thiruvasakam in symphony [Archive] - Page 7

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rajasaranam

19th November 2005, 12:22 AM

Did IR hold a pistol on Sunderrajan's head to stay put with him? Let us desist from speculating about film field dynamics.

No...Sundarrajan was there because he loved IR's music and What was got in return is the question raised here. Neither IR held a pistol over my head to be his fan. Iam his fan because i love his music And that doesnt mean I can't have any Critisicism about him atall.
Athu sari Pora pokkula Potham podhuvaa 'Ellam Orae kuttaiyila oorna mattaingathan' ndra unga vimarsanam Epdi ungalukku vanathula irunthu asariri madhiri vanthatha illa kelvipattadha vachu solreengala.
Neenga sonnatha thiruppi pottu paarunga unmai vilangum... Cinema industry suthammanathu angu yaarum karai padiyathavargal...namakku atha pathi vimarsanam panna urimai illa yaenna naama thappa nenachukittu irukira vishayangal ellamae kelvipattathuthan. :twisted:

cry_sandiego

19th November 2005, 12:51 AM

pro20035

19th November 2005, 03:14 AM

Well said cry sandiego. The pseudofans of ilayaraja are having a field day with accusations flying everywhere.

Remember one thing , it is easy to make an allegation of any sort against anybody. The key thing is anybody is innocent till proved guilty.

How will rajasaranam feel if everybody in this forum say that he has raped somebody or mudered somebody. i will just treat it as an accusation and it for the accuser to prove him guilty if he wants. Just because 100 or 1000 people say a thing repeatedly doesnt make it a truth.

I think this forum should be closed and we should confine ourselves to discuss music. All the problems start when people stopped being just fans and wanted to be involved more with the person himself. So lets back off and just discuss the music

kiru

19th November 2005, 04:09 AM

<Neither IR held a pistol over my head to be his fan. Iam his fan because i love his music And that doesnt mean I can't have any Critisicism about him atall. >

Exactly.. You love his music and so your criticisms should stop with his music... not about him or about his business/personal affairs.. If it goes at this rate, we will be talking about " Is IR paying his taxes promptly, is he paying his servants at the federal minimum rate etc etc..". None of our business..

let's stop with his music.. Our relationship with IR is only music. if any of us have other relationship ( personal, business etc..) this is not the right forum and is not professional as well ..

Your footnote should probably be modificed as " Music starts and ends with Raja ... and our discussions should start and end with his music :-))

Cheers
MSK

Sorry..can't have it whatever way you want.. Rs1.4 crores of public money has been spent. Many of it raised through readers of this forum. If at the end people who raised the money and the artist are involved in a disagreement, the public who paid the money would really like to know what is going on.

* said it really well..I couldn't have said it better. No point in trying to silence/hush up any critics.

cry_sandiego

19th November 2005, 08:20 AM

Dear Kiru,

I am not sure if you are going to unravel a 1.4 crore scam with discussions in a public forum.. Sorry I can't help laugh !! if i were this interested in solving this scam I would be spending my time in talking to a Legal/copyrights expert ..

And why do think I am trying to hush up this matter.. no benefit to me. I could care less if IR or someone else whose art i like/love is convicted of murder/scandal tomorrow !! I am a fan of his music not him.

I guess you said u have started a public groups for this specific issue and so you can discuss to your heart's content in that forum and bring the truth to the light.. another suggestion is to start another thread with an appropriate title like " who is the black sheep " etc..

Looks like you still can't get over this Huh ?

Cheers
MSK

kiru

19th November 2005, 08:35 AM

MSK,
I am not sure I am making much progress with you, in communicating my stance. I will let my post stand for the benefit of others who may care. Meanwhile, if you are my friend, you would please leave that sarcasm and ridicule out of your posts.

vijayr

19th November 2005, 11:36 AM

If cry_sandiego/MSK really bothers only about IR's music and doesnt care whether IR is a criminal or a saint, he wouldnt be coming to this discussion repeatedly nor would he try to divert attention or hush up the matter. His claims to the contrary notwithstanding, obviously he is bothered that the person on whom he has invested such a lot of time/money has his ethics being questioned. Its very evident. I would like to see MSK posting the same objections when some ppl here post links to news items that say IR donated something here or did some good deed or got his daughter married off etc.. Because thats his private life too. But, no objections will be posted then. When this same thread was used for used mainly for fund mobilisation(and not music discussion) 1 year back I didnt see MSK posting his objection that only music should be discussed.

Its OK to talk or discuss about IR's private life in detail as long as it portrays IR in good light. The moment anyone hints at anything negative its time to stick "only to the music" and its "none of our business". Funny. And in this case, its not entirely IR's private life thats being talked about either. Some of the fans and others have been affected too. This is more connected to IR's profession than his private life. Even rajasaranam, for being the hardcore IR devotee he is , is more objective it seems.

cry_sandiego

20th November 2005, 12:23 AM

Sorry Kiru If you felt that way ! Did not mean to .. Pls accept my apology.

Cheers
MSK

sudhakarg

21st November 2005, 05:55 PM

Vijay, point taken.. Whats a little disturbing is that some good IR fans have taken the "Guilty until proven innocent" stance. I guess until there is a real investigation, no one is going to know the truth.

21st November 2005, 07:24 PM

My opinion is that people here are getting carried away when they start accusing of Rs. 1.4 crore scam etc.

As a donator, my perspective is this. When I contributed money I contributed to IR for making of Thiruvasagam. If the same TM or TIS wopuld have made a similar request with any other composer, I wouldnt have donated. For me TM or TIS was just a medium for channeling my contribution to IR. I had no expectations or no interest in whether TM or TIS-US was going to be a pert copyright owners of the same. Those things were immaterial in terms of my donation. There were no claims or pormises that were made on that behalf to say the copyrights to TM was basis of donations - it was definitely not the basis of my donation.

Even the current accusations against IR no one has made a complaint that the donatioons that were collected was not used for the making of Thiruvasagam and was misappropriated by IR. As a donatee, I gave money towards making of TIS and Thirvasagam was composed and met all my expectations. Therefore, I do not suscribe to the hysterical accusations of Rs. 1.4 crore scam etc.

I feel for those who took a personal loan to donate to this cause and have a financial fall out and would like to help them personally. But as a ratiopnal donatee, I do not ascribe to all these wild accusations.

jaiganes

21st November 2005, 08:50 PM

I am quite surprised and shocked to read all the disturbing posts made here. Though I did not donate to TM or TIS-USA personally, I bought some CDs to gift it to friends as requested. I am personally happy with the end product. However to learn that so much of murky dealings and arm twisting (bordering on the level of skull duggery) is involved with such a good project is disturbing to me. My wish would be for Ilaiyaraaja to come out open and clean in this matter and for the fruitful combination of TM-TISUSA and IR to continue.
Having said that , I know that after all such bad feelings and rumblings, it will never happen and IR has let go of one more good partnership slip by his hands.
As far as TIS-USA is concerned, they already know that their options are to break even by selling whatever they have got and even the well meaning Father cannot be of much help to them. That alone can explain why they are going silent after the initial afterburst. Maligning IR's image further by an uncomfortable expose' can only impact the chances of selling their stock further. In fact with so much of USA Tamil audience being net-savvy, further reporting of this might have already caused enough damages by dwindling the number of potential IR fans who would find it difficult to buy this album due to the moral question.
As far as the Father is concerned, his cause of concern seemed from the letters and earlier posts, the return on Investment from Welgate , which has come only in a trickle. I dont quite know if he would go home happy if TM gets back its ROI plus profits even if TIS-USA are looking down the barrel.
The only person who seems to be quite happy with the whole deal seems to be Ilaiyaraaja who with the successful stage show watchied crazily by one and all must be feeling that he needs no more birth!!! If he thinks that he can stonewall any criticism with silence, then how deceived he must be as it is the dialogue with conscience that is the most difficult and uncomfortable to hold than a press conference to apologize(as Clinton,Janet Jackson, Nixon have shown already).

alwarpet_andavan

21st November 2005, 09:41 PM

kiru

22nd November 2005, 03:36 AM

Sorry Kiru If you felt that way ! Did not mean to .. Pls accept my apology.

Cheers
MSK
MSK .its allright. You probably did not mean it in the first place.

kiru

22nd November 2005, 03:38 AM

...The silence is indeed disturbing...
As they say, the silence is deafening ...

jaiganes

22nd November 2005, 09:39 AM

jaiganes,
Long time no see???

Yes,
The silence is indeed disturbing. I heard even more disturbing things related to Sundararajan's final days w.r.t IR's help (or the lack of it) but i don't know how accurate it is. Like Father Jegath wrote, truth has the capacity to speak for itself, in time and forever.

I was busy both on personal and professional front tahts why. I didn't expect to come back to the hub and see such disturbing developments. I would love to immerse in music of IR alone and forget all these things happening around. However, that would be one form of escapism. Unfortunately I am not in a position to donate in a huge way or buy more albums to support TIS-USA also. So all I can hope to see is IR repenting for letting down the people who collaborated with him in this monumental project.
However there is a clear lesson for TM and TIS-USA also in this chain of unfortunate incidents. This is one way how NOT to approach a project involving "money". Never let your passion override your prudence. It is a good lesson. All the statements like "Piravi payan" etc., are great motivational statements that cannot be incorporated in a business plan objective.
Now we understand why ARR aligned himself with SONY. so that he wouldn't have to bother about publicity, selling canvassing etc., and focus just on the quality of the sound.

ezy0265

22nd November 2005, 02:10 PM

I am just an observer of this forum all along and I am only involved as an IR fan and someone who had to wait for ages to get hold of my copies of TiS here in Singapore. From the very beginning it has been very clear and obvious that whoever took charge of the production work, whether it was TM or TiS-USA, they have been totally incapable of handling such a monumental project! IR as a composer has done his job to the extreme of class and we all know that after listening to the end product. No one stopped these people claiming to be behind this project from marketing the project well and get proper professional support like getting Sony or Saregama into the picture. Not at all. They were sitting on it the whole duration and regardless of so much comments and suggestions from so many hubbers, they were keeping it all within closed doors as if to claim ownership or out of fear of loosing recognition.

TISK with his by now irritating YIA! signoffs is one main culprit as I have observed. In my opinion this project was very unprofessionally handled from the day they started collecting funds, in the form of lack of transparency. I was simply afraid to donate as I was not confident about these people behind it, whether it was TM or TiS-USA.

From the stage of donations, somehow the whole thing shifted to people with loans etc involved. If they have come in with loans then of course they have took a business decision and looking for a lucrative returns! Why are these folks crying foul now in a public forum anyway?

For such a pathetic work done, they are expecting to gain maximum profit from this project? That's amazing. The project got all the publicity through free advertisements from all the press and media which was not at all the work of any of these people supposed to be behind the project. When I spoke to Mohd Ali and Rafi from Oli 96.8, I was surprised that they were not even aware of this project weeks after it had been launched. I only managed to get hold of my copy through my uncle who visited Chennai. Does any one there know when the actual stock arrived in Singapore!!!?

Furthermore there has been so much of information and details missing from the public's knowledge and now they are expecting us to believe that some parties are suffering loses! How can people who donated care about loses? If it is not donations then, please stop pretending like noblemen who have come into this project for selfless reasons.

IR's job is to create music and he has done his part well. When people around him like Jageth and gang being so incompetent in handling this project failed badly, they want to point pointless fingers at IR and make various accusations! Pathetic truly.

Jilaba

22nd November 2005, 02:14 PM

"Kalagam pirandha dhan Nyayam" kedaikum. What iam pained is all this talk of, if i dont do this work i will be born again to do this etc etc from IR . If this was true he should not even be bothered about monetary benefits out of it. Spiritually he has gained what he wanted apuram yar adhe distribute panna ivarukku enna.Legally whatever he has done might be okay , but ethically very wrong.
puriya vendiyavangalukku purinja sari.... :D

anaa puriyatha maathiri nadipaanga. adhuthaan vedikkai.... :lol: :lol:

MumbaiRamki

22nd November 2005, 04:04 PM

TISK ,Fr.Jegath ,Sridhar Seetharaman ,SOcrates etc ...are no special people .They are just ordinary people like us .I don't think they ever went to this project for earning profits .Nobody will take aloan for $40,000 for profits !!!

TIS was sufficently publisiced .Only due to this ,it sold XX,XXX cassets and CDs in India .Agreed ,there were some slack in that ,but that was due to in sufficent man power .When we stop our efforts at tfmpage.com ,who will join hands with TISK and Fr.Jegath for publicity ? Thankfully Illayraaja yahoogroups were there to help ,though the actual management and control was done by few peopel only .I feel TIS got more publicity than allo fthe 2004-2005 IR albums put together.Secondly an effort like this should not be too much commercialised - you have to inform people abt this but you should'nt commercialise in a way similar to a PEPSI or COKE .You simply should not .Its thiruvasagam!

One more thing that is forgot is that teh distribution is through WelGate and they haven't made any efforts to publisice this monumental piece.This is the first time that a Distributor does not spend any effort in this .If some body has'nt got a CD at the right time ,the blame goes to Wel Gate .Its 'NOt Well " mr .Gate !!!

TISK or Fr.jegath never said they could not earn profits.If they could not get back their loans due to the failure of TIS then its different.But the point is TIS is fairly successfull and yet our friends did not get back the money .The reason stated is Raaja's being adamant in CD RIghts /Distribution etc .

I still don't belive Raaja would have cheated for money - but he might have been very adamant in his own beliefs which has caused discomfort for so many people .

Cinefan

22nd November 2005, 04:11 PM

I am quite surprised ........................................ Nixon have shown already).

Hey man,welcome back :D Was wondering what happened to you?

jaiganes

22nd November 2005, 06:10 PM

Hey man,welcome back Was wondering what happened to you?
1. Marriage
2. More work
3. Future fatherhood
4. Car
In the order it happened.

:D :D :D
BTW How are you doing?

Ramki!! I badly want to feel the same way. However, the fundamental aim is to raise money for some future work. And raising money = making profits by selling the holy thiruvasagam . not by making thiruvasagam and keeping quiet. correct me if I am wrong. :D

Cinefan

22nd November 2005, 06:18 PM

3. Future fatherhood
4. Car

:D :D :D
BTW How are you doing?

Hmmm,good progress in 3 months(u have been away from the hub for this period right?) :D .No wonder weekend cricket took a beating
:lol:

Am doing very fine,Thank you.

MumbaiRamki

22nd November 2005, 06:19 PM

JaiGanes ,
Yes u r right - I was commenting on the manner of publicity .You have to market heavily but in a sensible way .

( U can't involve Mumtaz and maker say ' naan thiru vasagam ketkiraen' and promote thiruvasagam ;)

Vysar

22nd November 2005, 08:27 PM

Madan's answer! Mottaiyin Adutha Mottai Yarukku?

http://www.dinamalar.com/2005Nov22/vikatan.asp

stranger

23rd November 2005, 05:32 AM

Madan's answer! Mottaiyin Adutha Mottai Yarukku?

http://www.dinamalar.com/2005Nov22/vikatan.asp

I could not see the question or answer as quoted!

Madan's answer!

Mottaiyin Adutha Mottai Yarukku?

But I rather found a different question:

IR thiruvaasagaththukku aduththu enna seyyalaam?

Then answer was:

He can work on some Bharathiyaar or Bharathidaasan songs and make the world to enjoy and appreciate it.

----------------------------

Guys!

Have you ever heard of "filthy hub-looters"- some new kind of lowlifes????

When there is a fire, or Tsunami or flood, looters steal and do all cheap things. That is looters u may aware of that.

These "hub-looters" are spineless low lifes always come up with some worthless crap by manipulating the facts!

Seems like we have got some around here.

If IR cheated someone, that loser can always go to the court and prove that IR is guilty and prove to the world.

until then all the accusations are nothing but BS!

Critics run their lowlife by speculating anything in the world.

These "hub-looters" take advantage of such low-level critics's bs and make a story out of it.

hmmm....

Vysar

24th November 2005, 04:25 AM

People calling names now in a public forum. What a pity? I didn't go and announce publicly that I am going to donate to tsunami and music college from all the TIS profits. Since God sees the truth, I didn't donate diamond hands from part of the profit to cover up the money made in the Wellpoint deal. No wonder God keeps them in nether than other MD (kudu satiyiale kudirai odikkondu irukkargal)

Jilaba

24th November 2005, 02:32 PM

Madan's answer! Mottaiyin Adutha Mottai Yarukku?

mudhal mottai pirachinaiye innum theeralaiye.

theru sandaiyai vida mosamaa irukku.

buddysathi

24th November 2005, 08:37 PM

Entha jilaba manasila romba rouse-unu nenaippu!! Ella threadlayim poi kalaikiranu "sappai " thanama post pannikitu erukkuthu!! ethu weight thaanu yaaravathu solunga!! Seri ezhavu naayae naanae solren!!

" Jilaba!! sema weight pa nee!! enna sharp!! enna presence of mind!! chance-a illai"

sudhakarg

25th November 2005, 07:55 PM

It was interesting to read that "Making of Thiruvasagam" VCD is being supplied as part of TTLS!!

http://ursmusically.blogspot.com/2005/11/making-of-thiruvasakam.html

The article says:

Infact Father Jegath Gespar himself has carried the mike and camera to interview various musicians from Hungary

Now. does Father Jegath / TIS-USA has any ownership/copyright of this VCD?[/quote]

TISK

26th November 2005, 01:56 AM

Dear all,
Pl. check our website www.tis-usa.com for an update. Thanks.
YIA!!

