Destruction of Ramsetu

[piyush111]

Hi to everyone,
As Govt of India preparing to destruct Ramsetu that is believed to be created by Lord Rama and his associates many Hindu activist raised their voice against it. What do you think the proper way to deal with it? Take all the positive and negative summary and reply.

[Devar Magan]

there is no ramsethu... go ahead with the project..

kadavulai mara,
manidhanai ninai.

[Gaza]

government shud not mend such projects fr communal forces in our country..

[lord_labakudoss]

...
As Govt of India preparing to destruct Ramsetu that is believed to be created by Lord Rama and his associates many Hindu activist raised their voice against it. What do you think the proper way to deal with it? Take all the positive and negative summary and reply.
Can a 300 m cut in a multi-km formation be termed as "destruction"?
Haven't we made similar small changes to sacred mountains like Thirumala (built roads by cutting into the mountain) or rivers like Ganga (built up embankments)?
I think the proper way to deal with this is as follows:
1) Allow creation of a HUGE Hanuman statue facing Lanka.
2) Allow creation of a 'Ramayana' Museum at Rameswaram combined with ferry service to the Hanuman statue from Rameswaram & Tuticorin
3) In return for the above, request permission for a 300-500 m cut in the Setu for ships and tourist ferries to pass through.
Instead of pleasing every section (new museum & statue for Ram Bhaktas, canal gets built, new revenue streams for South TN), the Gov seems to have DISPLEASED every section by insulting Ram Bhaktas AND stalling the Canal project.

Note that the Govt does not have to fund 1 & 2. I am sure the Bajrang Dal and the VHP will come through with the funds required for that.

Regards,
Lord Labakudoss

[wrap07]

NASA has released a picture saying that RAMAR SETHU exists. But due to pressure from obvious sources, they are silent.

it is has indisputably said by many skilled scientists and environmentalists, that the expenses of this project is huge and the results proposed to be achieved will be far less. It will create one more security hazard for our country from one more belt.

Just for the sake of annoucing a project, crores of money need not be spent on an exercise whose objective may not achieve the results.

If we want to destroy each and everyone of our traditional monuments just because we do not understand how it was created, we will be left with nothing.

God does not need proof and whatever happens, finally truth will prevail.

[joe]

finally truth will prevail.

Sure!

[sriranga]

NASA has released a picture saying that RAMAR SETHU exists. But due to pressure from obvious sources, they are silent.

it is has indisputably said by many skilled scientists and environmentalists, that the expenses of this project is huge and the results proposed to be achieved will be far less. It will create one more security hazard for our country from one more belt.

Just for the sake of annoucing a project, crores of money need not be spent on an exercise whose objective may not achieve the results.

If we want to destroy each and everyone of our traditional monuments just because we do not understand how it was created, we will be left with nothing.

God does not need proof and whatever happens, finally truth will prevail.


exactly.

lot of questions need to be answered:
Ram setu is supposed to save time and money. but thats not the whole truth.
1. ram setu will help only small ships, big ships will go around sri lanka. also, they are going to charge small ships for towing which will not be economical for those ships. they are better off going around sri lanka. Also, for towing there is a speed limit due to shallow waters. so, the small ships won't be saving that much time either. the main purpose itself seem to be defeated in the first place.

2. environmental damage to the region will not be known for sometime. ram setu is supposed to contain corals and those will be destroyed for sure. Not sure they have done any environmental study after tsunami. Fishermen will be affected for sure.

3. government needs to spend around 200 or so crores every year for dredging the sand that gets accumulated. high cost of maintenance is a recipe for kickbacks and fraud. dredging pannatha yaaru poi allakka poroam. remember your neighbouhood roads are being relaid every six months and develop potholes at the slightest drizzle.

4. The desire by the governments and those in power to complete the project in haste suggest that there is some ulterior motive.

[pizzalot]

Ram should not have constructed a Sethu first of all. He could have used other means to reach Sri Lanka. He could have used ships and boats to transport his army. Sorry folks. I have to tell you, he has destroyed the environment. Now we are cleaning the mess he has created.

In any case he has not maintained and protected his property so far and let it submerge into water. We needed NASA to remind us about Sethu. Now that it is discovered, we will restore it. We will do what Ram failed to do. That is right. We will raise it above the sea. It will be an extension of Pampan Bridge which will go into SriLanka. We will also perform poojas regularly. Dont worry. We do not need to go by boat to perform the pooja anymore. We will be right there. We will also get some revenue from selling souveneirs and momentos. Cool !

We have proved to the world how vulnerable we are ! NASA can influence India so much with a few pictures and stills. We let NASA take jobs of men of secret service agents who work day and night to destroy India. When just few pictures of NASA can stir us so much why should these men in intelligence services be paid so heftily? In anycase my understanding was it will increase security conditions in India. We will be able to patrol the area with larger ships. It will only be a nightmare to a very few. But otherwise it should be ok.

Now lot of laymen have become project managers talking about project viability. Hey come on. The Government investors have studied the project and feels it is viable and profitable. It is only some vicious elements preaching us otherwise.

[wrap07]

Ramar sethu has saved the west coast and Kerala from total destruction during the ferocious Tsunami in 2004. This was mentioned by oceanographic and tsunami experts.. According to them(not one), in the event of Ramar Sethu being cut, this will have wide ramifications on the environment as also the ecological balance of the Region. Even the Thorium deposits, largest in the world and which can meet the energy requirements up to the next century, available in the region will become defunct.


So to say that this bridge under water is spoiling the environment is beyond human comprehension and to be laughed at. On the contrary, Ramar Bridge apart from religious significance (for which no enlightened and secular minded persons will give a damn especially if it is related to our heritage and culture) has helped save lives without which millions of human lives could have been messed up around west coast.

Nobody is trying to bring up the Ramar Bridge over the water which is possible only by natural process of water level receding. Where is the question of restoring it above the sea level.

We do not need NASA to remind us of our cultural ethos and heritage. There are clear cut historical and archaeological evidence for the existence of Ramar Sethu which has been brought out by various fora. These evidencs date back to our epigraphs wherein our ancient rulers have recorded about their visiting this Bridge and even coins and plates at that time mention the same. Even various explorers have mentioned about this bridge during 1788 and 1804(to name a few) wherein it was mentioned that the bridge was connection Dhanuhkodi and Thalaimannar. It also finds a place in our ancient tamil literary works.

NASA has been doing exploration of earth, mars and various subjects for quite some time. Have they become a security risk just because they released the pictures of Ramar sethu.

It is better to be a laymen on this subject with the required awareness than be an enlightened person to say that Security of our country will improve after Sethu project where as it is widely acknowledged that the Security risk will be greater subsequent to this project and this has been stated by our Coast Guard and Navy. It is also an accepted fact that Large ships cannot pass through the canal.

It has been stressed repeatedly that the cost of the project (Rs. 2400 crores) will outweigh the benefits and this project does not make any nautical sense. It is a white elephant in the making.

[thamizhvaanan]

Nobody is trying to bring up the Ramar Bridge over the water which is possible only by natural process of water level receding. Where is the question of restoring it above the sea level.

We do not need NASA to remind us of our cultural ethos and heritage. There are clear cut historical and archaeological evidence for the existence of Ramar Sethu which has been brought out by various fora. These evidencs date back to our epigraphs wherein our ancient rulers have recorded about their visiting this Bridge and even coins and plates at that time mention the same. Even various explorers have mentioned about this bridge during 1788 and 1804(to name a few) wherein it was mentioned that the bridge was connection Dhanuhkodi and Thalaimannar. It also finds a place in our ancient tamil literary works.

NASA has been doing exploration of earth, mars and various subjects for quite some time. Have they become a security risk just because they released the pictures of Ramar sethu.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Cant stop laughing :rotfl2: Classic!!! :lol:

[Lambretta]

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Cant stop laughing :rotfl2: Classic!!! :lol:
U mean to say u dont believe the whole thing at all?? :? :huh: :oops:

PS: Ebbidi'keerai?? :P

[wrap07]

What I have mentioned are irrefutable evidences found in Archealogical survey of india records, Epigraphs of temples in Rameshwaram, Mysore, Tanjore and Kerala, records(olai suvadi) in Saraswathi Mahal Library in Thanjavur. I have seen them. The pictures of coins that were mentioned contain the name of sethu. Epigraphs also clearly mention about the bridge. Our ancient kings records the various events and happenings in epigraphs mostly in temples and places of importance. Any body with sincere interest, can always verify the same.

In the Aganaanooru Sangam literature text also, there is a reference to Sethu and there are hundreds of references to Rama. University of Chicago released Schwartzberg Atlas that have around 100 maps showing Sethu (in bracket, it is written Adam's Bridge) clearly and the maps are dated back to the seventh and the twelfth centuries.

Let us leave the religious part of it. Why should the project be pursued when the cost of the project will outweigh the benefits and why can't structure be allowed to remain intact which has significant advantages (explained earlier) and for the survival of people in west coast. What about the other points like ecological diaster and security risk. These facts are not religious beliefs but statements of experts in the respective field which can also be verified and available for easy access.

It is a fact that everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects.
Our ignorance or refusal to accept the truth about some issue cannot be brushed aside by laughing it off. Laughter is a good medicine for all the ills.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

[pizzalot]

So did the previous NDA Government approve the SS Project without properly evaluating the Security threat and Cost-Return ratio ? That is what you are telling us ? Now after all the planning and implentation they suddenly woke-up ? NDA was playing deaf to Aganaanooru Sangam literature ?

Are you saying that the bridge was actually constructed by Ram ? Even so do you think Ram did the right thing by putting mud and stones in such a large scale across the ocean for just bringing back one person ? Why did he do that ???? ? And even if did so did he want you to protect it forever and forever ? If he did that time for a purpose, dont we need this Project to come in place another purpose pondered for about 100 years in the minds of Tamils ?


Ramar sethu has saved the west coast and Kerala from total destruction during the ferocious Tsunami in 2004. This was mentioned by oceanographic and tsunami experts...White elephant ..
Kerala and West coast are on the Leeward side protected by mass of land between the East and West coasts. Ramar Sethu had nothing to do with saving the west coast.
So Rama's bridge saved people from Tsunami ? I thought several of them died. Why ??? Were they non-believers ? Last time Tsunami came from East. What if it comes from West this time ? If the shocks are not allowed to escape out because of Rama's bridge, the entire east coast areas will be wiped out ?!

