thiruvasakam in symphony

[sureshmehcnit]

Heard about this man called L.Subramaniam when he was replaced by Illayaraja as composer for the movie "Heyram" the reason being Kamal went to IR to score the background score alone. But after listening to the album "Double Concerto" by L.Subramaniam even he could have scored the BGM of Heyram with a symphony orchestra. "Double Concerto" is concerto for Violin and flute written by Dr.L.Subramaniam, his first orchestral work. It is for sure a great effort. He has blended the indian classical music with the western orchestra really well. As Thiruvasakam cannot be claimed as an out and out western classical composition i wish IR would also release his First Symphony written for RPO London in near future or he should start working on his next symphony.

I have put my thoughts on "Double Concerto" album in detail here..

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2006/04/double-concerto-lsubramaniam.html

[rajasaranam]

Heard about this man called L.Subramaniam when he was replaced by Illayaraja as composer for the movie "Heyram" the reason being Kamal went to IR to score the background score alone. But after listening to the album "Double Concerto" by L.Subramaniam even he could have scored the BGM of Heyram with a symphony orchestra.....
...As Thiruvasakam cannot be claimed as an out and out western classical composition i wish IR would also release his First Symphony written for RPO London in near future or he should start working on his next symphony.


Suresh for that matter anybody with a deep knowledge in WCM and Indian classical music can score BGM for movies. And sure LS has the capability to score for "heyram" using a symphony orchestra, but how much life he would have breathed into the scenes would have been a question mark :)

[sureshmehcnit]

rajasaranam: i do agree with that. IR could have released the soundtrack of Hey Ram.

[Sanjeevi]

Amazon.com

Editorial Reviews

Product Description
"Muthu Natraman" is the only song in the album that has been sung by singers other than the Maestro. While the song comes across as a very cheerful one, a peeve, however, is that these guys lack the clarity in pronunciation that is so evident in the other numbers sung by IR. The music is mind blowing and jus grows onto you slowly. The prelude is awesome. "Putril Vaazh aravum anjaen", is mesmerizing, right from the word go. IR's monologue right at the beginning of the song is bound to put off many a listener, but that can be pardoned for the song as a whole. The tune is great, interludes just perfect! "Polla vinayen", the longest piece is out of the world in some parts, good in most other parts. IR's voice rocks in "Pooeru konnum purandhararum", but doesn't suit this number when he sings in the high pitches, the age shows. This is the only song that has English words accompanying IR's rendering in Tamil, and the English and Tamil parts have been interleaved very well. The high pitch singing of Ray Harcourt along with the orchestra is divine. It reaches an exhilarating climax towards the end, when they start singing the "Namachivaya vaazgha"! "Pooeru konnum purandhararum" is sung by Bhavatharini & IR. She does a good job of it, with neat diction and good expressions. Towards the end when both of them sing together, the harmony is excellent. "Poovar senni mannan" is also great, and IR's voice fits perfectly here. The tempo is very good.. His diction is jus perfect! The loud chorus/instruments or whatever in the background gives a very good effect. "Umbargatkarase" is a very slow number. IR's voice is extremely expressive, as it is in all the songs, for most part of the song. There is very little instrument in the background and its jus IR's voice that brings in the depth of emotions very beautifully. Because of its pace, this number may not find a fan following. Overall, TiS is definitely a unique, one of its kind album that will not disappoint!

Some other reviews : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000A7QCBO?v=glance

[genesis]

jaiganes,

It is not IR's work that is being scrutinized, it is the person IR himself. Lot of people (including me) were sceptical about IR's personality for a long time, but HCIR fans used to thrash us, when ever we brought up this topic. It is pay back time.

There is no doubt IR is the best thing happened to tamil music. I still love his work done back in 70s and 80s. But I have hard time accepting his personality.

Do not worry, if he stops his creative work - his best was done back in 70s and early 80s. Just enjoy!!

[sudhakarg]

his best was done back in 70s and early 80s.

Not quite.. We would'nt be discussing TiS if that was the case. IR has been giving some extremely good numbers in the 90s & in the new century.

Its just that... virundhu saapida vEndiya thamizhargaL, fast food saapptittu kondu irukkirArgaL!![/i] :lol:

[jaiganes]

Genesis wrote:

But I have hard time accepting his personality.
Nobody asked you to!!

his best was done back in 70s and early 80s.

I guess thats your point of view. The point I made was that he is an artist who provides something for an average thamizhan. I have had the opportunity of travelling in SETC buses from Bangalore- Vellore-Chennai. These are buses which don't have push back seat or big legspace for passengers. Yet, it is amazing to watch them travel without a grumble to Ilaiyaraaja's songs in radio and tape in the dead of the night while they are fighting to sleep. Once a guy remarked "Avaru(IR) paattu kaettukittu irundhaal Lorryle kooda nimmadhiya pogalaam". This is what average thamizhars feel about IR. Now the relatively better educated elite are expected to atleast not disturb this artist, if they can't support him. I will hold this argument true for ARR as well. It is another matter if ARR has reached out to Thamizh masses the way IR has done. My recent travels in these buses have confirmed that MSV and IR are revered in another level altogether and all other MDs merely scratch the outer surface of an average thamizhan while these two legends reach far deeper into the hearts.

[umaramesh]

Hi Jaiganes

My recent travels in these buses have confirmed that MSV and IR are revered in another level altogether and all other MDs merely scratch the outer surface of an average thamizhan while these two legends reach far deeper into the hearts

True. They will not bothered about technology or whether you mixed western and carnatic etc. but simple tune which will mesmerise you immediately . I think MSV&IR made lot of experiement with in the limit and reached masses effectively but later stage it has become fast food type .

ramesh

[rajasaranam]

JG,
Its nice to hear that you too experienced this phenomenon :) Try trav elling via Chennai-Chithoor-Banaglore. You could listen to some awesome Telugu songs in the roadside tea shops and hotels.

[Hulkster]

Well over here in Singapore they give us golden melodies of IR and MSV during the night time....i had the pleasure of listening to Sundari Kanaal just as i was about to sleep. You can certainly feel the music flowing through your mind when trying to sleep while listening to it. There are quite alot of YSR and ARR fans among the youths here. IR is not really very popular amongst the youths here.

[doraip]

IR still and will rule TFM and Tamil Classical Music...He just breathes music and hence the output is different from others. He has never bothered about apeacing anyone including the audience, but truly devoted to give what he thinks is the best.

ARR, et al (includes YSR, Bharadwaj, VS, Vijay Antony,etc.) are interested in captivating audience by providing quick gimmicks and cathy numbers. I have been telling this to many of my friends right from day one of ARR (i.e., Roja). ARR had his days and now struggling to regain his touch. He sounds so boring and repetative. The only thing I admire about ARR is his recording techniques. I do not think anyone has matched that yet.

[Hulkster]

ARR has actually quite good orchestration and instrumentation...his weakness is that he actually tries to find the best tune meaning he keeps on going through the first tune and improving it till it fits the situation...this takes quite alot of time although his output can be exhillarating at times. His strong reliance on the keyboard might also affect his ability to conduct orchestras when it comes to the real world of music.

On the other side, maestro has created songs like poove sempoove, butterfly in just mins. And we need not discuss the way maestro uses the instruments and orchestrates his songs. If not for IR, we would not have known such complex notes in his songs or found out the meaning of orchestration through his songs. His mastery of bass guitar is something that is unrivalled in film music and that too needs no words to describe. I believe IR is the only composer in the world who can create such complex songs at a amazing pace.