And, as you are busy with the holiday shopping, keep TbI also in your list!

rajdes

27th November 2005, 06:00 PM

prabhu, by no remote imagination can I be a devotee of IR. If I were, I would have taken a lot more effort and pains over Thiruvasagam itself.You are misinterpreting my point.
So far, there has been lot of smoke but no evidence of fire. Smoke is Smoke or snow? Thats the question. kiru et al are going by what the father says. I refuse to. Give me cold hard facts. Dont give me the "believe the saint" bull-shit, whether the alleged saint in question is IR or Fr Jegath.

If all this smoke disillusioned you about IR, I cant say much. In human relationships, nobody is perfect. People come out with their versions of truth.
As you can see, IR has done some good things(allegedly - nobody knows the truth about what he really did for Ramarajan etc) and some alleged bad things. One can only presume that he did things according to his conscience.

I am sorry to say, each of you look back at your life - your actions would be interpreted differently bydifferent people - go and interview those relatives of yours who never seem to be on good terms withyou(I am sure each of you would have a handful) and they will give you a far different image of you than you have.

What we are being sold is IR's image as per X, Y and Z. You may buy it. I will not. You go shoot a irrefutable proof and I will buy that.

This doesnt make me a IR devoteee - it merely makes me rational. Irrational are those who now want to believe that IR is guilty when even, as Ikeep stressing, , THE CHARGES HAVE NOT BEEN FRAMED! (talk of an inefficent prosecution :-)

kiru

28th November 2005, 05:23 AM

rajdes, I am not going JUST by Father or TISK's version of events. I have been reading about IR and his music very intently for the last 8 years in the media - including his books, news items, interviews, speeches during concert recording, most of all his songs, including lyrics by himself and his friends (like Karunanidhi).
Just like you, I consider myself rationals, that is why I am disappointed with IR's attitude/actions in this matter. If IR does not come out with a clarification, he is making a massive PR gaffe. I doubt we will see another public-funded project like TIS in future.

thumburu

29th November 2005, 02:20 PM

Kiru, as you yourself have stated as some one who has been closely following IR for the last so many years, you must have got wind of IR's unethical practices some time or other and why didn't you blow the whistle when TIS/TM were seeking public donation then?

rajdes

29th November 2005, 06:38 PM

IR making PR gaffe - story as old as the hills. If his PR gaffes amount to crimes, he must be sitting atop a crime hill as high as the everest now. Yes, I would echo Thumburu. Why didnt you or for that matter vijay or anyone who have been forming a negative opinion on IR's honezty over the past few years based on magazine reports, website 'news' etc blow the whistle on IR earlier - when the money was being collected in his name - see, how easy it is to ask questions?

IR adhai en pannalai? ithai en pannalai? We can keep asking till the cows come home. Adharku munnal, let me ask people who we know actually are cognizant of this forum and our discussions - why dont they come up with their version of the truth along with collection and spending details - a full account as it were literally and figuratively? Have they already done it? if so, pls do point to me the specific link.

If TM and TIS boldly come out with their statement of accounts, and establish their honesty once and for all, I will not even wait for further evidence on IR's wrong doing - I will join you in hounding him until he speaks atleast. Until then, sorry, the rational response is to wait for the truth to emerge. Anyone leaning towards either side can only be called biased.

TISK

29th November 2005, 07:59 PM

Pl. refer to my posting on the 25th in this page. YIA!!

app_engine

29th November 2005, 08:49 PM

Since TiS-USA does not want to quote the numbers elsewhere, my `safe' posting below about their blog (esp. for neutral observers like rajdes)...

I feel there couldn't be any better communication than posting so much details on the web by Tis-USA. And I do think that it has honesty written all over it. Theirs is a question of over-enthu and now coping with ground realities.

However, after going through the numbers, even though I do not agree to the concept of `CD's at cost against loan', which I still maintain is improper, that's probably the only thing that TM could offer them...or what TM could get from IR/ wellgate since they probably are totally businesslike and didn't want to spend a penny on the production from their packet. (IR's take could be like 'I gave my creativity, and it will sell on both merit and my popularity / publicity etc. Why should I ALSO pay money from my packet? I've never done a thing like that for any of my projects...I'm only used to GETTING money and not spending money on my albums... Let TM sell and give back the loan to Tis-USA...after all, they WILL make more money than invested...') And IR/wellgate could have reasoned that the cost of CD's is just that -physical media and production cost- which is reasonable...

And to the credit of IR/wellgate, they have probably not appointed any disti in NA so for...to make sure Tis-USA is home...

And TM & Tis-USA would have mutually agreed that the additional amount (i.e. cost of CD's) will also be invested apart from the loan, in any case we should be in a position to get back at least the investment as the product seems to be OK...and may move fast...

For now, let us keep TM/ Wellgate/IR away from this scene and focus on the plight of Tis-USA, which is kind of independent as of now...and will possibly be in a position to salvage their condition sometime in the future, if not immediate...with some help & efforts ofcourse...

The issue for Tis-USA seems to be the `slow-moving' nature of the product. And the inability to pump in more marketing efforts to speed up the movement, given that funds beyond the means of the org has already been invested in production...

So, come on DFers of North America, chip in with your ideas to expedite the movement of the product...don't worry whether the idea is do'able or wild...any idea should be welcome and who knows what will click for Tis-USA...(And this is probably a better effort, Kiru sir, than trying to salvage TM which is not so open in providing figures to the public yet)...

app_engine

29th November 2005, 09:10 PM

What about some target marketing through the web TISK sir? To begin with, why not approach RR to help...to send a special offer through e-mail to the 8000 plus subscribers to "The Hub" (probably 50% of them away from TN and not all would have known about TbI or obtained a copy) ?

There could be similar close-knit Thamizh speaking communities on the web...who can be approached through individual e-mails...

baroque

30th November 2005, 12:04 AM

app_engi & others

I got the response mail from my local library of their purchase of TIS(CD & DVD). sorry I am boring you all with my ONLY one suggestion but it is a easy, sure way!

I posted the response to the group so that our other USA fans /UK fans will be encouraged by it and will try harder with their local library!!
Fellows visiting USA on deputation(even short duration), you can get your library card easily, all you need is a proof of your current address-your rental agreement,bank statement,driver's license will do!

I think fans living in Developed nations(USA,UK,Australia,Canada etc... ) can try!!

More sample forms around the globe!

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/Library/suggest.shtml

http://www.library.usyd.edu.au/contacts/suggestpurchase.html

TISK

30th November 2005, 01:02 AM

I am speechless with gratitude for the forthright plain writings, Mr. 'app-engine'. Thanks a lot.
You have summarized the position very clearly and correctly and I am willing to play along.
thanks again.

And... thank you too, Ms. 'boroque'!

baroque

30th November 2005, 02:28 AM

[tscii:f00365ab3e]TISK, Please stop posting 'thank you' notes!
Neenga ponelaa to your local library with your spouse or daughters or friends???????

I feel better if few people come and post ' yes, Vinu! I also tried with my local library!'

This is a GREAT Music! It is not expensive! The reference desk people/librarian at my library really took interest when I showed them the web-site! I felt very good! I am trying with another library too! It’s a WINNING idea! Public get a GREAT music, we get to sell our cds,pay our loans too! pannungappa! love, vinatha[/tscii:f00365ab3e]

kavin

30th November 2005, 07:31 AM

Yuva..yuvaaa...yuvaaa.. yuvayuvayuvaaaa...

more and more more and more truth.....

IR's initial proposal:

Thiruvasagam: as a concept to the present and future generation for a historical exploration of a musical experiment in philosophico-anthro-spiritual past to be presented to the youth of 21st century. (ahh..ha...ha..aha..ha!!!!!) (please note, it doesn't say anything about multilingual approach, using SONY NEWYORK..etc)

Fr Jegath Gaspar creates an NGO for tamil culture and development - TAMIL MAIYAM and offers itself to IR for TIS!!!!!. Obviously it had nothing else to do!!!!( again...ahh..ha...ha..aha..ha!!!!!)

TM after much deliberation decides that TIS should present itself in four different language (tamil, hindi, english and german). Ambitious/or naive/or stupid/or asking us all to be stupid??)

It creates a website and falsely projects Shri Vajpayee and others giving credibility to this project in the political climate of the all powerful hindutva(who in their dreams expected UPA to be the next power in the homeland!!!!!).

A clear exploitation of the WWW media and WWW deception and WWW SCAM!!!!

TM in a mistaken gamble, targets TFMPage as its source for fools and identifies vulnerable fanatics and presents this project (including kiru and other noble philanthropists in this forum!!!!ahh..ha...ha..aha..ha!!!!!). TISSSASS, TISSS, TISS, TISK and everyone else falls for this!!!!!! surprise surprise surprise!!!!! Aren't you happy you got what you deserve??!! (Sankar Kumar happens to be in the advisory panel of TM !!??)

TIS-USA after initailly critizising the venture (those who doubt this scroll back to IR new albums page before TIS page came into existence), finally falls into the laps of TM's deception, becomes a member of TM and makes its own agenda. It lays down its own agenda for commercial success, works on its dollars, TGD campaign and after established itself as a significant force in this project, seeks Richard King and Sony as its selling/marketing coup in USA.

It also identifies Stephen Swartz as the only insignificant soul in this whole non-consequential postmodern world who can possibly translate the insights of the great MANICKAVAASAGAR's view of human existence.

Unfortunately, for TIS-USA, it could access IR only through TM. IR, steadfastedely stuck to the original agreement of composing the music when everything else was ready and held the rights for his creativity, no matter what the production effort was( stephen swartz' translation, Budapest's performance rights, sound engineering). ( do you see a genius in action ... not just in his art but also in the art of managing those who can potentiallly exploit him!!!???) ( he never asked for Stephen Swartz, or Richard King, or Budapest or the Sony Music studio in New York).

TIS-USA then spends all its donation, (loans - no evidence for this yet!! and never will there be one) for Richard King, Sony and Stephen Swartz. (ahh..ha...ha..aha..ha!!!!!). IR then has a master stroke in store for the TIS-USA and TM. IR rejects the master tape sent by SONY NEW YORK. HOW VERY SAD... cho..cho...choooo. SONY-NEW YORK was not upto the standard IR expected. They made critical errors in their music theory!!!! IR sends the tape back to them for corrections (while TIS-USA is wondering what hit them!!!).

TIS_USA shells out more and also gets the first glimpse of their business misadeventure and then realizes that there is tough battle to contend with a genius not just in his art but also in music business( of course TM and TIS_USA were novices in this..ahh..ha...ha..aha..ha!!!!!)

All those who frequent this forum, raise your hands if you think this TIS required Stephen Swartz, Richard King, Sony studio NY USA ( hoping that there will be none). And also raise your hands if you think that Thiruvasagam by IR is a worthy product for either TIS-USA or TM to spend their effort over 2-3 years (will most definitely not want to raise my hand for this).

:lol: :D :wink: :?:

Shankar

30th November 2005, 11:35 AM

Digression----

Kavin, everytime i read your post, I'm reminded of the character kikuchiyo ( from the Seven Samurai - played brilliantly by the legendary toshiro mifune)and his lengthy monologue about peasants and samurai :-) , especially those laughter you've added after making your points.

----end digression

30th November 2005, 02:40 PM

kavin....Just a few mintues of the track 2 of the album is worth hmmmmm........well I cant find something to equate it to.....PRICELESS. hope it answers your questions

30th November 2005, 03:09 PM

Shankar, is there an mp3 of that? Just being curious :lol:

Shankar

30th November 2005, 04:09 PM

*,

I haven't come across one. But the dvd i have has english subtitles tho the movie itself is in japanese. Was seven samurai ever dubbed into english ?

I somehow prefer japanese soundtrack with english subtitles (i have watched rashomon both in japanese and in english...the dubbed version isn't all that good)...Toshiro's voice modulation cannot be matched.

thumburu

30th November 2005, 08:27 PM

And also raise your hands if you think that Thiruvasagam by IR is a worthy product for either TIS-USA or TM to spend their effort over 2-3 years (will most definitely not want to raise my hand for this). - That may be your opinion. But I raise my hand for this. Show me any worthier product of any Indian MD in the last few years that beats this one

baroque

1st December 2005, 12:20 AM

Well, Kavin is entitled to have his opinions!

Yesterday evening I went to another library in my locality, here also the reference desk people was very kind and took time to look at the TIS-USA site, impressed by the artists involved in this GREAT project, I informed them Shri.Ilayaraaja is a BIG Name in film industry in South India, I am positive they are ordering too for the public to access!
Thanks to the tax payers in my area :) , you have done a WISE investment! :clap: :thumbsup: vinu.

rajasaranam

1st December 2005, 04:57 PM

Kavin Has become somewhat confused because of the whole scenario and His post shows this. He is not supporting either. Goof lord :shock: please kavin relax for sometime and listen to IR songs :)
Baroque,
Thanks for your efforts in helping out TISK :thumbsup:

baroque

2nd December 2005, 12:07 AM

[tscii:362c1eff85]Rajasaranam,

Bulk aa order pannamataa! Okvaa!!
They may be buying one or two copies of TIS! that’s all!

Even Classic Holly wood movies/music albums or current sensations like Tom Cruise or Leonardo Dicaprio or Cameron diaz movies also they stock only one or two copies for the public to access when request comes!! :) [/tscii:362c1eff85]

stranger

2nd December 2005, 12:44 AM

Kavin Has become somewhat confused because of the whole scenario and His post shows this.

yeah, I could understand quantum mechanics a little bit but kavin's post is much harder for me to understand :(

I feel bad for the celebrities as anybody can talk any trash about them, sometimes using the name of God too. :(

I dont see any reason for IR to use TIS to make a fortune for him as there are plenty of ways in which he can make the same money unlike some poor hubbers here. 8-)

It will be wonderful if we are given a the privilege to consider the hubbers-who come up with allegations- also as a public figure or a celebrity. Because we can really show that the allegations are nothing but trash in their own way! 8-)

Vysar

2nd December 2005, 03:18 AM

For IR it is not about money only it is also about his ego.
IR lost to ARR in Tfm.. then ARR went to become No.1 in Hindi then went on to become a world composer in a span of few years.

IR wanted to do the same rather late in the expense of other peoples hardwork, name, and finance. IR mismanaged his finances but now trying hard to be in par with ARR. But it is too late for him. TIS is an album where none of the big heads even want to sponsor while we as fans donated money for some ones greed and ego. Lot of lies were spread by IR himself at the end he made the profit for himself. The Tsunami victims and Sunderajan soul will never forgive him for all the lies.

stranger

2nd December 2005, 03:41 AM

IR lost to ARR in Tfm..

Just like Michael "lost" to Shaq, I suppose ?! :roll:

For IR it is not about money only it is also about his ego.

Any creator has ego. If he/she does not have that "ego" he would not have become a "creator". 8-)

He rather would have become a "philosophor" instead. :D

Lot of lies were spread by IR himself at the end he made the profit for himself.

I read ABOVE, "It is not about money and it is about IR's ego"????

The profit helps him to get more ego or what??? :roll:

2nd December 2005, 07:49 AM

"Lot of Lies by IR..."

When I as a fan donated money, it was for IR who stated that he'll set Thiruvasagam with a Symphony Orchestra.

That he delivered. That was the only reason I as a fan donated money. It was not for TM or anything else.

Let us be objective here. Our donation was sought for the making of TIS - which was done and delivered.

Shankar

2nd December 2005, 10:57 AM

>>>>>>>>
IR lost to ARR in Tfm.. then ARR went to become No.1 in Hindi then went on to become a world composer in a span of few years.
<<<<<<<<

sari...sari....kanavu kandadhu pOdhum, muzhichukkOngO...

>>>>>
while we as fans donated money for some ones greed and ego.
<<<<<

WHAT'S UR CONTRIBUTION TO TIS IN TERMS OF FINANCE ?? HOW MUCH DID YOU DONATE ?? (DID YOU DONTATE AT ALL ????)....NOW DON'T TRY TO PIGGY BACK ON THE REAL DONORS :-)

>>>>>>
Lot of lies were spread by IR himself at the end he made the profit for himself. The Tsunami victims and Sunderajan soul will never forgive him for all the lies.
<<<<<<<

ON what basis are you quoting all these BS ??? Can i just go around and say you are an IDIOT just bcos I have a net connection and login id to a forum ??? Get your facts right...Quote your sources...and THEN blame.

What have Tsunami victims got to do with TiS...Who told you sundararajan wasn't happy with Raja when he worked till his last breath with Raja and no one else ?

Shankar

2nd December 2005, 10:59 AM

The major problem being a public figure (and a guy like Raja who worships his work) is that you would be treated like dirt by Low lives who have done nothing themselves, and you have to listen to it inspite of knowing that they are low lives..Sigh...

Sanjeevi

2nd December 2005, 12:31 PM

IR lost to ARR in Tfm..

Just like Michael "lost" to Shaq, I suppose ?! :roll:

There was any 100 m race between IR and ARR? :?

For IR it is not about money only it is also about his ego.

Any creator has ego. If he/she does not have that "ego" he would not have become a "creator". 8-)

He rather would have become a "philosophor" instead. :D

Exactly :)

Lot of lies were spread by IR himself at the end he made the profit for himself.

I read ABOVE, "It is not about money and it is about IR's ego"????

The profit helps him to get more ego or what??? :roll:

He is composing music not lies 8-)

Vysar

2nd December 2005, 08:47 PM

Someone is comparing Michael Jackson (IR) to ShaQ (ARR). I am sure it is not intended for Jordon. I respect a person based on character. His music might be good (not excellent) but if he falters in moral values then he is nothing but a cheat. I read someone quoting that Mozart, Beethovan had evil virtues. I could probably say IR might be in par with those geniuses in virtues alone.