Tell us more about your study on cost-benefit ratio. Compare it with the first railways in India. Or any new raodways. Are you saying the Operating cost will perpetually be higher than the prospective Operating Revenues and the project will never return your cost back ?

Everyone knows there is very little technicality in your argument and too mcuh politics. It is just a question of who takes credit to the project. NDA just wants to implement the project itself. Nothingelse. So you and your folks just dont take the whole thing to heart.

[thamizhvaanan]

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Cant stop laughing :rotfl2: Classic!!! :lol:
U mean to say u dont believe the whole thing at all?? :? :huh: :oops:

PS: Ebbidi'keerai?? :P

LOL.. I was not laughing to refute the stats that he mentioned, but just looking at how miserably he failed to read sarcasm in pizzalot's post cracked me up :lol:

I am fine kaakha :mrgreen:

[thamizhvaanan]

Let us leave the religious part of it. Why should the project be pursued when the cost of the project will outweigh the benefits and why can't structure be allowed to remain intact which has significant advantages (explained earlier) and for the survival of people in west coast. What about the other points like ecological diaster and security risk. These facts are not religious beliefs but statements of experts in the respective field which can also be verified and available for easy access.

Appo tsunami varadhuku munnadi indha project'a propose panni irundhal othukittu iruepeengala? :lol2: I wonder which expert performed the actual numerical analysis and concurred that west coast was saved by Ramar bridge. I am a layman in oceanography or any sort of graphies ... All I can see is that Tsunami came from south east, and ramar bridge is to the north of the peninsular tip. Wonder how it saved west coast :roll:

If the tsunami wave decides to hit southern kerala via ramar bridge, then it has chosen a very complicated route indeed.. :lol2: It has to travel north of Sri lanka, make a U turn, enter the passage between India and SL, after reaching Kanyakumari, make another U turn, pay a visit to Kerala. Indha rangela pochuna tsunami'ku driving license kodukalaam :lol2:

And not to forget that there is a simpler route from south of SL island, just a right turn to make to meet kerala south coast. But I read somewhere that Tsunami didnt hit south kerala coz it cant make sharp turns. But some ppl say that ramar bridge will save south kerala from the Z turn waves that tsunami can make.. :S ennanu solla ... :(

[Punnaimaran]

All these years, the fisherfolk of the southern coast have been opposing the project fearing loss of their livelihood. During this time the political parties including the BJP had supported the dredging of the canal, citing 'economic development'. But suddenly they have woken up to protect the bridge.

uyirulla manidhanin andrada uNavukku kidaikkAdha mariyadhai oru uyiratra pAlathirkku kidaikkum pozhudhu manam nOhathAn seihiRadhu !!

manidha nEyam madindhu vittadhA ?? alladhu madha nambikkai nam idhayangaLai moodivittadhA ??

[wrap07]

enthan oru madhathin kurikolum manithanai nalla muraiyil vaazha vaikkanthan. Manithanukku payanpadatha/udavatha entha madamum nilaikkathu. manithanin atthiavasiya thevaigalku piruguthan madhame. pasiyulla vayirukku unavuthaan thevai. madam piraguthan.
let me be understood correctly. madam/religion ithanil nambikkai illathathathaal oruvar thavaranavar alla. madathil nambikkai iruppathal mattumae sariyanavar aaga mudiyaathu. Evar nalvaizhiyil selkiraro avar mathikkapada vendiyavar. "Be good. Do good. That is the way to God" ithu oru old saying.

To devote your life to the good of all and to the happiness of all is religion. Whatever you do for your own sake is not religion-Swmi Vivekananda. I belelive in that. my posts are my humble opinions taken from what I have read and from the concern for human lives and cultural heritage only. If i am wrong, I am open to be corrected.

[wrap07]

Regarding Tsumani and ecological factor as also the cost factors, let me the post the articles I have read and if they are wrong, i am prepared to correct my opinion. I am no expert either.

[wrap07]

As the controversy refuses to die down, Contributing Editor Shobha Warrier spoke to oceanographer Prof Tad S Murty of the Department of Civil Engineering, University of Ottawa in Canada [Images], who is a world renowned expert on tsunamis. In an email interview, Prof Murty talks about the Sethu Samudram canal project and whether it poses a danger to the Kerala [Images] coast if another tsunami strikes.


You said in 2005 to rediff.com that there was a real threat to southern Kerala from future tsunamis in South East Asia. Do you still feel if such a tsunami happens next, it would be a real threat to Kerala?

Yes, my position has not changed. In the December 2004 tsunami, the very southern part of Kerala was not significantly impacted by the tsunami mainly for the following reason. Some of the tsunami energy propagated south of Sri Lanka and a part of it diffracted north and affected the middle part of Kerala.

Tsunami, being a long gravity wave, somewhat similar to tides and storm surges, can only take a wide turn, and in this process, missed the very southern part of Kerala. An analogy is like a car making a turn, a long car can only take a wide turn, while a short car can make a narrow turn.

The middle and northern parts of Kerala were also impacted to a certain degree by tsunami waves reflected from the Lakshadweep-Maldives Ridge as well as from the east coast of Africa.

Whatever may be the reason, significant tsunami energy did not propagate through the waters separating India and Sri Lanka during the December 2004 event and did not impact much the southern part of Kerala. Deepening and widening the Sethu canal, will provide a more direct route for some of the tsunami energy to travel and impact southern Kerala.

I will draw an analogy with what happened in the Alberni Canal (also called Alberni Inlet) on Vancouver Island, in the province of British Columbia, Canada, during the Alaska earthquake tsunami of March 28, 1964. Outside of the generation area (Alaska) the biggest tsunami amplitude of some 5.2 metres anywhere else in the entire pacific ocean, occurred, not at the open coast, but at Port Alberni located at the landward end of the Alberni Canal. This came as a surprise to all the scientists at that time, because the traditional wisdom at that time was the tsunami energy will dissipate as the tsunami moves away from the coast. This is generally true, for tsunamis propagating on land and inundating it. However, this need not be correct when the tsunami propagates inland through a water body, such as a channel, river or estuary.

In this sense, tsunamis are quite similar to storm surges, the largest amplitudes could occur some distance upstream in the water body. The reason for this is the so-called quarter wave resonance amplification. If the linear dimension of a water body roughly matches one-fourth of the wavelength of the incoming tsunami, then the tsunami amplitude inside the water body can increase through resonance.

In the 1964 event, the tsunami amplitude at the ocean end of the Alberni Canal (which is connected to the wider Barkley Sound) was about half a metre, but as the tsunami was propagating through the Alberni Canal, the amplitude increased to 5.2 metres through resonance. While no two water bodies are identical, there are certain similarities for me to feel that the Sethu Canal could amplify tsunamis during propagation. However, only a detailed numerical model can provide definitive and quantitative data on this process.

As a tsunami expert, would you advice the government of India to go ahead with the Sethu Samudram canal project?

So far the only official from the Government of India that approached me on this is Mr Raghupathy of the Tuticorin Port Trust. He invited me to meet him over lunch at some restaurant in Chennai. I do not remember the exact date, but I believe that it was in late 2005. We had a very cordial meeting and a pleasant discussion. Mr Raghupathy told me that he noted my concern and will look into it. When a Senior IAS Officer such as Mr Raghupathy tells me something, I believe him.


Is the Gulf of Mannar area tsunami prone?

Any water body can be tsunami prone from two sources, one from local sources and the second from distant sources, such as the 2004 event. I am not aware of any tsunami event in historical time from local sources. One of the recommendations I make (not just for the SSP) for general tsunami research in India, is to extend the tsunami database through paleo-tsunami studies on the coastlines of India. I understand that some research groups in India are already undertaking such studies.

Many archaeologists and environmentalist are against the project because they feel it will destroy the precious environment and also a centuries old structure like Ramar Sethu. The other day the World Monuments Fund, a US-based international preservation body that brings out the annual world monument watch list of endangered sites, has also come out in an open support of Ramar Sethu. What is your opinion on this?

In the ultimate analysis, it is really a political decision, taking into account all aspects (pros and cons). I am sure the archaeologists and environmentalists have studied the problem. As a physical oceanographer, it is beyond my expertise to comment on this, but I am satisfied that whatever decision the Government of India makes on this important project, will be the right one for the country.

[wrap07]

Sethusamudram, a project to create alternative shorter route for ships to cross the Gulf of Mannar, is a wonderful idea -- one which is more than 150 years old. The channel, originally an idea of a British commander named A D Taylor was put forth in 1860. In 1955, the Government of India set up the Sethusamudram project committee to look into the feasibility of the project and five routes were discussed till 2001 but nothing happened. The National Democratic Alliance government sanctioned a few crore rupees to study the project but before a final decision on the route could be taken, the government lost power.

The official web site of the project says, 'Ships originating from the west of India and destined for Chennai, Ennore, Vishakapatnam, Paradeep, Haldia and Kolkata have to travel around the Sri Lankan coast resulting in increase of travel distance and time. Apart from this ships belonging to Indian Navy and Coast Guard need also to traverse around Sri Lanka. In order to reduce the steaming distances between the east and west coast of India and to improve the navigation within territorial waters of India, a navigation channel connecting the Gulf of Mannar and Palk Bay through Adam's Bridge has been envisaged so that the ships moving between the east and west coasts of India need not go around Sri Lanka.' The total cost of the project is Rs 2,427 crores (Rs 24.27 billion).

But due to political expediency and a pathetic problem of a 'secular amnesia' about heritage matters, it has got a controversial hue, which could have been avoided if some transparency was maintained and points of collective sensitivities and faith were not ignored. The project is fine, but the present route is not, as it involves destruction of a bridge believed to have been built by Lord Rama and Muslims and Christians believe it to be Adam's creation.

Foreigners and Indians alike have described it as Rama's bridge since ancient times in their maps and travelogues. The first time someone called it Adam's Bridge was in 1804 by James Rennell, the first surveyor general of the East India Company. Even if the Government of India prefers to use the name Adam's Bridge, it simply proves that not only Hindus but Muslims and Christians too have a reverence for the bridge it is going to destroy.

Now when the media and political leaders are busy with the Uttar Pradesh election and exit polls, the Sethusamudram dredgers are busy destroying a great world heritage site India has.

The Ram Setu or Adam's Bridge connects India's Rameshwaram to Sri Lanka's Talaimannar. A movement has begun to safeguard it at the shores of Rameshwaram on April 18. Two former judges of the Supreme Court, Justice K T Thomas and Justice V R Krishna Iyer, none of them close to the saffron side, have warned the government against destroying the Ram Setu.