[TISK]

Could we confine ourselves to TbI/TiS related matter here please?!

TbI anniversary is coming in a month!

Any ideas?

YIA!!

[jaiganes]

TISK!
I can sing "Polla VInayaen" fully now after some 1000 hearings and it is hard to keep my emotions in check. I start it mildly while taking bath and by the time I reach the pooja Room i am at the peak of my voice . Surprisingly I cannot seem to separate the english verses out of the song. I sing it like Ray Harcourt and am wondering how did I sing that English piece. The idea of embedding English passage is an amazing one. It is like tooty fruties in a vanilla ice cream. The other song which I can sig fully is "Umbarkatkarasae" . I found it the most uncatchy of all the songs initially and now I am singing it fully. TbI is a full success if this is the desired result. So be happy and proud of your efforts.

[TISK]

Thanks a lot for your kind words!

Not a dy passes or me without hearing at least one song from the albu!

Full credits to IIR and Fr.Jegath and the countless patrons all over USA!

YIA!!

[TISK]

Thanks a lot for your kind words!

Not a day passes or me without hearing at least one song from the album!

Full credits to IIR and Fr.Jegath and the countless patrons all over USA!

YIA!!

[sats]

TISK

As i was reading Jaiganes's post i cannot resist my urge to listen to "Pollavinaiyen" lucky me my ipod was with me and Iam typing this as i listen to the song. Whenever i go to the siva temple here @ atlanta , i even without my knowledge sing the verses from Polla Vinaiyen, the divine feeling is indescribable. Thanks to you for taking active participation on this project.

[cry_sandiego]

After almost 2 months, went back to TBI and it had the same effect it had on me the very first time i listened to it almost a year ago.

Polla Vinayen is still my pick with Pooveru Konum a very close second. Polla Vinayen is so emotional and gives you so much goose bumps that you have to get a break before listening it again..Especially after the crescendo " Namashivaaya Vazhga.." my world comes to a stop for atleast a few minutes before i can do anything..

On the other hand Pooveru Konum is very addictive and hard to resist the repeat button for this one.

Poovar Senni is the third best for me..I like this lyrics more than the others. Especially " Thaame thamakku sutramum thaame thamakku vithi vagaiyum.." Man what a profound meaning these words have..
Not sure how many youth got the real meaning of this.

The chorus song is good for the most part except that it seems to get diluted at times..But the chorus arrangement ending is fantastic...."... aada aadaa...Paar kadal ..". GREAT.

I am still coming to grips with Umbakartkarase..

The Putril Vaazhum song is great except that IR's remarks at the beginning seem to put me off a little bit.. In my HO, IR could have avoided that..

All in all, Truly GREAT experience and I am very glad that I was a small part in this whole effort.

Thanks to IR , TIS-USA and TM folks .

Cheers
MSK


Cheers
MSK

[Vysar]

I am proud to say that I am ARR fan from now on

http://www.dinakaran.com/epaper/2006/may/01/disp.asp?i=13_4

[rajasaranam]

yes vysar you can be proud for ARR is one of those fortunate souls to have listened that Symphony :)
Atleast now ARR fans will stop bad mouthing about this unreleased symphony 8-)

[app_engine]

rs, I think ARR is speaking here about TbI and not symphony #1...It's a well covered event that all TFM MD's had a session of listening to TbI...(Remember those two gentlemen challenged both sym#1 AND TbI)...

[buggle]

thx app, i thought about the same since i watched ARR video talking with the press in indiaglitz and it looked same to me.

[njv]

rs, I think ARR is speaking here about TbI and not symphony #1...It's a well covered event that all TFM MD's had a session of listening to TbI...(Remember those two gentlemen challenged both sym#1 AND TbI)...

Based on the question the interviewer asked (i.e. there is a controversy that IR didnt score symphony at all) and the answer ARR made, it seems Symphony #1.

BTW dinakaran and behindwoods have different interpretation of the same question. Dinakaran quoting "symphony controversy" and behindwood quoting "thiruvachakam controversy"

[NOV]

http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/tamil/gallery/Events/1/9607.html



On recent controversies involving Ilayaraja's musical symphony on Thiruvasagam, Rehman said, 'Ilayaraja is a musical genius and no doubt his Symphonic Oratoria on Thiruvasagam is a master piece. The controversies over his work is needless and uncalled for'.

[app_engine]

http://www.dinamalar.com/2006may29/fpnews2.asp
One more controversy...(this time involving Jagath Gasper)...

[sudhakarg]

Guys, any idea if "Making of Thiruvasagam" - DVD is available anywhere on the web?

[rajasaranam]

Letting Vijay and rajdes debate continue, let me recount something else. Yesterday, I happened to see a 30 minute clip of IR's speech at JayaKanthan's Felicitation for Jnanpeet award. It was a very good free flowing speech laid with humorous and musical quotes , thirukkurals , Bharathiyar poems. The anecdotes on his elder brother Pavalar Varadharajan and closing with an explanation for his shift from atheism to theism at Moogambiga temple at Kollur and finally reciting a venba he wrote on JK. Totally fluent and free speech no holds barred from IR.

JG Help needed :? Iam searching for this file for a long time. I lost it somewhere when I migrated to a new PC.

[rajasaranam]

Guys, any idea if "Making of Thiruvasagam" - DVD is available anywhere on the web?

I will Upload it soon inTamilTorrents Site. Will let you know When I do it :)

[TISK]

திருவாசகம் ஒலித்தட்டின் முதலாம் ஆண்டு நாளன்று, இதில் பங்கு பெற்ற அனைவருக்கும் நன்றி கூறி, மீண்டும் ஒரு முறை ஒரு 7 டாலர் செலவழித்து ஒரு தட்டு வாங்கி, உதவுமாறு பணிவன்புடன் வேண்டிக் கேட்டுக் கொள்கிறேன்.

www.tisusa.com

நன்றி.

எல்லாம் இறைவன் அருள்!

You can read it in Unicode

[rajasaranam]

Vaiko's Speech during release function to relish on this first anniversary of Thiruvaasagam by Ilaiyaraaja :)
http://www.vaiko-mdmk.com/sangoli/symphony.php

[njv]

In Vettaiyadu Vilaiyadu when Kamal comes to NY and breaks into Jothika's room he find Thiruvasakam CD (original!) on the table and conclude that Jo is a Tamil girl.

Good choice there! I cant think of anything that identify tamil folks than Thiruvasakam (ofcourse Thirukkural book or Bharathiyar Kavithaigal will also tell you the same, if the cover is written in Tamil!)

[vasanth2006]

In Vettaiyadu Vilaiyadu when Kamal comes to NY and breaks into Jothika's room he find Thiruvasakam CD (original!) on the table and conclude that Jo is a Tamil girl.


Exactly.... I also told to my friend regarding this scene.

[njv]

Dont know whos idea it was. If it was Kamal's then no need to thank him since he is just like us, HCIRF. If its Gautham, big thanks to Gautham.

[irir123]

Most probably it is Kamal's idea, since we all know his admiration of IR!

[TISK]

Kamal being an ardent admirer and constant patron of IIR, this must have been his idea only to compensate in not being able to have IIR's music for this film!

He is known for such poetic gestures!

Hats off to him!

YIA!!

