Learning another language

[app_engine]

By default, most Indians who went to school can handle 2 languages (at different competency levels, ofcourse) - their mother tongue & English. In addition, some states also teach Hindi and people from most southern states (i.e. other than TN) can typically handle 3. However, in spite of many opportunities, programs etc, I think the count for most in TN is still 2.

Some of TN'ers also learn another language while working outside TN (mostly Hindi, Kannada for those working in Bangalore & Telugu for those working in AP...in my case Malayalam)...Some put forth personal efforts to learn another language (could be Hindi / Sanskrit / French / German...)

This thread is for those who wish to put forth such personal efforts to learn another language...What are some "quick-learn" methods, tools, techniques, tips, experiences...in addition to asking doubts on a particular language which can be answered by someone expert in that...

(I know there are countless such resources on the web, but this forum is always a funnier / better place to talk about and gain information...)
...

[skanthan]

Right now, I am learning (trying to learn???) Hindi and I can speak it to a fairly reasonable degree. As a speaker of a second or third laguage, I find that learning a foreign language would be extremely helpful when interacting with people from a particular group. An Indian friend of mine told me recently that Hindi is an international language along side other such languages as English, French, German and Japanese. :D For someone who has grown up hearing more well known languages such as French, German and Japanese, I feel as if Hindi would be a wonderful language to learn if people want to learn something more exotic and if they want to go further off the beaten track I would recommend languages such as Tamil, Telugu, Sinhalese etc.. ;)

[app_engine]

skanthan,
I'm in the beginning stage of learning Hindi...though I learnt the alphabets during my school days (during summer vacation), never had a chance to progress...didn't care during college days when I was around a lot of people speaking Hindi (REC), a nice opportunity lost...

Well, learning another language while living in a place where majority speak that is relatively simpler. It takes a lot more effort as I see in my case...learning Hindi in Michigan:-) Still, it's not impossible as I made decent strides in the last two months...I can read reasonably fluently now...

Two techniques I found useful:

a) Listen to recordings of a book / publication while driving to & from work (technology used by babies)...This is preferably a book available in multiple languages and one should be familiar with the information in a known tongue, say, like a religious book or famous work like thirukkuRaL...or could even be children's stories / rhymes and similar kind with simple vocabulary

b) Read aloud at least 5 minutes everyday...needs some discipline / supportive environment...like, say, rest room:-)

[skanthan]

app_engine,

Fortunately for me, I have had long interacttions with Hindi speakers and I have ATN Z/StarPlus(Canada) as a part of my channel line up and due to listening to Hindi speakers and watching many Hindi serials esp those with English subtitles, I have learned and picked up quite a bit of Hindi. Also I can read and write Hindi as well.

The techniques you have suggested work very well. Though the first seems a little difficult. I have been learning little by little and just by listening to others and reading the English subtitles on Hindi serials which use the subtitles and from reading books as well as asking people and writing down. And also I find if I have some quiet surroundings where I can concentrate while practicing, that is good as well. Many people have been impressed by my ability to speak in Hindi and really commend me for my efforts to learn this wonderful language. :D Abhi mein Hindi me thora thik se baat karte. :) Lekin ek roj, mein Hindi bahut acchhaa se baat karoonga. Zaroor! :thumbsup:

[app_engine]

Sure you will, skanthan! (see I understood your Hindi:-) and my best wishes!

The TV route won't work for me (at least not at present) due to the 20 month old at home:-) For me technique one is successful thanks to the MP3 recordings of Hindi Bible that are available on the web and elsewhere...(In Thamizh, I remember a good part of the gospels by-heart:-))

[skanthan]

Bahut dhanyavaad!

People have told me that when learning another language, the learner will often learn the bad words first.

I have also heard horror stories where a learner of a foreign languge will be inadvertently tricked into reading out some message to a native speaker of that language only to find out the hard and most possibly painful way that the message was laden with most unholy language. :shaking: Usually a native speaker of that language will write a message for the learner in that language and have them read it it to another native speaker. :shock: :o

Thank God that has not happened to me; Though unfortunately, I did pick up quite a few bad words in Hindi :oops2: and got a good hot masala from one Indian lady for saying one of them about a vamp on one of the Hindi serials! :lol2: :rotfl2:

ie: Even a b@*@** will spare her own people.

