லப்படுவான்?

பழைய கிழிந்து போல உடைகளை களைந்து எவ்வாறு புது உடை அணிகின்றோமோ, அவ்வாறே
நைந்து போன உடல்களை களைந்து ஆன்மாவும் புது உடல் புகுகின்றது

Shakthiprabha.

28th August 2008, 11:03 AM

The whole process lies in differentiating ATMAN (self or brahman )
from the ilusionary seperate entity of individual 'ego'!

This 'self' is distinct from body or mind or ego!
Body / mind / intelligence package functions in the world as 'Ego' of a jivatma.

It is this ego, which suffers or rejoices or carries residues or credits of any act. Brahman or the SELF in each of us , on the other hand, stands out from all this, and never is affected. It is like a slate, which is neutral from what is written. It is like a screen, which is unaffected from the movie shown.

harishkumar09

4th September 2008, 05:56 PM

" http://bhagavad-gita.org " ? Oh boy, another ISKCON site.

SP, ISKCON favoured interpretations ellaam konjam biased.

Not that we can't learn anything from it, especially from such psychological statements. But the issues are with the statements regarding "God" or where Krishna refers to himself as Brahman. I just have a problem with these guys claiming that 'only' their interpretations are right.

Sigh.. the world never tires of such people and cults.

Love and Light.

Its a mistaken impression that ISKCON is an intolerant organisation claiming its interpretation to be the only correct one. In fact all hindu acharyas claim theirs to be the correct interpretation.

Ramanuja is as intolerant as ISKCON. Same with Adi Shankara. Same with Madhva. All fo them. If all opinions are correct , then these acharyas would never have come out with their individual opinions.

The difference between us and the semetics is that they enforce their interpretation with sword and fire , but we dont. Except for clashes between followers for ego issues , we dont see followers of these acharyas killing others because they had a different philosophy or gave a different opinion of truth.

anbu_kathir

4th September 2008, 06:49 PM

Its a mistaken impression that ISKCON is an intolerant organisation claiming its interpretation to be the only correct one. In fact all hindu acharyas claim theirs to be the correct interpretation.

Ramanuja is as intolerant as ISKCON. Same with Adi Shankara. Same with Madhva. All fo them. If all opinions are correct , then these acharyas would never have come out with their individual opinions.

The difference between us and the semetics is that they enforce their interpretation with sword and fire , but we dont. Except for clashes between followers for ego issues , we dont see followers of these acharyas killing others because they had a different philosophy or gave a different opinion of truth.

Dear Harish,

I didn't mean to say that other branches of Hinduism are tolerant compared to ISKCON. But there is not much doubt that the ideals of ISKCON as an organization look down upon other branches of Hinduism.

Having a systemic way of saying that ' All other Gods except Krishna are demigods ' ... ' The only authenticated versions of the Gita are by such and such lineage of Gurus'... etc etc makes me feel sick. Of course, the different Gurus of different philosophies have hailed their own philosophies to be superior, but the way these ideas are marketed by ISKCON is a bit astonishing and saddening to me.

I don't see any other 'organization'(in Hinduism, atleast) looking down upon other Hindu Gods, so personally I feel a bit sad. It is just my feeling that any such organization which maintains such a superiority complex of sorts cannot speak the whole truth or give maximum support to the members of the organization.

Having said all this, I have personally interacted with a few ISKCON members, and other people who are patrons, and there are indeed people who are made in Love, and their Love is not limited to any organization or community of people. It is the doctrine that bothers me more than the people.

You are somewhat correct about the way these contradictory philosophies reign in Bhaarata varsha when compared to the West,
but the followers of the different philosophies have indeed sometimes in the past used fire and sword against each other. However, much lesser than the West. Yes...

Love and Light.

harishkumar09

5th September 2008, 04:42 PM

Well the philosohphy of Ramanuja also holds all devas (Shiva,Ganesha) are merely a form of Vishnu , which is in one way worse than saying they are inferior to Vishnu , as atleast Iskconites give the devas their identity.

Also you forget that advaitins used to designate their philosophy as vedanta making advaita and vedanta synonymous. Prabhupada was preaching in such an atmosphere where even the existence of
the philosophies of Ramanuja and Madhva were not recognised and considered as vedanta.

So in that atmosphere, he had to hit back. He could not simply keep quite.

Well , the may eb its true iskconites are very repititious in their statements and they ahev got this image , but their stand is no different to those of Shankara and Ramanuja. Only the frequency of repitition might make some people sick, but they are not unique in their statement.

harishkumar09

5th September 2008, 04:46 PM

Shakthiprabha.

5th September 2008, 05:11 PM

Please bear with me this week. I shall go on to the next one soon. :(

anbu_kathir

6th September 2008, 10:08 AM

Its not superiority complex but a statement of fact (according to their philosophy) that other devas are inferior in nature. The fact that you have had pleasant experience shows that the "doctrine" ahs not corrupted its followers. Thats because the doctrine only mentions facts but due to the repitition appears as superiority complex to you.

Anyway perceptions differ and lets not fight it out endlessly and instead move on to the next shloka.

The doctrine mentions 'facts'? A doctrine is a doctrine. There can't be a 'fact' according to a doctrine, as you said. If there are facts according to doctrines, then they aren't facts, they are just opinions. Opinions to be justified by personal divine experience.

About Srila Prabhupada, I am no person to judge him or any other spiritual Master(or anyone for that matter). I didn't live during his time and don't known him that much.I just happened to read their views, their theology, talk with some of their people, and did not find it a convincing religion of Love-beyond-all-lines-of-separation.

One great thing that ISKCON managed to accomplish was to unite and encourage Krishna lovers across the planet. If there are Hare Krishna temples in so many countries across the globe, even in Russia, its because of ISKCON.

The people I know who did not change by the doctrine were people who were Krishna Lovers first and ISKCON members/patrons next. From my personal experience I could also see people who were simply confused by the doctrine, and couldn't make decisions from their own heart-space because the doctrine put up too much specific rules. That was sad.

Anyway, as you said, we will not argue over it any more, and leave this thread to SP to continue her work.

Love and Light.

Janar

6th September 2008, 08:34 PM

Well the philosohphy of Ramanuja also holds all devas (Shiva,Ganesha) are merely a form of Vishnu , which is in one way worse than saying they are inferior to Vishnu , as atleast Iskconites give the devas their identity.
.

Actually no, this viw is pretty much mainstream. The Saivas also believe that the forms of all other gods are the forms of Lord Shiva. ie Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Mahesvar, Sadsiva are His five faces...saying the as a "form of the supreme" makes them as worshippable as the supreme..demigod, however, makes them sound as if they are living creatures who are just living on another dimension...this cannot be said for Lord Shiva, Ganesh, Durga, Karitkeya etc..

the word demigod is a great , erronous misnomer. The word deva should just be as it is..or the beings of Light, since deva is assciated with Light...no "demigod" nonsense, even Mao ZeDong, China's communist leader and the ancient egyptian pharoahs were demigods..herculea was a demigod, elvis presley, frank sinatra were demigods...

harishkumar09

8th September 2008, 12:30 PM

Yes, I agree that demigod is a wrong designation. The correct word would be just "Deva" ( opposed to "Asura" Being of darkness and hater of the Light). But there is a specific reason Prabhupada uses certain words , demigods in this context. The westerners have always accused hindus of worshipping many gods and prabhupada was at pains to clarify the issue. So he said Krishna was God and others were demigods. It must have clarified things to westerners.

I think all of Prabhupada's works need to be re-written as many of his works bear the stamp of his times and may be mis-interpreted by today's people.

Actually no, this viw is pretty much mainstream. The Saivas also believe that the forms of all other gods are the forms of Lord Shiva. ie Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Mahesvar, Sadsiva are His five faces...saying the as a "form of the supreme" makes them as worshippable as the supreme..demigod, however, makes them sound as if they are living creatures who are just living on another dimension...this cannot be said for Lord Shiva, Ganesh, Durga, Karitkeya etc

The fact that a view is mainstream does not automatically make it correct. The Scriptures per se speak of Paramathman , Devas and Asuras. I don't see why these things have to be "interpreted" to mean something else , for example , an emanation (or form) of Vishnu or Shiva.

Shakthiprabha.

8th September 2008, 04:22 PM

Chapter 23/24/25/26/27/28

nainam chindhanthi shasthraaNi nainam dhahathi paavakah
na chainam kledhayanthi apaha na shoshyathi maruthah: ||

acchethyah ayam athahyah ayam akledhyah ashoshyah eva cha
nithyah sarva gathah sthaaNur achalah ayam sanaathanah ||

avyakthah ayam achinthyah ayam avikaaryah ayam uchyathe
thasmad evam vithithva-inam na anushochithum arhasi ||

atha cha enam nithya jaatham nithayam va manyase mrutham
thathaapi thvam mahabaho nainam shochithum arhasi ||

jaathasya hi dhruvo mruthyu dhruvam janma mruthasya cha
thasmad aparihaarye arthe na thvam shochitum arhasi ||

avyakthaadheeni bhoothaani vyaktha mathyaani bharathah
avyaktha nidhanaani eva thathra ka paridhevana ||

The soul cannot be cut by weapon, burnt by fire, drenched by water
or withered away by wind

This soul cannot be severed, burnt or withered. It is eternal, omnipresent,
immovable, premordial

It is uncreated, (to be differentiated from NOT-CREATED) imperceivable,
ever present. Having known the same, you should not grieve.

IF u think, soul goes thro the circle of birth and death, even then,
oh mighty warrior, you should not grieve.

For, that which is born must die. That which dies would be born again.
Why lament for something which is inevitable?!

Bharatha! all these creations are from unmanifest in the beginning,
then are manifest, again goes back to the unmanifest. Why then lament?

ஆயுதங்கள் இதை வெட்டுவதில்லை. தீ எரிப்பதில்லை.
நீர் நனைப்பதில்லை. காற்று அலர்த்துவதில்லை.

இந்த ஆன்மாவானது வெட்டபடாதது, எரிக்கப்படாதது, அலர்த்த முடியாதது.
நித்தியமானது. எங்கும் நிறைந்தது. அசைக்கமுடியாதது. நிலையானது. பழமையானது.

தோன்றாதது. சிந்தனைக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டது மாறதது என்றெல்லாம் சொல்லப்படுகிறது.
இவ்வாறு இதனை அறிந்த நீ வருந்தல் ஆகாது!

ஆன்மாவானது பிறந்தும் இறந்துமான சுழற்சியில் தொடர்ந்து ஈடுபடுகிறது என்று
நீ நினைத்தாலும், அப்போதும் கூட வீரனே நீ வருந்தல் ஆகாது.

ஏனெனில், பிறந்ததற்கு இறப்பு உண்டு. இறந்த பின் மீண்டும் பிறக்கும் மறுக்க முடியாதது.
தவிர்க்கமுடியாத ஒன்றிற்காய் நீ வருத்தப்படத் தேவையில்லை.

பாரத! உயிர்கள் துவக்கத்தில் தோன்றாமல், இடையில் தோன்றி, இறுதியில் தோன்றாததாக
இருக்கின்றன. இதை குறித்து வருந்துவது ஏன்?

Shakthiprabha.

8th September 2008, 04:25 PM

anbu_kathir

10th September 2008, 10:08 AM

Friends,

For next couple of days, if anyone is interested or knowledgeable in this respective topic, please post ur views :

on

"UNMANIFEST" state !

Unmanifest, to manifest again and goes back to being unmanifest parabrahman! I think the talk is on DISSOLUTION ! (in totality)

Any interesting quotes, by any gurus or clan of philosophical thoughts / religions are welcome.

Discussions (healthy) are welcome too!

I have thought about this quite a bit , and it makes me nothing less than crazy. 'Time' is the whole problem here. What is being manifest? What is not manifest in the Unmanifest state? I certainly understand that all things change and go through cycles of construction and destruction through Time. But this 'unmanifest' and 'manifest' thing seems to be something more basic than that.

It looks like what is being talked about is the Creation of All things and the Destruction of All things. And these 'All Things', include 'Time' and 'Space' (Space-time, rather, now we know these 2 are just one thing really). So we ( atleast me ) have a really strange problem here. What is the meaning of Creation if it included the creation of Time? What is the Unmanifest 'state', if it has no correlation with the flow of time as we know it ? (a state generally is something related to Time).

I have discussed a few people about this whole 'Creation' thing. Is Creation 'eternal' or 'everlasting'? Note that there is a difference between the two words - eternal => out of Time, and everlasting => endlessly existing through Time. Why did it happen at all?

Ultimately after a lot of trouble, I had to accept the sad truth that these questions were meaningless for the mind. To ask 'why did it happen?', I assumed that it happened at a point of Time. But that's crazy, because Time was created too. 'Before' creation, 'Time' didn't exist. Well.. one sees how crazy it gets.

So I think Creation is not 'everlasting', but 'eternal'. There are no 2 things, no two states , - Manifest/Unmanifest. That seems to be a joke to me now, because the Unmanifest 'state' is not a state par se, as is the Manifest 'state'. They are one thing, and it is our minds which because of Maya comes to believe in these notions of time and space, hence the whole thing becomes puzzling and crazy.

Love and Light.

Meera-ssg

10th September 2008, 11:23 AM

It is puzzling and crazy ! The whole concept of manifesting and unmanifesting!

I found this site very interesting ! Nothing can be said true or false, because everything (including existence of god) is true and false in different perspectives.

What is true is the 'unmanifest', who is, but who is beyond conception!

I loved this site, because, it talks on annihilation as "awakening" at the highest level.

Link is here.

http://www.nijanand.org/cr.htm

It would be interesting to know some of ur views, ofcourse, apart from shakthiprabha's continuation on shlokas.

The site has 'personifications' of events and manifest and unmanifest states. Lets not concluide it as false, just because we catch the personfications and fail to grasp what is the foundation of the words. So please ignore the personifications and try to enjoy the substance alone.

Shakthiprabha.

24th September 2008, 02:48 PM

Chapter 2
Verse 29/30/31/32/33/34/35/36/37/38

Ashcharyavath pashyathi kashchith Enam
ashcharyavath vadhathi thatha eva cha anya:
aascharya vachchainam anya: sruNothi
shruthvapyenam vedhanacha eva kachith ||

dehi nithyam avathe ayam dehi sarvasya bharatha|
thasmaath sarvaaNi bhoothaani na thvam sochithum arhasi ||

svatharmam api chaveshya na vikampithum arhasi|
tharmyaathhi yuththaath chreya: anyath shathriyasyana vithyathE||

yadhruchaya chobabannam svarg dhvaaram apavrutham|
sukina: kshatriya: paartha labanthe yudham iidhrusam ||

atha cheth thvam imam dharmyam sangraamam na karishyasi|
thatha: svatharmam keerthim cha hitva papam avaapsyasi ||

akeerthim chaapi boothani kathayishyanthi the avyyayaam|
sambavithasya chakeerthir maraNath athirichyathE||

bhayadh raNadh uparatham mansyanthe thvaam maharathah:
yeshaam cha thvam bhahoomatho: bhoothva yasyasi lagavam||

avaachyavathamsh cha bahoon vadhishyanthi thava ahitha:
nindhanthasthava saamarthyam thatho: dhukkatharam nu kim

hatho va prapsyaaSi svargam jithvava pokshyasemaheem|
thasmath uthishta kauntheya yudhaaya krutha nishchaya: ||

suka dhukke same kruthvaa laba labou jaya jayou
thatha yuththaaya yujyasva naivam paapam avapsyasi||

Some are amazed to see the soul, some describe
the with awe, some hear about him with wonder and even then
some cannot understand the soul.

He who resides in the body is eternal, immortal and cannot be destroyed.
hence oh bharatha, you need not grieve for anyone.

As a dutiful kshatriya, you should fight for righteousness and there is nothing better
than fighting for justice.

Such kshatriyas are indeed happy for whom these battles come on its own which
takes them to heavenly abode.

However if u do not fight this righteous war, you would be tainted with sin
for neglecting your duty

World would speak ill of you, and for someone who is honoured, dishour
is worst than death itself

All great warriors and generals who have kept your in highest esteem would
assume you have left the battle out of fear and you would be labelled as a coward.

your foes would use cruel words and scorn your inability and discrediting you. Is there anything
which is more painful?

If you are killed, you would reach heavenly abode and if you conquer over ur enemies
you would enjoy the earthly pleasures. Therefore rise up and fight.

Be balanced in happiness or misery, loss or gain, victory or defeat, by being so , you
shall fight for the sake of fighting and never be blemished with sin.

ஒருவன் ஆன்மாவை ஆச்சர்யமாய் பார்க்கிறான். வேறொருவன் அதை ஆச்சரியமாய்ப் பேசுகிறான். இன்னொருவன் அதை ஆச்சரியம் போல் கேட்கிறான். கேட்டும் அவன் அதை புரிந்து கொள்வானில்லை

ஒவ்வொரு சரீரத்திலும் இருக்கும் ஆன்மாவை அழிக்க முடியாது. அர்ஜுனா இதற்காக நீ வருந்தாதே

உனது சுயதர்மத்தை நீ கருதினால், நீ சஞ்சலம் அடையக் கூடாது. நேர்மையான யுத்தத்தை விட க்ஷத்ரியனுக்கு மேலானது ஏதும் இல்லை.

தர்மத்தை காக்கும் யுத்தங்கள் தாமாகவே க்ஷத்ரியர்களுக்கு வாய்த்தால், அது விண்ணுலக வாயிலை திறப்பதற்கு வழியாகும். இதை இன்பமாகவே க்ஷத்ரியன் கருதுகிறான்.

நீ அறப்போர் செய்யாமல் இருப்பாயானால், உன் கடமையை புகழ் புறக்கணித்தவனாகிறாய். பாபத்தை பெருக்கிக்கொள்வாய்.

