A || Marmayogi | Kamal Hassan ||

[rsubras]

Good news good news :D :D :D

from http://sify.com/movies/tamil/fullstory.php?id=14549508

Kamal Hassan has started pre-production work on his new film Marmayogi, which he is directing and producing, on first copy basis for the corporate Reliance Adlabs.

Kamal's Marmayogi, is said to be a historical adventure romantic film with an 'A' list of actors. He has already contacted Bollywood actress Kajol, to play the heroine in this film, which will have music by A.R Rahman . The others including technicians are being worked out.

It will be the second time that Kamal is using an old MGR title for a film of his. Earlier he had used the title Sathi Leelavathi (1936), and now the famous MGR starrer Marmayogi (1951). It has tremendous title value, and the modern Kamal film will have three versions in Tamil,Telugu and Hindi.

[rsubras]

I am not sure if this is true...... bcoz kamal himself is producing and directing......... probably Adlabs had a say in it.......... anyway it will be a real good one if this turns out to be true :D

[Dragun]

I too am surprised to hear this. Kamal directing/producing a film with ARR?

[A.ANAND]

dasavatharam kuuda ippadithan news vanthathu,apparam enncho rahman pannala,ithuvum unmaiya?illa chumma gimmik-ah?chumma vilambarathukkaga rahman perai use pannaranngalo :confused2:

[anoops]

arr+rajini+mani combo rumour kkappuram next aa :P

[Ramakrishna]

only Kamal fans can confirm this

[selvakumar]

The project is confirmed.
But Arr thaan music director ah apadingira million dollar kelvikku paper AD vara varaikkum wait pannanum :lol2:

[Ramakrishna]

Get set go! for Kamal

Close on the heels of completing 'Dasavatharam', Kamal Haasan has reportedly commenced works for his next film. A mega-budget movie, it would be produced by Reliance Adlabs.

Reports suggest that the movie has been titled 'Marmayogi' and it would be directed by Kamal Haasan himself.

Touted to be an historical adventure film, 'Marmayogi' will have musical score by A R Rahman. Interestingly, it was the title of MGR's film released in 1951.

[A.ANAND]

final-la ellarukkum alva-than!

[Ramakrishna]

final-la ellarukkum alva-than!

ipdithaan ethaavathu nadakkumonnu bayamaa irukku. But i desperately want my favourite actor to work with my favourite music director.

[thineshan54321]

if this materializes, the ppl who want a roja or an iruvar or other classics will be really happy and i am first in that list. until then just keep hopes way down...

[rayan36]

Too good to be true :roll: We just have to wait until the movie starts to roll, not even the papers can be 100% true. look at Dasavatharam for instance :(

[MADDY]

2 good 2 be true....i think, it will be great if we dont get emotional and post anything here....ppl. are just waiting to barge in and make fun of us :wink: .....once let arr start composing - illa illa audio release function aagattum, apparum comment pannalaam..... :P

[Yathu]

Awwww great news! Hope this really does materialise! :D

[july]

I dont think Arr will be in ...

[dinesh2002]

final-la ellarukkum alva-than!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Wibha]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:

[A.ANAND]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:
pinna eppadi pesasollarinnga wibha sir??ithella kamal-oda 'magic' :lol:

[prasana84]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:
pinna eppadi pesasollarinnga wibha sir??ithella kamal-oda 'magic' :lol:
:lol: but anyways im expecting this project kamal is a great actor, a.r.r avar kuda work panna nichayam nalla music varum :D

[rayan36]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:
pinna eppadi pesasollarinnga wibha sir??ithella kamal-oda 'magic' :lol:
:lol: but anyways im expecting this project kamal is a great actor, a.r.r avar kuda work panna nichayam nalla music varum :D

nalla music varuthan Kamal manasu vecha...................

[littlemaster1982]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:
pinna eppadi pesasollarinnga wibha sir??ithella kamal-oda 'magic' :lol:

Anand,

Kamal-oda magic ellam oru pakkam irukkattum. Athu Wibha sir illa, Wibha Madam ;)

[A.ANAND]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:
pinna eppadi pesasollarinnga wibha sir??ithella kamal-oda 'magic' :lol:

Anand,

Kamal-oda magic ellam oru pakkam irukkattum. Athu Wibha sir illa, Wibha Madam ;)MADAM-MAH??? :roll: yaaru entha rubathila irukkanga innu theriyala!! :lol:

[Wibha]

Anand,

Kamal-oda magic ellam oru pakkam irukkattum. Athu Wibha sir illa, Wibha Madam ;)MADAM-MAH??? :roll: yaaru entha rubathila irukkanga innu theriyala!! :lol:

lm :notworthy:

anand :shock: :banghead: :hammer: :evil:

[A.ANAND]

Anand,

Kamal-oda magic ellam oru pakkam irukkattum. Athu Wibha sir illa, Wibha Madam ;)MADAM-MAH??? :roll: yaaru entha rubathila irukkanga innu theriyala!! :lol:

lm :notworthy:

anand :shock: :banghead: :hammer: :evil:
pothum pothum vittudunnga wibha madam!vali thannga mudila! :lol: enn intha vanmura?? :lol: :lol:

[Wibha]

Anand,

Kamal-oda magic ellam oru pakkam irukkattum. Athu Wibha sir illa, Wibha Madam ;)MADAM-MAH??? :roll: yaaru entha rubathila irukkanga innu theriyala!! :lol:

lm :notworthy:

anand :shock: :banghead: :hammer: :evil:
pothum pothum vittudunnga wibha madam!vali thannga mudila! :lol: enn intha vanmura?? :lol: :lol:

:twisted: pozhachu pongo :evil:

[Nayagan]

If Kamal is directing the movie, you can forget arr being part of the project.

I don't understand kamal sirs logic. He is ok with bringing in MDs like SEL, Himesh Reshammiya from bollyland but he is not OK with ARR. Can someone explain why

[crajkumar_be]

If Kamal is directing the movie, you can forget arr being part of the project.

I don't understand kamal sirs logic. He is ok with bringing in MDs like SEL, Himesh Reshammiya from bollyland but he is not OK with ARR. Can someone explain why
Nayagan,
Assumption is the mother of all screw ups. enna nadandhadhu, enna nadakkudhu nu theriyama comment panradhula arthame illa...
If he was NOT OK with ARR, why was he announced for Dasa in the first place? Do you think Kamal never knew that ARR was the MD for Dasa all that while? It doesn't hurt to use common sense, you know...
You know who recommended Himesh to Kamal/KSR???? You know the real reason why ARR couldnt continue working in Dasa?

Just dont go building mega serials out of rumors and hearsay.

[selvakumar]

Bala,
Vidunga.. Kamal ah kindal adikkirathu rahman section la pudusaa :wink: :wink:

[thilak4life]

Bala,
Vidunga.. Kamal ah kindal adikkirathu rahman section la pudusaa :wink: :wink:

:lol: Generally, no one gives importance (or even pays attention) to such naive whimsical rants like some of 'em in this thread have, but if the comment has some level of credibility, one needs to reply. I guess Nayagan's is a very valid claim. As far as ARR for Kamal goes, Kamal has always preferred Visceral works of the Raaja, and not for the ambient and effective works of Rahman. I'm talking about Rajkamal productions (strictly), but in future, Kamal "might" choose ARR if he feels the need to, I personally love ARR's work in films like "Iruvar" where Mani fully extracts the best of Rahman to the context of the film (or even "Mangal pandey" for that matter), Kamal is known for his musical sense, and extracts the best out of his crew, so if Rahman is a part of "Marmayogi", his talents will be put to full test, and the music will be of a higher level than what lesser mortals could think of..

[crajkumar_be]

Thilak,
Valid claim-a? :shock:
The fact that Raajkamal films havent had Rahman till now is one thing but Nayagan's post (not to mention the innumerable digs by others) is something else altogether...
A blatant lie has been accepted and propagated as truth just by virtue of repitition.
Even if Rahman himself clarifies, these people would still hold on to this myth, i suppose :roll:

[thilak4life]

Thilak,
Valid claim-a? :shock:
The fact that Raajkamal films havent had Rahman till now is one thing but Nayagan's post (not to mention the innumerable digs by others) is something else altogether...
A blatant lie has been accepted and propagated as truth just by virtue of repitition.
Even if Rahman himself clarifies, these people would still hold on to this myth, i suppose :roll:

Of course, but he at least asks for the reason, while other kids seem to pretend, propagate and subjugate the lies!

[Sanjeevi]

Eerkanavae Dasvatharam thread vettiya pesi pesi 40+ pages waste pannuneenga.

Ithukku entha kadthinu parppom

[prasana84]

Bala,
Vidunga.. Kamal ah kindal adikkirathu rahman section la pudusaa :wink: :wink:
Kamal pathuku music pottuthan rahman peru vanganumnu ila athu pola kamal enga yarum eppa thappa pesala. kamal is a great actor yara irunthalum sari ir or rahman kamal oru kalakku kalakiduvaru. selva engalukum vella irukku nanga onnum anti-kamal ila.

[Ramakrishna]

intha padathu music ARR podraara illayaa?

[selvakumar]

intha padathu music ARR podraara illayaa?

aamaamm.. aana illa :roll:

[MADDY]

Bala,
Vidunga.. Kamal ah kindal adikkirathu rahman section la pudusaa :wink: :wink:

FYI Nayagan is not a regular in our ARR section :huh: ........

i think CR has a valid point - as long as we dont have proofs we cant claim it :oops: ......

if ARR pulls out/thrown out of marmayogi, then also, we wont have a solid proof bcos of ARR's enigmatic silence on such issues :evil:

[Nayagan]

Thilak,
Valid claim-a? :shock:
The fact that Raajkamal films havent had Rahman till now is one thing but Nayagan's post (not to mention the innumerable digs by others) is something else altogether...
A blatant lie has been accepted and propagated as truth just by virtue of repitition.
Even if Rahman himself clarifies, these people would still hold on to this myth, i suppose :roll:

I am just asking a question. If you have an answer you can list it here. There is no need for you to assume that I am taking a dig at Kamal...and since you seem to question my common sense that tells me the kind of person you are...and the fact that you have problems comprehending...

[mahen01]

First of all varify whether its a roumer or not. Wait for the official report saying ARR is doing Kamal's Marmayoki.

[crajkumar_be]

I am just asking a question. If you have an answer you can list it here. There is no need for you to assume that I am taking a dig at Kamal...and since you seem to question my common sense that tells me the kind of person you are...and the fact that you have problems comprehending...
Why dont you cut the crap mate?
The answer to your question is right there in the reply i gave. Anyone with common sense wouldn't be asking the question in the first place :wave:

[Nayagan]

out there and proving my point again..lmao

[thineshan54321]

Thilak,
Valid claim-a? :shock:
The fact that Raajkamal films havent had Rahman till now is one thing but Nayagan's post (not to mention the innumerable digs by others) is something else altogether...
A blatant lie has been accepted and propagated as truth just by virtue of repitition.
Even if Rahman himself clarifies, these people would still hold on to this myth, i suppose :roll:

so let me get some things straightened out. what is the real reason why ARR and kamal work together?

[MADDY]

Thilak,
Valid claim-a? :shock:
The fact that Raajkamal films havent had Rahman till now is one thing but Nayagan's post (not to mention the innumerable digs by others) is something else altogether...
A blatant lie has been accepted and propagated as truth just by virtue of repitition.
Even if Rahman himself clarifies, these people would still hold on to this myth, i suppose :roll:

so let me get some things straightened out. what is the real reason why ARR and kamal work together?

they claim theres no reason as such....but we feel there is a huge problem :lol: ......

its better we stop talking abt it.....i have been talking abt this since Indian days and dont have a proof :lol: :oops:

[Priyankak]

ean ellarum ippadi negative-a pesareal :roll: :confused2: :huh:
pinna eppadi pesasollarinnga wibha sir??ithella kamal-oda 'magic' :lol:

Anand,

Kamal-oda magic ellam oru pakkam irukkattum. Athu Wibha sir illa, Wibha Madam ;)
:rotfl2: arshi

[Nayagan]

I am glad to see that you guys have similar doubts on this topic as I do. How thinks take shape for Marmayogi might provide more clues :?

[MADDY]

I am glad to see that you guys have similar doubts on this topic as I do. How thinks take shape for Marmayogi might provide more clues :?

no it wont........i thot same wud happen with 10A - nothing got clear - so dont expect any clear picture after Marmayogi as well :D

[A.ANAND]

[tscii:83c8b99fe2]Hema Malini in Marmayogi?

By Moviebuzz
Thursday, 13 December , 2007, 09:19
Last Updated: Thursday, 13 December , 2007, 09:34

Hema Malini, the Chennai born Tamil Brahmin, known as “Dream Girl” and the ‘numero uno’ Bollywood heroine of the 70’s is going to debut in Kollywood with Kamal Hassan’s magnum opus Marmayogi! Hemaji is going to play a very important character (not the heroine) in the film!
Ironically, her career had almost ended before it could even begin as she was thrown out of a Tamil film, for the reason that she had no “star appeal”! Hema then resolved to make it big in the place where it mattered more – Bollywood and took a decision not to do any “Madrasi” film!

Hema Malini was a craze in Bollywood after she made her debut with Raj Kapoor in Sapnon Ka Saudagar and introduced as the “Dream Girl”. Later she did a film titled Dream Girl opposite Dharmendra, the then hunk of Hindi cinema. Both of them clicked as the most romantic team and later fell in love and married him.

And what a performance it has been in Mumbai! She has acted in a variety of roles and made quite an impact in the industry. Hema Malini has made her mark not only in her acting career but also as a proficient and profile classical dancer. Her beauty and grace has charmed the hearts of many a men and continue to do so even today! She has been paired opposite the then top heroes of the industry, Dev Anand, Rajesh Khanna, Jeetender, Dharmendra, Raaj Kumar, Sanjeev Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan and others.

A source close to Hemaji says that she took the decision to do a Tamil film only after reading the complete script of Marmayogi. According to a source: “It is a mind-blowing role, which will prove that she is an actress of substance, and it is also a great opportunity to debut in Tamil pitted against a fine actor like Kamal Hassan.”

It is another feather on Kamal’s cap as Marmayogi is shaping out to be one of the biggest ever movies in Indian cinema.




[/tscii:83c8b99fe2]

[thineshan54321]

[tscii:3abdf461de]Hema Malini in Marmayogi?

By Moviebuzz
Thursday, 13 December , 2007, 09:19
Last Updated: Thursday, 13 December , 2007, 09:34

Hema Malini, the Chennai born Tamil Brahmin, known as “Dream Girl” and the ‘numero uno’ Bollywood heroine of the 70’s is going to debut in Kollywood with Kamal Hassan’s magnum opus Marmayogi! Hemaji is going to play a very important character (not the heroine) in the film!
Ironically, her career had almost ended before it could even begin as she was thrown out of a Tamil film, for the reason that she had no “star appeal”! Hema then resolved to make it big in the place where it mattered more – Bollywood and took a decision not to do any “Madrasi” film!

Hema Malini was a craze in Bollywood after she made her debut with Raj Kapoor in Sapnon Ka Saudagar and introduced as the “Dream Girl”. Later she did a film titled Dream Girl opposite Dharmendra, the then hunk of Hindi cinema. Both of them clicked as the most romantic team and later fell in love and married him.

And what a performance it has been in Mumbai! She has acted in a variety of roles and made quite an impact in the industry. Hema Malini has made her mark not only in her acting career but also as a proficient and profile classical dancer. Her beauty and grace has charmed the hearts of many a men and continue to do so even today! She has been paired opposite the then top heroes of the industry, Dev Anand, Rajesh Khanna, Jeetender, Dharmendra, Raaj Kumar, Sanjeev Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan and others.

A source close to Hemaji says that she took the decision to do a Tamil film only after reading the complete script of Marmayogi. According to a source: “It is a mind-blowing role, which will prove that she is an actress of substance, and it is also a great opportunity to debut in Tamil pitted against a fine actor like Kamal Hassan.”

It is another feather on Kamal’s cap as Marmayogi is shaping out to be one of the biggest ever movies in Indian cinema.




[/tscii:3abdf461de]

is this for sure ARR?

[dinesh2002]

[tscii:d1bdaf265a]Hema Malini in Marmayogi?

By Moviebuzz
Thursday, 13 December , 2007, 09:19
Last Updated: Thursday, 13 December , 2007, 09:34

Hema Malini, the Chennai born Tamil Brahmin, known as “Dream Girl” and the ‘numero uno’ Bollywood heroine of the 70’s is going to debut in Kollywood with Kamal Hassan’s magnum opus Marmayogi! Hemaji is going to play a very important character (not the heroine) in the film!
Ironically, her career had almost ended before it could even begin as she was thrown out of a Tamil film, for the reason that she had no “star appeal”! Hema then resolved to make it big in the place where it mattered more – Bollywood and took a decision not to do any “Madrasi” film!

Hema Malini was a craze in Bollywood after she made her debut with Raj Kapoor in Sapnon Ka Saudagar and introduced as the “Dream Girl”. Later she did a film titled Dream Girl opposite Dharmendra, the then hunk of Hindi cinema. Both of them clicked as the most romantic team and later fell in love and married him.

And what a performance it has been in Mumbai! She has acted in a variety of roles and made quite an impact in the industry. Hema Malini has made her mark not only in her acting career but also as a proficient and profile classical dancer. Her beauty and grace has charmed the hearts of many a men and continue to do so even today! She has been paired opposite the then top heroes of the industry, Dev Anand, Rajesh Khanna, Jeetender, Dharmendra, Raaj Kumar, Sanjeev Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan and others.

A source close to Hemaji says that she took the decision to do a Tamil film only after reading the complete script of Marmayogi. According to a source: “It is a mind-blowing role, which will prove that she is an actress of substance, and it is also a great opportunity to debut in Tamil pitted against a fine actor like Kamal Hassan.”

It is another feather on Kamal’s cap as Marmayogi is shaping out to be one of the biggest ever movies in Indian cinema.




[/tscii:d1bdaf265a]

is this for sure ARR?

yes thines, Gopal Srinivasan of ARRYFG confirmed this.... :) ARR is doing this project....

[kham]

Guys cant beleive till da last moment....
Just leave it for da moment guys... Will c once official audio release who is da MD...

[thineshan54321]

Guys cant beleive till da last moment....
Just leave it for da moment guys... Will c once official audio release who is da MD...

wait panama ARR albama?? :shock: u have to know as soon as possible when ARR is associated with a project, so that u can wait :lol: u cant just get the CD and realize its by ARR. never happens :wink: cheers

[Ramakrishna]

Guys cant beleive till da last moment....
Just leave it for da moment guys... Will c once official audio release who is da MD...

wait panama ARR albama?? :shock: u have to know as soon as possible when ARR is associated with a project, so that u can wait :lol: u cant just get the CD and realize its by ARR. never happens :wink: cheers

hehe... official announcement of the movie vanthaa pothum

[A.ANAND]

yaaro oruvaru namma ellarukkum 'alwa'kodukap poraru enbathu mattum nichayam! :lol:

[rajasaranam]

kamal will try to oust ARR from the project come wahtever may be. If Adlabs insists then he will try to screw up ARR's name. Better ARR stay away from this project.

[selvakumar]

1) kamal will try to oust ARR from the project come wahtever may be.
2) If Adlabs insists then he will try to screw up ARR's name.
3) Better ARR stay away from this project.
On what basis, you are telling this. :roll:
Even if Adlabs insists, I wonder why he should screw up ARR's name in his movie. :roll: Obviously, ARR fans might not expect a Sakkarakatti kind of *image projection for ARR* in the movie's publicity. Not sure whether they do expect it.
I think ARR staying away from this project won't affect KH or Arr in any way :wink:

[sibicalls]

kamal will try to oust ARR from the project come wahtever may be. If Adlabs insists then he will try to screw up ARR's name. Better ARR stay away from this project.

Or is it tat Universal hero has finally understood the better option.......... :D :lol: :roll: :P 8-)

Better late than Never :P :wink:

[Shankar]

>>>>>
Or is it tat Universal hero has finally understood the better option..........

Better late than Never
<<<<

Looks like you forget history quite easily...I agree with RS. While both are greats in their own way, they hate each other, and they've expressed it in their own way...

ARR (on kamal not singing any of the songs in Indian): The singer will have to suit the composition to do a good job, and the actor they portray is also important :-) (Did he forget that it was for kamal he was composing songs for :-) )

Kamal (on his fav music directors, during the launch of tenali): Raja and I share a good rapport and our tastes in music is similar. I won't say the same with other composers :-))

Of course, I will add the std disclaimer: I read it in some tamil mag, so cannot vouch for its authenticity...

[selvakumar]

Atleat to invalidate these claims, I want to see this combo. Who knows ? There might not be any problems between the two.