[RR]

I'm moved 'Gautham Menon&IR" discussions here:

http://tfmpage.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=8013

[K]

Polla Vinayen Nin perum Cheer Pugazumaru Ondrariyen

[app_engine]

http://www.kumudam.com/magazine/Kumudam/2006-10-18/pg12.php

ARR's says TbI is 'fantastic attempt'...

[kameshratnam]

Is there any tool or software by which i can just extract the non vocal part of TIS

[kiru]

Reposting from another thread -


>>>>>>>>
I feel TIS was a wasted effort in terms on marketability on the technical front, as it sounded like a studio album with voice mixing (like a film song) instead of a pure orchestral score.
<<<<<<<<<

Precisely my feeling !! Technically I was expecting more from Raja. It may sound blasphemous, but IMHO, to make a technically competent product, Raja must've made someone else sing the lyrics. But given that it wasn't done for purely commercial purposes, I was able to accept his singing, purely for the emotional aspect of his singing. I would've anyday preferred a professional singer sing those lines to market Raja in the international circles.

I just hope he does a live orchestra performance like Yanni did. I feel he's in the leagues of people like debussy who can take music from one era to another, but he chooses to be a well-frog (perfectly fine from his view point) which unfortunately is bad for listeners like us.

It is not the 'quality' of singing that bothers me, because people fault even popular tenors like Pavarotti in certain performances. It is the 'kind' of singing that should have been part of the creative effort. Innovation was focussed on the orchestration, but not on the singing aspect of it. If you listen to an opera or an oratario like Handel' Messiah you get a different texture to the music, unlike TIS.

To be fair, this is really a challenge. because in another link in this forum Sanjay Subramaniam says he can't even sing with small arrangement like mridhangam & violin in an unamplified/acoustic arrangement. But nothing becomes great without overcoming challenges. Probabaly more experimental albums of this kind should have preceded TIS, when so much money was being spent. Father Jegath has realized the mistake and probably corrected it in his next venture, but I am not sure about the quality and creativity with the artistes involved in that new venture (I have yet to hear it, so may be I should not say this).

We should probably take this discussion to the TIS thread.

[kameshratnam]

Polla Vinayen Nin perum Cheer Pugazumaru Ondrariyen...WOW what an opening verse..why this birth and suffering..

IR's voice was divine. The main part here is that you have to really understand the bhakthi portion of thiruvasagam and sing it. No other singer could have done it. Spiritual and philosophical levels of Thiruvasagam are higher. Thats why its called Thiruvasagam ennum Then..and also the verses..

Take this example: How could some one imagine if X Y Z sang enge sellum from sethu....IR did it and it fitted..there have been cases..where it has gone wrong..

How do u expect A B C to sing...Naanar en ullam ar...Sing it urself and also ask the so called competent people whom think can sing it...i am sure they can parallel the genius of IR in rendering those verses...

IR is not ordinary person when it comes to religion..He was written a book on Vivekcudamani which is high in the advaita philosophy...

[jaiganes]

If we go back in this thread, some foreign reviewer wrote that IR's voice was good (for the oriental portions or polla vinayaen) while the english voice for the same passage sounded unimpressive. For an album like TiS it is the emotion and emotional understanding of the song that counts and not the "quality" of the singer. And as humans anyone can feel and understand the emotion associated and empathize with it.

[Jilaba]

[tscii:7dda5b6c94]இசைப் புலமையும், அறிவுக்கூர்மையும் உடையவரான இளையராஜவுக்கே நிச்சயமாக தன்னுடைய திருவாசக இசைக் கோலம் சாதாரணமானது என்பது தெரிந்திருக்காமல் இருக்க வாய்ப்பில்லை. திருவாசகத்தை இசைக்க ஒரு சிம்பனி ஆர்க்கெஸ்ட்ரா தேவையில்லை. சென்னையில் சினிமாவுக்கு வாசிக்கும் திறமையான இசைக் கலைஞர்களே போதும் என்பதும் தெரிந்திருக்கும். ஆனால் ஹங்கேரியின் சிம்பனி ஆர்க்கெஸ்ட்டிராவைப் பயன்படுத்தி ஒரு கோடிக்கு மேல் செலவு செய்து இப்படி ஒரு சாதாரண விஷயத்தை செய்ய வேண்டிய அவசியம் என்ன?

அவருடைய ஈகோதான். சினிமா இசைத்துறை தன்னைக் கடந்து போய்விட்டதை அவரால் ஜீரணிக்க முடியவில்லை. அதில் அவர் கோலோச்சிய காலத்திலும் அவரது ஈகோ மற்ற திறமையாளர்களை அங்கீகரித்ததில்லை. ஹவ் டு நேம் இட் ஆல்பத்தில் அவருடைய அருமையான இசைக் கோர்வையை பல மடங்கு சிறப்பாக்கியதில் அதை வயலினில் வாசித்த வி.எஸ்.நரசிம்மனின் பங்கு முக்கியமானது. ஆனால் நரசிம்மனை அவர் பகிரங்கமாக அதற்காக பாராட்டிப் பேசியதில்லை. புன்னகை மன்னன் படத்தில் காதல் தீம் இசையை இளையராஜா இயற்ற அதை கம்ப்யூட்டர் சீக்வென்ஸர் முறையை முதன் முதலாக பயன்படுத்தி வாசித்த கலைஞர் திலீப் என்கிற ஏ.ஆர். ரஹ்மான் என்று செய்திகள் வெளியானபோதும் ராஜா அதை மறுத்ததும் இல்லை. ஏற்றதும் இல்லை. இப்படிப்பட்ட விஷயங்களைப் பற்றி அவர் பொது வெளியில் பேசுவதில்லை.

ஏ.ஆர் ரஹ்மான் இசையமைப்பாளரானதும் முதல் பட கேசட் உறையிலேயே கோரஸ் பாடகர்கள் பெயர் முதல், புல்லாங்குழல், டிரம்ஸ், கிடார் என்று முக்கிய கருவிக் கலைஞர்கள் பெயர்கள் வரை வெளியிட தொடங்கினார். பல ஆண்டுகள் கழித்துதான் ராஜாவின் கேசட் உறையில் வேறு வழியில்லாமல் இந்த மாற்றம் வந்தது. ஏராளமான புகழ் வந்த பிறகும் ஈகோவை கை விட முடியாமல் இருக்கும் மன நிலைதான் சாமியார் இமேஜை உருவாக்கி, ஆன்மீகம் என்ற பெயரில் தத்துவ உளறல்களைப் புத்தகமாக்கி, ராஜாவைப் புதுப் புது உத்திகளை நோக்கி அலைய வைக்கிறது. சினிமா இசையில் ராமநாதனை விஸ்வநாதனும், விஸ்வநாதனை இளையராஜாவும், இளையராஜாவை ரஹ்மானும் கடந்து போய்க்கொண்டே இருக்கிறார்கள் என்பது சரித்திர உண்மை. கால ஓட்டத்தில் இது இயல்பானது என்பதை விஸ்வநாதன் உணர்ந்து ஏற்றதுபோல ராஜாவால் முடியவில்லை என்பதற்கு தொடர்ந்து பல அடையாளங்கள் இருக்கின்றன.