I am the one who actually brought the issue of IR donating diamond fingers to GOD while TIS-USA was literally begging for money.

I am one who brought light to this controversy while others were hiding behind the facts.

stranger

2nd December 2005, 08:51 PM

It is Michael Jordon and Shaq!

you need to check out nba.com and learn a bit.

And people do know what they are talking about unlike you! :lol:

stranger

2nd December 2005, 08:56 PM

I am the one who actually brought the issue of IR donating diamond fingers to GOD while TIS-USA was literally begging for money.

I am one who brought light to this controversy while others were hiding behind the facts.

And you are the one who claimed as IR fan as well.

And you are the one who is back-stabbing him now too! :(

Vysar

2nd December 2005, 09:02 PM

I would advice you to read my posting again. People think that they are fashion statement quoting NBA and stuff.

Regarding backstabbing, I am learning this from my idol thats all. I am fan to his music but I cannot take it when this egomaniac ruining other peoples life.

sudhakarg

2nd December 2005, 10:32 PM

stranger

2nd December 2005, 10:44 PM

I would advice you to read my posting again. People think that they are fashion statement quoting NBA and stuff

In the early 2000, MJ was being a veteran player and he did not want to compete for winning the nba-title. That will never make him a loser or runner to anybody. Because he proved himself long before. So did IR.

Calling him as a runner to ARR is inappropriate and it is not WARRANTED here -especially by a so called IR fan.

Anyway, I still did not get your point reagrding "fashion and all".

Regarding backstabbing, I am learning this from my idol thats all.

I would believe an artiste's word rather than cheap critic's nasty allegation or accusations by someone else in a trashy magazine!

Show me the proofs for your allegations which I have not seen yet.

Thanks :)

Vysar

2nd December 2005, 11:21 PM

You know NBA history huh! Jordon actually came back from retirement played with Wazhington Wizards tried to win a title again and lost miserably. If he stayed retired he would have kept his dignity of going out a winner as a Chicago Bull. So thats what happening to IR, TIS is a good album due to IRs mismanagement it is not selling well. We as fans are the one promoting the album but there are no buyers. I bought 10 albums to give it to my american friends to listen. IRs greatest album but it cannot even reach the masses as ARRs Vandhemataram did. The very day Vandhematarm released i saw a copy in Borders bookshop. It is because sony released it. But TIS to Wellgate and the album promotion stalled.

stranger

2nd December 2005, 11:22 PM

You know NBA history huh! Jordon actually came back from retirement played with Wazhington Wizards tried to win a title again and lost miserably.

Put that in the joke per day thread!!! :rotfl:

Vysar

2nd December 2005, 11:27 PM

Another thing I want to say is IR is IR, comparing him to MJ is the worst thing you can do to some one who had been the greatest. MJ is never a egomaniac and always have good things to say about youngsters. But IR on the contrary never uttered anything good about the youngsters. He thinks he is the greatest and only his music is the best of the world. But the fact is he churns out mostly crap than anything TIS being an exception. He should gracefully retire then I would think about comparing him to Ron Artest :)

Vysar

2nd December 2005, 11:29 PM

I didn't know that you are that ignorant when you advice some one to read about NBA history. You should be prepared to know much better than that person.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_jordan/

stranger

2nd December 2005, 11:44 PM

well, unfortunately, that makes you look that u r admitting that u r ignorant, vysar! :lol:

Hi you remind me of some Indian Professors. They typically will get a critical reference from a student today. Then tomorrow they will go back to the same student and suggest them to look up the same reference as if they came up with that idea, first! :lol:

You r very funny :lol:

Vysar

3rd December 2005, 12:24 AM

First of all read my initial posting you ignorant friend.
I mentioned that I rather compare IR to Michael Jackson than Jordon. I think you need a prescription for glasses. You showed this world that you are an oxymoron to the entire world by saying jordon never played for Washington Wizard.

stranger

3rd December 2005, 12:27 AM

You showed this your oxymoron to the entire world by saying jordon never played for Washington Wizard

Did I?!

Where did I say that?!

You are using the same logic and brain in "IR-allegation" too????!!!

Nobody can save you, Vysar! :(

Vysar

3rd December 2005, 12:30 AM

I don't want anyone to save me since I am my own man rather being a cry baby like you know who. People are very ignorant by not looking at the facts and blindly accepting IRs never commits a mistake.

Vysar

3rd December 2005, 12:31 AM

You know NBA history huh! Jordon actually came back from retirement played with Wazhington Wizards tried to win a title again and lost miserably.

Put that in the joke per day thread!!! :rotfl:

what you mean by this biggest joke of the year...

stranger

3rd December 2005, 12:53 AM

I dont think he TRIED to WIN a title again! :)

Not many would agree with you on this :)

Vysar

3rd December 2005, 12:54 AM

Mesaiyiale mann otavillaiyae? :)

Vysar

3rd December 2005, 12:58 AM

Do you know he donated the entire paycheck he got from playing for Wazhington Wizard to World Trade Center fund? What did IR do to Tsunami victims? scoot, nada,
Just publicized that he would donate all the profits from TIS to Tsumai victims and put it in his pocket.

stranger

3rd December 2005, 06:39 AM

well, I know much more about michael. He is a human being with weaknesses too. And my intention was not comparing him with IR.

I brought this issue up to say:

* MJ did not lose to Shaq

* IR did not lose to ARR

* MGR did not lose to RK

* or RK will not lose to Vijay!

And if I were a IR-fan, like you are, I would never ever put IR down by making an *ugly statement* like you did which is so irrelevant to the topic of discussion here :cool:

You seem to judge people easily!

Have you ever judged yourself and being ashamed of the ugly part of yourself ???!!!!

We are all cheap human beings after all and nobody is perfect including Vysar. Dont go on judge people from the rumors and allegations u learn from magazines.

It is quite possible that you got it all wrong! It is hard to pay off the debt if the accused/defendant is found innocent ! :cool:

Sanjeevi

3rd December 2005, 10:09 AM

MJ is never a egomaniac and always have good things to say about youngsters.

Every man has ego, even a beggarman has ego. Ego is not an illegal matter.

But IR on the contrary never uttered anything good about the youngsters.

Can you tell what IR told against youngsters. He is better than today's more politicians to guide youngsters.

He thinks he is the greatest and only his music is the best of the world. But the fact is he churns out mostly crap than anything TIS being an exception.

Why he think that he is the greatest? Millions of people like his music. If anybody did not like his music then definitly he won't think like that. But he did not think that he is the one and only. It is also true.

He should gracefully retire then I would think about comparing him to Ron Artest :)

Sombody also would think about comparing Bush with Bin laden. Thus Bush have to retire his post?.

ya you have rights to compare x with y. As same as IR is the only person to decide about his retirement. But he won't. Because music is like his breath.

njv

3rd December 2005, 10:10 AM

Vyasar,

Let us be a little more objective here. I too donated for TiS. I did so, not because TiS-USA asked me or TM asked me. To me, this was a new concept.., like the NPR. I liked the idea and wanted to support this project.. Thats it. I'm a big fan of IR's music, and to that effect he did'nt let me down. Thiruvasagam by IR is probably his best composition ever. So, I'm a little clueless when people say that he cheated. Can somebody substantiate please?

sudhakarg

there are two sides to a coin. we know only one side. I dont think IR will come out and say anything against what Vyasar and like minded people are saying. Financially and logistically what others are saying (i.e. IR gave copyrights to Wellgate and took money from them directly) doesnt make any sense. Also there are rumours about TIS sales in Euro. Once again when it comes to line item, it doesnt add up.

If IR really wanted to make money he could have scored 30 to 40 movies during the time he spent for TIS and made more money. Though the rumours seems to be going agains IR, bottom line is not. If money is my criteria, i would score 30-40 movies and made 10 crore than work on 1 album and make 70 lakhs.

other than this, there is nothing much to say. TIS is very nice and out of world composition for many of us. I even stoped listening to TIS after I saw the news initially, but I just simply cant avoid IR cuz his music is the only life saver for millions of us during our boring 2 hour commute or during our night support or even to sing a lullaby to your baby. This is what is different between IR and the rest. Its more than music. Its life.

rajasaranam

4th December 2005, 08:10 AM

ya you have rights to compare x with y. As same as IR is the only person to decide about his retirement. But he won't. Because music is like his breath.
Nice fitting reply to Vysar
Ithu thaan saakkunnu IR'a mothamma ozhichu katta ithu madhiri neraya peru kelambitaanga...]
I had been repeatedly saying that but for these one or two issues IR is an inseparable entity from our lives. But there are people like Vysar who cunningly disguising themselves as IR fans comment upon whatever their wild imagination can lead to and come out saying that He should have retired gracefully... Yaen Mathavangalukku Poatti korainjidumna?
Sari Retire Aayirukanumnae vachipom
Eppa senjirukanum?
ARR entry aana udanaevaa?
Athukku appuram Devar magan Hit koduthu 1992 top ten songsla 'Inji Idupazhaga' No.1 Position vantha appurama?
92-97 varaikkum continuosa kalaignan, maganathi, veera, walter vetrivel, avatharam, mogamul,Guru[malayalam] marupadiyum, Siraichaalai, ejamman, Ponnumani, Aavarampoo, naatupura paatu, Aathma madhiri innum pala super duper hits kuduthuttu ellathukkum peaka 'Kadhalukku mariyadhai' madhiri Salesyalum salaichavar illannu Prove pannathukku appurama?
Illa Athukku appuramavum Angonnu ingonna Friends, kannukkul nilavu, Barathi, Azhagi, Sethu, Solla marantha kadhai, Kaasi, julie ganapathy, Heyram, Virumaandi, pithamagan,MX, madhiri Hits aswelas melodious music kuduthathukku appurama?
Eppa Retire Aayirukanummnu precise time'a namma Vysar SIR point out panna engallukku ellam vasathiyaa irukkum :lol:
IR'oda Kadumayaina critica naan Paakra Vijayr kooda IR retire aayirukanummnu sonnathuilla. He is still expecting something better from IR on his own line of quality judgement and he feels IR is capable of doing that.
Vysar SIR Avaroda isai ingu thodarnthu isainthukondae irukkum. Ungal Velayai kavaniyungal...Ungalukku 'Mayiliragu' podhum endraal engallukku 'antha naal nyabagamum' ' Kajuraho' vum podhum

...but I just simply cant avoid IR cuz his music is the only life saver for millions of us during our boring 2 hour commute or during our night support or even to sing a lullaby to your baby. This is what is different between IR and the rest. Its more than music. Its life.
:thumbsup:

pro20035

5th December 2005, 02:01 AM

What is this nonsense about tsunami and music college aid. The overwhelming theme of this thread seems to be that TIS is incurring heavy loss. How is IR supposed to donate to tsunami when it is a big loss, as claimed by the US guys. Surely, you cant have it both ways.

I hope some of the guys here have heard about libel laws. You cant just go on accusing any person( whoever it maybe) in a deliberate attempt to tarnish his reputation, which is what people like vyasar, kavin , etc are doing. It is ur responsibility to prove that IR did something wrong. If IR decides to sue u all, u dont have any defence. So you better , either shut up all this nonsensical allegations or come up with proof. Just shouting the same lies again and again , will not make it true.

The whole project was not done in a transparent manner, right from the beginning. And IR never asked u guys to take loans from anybody( We dont even have a record of who loaned money to whom). If you got loans , then it is ur problem. It is more probable, that some of the organisers invested money in the project in the hope that it will be a big success, and that investment is being dubbed as a loan.

Just look at the available facts. Father claims the project costed 1.4 crores( we dont have details why it costed that much and what is the breakdown of the expenditure). According to TIS, they have donated 105 K dollars, which is about 50 lakhs, which means tamil mayyam and others have donated the remaining 90 lakhs. Now father claims a loss of one crore. This is only possible, only if they have not sold even a single CD. The sums just dont add up. It is easy to make a wild allegation. Any sensible person is going to ignore the wild allegations posted in this forum, unless they are proven with solid numbers and a direct link to IR . Hope somebody does it or shut up forever

Vysar

6th December 2005, 01:18 AM

I used to be IR fan but I got fed up when I heard about TIS debacle. He came to US just to encourage his fans to donate money for his prestigious project. During the release I saw no credit given to the people who worked behind the scenes to help him get his ambitious project released.

People judged every day and their speech should translate to action. Since they are public figure and they are unlike politicians. They have to watch before saying things like opening a music school and Tsunami relief etc. During the time when people are suffering he donates a diamond hand to GOD from TIS profits.

Just because I vindicate IR doesn't make me ARR fan. I listen to his music even now. I watched Rettai Val Kuruvi DVD yesterday and enjoyed Raja Raja Chozhan Naan and Kannan Vanthu Padukiran (what a composition in par with current trend I miss this IR) I would advice you all to clean your clogged mind and be practical.

LordLabakuDas

6th December 2005, 09:09 AM

Who is Shaq?? Y r u comparing him with Michael Jackson??? What is Chicago bulls? Ramarajan's latest hollywood film? Thala suthuthudaa saaami....

krish244

6th December 2005, 11:52 AM

"Chicago Bulls" & (G)Ramarajan !!! Super porutham ponga :) I also liked your id! "LordLabakuDas" :) I am sure this will bring a smile in this thread!

Guys, konjam tension'a kurainga (adhathaan seiyyarom'nu sollaadheenga :) )

thanks,

Krishnan

netfriend4u2005

6th December 2005, 01:24 PM

Vysar u r an waste.

rajasaranam

6th December 2005, 02:47 PM

Who is Shaq?? Y r u comparing him with Michael Jackson??? What is Chicago bulls? Ramarajan's latest hollywood film? Thala suthuthudaa saaami....
Welcome Back LLD :D :clap:
Where were you all these days :?:

thumburu

6th December 2005, 03:09 PM

LLD avargaLe, ippidi aadiku oru thadavaiyum amavasaikku oru thadavaiyum thalaiyai neetinaa thalai sutha thaan seiyyum .
IR new albums threadukku poi sooda oru coffee saapidunga :)

Cacaphonix

6th December 2005, 03:58 PM

thaanai thalaivar LLD-a aadi amaavaasaikku equate paNNiyadhai agila ulaga LLD sanga seyalaaLar enRa murayil vanmayaaga kaNdikkirEn. :x

annan henkela LLD vaazhga!

Sanjeevi

6th December 2005, 04:01 PM

Yaruppa athu LordLabakuDas, verum 3 post-layae famous agitaru. :lol:

Vysar

6th December 2005, 08:06 PM

Vysar u r an waste.

I believe that you fat fingered your posting

Vysar, Ir is a waste!

I agree

MusicIsLife

6th December 2005, 08:09 PM

Sanjeevi,
LLD has been posting for a very loooong time. We used to love his sense of humor from pre-hub era.
LLD,
Welcome back, it gives me relief to write something apart from Rajasarnam, who somehow finds time to post here.

Rajasarnam(RS)
Hope everything is well. Good to see u here.

Anyways coming back to the topic
I know the people who were dedicated to make this project successful here, they are doctors, and good professionals. I spoke to one of them here, and asked him several times why can't they make it a fund-raiser event. But they did not want to do that, all they wanted was a music movement, just friends/families who loved IR music to contribute to the project and in turn u dont go empty handed u do get a CD. So it does not make a difference say, Sony invests 1 million towards making of the CD, they market it and put it on the shop's, people buy it for 14$, then sony is slowly going to make it a profitable deal. Here it was different, you invest your money in it and get back what you invested, i dont think that is cheating.

Anyways one note about IR & Michael Jordan, you know why Michael came back to play in NBA, coz for the LOVE OF THE GAME, it is same with IR, His relentless love for producing MUSIC will not die and should not die, I am proud that he is one of the greatest musician from my place and I am so happy to be from that place.

Long live Music, as TV Sankarnarayan (great carnatic stalwart) would say Music Is Life.

TISK

6th December 2005, 10:13 PM

கொஞ்சம் மனசாட்சிக்கு இடம் அளித்து இந்தப் பதிவினைப் படியுங்கள்!

இங்கு யாரும் திரு.'இரா'வுக்கு எதிராகப் போர்க்கொடி தூக்கவில்லை.

உங்கள் சார்பாக, எந்த ஒரு இலாப நோக்கும் இல்லாமல் ஆரம்பித்த ஒரு முயற்சிதான் 'டிஸ்- யுஎஸ் ஏ.[TIS-USA]

ஒரு மிகச் சிறந்த இசைக்கலைஞன் தேவையின்றி பணமுதலைகளிடம் சென்று கையேந்தும் நிலையைத் தவிர்த்து, அவனது பல்லாயிரக்கணக்கான ரசிகர்களிடமிருந்தே நிதியுதவி பெற்று, அவர்களுக்காகவே, 'தன் வாழ்வின் தவம்' எனக் கருதிய இரு இசை வட்டினை, அளிக்க உதவிட எண்ணிய ஒரு சிறு ஆசைவேட்கை இது.

அதுவும் ஏறத்தாழ, நினைத்த அளவில் முடிந்து விட்ட நிலையில், மேலும் சிறப்பாக செய்ய வேண்டும் என்று 'இரா' ஆசைப்பட்ட போது, உடனடியாக முடிப்பதெற்கென, கடன் வாங்கித்தான் செய்ய முடியும் என்ற நிலை ஏற்பட்டபோது, 'அப்படியே செய்யுங்கள்; நான் பார்த்துக் கொள்கிறேன்' என்று அந்த இசை அரசன் அளித்த வாக்கையும், நம்பிக்கையையும் கொண்டே கடன் தொகை பெறப்பட்டது என்பது, கடன் அளித்த எல்லோருக்கும் நன்றாகத் தெரியும். இது பற்றிய குறிப்பினையும் இதே 'நூலில்' 2004 ஜூன், ஜூலை பதிவுகளில் காணலாம். அதுவும் ரசிகர்களைக் கருத்தில் கொண்டே செய்யப்பட்டது என்பதும் அனைவரும் அறிந்த ஒன்றுதான்.