[Ramakrishna]

I think ARR staying away from this project won't affect KH or Arr in any way :wink:

:exactly: It is certainly not going to be a loss for ARR. For KH, it may be a loss untill and otherwise he goes for IR again who is his fav composer. if he misses out on both ARR and IR then it is certainly going to be loss for him since there is no one to match the calibre of ARR. :wink:

[selvakumar]

:exactly: It is certainly not going to be a loss for ARR. For KH, it may be a loss untill and otherwise he goes for IR again who is his fav composer. if he misses out on both ARR and IR then it is certainly going to be loss for him since there is no one to match the calibre of ARR. :wink:
The same goes to KH as well. KH is going to lose *nothing* if ARR is out of this project. Only thing is ; He will be bashed for throwing Arr out of it as usual :wink:
There is no one who can match IR or ARR. But there are few who can atleast deliver something if not on the levels of IR or ARR 8-) :)

But I really want to see this combo. KH + Arr

[Ramakrishna]

But there are few who can atleast deliver something if not on the levels of IR or ARR 8-) :)



so thats certainly some loss for him rite :roll:

[selvakumar]

so thats certainly some loss for him rite :roll:
It depends on the output that they deliver. Before seeing that, concluding these things won't be right. :roll:

[thilak4life]

I'm excited about Kamal-ARR pair too. Of course I love Kamal-IR pair. And, I've rarely been disappointed by the "music" in a Kamal haasan film. In the same vein, Kamal is one of the very few actors in Indian cinema who doesn't depend much on music (of all things)!

[Ramakrishna]

so thats certainly some loss for him rite :roll:
It depends on the output that they deliver. Before seeing that, concluding these things won't be right. :roll:

so, kyaa theerpu hai Selva anne :lol2:

[selvakumar]

so thats certainly some loss for him rite :roll:
It depends on the output that they deliver. Before seeing that, concluding these things won't be right. :roll:

so, kyaa theerpu hai Selva anne :lol2:
Both KH and Arr are going to lose *nothing* if they break out :lol2:

[rayan36]

Both KH and Arr are going to lose *nothing* if they break out :lol2:

I know I will

[rajasaranam]

1) kamal will try to oust ARR from the project come wahtever may be.
2) If Adlabs insists then he will try to screw up ARR's name.
3) Better ARR stay away from this project.
On what basis, you are telling this. :roll:
Even if Adlabs insists, I wonder why he should screw up ARR's name in his movie. :roll: Obviously, ARR fans might not expect a Sakkarakatti kind of *image projection for ARR* in the movie's publicity. Not sure whether they do expect it.
I think ARR staying away from this project won't affect KH or Arr in any way :wink:

On the basis of my observation of kamal trying to oust ARR. He is typical HCIRF and he want ARR to out of the picture. He introduced 'Mahesh' in 'nammavar' and spread around the news that Manirathnam's first choice for Roja was Mahesh not ARR which was until then an unknown fact. But Mahesh did not make it big. Next when he saw that SEL are making big waves in hindi he made them compose for Aalavandhan/Abhay' which was again a failed attempt to oust ARR. And now he had gone for 'Himesh' who is making it big in Hindi for 'Dasavatharam'. He had always tried to oust ARR with people who threaten the market of ARR or whenever he finds an opportunity, come what may.
This is just my gut feeling according to the observation till date. May be he has resolved himself and accepted the fact that ARR is infact a undeniable entity of Indian films / music and he cannot be made to retire that easily :)
But given the amount of EGO Kamal carries it will be a hard decision for him to succumb to the market demands! that's why Iam saying Kamal will try to oust ARR from the project. If not he will try to screw up ARR's name.
Lets wait and watch. If Iam wrong then It will be very clear that Kamal is out of his ego and has become a man who understood the market reality atlast :)

[thilak4life]

RS is of course a Raja fan, let's get that clear. I'm a RAja fan myself, but I'm not for conspiracy theories. No thank you...

[thilak4life]

Why I don't buy this:

Mahesh is an exceptional talent. Kamal's statement on Mahesh being the first choice was "demeaning" for Rahman, I doubt! He would have said that because "Roja" is a phenomenon, and ARR became an household name all over the world. Kamal's statement is a testimony for Mahesh, for his (largely unknown) talent was already valued highly by someone like Mani. (although we know the respect that Mani commands in the hub)

Months later we got "Indian", ARR was the MD, which was a much bigger launch pad than "Nammavar". But wait, let's not buy that. Let's just say Shankar was the reason. So be it...

Years later, we got a Vishal baradwaj combo for Chachi-420. But it was a more apt choice than Rahman in my books. Just listen to "Ek woh din bhi", it's just the album the film wanted. Gulzar-Vishal combo just rocks man. But no, Kamal was launching VB again, because his previous work in "Satya" was a chartbuster by itself.

Then of course came the masterpiece, Hey! raam, so Kamal has launched Raaja to the hindi market perhaps! Wait, L.Subramaniam was the first choice! To what, to disrupt Rahman's market? But then again, we got a "Thenali". Yeah, let the reason be KSR again.

SEL's first big wave in "market" was "Dil chahta hai" which was after Abhay. "Mission kashmir" and "Abhay" audio sales were both 'dud' commercially, but critically appreciated. Let's just say their filmmakers VVC, and Kamal were both ARR-haters that they went for SEL! (for the uninitiated, VVC is a RDB fan, and conspriacy theorist could deduce his 'ego' against ARR, because VVC hasn't worked with Rahman so far, you get the drift of the 'theories' I hope)

Finally Himesh's choice is because ARR already signed for Guru, Sivaji, JA, and had no time in his side. To disprove this theory, kindly listen to what KSR says in some TV program, ARR was in fact "approached", but he couldn't do the film for he was busy (for a man who was signed for Guru, Elizabeth, Sivaji, JA, etc - No wonder). Some say Himesh was recommended by Rahman. We should probably worry about Rahman's suicidal tendencies!

All this is beside the point, Kamal-Raaja pair is unparalleled in terms of quality output, and perfect marriage of the visceral to the visceral (I personally think Rahman has also proved his visceral best in MP, Meenaxi, and Iruvar) . Finally, It's only natural for Kamal to prefer and embrace Raaja. If one has to call it "Ego", it's like saying Raaja's market was dominated by Rahman, and to believe that Raaja's quality was diminishing, that it takes a Kamal to "oust" Rahman. Which as a Raaja fan, is an insult to his talent, and what his 'music' stands for!

[thilak4life]

Perhaps Kamal should have promoted Mahesh better in "Kuruthipunal". How about a couple of songs? He wants to oust Rahman after all!


Jokes apart, It just says how much of a phenomenon Rahman has been!! People deduce so many theories! :notworthy: to Rah-MAN(!)

[Dragun]

Thilak, I don't think VVC is a Rahman-hater or anything like that. Just because a director hasn't worked with ARR doesn't mean that he hates him. Maybe he is simply more comfortable in his working relationship with other MDs.

[thilak4life]

Thilak, I don't think VVC is a Rahman-hater or anything like that. Just because a director hasn't worked with ARR doesn't mean that he hates him. Maybe he is simply more comfortable in his working relationship with other MDs.

That's my point. Read mine as a conspiracy-theorist who could interpret whichever way one wants.

The other day, Bhansali's favorite Monty sharma says that he's the next big thing, and Bhansali has found "his rahman". There again one could easily build a case the way they want.

[MusicIsLife]

Kamal-Deva combination was OK and appropriate for the movies they worked. I dont think anybody outst's anybody.
For everybody to know if ARR takes a long time to compose (perfection!!), Dasavatharam took way too long to produce (ARR will not be able to wait way too long), so marmayogi might not work ARR's time!!. ARR wants his music to be copy-righted, which has too many legalities to fight for, somewhere something is missing.
I guess KH will work for himself best and find what suits him!.

[MADDY]

Marmayogi is definitely ON for both ARR and Kamal.......Kamal will not try to oust ARR - its pointless now, since ARR's name is embedded in TFM history.......ARR walking out of 10A was very unfortunate, and it pushed into bad feeling when no reason was provided for the same...............if they had given good reasons, nobody wud have reacted this much.....

though kamal and ARR mite have differences - they are professionals.......atleast i can vouch for ARR - i personally knew the problems betn ARR and shankar (through a very reliable source) but the way they teamed up in sivaji is a testimony to ARR's professionalism....... 8-) Kamal fans can quote similar examples for kamal i believe........i can quote myself - injirungo song in thenali :D ......

at the same time, the conspiracy theories of planning ARR-ouster in 90's are not completely false........but to attribute it to kamal is false... :D

[MADDY]

Marmayogi is definitely ON for both ARR and Kamal.......Kamal will not try to oust ARR - its pointless now, since ARR's name is embedded in TFM history.......ARR walking out of 10A was very unfortunate, and it pushed into bad feeling when no reason was provided for the same...............if they had given good reasons, nobody wud have reacted this much.....

though kamal and ARR mite have differences - they are professionals.......atleast i can vouch for ARR - i personally knew the problems betn ARR and shankar (through a very reliable source) but the way they teamed up in sivaji is a testimony to ARR's professionalism....... 8-) Kamal fans can quote similar examples for kamal i believe........i can quote myself - injirungo song in thenali :D ......

at the same time, the conspiracy theories of planning ARR-ouster in 90's are not completely false........but to attribute it to kamal is false... :D

[sat_srini]

[tscii:ac8eac6283]‘Kamal’ ka project

Author: S Suresh Kumar Date: 09 Jan 2008

None less than Walt Disney Productions for Kamal Hassan’s dream film


Everyone in the film industry aims for an Oscar. For actor Kamal Hassan, his latest project may just take him a step closer to the award. How? He has roped in Walt Disney as the producers for his next film.

Dream project

This film also happens to be the actor’s dream project and is called Marma Yoghi.
This big budget film could not do with just one producer, so now there is a co-producer — Bharat Bala of AR Rahman’s Vande Mataram fame. Thanks to Bharat, this film will also see Kamal Hassan and AR Rahman coming together for the first time.

International producer

Walt Disney Productions has recently tied up with Yashraj films and will be producing a film called Roadside Romeo for them shortly.

Fortunately for Kamal, the production house wants to spread its wings across the country too. The actor will be in the US to discuss production details for this film that will be shot in Thailand. Kamal plans to start shooting for this film in February.

Shooting up

Marma Yoghi is to be a historical story, set in the seventh century. The film is also touted to become the most expensive film in India.

A source says, “Kamal has budgeted this film at approximately 120 crores and as we all know, a film is never made within a quoted budget. It is bound to be the most expensive film ever made in our country.”

Once more

With remaking being the trend of late, it is not surprising that Kamal’s dream project too is another remake. The original Marma Yoghi was released in 1951 and starred legends MGR and Anjali Devi. The story is based on the novel Vendetta: The story of one forgotten, in the year 1886 by Marie Corelli.

Kamal’s Marma Yoghi will feature three heroines and rumours are that Kamal has zeroed in on two of them — Asin and Hema Malini, both of whom have acted with him before.


http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/southsplash/article?_EXT_5_articleId=885367&_EXT_5_groupId=14[/tscii:ac8eac6283]

[united07]

Kamal and AR Rahman for the first time????!!!!

Appo Indian, Thenali?

[dinesh2002]

Kamal and AR Rahman for the first time????!!!!

Appo Indian, Thenali?

i think they meant by 1st time Kamal as a director working with ARR MD?!

[crajkumar_be]

Kamal and AR Rahman for the first time????!!!!

Appo Indian, Thenali?
indha comedy mattum illa, the author also says its a *remake* of MGR's film by the same name :lol2:

[selvakumar]

indha comedy mattum illa, the author also says its a *remake* of MGR's film by the same name :lol2:
thatstamil, tamilcinema article ellam padichi paravasam adayanum pola ippo ellam. :lol2:

[Devar Magan]

[tscii:26260d8c60]‘Kamal’ ka project

Author: S Suresh Kumar Date: 09 Jan 2008

None less than Walt Disney Productions for Kamal Hassan’s dream film


Everyone in the film industry aims for an Oscar. For actor Kamal Hassan, his latest project may just take him a step closer to the award. How? He has roped in Walt Disney as the producers for his next film.

Dream project

This film also happens to be the actor’s dream project and is called Marma Yoghi.
This big budget film could not do with just one producer, so now there is a co-producer — Bharat Bala of AR Rahman’s Vande Mataram fame. Thanks to Bharat, this film will also see Kamal Hassan and AR Rahman coming together for the first time.

International producer

Walt Disney Productions has recently tied up with Yashraj films and will be producing a film called Roadside Romeo for them shortly.

Fortunately for Kamal, the production house wants to spread its wings across the country too. The actor will be in the US to discuss production details for this film that will be shot in Thailand. Kamal plans to start shooting for this film in February.

Shooting up

Marma Yoghi is to be a historical story, set in the seventh century. The film is also touted to become the most expensive film in India.

A source says, “Kamal has budgeted this film at approximately 120 crores and as we all know, a film is never made within a quoted budget. It is bound to be the most expensive film ever made in our country.”

Once more

With remaking being the trend of late, it is not surprising that Kamal’s dream project too is another remake. The original Marma Yoghi was released in 1951 and starred legends MGR and Anjali Devi. The story is based on the novel Vendetta: The story of one forgotten, in the year 1886 by Marie Corelli.

Kamal’s Marma Yoghi will feature three heroines and rumours are that Kamal has zeroed in on two of them — Asin and Hema Malini, both of whom have acted with him before.


http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/southsplash/article?_EXT_5_articleId=885367&_EXT_5_groupId=14[/tscii:26260d8c60]

a translation of thats-tamil article.. :lol:

[rayan36]

[tscii:03e6679e85]Kamal & Rajini – A new battle of grandeur

By Behindwoods News Bureau.

January 21, 2008

With Dasavatharam all set to hit the marquee in the month of April 2008, announcement on Kamal’s next project has snuck its way to the media. Going by the details of it, looks like Kamal is all set for another mammoth venture right after his ten-role act in Dasavatharam.

Titled Marmayogi, the movie is said to be produced by renowned Hollywood production house Walt Disney pictures for a whopping budget of Rs. 100 crores – not quite known to Tamil cinema yet. Walt Disney has roped in Bharath Bala of Vande Matharam fame for the production management of Marmayogi.

It’s a clash which has been going on for decades, but now it seems like the battle of grandeur and production scale between two superstars of Tamil film industry – Rajinikanth and Kamal Haasan, is getting to its peak. When Rajinikanth signed up a 60 crore project Sivaji, Kamal finalized the even bigger Dasavatharam. Now with the former again coming up with the announcement of Robot, touted to be financially the biggest project to be conceived in Indian film industry, jointly produced by Eros International and Ayangaran, the latter takes his dream to the next level. Perhaps the celluloid greats are really thinking bigger and higher.

Coming back to Marmayogi, the movie will be produced in four Indian languages - Tamil, Hindi, Malayalam, and Telugu - simultaneously. Although the rest of the cast are being finalized, credible sources strongly suggest that Asin stands a bright chance to bag the role of Kamal’s lead lady. Hemamalini, who was last seen in Kamal’s Hey Ram, is also rumored to be a part of the venture.

Earlier, Kamal tantalized his fans with only a teaser trailer of his dream venture Marudanayagam, an epic tale of one of the lesser known freedom fighters. Kamal even screened the trailer to the Queen of England during her Indian visit. However, for reasons ranging from budget to time consuming research, Marudanayagam could not take off and was eventually shelved. Now, Marmayogi, as the names suggests, is expected to have a historical backdrop and has hence raised the bar among his fans.

Dasavatharam is in its final stage of production and Kamal will participate in the initial discussions of Marmayogi after Dasavatharam is wrapped up completely.

So will Marmayogi serve enough Marudanayagam-fodder to eager Kamal fans? Watch this space for more updates.

Nothing mentioned about the music :?
[/tscii:03e6679e85]

[thineshan54321]

[tscii:2275af1283]Kamal & Rajini – A new battle of grandeur

By Behindwoods News Bureau.

January 21, 2008

With Dasavatharam all set to hit the marquee in the month of April 2008, announcement on Kamal’s next project has snuck its way to the media. Going by the details of it, looks like Kamal is all set for another mammoth venture right after his ten-role act in Dasavatharam.

Titled Marmayogi, the movie is said to be produced by renowned Hollywood production house Walt Disney pictures for a whopping budget of Rs. 100 crores – not quite known to Tamil cinema yet. Walt Disney has roped in Bharath Bala of Vande Matharam fame for the production management of Marmayogi.

It’s a clash which has been going on for decades, but now it seems like the battle of grandeur and production scale between two superstars of Tamil film industry – Rajinikanth and Kamal Haasan, is getting to its peak. When Rajinikanth signed up a 60 crore project Sivaji, Kamal finalized the even bigger Dasavatharam. Now with the former again coming up with the announcement of Robot, touted to be financially the biggest project to be conceived in Indian film industry, jointly produced by Eros International and Ayangaran, the latter takes his dream to the next level. Perhaps the celluloid greats are really thinking bigger and higher.

Coming back to Marmayogi, the movie will be produced in four Indian languages - Tamil, Hindi, Malayalam, and Telugu - simultaneously. Although the rest of the cast are being finalized, credible sources strongly suggest that Asin stands a bright chance to bag the role of Kamal’s lead lady. Hemamalini, who was last seen in Kamal’s Hey Ram, is also rumored to be a part of the venture.

Earlier, Kamal tantalized his fans with only a teaser trailer of his dream venture Marudanayagam, an epic tale of one of the lesser known freedom fighters. Kamal even screened the trailer to the Queen of England during her Indian visit. However, for reasons ranging from budget to time consuming research, Marudanayagam could not take off and was eventually shelved. Now, Marmayogi, as the names suggests, is expected to have a historical backdrop and has hence raised the bar among his fans.

Dasavatharam is in its final stage of production and Kamal will participate in the initial discussions of Marmayogi after Dasavatharam is wrapped up completely.

So will Marmayogi serve enough Marudanayagam-fodder to eager Kamal fans? Watch this space for more updates.

Nothing mentioned about the music :?
[/tscii:2275af1283]

someone should play jodha akbar's songs to anyone associated with marmayogi, then they'll know who to put in as MD.

[rayan36]

Well, they have to start from Lagaan, but by now they shouldve but just denying it :roll:

[crajkumar_be]

Behindwoods has proved yet again that its CRAP!
For example,



When Rajinikanth signed up a 60 crore project Sivaji, Kamal finalized the even bigger Dasavatharam. Now with the former again coming up with the announcement of Robot, touted to be financially the biggest project to be conceived in Indian film industry, jointly produced by Eros International and Ayangaran, the latter takes his dream to the next level.

:hammer:

1. Marmayogi was announced much before Robo
2. They haven't mentioned a word about Rahman being the MD

:lol2:

[A.ANAND]

a.r.rahman md 4 marmayogi.confirm!because the producer is barath bala.

[crajkumar_be]

a.r.rahman md 4 marmayogi.confirm!because the producer is barath bala.

Anand,
Walt Disney + Bharath Bala discussions are going on for the project after Marmayogi. For Marmayogi, the producer is likely to be Gemini Films Circuit (and Raajkamal on a 70-30 basis).
For Marmayogi, Rahman is said to have been finalized even before the producer or anybody else was decided.

[Cinefan]

Some esmall doubtsu Bala :D :

1)How much is required to complete MN?

2)What is the budget of MY? I am not believing this 90-120 crore crap.

3)If he can find a producer for a 7th century based MY then what's the problem in completing MN :?

[rajasaranam]

Some esmall doubtsu Bala :D :

1)How much is required to complete MN?

2)What is the budget of MY? I am not believing this 90-120 crore crap.

3)If he can find a producer for a 7th century based MY then what's the problem in completing MN :?

Caste Issues :cry: Marudhanayagam/KahnSahib is of Pillai Caste who killed Poolithevan of Thevar Community during a war. And there is Myth Woven around Poolithevan that he didn't die and became 'KaavalDeivam'. The movie will end this myth, Hence thevars are opposed to this project. Kamal being a Thevar Community favoured Actor (Thevar Magan/Virumaandi) doesnt want to offend them. Hence this Project is Dropped for sure. We need not expect this movie any more! :evil:

[selvakumar]

RS,
:o Quite surprising indeed. Are there any books available on the life history of Marudhanayagam/KahnSahib ?

BTW, Ippo ellam kh ah pottu varuthu edukureenga :lol2:

[rajasaranam]

SK,

There are some. But the authentic one was a tamizh book titled ' Kahn Sahib kathai paadal'. It was in the form of a folk song telling the life history of Kahn sahib. i lost that book long back and am searching for it since then.
Kamalhassan mela thanippatta veruppu onnum illai. Its just that he is not doing what he should be. Aaamir'naala oru TZP kodukka mudiyum bodhu why not kamal who is much more an intellectual than Aamir'ndra varuththam thaan. As I always say, Kamal Should come out of his Hero image and concentrate on direction only, to prove what he is worth of to the world.

[Cinefan]

SK,

There are some. But the authentic one was a tamizh book titled ' Kahn Sahib kathai paadal'. It was in the form of a folk song telling the life history of Kahn sahib. i lost that book long back and am searching for it since then.
Kamalhassan mela thanippatta veruppu onnum illai. Its just that he is not doing what he should be. Aaamir'naala oru TZP kodukka mudiyum bodhu why not kamal who is much more an intellectual than Aamir'ndra varuththam thaan. As I always say, Kamal Should come out of his Hero image and concentrate on direction only, to prove what he is worth of to the world.

TZP is a very good film no doubt but KH has done better creations. Maybe not with children which is something he can think about.

Agree on the second part to some extent,he always wanted to be a director&became an actor by chance.There is still a lot he can offer as an actor but most of his fans esp at the Hub want to see him as a full time director/part time actor.

In fact this issue was discussed in detail in one of the threads some time back.

