Favorite Director [Archive]

crajkumar_be

16th May 2007, 09:00 AM

Nandri hai Nerd

None of the films take sides, at least from my view - in fact it deals about War without any maneuvers - if at all they were against someone, it was against their own country and proved that War was the epitome of insult to humanity and comes with a comeuppance of moral decadence.

Yeah, The Deer hunter actually doesn't stick its leg into the actual crux of the issue but makes it up with the characters, transforming through the Vietnam war. The whole "Russian Roulette" angle was debatable but that works for the movie as it was shown to 'affect' their lives beyond just 'death'(although there is nothing more permanent than that). How this indirectly affects the whole group back in little town from Streep to Cazale - at least how their cohesion changes post-war when Deniro comes back. The only big worry was: It shows Vietnamese in a bad light - thats the big glitch. But the transformation(which elicits a strong Anti-war lash out) undermines Uncle Sam's cause!
It shows the extremity of Post traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) with Christopher Walken's character(in fact every character undergo a profound change) . PSTD was also the base for OS's BOTFOJ for the important phase of the movie. Scorsese's 'Taxi driver' lays no emphasis on War but it also deals with PTSD of an ex marine - in Forrest Gump, Gary Sinise's character has eminent signs of PTSD. My question is, the movies touch upon "degradation of American soldiers" due to war, they don't justify the cause at any point! How come they are called to be have some bias. Maybe because of 'false portray' of Vietnam people and exaggerations of situations could have been the reason (or) Innuendos ? If there is one thing that BOTFOJ can claim, it is 'crystal clear transparency' but it was way too bogged down instead of dealing it in a subtle way - somehow that prevents it from being a favorite.

I beg to disagree with Platoon, It was not a typical Oliver Stone film like his later efforts which IMO has became more and more pathetic over the years - In fact the whole Vietnam trilogy (haven't seen the last one which deals with Vietnam side of things) doesn't preach or support US in any form. The first one tells them from the whole platoon perspective.

I think 'Apocalypse now' would rank as the best Anti-War movie from Hollyland and whole of celluloid dealing on Vietnam war. It deserves every bit of praise IMO. Coppola's efforts were worth it and the documentary of its making is a classic in its own right. Coming back to AN, No other film has engrossed the viewer down the doomed gutters of War - Right from the title, it was against War in every sense. It's a great character study (With evidence/reports- a style that builds up tension) and The narrative from Sheen heightens the intensity but we always get the feeling of pseudo-realistic artifacts when it seem to vilify 'Kurtz' and Sheen's interaction in the journey- the Trauma of American soldiers is lethal - every character from 'Eccentric but Old' Duvall to young Fishburne (forgot the character names) - portrayed the evils of war - and almost every deterioration it brings about - gut wrenching. The climax signifies the title like no other movie - Hauntingly brilliant. Insane to start with, 'Kurtz' became a question and when it answers - it answers the larger question, war has left a void over stability of men - the movie is a visual haunt fest with exquisite symbolism - All this and not to forget the lines in the movie and hw effective it was - None gets more intense and gut wrenching than The legendary words "Horror..Horrror" - which sums up the context of war!

To summarize, the aforementioned movies are primarily 'Anti-War' and deprecates the home strategies at different levels - With final statement of 'Shooting in the foot' stamped over it.

Looks like, our perception seem to vary to the extreme :)

Like i said, its just more than coincidence that when HW claims to be anti-war, all its films show only the American angle - trauma, dehumanization blah blah.
Its virtually making the perpetrator the victim. With that kind of radical shift, its difficult for me to take the anti-war angle seriously. Atleast lets just say that it didn't work for me.
"Bomb the damn place to pulp, destroy entire peoples, but hey, WE are the victims, not the people who died or the country which got raped. And let's call it anti-war".

As an anti-war film, Paths Of Glory is much better.

How this indirectly affects the whole group back in little town from Streep to Cazale - at least how their cohesion changes post-war when Deniro comes back

The very last scene - the movie ends with a patriotic song being played. I think i discussed this with Kannan earlier - the scene was supposed to be ironic. IMO, if a scene has to hit me for irony, it doesn't help when your BGM 'supports' seem to say exactly the opposite - siding with the 'heroes'. Maybe my ideals are getting in the way of appreciating good cinema or maybe i missed something which was obvious for everybody else :)

None of the films take sides, at least from my view

BOTFOJ - Cruise speaks out to the TV crew about how this whole war is a big lie.....

To summarize, the aforementioned movies are primarily 'Anti-War' and deprecates the home strategies at different levels - With final statement of 'Shooting in the foot' stamped over it.

adhu dhaan problem.. "shooting OUR foot" - nu dhaan solraanga :)

idha konjam paarunga
Hollywood Distortion - http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=76

groucho070

16th May 2007, 09:22 AM

Here's my take on all the movies you guys mentioned. No serious analysis. Just how I feel about them, in my own semi-literate way.

Apocalypse Now:
As I mentioned. Absolute favourite. Subject is one, but the delivery is totally another. Mind blowing. Yes, the making of this movie is a legend by itself.

At this juncture Coppola is Kurtz. The monster, at the edge of his mind. The, movie, to me is more about hell than the hell hole. "Saigon" says Willard, "Sh*t!" The first dialogue of the movie.

I tried reading Conrad's Heart of Darkness, but it was too tough for my simple brain. But AN went through my brain like hot knife through butter.

Is this an anti-war movie? I don't know. I think of it as a monster movie. How a man can become a monster and how usually monster self-destructs. A reflection of what Coppola was going through.

The Deer Hunter:
I had tough time with this movie. There is something very right-wing about it. I had trouble getting through the wedding scene. Too long. I just didn't care. And suddenly, boom, we are in Vietnam. Both De Niro and Walken were great. But that's about it.

Platoon:
Anti-war? I don't know. But this is an episode of a soldier's life. Stone's own experience. There could have been a serious character-study, but Stone was more interested in the destructive ambience. The war, the drug, the music. What it does to these young men. It could be Vietnam. It could be battle at Waterloo. It's a timeless piece.

crajkumar_be

16th May 2007, 09:24 AM

To add my favorites to the list:

Coen Brothers: Fargo, Big Lebowski, Oh Brother..., Raising Arizona, Blood Simple, The Lady Killers, The Man Who Wasn't There, etc..

Francois Truffaut: 400 Blows, The Wild Child, Day For Night....

crajkumar_be

16th May 2007, 10:26 AM

The Deer Hunter:
I had trouble getting through the wedding scene. Too long. I just didn't care. And suddenly, boom, we are in Vietnam. Both De Niro and Walken were great. But that's about it.

Well, i loved the way the director sets us up for the rest of the movie with that one long scene. Take away that scene, the impact of what happenes later would be diminished.

Nerd

16th May 2007, 10:41 AM

On the current discussion, I have not seen DH and Platoon, so I should stay away from it.

I also did not get the Anti-war side of FMJ and PoG is a better anti-war movie. The final seen hits you hard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH09cX_Sd4M

This apparently is one of spielberg's favorite scenes ever and after hearing the news of Kubrick's demise, spielberg and his friends watched just this scene and that was enough to bring tears from their eyes :)

Coen Brother: My favorite as well (Fargo, TBL, OBWAT). I hated their BloodSimple :oops:

groucho070

16th May 2007, 12:54 PM

A bit of trivia. The singing German girl? Kubrick married her. Yesss.....

crajkumar_be

16th May 2007, 01:03 PM

A bit of trivia. The singing German girl? Kubrick married her. Yesss.....
Yes, Christiane.. :)

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 02:47 PM

Like i said, its just more than coincidence that when HW claims to be anti-war, all its films show only the American angle - trauma, dehumanization blah blah.
Its virtually making the perpetrator the victim. With that kind of radical shift, its difficult for me to take the anti-war angle seriously. Atleast lets just say that it didn't work for me.
"Bomb the damn place to pulp, destroy entire peoples, but hey, WE are the victims, not the people who died or the country which got raped. And let's call it anti-war".

Oh, appidi varingala. Hmmmm But I guess AN was all about 'raping' of either side. The movies victimized themselves more than the other side. All these movies, at different points were strongly against US strategies.

As an anti-war film, Paths Of Glory is much better.
I agree - But even that, was about the French Army shooting themselves in the foot. Every anti-war movie predominantly deals with a single side. But I do agree, WWI is much different from Vietnam war - this was debauchery.

The very last scene - the movie ends with a patriotic song being played. I think i discussed this with Kannan earlier - the scene was supposed to be ironic. IMO, if a scene has to hit me for irony, it doesn't help when your BGM 'supports' seem to say exactly the opposite - siding with the 'heroes'. Maybe my ideals are getting in the way of appreciating good cinema or maybe i missed something which was obvious for everybody else :)

Yes. "God bless America" slightly spoils the message they drove all along. I guess its for commercial side of things - you know, rise American people's patriotism.

BOTFOJ - Cruise speaks out to the TV crew about how this whole war is a big lie.....
Yeah. I remember. MY point was, none of the other four movies took a side. But I agree with the following point,

adhu dhaan problem.. "shooting OUR foot" - nu dhaan solraanga :)

But as I said, AN dealt with it better because it touches upon inhumanity from American soldiers and later about Vietcong.

idha konjam paarunga
Hollywood Distortion - http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=76

Thanks. Pakuraen :)

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 03:00 PM

Other than the aforementioned:

My other favorites.

Ingmar Bergman - Persona, Wild strawberries, Seventh Seal, Cries and whispers,etc

Luis bunuel - Age of gold, un chien andalou, The exterminating angel, The discreet charm of bourgeoisie

Sergio Leone - Once upon a time in the wEst/America, The good, the bad and the ugly (best in the dollars trilogy)..

Terry Gilliam - Brazil, 12 monkeys, Monty python films, The fisher king, Fear and loathing in las Vegas

crajkumar_be

16th May 2007, 03:07 PM

lancelot

16th May 2007, 03:16 PM

Sergio Leone - Once upon a time in the wEst/America, The good, the bad and the ugly (best in the dollars trilogy)..

Terry Gilliam - Brazil, 12 monkeys, Monty python films, The fisher king, Fear and loathing in las Vegas

:thumbsup:
hehe
:D

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 03:19 PM

crajkumar_be

16th May 2007, 03:24 PM

Oh, appidi varingala. Hmmmm But I guess AN was all about 'raping' of either side. The movies victimized themselves more than the other side. All these movies, at different points were strongly against US strategies.

adhu dhaan illaingaren :)

:oops:
seri, namma thaaraga mantram, Let's agree to disagree :)

Thilak,
Tarkovsky padangal kidaippadhu migavum aridhaga ulladhu...
Found Stalker and Solyaris in RIC Videos, Chennai...
Watched Stalker - puriyala but VERY intriguing. Something quite unlike what i'd ever seen before. vera oru ulagam.

unga kitta dhaan vaangittu polaam nu irukken :mrgreen:

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 03:34 PM

kannannn

16th May 2007, 04:12 PM

Thilak, surprising that you left out 'Ivan's Childhood' in your list of 'Anti War' films. There is so much to talk about that movie and what Tarkovsky wants to say.

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 04:16 PM

Thilak, surprising that you left out 'Ivan's Childhood' in your list of 'Anti War' films. There is so much to talk about that movie and what Tarkovsky wants to say.

I was talking about films about Vietnam war being Anti-war or not.

Of course, IC will obviously feature in my list of films about Anti-war.

kannannn

16th May 2007, 04:16 PM

Francois Truffaut: 400 Blows, The Wild Child, Day For Night....
Ivara eppadi marandhen? :oops: No New Wave without Truffaut..

Also, Makhmalbaf - the man who made the world take note of Iranian cinema.

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 04:21 PM

Iranian movies.