மீடியா இப்போதும் கேட்க மறந்த, தயங்குகிற கேள்வி இங்கே முக்கியமானது. இளையராஜாவுக்கு மேஸ்ட்ரோ பட்டம் வரக் காரணமாயிருந்த அவர் இயற்றிய சிம்பனி இசை பத்தாண்டுகளுக்கு மேலாகியும் ஏன் இன்னமும் வெளியிடப்படாமலே இருக்கிறது? நிஜமாகவே அது இந்த திருவாசகத்தை விட சிறப்பான இசை முயற்சியாக இருக்கும் என்று நான் நம்புகிறேன். ஏனென்றால் அது படைப்பாற்றலின் உச்சத்தில் இருந்தபோது அவர் செய்த பணி. சினிமா துறை கை நழுவிப் போனபிறகு ஈகோவின் தள்ளாட்டத்தில் செய்த திருவாசகம் அல்ல.

இப்போது இந்த திருவாசக இசைக் கோவையின் நோக்கம்தான் என்ன? பக்தியைப் பரப்புவதா? ஓதுவோரின் எளிய இசையில் கேட்கும்போது கிடைக்கும் உருக்கம் கூட இதில் இல்லை. கடினமான் வரிகளை இசை இன்னமும் கடினமாக்குகிறது. பக்தி நோக்கம் அல்ல என்றால் வேறு எதற்காக திருவாசகம் ? இலக்கிய மாகவா? அப்படியானால் பொழிப்புரையையும் எளிய தமிழில் கூடவே எழுதி இசையமைக்க வேண்டும்.

“புற்றில் வாழ் அரவும் அஞ்சேன்” என்ற மெட்டுக்கு, “என்னில் நீ உறையும் அன்பே” என்று ஏதோ ஒரு பாட்டு எழுதிப் போட்டாலும் விற்கும்தானே?

விற்பதற்கான உத்திகளில் , விற்பனைக்கான கவன ஈர்ப்புக்கான உத்திகளில் திருவாசகம் பயன்படுத்தப்பட்டிருக்கிறது. உலகளாவிய தமிழர்களில் இன்று தமிழ்ப் புத்தகங்கள், சினிமா சி.டிக்கள் இவற்றின் விற்பனையில் கணிசமான பணம் கிடைப்பது புலம் பெயர்ந்த ஈழத் தமிழர்களிடமிருந்துதான் அவர்கள் மத்தியில் ஆழமாக வேரூன்றியிருக்கும் சைவப் பற்றை வியாபாரத்துக்கு பயன்படுத்த திருவாசகம் சிறந்த வழி என்பதில் சந்தேகம் இல்லை.

சைவ பக்தி , வியாபாரம் இரண்டிலும் ஆர்வம் அற்றவர்களாக இருக்க வேண்டும் என்று பொதுவாக எதிர்பார்க்கக்கூடிய கத்தோலிக்க கிறித்துவ பாதிரியார்கள் ஏன் இந்த திருவாசக இசையை வெளியிடுவதில் தீவிரப் பங்கேற்றார்கள்? கத்தோலிக்கப் பாதிரியும் தமிழ் மைய அமைப்பாளருமான அருட்திரு ஜெகத் கஸ்பார் ‘புதிய பார்வை’ இதழுக்கு அளித்த பேட்டியில் சொல்லுகிறார்: “திருவாசகம் ஓர் அற்புதமான பக்திப் பனுவல். நான் மாணவனாக இருந்தபோதே படித்துப் படித்து உருகிப் போயிருக்கிறேன். அதன் தத்துவ தரிசனைத்தை சிறு பிராயத்திலேயே உணர்ந்தவன். ஏகன்/அநேகன், அன்பே உண்மையான் வழிபாடு என்பன போன்ற மாணிக்க வாசகரின் தத்துவ வெளிப்பாடுகள் மதங்களை கடந்து நேசிக்கப்படுபவை. எனக்கு மிகவும் பிடித்த மறையாக திருவாசகத்தை பார்க்கிறேன்” என்று சொல்லியிருக்கிறார்.

அதெல்லாம் கஸ்பார் அறிந்துணர்ந்த திருவாசகம் நம்க்கு கேட்கக் கிடத்திருக்கும் திருவாசகத்தில் என்ன இருக்கிறது என்று பார்ப்போமா?

அதில் ஆறாவது பாட்டிலே ஆரம்பத்திலேயே மாணிக்க வாசகர் சொல்லுகிறார்: “கற்றை வார் சடை எம் அண்ணல் கண்ணுதல் பாத நண்ணி , மற்றும் ஓர் தெய்வம் தன்னை உண்டென நினைந்தெம் பெம்மாற் கற்றில்லாதவரைக் கண்டால், அம்ம! நாம் அஞ்சும் ஆறே!”

அதாவது சிவனை தலை முதல் பாதம் வரை கண்டபின்னும் இன்னொரு தெயவம் உண்டென்று சொல்லுகிற அறிவில்லாதவனைப் பார்த்தால் நிச்சயம் பயப்பட வேண்டும். பாம்புக்கு பயப்பட வேண்டாம். பொய்யர் சொல்லும் மெய்க்கும் பயப்பட வேண்டாம் எண்கிறது இந்தப் பாடல்.

சிவனை அடி முதல் நுனி வரை இன்னும் காணாதவர்கள்தான் ஏசுவைத் தொழுது கொண்டிருக்க முடியும் என்றுதானே இதற்கு பொருள். கண்டபின்னும் தொழுதால் முட்டாள்களல்லவோ. மதங்களின் இயல்பே , ஒன்றை மற்றொன்று பழித்து அவரவர் அடியார் கூட்டத்துக்கு வெறியூட்டுவதுதான். மாணிக்கவாசகரும் அப்படித்தான் பாடியிருக்கிறார். அவருக்கு கடவுள் ஒருவர்தான். ஆனால் அவர் சிவன்தான்.

முன்னரே பாடல் வரிகளை கவனித்திருந்தால் இளையராஜாவும் அதை தவிர்த்திருப்பாராய் இருக்கும். ஆனால் அதுவும் முடியாது. மெட்டுக்குப் பொருந்தி வரும் வரிகளைத்தானெ அவர் எடுத்துக் கொண்டிருக்கிறார்.

“கத்தோலிக்க நண்பர்கள் மையத்தையும் பாஷை தெரியாத பில்ஹார்மனிக் குழுவையும், நியூயார்க் குரல்களையும் மாணிக்கவாசகர் என்னும் மேதையையும் ஒருங்கிணைத்தது” யார்?

ஈசன் தான் என்கிறார் இளையராஜா. பொய்யர்தம் மெய்களில் இதுவும் ஒன்று. காசேதான் கடவுளடா.

இந்த கடவுள் திருப்பணிக்கு காசு அருளியிருப்போரில் முக்கியமானவர்கள் அப்பாவிப் பொதுமக்களாகிய நாம்தான். பொதுத் துறை அரசு நிறுவனமான ஓ.என்.ஜி.சி, ஆயில் அண்ட் நேச்சுரல் காஸ் கமிஷன் தான் இந்த இசை வெளியீட்டுக்கு ஸ்பான்சர் என்று போட்டிருக்கிறது. எத்தனை லட்சம் கொடுத்தார்கள் என்று பகிரங்கப் படுத்தவில்லை.

எதற்காக அரசுப் பணத்தை இந்த திருவாசக வியாபாரத்துக்கு தர வேண்டும்? இதே போல இஸ்லாம், கிறித்துவ பக்திப்பாடல்கள் வெளியிடவும், பெரியார், அம்பேத்கார் பற்றி பாட்டு ஆல்பம் போடவும் தருவார்களா?