பிறர் உன் இழிவை பற்றி பேசுவார்கள். புகழ்நிலையில் இருக்கும் ஒருவனுக்கு ஏற்படும் இழிவு, மரணத்தை விட மோசமானது.

அச்சத்தினால் நீ போரில் புறமுதுகிட்டு பின்வாங்கியதாய் பெரும் வீரர்கள் எண்ணுவார்கள். உன்னை பற்றி பெருமையாய் எண்ணியவர்கள் இழிவாய் எண்ணுவார்கள்.

உன் பகைவர்களும் உன் திறனைஉ பழித்து சொல்லத்தகாத சொற்களால் ஏசுவார்கள். இதைவிட துன்பம் என்ன இருக்கிறது?

கொல்லப்பட்டால் நீ சொர்கம் அடைவாய். வென்றாலோ உலகில் அழியாப் புகழொடு இன்பம் பெறுவாய். எனவே குந்தி மைந்தனே போர் புரிய எழுந்து நில்.

இன்பமும் துன்பமும், லாபமும் இழப்பும், வெற்றியும் தோல்வியும் சமமாக கருதி போர் புரி. அதனால் நீ பாபம் அடையமாட்டாய்.

wrap07

24th September 2008, 10:16 PM

:D :notworthy:

Shakthiprabha.

17th October 2008, 03:59 PM

I deeply apologize for the delay in my next post due to other personal work and ill-health.

:bow:

Shakthiprabha.

17th October 2008, 03:59 PM

Chapter 2 Verses 39/40/41/42/43/44

esha the abhihita sankye bhudhiyir yoge tu imam shrunu
budhaya yukthaya yaya paarthu karm bandham prahasyasi ||

nehaabikraama nashaasthi prathyavayo na vidhyathe
svalpam apy asya dharmasya thraayathe mahatho abayath ||

vyavasayaathmica budhir ekeha gurunandhana
bahooshakahi anandhaascha bhudhaya-vyavasaayinaam ||

yamimaam pushpithaam vaacham pravathanthi avipaschithah:
vedhavaadharathah paarthana anyatha asthi ithi vaathinh: ||

kamathmanaha svarkapara janmakarm palapradhaam
kriyaa viseshabahoolaam bhog-aisvarya kathim prathi ||

bhog-aiswaryaprasakthaanaam thaya aphrahrtha-chethasaam|
vyavasaayathmika bhudhi: samathou na vidhiiyathe ||

So far Arjuna what I spoke was sankya . Now I shall
tell you about yoga, which is action without the motive of its fruitful benefits.
By following this, one can releave themselves from bondage of cause and effect.

In this path, there is no fear of loss , as even one step towards the goal would
save you and protect you from danger.

Those who are in this path have one goal, aim or purpose whereas ones who are
purposeless, their aim and desires are branched and unlimited.

Such men are attracted to limited decorative aims of vedas which takes them to
higher world and planets, for mere enjoyments and power. They would lead to
sense gratification and nothing beyond material benefits.

In their sense gratification and enjoyment, they fail to step towards spirtiuality
resulting in diversified desires which does not let them concentrate on the devotion
of the supreme lord.

உனக்கு உபதேசிக்கப்பட்ட இது ஸாங்க்யம் எனப்படும். இப்போது யோகத்தைப் பற்றி கூறுகிறேன்.
இதை நீ பின்பற்றினாயானால், தளைகளை உதறிவிடலாம்.

இந்தப் பாதையில் தீமையோ, தீங்கோ விளைவதில்லை. சிறிதளவு முயற்சியும் ஒருவனை
பெரும் பாதகத்திலெருந்து காப்பாற்றும்

குருவம்சத்தவனே இப்பாதையில் ஒரே இலக்குள்ள உறுதி இருக்கிறது. வேறு பலருக்கு பல்வேறு திசைகளில்
செல்லக்கூடிய உறுதியற்ற நிலையில்லாத எண்ணங்கள் படைத்தவர்களிடம் இருக்கும்.

வேதங்களின் அலங்காரச் சொற்களை பயன்படுத்தி, மகிழ்வார்கள். தாம் சொல்வதே உண்மை என்று
வாதிடுவார்கள்.

இவர்களுக்கு வானுலகமும், இகபர சுகம் பெறுவதுமே நோக்கமாகும். பல்விதமான இன்பம், பதவி, போகம்,
வானுலகம் அனுபவித்து, பிறவி தளையை களையமாட்டார்கள்.

இன்பத்தையும் பதவியையும் நாடுவதில் குறியாய், இறையின் பால் அன்பும் பற்றும் செலுத்தமுடியாத இவர்கள்
தியானத்திலும் சமாதியிலும் நிலையாக ஈடுபடுவதற்கான மன உறுதியைப் பெற முடியாது.

wrap07

17th October 2008, 07:51 PM

:notworthy:

podalangai

17th October 2008, 07:57 PM

nanri SP :)

Shakthiprabha.

22nd October 2008, 01:24 PM

Chapter 2 - Verses 45 to 53

Thraigunya vishaya vedha nisthraiguNya bhava-arjuna |
nirdhvandhvo nithya-sathvastho niryoga kshema athmavaan ||

yaavaan arththa udhapane sarvathah sampluthodhake |
thaavaan sarveshu vedheshu brahmaNasya vijaanathah: ||

karmaN eva athikasrasthe ma paleshu kadhachana |
ma karmaphala-hethur-bhoor ma the sangosthvakarmaNi ||

yogasththa: guru karmaaNi sangham thyakthva dhananjaya |
sidhya asidhdhyo: sama-bhoothva samathvam yoga uchyathe ||

dhooreNa he-avaram karma bhudhi yogaadh dhananjaya |
buddhou sharaNam anvichcha krupaNa : phala hethavah : ||

budhi yuktho jahatheeha ube sukrutha-dhushkruthe
thasmaadh yogaya yujyasva yogah: karma sukoushalam ||

karmajam budhi-yuktha hi phalam thyakthva maneshiNah:
janma bandha vinir mukthah: padham gacchanthi anaamayam ||

yadha the mohakalilam budhih vyathitharishyathi |
thadha gantaasi nirvedham shrothavyasya shruthasya cha ||

shruthi viprathipanna the yadha staasyathi nishchala |
samaadhava achala budhis-thadha yogam avapsyasi ||

Vedas talk on three basic natures. You arjuna rise beyond these
these natures. Free yourself from dualities of good and bad, from
posessing and acquiring. Be stable and meditate upon the self.

The purpose of water of a small pond, is served by vast body of water.
Similarly all vedas are within the realm of one who knows the spiritual truth.

You are duty bound to do ur actions, but not expect the result from those actions.
Do not be have the result as ur goal. Do not also shun your duties.

Follow the yoga of karma. Do your karma or duty and giveup attachment towards
success or failure. This equipoised state is yoga of karma.

Free yourself from fruits of all your actions, and be devoted to the supreme self.
Hey dhananjaya, those who desire to enjoy their fruit of actions are doomed in misery.

Those with spiritual diligence, get rid of both bad and good karmas, in this very birth.
Therefore practice yoga of karma with spiritual oneness.

Wise, devout men who are spirtually inclined, renounce the results of their action and
liberate themselves from the chain of birth and death. They thereby reach state of peace where
there is no misery.

When your mind rises above these maaya and mirages of life, nothing which is heard,
or to be heard, would matter to you.

When the science of vedhas and its language would no longer waver your mind and when
you remain steady and fixed in the knowledge of self, then you would have attained self-realisation.

வேதங்கள் கூறும் முக்குணங்களையும் கடந்து நில். அர்ஜுனா, நன்மை, தீமை, சுகம் துக்கம் போன்ற
இரட்டைகளிலிருந்து விடுபடு. உடைமைகளைக் கவர்வது, காப்பது என்ற சிந்தனைகளை விடுத்து
ஆன்ம சிந்தனையில் நிலைத்து இரு.

சிறு குளத்தின் உள்ள நீரின் பயன்பாடுகள் அனைத்தும் பெறும் ஆற்றுத் தண்ணியும் தணிப்பது போல்
ஆன்மாவை உணர்ந்தவனுக்கு வேதங்களும் அவ்வாறே.

கடமையை செய்வதற்கான அதிகாரம் உன்னிடம் உண்டு. அதன் பலனை பற்றிய அதிகாரம்
இல்லை. ஆகையால் உன் செயலின் பலன் உன் இலட்சியமாக இருக்கக்கூடாது. செயலைத் துறந்துவிடுதலும்
நன்றன்று.

பற்றைத் துறந்து வெற்றி தோல்வியில் சமநிலையில் இருந்து, கடமையைச் செய். மனதின் பற்றற்ற சமநிலையே
யோகம் எனப்படும்.

பலனை எதிர்பாராது, பரப்பிரம்மத்திடம் பற்று வை. பலனை எதிர்பார்ப்பவர்கள் கீழ்நிலைக்கு தள்ளப்படுவர்.

மனதின் சமநிலைப் பெற்றவன் நற்செயல், தீயசெயல்களை, அதன் பலன்களை எல்லாம் இப்பிறவியிலேயே
கடந்து விடுகிறான். எனவே நீ யோகத்தில் ஈடுபடுவாயாக

அறிவாளியோ ஆன்மபற்றின் மூலம், செயல்களின் பயனைத் துறந்து பிறவிப் பிணியிலிருந்து விடுதலை பெற்று
நிஷ்களங்க நிலையை அடைகின்றனர்.

உன் அறிவின் மதிமயக்கத்தை கடந்துவிட்டால், இதுவரை கேள்வியுற்றதும் இனி கேள்வியுறப்போவதும் பற்றி
யாதொரு கவலையும் கொள்ளமாட்டாய்.

நீ கேட்கின்ற வேதங்களில் மூழ்கித் திகைத்திருக்கும் உன் அறிவு, ஆடாது அசையாது எப்போது
நிலைத்து ஆன்மாவிலேயே நின்று விடுமோ அப்போது நீ ஆன்ம தெள்வுபெற்றவனாகிறாய்.

Shakthiprabha.

22nd October 2008, 01:26 PM

இங்கு ஆன்மசிந்தனையில் நிலைத்திருப்பது, ஆன்ம தெளிவு பெறுவது, முதலியவை, நன்றும் அல்லாத தீதும் அல்லாத ஒரு நிலை என்று கொள்ள வேண்டும். அந்நிலையில் நன்மை தீமைகளை கடந்து விடுகிறோம்

wrap07

22nd October 2008, 08:55 PM

Chapter 2 - Verses 45 to 53
karmaN eva athikasrasthe ma paleshu kadhachana |
ma karmaphala-hethur-bhoor ma the sangosthvakarmaNi ||

You are duty bound to do ur actions, but not expect the result from those actions.
Do not be have the result as ur goal. Do not also shun your duties.

கடமையை செய்வதற்கான அதிகாரம் உன்னிடம் உண்டு. அதன் பலனை பற்றிய அதிகாரம்
இல்லை. ஆகையால் உன் செயலின் பலன் உன் இலட்சியமாக இருக்கக்கூடாது. செயலைத் துறந்துவிடுதலும்
நன்றன்று.

:notworthy: :notworthy:

sp :D

Shakthiprabha.

31st October 2008, 12:48 PM

Chapter 2 - Verses 54 to 59

sthithaprakngnasya ka basha samadhisthasya keshava
sthithathiiha kim prabhasheth kim asiitha vrajeetha kim||

prajahaathi yadha kaamaan sarvaan paartha manogathaan|
aathman eva athmanaathushtah sthithaprakngnasthathochyathE ||

dhukkeshwva anuthvigna mana: sukeshu vigathaspriha: |
vitha raaga bhaya krotha: stithadhiir muniruchyathE ||

yah sarvathr anabisnehas thath thath praapya shubhashubam|
na abinandhathi na dhveeshti thasya pragjna prathishtitha ||

yadha samharathE cha ayam koormo angaani iva sarvasa:
indhiyaaN indhiriya-arththebyas thasya pragjna prathistitha||

vishaya vinivarththanthE niraaharasya dhehina: |
rasavarjam rasopyasya param dhrushtva nivarththathE ||

Arjuna questioned thus:
What are the signs of a person whose consciousness is steady and
merged in brahman? How does he sit, talk and walk?

Krishna spake thus:
When one gives up to all sensual and mental attachment and desires and gets his
mind fixed in self alone, then he is said to be in perfect wisdom.

One who is free from duality, does not elate in happiness or seek happiness,
is free from attachment, fear, anger then, he alone is a realised soul. He is a sage, a gnaani.

A person who is unattached, who does not rejoice in good, or who does not curse the bad,
is a person who is wise and fixed in truth.

Just like how a tortoise close its shell, a sage close himself to all sensual desires and objects.
Such a person is identified in perfect knowledge.

An embodied soul, even if restraining from sensual pleasure, the taste for for the pleasure
remains. Higher is this state where even the DESIRE and taste for the sensual pleasures
ceases to exist.

அர்ஜுனான் கெட்கிறான்:

க்ருஷ்ணா, சமாதி நிலையில் உறுதியான அறிவுடன் கூடியவன் எவ்வாறு இருப்பான். அத்தகைய
நிலைத்த ஞானத்தை உடையவன் எவ்வாறு நடப்பான், அமர்வான், பேசுவான்?

க்ருஷ்ணன் சொன்னதாவது:

அர்ஜுனா, எவனொருவன் தன் மனதின் ஆசைகளை உதறி, தன் ஆன்மாவில் அமைதியாய்
நிலைத்திருக்கிறானோ, அவனே உறுதியான அறிவுடையவன்.

துன்பங்களில் மனம் துவளாமலும், இன்பங்களை நாடி ஓடாமலும், பயம், கோபம், பற்று முதலிய அற்று
இருக்கும் ஒருவன் அறிவு படைத்த ஞானி என்று கொள்க.

எதிலும் பற்றின்றி இருப்பவனும், நல்லது வரும் போது மகிழாமலும், அல்லது வரும் போது வருந்தாமலும்
இருப்பவன், நிலையான அறிவு படைத்தவன் எனப்படுவான்

ஆமை எவ்வாறு தன் ஓட்டை இழுத்துக்கொள்ளுமோ, அவ்வாறே புலன்களை புலனுணர்வுகளை
புலனின்பங்களின் ஊடே செல்லாமல், இழுத்துக்கொள்பவனே ஞானி.

புலனுணர்வுப் பொருட்கள் ஒருவன் விலக்கினாலும், அவன் மனத்தின் ஏக்கத்தின் புலனின்பத்தின்
சொச்சம் இருக்கிறது. ஞானியின் நிலையோ அதையும் கடந்து, மகிழ்வோ, மகிழ்வில் நாட்டமோ
அற்ற நிலை.

Shakthiprabha.

31st October 2008, 12:53 PM

இதைப் படிக்கும் நமக்கோ ஞானியிடம் பொறாமையே வந்துவிடுகிறது. :lol2:

இரண்டு நிமிடம் மேல் அந்நிலையில நம்மால் ஒட்ட முடியவில்லையெனில், எத்துணை தூரம் பயணிக்க வேண்டும்.......இன்னும்... :)

The night is dark, and I am far from home;
lead Thou me on!
Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to see
The distant scene; one step enough for me.

என்ற வரிகள் நினைவு வருகிறது.

Shakthiprabha.

3rd November 2008, 12:50 PM

Chapter 2 - Verses 60 to 65

vishaya vinivarththanthe niraaharasya dheninah |
rasavarjam rasopyasya param dhrusthva nivarththathe ||

yathatho-hi-api kauntheya purushasya vipash chithah |
indriyaaNi pramaathiini haranthi prasabam manah: ||

thaaNi sarvaaNi samyamya yuktha aseeth mathpara: |
vashe-hi-yashe-inthriyaaNi thasya pragya prathishtitha ||

dhyayatho vishayaan pumsa: sangks theshu upajayathe |
sangaath sanjayathe kaamah kamaath krodha abhijayathe ||

krodhaath bhavathi sammoha: sammohaath smruthi vibramah: |
smruthi bramshaadh bhudhinaso budhinashath praNashyathi ||

raaga dvesha viyukthaisthu vishayaan indriyaischaran|
aathmavashyair vidheeyathma prasaadham adhigachathi||

prasade sarva dhukkanaam haanir asya upajayathe |
prasanna chethaso hy-ashu bhudhih paryavathishtathe ||

Even for a person who is treading in wise path, it is challenging
at times, because, the senses so strongly carry them astray.

One who controls the senses and fixes it on me, then alone
he is a man of unwavering intelligence.

When dealing with objects of sensual pleasures, a person attaches himself
to the object and its pleasures. From attachment desire arises, from desire
anger results.

Anger leads to loss of reasoning, and perplexed of memory. When memory
thus is puzzled spiritual intelligence is lost and one again is thrown into the world
of material desires.

But for the person who has conquered his senses and brought it under the control
becomes subjected to the mercy of the brahman and therefore attains ultimate freedom from
all material attachments.

When this state is attained, the miseries associated with desires ceases to exist,
in such a blissful condition his spiritual knowledge becomes grounded.

(Krishna says again and again signs of a realised man, using differnt words and combinations. He repeatedly says to fix the intellect upon the supreme. His repeated messages saying
same things reminds us of teachers repeatedly and patiently enlightening the little ones at kindergarten.

Such is the kindness of our spiritual guru, krishna.

Even then it becomes difficult for a practioner :) )

ஞானியானவனுக்கும் கூட தன்னிடம் கிளர்ந்தெழும் புலன்களை அடக்கிவைக்க மிகவும்
முயன்றாலும், சமயத்தி அவை அவனை பலாத்காரமாக இழுத்து சென்றுவிடும்.