[thilak4life]

Kamal should take up directing, but also do all the "mega projects" harnessing his image today. Then he could switch over completely. But he's doing the right thing with exploiting the actor in him. But, kindly stop bringing Aamir here. Aamir is one of the most overrated film "thinkers" today. Not just a RDB or Lagaan, but even TZP is highly populist, and a good film at best. If at all, the film belongs to the creative director Amol gupte, and the creative designer! No doubting that he's an oppurtunist who picks up all the right scripts. But in broader scale, he's nothing but mediocre (as a director, leave alone the actor). Considering his peers like SRK, Hrithik, and co, Aamir is certainly better. If you're to bring someone to be compared with Kamal as a director, a Vishal baradwaj would be much more digestible, for the "creativeness" the filmmaker exhibits.

[MADDY]

Not just a RDB or Lagaan, but even TZP is highly populist, and a good film at best

RDB is not just a good movie but a great one........it is like Paruthiveeran or a sethu to Hindi movies..........counterpoints(mom-son duet or a happy song for protagonists dying), drawing parallels to freedom struggle and today's struggles, realistic theme of MIG planes - it was out of the world - i dont think there is any director in tamil who can make a RDB .......all credit goes to Raykesh Mehra and not aamir khan as people think...... :D

[thilak4life]

Not just a RDB or Lagaan, but even TZP is highly populist, and a good film at best

RDB is not just a good movie but a great one........it is like Paruthiveeran or a sethu to Hindi movies..........counterpoints(mom-son duet or a happy song for protagonists dying), drawing parallels to freedom struggle and today's struggles, realistic theme of MIG planes - it was out of the world - i dont think there is any director in tamil who can make a RDB .......all credit goes to Raykesh Mehra and not aamir khan as people think...... :D

Of course, I wasn't discrediting RM's work. :) But, other than the production values, RDB must be the most overhyped film of that year. Few events were embarrasingly done. Why it doesn't work is the "parallel", which works for Mehra's cause though. The youngsters here, are pretty much instinctive, and let's just accept that the "history" (the whole routine) pushes them. But it's a weak "parallel", politically, cinematically, and even thematically. This idea of "rebellion" is more knee-jerk, than one which offers a worthy commentary. The fact that this film is taken to be a "youth reawakening", reinstates the fact that youth were never politcally awake in this country! :(

Essentially, it's somewhat like PV, with all its manipulations in place, and celebrated for the same!

[rajasaranam]

Kamal should take up directing, but also do all the "mega projects" harnessing his image today. Then he could switch over completely. But he's doing the right thing with exploiting the actor in him. But, kindly stop bringing Aamir here. Aamir is one of the most overrated film "thinkers" today. Not just a RDB or Lagaan, but even TZP is highly populist, and a good film at best. If at all, the film belongs to the creative director Amol gupte, and the creative designer! No doubting that he's an oppurtunist who picks up all the right scripts. But in broader scale, he's nothing but mediocre (as a director, leave alone the actor). Considering his peers like SRK, Hrithik, and co, Aamir is certainly better. If you're to bring someone to be compared with Kamal as a director, a Vishal baradwaj would be much more digestible, for the "creativeness" the filmmaker exhibits.

Aamir is definitely not overrated and also not mediocre. Your POV is well understood, And yeah! you have every right to think so, as we have our own biases of being a fan for some one :)

[thilak4life]

Kamal should take up directing, but also do all the "mega projects" harnessing his image today. Then he could switch over completely. But he's doing the right thing with exploiting the actor in him. But, kindly stop bringing Aamir here. Aamir is one of the most overrated film "thinkers" today. Not just a RDB or Lagaan, but even TZP is highly populist, and a good film at best. If at all, the film belongs to the creative director Amol gupte, and the creative designer! No doubting that he's an oppurtunist who picks up all the right scripts. But in broader scale, he's nothing but mediocre (as a director, leave alone the actor). Considering his peers like SRK, Hrithik, and co, Aamir is certainly better. If you're to bring someone to be compared with Kamal as a director, a Vishal baradwaj would be much more digestible, for the "creativeness" the filmmaker exhibits.

Aamir is definitely not overrated and also not mediocre. Your POV is well understood, And yeah! you have every right to think so, as we have our own biases of being a fan for some one :)

No offence meant or taken, RS. :)

But even if one is to step out of fandom, I don't think Aamir is a credible thinker. This is a guy who claims that he prefers Ghajini to Memento, because the latter doesn't give him answers. Later, he doesn't even get his criticisms right on Black. I believe that he is a no-nonsense guy, and hardworker - fully committed, and dedicated to do his work. In fact, I like his films most among the crap that Bolly mainstream heroes churns out today. But I'm just giving out my reasons on why I don't think he's all that good "thinker".

[thilak4life]

I fully agree that Kamal as a full time director would be something too extraordinary to look out for. (Incidentally, I rate Kamal over likes of Mel Gibson as a creative person, and the magnitude of effectiveness in their avatars of mainstream actor-turned-directors in their respective film industries)

[rajasaranam]

Yes I do Agree that Aamir is not a very great thinker and can never stand before the intellectual aura of Kamal :)
Read my post on this


Aaamir'naala oru TZP kodukka mudiyum bodhu why not kamal who is much more an intellectual than Aamir'ndra varuththam thaan.

Your post highlighted the first part of the sentence as I can see :wink:

TZP was a great movie IMHO, It reminded me of 'Majid Majidi', yes it was cinematic and emotional at some points, but surely a step ahead towards a bright future that will happen to Indian Cinemas.

moreover When kamal involves in acting and directing/ghost directing I have a few grouses over it.
Like...
-he will be compelled to kiss the heroine or do a semi nude scene :lol:
-He seeks avenues for glorifying his hero image

But had he wielded only the megaphone he will think clearly only on the narrative and we will get a masterpiece of a movie IMPOV.

[thilak4life]

RS, It's not just "emotional" events. The film itself doesn't challenge the viewer, and very much plays it to their consumption. Let's start that from the bourgeoisie condition. Though I have no qualms in liking the film for that, I have issues over the way the condition is used, and how the "acceptance" of this, both in the film, and how the audience have received are no different, which is sad. This is also trite to what Hollywood has imposed over the years, and I could only bring the other film, CDI, which is another beaten-to-death genre film with all the elements playing to the hindi viewers. These films were essentially packed for the audience, who haven't been exposed to such films at all. They don't involve an interesting thematic reading, which is an important canon to evaluate a film. Cinematically, they are fine efforts, but nothing more. TZP for instance is a film that I liked inspite of some embarrasingly conceived characters, and sequences. It's just goes on to show the paucity of such films in India. I don't see anything that we have seen in a "Children of heaven", or challenge to put ourselves in the kid's perspective without manipulating the economical condition as in "The bicycle thieves" (though people may not treat this as a "children's film, I see this as a film of paramount importance) or Mira nair's "Salaam bombay!", or Iran's own Kiarostami's "Where Is the Friend's Home?". However, What I liked in TZP is the brilliant visuals translated from the kid's, which doesn't require a Ray, but surely the Mainstream world of bollywood! But how about "The blue umbrella"? Which narrates its tale, and doesn't give a "condition therapy" to boot it up? Though this therapy of TZP isn't exactly "pedestrian", it's nevertheless mainstream, how ironic is that? :)


moreover When kamal involves in acting and directing/ghost directing I have a few grouses over it.
Like...
-he will be compelled to kiss the heroine or do a semi nude scene :lol:
-He seeks avenues for glorifying his hero image

But had he wielded only the megaphone he will think clearly only on the narrative and we will get a masterpiece of a movie IMPOV.

While I agree regarding the "glorifying" element, though I wouldn't think of Mahanadhi, Guna, Kuruthipunal, Thevar magan, Hey! Raam, Virumandi, Aalavandhaan! Because some of the 'em are discernible to the levels of questioning the masclunity, identity, morality, and even the sanity of the characters, and defying the usual tropes of heroism in their own ways.

Regarding "Sex" (let's also add "Violence", shall we?) - Isn't that a problem with masterpieces? doesn't it apply to many other masterpieces? Let's not even get to the levels of Y tu mama tambien or Seul contre Tous or what have you, even Kubrick. Interestingly, every true master of his art debate the "Arousing" of the relationship with intimacy of the characters. I don't see this as a "flaw", I have no objections whatsoever. The writer has a reason to "show", he shouldn't write a love symphony to represent this, there's a physicality attached to this, that it would be lost in words. Moreover, the visual grammar is paramount to what the writer conveys of the character, here's where the director plays the role. This "intimacy" is vital in "Mahanadhi" or a "Hey! Raam". The male "exposure" is least problematic to me, Haasan, unlike the sexist world of kollywood, has once again defied in his own way the convensions of nudity of the other sex. I also read of Kamal as a feminist. Unlike our kodambakkam filmmakers who use this exposure of the show pony female characters for eye candy (some even call it their USP), there's an all important significance to what Kamal does it here. Some of this has been discussed in our hub itself. I wish there's a more academic study of films by our Tamil writers. That would certainly open few eyes..

[thineshan54321]

RS, It's not just "emotional" events. The film itself doesn't challenge the viewer, and very much plays it to their consumption. Let's start that from the bourgeoisie condition. Though I have no qualms in liking the film for that, I have issues over the way the condition is used, and how the "acceptance" of this, both in the film, and how the audience have received are no different, which is sad. This is also trite to what Hollywood has imposed over the years, and I could only bring the other film, CDI, which is another beaten-to-death genre film with all the elements playing to the hindi viewers. These films were essentially packed for the audience, who haven't been exposed to such films at all. They don't involve an interesting thematic reading, which is an important canon to evaluate a film. Cinematically, they are fine efforts, but nothing more. TZP for instance is a film that I liked inspite of some embarrasingly conceived characters, and sequences. It's just goes on to show the paucity of such films in India. I don't see anything that we have seen in a "Children of heaven", or challenge to put ourselves in the kid's perspective without manipulating the economical condition as in "The bicycle thieves" (though people may not treat this as a "children's film, I see this as a film of paramount importance) or Mira nair's "Salaam bombay!", or Iran's own Kiarostami's "Where Is the Friend's Home?". However, What I liked in TZP is the brilliant visuals translated from the kid's, which doesn't require a Ray, but surely the Mainstream world of bollywood! But how about "The blue umbrella"? Which narrates its tale, and doesn't give a "condition therapy" to boot it up? Though this therapy of TZP isn't exactly "pedestrian", it's nevertheless mainstream, how ironic is that? :)


moreover When kamal involves in acting and directing/ghost directing I have a few grouses over it.
Like...
-he will be compelled to kiss the heroine or do a semi nude scene :lol:
-He seeks avenues for glorifying his hero image

But had he wielded only the megaphone he will think clearly only on the narrative and we will get a masterpiece of a movie IMPOV.

While I agree regarding the "glorifying" element, though I wouldn't think of Mahanadhi, Guna, Kuruthipunal, Thevar magan, Hey! Raam, Virumandi, Aalavandhaan! Because some of the 'em are discernible to the levels of questioning the masclunity, identity, morality, and even the sanity of the characters, and defying the usual tropes of heroism in their own ways.

Regarding "Sex" (let's also add "Violence", shall we?) - Isn't that a problem with masterpieces? doesn't it apply to many other masterpieces? Let's not even get to the levels of Y tu mama tambien or Seul contre Tous or what have you, even Kubrick. Interestingly, every true master of his art debate the "Arousing" of the relationship with intimacy of the characters. I don't see this as a "flaw", I have no objections whatsoever. The writer has a reason to "show", he shouldn't write a love symphony to represent this, there's a physicality attached to this, that it would be lost in words. Moreover, the visual grammar is paramount to what the writer conveys of the character, here's where the director plays the role. This "intimacy" is vital in "Mahanadhi" or a "Hey! Raam". The male "exposure" is least problematic to me, Haasan, unlike the sexist world of kollywood, has once again defied in his own way the convensions of nudity of the other sex. I also read of Kamal as a feminist. Unlike our kodambakkam filmmakers who use this exposure of the show pony female characters for eye candy (some even call it their USP), there's an all important significance to what Kamal does it here. Some of this has been discussed in our hub itself. I wish there's a more academic study of films by our Tamil writers. That would certainly open few eyes..

wow, all this is too complicated for me. to me it just comes down to if a movie has nudity, sex scenes i wont be able to watch it with my family and I cant enjoy a movie fearing that these scenes might show up. :lol: anyway, good analysis etc.

[Cinefan]

thilak,
Thineshan has put it very simplistically,right :D

Isn't that a problem with the common Indian audience,'Sex/raw violence'on screen is still a taboo while they don't mind the chauvinistic lines that a Rajni/Vijay utters or the crude skin show/Stylized violence in Normal movies.

Hey Ram went over the head of many an so called educated/thinking audience,very few even attempted to analyse what KH was trying to convey in Mahanadhi which was a very simple film which spoke in layman terms&you are talking of movies which many have not even heard, forget seeing.

Potraying him as a guy who is desperate to kiss on sceen is a cheap pot shot.

[Cinefan]

thilak,
Thineshan has put it very simplistically,right :D

Isn't that a problem with the common Indian audience,'Sex/raw violence'on screen is still a taboo while they don't mind the chauvinistic lines that a Rajni/Vijay utters or the crude skin show/Stylized violence in Normal movies.

Hey Ram went over the head of many an so called educated/thinking audience,very few even attempted to analyse what KH was trying to convey in Mahanadhi which was a very simple film which spoke in layman terms&you are talking of movies which many have not even heard, forget seeing.

Potraying him as a guy who is desperate to kiss on sceen is a cheap pot shot.

[MADDY]

Not just a RDB or Lagaan, but even TZP is highly populist, and a good film at best

RDB is not just a good movie but a great one........it is like Paruthiveeran or a sethu to Hindi movies..........counterpoints(mom-son duet or a happy song for protagonists dying), drawing parallels to freedom struggle and today's struggles, realistic theme of MIG planes - it was out of the world - i dont think there is any director in tamil who can make a RDB .......all credit goes to Raykesh Mehra and not aamir khan as people think...... :D

Of course, I wasn't discrediting RM's work. :) But, other than the production values, RDB must be the most overhyped film of that year. Few events were embarrasingly done. Why it doesn't work is the "parallel", which works for Mehra's cause though. The youngsters here, are pretty much instinctive, and let's just accept that the "history" (the whole routine) pushes them. But it's a weak "parallel", politically, cinematically, and even thematically. This idea of "rebellion" is more knee-jerk, than one which offers a worthy commentary. The fact that this film is taken to be a "youth reawakening", reinstates the fact that youth were never politcally awake in this country! :(

Essentially, it's somewhat like PV, with all its manipulations in place, and celebrated for the same!

Thilak, even i felt that Saketh Ram in Hey ram was a "knee-jerk" character with no substance to the characterisation........i would attribute the SRK dialogues in Hey ram abt muslims as very naive.......i had to walk out for a smoke in the scene where atul kulkarni talks to kamal about who is responsible for the riots.......

i'm not saying since Hey ram has flaws - u shuldnt criticise RDB - but u got to understand that every film will have a different perspective from different people.......there is a level of cliches/naivety we accept in our favorite films and look at the larger content instead......so to make a generalised opinion that RDB is over-rated is not right.....

it just gives me goose-bumps even today, to watch that movie.....patriotism is not a easy subject to handle..... 8-)

[Nerd]

Isn't that a problem with the common Indian audience,'Sex/raw violence'on screen is still a taboo while they don't mind the chauvinistic lines that a Rajni/Vijay utters or the crude skin show/Stylized violence in Normal movies.

If I talk about singaaravElan, PKS, VRMBBS etcc., you would dismiss it by saying KH did not play a part in the making of those movies. Similarly Rajini has not written dialogues for any movies AFAIK. STOP degrading him for God's sakes!

[rajasaranam]

Thilak, even i felt that Saketh Ram in Hey ram was a "knee-jerk" character with no substance to the characterisation........i would attribute the SRK dialogues in Hey ram abt muslims as very naive.......i had to walk out for a smoke in the scene where atul kulkarni talks to kamal about who is responsible for the riots.......


Couldn't agree with you more on Sakethram.
There was an excellent write-up in a magazine called 'Puthiya Kalacharam' about why 'Sakethram' is not the representative of India during the Partition/Freedom.
They wrote something like this!
"பொண்டாட்டி செத்தா ஹிந்துத்துவவாதி
நன்பன் செத்தா காந்தியவாதி"
இத சொல்றதுக்கு மூனு மனி நேரம் தேவைபடுது 8-)

[Cinefan]

Isn't that a problem with the common Indian audience,'Sex/raw violence'on screen is still a taboo while they don't mind the chauvinistic lines that a Rajni/Vijay utters or the crude skin show/Stylized violence in Normal movies.

If I talk about singaaravElan, PKS, VRMBBS etcc., you would dismiss it by saying KH did not play a part in the making of those movies. Similarly Rajini has not written dialogues for any movies AFAIK. STOP degrading him for God's sakes!

You can incl those films too,i mentioned Rajni/Vijay simply becos such lines occur more regularly than in KH films.

[Nerd]

Debatable. May be in a rainy day I will make a list starting from manmatha leelai.. and may be we can compare!

[m_23_bayarea]

You can incl those films too,i mentioned Rajni/Vijay simply becos such lines occur more regularly than in KH films.

If you want to pull Rajini, just do it to him! Why Rajini/Vijay? :roll:

[Cinefan]

Debatable. May be in a rainy day I will make a list starting from manmatha leelai.. and may be we can compare!

Nerd,the point I am trying to make is KH as done crap&so has everyone.

But when he/anyone else makes an attempt to get the audience thinking,there is resistance while crap is accepted more easily.

This is not about KH Vs Rajni/Vijay,pls understand.

[thilak4life]

Let's not get subjective here. For all you know, I find "The bicycle thief" to be naive, but thats beside the point. One should put up the criticism in the characterization objectively, how coherent it is to the theme, and the aesthetics of the film. Justify the "adjectives" you use. Like I claim that this "rebellion" thing is the weakest, and the most consumptive element, and that is kneejerk in essence.

Now that you bring Hey! Ram, Saketh is in fact a knee-jerk (if you mean what I mean), and the writer knows that all that well. This Muslim bhai-bhai indentation after the riots, is a key element to the film. In any case, I'm not nitpicking on these liberties as such, I'm critiquing the very "theme" that the film handles to be politically juvenile in RDB (or condition therapy in TZP). While Hey! Ram weaves its convoluted themes to its narrative, Films like 1947-Earth (for instance) cops out to an easier route. Just like Melville would use cinematic world to present his characters, (or Godardian world, or Bunuelism), Kamal takes a route of accentuated authenticity of the characters. Ever wondered why Saketh, Amjad, Aparna, or the Iyengars were essentially archetypes? What more that even Gandhi's wackiness is accentuated - which by the way is regarded to be better than Attenborough's Gandhi! The liberty that Kamal takes is Saketh meeting his friends, and how the tamil version made them speak Tamil (and they still moan that usage of different languages was the reason for the failure of the film)

As I said, the youth haven't been politically awake, thats why their dawn never lits up for films like Hey! Raam. Some books (available in books.google.com) do some justice to the strong political, and religious implications in the film. (even Sex and violence I believe)

[BTW, I didn't mean to restrict to Kamal's films, now that Maddy brings him to the fore. One could very well bring the other well received films - critically or commercially. Just as "Subtlety", cinematic realism should match the theme of the film. Precisely why I dismiss repeated claims that Mani Ratnam is handicapped, justifying that he's rather avoiding this whole argument with his films. Mehra's understanding is a weakling, and he choses to expose (which Mani did with Bombay for instance). While I claim that the *theme* itself is all too problematic in RDB, I don't deny that the cinematic elements could be "patriotic" for these youth, that's very much subjective though.]

[MADDY]

thilak, i dont understand wats problematic in accpeting RDB theme abt knee-jerk youth when u appreciate Saketh ram;s knee-jerkness.......i mean, the charatcers were meant to be like that - instinctive............even if u watch dombivli fast, SK is a knee-jerk character - thats how they shuld be.......

i still dont understand what was juvenile in RDB?? he portrayed the youth perfectly and the way they react to adversities.......there was nohwere that director was taking easy route in this movie......

and hello, this movie redefined patirotism and modified it to suit the current society.......patriotism now, is not about "hindustan zindabad" but feeling compassionate abt suffering of each indian.....u call it cinematic but it turned out to be the truth with medical college youth taking up protests in RDB style and not to forget jessica lal murder case supporters......

[rajasaranam]

[tscii:ef6b697567]

Regarding "Sex" (let's also add "Violence", shall we?) - Isn't that a problem with masterpieces? ..........
every true master of his art debate the "Arousing" of the relationship with intimacy of the characters. I don't see this as a "flaw",
......Moreover, the visual grammar is paramount to what the writer conveys of the character, here's where the director plays the role. This "intimacy" is vital in "Mahanadhi" or a "Hey! Raam".

....The male "exposure" ......