இந்த உண்மையை 'இரா' மறுக்க முடியாது. அதற்கான சாட்சிகள் இன்னும் இங்கேதான் இருக்கிறார்கள்.

'இரா' யாரயும் மோசம் செய்துவிட்டதாகவோ, ஏமாற்றி விட்டதாகவோ-- சட்டப்படி- நான் ஒரு போதும் கூறவில்லை.

ஆனால், நவம்பரில் முடிந்த ஒரு இசை வடிவம் எப்போது எந்த நாளில், எத்தனை இடர்பாடுகளைத் தாண்டி வெளிக் கொணர முடிந்தது, அதற்காக செய்யப்பட்ட 'விட்டுகொடுத்தல்கள்' எவ்வளவு, பட்ட அவமானங்கள் எத்தனை, வாங்கிய சொற்கள் எவ்வளவு என்பதெல்லாம் தெரிய வந்தால் இத்தனை மாறுபட்ட கருத்துக்களை இங்கே சந்தித்திருக்க வேண்டிய கட்டாயம் ஏற்பட்டிருக்காது.
யாருக்காக, யாருடைய உதவியினால் இந்த முயற்சி சாத்தியமானதோ, அந்த ரசிகர்களை[என்னை அல்ல!] துச்சமென மதித்து, இலாப நோக்கில் செயல்பட்ட வேதனையில்தான் இன்னும் இருக்கிறோம்.

கடன் கொடுத்த நல்ல உள்ளங்கள் இதுவரை ஒரு நெருக்கடியும் கொடுக்க வில்லை என்ற விஷயத்தை மிக நன்றியுடன் நினைவு கூறும் இந்த நேரத்தில், அவர்களை நேரிலேயே அவமானப் படுத்திய நிலையையும் சொல்லிக் கொள்ள வேண்டி இருக்கிறது.

நான் முதலில் இருந்தே சொல்லி வந்தது போல, இந்த முயற்சி எந்த ஒரு பிற 'இரா'-வின் இசை படைப்புகளுடனுமோ, அல்லது, பிற தயாரிப்பாளர்களுடன் அவர் நடந்து கொண்ட விதமோ ஒப்புமை கொள்ளக் கூடிய ஒன்று அல்ல.

இது நடந்த விதமே தனி. இதற்கு முன்னோடியே கிடையாது, 'இரா'வின் இசை வாழ்வில்.

அந்த ஒரு நிலையில், நான் எழுதுவதினைப் புரிந்து கொள்வீர்கள் என நம்புகிறேன்.
இப்போதும் இந்தக் கடன்களை அடைப்பது ஒரு பிரச்சினையே அல்ல.

ஆனால், ஒரு இசைமேதை தன் ரசிகர்களை, தனக்காகப் பாடுபட்ட ரசிகர்களை, எப்படி நடத்தினார் என்பதை உலகம் அறிய வேண்டும் என்னும் ஒரே கடமையினால் தான் இவ்வளவும் எழுதுகிறேன்; ஏனெனில், இது உங்கள் முயற்சி.

இது பற்றி இனி பேசுவதாய் இல்லை. பேசிப் பிரயோஜனமும் இல்லை.

ஒரே ஒரு வேண்டுகோள்! இந்த எனது பதிவிற்கு தயவு செய்து பதில்மொழி அளிக்க வேண்டாம்.
இசைஞானியின் படைப்பின் பெருமை குறித்தும், திருவாசகம் இசைவட்டு எப்படி எல்லாரையும் சென்றடைய முடியும் என்பது குறித்தே இனி இந்த 'நூல்' தொடரட்டும்.

நடந்தது, நடந்தவையாக இருக்கட்டும்; இனி நடப்பவை நல்லவையாக இருக்கட்டும்.
எல்லாம் இறைவன் செயல்!!
நன்றி.

அன்புடன்,
சங்கர்குமார்

Vysar

7th December 2005, 01:29 AM

I see lot of differences between MJ and IR

1. Michael Jordon never stabbed any one's back for monetory reasons since he is already rich with wealth and people skill.

2. Michael Jordon was offered Washington Wizard co owner position which also made him to play for them.

3. Michael Jordon has done a lot to the community rather than promoting the church (temple in IRs case)alone

4. Michael Jordon is a team player and never taken credit for all the championship he won. He attributed all the success to the team (but we know who lead it)

5. When I see Jordon I see the gamesmanship

7th December 2005, 02:01 AM

Mr. Vyasar:

Do you know what "gamesmanship" is. It is not virtuous as you have meant to convey. With such blemishes u are criticizing IR! geeez!

stranger

7th December 2005, 02:10 AM

He does not know how to spell the verb, "advise" either. But he likes to give advices, always.

well, all kinds of people to make the world! :)

Vysar

7th December 2005, 02:15 AM

He does not know how to spell the verb, "advise" either. But he likes to give advices, always.

well, all kinds of people to make the world! :)

ESPN and ABC will come to you on expert opinion on NBA :lol:

Vysar

7th December 2005, 02:16 AM

Mr. Vyasar:

Do you know what "gamesmanship" is. It is not virtuous as you have meant to convey. With such blemishes u are criticizing IR! geeez!

I know it is actually opposite to IR.

njv

7th December 2005, 05:28 AM

He does not know how to spell the verb, "advise" either. But he likes to give advices, always.

well, all kinds of people to make the world! :)

Lot of people give advice. the point is who you take it from :lol: Thanks to rahul dravid 8-)

MusicIsLife

7th December 2005, 08:39 AM

Sanjeevi

7th December 2005, 09:34 AM

Sanjeevi,
LLD has been posting for a very loooong time. We used to love his sense of humor from pre-hub era.
LLD,

Oh, avara ivaru :D

Vysar

7th December 2005, 09:46 AM

He keeps his name Vyasar, but does not understand the following
1. Music
2. Tamil
3. The discussion context

So there is no point in talking to him. he does not know NBA either. He starts comparing MJ to IR and his arguments shows how much clarity he has about the TIS project. Did he read Sankar's message!!

Vanthutaryaa adutha Jalra!
Btw I didn't start comparing MJ with IR. Mr. Stranger started the whole thing. Yes I read shankars message and it gave me even more reason to remove the humble masquerade of IR.

7th December 2005, 10:51 AM

Really surprised at the crude and closed minded attacks on Vysar, reading his initial post i wanted to say "Why Saar?", but there is a good bit of truth in his words. In a vague and speculative matter like this which will never get a right answer, there is bit of truth in everyone's words - adha yaethuttu poradha vittutu why launch such absolutist attacks on contrary views? We write all kinds of stories in our semester exams to get our degrees, so why be so obsessive in a discussion forum??

BTW, joining the tumultous welcome to LLD, hip hip hurrrayyyyyyyy!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

LordLabakuDas

7th December 2005, 11:42 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome *,MIL,RS & Thumbs...cakephonix yaaru? magix'a? ..
Lets c whether i can post regularly like before...
Left/right/all other directions work in office all these days..so cudnt find time to post..now relatively free...
C~P engey? one SRM college guy died coz of ragging yesterday..i suspect his hand on that..:-)
Fighting Stop ellarum...
SIT and listen TIS,
ITS a STI(Sacred Treasure from Illayaraaja)

Cacaphonix

7th December 2005, 12:06 PM

LLD thalaivaa, thangaLin thondaradi pOdigaLil oruvan;

peeps ennum parandhaaman peyar sandha mudivu pOl mudiyum peyar kondavan;

magix, asterix (*) enRa punai peyargaLaal undhapaattu Cacaphonix enRu thangaLaai maanaseegamaaga ninaiththukkOndu peyar soottikkOndavan;

idharkku mElum thangaLukku puriya vEndum enRaal idhai thaangaL ethanayaavadhu murai padiththu theLivaakki kondeergaL enRu enni paarungaL udanE thangaLin intha kadaikkOdi seedanin peyar ninaivukku vandhu vidum.

ippadikku,
anjaanenjan annan Henkela LLD vazhi nadakkum thambi cacaphonix

LordLabakuDas

7th December 2005, 12:10 PM

is it u kozhapps?? :-) howz life? not coming back to india????

Kupps

7th December 2005, 01:48 PM

LLD please look at your inbox, I have sent you a PM :)

stranger

7th December 2005, 08:50 PM

Mr. Stranger started the whole thing.

Yeah, blame everything on Stranger now! :lol:

Stranger is the one who started comparing IR and MJ because both are soccer players! :rotfl:

MusicIsLife

7th December 2005, 09:10 PM

Magix, Kupps nice to see u guys back here..

Yes TIS is STI

Vysar

7th December 2005, 09:12 PM

Mr. Stranger started the whole thing.

Yeah, blame everything on Stranger now! :lol:

Stranger is the one who started comparing IR and MJ because both are soccer players! :rotfl:

ESPN subject matter expert Stranger,

First time in your life time you are right

IR and Michael Jackson treat their fans like a soccer ball. IR went one step above stabbing his fans back.

stranger

7th December 2005, 09:14 PM

well, I meant Michael Jordan here! :roll:

How do you mess up everything so perfectly, vysar! :shock:

Vysar

7th December 2005, 09:30 PM

oh really, Michael Jordon is a great gentleman who never disappointed his fans either in a game or his personal life. I thought once in your lifetime you are truthful but you diappointed me again.

Vysar

7th December 2005, 10:22 PM

Greatest singer Jesudaas comments on TIS.

He says IR is like his brother. He adds that he wanted to Devaram album but dropped the idea when he heard IR doing TIS. He would have appreciated if TIS has been done in our style and make the westerners listen to it. IR never invited him to sing for TIS and KJ feels may be IR wants his own glory in the efforts. KJ also feels that lot of money has been spent on the TIS project.

Read more on KJJ interview here:

http://www.kumudam.com/kumudam/071205/pg6.php

njv

7th December 2005, 11:41 PM

rajasaranam

8th December 2005, 12:58 AM

Aahaa Motha Pattalamum inga thaan Suthittu irukka :D
Ini Hub naasam thaan :twisted:
Welcome MIL Nalam Neengalum nalam ena Ninaikiraen. Adikadi vanthu poangal :)

Vysar,

What relevance has Jesudaas Interview got with this Thread ?
Now You will try to dig out every other controversial Item against IR From Tabloids to justify yourself for not being an IR fan Anymore :lol:
Even after Facing so many hardships I find Fr. Aswelas Sankarkumar still ardent fans Of IR and his music.

TISK

8th December 2005, 01:09 AM

'njv' is right! That's what he told me too!

I met with Sri.KJY in Raleigh a few months back in a concert and when I introduced myself, he expressed his desire to have a copy of TbI which I fortunately carried with me[which I usually do!! :D ]
and he personally told me that IR wanted KJY to sing at least one song but due to his [KJY] prior commitments, he could not take the offer and later heard that his son Vijay has sung a song in TbI which made him very happy and the reason he wanted to hear the CD is mainly to hear his son!!

I have no clue over the Kumudham issue!

Vysar

8th December 2005, 01:32 AM

i am not trying to raise any issue from KJJ's interview. I just wanted to present a glimpse on Kumudam interview thats all. I even started out with KJJ mentioning IR as his brother. peace to all.

MusicIsLife

8th December 2005, 02:00 AM

RS,
IR pathi ethavathu sollikittae irukaanga, but unmaya partha, ennada IR different album kodukararennu yaarukkum puriyalai, IR na tamilnadu mattum thaannu ninaikarathai vida, tamizharku mattum intha isai thattu senjatha ninaicha pothum, intha ulagathil irukkira tamizhar ellorum santhosha paduvanga. Athai vittutu "Westerners" rasikanumam (though that is a very gr8 thought and encourage to happen). namma pathi namakke theriyalai, ithule aduthavangala pathi pesaruthule nyayame illai.
So let us appreciate the music and learn about Manickavasagar and then preach to others.

I just remember one thing by Swami Vivekananda: If you want to reform the world, reform yourself, there will be one fool less to be reformed.

njv

8th December 2005, 11:34 AM

I just remember one thing by Swami Vivekananda: If you want to reform the world, reform yourself, there will be one fool less to be reformed.
Hmm... what if Gandhi decided to do that? What if Periyar decided to do that? Ep Porul Yaar Yaar Vaai ketpinum apporul meiporul kaanpatharivu - valluvar.

8th December 2005, 02:28 PM

they actually did that..once you do that you will automatically have the power to reform others..otherwise you cannot

Vysar

8th December 2005, 08:35 PM

Then IR need to reform himself and fulfil the promise he made donating money for tsunami victims and start a music college. Also help TIS-USA to settle the loan in US by conducting music nights all over the world.

rajasaranam

9th December 2005, 12:35 AM

MusicIsLife

9th December 2005, 10:12 PM

Vysar,
Enna neenga thaan ella contract-um ezhuthareengala?

RS,
Thanks. btw neenga antha Visual Studio Microsoft paatu kaeteengala. neraiya ARR paatu influence irukku.

rajasaranam

9th December 2005, 10:53 PM

MIl,

Illa Enna paatu athu Any links :?

MusicIsLife

9th December 2005, 11:52 PM

----------Sorry for the disgression-----
RS,
http://www.microsoft.com/korea/events/ready2005/vs_song.asp

ARR Music in Microsoft? topic-le link irukku.

kavin

10th December 2005, 07:00 AM

[tscii:9989e5fa8d]Excerpts from an interview by Jegath Gaspar in a Tamil TV channel 18 months ago in one of the obscure Vanakam Thamizhagam programs? Transcript from recorded interview...

Interviewers: What is the purpose of Tamil Maiyam?
Jegath Gaspar: TM has two objectives-
One- Tamil literature has not attained the same status as the English literary works by Shakespeare, Wordsworth, and (Stephen Shwartz!). And that is because Tamil literature has not presented itself in a palatable form for the West. While we, like fools, not only let the West rule us but also take the trouble to learn English and become aware of how great their literature is. (Is he setting a standard for Tamil culture based on the West? If so, why is he demeaning Tamil culture?)
Two- there is an inferiority complex in Tamilians. TM have plans for a simple approach to eradicate this evil among tamilians! And as a first step we thought of presenting Thiruvaasagam in SYMPHONY format so that the WEST will look at us and say --- ah ha!! --- Even tamilians can do a SYMPHONY! And through this, we hope to have lots of Tamil hostels all over the Western world like the YMCA hostels, so that tamilians can stay in the west and find out how to appreciate the West and forget their own identity!!!

Interviewer: But TM is currently an organisation only in Tamil Nadu!?

Jegath Gaspar: Well…. Yes TM is only in TN right now. But in two weeks time, Dr Sankar Kumar has plans and (thittangal) to start TM in USA. (HAHAHA HAAAA HAHAHA). TM is going to have wings! All over the world – USA is the world! (HAHAHA HAAAA HAHAHA)

And then he talks about why the tamilians are so emotion driven people rather than like the research oriented Singapore Government who invest 1000 crores for R&D! …..HAAAA HAHAHAHA

He then praises the Chinese Government…. who are apparently doing better than us. Shall we have their tanks firing at us just because we want democratic rights? HAHAHA HAAAA HAHAHA!!!

More later…..
[/tscii:9989e5fa8d]

njv

10th December 2005, 09:24 AM

TISK

10th December 2005, 10:01 AM

Dear Mr. 'kavin',
I see your desperate attempts to drag us in to say something but I refrain from doing so as it will only help feeding your ugly intentions. Have fun and enjoy!
And, if you have time, send a copy to Fr. and IR also. May be they can help you!
Thanks!

kavin

10th December 2005, 06:32 PM

njv

10th December 2005, 09:46 PM

Dear Mr TISK,

Please continue to refrain from yielding to my 'desperate attempts'. Your response is not what I want. You have said enough. I hope you don't think my 'ugly intentions' are similar to IR's!!!

Truth is a bitter pill sometimes.

I hope this is the last time we address eachother.

Kavin

TISK put in his personal time, money (that you can even imagine) and undivided attention to distribute TIS to folks in USA.

All I can say is, people who got involved in TIS, i.e. Father, TISK and like minded people, has no business knowledge and that led to unmanagable expenses and the reason why we are discussing about this nonsense.

ezy0265

11th December 2005, 04:25 PM

njv and others in similar wavelength!

How come you keep mentioning things here as if they are absolute truths. We are not going to accept nonsensical accusations towards IR in the first place. TISK, Father and all have not been transparent from the very beginning and no one really knows what had happened and who had profitted or lost from these deals. Obviously these people came in with an investment concept and not on donation basis. If it had been profitable I am sure non will be making any announcement about that here. Anyway who is to believe that it is not profitable and that people have lost money????

If they had all come into this project without any selfish agendas I am sure all these irritating discussions would not even have started......

njv

11th December 2005, 11:05 PM

njv and others in similar wavelength!
ezy

i am neither supporting TISK/TM/Father nor supporting IR. To me both of them made big mistake and the biggest by Father/TM/TISK because they have no clue about CD market and invested this much money. I can only pity them but at the same time I cant tolerate people blaming TISK/TM/Father either.

All I am trying to say is PLEASE dont blame or throw harsh words against TISK/Father. They are not blaming IR for what happened. They are just telling that they didnt recover their money back to fullfil their commitments.