அவற்றை அடக்கிக்கொண்டு நிலையாக இறை தியானத்தில், சிந்தனையில் மனம் ஒன்றுபடுத்தவேண்டும்.
எவனுடைய புலன்கள் அடக்கப்படுகின்றனவோ அவனே உறுதியான அறிவு படைத்தவனாகிறான்.

ஒருவன் உலகியல் சார்ந்த விஷயங்களில் ஈடுபடும் போது, சிந்திக்கும் போது, அவனுக்கு அதன்பாற்
பற்று ஏற்படுகின்றது. பற்றிலிருந்து ஆசையும், ஆசையின் காரணமாய் கோபமும் உண்டாகிறது.

கோபம் கொண்டாலோ மதிமயக்கம் தோன்றி நினைவாற்றல் தடுமாறுகிறது. நினைவாற்றல் குன்றிய நிலையில்
பகுத்தறியும் தன்மை குறைவதால் மீண்டும் அவனுக்கு புலன்களின் பாலும் உலகியல் நாட்டதிலும் அறிவு
தடுமாறி அழிவு நிலை ஏற்படுகின்றது.

தன்னடக்கம் உள்ள மனிதன் உலகியல் சார்ந்து ஈடுபடும் போதும் கூட புலனடக்கம் பெற்று விருப்புவெறுப்பற்றா
தன்மையில் அமைதி பெறுகிறான்.

அந்த அமைதி நிலையில் துன்பங்கள் நீங்கப்பெறுகின்றன. அமைதியான மனநிலையுடையவனின் அறிவுநிலை
உறுதிநிலையாகிவிடுகின்றது.

wrap07

3rd November 2008, 09:34 PM

:notworthy:
sp. nice explanation :D

Shakthiprabha.

18th December 2008, 03:46 PM

Thanks wrap.

Dear all,

Please forgive me for time lapse. I was busy with personal schedule henec, could not make it to hub.

Shakthiprabha.

18th December 2008, 03:50 PM

Chapter 2 - Verses 65 to 72

naasthi budhir ayukthasya na cha ayukthasya bhaavana |
na cha abavayathah: shaanthi ashaathasya kuthah sugam ||

indriyaanaam hi charthaam yan mano-anu-vidheeyathe
thadhasya harathi praknjaam vaayurnaavam ivaambhasi ||

thasmaadyasya mahabaaho nigruhithaani sarvasha: |
indriyaaN-indriyaarththebyas thasya prakya prathishtitha ||

ya nisha sarvabhoothanaam thasyaam jaakarathi samyamee |
yasyaam jakrathi bhoothani sa nisha pashyatho mune: ||

apooryamaNam achala prathishtam |
samudhram aapah: pravisshanthi yadhvath ||
thathvath kaamah yam pravishanthi sarve |
sa shanthi aapnothi na kaama-kaamee ||

vihaaya kaaman ya: sarvaan pumaan chrathi nispriha: |
nirmamo nir-ahankaara: sa shathim athigachchathi ||

iisha brahmii sthithih: paartha nainaam prapya vimuhyathi |
sthithva-asyam antha kaale api brahma-nirvaNam rchchathi ||

*** shubam***

Without having mind in control there wont be spiritual
consciousness. Without spiritual conscience, where is happiness and peace?!

Just like how a strong wind can change the course of a sailing boat, the same way
even if one of the senses receive attention from the mind, the focus is lost and
man's diligence is carried away.

Hence he whose attention is away from sense object is steady in intelligence

What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled; and the time
of awakening for all beings is night for the introspective sage.

That person, who is never troubled by constant desires which flows like nonstop rivers into the still ocean
(here reffered to a sage's still mind) he who remains calm like that still ocean, is peaceful. One who desires
sensual enjoyment cannot attain this peace.

One who has forgone all sensual pleasures, and is free from desires, who does not possess false ego
he is the person ready to achieve real peace.

IF this knowledge is gained or achieved such a man never falls back or gets lost again in the maze of
material wandering. Even at the hour of death, he is assured of unity with supreme being.

** End of chapter 2**

உறுதியற்றவனுக்கு ஆன்மஞானம் கிட்டுவதில்லை. ஆன்மஞானம் கிட்டாதவனுக்கு அமைதி ஏற்படுவதில்லை.
மன அமைதி இன்றி ஒருவன் எவ்விதம் மகிழ்ச்சியுற்றிருக்க முடியும்?

அலைகடலின் படகு காற்றின் சுழற்சியில் எவ்வாறு நிலைதடுமாறுகின்றதோ, அவ்வாறே புலனின்பங்களில்
மனதைச் செல்லுத்தும் ஒருவனும் வழி தடுமாறுகிறான்.

உலகியல் பொருளிலிருந்து தன்னை விலக்கி முற்றிலும் கட்டுப்படுத்திக்கொண்டவனே உறுதியான அறிவு படைத்தவன்
ஆகின்றான்.

எல்லா உயிர்களுக்கு இரவாக இருக்கும் போது புலனடக்கம் படைத்தவன் விழிக்கின்றான். எல்லா
உயிர்களும் விழித்திருக்கும் போது முனிவனுக்கு இரவுகாலம் ஆகின்றது.

பெரும்கடலுள் ஆறுகள் பாய்ந்தாலும் எவ்வாறு கடல் அமைதியாக இருக்கின்றதோ, அவ்வாறே ஆசைகள் அவன்
மனதில் நுழைந்தாலும் அவன் அமைதியுடன் இருக்கின்றான். ஆசைகள் நிறைந்த ஒருவனால் அவ்வாறு இருத்தல் கடினம்.

எவனொருவன் ஆசைகள் துறந்து ஏக்கங்கள் அகற்றி 'நான்' என்ற உணர்ச்சி இன்றி வாழ்கின்றானோ அவன் அமைதியுடன்
இருக்கின்றான்.

பார்த்தனே! இதுவே பிரம்மநிலை. இதை அடைந்தால் அவன் மீண்டும் ஆசைகளுடன் அலைவதில்லை.
வாழ்வின் இறுதிகாலத்தில் இந்நிலை அடந்தவனும் பிரம்மத்துடன் ஒன்றுபடுவான்.

** இரண்டாம் அத்தியாயமான சாங்கிய யோகம் முற்றிறு**

Shakthiprabha.

18th December 2008, 03:53 PM

That person, who is never troubled by constant desires which flows like nonstop rivers into the still ocean
(here reffered to a sage's still mind) he who remains calm like that still ocean, is peaceful. One who desires
sensual enjoyment cannot attain this peace.

பெரும்கடலுள் ஆறுகள் பாய்ந்தாலும் எவ்வாறு கடல் அமைதியாக இருக்கின்றதோ, அவ்வாறே ஆசைகள் அவன் மனதில் நுழைந்தாலும் அவன் அமைதியுடன் இருக்கின்றான். ஆசைகள் நிறைந்த ஒருவனால் அவ்வாறு இருத்தல் கடினம்.

I have a doubt. IF he is a gnaani or sage or one who has won over desires, HOW CAN DESIRE even ENTER him? he remaining calm is comes later. But why would desire even enter such a person's mind :?: :?

If it does, then he still has not reached the stage of sage or gnaani :?

Any wise men out there please explain :bow:

Shakthiprabha.

18th December 2008, 03:56 PM

எல்லா உயிர்களுக்கு இரவாக இருக்கும் போது புலனடக்கம் படைத்தவன் விழிக்கின்றான். எல்லா
உயிர்களும் விழித்திருக்கும் போது முனிவனுக்கு இரவுகாலம் ஆகின்றது.

What is he (krishna) trying to say here?

Is he trying to say that an aspirant is calm and more energetic when forces around are at rest? He gets peace when other chaotic waves are absent or asleep ?

This again went beyond me.

Anyone? to explain plz :oops:

or

does 'awakening' refer to a different context? i.e.. SOUL-AWAKENING? if yes, then saint cant ever be non-awakened as he is an awakened soul already :?

podalangai

20th December 2008, 12:10 AM

This is (with advance apologies :oops:) according to my very limited understanding of how these verses are traditionally understood:

எல்லா உயிர்களுக்கு இரவாக இருக்கும் போது புலனடக்கம் படைத்தவன் விழிக்கின்றான். எல்லா
உயிர்களும் விழித்திருக்கும் போது முனிவனுக்கு இரவுகாலம் ஆகின்றது.

What is he (krishna) trying to say here?

The reference here is to being principally awake to the self as opposed to the world of senses and desires.

"Buddhi" - knowledge and understanding of the self - is obscure like night - "iruL" - to ordinary beings. But a munivar or "samyamin" - one who has attained self-control - is fully awake in relation to the self, and has vision of the self. It is not dark, or obscure, or unillumined, to him.

Likewise, for the ordinary person, it is the world of the senses to which they are awake. It is the objects preceived by the senses - the objects desired by the senses - on which they are focused, and of which they are actively aware. A munivar is, however, most awake in the realm of the self. The realm of the senses is, to him, as distant from his senses as objects shrouded by night.

The next verse elaborates further on this:

That person, who is never troubled by constant desires which flows like nonstop rivers into the still ocean
(here reffered to a sage's still mind) he who remains calm like that still ocean, is peaceful. One who desires
sensual enjoyment cannot attain this peace.

பெரும்கடலுள் ஆறுகள் பாய்ந்தாலும் எவ்வாறு கடல் அமைதியாக இருக்கின்றதோ, அவ்வாறே ஆசைகள் அவன் மனதில் நுழைந்தாலும் அவன் அமைதியுடன் இருக்கின்றான். ஆசைகள் நிறைந்த ஒருவனால் அவ்வாறு இருத்தல் கடினம்.

I have a doubt. IF he is a gnaani or sage or one who has won over desires, HOW CAN DESIRE even ENTER him? he remaining calm is comes later. But why would desire even enter such a person's mind :?: :?

If it does, then he still has not reached the stage of sage or gnaani :?

"kama" in Sanskrit can mean both "desire" and "the object of desire". The import here is that objects of desire - the things we perceive through the senses, for example a sound we hear - affect a sage who has attained self-control differently from others. Take, for example, the sound of an anklet tinkling. To a normal worldly person, that sound will carry associations, which are necessarily connected with desire. It may remind him of - make him "long" for - a beautiful young woman he's seen, or his wife, or his child; or it may make him think of a dance performance he once saw, or it may call to mind Kannagi and her story and evoke an aesthetic response. And so on.

To a munivar, or "samyamin", it does none of these things. The sound enters into him, as it does into a normal person, but it produces a sensory impression, and nothing more. He hears the sound, his mind registers that a sound has been produced, but it evokes no reaction. He - and his thoughts - remain unchanged and unmoved.

Shakthiprabha.

20th December 2008, 08:25 AM

எல்லா உயிர்களுக்கு இரவாக இருக்கும் போது புலனடக்கம் படைத்தவன் விழிக்கின்றான். எல்லா
உயிர்களும் விழித்திருக்கும் போது முனிவனுக்கு இரவுகாலம் ஆகின்றது.

What is he (krishna) trying to say here?

The reference here is to being principally awake to the self as opposed to the world of senses and desires.

"Buddhi" - knowledge and understanding of the self - is obscure like night - "iruL" - to ordinary beings. But a munivar or "samyamin" - one who has attained self-control - is fully awake in relation to the self, and has vision of the self. It is not dark, or obscure, or unillumined, to him.

Likewise, for the ordinary person, it is the world of the senses to which they are awake. It is the objects preceived by the senses - the objects desired by the senses - on which they are focused, and of which they are actively aware. A munivar is, however, most awake in the realm of the self. The realm of the senses is, to him, as distant from his senses as objects shrouded by night.

amazing podalangai :bow: :bow:
I found it very convincing :bow: :bow:

பெரும்கடலுள் ஆறுகள் பாய்ந்தாலும் எவ்வாறு கடல் அமைதியாக இருக்கின்றதோ, அவ்வாறே ஆசைகள் அவன் மனதில் நுழைந்தாலும் அவன் அமைதியுடன் இருக்கின்றான். ஆசைகள் நிறைந்த ஒருவனால் அவ்வாறு இருத்தல் கடினம்.

"kama" in Sanskrit can mean both "desire" and "the object of desire". The import here is that objects of desire - the things we perceive through the senses, for example a sound we hear - affect a sage who has attained self-control differently from others. Take, for example, the sound of an anklet tinkling. To a normal worldly person, that sound will carry associations, which are necessarily connected with desire. It may remind him of - make him "long" for - a beautiful young woman he's seen, or his wife, or his child; or it may make him think of a dance performance he once saw, or it may call to mind Kannagi and her story and evoke an aesthetic response. And so on.

To a munivar, or "samyamin", it does none of these things. The sound enters into him, as it does into a normal person, but it produces a sensory impression, and nothing more. He hears the sound, his mind registers that a sound has been produced, but it evokes no reaction. He - and his thoughts - remain unchanged and unmoved.

Lot more intricate menaings and implied understandings than the seeming ones at the surface.

This alone is enough to show, gita has so much treasure which never cease to exist.

podalangai, :bow: thankyou. :bow:

anbu_kathir

22nd December 2008, 10:12 AM

Wonderful explanations, podalangai sir.

In my view, the Awakened one need not be a mere witness to the process of sensing. He may actually indulge in exactly the same activities of that of a normal human being, have exactly the same thoughts, say the same words, do the same things on the outset. But when such a person does so, he does it with total indulgence and total awareness, he is simultaneously the Great-Indulger and the Great-Witness.

If we assume the motion picture analogy, an awakened person can be said to play his character in the drama of life, just like the unawakened one. But he does so with very bit of his being, living in the moment in each scene. When such a person is happy, he is truly happy; when he is in pain, he truly is in pain. He is not locked in the past or the future, neither in a particular mindset about anything at all. Just like the river that flows on its way towards the ocean, so he flows through rocks and plains and relishes every bit of it.

Inspite of this total indulgence, the fact of his non-attachment and awareness makes him the ever-present Witness, and by this he knows all this is as merely a show, all characters and things in the show are impermanent. Hence besides playing a character with all his being, the awakened person can watch the movie of Life on the screen of his mind with Awareness.

In New-Age lingo, God is said to be 'Being + Becoming'. An awakened person is the same. He is rooted in his being with silent awareness, and from this silence comes a great dynamism, a magnificent Banyan tree grows from these roots that engages Life in every possible way, and as completely as it can. And by this engagement, by this 'Becoming', the hanging roots from the tree grow and reach the ground, further stabilizing the 'Being' part of the self, completing the cycle of Being and Becoming.

It is truly this Awareness that separates the normal human from an awakened one, not the negation of thoughts, desires, or any normal human activity. On the contrary, an awakened being may indulge in any of these activies, but he merely is not held by them because of his Awareness.

In fact, what better example of a person than Krishna himself? His whole life, his birth, death, and the events inbetween are all representative of this positive approach to life with awareness. Like a million sparklers that light up the dark sky, Krishna lights up the dull, dreary, life-negating spiritual world with his dance, song, and games. He engages Life on every possible level, the gross physical, the subtle mental, and the transcendental spiritual.

He does things that are unthinkable in terms of a the general notions of a 'spiritual person'. He maintains cows, steals, he plays the rasa-leelas, he uses trick and cunning to win the war, and what not. And he does all of them completely, without a sense of morality or guilt, he has no doubts whatsoever. Yet, he says to Rukmini , his own wife, ( http://www.gitaaonline.com/bonds-that-dont-bind/ ) that he is a Naishtika Brahmachaari and he actually means it :wink: . Therein lies the beauty of his philosophy, that which makes him the Purnaavtaar, one like none else, the reason why one need look no further than Krishna's life to understand the Gita.

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

22nd December 2008, 11:17 AM

anbukkathir,

Inspite of this total indulgence, the fact of his non-attachment and awareness makes him the ever-present Witness, and by this he knows all this is as merely a show, all characters and things in the show are impermanent.

I am not too convinced when we say

an awakened soul INDULGES but with awareness.

Indulging can be for mere show. If indulging is also without attachment, i.e. neither feeling the pain or joy (but FEIGNING pain or joy ) with absolute bhava of 'one-ness' then alone he is realised.

Else, if he indulges, experiences the sorrow and pleasure ( like a river flow i.e. only relishing the present moment), with awareness, then I suppose he is 'IN THE PROCESS of realising'

anbu_kathir

22nd December 2008, 11:43 AM

Indulging can be for mere show. If indulging is also without attachment, i.e. neither feeling the pain or joy (but FEIGNING pain or joy ) with absolute bhava of 'one-ness' then alone he is realised.

Else, if he indulges, experiences the sorrow and pleasure ( like a river flow i.e. only relishing the present moment), with awareness, then I suppose he is 'IN THE PROCESS of realising'

What exactly do you mean by 'feigning' pain or joy? If there is a feeling of 'feigning' when performing an action, then doesn't that mean it is not with the full sense of being that one does the action?

When the enlightened being acts, He is the actor, and the action. The person is the personification, the creator is the act of creation. In this situation, how can there be a separate self that 'feigns' the doer?

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

22nd December 2008, 11:55 AM

I didn't mean feign the doing or act.
I meant feign the EMOTIONS.

Actually 'feign' may not be right here. May be what I meant was "it may seem (to an outisder) that he does with emotional involvement" where as, actually, such a realised soul would only perform with ONE-NESS or awareness and involvement would not be present at all, not even MOMENTARY enjoyment (or otherwise) in his or her experience.

Note: I did NOT mean non-involvement in action with shradha. I meant non-involvement emotionally.

anbu_kathir

22nd December 2008, 12:01 PM

Shakthiprabha.

22nd December 2008, 12:04 PM

I aint able to come to conclusion. Let me leave it at that right now. I might find it convincing later :D or otherwise.

cheers. :)

anbu_kathir

22nd December 2008, 12:05 PM

:D Okies.