திருவாசக மோசடிகளில் இப்படி அரசுப் பணம் வீணாக்கப்படுவது ஒன்றும் ஆச்சரியமில்லை. திருவாசகத்தை அருளிய மாணிக்கவாசகரே அரசுப் பணத்தை மோசடி செய்தவர்தான். அவர் அமைச்சராக இருந்தபோது ராணுவத்துக்கு குதிரை வாங்கத் தந்த காசை கடவுள் பணிக்கு செலவிட்டுவிட்டு சிக்கிக் கொண்டார். ஊழலுக்கு உடந்தையாக இருந்தான் ஈசன். அரசன் கண்ணுக்கு நரிகள் எல்லாம் குதிரைகளாகத் தெரிய செய்தான்.

இளையராஜாவும் சிம்பனி குழுவைக் கொண்டு செய்த நரிப் பாட்டை பரிப் பாட்டாக நமக்குக் காட்டுகிறார். ஆனால் ஈசன் காப்பாற்ற வரவில்லை. வரமாட்டான்.

‘மெய்’ எந்த ரூபத்தில் வந்தாலும் சரி. திருவாசகம், நாலாயிர திவ்யப்பிரபந்தம், சிலப்பதிகாரம் (அதற்க்கெல்லாம் யாராவது கோடிக்கணக்கில் இளையராஜாவுக்குக் கொடுத்து உதவ வேண்டுமென்று சுஜாதா வேண்டுகோள் விடுத்திருக்கிறார்!)

பொய்யர் தம் ‘மெய்’யை அஞ்சோம்.

[/tscii:7dda5b6c94]

[buggle]

Jilaba..not many impressed with your posting..
good try though

[raja_fan]

Jilaba,

This posting is not new to us, the regular visiters to this forum. May be you are new to this. Welcome :)

[Plum]

jilbaba, idhellam ungaloda original points-aa? Appadinna, journalist Gnani has suttufied from you - please sue him - idhellaam avar thannoda column-la 2005-laye ezhudhinaar. Neenga sutteengala? Avaru suttara?

[rajasaranam]

A comprehensive study on TIO by some christian fanatic :)
http://www.ephesians-511.net/thiruvasagam.html
Thalai suthuthu :cry: but my posts are mentioned there and Iam happy about it :D If someone reads the full page please let me know what are they upto :P

[Fliflo]

Fliflo,

This Could be a late call. Never Mind. I am looking for TIS making DVD alone in US. Can somebody help me here.

Best

[Fliflo]

TISK

BTW, I tried to make an order thro' your website but for some reason, it doesn't accept my credit card.

best

[app_engine]

http://www.kumudam.com/magazine/Reporter/2007-03-11/pg2.php

One more controversy on TbI...

[Hulkster]

app_engine sir..please dunt post this postings..its getting even more comical and intolerable...they just cannot tolerate that IR is a WCM genius and is able to produce such fluid patterns in his symphony like orchestration much like his western masters :banghead:

[crvenky]

Father Jegath attacks Maestro again:

http://birund.blogspot.com/2007/03/blog-post_07.html

[irir123]

app_engine sir - what are the contents of that IR article in Kumudam ??

[unhappyboy]

Father Jegath attacks Maestro again:

http://birund.blogspot.com/2007/03/blog-post_07.html

What did he say? I can't read it properly.

[app_engine]

Here it is irir123:

(Reporter carries an interview of Jagath on the 'sangamam' controversy where Kanimozhi Karunanidhi, now a member of TM is involved...only the relevant Q&A below)
...
Q: Are you a supporter of pulikaL? It's alleged that TbI collected 6.5 cr and the money had gone to "somewhere"...

Jagath: This is a pure gossip. I had to spend almost 1 cr to bring out the TbI CD with IR. However, the revenue was a mere 15 lacs. We've settled the loan taken from many in America (for bringing out the CD), by bartering TbI CD's. Any audit dept. can verify the accounts. All this talk about big amount came, we gave "somewhere" is all wrong.

[app_engine]

[tscii:0af03cbaaf]unhappy boy, Hope you can read this relevant part below:

‘‘இளையராஜாவின் ‘திருவாசகம்’ வெளியீட்டு விழாவுக்கு வைகோ-வை அழைத்திருந்தீர்கள்... தற்போது முதல்வர் கருணாநிதியோடு நெருக்கமாக இருக்கிறீர்கள். அரசியலில் நுழையும் எண்ணத்தோடு தான் இப்படியெல்லாம் நடந்து கொள்வதாகச் சொல்கிறார்களே...’’

‘‘திருவாசகம் விவகாரத்தில் நான் பட்ட வலி-வேதனை களை எங்கும் சொன்னதில்லை. இசைஞானி இளையராஜா மிகப் பெரிய திறமைசாலிதான். இருந்தாலும், அவரும் ஒரு சாதாரண மனிதர்தான் என்பதை இந்த இசை வெளியீட்டு நிகழ்ச்சிதான் உணர வைத்தது. இவ்வளவு பெரிய இசைப் பேழையை உருவாக்கிய எங்களிடம் இன்றைக்கு ஒரு மாஸ்டர் காப்பிகூட இல்லை. அதாவது கொடுக்கப்படவில்லை. வெளிநாட்டு உரிமையையும் எங்களுக்கு கொடுக்கவில்லை. ‘திரு வாசகம்’ சிம்பொனி முயற்சிக்கு மொத்தம் ஒன்றரை கோடி ரூபாய் செலவிட்டோம். அதற்காக எனது சொத்தைக்கூட விற்றேன். கிடைத்த வருவாய் வெறும் பதினைந்து லட்ச ரூபாய்தான். இதுதான் உண்மை. ஆனால், வெளியில் ஆளாளுக்கு ஏதோதோ சொல்லிக் கொண்டிருக்கிறார்கள். அதுபற்றியெல்லாம் நான் விரிவாகச் சொன்னால் அது பலரது மன உணர்வு களை காயப்படுத்தும். அதனால் நாகரிகத்தோடு அதைத் தவிர்க்கிறேன்... [/tscii:0af03cbaaf]

[Vysar]

TIS episode helped IR ardent fan like me that he is an ordinary human being.

[unhappyboy]

[tscii:51215933c7]unhappy boy, Hope you can read this relevant part below:

‘‘இளையராஜாவின் ‘திருவாசகம்’ வெளியீட்டு விழாவுக்கு வைகோ-வை அழைத்திருந்தீர்கள்... தற்போது முதல்வர் கருணாநிதியோடு நெருக்கமாக இருக்கிறீர்கள். அரசியலில் நுழையும் எண்ணத்தோடு தான் இப்படியெல்லாம் நடந்து கொள்வதாகச் சொல்கிறார்களே...’’

‘‘திருவாசகம் விவகாரத்தில் நான் பட்ட வலி-வேதனை களை எங்கும் சொன்னதில்லை. இசைஞானி இளையராஜா மிகப் பெரிய திறமைசாலிதான். இருந்தாலும், அவரும் ஒரு சாதாரண மனிதர்தான் என்பதை இந்த இசை வெளியீட்டு நிகழ்ச்சிதான் உணர வைத்தது. இவ்வளவு பெரிய இசைப் பேழையை உருவாக்கிய எங்களிடம் இன்றைக்கு ஒரு மாஸ்டர் காப்பிகூட இல்லை. அதாவது கொடுக்கப்படவில்லை. வெளிநாட்டு உரிமையையும் எங்களுக்கு கொடுக்கவில்லை. ‘திரு வாசகம்’ சிம்பொனி முயற்சிக்கு மொத்தம் ஒன்றரை கோடி ரூபாய் செலவிட்டோம். அதற்காக எனது சொத்தைக்கூட விற்றேன். கிடைத்த வருவாய் வெறும் பதினைந்து லட்ச ரூபாய்தான். இதுதான் உண்மை. ஆனால், வெளியில் ஆளாளுக்கு ஏதோதோ சொல்லிக் கொண்டிருக்கிறார்கள். அதுபற்றியெல்லாம் நான் விரிவாகச் சொன்னால் அது பலரது மன உணர்வு களை காயப்படுத்தும். அதனால் நாகரிகத்தோடு அதைத் தவிர்க்கிறேன்... [/tscii:51215933c7]

I still don't get it. It's hard to read from the monitor. Could you please tell me what the controversy is about?