This whole TIS issue may be financial loss for Father and TISK, which they can overcome in due course of time, but IR lost his reputation among his fans (atleast a few of them), and IR will never be able to come out of it.

jml

11th December 2005, 11:17 PM

I have no idea about what happened, so I cant say anything about the controversy. But I have one question. Why didnt IR himself produce what he terms as his primary achievement in life? With more than 900 films to his credit, it is hard to imagine that he would not be in a position to invest the 1.5 Crore from his own money.

kamal133

13th December 2005, 02:34 AM

<<<<<<<
All I am trying to say is PLEASE dont blame or throw harsh words against TISK/Father. They are not blaming IR for what happened. They are just telling that they didnt recover their money back to fullfil their commitments
>>>>>>>>
njv,
please read the earlier post by TISK. They are blaming IR for not helping them out, which i beleive is false accusation.

sudhakarg

14th December 2005, 02:39 AM

njv,

It does not appear that the father is only worried about the lack of sales, and does not have anything "against" IR. When I read this message of his in http://www.tis-usa.com/blog/index.html, there is definitely a finger-pointing to IR.

njv

14th December 2005, 05:49 PM

sudhakarg and all

all i am saying is IR put himself in a place where no one will bother about his next such album. If IR comes to USA again and ask for donation again, he wont be able to collect more than a dollar.

in addition, TISK and similar like minded people wont volunteer. they have had enough. look at the message posted - TIS-USA was "offered" the DVDs and CDs at cost price - what a shame.

TISK/TIS-USA

3000 CDs/DVDs in USA is a great number. Since the introduction of mohankumars and tamilmp3 and tamilbeat and other similar sites, tamil CD/DVD sales in USA is very low and recently it is NONE, so no one is bothered about bringing Tamil CDs to USA. From that aspect 3000 CDs/DVDs sold by you guys - with out any wholesale/retail experience is pretty amazing. I can tell you, even if Sony/Saregama released this CD/DVD, they wouldnt have sold this much CD, so great job for what its worth.

kamal133

15th December 2005, 01:53 AM

njv

15th December 2005, 08:45 AM

<<<<
all i am saying is IR put himself in a place where no one will bother about his next such album. If IR comes to USA again and ask for donation again, he wont be able to collect more than a dollar
>>>>
This is because both TISK and Father are trying create bad picture about IR. See, it worked on you...?

If that was their intentions, they could have done it easily by giving interviews in few magazines. They kept quite, until you guys started "speculating" and pulling his mouth. No point in talking to you guys.

vramesh

17th December 2005, 03:45 PM

TISK,
Are u the same Sankarakumar who wrote this:
http://tinyurl.com/asw2l

:shock: :shock:

kavin

18th December 2005, 05:00 AM

[tscii:7f97a748c8]Just for the sake of the pressure to keep this promise for 'more later..' !!!

Who is this, 'SeriousThisTime', please..please contact me.

Those of you reading this for the first time.... this is part of a debate that took place at the time(18 months ago) of active campaign for loans and also a campaign to part with your precious money!!! The time even before the first recording of TIS in Budapest!!!

Cut and Paste from archives of TFMPage

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

• From: SeriosThisTime (@ 192.193.221.149) on: Thu Jul 8 19:06:43 EDT 2004

Isaiosai,
Why do you think that my questions are not valid?. Blind faith on whom?. I have great respect for IR and that is the reason I gave my small contribution , not based on any blind faith on any one working on this project. Every second message in this thread is for asking money and the moment I ask some genuine questions, what I am getting back is some irritated answers and top of that a ( I am holier than you) message from you.

Infact after my repeated questions, only Kupps managed to shed some light on the issues and I am not even sure, what is his involvement in the project. TIS project people managed to give only elusive answers. So far we do not even know who is going to own the audio rights for this project.

This is what my understading on this process. Correct me, where I am getting it wrong.

Tamil Mayam is the sponser of the project. SSSA and others are working in US to get funds for the project. There might be some loans borrowed for the project, but we do not know ( may be not for every one), who are they, and how much. Once the project is finished, Tamil mayyam or other interested parties who have put down money will get the rights for selling and distributing and will be the primary beneficiar from the proceedings. There might be other small interested parties, who might be part the distribution and beneficiar to the project.

As for the public funding goes, the theme is, help us if you want to help IR and to speard the message of ThiruVasakam to the world. We want to call it as a public project, but basically it is a private project, who do not have ( or want to) funds for the project. We do not know you, and you may not know us, but please write a check to TIS. We will make sure that money goes to the project. But please do not ask questions, how we are going to do this. We can not answer that, and that is not important, but please contribute.

I have talked to few people about this project, and these are the questions, they asked me. When I was in the NY meeting, at least the folks with me did not contribute, because they are not sure, whether the whole project is for non-profit basis or not. There might be so many other people, who would be willing to contribute, if there is a clear cut explanation on this. May be the web site is the best place.

To answer the criticizm that I am not contributing any postive for the project, I am trying to get this questions cleared so that any person who wants to help this project but doubting the process, will be inclined to write that check after finding right answers here. This is one of the best places for people to find out about the project. I feel that any answers to my question to be answerd here, not in a personal email.

Look, I want this to succeed for the Sake of IR. Let's hope that this will

__________________________________________________ __________________________
__>>>>>>>>>> END OF CUT AND PASTE<<<<____

from Kavin

Thanks to 'seriousthistime' for the foresight!!!
[/tscii:7f97a748c8]

20th December 2005, 04:18 AM

An English Translation of Thiruvaasagam:
http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/pub/pm0094/tvcpope1.html

app_engine

3rd January 2006, 11:56 PM

http://dinamalar.com/2006jan01varamalar/p4.asp

another vambu...

umaramesh

4th January 2006, 10:43 AM

Hi
After the release TIS I heard that YG. Mahendran planning for THIRUPAVAI with IR. Any one have update on this?
I think this is right time that IR should give statement from his side at least for the sake of his fans.

ramesh

njv

4th January 2006, 10:55 PM

-deleted-

vijayr

23rd January 2006, 11:06 PM

So now IR thinks his own fans have indulged in unintentional piracy and have not increased the TIS sales
http://www.raaja.com/maestros_desk.html

some of the guys over at the IR yahoo fans club are already upset about this. Either IR has been misinformed by circles around him or further clarification is awaited from him. I hope he doesnt lose whatever little fan base he has now.

multinamatheyan

24th January 2006, 10:20 PM

vijayr

May be this is an attempt by the Rajangham people to feel out how much backlash there is over the TiS fiasco.

vijayr

24th January 2006, 11:26 PM

multi, no it isnt. Its a confirmed letter from IR himself. Atleast thats what they claim. Further clarification is supposedly going to be made.

rajdes

25th January 2006, 11:51 AM

"Either IR has been misinformed by circles around him or further clarification is awaited from him"
1. "further clarification " - Like what vijay? And why should this lose him fan base? Please elaborate.
2. Are you implying that
a) TiS had Low Sales due to inherent lack of quality? I'm sure not.
or
b) That IR is responsible for low sales of TiS. If so , how?
or
c) That IR knows that his actions are responsible for low sales of TiS but he is trying to shift blame to fans? I'm sure even you, with your low esteem of IR's honesty(if my perception is wrong, dont bother refuting this - for all I know it may be just my perception that you dont think IR is very honest but dont bother refuting this), wouldn't believe that.Or would you? And so, if yes, what actions of IR were responsible for low sales of TiS?
or
d) Are you imlying that it is entirely untrue that IR fans themselves have made unauthorised copies and that may have led to reduced opportunities for orignal CD to sell?AQnd that it is a figment of iR's imagination?

And another question, what makes you think his fan base is little? Very curious to know that. And who has a bigger fan base?
FYI, I wouldnt stop being an IR fan just because he slammed people who he thinks pirated his original work. Hey, I didnt pirate so his statement hardly bothers me. If it does bother someone, oh!oh!boy, did that someone actually pirate and so guilty conscience? If that someone didnt pirate, why would he/she fret over a statement not addressed at him but at pirates - so much so that he would stop being a fan?

I hope you answer these questions directly without side-stepping. Most of them are YES or NO, I think. Ofcourse you have the answer of not answering or even sidestepping but that would only make you another of the ordinary tfm-forumers who come in and make random comments without any convincing rationale. Iam sure you dont belong to that group ;-)

jaiganes

25th January 2006, 03:48 PM

I sent out a mail to the admin id given in the letter and said that I would buy original CDs/Tapes if IR comes out with another project like TiS. I wasn't offended by either the tone or the content of the letter. I know many fans of IR who bought CDs to be gifted to their pals and also fans who copied TiS to iPod and circulated in an ill informed measure to 'ppularize' it. They were purely misinformed and the letter simply insisted that they were 'misinformed fans' who out of the love of introducing their friends to IR's music had done so. So the letter didn't even assume that fans copied illegally. Actually the fair use clause makes it perfectly legal to copy music from a CD to computer even going by stringent US laws!!!!
However fans of IR didn't ditch him as VijayR eagerly expected, they simly created a new mail ID where request for new projects like TiS were collected to be communicated to IR!!! I as a fan was disappointed at TiS not being a gigantic success like other contemporary albums, film albums, however reconciled to the fact that I rediscovered Thiruvaasagam and its inner meaning through IR's mellifluous music. So i have no complaints.
I guess that any fan of IR must be feeling the same way!!(My guess..)
So any day....
Kurai ondrum Illai...

genesis

25th January 2006, 07:49 PM

" TiS had Low Sales due to inherent lack of quality?

Thats true. One of my friend (IR Fan/Supporter) had bought TiS CD, and I asked him to make me a copy. He refused and told me buy one. I asked him to play it for me once. After one listening, I told him... "Dont waste a CD".

Now... You IR fanatics may please start questioning my sanity and knowledge about music. For me IRs greatest music means it was recorded before 1988.

vijayr

25th January 2006, 09:17 PM

rajdes, there you go again throwing a bunch of questions. I get the feeling you are easily irked about this issue but dont want to admit it though :-)

Anyways, further clarification from IR himself is expected as mentioned by one of the raajangam team members. I didnt ask for it. Clarification probably as to how and why IR thinks its his fans who did piracy or why the letter at this time after the sales supposedly reached a record. This was because a few IR fans there in that yahoo club seemed a little upset and they worked their tails off for this project.I just mentioned their reaction here thats all. Hope its clear.

and as for your second question, I am not implying anything. I just posted a link, thats all. I didnt even know that the sales was low. I thought it set a record the first few weeks. But If some of those guys feel upset and require clarification then it isnt good news, is it? I dont know if they feel guilty as you implied or if they just feel upset that instead of IR thanking them for their efforts for whatever TIS sales has happened so far, he is accusing them first for piracy. Personally, after all that has happened I didnt feel much either way. So I am not eagerly waiting for any clarification myself in this regard. This is a minor issue compared to what transpired earlier. As for his fan base, you know what kind of market he has now in TFM. Thats what I was talking about. Especially the youth. He is not getting any new fans. So let him not atleast lose the older ones over a needless generalization. After all, there were many guys who refused to download or copy or buy anything but legal CDs.

vijayr

25th January 2006, 10:59 PM

"I hope you answer these questions directly without side-stepping."

since that discussion we have had on MSV songs good/bad ratio, you have been only asking questions as soon as I make apost, I have provided relevant answers with facts(whenever possible) and then you wont be found in that thread for several days. And then you keep throwing this word "side-stepping".

rprasad

26th January 2006, 12:17 AM

Vijay, Read the letter carefully IR does thank his fans for their support(he may not have explicitly thanked them for sales). As for your statement that "you just posted a link", well you also posted a couple of statements along with it that seemed an effort to try to make this a major issue. This is what irks people like Rajdes and others. If you did not care for whatever happend , you should have just posted the link and kept quiet without adding statements about some Yahoo fans being upset and how Ir might lose his fan base because of this. you seem to be more inclined to trust some Yahoo fans than trust IR. He must have some sources otherwise why would he post this letter?( we know not all are making copies but there must be some about whom we do not know) Try to avoid making any statments before you know all the facts
As for Ir's fan base not getting new fans, well just because he does not have a market in TFM right now does not mean the youth are not his fans . They have plenty of good stuff to listen from IR's hits which are timeless. Again Generations keep moving forward and will always be more inclined to listen to what is currently popular there today. But that does not mean they do not admire IR's work. Again Youth is a broad category, i know from personal experience people aged in late 20's (if you consider them youth) are fans of IR even today ,infact a lot of them. so there are plenty of fans out there for IR. you do not have to worry about losing fans based on a letter which was not in the least offensive to any fan.

vijayr

26th January 2006, 02:26 AM

"you seem to be more inclined to trust some Yahoo fans than trust IR."

rprasad, in case you didnt know they are not just "some yahoo fans". Many of them worked their tails off for this project and a couple of them maintain that site from where I got that link.
"well you also posted a couple of statements along with it that seemed an effort to try to make this a major issue"

thats just your perception. I posted the link and my comments about it, thats all. To me it seemed like there was a generalization, when a very few probably did it. What is the percentage contributed by IR fans to the overall piracy?
And I clearly said this is a minor issue, although I didnt say that I didnt care about it all like you wrongly quoted. You have got it all wrong. Read posts carefully.

rprasad

26th January 2006, 05:04 AM

Vijay, again do you have proof that only a few fans have done piracy? If you don't then you are also assuming facts and generalizing on the other extreme view. Let us not jump to conclusions. If you think some Fans have worked hard for this project that is fine IR has already expressed his thanks. Just because they have worked their tails off for this project does not mean their views become more important in this matter than IR's, IR being the main entity and the composer has much to lose because of this piracy and hence has more concern.The hardworking ones need not feel any offence as they have not done anything wrong.You said these fans were upset about this letter, imagine how upset IR must have been when he got the information relating to piracy among his fans.Infact for him to come out with this kind of letter and commitment to non piracy requests, it must have been really upsetting for him. did you think about that? I am not sure how many fans IR has and whom is he referring to so before we jump the gun and start assuming things let us wait for any clarifications that they are supposed to provide(oh you told that you are not interested in this either). There is no reason for IR to baselessly make this allegation unless he has some information relating to it. All he is asking for is commitment to non piracy and the genuine fans(hardworking ones) should have no problems providing that. If you think people would stop being fans of his based on this then i don' think they are real IR fans.

vijayr

26th January 2006, 05:42 AM

I said there were some fans who got a little upset, because the tone of the letter was generalizing things and not acknowledging that many fans had bought multiple CDs themselves and insisted on buying only original CDs.If you think the fans shouldnt be upset or that makes them lesser fans, thats your opinion. If he had thanked those who had bought multiple CDs first and then proceeded to criticize the unintentional piracy it would have softened things a bit. The only clarification IR has made at this point is that his mail was addressed only to those amongst his fans who might have done this. Apparently he realized that his earlier message was generalizing things, and he has corrected it. He has also acknowledged the fact that many fans bought multiple CDs too, which he didnt earlier. But apart from that no word on the piracy itself and to what extent the damage was done by the fans and so on.

jaiganes

26th January 2006, 07:37 AM

this is all much ado about nothing Vijay!
As far as genesis's comment on TiS is concerned, it is his opinion. I too don't like some works hailed as master pieces. Just because I dont doesnt make them any less. I played TiS in my car and the person who drives my car, a kannadiga was so impressed with the quality of music. i have found that TiS music by itself has a vibration which reaches out to all. It is finally the mental conditioning of the viewer, belief system etc., that will shape the initial reactions of the listener. If one wishes to be patient , then one can find deep moments of joy buried within.

app_engine

26th January 2006, 09:36 PM

http://dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=235797&disdate=1/26/2006

End of one controversy...

multinamatheyan

26th January 2006, 10:48 PM

app engine,

Good ending, but wrong controversy:-)

jaiganes

27th January 2006, 09:37 AM

Saw the Republic day programme on IR in Jaya TV.
I have recollected some thoughts in my blog -Silence Rocks (http://silencerocks.blogspot.com)

rajdes

27th January 2006, 12:04 PM

vijay, the reason I ask questions rather than get irked is simply because I want to know what you really think rather than interpreting myself from the statement you made. I am not interested in having an argument just for the sake of it or for scoring ego points. You made a certain statement. It could have been interpreted as rprasad eventually did. But I was wise enough to recognise that you might have meant it differently. So I asked questions so that I can understand what you really meant before actually trying to present an opposite point of view. In other words, instead of rushing to assume something you said meant something I thought it meant, I was trying to ascertain what you really meant. In other words, as a debate, I was keeping the debate purely on the issue. Ofcourse, you would interpret that as "he got irked", wouldnt you? You would bring in my personal character and behaviour and stuff, right. You would make assumptions that I got irked, right?
Ask yourself one question - why does your mind always attack the person rather than the points he makes? You could have answered my questions straight but you chose to make a personal statement on my "state of mind" - as though you have a microphone and a bugging device installed in my mind :-) See what I mean? For the record, I didnt get irked nor I am now inspite your personal attacks. Hey, been there done that for years now vijay.

As for the past, I dont think I have not answered your points in any issue we had a discussion before. Maybe the MSV issue but the truth is I get my peak periods and slack periods at work. I initiate debates during my slack periods, then lose track during peak periods,a nd then I cant find the link(I am lousy at finding the tfm old threads). You are welcome to open those links and we can discuss whenever we are both available. (Oh! Boy! Arent you good at ferreting out those links!)
Infact, you didnt answer me in the Hariharan issue when I put a couple of pointed questions at you. I ignored it because it is not my life's mission to make sure you answer my questions and nor is it my tendency to bring that up when we are discussing a different issue.
I would say one thing - things would be a lot more saner if we just discussed the issue all the time - like I said before once in kavin's context, "irrespective of kavin's credentials, can some one answer his questions?" Now, that is always my aim - to keep the focus on the issues rather than personalities and vijay, you can ask yourself if you arent the opposite.
"epporul yaar yaar vai ketpinum, apporul mei porul kaanbadharivu".