Shakthiprabha.

29th December 2008, 12:30 PM

Chapter 3 (karma yoga)
மூன்றாம் அத்தியாயம் (கர்ம யோகம்)

Chapter 3 - Verses 1 and 2

jyayasee cheth karmaNasthE matha bhudhir janaardhana|
thath kim karmaNi gorE maam niyojayasi keshavah||

vyamishreNEva vaakyena bhuddhim mohayaseeva me|
thath ekam vadha nischithya yena shreyohamaaapnuyaam||

Arjuna said: Hey Krishna, O Kesava, if u feel spirituality is
good than karma, then why do u make me involve in this
dreadful warfare

My intelligence fail me due to your contradictory talks. Therefore do tell me, and ascertain
wihch path is most beneficial

ஹே க்ருஷ்ணா! ஞானமே செயலை விட மேலனது என்று நீ கருதினாயானால்,
என்னை இந்த அதிபயங்கர போரில் ஏன் ஈடுபடச் செய்கிறாய்?

குழப்பம் நிறைந்த உன் பேச்சு என் அறிவையும் குழப்பிவிட்டது. ஆகையால் என் மேன்மைக்கு தகுந்த,
ஒரே ஒரு உறுதியான வழியை நீ உரைப்பாயாக.

Shakthiprabha.

2nd January 2009, 11:59 AM

Chapter 3 - Verses 3 to 7

loke asmin dhvi-vidha nishta pura prokthaa mayaanagha|
gnaana yogEna sangkyaanaam karmayogEna yoginaam||

na karmaNama na rampbhan naishkarmyam purushoshnuthE |
na cha sanyasanad eva siththim samathi gachchathi||

na hi kashchith kshaNaam api jathu thshtathiy akarmakruth|
kaaryathE hy-avasha: karma sarva: prakruthi jairkuNai: ||

karmEndriyaaNi samyamya ya asthe manasaa smran |
indthiyaarththaan vimoodaathma mithyacharah sa uchyathE||

yasthvaindriyaaNi manasa niyamyarabathE arjuna
karmendrhiyai karmayogam asaktha: sa: visishyathE ||

Krishna explains:

Hey sinless one! (here refers to the athman which is sinlesS) as mentioned,
there are two paths to attain perfection. One is for those who are inclined
by philosophical contemplations and conclusions and the other path is for
karma yogins, who reach the goal through performance of duty devotedly.

One can not achieve liberation by freedom from working or by giving up their
karma altogether. (here karma is to be taken as karma stamped for the specific individual
and not the regular (duty or work) which we term to assume)

Men are forced to act giving way to the temptations of material nature.
Hence renouncing action is not possible even for a single moment.

IF a person restrains his sensual desires by controlling his sense organs but
his mind keeps engaging in sensual activities then such a person is a pretender
who simply tries to escape his desire. (and not won over his desire)

Likewise, one who controls his sense organs thro his MIND, and indulges in
work or karma with devotion or detachment, that person is superior.

பாபங்கள் அற்றவனே, இவ்வுலகத்தில் இருவேறு பாதைகள் உள்ளன. ஆதமவிசாரத்தில்
ஈடுபட்டு அதன் மூலம் இறைத்தன்மை பெறுபவர் சிலர். கர்மங்களை கடமைகளை
கர்மமார்கத்தின் விதிகளுக்கேற்ப அனுசரித்து இறையை அடைபவர் சிலர்.

செயலில் ஈடுபடாமல் இருப்பதால் ஒருவன் செயலற்ற நிர்மலத்துவம் அடைந்துவிடுவதில்லை.
கர்மத்தை துறந்துவிடுவதால் மட்டுமே ஒருவன் பூர்ணத்துவம் பெற்றுவிடுவதில்லை.

எவராலும் ஒருவினாடிப் பொழுதேனும் சும்மாயிருத்தல் முடியாதது. இயற்கையின் ஊந்துதலால்,
ஒவ்வொருவரும் தம்மை அறியாமல் செயலாற்ற வேண்டி தள்ளப்படுகிறார்கள்.

செயல் புரியும் இந்தியங்களை கட்டுப்படித்தி விட்டதாய் நினைத்து புலன்வழி பொருள்களை மனதில்
நினைத்துக்கொண்டே இருப்பவன் வேடதாரி என்ப்படுவான்.

புலன்களை மனதால் அடக்கி, உடலால் கர்மயோகத்தின் பற்றற்று ஈடுபடும் ஒருவன் சிறந்தவன்.

Shakthiprabha.

2nd January 2009, 12:01 PM

Beautiful!! Simply Beautiful!

I prostrate Krishna, the world's greatest teacher

:bow:

Shakthiprabha.

2nd January 2009, 12:02 PM

The word karma and karma yoga should be understood in its right sense.

romio

3rd January 2009, 08:41 AM

Listen to Bhagavad Gita in 6 Different Languages -

http://www.gitamrta.org

and dont forget to read Vedic Teaching Section .

Shakthiprabha.

6th January 2009, 11:25 AM

thanks romio

Shakthiprabha.

6th January 2009, 12:04 PM

Chapter 3 - Verses 8 and 9

niyatham kurukarma thvam karma jyayah-akarmaNa: |
shareera-yaathraapi cha the na prasidhyedh-akarmaNa: ||

yagnaarththaath karamaNonyathra loko ayam karmabandhana: |
thadhartham karma kountheya muktha sanka: samaachara ||

Duty alloted to you is to be performed, because action is better thangiving up actions. By giving up action, he cannot take care of
basic needs of even physical-body maintenance.

This whole world is bound by actions. Every action would bound you to this material world, except actions done unattached, with a sense of sacrifice to Vishnu the lord. There fore do such actions, which would be done as sacrifice to the lord.

உனக்கென விதிக்கப்பட்ட கடமையைச் செய்வது செயலற்ற தன்மையை விட
மேலானது. செயலைத் துறந்து விடுவதால், உடலைப் பேணுவது போன்ற
காரியங்கள் கூட முடியாமல் போய்விடும்.

இவ்வுலகம் செயல்களால் மட்டுமே உருவாகி, கட்டுண்டுள்ளது.
பற்றற்ற யக்ஞ காரியங்களைத் தவிர மற்ற செயல்கள் உன்னை உலகில் கட்டுள்ளச் செய்யும்.
வேள்வி/யக்ஞ மனப்பான்மையோடு செயல்களை பற்றின்றி செய்வாயாக.

(வேள்வி/யக்ஞ என்பது இங்கு செயலின் பயனைத் துறத்தல் பொருட்டு என்றும் கொள்ளலாம்)

Shakthiprabha.

6th January 2009, 12:04 PM

Madhvacharya's commentry:

Here Lord Krishna states yagna-arthat meaning actions that are performed as an offering for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord without desiring reward are the only actions which are free from bondage.

Shakthiprabha.

21st January 2009, 11:20 AM

double post

Shakthiprabha.

21st January 2009, 11:22 AM

Chapter 3 - Verses 10 to 15

saha yagna: prajah: srushtva purovaasa prajaapathi: |
anEna prasavishyathvam-esha vo asthu-ishta kaamadhuk ||

Devaan bhaava-yatha-anena the theva bhaavayanthu va:
parasparam bhaavayantha: shreya: param-avaapsyatha||

ishtaan bhogaanhi vo deva dhasyanthE yagna bhaavithah: |
thair-dhathan apradhaayaibyo yo bhunkthe Sthena eva sa: ||

yagna sishtashinah: santho muchyanthE sarva kilbishai: |
bhunjathe the thva-agam papay yeh pachanthi aathma kaaraNaath ||

annaath bhavanthi bhoothani parjanyaath anna sambhavah: |
yagnjaath bhavathi parjanyo yagnah: karma samuthbhava: ||

karma brahmmothbavam vidhdhi brahmaakshara samoothbhavam |
thasmaath sarvagatham brahma nithyam yagnE prathishthitham ||

When creation began, brahma after creating creatures as a sacrifice
for the supreme being, said "May u perform sacrifices and achieve the goal.
May the sacrifice you do, gift you all that you desire"

The demi gods will be pleased with ur sacrifices, in turn would bless you, thus overall
prosperity and good will will prevail.

Demigods pleased with one's sacrifice blesses men and grants his wishes. He who rejoices
these gifts without offering them to the supreme being is a thief.

Those who eat food after offering for the sacrifice unto the lord, are not sinned. Sinned are the
others who eat food for personal enjoyment to gratify senses.

From food are created all living beings, and food is produced due to rain. Rains occur when yagna
and sacrifices are made to the lord. Yagna is prescribed as vedic duty.

Activities are advised in vedas, which is directly originated from the supreme godhead.
Supreme godhead inturn is established in performing sacrifices.

படைப்புப் கடவுள் ப்ரம்மா, முதலில் மனித உயிர்களைப் படைத்து விட்டு அவர்களிடம் இவ்வாறு சொன்னார் "வேள்விசெய்யுங்கள். வேள்வியினால், உங்கள் குலம் தழைக்கும். உங்களுக்கு வேண்டியவற்றை வழங்கும் காமதேனு வேள்வியாகும்"

வேள்வி செய்து நீங்கள் தேவர்களைப் பேணுங்கள். தேவர்களும் உங்களுக்கு உதவுவார்கள். இவ்வாறு ஒருவருக்கு ஒருவர் உதவிக்கொண்டு சிறப்புறுங்கள்

உங்கள் வேள்வியினால் உதவி பெறும் தேவர்கள் உங்களுக்கு பயன் அருள்வார்கள். விரும்பியவற்றை வழங்குவார்கள். இறைக்கு பிரதியாக ஒன்றும் வழங்காமல், அவற்றை அனுபவிப்பவன் உண்மையில் திருடனே ஆவான்.

வேள்வியில் மிகுந்துள்ள உணவை உண்ணும் மனிதன் பாவங்களில் இருந்து விடுபடுகிறான். தமக்காக மட்டும் உணவைச் சமைத்து உண்பவர்கள் பாவத்தை உண்கிறார்கள்.

உயிர்கள் உணவிலிருந்து உண்டாகின்றன. உணவு மழையிலிருந்து உண்டாகிறது. மழை வேள்வியிலிருந்து உண்டாகிறது. வேள்வி கர்மாவைச் செய்வதால் உண்டாகிறது.

செயல் பிரம்மாவிடமிருந்து தோன்றியது. பிரம்ம அழியாத பரப்பிரம்மதிடமிருந்து தோன்றியது. எங்கும் நிலைத்திருக்கும் பரப்பிரமம் வேள்வியிலேயே என்றும் நிலைத்திருக்கிறது.

Shakthiprabha.

29th January 2009, 11:55 AM

Chapter 3 - Verses 16 to 19

evam pravarthitham chakram na anuvarththayatheeha yah: |
aghaayur indriyaaraamo moham paartha sa jiivathi ||

yasthvathma rathir eva Syadaathma thrupthas cha manavah: |
aathmanyeva cha santhusta thasya kaaryam na vidhyathE ||

naiva thasya kruthenaarththo naakruthenaha kashchana |
na chasya sarva bhootheshu kashchith arththavyapasraya: ||

thasmaad asaktha sathatham kaaryam karma samaachara: |
asaktho-hy acharan karma paramaapnothi purushaha ||

know arjuna, that, a man who does not go by this vedic prescriptions,
leads a sinful life, by wasiting precious life for sensual gratification.

Such a person, who is happy with the self, gets illuminated in self, finds bliss in self, is fully
sated and duties do not bind him.

Self realised being, has no duties, no reason to perform work, neither he gets credited
for performing actions nor discredit on his non performance of actions. He is independant of other
living beings.

Hence, perform actions without getting attached to the action or the reward. Perform
action as a duty, then, one attains the supreme goal.

அர்ஜுனா! இந்த வேத வாழ்வை பின்பற்றாது எவன் ஒருவன் புலனின்பத்தில் துய்க்கிறானோ
அவன் வாழ்கையை வீணடித்தவன் ஆகிறான்.

ஆன்மாவில் இன்புற்று, அதில் துய்த்து, அதில் லயித்து இருபவனுக்கு தனியே செயல் என்று
தேவை இல்லை.

அவனுக்கு எதைச் செய்தாலும் செய்யவிட்டாலும், பாதிக்கப்படுவதில்லை. அவன் எந்த காரியத்திற்கு
எவரையும் அண்டி நிற்பதும் இல்லை

நீ அதனால் தவறாது செய்யவேண்டியதை, பற்றற்று, பலனை நினையாமல் செய்துக்கொண்டிரு.
அப்படிச் செய்பவன் பரம்பொருளை அடைகிறான்.

Shakthiprabha.

29th January 2009, 12:00 PM

On similar notes from

Madvacharya

For a person who has attained self-realisation and moksa or liberation and is in the state of samadhi meditating blissfully on the soul within. Such a person is considered by Vedic authorities to be doing a very great thing similar to performing a great action like saving the world from destruction.

______

By being in self, being blissful, is initself purifying the energy around such beings. Hence their mere prescence would suffice to harmonize the surroundings.

Shakthiprabha.

16th February 2009, 11:42 AM

Chapter 3 - Verses 20 to 24

karmaNa eva hi samsithim aasthithaa janakathaya:
lokha sankraham evapi sampashyan karmathum arhasi ||

yadhyadh acharathi shrEshta thadh thadh devEtharO janah:
Sa yath pramaaNam kuruthE lokaS thadh anuvarththE ||

na mE paarththa aSthi karththavyam thirishu lokeshu kinchana
na anavaptham avapthavyam varththE eva cha karmaNi ||

yathi hy-aham na vartheyam jaathu karmaNi athandritha:
mam avartham anuvarthanthe manushyah: partha sarvasha: ||

uthseetheyur ime loka na kuryaam karma chedh aham
sankaraSya cha karththasyam upahanyam imah: prajah: ||

Perfection was attained by janaka and such kings who followed the path of karma. (by following karma yoga or prescribled duities) Hence for the welfare of the benefitting the world, you should perform your karma.

Great men are followed as leaders by common men. Hence whatever action of path is performed by great men, others follow his footsteps. By performing his acts whatever rules or discpline he sets, the world continue to practice

Neither in this world or in all 3 worlds or planetary places do I have any work or karma to perform. I do not have anything to obtain or left unobtained, even then, hey arjuna, I am engaged in karma and do my prescribed duty

Because, IF I stop engaging myself in duties, oh partha, all men would follow me.

If I stop following prescribed duty and enter follow non-performance then it would result in impure or non-virtuous living beings and there by would ruin the very existence eventually.

ஜனகரும் அவரையொத்த ஏனைய அரசர்களும் செயல்களை செய்து முடிப்பதன் மூலம் முழுமை பெற்றனர். உலக மக்களின் நன்மையைக் கருதியாவது நீயும் செயல்புரியவேண்டும்.

சான்றோர்களும் (தலைவன் என்றும் கொள்ளலாம்) எதைச் செய்தாலும் அதைத் தான் மற்றவர்களும் செய்வார்கள். அவன் எதை அளவுகோலாக நிலைநாட்டுகிறானோ அதையே சாமான்ய மக்களும் பின்பற்றுகின்றனர்.

மூன்று உலகங்களிலும் நான் செய்ய வேண்டிய பணி என்று எதுவுமில்லை. எனக்கு அடைய வேண்டிய பொருளோ அல்லது அடைய முடியாத பொருள் என்றோ எதுவும் இல்லை. இருப்பினும் நான் செயல் புரிந்து கொண்டே இருக்கிறேன்.

நான் செயல்படாவிட்டால் மக்களும் என்னைப் பின்பற்றி சும்மா இருந்துவிடுவார்கள்.

நான் செயல்புரியாவிட்டால் இந்த உலகங்கள் அனைத்தும் அழிவு நிலைக்கு இட்டுச்செல்லப்படும். எங்கும் இழி-பிறப்புகள் அதிகரித்து இறுதியில் அனைத்து இயக்கங்களும் அழிவின் பாதைக்கு இட்டுச்செல்லப்படும்.

anbu_kathir

16th February 2009, 12:15 PM

I heard of this "Anu Gita" in the Mahabharata of late. Here's an excerpt of the opening lines of the Anu Gita from http://www.astrojyoti.com/anugita.htm . Apart from the wisdom, there is one surprising (to me at least) fact ( which I bolded)
----------------
The lesser known Anu-Gita is a part of the Ashwamedha Parva in the magnum opus Mahabharata and is a refresher and an add on to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. A translation of the first few lines follows.
----------

What conversation, O twice-born one I took place between the high-souled Kesava and Arjuna, while they dwelt in that palace after slaying their enemies?
---
Vaisampayana said:
The son of Prithaa, after becoming possessed of his kingdom (in an) undisturbed (state), enjoyed himself in the company of Krishna, full of delight in that heavenly palace. And once, O king! they happened to go, surrounded by their people, and rejoicing, to a certain portion of the palace which resembled heaven.

Then Arjuna, the son of Paandu, having surveyed with delight that lovely palace, in the company of Krishna, spoke these words: O you of mighty arms! O you whose mother is Devaki! when the battle was about to commence, I became aware of your greatness, and that divine form of yours.

But that, O Kesava! which through affection (for me) you explained before, has all disappeared, O tiger-like man! from my degenerate mind. Again and again, however, I feel a curiosity about those topics. But (now), O Maadhava! you will be going at no distant date to Dvaarakaa
---
Vaisampaayana said
Thus addressed, that best of speakers, Krishna, possessed of great glory, replied in these words after embracing Arjuna.
-----
Vâsudeva said:

From me, O son of Prithaa! you heard a mystery, and learnt about the eternal (principle), about piety in (its true) form, and about all the everlasting worlds. It is excessively disagreeable to me, that you should not have grasped it through want of intelligence.