Iam not totally against SEX/VIOLENCE in films. But in a kamal film Iam sure that these scenes are deliberately infused to satisfy his own sexual fidelities, Nothing to do with the characters love/intimacy on screen. Krishnaswamy of Mahanadhi is a very ordinary man with ordinary needs unlike his London Friend. The Character is built in such a way that I doubt whether he would have lip kissed even his late wife. At the most they would have shared a normal sex life like any other living in a Village. He is very much affectionate and considerate towards his wife that he brings up his child even after her death without remarrying. He is a conservative Indian is what is built around Krishnaswamy as a character.
He refuses to be lured by 'Manju' and feels as though stepped on shit at a point of time when he loses himself for a brief moment at a party. The relationship between Yamuna and himself is not intimate love but pure gratitude and care. His children and life ahead is the only driving factor for 'Krishnaswamy'. And at a point of time after Kaveri is brought back to Chennai, and when she is tormented in her dreams he decides to take revenge for what Dhanush had did to him.
What sex/violence that ensues after this is not from Director Kamal but from actor kamal இந்த காட்சி வரை கமல் உடம்பில் புகுந்து வாழ்ந்து கொண்டிருந்த க்ருஷ்னசாமி இறந்து போகிறார் அதன் பின் திரையில் நிகழ்த்துவது எல்லாம் கமல் கமல் கமல். நச்சென ரெண்டு கிஸ்ச போட்டுவிட்டு கிளம்புகிறார்...பின் வன்முறையின் வேட்க்கை கொண்டு கொன்று தீர்கிறார் எதிரிகளை...படம் வீழ்ந்த்து அந்த முத்த காட்சியில் தான்..! Its all Kamal's idea about sex/love/marriage etc., which are being thrust upon Krishnaswamy. I can not even remotely accept that Krishna would have kissed Yamuna. Its kamal who kissed Sukanya :wink:

Let me post on Heyraam Later.
Sari ungalukku ellam office'la velaiye irukirathu illaya :lol:

[/tscii:ef6b697567]

[SoftSword]

very complex discussions are happening here...
could anyone throw some light on whats happening...

and mr.thilak... while writing a post, will you always make sure that it should not be simpler enough to be understood by paamarans....???
(written in very lighter sense :P)

[thilak4life]

RS,
Kindly refer this:



that smooch is no way un-neccessary.. krishnasaamy thaan virumba pennukku thaan mutham koduthaaru.. athuvum, uyiroda thirumbi varuvaaraanu theriyaatha soolnilayil...:notthatway:
he kisses her to stop her talking. anyway, idhu onnum periya vishayam illai, and does not diminish the value of the film (the contents of which is adult in any case.)

Krishnaswamy is a real man who bleeds when he is pricked. He is not someone who would say: "kuzhandhaigaLukkAga thaan". Kamal scoffs at that as a reason for re-marrying through the line Barani speaks while adopting the suckling puppy.

He is naive and vulnerable enough to be mildly swayed by Manju's intimacy. Wasn't signing the power-of-attorney also about demonstrating his masculinity to her ?

The morning after, his disappointment does not even surprise his mother-in-law. She considers it a non-matter before waking up to his mind in a very motherly fashion. He reacts very much like the Indian son who is shy to be a grown-up before his parents. From one my favourite scenes in the film:

Krishna: andha manju ponnu avvaLO nallava illa mA
Saraswathy: sari..adhukku enna ippo........ohO !
Krishna: ...illa illa mA....

Yamuna is herself someone who has taken up great responsibilities: first for her father (the old man perching on the pillion of his daughter's moped seems a statement in itself) , then for the Krishna's family.

Krishna may be our protagonist. But from the perspective of a matrimonial ad, he is a widower with two children. Not the most sought after stock. Yamuna is beyond her prime, and with a father in prison, little family support and a sorry financial situation, she has had to undersell herself in the marriage market.

Their coming together happens in the most extraordinary situations. (with Ilayaraja playing one of the most haunting guitar pieces of the 90s). The first time we hear the music is when Rajesh (in a marvellous role) takes the life out of the word when he , very officially, asks her to submit a manu stating : "........naanga rendu pEr kaadhalikkarOm..."

Their first ever intimate moment, where Yamuna's eagerness is real (unlike the irritating fake coyness designed for the likes of her in Tamil films) is stopped by the conservative PanjApakEsan: "YamunA en mookku kaNNAdiyA pArthiyAmmA ?".

She is the one who is witness to Krishna breaking down after his daughter's sleeptalk. (Sukanya's acting there is terrible- makes one wonder why Kamal paired with her "twice".).

Even in that scene Krishna's misery is not personal but incredibly social: "ayyo anga kAvEri maari niRaiya ponnunga irukku YamunA"

This is in the scene that leads to the "kiss". Titillation is simply out of question here. It is a beautiful and heart-rending affirmation of their relationship, also positioned to silence her. She opens her eyes to find him gone.

idhukku badhila reNdu poovai "symbolic"-A moDha vittirundha dhAn kanRAviyA irundhirukkum.

Needless to say, Prabhu Ram is conclusive as ever! :thumbsup:

[thilak4life]

very complex discussions are happening here...
could anyone throw some light on whats happening...

and mr.thilak... while writing a post, will you always make sure that it should not be simpler enough to be understood by paamarans....???
(written in very lighter sense :P)

AhA Will try to write better. :)

[thilak4life]

thilak, i dont understand wats problematic in accpeting RDB theme abt knee-jerk youth when u appreciate Saketh ram;s knee-jerkness.......i mean, the charatcers were meant to be like that - instinctive............even if u watch dombivli fast, SK is a knee-jerk character - thats how they shuld be.......

:notthatway:

The kneejerk regarding Saketh Ram is more "personal" to him, this "reaction" is one of clotting of the character's wounds which is a personal indictment of his disability to save his wife. The film is about this personal "redemption".

SK of Domvili fast is not a "vigiliante", he's belligerent due to his ballistic lash out, out of frustration of the routine "scum" that he's through. I did criticize the particular killing of the politician, and few sequences to be really unconvincing.


i still dont understand what was juvenile in RDB?? he portrayed the youth perfectly and the way they react to adversities.......there was nohwere that director was taking easy route in this movie......

and hello, this movie redefined patirotism and modified it to suit the current society.......patriotism now, is not about "hindustan zindabad" but feeling compassionate abt suffering of each indian.....u call it cinematic but it turned out to be the truth with medical college youth taking up protests in RDB style and not to forget jessica lal murder case supporters......

Once again, I'm referring the "events", and how the "theme" fails at face value, if not for the specifics. Tell me how this film is more than just an adrenaline rush for the youth? The film lacks understanding of its themes. As insensitive as Siddarth killing his father, or the youth taking up "violence", (inspired with the play they got to enact). Is this "rebellion history" key to solutions? does Imperialism compare to the politician (Is he a right-wing or left-wing leader?). This is as cinematic as our Gap10 citing Subhash chandra bose for terrorism! Even, if I'm to be convinced of this "friend's loss" and the whole history soaked to their blood, I don't consider this "serious" thematically. Mehra is just showing an "instinctive" reaction of one such carefree youth. The denouement that they face their death with "smile" is more of a "nod". Though, I would have to give it to the film regarding the sincerity. Mehra (as with Aks) has his heart in place, but his understanding leaves a lot to be desired if he had implied such "awakening" (thats how people read the film sadly). With important failures aside, the "creative" merits of RDB was evident with the screenplay, great visualizations, brilliant music, and some uplifiting performances. Perhaps why it's pleasing to the senses, and cons the youth.

[rajasaranam]

This is in the scene that leads to the "kiss". Titillation is simply out of question here. It is a beautiful and heart-rending affirmation of their relationship, also positioned to silence her. She opens her eyes to find him gone.


Not enough Reasoning for me!!! Iam not hinting anything atall that it was a titillating scene and it should have been avoided, but it shud've been avoided as i can see Krishna only as a simpleton/ 'Gramththu manithan' gone astray in his life. Not as a man who can Lipkiss a lady with Whom he is not yet married, remotely even for silencing her. Yes the scene was poetical as always in any of a Kamal movie. But it was out of place in the life of Krishnaswamy.
Mind it Iam not giving a Hypocritical POV wherein unwarranted gyrations of Female bodies are accepted while sex scenes if needed in films are met with a denial


இந்த காட்சி வரை கமல் உடம்பில் புகுந்து வாழ்ந்து கொண்டிருந்த க்ருஷ்னசாமி இறந்து போகிறார் அதன் பின் திரையில் நிகழ்த்துவது எல்லாம் கமல் கமல் கமல். நச்சென ரெண்டு கிஸ்ச போட்டுவிட்டு கிளம்புகிறார்...பின் வன்முறையின் வேட்க்கை கொண்டு கொன்று தீர்கிறார் எதிரிகளை...படம் வீழ்ந்த்து அந்த முத்த காட்சியில் தான்..! Its all Kamal's idea about sex/love/marriage etc., which are being thrust upon Krishnaswamy. I can not even remotely accept that Krishna would have kissed Yamuna. Its kamal who kissed Sukanya :wink:


Myself and PR Part ways, from the movie we travelled, right here :)

[thineshan54321]

i am enjoying reading these analysis. keep it up :thumbsup:

[thilak4life]

That's okay RS.
A rural innocuous man "kills"! I can not even remotely accept this-nu sollalama? In this very scene, he is grunted about his daughter, he breathes in air, and cries his heart out. And, it's very evident that Yamuna and Krishna are both set to marry, and it's not quite evident that Krishna was a "shy middle class man" with all the indentations over the narrative, but he's always been sensual enough to express his feelings in "private". A middle class man in that "thanga mudila" state, and just at the moment Sukanya says "thappu panravaal-ku...etc", like PR says, he gets a bit "social", and not "personal". that's why when he's about to leave, Words are ruled out and for the grunted man, the "word of farewell" is the kiss. :)

[MADDY]

Once again, I'm referring the "events", and how the "theme" fails at face value, if not for the specifics. Tell me how this film is more than just an adrenaline rush for the youth? The film lacks understanding of its themes. As insensitive as Siddarth killing his father, or the youth taking up "violence", (inspired with the play they got to enact). Is this "rebellion history" key to solutions? does Imperialism compare to the politician (Is he a right-wing or left-wing leader?).

Thilak - i think we are traversing tangential to each other here.......it was exactly these points for which i liked the movie..........they are youth - listless, clueless - in state of "Khalbali" ......the song just appears before the madhavan killing, and the death spurs them to such acts on a "bhagat singh" base.....absolutely mesmerising idea........and the beauty of the movie lies in equating Imperialists of those days to right wingers of today :clap: ....wasnt the saffron presence enuf to prove the politicians were rightists :wink:


Mehra is just showing an "instinctive" reaction of one such carefree youth. The denouement that they face their death with "smile" is more of a "nod". Though, I would have to give it to the film regarding the sincerity

i dunno if u had watched KT - jeeva says "murders are planned in movies only.....in real life its instinctive"........:clap: ........i thot, this was bought out very well in RDB, Hey Ram or AE (madhavan murdering his long terms aide) - its the instinctive reaction of clueless/restless youth inspired by freedom struggle - i think we have to stop here :lol:

(btw, i absolutely love hey ram for the way characters were built and the script was moved.......its a story tellers dream i agree :D ....and i felt Saketh ram's outburst and Daljit singh(aamir in RDB) were similar - its just my opinion :D )

[vijayr]

I too havent felt that the Kamal-Sukanya kiss scene was entirely necessary. It just didnt seem quite a good fit at that time. A lot of people scoff at the notion that Indians dont lip kiss and that lip-kissing is a western thing and thats why it doesnt look quite natural on screen. But that is not even my point.It's just that it felt a little abrupt in that scene.Did'nt fit in with the rest of Kamal's character portrayal. Maybe if he had did it to Gauthami in devar Magan during Potri paadadi Ponne song I would'nt be saying anything. In that scene from Mahandhi though, it seemed a little out of place. Of course hardcore Kamal fans are going to come up with some far-fetched interpretations(which even Kamal might not be aware of) to defend that scene :-)

Mahanadhi aside, I have always thought that Kamal's problem as a director was Kamal the actor. Kamal has to have his usual Kamalisms that detract from the movie. Casting himself as Virumandi was a case in point. He should have just stuck to directing that movie IMO. Pasupathy and the other guy who played the Peikaaman role, Napoleon were all realistic. I could see only Kamal the star and not Virumandi in several scenes, especially the romantic scenes and when he cries after his mother's death. And as Vairamuthu pointed out to Kamal, Kamal's appearance itself(his skin color specifically) didnt quite help with the authenticity either and stuck out like a sore thumb even in stills.

[thilak4life]

Vijay,

First up, Welcome back. :) BTW, PR's interpretation is one of the comprehensive takes I've read, and it's conclusive from the evidence of the film alone! He picks up the events in the film, and not his own "imaginative" events. Regarding "interpretations", you should refer what Rosenbaum has got to say about Kiarostami, and his works. :)

Maddy,

This is tiring for both of us, accepted. :) Here's my point:

Saketh of Hey! Ram could be instinctive, but it was accentuated, and propagated by the collective "Hindutva" if you will, that's where Abhayankar comes in. Moreover, The theme itself isn't instinctive, and the film progresses way beyond all that (heck, it's not Saketh's massacre down the streets, and a story of a raging animal, with the proverbial thirst of vengeance if you insist). The film takes a microcosm of the riots, and deals with this "individual construct", while the sum of it, offers a macroscopic viewpoint to partition, Gandhi, Hindutva, politics, religion, identity, sex, and violence. I don't think it will get us anywhere to compare this, with Ayutha Ezhuthu or RDB.

(First up, Ayutha Ezhuthu could be a lowpoint for Mani's stature, with its OTT-ness from Michael's characterization to what not. But I still prefer this over RDB)
Unlike Ayutha Ezhuthu, where Inba kills, he's a thug who is an aspirant, and I read that move to be "calculative" than instinctive. Here again, the theme itself isn't instinctive, even with Inba's storyline (which is my favorite by the way) Contrast that to the shallow RDB, which is way over-the-head, and its gist is purely instinctive (thus rendering a juvenile politics, not to mention the inferiority of its themes).

[vijayr]

thilak, why all this name throwing like Kiraostomi and Rosenbaum and so on ? Who are we trying to impress here? :-) As far as Hey Ram is concerned, I will stick to MY interpretations of that film and would also consider any well-written reviews/opinions that appeared in local mags, websites and so on for additional insight.

[thilak4life]

thilak, why all this name throwing like Kiraostomi and Rosenbaum and so on ? Who are we trying to impress here? :-) As far as Hey Ram is concerned, I will stick to MY interpretations of that film and would also consider any well-written reviews/opinions that appeared in local mags, websites and so on for additional insight.

I'm not impressing by pulling that example. You could stick to your interpretation. I'm just saying how the critique's "interpretations" varies from what the filmmaker wants to convey. IOW, the writer's intent could vary with what is being projected by the director, so the interprations could vary. But, I'm just saying how these "interpretations" might defer from what the writer/filmmaker might have originally thought of it! This is true for every "critique"! :)

Rosenbaum is a critic, and in his critiquing of Kiarostami's films, contemplates the quality of "interpreting" brilliantly. Kiarostami believes and invites the viewer's dimension to his films. The book that Rosenbaum co-wrote on Kiarostami is highly recommended. This in response to your comment on "far-fetched interpretations". (having said that, the one that PR proposed was well within the film's scope)

[vijayr]

"This in response to your comment on "far-fetched interpretations"."

I was not mentioning that specifically in response to Prabhu Ram or whoever it is you are referring to. I was in general taking a dig at hardcore Kamal fans who would come up with their own contrived interpretations to defend loopholes/inconsistencies in Kamal's screenplay. Once you have made up your mind beforehand that a certain film/actor is really brilliant it is always possible to come up with some explanations to explain away loopholes. I have seen it in other instances too, not just Kamal.

[equanimus]

What I actually don't get is how "disrupting" can a single scene be. I ask this in all earnestness because there's no other response I am able to come up with, except to say, "it worked for me."

There's nothing much at stake to "defend" here (if you loved the film, that is), as far as I see. Some "small" scenes and plot developments may not be compelling for some, but why "exclusively" discuss them? Why "exclusively" question whether a kissing scene was "necessary" for a film? How about the "necessity" of good ol' fight sequences? (Not taking a dig at supposedly "commercial" films here, just to pick a widely accepted "standard scene.")

[thilak4life]

"This in response to your comment on "far-fetched interpretations"."

I was not mentioning that specifically in response to Prabhu Ram or whoever it is you are referring to. I was in general taking a dig at hardcore Kamal fans who would come up with their own contrived interpretations to defend loopholes/inconsistencies in Kamal's screenplay. Once you have made up your mind beforehand that a certain film/actor is really brilliant it is always possible to come up with some explanations to explain away loopholes. I have seen it in other instances too, not just Kamal.

I agree..

[vijayr]

"There's nothing much at stake to defend here, as far as I see. Some "small" scenes and plot developments may not be compelling for some, but why "exclusively" discuss them?"

Because they stick out like a sore thumb sometimes. Plus in Kamal's case it is more of a pattern, not a solitary occurrence

[thilak4life]

What I actually don't get is how "disrupting" can a single scene be. I ask this in all earnestness because there's no other response I am able to come up with, except to say, "it worked for me."

There's nothing much at stake to "defend" here (if you loved the film, that is), as far as I see. Some "small" scenes and plot developments may not be compelling for some, but why "exclusively" discuss them? Why "exclusively" question whether a kissing scene was "necessary" for a film? How about the "necessity" of good ol' fight sequences? (Not taking a dig at supposedly "commercial" films here, just to pick a widely accepted "standard scene.")

Just one word: :shaking: Cult-ure :shaking:

(this "pattern" of kissing is something that our Indians don't take lightly)

[equanimus]

Vijayr,
But, does it really stick out like a sore thumb in 'mahAnadhi'? It's a small scene, sensitively done (that's my opinion, of course), there's nothing that could startle or shock the audience. It just gets over without ruffling any feathers. I seriously don't get what could be actually off-putting or ruffling about that scene. With due respect, this seems to have more to do with the "oh, wait, didn't he just show them kiss each other!" audience than the filmmaker. (I understand someone raising questions on the surreal lovemaking scenes -- or, should I say "love-taking" scenes, considering how it is depicted? -- in Hey! Ram. They're of "significant" length in the film, and they would stick out, even if not like a sore thumb, if not well made. I thought it was very well made again, but that's besides the point.)

[vijayr]

Actually Hey Ram scenes didnt stick out like a sore thumb at all for me, because those scenes were weaved carefully into the film. The initial love making scene was a portrayal of Kamal-Rani's intimacy(maybe the length or the extent will be debatable) and the second one to show Kamal's transformation. What stuck out like a sore thumb in Hey Ram rather was the unsubtle tacky graphics. The mahanadhi kissing scene was just abrupt and felt foisted upon(like the famous Punnagai Mannan scene). In actual length it was only a few seconds I agree but still...I guess Kamal's past reputation from his 80s films doesnt help much either. That might have something to do with how each one of us interpret those scenes

[equanimus]

Actually Hey Ram scenes didnt stick out like a sore thumb at all for me, because those scenes were weaved carefully into the film. The initial love making scene was a portrayal of Kamal-Rani's intimacy(maybe the length or the extent will be debatable) and the second one to show Kamal's transformation.
So, we're on the same page on Hey! Ram, after all. Of course, I think the depiction of Saket Ram's sexuality in the two lovemaking sequences is actually superb. But, I still wonder why you say, "the length or the extent" may be debatable. And, what'd the point of that debate? On whether it was so overly long that it was boring? It surely doesn't look like that, so what else is specifically debatable about the length or "the extent" (whatever that means) of a lovemaking sequence? Why should there be any diffidence at all while watching that scene, so to say?


The mahanadhi kissing scene was just abrupt and felt foisted upon(like the famous Punnagai Mannan scene). In actual length it was only a few seconds I agree but still...I guess Kamal's past reputation from his 80s films doesnt help much either. That might have something to do with how each one of us interpret those scenes
I'm glad you said that. When I see that scene in mahAnadhi, honestly, I don't view it with any suspicion, keeping Kamal's "past reputation" in mind, whatever it is like. And, I think it's sensitively filmed.

[vijayr]

"I'm glad you said that. When I see that scene in mahAnadhi, honestly, I don't view it with any suspicion, keeping Kamal's "past reputation" in mind, whatever it is like."

Well, he has created that reputation himself and he cant escape it. For a lot of us it is not possible to forget that while watching that scene. Anyway thats not the only reason I thought the scene was foisted upon.


"But, I still wonder why you say, "the length or the extent" may be debatable. And, what'd the point of that debate? On whether it was so overly long that it was boring?"

Some people might feel that the initial scenes were probably a bit too long and indulgent. I can see from where they are coming. I didnt feel that way, by the way.

[thineshan54321]

sry to bring this in here. but someone here already talked about TZP (aamir's movie). wow, what a movie it was. my eyes were literally wet watching the movie. meticulously handled script. just amazing.

[Devar Magan]

sry to bring this in here. but someone here already talked about TZP (aamir's movie). wow, what a movie it was. my eyes were literally wet watching the movie. meticulously handled script. just amazing. isnt this supposed to be the marmayogi thread??

[rajasaranam]

I'm not impressing by pulling that example. You could stick to your interpretation. I'm just saying how the critique's "interpretations" varies from what the filmmaker wants to convey. IOW, the writer's intent could vary with what is being projected by the director, so the interprations could vary. But, I'm just saying how these "interpretations" might defer from what the writer/filmmaker might have originally thought of it! This is true for every "critique"! :)


Death of the author (or artist/creator) happened when Roland Barthe's Declared it in the 60's :) So we are here in a post-modern world where our interpretations are more important than the others / the author.

[rajasaranam]

What I actually don't get is how "disrupting" can a single scene be. I ask this in all earnestness because there's no other response I am able to come up with, except to say, "it worked for me."