So, again, In my opinion, if only you could stick to the issue at hand rather than a personal discussion of hubbers involved, a lot of discussions would be much saner. As a senior hubber, it is again my opinion that you have a bigger responsibility towards this than other johnny-come-latelys. Rest is left to you.

I thought thrice before hitting post because, contrary to my policy, I have discussed you personally here. But that is in the hope that you see your posts from a different perspective - that of an impartial observer. You are welcome to analyse it or ignore it, ofcourse. This is the last time I am discussing anyone perosnally here. And yes, you can always get back with whatever inadequacies you perceive in my opinions, statements and intent as you perceive my posts. I will definitely consider the merit in those arguments before accepting/ignoring them. Hey, my ego is not at stake here. My aim in coming to this forum is to udnerstand TFM and TFM-related issues from various perspectives and try to put across my view to those views which I find as flawed. It is sickening to see when a discussion gets hijacked into "you said this on that day" ,"you are a so-and-so" etc and then pages of accusations and counter accusations. I dont think anyone other than the principals involved read these long posts(Including this one).
Sad to say, vijayr, much in counter to my intuition, you have become a part of this in the last few months. In other words, my evaluation of vijayr as a debater and a hubber post-2004 is the same as vijayr's evaluation of IR post-90's. Drop in standards. Sad, but I have a right to my opinion, dont I?

vijayr

27th January 2006, 10:29 PM

rajdes, just saying that you sound irked doesnt make it personal. When you or others say that I am biased or question whether I have a poor opinion of IR's honesty etc. then can I say that your are being personal too? After all the discussion should be about him and his works and not about how biased or unbiased or what kind of opinions I have towards IR etc. That is being personal too, if you ask me. I posted a link and made a couple of my personal observations and you immediately started listing countless interpretations and asking me to clarify each one. Frankly, I didnt think you could come up with so many interpretations for what I wrote.
I would say the same to you. Take my points as they are. Why do you care what state of mind I am in or what opinion I hold of IR etc. or whether I am biased against him etc. or not? It seems like you are too curious at times to really get into my mind and know what I feel about TIS,IR etc. Thats getting personal too, isnt it? We need to draw a line somewhere

"Infact, you didnt answer me in the Hariharan issue when I put a couple of pointed questions at you'

which issue? related to his singing in that live concert? I answered someone else in that thread and had included my thoughts on HH. I laid it out crystal clear.

Second, I dont believe in all this senior hubber-more responsibility stuff etc. I visit this site just like I visit other music forums, sites etc. There is no seniority in cyberspace. I can understand if I was some sort of moderator myself in this hub, but Im am not.

another thing you dont understand is, you shoot questions at me, about what I actually think of someone and when I reply, some other casual passer-by butts in and throws his stuff at me and it goes off in a different direction every time. So I would suggest that if you really need to truly know what I am thinking you could have always sent a PM or an email rather than shooting questions off here which serves as bait for few other trouble makers in this thread. Hope you realize that.

"It is sickening to see when a discussion gets hijacked into "you said this on that day" ,"you are a so-and-so" etc and then pages of accusations and counter accusations."

yeah, but who initiates it? :-) I have always been on the defensive end of it.

as far as my standards of posting/debating or whatever I am who I am. I dont worry about it. The level/intensity of my arguments is heavily dependent on who I am arguing with it. So if you think there is a perceivable drop in my standards you probably need to take a look around and see the kind of crowd these days in DF that I am dealing with at times. And some of these guys with whom I argued in the recent past happen to be so-called veteran hubbers too. The fact that you have addressed your concern of debating standards only to me and not to them, shows that you have probably given up on them already :-) Maybe the best way is for me to ignore most of these guys and limit my debates to just one or two of you guys. But that would ultimately mean giving up on DF itself, like a few others whom I know did. I am not quite there yet.

jaiganes

28th January 2006, 07:10 AM

Letting Vijay and rajdes debate continue, let me recount something else. Yesterday, I happened to see a 30 minute clip of IR's speech at JayaKanthan's Felicitation for Jnanpeet award. It was a very good free flowing speech laid with humorous and musical quotes , thirukkurals , Bharathiyar poems. The anecdotes on his elder brother Pavalar Varadharajan and closing with an explanation for his shift from atheism to theism at Moogambiga temple at Kollur and finally reciting a venba he wrote on JK. Totally fluent and free speech no holds barred from IR.

rajdes

30th January 2006, 01:03 PM

vijay, yes - obviously, i wouldnt bother with other guys - as i said, i take an argument/debate up only when i think i am assured(relatively speaking) of a intelligent counter-perspective. after all, one has one's commitments outside cyberspace taking up 24 hrs literally and the only reason to come to a forum like this is to enrich one's understanding.
When you relentlessly bring up this thing about IR and his fans, one wonders why?!! If you feel thats prying into your mind, well, what can I say - I am still curious what makes one puruse IR's 'failings' without tiring('cos what is the need to revive this thread and throw it open to IR-baiters)!So I will probably PM you(though I havent used tht feature often so it doesnt come to my mind automatically to do that - a bit of a conservative , I am, and I still post in the old DF style from this edit window in the bottom of the page because I havent really embraced the DF changes so that thought of sending PM didnt occur to me(now dont relate that to my musical taste :-).

Well, the causal passers-by taking potshots thing also didnt really strike me because I generally ignore posts which contain personal abuse - no point discussing with those guys . Well, if that sort of thing bothers you, well, maybe , I can understand your reservations in discussing your reasons here.
I think without giving up on the DF, one could ignore the trouble makers but hey, if you have the time, why do I complain?:-)
Regarding your debating standards, I said that only because I genuinely admired the debating skills you displayed, irrespective of whether I agreed with your point or not. So, as a fan, it IS disappointing when people around you manage to bring you down to the same level as they.
Just a thought, suppose we cornered IR and accused him of "drop in standards" and suppose he turns around and says "yeah, but look at the standards around me , look at the directors who come to me. Some of them veterans like BM,, look at the kind of movies they are making now. so there." Suppose?

rajdes

30th January 2006, 01:10 PM

jaigens, yeah, I have heard that speech, almost an IR unplugged sssion, albeit not in direct relation to hi smusic. Know exactly what you mean, though he did reuse some of his praise on Jayakanthan, comparing him to other literary giants of the past in the Vaali felicitation. It was just ctrl-c, ctrl-v, replace JK by Vaali :-)

vijayr

30th January 2006, 09:45 PM

"'cos what is the need to revive this thread and throw it open"
rajdes, what I posted earlier, the link, was related to TIS and thats the reason I did so. And it was a new development, albeit not a one that I liked too much. Plus it was addressed to his fans, some of whom here might have missed it. A few people over at the yahoo club were still upset over it and they constitute the "active" fan base- those who really worked their tails off on this. I thought this was serious.

"I think without giving up on the DF, one could ignore the trouble makers but hey,"

true but some of the "trouble makers" happened to be regular DFers in the case of the TIS issue, against whom I had to constantly defend my points alone and hence to you it might have appeared that I was "relentless". Also, at that time, I probably might have had more time on my hands :-)

"suppose we cornered IR and accused him of "drop in standards" and suppose he turns around and says "yeah, but look at the standards around me , look at the directors who come to me. Some of them veterans like BM,, look at the kind of movies they are making now. so there." Suppose?"

Look how far you are stretching things :-)
IR gets paid to do his job. If he is satisfied with the product that he puts forth and consequently the lesser pay/market value that he gets right now compared to say 15 years back, then as fans we cant do much about it, can we? (and in fact BM was upset it seems that his recent movie wasnt received well, so he seems to think high of his product) BTW, I dont consider it as an "accusation", merely an observation on the standards of his music(and a subjective one at that) laced with angst. But to some, it could come across as an accusation, especially when they still feel that his current music is impeccable. And hence the debates will go on..

tmrrmt

31st January 2006, 12:28 AM

Hi - where can I get to read good reviews of HOW TO NAME IT ? and NOTHING BUT WIND online ?

kiru

31st January 2006, 01:46 PM

I dont think it is a good idea by IR to talk about piracy now. Earlier, when raajangahm started, he made many of the organizers take down the huge collection of real audio songs they had setup online. That time I did not doubt his sincerity. Now I do reasons -
1. It sounds like an excuse to back up the TIS publishers claim of selling only few CDs
2. An attempt to gauge the interest in the fan base after the TIS controversary.
3. A real attempt in vain to deny why this work did not meet with that much commercial as he would have liked it.
Anyways, I could have been mistaken on all three counts (as I am still getting over his handling of things with TIS :-) )
BTW, the next non-film album from IR, will be better in quality/technicality than TIS for sure, but I am certain it will sell even lesser than TIS. I dont think the fan base has the same level of enthusiasm and commitment as before.

cry_sandiego

1st February 2006, 10:01 AM

I dont think the fan base has the same level of enthusiasm and commitment as before.

Dear Kiru, Just curious..what makes you think so. are you speaking for yourself or for the entire IR "music" fan community.. how are you able to guage pulse of a whole group..

Cheers
MSK

multinamatheyan

1st February 2006, 09:56 PM

MSK

oru paanai sotrukku oru soru patham :-)

Kiru is 'oru soru'. There is a pot full of them

cry_sandiego

1st February 2006, 10:21 PM

M Matheyan,

But there are thousands of different pots altogether :-)

it's a good "Pazhamozhi" , but do not think it's a good analogy here..

Cheers
MSK

multinamatheyan

1st February 2006, 11:49 PM

MSK

So I guess you're saying 'poonai kanna moodina ulagam irundidaathu' :-)

cry_sandiego

2nd February 2006, 04:46 AM

MM,

Kaivasam neraya Pazhamozhi vachirukeenga pollirukku..:-))

No i did not mean that poonai kannai moodina ..... Neenga enna munndai kumudam Arasu pathilkal'la work panneeengala ..ippadi sandai mootti vidareenga.. Muthaleya Kiru en Mael kobama irukaar... Neenga Vera.. just kiddin.

Innum neraya PM sollungalaen !. Quite Interesting..

Cheers
MSK

Vysar

2nd February 2006, 06:32 PM

"thirudan Thanae Thirunthavittaal thiruttai ozhikka mudiyathu" IR's quote.

Vysar

10th February 2006, 02:26 AM

multinamatheyan

10th February 2006, 03:31 AM

Vysar,

Does 'pre-order' necessarily mean 'money up front'?

I don't think so. If so I will be 'soodu kanda poonai' :-)

kiru

10th February 2006, 08:29 AM

Now he wants money upfront.

"Rusi Kanda Punai"

05.02.2006 Ilaiyaraaja addresses his fans...

My dear fans

I am thinking of a new project. Before going into details, I wish to talk to my fans about something... Because the financial aspect has become very important to create, the quantity of pre-order is important for me to decide about the project.

Greetings

Ilaiyaraaja

"Pillaiyai Killi Vittu Thotilai Adukirathu" Ithuthano

02.02.2006 Ilaiyaraaja addresses his fans...

My dear fans

I never meant to hurt the feelings of my fans. I only tried to convey my feelings to those who made copies of Thiruvasagam audio CD. If my fans have not copied, then they need not worry about it.

Thank you for your email promises.

With love and greetings.

Ilaiyaraaja

http://www.raaja.com/maestros_desk.html

Friends, I am telling you IR is losing the confidence with his fan base...The confidence that was there with TIS, ie. it could be made just with donated money is lacking now..He thinks just pre-order is good now . What a miscalculation/mistake by IR on the TIS finance handling !!!!

(MSK, I am not angry with you. I still enjoy IR's songs, maybe more of the film variety than the devotional ones..My opinion of his skills ..ie. he is a genius with music still remains)

rajdes

10th February 2006, 12:48 PM

Well, TiS handling was wrong so IR 'learns' from his mistake, and goes the pre-order way. But, ofcourse, we should not let him do that right? we should taunt him as losing confidence in fan-base, right?
:-)
Vendaadha marumagal kai patta kutham kaal patta kutham :-)
(laagic saar, laagic)

Vysar

10th February 2006, 10:26 PM

Pala Naal Thirudan Orun Naal Agapaduvaan! He is a very money minded person. He lost all the good rapports to Kollywood elite group. He is a genius agreed but it should not be proved on someones monetary loss.

sudhakarg

11th February 2006, 11:52 PM

Vyasar,

Are we all ready to pay for his "genius" work? Are we not very money minded? paNam dominate paNNum kaalam idhu. If Raaja is not an exception to it, so be it. Why do we expect him to be? Raaja would be well aware that recording companies are ready to jump on his works and make millions out of it. That could've been the only reason why he ventured into this novel idea of making a publicly funded project. It is rather unfortunate that even some of his die-hard fans have taken the "guilty under proven innocent stance".

TISK

13th February 2006, 11:28 PM

Mr. 'sudhakarg's' reply is interesting.
If that is so, one should go for a 'privately funded project and not a 'publicly funded one'.
If it is publicly funded, then the proceeds must also be shared publicly and not by one person.
It amounts to to sucking the public to make one's profit.

14th February 2006, 01:24 AM

njv

14th February 2006, 01:52 AM

If also IR is indeed just "money minded", he would have done anything to get back with Manirathnam or Bharatiraja or KBalachander. I cannot agree that Raja is driven by money. He definitely may be driven by what someone else may claim as inflated valuation of his work but to me the fact that he did not lower his pride to get back with MR, BR, KB is eveidence enough that he is not driven by money.

I just went to India and one IR fanatic showed me an article that came in Vikatan during Iruvar time where IR rejected MR despite his many pathetic attempts. IR is definitely not money minded, but the whole TIS is a very grey (or black) area and like you said, he is "controlled" by some external force.

app_engine

14th February 2006, 02:10 AM

"It amounts to to sucking the public to make one's profit."

Very strong statement in TiS context:-), considering that

a) public 'DONATED' for a devotional album (and hence do not have any claim on money thereafter unless the purpose is not achieved or there has been a large scale malpractice / fraud with the public money itself - both are untrue in TiS' case)

and

b) the artiste delivered what is expected of him - i.e. to produce and release a devotional album - in other words the purpose for which the public donated has been accomplished.

I definitely sympathise with the "co-producers" and also the "volunteers" and agree that they have probably been 'sucked to one's profit':-(

However, the "public", by and large, have not been given a bad deal...IMHO...

Vysar

14th February 2006, 02:24 AM

I watched the AIE program on DVD, Bharathi Raja claims that IR has lot of ego and thats what saves him from all the troubles. IR may be feeling that he lost out of the race that someone from south won internationally. He trying to catch up but fails in every step of the way. But he has been successful in driving his fans away by making false statements about piracy.

kiru

14th February 2006, 09:00 AM

app_engine, I dont know whether it is just your or somebody else also had a similar opinion. Frankly, I guess you guys have totally a distorted view of Intellectual Property rights work. If you created IP under the salary or using the resources of an organization, that organization owns it. If you work in a company and you came up with an idea using company time/resources, it belongs to the company. Similarly, TIS rights should lie with the non-profit that funded it. Anyways, I dont want to go there again. Just that TISK mentioned this I had to reiterate this point.
Earlier, I was not-taunting (to rajdes) or being negative, I cant but help observe the amount of goodwill that has been squandered away.
To people who think IR is not money-minded - it is probably that his ego gets the better of his money-mindedness :-)

jaiganes

14th February 2006, 03:14 PM

kiru wrote:

To people who think IR is not money-minded - it is probably that his ego gets the better of his money-mindedness
So what's the final decision? If IR is not guilty under section"fraud", lets try him under section "ego-minded" and pronounce a verdict!!
Well that smacks of vindictiveness!
I bought CDs for myself and my relatives and I am happy with what IR delivered.
If he can deliver one more project like TiS, I will off course support him in any way I can as a fan. I will be really feeling let down if he doesn't deliver it. I would be least bothered about how he delivers it and more about what he delivers.

However I still do have a tinge of disappointment in a corner of my heart that someone (TIS-USA) got a bad experience after helping out this venture.
Questions to TISK:
1. Did IR directly involve tis-usa or was it fully an idea by Tamil Maiyyam to involve TIS-USA?
2. What were IR's initial reactions to tis-usa being involved in the venture?
3. Who funded IR's stay in Malaysia for TiS composition?
4. In the earlier letter Father had posted, it was said that WellGate paid only 5 Lakhs to Tamil Mayyam, what is the current status?
5. TIS-USA site referred at last says that 40% of loans have been repaid. what is the current status?

Ofcourse I dont demand all these information. I merely ask. however looking at the caustic reply that you have posted, I must presume that you haven't made much progress. One reason why music lovers in USA are not buying TIS could well be the misuse of "Right of fair use" clause in CDs, which allow copying across iPods and other music players. This allows for music sharing across iPods, that cannot be prevented. In India this menace is a lot less because of the forbidding costs of iPods here.

14th February 2006, 08:53 PM

It is also ridiculous that in terms of the contribution to the TIS project, while everyone is talking about the money that was invested as the capital for the project, no one is giving due credit to the intellectual capital of IR that was contributed to the project.

In terms of statements about IP and who owns it etc., those things should have been contractually negotiated prior to the onset of the project. When you are an employee of an organization, you get in to such contracts when you enter a job. If such contracts are not put in place, then each party can lay a legitimate claim, like may be happening now with TIS.

However, IR has not squandered anything with this fan. If he wants to do another project like TIS, I will be one of the first to contribute.

app_engine

14th February 2006, 09:00 PM

"I guess you guys have totally a distorted view of Intellectual Property rights work"

Kiru, ennanga idhu, 18 varushamA design / development field'la irukkaRa ALukku basics'la class edukkareenga...For your kind info, I've even worked on an assignment that was to obtain patent rights for a company...and all my technical brain work these years belong to the companies I worked for & I do not own a single patent / design or line of code:-)).

