Sex & Indian Mentality

[thamiz]

I have a serious problem with the movie Sindhu Bhairavi. suhAshini admires Sivakumar for his talents, which is fine.

Why does she has to sleep with someone she admires SO MUCH ? Is this the only way one can show her/his admiration :?: :roll:

Is SEX everything as per KB :?:

Is that a favor she does by carrying his baby and giving that to the couple as a gift :?:

It makes the respectable relationship to become UGLY imho! :(

The only message I get from this is that if someone is an illegitmate child like sugAshini, they can never lead a normal life

What a worthless message by KB !!! :(


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moderator's note: this post appeared in a Tamil Film thread on Sindhu Bairavi and caused a total digression.
Now it is a separate thread for discussion on the subject.

[Ulaganayagan]

Why should there be a message in every movie.. Cant a person just tell a story :roll:

[Sinthiya]

i haven't seen Sindhu Bhairavi fully though i've heard of it and seen parts...songs are great....:musicsmile:....:thumbsup:....

[ssanjinika]

I have a serious problem with this movie. suhAshini admire Sivakumar for his talents, which is fine.

Why does she has to sleep with someone she admires SO MUCH ? Is this the only way one can show her/his admiration :?: :roll:

Is SEX everything as per KB :?:

Is that a favor she does by carirying his baby and giving that to the couple as a gift :?:

It makes the respectable relationship to become UGLY imho! :(

The only message I get from this is that if someone is an illegitmate child like sugAshini, they can never lead a normal life

What a worthless message by KB !!! :(

I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path.

[MADDY]

I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path

:exactly: ......i dunno y many girls dont understand it :hammer: :hammer:

[thinkfloyd]

I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path.
Very well put :clap:

[joe]

Namma oorula sex-nna etho pavakaramana seyal maathiri kuLanthaigalukku solli vaikkuranga ..athukku konjam vivaram theriyum pothu appa,ammave ivalavo mosamana aLungalannu ninakka aarampikkuthu :)

[Aandavan]

Namma oorula sex-nna etho pavakaramana seyal maathiri kuLanthaigalukku solli vaikkuranga ..athukku konjam vivaram theriyum pothu appa,ammave ivalavo mosamana aLungalannu ninakka aarampikkuthu :) :lol:

[Nakeeran]

Namma oorula sex-nna etho pavakaramana seyal maathiri kuLanthaigalukku solli vaikkuranga ..athukku konjam vivaram theriyum pothu appa,ammave ivalavo mosamana aLungalannu ninakka aarampikkuthu :)

Joe Sir

No No. Our world also has changed rapidly.

But we still wish to maintain one purity - that is SEX AFTER MARRIAGE , WELCOME. ANYWAY, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT.

BUT NOT BEFORE MARRIAGE.

You know the consequences here. If the couple fail to move forward with their marriage , unfortunately, its the woman whose case becomes pitiable while the guy will continue to lead his normal life.

[thinkfloyd]

Joe Sir

No No. Our world also has changed rapidly.

But we still wish to maintain one purity - that is SEX AFTER MARRIAGE , WELCOME. ANYWAY, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT.

It is exactly this (false) notion of "purity" that is the problem :)



BUT NOT BEFORE MARRIAGE.

You know the consequences here. If the couple fail to move forward with their marriage , unfortunately, its the woman whose case becomes pitiable while the guy will continue to lead his normal life.
Yes, as long as we have this mindset prevalent in TN... You are mixing up cause and effect here.. You say, "we wish to maintain the *purity*" and yet you say "the girl's case will be pitiable"..
The girl's case is made pitiable only because of the attitude espoused by you...

[joe]

Nakeeran,
I am not talking about Sex after/Before marriage ..,but the hype given in our soceity as if SEX itself is a SIN .We give our children a wrong impression ,so they indirectly tend to know more ,think about that more ,which deviates their mindset from what they suppose to do in that age.

I am tired of hearing ,we have this culture ,that culture ..what spl culture we have in India .In most of the countries ,a boy and girl walking on the streets hand to hand ,nobody care .It is non of other's business ,when they two themselves have no problem .At the same time virumpatha ponna poi yaarum kaiya pidichu izukkuratho ,Killuratho illa..But india-la periya pudalangai culture pathi pesurom ,but they are doing everything in dark ,veliya mattum nallavan maathiri nadanthukkuvan ..mudiyathavan sampantham illatha ponnoda poi urasuvaan ,tease pannuvaan ..is this a culture? chee..