"Children of heaven" and "Taste of Cherry" are my favorites. Haven't seen that many. Kannann, give me your favorites in it.

Few other directors with distinctive style:

Fellini, Antonioni, Godard and Peckinpah.

kannannn

16th May 2007, 04:28 PM

Thilak, Children of Heaven was sweet. I don't say this often, but I liked the optimistic tone of the movie. Another movie I liked was Colours of Paradise - about the struggles of a blind boy and his father trying to unload him from his back and get remarried. Beautiful movie.

As for Makhmalbaf, these are my favouries: The Bicyclist (the endeavour of the human spirit to survive), Hello Cinema (his love for movies is contagious) and Time of Love (something like Run Lola Run).

kannannn

16th May 2007, 04:30 PM

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 04:42 PM

Few other directors with distinctive style:

Fellini, Antonioni, Godard and Peckinpah.
Fellini konjam bore adipparu.. Pona vaaram, 'Scorsese presents' lable paarthu yemandhu poi, 'The Interview (Intervista)'-nnu oru movie vaangittu vandhen. Seriyaana aruvai :cry: :cry: . Apparently, it was one of Scorsese's favourite Fellini movie.

YES unmaiye daan.. But I haven't seen "The interview". I have seen his high prolific films like 81/2 , 'I Vitelloni' (I think this was one of the inspiration for Marty), La dolce vita, Amarcord.

Even in these films, some parts of the film would be boring but then again even Tarkovsky and Bergman are called a 'borefest'. I guess, it depends on the viewer. Whether they can get through the snail-paced screenplay although the length may not be longer.

lancelot

16th May 2007, 04:43 PM

BTW preparing that list of movies in divX.

did you just say DivX?? hmmm thats like my fav word...
i got all the Stanly Kubrick Movies on Divx.. now downloading Martin Scorsese movies...

the last i watched was Casino... enna oru padam.. enna acting... De Nero rocks....

hehe
:D

kannannn

16th May 2007, 05:01 PM

thilak4life

16th May 2007, 05:33 PM

YES unmaiye daan.. But I haven't seen "The interview". I have seen his high prolific films like 81/2 , 'I Vitelloni' (I think this was one of the inspiration for Marty), La dolce vita, Amarcord.

Even in these films, some parts of the film would be boring but then again even Tarkovsky and Bergman are called a 'borefest'.
Ahaa, something to chew upon!! I have seen 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vita too. Let us take all three: Tarkovsky, Bergman and Fellini. When characters in Tarkovsky and Bergman have nothing to say, the director has something. Be it the midway stops of the doctor in 'Wild Strawberries' or the bright red crimson that pervades 'Cries and Whispers', Bergman keeps us engaged. The same goes for Tarkovsky. When our hero is walking by the riverside in 'Solyaris' or when Ivan is dreaming about his mother drawing water from the well (Ivan's Childhood), or when the group of pagans are running naked into the river in 'Andrei Ryublev', we are transfixed by the scenes. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Fellini. I was almost falling asleep during the 'lunch scene' in 8 1/2. Luckily the girls in 8 1/2 were too beautiful for that to happen.

I agree that AT and IB are far better and I loved those particular scenes that you mentioned.

8 1/2 -

Is that the scene where Mastroianni's wife cuss the other lady in the opposite table, goes on to call her a 'whore or bitch'. Then she curses Mastroianni, who ignores it and puts his coolers on and directs them in his mind - a surreal sequence where they both join together and dance - I liked the sequence because of the irony and in fact being a biography about Fellini himself - shows how a director like him interprets that situation. I liked it in fact. Or which scene you're referring to? :?:

kannannn

17th May 2007, 02:16 AM

Yup, that's the scene :). Padame oru maadhiri surreal'la dhaan irundhudhu.. May be I have to watch it again to appreciate it better. I remember liking some scenes though.

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 11:19 AM

Yup, that's the scene :). Padame oru maadhiri surreal'la dhaan irundhudhu.. May be I have to watch it again to appreciate it better. I remember liking some scenes though.

Yes. I think you would like it more the second time - I saw it twice anyway.

Kannann sir,

Important question : Iranian films (or) Italian neo-realistic films?

Wat do you prefer? I mean which culture fazes you(this could be part of the reason) and strikes you hard. Not necessarily Poignancy but it could be for other reasons too :) Name the reasons.

And few other questions:

I liked Haneke's "The piano teacher" but I couldn't get "Funny games" and I didn't finish "Cache" - Should I revisit them?

How realistic are "Der untergang", "The lives of Others", and "Goodbye Lenin" -

How do the germans rate it?
How do you rate them?

Name the top 10 films from Germany.

lancelot

17th May 2007, 11:35 AM

I liked Haneke's "The piano teacher" but I couldn't get "Funny games" and I didn't finish "Cache" - Should I revisit them?

The Piano Teacher was a good movie. i saw it awhile back but i remember that i enjoyed it. it was out in 2000 i think...
sorry i dont know about the other 2 movies

Name the top 10 films from Germany.

i dont think i can give u 10 German movies. but i can defiantly say that Lives Of Others was an amazing movie. one of the best movies iv seen in recent times

hehe
:D

shobana_in

17th May 2007, 11:54 AM

What abt BRIAN DE PALMA

scarface,carlito's way and the untouchables.

his movies are racy and interesting

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 12:33 PM

Lancelot - Yeah, misspelt it = NOT "The taste of others" BUT "The Lives of others".

What abt BRIAN DE PALMA

scarface,carlito's way and the untouchables.

his movies are racy and interesting

Oh yeah, I like him too :)

Racy entertaining films with style. I feel he is the guy who is for intensity !!

kannannn

17th May 2007, 04:43 PM

Kannann sir,

Important question : Iranian films (or) Italian neo-realistic films?

Wat do you prefer? I mean which culture fazes you(this could be part of the reason) and strikes you hard. Not necessarily Poignancy but it could be for other reasons too :) Name the reasons.
:shock: Sir, mor-lam edhukku? As for cinema aesthetics, neo-realism. As for culture, Iranian. Perhaps, because we know very little about them. Also because most of those movies end up being banned in Iran. So, in a way they are anti-establishment and I like that.

I liked Haneke's "The piano teacher" but I couldn't get "Funny games" and I didn't finish "Cache" - Should I revisit them?
Absolutely. Funny Games and Cache are loaded with social and political messages. Trying to catch the messages is a part of watching his movies. Piano Teacher was more about an individual's loneliness. I liked all three, but if I have to rank them it would be Cache, Funny Games and Piano Teacher, in that order.

How realistic are "Der untergang", "The lives of Others", and "Goodbye Lenin" -

How do the germans rate it?
How do you rate them?

Name the top 10 films from Germany.
The Downfall is a subjective take on Hitler, since it is based on his secretary's account. It created quite a furore in Germany for portraying Hitler in a human light. But the director was unfazed. Some Germans I talked to like the movie nonetheless. Goodbye Lenin, I hear, is quite realistic and authentic take on life in East Germany. With all it's humour, there is still an underlying sorrow about what continues to happen. I haven't seen "The lives of others". Theater poga time kidaikardhilla.. DVD release varaikkum wait panna vendiyadhudhaan.

As for top 10, let me try (in no particular order):
1. Tin Drum: A small boy decides to stop growing unable to take the decadence around him. The movie shocks and jolts the viewers. Not for the faint hearted.
2. Downfall: for showing a Hitler we have not seen before. and also for the war scenes.
3. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul: It's not just about racism. The movie goes much beyond it.
4. Wings of desire: Angles wanting to live as humans. Ring a bell?
5. Edukators: what happens when a trio of anti-capitalists kidnap a wealthy entrepreneur?
6. Run Lola Run: Of course, we know about it.
7. Goodbye Lenin: So do we about this.
8. The Marriage of Maria Braun: A part of Fassbinder's BDR trilogy. Picking up the pieces from the war and moving on..
9. Beware of the Holy Whore: A stranded film crew. Everyone in love with everyone else. One of Fassbinder's best.
10. Anti Bodies: Forget the tacky graphics and Christian references. The movie works as a thriller.

Are there movies you would recommend?

What abt BRIAN DE PALMA

scarface,carlito's way and the untouchables.

his movies are racy and interesting
Racy, yes. He also had a distinct style. But he seems repetitive at times. I also didn't like Carlito's way much.

Nerd

17th May 2007, 06:37 PM

Name the top 10 films from Germany.

i dont think i can give u 10 German movies. but i can defiantly say that Lives Of Others was an amazing movie. one of the best movies iv seen in recent times

hehe
:D

The Lives of Others was not a great movie at all. It was pretty darn boring and except the heroine, nothing impressed me. USA's penchant towards german movies fetched it an oscar. Pan's labyrinth was 100 times better and I am a fantasy hater :)

I have just seen 2 out of kannan's 10 (Downfall and Lola)

Das Experiment is a german movie I liked and would like to recommend :P

shobana_in

17th May 2007, 06:48 PM

kannan.....u dint carlito's way?

man...thats my favourite action movie.

may be a treat for al pacino fans...

lancelot

17th May 2007, 07:19 PM

The Lives of Others was not a great movie at all. It was pretty darn boring and except the heroine, nothing impressed me. USA's penchant towards german movies fetched it an oscar. Pan's labyrinth was 100 times better and I am a fantasy hater :)

well i tot "The Lives Of Others" was amazing movie. the ending was so sad an mellow.. hmmm...
it was a slow movie.... but it was not boring.. to me at lest...

but i also think Pan's Labyrinth was the best out of the movies nominated for the Oscar... it was one of the best fantasy movies iv seen...

i guess ppl see things differently... rite Nerd?? :D

hehe
:D

kannannn

17th May 2007, 07:48 PM

Das Experiment is a german movie I liked and would like to recommend :P
The plot line seems very interesting. Will catch it soon :D.

kannan.....u dint carlito's way?

man...thats my favourite action movie.

may be a treat for al pacino fans...

The movie was kind of predictable. After he throws out the young ganster from his club, I knew his end was near. Pacino was great though as usual :2thumbsup: . I liked The Untouchables better.

Nerd

17th May 2007, 08:10 PM

Yes Lancy :thumbsup:

And yeh Untouchables is the best BDP movie :P

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:13 PM

:shock: Sir, mor-lam edhukku? As for cinema aesthetics, neo-realism. As for culture, Iranian. Perhaps, because we know very little about them. Also because most of those movies end up being banned in Iran. So, in a way they are anti-establishment and I like that.

'Sir' - I guess it comes automatically, especially when I write faster, it reflects what I think the very moment I type. No offense intended :lol:

I like Neo-realism for its aesthetics and it has also hit me harder. But come to think of it, I haven't watched that many Iranian movies. Forgot to thank you for the earlier recommendations :)

Absolutely. Funny Games and Cache are loaded with social and political messages. Trying to catch the messages is a part of watching his movies. Piano Teacher was more about an individual's loneliness. I liked all three, but if I have to rank them it would be Cache, Funny Games and Piano Teacher, in that order.

Ahaa, Got to watch them again. Haneke's movies impress me, because I am a sucker for disturbing movies and the 'dont-get-the-first-time' types. Although I seem to remember my lack of attention while watching "Funny games" - that would have prevented me from following it more closely. Should watch them again :)

The Downfall is a subjective take on Hitler, since it is based on his secretary's account. It created quite a furore in Germany for portraying Hitler in a human light. But the director was unfazed. Some Germans I talked to like the movie nonetheless. Goodbye Lenin, I hear, is quite realistic and authentic take on life in East Germany. With all it's humour, there is still an underlying sorrow about what continues to happen. I haven't seen "The lives of others". Theater poga time kidaikardhilla.. DVD release varaikkum wait panna vendiyadhudhaan.