Please read my post carefully...I didn't talk about who owns the product now or who should be making money with that or how the .org is taken care / not taken care etc.

In fact, I do sympathize with the .org & TiS-USA for all their efforts and regret the probable bad treatment meted out to them, which is typically expected from a film-field bigwig and something of a sort I would never want to be involved in. Not in my lifetime.

My only observation was there was no defrauding of "public" (i.e. those individuals who donated for the production of thiruvasagam with musical arrangement)...didn't IR score for it? (It even got released)...there fulfilled the expectations for which they voluntarily donated...where is the question of their being sucked?...

Romba polambureengaLE sir, oru chinna kELvi, let the .org come out in open:

How much was IR paid up front for the album? What salary was paid to him (not to his artists or recording theater or his travel but as salary to him individually for his time / skills / labor) using the money of the 'public'? kOdikkaNakkula kottikkoduththuttAngaLA? at least `karakAttakkAri'kku koduththa salary koduththAngaLA?...

'IP' paththi pEsareengaLE, `royalty'nnu oru vishayam irukku...adhu paththiyum konjam research paNNungO sir...

14th February 2006, 09:41 PM

app_engine

14th February 2006, 10:54 PM

More on IP rights:

For the sake of discussion, say TM is the company that `hired' IR to work for them on a product development. Paid him salary and provided him facilities, after signing up such contracts like an employer-employee or company-agency. Ofcourse, the product (its design and everything connected with it including the 'IP') is in that case owned by TM. 100%...no question about that.

Who is stopping them from selling it themselves and make money? Or who is stopping them from fighting it out legally if someone else is guilty of violation of their copyright/patent/ownership/you-name-it?

Why they are not doing it if it's hitting their bread-n-butter? Is it because they cannot spend for a lawyer...there're plenty of firms which can work with them and get paid only when they win and are awarded the millions in compensation...TM probably knows this better than any of us...then why they are not going to court instead of lamenting in blogs?...

The possible explanations:
a) They have not in reality 'hired' the artiste IR...can't afford to pay him...hence may be made him a co-producer...'nee arisi koNdu vA, nAn umi koNdu vaREn...' kind of logic...accordingly there is a sharing of rights (in whichever format / agreement it is) and also sharing of profit / loss that is 'proportionate' to investment.

or

b) Though TM has 100% rights, they are willing to give them up and put up with IR's idiosyncrasies and 'forgive' him despite becoming pauper because of him...(do you think this is praiseworthy, especially when they with IR jointly collected donations from public?)

or

c) They have made (or still confident of making) enough money for themselves...if not thru sales, thru some big sponsors (like Tis-USA, who can be pushed to barter CD's for loan money)...

njv

15th February 2006, 12:04 AM

The logistics have been discussed in great depths from 49th page, so there is no need to go back to this again. net net all those who got involed had no idea about market condition and the technology called "mp3", so is the reason why it hurt their finger/pocket.

kiru

15th February 2006, 01:25 AM

app_engine and others, sorry I dont mean to underestimate your knowledge of IP or not. I guess we all have a different perspective on how things went (or the version of it). All problems would not have arisen if TM negotiated everything (I mean in completeness, regarding rights/royalty/salary etc) in hard copy, which they did not.
Anyways, I dont think I have the energy to revisit this topic again.
My impression/opinion of IR's integrity is not the same after this TIS incident. Sorry this is an opinion, I can only change this over a course of time and learning of IR more. It is not something, I am afraid, will change in a few posts.

app_engine

15th February 2006, 03:02 AM

"My impression/opinion of IR's integrity is not the same after this TIS incident"

I appreciate your viewpoint. Honestly, I never cared about IR's integrity at any point of time (before or after TiS)...Simply because, I need to worry about that only if and when I'm going to enter into any business dealings with him personally.

While his music was / is / will be special to me, I never cared for him as a personality in a way much different from any other successful film personality...avanga ellArukkum main kuRikkOL paNam & pughazh...matRa ellAmE 'as per convenience' dhAn..(ethics, honesty, manidha nEyam, uRavugaL, sei nandRi etc.)...'irukkAdhu, illai'nnu sollalai. They are simply not their `priority' items. So, namma adhukku uNarchi vasappada vENdiyadhE illai enbadhu en karuththu. (Over the years, I have seen such values disappearing with even individuals that you meet in everyday life...enna seiyya? sigh...)

"All problems would not have arisen if TM negotiated everything (I mean in completeness, regarding rights/royalty/salary etc) in hard copy, which they did not."

I totally agree with you on this. Unless one is willing to forgo the money ("pOttE, sAram illa"), it's always prudent to put everything in paper when dealing with business matters - even if the other party is a close friend or relative...adhu thAnga namma policy...

TISK

15th February 2006, 03:33 AM

Thank you Mr. 'app-engine' and all those who had contributed on my comments.

Please don't get me wrong... I have taken exactly the same stand as you have mentioned..."pOttE, sAram illA" long back and that's one of my reasons for not saying anything adverse. But, when I saw this appeal for 'pre-orders', I just wanted to throw a word of caution. That's all.

Otherwise, I am personally pleased to have associated with this great project and my respect for that musical genius remains the same, but as a person....????"pOttE sAram illA"!!

rprasad

15th February 2006, 06:06 AM

Wow, Its amazing how quickly people pass judgements and change opinions based on some information which is not even validated. This is the price a celebrity artist pays i guess. People start questioning their integrity without knowing the complete facts.
Kiru, IR does not need a Integrity certificate from you or any others for that matter. AS App Engine said i would worry about someones integrity only if i need to work with them in a business relationship.He delivered an outstanding product for the people to enjoy and that is what matters.Did he deliver a third rate product and waste the public's money? No. He fully lived upto to the trust people had in him. There may have been issues with the way the business part of it was carried out , but that is for the involved parties to sort out. Nobody knows where the exact blame lies. Maybe it was not the way a project like this should have been handled. So try to bother about IR's integrity when you do business with him on a personal level, till then your opinion has no basis. IR has no need to cheat anyone to earn money. He has already composed and released non film music albums on his own. People are speaking as if he wanted to make some illegal money out of this project. The fact is none knows the complete truth so the best thing would be to let the parties sort this out and not try and form opinions on somebody's integrity based on this. We will never know the complete truth since this a private business matter between IR and the other party.
Mr TISK, I have also lost respect for you, based on the way you seem to cast doubts on IR's character at every given opportunity. By the way just as you wanted to throw a word of caution to people for the pre orders request from IR, i would also throw a word of caution to people on trying to do business with the other parties who were involved with Thiruvasakam project.

No person is perfect in life so lets remember that before we start judging others and start talking about Integrity

TISK

15th February 2006, 07:14 AM

THANK YOU FOR LOSING RESPECT FOR ME AND THANK GOD FOR YOU BEING NOT IN MY SHOES!

BTW, for those who are still interested, we have slowly taken care of 70% of the loans!

jaiganes

15th February 2006, 11:12 AM

BTW, for those who are still interested, we have slowly taken care of 70% of the loans!

Thats some progress.
May you repay all your loans.

However one small thought.
Did it ever occur to you that TamilMM gave you the shrt end of the rope or stick(or whatever)?

Also , why did you enter the project, is it because Tamil MM asked you or is it IR who asked you personally to enter into the project?

Just curious for info.

One heartening info...

Any effort lke TiS is not like a normal music CD or a movie music. It grows on people and it earns revenue as years go by(very much like how fans buy and rebuy albums like Nothing But Wind or How to Name it). So for such an album like TiS, the initial sales has been more or less like movie album in India atleast. That itself is something spectacular. As far as US market is concerned, slowly as web sites and other iPod pirates run out of memory, they will unload TiS from their ipods and mp3 players and there will be a renewed demand for TiS. So hold on....
This is all I can say for now.
I will explore any options of pushing TiS in USA from wherever i am to whatever level I can.

kameshratnam

15th February 2006, 05:32 PM

Hi,

I would like to object to whatever has been said in ww.raaja.com. This is nt my own feelings but this has been shared by lot of us who have been HURT. i have taken a cue from blogs...

1. The company to which the audio rights were sold was a startup company and it had no marketing network.

2. Many places in canada and uk did not get the cds for months. Shd people wait for the same. Still in Oman the cd is not available.

3. Even in chennai, there was a shortage for cds. In places like Kezkattalai and Madipakkam when people went to buy the cds, there were told that it was sold out.

4.The worst was the audio cass came out after a month. In places like tirunelveli and madurai, cass are main.No one cared for this

5. Special Edition was to be released but they released it after a month. Those who already bought the audio cd had to buy it again.

To sell something is extremely difficult. even if u have to sell tooth powder, you have to market it well.

This was a golden oppurtunity lost. Please dont blame the fans

Kamesh B

rajasaranam

15th February 2006, 09:47 PM

Innumma ..... Inga vivaatham nadanthuttu irukku :shock:
TISK has settled 70% of loans thats a good news :)
Namma Thalai Raaja Adutha project pathi yosikka aarambichitaaru...Thats the greatest news to me :D
Adutha project layavathu entha controversylayum sikkama varattum :roll:
IR mela respect izhanthu avar padalgala inimae ketkaame iruka poravangalukku anuthaabangal :wink:
Nammalum nashtapadama Adutha projectkku preorders collect panna poravangalukku [ennaiyum serthu than] Vaazhthukkal :oops:

sudhakarg

15th February 2006, 10:10 PM

Kamesh, point taken.. But the question is, why blame IR if the marketing failed. We all know that "Sales and Marketing" is not IR's forte. Or, for that matter even PR.. :-)

As humans, we all feel like trying something new/different every time, and if it fails we try something else. I think IR did the same. When he releases his next big album, may be he'll go to Sony/HMV et al.. But does it guarantee success??? Only time can tell. But, please, lets not flame the person who has given us so much joy with his music.

vijayr

15th February 2006, 10:33 PM

"Kamesh, point taken.. But the question is, why blame IR if the marketing failed"

Kamesh is not blaming IR. He was responding to IR's initial post in raaja.com which pointed a finger at some of the fans for the lack of high sales, when the biggest reason for lack of high sales figures laid with Welgate/other parties. Of course, IR later toned down his initial message and released another version of it.

app_engine

15th February 2006, 10:34 PM

""Sales and Marketing" is not IR's forte"....not always true Sudhakar...avar thannai nandRAga market paNNAmal ivvaLavu nAL field'il irundhirukka mudiyAdhu (despite his extraordinary talents)...

May be he lost those skills / focus today (or probably his mktg skills are getting obsolete in today's market)...but that was not always the case...

cry_sandiego

17th February 2006, 01:50 AM

App_engine,

I care nothing other than his music and also may not be qualified to comment abt him, but in my opinion and the limited interactions I have had with him, I believe that PR and Biz acumen is not IR's Forte.. The music genius has many other talents ( vocal , humor , Lyrics , writing and Philosophy ). I guess he could have scaled much more heights/commercial success if he knew how to better market/time/position/associate his creations..

The man is so spontaneous with his words/deeds ( just like his music )and that gets him into trouble some times.. The recent letter is one such example i guess.

You can see many examples today both in arts and business where they have scaled /scored much more commercial success and fame than IR did/would.

BUt anyway each person is different that's what makes this world so beautiful.. and I appreciate and take what is best in each person and ignore things i do not like /agree.. THat is why i do not get upset about any mediocre songs in his albums or comments about his biz skills/ethics..

Anyway, just my humble opinion..

Cheers
MSK

cry_sandiego

17th February 2006, 02:07 AM

I meant..

You can see many examples today both in arts and business where they have scaled /scored much more commercial success and fame than IR did/would bm,./with much less music competency but well complemented by their PR/biz skills.

njv

17th February 2006, 09:20 AM

each person is different that's what makes this world so beautiful.. and I appreciate and take what is best in each person and ignore things i do not like /agree.. THat is why i do not get upset about any mediocre songs in his albums or comments about his biz skills/ethics..:thumbsup:

kameshratnam

17th February 2006, 02:14 PM

If he cannot sell it then he has to cooperate with people who are willing to sell it. None of us know the real picture as to what has happened behind the scenes with respect to TIO sale but the sad point is blaming the ordinary fan in the street who put his hard earned money and bought it and finally was told u pirated the cd.

What hurt more is it appeared in a website in public and none of the persons associated with that website supported us. Then a message did appear which said he did not mean it to all of his fans. That was an eyewash..People should accept reality and say yes we did this mistake and from the next time it will not happen.

IR is a musical genius..his music is beyond words...There everything stops

17th February 2006, 08:58 PM

I think once again people are emotionally responding to the IR message on raaja.com on both sides.

Before you can castigate IR for his message, the rational approach would be to gather data on a. How may illegal downloads or illegal copies of CDs/Tapes of TIS happened b. Were those downloads or copies by people who would have otherwise purchased TIS CD or tapes.

Without such data to back up, the retorts to IR's message are just emotional outbursts. A reasonable response could be to ask IR if he has the data to suggest that illegal downloads and illegal copies were made and their impact on sales of TIS audio. But to go more than that to accuse IR of anything else, rational people would need to have more data to castiagate IR.

app_engine

17th February 2006, 09:27 PM

kr,MSK,njv,rajasaranam,vijayr,kameshratnam,sudhaka rg,kiru and others...

Please amuse with some imaginations in the IR's new albums thread...
http://tfmpage.mayyam.com/hub/viewlite.php?t=1030

vijayr

17th February 2006, 10:03 PM

"Before you can castigate IR for his message, the rational approach would be to gather data on a. How may illegal downloads or illegal copies of CDs/Tapes of TIS happened b. Were those downloads or copies by people who would have otherwise purchased TIS CD or tapes.

Without such data to back up, the retorts to IR's message are just emotional outbursts. "

the data should have been gathered by IR before he made the official accusation and he should have published it along with his original letter. IR is the accuser here. That was the rational thing to do on his part. why should the fans do it?They have better things to do in life. In this case, its IR who made the emotional outburst without any data to back up. And he had to regret it and come out with a "softer" version of the original letter. My guess is he just wrote a letter based on some hearsay. Its tough to find out how much sales was affected by overall piracy, leave alone unintentional piracy by a few fans.

17th February 2006, 10:57 PM

"A reasonable response could be to ask IR if he has the data to suggest that illegal downloads and illegal copies were made and their impact on sales of TIS audio. "

You probably missed this part of the message in your usual urgency to attack anone who wants to defend IR.

"But to go more than that to accuse IR of anything else, rational people would need to have more data to castiagate IR."

This was my point. And I was posting it for people who want to be rational about this.

vijayr

17th February 2006, 11:19 PM

"You probably missed this part of the message in your usual urgency to attack anone who wants to defend IR. "

I didnt miss that. My point is why should anyone go and even ask him? They have better things to do in life. If he is the official accuser the burden of proof is with him. Anyways communication is essentially a one-way street with that oficial site of his.Even after many fans expressed their thoughts on this letter he still didnt come out with the figures in his second message. what does that tell you?

"But to go more than that to accuse IR of anything else, rational people would need to have more data to castiagate IR"

People are being pretty rational and patient about it. Even after such a letter from IR there are many who replied saying that they would support the next project. what more do you expect?

In your usual urgency to defend IR, you have put down fans like Kamesh who were actually a big part of making TIS reach as many people as it has.

vijayr

17th February 2006, 11:30 PM

"But to go more than that to accuse IR of anything else"

what has IR been accused of here anyways? No one has accused him of anything. Its a fact that he didnt discern betweens fans who did and did'nt do piracy and so he released a "revised" second letter

Its also a fact that he is yet to present any proof even after several ppl expressed their unhappiness and the fact that they worked hard for the project.

If anything its IR who has been accusing his fans in his official site, not the other way around.

sudhakarg

18th February 2006, 01:37 PM

I think we all need to accept that Media piracy has become a part of our life, and for "creator" like IR, I'm sure this must be one of those sensitive issues. As a teenager, I've myself got "selected songs" recorded in my personal cassette from Music stores in Chennai in the 80s. The general awareness that people have to buy originals was just not there. then.., and believe me it is still not there. Even now, I hear from a lot of people that they saw some latest movie (still in theatres) through pirated VCDs/DVDs etc. And these are some well educated people.

To narrate a small story here.. I was very eager to get TiS CD here in UK, and the local stores did not have it. Fortunately, I had a colleague who was travelling from India during that time & he brought along the original CD with him. I thanked him profusely. After one listening, I asked him politely if he would like to have the CD for a listening. He said, "naan ennOda computer'le munnAdiyE copy paNNikittEn Sudhakar". For a second I was shocked.. But then, I realized that there is in general very little awareness on Copyright/piracy etc within our folks. And given the ease with which media can be reproduced, it will be a while before laws can be designed to prevent this. Until then, creators/artists like IR have to live with that sense of helplessness.

jaiganes

18th February 2006, 01:53 PM

But then, I realized that there is in general very little awareness on Copyright/piracy etc within our folks. And given the ease with which media can be reproduced, it will be a while before laws can be designed to prevent this. Until then, creators/artists like IR have to live with that sense of helplessness.

Precisely the point I have been trying to make. I dont need to do much of a research to say that subtle piracy due to ignorance and misinterpretation of "the fair use " clause is a huge reason for lack of sales of music from India overseas. While Indians overseas buy latest english pop albums, they dont hesitate to copy Indian music(be it film or otherwise) into their PCs and iPods, copying across multiple machines, sharing files among friends etc., Not just IR, every Indian musician must incite his/her fans to act against piracy of this sort even if it means to ruffle a few feathers.

prashanth12

19th February 2006, 05:54 AM

What makes you think overseas Indians would pay for their english music but not for their Indian music?