It is ironical that a government which changes the metro rail route to protect the Qutub Minar, built with the material of destroyed temples, stops a corridor to protect the Taj Mahal's surroundings and spends crores of rupees to showcase ancient potteries and jewellery in heavily guarded museums, is destroying a unique symbol of national identity and an icon well preserved in our minds since ages. Even a child knows that a bridge was built by the friends of Lord Rama using floating stones and Rama's army marched over it to Lanka to rescue Sita and destroy the evil regime of Ravana.

Hence during Dussehra every year and in dance dramas depicting Rama's life enacted across the globe, specially in East Asia, they never ever fail to mention the Setu Bandhan or the construction of Rama's bridge. Apart from the Ramayana, the Mahabharata also refers to the continued protection of Nala Setu following Sri Rama's command. Kalidasa's Raghuvamsham also refers to the Setu. So does the Skanda Purana (III 1.2.1-114), the Vishnu Purana (IV 4.40-49), the Agni Purana (V-XI), the Brahma Purana (138.1-40).

That is the memory so beautifully adopted by the Geological Survey of India in its logo, which describes India in this line etched at the bottom of its insignia -- Aasetu Himachal, meaning India is spread between the Bridge and the Himalayas. That is the Ram Setu Bridge on the southern tip of our motherland, an identity of the nation, under destruction now.

The credit of digging up material regarding the Ram Setu and providing impeccable factual content goes to Kalyan Raman, a former senior executive of the Asian Development Bank. He astounded even the government with his material on the entire project. His findings have stirred up protests from the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha. Ashok Singhal of the VHP is spearheading a movement to protect the Ram Setu. He addressed a big public meeting in Rameshwaram with religious heads and Dr Subramanian Swamy. BJP leader and former Union human resources development minister Dr Murli Manohar Joshi has written to the prime minister, urging him to stop the destruction of the great heritage site.

The government, very 'secular and fair' indeed, tries not to remember or give any credence to what Hindus, Muslims and Christians believe, But this is what NASA says about the bridge, 'Exploring space with a camera by NASA's [193] Gemini XI, this photograph from an altitude of 410 miles encompasses all of India, an area of 1,250 000 square miles,' George M Low, then the deputy director, Manned Spacecraft Center, NASA, notes. 'Bombay is on the west coast, directly left of the spacecraft's can-shaped antenna, New Delhi is just below the horizon near the upper left. Adam's Bridge between India and Ceylon, at the right, is clearly visible...' We can see the picture dramatically resembles the description given in Kalidasa's Raghuvamsham. Kalidasa wrote, (sarga 13): 'Rama, while returning from Sri Lanka in Pushpaka Vimaana told Sita: "Behold, Sita, My Setu of mountains dividing this frothy ocean is like the milky way dividing the sky into two parts".'

The Encyclopedia Britannica describes the bridge thus, 'Adam's Bridge also called Rama's Bridge, chain of shoals, between the islands of Mannar, near northwestern Sri Lanka, and Rameswaram, off the southeastern coast of India.'

Apart from such issues of heritage and belief, there are genuine concerns regarding security and the tsunamis' impact increasing in case the Ram Setu is destroyed. If the new channel is created through the present Rama's bridge, international ships would pass through it making a de facto international boundary between India and Sri Lanka, facilitating an increased alien presence, burdening our navy to a great extent.

So far the sea between India and Sri Lanka has been recognised as historic waters, though the United States has been pressurising to have it declared as international waters and said in a naval notification in 2005 that it does not accept the sea between India and Sri Lanka as 'historic'. The US declaration and the role of the Tuticorin Port Trust, the nodal agency to implement the Sethu Samudram Canal Project coupled with the haste with which the project was inaugurated, has given rise to many unanswered questions.

The US Navy operational directive refusing to accept the sea between India and Sri Lanka as 'historic' was made on June 23, 2005. The Prime Minister's Office sent some queries in March 2005 to N K Raghupathy, chief of the Tuticorin Port Trust. He sent answers to the PMO's queries on June 30, 2005 and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh with United Progressive Alliance Chairperson Sonia Gandhi inaugurated the project on July 2, 2005. Why were the queries sent to the TPT and not to an agency which had scientific authority to look into the geological and maritime aspects of the project? Why did the prime minister and the UPA chairperson rush to inaugurate the project without, prima facie, having the time to look into the answers given by the TPT chief? Why was the present route okayed which essentially requires the destruction of the Ram Setu, while other options, closer to Dhanushkodi, which did not touch the Ram Setu were ignored?

Local fishermen, Hindus, Muslims and Christians alike oppose the present route and are demanding alternative channels, which are available. They say the present channel would destroy marine life and corals. This will kill the trade in shankas (shells) that has a turnover in excess of Rs 150 crore (Rs 1.5 billion) per annum. Invaluable thorium deposits would be affected, which are too important for our nuclear fuel requirements.

Professor Tad Murthy, the world renowned tsunami expert, who advised the Government of India on the tsunami warning system and edited the Tsunami Journal for over 20 years, has also warned that the present Setu Samudram route may result in tsunami waves hitting Kerala more fiercely. In a reply to a query regarding the Sethusanmudram's impact, he wrote, 'During the Indian Ocean tsunami of December 26, 2004, the southern part of Kerala was generally spared from a major tsunami, mainly because the tsunami waves from Sumatra region travelling south of the Sri Lankan island, partially diffracted northward and affected the central part of the Kerala coast. Since the tsunami is a long gravity wave (similar to tides and storm surges) during the diffraction process, the rather wide turn it has to take spared the south Kerala coast. On the other hand, deepening the Sethu Canal might provide a more direct route for the tsunami and this could impact south Kerala.'

The issue concerns us all, and should be taken up as Indians, without getting entangled in party lines and political games. The Ram Setu or Adam's Bridge belongs to all humanity, being an important heritage site; hence the government should not allow it to become another issue affecting Hindu sensitivities. Nobody is opposing the Sethu Samudram Project, only a realignment of the route is being asked, as the present one destroys the Ram Setu.

[wrap07]

I am posting the articles that I have come across (the basis of my posting views on Tsunami and ecology) and it is not necessary that i subscrible to all the views in the newspaper clippings or articles. :D

[wrap07]

Will ships use canal at such costs?

K.S.Ramakrishnan

Former Deputy Chairman, Madras Port Trust

Madras Musings 1-16 July 2005



The basic justification of the Sethusamudram Ship Canal Project (SSCP) is that it will reduce the distance between Kolkata and Tuticorin by 340 nautical miles and between Chennai and Tuticorin by 434 nautical miles, thereby saving for the ships plying between these places both fuel cost and time involved in sailing the additional distance.


This justification will be readily valid if the SSC is a free seaway which ships can sail through without any payment to the project authority.


But the SSC can not be a free seaway… as ships will be allowed to pass through the canal only under regulated pilotage, and pushed /pulled by tugs belonging to the SSCP.


Obviously, even while saving on the cost of fuel, a ship passing through the canal will be expected to make a payment to the SSCP for using the facility.


The likely pilotage charge to be levied by the SSCP has not been made public, but an approximate figure can be guessed by extrapolating similar charges levied by the Chennai and Tuticorin Port at present.


The approach channel to the Chennai port has a length of 7 km. A 36,000 tonne coal ship calling at Chennai has to pay approximately Rs.21.75 a tonne, or a total of Rs.7.83 lakh, as pilotage charges averaging Rs.1.11 lakh per km.


Tuticorin's approach channel is only 2.4 km long and an identical coal ship calling at this port is levied Rs.17 a tonne, or a total of 6.12 lakh, towards pilotage, working out to Rs.3 lakh per km.
(The comparative lower rate per km at Chennai is because the capitol cost of digging the much older channel has been amortised a long time ago.)


The projected length of the Sethusamudram channel is 56 km. Both capital and recurring cost will be much higher for the SSCP than for the Chennai and Tuticorin ports, and its levy of pilotage per km is likely to be substantially higher than that of even the latter if it has to have a 9 per cent return on the capital.


Even if the Chennai rate is assumed, the same ship will have to pay over 60 lakhs to the SSCP for passing through the canal.


But the cost of fuel that will be saved by the same ship by taking the shorter route through the Sethusamudram canal instead of sailing round Sri Lanka will be less than Rs. 7 lakh, which is even less than 1/8 of SSCP's likely levy.


The saving in sailing time for that ship will also be substantially less than the 36 hours projected by the SSCP because the ship can not be towed through the canal at its normal speed through the canal, and the time will also be lost in embarkation/disembarkation of pilots and other inspection procedures. The saving in sailing time of just about a day will not justify the incurring of over 8 times the cost of fuel saved.

[wrap07]

Tsunami expert raises fears over Sethusamudram Canal
Interview with Professor Tad S. Murty

Interview with Prof G Victor Rajamanickam

Prof. Tad S. Murty is one of the most respected Tsunami Experts around the world; he advises the Government of Canada on Tsunamis and had played an important role in the development of the 'Baird' simulation model of the December 26th Tsunami. He was in the Editorial Board of the most prestigious Tsunami Journal "Science of Tsunami Hazards" for many years.

He along with Dr.Arun Bapat, had analysed the Tsunamis of the Indian Ocean in 1999.* He was in India this January to participate in the 'Brainstorming' Session on the Tsunami of 26th December organized jointly by Department of Science & Technology (DST), Department of Ocean Development (DOD), Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) and Indian National Science Academy (INSA) on 21-22 January, 2005 at New Delhi. Subsequently, when National Institute of Oceanography, Goa organised a National Workshop on Formulation of Science Plan for "Coastal Hazard Preparedness" on 18 - 19 February 2005, he set the tone for the workshop with his paper titled "Perspectives on Coastal Hazard Preparedness".

The following is an e-mail interview conducted with him by the Editor of this web portal on 7- 11 July 2005. The interview assumes its importance following the July 24, 2005 Nicobar 7.3 R Earthquake that had caused much panic. It also assumes its importance as the Expert Level discussion between India and Sri Lanka on the possible impact of the Sethusamudram Shipping Channel Project on the marine and coastal environments of both the countries is scheduled on 1 August 2005 at New Delhi.

* [" TSUNAMIS ON THE COASTLINES OF INDIA" Science of Tsunami Hazards Volume 17(3), 1999]

Question: Would you please tell me what you personally think about the reply given to the Prime Minister by Tuticorin Port Trust with regard to your critical opinion about the present alignment of the Sethusamudram Shipping Channel published in the Indian Express dated 18 January 2005?

