SURVIVAL & Advancement of TAMIL.!!.?

[Sudhaama]

.
. SURVIVAL & Advancement of TAMIL Language.!

In course of Time... any Language gets INFLUENCED by other Languages..

..as well as gets into several problems for Survival... as well as..

..challenges towards Advancement.

Even the Great Classic Languages like Sanskrit, Latin, Hebrew Greek etc. too are not the exeptions.

Rather all Languages have faced such challenges and onslaughts of problems

And even such Great Languages like Sanskrit and Latin have fallen under the category of DEAD LANGUAGE...

mainly because of their lack of adaptability... coping with the demands of the changing time... by way of...

History, Age and Culture, Human Development and World Advancement.

One of such problem for Tamil... was the influence of English, Persian, Portugese and the like Traders Languages...

...which had to be accomodated due to the trend of circumstances. in India.

Previously Tamil had the problem of over-domnation by Sanskrit.

Whereas the present problem and Challenge to Tamil is the influence of English...

..plus the rapidly changing Life-style of Tamil users...

..alongside Globalisation.... and fast Advancement of Knowledge mainly by Science.

Under such fast changing time and trend..

..What is the Status of Tamil Language.?

Will it become extinct in the near future?"...Or Can surive.?

How to prevent deterioration and ensure Advancement of Tamil Language...

...learning from the past experiences of Sanskrit, Latin and Hebrew.?

. Can the Tamil Language survive at the rate of present trend.?

...If Not Advancement.!
.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:08d8c6dfa1]ÀðÊ-ÁýÈõ:-- ¾¨ÄôÒ

"¾ü¸¡Äò¾¢ø ¿ÁÐ ÀÆÌ-¾Á¢ú ±ùÅ¡Ú «¨ÁÅÐ ¿ÁìÌõ ¿ÁÐ ±¾¢÷¸¡Äî ºó¾¾¢Â¢ÉÕìÌõ ¿øÄÐ?"
[/tscii:08d8c6dfa1]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:ec54e45527]While it is QUITE A WELCOME STEP

... as well as a PROGRESSIVE APPROACH...

... backed by the HEALTHY OBJECTIVE...

... to develop our Great and Rich Language Tamil,

.....by encouraging to use Tamil words to the Maximum as for possible,

I am surprised to see...

.... the PRESENT DELETERIOUS approach...

.... of UNWELCOME TREND of FANATICISM.... or Tamil-chauvinism...!!!

Is it good for the future Generation of Tamilians?

Why not we call a Computer as COMPUTER ...?

... Why KANINI....? What is the ADVANTAGE ?

... and what we will lose by calling the Incubator as INCUBATOR only or in the Tamilised form nearest to it as illustrated below leaving it to the common-folks convenience?

Why this HEAD-BREAKING EXERCISE ....?????????????????.

.... to CREATE a new NAME for an INVENTION. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..

........ having already an ORIGINAL NAME !.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????

.... What is the necessity?

Just think awhile on our parallel experience...

... on such FUTILE ENDEAVOUR ! !

Even illiterate People call... even now... after some centuries....

.... only in the near Original forms of English or Arabic.. in practice.

... irrespective of an IMPOSITION of translated TAMIL names.

For Example.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Original .................Tamil-Translation..................... Practical Name in Vogue
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Bus ...........................PAERUNDHU.............. ...................... PUSSU ....

Bus-Stand................PAERUNDHU NILAIYAM................PUSTAENDU

Railway Station ....PUHAI-VANHDI NILAIYAM........ RAYIL TAESUNU

Park (Rly Stn)........ POONGA.......................................... PAARK TAESANU

Engineer....................PORHIYAALHAR.......... ....................INJINEEYARU

Supervisor............... MAELAALHAR...................................SOOPR AESARU

Jilla (District).......... MAAVATTAM................................... JILLA

Taluq.......................... VATTAM............................................ THAALUKA

Engine.........................IYANTHIRAM......... .............................INJINU

Hospital.......................MARUTHUVA-MANAI......................AASPATHIRI

Radio........................... VAANOLI........................................... .RADIO

Telephone................. THOLAI PAESI...................................TELIPHONU.
-------------------------------------------------------------------.

If we say "KANINI" for Computer,

... how many people understand it...(.even amongst Tamilians)?...

... better than calling it as COMPUTER ...itself...?

... So to say...in its Original form of Language... whatever be.!!

Similarly people of other States translate in their Language,thus creating SEVERAL NAMES, how can it be understood if all such different people discuss at one meet... even if they discuss through any Indian Non-English media.

We have adequately well-experienced in such CONGLOMERATIONS!!!

....when a Tamilian says.... MINSAARAM...

... Telugus...... VIDHYUTH-SAKTHI....

....Hindiwalahs........ BIJLI....

.... For one and the same well-known word : ELECTRICITY....!!.

English people have NOT translated the Tamil Word KATTU-MARAM..

.... But call it as CATAMARON....

Similarly for the Tamil word MILHAHU- THANNEER (Pepper-Water),

.... they say MILKATHANEE ..
.
.... and such Modified terminologies has been added to their Encyclopaedia and Dictionary too !!

So..Why should we not call the COMPUTER ...INCUBATOR... ROCKET... and the like in itheir Original Names or the nearest leaving it to the RESPECTIVE COMMONFOLKS CONVENIENCE in all the Languages?

Don't we call X'RAY, TELEVISION, RADIO and the like?

Why should we not be realistic on this matter, as advised by Rajaji?

__________________________________________________ _________

Reply from Mr. RR :

¬í¸¢Ä Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û ÀÄ °¼¸í¸û ãÄÁ¡¸ ¿õ¨Á Å󾨼¸¢ýÈÉ. «Åü¨È ¯À§Â¡¸¢ôÀÐõ Á¢¸ ±Ç¢¾¡¸ ¯ûÇÐ. «¾ü¸¡¸ «¨ÉÅÕõ ¬í¸¢Ä Å¡÷ò¨¾¸¨Ç§Â ¯À§Â¡¸¢ì¸ ¬ÃõÀ¢òРŢð¼¡ø, ¾Á¢úô ÒÆì¸õ ¦ÁøÄî º¡Ìõ «À¡Âõ ¯ûǾøÄÅ¡?