[kiru]

In my books, IR has not come out clean out of this controversary. I will never support another public-funded effort again like TIS in the future, even though I still think he is a genius and love his music.
Things like this and his tiffs with other personalities are not good, I feel they might affect his artistic output.

[app_engine]

kiru,
There's nobody to present IR's side of the case. Neither he talks about it nor anyone representing him. While that is bad, it doesn't automatically convict him of wrongdoing.

OTOH, those who keep shouting to media like 'IR is ordinary man', 'I sold my property', 'We loaned money but got CD's in return', 'We spent 1 / 1.5 cr but don't even have the master copy' etc., have a responsibility to ALSO publish the expenditure details of a "PUBLIC FUNDED" effort in their official website (which used to publish the donation info). "Any auditor can see" is IMHO one of the most bogus statements that can be made by public personalities. It's like MK telling JJ to go to IT office to check his earnings :-)

Unless they publish details in tis-usa or tm's website the main expenditure items - informing donors like you, things won't be clear as to how much money was paid to IR, what he ran away with, how ordinary he is etc.

சும்மா விவரம் என்னன்னு சொல்லாமல், இளையராஜா சாதாரண ஆள்'ன்னு சொல்லிக்கிட்டுத்திரியறது கொஞ்சம் அநியாயம். இவங்க தானே ப்ரொட்யூசர்? அப்போ மாஸ்டர் காப்பிக்கு ஏன் ராஜா கிட்ட போய் அழணும்? எப்படி இருந்தாலும் எத்தனை ஆல்பங்களுக்கு மாஸ்டர் காப்பி ராஜா வீட்டில் வச்சிருக்கார்? கருணாநிதி / வைக்கோ பத்திக்கேக்கும்போது ராஜாவை ஏன் இழுக்கணும்?

On IR fighting with others:
It's quite well-known that artists can at times be quirky...For the most part, Raja has been quite balanced in his career, and didn't do Britney style things often :-)
(Don't say he fought with VM. யாருக்காக பாரதிராஜா இளையராஜாவை விட்டாரோ அந்த ஆள் இப்போ பாரதிராஜா கூடவே சண்டை போட்டிருக்கார் தெரியுமா? Generally speaking, தப்பு ரெண்டு சைடும் இருக்கு. All these are emotional characters and can act crazy at times, much more than average persons like us).

[Nakeeran]

App Sir

Wonder why U are posting such articles ! :oops:

Lets enjoy the immemorial music of IR .

Why do we need to analyze his personal traits whether he is an ordinary man or immortal guy !

We all know very well how notorious is our Tamilnadu press. They will make a pin , a plane :evil:

Pl put an end to such titbits immediately. :cry:

[app_engine]

This non-entity (at least in the eyes of the public) Jagath become widely known only after his association with IR in TbI project. After getting all the limelight (& also popularity to his TM, which today can attract some one like mu.kA's daughter), he continuously blames IR in every one of his media talks (all the while claiming 'I'm maintaining a decent silence - maRandhu manniththu vittEn' etc)...what a hypocrisy!

[app_engine]

Nakkeeran, If you please go through the prior pages in this thread, you can probably understand how much damage has been done to IR's reputation - especially among a set of people who adore him. While I'm not trying to justify everything that he says / does (and I don't really care much about his personal life except his rags-to-riches story which is quite impressive), இப்படி டிஸ்கஷன் இல்லாட்டி DF போர் அடிக்காதா?:-) On a serious note, to throw all mud on one side depicting the other as holy in this case sounds odd to me...

[venkiks]

[tscii:3bf92ed333]À¡¾Õõ ´Õ º¡¾¡Ã½ ÁÉ¢¾ý ¾¡ý. Å¢ðΠŢÎí¸û.[/tscii:3bf92ed333]

[Nakeeran]

App engine Sir

I have gone through the entire thread. Sad to see many posts defaming Raja like this .
A sincere / dedicated attempt by Maestro is being criticised & doubts being raised about whether its Symp. or not !
And adding fuel to the fire is that Father Jegath .
Seems , this controversy will never end .

Thats why I requested you to put a break becaz, the more info. we share, its more and more saddening .

[app_engine]

OK Nakkeeran, agreed! I'm not going to post any link / controversy here anymore!:-)

[unhappyboy]

This non-entity (at least in the eyes of the public) Jagath become widely known only after his association with IR in TbI project. After getting all the limelight (& also popularity to his TM, which today can attract some one like mu.kA's daughter), he continuously blames IR in every one of his media talks (all the while claiming 'I'm maintaining a decent silence - maRandhu manniththu vittEn' etc)...what a hypocrisy!

Father Jagath...isn't a father supposed to renounce the world and not indulge in money matters? :D Or, is he a diff. type of father and not exactly a priest? If indeed he's a priest, why would he have business deals?

[Kupps]

Father Jagath...isn't a father supposed to renounce the world and not indulge in money matters?

unhappyboy,
i believe its really a question (as your smiley confuses me to take it as a just-a-passerby-witty-comment. still i take it as a geniune question). A father is equivalent to a hindu temple priest. Ofcourse customs differ. In addition to that a father has an additional responsibility of owning/coordinating bringing in people to belief in christ (religious conversion to term it in unpolished way). So a father (or a temple priest) is not necessarily expected to renounce worldly activities and money. Infact he is expected to do so from religion.

That aside, I fully side with app_engine. Long ago when people were questioning TiS_USA guys to show accounts when they were in midst of fund mobilisation I was one of those who supported them because of "on-going" of the activity. However when I come to know that TiS_USA was kind of only "used", and even after the project is completed accounts are not published by mayyam, i feel there is no transparency. It makes me to doubt the motive seriously. Even our local area money-swindling amman koil koozh oothum groups issue "accounts", in a limited sense, to the donors. It is partially due to the fact that next year they need to collect the money from the same set of donor but still they do come up with a statement of income & expense. But Tamil mayyam is yet to publicise TiS related expense. We all know how NGOs created in the name of noble cause is being magnanimously not scrutinised too much by the Income tax department. There are cases where such a facility (given by the government) is abused in India. Given that when serious doubts are being raised against father and the mayyam regarding their nexus with LTTE (bad if it is true, good if it is not), I feel IR was fortunate enough to get out of these "good hearted" people. If the aspertion are indeed true it is good that the master copy has not landed with them. A good example of how master copy can generate continous fund is MS's suprabhatham. If not like suprabhatham TiS's master copy could indeed generate a continuous fund and people would definitely not know where they are funded to.

Yes IR is an ordinary human being. Good that he is termed so and better than gaining a name as a one having nefarious link with some terrorists. Many occassions when IR "arrogantly" comes out has pulled him out of real controversy (except perhaps when his wife was booked in an embarrassing 'bounced cheque' case which is purely personal and not something that affects badly the society as a whole). Hence, for me, let IR be tagged as "arrogant" in this fashion rather than tagged as something worse.