I liked "Downfall" and "Goodbye lenin", I always thought Downfall would be a real travesty in reality (every historical character is questionable). GL was nice and neat - So, I had a doubt

I haven't seen "The lives of others" yet. So, same pinch :lol:

No Dvds for foreign films here, only download :D

As for top 10, let me try (in no particular order):
1. Tin Drum: A small boy decides to stop growing unable to take the decadence around him. The movie shocks and jolts the viewers. Not for the faint hearted.
2. Downfall: for showing a Hitler we have not seen before. and also for the war scenes.
3. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul: It's not just about racism. The movie goes much beyond it.
4. Wings of desire: Angles wanting to live as humans. Ring a bell?
5. Edukators: what happens when a trio of anti-capitalists kidnap a wealthy entrepreneur?
6. Run Lola Run: Of course, we know about it.
7. Goodbye Lenin: So do we about this.
8. The Marriage of Maria Braun: A part of Fassbinder's BDR trilogy. Picking up the pieces from the war and moving on..
9. Beware of the Holy Whore: A stranded film crew. Everyone in love with everyone else. One of Fassbinder's best.
10. Anti Bodies: Forget the tacky graphics and Christian references. The movie works as a thriller.

:notworthy:

1. First on the priority

2.6.7 - Paathachu.. :P

4 - It was remade with Nic Cage and Meg Ryan by hollyland - 'City of angels'? I saw that long time back - it was so-so if my memory serves right. But I believe, WOD is rated highly in imdb as well.

Thanks a lot - looks like I got few titles to download.

Are there movies you would recommend?
Das Experiment - Just Like Nerd, I liked it - Disturbing and thought provoking. :thumbsup:

What abt BRIAN DE PALMA

scarface,carlito's way and the untouchables.

his movies are racy and interesting
Racy, yes. He also had a distinct style. But he seems repetitive at times. I also didn't like Carlito's way much.

I agree. He is repetitive at times. But I liked 'Carlito's way' being an Al fan(not as a great movie) but it's no way near 'Scarface', that I agree. Haven't seen his horror outing 'Carrie' and 'Causalities of war' about Vietnam war. :)

shobana_in

17th May 2007, 08:18 PM

Yes Lancy :thumbsup:

And yeh Untouchables is the best BDP movie :P

i liked the sharp shooter...wuts his name...that guy appeared in godfather 3

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:21 PM

Nerd and lancelot,

I liked Pan's labyrinth too. And I hate fantasy :lol:

And about De palma,

I think he has the distinctive style in making masala movies like 'Mission impossible'.

He should also thank Thalaivar's 'Guru' for the intense maneuver in CIA headquarters :lol:

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:21 PM

Yes Lancy :thumbsup:

And yeh Untouchables is the best BDP movie :P

i liked the sharp shooter...wuts his name...that guy appeared in godfather 3

Andy Garcia?

Nerd

17th May 2007, 08:23 PM

Andy Garcia, he is there in Ocean's series as well :P

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:27 PM

Andy Garcia, he is there in Ocean's series as well :P

So in O13, Al pacino and Andy Garcia back in a heist film.

shobana_in

17th May 2007, 08:27 PM

yeah andy garcia.

all the guys rocked in untouchables

andy garcia,sean connery,deniro

esp the scene where connery selects andy garcia...

shobana_in

17th May 2007, 08:31 PM

how abt the "hollywood kamalhaasan" mel gibson

Nerd

17th May 2007, 08:33 PM

how abt the "hollywood kamalhaasan" mel gibson

I have just seen BraveHeart and PoftC. And I guess HR and VirumaaNdi are much better than those :P

shobana_in

17th May 2007, 08:36 PM

how abt the "hollywood kamalhaasan" mel gibson

I have just seen BraveHeart and PoftC. And I guess HR and VirumaaNdi are much better than those :P

i just mentioned him as kamalhaasan because of his all round ability

production,direction,acting.

like clint eastwood

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:36 PM

how abt the "hollywood kamalhaasan" mel gibson

Like KH who chooses off-beat scripts, MG makes an off-beat film which is unique and different from other contemporaries - but I would be glad if he stops this history defying films with his own version to it. Like Nerd, I don't think he is better than KH.

Nerd

17th May 2007, 08:38 PM

OTOH, clint is a pretty good director. He is much better than MG :thumbsup: He is one of my fav actors as well :P

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:43 PM

lancelot

17th May 2007, 08:54 PM

Andy Garcia, he is there in Ocean's series as well :P

So in O13, Al pacino and Andy Garcia back in a heist film.

watch "Confidence" Andy Garcia was super in that...

hehe
:D

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 08:59 PM

Andy Garcia, he is there in Ocean's series as well :P

So in O13, Al pacino and Andy Garcia back in a heist film.

watch "Confidence" Andy Garcia was super in that...

hehe
:D

Sure I would. Already, thalai-ku mela vellam.. Kannannn sir sonna padangal oda "Confidence", "The lives of Others" and "The devil backbone" pakuraen. Thanks :)

lancelot

17th May 2007, 09:04 PM

as for Mel Gibson i think he is awesome... iv enjoyed some of his movies thoroughly specially "Braveheart" and "Apocalypto" :thumbsup:

but can he be compared to Clint Eastwood? NO WAY!!!

Clint is "the good the bad and the ugly" :yes:

lancelot

17th May 2007, 09:18 PM

Sure I would. Already, thalai-ku mela vellam.. Kannannn sir sonna padangal oda "Confidence", "The lives of Others" and "The devil backbone" pakuraen. Thanks :)

hmmm.... i didnt come across a post about "The Devils Backbone"
anywayz...
the best thing about Guillermo del Toro (director of "The Devils Backbone" and "Pan's Labyrinth") is that he mixes fantasy with some other story... he has a very unique way of giving a fantasy movie. in "Pan's Labyrinth" it was War and Violence and the love of a mother an daughter...
in "The Devils Backbone" it was fantasy mixed with Horror and love...

i jus love the 2 movies... cannot wait to see what he comes up with next...

but the same dose not got to his English movies "Blade II" and "Hellboy" dont get me wrong... they were 2 very good movies... but they lack the magic he created in his Spanish movies...

he turns out to be one of my To Watch Directors in the Future

look out for "Hellboy II - The Golden Army" and "3993"

hehe
:D

thilak4life

17th May 2007, 09:21 PM

lancelot,

I guess you recommend TDB in the other thread?

lancelot

17th May 2007, 09:23 PM

lancelot,

I guess you recommend TDB in the other thread?

oh yes yes.. lol
hehe
:D

kannannn

29th May 2007, 11:50 PM

Tarkovsky on Cinema.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrzp_hZNxM

Tarkovsky on art in general. The man is deeply philosophical (as can be expected :D )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27XlEDLdtE (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aedXnLpKBCw (Part II)

crajkumar_be, can you spot the similiarity between Tarkovsky's views in Part I and Stalker? :wink:

kannannn

30th May 2007, 12:08 AM

Found a clip of 'Mirror' in the 'related videos'. There is something about Tarkovsky and water (in this case rain). As usual beautiful cinematography..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBZsj8FPSbo

crajkumar_be

30th May 2007, 11:16 AM

great

2nd June 2007, 01:57 PM

No one has mentioned about
Sydney Lumet
Sergio Leone :shock:

ajaybaskar

8th June 2007, 04:47 PM

Steven Soderbergh

kannannn

12th June 2007, 07:57 PM

thilak4life

12th June 2007, 08:15 PM

I knew Tarantino was a fan of Miike, but now he has gone one step further to star in Miike's upcoming movie:
http://www.rediff.com/movies/2007/jun/12look.htm

I agree that Tarantino as an actor sucks, but I am just curious to see how he would fit in a Japanese movie. (heck, curious is an understatement. I am restless to see Miike's characterisation for T.)

One thing that I like about QT, is to hype 'Oriental' cinema. Not just his love for martial arts films (like how he promoted Yimou Zhang and Jet Li's 'Ying xiong'/ 'hero'). QT has also paid homage to great Japanese Animes, Manga and films with KB 1 and 2. I think his love for Miike was expected. Who wouldn't love the master of stylish gore and violence?

And Kannannn, did you notice the AK influence in miike? Even he wears spectacles always. :P Another AK coolers influence - Wong Kar wai ! :)

kannannn

12th June 2007, 08:36 PM

One thing that I like about QT, is to hype 'Oriental' cinema. Not just his love for martial arts films (like how he promoted Yimou Zhang and Jet Li's 'Ying xiong'/ 'hero'). QT has also paid homage to great Japanese Animes, Manga and films with KB 1 and 2. I think his love for Miike was expected. Who wouldn't love the master of stylish gore and violence?
Yup :D. He is said to have supported 'Hostel' just because of the influence from 'Audition'. And KB 1 also paid homage to another movie - Battle Royale (the Japanese school girl fighter is a character from that film).

And Kannannn, did you notice the AK influence in miike? Even he wears spectacles always. :P Another AK coolers influence - Wong Kar wai ! :)
Yes :D, I noticed the coolers connection, but I don't get the influence. Is it the long shots?

thilak4life

12th June 2007, 08:38 PM

Nerd

30th July 2007, 10:16 PM

[tscii:9029268521]Legendary film director Ingmar Bergman dead

Academy Award-winning Swedish film director and dramatist Ingmar Bergman, died on Monday. He was 89.

Bergman died at his home on the isle of Faaroe, off Sweden's east coast, the Swedish Film Institute said in a statement.

In his lifetime, he directed more than 50 movies, wrote scripts for another dozen, and was responsible for 168 works for the stage, television and radio.

The Swedish film director whose depiction of anguished human relationships made him an icon of the art-house cinema and inspired followers including Woody Allen spent his final years in seclusion on the windswept Baltic island of Faaroe.

During a career spanning eight decades, Bergman developed a body of work known for austere drama with recurring themes such as art, faith and the meaning of life.

Bergman made his last film Saraband in 2003. It was greeted in a review by Time magazine as “the last roar from a legend”.

Three of Bergman's movies received Oscars for best foreign language film: The Virgin Spring (1960), about a 14th-century Swede who avenges the rape and death of his daughter; Through a Glass Darkly (1961), about a crumbling modern family; and his final film, Fanny and Alexander (1982), a story of terrifying adolescence.

------------------------------------
R I P :cry:
I haven't seen any of his films though :oops:[/tscii:9029268521]

crajkumar_be

30th July 2007, 10:50 PM

RIP Bergman :(

Another link http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/23ADD311-05B0-4482-BDF6-9B3F9B7767A3.htm

I've seen Virgin Spring, The Seventh Seal and Wild Strawberries.
Need to watch SS and WS again....

P.S: I think in the DVD commentary of Virgin Spring, i heard that critics like Goddard (he was a critic before he made films) were very critical of the movie. Wonder in what way exactly...

kannannn

31st July 2007, 02:59 AM

A sad loss for the world of cinema :( . Bergman had the rare talent of bringing to screen what he really intended. Besides being a great filmmaker, he was also a supporter of good cinema. He was the one who gave financial and moral support to Tarkovsky when he defected Soviet Union (Tarkovsky's last movie was in Swedish). A great talent and a great human being. Bergman, we will miss you :cry: .