There's nothing much at stake to "defend" here (if you loved the film, that is), as far as I see. Some "small" scenes and plot developments may not be compelling for some, but why "exclusively" discuss them? Why "exclusively" question whether a kissing scene was "necessary" for a film? How about the "necessity" of good ol' fight sequences? (Not taking a dig at supposedly "commercial" films here, just to pick a widely accepted "standard scene.")

It could be disrupting in the sense, that the flow of the movie is getting disturbed and may alienate the viewer from what he was being made to believe earlier.
Do you really want to standardize kissing scenes like Fight sequences in a commercial movie. there are more hindi flicks coming nowadays with the same purpose. Iam not questioning them. Iam questioning not out of becoming a moral police but because I've observed Kamalhassan doing these kind of scenes just as a showoff or to be a rebel in the indian context, not because his script needed those scenes.
Room pottu thanniyaa adichittu 'Perarasu' entha edathula puch dialogue vaikalaamnnu yosikira mathiri Kamal entha edathula ellam possibly Kiss pannalaam / heroine moanthu paakalaam/ Matter scene vaikalaamnnu yosikiraar. If the script needed it really, let him do it Iam not against it.
What was the need of those intimate Love scenes and Fight sequences during the flash back in 'Anbe Sivam' Did it build the character of 'Nallasivam' or did those sequences boosted up 'Kamal's heroism for his fans?
Same way 'it worked' against the movie 'Mahanadhi' is my contention.
the discussion is not happening against kissing/bedroom scenes. Go back to previous pages to know that the discussion is happening - for and against Kamal the actor vs kamal the director. Iam here To support Kamal the Director who should alienate himself from Kamal the Actor.

[thilak4life]

Thineshan,

Yeah, I did criticize TZP, but I liked the film. Though I'm no sob, I thought the film had some geniune moments. however, I certainly don't take "poignancy" of the films to be creative/artistic brilliance (for example, Anjali remains a truly forgettable Mani Ratnam film) For a more relevant example, Cheran. Or films like "Paruthiveeran" or "Kalloori" which released recently.

[thilak4life]

RS, Some ciricles are not modernist to this day, few sections dwell on conflicting postmodernism, and we also face the dawn of hypermodernism. :) As for Barthes, I've read a film criticism book which deconstructs his theory, and focault's - in context of criticism. But we'll only digress more.




I'm not impressing by pulling that example. You could stick to your interpretation. I'm just saying how the critique's "interpretations" varies from what the filmmaker wants to convey. IOW, the writer's intent could vary with what is being projected by the director, so the interprations could vary. But, I'm just saying how these "interpretations" might defer from what the writer/filmmaker might have originally thought of it! This is true for every "critique"! :)


Death of the author (or artist/creator) happened when Roland Barthe's Declared it in the 60's :) So we are here in a post-modern world where our interpretations are more important than the others / the author.

[thilak4life]

Anbe Sivam's fight sequence wasn't required, and was most certainly for serving "heroism", the romantic sequences came off really bad, thanks to bad dubbing with a passive (uninspired) Kiran, the sequence doesn't accentuate the romance between Nallasivam and Bala at all. But Mahanadhi was simply sublime from the evidence of the film alone. However, I'm amazed of Kamal haasan "the director", thats the way Kamal is heading to. Right now, He's making these big projects with his brand name, because the saleable stars aren't committed or talented enough, besides Kamal saves the expense of an actor. Kamal being an actor-star, definitely has a persona thats been iconic enough for Tamil audience, it's a real challenge for him to shake out of it. Looking ahead, I see him taking the director's hat in less than five years, "full time" that is! As for "kissing" or even "nudity",etc to be picked out, it's the hypocrisy thats exhibited here, mainly because he's an Indian. To me, it's nothing but a "sensual" quality. The "real" offensive elements are sexism, "regressive" female protagonists, and some of the socially accepted "mores". They'll deny this, but it's circuitous enough to not realize.

[vnkatkumar]

Anbe Sivam's fight sequence wasn't required, and was most certainly for serving "heroism", the romantic sequences came off really bad, thanks to bad dubbing with a passive (uninspired) Kiran, the sequence doesn't accentuate the romance between Nallasivam and Bala at all. But Mahanadhi was simply sublime from the evidence of the film alone. However, I'm amazed of Kamal haasan "the director", thats the way Kamal is heading to. Right now, He's making these big projects with his brand name, because the saleable stars aren't committed or talented enough, besides Kamal saves the expense of an actor. Kamal being an actor-star, definitely has a persona thats been iconic enough for Tamil audience, it's a real challenge for him to shake out of it. Looking ahead, I see him taking the director's hat in less than five years, "full time" that is! As for "kissing" or even "nudity",etc to be picked out, it's the hypocrisy thats exhibited here, mainly because he's an Indian. To me, it's nothing but a "sensual" quality. The "real" offensive elements are sexism, "regressive" female protagonists, and some of the socially accepted "mores". They'll deny this, but it's circuitous enough to not realize.

Hey Wait! I think there is something fundamentally wrong with your POV. First regarding the kissing scenes no ones against it just that his inclusion or insertion of those scenes into the script seems rather contrived and the scenes per se don't convey the intended
feeling and end up being neither erotic nor sensual only repulsive and vulgar to say the least. These scenes don't have to titillate but their depiction in Kamal's movies seems rather grouse. Also he hasn't matured as a filmmaker and too much is being made out of him especially for someone who has been in the industry for 3 decades his films spell immaturity in every scene. Anbe sivam was by far the closest he could get to making a good film but he has to invariably portray his character as one which is heroic and the get up for his face during the second half of the film after the accident was pure gimmicks reasons for my questioning his get up are:
1. Since he never gets to confront anybody including Kiran in the movie there seems no necessity for him to appear with a scar face and evoke sympathy, sounds like nitpicking wait this is the case with most of his movies he uses them as the films USP
2.Even to Nasser and Santhanabharathy the only 2 characters he meets after the gruesome accident( i have to admit was very well picturised) he reveals his identity.
3. Mady's character was well etched out but towards teh end it is belittled very much like what he did to Sriram Abhyankar's in Hey Ram

Now when you have great young talent like Vasantha Balan, Radha Mohan,Balaji Shakthivel(not very young) and Venkat Prabhu churning out amazing stuff doesn't it make you guys wonder how somebody with 3 decades of experience in the industry and talks about good cinema in every opportunity can't make one complete film till date.Another great comparison would be Aamir Khan whose first directorial venture TZP was an amazing effort and another round of applause for not trying to hog the limelight as an actor.
Forget all of this, he could at least finance good cinema the way Shankar and prakash Raj are doing and not just sit there and crib about audience not being appreciative of quality work. He is someone who blows his horns so loud that appreciating his efforts has come to be identified as understanding quality work.

[thilak4life]

a) Vulgarity as perceived by a "kiss" between the lead characters is subjective. We were discussing Mahanadhi, and there's no convincing argument to refute. So, one could very well put up a statement, but one should back it up with arguments. So far "none"..
b) Anbe Sivam is his less convincing than Hey! ram, Virumandi, Mahanadhi, Guna, etc. That's as per my estimation.
c) Nalla sivam being ugly looking is a key element to the film, as his countenance is contrasted to Anbarasu's. Madhavan's role being diminished is not true. But his role wasn't a convincing opponent so to say. And, I don't see a focal point of comparing it to Abhayankar.
d) I don't think much of Vasantha Balan, Radha Mohan ( I did like Azhagiye Theeye to some extent). I liked Balaji Sakthivel's Kaadhal and Venkat Prabhu's Chennai-28. As per my estimation, Mani Ratnam and Kamal haasan are the two best tamil filmmakers alive/dead. You shall agree to disagree or disagree to agree.
e) "Heroism" in Kamal haasan film is at minimum. I don't think Saketh, Guna, Nanda kumar, Sandiyar (yes, read it again) are heroic. Nalla Sivam is.
f) As per my experience, Kamal's films gets better in repeated views. And, "understanding the quality" is a myth. But "deconstructing" what you see is a key part of his films. As per his interviews, he seems to support Tamil audience every day. What you said is new(s) to me..

[vijayr]

"Now when you have great young talent like Vasantha Balan, Radha Mohan,Balaji Shakthivel(not very young) and Venkat Prabhu churning out amazing stuff doesn't it make you guys wonder how somebody with 3 decades of experience in the industry and talks about good cinema in every opportunity can't make one complete film till date."

Good point. But it will fall on deaf ears of hardcore Kamal fans. Kamal's self-indulgence, narcissm prevents the director in him to do a near-perfect job of executing the idea. His ideas are innovative, where he falls short is the execution. He is unsure of his audience(as he himself has confessed at times) and it reflects in the product.

And Kamal cannot be placed in the same league as Mani(who over a period of 2 decades has given several noteworthy films, influenced his peers, consistently maintained a minimum class in his films and has created a brand name for himself) just based on the evidence of the 2 or 3 films he has directed. Mumbai Express was a boring fiasco. Virumandi whose multiple version theme was taken from Rashomon had a disastrous KS Ravikuamresque climax. Hey Ram had tacky graphics and the lack of subtlety was appaling at times. Not to mention the flawed execution in terms of accented dialogue delivery that diluted the impact. In fact Kamal can at the most be compared with a Bala or a Selvaraghavan based on his body of work.

[Devar Magan]

vijayr :lol: no use in discussing with hypocrites like u

[thilak4life]

a)On "hardcore fans", it's immaterial. You(and I) might be a Mani fan based on "his films". So, it's his films that's being estimated end off the day. No one's going to give a platonic view. But the estimation and deconstruction has to be as objective as possible. And, The canons of criticism go beyond cinematic, and thematic aspects of the feature. It's as vast as ever, that it wouldn't be capsuled with just "preferences" in any case.

b) Few others may have a lower opinion of Mani's films, and I've read people rating likes of Thankar bachchan over him. So, it's not that you have to agree or disagree with a viewpoint. :-)

c) Nayagan from godfather or Ayutha Ezhuthu from Amore perros, TT from Butch Cassidy and Sundance kid, eh, even Anjali from ET are called as "lifts" like Virumandi/Rashomon. But pray tell us what are these "lifts". Paraphrasing one of my favorite critics, Analogizing Virumandi is a disservice to Rashomon, as they are fundamentally different narrations. and, the film itself is beyond these "narratives". The most important "aspect" of both the films are opposite. Heck, even "The life of david gale" is being brought up by few! LOL. This exercise reminds of flames like "Hotel Rwanda" is a remake of "Schindler's list" among netizens, as absurd as it may sound. Started as an attempt to pride the findings (inspirations/copies) , it has come thus far :-)

[equanimus]

Do you really want to standardize kissing scenes like Fight sequences in a commercial movie. there are more hindi flicks coming nowadays with the same purpose. Iam not questioning them.
No, I don't want to standardize kissing scenes in films or any such thing, nor am I talking about all films Kamal Haasan has bestowed upon us. I was just saying that I don't understand what is so conspicuous or sticking out about the kissing scene in 'mahAnadhi.' It gets over in a whisker. The "suspicion" with which it's being viewed genuinely baffles me. I was just expressing my surprise at the way a small and unobtrusive scene such as that can hinder or disrupt the experience of watching the whole film.


Iam questioning not out of becoming a moral police but because I've observed Kamalhassan doing these kind of scenes just as a showoff or to be a rebel in the indian context, not because his script needed those scenes.
Room pottu thanniyaa adichittu 'Perarasu' entha edathula puch dialogue vaikalaamnnu yosikira mathiri Kamal entha edathula ellam possibly Kiss pannalaam / heroine moanthu paakalaam/ Matter scene vaikalaamnnu yosikiraar. If the script needed it really, let him do it Iam not against it.
"Is this necessary?" is such an irrelevant question to be asked by the audience. Clauses like "if the script needed it really" or declarations like "the script demands it" etc. don't make sense unless it's the filmmaker who's musing on those lines (when he's making the film, of course). Coming from a film-watcher, that's such a fundamentalist viewpoint about making a film.
Nothing is necessary in a film. No kissing scene can ever be necessary for a film. For example, many western critics have great praise for Satyajit Ray for the beautiful way in which portrays the intimacy between Apu and his wife in 'Apur Sansar' without even showing them once kiss or embrace each other. (Instead we see a note in Apu's cigarette packet reminding him of a promise he made, the new curtains in the house, and so on.) And, that is so beautiful.
Ultimately, we'd never know why he didn't have a kissing scene, and that's completely irrelevant. It's probably because Ray never thought of filming their intimacy that way, or probably because he just conformed to the then norms. Or probably because Sharmila Tagore (or her mother for that matter; or, for discussion's sake, even Soumitra Chatterjee!) refused to go with such a scene. In that very same vein, it's irrelevant to ask why Kamal adds (or even, why Kamal feels hardpressed to add, if you will) a kiss scene in many films of his, and even absurd to unreservedly "question" every kissing scene in all his films just on these grounds. They're all different scenes in different films. It works, or it doesn't, be it a kiss scene or any other scene.


I've observed Kamalhassan doing these kind of scenes just as a showoff or to be a rebel in the indian context, not because his script needed those scenes.
If you had just questioned what's so great about "pushing the envelope" on these lines, I don't think there's anything great about it either (just in case my bringing up 'Apur Sansar' here doesn't make it clear!). I'd not even have bothered to write all this if that were the case.


What was the need of those intimate Love scenes and Fight sequences during the flash back in 'Anbe Sivam' Did it build the character of 'Nallasivam' or did those sequences boosted up 'Kamal's heroism for his fans?
I wasn't talking about 'anbE sivam' at all. So, I'll let that pass. I've opined enough about the film elsewhere. (Why do you think -- if at all you do -- I'm going to defend anything that has Kamal in it?) And, I appreciate the way you place your criticisms now. Instead of simply "questioning" the "validity" of kissing scenes in his films.


for and against Kamal the actor vs kamal the director. Iam here To support Kamal the Director who should alienate himself from Kamal the Actor.
I am a much bigger fan of Kamal the filmmaker than Kamal the actor myself. So, you're not at all alone when you're saying that, "[Kamal the Director] should alienate himself from Kamal the Actor."


the discussion is not happening against kissing/bedroom scenes. Go back to previous pages to know that the discussion is happening
I didn't say it is, nor did I suggest so in my post. You may as well read my post again. Over and out.

[vijayr]

Except for hardcore fan(atics) like Mr. devar magan here most here will readily acknowledge Kamal Haasan's numerous lifts from sources. In some cases subtle inspirations and in other cases like Magalir Mattum/Avvai shanmughi, more blatant.But the list is huge. As for Virumandi from Rashomon I only said that the multiple-version concept was similiar. Didnt say that the whole movie was a lift.But a LOT of Kamal films have been either inspired, or have had scenes lifted blatantly. You cant try to deny these by bringing up far-fetched resemblances of Mani's films to Hollywood films. Anjali from ET? LOL. Is it about that Vegam Vegam pogum pogum song? Mani's inspirations have been few and far in between considering his body of work. Magalir Mattum was a shameful lift from 9 to 5, almost scene-by-scene.

[thineshan54321]

Except for hardcore fan(atics) like Mr. devar magan here most here will readily acknowledge Kamal Haasan's numerous lifts from sources. In some cases subtle inspirations and in other cases like Magalir Mattum/Avvai shanmughi, more blatant.But the list is huge. As for Virumandi from Rashomon I only said that the multiple-version concept was similiar. Didnt say that the whole movie was a lift.But a LOT of Kamal films have been either inspired, or have had scenes lifted blatantly. You cant try to deny these by bringing up far-fetched resemblances of Mani's films to Hollywood films. Anjali from ET? LOL. Is it about that Vegam Vegam pogum pogum song? Mani's inspirations have been few and far in between considering his body of work. Magalir Mattum was a shameful lift from 9 to 5, almost scene-by-scene.

i am no anti-kamal but even thenali was a lift. just stating the facts.

[vnkatkumar]

a)On "hardcore fans", it's immaterial. You(and I) might be a Mani fan based on "his films". So, it's his films that's being estimated end off the day. No one's going to give a platonic view. But the estimation and deconstruction has to be as objective as possible. And, The canons of criticism go beyond cinematic, and thematic aspects of the feature. It's as vast as ever, that it wouldn't be capsuled with just "preferences" in any case.

b) Few others may have a lower opinion of Mani's films, and I've read people rating likes of Thankar bachchan over him. So, it's not that you have to agree or disagree with a viewpoint. :-)

c) Nayagan from godfather or Ayutha Ezhuthu from Amore perros, TT from Butch Cassidy and Sundance kid, eh, even Anjali from ET are called as "lifts" like Virumandi/Rashomon. But pray tell us what are these "lifts". Paraphrasing one of my favorite critics, Analogizing Virumandi is a disserevice to Rashomon, as they are fundamentally different narrations. and, the film itself is beyond these "narratives". The most important "aspect" of both the films are opposite. Heck, even "The life of david gale" is being brought up by few! LOL. This exercise reminds of flames like "Hotel Rwanda" is a remake of "Schindler's list" among netizens, as absurd as it may sound. Started as an attempt to pride the findings (inspirations/copies) , it has come thus far :-)



Gues you guys are missing a point! All i am trying to say is that be it acting or direction Kamal has tried to position himself as a thinking man's actor so much so that all who appreciate him or try to put themselves in that category. Now as far as his direction and films are concerned, just leave his image behind and try to list out the honestly all the good films you watched in the last 10 years or more and you would be surprised o find that his films don't feature anywhere unles you take his films purely b'cos he was in it. The same holds good for his acting as well. For him to make simple realistic films he has a long way to go. Hasn't it ever occurred to you that his films never dealt with simple close to life topics but always tried to hit larger than life stories even most of his characters are barely identifiable let alone being able to relate to them. Now as far as lifts of stories are concerned that is something i have a different take on, tht has no bearing to me i watch movies in absolution and all these stories of lifts and inspiration are pure media sensationalizing them even if they truly are the very attempt of placing them in a local setting amounts for creativity. If you were to look at things that way all love stories that deal with family feuds are lifts of Rome and Juliet while all stories about power struggle and the likes are inspired by Macbeth. Even Ramayana and Mahabharatha have inspired many a stories in the west as well, guess that is a topic we should put to rest when gaging a filmmakers prowess, only his manifestation should be analyzed if at all it is worthy of any, i don't find Kamal's bod of work worthy of it i entered this discussion to mainly clear this misnomer about his abilities. Be fans of good cinema not good PR skills.

[A.ANAND]

YOW! UNNGA SANDAI ELLAM TAMIL FILM SECTION-LA VECHUKUNNGA :huh: ITHU MUSIC SECTION...TAMILMUSIC MATTUM DISCUSS PANNUNGAPPA! :banghead:

[thilak4life]

[tscii:6bf0782533]Sorry guys, Last one I promise :-)

a) Once again, it's only to broadly state your feelings about Kamal films, and how his films aren't simplistic, if it didn't work or you, then thats where it stops. Regarding "simplistic" filmmakers, I've often wondered why few sections underrate them. For example, I know a fellow cinephile who would put down Padmarajan or Bharathan for the same, as much as these filmmakers managed to be intricate about the highly refined "characters", and weave a sublime cinematic experience. The element of cinéma vérité in their films are solely missed by such prosaic views. Similarly with Kamal, eh with Hey! ram, or Virumandi, the viewer just goes by its face value to call it "larger canvass", thus the whole jazz of feud-disrupts-love/peace-triggering-conflicts for a pedestrian viewer. The fact that the films go beyond all that to a more sociopolitical context is sorely missed, and how the milieus are sculpted by the filmmaker, with his own "motifs", and "authenticity" added to the base material! I'm as much comfortable with a Vishal baradwaj or a Mani Ratnam or a Nihalani or a Benegal with their own "motifs and style", so one might even find my "bandwidth" for films to be a lot higher. Moreover, No one could dismiss the visual grammar of Kamal haasan or Mani or Antonioni or Melville, because these are "trademarks" that the filmmakers exhibit with their narratives.

b) "LOL" is precisely my reaction to Anjali/ET :-), I'm not going to defend 9-to-5 scene-to-scene as MM, Planes, trains and Automobiles to Anbe Sivam, or Mrs doubt fire to Avvai Shamughi because I've heard such "scene-to-scene" comparisons made, for samples, "BCASK to TT", "Godfather to Nayagan". To me, TT or MM are "adaptations" to the Indian context with the basic plot borrowed/lifted. The other specifics, from the office, the women's lives and their economic background of MM with a different set of events, thought it's all the more "closer" with the dead body, house, ending and other details of 9-to-5 , and the thieves, the backdrop, the booty, the chase and the denouement varies for TT - chalk and cheese actually but it would only be closer with the subplot derivation. Eh, Let's not miss Mouna Raagam from Nenjathai killathe, or Agni natchithiram from Janam (Let's not kid about that "inspired" scene from Coppola). Few have the nerve to call 'em "lifts", while they are NOT. Forget Kamal/Mani, I've liked BM's films than the original inspirations! This gives me enough acumen to like Kamal/Balu mahendra/Mani for all these instinctive findings. Which goes on to prove that I'm compassionate about Inspirations/adaptations or whatever. Moreover, Attributing What about Bob/Thenali, Vetri Vizha/Bourne series (forget even if it was adapted before), Vikram/Bond series to Kamal is false, and it would only digress if we're to discuss KSR, Prathap pothen or Sujatha. Sticking to this "findings" for instance, I've watched Aldomovar's Tie me up! Tie me down!, it only shows how people simply pride these findings, and they have not much to do with a film like Guna! It gets worse with Hey! Ram purportedly inspired by Barabba, once again it never ceases to amaze us about our fellow netizens, largely the defiant crowd in their 20s. Eh, these guys might have instantly suggested Laxmibhai as a plagiarised version of Jeanne d'arc, had these been films. That's why I brought "Hotel Rwanda/Schindler's list" to parody this very notion. Blame my vindications on my "maturity" with which I approach cinema, especially with IFI or IFM. I've read IR referred as WCM deva, or ARR as a WM copycat, yet again they miss the whole point of "inspirations"! I myself have managed to go beyond this "notion", as with time, I've become a mature student of cinema. That it's amusing to discuss "a copy of a copy of a copy" like a Jack would say. No offence[/tscii:6bf0782533]

[baba88]

Hey guys,

Read this. I got from IR Thread. Thanks to "Rajaalltheway"

From: rajaalltheway on Wed Jan 23 9:34:55 2008. [Full View]


when i was working in filmcity a few months ago i first heard about kamal and adlabs joining hands.one day the office staff were on their toes and i learned that Kamalji himself was there talking to Pooja Shetty and Pranab Kapadia(head of Adlabs UK).by evening i was pestering the receptionist and she asked me who Yuvan Shankar raja was...Kamal wanted this guy to do music while pooja firm on ARR..i felt so happy,kamal atleast mentioned YSR s name.Shiny told me kamal was talking about some Raja whenever music was the subject.My next mission is to nag Kalyanam sir and squeeze something out since somebody mentioned in the posts about the change of producer .


source: YSR Thread

[thineshan54321]

Hey guys,

Read this. I got from IR Thread. Thanks to "Rajaalltheway"

From: rajaalltheway on Wed Jan 23 9:34:55 2008. [Full View]


when i was working in filmcity a few months ago i first heard about kamal and adlabs joining hands.one day the office staff were on their toes and i learned that Kamalji himself was there talking to Pooja Shetty and Pranab Kapadia(head of Adlabs UK).by evening i was pestering the receptionist and she asked me who Yuvan Shankar raja was...Kamal wanted this guy to do music while pooja firm on ARR..i felt so happy,kamal atleast mentioned YSR s name.Shiny told me kamal was talking about some Raja whenever music was the subject.My next mission is to nag Kalyanam sir and squeeze something out since somebody mentioned in the posts about the change of producer .


source: YSR Thread

i knew kamal would try to do something like this. when ppl said kamal and ARR gonna join hands i knew there was something fishy. kamal would never want to work with ARR unless he is undercontrol from producer or director. raja familya katikittu allatum. y such arrogance???