¿¡§É þôÀÊ ±Ø¾ §¿ÃÄ¡õ...

þí¸¢Ä¢‰ Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û ¦ÁÉ¢ Á£Ê¡ ãÄÁ¡¸ ¿õ¨Á Å󾨼¸¢ýÈÉ. «Åü¨È äŠ ÀñÏÅÐõ Á¢¸ ®…¢Â¡¸ ¯ûÇÐ. «¾ü¸¡¸ «¨ÉÅÕõ þí¸¢Ä¢‰ Å¡÷ò¨¾¸¨Ç§Â äŠ Àñ½ ¬ÃõÀ¢òРŢð¼¡ø, ¾Á¢ú 䧅ˆ ¦ÁøÄ ¨¼ ¬Ìõ §¼ïº÷ ¯ûǾøÄÅ¡?

__________________________________________________ _________

«ýÀ¡÷ó¾ ¾¢Õ RR,

¿¡ý ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢Îõ ¸ÕòÐ §ÅÚ.... ¿£í¸û ÜÚõ ¦À¡Õû «ýÚ. ¾¨Â Ü÷óÐ ¿¡ý ÜȢ¨¾ Á£ñÎõ ´Õ Ó¨È À¡Õí¸û. ¯í¸Ù째 ÒâÔõ.

ÜÊÂŨà À¢È ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ü¸û ¸ÄÅ¡Ð ¾Á¢úî ¦º¡ü¸¨Çô ÀÂýÀÎò¾¢ ±Ø¾×õ §Àº×õ §ÅñÎõ ±ýÈ ¸Õò¨¾ ¿¡ý þíÌ ÀÄ þ¼í¸Ç¢ø ÀÄ Å¢¾í¸Ç¢Öõ þ¨¼ÂÈ¡Ð ÅÄ¢ÔÚò¾¢ ÅóÐûǨ¾
¿£í¸û «È¢Å£÷¸û.

þì¸ÕòÐìÌò Ш½Â¡¸ ±ó¾ «Ç×ìÌ ¿õ "Åñ¼Á¢ú" ¨¸¦¸¡Î츢ÈÐ ±ýÀ¾üÌõ ¬¾¡Ãí¸§Ç¡Î Å¡¾¡Êì ¦¸¡ñÊÕìÌõ ±ÉìÌ.....!!.... þôÀÊ ´Õ "þÊ" §¾¨Å¡?

Á£ñÎõ ÜÚ¸¢§Èý.... þùÅ¢„Âò¾¢ø ¿õ þÕÅ÷ §¿¡ì¸Óõ ´ý§È. ... Á¡ÚÀ¡Î ±í§¸?

Railway Station, Bus-Stand, Collector, Tahsildar, Engineer, Supervisor, Computer, Incubator, X-Ray, §À¡ýÈ ÀÆÌ-¦ÀÂ÷¸û, ¾Äí¸û, À¾Å¢¸û, Ò¾¢Â-¸ñÎÀ¢ÊôÒì¸û §À¡ýÈ....

.... ¦ÀÂ÷¡ü¸ÙìÌ (Nowns) ãÄ ¦Á¡Æ¢ô¦ÀÂ÷¸¨Ç ´Ð츢....

... ¿¡õ ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷ôÒ Á¡üÈõ ¦ºöÅÐ §¾¨Å¡?

... «ôÀÊöÅÐ ¿ÁìÌ ¿øľ¡?... ±ôÀÊ?

... þи¡Úõ ¿¡õ ¸ñ¼ «ÛÀÅò¾¢Ä¢ÕóÐ «È¢óÐ ¦¸¡ñ¼ À¡¼õ ±ýÉ?...

.... ±ýÀɧŠ±ý §¸ûÅ¢¸û.

þÅüÈ¢üÌ Å¢¨¼¸§Ç ¿¡ý þíÌ ¦¾Ç¢×ÀÎò¾¢Â¨Å.

§ÁÖõ Å¢Çì̸¢§Èý. "º¢ýÉì-¸¡ïº¢ÒÃõ" ±ýÈ ¾Äô¦À¨à ¿õÁÅ÷¸û...

... ¬í¸¢Äò¾¢ø... LITTLE- KANCHEEPURAM ±ýÚ ±Ø¾¢ô§À͸¢È¡÷¸û.

.... ¬É¡ø §ÅÚ ±ó¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ÉÕõ... CHOTA-THALAB, BADA-BAZAAR, KOTHA-PALLI, HALE-KANNADA ... ±ýÈ Ó¨È¢§Ä ãÄ ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡øÅʨŧ ¦Á¡Æ¢-Á¡üÈõ (Transliteration) ¦ºö¸¢È¡÷¸û... ¿õ¨Áô§À¡ø ¦Á¡Æ¢-¦ÀÂ÷ôÒ (Translation) ¦ºöž¢ø¨Ä.

¬¸ ¿¡ý ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢ÎÅÐ ¾Á¢ú¡ýÉ¡Öõ §ÅüÚ¦Á¡Æ¢î ¦º¡øÄ¡É¡Öõ «¾É¾ý ãÄ ÅÊÅ¢§Ä§Â... ¦ÀÂ÷¸û Å¢„Âò¾¢ø ÁðÎõ ¿¡õ ²ý ¸¨¼ôÀ¢Êì¸ìܼ¡Ð.... ???

.... ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡¸... ¸õôäð¼÷, þí̧Àð¼÷, ±ìŠ§Ã, ¦¼Ä¢Å¢„ý §À¡ýÈ....

.... ¦ÀÂ÷¡ü¸û Å¢„Âò¾¢ø Á¡ò¾¢Ãõ... ±ýÀ§¾ ±ý §¸ûÅ¢...???