P_R

31st July 2007, 08:55 AM

It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson.
It was a luxury I never afforded Mr.Bergman.

thilak4life

31st July 2007, 11:41 AM

RIP Ingmar :(

Devar Magan

31st July 2007, 12:34 PM

crajkumar_be

31st July 2007, 12:59 PM

is he related to Ingrid bergman???
Ingrid is just an amazing actress.. my favourite..
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingrid_Bergman) says
Although they worked together, Bergman is not related to fellow Swedish director Ingmar Bergman

thilak4life

1st August 2007, 12:33 AM

Just in case if you people didn't know. Antonioni is dead! :(

kannannn

24th August 2007, 01:18 AM

One genius on another: Woody Allen on Bergman (he also touches upon Antonioni) in Time (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1648917,00.html)

Sanjeevi

24th August 2007, 06:29 PM

Manoj Night Shyamalan

I am just wondering nobody did not utter a single word about him just because of he is Indian? :sad: (tamilian?)
His Sixth Sense listed in 27th place in All-time box office collection in USA and 29th in Worldwide collection.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

ramsri

7th November 2007, 07:33 PM

And yeh Untouchables is the best BDP movie :P

The sequence at the railway station (where Ness and Stone - Costner and Garcia respectively - nab Capone's bookkeeper) really sticks in the memory. Amazingly filmed scene - everything about it is perfect: the buildup (Ness waiting impatiently at the top of the staircase; big clock over the entrance ticking away), the action (lawmen and gunmen exchanging fire; baby's pram tripping down the stairway; Ness in pursuit, shooting away) and the breathtaking crescendo (Stone appearing from behind the pillar, throwing an extra revolver at Ness while continuing to shoot, then sliding to support the pram as it comes to a stop the end of the staircase...) :thumbsup:
Whole thing plays out in slow motion, overlapping frames with no BGM... mindblowing... :notworthy:
One of De Palma's best efforts visually - a level he never could surpass (even in supposedly more stylized flicks like MI)

crajkumar_be

9th November 2007, 08:13 AM

Ramsri,
That scene was originally from Battleship Potemkin. I guess that scene should be the most copied scene ever. Soorasamharam la kooda andha scene-a vechirukkaanga :lol:

thilak4life

9th November 2007, 12:37 PM

CR,

The scene could have been copied, but don't you think the 'stylish' execution from De Palma elevated it from the original BP, I just love that scene from The untouchables

crajkumar_be

9th November 2007, 02:34 PM

CR,

The scene could have been copied, but don't you think the 'stylish' execution from De Palma elevated it from the original BP, I just love that scene from The untouchables
Agreed!

ramsri

10th November 2007, 12:00 PM

Ramsri,
That scene was originally from Battleship Potemkin. I guess that scene should be the most copied scene ever. Soorasamharam la kooda andha scene-a vechirukkaanga :lol:

Oh really?? Didnt know about the Soorsamharam bit...
I knew the scene was copied by apna Bollywood in the monster hit Tezaab - Anil Kapoor and Suresh Oberoi replacing Kevin Costner and Andy Garcia :x, and a local cooperative bank (complete with 20-step staircase and all) taking the place of Chicago's Union Station :banghead:

Hey, and BTW - wasnt Soorsamharam a take on Peter Weir's Witness??
(Hesitate to use terms like "inspired" or "copied" out of respect for some of the stimulating discussions we've had on other threads :D)

P_R

10th November 2007, 06:47 PM

Also in Leslie Nielsen's Naked Gun 33 1/3 :lol:

Nerd

13th November 2007, 10:40 AM

An excerpt from Ebert's review on Coen Brothers' next film, No country for old men:

Many of the scenes in "No Country for Old Men" are so flawlessly constructed that you want them to simply continue, and yet they create an emotional suction drawing you to the next scene. Another movie that made me feel that way was "Fargo." To make one such film is a miracle. Here is another.

Looks like this movie has pleased all the critics. Can't wait to watch :P

crajkumar_be

13th November 2007, 10:49 AM

kannannn

13th November 2007, 07:26 PM

A question from 'Fargo' to which there has been no satisfactory answer (in IMDB):

What is the significance of Margie's Japanese friend? Why that character?

And another one that seemed out of place - when the killer is finally arrested and is being taken in the car, Margie says that she can't see how money can be a catalyst to his crimes. For a police office who has been in the force for long, it is difficult to believe that she hasn't seen enough money driven crimes. Sabayorin karuthu enna?

thilak4life

13th November 2007, 08:08 PM

What is the significance of Margie's Japanese friend? Why that character?

There was a Ebert-Scorsese special, discussing about their top 4 films from the 90s. Fargo featured in Ebert's list (Scorsese named some less popular films, and he named my favorite war film "Thin red line"), they discussed about this character, how he plays an important part in the narrative. The husband (brilliantly played by William H Macy) and the Japanese guy are quite similar with their nervousness, later when Margie discovers that the japanese guy cooked up a story, she immediately connects it to Macy, and goes back to investigate him, the rest follows..

And another one that seemed out of place - when the killer is finally arrested and is being taken in the car, Margie says that she can't see how money can be a catalyst to his crimes. For a police office who has been in the force for long, it is difficult to believe that she hasn't seen enough money driven crimes. Sabayorin karuthu enna?

Well, the guy chases back few kids (and leaves his large bootprint) to brutally kill 'em, it's probably because of his homicidal tendencies, and equally with an intent to dispose evidences (as they see their faces). Also because of the way he disposes Buscemi, that character couldn't have possibly be driven by 'money' alone. Thus, his homicidal tendencies got a 'catalyst' in money, thus that line could be the disbelief of the dangerous crime being driven by money, but also because of the character's psyche..

However, Coen brothers often deceive with their lines, some of 'em are quite multi-layered. In many films, they easily deceive a serious situation into something which could seem satirical, or slapstick!

kannannn

13th November 2007, 08:34 PM

There was a Ebert-Scorsese special, discussing about their top 4 films from the 90s. Fargo featured in Ebert's list (Scorsese named some less popular films, and he named my favorite war film "Thin red line"), they discussed about this character, how he plays an important part in the narrative. The husband (brilliantly played by William H Macy) and the Japanese guy are quite similar with their nervousness, later when Margie discovers that the japanese guy cooked up a story, she immediately connects it to Macy, and goes back to investigate him, the rest follows..
That makes a lot of sense. So, it basically means Marige is naive and believes people in the first instant.

Well, the guy chases back three kids (and leaves his large footprint) to brutally kill 'em, it's probably because of his homicidal tendencies, and equally with an intent to dispose evidences (as they see their faces). Also because of the way he disposes Buscemi, that character couldn't have possibly be driven by 'money' alone. Thus, his homicidal tendencies got a 'catalyst' in money, thus that line could be the disbelief of the dangerous crime being driven by money, but also because of the character's psyche..
Also makes sense (especially the brutal nature of Buscemi's death). An interpretation I had was that Margie was after all a small town police officer where crime is so low that a homicide of this nature is perhaps the first and she is surprised at that.

However, Coen brothers often deceive with their lines, some of 'em are quite multi-layered. In many films, they easily deceive a serious situation into something which could seem satirical, or slapstick!
Trivias from the DVD special features interview with Coen Brothers and Frances McDormand..
1. Apparently Macy was supposed to say Orange Ciera, but he didn't like the way it sounded and replaced it with Tan Ciera.
2. Frances McDormand and John Carroll Lynch developed a background story for their characters. They were both in the police force and Lynch quite his job since the foce was small to have both and since she was better than him at the job. She then encourages him to pursue his passion - painting.
3. Coen Brothers are so alike in the way they think that when McDormand goes to each with her ideas, the answer she gets from them is always the same :D .

thilak4life

13th November 2007, 08:41 PM

Trivias from the DVD special features interview with Coen Brothers and Frances McDormand..
1. Apparently Macy was supposed to say Orange Ciera, but he didn't like the way it sounded and replaced it with Tan Ciera.
2. Frances McDormand and John Carroll Lynch developed a background story for their characters. They were both in the police force and Lynch quite his job since the foce was small to have both and since she was better than him at the job. She then encourages him to pursue his passion - painting.
3. Coen Brothers are so alike in the way they think that when McDormand goes to each with her ideas, the answer she gets from them is always the same

Wow, interesting. Never knew this. the first one is surprising, considering their knack for the accent, words, costumes, and the backdrop in their films..

thilak4life

13th November 2007, 08:59 PM

An interpretation I had was that Margie was after all a small town police officer where crime is so low that a homicide of this nature is perhaps the first and she is surprised at that.

Yes, and most thrillers of Coen's has often been driven by 'coincidental' events. The characters aren't smart in truest sense, and often act by instinct.

thilak4life

13th November 2007, 09:01 PM

"The man who wasn't there" is an interesting film to be placed and analyzed side by side with "Fargo"..

equanimus

14th November 2007, 03:15 AM

Nice discussion here, Thilak and Kannannn!

There was a Ebert-Scorsese special, discussing about their top 4 films from the 90s. Fargo featured in Ebert's list (Scorsese named some less popular films, and he named my favorite war film "Thin red line"), they discussed about this character, how he plays an important part in the narrative. The husband (brilliantly played by William H Macy) and the Japanese guy are quite similar with their nervousness, later when Margie discovers that the japanese guy cooked up a story, she immediately connects it to Macy, and goes back to investigate him, the rest follows..
That makes a lot of sense. So, it basically means Marige is naive and believes people in the first instant.

Thilak,
It's this conversation (http://ebedit.sv.publicus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20000226/COMMENTARY/41219001/1023) that you're referring to. I think both Ebert's and Rosenbaum's reviews of the film pointed out this scene in particular.

Kannannn,
That Margie picks a "connection" between her former classmate (and ex-boyfriend?) and Jerry Lundegaard is indeed suggested in the film. But, I think it'd be somewhat inappropriate to say that Margie is naive enough to believe people and what they say in the first instant. The first time she talks to Jerry, she notices how nervous he is, but doesn't understand why. Why would he lie to her? She sees no reason how he -- an executive sales manager in a firm owned by his father-in-law -- could be (and why he would be) involved in such a "malfeasance."
When she comes to know that her bumbling friend had lied to her about his marriage, career etc. before breaking down (and even then, cooking up a tragic story about how his wife died of leukemia), she doesn't get that either. Why would anyone create such a web of lies? (She keeps mulling over that as she is driving, when she's having a burger on the way.)
It is this "spiritual" alienation in both these men that strikes Margie. In a way, she actually connects to Jerry after she comes to know that she learnt no truth about her old boyfriend when she met him.

This is not to question her naivete (as we perceive it) per se, which is superbly portrayed in the film. Like what she says as the film draws to an end. She's being simplistic alright, but in simple terms, she's also being right. (It's played out like one of those "who's-being-naive-Kay?" moments, the way I see it.)

thilak4life

14th November 2007, 03:52 AM

Thanks Equanimus, I saw the video in Ebert-Roeper site!

Also, the yeah-yeah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF3z-j8o39I) barrage typifies the general air of simplicity in such a town! More than naivety per se, Kannannn is right about the small town where crime is so low, and people in general aren't aware much, or in other words, don't come across different kinds of people. Be it the alienated or the possessed! There is also the superb catch phrase which is much appropriate, the girls say 'the little guy is kinda like funny looking', which is a misappropriate (instinctive) assertion of the dangerous Buscemi, and nods McDormand, followed by yeah-yeahs! :lol: None of 'em possess better judgment!

thilak4life

14th November 2007, 03:59 AM

Then there is the undercurrent theme of fidelity, which is a trademark Coen here, as they are to varying extremes!

equanimus

14th November 2007, 11:53 AM

Thanks Equanimus, I saw the video in Ebert-Roeper site!

Also, the yeah-yeah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF3z-j8o39I) barrage typifies the general air of simplicity in such a town! More than naivety per se, Kannannn is right about the small town where crime is so low
Oh, most definitely. I couldn't agree more...