Haiyoooo Rama did that lady ever give me a good hot masala for saying that word! :lol:

[app_engine]

That people try to trick one to speak obscenities in an unknown language is quite universal:-) (There are a couple of hilarious scenes in the movie 'my big fat greek wedding')...

However, in today's world, it's relatively easy to filter out such by using internet...For e.g., you can quickly verify the meaning of any word in sites like the one below:
http://www.wordanywhere.com/cgi-bin/fetch.pl

I found the above link to be very useful in finding out the English meaning for Hindi words...

[Sudhaama]

.
Anybody Can use.. MORE THAN 3 Languages.! How.?

With my personal Knowledge and vast experience...

(1) Learning another Language is NOT AT ALL DIFFICULT. It is not correct to say that only EXTRA-ORDINARY intelligent or Genious alone can learn and remember.

Even a Moderately clever Boy / Man... can learn ANY NUMBER of Languages...

..commensurate with his Enthusiasm and whole-hearted Sincerety.

(2) After getting well-versed to talk fluently in one's Mother Tongue..

...anybody can start learning additional languages...

...One by One.... Not more than One at a time.

(3) While we start learning the Second language after Mother-Tongue...

...it may be felt difficult to grasp and remember simultaneously Two words of expression... to convey a single sense.

For example.. let us take the case of a person having Tamil as mother-Tongue.... learning Hindi as additional Language...

When he wants to say...GO in Hindi...

...Unexpectedly and unsought...he gets the Tamil word "PO"...

... by recollection of memory.

Then his brain momentarily starts searching the parallel word in Hindi...

..and recollects from memory another word for the same sense... but in Hindi... "JAO"

Rather his Brain fastly translates into Hindi from the Tamil word PO.

But when we get practiced to use two languages simultaneously...

..we can easily learn the Third, Fourth, Fifth... and more and more number of Languages...

...depending upon ones Memory-power.

How it becomes possible in cases of the 3rd and 4th Languages.?

When we are used to express two languages simultaneously...

..as said hereabove... our Brain translates from our Mother Tongue.

Whereas... after the second language.. our Brain DOES NOT TRANSLATE...

..but fetches the apt word from the relevant Language... our Mind gives command to our Brain.

For example.. if a Tamil orator entrusted to translate the English speach of another Orator on dais...

...and when he has to translate the English word...SEA...in Tamil..

..immediately his Brain recollects from his Memory... all his known words in Tamil... to mean the sense SEA in English...

...such as... KADAL...SAMUDHRAM... PUNHARI...PARAVAI... and so on...

..as much as his Memory stock contains...

..as also depending on his Memmory power...

...plus his practice to recollect fast.

Then he chooses one amongst several choices.. suiting to the Context and Occasion.. and speaks out.

All these sequential processes are conducted fast by Brain, Mind and Tongue... within a fraction of one second.

What is the difference in learning a 2nd language and further Additional Languages.?

It is easier to learn more than Two languages than to learn a 2nd Language. Why so?

When we learn second language... our brain translates our Mother-tongue word into the second language and then present to us.

..Rather we think in the Mother tongue first and then think the 2nd language trough our first language.. Mother-Tongue.

Whereas when we talk in the third or 4th language and more...

..our brain is already trained to think in two languages simultaneousluy..

..so will not be difficult to think in more languages too directly.. without Translating the word... from our Mother tongue.

So, similar to recollecting more words in one and the same Language... Mother Tongue..

..our Brain is capable of storing more words in DIFFERENT LANGUAGES TOO.

Thus in my case... suppose, a Conference or Friendly meet or my Construction Work Site with workers from different regions..

...if I come across the people of different Regions and Languages..

I talk in Telugu fluently with one of them... next moment in Hindi with another .. with equal fluency at ease...

...and then the third man in Tamil...followed by the 4th Man in English..

So goes on... in Bengali, Malayalam, Kannada etc...

How it becomes possible?

When I decide to talk in Telugu... I think in Telugu... as in the case of my mother tongue Tamil..

.... and so my brain DIRECTLY fetches the apt Telugu word from my memory...