[littlemaster1982]

Thineshan, let us wait for the official confirmation. Why fight over something which is not sure :)

[thineshan54321]

Thineshan, let us wait for the official confirmation. Why fight over something which is not sure :)

thats tru, but i have a strong feeling that it wont happen LM... knowing kamal, he will surely pull something like ARR had a cold, so i had to go for YSR...

[littlemaster1982]

Thineshan, let us wait for the official confirmation. Why fight over something which is not sure :)

thats tru, but i have a strong feeling that it wont happen LM... knowing kamal, he will surely pull something like ARR had a cold, so i had to go for YSR...

First let it happen, what say ;)

[thineshan54321]

Thineshan, let us wait for the official confirmation. Why fight over something which is not sure :)

thats tru, but i have a strong feeling that it wont happen LM... knowing kamal, he will surely pull something like ARR had a cold, so i had to go for YSR...

First let it happen, what say ;)

ya lets wait.

[Mahen]

Kamal is a brilliant actor but i never liked his narcissitic/possesive attitude...He wants to take control of everything..No wonder he n ARR can never get along..Even in VV, it clearly shows he n gautham had some disagreements..It was obvious during the VV's 100 days function, he n gautham never spoke to each other and kamal was like in vaithairichal that VV was a big success..He didnt look happy in the function..

LM, dun wory ARR-kamal combo is not gona happen..Trust me

[Ramakrishna]

Kamal is a brilliant actor but i never liked his narcissitic/possesive attitude...He wants to take control of everything..No wonder he n ARR can never get along..Even in VV, it clearly shows he n gautham had some disagreements..It was obvious during the VV's 100 days function, he n gautham never spoke to each other and kamal was like in vaithairichal that VV was a big success..He didnt look happy in the function..

LM, dun wory ARR-kamal combo is not gona happen..Trust me

neenga vera yaen ipdi ellaam pesareenga? Sila kamal fans ennavo ARR fans thaan thevai illaama "kamal hates ARR" nu rumour kilaparaangannu solraanga.

[vijayr]

"I'm not going to defend 9-to-5 scene-to-scene as MM, Planes, trains and Automobiles to Anbe Sivam, or Mrs doubt fire to Avvai Shamughi because I've heard such "scene-to-scene" comparisons made, for samples, "BCASK to TT", "Godfather to Nayagan". "


The difference is, in 2 or 3 of Mani's films there was just a scene or two that bore resemblance to the original. More of a tribute to the original. Not an entire movie was blatantly lifted like Magalir Mattum.
And Mani's inpirations are few and far in between considering his body of work as a director. Magalir Mattum was less of an adaptation and more of a lift. You cannot drag the few inspirations of other directors here or throw other names in a desperate attempt to defend Kamal. Sorry. Just accept that your idol(I know that you think the world of Kamal) has filched a lot of movies and lets move on. And Kamal doesnt even have the gall to admit that he lifted. Notice how strongly he denied Avvai Shanmugi from Mrs. Doubtfire claiming that his story came first. Thats the classic reaction of a culprit caught red-handed - denial. Or maybe Kamal is using the same line of defense like that girl Kaavya Viswanathan who was nailed for plagiarism and later defended herself by saying she "internalized" the passages of the original book. Kamal must have "internalized" all those movies :-) And I could care less about what others think of Kamal/Mani. I am not here to defend or negate their opinions.

"it only shows how people simply pride these findings, and they have not much to do with a film like Guna! It gets worse with Hey! Ram purportedly inspired by Barabba, once again it never ceases to amaze us about our fellow netizens, largely the defiant crowd in their 20s"

you cant blame them. Kamal's reputation is such. Like how he flicked MMKR from a Hindi screenwriter and refused to acknowledge and did so only after the writer threatened to go to court. Dasavatharam seemed to have a similar problem as well but Kamal seems to have escaped this time.

[Devar Magan]

this forum is full of self-proclaimed cinema experts, who are actually like a peeteru gumbal.. :lol:

[A.ANAND]

pothunda sami thangga mudiyilada ayya!vittudunngappa :cry: ... :lol:

[thilak4life]

Once again, you're commenting on me, and not on the points. :) Duh, you don't have to think a lot about "idols", etc. I'm a big Kamal haasan fan, just as much as I idolize many other filmmakers. Don't worry about me! :) And, you don't seem to look at "films", but rather as "stars", fans, etc. Perhaps why others don't even care to reply. Now, the other handles (those few other ids that springs out of the blue) could comment. Once again, few "sweeping" statements could be made without dissecting much of the film. And yeah, DM quite rightly pointed out the "hypocrisy", I should have known. For all I care, you might be some #@$@$'s fan!

And I could care less about what others think of Kamal/Mani. I am not here to defend or negate their opinions.

how ironic, I have nothing to comment. You stick to your opinion. I was making my own "tangential" comments. I wonder why you cared to comment thus far. :wave:

[thineshan54321]

pothunda sami thangga mudiyilada ayya!vittudunngappa :cry: ... :lol:

srsly stop! if u guys want, open a new thread in movies section and talk about anything u want. not here, not in a music section.

[thilak4life]

DM, thinesh, Anand,

Sorry, I'm over and out!

[vijayr]

Once again, you're commenting on me, and not on the points. :)

Points? I dont recall you having any points. When I pointed out instances of Kamal's plagiarism all you could do was drag Mani rathnam and other directors, complain about their few instances of inspirations and hide behind that :-) what is YOUR point?


And, you don't seem to look at "films", but rather as "stars", fans, etc. Perhaps why others don't even care to reply.

what penaathal is this? I pointed out plagiarism which IS looking at films. Others dont have to comment because I was stating the obvious


Once again, few "sweeping" statements could be made without dissecting much of the film. And yeah, DM quite rightly pointed out the "hypocrisy", I should have known. For all I care, you might be some #@$@$'s fan!

Hypocrisy is something that the Kamal fan club here indulges in. I was trying(in vain) to drive some sense into them. I should have known that you and DM belong to the same Taambaram fan club.

I dont wish to continue this here either. Not that there is anything left to clarify.

[Devar Magan]

Once again, you're commenting on me, and not on the points. :)

Points? I dont recall you having any points. When I pointed out instances of Kamal's plagiarism all you could do was drag Mani rathnam and other directors, complain about their few instances of inspirations and hide behind that :-) what is YOUR point?


And, you don't seem to look at "films", but rather as "stars", fans, etc. Perhaps why others don't even care to reply.

what penaathal is this? I pointed out plagiarism which IS looking at films. Others dont have to comment because I was stating the obvious


Once again, few "sweeping" statements could be made without dissecting much of the film. And yeah, DM quite rightly pointed out the "hypocrisy", I should have known. For all I care, you might be some #@$@$'s fan!

Hypocrisy is something that the Kamal fan club here indulges in. I was trying(in vain) to drive some sense into them. I should have known that you and DM belong to the same Taambaram fan club.

I dont wish to continue this here either. Not that there is anything left to clarify.lets discuss all this on our aandavar's thread in tamil film section

[thineshan54321]

DM, thinesh, Anand,

Sorry, I'm over and out!

hey didnt intend to offend, u r amazing at analyzing but it just that it seemed out of place to talk about kamal etc and his directorial skills in an ARR thread. btw we will appreciate it, if u analyze ARR's music like this, it'll be fascinating to read. :)

[thilak4life]

For the final time..phew,


Points? I dont recall you having any points. When I pointed out instances of Kamal's plagiarism all you could do was drag Mani rathnam and other directors, complain about their few instances of inspirations and hide behind that Smile what is YOUR point?

I was basically making a point that every "artist" is inspired. I was speaking in context of Tamil cinema with my other favorite, Mani ratnam. Why I bring him in? Someone made a comment on few filmmakers, and I responded that I don't find them as good as Kamal or Mani. Moreover, I didn't want to digress to worlds of Tarantinos, Leones, etc. To an "artist", it's something personal, and his films often come as an "absolute" than mere "pieces" to compare to different films. This is a "layman's pride" to give such half-baked findings, without even watching these films. LOL. That's why I gave my comments comprehensively on the films that these 20s something kids gnaw about.

As one could see, you seem to have a grudge against Kamal, and clearly against his fans, and worry about it, than respond to the point. You deny, but it's for all to see. Heck, I clearly said why I find MM to be a borrowed plot. But not a "scene-to-scene", which proves that you haven't seen the original yet, and simply take a "synopsis". It gets worse with findings like Avvai shanmughi/Mrs.Doubtfire, that was my earlier point. I find this finding (of "borrowed plots") to be the same with TT/BCASK or Nayagan/Godfather. None of these are closer to what Tarantino does, or what Leone did! But these creations stand out all by themselves. Thus, I conclude that this discourse only reflects badly on your comprehending skills.

BTW, the fan clubs, do a lot more than what idiots jot on their keyboard. Now I don't know about the Tambaram?! But surely I belong to a much "saner" club than what you're in, buddy. :wave:

[thilak4life]

DM, thinesh, Anand,

Sorry, I'm over and out!

hey didnt intend to offend, u r amazing at analyzing but it just that it seemed out of place to talk about kamal etc and his directorial skills in an ARR thread. btw we will appreciate it, if u analyze ARR's music like this, it'll be fascinating to read. :)


Thanks! That I will... :)

[Nerd]

Vijayr, you have made a lot of excellent points. Salutes. Please take the debate to the tamil films section, I wish to read more :)

[MADDY]

Vijayr, you have made a lot of excellent points. Salutes. Please take the debate to the tamil films section, I wish to read more :)

:notworthy: ....esp in tamil films section where kamal films are not dissected the way they should be....pls come there vijayr

:D

[A.ANAND]

[tscii:a809d4e524]KAMALHASSAN¡¯S next film, Marmayogi, will be co-produced by Hollywood¡¯s Walt Disney Pictures.

Marmayogi, which takes its title from a former MGR movie, will begin shooting in March and will rival Robot as the most expensive Indian film ever made.

It is set in the seventh century and will feature actors and actresses from Kodambakkam and Bollywood.

Much of the movie will be filmed in Thailand. It will reunite Kamalhassan and music director AR Rahman, who worked together on Thenaali.

FROM:THE TIMES.COM[/tscii:a809d4e524]

[Devar Magan]

Vijayr, you have made a lot of excellent points. Salutes. Please take the debate to the tamil films section, I wish to read more :)

:notworthy: ....esp in tamil films section where kamal films are not dissected the way they should be....pls come there vijayr

:Dvaango vaango vaangurathukku vaango :lol:

[Gaza]

read first few posts of this thread....very gud points by rajasaranam...scholarly views frm Equanimus n tilak4life..hope i live up to their levels...i stopped at this beautiful post...very concise



Do you really want to standardize kissing scenes like Fight sequences in a commercial movie. there are more hindi flicks coming nowadays with the same purpose. Iam not questioning them.
No, I don't want to standardize kissing scenes in films or any such thing, nor am I talking about all films Kamal Haasan has bestowed upon us. I was just saying that I don't understand what is so conspicuous or sticking out about the kissing scene in 'mahAnadhi.' It gets over in a whisker. The "suspicion" with which it's being viewed genuinely baffles me. I was just expressing my surprise at the way a small and unobtrusive scene such as that can hinder or disrupt the experience of watching the whole film.


Iam questioning not out of becoming a moral police but because I've observed Kamalhassan doing these kind of scenes just as a showoff or to be a rebel in the indian context, not because his script needed those scenes.
Room pottu thanniyaa adichittu 'Perarasu' entha edathula puch dialogue vaikalaamnnu yosikira mathiri Kamal entha edathula ellam possibly Kiss pannalaam / heroine moanthu paakalaam/ Matter scene vaikalaamnnu yosikiraar. If the script needed it really, let him do it Iam not against it.
"Is this necessary?" is such an irrelevant question to be asked by the audience. Clauses like "if the script needed it really" or declarations like "the script demands it" etc. don't make sense unless it's the filmmaker who's musing on those lines (when he's making the film, of course). Coming from a film-watcher, that's such a fundamentalist viewpoint about making a film.
Nothing is necessary in a film. No kissing scene can ever be necessary for a film. For example, many western critics have great praise for Satyajit Ray for the beautiful way in which portrays the intimacy between Apu and his wife in 'Apur Sansar' without even showing them once kiss or embrace each other. (Instead we see a note in Apu's cigarette packet reminding him of a promise he made, the new curtains in the house, and so on.) And, that is so beautiful.
Ultimately, we'd never know why he didn't have a kissing scene, and that's completely irrelevant. It's probably because Ray never thought of filming their intimacy that way, or probably because he just conformed to the then norms. Or probably because Sharmila Tagore (or her mother for that matter; or, for discussion's sake, even Soumitra Chatterjee!) refused to go with such a scene. In that very same vein, it's irrelevant to ask why Kamal adds (or even, why Kamal feels hardpressed to add, if you will) a kiss scene in many films of his, and even absurd to unreservedly "question" every kissing scene in all his films just on these grounds. They're all different scenes in different films. It works, or it doesn't, be it a kiss scene or any other scene.

I really like the intimacy in Ray's films..bt if Ray is alive,he wud involve kissing etc...this is true fr many old directors who make films now..abt apur sansar..i totally agree abt the intimacy...i think Soumitra chatterjee is a brilliant actor...remember charulata? he ws again brilliant...Ray beautifully captures dat intimacy betw Amal and Charu slowly...superb film..

abt kissing,i dont think kamal has an audience capable of accepting it...i think kissing in films like abhay was very hard to sit thru..infact the romance was very bad with bad dialogues :banghead:...otherwise,his films r acceptable...heroism is irritating at times..i agree wit rajasaranam abt such minor things,bt compelling views by equanimus. :thumbsup:

[vijayr]

For the final time here too.....




I was basically making a point that every "artist" is inspired. I was speaking in context of Tamil cinema with my other favorite, Mani ratnam. Why I bring him in? Someone made a comment on few filmmakers, and I responded that I don't find them as good as Kamal or Mani. Moreover, I didn't want to digress to worlds of Tarantinos, Leones, etc. To an "artist", it's something personal, and his films often come as an "absolute" than mere "pieces" to compare to different films. This is a "layman's pride" to give such half-baked findings, without even watching these films. LOL. That's why I gave my comments comprehensively on the films that these 20s something kids gnaw about.

As one could see, you seem to have a grudge against Kamal, and clearly against his fans, and worry about it, than respond to the point. You deny, but it's for all to see. Heck, I clearly said why I find MM to be a borrowed plot. But not a "scene-to-scene", which proves that you haven't seen the original yet, and simply take a "synopsis". It gets worse with findings like Avvai shanmughi/Mrs.Doubtfire, that was my earlier point. I find this finding (of "borrowed plots") to be the same with TT/BCASK or Nayagan/Godfather. None of these are closer to what Tarantino does, or what Leone did! But these creations stand out all by themselves. Thus, I conclude that this discourse only reflects badly on your comprehending skills.


Unless one is a Kamal-worshipping fanatic, it wouldnt take much sense to realize that the extent of plagiarism in Kamal's films is on a different plane altogether, that it is totally unfair to lump Mani along with him. Mani has had his share of inspirations few and far in between compared to his overall body of work over 2 decades. But no film of his has lifted as much from the original like say, Magalir Mattum has, and he doesnt need to "adapt"(an euphemism for lifting as far as Kamal's fans are concerned) as a frequently as Kamal has to do from Hollywood films. And I HAVE seen 9-to-5 and its not just the synopsis or the overall concept but quite a few individual scenes too that have been borrowed. So save your BS for someone else. Even the climax where Kamal has to make his cameo is similar to the original film's end. They didnt even bother to change the climax. Just because the movie was Tamilized a bit(as far as background of those 3 ladies are concerned), it doesnt negate the fact that it traverses almost the exact same path as the original. A lot of individual scenes/ideas were lifted. It is laughable and a reflection on your desperate attempts to defend Kamal when you talk of Nayagan/Godfather(which just had the central concept similar) on the same level as MM/9to5( a lot of individual scenes similar, EXACT same storyline). If this were Hollywood Kamal would have had his ass sued for plagiarism for the latter. As simple as that.


BTW, the fan clubs, do a lot more than what idiots jot on their keyboard.

Yeah, now go back to pouring milk on your Aandavar cutouts. And continue to live in denial :-)

[vijayr]

Vijayr, you have made a lot of excellent points. Salutes. Please take the debate to the tamil films section, I wish to read more :)

Thanks, I have already made most of my points and if I cant make them comprehend my points here then definitely it would be futile to do so amidst their fan club members(in Kamal films section) :-)

[Gaza]

completed this thread..barring the minifights, its been a gud discussion..another beautiful post...a good analysis...i like Magalir mattum..didnt know about 9 to 5....but i dont think mani ratnam is a gud director....Bharathiraja,Mahendran are far better directors....no serious cinema lover cud relate to mani ratnam frm poor dialogues,cute heroines,pungently smart heroes,poor depiction of politics, to bad lighting...he must be left out of contention imo...other thn nayakan & mouna raagam,he hasnt made a film half as gud as Magalir mattum...he is too limited...barring that...a nice post abt inspirations...i will try to watch the originals...i hav only watched mrs.doubtfire...i prefer AS anyday..its just an inspiration wit only the plot..nicely adapted to tamil setup...