Vysar

19th February 2006, 10:26 PM

What makes you think overseas Indians would pay for their english music but not for their Indian music?

The gentleman who posted previously to yours himself aides the privacy. Since he does that he thinks others do that too. They project their problems on others.

jaiganes

20th February 2006, 10:07 AM

The gentleman who posted previously to yours himself aides the privacy. Since he does that he thinks others do that too. They project their problems on others.
Mr. Thuppariyum sambu!! you are really intelligent man!!

Prashanth! I told you what i saw. I saw a host of thamizh NRIs in DC and Orlando buy MJ, Janet and Mariah Carey songs diligently, while preferring to download and burn Thamizh film songs by ARR and others. They were simply not willing to pay for Indian albums if there was a piracy option available to them. I have also seen people (read friends) copy TiS and WOHE by ARR onto iPods saying they will listen and buy later, however that 'later' rarely comes.
For the Thuppariyum Sambu anna Vysar's kind info I don't have any iPod or burning capabilities and browse net behind a slow dialup. Even if I had, I would buy album like TiS paying its worthy due.

thumburu

20th February 2006, 02:11 PM

I first heard Thiruvasagam from a pirated CD. one of my colleagues was playing during office hours. Hearing TIS and liking it, , some of my other Tamil colleagues decided to magnanimously "spend" a CD for copying TIS from the already pirated CD.
Well, a relative of mine , a diehard Raja fan, who didn't mind spending thousand rupees to buy a VIP ticket for the Raja's music show is not enthused enough to get a TIS cd as he feels it is non filmi, religious and not his cup of tea.
"Fans" palavidham.

Vysar

21st February 2006, 03:50 AM

Mr. Thuppariyum sambu!! you are really intelligent man!!

Dial up days are long over in US. When people point a finger on others they forget that their other four fingers are pointing at them. Being Thengathu James Bond Jai(shankar)ganes, iPods and other MP3 players BS never work here. Go and cry wolf with your leader who single handedly bankrupt tamil maiyam and other NRIs.

njv

21st February 2006, 07:22 AM

TISK

27th February 2006, 08:13 PM

Last night was the Holy Sivarathri. It was a divine experience listening to TbI in the middle of the night with only a lamp in front of Lord Siva. Hope you also would have done so!

YIA!!

njv

28th February 2006, 02:06 AM

Last night was the Holy Sivarathri. It was a divine experience listening to TbI in the middle of the night with only a lamp in front of Lord Siva. Hope you also would have done so!

YIA!!

I have to learn a lot from you. Its so difficult to still like TIS and IR music after all that you went thru'. For me its an easy switch because it didnt impact me directly but for you it had a direct impact. Hats off to you.

kameshratnam

2nd March 2006, 06:04 PM

I got this news from his website

The audio distributors Well Gate say they have sold 35000 CDs and 25000 cassettes of the album. According to Landmark, a leading chain bookstore in Chennai, the Thiruvasagam audio sale has been "stunning". They have sold 10700 CDs and 2800 cassettes. As many as 3000 CDs were bought on the first day of release of audio (30th June 05). Odyssey, another major chain store in Chennai recorded good sales of 4000 CDs and 2500 cassettes of the audio.

35000 Cds * Rs 150 = 52,50,000

25000 cass * Rs 50 min = 12,50,000

What is the loss we are talking about???Does this include the US Sales too....

Regards,
Kamesh B

rajasaranam

2nd March 2006, 06:41 PM

Kamesh,
Thirupiyum aarambichuteengala :shock:
We people over here have already confused with all these mathematics and you are jumping in too late.
The actual calculation should be something like this
TM and IR will get Rs.24 per CD and Rs.8 per cassette sold.
while TM has invested over 1.40 crores which it had raised by means of donations and preorders and their own means like funds from friends, long time interest free loans and some loans with interest etc., IR has invested his time and creativity in the project.
The split of profit between IR-TM is 50-50. Now do your maths and tell me whether its a loss or not as per the sales figure given by wellgate.
there are two sides for the outcome - its IR who has jointly with wellgate cheated TM or its Wellgate which has done the cheating while IR believes in Wellgate's figures blindly.
Anyway by father's statement its evident that IR had some part to play foul in this whole episode while IR has not released any official statement denying the accusations.:(

ezy0265

2nd March 2006, 07:49 PM

Dear Rajasaranam,

In the first place as neutrals many of us are asking if TM truly spent 1.4 crores for this project. Who all pocketed how much of this public money can also be a question mark.

But that would be just like the allegations people are throwing at IR. Just because he did not give any press statement does not give any authentication to those claims and accusations made by Jasper or Gasper? and others!

app_engine

6th March 2006, 11:49 PM

http://dinamalar.com/2006mar05varamalar/Sirukathai.asp

TbI reference in a short story (udal dhAnam)...(I can hear someone telling `vERa vEla illayA'nnu...hi..hi...)

sats

7th March 2006, 01:50 AM

IR DONATES VAIRA KRIDAM TO MUKAMBIGAI TEMPLE

Check Dinamalar.

Vysar

7th March 2006, 02:21 AM

all the donated money goes to the temples. It looks like IR made a fortune out of TIS deal with Wellgate.

http://www.dinamalar.com/2006mar07/final1.asp#3

TISK

21st March 2006, 08:01 AM

After all these, how can one attain the 'Peace'?

By reading the original verses wriitten by Saint Manicka vaasagar and then going back to the CD and making an effort to connect with the original!

Now that, things have come to an absolute stand still, here is something I am going to offer!

I have a rare DVD of a frew lines of the 2nd song in the CD being ........

.................................................. .........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WITH THE SINGER, WHO RENDERED THWE ENGLISH VERSION, IN THE PRESENCE OF STEVEN SCWARTZ AND THE GREAT MAESTRO RICHARD KING SHGOWING HIS 'THUMBS' ON THE MASTER KEYBOARD AND............................................... .......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE MAESTRO CONDUCTING, CAJOLING, MIMICKING AND GEtTING THE 'DESIRED' EFFECT FOR THE LINES!

THIS IS ONE DVD RUNNING FOR OVER 3 HOURS AND 30 MINUTES JUST FOR 6 LINES.!!!

This will give you an idea on the magnitude of the efforts put down by the maestro!

Luckily, I seem to be the owner of this DVD and to offset the committments, I am willing to offer it to the highest bidder, if it is over 25K or to the first 50 fans who are willing to donate $500. 00 to be the only owners of this rare DVD!

So, IIR fans, go ahead and make your offer!
YIA!!

BTW, I see this thread has crossed the 100,000 mark!!
Has any other thread done it so far?
YIA!!

vijayr

21st March 2006, 08:46 AM

well this is not a sneak preview of TISK's DVD, but something I found on the net. A very short vid clip with IR shown rehearsing with the chorus singers for track no.5
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6074861446702225308&q=ilayaraja

vijayr

21st March 2006, 08:50 AM

and news on an alternate symphony attempt with leading classical artistes by Tamil mayyam
http://www.hindu.com/2006/03/19/stories/2006031904710500.htm

is this an attempt to recover?

kameshratnam

21st March 2006, 11:40 AM

This is the greatest problem with you etc..TISK...Its like u seem to tell that u have this and that in intervals.

If i may ask you with full credit to whatever you have done...how many such dvds do you have? Do you have any more things in the offering? What i want to ask is...will you after 2 months come out in any forum and say that u have a personal dvd recording of IR talking about TIS and what not???

The best way for this is..u make copies and sell the dvds in US and send the copies to chennai and price them @ 100 RS per copy. The sale will happen only for a day..thats it..U make the money and move..

Dont make the ordinary IR fan to beg..

Regards,
Kamesh B

ezy0265

21st March 2006, 05:55 PM

In the name of IR's musical talent, I request people to use their brains before being conned by money swindlers like TISK!!!!

From the very beginning I have been warning you people about all the "noble" parties involved in this project that there could be no one possibly in it for charity! Now look at TISK....trying to con big time with such silly offers! How the hell did he get hold of this video? Has he not been abusing his involvement in this project to reap rewards like this?

Hello TISK! I think your involvement in Thiruvasagam is enough!!! Don't keep on cheating us and stop using YIA! for god's sake.

Vysar

23rd March 2006, 01:44 AM

IR paid money to score 1993 symphony not by invitation claim two retired professors. They allege that IR cheated everyone by hiding the truth. Read details here:

http://www.dinakaran.com/epaper/2006/mar/23/disp.asp?i=13_5

multinamatheyan

23rd March 2006, 02:27 AM

This is not new.

I wrote to RPO sometime in 1995 (or may be late 1994) inquiring about how Raja was chosen to perform the symphony and when it will be released.

They wrote back saying 'Raja approached us' - They did not mention anything about money transfers.

They also said Raja owns the copyrights of the recordings so it is upto him to release it.

The letter also had some high praise for Raja as a musician and some vague description of the music he recorded at RPO as being western classical with a heavy influence of Indian rythms. I forget the details now.

So these two learned people are too late:-)

As for the claim of there being no music form as Symphonic oratorio, they me be right. I know nothing about this sort of stuff.

However, if they are right, I would propose that history should rightfully record that one Mr. Illayaraja from Tamil Nadu, was the first one to define and use the musical form 'Symphonic-oratorio'

....later

rajdes

23rd March 2006, 11:14 AM

Well, well. Vysar. Kaarthala ezhundhadhum, innikku enna IR-bashing news=nu thedi padippengala? :-)
Firstly, IR himself mentioned, during one of the Making DVD/CD moments, that this is not a Western Classical Symphony and I think, it was in response to Parthiban on a TV programme, that he mentioned that it is similar to Oratorio. I dont see any intention to cheat here.

Secondly, he clearly also mentioned that the WC aspects of it are less emphasized and the eventual product was not really a pure WCM effort - this was in the part of the DVD telecast by SS music, as I remember it.

Thirdly, Symphonic Oratorio is clearly an "innovative" title thought of by the marketeers. The very name should tell people that is a mix of genre. Overstating the ovious is an accusation that can now be thrown at these 2 retired gentlemen.

Fourthly, very interestingly, the 2 gentlemen hold IR and Fr Gasper responsible for the so-called cheating but threaten to sue only IR :-)
Now, now. I hope TM/TiS-USA now understands the sort of personal stake that IR brought to this project. While they get to share the profits, howsoever inadequate, and maybe financial losses , they dont get to share the same 'loss' of goodwill, when things turn sour.
I do hope that if IR is sued, TM and TiS-USA raise their hands and voluntarily say "No, no, please sue us also, we were also involved in this exercise. We also should share the loss of goodwill".

kameshratnam

23rd March 2006, 12:05 PM

We dont care if he approached or they approached. His music is beyond words and he is one of the greatest composers born ever.
He is a genius and has proved it beyond doubt. Its not that he has make albums to prove his worth

Come on people, we cannot doubt basics.

raja_fan

23rd March 2006, 12:35 PM

Hello !!,

1. RPL is the favourite symphony orchestra of the British Royal family and is patroned by the family, especially the queen. Are they begging for some Ilaiyaraja from TamilNadu to give them MONEY to fill their stomcah !! ?? What nonsense allegations !!?? Sonnaaalum nambumpadiyaa sollanum.

2. Are the musicians of RPL all idiots to sit for hours and rehearse in front of an Indian for Money ??

3. How much money can IR give to RPL ? He himself was in financial toruble before few years.

4. Why did not any other music director in India or Asia try this if it is so easy ??

Bala Ramasamy

23rd March 2006, 02:51 PM

These kind of things will keep cropping up now then. You can put a stop to all these nonsense only when you release the work in the public domain. Till then you have to live with these kind of characters.

It should not make any difference whether IR paid or they called him.

He wrote what came to his mind and got it played by RPO and it was recorded. No one can deny that it was his creation and RPO was only a tool.

As John Scott mentioned in his site, may be some one has commented about it not being a Symphony in the strict sense of the grammar. It looks like IR got in to a mind block of his own making after this. Because he had all along claimed it to be a symphony and now some one says it is not so. What will people think about his claim?

But then after creating so much hype and expectations about it, he should have the guts to release and face the realities.

No composer's first work is a matured one. This has been the case from time immemorial.

So what if what has come out finally is not in a symphony format. You composed and recorded some thing. Then let the people to decide what it is worth.

Once you release it then it will boil down to two things. Either you like or not like it.

At the end of the day no one is going to be too bothered about the format or grammar.

BR

sudhakarg

23rd March 2006, 07:45 PM

This article by dinakaran .... hmmm ... seems nothing but gossip / publicity stunt! V & Venkatesan would like the world to know that they know Symphony!!

Vysar

23rd March 2006, 09:16 PM

It should not make any difference whether IR paid or they called him.

BR

I am not sure about you all. I was all along thinking that IR was the first music director from Asia invited to score symphon(e)y at RPH London. IR was claiming that too. It is cheating to mislead the fans when he is the one who paid to score the symphon(e)y.

multinamatheyan

23rd March 2006, 11:52 PM

The way I understood the letter that was sent me by RPO was like this:

IR approached RPO with a proposal. The RPO liked the idea and agreed to attach their name to the product.

If the music Raja presented them with was not upto the mark, then they would have declined Raja's proposal.

Like someone said here, RPO is not going to tarnish it's name and reputation for a few lousy rupees.

I know of idiots in Toronto who say that Maniratnam movies are invited to the Toronto film festival because he pays them money. If it is that easy, then we will definitely have Simbu movies palying at festivals around the world.

I just pointed out that these two 'learned gentlemen' did not find out any himalayan truth - it was known already.

Now release the music gosh darn it

kameshratnam

24th March 2006, 03:04 PM

We are moving away from the topic. Lets come to the point. All these things of he approached etc shd be left aside. Whoever says anything.we know abt IR's music.

What are we, as his fans going to do? His music or creations seem to be a puppets in the hands of music/audio companies. He does not seem to care about this. Moods was set to be released a long time back and there is no news about it.There is no respite from this.

Now and then people will say i have the rights of this IR composition and we will be watching like dumb fools. I beg your pardon to use words like these. Sadly no one seems to understand my anguish...

-------------------------------------------------------
Mother is shakti, father is shiva, relatives are the devotees of shiva and own country is all the three worlds.

Enge sellum intha pathai..yaaro..yaaro arivar

Vysar

24th March 2006, 09:26 PM

This topic is getting side tracked just to cover up the very fact that IR lied to his ardent fans like me(then). He claimed that he got invited first tamilian or asian who got this honour etc. Actually speaking he paid and got invited himself to score the symphon(e)y. RPH is never going to say anything bad about the performance since they got paid. Unless or until, the symphon(e)y gets released and proves that it is real. I will give the benefit doubt to IR detractors .

sats

25th March 2006, 01:52 AM

rajasaranam,njv and friends

Let us leave it at this please. we cannot change what happened in the past,why waste our time here. All i would request in the future ,please read your postings before putting it in the forum. It will save a lot of trouble.

Mod msg: Digressions deleted. FYI.. we have many forums for discussions beyond TFM, on the Hub: http://www.mayyam.com/hub/ . Feel free to jump in, but strictly NO racist discussions!

njv

25th March 2006, 02:39 AM

btw in suntv today they said "nanbargalidam manasthaabam erpada vaaipullathu" - and they said my raasiyaana niram is patchchai, karuppu, ootha. naan innikku white and while (samathaana puraa!). vachitaangaya aappu. inimae suntv sonna maathirithaan dress pannanum. temperature -la irunthaa kooda avanga innikku satta podama thiriyanumnu sonna, satta podamathaan thiriyanum.

periyaaar, ungaloda paguthariva thalli vechittaen.

suntv - unga mooda nambikkaiku thalai vanangukiraen

jaiganes

26th March 2006, 02:53 PM

Hmm,
Seems like anything IR did in the recent past seemed to land his fans divided and unhappy. However this current controversy is totally uncalled for and trying to analyze it seriously will only end in a dead end as IR is again going to stone wall through "silence". I fear such stone walling should not isolate him further from millions of his addicts like me who begin and end their days thinking and singing to their self the beautiful melodies of the "King". Biggest problem with Thamizhars like us is the tendancy to scrutinize all acts by artistes and other favourite sons of this land with a microscope and judge them and try them every passing day. Artistes by nature are sensitive and not thick skinned like me . So if IR feels cornered by all these controversies and decides to stop his artistic activity, it is a loss for "addicts" like me. So pls dont give too much credibility to baseless rants published for sake of gaining publicity and louden the "noise", which is what this "article" published in dinakaran is.

jaiganes

29th March 2006, 07:50 AM

Velu prabhakaran bats (http://www.dailythanthi.com/article.asp?NewsID=248230&disdate=3/29/2006) for IR

Vysar

29th March 2006, 09:16 PM

Some more stir on the symphony controversy

http://www.kumudam.com/reporter/300306/pg1.php

sudhakarg

30th March 2006, 11:10 AM

"Dr.V" should get the best comedian award!!

app_engine

30th March 2006, 10:25 PM

Looks like the press asked YSR about the latest symphony controversy during the release of a new album (AIBI?)...and he quipped stating that he neither has the age or experience to comment on that.

paiyan pozhachchukkuvAn:-)

krish244

1st April 2006, 01:25 PM

Velu Prabhakaran in support of IR!

http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news/mar-06-05/31-03-06-ilayaraja.html

Thanks,

Krishnan

thumburu

3rd April 2006, 05:10 PM

The very fact that we have heard and relished TIS is proof enough of what IR is capable of. SO what are those jokers upto?