..not through Tamil... my Mother-Tongue... as the case of 2nd Language.

So PRACTICE...Abhyaasam... similar to Music or Art or new Talent like Cycle driving or Car-driving...

...is the most important means...

..after memorising.

Especially keen observation of Spoken-Language conversation...

.. plus the Field-activities as per commands...

..are the EASIEST MEANS to learn additional Languages by Experience...

..even without Literal Study.
.

[app_engine]

Observation (or listening) and practice are obviously the most important things in learning a new language, i.e. if the objective is primarily to just conversation or may be things like enjoying a song, play, movie etc.

However, if the objective is more than that (like appreciating literary works, speaking on a platform, conducting a class , sending written communication etc.), obviously practising to read and write also become important.

In either case, for those with limited time and surroundings not-so-conducive to observation/listening and practice, additional techniques are needed. That's where these discussion forums / support groups and web in general are a varaprasAdam:-)

[Akula]

I agree with Sudhaama

Because of my personal experiance. My mother tongue is Telugu, but I was born and brought up in Chennai. The language I learnt in school was English and Hindi. So I can read, write and speak English and Hindi.

As I was in chennai I learned to read, write and speak Tamil. But I did not know to read and write Telugu, I could only speak. Now after I got married I am learning to read and write Telugu so it would be easier to mingle with my in-laws. That makes 4 languages now

So I too agree that man can learn any number of languages, it doesn't require special talents or great intelligence.

But he has to keep practicing them otherwise he will forget very easily.

[skanthan]

Namaskaaramulu, Akula ji! eTla onnaraa? :D

I second you on your last point. When learning another language, it is also important that we have people to talk in that language with. Yeh bahut zaroorat hai. Otherwise, ham logon saab cheej bhuljaaoongaa.. We will forget everything.

Luckily for me, I am in a job where my bosses are all Hindi speakers. Woh logon Hindi me baat kartaa mere saath aur ham woh logon ko Hindi me laute javaab dete. Yeh double bonus hai. Mai thora paisaa batorloonga aur mai jaldi se Hindi sikhaaoongaa! :thumbsup:

Lakshmi Mata aur Saraswati Mata ki JAI! :D

[app_engine]

Digression:

>>But he has to keep practicing them otherwise he will forget very easily.<<

Only partly true, i.e. if the original learning wasn't (relatively)complete, there is a possibility to forget whatever portion was learnt. Again, it varies from person to person & based on circumstances. Take my case, I'm not in an env. where anyone speaks Malayalam...neither do I, except may be one or two phone calls in a MONTH, for a few minutes. And this is neither my mother tongue nor learnt during childhood, but in my 20's and used for about 15 yrs. Now, even though I don't use the language for > 5 years actively, I can give a lecture or even translate on-stage today, any time.

It's actually related to how much embedded it is in your brains (wired?), not necessarily active practice - though it helps a bit.

However, I agree that to get it embedded the first time around, one needs to practice a lot and may be for a while.

End-Digression

[app_engine]

Back to the topic of learning...

One of the techniques I found / am finding useful is to be involved in a group that has some activity with the language. Say like a study group / discussion group (technique naturally used by students learning in a formal class room but doing it informally).

However, being out of school and pursuing career / family life, where is the opportunity for this? Circumstances may vary from person to person, still one can look for this activity in whatever social organization that they are associated with - clubs, associations like those in a housing complex, charitable org.s, religious groups etc. It may be even possible to influence members of such communities to start a "study group" of a foreign language. Group study helps progress faster...(if none of this sort is possible, start with every member of the family and set time aside at home:-))

[app_engine]

What do you people think about "ridiculers"? Do they help or harm in learning a new language?...

[app_engine]

And a question to skanthan (and other Hindi Guruji's), what are the different ways one can use the Hindi word "mathlab" (மத்லப்)...I hear an Infosys guy who frequents my vicinity in the workplace use this 100's of times daily when talking to another colleague...quite confusing to me... Is it 'meaning' or 'I think' or 'that is'...or something else...

[Sudhaama]

.

. Multi-senses of MATHLAB Word.!
.