[kiru]

Hi app_engine and Kupps,
I hope you guys are right. In the last 10 years or more, I have been reading this forum, this is the first time, I have so much negative impressions about IR. Wishing IR all the best, so that he can work on his compositions without any mental baggage.

[genesis]

I just can not believe people are still discussing about this scam!! IR and Jagath joined hands and scammed the fans...and now they are fighting who did the scam... I think both are equally responsible.

I do not see any big difference between our cricketers and these people....we treat them like gods and they just cash on our faith.

[kiru]

Guys, please check out 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky around 7:50-9:00 minute. I hear something similar in TIS.

[irir123]

kiru - can you send the link for that piece by Tchaikovsky ?

[irir123]

Kiru - just listened to it - I couldnt see any link between that portion of that piece and TiS

[Vysar]

Q: Are you planning to do more on TIS lines?

IR: No at this moment as some people trying to promote their interests using my name

http://www.kumudam.com/magazine/Kumudam/2007-04-18/pg4.php

Man these people used public funds to promote themselves. Even visited US for fund raiser. Went to maldives for composing not even a penny from his pocket all public funds. Now claims he has been robbed after he robbed many of his fans expectations of good music. TIS is an average score.

[MumbaiRamki]

I would'nt agree that TIS is an averege score -Its splendid ,but that does'nt make us forget few things .

1.Why hasn't Rev.Jegath come up with some kind of Balance sheet for this ? He claims that there was aloss of 1 crore in TIS and personally he has lost 40 lakhs .if he has lost 40 lakhs ,how does he have the money or even strength to organise another event (chennai sangamam)

(or) Is is the noble intention of Rev.Jegath to not to hurt IR and IR fans by publicly decalring the balance sheet and the facts .

Whatever it may be ,IR fans who got loans of thousands of rupees/dollars have to get their money back -IR & Rev.JEgath are responsible for it .Even if IR starts another project like this ,Im not ready to spend one rupee on it .

[Shankar]

>>>>>
TIS is an average score.
<<<<<

This did it...seri nalla score irukkara 2-3 albums pEru pOdunga pAppOm unga expectations enna nu.

[rajdes]

MR, andha noble intention thing - I had reservations about it when it was first posted here.Fr Jegath's noble posturing dindt quite ring fine when it was first posted more than a year back. I dont know how IR/IR fans will be hurt by balance sheet. I'll take that with a bucket of salt.
Surprisingly, while backers are still there for Fr Jegath and his integrity, IR seems to have acquired a declared and proven cheat status in the eyes of some DF-ers. Thats laughable, to say the least.

[rajdes]

Deleted

[rajdes]

MR, andha noble intention thing - I had reservations about it when it was first posted here.Fr Jegath's noble posturing dindt quite ring fine when it was first posted more than a year back. I dont know how IR/IR fans will be hurt by balance sheet. I'll take that with a bucket of salt.
Surprisingly, while backers are still there for Fr Jegath and his integrity, IR seems to have acquired a declared and proven cheat status in the eyes of some DF-ers. Thats laughable, to say the least.

[kiru]

IMHO, IR's integrity is still under a cloud of doubt. The interview not withstanding. Quite a few of us have been following the TIS work closely. That is the reason I say this, inspite of never posting or even thinking a negative thing about IR in the last ten years of using this forum.

[rajdes]

Deleted.

[rajdes]

Kiru, with due respect,you following the TIS thing closely for yeras doesnt constitute proof or a case against IR - it is just your belief. BELIEF. As I have said a thousand times, we can only keep speculating and arrive at 'conclusions' based on which end of the spectrum we are on w.r.t IR's credibility estimates.
Again as I said, if Fr Jegath has a case against IR, I would imagine he could say it aloud. Afterall, why should he take a hit on behalf of IR? I dont think anyone would do it - taking a hit on self's reputation for protecting the reputation of another person. I dont see any reason why Fr Jegath should do that. If he has a case, let him come out in the open and state that.

Instead, what do we have? Veiled references and sly attempts at implicating IR - I dont have the links off-hand but I do remember Fr Jegath saying something along the lines of "IR is agreat musician - lets leave it at that - we shoould not expect him to be a perfect human being".
Idhu enna? Protecting IR's reputation? Is this not an attempt to malign IR? Ivvalavu dhooram solracheye, it is clear that according to Fr Jegath, IR has committed felony. So, first of all, Fr jegath is not saying anything against IR so as to protect IR'rs reputation/IR fan's feelings appadinnu solradhe thappu. He is not. He is clearly implicating IR, though slyly. The joke is that he wouldnt go ahead and state the full case against IR. Appadi noble intentions irukkavara irundha, he would have suffered silently and not opened his mouth. Not that I am saying he should. If he has problems with IR, he should state it. Adhai vuttuttu, taking the moral high horse and then undervaluing that moral high pedestal by taking a below-the-belt potshot - doesnt speak much for him or his integrity.

[MumbaiRamki]

rajdes ,
You seem to have a point.But if Rev.Jegath hasn't lost money or he is cheating ,why would he voluntarily say something against IR /voice his disappointment ? If he is cheating ,its IR who would have come out first .That does irk me .

[Vysar]

We are the one who were losers on the whole TIS debacle. IRs golden days are over 17 years ago. ARR brought out that egocentric personality of that individual to the floor in 1992, that is music is a team effort. It was all "I" before 1992. He tries that "I" now and it is still working with few people.

Talking about better albums How to name it and Nothing but wind are classics. Compared to that TIS is a bland composition of same old style that he mixes and matches all the time. That is my humble opinion and I don't expect you all to change your opinion too.

http://www.kumudam.com/magazine/Kumudam/2007-04-25/pg7.php

[raja_fan]

Vysar,

Whether it is a team effort or single man army, the end product should be beautiful. We don't just care what happens behind the silver screen..

ARR is more a manager than a creator. He just sits with people and extracts the work from people..This fact has been proven by many interviews given by singers like Srinivas, Nithyasree etc..Well, I do not want to go further, because as I said people damn care about whatever happens inside a studio.

It is very clear that you are a ARR fan who just wants to bash IR here..

btw.., what is the relevance of the link you have pasted to the topic here :)

[Sanjeevi]

John Scott's Column
As time permits, John Scott will answer your questions and have the answer posted here. This question comes from Anbu Ramasamy:

Mr. Scott,

I think you are one of the best composers around & my mission now is to go out and get all your CDs. Please keep composing & keep releasing your music.

The question I have is somewhat involving you and another person. I was thrilled when I heard that you were going to conduct the symphony for Mr. Ilayaraja from India when he was commissioned to write a symphony. Mr. Ilayaraja is my favorite Indian composer & I couldn't believe my ears when I came to know another one of my favorite composers (you!) was going to conduct it. There was a huge celebration for him in India with all the top personality & you honoring Mr. Ilayaraja. This was shown in the tele & I was ecstatic to see you on stage. As you were being garlanded on stage, I also happened have your CD 'John Scott's Favorites' gracing my glass cupboard with you in front. I so excitingly pointed out to my family members 'there that's him' & they really couldn't believe as well.

But till now, this symphony has not been released & there hasn't any news about it. I hope you can enlighten about its release & the work of Mr. Ilayaraja.