Prof. Tad S.Murty: I would first of all share with you a bit of background on my slight involvement with Sethusamudram Shipping Channel Project.

In January 2005, I was in India as the tsunami expert on the delegation of Prime minister Paul Martin (Canada) visit to various Asian countries following the tsunami. On 18th January I was with the prime minister at a press briefing in Delhi.

Later some Indian express and Telegraph reporters spoke to me about SSCP and I made these comments. Earlier I was working on a paper on SSCP and was interested in the scientific aspects of the project.

In May Tuticorin Port Trust (TPT) sent me a fax dated early February asking for my comments and said that the project is finalized by end of Feb and they wanted my comments within 24 hours. I replied to Mr. Raghunadh (IAS officer) ( read: Mr.Ragupathy - Editor ) that I received his fax only in May and possibly I cannot reply by mid-Feb. I sent a page explaining why the eastern entrance of the channel should be re-oriented.

After a few days I received a reply saying that his experts outright dismissed my idea as ridiculous and has absolutely no merit. I did not do anything after this, as I have no official involvement. If you include my student days in the Andhra University and later at the university of Chicago, I have more than 45 years of experience with tsunamis worldwide and I know what I am talking about.

I cannot understand why Tuticorin Port Trust could not find me when everyone else can find me. The Indian Express newspaper article clearly says that I was staying at the Taj Palace hotel in Delhi and will be there for another week or so. Question: How do you react to Tuticorin Port Trust's statement that the suggestion you had made with respect to the present alignment of the Channel and its possible chance of acting as a conduit to future tsunamis, thus paving way to causing damage to South Kerala coast as untenable? Prof. Tad S.Murty: Tuticorin Port Trust (TPT) of course can draw whatever conclusions they want to. I feel that the Bay of Bengal entrance of the present orientation of the channel will undoubtedly funnel tsunami energy into the channel and this will meet the tsunami traveling from south of Sri Lanka at the southern part of Kerala and through constructive interference will augment the tsunami wave amplitudes. The southern part of Kerala was not much impacted by the 26th December 2004 tsunami mainly because the tsunami that arrived from the Indian Ocean has to diffract around Sri Lanka, which necessarily has to take a very wide turn (because tsunamis are long gravity waves and cannot bend as easily as short waves, just like a big car versus a mini. A mini cut corners, but a big car has to take very wide turns.) and missed south Kerala.

It is very easy to show that the SSCP channel with a depth of 12m will indeed provide another route for the tsunami and the energy will be directed towards south Kerala. I have no official connection with the SSCP, only a scientific curiosity plus my concern that south Kerala will be put at risk in future. I do not worry that TPT does not think much of my ideas or me. I do not have to justify myself to TPT. I have to fight my battles, not with TPT but in the field of peer reviewed international scientific journals.

To summarize, a re-orientation of the eastern entrance of the channel towards northwest will fix the tsunami problem. Why this concerns me is a parallel example in the Alberni canal on Vancouver Island, British Columbia province of Canada. In the March 28th 1964 Alaska earthquake tsunami, outside of Alaska, the largest tsunami amplitude was at the head of the Alberni canal well inland and not at the open coast as everyone expected. Later when I joined the Canadian Oceanographic Service, I explained this as due to quarter wave resonance amplification.

The SSP canal has many characteristics similar to the Alberni canal, and this is the reason I am concerned. Question: The Detailed Project Report prepared by L&T - Ramboll has finalized the location of the dumping sites for the dredged materials.

They are located in Bay of Bengal and Gulf of Mannar and have a depth ranging from 30 to 40 km. These sites happen to lie just north of and south of the entrance and exit of the channel. What are the chances for these sites to remain safe and stable during the time of a future tsunamis and cyclones? Also, what are the chances for them to be carried over into the channel in the event of future tsunamis and cyclones?

Prof. Tad S.Murty: I need to do some back of the envelope calculations to precisely answer your question, which I will do in a few days. However, my initial intuition is that the dumping sites will not be completely stable, especially if they happen to be in the path of the tsunami waves. They may be relatively stable from the cyclones and storm surges, since these do not cause much bottom scouring like tsunamis. The safety issue arises if they are contaminants, especially radioactive contaminants.

Again, I need to do a back of the envelope type computation for a definite answer, again my intuition is that the cyclone and storm surge effects will be less as compared to tsunamis. Certainly tsunamis have the potential to pull all this material back into the channel, if the orientation is right.

The basic question I will attempt to answer through an analytical analysis is simply this. Would storm surges and tsunamis have the energy to move the dredged material back into the channel? As I said earlier, my present feeling is, storm surges probably will not move much material, but tsunamis definitely would. I will try to quantify this in a couple of days.

As per the TPT's conclusion that no re-orientation of the eastern entrance of the channel is required, I absolutely disagree with it. I do not need to analyze that any more.

I have analyzed I now have more definite answers to your questions.

In spite of what the TPT says, there is a real threat to southern Kerala from future tsunamis from SSP.

At this time I do not have the resources to actually do a numerical model to determine the quantitative aspects of the movement aspects of the dredged material.

(However) I did some analytical analysis of whether cyclones (and storm surges) and tsunamis can move the dredged material from Palk Bay into the channel.

The impact from cyclones and storm surges will be minimal, but tsunamis can move a significant amount of the dredged material into the channel.

i won't :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: it is a shame to do that. i will :(

[wrap07]

Navigating through SSCP NOT cost-effective: Capt. Balakrishnan

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2299884/SSCP-voyages-Fuel-Costs-and-Savings

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2297802/SSCP-Time-Savings-for-voyages

These two spreadsheets have been computed by Capt. Balakrishnan. The facts brought out are revealing and speak for themselves.

The conclusions put in question the assertions made in Setu project reports and in Baalu Committee report that SSCP will be a profit-making venture.

Out of a total voyage time ranging from 54.75 (Kochi-Chennai) to 261.0 (Aden to Kolkata), the savings in time range from 15.25 hours to 26.9 hours.

Fuel Cost savings, say, Rs. 5,55,069.1 for a voyage from Tuticorin to Kolkata will be offset by "Pilotage Charges".At the rates levied in Major Ports, the Pilot Charges could be as heavy as Rs. 50 lakhs per voyage. The conclusion is: "It is probable that circumnavigating Sri Lanka would be more cost effective."

These two spreadsheets put a big question mark on the financial viability of the project. Even by its own admission, the Committee has noted that Project authorities have erred in computing the navigable distance through the proposed Channel.

If additional security costs are taken into account, say, for the acquisition of naval vessels needed for coast-guarding the shallow (12 mt. Deep) mid-ocean channel, the project will not only be a white elephant for the nation, but also be a sick unit from day one and for a long, long time.

Hopefully, the justice system will take note of the claims made by the Govt. of India which are not based on facts and issue an injunction to scrap the project..

[wrap07]

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/oct/

'The Sethu Samudram does not make nautical sense'

October 01, 2007

Continuing our series on the Sethu Samudram Shipping Canal Project, Shobha Warrier speaks to Captain (retired) H Balakrishnan of the Indian Navy to know a mariner's view of the project. Captain Balakrishnan has been associated with the navy for 32 years. He was one of the first batch of three Indian naval officers to do specialisation in anti-submarine warfare in the erstwhile USSR Naval War College. Out of interest, he did a study on the Sethu Samudram Shipping Canal Project from a mariner's point of view. Ever since the series appeared in the Indian Express, the captain has been much sought after for his interesting calculations.


Why did you get interested in the Sethu Samudram Shipping Canal Project?
I don't belong to any political party. It was purely a mariner's interest that made me research the project. There were many reports and statements in the media but I found that the mariner's point of view was not talked about at all. It is sad that even today the entire discourse on the project has got completely side tracked from the main issue; that is, the project is for ships and the shipping industry. As a mariner, how do you describe the Sethu Samudram project? The Sethu Samudram project, if I can put it simply from a mariner's stand point, does not make any nautical sense.

Why do you say so?
I have worked on the project from three different perspectives, all concerning the nautical world. I analysed the project in the backdrop of the environmental factors that would impinge the safety of the ship and also the safety of lives at sea. Number two was the security aspects which is maritime terrorism as it stands today. And the third was certain aspects of general navigation.

What does your research on the environmental factors say?
We mariners call the coast between Rameswaram and Cuddalore the cyclone coast. The India Meteorological Department has assigned this coastline as a high risk probability. To site one example, in 1964, the Pamban Bridge was washed away by a severe cyclonic storm.

A ship is safe when she is moving at the onset of a cyclone. Imagine a ship waiting to pick up its pilot as it approaches the Palk Straits to enter Sethu Samudram. No captain will wait for the pilot; his safety lies in heading south, towards Sri Lanka.

The wind and waves bring in a large amount of silt and wash it ashore. The same thing is going to happen to the Sethu Samudram Canal. This brings me to another point. Marine scientists have identified five areas on the Indian coastline they call high-sinkage pits, and one of them happens to be the Palk Straits. What is left unsaid by the Sethu Samudram authorities is that maintaining the 12 metre depth (of the channel) will entail round the year dredging. Once you establish the channel, you have to maintain it. You mean other than the capital expenditure, there will be maintenance expenditure too. Will that be expensive? Naturally. But this cost is not mentioned anywhere. This is the hidden cost which the authorities will have to pay to the dredging company. It is a high siltation and sedimentation area. So, what you pick up today is going to get filled up the next day.

What is the security threat you spoke about?
The Sea Tigers of the LTTE have control of that area off the Jaffna coast. What the Sea Tigers may do is difficult to say. Piracy exists even today.
Those who are against the project say the 12 metre depth of the Canal is not enough for big ships to pass through the canal.

As a mariner, what is your opinion on this?
It is quite true. If you take global shipping trends today, to reduce operating cost, they go in for larger ships of the order of 60,000 deadweight tonnes and above. A 60,000 deadweight tonne carrier will need anything in excess of 17 metres of draft. And as far as tankers go, the days of the super tanker are gone and you see only very large crude carriers of the type of 150,000 and 185,000 tonnes. It makes more sense to have such big tankers as in one voyage, you are bringing in more cargo and reduce your operating cost. None of these big ships will ever be able to use the Sethu Samudram.

So, the question is, for whom are you building the canal?
30,000 tonnes was alright when Sethu Samudram was conceived in the early fifties and the sixties. That leaves you with only the coastal bulk carriers that carry coal from Kolkata, Paradeep and Visakhapatanam to Chennai or Tuticorin.