And a question to skanthan (and other Hindi Guruji's), what are the different ways one can use the Hindi word "mathlab" (மத்லப்)...I hear an Infosys guy who frequents my vicinity in the workplace use this 100's of times daily when talking to another colleague...quite confusing to me... Is it 'meaning' or 'I think' or 'that is'...or something else...

There are several such words in Hindi... which means different

...according to the context.

For example take this word.."MATHLAB"

(1)

A: "I am thinking of College study... leaving this Business. What is your MATHLAB?

Here the Word means... OPINION.

(2)

A: I have brought this girl with me although Not married?

B: MATHLAB?

A: We Are Lovers... we will have Regd Marriage tomorrow. Till such time let her sleep with your mother.. if you don't mind please.

Here it means.... MEAN?

(3)

A : Without MATHLAB I caught this Vehicle.(Bina MATHLAB ke... Ye Gaadi pakad liya Mae.)

Here it means...SENSE.

(4)

A: He wants me to pay him... but he will neither repay me nor work for me... Uska MATHLAB kya... maalum nahin

Here it means.. INTENTION.

(5)

A: He under-rated all my properties.

B: ..MATHLAB.?

Here it means... REASONING.

(6) I will not sign this Document... MATHLAB... I don't agree.

Here it means... THAT IS... SO TO SAY/ MEAN..
.
Enough?... Or Want more.?

Dear Friend.... We are drifting away from the Thread topic.

Don't we have any other Thread...

..relevant to this purpose.?
.

[app_engine]

Thank you for the details on mathlab, Sudhaama...

I think discussions to clarify doubts on languages is quite apt in this thread as we don't want to limit this just to describing the tips / tricks / experiences etc. on learning a new language...especially with the amount of limited participation at present...if there're a lot of participation in that direction (i.e. queries like mine) , we may create new threads at that time...

[skanthan]

Matlab sure has alot of meanings! :lol2:

[Nichiro]

I am happy to bump in here. I speak about 9 and some three or four other dialects of Hindi, urdu and Gujarati.languages . Most languages I speak fluently except Kannada and regret never having learnt Malayalam.

Speaking of "Matlab" ka Matlab, most readers have already got the different meanings .
I will take this opportunity to inform you that Punjabis never(99%) pronounce it as Matlab. They pronounce it as "MATBAL".

[app_engine]

Welcome, Nichiro!

Wow, 9 languages plus dialects...great! (I assume this includes Thamizh...as majority in the hub can handle Thamizh)...and you're perhaps in the most appropriate location, which is a meltng pot of people speaking a number of languages! (I live in the metro Detroit area too and some of my friends are learning Arabic, to interact with the biggest Arabic speaking population in the world outside middle east)...

Well, if you know Sanskrit (or its descendants) and Thamizh, you can probably handle Malayalam without much "learning". Yes, it takes a few days to learn the scripts (especially the writing part:-)), but to speak and understand should be much faster...

[Sudhaama]

.


I am happy to bump in here. I speak about 9 and some three or four other dialects of Hindi, urdu and Gujarati.languages . Most languages I speak fluently except Kannada and regret never having learnt Malayalam.

Welcome dear Nichiro.

For anybody who has studied Sanskrit... especially in School... at least Elementary stage...

..it will be not at all difficult to learn most of the other Indian Languages...

..since they all are SANSKRIT-BASED... with different forms and styles of presentation...

...EXCEPT TAMIL.. the One and the ONLY INDIAN LANGUAGE... NOT SANSKRIT-BASED.

..but INDEPENDANT on its own.. by Origin... so to say by CLASSICAL VALUE... equal to Sanskrit.

And if anyone has not studied Sanskrit... for him, the route to get aquainted with maximum amount of Sanskrit words...

..as the starting base... or SPRING-BOARD towards the other Indian Languages... are KANNADA or MARATHI...

..where even the commonman's colloqual words are of Sanskrit..

...mostly THATH-SAMA type... so to say same form and dialect...

..unlike Tamil... where most of the Sanskrit words we use are of THADH-BHAVA type... i.e. transformed different.

For example... NISCHAYAM in Sanskrit... becomes NICHCHAYAM in Tamil.... CHANDRA = Chandhiran... RAATHRI = Raaththiri... and so on.