Romba poththi poththi vaikkurathala thaan avanavan thari kettu alaiyuraan .and always thinking about this as if this is life .

[Nakeeran]

Hi Thinkf Bala

My point here :

Why the woman's case is pitiable caz, she has to carry the consequences of their pre-marital outcome & has to establish a parentage in future ( while the man goes scot free ).

This trend is still prevalent here.

Joe

What you have mentioned about conservatism is probably still on in TN.
I have been living in Mumbai for long & its quite open and people are more forward to the best of my knowledge .
Mumbai, long before has imbibed western culture.

[joe]

conservatism is probably still on in TN.

What I mentioned is not 'conservatism' ,but Hypocracy or 'Vakkiram' ..."Pennai theivama mathikkura Naadu'-nnu sollika vendiyathu ..Aana Mukka vasi per paarvayila vakkiram thaan irukku. :evil:

[Nakeeran]

Joe again

I think the trend in TN is also changing a bit.

Ex : Dr. Mathrubootham and Shakeela prog. in Vijay TV . First of its kind for TN !

Infact, they were requested to arrange for prog. in various places & they did successfully.

Unfortunately, Mr. MB passed away. He would have given more sanity to the word SEX.

[thinkfloyd]

Why the woman's case is pitiable caz, she has to carry the consequences of their pre-marital outcome & has to establish a parentage in future ( while the man goes scot free ).

Yes Nakeeran, but that's a different issue.. cheating (ditching), child out of wedlock, abortion etc..
Premarital sex by adults out of mutual consent is different and is unnecessarily enclosed with a victorian veiwpoint...




I have been living in Mumbai for long & its quite open and people are more forward to the best of my knowledge .

Mumbai indha vishaythula far better :thumbsup:
Bus/train la ladies and gents sit side by side.. eve-teasing illa, relatively safer for women etc...

remba digress pannittom :oops: :)

[ssanjinika]

Thinkfloyd :clap: :clap:

Romba digress pannitom :P
SeriousA I never thought that illegimate children can never have proper lives or premarital sex is wrong is the message that KB wanted to spread through this movie :roll:

[Lambretta]

I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path.
Be tat as it may SS, the point here is tat in SB, the character (suhasini) ends up having a relation w/ a MARRIED man, w/out either of them realising tat its wrong on both their part; for her to steal a man from his wife (& I dont think the price to pay wud merely suffice w/ 'gifting' her illegitimate child to the man's wife! :roll: ) & for the guy to be unfaithful to his wife jus bcos shez a totally ho-hum type who doesnt share his passion for classical music (in wich case who the **** asked him to accept her as his wife in the 1st place, he shud've gone for sumone like-minded!)....a path like this tat they both end up following cud hardly be regarded as "love"..... :roll:
So tats wat the point, as put forward by the thread-starter, is all abt... :)

[Designer]

---
I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path.

Thats what I too thought KB had depicted in Sinthu Bhairavi. :)

Bcos when at first Sivakumar blows a kiss to Suhasini during a phone conv, she gets angry with him. and later on she too feels the same way about him. Her admiration for him turns to love, and then to sex which is a more intimate form of love !

[crazy]

sinna vayasulla paarthathu.............maranthu pocchu

[podalangai]

It is interesting to compare "Sindhu Bhairavi" with "Shankarabharanam." One theme which is certainly similar is that the directors of both were trying to also say something about the hypocrisy of certain sections of South Indian society - which, I think, comes out much better in Shankarabharanam.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Sadly the fact there are still a vast majority of girls who do not want to hold the hands of any & every boy except her only man's is conveniently overlooked by those who are quick to bash Indian 'hypocrisy' about our ancient sense of values called 'culture'! :(

[podalangai]

Sadly the fact there are still a vast majority of girls who do not want to hold the hands of any & every boy except her only man's is conveniently overlooked by those who are quick to bash Indian 'hypocrisy' about our ancient sense of values called 'culture'! :(

PP Amma, the hypocrisy I was talking about is in that even today the same stigma does not attach to a boy / man who goes astray as it does to a girl / woman who goes astray.