How much time and money are saved if the ships go through the Sethu Samudram Canal instead of going round Sri Lanka?
I plotted physically on a chart what we call 'passage planning' for a bulk carrier on passage as it happens today from Kolkata to Tuticorin; one of them circumnavigating Sri Lanka as is happening today and the other one going through the canal. The voyage distance from Kolkata to Tuticorin around Sri Lanka works out to 1227 nautical miles. If you went through the canal, it is 1098 nm. So, you are saving just 120 odd nm.

The story doesn't end there. The majority of our bulk carriers go at a speed between 12 and 13 knots. That is the average speed at sea. I have checked with my friends who currently sail. They all said they do 12 knots. However, I worked in a bracket of 12-15 knots. So, if you are going around Sri Lanka at 12 knots at constant speed at sea, the time taken to reach outer anchorage at Tuticorin is 102 hours and 15 minutes. When you go through Sethu Samudram, the point to be remembered is, you cannot proceed at the speed at which you are sailing at sea. The reason is the shallow water effect or what we call the 'Squat Effect'. So, the moment you enter Sethu Samudram, you have to reduce the sped by 50 per cent or more depending on the conditions prevailing at that particular time. So, I worked on a speed bracket of 6-8 knots. But many of my friends tell me 8 knots is too high for a 30,000 tonne bulk carrier. In all my calculations, I gave the benefit of doubt to the Sethu Samudram project.

The second aspect is, it is not an open seaway; it is like entering a port. A pilot boards the ship, who is a local mariner with greater knowledge of the marine environment. The same thing has to be done at Sethu Samudram also. I have given one hour delay for the ship to reduce speed for the pilot to climb aboard. You repeat the process at the other end too for him to disembark.

With this 6 knots speed and 2 hours pilotage delay, my time to Tuticorin via Sethu Samudram works out to 100 hours 30 minutes. If you went around Sri Lanka, it is 102 hours 15 minutes! So, your net savings in time by going through Sethu Samudram is 1 hour 45 minutes! Is it worth spending Rs 2,400 crore to save 1 hour 45 minutes? You spoke of travel time. What about the cost?
The Sethu Samudram project from the media reports and the statement given by the finance minister will cost at Rs 2,400 crore, of which Rs 971 crore is through a special purpose vehicle. The debt portion has been pegged at Rs 1,465 crore. Assuming an interest burden of 10 per cent, the interest payment on Rs 1,465 crore is Rs 146 crore per annum. Twenty to 25 years is the time given for repayment.

Assuming 25 years for Rs 1,465 crore, capital repayment works out about 56 crore per annum. So, Rs 146 crore for interest burden and Rs 56 crore as repayment works out to roughly Rs 204 crore per annum which is what the authorities will have to repay to any financial institution. This is only to break-even. But the web site says it is a profitable industry and it is going to make 'mammoth profit'.

As the earning is going to come only from ships, I asked, how many ships are going to transit in a year through the canal?
Ships that can use the canal will be coal carrying bulk carriers as long as the Tuticorin thermal power plant exists. Having made the calculation, I feel they are rather optimistic in their figures. They have given a mean value of about 3,055 ships meant to use the canal in the year 2008 and by the year 2025, they expect it to go to in excess of 7,000 ships. Mind you, for 12 metres of depth! But I can't see more than 1,000 ships using the Sethu Samudram canal in a year.

If you take Rs 204 crore as annual repayment, and 1,000 ships use it, your per ship cost works out to Rs 22 lakhs pilotage charge to break even. There is an interesting comparison done by K S Ramakrishnan, former deputy chairman, Chennai Port Trust. He pegs around Rs 50 lakh as pilotage rate per ship if you have to make a; profit.

Then I calculated the fuel consumed. These ships consume 1 metric tonne of fuel per hour, which costs Rs 24,000. For the Sethu Samudram canal, you have to add the pilotage cost too. In effect, if a ship goes through the canal, a shipping company loses Rs 19 lakh per voyage. It is more cost effective to circumnavigate Sri Lanka from the point of view of the shipping industry.

Therefore, neither are you saving time nor is it viable economically. These are the two aspects that need to be highlighted. So, there is absolutely no advantage to the ships and the shipping industry. So, what are we gaining by spending Rs 2,400 crore of tax payers' money? It is a white elephant in the making.

So, you must be against realignment which some political parties are talking about. Any course, any realignment, is going to prove uneconomical to the shipping industry. If it is of no use to the shipping industry, why build it? You can bring about better economic progress to the southern districts of Tamil Nadu by building expressways. That is why I say the Sethu Samudram shipping canal project makes no nautical sense. That is the tragedy of the project.

Those who support the Sethu Samudram Canal compare it to the Suez Canal and the Panama Canal and say the Sethu Samudram is the Suez of the East. In the case of the Suez and the Panama canals, ships save thousands of nautical miles in sailing distance and hundreds of hours in sailing time vis-&-vis the Sethu Samudram where a ship will probably save a few hundred miles and at the most twohours in sailing time. This is the difference.

Peace is doable.

[pizzalot]

What you are saying is the most funniest of all Hindutva bafoon's propaganda. I cant believe am responding seriously. A few years before when I first read about the issues by RSS and VHP I was laughing. But now I am crying. How people can talk so seriously without laughing ? Are they retards ? It was onething for Snake Charmers' country to believe in these things and completely another for IT Hub of the world to believe these things like Rama constructed etc etc. Well atleast Subramaniam Swamy has become rich now.

Do you know any project needs clearance from Ministry of Environment & Forests ? National Environment Engineering Research Institute, Nagpur (NEERI), studied the Project before the scheme was created by the Center. Since the Project is close to International Waters even the Ministry Of Defence was consulted and a No-Objection obtained. All that by the NDA Government not the current one. (Are you saying that ships from Chennai to Mumbai need to go about Colombo and International waters and feel secure in International Waters rather than in our own ?) So the "Security" and "Environment" issues holds no water.

Dont you even worry about the "Cost-Benefit ratio". It is all being taken care of.

The only thing left in your argument is religion. Christians and Muslims do not have any problem with this Project. Probably we will name this as Adam Sethu Project or Noah's Project and they will be ok. But the Hindutvadis .. The Hindutvadis claimed that "the Bridge was Man-Made according to NASA". NASA itself said not. The so called brindge is no more than a pile of sand remenescant of a connection of land mass between Sri Lanka and India. Lies lies lies ! Why bring NASA and all here and then get humiliated ? You were telling people since age old days. With science do you think your stories will stand ?

Even assuming that Ram and other monkeys constructed the Sethu ..(?) what makes this piece of sand so special (all of a sudden after the announcement of the project) ? After-all Ram was walking from North to South enroute to Sri Lanka. So will you close all the roads and railways constructed along the way from North to South ? Will you declare every piece of rock and soil between North and South as religious and pigrimage center ?

I have just proved to you based on my above points that the opposition to the Sethu Project is for none other than political. The request for realignment etc etc is nothing but to delay the implementation of the project by another few years or so. I think people here are not as dumb as people from other places. They plainly see through the design.

May be the Government of India is only helping you to go and perform your pooja more easily. Subramaniyam Swamy says he goes there by boat and performs pooja. After the completion of the project not just him, all of us can go in a ship and perform the poojas.

Rama has really helped us to understand who is who now. :) Thank you Rama.

[wrap07]

First of all, go through my earlier posts carefully before coming up with Hindutva analysiss. I have mentioned that I am posting the articles/news that I came across which made me post about this project reg ecology/Tsunami and I am not subscribing to other issues in the articles. The articles or news may contain political affiliations which is totally irrelevant to the issue .

I am of the very strong opinion that Rama or for that matter any God does not require political patronage and on the contrary, the political parties are using religion only for their political purposes and we need not bother about them.

Now your post.
Sure. We should not believe the truth contained in the epigraphs, inscritptions and related records for this Ramar Sethu. But, we should believe the records of some kings/rulers when it suits us. Fine.

Clearance for the project was given by the agencies you are mentioning which I believe and any sensible person would understand, are part of Government of India. When those departments are under the Government, it is quite understood that they have to obey their masters or else those officials will forced to make a compulsory tour of our nation, by way of posting.

Why politics is brought in this. Did I ever mention that I talk on behalf of NDA . Who said that all done by NDA is right and current dispensation is otherwise. NDA takes the first blame for starting this project without seeing the pros and cons. All parties use some issue to keep them in public domain. Who cares for them. This is totally unwarranted in this topic. That comes out of your prejudiced mindset that whoever who opposes this project are so called Hindutava Brigade. What nonsense is this.

Just some one believes in god and believes in the cultural values and traditions, will he be branded as representing some party. If you read my previous posts(which u have not done apparently), in response to a post, I had clearly mentioned that Religion is meant for human betterment and I had quoted Swmi Vivekananda also( who I believe will be secular and not be brandished as Hindutva Baffon).

I am also made to realize that the oceanographic expert/navy experts whoever is talking about the negatives of this Project are Hindutva forces and they are not secular.

You are absolutely right when you said that cost-benefit ratio is being taken care of. Sure. Those concerned and those connected are taking care of things and all kinds of things.

Sure. NASA has gone back on its word. Wait till some time. You may see an announcement that the picture of bridge taken and released by them was actually taken from South Africa or Mars.

I also understand that by telling the stories of Ram, people have been waylaid and of course, the best example of this is Mahathma Gandhi who without any sense advocated for Ram Rajya( I shudder to think how the father of our nation will be branded) and who repeatedly insisted, unless, Ram Rajya is achieved, the Independence we have achieved is not complete. Not only that, there were scores and scores of senseless/shameless followers of this great soul who believed only what he said and who were waylaid by him.

Whether one place is special or extra special or extraordinary special depends on one’s own faith. If the bridge is used /cut for a good cause, real good cause meant for betterment, It should not be an issue for right thinking souls.

I am amazed by your interest to go and perfom pooja at the divine place. You should personally contact subramaniam swamy and ask him to arrange for a trip. Because nowadays, you know, the non-beleivers who make fun of all Gods go to temple of their choice or place of divinity without the knowledge of others and even temple will be kept closed during their visits. This type of scientific pooja and worship is worth emulating. Normal temple going stupid souls are from stone age.

Rama has helped not only you but millions of people to realise. See the beauty. Though you don’t accept the presence of the bridge or even Rama himself, he has made you to utter his name repeatedly. Rama (for that matter any God in any other form) does not differentiate. You may not care a damn about him but He is like a Mother who does not differentiate between children though some one may be affectionate/otherwise. You are so gracious to say Thank you,. Unfortunately, Rama cannot, say No mention please, since his presence is doubtful as per your science.