..mainly because one of the uniqueness of Tamil is... that there is no CLUSTER OF LETTERS like KLA... VRU...THRI...etc.

...apart from several other forms of Thadhbhavam in Tamil.

The Maximum Sanskrit words using Indian Language is BENGALI... which we can notice, even from their colloqual language...

For example...the Sanskrit word MAHASHAYA ... meaning Respected Sir / Great Man / Gentlemen... i

...is pronounced and addressed as MOSHAAY in Bengali.

Similarly in Bengali... several Sanskrit words are pronounced differently such as..LAKSHMI = Lokki ... DHHEKSHITH = Dheekkith.

So if anybody knowing Kannada or Marathi... any other Indian Language... EXCEPT TAMIL...is very easy.

Next to Marathi...the one more handy choice-route to learn other Indian Languages (except Tamil) is Hindi.

Malayalam is a beautiful blend of Sanskrit and Tamil...

...the only TWO CLASSICAL LANGUAGES of India.

The Arithmetics and Numbers in Malayalam are EXACTLY TAMIL totally.

And it is almost the Ditto form of MANIPRAVALAM TAMIL (Mix up of Tamil and Sanskrit)...

..purposively created by Tamil Vaishnavites... out of necessity...

... to facilitate easy communication to Non-Tamilian Vaishnavites all over India..

...so as to explain and discuss the Vedic Religion quoting Sanskrit Texts and Tamil Prabhandams of Alwars.. side by side.

If we study the Malayalam Language Founder.. Ezhuththachhan's Origin Texts..

.. we can understand... as to how the Tamilian GRANDHA-LIBI (Script) has been radically adopted by him...

..apart from the All India Spoken form of Vaishnavites Religious Language, MANIPRAVALAM...

...has subsequently taken shape as the present Regional Language... Malayalam.

No doubt several Persian, Portugese and Arabic words also had got mixed up with the Ezhuththachchan Malayalam, later ...

...due to their close contacts with foreigners in trade... for Wood, Pepper, Rubber, Tea etc...

...the abundant wealthy growth of the region.

So any Tamilian... or any other who knows Tamil...

...he/she can be the first person to learn Malayalam their close Neighbour cum Sister Language...earliest and the fastest...

Malayalam is the latest addition to the list of Indian Languages

Two speciality features in Malayalam are...

- It is one another Language after Tamil.. where the strange letter and pronunciation "ZHA' exists...

..and abundantly used in Malayalam... much more than Tamil.

- Malayalam is the only Indian Language spoken with Nasal tinge...

..similar to Italian amongst the Word Languages


I will take this opportunity to inform you that Punjabis never(99%) pronounce it as Matlab. They pronounce it as "MATBAL".

Yes in the language Punjabi... generally the cluster of words they break and change to different forms mostly...

..for example SAMUDRAM... they pronounce as SAMUNDAR.

But please don't ask me whether the Hindi word LADKI..

...will get a shape as LAKDI.in Punjabi?

These two words mean different senses altogether.
.

[pavalamani pragasam]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Have I learnt it all wrongly???
In school I was taught about the Dravidian sister languages, in MA learnt about of the European family tree of languages with 8 branches with Sanskrit as one, a tree with which south Indian languages had no 'snaanapraapthi'!!!

[Sudhaama]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Have I learnt it all wrongly???
In school I was taught about the Dravidian sister languages, in MA learnt about of the European family tree of languages with 8 branches with Sanskrit as one, a tree with which south Indian languages had no 'snaanapraapthi'!!!

Madam,

I am unable to follow precisely... what you mean.

Have you anything to say... differing with my posting above.?

Will you please clarify?
.

[pavalamani pragasam]

.//.it will be not at all difficult to learn most of the other Indian Languages...

..since they all are SANSKRIT-BASED... with different forms and styles of presentation...

...EXCEPT TAMIL.. the One and the ONLY INDIAN LANGUAGE... NOT SANSKRIT-BASED. //

Got bowled over by the above statement!