And the recollection (of it) now again is not possible (to me). Really, O son of Paandu! you are devoid of faith and of a bad intellect. And, O Dhananjaya! it is not possible for me to repeat in full (what I said before).

For that doctrine was perfectly adequate for understanding the seat, of the Brahman. It is not possible for me to state it again in full in that way. For then accompanied by my mystic power, I declared to you the Supreme Brahman. But I shall relate an ancient story upon that subject, so that adhering to this knowledge, you may attain the highest goal.

O best of the supporters of piety! listen to all that I say. (Once), O restrainer of foes! there came from the heavenly world and the world of Brahman, a Braahmana difficult to withstand, and he was (duly) honored by us. (Now) listen, without entertaining any misgivings, O chief of the descendants of Bharata! O son of Prithaa! to what he said on being interrogated by us according to heavenly rules.

___________________

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

16th February 2009, 12:38 PM

:bow: I never knew there existed a refresher course :oops:

Human mind is alas! a suprising phenonmenon which goes back to imperfect cravings and desires, forgets (or is not clear) all its lessons, then finds pleasure in going thro the same lesson, again n again n agian :bow:

Thanks a lot for the link anbukkathir.

Shakthiprabha.

16th February 2009, 12:45 PM

Vâsudeva said:

From me, O son of Prithaa! you heard a mystery, and learnt about the eternal (principle), about piety in (its true) form, and about all the everlasting worlds. It is excessively disagreeable to me, that you should not have grasped it through want of intelligence.

And the recollection (of it) now again is not possible (to me). Really, O son of Paandu! you are devoid of faith and of a bad intellect. And, O Dhananjaya! it is not possible for me to repeat in full (what I said before).

For that doctrine was perfectly adequate for understanding the seat, of the Brahman. It is not possible for me to state it again in full in that way.

:oops: :oops: :oops: :bow: :bow:

anbu_kathir

17th February 2009, 09:31 AM

Shakthiprabha.

17th February 2009, 09:53 AM

naam ellaam irundhaal enna solluvaanO Kannan.. :D.. ninaichaale bayamma irukku. .. aana avaluvu urimaiyOdu thittinaale pOdhumE :D...

Love and Light.

:oops: yeah....

amaam nammaloda pesinaalE pothum ... :D
Vera enna venum!

Shakthiprabha.

19th February 2009, 01:00 PM

Chapter 3 - Verses 25 to 30

sakthaah: karmaNy avithvaamso yatha kurvanthi bharatha
kuryadh vithvaam-thatha asaktha chikeersurloka sankraham ||

na bhuddhi bedham janayeth agnyaanam karma sanginaam
joshayeth sarva karmaani vithvaan yukthah: samaacharan ||

prakruthe: kriyamaaNaani kuNai: karmaaNi sarvasha:
ahankaara vimoodaathma kartha aham ithi manyathE ||

thathvavithu maha bhaho guNa-karma vipakayo:
guNa: guNeshu varththanthe ithimathva na sajjathE ||

prakrutherguNa sammuudah: sajjanthe guNakarmasu
than akruthsnavitho mandhaan kruthsnavin na visaalayeth ||

mayisarvaaNi karmaaNi sanyasya athyathma chethasa
niraasheer nirmamo bhoothva yudhyasva vigathajvara: ||

Just as how an ignorant person does his duties with attachment, the gnaanis also act, but without attachment, to benefit the world.

Wise men should continue to act with the sense of detachment, and should not interrupt the mind of ignorant who are attached to their action.

Whilst all activities are carried out in accordance with the law of nature, the ignorant man under its influence, think that he is the doer

Such person who knows is wise, would not get into the clutches of senses and its gratification. He knows it is the work of senses and its action and would remain detached without expecting the fruits of action.

Totally underthe spell of senses and their activies, ignorant men would perform with attachment. Wise men, should however not disrupt or interfere in his actions though it is performed, with absense of ultimate knowledge.

Hence hey arjuna! surrender all your action and its fruits towards me, being devoted to me alone, without desire
for the fruit, free yourself from ego of self and fight.

அர்ஜூனா! ஞானமற்ற அவிவேகிகள், செயலின் மீதுள்ள பற்றினால் செயல்படுகிறார்கள். விவேகிளான ஞானிகளோ
உலக நன்மை கருது செயல்படுகிறார்கள்.

பற்றுடன் செயல்படும் அவிவேகிகளுக்கு ஞானி மனக்குழப்பத்தை கலக்கத்தை உண்டாக்கக்கூடாது. அவன் யோகத்தின்
அடிப்படையில் தொடர்ந்து செயல்பட வேண்டும்.

இயற்கையின் குணங்களாலும் இந்தியங்களாலும் கர்மங்கள் நடைபெறுகின்றன. அஹங்காரத்தால்
மயக்க நிலையில் மனிதனோ "நான் செய்கிறேன்" என்று நினைக்கிறான்.

குணங்களின் இயல்பை உணர்ந்த ஞானிக்கு குணங்கள் புலன் வழியே செயல்படுகின்றன என்று தெரிந்தவனுக்கு
பற்று உண்டாவதில்லை.

இயற்கையின் குணங்களால் மயக்கம் அடைந்தவர்களுக்கு செயல்களில் பற்று உண்டாகிறது.
ஞான நிலையில் உள்ள ஒருவன், அவிவேகிகளுக்கும், அரைகுறை ஞானமடைந்தவர்களுக்கும் மனக்கலக்கம்
அடையும்படி செய்யக்கூடாது.

செயல்கள் அனைத்தையும் எனக்கே அர்ப்பணித்துவிடு. மனத்தை ஆன்மாவில் இருத்தி, ஆசையும் ஆஹங்காரமும் அற்று
போர் புரிவாயாக.

Shakthiprabha.

2nd March 2009, 04:04 PM

Chapter 3 - Verses 31 to 35

ye me mathamidham nithyam anuthishtanthi manavaah:
Shraththaavantho anasooyantho muchyanthe thepi karmapi:

ye thuvetham abyasooyantho na anuthishtanthi mE matham
sarvajnaana vimoodaan thanviththi nashtaan achethasa:

sadhrusham cheshtathe svasya prakruther-janavanapi
prakruthim yaanthi bhoothani nigrah: kim karishyathi

indriyasyen indhriyaSyaarththe raagadhveshou vyavasthithou
thayorna vashama agachcheth thou hy asya paripanthinou

shreyaan svadharmo vigunah: para dharmaath svanushtithaath
svadharmE nidhanam shreya: paradharmo bhayavaha:

All who follow these laws prescribed by me, without prejudice, shall be free from the ties of action and its reactions.

However, those men, who out of desire, do not practice my teachings, are to be ruined, as they routed away from the purpose of human existence and spiritual consciousness.

Every living being, including the man of knowledge acts according to their own nature. What can unnatural constraint accomplish?

Attraction and dislike for sense objects are experienced by living beings , but one should take efforts and not fall for the control of the senses and its objects, they obstruct the path towards
wisdom.

It is better to perfom one's own prescribed duty, if even performed with fault. It is better than performing other's duties. Even if one perishes in performing of one's own duty, it is still superior than
engaging in another's duty which is dangerous.

என்னுடைய கொள்கையை யார் நம்பிக்கையுடன் பின்பற்றுகிறாரோ, அவர்கள் செயல் அதன் பலன் முதலிய வினைகளிலிருந்து விடுதலை பெறுகிறான்.

யாரெல்லாம் எனது கொள்கையை இகழ்ந்து பின்பற்றுவதில்லையோ அவர்கள் இலக்கிலிருந்து விலகி, பாதை மாறி அழிந்து போவார்கள்.

எல்லா உயிர்களும் தம் இயல்பைப் போலவே நடந்துகொள்கின்றன. ஞானம் அடைந்தவனும் அவ்வாறே அவன் இயல்புக்கு ஏற்றாற் போல் நடந்து கொள்கிறான். இயல்பை தடை செய்து ஆகப்போவது ஒன்றும் இல்லை.

புலன்களைச் சார்ந்த பொருள் மீது ஈர்ப்பும் வெறுப்பும் பிறக்கின்றது. எனினும் அவற்றை வென்று அதனிடம் வசப்படாமல் இருப்பது நல்லது. அவை இலக்கை அடைவதற்கு எதிரிகள்

சிறப்பாய் செய்யப்பட்ட பிற தர்மத்தை விட ஸ்வதர்மம் சிறந்தது. ஸ்வதர்மத்தில் ஈடுபட நேரும் போது
மரணமே நேர்ந்தாலும் பிற தர்மத்தை விட ஸ்வதர்மம் சிறந்தது. பிற தர்மம் ஊறு விளைவிக்க வல்லது.

Shakthiprabha.

2nd March 2009, 04:08 PM

anbu_kathir

2nd March 2009, 06:27 PM

//சிறப்பாய் செய்யப்பட்ட பிற தர்மத்தை விட ஸ்வதர்மம் சிறந்தது. ஸ்வதர்மத்தில் ஈடுபட நேரும் போது
மரணமே நேர்ந்தாலும் பிற தர்மத்தை விட ஸ்வதர்மம் சிறந்தது. பிற தர்மம் ஊறு விளைவிக்க வல்லது. //

What exactly is one's dharma here?

How to determine what is one's dharma? is it based on a person's nature or birth or does it mean those duties which are thrusted upon?

Any thoughts or quotes are welcome.

Again, this is what I have come to understand of the word "Dharma". As every human being is a collection of three parts, body, mind and soul .. one can classify 'Saamanya Dharma' .. Common duties.. of every single human irrespective of his birth, colour or whatever, into three parts ::

Saamanya Dharma for body:: Eating well (balanced food as per body condition), sleeping well and and sufficient physical exercise (again as per physical condition)

Saamanya Dharma for mind: Mental exercises - concentration exercises

Saamanya Dharma for the Soul:: Some form of selfless service, and meditation on the thought " I should be guided towards whatever is best for me"

This is a unified system for all human beings, and for spiritual ( wholesome ) progress, all of them must be done together. In fact, this kind of subdivision is really not so precise, because each of the above tasks affects the other two of the triad. Practising one of these will increase one's potential in one of the triads more than the other two, but spirituality by definition means balance.

A regular practice of the three steps above will make one realize his 'Swa-Dharma'.. thereby answering the questions " Who am I?" and "Why am I here?". The benefits of such a practice can be said to materialize in a matter of 6 months or so.. but the actual time depends on the spiritual state of the individual. And obviously nothing will work if there is no actual intent or passion. One cannot expect spiritual progress by doing things mechanically. As Swami Vivekananda says, reflecting an amazing sense of clarity,

"Purity, patience, and perseverance are the three essentials to success and, above all, love. "

There are people who can afford to keep off such a practice, they are the ones who are already on their path of Swadharma. By punya, or by practice, they have set themselves on their Swadharma. A person who is practising his/her Swadharma is already doing spiritual practice, and such a person probably needs Saamanya Dharma practices less and less. Ultimately when one is enlightened, no action needs to be done. Pure Being is sufficient and itself is the Highest spiritual practice, Tapas that one could ever hope to practise.

As for the duties prescribed to Brahmans, Ksatriyas, Vaisyas and Sudras .. I have absolutely no clue about how much of it applies today, although the realized souls that I have come across in my life seem to insist on doing regular Sandhyavandana (sun-being-worship) and then learning Veda manthras as per the Dharma of the Veda for Brahmans.

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

2nd March 2009, 06:32 PM

As for the duties prescribed to Brahmans, Ksatriyas, Vaisyas and Sudras .. I have absolutely no clue about how much of it applies today

Exactly. That is why I asked.

Saamanya Dharma for body:: Eating well (balanced food as per body condition), sleeping well and and sufficient physical exercise (again as per physical condition)

Saamanya Dharma for mind: Mental exercises - concentration exercises

Saamanya Dharma for the Soul:: Some form of selfless service, and meditation on the thought " I should be guided towards whatever is best for me"

This is a unified system for all human beings, and for spiritual ( wholesome ) progress, all of them must be done together. In fact, this kind of subdivision is really not so precise, because each of the above tasks affects the other two of the triad. Practising one of these will increase one's potential in one of the triads more than the other two, but spirituality by definition means balance.

A regular practice of the three steps above will make one realize his 'Swa-Dharma'.. thereby answering the questions " Who am I?" and "Why am I here?". The benefits of such a practice can be said to materialize in a matter of 6 months or so.. but the actual time depends on the spiritual state of the individual. And obviously nothing will work if there is no actual intent or passion. One cannot expect spiritual progress by doing things mechanically. As Swami Vivekananda says, reflecting an amazing sense of clarity,

"Purity, patience, and perseverance are the three essentials to success and, above all, love. "

There are people who can afford to keep off such a practice, they are the ones who are already on their path of Swadharma. By punya, or by practice, they have set themselves on their Swadharma. A person who is practising his/her Swadharma is already doing spiritual practice, and such a person probably needs Saamanya Dharma practices less and less. Ultimately when one is enlightened, no action needs to be done. Pure Being is sufficient and itself is the Highest spiritual practice, Tapas that one could ever hope to practise.

although the realized souls that I have come across in my life seem to insist on doing regular Sandhyavandana (sun-being-worship) and then learning Veda manthras as per the Dharma of the Veda for Brahmans.

Love and Light.

Convincing post. :ty:

wrap07

3rd March 2009, 02:06 PM

SP :clap:
and Anbu, exquisite post :clap:

Shakthiprabha.

14th March 2009, 12:48 AM

Chapter 3 - Verses 26 to 43

adha kena prayuktho ayam paapam charathi purushah:
ani-channapi vaarshNeya bala-adhi iva niyojitah:

kaama-esha krodha esha rajoguna samudhbava:
mahashano mahapaapma viththyenam iha vairiNam

dhoomena-avriyathe evahniryatha dharsho malena cha
yatholbena-avrutho garpas-thathaa thenedham avrutham

aavrutham gnanamethena gnanino nithyavairiNa
kamaroopeNa kauntheya dhushpooreNa analena cha

indriyaaNi mano budhir-asyathishtaanam uchyathE
ethair vimohayathi esha gnaanam avruthya dehinam

thasmaath thvam inthiyaaNi athou niyamya bharatharshabha
paapmaanam prajahi hyeenam gnaana vigyaana naashanam

indriyaaNi paraaNyahoor-indriyyebyah param manah
manasasthu paraa bhudhiryo budhdhE parathasthu sa:

evam budhdhE param budhdhva samsthabhya athmaanam athmanaa
jahi sathrum mahaabaaho kaamaroopam dhuraasadham

Arjuna asks "What is the primary reason for a person to act sinfully even without will, or what is it that urges one to act sinfully as if drawn by force ?

Lord says: For everything the drive is lust. It is lust which arises out of passion, and changes itself into anger or wrath. Understand that lust is the most sinful and dangerous enemy in this world which never easily is sated.

Just like how fire is covered by smole, mirror is covered by dust, embryo is covered by womb, same way, all living beings are covered by lust.

Even a wise man's knowledge is enveloped by this enemy lust, which burns like fire and never ceases.

Five senses, mind and intelligence are the places where lust resides, this lust which shadows the real wisdom of all entities.

Hence it becomes essential to control the senses and destroy this lust which is the destroyer of wisdom, realisation and knowledge.

Senses are superior (to matter or body), more than senses-mind is superior, higher is intelligence than the mind, and and still superior to the intelligence is the soul or indivudual consciousness.

Now knowing that the consciousness is loftier than the senses, mind or intelligence, wise men should control the senses and steady the mind through self realization and defeat the powerful enemy 'lust'.

அர்ஜுனன் கேள்வி: ஒருவனுக்கு விருப்பம் இல்லாது இருப்பினும், அவன் வலுக்கட்டாயமாக பாபத்தை செய்யத் தூண்டுவது எது?

பகவானின் பதில்: அவ்வாறு செய்யத்தூண்டுவது ஆசை. ஆசையும் அதனைச் சார்ந்த கோபமும் ரஜோகுணத்தின் தோன்றல்கள். ஆசையே உன் முதல் எதிரி என்பதை உணர்ந்துகொள். ஆசை அனைத்தையும் விழுங்கிவிடும் வல்லமை உடையது.

நெருப்பு புகையாலும், கண்ணாடி தூசாலும் கருவானது எவ்வாறு கருப்பையாலும் மூடப்பட்டிருக்கிறதோ அவ்வாறே உயரிய ஞானமானது ஆசையால் மூடப்பட்டிருக்கிறது.

அர்ஜூனா ஆசைத் தீ தணிக்க முடியாதது, தீர்க்கமுடியாதது. ஆசையின் பகை மூட்டம் ஞானியின் அறிவைக்கூட மூடிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறது.

புலன்கள், மனம் புத்தி ஆகியவை ஆசையின் இருப்பிடங்கள். இதன் வழியே அது செயல்பட்டு ஞானத்தை மூடி மறைக்கிறது.

ஆகையால், புலன்களைக் கட்டுள் அடக்கி, அறிவை அழிக்கின்ற பாபத்தின் உருவமாகிய ஆசையை வீழ்த்திவிடு.

புலன்கள் (உடலை விட) மேலானவை. அவற்றை விட மனம் மேலானது. மனத்தை தாண்டி மிளிர்கிறது புத்தி. புத்தியை விட உயர்ந்து நிற்கிறது ஆன்மா.

புத்தியை விட உயர்ந்த ஆன்மாவை உணர்ந்து, மனத்தித்தை கட்டுப்படுத்தி, புலன்களை அடக்கி, அதி பயங்கர பகைவனான ஆசையை வெல்வாய்.

*********************

end of karma yoga chapter -3

மூன்றாம் அத்தியாயமாகிய கர்ம யோகம் முற்றிற்று.

**********************************************

Shakthiprabha.