An interpretation I had was that Margie was after all a small town police officer where crime is so low that a homicide of this nature is perhaps the first and she is surprised at that.
The small town setting and the characters that inhabit them also serve as an acute contrast to the kind of police officers we usually see in Hollywood. The all-too-smart macho men who would take no more than a second to place the pieces of the puzzle together. But, Margie on the other hand is earthy, but also strikingly intelligent. Her intuitions are often right on the money. Which is why I think it's somewhat inappropriate to say that she tends to believe most people the first time.

thilak4life

14th November 2007, 01:00 PM

But, Margie on the other hand is earthy, but also strikingly intelligent. Her intuitions are often right on the money. Which is why I think it's somewhat inappropriate to say that she tends to believe most people the first time.

To add to it, pregnant. Why I refuse to buy that she's strikingly intelligent is because she doesn't make full use of her investigations, she could have pinned on Macy for all his claustrophobic tendencies. Moreover, Coens often have characters who aren't smart in the truest sense. Instead, they have shrewd characters. Why! Mcdormand's role in "A blood simple" also acts by her instincts, and doesn't get the whole plot. (The ending is pure class) And much like "A Blood simple", there is a husband plotting something against his wife, there again its infidelity, but here it's monetary on outside, but it's MAcy's lack of trust which is the catalyst. While there the Mcdormand's line of money-cant-be-the-catalyst is a give-in. As it's more the lack of trust on people that drives. "Infidelity" between characters is the catalyst. Not just Macy and his wife, but his father in law and Macy, Macy and the kidnappers, between the kidnappers (probably the best to buy, for it's uttered after she witnesses the brutal disposal of Buscemi's body.) In fact, Mcdormand trusts Macy, only to be proved wrong. Hence, I think she realizes this in the end, and thus the line...

equanimus

14th November 2007, 01:46 PM

Thilak,
I mean the same shrewdness you're talking about. She's not sophisticated at all, but has a keen perception. Her intuition more often than not helps her. This earthy shrewdness of hers is even shown to be in contrast with her associate Lou. ("I'm not sure I agree with you a hunnert percent on your police work there, Lou.")

Yes, it's the alienation of Macy (from his wife, from his son) that drives him to such extremes. Macy's demeanor betrays a lot of desperation even during McDormand's interview with him even the first time. She sees as much even then, but doesn't get it. My two cents.

kannannn

14th November 2007, 09:48 PM

It is this "spiritual" alienation in both these men that strikes Margie. In a way, she actually connects to Jerry after she comes to know that she learnt no truth about her old boyfriend when she met him.
Agree. Also, she doesn't suspect Macy during the second interview too. It is only when he bolts from the place that she suspects something is wrong.

Mcdormand's role in "A blood simple" also acts by her instincts, and doesn't get the whole plot. (The ending is pure class) And much like "A Blood simple", there is a husband plotting something against his wife, there again its infidelity, but here it's monetary on outside, but it's MAcy's lack of trust which is the catalyst.
I am not a big fan of Blood Simple, but I like the climax (pure Hitchcockian).

She's not sophisticated at all, but has a keen perception. Her intuition more often than not helps her. This earthy shrewdness of hers is even shown to be in contrast with her associate Lou. ("I'm not sure I agree with you a hunnert percent on your police work there, Lou.")
When she arrives at the scene of crime, she quickly works out the sequence of events and this establishes her character to be quite intelligent. And of course there is that line you have quoted. I suspect she is more at home in the small town than in a big city.

Yes, it's the alienation of Macy (from his wife, from his son) that drives him to such extremes.
I think Macy is inherently awkward with money. He is just inempt in whatever he does. And that's what drives his FiL to distrust him. Macy's desperation is beautifully portrayed in the scene where he takes out his anger on his windshield when his FiL cuts him out of his pet project.

thilak4life

15th November 2007, 04:05 PM

Overall, I think she's much better in collecting evidences, than judging people. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

BTW, "Raising Arizona" is an equaly interesting film, but hardly a people's favorite. It also has Coen's trope, and various thematic elements. But was a 'Enna kodumai sir idhu' in the first watch, gets better in subsequent views. Over the years, it's evident that Coens have matured as a filmmaker..

Nerd

28th November 2007, 11:30 PM

The Coens' NCFOM is on par with strangelove now (imdb) !! i can't believe that it has become a normal movie watcher's favorite. There are 100s of theories in imdb regarding the *ending* which is a big big victory for the Coens. On another note I have been trying to watch OBWAT but without much success. I could not get past the first 30 mins for some reason.. The movie doesn't evoke interest at all :oops:

A.ANAND

21st December 2007, 02:21 PM

MY FAV.DIRECTOR [ALAGENTRO GONZALIZ INNARUTU]
DIRECTOR OF AMORESS PEROSS,21GRAMS,BABEL.

thilak4life

11th January 2008, 09:27 PM

I'm glad for one of my favorite actors of all time, Daniel day lewis, for his There will be blood (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469494/). Once again, he keeps proving his worth. Also, I'm a fan of P.T.Anderson's Magnolia.

crajkumar_be

12th January 2008, 10:37 AM

Also, I'm a fan of P.T.Anderson's Magnolia.
What do you think about
(a) Your *favorite* Tom Cruise in the film :)
(b) Climaaks

thilak4life

12th January 2008, 04:39 PM

Also, I'm a fan of P.T.Anderson's Magnolia.
What do you think about
(a) Your *favorite* Tom Cruise in the film :)
(b) Climaaks

a) It's his best performance. In general, I'm not a fan of his acting, which exudes his exuberance than the character's.

b) The Exodus reference was news to me. Somehow, I couldn't get myself to the evangelical fantasies that were proposed. When I saw the film, I had a different take. When the subtexts are about the "alienating" of the characters who are just ostensibly interconnected. Anderson employs the incongruous event, which is alienating to the intuition. The juxtaposition of loosely and closely-linked characters are "connected" by the frog-rain with its unpredictability. The usage of the event is more stimulating than a truly cataclysmic event, ala Shortcuts, where Altman doesn't believe in proving a gripping denouement (like in Magnolia), but stays true to the theme of unifying by the event. As in Shortcuts, we are led to the theme of fate, infidelity, and the accidental, coincidental and consequent encounters within the characters in Magnolia.

Sid_316

12th January 2008, 05:10 PM

Christopher nolan , Stanley Kubrick,Sergio leone, Coppola. :D Hi there thilak its me sid! u remember :)

thilak4life

12th January 2008, 05:13 PM

Christopher nolan , Stanley Kubrick,Sergio leone, Coppola. :D Hi there thilak its me sid! u remember :)

Of course, I remember. :D Welcome to the hub! :boo:

Nerd

2nd February 2008, 08:36 AM

crajkumar_be

2nd February 2008, 12:19 PM

http://specials.rediff.com/movies/2008/feb/01oslide1.htm
An excellent article from rediff :shock:

I have not seen Barton Fink. Has anybody seen it?? And its been ages since I watched Miller's crossings.. F and TBL are certainly from the Coens' top shelf 8-)
Well, I wouldn't say its one of Coen's best. Wasnt overwhelmed when i watched it...

thilak4life

2nd February 2008, 12:53 PM

Nerd

21st April 2008, 07:02 AM

I just finished watching Krzysztof's Three colors trilogy, back-to-back-to-back and I am completely blown away. I think his films or on par with Kubrick/Kurosawa when it comes to visual elegance (have not seen any of Bergman/Tarkovsky). Blue is my favorite right now. White was the simplest, blue was the most beautiful and Red was the best. I have no words to describe the cinematography and the soundtrack :bow: :bow: :bow: Had to read IMDB/Wiki to fathom a few things :oops: May be my next viewing would be more enjoyable.

kannannn

21st April 2008, 01:33 PM

Nerd, did you notice that all three movies have one scene in common: that of an old woman struggling to drop a bottle in a recycling bin? In fact, 'The double life of Veronique' too has a similar scene. Did you understand the significance of it?

Nerd

21st April 2008, 05:31 PM

Oh yes. Those scenes were easy to understand when compared with Blue's climax, for an example :oops:

Julie completely ignores her - Liberty from the world. Karol grins at her sarcastically - Equality, someone in the world is as pathetic as he is. Valentine helps her - Brotherhood

kannannn

21st April 2008, 08:51 PM

:thumbsup: I couldn't understand it the first time I saw. Adding to the confusion was the placement of the same scene in DLoV, which I should probably watch again from a different perspective. As you said, the best was Red. But Blue has a very different feel - the music, the acting (Binochett rejected Jurassic Park to do this one) and the cinematography are all superlative. The best part for me is the reference to characters from other parts of the trilogy in each movie. Krzysztof is perhaps the best when it comes to bringing human emotions and relationships on screen :notworthy: .

thilak4life

22nd April 2008, 10:41 AM

Krzysztof is perhaps the best when it comes to bringing human emotions and relationships on screen

:yes:

(but not without evangelical manoeuvers sadly...)

kannannn

19th August 2008, 11:43 PM

Pretenders, move aside! The Master is back!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Aarambame Asaththal!!

Quentin Tarantino angers Germans with film about slaying Nazis
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2562334/Quentin-Tarantino-angers-Germans-with-film-about-slaying-Nazis.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/aug/15/quentintarantino.secondworldwar

'Inglorious Bastards' - shooting to start in October-November, to hit Cannes 2009 (hopefully)

Confirmed cast: Brad Pitt and Mike Myers.

(Perhaps this deserves a seperate thread :? )

ajithfederer

20th August 2008, 12:32 AM

Pona vaarame orkutla paathein post panna marandhutein. What about Di caprio ??. They were speculating that Dicaprio may also be iin the cast :huh:

Kannannn, Probably you may know this but check this out http://landofmovies.blogspot.com/2008/08/quentin-taranatinos-profile.html

Pretenders, move aside! The Master is back!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Aarambame Asaththal!!

Quentin Tarantino angers Germans with film about slaying Nazis
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2562334/Quentin-Tarantino-angers-Germans-with-film-about-slaying-Nazis.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/aug/15/quentintarantino.secondworldwar

'Inglorious Bastards' - shooting to start in October-November, to hit Cannes 2009 (hopefully)

Confirmed cast: Brad Pitt and Mike Myers.

(Perhaps this deserves a seperate thread :? )

Nerd

20th August 2008, 12:38 AM

Any links for the purportedly leaked script? I know that Tarantino finishes the complete screenplay before going for the shoot. Have read the pulp fiction script completely and was truly overwhelmed. :)

kannannn

20th August 2008, 01:10 AM

Feddy, I have seen that site :D. Di Caprio is out now. Simon Pegg was also rumored but today's news says he is not a part (As I read somewhere, there are more guesses about IB than about the next coming of Christ :lol:). The only confirmed cast is Pitt, Myers and Eli Roth.

Would be interesting to see how Roth's character is written.

Nerd, Most movie scripts are available online I guess. But none of the to be released, especially from such a huge project. The news reports are based on leaked parts of the script. Last month Tarantino had distributed the script to the major studios. Apparently Universal will finance the project, but it will still be produced by Wienstein Brothers, who also produced Grindhouse (both were part of Miramax, whom Tarantino said he will exclusively produce movies for before.)

kannannn

20th August 2008, 03:03 AM

I may be wrong..
Nerd, here: http://www.imagenetz.de/fc95247f7/inglorious_bastards_script.pdf.html

This is all so confusing :confused2:

ajithfederer

20th August 2008, 07:14 PM

Kannannn,

Please take the honors of opening a thread for Quentin Tarantino!!!

:)

kannannn

20th August 2008, 10:59 PM

Come, all ye faithful..
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=11931

thilak4life

23rd August 2008, 12:49 AM

I recently downloaded Kubrick's Napoleon script (with Jack nicholson as the French general), his interview, 'making of the shining' (highly recommended, superbly narrated, and must-watch for kubrick fans, though it's just too short for comfort), and also couple of his first few not-so-short-yet-rare films (bad print though). The films are hard on the eyes. And oh, also got some of his published photos in the press, when he started out as a photographer. Also contains Shining OST, it's not a favorite, but WCM by polish composer (with typical polish first name 'krzysztof') is worth a listen.

http://www.mininova.org/tor/811104

kannannn

7th February 2009, 05:24 PM

Didn't know where else to post this..