This is even present in our very language. Think of the way the word "kaRpu" has changed meaning since Sangam times. And despite Bharatiyar's pleas, it is still used to only refer to female chastity. There isn't even a common word in Tamil to refer to the equivalent concept for men! Isn't this rank hypocrisy?

I am not saying that the answer is to throw out the idea of virtue - that would be silly indeed. But isn't the fact that the blame attaches mostly to the girl in our society worth questioning?

[pavalamani pragasam]

As we go up the rungs of civilisation & culture & refinement over the centuries brighter, healthier, improved concepts have been spread by great thinkers/reformers. Mahakavi Bharathi has boldly, loudly proclaimed for the whole humanity to hear"kaRpinai aaNukkum peNNukkum pothuvinil vaippOm".

[podalangai]

PP Amma, I agree and I referred to Bharatiyar's statement in my original post :) But I don't think our society has accepted this as yet. At least, we do't hear people commonly talking about a man's kaRpu, and the double standards I was talking about are things I have seen applied to my own cousins.

[thinkfloyd]

Sadly the fact there are still a vast majority of girls who do not want to hold the hands of any & every boy except her only man's is conveniently overlooked by those who are quick to bash Indian 'hypocrisy' about our ancient sense of values called 'culture'! :(
You are missing the point. Nobody told any girl to hold the hands of men she isn't going to marry. The point is, not all girls are like that and there is nothing wrong with the other type as well. If you call "not holding hands" or chastity as the paragon of *virtue*, i'm afraid that's a very narrow point of view.

BTW, talking about our 'ancient culture', what do you think of Khajuraho, Suchindram etc??? What about men having a hundred wives, women having many husbands in certain matriarchal societies in Kerala, the playboy-ishness of Lord Krishna etc???

[Surya]

I can't belive that Pre-marital sex is still seen as such a big taboo etc in India! :roll:


Why the woman's case is pitiable caz, she has to carry the consequences of their pre-marital outcome & has to establish a parentage in future ( while the man goes scot free ).

This trend is still prevalent here.

That trend is only prevalent because of the narrow minded, outdated outlook that the Indian society has on this issue. :) That can only change when we finally completely shred off all the male chauvinistic BS that's still rooted deep in our society! :)

"Karpu endru oru nilai vanthal, athai iru katchikkum podhuvil vaipom!" Bharathy said this years ago, and we are still yet to grasp it! :x

What's with the whole virginity thing anyway? :huh: Do we marry ppl because of what they are, or for their virginity? :?

[Surya]

WHOA! Didn't realize this thread had a 2nd page....:oops:


Nobody told any girl to hold the hands of men she isn't going to marry. The point is, not all girls are like that and there is nothing wrong with the other type as well. If you call "not holding hands" or chastity as the paragon of *virtue*, i'm afraid that's a very narrow point of view.

:clap:


BTW, talking about our 'ancient culture', what do you think of Khajuraho, Suchindram etc??? What about men having a hundred wives, women having many husbands in certain matriarchal societies in Kerala, the playboy-ishness of Lord Krishna etc???

YES!

Ironically Sex is something which was viewed with a much broader Perspective by our ancestors than the Current Generations. :)

For some reason this whole sex = taboo thing is something which tagged along later on just like Male Chauvinism in Indian Culture.

[crazy]

what r u all trying to say? is pre- marital sex acceptable or not?

[Surya]

what r u all trying to say? is pre- marital sex acceptable or not?

Well...that's up to the person. To me it's acceptable. If it were up to me, it would be acceptable to Indian Society, or at least not seen as something negative in Indian Society.

But still holding on to the thought that "Pre-marital sex is taboo, especially for women because a woman's virginity is the symbol of her "purity" (Whatever in hell the definition of purity might be) is a very narrow perspective. :) Hopefully it will change soon as time goes on. :)

[podalangai]

Hmmm... if I have time this weekend I will post some comments on the subject of marriage and pre-marital sex with reference to the statements of Tolkappiyar and Nakkiranar on the point.

[crazy]

Hmmm... if I have time this weekend I will post some comments on the subject of marriage and pre-marital sex with reference to the statements of Tolkappiyar and Nakkiranar on the point.

pannunga anna

[thamiz]

I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path.