§ÁüÌÈ¢ôÀ¢ð¼ þì¸Õò¨¾ìÜÈ¢ þùÅ¢„Âò¾¢ø ¾Á¢ú-¦Á¡Æ¢-¦ÅÈ¢ ¿ÁÐ ±¾¢÷¸¡Äî ºó¾¾¢Â¢ÉÕìÌ ¿ýÈýÚ ±ýÀ¨¾ô ÀÄ ¬ñθÙìÌ Óýɧà ¾¢Õ სƒ¢ «Å÷¸û ÅüÒÚò¾¢É¡÷.

«ó¾ «Ã¢Â ¿ü¸Õò¨¾ «ÛÀÅò¾¢ø ¬úóÐ ¬Ã¡öóÐ À¡÷ò¾¾É¡ø ÁÉÁ¡Ã ´ôÒì ¦¸¡û¸¢§Èý.

¾Á¢Æ÷¸§Ç!... º¢ó¾¢Ôí¸û!!...¯Èí¸¢ì ¸¢¼ìÌõ ¾Á¢ú¡ü¸¨Ç ¦ÅǢ즸¡½÷óÐ...

À¢È ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¸ÄÅ¡ ¿üÈÁ¢ú ÅÇõ ¦ÀÕìÌí¸û...«¾É¡ø...Óý§ÉüȧÁ...!!!

¬É¡ø ¦ÅÇ¢¦Á¡Æ¢ ãÄô¦ÀÂ÷¡ü¸¨Ç Å¢ÎòÐ Ò¾¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷ôÒ¡ø ¯ÕÅ¡ìÌž¡ø

¿Á째¡ ¿õ ±¾¢÷¸¡Äî ºó¾¾¢Â¢ÉÕ째¡ ... ¿ý¨Á þø¨Ä.... À¢ý§ÉüȧÁ...!

.... "ÅñÊ" ±Ûõ ¦º¡øÖõ "¸¡÷" ±ýÀÐõ ´ýÈ¡¸ì ¸Õ¾ôÀÎÅÐ þø¨Ä....

.... ¦À¡Õû ´ýÈ¡É¡Öõ...!.... ±Ç¢Â À¡Áà Áì¸ÙìÌõ ܼ...!!

"¸½¢É¢Â¡ø"..... Å£ñ ÌÆôÀÓõ ¦¾¡ø¨ÄÔõ ¾Å¢Ã...

.... ¡¦¾¡Õ ¿ý¨ÁÔõ þø¨Ä...... ¬É¡ø....

"¸õôäð¼Ã¡ø" ÀÄ ¿ý¨Á¸Ùõ Óý§ÉüÈí¸Ùõ ¯ñÎ.......!!!
__________________________________________________ _________

¾¢Õ. R.S., Ò⸢ÈÐ. ¬É¡ø, þÐ ±íÌ §À¡ö ¿¢üÌõ? ¿õ Áì¸û þ¨¾§Â º¡ì¸¡¸ ¨ÅòÐ즸¡ñÎ ¦ÁøÄ ¦ÁøÄ ±øÄ¡ ¦º¡ü¸Ç¢Öõ ¬í¸¢Ä ãÄò¨¾ ¸ÄóРŢ¼Ä¡õ. «¨¾§Â ºüÚ Á¢¨¸ôÀÎò¾¢ ¦º¡ý§Éý.

þРŢš¾òÐìÌȢ ´Õ ¸ÕòÐ. ±ý ¿¢¨Ä: ÓØÅÐÁ¡¸ ¾Á¢ú Àì¸õ þÕôÀ§¾. «¾¡ÅÐ ¦º¡ü¸¨Ç ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¦ÀÂ÷ôÒ ¦ºöÅÐ.
__________________________________________________ ______[/tscii:ec54e45527]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:09109d9a11]Mr. RR,

þи¡Úõ ¿¡ý ¦¸¡ñÎûÇ ¸ÕòÐ ¾ÅÈ¡É¡ø Á¡üȢ즸¡ûÇò ¾Â¡Ã¡ö þÕ츢§Èý.

¯í¸û ¸ÕòÐìÌ ¬¾¡Ãõ ±ýÉ?.... þÂøÒìÌ ´ò¾Å¡È¡É Å¢¨¼¨Â ±¾¢÷À¡÷츢§Èý.

±ÉÐ ¸Õò¨¾ ÁÚì¸ò ¾ì¸ Å¢¨¼-Å¢Çì¸õ ¾ÕÅ£÷¸Ç¡?
[/tscii:09109d9a11]

[priti]

can sombody tell me why I amnot able to read the font that appears here? do i need ot downlaod something?

[Surya]

Priti,
You just need to download the Tamil Font, Murasu Anjal.

Go here to do it.

http://www.kalkiweekly.com/downloads/downloadfonts.asp

And click on, "Click here to download Murasu Anjal 2000."

Good Luck. :)

[Surya]

I think that its a bit silly to make translations for inventions like Computer, etc. But I also think that it's good for the launguage. The Launguage grows. One good thing about SUN TV NEWS, is that it uses these words, that are created, and spreads them into the public. That helps the launguage, even though not much people use it. :D


[tscii:95051f1b98] Á£ñÎõ ºó¾¢§À¡õ 8) [/tscii:95051f1b98]

[RR]

[tscii:fef91587ce]Mr. RR,

þи¡Úõ ¿¡ý ¦¸¡ñÎûÇ ¸ÕòÐ ¾ÅÈ¡É¡ø Á¡üȢ즸¡ûÇò ¾Â¡Ã¡ö þÕ츢§Èý.

¯í¸û ¸ÕòÐìÌ ¬¾¡Ãõ ±ýÉ?.... þÂøÒìÌ ´ò¾Å¡È¡É Å¢¨¼¨Â ±¾¢÷À¡÷츢§Èý.