14th March 2009, 12:56 AM

அர்ஜூனா ஆசைத் தீ தணிக்க முடியாதது, தீர்க்கமுடியாதது. ஆசையின் பகை மூட்டம் ஞானியின் அறிவைக்கூட மூடிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறது.

on a lighter note, I remember nagesh's ranting "ஆசை ஆசை! ஆயிரம் பொன்னை வெச்சுகிட்டு என்னடா பண்ணுவ! எத்தனை நாளைக்கு தாங்கும்!"

Alas not just normal men, not just aspirants, even wise men or gnaanis sometimes fall prey for lust/desire. (famous vishwamitra-menaka is just a single sample amongst many)

Desire can crop up and take any form including normal rightful desires of daily life, to illegal ones. Whether legal or illegal, desire and its effect I suppose would be the same.

Desire for a parent to see their kid shining is a socially accepted one.

Desire for sensual pleasures are not looked well or respected in our society. But the end result of lust clouding the self -realisation is THE SAME (or varies just as much as each individual's intensity of lust)

However, if quenching of one's desire, deprives another, then third law of motion comes into picture. Every action would have equal opposite reaction, hence, one who sows has to reap.

Shakthiprabha.

17th March 2009, 12:00 PM

Chapter 4: Gnaana yoga / (transcendental knowledge) Verses 1 to 5

imam vivasvathE yogam prokthavaan aham avyyayam |
vivasvaan manavE praaha manur ikshvakavE-abraveeth ||

evam parampara praptham imam rajarshayo vidhu: |
sa kaaleneha mahathaa yogonashta: paranthapah ||

sa evaayam maya thEdhya yoga: prokthah: puraathanah: |
bhaakta-si me saka chethi rahasyam hy-ethadh uththamam ||

aparam bhavatho janma param janma vivasvatha: |
katham ethadh vijaaniiyaam thvam-aadhou prokthavaan ithi ||

bhahooni me vyatheethani janmaani cha thava charjuna |
thany aham vedha sarvaaNi na thvam vEththa paranthapa ||

Krishna continues on:

I instructed these yogas and knowledge of uniting with the brahman to the vivasvaan(the sun god), who instructed it to manu, who inturn passed on the knowledge to ikshvaaku.

This lofty knowledge was received successively by saintly-kings (rajarishi). In course of time, for a long duration, this knowledge seem to have dissapeared.

This holy transcendental knowledge and very ancient vedhas or sciece of unity with brahman is told by you to me, becuase you are my devotee and my friend.

Arjuna enquired: The sun god vivasvaan was born much prior to you, then how oh krishna am I to understand that you instructed this knowledge into him?

Lord says: You and I have taken many many births until know. You cannot remember all your prior births, but oh arjuna, I can.

அழிவற்ற இந்த யோகத்தை நான் விவஸ்வானுக்கு உபதேசித்தேன். விவஸ்வான் மனுவிற்கும் மனு இக்ஷ்வாகுவிற்கும் உபதேசித்தார்கள்.

வழிவழியாய் வந்த இந்த யோகத்தை ராஜரிஷிகள் அறிந்திருந்தனர். நீண்ட இடைப்பட்ட காலத்தில், இது பூவுலகை விட்டு மறைந்துவிட்டிருந்தது.

மிக உயர்ந்த ரகசியமான வேதத்தை, யோகத்தை நான் உன்னிடம் சொல்கிறேன், ஏனெனில், நீ என் பக்தன். என் தோழன்.

அர்ஜுனனுக்கு சந்தேகம்: "உன் பிறப்பு பின்னால் ஏற்பட்டது, விவஸ்வான் (விவஸ்வான் என்றால் சூரியன்) உனக்கு முன் பிறந்தோன். நீ எப்படி விவஸ்வானுக்கு யோகத்தை உபதேசித்தாய்? எனக்குப் புரியவில்லை."

பகவான் கூறியது: "அர்ஜுனா, நீயும் நானும் இதுகாறும் பலப்பல பிறவிகள் எடுத்திருக்கிறோம். அப்பிறவிகளைப் பற்றிய அறிவு உனக்கு இல்லை. எனக்கு அப்பிறவிகளை (தன்னுடைய) பற்றி நன்கு தெரியும்.

Shakthiprabha.

12th May 2009, 01:49 PM

Chapter 4: Gnaana yoga / (transcendental knowledge) Verses 6 to 10

ajo-bhi san avyayaya-athmaa bhoothaanaam iishvararopi san
prakruthim svam athishtaaya sambhavaami athma-maayayaa

yatha yathahi tharmasya glaanir bhavathi bharatha
abyuththaanam atharmasya thadhaathmaanam srajaamyaham

parithraaNaaya sadhoonam vinaashaya cha dushkrutham
dharma samsthaapanaarthaaya sambhavami yuge yuge

janma karma cha me thivyam evam yo-veththi thathvatha:
thyakthvaa theham punarjanma naithi maam ethi so arjuna

vitha raaga bhaya krothaa manmaya maam upaasrithaa:
bhahavo gnaana thapasa bhoothaa mathbhaavam agatha:

I am unborn and abstract not perishable and immortal. I am the master or lord or all mortal beings, even then, I appear on earth with superior form. (as avtar one my assume).

(when does he appear? next paragraph explains the same)

hey bharatha! I appear, whenever there is decline in righteousness, whenever morality goes down...when, there is adharma or unrighteousness prevailing everywhere, then, I descend on earth.

I descend to protect the good and righteous ones, the innocents, devotees, bhakthas, and destroy the vicious ones. I manifest every yuga (yuga = apprx 1 million year ) on earth to re-establish the righteousness.

He who understands this nature of mine, and my descendance and activities, attain eternity and does not take birth again in material world.

Thus, many people who become absored in me, take refuge in me, are freed from attachments, anger, fear, are enlightened by my knowledge and attained my abode.

நான் பிறப்பற்றவன், அழிவற்றவன், எல்லா உயிர்களுக்கும் அதிபதி. இறைவன். எனினும் நான் என் இயறிகை நிலையை இயல்பை விட்டு அவதாரம்

செய்கிறேன்.

எவ்வப்பொழுதெல்லாம் தர்மம் குறைந்து அதர்மம் தலைதூக்குகிறதோ அவ்வப்பொழுதெல்லாம் நான் என்னை பிறப்பித்துக்கொள்கிறேன்.

நல்லோர்களைக் காப்பதற்கும் தீயோர்களை ஒடுக்குவதற்கும் தர்மத்தை செழிப்புற செய்வதற்கும் நான் யுகங்கள் தோறும் தோன்றுவேன்.

என்னுடைய தெய்வீக செயல்களை பிறப்புக்களை அறிந்தவன் இறந்த பின் மீண்டும் இப்பூவுலகில் பிறப்பதில்லை. அவன் அழியா நிலை எய்தி

என்னை அடைகிறான்.

என்னையே பற்றுடன் நினைந்தவர்கள் என்னையே ஷரணமடைந்தவர்கள் பயம், கோபம் முதலியவைகள் களையப்பட்டு, அழியா அறிவு நிலையில்

என்னை உணர்ந்து என்னுடன் ஒன்றுபடுகின்றனர்.

wrap07

12th May 2009, 03:54 PM

:D :notworthy: :notworthy:

Shakthiprabha.

12th May 2009, 10:42 PM

nandri wrap. I am glad this thread is still read :oops:

anbu_kathir

13th May 2009, 06:18 AM

I manifest every yuga (yuga = apprx 1 million year ) on earth to re-establish the righteousness.

I am glad this thread is still being updated by you :D :D. Btw, the time period of 1 yuga depends on the Yuga itself (Sat, treta, dwaapara or Kali). I think this is the split ..

Kali - 432,000 years (human).
Dwaapara - 2x432000
Treta - 3x432000
Sat - 4x432000
-------------
Total 4 yugas = 1 Mahayuga = 4,320,000 years

71 Mahayugas = 1 Manvantara (Each one having an 'Adam
or Manu; we are now in the Vaivastha Manvanthara , presided by Vivasvaan Manu).

14 Manvantaras = 1 Kalpa .. so 14x71x4,320,000 = approx. 4,320,000,000 years.

1 Kalpa = Day time of 1 Brahma.

2 Kalpas = 1 Day of Brahma .. Universe creation at morning .. dissolution at night :lol:

Lifetime of a Brahma = 1 Blink of Vishnu. (Remember Anantapadmanabhaswamy.. everytime He opens His eyes .. the lotus (with a Brahma on it) comes out of the navel... when He closes His eyes.. the lotus recedes and that Brahma's life comes to an end).

:omg: :thumbsup: :rotfl: :notworthy:

What a shocking metaphor for the Eternal!!!!!! We are lesser than dust in front of such an image.

More here: http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/41.html.

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

13th May 2009, 09:07 AM

Prasad,

Yeah I've read about the yugas and brahma's single day. Seriously what minute particles we are ! :)

It is said apprx 1 million as average of 4 yuga ( 1 maha yuga)

Actually the context there is yuga and not maha yuga in that case, what u gave is right.

Since I no longer write cho's enge brahmnan Finally Ive turned back to gita :oops:

I wanna finish this thread atleast by this year end, so that I have no commitments left in hub :oops:

anbu_kathir

13th May 2009, 12:06 PM

Prasad,

Since I no longer write cho's enge brahmnan Finally Ive turned back to gita :oops:

:D

I wanna finish this thread atleast by this year end, so that I have no commitments left in hub :oops:

Why? adutha varushathula edavudhu nadakapogudha?? :D

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha.

13th May 2009, 12:56 PM

Chapter 4: Gnaana yoga / (transcendental knowledge) Verses 11 to 15

ye yatha maam prapadhyanthe tham thatha eva bhajami aham
mama vartham anuvarthanthe manushyah: paartha sarvasha:

kaangkshanthah: karmaNaam sidhdhim yajantha iha thevathah:
kshipram hi maanushe loke sidhdhir bhavathi karmaja

chathurvarNyam maya srushtam guna karma vibhagasha:
thasya karthaaram api maam viththyakarthaaram avyayam

namaam karmaaNi limpanthi name karmaphale Spruhaa
ithi maam yo abhijaanathi karmabhir na sa bhadhyathE

evam gnaathva krutham karma poorvair api mumukshupi:
guru karmaiva thasmaath tvam poorvai: poorvatharam krutham

Everyone surrender to me in their own way. I give the fruits and reward them accordingly (according to their karmas)

Since men need result for their action, they desire success and worship demigods (gods in forms). On earth the results
from fruitive action is very quick.

It was me who created the four varnas and their jobs as per a being's nature and activities. Me being the creator of
these divisions, one should still understand that I am the non-performer and the unchangeable. (the division is hence based
on nature and their attitude and not by birth, can be quite clearly understood)

No work or activity or karma or its fruits has effect on me. He who understands this truth about my supreme self, would not get entagled in karmas and its fruitive reactions.

Even after knowing this, the saintly souls or liberated souls did not give up action. They acted with understanding. Therefore you also should perform duty but with the feel of divinity.

என்னை மக்கள் எவ்விதம் அணுகுகின்றனரோ அவரவர்க்கேற்றபடி நான் அருள்புகிறேன். எவ்வழியை பின்பற்றும் மக்களும் என் வழியே பின்பற்றுகின்றனர்.

வெற்றியும் செயலின் பலனும் இவ்வுலகில் விரைவில் வந்து சேருகிறது. வெற்றியும் பலனும் விரும்புவோர், அவற்றை வழங்கும் தேவதைகளைத் தொழுகிறார்கள்

நான்கு வர்ணங்களை உருவாக்கியவன் நானே. ஒருவனின் குணத்திற்கும் கர்மத்திற்கும் செயலுக்கும் ஏற்றவாறு நான் உருவாக்கினேன். அவற்றை நான் படைத்திருப்பினும், நான் செயலற்றவன், அழிவற்றவன் என்று உணர்.

செயல்கள் என்னை பாதிப்பதில்லை. என்னை இவ்வாறு அறிந்தவன் கர்மங்களின் கட்டுகளினின்று விடுபடுகிறான்.

பண்டைய காலத்து சாதுக்கள் சாதகர்கள் இதை உணர்ந்து செயலாற்றினர். ஆகையால் நீயும் அவர்களைப் போல் உணர்ந்து செயலாற்றுவாயாக.

Shakthiprabha.

13th May 2009, 12:57 PM

Why? adutha varushathula edavudhu nadakapogudha?? :D

Love and Light.

:lol2: appadi ellaam illai, vera ethavathu ezhuthuven. avlo thaan :D

wrap07

13th May 2009, 03:00 PM

SP.
I also thought since you were updating Enge, you may not have time to do here.
still, your expert comments are required there also.

For you, being a reservoir of such wide knowledege and an uncanny ability to put across also, there will be umpteen things to write about and we will eagerly await the same. :D

prasad - amazing & mind boggling information :)

Shakthiprabha.

21st May 2009, 05:01 PM

Chapter 4:
Verses 16 to 23

kim karma kim akarmEthi kavayopyathra mohithah
thaththe karma pravakshyami yath gnaathva mokshayase ashubhaath ||

karmaNo hyapi bhoththavyam bhoththavyam cha vikarmaNah
akarmaNs cha bhoththavyam gahana karmaNo gathih:

karmaNi akarma yah pashyeth akarmaNi cha karma yah
sa bhuththimaan manushyEshu Sa yuktha: kruthaSan karmakruth

yasya sarve samaarambah: kaama sangkalpa varjitha:
gnaanagni dhakdha karmaNaam thamaahu: paNditham bhudhah

thyakthvaa karma phalasangkam nithya thruptho niraasrayah
karmaNy abhi pravrutho api naiva kinchith karothi sah

nirasheer yatha chitth aathmaa thyaktha sarva parikraha
shaareeram kevalam karma kurvan na apnothi kilpisham

yadhruchchaa labha santhushta dhvandhvaatheetho vimathsara
sama siththo-asiththou cha kruthvaapi na nibhathyathE

gatha sangkasya mukthasya gnaanaavasthitha chethasa
yagnaaya-charatha karma samagram pravileeyathE

Intelligent and wise men are too confused in deciding between what is action and inaction. I shall now, enlighten you as to what is action, the knowledge of which would make u liberated from sins.

Action with its complex nature is hard to perceive. One should know what is action, what are those actions which he should restrain to or forbid himself, and also what is inaction.

He who sees action in inaction and vice-versa is intelligent, and superior to others though he may be engaged inaction.

That person whose action is away from desire or sensual gratification he is a wise person. His actions are burned by knowledge leaving no residue on karma.

He forgoes all results of his activities, always remain satisfied and not dependant on outside environment for his gratification. He performs with no attachment towards fruits though engaged in all actions.

His actions are controlled well with mind and intelligence. He gives up on all sense of ego over his actions and ownership and acts for bare necessaties of life. He does not get affected by sinful reaction.

He is happy with gain which comes on its way by its own will, he is free from duality and does not indulge in jealousy or envy. He is unperturbed by success or failure and never gets caught whilst he performs actions.

Such man whose action is detached and not material in nature, he who is fully dwelling in the supreme knowledge merges into that knowledge of supreme.

செயல் நிலைக்கும் செயலற்ற நிலைக்கும் உள்ள வேறுபாடுகள் ஞானிகளுக்கே புதிரானவை. உன் பிறவி விடுதலைக்கு தேவையான செயல் எது என்பதை நான் உனக்கு விளக்குகிறேன்.

செயலும் அதன் நுணுக்கமான தன்மையையும் புரிந்து கொள்வது கடினமானது. செயல் எது, செய்யத்தகாத செயல் எது, செயலற்ற தன்மை எது என்பதை புரிந்துணர வேண்டும்.

எவன் ஒருவன் செயலின் ஊடே இருக்கும் செயலற்ற நிலையையும், செயலற்ற நிலையில் உள்ள செயலையும் அறிகிறானோ அவன் செயலில் ஈடுபட்டிருப்பினும், அவன் அறிவு மாற்றானை விட உயர் நிலையில் இருக்கிறது. அவனே யோகி.

ஆசையும் தன்னலமும் இல்லாது செயல் புரிபவன், புலன்களை வென்று செயல் புரிபவன், அவன் பண்டிதன். அவன் செயல்கள் ஞானத்தீயில் எரிந்து போகின்றது.

வினைப் பயனில் விருப்பம் கொள்ளாமல் எப்பொழுதும் போதுமென்ற மன அமைதியுடன் எதையும் சார்ந்திராமல் உள்ள ஒருவன் வினையாற்றிக் கொண்டு இருந்தாலும் எதையும் செய்வதில்லை.

ஆசைகளற்று மனதையும் ஆன்மாவையும் கட்டுப்பாட்டில் வைத்து பேராசை ஒழித்து, அஹங்காரத்தை களைந்து செயல்புரிபவன் பாவங்களிலினின்று விடுபடுகிறான்.

தனக்கு கிடைத்ததைக் கொண்டு திருப்தி அடைபவன் இரட்டைகளிலிருந்து விடுபட்டவன். வெற்றி தோல்வியை சம நோக்கோடு இருப்பவன் ஒருவன் செயல் புரிந்தாலும் அவன் அதனால் கட்டுப்படுவதில்லை.

இப்படிப்பட்ட யோகியின் செயல்கள் ஞானியில் செயல்கள் பற்றற்ற தன்மையோடு இருப்பதால், உயர் நிலையில் உள்ளதால் அவன் செயலும் உயர் நிலையில் கறைந்து போகிறது.