[app_engine]

Well, let's switch back to "tricks to learn" a new language rather than analyzing the roots of Indian languages, which may lead to fruitless debates and possibly useless postings:-)

While I was encouraging my son to brush up the Hindi he learnt upto 4th grade when in India and become fluent with it, he insisted on learning something entirely new and different. I went ahead and allowed him to get a audio CD / book package to learn Japanese, upon his insistence:-) Seems to be useful material, though the sounds are funny to me. And he was talking about using "cards" to quickly learn the language, which he has also used in the school briefly in Spanish classes. He picked a bunch of cards and was working with his CD player, book and the cards last night...I'll find out more about this usage of cards (as practiced by him and in his school) and post it later...

[Sudhaama]

.
.
Well, let's switch back to "tricks to learn" a new language rather than analyzing the roots of Indian languages, which may lead to fruitless debates and possibly useless postings:-)...

Yes. I agree.

Madam Ms Pavalamani pragasam's valid question I have replied now...

..in the relevant Thread...UNIQUE LANGUAGE TAMIL. HOW?

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1219016#1219016
.

[app_engine]

Digression
http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=376806&disdate=11/27/2007

While we don't know the complete details (depression may be involved), it pains to read such news. Lack of (foreign) linguistic skills should never be a limiting factor in education...unfortunate:-(
End-digression

[Sudhaama]

.
. Easy TIPS to learn any New Language.

Herebelow are the Practical Tips... which I adopted to learn several Languages... EASILY as well as fast.. as per MY EXPERIENCE...

...as well as my several friends... who followed my such a Practical guidance successfully..

...even without the Tutor.

We were able to learn our Mother-Tongue faster than other Languages...

... even at the unripe Baby stage ...

..mainly because we learn the Spoken Language primarily, prior to learning the Script.

... we are taught by our Mothers.. the Command words as the first Lesson... such as... COME... GO... SIT... EAT... SLEEP... YES... NO...and the like

... we at the Baby-stage learn.. more by practical observation of Action and Expression. So, folowing such a Practical Formulae. So..

(1) Try to learn a Language... in the Spoken form... prior to Bookish study... or the Schooling method...

..prior to venturing into the Literal-knowledge. This method can help you learn the Literal form faster.

(2) Intentionally place yourselves in the midst of such elementary people... like workers having a little of the Language which you know well.

For exampe if you are a Tamilian... interested to learn Japanese.. choose some such persons who know a little Tamil also...

..while he is well-knowledged in practical Japanese.

So he will prefer to make you know more by his knowledge of Japanese... than Tamil of his scanty knowledge.

That will be an exercise for you to forcibly get acquainted with a lot many new Japanese words...

...with the help of a few Tamil words he will use to make you understand your totally new Language.

(2) Choose some local Field spots... like Construction Sites.. or Luggage Handling yards... where the Japanese Language only is used.

Keenly observe each command word..followed by action. Grasp to your memory. Similarly word by word.

And when two or three persons are assembed on any filed work.. yuo can keenly observe and learn from their expression followed by relevant action called for.

(3) Start talking slowly and gradually in small sentences... with your new acquaintances...

..who are sincere to help you in the matter.

(4) Then step by step... you can grasp the sentences... followed by actions meant for.

(5) Most important factor is...PRACTICE. Yes..

...Go on speaking... especially in the market for purchases... without hesitating that others may mock at your mistakes and elementary knowledge.

(6) Your acquaintance of worker status will not laugh at you... even if you blunder.

(7) Then as the advanced step make Friendship with a few Japanese...

..whom you find sincere to help you to speak, understand long sentences too....

..leading towards the next stage of Conversation.

This is a Practical method to learn any Language faster.
.

[app_engine]

Well, this using cards is another play thing (doesn't suit me)...விளையாட்டா ஒரு மொழி படிப்பது...அவ்வளவு தான்...It's just writing down a word and meaning and usages in one card (in US they sell such cards in 100 packs and they are available usually very cheap during school year start...one can ger as many as 1000 cards for $2)...

Write 5-10 cards each day, keep looking at these cards as great treasures (சின்ன வயதில் "தீப்பெட்டிப்படம்" கலக்ட் பண்ணினது நினைவுக்கு வருகிறது)...in that way build up vocab / usage...

May work for kids...tough for me...actually they get credits in their class for such cards on various subjects too (part of homework)....