±ÉÐ ¸Õò¨¾ ÁÚì¸ò ¾ì¸ Å¢¨¼-Å¢Çì¸õ ¾ÕÅ£÷¸Ç¡?
[/tscii:fef91587ce]

[tscii:fef91587ce]
¬¾¡Ãí¸û ÍðÊ Å¢Çì¸ ±ÉìÌ «È¢× §À¡¾¡Ð. ´Õ À¡ÁÃÉ¡¸ò¾¡ý ±ý ¸Õò¨¾ ÜÈ¢§Éý. ÁýÈ ¨ÁÂò¾¢ý þÄ츢 ¬÷ÅÄ÷¸û Ţš¾ò¾¢ø ¸ÄóЦ¸¡ñÎ þò¾¨ÄôÀ¢ø ¬ì¸â÷ÅÁ¡¸ «ÄÍÅ¡÷¸û ±ýÚ ¿õÒ¸¢§Èý. «ùÅô§À¡Ð ¿¡Ûõ ±ý 'þÃñ¼É¡'-ì¸¨Ç ±È¢¸¢§Èý. (throw my two cents.)

(¾Á¢úô À¢¨Æ þÕôÀ¢ý ¦À¡Úò¾ÕÇ×õ, ¿ýÈ¢.)
[/tscii:fef91587ce]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:c50b6a0086]Mr."Surya" says...

(1) // I think that its a bit silly to make translations for inventions like Computer, etc. But I also think that it's good for the language. The Language grows.//

Does the Language GROW by Repetitive ADDITIONS by CREATING new Words by JUST TRANSLATIONS from the Original Names already existing?

What is wrong in calling CHINNA-KANCHEEPPURAM in all the Languages...

... instead of LITTLE-KANCHEEPURAM in English only?... Is it Not Redundant?

And why one more new Creation of a word as "NEER-VEEZHCHI (¿£÷-Å£ú)" in Tamil...

... a VERBATIM -TRANSLATION for WATER-FALLS (Water=¿£÷; + Falls = Å£ú)

.... while there is already a word as ARUVI («ÕÅ¢)... for the same purpose?

By such a trend... are we encouraging the GROWTH OF TAMIL...?

... or just adding an unpurposeful BURDEN on our Society, especially on the TINY-BRAINS.

(2) // One good thing about SUN TV NEWS, is that it uses these words, that are created, and spreads them into the public. That helps the language, even though not much people use it.//

Well... my previous detailed Reply on this point is self-explanatory.

Further I clarify....

Any amount of the Government and the Tamil-Scholars to create new words

as.... "ORU-PARI-IRU-THUVIL-URUTTUM-VANDI... (´Õ-Àâ-þÕ-ÐÅ¢ø-¯ÕðÎõ-ÅñÊ)"...

.... and as... MIDHI-VANDI (Á¢¾¢-ÅñÊ)...

.... for the Common-man's Vehicle... so called the "BI-CYCLE"....

... Was / Is there any EFFECT on the people?...

Neither in the Colloquival usage, nor in the modern Story-writings we find either of these two New creations.....

... but have been .... REJECTED BY THE SOCIETY....!!!

Because people like to call it..... ONLY IN ....

... The Common / Popular... ORIGINAL NAME......

... as "CYCLE" (¨ºì¸¢û)... in Tamil too...!........WHY?....

... Because it is PRACTICAL..... so to say.... the REALITY !!! [/tscii:c50b6a0086]

[Surya]

[tscii:dcb246af24]Yeah, once you put it that way, I guess that makes sence. We already have a word in tamil for water fall, why call it ¿£÷Å£ú? There's no point. :?

:lol: Actually that makes a lot of sense. People don't use those words, because they first learned that a bicycle is called a Cycle, and inventions of new words by the govt, isn't going to change that. I can see what you're saying, there is no point in making up those words, because it doesn't reach the common folks anyway. They still use cycle, because that's how they learned it at first, and also, its much easier to say cycle than, ´Õ-Àâ-þÕ-ÐÅ¢ø-¯ÕðÎõ-ÅñÊ :wink:
I agree. [/tscii:dcb246af24]


[tscii:dcb246af24] Another thing similar to this is how they write the names in Tamil. I mean, as you would know, because you name is ‚ɢšºý, I've seen SUN TV, and some magazines, write it as... º£É¢Å¡ºý.
That never made sense to me either. [/tscii:dcb246af24]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:b444ab38ff]//.... how they write the names in Tamil. I mean, as you would know, because you name is ...... ‚ɢšºý, I've seen SUN TV, and some magazines, write it as... º£É¢Å¡ºý. That never made sense to me either.//

Yes. ..the Valid point. Especially in case of Proper Nowns.... where the Phonetics of the Original Names should NOT be changed.

And if changed .... it gives different meanings too in some cases.

For example "‚ -¿¢Å¡ºý" is the Name of God Srinivasa at Thirumalai Hills... means...

...One who has given Living-place to "LAKSHMI" (Goddess of Wealth and Vishnu's Consort)

... It has several other auspicious and fertile Meanings too.... but...

... if changed as º£É¢ -Å¡ºý ... it means different as...

... One who lives in Sugar... so to say... "ANT."...

... I am "Srinivasan".... "NOT an... "ANT"[/tscii:b444ab38ff]

[Surya]

Sorry, Coming here after a long time.

Exactly. there's no point to it. It distorts the meaning of the name.

///One who lives in Sugar... so to say... "ANT////

:lol2:

[Sudhaama]

RR,

Please arrange to....

(1) Change the Thread Title... as ....
__________________________________________________ ___________

PATTIMANRHAM: 1 - Translation or Transliteration of POPULAR NAMES?
__________________________________________________ ___________

(2) Introduce POLL-OPTIONS.... 3

1. Should .be RETAINED as....COMPUTER ... by.. TRANSLITERATION.
(in Tamil Letters during Tamil usages ALSO)
.
2. Should be RENAMED... as... KANINI ..by... TRANSLATION ...to... Tamil

3. BOTH ... For Students. and Professionals.

Sudhaama

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:88617d97a9]
"kannvino"

// My Dear Tamil Folks, ..... Could anyone tell me meaning for"LIFT" (Which will carry people in multistorey building ) in tamil. Thanks in advance..... Best Regards,..... R.Kannan //

[Lifting Tamil by .... "LIFT".... ???.... !!!