[tscii:2faf23c7d5]
a) Once again, it's only to broadly state your feelings about Kamal films, and how his films aren't simplistic, if it didn't work or you, then thats where it stops. Regarding "simplistic" filmmakers, I've often wondered why few sections underrate them. For example, I know a fellow cinephile who would put down Padmarajan or Bharathan for the same, as much as these filmmakers managed to be intricate about the highly refined "characters", and weave a sublime cinematic experience. The element of cinéma vérité in their films are solely missed by such prosaic views. Similarly with Kamal, eh with Hey! ram, or Virumandi, the viewer just goes by its face value to call it "larger canvass", thus the whole jazz of feud-disrupts-love/peace-triggering-conflicts for a pedestrian viewer. The fact that the films go beyond all that to a more sociopolitical context is sorely missed, and how the milieus are sculpted by the filmmaker, with his own "motifs", and "authenticity" added to the base material! I'm as much comfortable with a Vishal baradwaj or a Mani Ratnam or a Nihalani or a Benegal with their own "motifs and style", so one might even find my "bandwidth" for films to be a lot higher. Moreover, No one could dismiss the visual grammar of Kamal haasan or Mani or Antonioni or Melville, because these are "trademarks" that the filmmakers exhibit with their narratives.

b) "LOL" is precisely my reaction to Anjali/ET :-), I'm not going to defend 9-to-5 scene-to-scene as MM, Planes, trains and Automobiles to Anbe Sivam, or Mrs doubt fire to Avvai Shamughi because I've heard such "scene-to-scene" comparisons made, for samples, "BCASK to TT", "Godfather to Nayagan". To me, TT or MM are "adaptations" to the Indian context with the basic plot borrowed/lifted. The other specifics, from the office, the women's lives and their economic background of MM with a different set of events, thought it's all the more "closer" with the dead body, house, ending and other details of 9-to-5 , and the thieves, the backdrop, the booty, the chase and the denouement varies for TT - chalk and cheese actually but it would only be closer with the subplot derivation. Eh, Let's not miss Mouna Raagam from Nenjathai killathe, or Agni natchithiram from Janam (Let's not kid about that "inspired" scene from Coppola). Few have the nerve to call 'em "lifts", while they are NOT. Forget Kamal/Mani, I've liked BM's films than the original inspirations! This gives me enough acumen to like Kamal/Balu mahendra/Mani for all these instinctive findings. Which goes on to prove that I'm compassionate about Inspirations/adaptations or whatever. Moreover, Attributing What about Bob/Thenali, Vetri Vizha/Bourne series (forget even if it was adapted before), Vikram/Bond series to Kamal is false, and it would only digress if we're to discuss KSR, Prathap pothen or Sujatha. Sticking to this "findings" for instance, I've watched Aldomovar's Tie me up! Tie me down!, it only shows how people simply pride these findings, and they have not much to do with a film like Guna! It gets worse with Hey! Ram purportedly inspired by Barabba, once again it never ceases to amaze us about our fellow netizens, largely the defiant crowd in their 20s. Eh, these guys might have instantly suggested Laxmibhai as a plagiarised version of Jeanne d'arc, had these been films. That's why I brought "Hotel Rwanda/Schindler's list" to parody this very notion. Blame my vindications on my "maturity" with which I approach cinema, especially with IFI or IFM. I've read IR referred as WCM deva, or ARR as a WM copycat, yet again they miss the whole point of "inspirations"! I myself have managed to go beyond this "notion", as with time, I've become a mature student of cinema. That it's amusing to discuss "a copy of a copy of a copy" like a Jack would say. No offence[/tscii:2faf23c7d5]

:rotfl: this is what i think,inspirations...this phenomenon exist for musicians to writers..directors are inspired by real life,books,other films. like u said,ilayaraja n rahman are known to lift beethoven n give their own dimensions,they call it fusion...indians generally have this habit of liting wihout crediting...even when u download a film,indians never seed back..:lol:

Akira kurosawa inspired a lot frm western literature lik Dostoevsky & Shakespeare,bt made it novel by quoting them..as you quoted somewere,tarantino makes it obvious inspirations....bt thats always missing frm our Indians..when sum1 as talented as kamal does it,its a bit sad..wen his original films like mahanadi,hey ram,virumandi are much better than magalir mattum,etc...why shud he do this?..though i really love his inspired comedies....just mention the name of the book & film in the credits...so its nt going to harm..moreovr,there are super stories frm our literature,which kamal shud adapt...that will be awsum..

[thilak4life]

Thanks Gaza! You're being kind enough to club mine with scholarly posts of Equanimus, mine isn't. It's matter-of-fact. :)

Let me end this digression, and take this whole discourse to where it belongs (incl. the response to trolls), a little later.

End digression...

[MADDY]

other thn nayakan & mouna raagam,he hasnt made a film half as gud as Magalir mattum...he is too limited...

EKSI :cry:

[SoftSword]

completed this thread..barring the minifights, its been a gud discussion..another beautiful post...a good analysis...i like Magalir mattum..didnt know about 9 to 5....but i dont think mani ratnam is a gud director....Bharathiraja,Mahendran are far better directors....no serious cinema lover cud relate to mani ratnam frm poor dialogues,cute heroines,pungently smart heroes,poor depiction of politics, to bad lighting...he must be left out of contention imo...other thn nayakan & mouna raagam,he hasnt made a film half as gud as Magalir mattum...he is too limited...barring that...a nice post abt inspirations...i will try to watch the originals...i hav only watched mrs.doubtfire...i prefer AS anyday..its just an inspiration wit only the plot..nicely adapted to tamil setup...


[tscii:b4a4aa918a]
a) Once again, it's only to broadly state your feelings about Kamal films, and how his films aren't simplistic, if it didn't work or you, then thats where it stops. Regarding "simplistic" filmmakers, I've often wondered why few sections underrate them. For example, I know a fellow cinephile who would put down Padmarajan or Bharathan for the same, as much as these filmmakers managed to be intricate about the highly refined "characters", and weave a sublime cinematic experience. The element of cinéma vérité in their films are solely missed by such prosaic views. Similarly with Kamal, eh with Hey! ram, or Virumandi, the viewer just goes by its face value to call it "larger canvass", thus the whole jazz of feud-disrupts-love/peace-triggering-conflicts for a pedestrian viewer. The fact that the films go beyond all that to a more sociopolitical context is sorely missed, and how the milieus are sculpted by the filmmaker, with his own "motifs", and "authenticity" added to the base material! I'm as much comfortable with a Vishal baradwaj or a Mani Ratnam or a Nihalani or a Benegal with their own "motifs and style", so one might even find my "bandwidth" for films to be a lot higher. Moreover, No one could dismiss the visual grammar of Kamal haasan or Mani or Antonioni or Melville, because these are "trademarks" that the filmmakers exhibit with their narratives.

b) "LOL" is precisely my reaction to Anjali/ET :-), I'm not going to defend 9-to-5 scene-to-scene as MM, Planes, trains and Automobiles to Anbe Sivam, or Mrs doubt fire to Avvai Shamughi because I've heard such "scene-to-scene" comparisons made, for samples, "BCASK to TT", "Godfather to Nayagan". To me, TT or MM are "adaptations" to the Indian context with the basic plot borrowed/lifted. The other specifics, from the office, the women's lives and their economic background of MM with a different set of events, thought it's all the more "closer" with the dead body, house, ending and other details of 9-to-5 , and the thieves, the backdrop, the booty, the chase and the denouement varies for TT - chalk and cheese actually but it would only be closer with the subplot derivation. Eh, Let's not miss Mouna Raagam from Nenjathai killathe, or Agni natchithiram from Janam (Let's not kid about that "inspired" scene from Coppola). Few have the nerve to call 'em "lifts", while they are NOT. Forget Kamal/Mani, I've liked BM's films than the original inspirations! This gives me enough acumen to like Kamal/Balu mahendra/Mani for all these instinctive findings. Which goes on to prove that I'm compassionate about Inspirations/adaptations or whatever. Moreover, Attributing What about Bob/Thenali, Vetri Vizha/Bourne series (forget even if it was adapted before), Vikram/Bond series to Kamal is false, and it would only digress if we're to discuss KSR, Prathap pothen or Sujatha. Sticking to this "findings" for instance, I've watched Aldomovar's Tie me up! Tie me down!, it only shows how people simply pride these findings, and they have not much to do with a film like Guna! It gets worse with Hey! Ram purportedly inspired by Barabba, once again it never ceases to amaze us about our fellow netizens, largely the defiant crowd in their 20s. Eh, these guys might have instantly suggested Laxmibhai as a plagiarised version of Jeanne d'arc, had these been films. That's why I brought "Hotel Rwanda/Schindler's list" to parody this very notion. Blame my vindications on my "maturity" with which I approach cinema, especially with IFI or IFM. I've read IR referred as WCM deva, or ARR as a WM copycat, yet again they miss the whole point of "inspirations"! I myself have managed to go beyond this "notion", as with time, I've become a mature student of cinema. That it's amusing to discuss "a copy of a copy of a copy" like a Jack would say. No offence[/tscii:b4a4aa918a]

:rotfl: this is what i think,inspirations...this phenomenon exist for musicians to writers..directors are inspired by real life,books,other films. like u said,ilayaraja n rahman are known to lift beethoven n give their own dimensions,they call it fusion...indians generally have this habit of liting wihout crediting...even when u download a film,indians never seed back..:lol:

Akira kurosawa inspired a lot frm western literature lik Dostoevsky & Shakespeare,bt made it novel by quoting them..as you quoted somewere,tarantino makes it obvious inspirations....bt thats always missing frm our Indians..when sum1 as talented as kamal does it,its a bit sad..wen his original films like mahanadi,hey ram,virumandi are much better than magalir mattum,etc...why shud he do this?..though i really love his inspired comedies....just mention the name of the book & film in the credits...so its nt going to harm..moreovr,there are super stories frm our literature,which kamal shud adapt...that will be awsum..

yaaro orutthar inga kamal madhiri get-up matthi try panraar...
avarukku all the best...

nalla dhaan try panringa sir... but rendu moonu point konjam overa pochu.... ungalukkum oru scholar'ly image thirandu varra neratthula ipdi sodhappalaa pesi kedutthukkiteengalae sir...
:P

[Gaza]

tilak4life..waiting fr ur post..hope u dont bash me fr bashing mani ratnam :P

maddy...sry..i never like manis films..frm dialogues to acting..wat is EKSI?

softsword..neenga nallavara kettavara? :P i m a siree..nt a sir....yes..i like kamal..wats wrong? :lol:

[MADDY]

maddy...sry..i never like manis films..frm dialogues to acting..wat is EKSI?

EKSI = Enna kodumai Saravanan Idhu :lol:

u dont like mani films is one thing and to say movies like Iruvar and Kannathil Muthamittal are not "half as good" as Magalir mattum is <sorry out of adjectives> :lol:

i would say even a Alaipauthey is better constructed than Anbe sivam leave alone Magalir mattum......... 8-)

btw, from ur ur other posts i presume u r thalaivar(ARR) fan........welcome to the club..... 8-) .......ARR fan but not a mani fan is a rarity :D

[Devar Magan]

tilak4life..waiting fr ur post..hope u dont bash me fr bashing mani ratnam :P

maddy...sry..i never like manis films..frm dialogues to acting..wat is EKSI?

softsword..neenga nallavara kettavara? :P i m a siree..nt a sir....yes..i like kamal..wats wrong? :lol: gaza, i agree with u. mani's movies are very artificial sometimes. .. same kind of characters, dialogue delivery and picturisation.. irritating..

but inspite of this he has made great movies like roja, Kannathil etc..

[Gaza]

maddy...:lol: thnx nw i will also use EKSI :)

i respect ur opinion & no probs..i m a big fan of arr..bt i dont like maniratnams films other than fotography n music...the dialogues, acting n characters are very very artificial..fr eg Kannathil muthamital, i cant sit thru keerthana n maddy's acting....mani also spoils wit his manipulative scnes n sum poor dialogues abt da condition there.....& it ws big hypocrisy on mani ratnam's part to be clueless wit Iruvar....he wants us to understand mgr-karunanidhi relation..bt still employs a very fictional story with many laughable twists..mohanlal cant speak tamil,he wsnt a patch on mgr..aishwarya ws irritating..cudnt understand prakash raj's dialogues..though it made him luk like karunanadhi..:oops: too many things i cudnt stand....n alaipayuthey ws very bad..inspite of madhavan's looks,he ws acting oversmart like many mani ratnam characters,except maybe nayakan,dalapathy...everything frm romance to item songs were artificial..hav u seen the english film "love story" which mani ratnam uses in alaipayuthey? that was much bettr than alaipayuthey.

i liked magalir mattum n anbe sivam bcoz these films hav a heart n soul..one has feminism and other altruism..they at least have a right path than being clueless n halfbaked..Mani ratnam doesnt know abt reality..thats why he always escapes by twisting them to fictional....

[Gaza]

devar magan,
other than rahman music,nuthing special abt roja..my favorite film of mani is mouna raagam..i also like nayakan & dalapathi..mainly for kamal in nayakan, & rajini mammooty friendship in the latter..these films had soul to it...other films r either too cute or very artificial.

[SoftSword]

devar magan,
other than rahman music,nuthing special abt roja..my favorite film of mani is mouna raagam..i also like nayakan & dalapathi..mainly for kamal in nayakan, & rajini mammooty friendship in the latter..these films had soul to it...other films r either too cute or very artificial.

what do you think about "bombay"

[A.ANAND]

NALLA NALLA VARUTHU VAILA! :oops: :oops: :oops:

[Gaza]

sofsword...bombay is anthr rahman classic...& the camera work ws also superb like a mani film...the direction cudnt match up,it's bad depiction of the riots..less said abt the love story the bettr...such things spoil rahman n camera man's work..:oops:

[Gaza]

NALLA NALLA VARUTHU VAILA! :oops: :oops: :oops:

:ashamed: i respect ur opinion like im entitled to mine..:)

[MADDY]

maddy...:lol: thnx nw i will also use EKSI :)

i respect ur opinion & no probs..i m a big fan of arr..bt i dont like maniratnams films other than fotography n music...the dialogues, acting n characters are very very artificial..fr eg Kannathil muthamital, i cant sit thru keerthana n maddy's acting....mani also spoils wit his manipulative scnes n sum poor dialogues abt da condition there.....& it ws big hypocrisy on mani ratnam's part to be clueless wit Iruvar....he wants us to understand mgr-karunanidhi relation..bt still employs a very fictional story with many laughable twists..mohanlal cant speak tamil,he wsnt a patch on mgr..aishwarya ws irritating..cudnt understand prakash raj's dialogues..though it made him luk like karunanadhi..:oops: too many things i cudnt stand....n alaipayuthey ws very bad..inspite of madhavan's looks,he ws acting oversmart like many mani ratnam characters,except maybe nayakan,dalapathy...everything frm romance to item songs were artificial..hav u seen the english film "love story" which mani ratnam uses in alaipayuthey? that was much bettr than alaipayuthey.

i liked magalir mattum n anbe sivam bcoz these films hav a heart n soul..one has feminism and other altruism..they at least have a right path than being clueless n halfbaked..Mani ratnam doesnt know abt reality..thats why he always escapes by twisting them to fictional....

in an effort not to make it a kamal v Mani battle - just one example of portrayal of characters by them.........naseer in AS and shalini's father in AP are the same characters - the listless "ponna pethhavanga" :lol: ..........when kamal would have made a naive naseer, mani wud have made a strong selvaraj though instinctive........how is naseer naive??? heres one sample, when he sees kamal in hospital after accident - he says " naa kadavul kitta vednikkaran, nee sethhu po" - that was a very naive characterisation....the dialogue looked squeezed .........whereas, reaction to shalini-Madhavan marriage from her dad wud be a slap - thats it......

i agree kamal has done great characterisations in his films - but to say mani has never done anything good - will evoke reactions.....

[MADDY]

1. Moreover what i heard of the movie as childrens fantasy theme happening in 8th century Raaja would deliver it precisely which he has proved in 'My dear Kuttichaathan' , 'Jagatheeku veerudu Athiloka sundari' 'Anjali' 'Inimey Naangathaan' 'Paandavas' and many other movies where childrens fantasy cam in bits and pieces. ARR has nothing in his kitty to prove he has done such work already.
Iam not talking about 'child chorus' Iam talking about Fantasy themes taking you to dreamlands. Do we have any offerings from ARR in this genre? Lets discuss

2. Ok! coming off my head.....
Sri ragavendra
kamaraj
Siraichaalai
Heyram
bharathi
Devathai (Partially)
Maaveran
Nadodi Thendral
Nayagan (I believe it is!)
Saathanai (Partially as a fantasy theme!)

Forth coming 'Pazhasi Raaja' and 'uliyin Osai' also can be added to the list shortly Smile

Where do we stand now with these titles?
that you want to prove time and again to us Raaja Fans! can never happen in your lifetime. Not Worthy

3. Anyways gool down...gool down... dont kraiy ya...dake it easy...

4. for the others who are wanting ARR to work for Kamal. I feel that should not happen as Kamal's working style and ARR's working style doesnt match and they may end up in bitterness towards each other. (Not that i care too much if they end up like this Wink) Kamal is a perfectionist who need his script ready before going to the floors. Raaja was a perfect match for him as both work alike that they are ready with the script/screenplay/story or notations/music in their head aswel in papers before the shooting/recording happens. That is not case with ARR-MR/Shankar combos. they work-rework-rerework until they feel it is the final version. I have read that nayagan was a 5.5 hrs movie and thalapathy was 4hrs movie before going to the editing room.
AFAIK kamal has never done that,If the combo happens he would demand ARR to give all the songs before going for the shooting and not in a remote possibility ARR would be able to provide it before a time period of 6 months Razz

1. fantasy themes not done by ARR - RS, u must be kidding.........:lol2: - LOTR musical - the multi million dollar theatrical saga, the biggest in history of mankind is composed by "Kodambakkam" Allah Rakah Rahman :lol: ....i needn't stress the "puthum pudhu bhoomi" song which stunned the then TN, which was nothing short of music for fantasy theme......have u heard of Asoka/Yodha (Mohan Lal) movie?? it was ARR's second movie and thalaivar came Ghilli with that......

2. my intention was not to belittle IR or make his fans feel humble.......though i might have made it look that way there - (unconditional) sorry for that........i just wanted to throw egg on some posts, which made IR god and ARR a human..... :lol: (i'm not referring only to equa's posts.....others also were talking as if - ARR is a "theetu")

3. future is "very" bright for ARR fans(14 movies in pipeline) , inshallah and theres no reason to krai, when future is bright..... 8-)

4. :notworthy: - u hit the nail on the head........kamal and ARR belong to different planets in terms of work culture(to say the least).......one is the height of perfection-centralized, other is pioneer of perfection-decentralized.........possible outfall will be a split or low quality product or change of work style from either side.........

reg bolded lines in point no.4, FYI Roobaroo was composed in 45 mins, pal pal hai baari(swades) was composed in 2 nights - so it depends on the director to extract the desired result........ARR is completely a directror's man - like water - takes the shape of vessel you put it in........he can compose fast, if kamal isnpires him to :notworthy:

(again, i apologize for bringing IR in kamal-MY thread unnecessarily)

[rayan36]

reg bolded lines in point no.4, FYI Roobaroo was composed in 45 mins, pal pal hai baari(swades) was composed in 2 nights - so it depends on the director to extract the desired result........

Wow thats interesting :shock:

[dinesh2002]

another news that shouldnt be 4gotten,

Meherbaan - Tehzeeb was composed on the spot and was finished within 15 mins. Initially the song is 15 mins long, so they cut down up to the final version which was 5 mins +.

think this is the fastest ARR track. And ofcource, a mindblowing number at the same time...

[prasana84]

IR god and ARR a human..... :banghead:
Leave maddy that much they know. These ppl are :x
We know who rahman is...

[thineshan54321]

Rahman's first romantic genre song was pudhu vellai malai and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first female introduction genre song was chinna chinna and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first rock/mexican genre song was mukala and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first period was Lagaan and ...............

on it goes....

Conclusiom?
he doesnt have to do it before in order to come up with something good. With rahman, the less he knows about a particular genre, the more he will research, learn, producing an unbelievable album. altho i am dying to listen to a tamil period from Rahman, I hope he doesnt become associated with Kamal. He can stick with the Raja family. Hope he introduces bhavatharani as MD. anyone is better than Rahman. :wink:

[prasana84]

Rahman's first romantic genre song was pudhu vellai malai and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first female introduction genre song was chinna chinna and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first rock/mexican genre song was mukala and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first period was Lagaan and ...............

on it goes....

Conclusiom?
he doesnt have to do it before in order to come up with something good. With rahman, the less he knows about a particular genre, the more he will research, learn, producing an unbelievable album. altho i am dying to listen to a tamil period from Rahman, I hope he doesnt become associated with Kamal. He can stick with the Raja family. Hope he introduces bhavatharani as MD. anyone is better than Rahman. :wink:
:lol:

[rayan36]

another news that shouldnt be 4gotten,

Meherbaan - Tehzeeb was composed on the spot and was finished within 15 mins. Initially the song is 15 mins long, so they cut down up to the final version which was 5 mins +.

think this is the fastest ARR track. And ofcource, a mindblowing number at the same time...

I can't believe this :shock: & people say he takes his own time composing (maybe half of it were true)

[Devar Magan]

chinna pasangala chumma irunga.. Andavar kitta vilayaada vendaam.. some rumours-a nambi romba pesaatheenga..

months before the news broke out in the media, i told maddy that ARR is gonnabe the MD for kamal's next.. he laughed at me.. but ippo paarunga...

dont believe in rumours..

[A.ANAND]

ayya devar magan, ennga andavar kittayum vilayada vendam!singgamla!

[Dragun]

I can't believe this :shock: & people say he takes his own time composing (maybe half of it were true)

I think the general tune may not take a lot of time, but the orchestrations take a while.

Daler Mehndi recorded Rang De Basanti in something like 45 minutes.

[Devar Magan]

ayya devar magan, ennga andavar kittayum vilayada vendam!singgamla!inge yaaru vilayaadinaa???

[Mahen]

Rahman's first romantic genre song was pudhu vellai malai and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first female introduction genre song was chinna chinna and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first rock/mexican genre song was mukala and u know what the result was.

Rahman's first period was Lagaan and ...............

on it goes....

Conclusiom?
he doesnt have to do it before in order to come up with something good. With rahman, the less he knows about a particular genre, the more he will research, learn, producing an unbelievable album. altho i am dying to listen to a tamil period from Rahman, I hope he doesnt become associated with that stubborn, arrogant Kamal. He can stick with the Raja family. Hope he introduces bhavatharani as MD. anyone is better than Rahman. :wink:

:clap:

[prasana84]

chinna pasangala chumma irunga.. Andavar kitta vilayaada vendaam.. some rumours-a nambi romba pesaatheenga..

months before the news broke out in the media, i told maddy that ARR is gonnabe the MD for kamal's next.. he laughed at me.. but ippo paarunga...

dont believe in rumours..
Chinna pasangala nangala :lol:

[Devar Magan]

mahen and thineshan,

without knowing the truth you two are ranting here.. what nonsense.. maddy ivaingalukku unmaya sollungappa..