[app_engine]

Like the "same-word-with-different-meaning" (think about 'kal' in Hindi which means both yesterday and tomorrow:-)), "same-letter-different-pronunciation" is another big challenge for anyone who wants to learn a new language.

I thought Hindi would be similar to Malayalam while reading - assuming all one needs is just to pronounce the letter as written. (Malayalam is 99.9% pronounced as written, with a very few exceptions. These happen where it uses some Thamizh words which can take different pronunciations for consonants like in Thamizh - e.g. we write 'ma-ka-n' but pronounce 'mahan' for 'son' both in Thamizh and Malayalam. To avoid trouble, I used to resort to the easier 'mOn' or 'puthran' most of the times).

However, Hindi reading has a different set of challenges in store (even though it has multiple consonants like ka, kha, ga, gha and one would think it should be easier to pronounce than Thamizh).

Some of those are:

1. When to pronounce as a consonant and when not to (this is because they very rarely use the symbol that denotes a consonant, unlike Thamizh which puts a period '.' on top always and without the period symbol, it's always the first vowel 'a' that's added. e.g. புள்ளி இருந்தால் 'க்', இல்லாட்டி 'க'). Ofcourse there are rules easy to learn but there are also exceptions which throws one away. (I'm with a group of Michiganders learning Hindi and it's funny to see them struggling with "kar saktha', reading it "kar sakatha")

2. Whether to explicitly say 'h' or not. Again there may be rules but there are exceptions as well. "He" is written as 'va-ha' (ok, ok, as 'va-h') but pronounced almost like 'vE', keeping the h silent, like in English. Interetingly, the Michiganders are better than me in this regard, as they simply treat it like English:-)

Ofcourse, listening to recordings / native speakers is the only way to master pronunciation in any new language. Despite some of these challenges in Hindi, it's still much easier than English to master in reading, IMO:-)

[app_engine]

Another simple technique to speed-up reading skills: make an enlarged copy:-)
i.e. Letters with size like in the onnAngLAs text book:-))

[Anoushka]

I would say the best way to learn a language is to live in a place that language is spoken and listen to people using that language (in real life or TV/movies) and use the language as much as possible that way you get to understand and speak the language easily.

As for reading and writing, you will have to put in special efforts for that :)

[app_engine]

Anoushka,
That's generally true. (There are exceptions too, as I know a lot of Thamizh people who lived for years in Palakkad and still cannot handle spoken Malayalam, let alone read and write).

However, we cannot "move" to live in a place just to learn that language. Especially, when there is a desire to learn a specific language that is spoken by a sizeable number of people in the geographical area you live and still it's not the local language.

This is true in the case of many metropolitan areas. For e.g., in metro Detroit area, there are easily 200K or so Arabic speaking people. A great number of people here also speak Bengali, Polish, Chinese, Albanian, Spanish and Hindi even though one can live a lifetime without knowing a single word in any of these tongues. If you take Toronto, I think there is a lot of linguistic diversity too (Thamizh, Punjabi, Hindi being some examples spoken by huge # besides the official English / French languages).

And it may not be possible to always "live" among those speaking a different tongue, especially if you are always on the move or are an apartment dweller (where there is very limited interaction between those dwelling).

Take my case, I am learning Hindi and not many who live around me speak Hindi. There are a quite a few at the workplace, but it's not practical to use Hindi - though it may be appropriate to use a few words at lunch time etc.

Bottomline - I need to be innovative using all tricks / techniques and also putting forth extra effort. Well, I can say it's worth the effort! I'm assigned to read a couple of pages in a public meeting tomorrow:-)

[app_engine]

And how many of us in TN "live" among people who "speak" English day to day?:-) Still we all learn English, handle it and travel abroad. How does it happen? Whether one likes it or not, the schooling system forces initially and later those who are interested can develop further capabilities.

[rajraj]

app_engine: Here is a news item for you! :)


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/business/17novel.html

[app_engine]

rajraj,
Thank you very much for the link. It's quite interesting!