Further interpretations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/feb/06/andrei-tarkovsky-stalker-russia-gulags-chernobyl) of the Stalker. Quite an interesting read I should say, though the article rather wanders about without sufficient cohesion.

..at a certain point the audacious claim is made that the reason we were put on earth was to create works of art. By the same token, it's not enough to say that Stalker is a great film - it is the reason cinema was invented:D

thilak4life

7th February 2009, 07:53 PM

Kannannn,

Neenga Ireland-la irukeengala? Anyway which is the best UK portal for film criticism? Guardian or Telegraph or Daily mail or Times online or what have you?

kannannn

8th February 2009, 02:59 AM

Thilak, I live at a godforsaken town called Rugby near Birmingham, UK. As for UK portals, Guardian is my preference. Daily Telegraph and Times are both Tabloidish and I tend to avoid them. Peter Bradshaw of the Guardian does good reviews and brings to notice most of the new foreign language releases. Their film blog at http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog also carries interesting articles from time to time and the Friday 'Music and Film' feature is a must read (new indie movies and music, interviews and recommendations).

thilak4life

8th February 2009, 05:21 PM

Thanks Kannannn. I wanted a portal for unknown Indie films made in UK. That should help. :D

thilak4life

13th February 2009, 12:20 AM

Kannannn,

Parthacha? (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/77-film-proves-surprise-hit-at-berlinale-1607244.html) Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/feb/10/berlin-film-festival-terrorism-london-river)too. :D

kannannn

13th February 2009, 01:39 AM

Not yet Thilak. It hasn't released here from what I gather :(. Paartha sollunga..

ajithfederer

23rd August 2009, 10:06 PM

To Nolan fans (including myself)

Saw the trailor of his next flick Inception starring Dicaprio. Looked very sick. :)

littlemaster1982

23rd August 2009, 10:11 PM

:shock: Eppa release?

ajithfederer

23rd August 2009, 10:14 PM

Innum naal irukku

summer 2010

littlemaster1982

23rd August 2009, 10:17 PM

Oh!! Thanks AF :)

crajkumar_be

24th August 2009, 12:07 AM

Looked very sick. :)
Did you mean slick?!

ajithfederer

24th August 2009, 12:10 AM

No. I meant sick (In the good sense).

crajkumar_be

24th August 2009, 12:15 AM

Oh mannikkavum!
Interesting...

ajithfederer

24th August 2009, 09:25 PM

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810099246/video/15201197

Trailor/Inception/Nolan/Di caprio

P_R

24th August 2009, 10:06 PM

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810099246/video/15201197

Trailor/Inception/Nolan/Di caprio

To quote the words of the great supervisor supramani

hayyoo....aarambamE asathalA irukkE dA

littlemaster1982

24th August 2009, 10:39 PM

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810099246/video/15201197

Trailor/Inception/Nolan/Di caprio

HD Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5VDKVqvo8M). Trailer dhool 8-)

ajithfederer

16th December 2009, 10:20 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0PI8Z3azq5E/Syh33OL_giI/AAAAAAAAAUs/bFT1UNA29zE/s1600-h/inceptionposter.jpg

Upload this one please.

http://mymassivemovieblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/sneaky-peeky-inception-2010.html

Raikkonen

12th January 2010, 07:21 AM

Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire are off from spiderman 4. :cry:

Now Sony has planned to reboot the series with a new director.

now Sam.. release Ash to paramount and give us Jason vs Freddy vs Ash.. Pls..

groucho070

12th January 2010, 09:00 AM

Athukkulla reboot-ah? Yabbaaa...the third one sucked anyway.

kid-glove

10th February 2010, 12:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAyo1wE4Vo&feature=player_embedded

Lynch :smokesmirk: meets Lucas :lol:

kid-glove

10th February 2010, 12:52 PM

Video made from a real interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDB8Q15iUIE

P_R

1st November 2010, 02:46 AM

kid-glove

1st November 2010, 02:58 AM

That excerpt, and the complete (detailed) script would seem a whole lot different under Shyam Benegal's or Mani Ratnam's direction.

P_R

1st November 2010, 03:10 AM

That excerpt, and the complete (detailed) script would seem a whole lot different under Shyam Benegal's or Mani Ratnam's direction.
With the same script...i.e written in that level of detail
I don't see what difference they'd make.

Thought experiment: consider a director contractually obliged to stick to that level of detail (down to editing/pacing) as the script commands. Then would it really make a difference ?

One thing I can see is par level performance from actors (Barathiraja :lol:). Apart from that, I see limited influence a director can wield.

It is not surprising that directors co-write their films. The way I see it, it is inevitable. They have to.

P_R

1st November 2010, 03:24 AM

Apparently Orson Welles (who was from the stage) used to give lighting directions on the first day of shooting Citizen Kane. Then he was told that in cinema, the DoP made those calls. So he politely (atypically) accepted that.
They make a big deal of how he shared the credits page with the DoP.

If asked I'd say: adhu Mankewicz in perundhanmai.

Franz Kafka ezhudhi, adhE Welles direct paNNa 'The Trial' paathuttu vaanga, appuRam theriyin yaar Citizen Kane thillAlangadinnu.

Raasukutti
stone crunch at dinner table
Manorama: ayyo thuppu thuppu
Bagyaraj: spits out the food
Kalyankumar: yen di avanai thuppa sonnE?
Bagyaraj: puLLa kallu kadichadhu kEkkaleengaLA?
KK: nee yEn dA thuppunE?
KB: aathA thuppa sollichu thuppunEn
KK: kallu kadichadhu naanu, neenga thuppikkureengaLaakkum

kid-glove

1st November 2010, 03:31 AM

P_R,
Almost all prolific directors with a consistent signature rewrite/enhance the already written script. Not just visualize it mentally. The worst case is to storyboard it.

Yes, as a thought experiment, Kamal's "Hey! Ram" wouldn't be the same under Benegal/Nihalani/Mani 's (hypothetically assuming they're directing the same script), if you consider their respective style.

Benegal's contemporary adaptation of Mahabharath in Kalyug vis-a-vis Mani's Thalapathi wouldn't be apt. But knowing their respective styles, I see a different "Kalyug" in Mani's vision, and an entirely different film in "Thalapathi".

Well, Kuruthipunal seems a whole lot different from Droh Kaal (I love both films). Ditto UPO v/s A Wednesday.

As Bresson puts it in his Notes (http://www.scribd.com/doc/29524082/Notes-on-Cinematography-Bresson) p.63,
"Many people are needed in order to make a film, but only one who makes, unmakes, remakes his images and sounds, returning at every second to the initial impression or sensation which brought these to birth and is incomprehensible to the other people."

kid-glove

1st November 2010, 03:42 AM

P_R

1st November 2010, 03:43 AM

P_R,
Almost all prolific directors with a consistent signature rewrite/enhance the already written script. Not just visualize it mentally. The worst case is to storyboard it.
Okay. I see that. In fact that is inevitable.

If the rewriting is even about stretching the pauses, who looks at whom, who gets to look at what and pacing - that fundamentally changes the film, so it easy to understand why the 'same' script outline can change with directors.

Yes, as a thought experiment, Kamal's "Hey! Ram" wouldn't be the same under Benegal/Nihalani/Mani 's (hypothetically assuming they're directing the same script), if you consider their respective 'style'.

Bresson to fe read in office tomorrow :P

kid-glove

1st November 2010, 04:00 AM

I'm of course oversimplifying it when I use 'style'. :)

P_R

1st November 2010, 04:30 AM

P_R,
I love "The Trial". Actually, it not only made me appreciate Welles as a maverick filmmaker, but also reassess how his "direction" elevates "Citizen Kane" to the classic it is.
This is exactly the kind of example I am looking for.

What exactly is it that you appreciated about Kane that seemed defnly like Welles' input (as opposed to Mankewicz's) that you inferred after trial.

I've not read the novel but after having watched the movie I could see that I'd've enjoyed the novel. I didn't enjoy the movie - it was a drag.

It is not as if there were not good scenes in it:

The whole assembly line type office ending the day at a stroke
His first entry into the courtroom
His search through the labyrinth to the architect (?) who lives in that wierd nook

But these were few and far between and there was little to sustain my interest in the film. I am sure the novel would have had much much more glue.

So much so that (even without reading the novel) I felt that the scenes that had an effect on me where not the most important ones in the novel but only those which could be made to create the maximum impact on film.

The absurdity of a man in search of his crime - wears out much early in the film. Much easier than (one assumes) Kafka would have wanted it (that is if we are to give a damn what Kafka wanted in the first place !)

Well there are certain things film can do and certain things it can't (atleast to me!).

Coming back, I struggle what it is abt Kane that seemed exclusively and heavily Welles' contribution.

Apparentlty he took up Touch of Evil with the intention of elevating a dud of a script. It wasn't that great for me. I know you have nice things to say about that film (I remember the screenshot of the flashlight you asked in a kweezz once). That was such a throwaway moment and (for me) becomes memorable only when embedded in a 'good' script. Else it hardly sticks and worse, feels gimmicky.

Whenever I get the feeling that the script is weak I get quite uncharitable about the rest of the film. Balance is for trapeze artists.

Notwithstanding the fact that you and I are most likely looking for completely different things in a film, I am interesting in this precise example of your reassessment of Kane after watching Trial.

kid-glove

1st November 2010, 08:01 PM

[tscii:c57fef4fbf]
Coming back, I struggle what it is abt Kane that seemed exclusively and heavily Welles' contribution.
To turn this on its head, I struggle to see Mankiewicz’s overwhelming authorial stamp in CK based on the 4-5 films I have seen of his. What Welles does to this film could be compared and contrasted to "directors" of other Mankiewicz's scripts. I could sense the narrative devices passing through Welles's filter at many places. And how the melodrama of other Mankiewicz's scripts isn't carried over by Welles both as director and performer. Overwhelmingly so, that it's hard not to call it a "Welles film".

Apparentlty he took up Touch of Evil with the intention of elevating a dud of a script. It wasn't that great for me. I know you have nice things to say about that film (I remember the screenshot of the flashlight you asked in a kweezz once). That was such a throwaway moment and (for me) becomes memorable only when embedded in a 'good' script. Else it hardly sticks and worse, feels gimmicky.

The final draft wasn't dud at all. But I have read effusive praise for the "rewritten" script. I read this in interviews given by Heston.

What exactly is it that you appreciated about Kane that seemed defnly like Welles' input (as opposed to Mankewicz's) that you inferred after trial.

Notwithstanding the fact that you and I are most likely looking for completely different things in a film, I am interesting in this precise example of your reassessment of Kane after watching Trial.
Oh, not for specific "parallels".
But in general, the tonal and formal treatment he gave to one of the most unfilmable books. Adaptations aren't easy, especially not of Kafka! Welles himself considers it to be his best film. Not since Griffith's silent era generation incl. the German expressionist films, Dreyer and Eisenstein, I have encountered a post-war post-Silent filmmaker with visual sense so strong that you could even mute the sound/dialogues and still watch the film. You try articulating the sequences that you like, and yet, they don't come half as close to what's on the frame.[/tscii:c57fef4fbf]

P_R

2nd November 2010, 12:01 PM

I could sense the narrative devices passing through Welles's filter at many places. And how the melodrama of other Mankiewicz's scripts isn't carried over by Welles both as director and performer. Overwhelmingly so, that it's hard not to call it a "Welles film".
Hmm ok.
I will have to see other Makewicz films to see what you are saying.
I was trying to get by with a Kane-Trial comparison :-)

You try articulating the sequences that you like, and yet, they don't come half as close to what's on the frame.
Yes very true.