Why should it be Tamilised?.... Why NOT call it .... as LIFT (Ä¢·ôð) .... in Tamil also?

For this English word .... there are several created Tamil-words.... propped up about 60 years back..... e.g....

.... YEZHUMBI (±ØõÀ¢) .....

... THOOKKI-PETTI (à츢ô-¦ÀðÊ) ....

... MIN-THOOKKI-ARHAI ( Á¢ý-à츢-«¨È) .... and so on...

How many people know that various options of Tamilised words... ALREADY EXIST...

... since the past Six-decades?... Why Not in Vogue?.... Are these Not Funny?

Frankly speaking... I am unable to understand ... such ..... "TAMIL- FANATICISM"....

Dear Friends, please don't get angry... nor fight with me... but try to understand the Practicability... Reality.... based on our adequate past Experience on the matter.


My experience....

One mother was beating his Son... a School-boy... who was just crying without reply.

... I asked the Mother... "Why are you beating your small boy.... so cruelly?"

.... "See... this useless Tiny tot... is Not Obeying my Advice?.... "

... Why so my dear Boy?

... Uncle... I asked my Mummy... why the Rice is called as "Arisi" in Tamil... I don't like it. So I will call it as KIRISI only. On hearing this my mummy got angry and without answering my Question she started beating me.

" Oh!... so simple... Well... You are at Freedom to call it as "Kirisi" only.... and when your Mother asks you to get Arisi from the Market... You can ask the Shop-keeper to give you... "Kirisi"...

"... But do you know... what will you get?... Neither Kirisi nor Arisi nor Rice... The Shop-keeper will get angry with you that you are fooling him... by uttering some Non-sense word...

... and the People around... will call you a Fool and Laugh at you... since the article you seek is ...

... already... POPULARLY KNOWN as.... "Arisi".... and why should you create a New word....

... as... "Kirisi" ... of.... YOUR OWN?

The same argument is applicable here... especially in the case of .... NEW-INVENTIONS.

Why not call an Incubator... as INCUBATOR and Television as TELEVISION... Radio as RADIO only...

... as also the Computer as COMPUTER only.... Why a New-Tamilian-CREATURE ... KANINI?

... And ... similarly.... what is wrong... in calling a ... Lift... as... LIFT... only?

... If you call by any Tamilised word as the Substitute... How many People can understand what you MEAN....?

... Not only NON-Tamilians... but also.... the TAMILIANS themselves!

... As we see the Funny Fate of .... COMPUTER.... !!!

... sitting in some of the .... KANINI-MINDED .... Tamilians !!

... Let us be PRACTICAL.... and Perceptible to REALITIES....

All My Dear Friends....

On this Subject I am aready participating in the Patti-Manrham-1... You ALL are Welcome to put forth your... "Pro"... or.... "Counter'- Points ... as you feel proper.

Am I WRONG to say so?
[/tscii:88617d97a9]

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear friends,

You are all worrying like non-tamil people worrying about.

Let us create own tamil words for new inventions. If it is possible in tamil why do you worry about that. It will all add the vocabulary of tamil language in addition to english or foreign words.

Let the people use any of these words according to their wish. A language eloquency will stand on its vocabulary. Let that vocabulary be flourished not only by derived/debted words but also through new words.

Those languages that are not able to produce new words will have no other way but use debted words.

Tamil has so many root words. We can create lot of simple words instead of lengthy hard words. For example we can use 'Thanmi' for Fridge/refrigerator.

'Adai kappan' can be used for incubator.

-Note that tamil gave words/script to lot of languages who did not have words/script in the world is the history.-

I can give lot of simple equivalent tamil words to Mr.Sudhaama's lenthy words.

This is one way of making tamil grown up. Not putting down.

Everytamil will benefit out of it.

You all are English educated. Imagine if not english educated: You would have formulated new words in tamil. If you don't do people they themselves will formulate their own words. This is natural.

Hence new tamil words will add growth to the language.Never suppress it.

For tamil this discussion is not neccessary.

f.s.gandhi

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. Gandhi,

I am surprised to note that ... you have MISTAKEN my stand...

My Question pertains to ONLY ... NEW INVENTIONS and DISCOVERIES...

Should we CREATE another Word .. EXCLUSIVELY ... for Tamilians sake?

... as.... "Kanini".... in ADDITION... tof its INTERNATIONALLY POPULAR- COMMON- Name for.. "COMPUTER".... a "New-Invention"?

In brief... My Stand is...In One Voice... with our Bharathi.. + YOU.. to.. .

(1) POPULARISE.. the EXISTING Tamil-words...so far under RESTRICTED USE only in our current Wriiten Tamil...

... Substituting...in place of Tamil "Thisai- ch- Chorhkalh" ...

...Example :-- . "Badhil" = "MARHU-MOZHI"...

(2) SEARCH ...for NEW TAMIL-WORDS.. so to say.. the existing. SENDHAMIZH- Words in our Literature... including the Ancient Changa-th- Thamizh ... although hitherto UNKNOWN since out of use as HIDDEN. ...

Example:-- "Mischief" = Vishamam / Kurhumbu / CHUNDAAYAM

(3)CREATE .... newly TRANSLATED Tamil-words in place of Foreign- Language Words... unlike our present UNNECESSARILY use profusely...in the current Tamil... not only Spoiken... but also in Written Tamil..

Example :-- "Member" = Membar / Angkaththinar / URHUPPINAR.

......................... "Secretary" = Sekkarattari / Kaariyadharisi / SEYALAALHAR

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bengali" is one of the Languages ... I know... at least Fairly. So while I was in Bengal I have noticed their usage. of their Mother-Tongue... alongside English.

"Arab" .. is one of the Languages... I keenly observed.. while I was in Saudi- Arabia.

"French".. is one of the Languages .. I am taking interest to learn... (adding to my present knowledge on Linguistics)...

... after observing its usage all over Europe as a common-language... as personally observed during my Europe.-tour

"Chinese" is One of the Languages.. I am observing... through my several Chinese Friends here... at America.

"English" is one of the Languages I am profusely using in this Foreign- Land... MORE than my Mother-Tongue.