[Punnaimaran]

Dear wrap07,

For a change why don't you go to this link and read for yourself the other side of the story.

http://sethusamudram.info/content/view/16/26/

Regards
Punnaimaran

[wrap07]

Dear Punnaimaran,

Thanks a lot for your gesture. I will certainly go through the link and get to know the other views.


with kind regards
wrap

[pizzalot]

[tscii:ff2ba33cd9]

Rama has helped not only you but millions of people to realise. See the beauty. Though you don’t accept the presence of the bridge or even Rama himself, he has made you to utter his name repeatedly. Rama (for that matter any God in any other form) does not differentiate. You may not care a damn about him but He is like a Mother who does not differentiate between children though some one may be affectionate/otherwise. You are so gracious to say Thank you,. Unfortunately, Rama cannot, say No mention please, since his presence is doubtful as per your science.
You are absolutely correct. Rama will care about me no matter what. I am pretty sure about it. He does not want us to "take care of him". All he wants is we be taken care of. Has the epic anywhere asked you to protect "the bridge that Rama built" as a monument forever and ever ? Why are you imposing the burden on the common man ? He built it for his own personal reasons. Did he build it for the people ? Why are you expecting us to cherish the sethu then ? Now if the epic tells me that he has rescued a common man from a terrorist abroard then that kind of a thing will instill awe and inspiration in me. But all I heard was his kingdom was lost, his wife was kidnapped, and the monkeys helped him restore her, his vanavas was done and he got his kingdom back. It is all about him. Little reading on the Web about his public life did not convince me much to adulate him as an adult. Now where can I see the love that you say he has on a common man ? Sorry Mr Wrap. I did not get you. [/tscii:ff2ba33cd9]

[pizzalot]

Clearance for the project was given by the agencies you are mentioning which I believe and any sensible person would understand, are part of Government of India. When those departments are under the Government, it is quite understood that they have to obey their masters or else those officials will forced to make a compulsory tour of our nation, by way of posting.

You are asking us not to trust the Government, the agencies, ASI, NASA .. then believe in who ? You ? So unfair. Anyway.. I am all yours now. Don't be too cruel to me please. :lol2:

In any case do you endorse "the alternative alignment" proposal or not ? If so how can we believe that the new proposal is Environment and Religion friendly ? What if another group comes up with somethingelse ? Or you are saying we must dismiss the Sethu project altogether ?

Also you owe an explanation why you think the Government came up with this project if the project is anti-religious, anti-environment, un-economical. Are you suspecting a conspiracy here ? If so, to benefit who and how ? If , with the alternative proposal the project could be so easily established without a tint , then why should the Government take all the risks to implement the project in the current place ? To me and many others it only looks like the ignorance or mischief is from the part of the opposition (I mean people who oppose the Project)

[Sudhaama]

.
. Rama-Sethu a FLOATING BRIDGE... as per Ramayana!!

(1) According to Valmiki Ramayana and Kamba- Ramayana.. Rama-Sethu bridge constructed by Rama's
Military-forces..

...was only a FLOATING-BRIDGE...unsupported by Sea-Bed...

..since was laid down by one Monkey named NALHA.. who had such mystic powers.. that whatever he places on water could FLOAT.

Valmiki further states.. that Rama built-up the Bridge by means of His ARROWS.

(2) According to Valmiki Ramayana... Rama did penance on DHARBA-SAYANA (Lying down of Dharba-gras bed)

...at a place named Sethu... and Samudra-raja rushes to Him and assures his co-operation to ensure the Floating-bridge unaffected by Sea-waves.

That holy place in Tamilnadu... named SETHU alias..THIRU- PULLANHAI... still exists...

...from where only the Rama-sethu Bridge was built towards Lanka. At that time the two coasts were too close.

There exists a GRAND OLD Rama Temple with the Sthala-puranha tallying with both Valmiki and Kamban.

(3) Whereas the Rameswaram Sthala-puranam does not tally nor conforms to any authentic puranas including Valmiki and Kamba Ramayanas.

...While it is claimed that Rama came to this place.. made a Siva-Linga and worshipped.

(4) Hindus and Budhists as well as the Govt of Srilanka believe that the according to their reliable History..

... Ravana's Capital of his Lanka's Kingdom was close to the present Tourist spot named NUWARA ALIA... located in the Southern Sri-Lanka.

... which was the Ashoka Vana...where the Goddess Seetha was made to be seated... they say.

The tourist-guides there show to the Tourists... one large ashoka tree of Phenomenal features...

... unusual and unique on Botanical grounds...

..whereunder Seetha was made to be seated. We are unable to disbelieve it, basing on their justifications.

Now Nuwara Alia is a pilgrim centre for Hindus...

...quite far away from the so called Adam's bridge.

Rama with His forces would not have entered Lanka from North.. but only on its West coast.

...which means that the Adams Bridge... has NO RELATIONS...

...nor any SIGNIFICANCE with Rama-sethu.
.

[wrap07]

i humbly request you to kindly go through my posts before coming with juggleries. I do not expect people to beleive me for that matter anyone unless one is convinced of that and you are free to have your own thoughts based on science. My beliefs are based on what I have read and heard which as per your science may not be acceptable.

Talking about agnecies, they kept changing the views about this issue which is well known and need not be elaborated.





Whether one place is special or extra special or extraordinary special depends on one’s own faith. If the bridge is used /cut for a good cause, real good cause meant for betterment, It should not be an issue for right thinking souls.



By not reading the above post, you are talking about so called ignorance or mischief. If you had not read that post it is ignorance and if you had read it, still asking questions it is mischief :lol2:

Dear friend, I have no issues with the project as long as it is good and proven to be good which I had already explained.

Regarding greatness of Rama, I was impressed by his selfless attitude and proving that though a normal human being may face numerous problems, by strict adherence to truth,sacrifice, values (according to their position), a man can achieve greatness. This is my humble opinion and I am not a great scholar to explain further.
oru sol.. oru vill. oru ill. defines Rama.
I also know that others may see it differently and I dont have a problem with that.

[Punnaimaran]

Regarding greatness of Rama, I was impressed by his selfless attitude and proving that though a normal human being may face numerous problems, by strict adherence to truth,sacrifice, values (according to their position), a man can achieve greatness.

:thumbsup:

[pizzalot]

Wrap.. please do not take it personally when I used the words like ignorance or mischief. Btw there are people on either camps who talk things like that just for mischief. My harsh words were meant only for people like them.

Also your dialog
"oru sol.. oru vill. oru ill. defines Rama." is nice. May be Rajnikant or Vijay can word it in their films.

[pizzalot]

Wrap.. please do not take it personally when I used the words like ignorance or mischief. Btw there are people on either camps who talk things like that just for mischief. My harsh words were meant only for people like them.

Also your dialog
oru sol.. oru vill. oru ill. defines Rama. is nice. May be Rajnikant or Vijay can word it in their films

[thamizhvaanan]

Enakku orey sandhegam,

sudhaama, do you really believe that once upon a time bridges floated? :roll:

[pizzalot]

Excellent and very interesting observation by Sudhama. The stones were supposed to float.

It is being claimed that the structure that is seen under the ocean is indeed the remains of the bridge. How did the stones that were floating cease to float ? Can you quote from Ramayan anything on how the stones sunk ?

Coming to the Project. What is the Project destroying if the bridge that was once constructed is already sunk inside the ocean ? What do we need to preserve now ? The remains ? The remains of what ? If the original bridge was made of floating stones what is remaining now as remains under the ocean ??

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:43e778bcf7].
Ram-Sethu an UNJUSTIFIABLE.. FALSE CLAIM.!!


Enakku orey sandhegam,

sudhaama, do you really believe that once upon a time bridges floated? :roll:

Why me alone.?... You can question yourselves and find the Answer.

If you are prepared to believe and accept… that just with Bows and Arrows driven by chanting the respective Manthras...

...they could attack their targets at even hundreds of miles away…

...You can believe this too… an INCREDIBLE MYSTERY of Thretha-Yuga…

...with the different means of the current Yardstick of Kaliyuga people.

If you can believe that one Pushpaka Vimana of Kubera robbed by Ravana.. came to the custody of Rama...

...and that divine Aeroplane could fly in the sky carrying Rama’s team to Ayodhya… without any Fuel (!)

…You can believe this too.

Similarly several other quotable Quotes… in Ramayana and Mahabharatha…

…the Epics of Manthric era…. Quite alien to our present age…

...INACCESSIBLE to our Reasoning.!!... and INDIGESTIBLE by our Wisdom.!!!


Excellent and very interesting observation by Sudhama. The stones were supposed to float.

It is being claimed that the structure that is seen under the ocean is indeed the remains of the bridge. How did the stones that were floating cease to float ? Can you quote from Ramayan anything on how the stones sunk ?

Coming to the Project. What is the Project destroying if the bridge that was once constructed is already sunk inside the ocean ? What do we need to preserve now ? The remains ? The remains of what ? If the original bridge was made of floating stones what is remaining now as remains under the ocean ??

Dear “pizza lot”… You would not have raised this question… if you have really gone through my analytical posting properly. Please read once again…and then ask me if there arises any question.

However to clarify in brief...

(1) I am a staunch believer of Vedic values… especially the Great Rama the God-incarnation. So I am in no way lesser by the amount and degree of devotion, faith and sincerety on the matter than anybody...

... who NOW ONLY make a FALSE CLAIM as Ram-Sethu.

(1)The existing Adam’s Bridge cannot be Ram-sethu as analysed in my posting above. Rama entered Lanka only through its West coast near their present Nuwara Alia town…

...which sea-coast was very close to Tamilnadu coast at Sethu named “Thiruppullaani” (Thiru-Pul Anai) existing now too in India…

Rama at the temple here is named as Pattaabhiraman alias DHARBA-SAYANA Rama….

Valmiki says that Rama prayed to Samudhra Raja only from here….and made his bridge to Lanka.

(2)Samudra Raja’s commitment was only for a TEMPORARY BRIDGE…

...as a Floating access through Sea-surface…. Just to serve the timely need of to and fro. And not beyond.

So Samudra Raja must have immediately disbanded the Floating bridge of that REAL Ram-sethu…

...as otherwise it would have become vulnerable, by means of counter-access for any Enemy from Lanka to Bharatham country subsequently…

...on which Samudra-raja would not like to become culpable.