Shakthiprabha

25th May 2009, 04:26 PM

Chapter 4:
Verses 24 to 31

Brahma arpaNam brahma havir brahmaagnou brahmaNaa hutham
brahmaiva thena gandhavyam brahma karma samadhina

dhaivam evaapare yagnam yogina: paryupasathe
brahmaagnao apare yagnam yagnenaiva pajoohvathi

shrothrathiin inthiriyaaNy-anyE samyamaagnishu joohvathi
shapthaathiin vishayan-anya indriyagnishu joohvathi

sarvaaNi indriya karmaaNi prana karmaaNi chaaparE
aathma samyama yogaagnou joohvathi gnaana dheepithE

dhravya yagnjaa-thapo yagnjaa yoga yagnjaa thathaparE
svaadhyaaya gjaana yagnjaas cha yathaya: samshithavratha:

apaane joohvathi praaNam praaNE apaanam thathaaparE
praaNaapana gathi rudhvaa praaNaayaama paraayaNah:
aparE niyatha ahaara: praaNaan praNeshu joohvathi
savEpyEthE yagnjavitho yagnja kshapitha kalmasha
yagna sishtamrutha bhujo yaanti brahma sanathanam
naayam lokosthya yagnjasya kutho anyah: kurusatham

Sacrifcing is brahman. Sacrificial fire is brahman. The ghee offering is brahman. One who concentrates karma of sacrificial nature (karma yoga forgoing fruits), he attains brahman.

Some yogins offer sacrifices to please gods of various nature(forms). Whilst a fully realised person or gnaani offers or sacrifices his deeds in the fire calling upon the ultimate truth.

Some offer their senses and sense gratification in the sacrificial fire in way of renouncing them, whilest others sacrifice things which are pleasing or dear to them.

A yogi who is into self realisation offers all sense functions and its gratification, mind, his life breath and its functions.

Few others, sacrifice their material posessions, or practice strict discipline, practice yoga as a sacrifice. Some others study vedas and get immersed in delving upon supreme truth / knowledge and offering the same as sacrifice.

There are also men who retrain and control their breath, and offer breath control as sacrifice. They after reduce the intake of food and offer the same as sacrifice. These men who knows the meaning of sacrifice purify themselves from their sins, and enjoy the bliss of remnant of sacrfice , then they reach supreme eternal truth. Without sacrifice none can be happy in this material world, then what say of the world next!

அர்பணம் செய்தல் ப்ரமம். நெய்யாகிய அவியும் ப்ரம்மம். ப்ரம்மம் ஆகிய அக்னியில் ப்ரம்மத்தால் பிரம்மமாகிய நெய் சொரியப்படுகிறது. பிரம்மாகிய கர்மத்தில் மனம் நிறுத்தினால் பிரம்மம் அடையப்படுகிறது.

சில யோகிகள் தத்தம் தேவதைகளுக்கு வேள்வி செய்கிறார்கள். ஆன்மாவை உணர்ந்தவர்களோ பிரம்மமாகிய அக்னியில் ஆன்மாவைக் கொண்டு ஆன்ம வேள்வி செய்கின்றார்கள்.

சிலர் கட்டுப்பாடு கொண்டு புலன்களை தியாகம் செய்கின்றனர். சிலரோ புலனின்பத்தையும் புலன் தொடர்புள்ளவையும் தியாகம் செய்கின்றனர்.

வேறு சிலர் ஞானத்தால் தன்னடக்கம் எனும் யோகமாகிய தீயில் புலனின் செயல் அனைத்தையும், மூச்சு விடுதலாகிய உயிர் செயலையும் கூட தியாகம் செய்கின்றார்கள்.

மற்றவர்களோ செல்வம், சொத்து போன்ற போக வஸ்துக்களை தியாகம் செய்கிறார்கள். கடுமையான விரதமும் இருக்கிறார்கள். இன்னும் சிலர் மறைநூல்கள் படிப்பதை தியாகமாக செய்கின்றனர்.

சுவாசித்தலில் கவனம் கொண்டு சுவாச அடக்கம் மூலம் சிலர் தியாகம் செய்கின்றனர். உணவைக் கட்டுப்படுத்தி வேறு சிலர் தியாகம் செய்கின்றனர். தியாகத்தை பற்றி இவர்கள் உணர்ந்திருக்கிறார்கள். அதனால் அவர்கள் பாபங்கள் கழுவப்படுவதை தெரிந்து தியாகத்தின் மீதமுள்ள அமுதைக் கொண்டு திருப்தியடைந்து இறுதியில் பிரம்மத்தில் ஒன்றுபடுகிறார்கள். தியாகம் செய்யாதவர்களுக்கு இவ்வுலகே இல்லையெனில் அவ்வுலகைப் பற்றி என்ன கூறுவது!!

harishkumar09

29th May 2009, 09:53 PM

karmaN eva athikasrasthe ma paleshu kadhachana |
ma karmaphala-hethur-bhoor ma the sangosthvakarmaNi ||

The above verse is usually interpreted to mean that one should work without expectation of the results or rewards of ones action. We are told that disinterested action is what this verse recommends.

Madhva gives a novel and different interpretation to this verse. He says that one should perform actions and aspire for the fruits of ones actions ! He divides fruits into two kinds - mukhya phala and amukhya phala --- the primary and secondary. The primary fruits are knowledge , devotion and detachment from materialistic existence. The secondary fruits are materialistic ones like wealth, position and progeny. The Gita says one should expect the primary results and not the secondary results. On deeper analysis we find that the secondary results accrue inevitably as a result of the performance of ones actions, even if we don't wish for them. Elsewhere the Gita states "kripana phala hetava" -- misers are those who work for the fruits of ones actions. Why work for something which you would anyhow get ? If we work in a company we would get the salary anyhow , so why work for it ? Instead we can aspire for something higher and work to make the company bigger or the nation stronger. The highest of all possible ideals is service to Narayana , performing work as offering to Him.

harishkumar09

29th May 2009, 10:16 PM

Also performing actions without bothering about the results will not free us. If we do something good we will eventually get the fruit of that action and be bound to it , notwithstanding the fact that we were not interested in the results. Similary evil actions bind us and give us suffering.

It is only Yagna-arthath karma or work done to satisfy Vishnu that is non-binding.All other works whether they are performed disinterestedly or interestedly , with an eye on the fruits or without an eye on the fruits , are binding.

harishkumar09

29th May 2009, 10:51 PM

When one performs actions with expectation of fruits there is certainly stress and anxiety as the person knows he may or may not get what he wants.

When he performs without any expectation of fruits, performing it as a duty, he experiences peace of mind.But this peace of mind is the result of bondage to sattva guna and it is not freedom from actions. The bliss of sattva guna is inferior and different from transcendental bliss born out of moksha and dissociation with the three gunas.

Transcendental bliss is millions of times superior to bliss experienced due to bondage to sattva guna.

Shakthiprabha

8th June 2009, 12:28 PM

Madhva gives a novel and different interpretation to this verse. He says that one should perform actions and aspire for the fruits of ones actions ! He divides fruits into two kinds - mukhya phala and amukhya phala --- the primary and secondary. The primary fruits are knowledge , devotion and detachment from materialistic existence. The secondary fruits are materialistic ones like wealth, position and progeny. The Gita says one should expect the primary results and not the secondary results. On deeper analysis we find that the secondary results accrue inevitably as a result of the performance of ones actions, even if we don't wish for them.

Interesting facts about primary and secondary fruits :ty: However Ive read that, it seems the ultimate detachment is even detaching from the concept of god himself or knowledge or bhakthi. The essense should be just BEING (not attaching to any kind of fruit) and thats all there is to it, but then, thats talking about very superior level and not applicable to almost everybody.

suvai

15th June 2009, 06:02 AM

Hi SP nga!
Iniki enna slokam poda poreenga ?
This is a very interesting thread hope it continues nga!
ipadiku
s

Shakthiprabha

14th July 2009, 11:06 AM

When he performs without any expectation of fruits, performing it as a duty, he experiences peace of mind.But this peace of mind is the result of bondage to sattva guna and it is not freedom from actions. Transcendental bliss is millions of times superior to bliss experienced due to bondage to sattva guna.

Nicely put. :ty: :bow:

Shakthiprabha

14th July 2009, 12:37 PM

Chapter 4:
Verses 32 to 42

evam bahoovidha yagna vithatha brahmaNa mukE
karma gnaanam viththithaan sarvaan Evam gnaathvaa vimokshayaSe

shreyaan dhravyamayaad yagnjaath-gnaan yagnah paranthapa
sarvam karma-akilam paartha gnjaanE pari samaapyathE

thadhvidhdhi praNipathEna pariprashnEna sEvaya
upadhEkshayanthi the gnaanam gnjaaninaS thathvatharshina

yajnjaathvaa na punar moham evam yaasyasi paandava
ena bhoothaani aseshaNi dhrakshyaSi aathmani atho mayi

api chEthasi paapebya: sarvebhya: paapa kruth thamah:
sarvam njaanaplavenaiva vrujinam santhrishyasi

yathaidhaamsi smidhdho-agnir bhasmasaath kuruthe arjuna
njaanagni: sarvakarmaaNi bhasmasaath kruthE thatha

na hi njaanEna sadhrusham pavithram iha vidhyathe
thath svayam yoga samsiththa: kaleenaathmani vindhathi

shradhaavaalabathe gnaanam thathpara: samyathendhiraya:
gnaanam labdhva paraam shanthim achireNa adhigacchathi

agnjaasshch-shradha dhaanascha samshayathma vinashyathi
naayam loko-sthi na para: na sukam samshayaathmana :

yoga sanyastha karmaaNam gnjaanasanjchinna samshayam
aathmavantham na karmaaNi nibadhnanthi dhananjaya:

thasmaadh agnjaana sambhootham hruthstham njaanasinaathmana:
chithvainam samshayam yogam aathishtoththishta bharatha

These different types of sacrifice are all born from the types of karmic actions and are prescribed by the vedas. Knowing them this way you will be liberated.

Sacrificing with (in) knowledge is superior than sacrificing material posession. Arjuna, all work or karma and its benefits end in supreme knowledge alone.

Acquire such supreme knowledge by seeking a spritual master. Humble Inquires are to be sought from him by serving him. A great master who is a realised soul has seen the supreme knowledge and he would impart and reveal the divine knowledge.

With this knowledge, you would be devoid of maya and hence recognise me in all living beings and they in me.

Even if you are most sinful among the sinners, this boat of divine knowledge would help you cross the sea of sorrows.

Just as how a flame of fire powders wood into ashes, so arjuna, does the fire of knowledge burns the reactions of actions which are material in nature.

There is nothing as pure and superior as this truth or divine knowledge. One who acquires such knowledge and unites himself to the supreme bliss enjoys pure realisation with perseverence.

Seeker who is immensed in this knowledge and who conquers his senses, attains supreme peace.

One who is faithless ignorant and doubtful about this supreme knowledge do not reach higher realms and is ruined in pitfalls. He is neither blessed with happiness in this world or the next.

Arjuna, one who sacrifices his fruits of actions, burns his doubts with the fire of knowledge, one who is steadily meditating on self is not bound by karmic reactions.

Hence defeat and ruin these doubts which arises out of ignorance. Be a yogin and arise to ur duty.

பரந்திருக்கும் பல்வகையான யக்ஞங்களும் வேதங்களால் கற்பிக்கப்பட்டவை. செயல்களினால் அவை பிறக்கின்றன என்பதை உணர்ந்து விடுதலை பெறுவாய்.

அர்ஜூனா ஞானவேள்வி பொருள் தியாகத்தினால் செய்யப்படும் வேள்வியை விட உயர்ந்தது.செயல்கள் அனைத்துமே ஞானத்தில் முடிவடைகின்றன.

உயர்ந்த ஞானத்தை சிறந்த குருவின் பாதம் பணிந்து கேள்விகள் கெட்டும், சேவைகள் செய்தும் அறிந்துகொள். சத்தியத்தை உணர்ந்த ஞானிகள் உனக்கு அவற்றை கற்பிப்பார்கள்.

அத்தகைய உயர்ந்த ஞானத்தை அறிந்துகொண்ட பிறகு மீண்டும் இம்மாதிரி மயக்கத்தை அடையமாட்டாய். அதன் பின் அனைத்து உயிரின் உள்ளே என்னையும் என்னுள் அவர்களையுமே நீ காண்பாய்

பாபிகளுள் மிகப்பெரிய பாபியாக இருந்தாலும், ஞானமாகிய படகைக் கொண்டு துன்பக்கடலை நீந்தப்பெறலாம்.

கொழுந்துவிட்டெரியும் நெருப்பினாது எவ்வாறு விறகுக்கட்டையை சாம்பலாக்குகிறதோ ஞானமாகிய நெருப்பு செயல்களை எரித்துச் சாமபாக்குகிறது.

ஞானத்தை விட உயர்ந்த புனிதமானப்பொருள் வேறொன்றில்லை. நிறைவைக் கண்ட யோகி முயற்ச்சியனால் அதை தன்னுள் காணப்பெறுகிறான்.

பூரண நம்பிக்கை உள்ளவனும் சிரத்தையுள்ளவனும் புலன்களை அடக்கியாண்டவனுமாகிய ஒருவன் ஞானத்தை அடைகிறான். ஞானத்தை அடைவதால் மேலான அமைதி கிடைக்கப்பெறுகிறான்.

மூடனும் அறிவற்றவனும் நம்பிக்கையற்றவனும் சந்தேகப்படுகிறவனுமாகிய ஒருவன் அழிவை நோக்கி போகின்றான். சந்தேகப்படுகிறவனுக்கு இவ்வுலகிலோ மறுவுலகிலோ அமைதியோ இன்பமோ கிடையாது.

யோகத்தால் செயலைத் துறந்து, ஞானத்தால் ஐயத்தை போக்கிக்கொண்டு, இந்திரியங்களைக் கட்டியாளும் ஒருவனை செய்ல்களும் அதன் விளைவுகளும் கட்டுப்படுத்த மாட்டா.

எனவே, அறியாமையால் உள்ளத்தேயமர்ந்திருக்கும் ஐயத்தை, ஞானத்தினால் அழித்துவிட்டு, யோகத்தை ஷரண்டந்து கர்மத்தை செய்ய புறப்படு.

நான்காம் அத்தியாயம் : ஞான-விபாக யோகம் முற்றிற்று
End of Chater 4: Gnaana yoga / Transcendental knowledge

Shakthiprabha

14th July 2009, 12:49 PM

anbu_kathir

14th July 2009, 02:08 PM

Sacrificing with (in) knowledge is superior than sacrificing material posession. Arjuna, all work or karma and its benefits end in supreme knowledge alone.

Can someone please explain this. (harishkumar, wrap, prakash, anyone else)

Sacrificing in knowledge (any sacrifice done with true gnaana) or sacrificing the knowledge itself?

(ஞானவேள்வி ) ஞானத்தால் செய்யும் வேள்வியா? அல்லது
ஞானத்தின் வேள்வியா?

Should be more of the former than the latter, I think.

The physical act of sacrifice itself has no meaning if one cannot look beyond the metaphor of the sacrifice, which is meant to convey the destructive-constructive cyclic dynamism of all Life in the minds of the entities involved in the sacrifice. True Gnaana is what firmly establishes this Truth about the nature of Life (and therefore God) in the mind and heart of the individual, and obviously a sacrifice performed by such an individual who possesses (or is possessed by ) such Gnaana is on par with the Divine sacrifice of Life(God) by Life(God) to Life(God) Itself.

On the other hand, sacrificing Atma-Gnaana (for the sake of a higher goal) itself might be implied. This might be in the sense of the Bhakti disciplines, where the highest state might not be Atma-Gnaana, but the actual divine service of the Lord in his Transcendent form Himself. Perhaps this is the definition of Atma Gnaana for the Bhakti disciplines. Not sure though.

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha

14th July 2009, 02:41 PM

anbu_kathir

14th July 2009, 02:53 PM

The physical act of sacrifice itself has no meaning if one cannot look beyond the metaphor of the sacrifice, which is meant to convey the destructive-constructive cyclic dynamism of all Life in the minds of the entities involved in the sacrifice. True Gnaana is what firmly establishes this Truth about the nature of Life (and therefore God) in the mind and heart of the individual, and obviously a sacrifice performed by such an individual who possesses (or is possessed by ) such Gnaana is on par with the Divine sacrifice of Life(God) by Life(God) to Life(God) Itself.

On the other hand, sacrificing Atma-Gnaana (for the sake of a higher goal) itself might be implied. This might be in the sense of the Bhakti disciplines, where the highest state might not be Atma-Gnaana, but the actual divine service of the Lord in his Transcendent form Himself. Perhaps this is the definition of Atma Gnaana for the Bhakti disciplines. Not sure though.

Love and Light.

I deciphered the former too prakash.

However, I too have heard versions talkin on letting go even the gnaana, implying, when we go nearer to the UNMANIFEST TRUTH, (not otherwise) everything even the GNAANA itself has to be let off, as everything is finally "nothing" (not to mean nothing)

Hare Krishna :D

Ippadi "prasad"lerndhu, "prakash"nnu pEra maathiteengalE. Pesaama "a_k" nne koopidunga :P.

IMHO, the one who has attained Atma-Gnaana is not the possessor of Atma-Gnaana (as in the possessor in material wealth). It is a simple transformation of the I-consciousness. Once the individual assumes it to be his body-mind, now he knows what He truly is. In that sense, there is no knowledge that is possessed but only that which the individual becomes. So how do you give up something which you are? You can only give up something which you have. Puriyala :D!

Love and Light.

Shakthiprabha

14th July 2009, 02:58 PM

:oops: sorry wonder where I got prakash from :oops: :ashamed:

So how do you give up something which you are? You can only give up something which you have. Puriyala !