I know if not a vehicle such as this film such sequences would not have been made available. But in the end I only have an overarching sense of disappointment with such films. And curiously, rather that the sequences here and there which I enjoyed actually being arguments in favor of the film, they become the part of the reason why I feel dismissive. i.e. as if something appealing had been smuggled into an otherwise drab story. Or atleast a story whose twists and turns stop being engrossing after a point.

'Touch of Evil' was very naive. The framing, law twisting, arrogant dismissal, 'lay off candy' bars old louu - all seemed B grade writing.
The thing is, after Kane I was expecting something like that and was mighty disappointed with the superficiality of the characters.
I guess the spooky motel would have worked in the 40s/50s. Again, I wasn't going to give it a time handicap, I didn't need to for Kane.

So with all this, the long opening tracking shot, which I later understand was waeld famous at that time, Heston racing through the streets in the open car and a few such impressive filmmaking aspects which impressed me when watching - failed to prop up the film for me.

kid-glove

2nd November 2010, 03:23 PM

Better "B grade writing" than "B grade filming". To be honest, apart from the efficiency of colloquial usage, "B grade" doesn't make much sense to me. They called Hitchcock's script sense "B grade". And they keep calling Gounder's comedy "B grade". It doesn't matter to me, to tell you the truth.

kid-glove

2nd November 2010, 03:25 PM

I don't read "Touch of Evil" like a book, I watch.

P_R

2nd November 2010, 04:17 PM

Okay B-Grade is not the word. Suggest another. What I mean is, if someone expects Kane range, he is going to be bummed. (I've not seeing any other Welles film.)

I don't read "Touch of Evil" like a book, I watch. :-)

I am only trying to understanding a film can get away with 'weak writing'.

In terms of characetrization and staging of sequences : filmwriting is even more demanding, isn't it? You can get away with a whole lot of slack in writing type on paper. In film it stands up there as a three dimensional entity which you don't for a moment what the viewer to suspect the reality of.

Of course bringing together the performances and holding the pace is pretty central. Without it, you wake up in a trice. And the director's role is pivotal in that. But one அப்பழுக்கில்லாதவரா is enough to blow the house of cards away.

Regarding Hitchcock, enakku avarai personalA theriyAdhu (have watched only 5-6 films) and the film I liked best probably isn't his most typical. It is a 40s film starring Joseph Cotton called 'Shadow of Doubt'. The 'thrill' is because the characters are real, you see the relationships, the emotional situations, the tension is built up wonderfully. From my small sample I'd say such writing wasn't there in the other films. That is something that he shorts on and perhaps that's what people mean by his script sense.

tamizharasan

2nd November 2010, 07:36 PM

where is feeyar - the man who feels writing is almost the film.......how he would differentiate between writing and direction :)
allakkaigaLOda rules ennadA..vaazhga ozhiga. aththOda niruthinga da.

replace that with action/cut and you have my PoV :-)

btw this is largely a definitional tussle.

I am talking about a script which is written in fair level of detail.

We see from over Saket's shoulder, gun SA's head
Cut to...
SA seeing Saket's thread
smiles
SA: abivAdhayE vishwaamitraaha aagamarshaNa kaushika..

Saket still has gun pointed at him
View moves away from shoulder to show them in profile.
By the time he is done, view shifts to SA's shoulder

If it is not this detailed...what the deuce is screenwriting?

It all depends on the depth of the screenplay. Yes once I read the scripts of Mahanadhi as written by Kamal. After reading that script anyone in the world will agree that SB was just take-catch. Kamal even described camera's location and camera's movement also during the shot. In that kind of screenplay what kind of Role, a director can play even if he wants to.?

jaiganes

2nd November 2010, 07:58 PM

where is feeyar - the man who feels writing is almost the film.......how he would differentiate between writing and direction :)
allakkaigaLOda rules ennadA..vaazhga ozhiga. aththOda niruthinga da.

replace that with action/cut and you have my PoV :-)

btw this is largely a definitional tussle.

I am talking about a script which is written in fair level of detail.

We see from over Saket's shoulder, gun SA's head
Cut to...
SA seeing Saket's thread
smiles
SA: abivAdhayE vishwaamitraaha aagamarshaNa kaushika..

Saket still has gun pointed at him
View moves away from shoulder to show them in profile.
By the time he is done, view shifts to SA's shoulder

If it is not this detailed...what the deuce is screenwriting?
I think this level of detail is too much if one is simply screenwriting. It gives too much cue about camera movements. It is acceptable here because it is kamal who is ultimately the director. I wonder if kamal would accept the same coming from a script writer for a film he is directing. For changes in the view while action is taking place, I feel the old fashioned story boarding is the best as it conveys dropping all the vocabulary jugglery about how camera should move and all that.

P_R

2nd November 2010, 08:05 PM

btw before it gets out of hand, Kamal did not write it. I was just giving that as an example of how the scene would have been written.

tamizharasan

2nd November 2010, 08:09 PM

btw before it gets out of hand, Kamal did not write it. I was just giving that as an example of how the scene would have been written.

I understand. But I quoted the example to support the fact that screenplay writer can not be differentiated from director, if screenplay is deep enough.

app_engine

2nd November 2010, 09:35 PM

I think there's some confusion, making director = manager.

No, the expectation is director = leader.

(Most of us here are probably aware of the manager v/s leader thingy & the illustration of a team cutting trees etc. Leader decides in which forest they'll cut trees while the manager works on efficient cutters / tools / tricks / training etc)

Director needn't be a script writer. He should have the insight to choose & OK the right script among 100's of them.

kid-glove

2nd November 2010, 11:13 PM

F_R,

Actually, It comes as no coincidence to me that you like "Shadow of a doubt". Here's an excerpt from Hitchcock/Truffaut conversation:

F.T: I take it that of all the pictures you've made, Shadow of a doubt is the one you prefer. And yet it gives a rather distorted idea of the Hitchcock touch. I feel that the film which provides the most accurate image of the ensemble of your work, as well as of your style, is Notorious.

A.H: I wouldn't say that Shadow of a Doubt is my favorite picture; if I've given that impression, it's probably because I feel that here is something that our friends, the plausibles and logicians, cannot complain about.

F.T: What about the psychologists?

A.H: That's right, the psychologists as well! In a sense, it reveals a weakness. On the one hand I claim to dismiss the plausible and so the other I'm worried about them. After all, I'm only human! But that impression is due to my very pleasant memories of working on it with Thornton Wilder. In England, I'd always had the collaboration of top stars and the finest writers, but in America things were quite different. I was turned down by many stars and by many writers who looked down their noses at the genre I work in. That's why it was so gratifying for me to find out that one of America's most eminent playwrights was willing to work with me and indeed, that he took the whole thing quite seriously.

F.T: Did you select Thornton Wilder or did someone suggest him to you?

A.H: I wanted him. Let's go back a little into the history of the picture. A woman called Margaret MacDonell, who was head of Selznick's story department, had a husband who was a novelist. One day she told me her husband had an idea for a story but he hadn't written it down yet. So we went to lunch at the brown derby and they told me the story, which we elaborated together as we were eating. Then I told him to go home and type it up.
In this way we got the skeleton of the story into a nine-page draft that was sent to Thornton Wilder. He came right here, to this studio we are now in, to work on it. WE worked together in the morning and he would work on his own in the afternoon, writing by hand in a school note-book. He never worked consecutively, but jumped about from one scene to another according to his fancy. I might add that the reason I wanted Wilder is that he had written a wonderful play called Our Town.

F.T: I saw Sam Wood's screen version of that play.

A.H: When the script was finished, Wilder enlisted in the Psychological Warfare Department of the U.S Army. But I felt there was still something lacking in our screenplay, and I wanted someone who could inject some comedy highlights that would counterpoint the drama. Thornton Wilder had recommended an M-G-M writer, Robert Audrey, but he struck as more inclined towards serious drama, so Sally Benson was brought in. *

---------

*- The story of Shadow of a doubt centers on Charlie Oakley (Joseph Cotten), opening with his arrival in Santa Rosa for a visit with his family. The real purpose of his visit is to elude two investigators who are on his trail. The family, a doting older sister, her husband, and a young, adoring niece (Teresa Wright) who has been named after her uncle, welcomes him with open arms. BNut gradually the girl begins to suspect taht her beloved uncle may be the mystery man wanted by the police for the killing of several widows.
Her suspicions are shared by a young detective (MacDonald Carey *k-g note: Hitchcock felt it was a case of miscasting. Truffaut brings up the "weak detectives" in his career and cites that the one in Shadow.. is again incompetent it terms of stature when put against Uncle Charlie. Hitchcock reveals that the real problem were to attract important actors to roles that were considered weak at the time.*) who enters the household by pretending to be a fact finder for a national poll. Meanwhile in the East, another suspect is accidentally killed just as at he police are about to arrest him, and the inquiry is officially closed.

-------------

Before the writing, Wilder and I went to the great pains to be realistic about the town, the people and the decor. We chose a town and we went there to search for the right house. WE found one, but Wilder felt that it was too big for a bank clerk. Upon investigation, it turned out that the man who lived there was in the same financial bracket as our character, so Wilder agreed to use it. But when we came back, two weeks prior to the shooting, the owner was so pleased that his house was going to be in a picture that he had had it completely repainted. So we had to go in and get his permission to paint it dirty again. And when we were through, naturally, we had it done all over again with birght, new colors.

F.T: The acknowledgment to Thornton Wilder in the main credits of Shadow of a Doubt is rather unusual.

A.H: It was an emotional gesture. I was touched by his qualities.

F.T: In that case, why didn't you work with him on other screenplays?

A.H: Because he was off to war and I didn't see him for several years after that.

F.T: I was wondering where you got the idea of illustrating the tune of "The Merry Widow" with dancing couples. It's an image that appearers several times (*K-g note: Intolerable after a point, if I may add!*)

A.H: I even used it as a background for the credits.

F.T: Was it a stock shot?

A.H: No, I made it up especially for the picture. I can't remember now whether Uncle Charlie is the one who first had the idea of whistling a few bars of "The Merry Widow" or whether it was the girl.

F.T: At first you showed the dancing couples and the air is played by an orchestra. Then the mother hums the opening bars and everyone at the table is trying to remember the title of the song. Joseph Cotten, who's a little disturbed, says that it's the "Blue Danube," and his niece then says, "That's right...Oh no, it's The Merry.." Whereupon Cotten spills his glass to create a diversion.

A.H: Yes, because it's too close to the truth. It's also another indication of the telepathy between Uncle Charlie and his niece.

F.T: Psycho is the only other picture in which your central figure is a villain; the character in Shadow of a doubt even has the public's sympathy, probably because you never actually show him in the act of killing the widows.

A.H: That may be one reason, but aside from that, he's a killer with an idea; he's one of those murderers who feel that they have a mission to destroy. It's quite possible that those widows deserved what they got, but it certainly wasn't his job to do it. There's a moral judgment in this film. He's destroyed at the end, isn't he? The niece accidentally kills her uncle. What it boils down to is that villains are not all black and heroes are not all white; there are grays everywhere. Uncle Charlie loved his niece, but not as much as she loved him. And yet she has to destroy him. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde. "You destroy the thing you love".

F.t: I'm puzzled by one detail of the picture. In the first scene at the station, when the train carrying Charlie is coming in, there's a heavy cloud of black smoke coming out of the engine's smokestack and as the train comes close, it darkens the whole station. I have the feeling that this was done deliberately because when the train is leaving the station, at end of the film, there's simply a small puff of light smoke.