And in Conclusion... How much they LOVE their Mother-Tongue....

... and take troubles to use ONLY the Words of their Mother-Tobngue...

... in the course of their CONVERSATION too...!!!

in the lines I mentioned above..... I have Observed ... and WONDERED!!!

I believe ... their Languages too are No doubt... "GREAT"... in different aspects...

.. and also ...I feel that... Those People also are GREAT ... because of ..

... their Principle as well as the Degree and Standard of WISE And WHOLE-HEARTED usage...

... without any LINGUISTIC-FANATICISM (even towards their Mother-Tongue)...to their BEST ADVANTAGE ..

... selectively amongst the Mother-Tongue Vs. Climatic-Languages

... and thus spreading the Spirit of the BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER.

.... as YAAVARUM- KAELHIR... wherever they are..

Our "Thamizh" TOO ... is NO DOUBT ....Great...but... but ..but ... but

... Are we the... "TAMILIANS" .... Greater or at least Equally GREAT?

... Mr. Gandhi .. You are more PRIVELEGED .. . to answer my Question

.. since you are experiencing similar to mine ...

In brief... my CHARGE... on our current Thamizhar-Brethren ... in GENERAL .. is...

We are ... TAMIL-FANATICS... in One Aspect... and THAMIZH- DEGRADERS in another Aspect ... in my Opinion.

Indha-th- Tamizh- Manrhaththai... ARHIVAARNDHA VALHAMAAKKI -VARUM ..

... Peru Madhippirhkurhiya... Thiru GANDHI Anbarae.... ippoadhu koorum Aiyaa

Umadhu Vaakku-ch-cheettu.. "Kanini"-ikkaa ?.. KAMPIYOOTTAR-ukkaa?

[Ilavenil]

I think translation is better than transliteration for new inventions and discoveries. I am talking purely about new words and not the ones already in use like "cycle".

Why not introduce new tamil words to people even before they get used to transliteration? I really love it, when I say "min anjal" instead of email. Playing with newly coined tamil words is fun too. This way we get to expand the vocabulary of tamil and let tamil live longer. But the translation should be simple, meaningful and easy to use.

I think when someone invents something, he has to name it and it definitely cannot be a some word that already exists. If we have to learn the new word anyway, why not it be in tamil itself??? :wink:

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear Mr. sudhaama,

Let us analyse the language issue in global perspective.

Language is not only used in communication but also importantly used in education lower/higher pertaining to particular subject which will lead people to new inventions/ discoveries in their subject.

You mentioned about the people love for their mother tongue.

Psychologically this tendency of people is due to the 'identity crisis' and this starts from name,village,district,state,nationality and combines with religion and language.

Hence mother tongue-love for mother tongue- is imaginatively perceived thing. We have to look into the practical outcome this perception. Otherwise mere love for language will turn as fanatism and deliver no fruitful to the society of world as a whole.

If you observe world leading communities you can come to know that they study their art / science in one language preferably their mother tongue. No language load is for them.

They concentrate on subjects and the language eloquency automatically get into their minds. This flow makes them creative than other developing nations.

Transliterated words will affect the flow of language if not as words but in sentences/phrases. Hence flow of thinking is affected.Creativeness becomes zero.

Before 2000 years we used tamil uniterupted and so the thinking was far better to produce new inventions in medicine(siddha) / engineering (River bridges, Stone temples).

Before 1000 years words of different sound mixed the flow of thinking was abruptly stopped. No new significant breakthrough was achieved in inventions. It will fit to all indian languages.

In present political scenario studying higher education through one language in tamil nadu / anywhere in india is not possible.

In such situation we can use both derived and translated words sentences otherwise translated words is the best way.

Translation is required always because at some point of time tamil language may be used for higher studies pertinent to the belief that job opporutunities created indegeniously.

Then tamils may become inventors and all other world will follow of what we do it now.

English is mixture of saxian and latin languages. But the sound it produces wont be affected by derived words as derived words are
changed to its sound. Moreover English cannot coin new words as it does not have much root words. For new inventions they try to put available nouns/ persons who invented. That is the case with other languages.

Tamil has many roots that we can coin new relevant easy words added to tamils dictionary.

In society socially and educationally forward masses are impressing the economically forward masses first and economically backward masses next.

This educationally forward masses follow the language they studied and hence this confusion prevails.

The language in education like in Japan and in China should have one languages formula.

Otherwise two language/you add one more-national three language formula will make smart people and not creative people.

[senthilkumaras]

dear fsg,

more important than creating new translations for foreign words,

what we need is to SEARCH SANGA noolgal(I prefer to call it KOODAL noolgal)-

WHICH IS A GOLDEN REALM OF ORIGINAL EARLIEST AND

EASY TO USE, SHORT-SYLLABLED ROOT WORDS- for

LOST WORDS which give equivalent meanings for the present

foreign words in use. eg;

raasi (in astrology)=iyal

constellation=gnyaa koottam, azhal kuttam,...

SURYAN=GNAAYIRRU(surprisingly still in use AS a weekday) where

GNYAA=STAR, IRRU=LAST, meaning "NEARBY STAR"-(Sun is our

nearest star, isn't HE?)

kaalam=poazhthu,gnyaandru,..

nakshathiram=vinnmeen,naannmeen,...

fortress-aeyil

how nice with all the present advances in science and
technology

we have now, if we have another u.ve.saminatha iyer to find the

still lost koodal literature of the earlier academies prior to

900 B.C.E. !-from under the ground-(also how nice if ASI

cooperates without envy ) and from the DEEP UNDER THE INDIAN

OCEAN IN THE ESTIMATED LOCATIONS OF OLD SUBMERGED CITIES

KAVADAM AND THENMADURAI! (LIKE they have already done at

ALEXANDRIA,DWARAKA,ETC.,\)

[senthilkumaras]

MR.SUDHAMAN,
STOP CALLING US TAMIL FANATICS OR TAMIL CHAUVINISTS
WHEN THE INDIAN GOVT AND NORTH INDIAN SCHOLARS STRIVE THIS HARD TO REVIVE A DEAD (NOT IN PUBLIC USE,"EXTINCT") LANGUAGE,

WHY SHOULDN'T WE TAKE ANY STEPS TO REJUVENATE ANOTHER CLASSICAL LANGUAGE THAT IS STILL STANDING TALL AND ALIV?(ESPECIALLY WHEN THE BRAHMINISTIC ANTI-TAMIL (JJ) TN GOVT IS NOT CARING TO UPHOLD EITHER THE GREATNESS OF TAMIL OR TAMIL PEOPLE?)