Anbu(Singapore)

Dear Anbu (Singapore),

Thank you for your very kind comments. I am a very lucky person because I spend my life doing what I like, which is composing music.

It was very interesting to hear that you witnessed the Ilayaraja honoring ceremony on TV. I was flown from London to Madras specially for it. It was an incredible experience and I shall never forget it. Ilayaraja and I became very close friends and I have tried to encourage him to get his symphony released. I believe he was hurt by a critics review, and this is the reason it has not been released. I had the privilege of conducting the recording sessions with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, in London, and we all believe it deserves to be released. The trouble is that critics are capable of destroying sensitive artists and have done it throughout the history of music. The more one knows a piece of music the more one loves it, and the stupid critics are incapable of judging anything they have never heard before. They have seldom been right. There is a wonderful book by Nicolas Slonimsky entitled LEXICON OF MUSICAL INVECTIVE. It is a history of musical criticism since Beethoven's time. It shows how the critics have crucified every great composer without exception! I will contact Illayaraja and tell him about your kind remarks and that he owes it to us all to make his symphony available.

I send you my best wishes,

- John Scott

http://webhome.idirect.com/~rlevy/current_question.html

[Hulkster]

Yaaru pa antha critic...kaiyum vaiyum veichi summa irukka matteingela :angry2:

I do hope IR does show his symphony atleast for us....and it might be coming true soon since IR is starting to become more and more enthusiastic with his anger fading away :D

[thumburu]

In that case Raja should stop scoring for film music too after reading all the scathing reviews his new albums receive unfailingly. But wud he consider that??

[Vysar]

Best thing IR can do now is to remix his own tunes like he did that for Cheenikum. Other MDs are doing that anyway why not him? The original ones from him nowadays is no good. In that way he would spare everyone's ears from horrible albums like Mayakannadi etc...

IRs Symphony
just a phoney
tunes being corny

Hmm...my poem is in par with IRs :)

[buggle]

oh ho..the nut is back

[thumburu]

Now that his son's debut directorial venture "Chennai 28" is declared a hit, a relieved, relaxed Gangai Amaran is back to his pet past time , that is, indulging in gibberish, loose talks.
Avarukku IR oda Thiruvasagam mela appidi enna dhaan kobamo!!
In today's Hindu Metro plus edition[ interview with Chinmayi] , he says IR need not have composed Thiruvasagam just to prove a point. He says Thiruvasagam showcases IR's music talents and not Bhakthi.

[Nakeeran]

Now that his son's debut directorial venture "Chennai 28" is declared a hit, a relieved, relaxed Gangai Amaran is back to his pet past time , that is, indulging in gibberish, loose talks.
Avarukku IR oda Thiruvasagam mela appidi enna dhaan kobamo!!
In today's Hindu Metro plus edition[ interview with Chinmayi] , he says IR need not have composed Thiruvasagam just to prove a point. He says Thiruvasagam showcases IR's music talents and not Bhakthi.

GA eppavume oru loose comments vittukitte irupaaru :twisted:

The same guy conducted a programme in ahaa channel last week !

I think , he just wants to be in the news

[Kupps]

I dont know in what tone GA has mentioned it. Taking it in one way, I feel there is nothing wrong in GA's statement. IR himself has said that he wanted to show case this Bhakthi ilakkiyam of our ancestors to next generation people and that too to global audience. So here the emphasis is definitely not to show the bhakthi level of IR. It merely states that IR is a bhaktha (because he preferred & chose thiruvaasagam and he is so ecstatic about thiruvaasagam), he wants to attempt a different presentation for thiruvaasagam without butchering its merit (the bhakthi and gnaanam that thiruvaasagam oozes out).

IR to show his bhakthi has released quite a few albums, one such is Guru Ramana Maalai wherein he chose to write lyrics as well (to emphasis his bhakthi there).

[raja_fan]

IR is not a man who is desperate just to prove his talent..

If that is the case, he would have compromised a lot to stay at the N0.1 position. Even now Rajini, MR etc are eager to work with IR. If IR wants to prove his supremacy nothing stops him from inviting these people to his camp again !!

[raja_fan]

GA starts his argument with Chinmayi like this "Singers need freedom..Ilaiyaraja just thinks what he thinks is enough" etc.

All through the conversation, he again and again targets IR with Chinmayi disagreeing..

This guy (GA) is a meticulous guy. He always speaks in a manner that will have a hidden attack on his brother but superficially will not be seen as a bad comment..

Once he said "I requested Rajni to give IR chance in Arunachalam" etc. As though IR was begging on the streets or Rajni was waiting for somebody to recommend IR to him .

On another occassion, he said "I want back IR as my brother, not as a genius" and shed tears..

Man, most of the brothers have problems..this is not something new..but have all this within your home..don't fume in public life !

[Kupps]

IR is not a man who is desperate just to prove his talent..
Nope. He is desperate. If he is not then he would have stopped scoring music long back. Genius like IR would never stop to prove a point again and again and again and again. It may not be for others but for their self-satisfaction, to reach perfection, which they defintely feel they are not whereas we might think differently of them. Many a times IR has mentioned/indicated in interviews. We/reporters merely shrug them off thinking that it is philosophical "diatribe".

[raja_fan]

Kupps,

You are talking about inner applause. Self satisfaction. Yes, IR is for it.

I was mentioning about external applause and fame. IR is not proving for this.

We both are right :)

[Nakeeran]

IR is not a man who is desperate just to prove his talent..
Nope. He is desperate. If he is not then he would have stopped scoring music long back. Genius like IR would never stop to prove a point again and again and again and again. It may not be for others but for their self-satisfaction, to reach perfection, which they defintely feel they are not whereas we might think differently of them. Many a times IR has mentioned/indicated in interviews. We/reporters merely shrug them off thinking that it is philosophical "diatribe".

Kupps

IMO, why IR still is around may be to stage a mini comeback after the 92 ,93,94 etc trend change by ARR and others. He may be attempting to prove a point that he is still capable of staging a comeback with his own brand of music despite the fundamental shift in trend .

Ideally, if he can score 4 movies in a year with good themes and interesting song situations besides albums like Messiah / TIS, I will be immensely happy .

Honestly, the rehashes / restructuring old tunes and all, a devoted IR fan will never digest such things .

IR still attracts huge crowds. Last year's chennai programme is an example . There is enough fan following .

There is nothing for IR to prove again. A peaceful retirement after 3 to 5 years will be really graceful .

[raja_fan]

Nakeeran,

I agree with you on all your points except that retirement part..

Why should he retire when he is able to come with new surprises every year and when he still has people waiting for his releases ?

Just because the trend has changed ? or just because he is not on the top now ? or because he is rehashing some songs ?

The first two reasons are not valid. For the third reason, every other MD including ARR and HJ are fit to be retired before IR.

[Dragun]

ARR is more a manager than a creator. He just sits with people and extracts the work from people..This fact has been proven by many interviews given by singers like Srinivas, Nithyasree etc..Well, I do not want to go further, because as I said people damn care about whatever happens inside a studio.

If ARR was just a manager, people like Suresh Peters, Rafi, etc. could simply leave ARR and start composing films themselves, leaving ARR to flounder. But as it is, people are pretty loyal to him. ARR is most definitely a composer, but he also incorporates the talents of others in his songs. No need to denigrate ARR to prove IR's worth.

Also, please read this interview with Srinivas (http://www.indolink.com/tamil/cinema/People/2000/June/srinivas.html). It does not sound like Srinivas is saying ARR just manages other artists.