BTW, my reading assignment last Saturday went very well and the confidence level is quite good in that aspect:-) So, one step ahead in the Hindi lessons. Now the tougher part, speaking...(Understanding has probably reached 25% proficiency so far but speaking is not even 10%, IMO)

[app_engine]

A recent news report (that is distantly related to this thread) states that Indian Supreme court has dismissed a petition challenging TN Govt's order to make learning Thamizh compulsory in schools. This means all who go to TN schools from 1st to 10th will have to study Thamizh.

[app_engine]

http://in.tamil.yahoo.com/News/Regional/0804/24/1080424049_1.htm

சட்டசபையில் அழுத எம்.எல்.ஏ - மொழி விவகாரம் தான் பேச வந்த விஷயம்.

[app_engine]

Looks like my day of reckoning has arrived - I need to give a 5 min speech in Hindi in front of the class in another 2 weeks. Well, I prepared it in English. Before getting the help from some friends, I thought why not try google translate. It seems to be a decent tool, though some of it's translation has made me laugh like anything (in spite of my limited Hindi).

Example - I fed the following in English:
"Illustration of a frequent late coming employee - what should the owner do? Should he fire him immediately without a replacement?
Should he fire him without finding out the reason / situation and allowing time to correct?"

Google's translation:
उदाहरण के एक अक्सर देर से आने वाले कर्मचारी -- स्वामी का क्या करना चाहिए ? यदि वे उसे तुरंत बिना आग प्रतिस्थापन ?
क्या वह उसे बिना आग के कारण खोजने / स्थिति सुधारने के लिए और समय की अनुमति है ?

Fire = aag:-)

[app_engine]

Link to google translate :
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?sl=en&tl=hi

[app_engine]

Any suggestions for a decent Hindi typing software for WinXP desktop - unicode / phonetic? (Something similar to the eKalappai for Thamizh). Something that's a freeware.

I've tried a number of them googling and found serious issues with each of them. (Majoriy of websites give 'CAFE' which is a horror. Even their readme.txt has a major issue - words are in mangal font while the spaces between each word is ariel. In addition, keyboard gets "totally tranformed" (means for all applications and not just browser alone or wordpad alone) which is a big trouble as one would want to use English on and off. On top of these, the icon on taskbar also disappeared (preventing me from opting out). Had to reboot and that's the last time I'll use such software:-(

[app_engine]

For now, using the "google indic transliterate" which works pretty good for my small-time requirements:-)

With the help of a colleague in translating my material, I was able to successfully give that 5 minute speech last weekend!

(Felt like being in 6th grade, when I gave a speech in front of the whole school, the first time ever:-) The dais was so tall and totally hid me then; the teachers had to have me standing on a folding chair to reach the mike and the steel-chair was mildly reverberating to my jittery legs. This time, after more than 30 yrs, my hand was noticeably shivering and people felt my paper notes could fall off:-) )

[app_engine]

Increase in the number of people learning 'prAthamik' etc in TN :
http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=430350&disdate=8/6/2008

[HonestRaj]

Any good weblinks to learn Hindi
(Hindi - English & I would like to type the Hindi word in English to find its meaning) .

I have learned it until my 8 th standard.. & I can read & write almost all the letters in Hindi.. & understand a few with the meaning.

Now, I am interested in re-learning it, mainly to improve my vocabulary.. so that I can understand easily without assuming what it could be.

[app_engine]

HR,
translate.google.com works good for simple / short sentences (at the minimum can be used as a dictionary)

Also try wordanywhere which has a decent dictionary.

In the last six months or so, I've improved leaps and bounds and can now read pretty fluently and can understand 60% of what I'm reading:-) Speaking is still a challenge, though.

[HonestRaj]

Thanks.. a_e... I have checked a couple of known words & both the links are working fine. :)



now read pretty fluently and can understand 60% of what I'm reading:-)

for this purpose only I thought of re-learning it, though its not urgent & currently it becomes necessary to learn it.

[Tamilan]

any translator between tamil & english?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Translating between English and Tamil had once been our pleasant pastime in 'ulagam enbathu eththanai pEr' thread!

[Selviem]

can anybody help me to find good links to learn french.

[HonestRaj]

yesterday I was reading an article by Nanjil Nadan in Ananda Vikatan under the heading "theedhum nanrum"

& coincidently, he wrote about mother tongue & learning other language

some of his comments are quite acceptable.