WE ARE JUST AN NGO TAMIL LOYALIST AND AMATEUR SCHOLARS DOING OUR EARNEST DUTY THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY DEPT OF TAMIL,TN GOVT, JUST LIKE DEPT'S OF SANSKRIT WORK HARD IN THE CENTRAL AND NORTH INDIAN STATE GOVT'S.

AND ALSO WE DONT HAVE TO ENVY ON ANY OTHER LANGUAGE ,THE VICEVERSA IS TRUE ACTUALLY.

[Ilavenil]

LOST WORDS which give equivalent meanings for the present

foreign words in use[/b][/i]. eg;

nakshathiram=vinnmeen,naannmeen,...



Hi Senthil,

Only after you had mentioned, I did realize that not only English but also Sanskrit is a foreign language to Tamil. How often do we use the word "Vinmeen" for stars? If this continues for decades we would even forget that such a word existed. :roll:

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear Thiru senthikumaras,

Tamil vocabulary is vast and for one word lot of equivalent words are already existing.

In 'Koodal' literature the flow of language was not affected because natural rhytham of tamil was maintained through unshrinked / phonetically changed words.

As you put forth, a lot of 'Koodal' words can be reaccomodated for scientific words.

The higher education scenorio in tamil land should be in such a way to incorporate one language formula.

Then only what we think will come true.

My opinion on sanskrit is that it evolved from tamil. Its sound is not matching tamil. It was never spoken by masses. It is an arrangement of pragrid.

Phonetically resembling words of sanskrit with tamil is mentioned as ' Tharsama chol' in 'nannul' grammar. Phonetically changed words of sanskrit is called 'Tharpava chol'.

The one language in India which spread secular ideas is tamil. Sanskrit based on one religion and that is the case with other languages of India.

I think tamil is more fittable to preserve indian ideals than sanskrit which is elevated by Indian central government thinking that it will preserve unity of India. It will spread hatred only among people of indian masses. That is true from the experience of past 50 years.

f.s.gandhi

[aravindhan]

I think when someone invents something, he has to name it and it definitely cannot be a some word that already exists. If we have to learn the new word anyway, why not it be in tamil itself??? :wink:

I agree entirely, and will add three further reasons. The first is scientific, the second is aesthetic, and the third is social.

The scientific reason is that experts in pedagogy have long argued that lexical transparency helps children learn a language. It is no accident that in Europe, children who speak English (which has a high degree of borrowings) have the most problems with literacy and language skills, and those who speak languages like Finnish and Icelandic (which have very few loanwords) tend to be the most articulate. So, even if it causes problems for one generation, in the long term constructing Tamil words rather than importing foreign words is much better.

To give you an example from this very post - an English speaker who has not had advanced studies will not even have any idea what sort of concepts "pedagogy" or "lexical transparency" are about. On the other hand, any Tamil can understand what "kaRpittalnUl" and "mozhi teLivu" refer to, even if he knows nothing about education theory or linguistics.

The aesthetic reason is that there is a beauty - almost a poetry - to the way Tamil is spoken by even illiterate farmers. The reason Bharatiyar's poetry is so beautiful is that he rooted it in rural metaphor. The reason the purananuru has the power to move us so much even today is that the songs were based on the folk traditions of the ancient bards. This is the unique heritage of the Tamil language - far from exalting the traditions of the aristocracy, our best literature has always grounded itself in the voices of the ordinary people. The cities - especially Chennai - are losing this tradition as the speech is more and more influenced by aangilam and vadanaattu mozhi. But this tradition is part of the natural genius of our language and is part of what has made it great. It is best perpetuated by developing the language along simple lines using simple metaphors. This has been the approach of the government of Tamil Nadu all along. Words like "vaanoli", "tholaikkatchi", "olivanki" and even "midivaNDi" and "pErundu" reflect this, and we should certainly use them to preserve and nurture this unique beauty of Tamil.

The social reason is that the use of words with foreign derivations - which are not lexically transparent - is typically used to reinforce the dominance of the educated over the illiterate. The "articulate" upper classes use the fancy foreign words, whereas the "inarticulate" lower classes use native words which are considered "inferior" and a sign of inability to use "polished speech". It is no accident that English - which has traditionally nurtured one of the most class-based societies - has a very strong tradition of using foreign words, whereas the Nordic languages - which have nurtured egalitarian societies - tend to construct words from local roots. The ancient Tamil tradition was egalitarian, and we should not shape our language in a way which detracts from that.

tamizhil aangila vaarthaikaL kalappadhil enna EraNamo... enakku viLangavillai. Vayiramaalaiyil evanaavadhu paral kOppana?

[senthilkumaras]

People donot know that even the British govt., constantly coins and brings about new words for ever evolving social and technical adjectives, deriving from old root words of medieval English,French and Latin words;and quickly introducing those newly coined words at the midschool and high school level itself then and there;coining of new words is not only for new products in the market but more for adjectives with all shades -ligt,medium and heavy for each of them.
As also new words are coined in Tamilzh or for that purpose in any language, to promote the identity of that product or that shade of character of a product or a person or a group of people among the commoners speaking the language.

[Sudhaama]

.
Brought forward... for Continuation of Discusiions.

[sar]

Friends,

Although there are different ways of approaching the problem of lack new words especially for science and technological inventions such as as computer, the solution has to be approached to make the usage long lasting and more sensible.

either complete trans-lieration ex. kanini

or taking the word as such as computer.

the problem of taking word the computer as such in to Tamil, may cause confusions in long term. Why?? Let me explain.