Really?!

Then why does she leave for good after giving the child to him?! :roll:

The "love" did not last after having sex or what? :?

Or she will start admiring someone else for some other talents and she will fall in love and the love will become sex, and give another guy one more child and go on and on :?:

Answer me, SS, please! :

If there is nothing to feel guilty about it, it is a BETRAYAL that she leaves him for good!!! Why does she do tha if there is nothing wrong in it :?:

After all love is sex. You can love anybody and have sex with anybody as long as it is mutual between those two?? Is that what you are trying to say?

Are you sure of this, SS??

[Surya]

I thought what started off as admiration soon turns into love on both their parts. Sex is a form of love. Its only natural that it takes that path

:exactly: ......i dunno y many girls dont understand it :hammer: :hammer:

Personal Expierence-a? :lol: JK! :wink: I agree with you btw!

:hammer: What is up with that?! :hammer:

[Surya]

i haven't seen Sindhu Bhairavi fully though i've heard of it and seen parts...songs are great....:musicsmile:....:thumbsup:....

Oh u should see it, it's a KB/Ilayaraja Classic! 8-)

[thamiz]

SeriousA I never thought that illegimate children can never have proper lives or premarital sex is wrong is the message that KB wanted to spread through this movie :roll:

Dont worry, we will make you think of several things you overlooked for sure! :roll:

[thamiz]

I am not saying that the answer is to throw out the idea of virtue - that would be silly indeed.

And why is that SILLY, anyway :?: I think it makes LOTS OF SENSE too if you analyze it carefully in your approach!

Then what are you saying EXACTLY?

Admire, love, have sex and give the child to the one needs it and move on, or WHAT :?:

What is the big deal, huh ? We live only once so, enjoy anything comes as fun and move on, right :?:

[thinkfloyd]

:rotfl: :rotfl2:

[Nerd]

Well well well my two cents :P

1. What suhAsini did was atrocious, IMHO. I mean you can admire a person but that doesnt mean that you should sleep with him. That too he is a married man and physically/mentally committed with his wife for a long time. How can sivakumar even think of sleeping with another woman ? suhAsini's part was even worse. She likes him. Well and good, but sleeping with him :huh:

2. Pre-marital sex, I would concur with the majority here. If its mutual I dont have any problems. But sleeping with another woman after you are lawfully committted with your wife is not acceptable at all 8-)

[kb]

:oops: :oops:
this is just a thought.. do not take it seriously..

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:

summa bandhaakaga pre-marital sex is ok athu ithu solla kudaathu..

if she is gonna marry him. then absolutely fine.. but it is not sure :roll: :roll:

neenga solra maathiri paatha.. sila ketta vaartha ellam nalla vaarthaiya maaridum :?

[thinkfloyd]

1. What suhAsini did was atrocious, IMHO. I mean you can admire a person but that doesnt mean that you should sleep with him. That too he is a married man and physically/mentally committed with his wife for a long time. How can sivakumar even think of sleeping with another woman ? suhAsini's part was even worse. She likes him. Well and good, but sleeping with him :huh:

Right or wrong, these things happen and K.B showed that in this movie and also how it destroys both their lives. I don't think anyone here said what she or SK did was fair. SS only said that Suhasini fell in love with him (right or wrong is a different issue) and its generally, not always inevitable that love leads to consummation.
Of course its not fair on the part of Suhasini and SK and SS didn't say it was...



2. Pre-marital sex, I would concur with the majority here. If its mutual I dont have any problems.
adhuvE sila pErukku problem-a irukku! :roll:

[thinkfloyd]

:oops: :oops:
this is just a thought.. do not take it seriously..

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:

summa bandhaakaga pre-marital sex is ok athu ithu solla kudaathu..

if she is gonna marry him. then absolutely fine.. but it is not sure :roll: :roll:

neenga solra maathiri paatha.. sila ketta vaartha ellam nalla vaarthaiya maaridum :?

KB,

"come to know that..." means the husband/wife ku theriya varudhu.. adhaavadhu avanga partner solla marachadhu apparama theriyudhu... anyone would be hurt/upset/angry if his/her partner has been dishonest...

Otherwise, if it doesn't come as a surprise and both the individuals are honest about their past experiences,
There's a maxim:
"The past is your turf. I won't step in. Let's share our present and future, 'cos that's what i'm interested in".