Ah beautiful perspective. :bow:

May be thats why its said, as u keep climbing the ladder...u possess knowledge...then slowly u realise and become the knowledge itself...... when u BECOME that, then u already have given up (as u rise into a newer realm)

Shakthiprabha

17th July 2009, 12:26 PM

Chapter 5: KARMA-SANYASA YOGA

Verses 1 TO 5

sanyaasam karmaNaam krishna punaryogam cha shamsasi
yach-chrEya Ethayor Ekam thanmE broohi su-nishchitham

sanyaasa karma-yogashcha nishrEyasakaraa-vubou
thayosthu karma-sayaasaath karmayogo vishishyathE

gnEya sa nithya-sanyaasi yo na dhvEshti na kaangkshathi
nirdhvandhvo hi mahabhaho sukham bhandhath pramuchyathE

sankya yogau bruthag baala: pravadhanthi na paNditha:
ekam apy-aasthitha: samyak upayOrvindhathe phalam

yath sankyai praapyathE sthaanam thath yogairapi gamyathE
Ekham sankyam cha yogam cha yah pashyathi sa pasyathi

Arjuna raised the doubt: Krishna, initially you told me to give up work, later you praise work with devotion. Please definitely decide and recommend me which path is beneficial.

Krishna said: Renouncing the karma and karma with devotion are both good for uniting with the supreme consciousness. Of the two however, to do karma with devotion is better than giving up the karma itself.

That seeker who do not want fruits of his karma is known to do karma with devotion. Such a person is liberated as he is free from dualities and he easily crosses the bondage caused due to material desires.

One who does not possess enough knowledge and who is ignorant talks that renounciation and karma with devotion as
different from one another. That person who is knowledgeable and is treadding in one of these path reaches the goal.

He who understands that goal attained by renunciaton of karma can also be attained by practicing karma yoga and thereby
knows both the path are one.

அர்ஜுனன் சொன்னதாவது: க்ருஷ்ணா கர்ம சன்யாசமான செயல்களைத் துறப்பதே சிறந்ததென்று கூறும் நீயே கர்மயோகத்தைப் பற்றியும் புகழ்கிறாய். இவை இரண்டில் எது சிறந்ததென்று முடிவாகச் சொல்.

கர்மசன்யாசம், கர்மயோகம் ஆகிய இரண்டுமே உயர்ந்த மோக்ஷத்திற்கு வழிகாட்டி, எனினும் கர்மசன்யாசத்தை விட கர்மயோகம் உயர்ந்தது.

விருப்பு வெறுப்பின்றி எவனொருவன் கர்ம பலனை எதிர்பாராது கர்மம் புரிகிறானோ அவன் கர்ம சன்யாஸி என்றே அறியவேண்டும். இரட்டைகளிலிருந்து விடுபட்ட அவன், வெகு எளிதாக பந்தத்தினின்றும் விடுபடுகிறான்.

ஞானமும் கர்மயோகமும் வெவ்வேறானவை என்பது அறிவிலிகளின் கூற்று. அறிஞனோ இப்பாதைகளில் எந்த ஒன்றை நிலைநிறுத்தினாலும், சேர்குமிடம் ஒன்றே என்ற தெளிந்த சிந்தையுடையோன்.

சாங்கியர்களால் அல்லது ஞானமடைந்தோர்களால் அடையப்படும் உயர்ந்த இடத்தை கர்மயோகிகளும் அடைகிறார்கள். ஞானத்தையும் கர்மத்தையும் ஒன்றாகப் பார்ப்பவனே சரியாக உணர்ந்தோனாவான்.

Shakthiprabha

22nd July 2009, 11:12 AM

Verses 6 TO 10

sanyaasasthu maha bhaho thukkam aapthum ayogatha:
yoga-yuktho munir brahma nachirENaadhi gachathi ||

yoga-yuktho vishudhaatma vijithaatma jithendriya:
sarva bhoothaathma-bhoothaatmaa kurvannapi na lipyathE ||

naiva kinchith karomeethi yuktho manyetha thathvavith
pashyan sruNvan sprushan jigran asnan gacchan svaban shvasan
pralapan visrujan gruhNan unmishan nishann api
indriyaaNi-indriyaartheshu varthaantha ithi dhaarayan ||

brahmaNi aadhaya karmaaNi sangam thyakthva karothi ya:
lipyathE na sa paapena padhma pathram ivaambhasa ||

Renunciation of activities without feeling the oneness of the lord, cannot yield happiness. Sages and wise men, who performs the action with knowledge, i.e. with the knowledge of supreme one-ness, attains the supreme state quickly.

That person who controls his senses and works in pure consciousness, of seeing every soul in him, and himself in every being, though he works, his works do not bound him.

He who identifies himself with every being and exists in supreme consciousness although may be involved in sensual activities of seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, sleeping and breathing he knows that he does nothing. He knows he is not the senses and these jobs are the job's of his senses like the opening and closing of lids automatically, he knows he is different from them, therefore he does nothing.

If duty is performed in detached manner, without the thought of its fruits, then that person is not affected by any of his acts, he is taintless of sin, just like lotus leaf is not drenched by the water.

ஞானமற்றாவன் செயல்களைத் துறப்பது அமைதியைத் தரமாட்டாது. பண்பட்ட யோகி, நிறைந்த அறிவுடன் செயலாற்றுவதால் அவன் விரைவில் பிரம்மதை அடைகிறான்.

தூய மனமுள்ளவனும், பிரம்ம அறிவுடன் செயலாற்றுபவனும், இந்த்ரியங்களை அடக்கி ஆள்பவனும், தன்னையே பிற உயிர்களிடத்து காண்பவனும், செயலில் ஈடுபட்டாலும் அவனை செயல்கள் கட்டுப்படுத்துவதில்லை.

சத்தியத்தை உணர்ந்தவன் 'தான் ஒன்றையும் செய்வதில்லை' என்று உணர்ந்திருக்கிறான். பார்ப்ப்தும் கேட்பதும் நுகர்வதும், தொடுவதும் உண்ணும் போது உறங்கும் போது மூச்சுவிடும் போதும் கூட தன் புலன்களே செயலில் ஈடுபடுகிறது, இமைகள் துடிப்பது போன்ற இயல்பினோடு தன் புலன்களின் செயல்களைக் காண்கிறான். அவன் புலன்களினின்று தன்னை வேறுபடுத்திக் காண்கிறான்.

செயல்களை பற்றுதலின்றி விருப்பு வெறுப்புக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டு, பலனை எதிர்பாராது செய்யும் ஒருவனை, பாபச் செயல்களும் கட்டுப்படுத்துவதில்லை. நீரினைப் பற்றாத தாமரை இலையைப் போல் செயலினின்று தனித்து நிற்கிறான்.

Shakthiprabha

6th August 2009, 01:08 PM

Verses 11 TO 22

kaayena manasa bhudhya kevalair-indriyair api
yoginah karma kurvanthi sangam thakthvaathma shudhayE

yukthah karma phalam thyakthva shanthim aapnothi naishthikeem
ayukthah: kaama kaareNa phale saktho nibhadhyathE

sarva karmaaNi manasa sanyasyasthE sukham vashi
nava dhvarE purE dehi na eva kurvan na kaarayan

na karthruthvam na karmaaNi lokasya srujathi prabhuh
na karma phala sam-yogam svapavasthu pravarththathE

na-adhaththE kasyachith paapam na chaiva sookrutham vibhu:
agnaanena-avrutham gnaanam thena muhyanthijanthavah

gnaanEna thu thadh agnaanam yesham nashitham aathmana:
thEshaam-aadhithyavajgnaanam prakashayathi thathpram

thadhbudhaya-thadhathmaanaS than nishthaas thath paraayaNaa:
gachchanthyapunaravruthim gnaana nirdhootha kalmashaa:

vidhya vinaya sampannE braahmaNe kavi hasthini
shuni chaiva svabhakE cha panditha: sama-dharshina:

ihaiva thairjitha: sargo yeshaam saamyE sthitham manah
nirdhosham-hi samam brahma thasmaadh brahmaNi the sthitha:

na prahrushyeth priyam prapya na-udhvijEth praapya cha-apriyam
sthira bhudhir asammudho brahmavidh brahmaNi sthithah:

bhahya sparseshv-asakthaathma vinthathi athmani yath sukam
sa brahma yoga yukthaathma sukam askshayam ashnuthE

ye hi samsparshaja bhoga dhukha yonaya eva thE
aadhyanthavathah: kaunthEya na theshu ramathe bhudhah:

Realised seekers forgo their attachment and do their action of body, mind, intellect and senses, only to purify their self.

Devotee who gives up the desire for the fruit of action attains un-interrupted peace, on the otherhand he who performs action with the desire to reap the fruits gets entangled and bound by his desires and actions.

When an embodied being renounces all his fruitive actions, and do not think that, he is the cause or doer of any action, then alone he in the physical body of nine gates, dwells peacefully.

The tangled self, does not create activities , neither the action nor the fruits of it. These actions and its fruits are materialisitc and are formed because ways of action.

Divine self does not par-take in either the sins or righteous actions of bound jivas. Embodied selves are perplexed due to the maaya or ignorance which covers the real truth.

If one is enriched by this knowledge of the supreme truth, that knowledge itself destroyes the darkness of ignorance and rises up and illuminates the real self.

That person attains liberation from material existence, he whose mind and senses is fixed on the supreme. His confusions are cleared by the knowledge of spiritual truth.

A wise gnaani is blessed with true knowledge to have an equal vision or bhava towards a learned braahmaNa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and those who eat lower animals.

Such wise men whose intellect is stay put in the equi-vision are free from dualities and conquer the life or the chakra of birth and death in that very life. They already thus dwell in the supreme truth.

Such a person who is thus situated in divine knowledge, realised in the ultimate truth, would not rejoice for things pleasant or lament for getting things unpleasant.

He is not attached to the material pleasures or pleasures derived from external objects, but is situated in the eternal bliss within. This self realised person enjoys pure abundant bliss on concentrating on the ultimate consciousness.

The pleasures of mind and body or those that are material in nature has a beginning and end, it is a source of misery. spiritually enlightened ones do not take delight in them.

யோகியர்கள் பற்றை விடுத்து, தூய்மை பெறுவதற்காக உடலால், மனதால், அறிவாலும் புலன்களாலும் செயலாற்றுகின்றனர்.

பண்பட்ட மனமுடைய பக்தன் செயல்களின் பலன்களைத் துறந்து விட்டு நிலையான அமைதியைப் பெறுகிறான். பண்படாத மனம் கொண்டு ஆசைகளின் வழியில் பலனை எதிர்பார்த்து செய்பவன் தளைகளால் கட்டுப்படுகிறான்.

ஒன்பது வாசல்களையுடைய உடலால் கட்டுள்ளபட்ட ஜீவன், பலன்களைத் துறந்து, 'செயல்களுக்கு தானே கர்த்தா' என்ற எண்ணமின்றி செயல்படுபடுவானேயானால் அவன் ஆன்ம மகிழ்ச்சியோடு இருக்கிறான்.

இறையாற்றல், செய்யலைச் செய்யும் உரிமையையோ, அதன் பலனில் திளைக்கும் தன்மையும், செயல்களையோ கூட உண்டாக்குவது இல்லை. அவை இயற்கையின் கர்ம விதிப்படி உண்டாகிறது.

பரம்பொருள், கட்டுண்ட ஜீவன்களின் நற்செயல்களிலோ அல்லவற்றிலோ வெளிப்படுவதில்லை. அஞ்ஞானத்தில் மூழ்கியுள்ள ஜீவனே மாயையினால் குழப்பத்தில் ஆழ்கிறது.

அறியாமை ஞானத்தினால் அழிக்கப்படும்பொழுது அது கதிரவனின் ஜோதியாய் உள்ளெழுந்து பரம்பொருளைக் உணர்த்துகிறது.

யோக ஞானத்தில் நிலைத்து, மனத்தையும் புலன்களையும் இறைவனிடத்தே திருப்பியவனின், மாயையும் பாபங்களும் கர்மங்களும் நீக்கப்பெற்று உயர்கதியையும் முக்தியையும் அடைகிறான்.

உண்மையின் தன்மையை உணர்ந்த ஞானியாகப்பட்டவன், நற் சாறோனாக விளங்கும் ஒரு பிராமணனையும், பசுவையும், யானையையும், நாயையும், இழிமாமிசங்களைத் தின்று வாழ்பவனையும், ஒரே பார்வையுடன் நோக்குகிறான்.

மனதை சமநிலையில் சமப்பார்வையோடு வைத்திருப்பவர்கள் பிறவி சுழலைக் கடக்கிறார்கள். களாங்கமற்ற பிரம்மத்திடம் நிலை பெறுகிறார்கள். (பி.கு: பிரம்மம் களங்கமற்றது. அதனால் எவ்வுயிரும் களங்கமற்றது. உயிரினுள் விளைந்திருக்கும் ஆசைகளும், நல்ல கர்மங்களும், தீய கர்மங்களும் மாயையினால் விளைந்தவை என்பதால், எல்லா ஜீவன்களும் ஒன்றே என்ற எண்ணத்துடன் பார்ப்பது சமப்பார்வை

பிரம்மனில் நிலைபெற்ற உறுதியான மனம் உடையவன், துன்பம் வரும்போது துவள்வதும், இன்பம் வரும் போதும் அகமகிழ்வதும் இல்லை.

வெளித் தொடர்புகளினால் உண்டாகும் இன்பத்திலும் துன்பத்திலும் அவன் மனம் ஒன்றுவதில்லை. தன்னுள் புதைந்து ஆன்ம இன்பத்தில் திளைத்திருக்கிறான். பிரம்ம தியானத்தில் இருப்பதால் அவன் முடிவற்ற இன்பத்தை அடைகிறான்.

உலகியல் பொருட்களால் விளையும் இன்பங்களுக்கும் துன்பங்களுக்கும் ஆரம்பமும் முடிவும் இருக்கும். அவை துன்பத்தையே உண்டாக்கும். ஞானிகள் அவற்றில் திளைப்பதில்லை.

Shakthiprabha

1st September 2009, 12:53 PM

Chapter 5
Verses 23 TO 29

shaknoteehaiva yah sodhum praak shareera vimokshanaath
kaama kordhodhbhavam vEgam sa yukthah sa sukhi narah

yo antah sukho antaraaraamas thathaa antar-jyothir eva yah
sa yogi brahma-nirvaaNam brahmabhootho-adigachchathi

labhanthe brahma nivaaNam rshya: ksheeNa kalmashaah
chinna-dvaidhaa yathaatmaanah sarvabhootha hite rathah

kaama krodha viyukthaanam yathinaam yatha chethasaam
abhitho brahma nirvaaNam vartathE vidhithaathmanaam

sparshan kruthva bahir-baahyaans chakshush chaivanthare bhruvoh
praaNapaanau samau kruthva naasaabhayantaarachaariNau
yatendriya manobuddhir munir moksha paraayaNah
vigathechaa bhayakrodho yah sadaa mukta eva sah

bhoktaaram yajna thapasaam sarvaloka maheshwaram
suhrdam sarvabhutaanaam jnaatva maam shaanthim ruchchathi

That person who can resist the rush of material desires and controls rise of anger, he is becomes a yogin, right here, even before he gives up his body.

Such man who finds happiness within himself, who is happy and shines in himself he becomes divine liberated, and attains the brahman

Good souls who are free from sin, who has disciplined his mind, who works for other's happiness and whose doubts or duality no longer exist achieves liberation.

Those souls which are self-realised, free from anger and desires, and strives for perfection, for such souls liberation is very near.

Away from external pleasures, with concentration fixing the vision between the eyebrows, breathing evenly inward and outward thereby controlling the mind and senses, thus get freed from desire and the turmoils of mind. He is always in the state of liberation.

Knowing me as the supreme goal of all sacrifices and rituals , supreme god of all worlds, a kind protector of living entities, that person is a sage, and attains peace.

எவனொருவன் ஆசையை, கோபத்தை, மனக்கிளர்ச்சிகளை அடக்கியாளும் வலிமை பெற்றிருக்கிறானோ, அவன் யோகி. யோகத்தில் நிலைத்தவன், உடல் நீங்குவதற்கு முன்பே அவன் யோக நிலை அடைகிறான்.

தன்னுள் சுகித்திருப்பவனும், தன் ஆன்ம ஒளியில் முகிழ்ந்திருப்பவனும், மகிழ்ச்சியும் நிறையப் பெற்ற யோகி பூர்ண விடுதலை பெற்று தானே பிரம்மம் ஆகின்றான்.

யோகிகள் சாதுக்களின் பாபங்கள் அழிக்கப்பட்டுவிடுவதால், அவர்கள் இரட்டைகளிலிருந்து அகன்று, பிற உயர்களின் நலம் நாடுபவர்களாக இருப்பதால் அவர்கள் மோக்ஷம் பெறுகிறார்கள்.

ஆசைகளை கோபத்தை துறந்து எண்ணங்களைக் கட்டுக்குள் கொணர்ந்து ஆத்மாவை உணர்ந்தவர்களுக்கு மோக்ஷம் வெகு விரைவில் கிட்டுகிறது.

வெளித் தொடர்புகளை நீக்கி, பார்வையை புருவங்களில் மத்தியில் வைத்து நாசியினுள்ளும் புறமும் செல்லும் மூச்சை சமநிலைப் படுத்தி, இந்திரியம் மனம் புத்தி அடக்கி, மோக்ஷத்தை உயர்வாய் நாடும் துறவி வீடு பேற்றினை அடைகிறான்.

யாகத்திற்கும் தவத்திற்கும் உடையவனாய், உலகுக்கெல்லாம் ஈசனாய், எல்லா உயிர்களின் நலம் விரும்பியாய், நண்பனாய் உள்ள என்னை அறிந்தவன் மேலான உயர்வு பெறுகிறான்.

(End of chapter 5 (karma-sanyasa yoga) )

(ஐந்தாம் அத்தியாயம் கர்ம-ஸன்யாச யோகம் முற்றிற்று)