(3)Thus the location of real Ram-sethu is far away and far different from the Adam’s bridge. Even taking it granted… any Floating bridge cannot settle down just beneath the same location… under the same alignment taking into account of the Currents of the Sea-waves from different directions...

..but would get SCATTERED by individual stone pieces alongwith felled logs of Trees... bound without any mortar... as vital for a stone bridge.

That too for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.!!!

So we are able to believe… that the Adam’s bridge is just a natural formation by the accumulation of sand CLOSEBY at the sea-bed…

...driven by coastal waves from both the coasts opposite…

…as claimed by the Geologists and Archaelogists.

…and has NOTHING TO DO… with the so named Ram-Sethu.
.
[/tscii:43e778bcf7]

[pizzalot]

Hats off Sudhama ! So technically no one should be offended with Sethu Project ! If the the project is renamed to somethingelse instead of "Sethu" in it there will not have been any confusion !

Proposal for Sethu Samudhram Canal Project is a very old one originally proposed by the British Marine Engineer Comm.A.D.Taylor of British Marines in 1890. The project had gone through more than nine committees and detailed studies have been conducted on economic and environmental impacts. All these happened between 1890 and 1922. Investment was what was lacking. 5 more commitees went through the project after Independence during Nehru as PM. Under the chairmanship of Sir A.Ramaswamy Mudaliar in 1956 it took the final shape of Sethu Samudran Canal Project. The project was again sleeping until revived ambitiously by AB Vajpayee. Kudos to him.

Now that it is being implemented by another Government they want to create trouble so as increase their catch.

Politicians ! Politicians !

[Sudhaama]

.
But... I do not BELIEVE nor support this Proposal of SEA-CANAL

...since TECHNICALLY Convinced as Baseless Theoretical Goose-aim..

...and the Reality will be FAR FROM THE PURPOSE & GOAL


Hats off Sudhama ! So technically no one should be offended with Sethu Project ! If the the project is renamed to somethingelse instead of "Sethu" in it there will not have been any confusion !

Proposal for Sethu Samudhram Canal Project is a very old one originally proposed by the British Marine Engineer Comm.A.D.Taylor of British Marines in 1890. The project had gone through more than nine committees and detailed studies have been conducted on economic and environmental impacts. All these happened between 1890 and 1922. Investment was what was lacking. 5 more commitees went through the project after Independence during Nehru as PM. Under the chairmanship of Sir A.Ramaswamy Mudaliar in 1956 it took the final shape of Sethu Samudran Canal Project. The project was again sleeping until revived ambitiously by AB Vajpayee. Kudos to him.

Now that it is being implemented by another Government they want to create trouble so as increase their catch.

Politicians ! Politicians !

[pizzalot]

Sudhama .. you never know.

Do not evaluate a project based on the existing demand. Once it is laid out you will see new oppurtunities getting created. New use will emerge. When humans invented computer, we thought the machine will be demanded only for computing. Today they are used widely for other purposes like means of cimmunication, media players and even in cars for driving control. Same way the project should be evaluated creatively. In the 60s South India was NOT a automobile hub. Now it is one. What is so wrong in opting for the sea means of transportation ?

Those who disown the project should think twice. Because chances of it succeeding is expected to be at a big level. We are talking about another Singapore in the making. Let us see.

[Sudhaama]

.
. Al Nashar Dream.!... SELF-DECEPTIVE Cat-plan.!!

Well.. My Dear Pizzalot... Welcome to differ with my stand.

In fact I will be very very happy... if my stand is proved WRONG...

...and if this White-Elephant Plan can materialise into Reality...

...as per its Scope and Purpose.

But... Are we just DREAMING?...

...And have we considered well on the Pros and Cons.?

May I know your POINTS OF DEFENCE...

...in reply to Captain Balakrishnan's Analytical critisms
...

... on this IMPRACTICABLE Scheme

...which will Neither be VIABLE.. Nor PURPOSEFUL... Nor ECONOMICAL as anticipated...

..he justifies... wonderfully... and UNDISPUTABLY.

[quote=pizzalot]Sudhama .. you never know.

Do not evaluate a project based on the existing demand. Once it is laid out you will see new oppurtunities getting created. New use will emerge. When humans invented computer, we thought the machine will be demanded only for computing. Today they are used widely for other purposes like means of cimmunication, media players and even in cars for driving control. Same way the project should be evaluated creatively. In the 60s South India was NOT a automobile hub. Now it is one. What is so wrong in opting for the sea means of transportation ?

Those who disown the project should think twice. Because chances of it succeeding is expected to be at a big level. We are talking about another Singapore in the making. Let us see.



http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/oct/

'The Sethu Samudram does not make nautical sense'

October 01, 2007

Continuing our series on the Sethu Samudram Shipping Canal Project, Shobha Warrier speaks to Captain (retired) H Balakrishnan of the Indian Navy to know a mariner's view of the project. Captain Balakrishnan has been associated with the navy for 32 years. He was one of the first batch of three Indian naval officers to do specialisation in anti-submarine warfare in the erstwhile USSR Naval War College. Out of interest, he did a study on the Sethu Samudram Shipping Canal Project from a mariner's point of view. Ever since the series appeared in the Indian Express, the captain has been much sought after for his interesting calculations.

Why did you get interested in the Sethu Samudram Shipping Canal Project?

I don't belong to any political party. It was purely a mariner's interest that made me research the project. There were many reports and statements in the media but I found that the mariner's point of view was not talked about at all. It is sad that even today the entire discourse on the project has got completely side tracked from the main issue; that is, the project is for ships and the shipping industry. As a mariner, how do you describe the Sethu Samudram project? The Sethu Samudram project, if I can put it simply from a mariner's stand point, does not make any nautical sense.

Why do you say so?
I have worked on the project from three different perspectives, all concerning the nautical world. I analysed the project in the backdrop of the environmental factors that would impinge the safety of the ship and also the safety of lives at sea. Number two was the security aspects which is maritime terrorism as it stands today. And the third was certain aspects of general navigation.

What does your research on the environmental factors say?
We mariners call the coast between Rameswaram and Cuddalore the cyclone coast. The India Meteorological Department has assigned this coastline as a high risk probability. To site one example, in 1964, the Pamban Bridge was washed away by a severe cyclonic storm.

A ship is safe when she is moving at the onset of a cyclone. Imagine a ship waiting to pick up its pilot as it approaches the Palk Straits to enter Sethu Samudram. No captain will wait for the pilot; his safety lies in heading south, towards Sri Lanka.

The wind and waves bring in a large amount of silt and wash it ashore. The same thing is going to happen to the Sethu Samudram Canal. This brings me to another point. Marine scientists have identified five areas on the Indian coastline they call high-sinkage pits, and one of them happens to be the Palk Straits. What is left unsaid by the Sethu Samudram authorities is that maintaining the 12 metre depth (of the channel) will entail round the year dredging. Once you establish the channel, you have to maintain it. You mean other than the capital expenditure, there will be maintenance expenditure too. Will that be expensive? Naturally. But this cost is not mentioned anywhere. This is the hidden cost which the authorities will have to pay to the dredging company. It is a high siltation and sedimentation area. So, what you pick up today is going to get filled up the next day.

What is the security threat you spoke about?
The Sea Tigers of the LTTE have control of that area off the Jaffna coast. What the Sea Tigers may do is difficult to say. Piracy exists even today.
Those who are against the project say the 12 metre depth of the Canal is not enough for big ships to pass through the canal.

As a mariner, what is your opinion on this?
It is quite true. If you take global shipping trends today, to reduce operating cost, they go in for larger ships of the order of 60,000 deadweight tonnes and above. A 60,000 deadweight tonne carrier will need anything in excess of 17 metres of draft. And as far as tankers go, the days of the super tanker are gone and you see only very large crude carriers of the type of 150,000 and 185,000 tonnes. It makes more sense to have such big tankers as in one voyage, you are bringing in more cargo and reduce your operating cost. None of these big ships will ever be able to use the Sethu Samudram.

So, the question is, for whom are you building the canal?
30,000 tonnes was alright when Sethu Samudram was conceived in the early fifties and the sixties. That leaves you with only the coastal bulk carriers that carry coal from Kolkata, Paradeep and Visakhapatanam to Chennai or Tuticorin.

How much time and money are saved if the ships go through the Sethu Samudram Canal instead of going round Sri Lanka?
I plotted physically on a chart what we call 'passage planning' for a bulk carrier on passage as it happens today from Kolkata to Tuticorin; one of them circumnavigating Sri Lanka as is happening today and the other one going through the canal. The voyage distance from Kolkata to Tuticorin around Sri Lanka works out to 1227 nautical miles. If you went through the canal, it is 1098 nm. So, you are saving just 120 odd nm.

The story doesn't end there. The majority of our bulk carriers go at a speed between 12 and 13 knots. That is the average speed at sea. I have checked with my friends who currently sail. They all said they do 12 knots. However, I worked in a bracket of 12-15 knots. So, if you are going around Sri Lanka at 12 knots at constant speed at sea, the time taken to reach outer anchorage at Tuticorin is 102 hours and 15 minutes. When you go through Sethu Samudram, the point to be remembered is, you cannot proceed at the speed at which you are sailing at sea. The reason is the shallow water effect or what we call the 'Squat Effect'. So, the moment you enter Sethu Samudram, you have to reduce the sped by 50 per cent or more depending on the conditions prevailing at that particular time. So, I worked on a speed bracket of 6-8 knots. But many of my friends tell me 8 knots is too high for a 30,000 tonne bulk carrier. In all my calculations, I gave the benefit of doubt to the Sethu Samudram project.

The second aspect is, it is not an open seaway; it is like entering a port. A pilot boards the ship, who is a local mariner with greater knowledge of the marine environment. The same thing has to be done at Sethu Samudram also. I have given one hour delay for the ship to reduce speed for the pilot to climb aboard. You repeat the process at the other end too for him to disembark.

With this 6 knots speed and 2 hours pilotage delay, my time to Tuticorin via Sethu Samudram works out to 100 hours 30 minutes. If you went around Sri Lanka, it is 102 hours 15 minutes! So, your net savings in time by going through Sethu Samudram is 1 hour 45 minutes! Is it worth spending Rs 2,400 crore to save 1 hour 45 minutes? You spoke of travel time. What about the cost?
The Sethu Samudram project from the media reports and the statement given by the finance minister will cost at Rs 2,400 crore, of which Rs 971 crore is through a special purpose vehicle. The debt portion has been pegged at Rs 1,465 crore. Assuming an interest burden of 10 per cent, the interest payment on Rs 1,465 crore is Rs 146 crore per annum. Twenty to 25 years is the time given for repayment.