If you take in any language the pattern of words either noun or verb are derived from a root word, a single root word leads to many branch words.... etimologists like FSGandhi would explain how... In fact in tamil has EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY IN THIS REGARD.
The tamil vowels, a,e,u lead a top high position in words branching out... this is my beleif.

Remember, when we take the word ex computer as such into tamil would damage the WORD STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF ROOT WORDS AND BRANCH WORDS, leading to damaging the eminence of tamil.

In english we got the word compute which is verb, now the question will arise... whether the verb compute has to be taken in to tamil...??? If the answer is going to be yes, then thats all.... whats difference??? you are losing tamil's identity, which is also more important in this time to make tamil survive, its my strong beleif to make stay Tamil in its original greatness, not corrupt Tamil's word structural integrity, in the act of saving Tamil.

if you take the word bus, the word bus is not only used for the vehicle, if you look into the etimology it would mean multi-passenging, as far as my understanding in usage. we use universal serial bus (USB) in computer technology, which might seem totally unrelated to the vehicle bus in the first look. but how does the linguistic etimology works out?? how we are going to tackle reasonable rooting of the words if we keep on taking the words as such into tamil.

similiarly the term electro, branches out so many technological words including the verb electrify meaning charge... which present tamil beautifully handles as 'MinnetRu'!! MinnetRam means electrification=charge - noun. 'min' replacing 'electro'... Now, how do you plan for handling this... thiru Sudhaamaaa???? do you want all the words electricity, electron, electro, electrify, and the whole lot of words in tamil as such.... totally wont we go making mad in one day.....?

on the otherhand as an obvious fact i have seen no one using as such (including me) to use the word minnetru for charge in practical usage.

the best thing is to encourage etimological tamil to develop in to schools, or in the worst case instead use it as a english word insertion into tamil text and slowly(possibly as fast as we can) improve the tamil words .. yes the time is critical to save the language... but still that would be the best of the time... but whom to take effort... who is there to support?? please think about it.

[Sudhaama]

.
. Is Tamil UNFIT... or INFERIOR to other Languages?

In any Foreign countries...if any Two or more persons of Non-English Nations...

...are found to be conversing EXCLUSIVELY IN ENGLISH...

...mostly it used to be TAMILIANS ONLY.

Are they lacking Tamil Knowledge? Or perhaps they do not know Tamil.?...

..Or Born and brought up in English as Mother-Tongue, being domiciled.?

No. Their Mother-Tongue is Tamil and most of such Tamilians are quite fluent in Tamil too.!!

Contrarily any Chinese or Japanese or French... (conspicuously to quote amongst others)...

...converse amongst themselves in their respective Mother-Tongue ONLY...

...even if they possess better fluency in English.!

And the strange truth is... all other Indians... EXCEPT TAMILIANS...

..prefer to converse in their Mother-Tongue only...

..especially Bengalis, Malayalees and Gujarathis...

..irrespective of their Status and English knowledge at par or even better.

Whereas... it is ONLY TAMILIANS...prefer to converse in English... even amongst their Group of people...

...not only while they are in Foreign countries...

..but also within Tamilnadu itself.!!

What a PITY.!!.

Perhaps Tamil is INFERIOR or UNFIT for conversations.!! ...or...

Is it below the prestige of... (MOST OR SOME.?)... of the Tamilians to converse in Tamil.?

..Or English is preferable for General conversation too?
.

[Sudhaama]

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[P_R]

அன்புள்ள திரு.சுதாமா, அரிய தகவலுக்கு நன்றி.
சம்ஸ்க்ர்தம்-தமிழ் இரண்டையும் இணைக்கும் தேவை ராமானுஜருக்கும் முன்னாலே இருந்திருக்கும் அல்லவா. அவருக்கு முன் வந்த ஆச்சார்யர்கள் எல்லாம் தமிழ்-சம்ஸ்க்ர்தம் மொழிகளில் தனித்தனியாக தான் பேசி எழுதினார்களா ?

மணிப்ர்வாளம் தமிழ்-சம்ஸ்க்ர்த கலப்பு மட்டுமா அல்லது பொதுவாக பிற மொழிச் சொற்களும் உண்டா ? பௌத்த நூல்கள் பல பிராக்ருத மொழியில் இருந்ததால் அம்மொழி சொற்கள் இணைந்த பொது மொழிக்கும் தேவை இருந்திருக்குமே.

இந்தியாவில் இதுபோல உத்தேசத்துடன் செய்யப்பட்ட இருமொழிக்கலப்புகள் வேறு ஏதேனும் உள்ளனவா ?

இருபதாம் நூற்றாண்டின் முற்பகுதியில் கூட பொதுவாக எழுத்துத்தமிழில் சம்ஸ்க்ர்த சொற்கள் விரவி இருப்பதைப் பார்க்கிறோம். இது மணிப்ரவாளத்தில் எச்சமா ?

அந்த கால்த்தில் மணிப்ரவாலத்தில் பேசும்பொழுது/எழுதும்பொழுது ஒரு தனி மொழியில் எழுதுகிறோம், தமிழில் அல்ல, என்ற பிரக்ஞை எப்போதும் இருந்துவந்ததா ?
இது தளர்ந்தபோது தான் பொதுவாக தமிழ் பேச்சு/எழுத்து வழக்கில் சம்ஸ்க்ர்தம் அதிகம் பயன்படுத்தப் பட்டது என்ற புரிதல் சரியா ? ஆமெனில் எந்த காலத்தில் இது நிகழ்ந்ததாகக் கூறலாம் ?

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தமிழர்களுக்கே தமிழ்-மொழி மறந்து-விட்டதோ.?


- "அழிச்சாட்டியம்".!




mukA using the word "அழிச்சாட்டியம்" :lol:

http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/news/2010/05/10/admk-mlas-walk-tamil-nadu-assembly.html

அழிச்சாட்டியம் = வறட்டுப் பிடிவாதம் / சண்டித்தனம் / Adamance.

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