[Devar Magan]

thread starter,

rename the thread as
Kamal-ARR-Kamal marmayogi..

[thilak4life]

haha. DM, then It would be Kamal "writer"+Kamal "director" + Kamal "actor" +.... :lol:

[Devar Magan]

illai,

for robot, its shankar -rahman- rajini..

so for marmayogi,

it shud be kamal-arr- kamal..

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

[Ramakrishna]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually, here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:

[SoftSword]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually speaking here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:

exactly... as its in the arrs section...
if in other sections it could be in other ways...

[SoftSword]

1. Moreover what i heard of the movie as childrens fantasy theme happening in 8th century Raaja would deliver it precisely which he has proved in 'My dear Kuttichaathan' , 'Jagatheeku veerudu Athiloka sundari' 'Anjali' 'Inimey Naangathaan' 'Paandavas' and many other movies where childrens fantasy cam in bits and pieces. ARR has nothing in his kitty to prove he has done such work already.
Iam not talking about 'child chorus' Iam talking about Fantasy themes taking you to dreamlands. Do we have any offerings from ARR in this genre? Lets discuss

2. Ok! coming off my head.....
Sri ragavendra
kamaraj
Siraichaalai
Heyram
bharathi
Devathai (Partially)
Maaveran
Nadodi Thendral
Nayagan (I believe it is!)
Saathanai (Partially as a fantasy theme!)

Forth coming 'Pazhasi Raaja' and 'uliyin Osai' also can be added to the list shortly Smile

Where do we stand now with these titles?
that you want to prove time and again to us Raaja Fans! can never happen in your lifetime. Not Worthy

3. Anyways gool down...gool down... dont kraiy ya...dake it easy...

4. for the others who are wanting ARR to work for Kamal. I feel that should not happen as Kamal's working style and ARR's working style doesnt match and they may end up in bitterness towards each other. (Not that i care too much if they end up like this Wink) Kamal is a perfectionist who need his script ready before going to the floors. Raaja was a perfect match for him as both work alike that they are ready with the script/screenplay/story or notations/music in their head aswel in papers before the shooting/recording happens. That is not case with ARR-MR/Shankar combos. they work-rework-rerework until they feel it is the final version. I have read that nayagan was a 5.5 hrs movie and thalapathy was 4hrs movie before going to the editing room.
AFAIK kamal has never done that,If the combo happens he would demand ARR to give all the songs before going for the shooting and not in a remote possibility ARR would be able to provide it before a time period of 6 months Razz

1. fantasy themes not done by ARR - RS, u must be kidding.........:lol2: - LOTR musical - the multi million dollar theatrical saga, the biggest in history of mankind is composed by "Kodambakkam" Allah Rakah Rahman :lol: ....i needn't stress the "puthum pudhu bhoomi" song which stunned the then TN, which was nothing short of music for fantasy theme......have u heard of Asoka/Yodha (Mohan Lal) movie?? it was ARR's second movie and thalaivar came Ghilli with that......

2. my intention was not to belittle IR or make his fans feel humble.......though i might have made it look that way there - (unconditional) sorry for that........i just wanted to throw egg on some posts, which made IR god and ARR a human..... :lol: (i'm not referring only to equa's posts.....others also were talking as if - ARR is a "theetu")

3. future is "very" bright for ARR fans(14 movies in pipeline) , inshallah and theres no reason to krai, when future is bright..... 8-)

4. :notworthy: - u hit the nail on the head........kamal and ARR belong to different planets in terms of work culture(to say the least).......one is the height of perfection-centralized, other is pioneer of perfection-decentralized.........possible outfall will be a split or low quality product or change of work style from either side.........

reg bolded lines in point no.4, FYI Roobaroo was composed in 45 mins, pal pal hai baari(swades) was composed in 2 nights - so it depends on the director to extract the desired result........ARR is completely a directror's man - like water - takes the shape of vessel you put it in........he can compose fast, if kamal isnpires him to :notworthy:

(again, i apologize for bringing IR in kamal-MY thread unnecessarily)

ennaga list podring ipdi....
chinnap pulla thanama irukku...

IR got those subjects, and the story demanded it, so he rolled out such masterpieces...
you can tell if arr can do such a work or not only if he gets such a project...
other than that how can you compare...

then if we list out the many great albums of arr and ask if ir has given anything like that, then where will you get the comparision from... i mean the right comparision...
can you get a comparision for roja...
for thiruda thiruda...
or for boys...
for sivajii...
i gave 4 examples from diff period of time...
i don want to write out a list of movies and i don have time for that...

and please don think that am tellin all this for the sake of arguing...
am just tryin to tell you that you cant keep an album in hand, and ask for a similar thing from someone else...

[rajasaranam]

softsword,

MADDY edit panna badhilla padichittu enna nadanthathunnu theriyaama pesakoodathu :shhh: muthal List pottathu MADDY'thaan athukku badhil list thaan ennodathu.



chinnap pulla thanama irukku... - this shud be addressed to MADDY :P

moreover i didnt want to continue this arguement thats why Iam keeping quiet.

[Devar Magan]

softsword,

sivaji ellaam oru composition-aa??

any song in sivaji can be used in CM or ROBO or kuseylan..

can u imagine kanmani song from guna in any other movie??

thats a composition..

[Devar Magan]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually, here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:but this is ARR albums section right???
so ARR's ARR album??

[SoftSword]

softsword,

sivaji ellaam oru composition-aa??

any song in sivaji can be used in CM or ROBO or kuseylan..

can u imagine kanmani song from guna in any other movie??

thats a composition..

kanmani song ellaam oru songa...
nalla velai arr andha madhiri oru song podala... avlo mosama avar podavum maattaar...

[villan007]

kanmani song ellaam oru songa...
nalla velai arr andha madhiri oru song podala... avlo mosama avar podavum maattaar...

:shock: :shock:

you gotta be kidding :lol2:

[MADDY]

softsword,

MADDY edit panna badhilla padichittu enna nadanthathunnu theriyaama pesakoodathu :shhh: muthal List pottathu MADDY'thaan athukku badhil list thaan ennodathu.



chinnap pulla thanama irukku... - this shud be addressed to MADDY :P

moreover i didnt want to continue this arguement thats why Iam keeping quiet.

RS, Softswrd enna dhaanpa sonnaru.... :lol: ....neenga react pannadheenga........thanks for understanding my stand in kamal thread :D

SS, ARR has done fantasy themes and songs - refer my list and we can give a comprehensive list if reqd.........ARR has done a great deal of period films to the extent i'm now hating it..... :banghead:


softsword,

sivaji ellaam oru composition-aa??

any song in sivaji can be used in CM or ROBO or kuseylan..

can u imagine kanmani song from guna in any other movie??

thats a composition..

karthi , do u mean to say Oru koodai sunlight can be used in Guna too?? :rotfl:

see, if u think Guna is godly and IR's music was godly - then fine but dont impose it on us saying "adhudhaan bestu" and illai nnu sonna "rasana kettavanga" :lol2:

whole World cannot look at things the way u look at...ok?

[prasana84]

softsword,

sivaji ellaam oru composition-aa??

any song in sivaji can be used in CM or ROBO or kuseylan..

can u imagine kanmani song from guna in any other movie??

thats a composition..
Sahana song kita kanmani songa comparey panna mudila. im saying this from my heart. the bass guitar in kanmani song is awesome. but sahanala irukura feel kanmani pattula sathiyama kedaikathu. shivaji album is soo youthful vayasana alungalluku puriyathu.

[prasana84]

softsword,

sivaji ellaam oru composition-aa??

any song in sivaji can be used in CM or ROBO or kuseylan..

can u imagine kanmani song from guna in any other movie??

thats a composition..
shivajikuda compare panninga ok athukku munnadi irukura padangal esp roja, thiruda thiruda kuda unga ir patta compare panni enga imageja spoil panidathinga :x

[kb]

its sad that ARR has matured.. but avar paatula munna maathiri consistency illa.

wish he shows more interest in tamil films :D and vijay & mass padathukellam avar music podanumnu avasiyamilla :D

IR? guess his generation is over :?

[kb]

can u imagine kanmani song from guna in any other movie??

thats a composition..

en theva illama nalla paatellam inga ezhuthu atha discuss panra perla :oops: panra :roll:

[thineshan54321]

IR is a genius.
ARR is a genius.

[thineshan54321]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually, here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:but this is ARR albums section right???
so ARR's ARR album??

Devar Magan you are so hypocritical. You said it should be "Kamal's Marmayogi" since its obvious that ARR is associated in it as it is his forum. Fair enough. However in tamil film sections, http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=10452&start=450, you have the thread title as "Kamal Haasan's Masterpiece Marmayogi" (its not so obvious that ARR is involved in it, so why didnt u include his name in the thread title). Stop the hypocrisy.

Note: Devar Magan is author of that thread.

[MADDY]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually, here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:but this is ARR albums section right???
so ARR's ARR album??

Devar Magan you are so hypocritical. You said it should be "Kamal's Marmayogi" since its obvious that ARR is associated in it as it is his forum. Fair enough. However in tamil film sections, http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=10452&start=450, you have the thread title as "Kamal Haasan's Masterpiece Marmayogi" (its not so obvious that ARR is involved in it, so why didnt u include his name in the thread title). Stop the hypocrisy.

Note: Devar Magan is author of that thread.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

good catch thineshan - i think DM is "obviously" kidding when he suggests thread title changes in ARR section......come on, thread titles in ARR section are not "neyar viruppam" :lol:

[SoftSword]

kanmani song ellaam oru songa...
nalla velai arr andha madhiri oru song podala... avlo mosama avar podavum maattaar...

:shock: :shock:

you gotta be kidding :lol2:

thats a reply to DM's comments...
i know its very bad and bitter, but he demanded me to server him that...

[Devar Magan]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually, here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:but this is ARR albums section right???
so ARR's ARR album??

Devar Magan you are so hypocritical. You said it should be "Kamal's Marmayogi" since its obvious that ARR is associated in it as it is his forum. Fair enough. However in tamil film sections, http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=10452&start=450, you have the thread title as "Kamal Haasan's Masterpiece Marmayogi" (its not so obvious that ARR is involved in it, so why didnt u include his name in the thread title). Stop the hypocrisy.

Note: Devar Magan is author of that thread.ARR illaatti sivaji gaali..

but this is a kamal movie.. mind it..

why should i add ARR's name in that thread?? why the hell i ask..

thimuru pidicha ARR fans-kku paadam kathukkodukkanum..

[Devar Magan]

kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR.. its a well known fact that most ARR fans are useless peetru pasanga.. :lol2:

[SoftSword]

acho...

thaangalappa...
idhellaam kaekkuradhukku yaarumae illayaa...
chumma noi noi'nu...

adutthavangala nondradhae ivarukku velayaa pochu...

[Wibha]

kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR.. its a well known fact that most ARR fans are useless peetru pasanga.. :lol2:

ARR was threathened by some terrorists for doing dasavatharam.. so, he went to kamal for help.. kamal relieved ARR from the project.. ARR was thankful for that.. and now ARR is roped in for marmayogi...

ithu kooda theriyaathu ungalukku.. neenga ellaam ARR fans-a. :rotfl:

:rotfl: apram enna aachu? nalla kadha :lol2:

[thilak4life]

Not all ARR fans, I'm expecting a good combo here. But I think there's always been a popular opinion that Kamal doesn't prefer Rahman. That's why you see dejections and rejections, purely speculative of the drop of Rahman. That's why it's better to wait for official confirmation. Let's wait.

[MADDY]

kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR.. its a well known fact that most ARR fans are useless peetru pasanga.. :lol2:

ARR was threathened by some terrorists for doing dasavatharam.. so, he went to kamal for help.. kamal relieved ARR from the project.. ARR was thankful for that.. and now ARR is roped in for marmayogi...

ithu kooda theriyaathu ungalukku.. neenga ellaam ARR fans-a. :rotfl:

:rotfl: apram enna aachu? nalla kadha :lol2:

it is true to a extent.....ARR is troubled by lot of islamic organisations.....they want him to fund for Jihad and stuff :oops: .........it seems kamal did help ARR in getting relieved from 10A easily.......also, it was ARR who introduced vasundhara to kamal who went on to become his heroine in Hey Ram!

ARR fans - lets wait, official announcement aagatuum , piragu, uyar matta kuzhu kootti - mudivu eduppom..... :D

[SoftSword]

deleted

[Mahen]

kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR.. its a well known fact that most ARR fans are useless peetru pasanga.. :lol2:

ARR was threathened by some terrorists for doing dasavatharam.. so, he went to kamal for help.. kamal relieved ARR from the project.. ARR was thankful for that.. and now ARR is roped in for marmayogi...

ithu kooda theriyaathu ungalukku.. neenga ellaam ARR fans-a. :rotfl:

DM, ungaluku comedy nalla varudhu... :lol:
I personaly feel kamal has bad music sense(sorry kamal fans)...He's always ignorant when it comes to the music department...All his mega projets had a disappointing music score(except virumandi)..

[crajkumar_be]

it is true to a extent.....ARR is troubled by lot of islamic organisations.....they want him to fund for Jihad and stuff :oops: .........it seems kamal did help ARR in getting relieved from 10A easily.......also, it was ARR who introduced vasundhara to kamal who went on to become his heroine in Hey Ram!

ARR fans - lets wait, official announcement aagatuum , piragu, uyar matta kuzhu kootti - mudivu eduppom..... :D
I also heard it was ARR who linked Walt Disney and Aandavar. Don't know if its true or not but it sounds plausible. Maddy, any idea if this is true or not?

[Wibha]

it is true to a extent.....ARR is troubled by lot of islamic organisations.....they want him to fund for Jihad and stuff :oops: .........it seems kamal did help ARR in getting relieved from 10A easily.......also, it was ARR who introduced vasundhara to kamal who went on to become his heroine in Hey Ram!

ARR fans - lets wait, official announcement aagatuum , piragu, uyar matta kuzhu kootti - mudivu eduppom..... :D

come on MADDDY you gotta be kidding me

[thilak4life]

it is true to a extent.....ARR is troubled by lot of islamic organisations.....they want him to fund for Jihad and stuff :oops: .........it seems kamal did help ARR in getting relieved from 10A easily.......also, it was ARR who introduced vasundhara to kamal who went on to become his heroine in Hey Ram!

ARR fans - lets wait, official announcement aagatuum , piragu, uyar matta kuzhu kootti - mudivu eduppom..... :D
I also heard it was ARR who linked Walt Disney and Aandavar. Don't know if its true or not but it sounds plausible. Maddy, any idea if this is true or not?

I also heard Bharat bala, Kamal, and Rahman formed the main crew of "The 19th Step" from day one.

(I'm not sure about Mohanlal, Asin, Prroshant Narayannan,etc)

[MADDY]

it is true to a extent.....ARR is troubled by lot of islamic organisations.....they want him to fund for Jihad and stuff :oops: .........it seems kamal did help ARR in getting relieved from 10A easily.......also, it was ARR who introduced vasundhara to kamal who went on to become his heroine in Hey Ram!

ARR fans - lets wait, official announcement aagatuum , piragu, uyar matta kuzhu kootti - mudivu eduppom..... :D
I also heard it was ARR who linked Walt Disney and Aandavar. Don't know if its true or not but it sounds plausible. Maddy, any idea if this is true or not?

again , no idea from my side........ARR is one tough person to get any info about..........but there are good signs betn kamal and ARR - thats for sure...... :D

[A.ANAND]

panchayathu naari pochuda sami... :rotfl:

[Devar Magan]

well many so-called ARR fans here are in their own ignorant world.. athukku naan enna seyya mudiyum..

[A.ANAND]

well many so-called ARR fans here are in their own ignorant world.. athukku naan enna seyya mudiyum..athukku neenga onnum seiyama iruthalae pothum.pesama
unnga andavar madathukke pogalam thevar ayya! :D

[Devar Magan]

well many so-called ARR fans here are in their own ignorant world.. athukku naan enna seyya mudiyum..athukku neenga onnum seiyama iruthalae pothum.pesama
unnga andavar madathukke pogalam thevar ayya! :Denge enge enga aandavar irukaaro angellaam naanum iruppen.. :P

neenga vena intha Marmayogi thread-a delete pannidalaam...

[A.ANAND]

ungga andavar enna vaanathila irunthu 'thobagadiir'innu villunthara enna?avaru than 'nathikka' vaathi ache!andavar innu sonnale pidikathey :lol:

vittudunnga ellam samathama poividuvom :cool2:
'ready for marmayogi'kamal+a.r.rahman :2thumbsup: :clap:

[RR]

Guys,

Stick to the topic. For discussing other kamal movies, go to the threads in films forum.

[kb]

kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR..

ARR was threathened by some terrorists for doing dasavatharam.. so, he went to kamal for help.. kamal relieved ARR from the project.. ARR was thankful for that.. and now ARR is roped in for marmayogi...

ithu kooda theriyaathu ungalukku.. neenga ellaam ARR fans-a. :rotfl:

aprom en himesh BGM podala.. bring out the best from him

dasavatharam music panna terrorists ku enna prachana?
apidi prachana irrukum bothu Y ARR is doing bgm for dasa! terrorists bgm mattum poda allow pannitaangala :?


intha maati theva illatha kostins ellam enaku varuthu..
enaku enna panrathuney therla :roll:

[ajithfederer]

KB , AFAIK himmesh doesn't do bgm for any of his movies, even in Hindi. I dont think ARR is doing BGM for Dasa, i think its Devi sri prasad. Poi aapessla ozhunga velai sey ellam seri aagedum :lol:


kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR..

ARR was threathened by some terrorists for doing dasavatharam.. so, he went to kamal for help.. kamal relieved ARR from the project.. ARR was thankful for that.. and now ARR is roped in for marmayogi...

ithu kooda theriyaathu ungalukku.. neenga ellaam ARR fans-a. :rotfl:

aprom en himesh BGM podala.. bring out the best from him

dasavatharam music panna terrorists ku enna prachana?
apidi prachana irrukum bothu Y ARR is doing bgm for dasa! terrorists bgm mattum poda allow pannitaangala :?


intha maati theva illatha kostins ellam enaku varuthu..
enaku enna panrathuney therla :roll:

[thineshan54321]

ideally, kamal's marmayogi

actually, here it shud be ARR's Marmayogi :wink:but this is ARR albums section right???
so ARR's ARR album??

Devar Magan you are so hypocritical. You said it should be "Kamal's Marmayogi" since its obvious that ARR is associated in it as it is his forum. Fair enough. However in tamil film sections, http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=10452&start=450, you have the thread title as "Kamal Haasan's Masterpiece Marmayogi" (its not so obvious that ARR is involved in it, so why didnt u include his name in the thread title). Stop the hypocrisy.

Note: Devar Magan is author of that thread.ARR illaatti sivaji gaali..

but this is a kamal movie.. mind it..

why should i add ARR's name in that thread?? why the hell i ask..

thimuru pidicha ARR fans-kku paadam kathukkodukkanum..

so what if its a kamal movie, doesnt he need a MD? what does this have to do with u not writing ARRs name in the thread yet asking us to put kamal's name and remove ARR in our own thread. that makes no sense to me. :? and btw, the only person that can teach us lessons is ARR thru his music not an ignorant kamal fan.

[ajithfederer]

There is just too much speculation going on about this esteemed project and its high time Kamal sir speaks about the cast and technician crew involved for this movie to bring an end to rumours and speculations from both sides. Going by what kamal fans and maddy say here its almost sure that ARR is doing music but its always good to hear from the horse's mouth, be it either ARR or Kamal sir. 8-)

Devar Magan, Looks like you are going to meet Kamal sir this weekend, Confirmed aa news ae kettu sollupaa :) :lol:

[kb]

KB , AFAIK himmesh doesn't do bgm for any of his movies, even in Hindi. I dont think ARR is doing BGM for Dasa, i think its Devi sri prasad. Poi aapessla ozhunga velai sey ellam seri aagedum :lol:

:rotfl: :rotfl: ada paavigala.. appo Dasa buzza :oops:

kandasamy''a trailerla avaru BGM. kakakaka kandha kandha.. ka kaka kandha..KANDHASAAAMY!!! :lol:

[Nerd]

kamal can bring out the best from any MD. he has no need to go behind ARR..

ARR was threathened by some terrorists for doing dasavatharam.. so, he went to kamal for help.. kamal relieved ARR from the project.. ARR was thankful for that.. and now ARR is roped in for marmayogi...

ithu kooda theriyaathu ungalukku.. neenga ellaam ARR fans-a. :rotfl:

aprom en himesh BGM podala.. bring out the best from him

dasavatharam music panna terrorists ku enna prachana?
apidi prachana irrukum bothu Y ARR is doing bgm for dasa! terrorists bgm mattum poda allow pannitaangala :?


adhaanE :lol2: Though it is not true ( :roll: ) now, there was this speculation and if I am not wrong DM's gang only brought that to the hub.. appO terrrist ellAm enna pannAnga?? :rotfl: EKDMI..

[Mahen]

ARR is chatting live on rediff at 11 pm IST/0930 Eastern, Saturday, February 9...Let us all drill him with questions esp abt dasa and marmayogi..