A.H: That's right, I asked for lots of black smoke for the first scene. It's one of those ideas for which you go to a lot of trouble, although it's seldom noticed. But here, we were lucky, the position of the sun created a beautiful shadow over the whole station.

F.T: The black smoke implies that the devil has arrived

A.H: There's a similar detail in "The birds" when Jessica Tandy, in a state of shock after having discovered the farmer's body, takes off in her car. To sustain that emotion, I had them put smoke in the truck's exhaust and we also made the road dusty. It also served to establish a contrast with the peaceful mood of her arrival at the farm. For that scene we had the road slightly dampened and there was no smoke coming out of the truck.

F.T: With the exception of the detective, the casting is excellent, and I imagine you were pleased with the performances.Wright's portrait of a young American girl was outstanding, she had a lovely face, nice shape and her way of walking was particularly graceful

A.H: She(Wright) was under contract to Goldwyn and we got her on loan. All the irony of the situation stemmed from her deep love for her uncle!

F.T: In the final scene the girl and her detective sweetheart are standing in front of the church. From the background we hear the minister's tribute to Uncle Charlie, describing him as an exceptional person. Meanwhile, the girl and the detective are planning their future together and she makes a rather ambiguous comment, something to the effect that they are the only ones to know the truth.

A.H: I don't remember in verbatim. But the suggestion was that girl would be in love with her Uncle for the rest of her life.

P_R

3rd November 2010, 12:09 PM

TA, probably the script you saw was 'after the fact'. It is difficult to conceive such perfection when writing it. Nor would it be advisable to constrain oneself that much.

But I'd still like to think of a screenwriter as someone who has a visual sense (i.e. apart from the story, conversations etc.). After who sees whom, what pace someone is talking etc. have a huge impact on what is being written, isn't it? Anyway this is overagonizing on my part.

My idea was not to diminish the role of a director. Only to say that if one starts with an ordinary piece of writing, it is going to be very difficult to enhance it much - this is being oversold. Or atleast those aspects of it do not independently suffice to make a film with weak writing appeal to me. However it is pretty crucial and dependent largely on a director to not botch up a well written script.

P_R

3rd November 2010, 12:12 PM

SPOILERS

Excellent intree. Thanks kid_glove.

[]here is something that our friends, the plausibles and logicians, cannot complain about. [] :lol: remba baadhikkappattirukkAr

On the one hand I claim to dismiss the plausible and so the other I'm worried about them. Hmm...why does he claim to 'dismiss the plausible' ? Something in the earlier part of the interview?

F.T: The acknowledgment to Thornton Wilder in the main credits of Shadow of a Doubt is rather unusual. What was it, I don't recall? Do you?

F.T: I was wondering where you got the idea of illustrating the tune of "The Merry Widow" with dancing couples. It's an image that appearers several times (*K-g note: Intolerable after a point, if I may add!*) :lol:
oru theme meesic, image establish aaga vENdaamA.

I thought the 'weak detective' came out well. More 'real' than the know-it-all confident cool character types who usually play detectives.

And the way it is posed you are siding Cotten. That was made easier because the detective seemed like an wet-behind-the ears kid. So you don't respect his opinion. He seems like a pesky kid to you.

You don't want Cotten exposed. That's because earlier in the movie you don't know who he is. But even as the movie progresses and the viewers' doubt incrases, you are still ambivalent about what you want to happen !! That was done very well.

Finally does it actually seem as comeuppance to us that he died but is remembered well? She didn't even mean to kill him. The only time we 'see' Cotten's evil shade is the tussle in the train that ends unfortunately for him.

But its like she (and we) want to ignore it.

kid-glove

3rd November 2010, 12:55 PM

why does he claim to 'dismiss the plausible' ? Something in the earlier part of the interview?
Yes. I remember Equa posting few quotations available in net. Will try to post the full conversation. It's quintessential Hitchcock.

F.T: The acknowledgment to Thornton Wilder in the main credits of Shadow of a Doubt is rather unusual. What was it, I don't recall? Do you?
I don't either. Perhaps couple of lines at end of main credits.

I thought the 'weak detective' came out well. More 'real' than the know-it-all confident cool character types who usually play detectives.
A little more competence would have made it more "plausible". :P Seriously though, Hitchcock could have made the scenes involving the detective little less mundane and it would have kept the ending in suspense. Hitchcock also acknowledges the weak detective-type in Saboteur.

She didn't even mean to kill him. The only time we 'see' Cotten's evil shade is the tussle in the train that ends unfortunately for him.
Actually she does. Call it 'momentary impulse' by the way of "accident". I recollect the image of young Charlie in Uncle's clutches looking down to see changing tracks, and, with the inertia of the train's turn, moves the other side while pushing him outside. Need to watch the scene again. But the ambiguity's being underlined by the way Hitchcock renders the 'tussle' in formal terms. All the while it was inevitable, as Hitch puts it, "And yet she has to destroy him. ".

kid-glove

9th November 2010, 01:29 AM

While we are on Welles, Hitchcock and "Shadow of a doubt", here's an excerpt from "This is Orson Welles",

Peter Bogdanovich: What do you make of Hitchcock? (A short silence.) You once said he was the first director to make you want to direct movies.
Welles: That was when he made those English pictures like The Man Who Knew Too Much and The Lady Vanishes and The 39 Steps - especially 39 Steps.
PB: That's his best English film.
Welles: The American movie I liked most was the one Thornton Wilder wrote. Jo (Cotten) was in it...
PB: Shadow of a Doubt - it's his favorite too (*KG note: which remains the widely held misassumption as Hitch clarifies. Hitch actually called it the most pleasurable experience.*)
Welles: Thornton's natural warmth was a big help. (*KG note: recognized by Hitch as well*) There's a certain icy calculation in a lot of Hitch's work that puts me off. He says he doesn't like actors, and sometimes it looks as though he doesn't like people.

-----------------
Hitchcock quiz on Saturday 13th 7 PM IST. To be conducted by me, here:
http://twitter.com/kweezzz

P_R

9th November 2010, 01:57 PM

Like in case of Welles-Mankiewicz (http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=2283334#2283334). Hub's flowchart goes like, it's good, it's Sujatha, if it's bad, it's Sangar.

All I said was:

I watched Kane. Liked it. An all time fav. film. Compelled to read a lot into it, but checked myself after seeing other films of the maker.
I watched The Trial. Disliked it.
I watched Touch of Evil. Disliked it.
Demoted Welles.

Moreover I saw nothing common between Kane and Trial-ToE.
So I speculated that perhaps what I liked in Kane did not come from Welles. Perhaps Mankewicz.
Whether I should promote Mankewicz will depend on his non-Welles films which I am yet to watch.

What I wanted to understand was specific directorial touches in Trial, ToE which you felt owed to Welles.

I found the basic material (story!) in Trial and ToE too weak to make the film engaging for me. Nothing in the directorial efforts that would overcome this weakness.

To quote an example: 'Tresspassers will be prosecuted' sign in passing in Kane. That's pretty much what we do throughout the film. I stood up and took notice rightaway. Absolutely nothing like that in Trial and ToE.

It is not like I think writer is everything. I know 'bringing it to life' is the magic of film. My respect for action-directors owes to this. My favorite Tarantino film is Kill Bill 1, not RD. KB2 or Pulp. When I saw them I understood why I liked KB1 has perhaps little to do with what is seen as his universal appeal (the conversations, lon-ninearity estra).

It is the mesh of the lines and action, the mix of formats, music, the comic-book feel of KB1 that I found excellent. The bride being shot, close range in mid-sentence in the opening scene. Waking up and tapping her temple to get a sonorous sound :lol: All these do not exist in paper. I do get that.

It is just that I am put of by basic material, if it is not made interesting enough that finishes the movie for me. In fact every clever 'movie thing' after that only works against it. I start feeling like 'you fire your writer and think you can get away with all this dazzle eh?'.

Apples oranges notwithstanding, I like Coens for burn after reading, even Hudsucker Proxy NOT Barton Fink (and I won't even bring up 'no country').

kid-glove

11th November 2010, 11:31 PM

Will keep the response brief.

Slight misunderstanding for I brought up W-M for Equa's statement on the need to dissect Sujatha's overbearing signature in Shankar's script (not just dialogues!) to keep check on over-crediting Sujatha in that particular collaboration. To a much larger degree, I find CK to be more of W's signature. Now what's common about CK, Trial and ToE, they are all cinematic. Work of a filmmaker who understands the language of cinema. Not "illustrated texts". Illustrated best in his adaptation of "heavy" literature (Kafka's Trial) - now normally I'm against it. For I think in great works of literature, the form it's given in writing couldn't be visually rendered in contracted duration and default structure of film. Mini-series best compares to works of literature. The expansiveness is important in case of, let's say, "Crime and punishment" (700 odd pages with thousands of words, each playing a function) that isn't feasible as a 3-hour film. In fact, the best works of literature had already found its best form. The "roundness"(that would be lost if it were adapted and constricted to 120 page script.) is vital and whole point of its existence. Raison d'etre. In that respect, film best compares to short fiction in narrative depth. Now take Kafka, Welles gives a whole different treatment to one of the shorter works (which was edited, compiled in different order and published by one of Kafka's friends after his death), "The Trial". It's largely unfilmable for its Kafkaesque maze-like narrative.

Like Camus's reading of Sisyphean struggle, Welles interpretation of K's new-found boldness, vanity at end of it(rather than crumbling down), is superbly spun 'absurd' ending, which originally is of K's solemn submission in the book. Deliberate rearrangement of chapters makes it a different animal altogether. Kafka's black comedy is elusive in words, while Welles is able to get that mood and feel easily, for films is easy to immerse and readily apparent. Acting is key to this. Welles also renders the epistemological drives & existential feel in tight-edged fashion, that's not easily reduced to binary terms, serious or farce. Many films would fall into this quirky little genre (A Serious Man, Barton Fink Synecdoche NY, for eg.) In The Trial, The sets range from Paris to Zagreb, but the overall middle-eastern Europe feel is key as I see it. Casting Perkins as "K" also brought out the Jewish anxiety (and obscure sexuality) of Kafka's novel. Of course, it's not a stretch to say that Kafka had anticipated the holocaust. It'd not be the first time he contemplates antisemitism. Welles picks on this subtext, and builds sets that evokes concentration camps. And not to mention the way his camera looks at the prisoners(?) waiting for their judgment in the alley. Yet, he carefully makes the "Totalitarian" world less specific. It could stand as a microcosmic model (labyrinth-like with the buildings, from flat to commercial spaces, secretive court, etc as one compact unit) of a failing system that seems perfect and works mechanically from outside.

Welles captures K's journey like a dream (ever wondered how we jump to many different places in our dream without fuss.) In all this, Welles never resorts to exposition. It plays on surreal dreamlike fabric, but never tries to work out the symbol-hunter's brain (as revealed by Welles in his book. He hates symbolism.). But it's still a visceral experience. We begin the film with K sleeping on his bed, and end with his death. Perhaps what we are seeing is "Cobb" (who would have woken up in another level of 'reality') whose inescapable anxiety and guilt is compounded by lack of real information about the 'crimes and misdemeanors'. But it's also abuse of power and control, authoritative plutocracy, and therefore a real perversion of "self" that it drives one to. The film works on multiple levels to me.

Normally I'd not liken his work in "The Trial" to CK or ToE (it'd be pompous to suggest that there are direct parallels), but I find many similarities in terms of high contrast, deep focus, and overall filming/editing style. I rate him only behind Griffith in terms of influence. A feeling that is shared by critics of Cahiers, from Bazin, to Godard and my personal fav. Rosenbaum. Bazin dissect's Welles directorial style of C.Kane in "What is cinema?", chapter "Evolution of the language of cinema". Bazin and Rosenbaum are of such influence that I'd end up paraphrasing both if we want to take this discussion further...