Assuming 25 years for Rs 1,465 crore, capital repayment works out about 56 crore per annum. So, Rs 146 crore for interest burden and Rs 56 crore as repayment works out to roughly Rs 204 crore per annum which is what the authorities will have to repay to any financial institution. This is only to break-even. But the web site says it is a profitable industry and it is going to make 'mammoth profit'.

As the earning is going to come only from ships, I asked, how many ships are going to transit in a year through the canal?
Ships that can use the canal will be coal carrying bulk carriers as long as the Tuticorin thermal power plant exists. Having made the calculation, I feel they are rather optimistic in their figures. They have given a mean value of about 3,055 ships meant to use the canal in the year 2008 and by the year 2025, they expect it to go to in excess of 7,000 ships. Mind you, for 12 metres of depth! But I can't see more than 1,000 ships using the Sethu Samudram canal in a year.

If you take Rs 204 crore as annual repayment, and 1,000 ships use it, your per ship cost works out to Rs 22 lakhs pilotage charge to break even. There is an interesting comparison done by K S Ramakrishnan, former deputy chairman, Chennai Port Trust. He pegs around Rs 50 lakh as pilotage rate per ship if you have to make a; profit.

Then I calculated the fuel consumed. These ships consume 1 metric tonne of fuel per hour, which costs Rs 24,000. For the Sethu Samudram canal, you have to add the pilotage cost too. In effect, if a ship goes through the canal, a shipping company loses Rs 19 lakh per voyage. It is more cost effective to circumnavigate Sri Lanka from the point of view of the shipping industry.

Therefore, neither are you saving time nor is it viable economically. These are the two aspects that need to be highlighted. So, there is absolutely no advantage to the ships and the shipping industry. So, what are we gaining by spending Rs 2,400 crore of tax payers' money? It is a white elephant in the making.

So, you must be against realignment which some political parties are talking about. Any course, any realignment, is going to prove uneconomical to the shipping industry. If it is of no use to the shipping industry, why build it? You can bring about better economic progress to the southern districts of Tamil Nadu by building expressways. That is why I say the Sethu Samudram shipping canal project makes no nautical sense. That is the tragedy of the project.

Those who support the Sethu Samudram Canal compare it to the Suez Canal and the Panama Canal and say the Sethu Samudram is the Suez of the East. In the case of the Suez and the Panama canals, ships save thousands of nautical miles in sailing distance and hundreds of hours in sailing time vis-&-vis the Sethu Samudram where a ship will probably save a few hundred miles and at the most twohours in sailing time. This is the difference.

Peace is doable.
.

[pizzalot]

Abhi ayega maja khelka !

Who is this Balakrishnan ? Is his analysis of the impact of SS Project on security the official version of the Indian Navy ? Does he understand that he is making serious allegations apart from talking about Nautical miles ?

He only reminds me of the Pied Piper story that we all read in the kinder gardens. "all the kids in the town of Hamelin, followed the pied piper, dancing and singing, except for two. The blind and the lame, who came back crying...".

It is a common man's knowledge that your house his safe when you do not desert it. There will not have been a Kargil crisis in 1999 if there were roads laid to Kargil from Srinagar. My simple analogy to Balakrishnan, playing his own game.

In 1800s,India had 2 routes for transport development. 1.Water 2.Land. All major cities were on Land. So they opted for land route. Result was we lost several million hactares of agricaultural and forest land for contructing our railways and roadways. We have spent millions and millions in laying and maintaining them. Instead if we had opted for Water ways, we will have still retained our forests @ 75% and Agriculture blossomed to great heights. But despite that blunder , without any fuss, we have seen how the 3 metros Mumbai, Chennai and Calcutta were still growing on the coasts. That is the power of waterways. Waterways is the most environment and pocket friendly means of all transportations This even a layman knows. Nature has already acquired the land and laid the water ways for you. You will just need to learn and respect it. Had we gone for dredging our rivers and and developed the river transportation instead, we will have seen all the cities naturally leading us to the Port Cities which again lead us to the outside world. We may not need to be in the place where we are today spending millions maintaining the roadways and railways and the court cases, and subsidising the farmers for our blunders. And we will not have have lost the Industrial and Agricultural revolution what the rest of the world has taken advantage of, in the last few centuries.

Talking about the present and future, in anycase, we have no more land to write-off to meet the increased demands on transportation. The need to decide between "land vs water" is all the more critical today than it was yesterday. Chennai is becoming the World hub for Automobile. No more games at domestic level. We need to atleast think at Asia level even if you just want to maintain a hindu growth rate of 3.5%. Right now we are going at >8.5%. If it comes down to 8% tomorrow, that will mean 750,000 less emplyment.

Balakrishnan is correct in measuring nautical miles saved from Kolkotta to Trivandrum. Has he done his homework for Tamils ? Did he tell us how much more miles we can save from Chennai to Tuticorin or Chennai to Trivandrum ? Is it wrong for Tamilars to see Chennai-Pondicherry-Cuddalore-Nagapattinam-Cochin-Kanyakumari-Trivandrum as prominent economic hubs of the future ? Instead of travelling 400 miles why should I go 1000 miles touching Colombu waters and thus endangering myself ?

Mr. Balakrishnan, you have plotted the actual route and the nautical impacts of SS Project. Now, please plot the following and you will see where the kids of Hamelin have gone. following the pied-piper 1. India's National Water Grid connecting all major rivers which is already a plan in the making is one point 2. Substituting/Complementing the Roads/Railways with hitherto untapped domestic Waterways is another point 3.Linking Domestic Waterways to the Coastal Gateways and using Sethu.

Ask Balakrishnan if he can see things from Strategic perpectives like his bosses in the Navy and the Government. He will notice how his voice is fading out.

Mr. Sudhama, thank you for giving me the oppurtunity to explain.


.
Well.. My Dear Pizzalot... Welcome to differ with my stand.

In fact I will be very very happy... if my stand is proved WRONG...

...and if this White-Elephant Plan can materialise into Reality...

...as per its Scope and Purpose.

But... Are we just DREAMING?...

...And have we considered well on the Pros and Cons.?

May I know your POINTS OF DEFENCE...

...in reply to Captain Balakrishnan's Analytical critisms [quoted below]...

... on this IMPRACTICABLE Scheme

...which will Neither be VIABLE.. Nor PURPOSEFUL... Nor ECONOMICAL as anticipated...

..he justifies... wonderfully... and UNDISPUTABLY.

.....
Peace is doable..

No. He is wrong again. Peace is NOT doable now that he himself has ridiculed the re-alignment.

And dont even bring Tsunami. As I said it makes me laugh. Do you think they will eat the mud that is dug out of the canal ? Dont you know that the trenched-out mud will only block the tsunami protecting all lands west of the Canal while lying perpendicular to the tsunami waves ?

It makes perfect sense to all those who need to understand. May be Balakrishnan should have tried a little harder and followed the other kids of Hamelin instead of complaining for having been left behind.

But I will admit there is some impact on the environment. But again, anything and everything is bound to have an impact on the environment or else Newton will become angry. :D

[Punnaimaran]

Excellent views pizzalot.

[pizzalot]

Thanks punnaimaran.

The following were the latest updates on Sethu row in Supreme Court. The whole emphasis is on so called "belief of 800 million" people. I am requesting them to make that number 1 less. Do not include me, please.
:lol:

Here is the summary (not ditto of the proceedings but just a summary so that you get an idea)

Court: "Swamy, who goes to the site to worship?"

Swamy: "We all worship the sun. But we don't go to the sun to worship it"

He cited few "strange coincidences" as a means to show the power of God reigning over the Sethu.

1. A dredging machine that was used there suddenly broke down.

2. Another crane was deployed to retrieve the parts of the machine, it too broke down.

3.Then the authorities used another crane, with the words Hanuman written over it. That too broke.

4. Authorities called a Russian expert for the dredging operation but he ended up breaking both his legs.

5. Subsequently, a formal worship was organised. But a Tamil Nadu legislator who performed the worship died of heart attack the next day.

I am interested to know if even in this century there are people who really believe in these things. In all their arguments there was nothing "technical". They were suddenly talking on behalf of the 800 million hindus of India.

Swamy, if "something" is already preventing the authorities from dredging the "bridge", why do you need the court for ? What are you opposing ?

Thoongaravana ezhupalam. Nadikiravanai ezhuppa mudiyuma ?

Then those things like cost, returns, environment blah blah blah. They made their intention clear to the court and nation. That they want only one thing. The project should be scrapped at anycost. That is all.

Their malafide intention is what is going to be the strength for those in favor of the project.

[Punnaimaran]

It is my opinion that the Supreme Court has set a very bad precedent with this judgement(?). It gives religious extremists the right to stop a development project in the name of religion in future.

Tomorrow the Christians and Muslims may try to stop development projects saying that it 'hurts' their religious sentiments.

Do not be surprised if in future there is a judgement from the Honourable (?) Supreme Court like this:

"No one is allowed to build houses in or around Ayodhya as it involves digging the ground that Lord Rama had once walked."

[pizzalot]

Exactly.

The posers' intention to scrap the project "at anycost " is their weakness.

I do not think the alternative alignments will work. They were proposed by the posers. They claimed that it is sound on economics, ecology and hindu friendly. Those who trusted their words ditto will now feel disappointed. They will realize that the whole thing is a conspiracy. It is not about "faith". It is about power.
Did you see one the irony ? Rama wanted that the bridge be destroyed, because the Rashashas should not follow the trail. But "believers" of today want the sethu to be "saved".

So it is never about "faith". It is only politics. Belief or not , it is all manipulated.

To me the case proves there is no Rama. Simply Rama or not it is what they say he was.

[Punnaimaran]

Exactly.

The posers' intention to scrap the project "at anycost " is their weakness.

I do not think the alternative alignments will work. They were proposed by the posers. They claimed that it is sound on economics, ecology and hindu friendly. Those who trusted their words ditto will now feel disappointed. They will realize that the whole thing is a conspiracy. It is not about "faith". It is about power.
Did you see one the irony ? Rama wanted that the bridge be destroyed, because the Rashashas should not follow the trail. But "believers" of today want the sethu to be "saved".

So it is never about "faith". It is only politics. Belief or not , it is all manipulated.

To me the case proves there is no Rama. Simply Rama or not it is what they say he was.

As you have pointed out, it is never really about faith. It is the Hindutva groups' old trick of whipping up passions.

But would our people ever understand this? I sincerely hope they do.