[Nerd]

Floyd: I was neither targetting SS nor vouching for anyone here. I just said what I feel is right. Of course KB had every rights to make that as a movie. Just that I dint like the movie :)

KB: I for one will not have any problems if she is willing to be loyal ONLY with me after marriage 8-)

[podalangai]

What is the big deal, huh ? We live only once so, enjoy anything comes as fun and move on, right :?:
Some do think that way. I don't. I think Indian society needs morality in order to survive because it is such a fundamental part of our society.

What I don't like is the way many people think a man having an affair (or pre-marital sex) is less serious than a woman having an affair (or pre-marital sex), or that where there is an affair (or pre-marital sex) it is the woman who is to blame or who deserves most censure. In other words, what I'm arguing against is the free pass given to men. I'd like the higher standard to be applied to men as well, not just women. :)

[kb]

KB,

"come to know that..." means the husband/wife ku theriya varudhu.. adhaavadhu avanga partner solla marachadhu apparama theriyudhu... anyone would be hurt/upset/angry if his/her partner has been dishonest...

Otherwise, if it doesn't come as a surprise and both the individuals are honest about their past experiences,
There's a maxim:
"The past is your turf. I won't step in. Let's share our present and future, 'cos that's what i'm interested in".

to have a beautiful 60 yr relationship .. they can spare sex for 3 or 4 years.
In TN most of men are mentally involved.. chumma just for fun ellam niraiya peru irukamaataanga..
there is a high chance of blackmailing in future.. ivlo elavellam thevaiya.. better to get married early :roll:

[kb]

I'd like the higher standard to be applied to men as well, not just women. :)

ithu nyayam :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[kb]

Innum koda 80% veetla ketta vartha pesa avlo yosipaanga..

oru vaarthai.. athu pesina enna aaga poguthu.. just a sound..

athuke ivlo yosikum bothu.. ithellam.. :yessir:

[Surya]

:oops: :oops:
this is just a thought.. do not take it seriously..

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:

That's my point! Once u stop expecting something like this, then there is no disappointment or any need for emoticons like ":twisted:" wat-so-ever! :lol2: :wink:




if she is gonna marry him. then absolutely fine.. but it is not sure :roll: :roll:


So u HAVE TO marry the person u have sex with?! :banghead: It's possible to have sex with anyone good looking, but not possible to live with them! :huh:

Marriage is more than just Sexual Relations. 8-) Sex is just mere Sex.

[kb]

So u HAVE TO marry the person u have sex with?! :banghead:

:lol: :lol:

then whats wrong in having sex with another person after marraige..
what does loyalty has do with it.. its just sex na :roll:

why do u expect this from her after marraige.. is something wrong with that..

[podalangai]

So u HAVE TO marry the person u have sex with?! :banghead:

It's possible to have sex with anyone good looking, but not possible to live with them! :huh:
What is the significance of sex to you, Surya? Nothing? Just something two people do to give each other pleasure? Nothing deeper than telling someone a funny joke?

[thamiz]

Some do think that way. I don't.

Really?


I think Indian society needs morality in order to survive because it is such a fundamental part of our society.

Which society DONT NEED morality besides animals?

Educate me, please, on societies which least cared about morals and successful!

So, there is nothing wrong even if Shivakumar, his wife slokshana amd his girl friend, suhAshini share the bed and LIVE happily as long as they mutually agreed :?:

Why do we need morals at all :?: Right :?: :roll:


I'd like the higher standard to be applied to men as well, not just women. :)

Who said Shivakumar is not guilty here :?:

[Surya]

then whats wrong in having sex with another person after marraige..

After marriage ur n a commitment. 8-) Loyalty is required for marriage.

In Dating and Sex, Loyalty only applies until ur with that person. Which in many cases is only a matter of months. :)

I don't agree with sleeping with someone when in a commitment. Marriage or Dating. That obviously is cheating.


why do u expect this from her after marraige.. is something wrong with that..

Because marriage is a commitment. I would expect loyalty in dating also. Dating is also a commitment. Once the relationship is over, (break-up) then I Obviously no longer expect Loyalty...

All I'm saying is:

Don't cheat on someone when ur committed to them. If not committed, then do what you want. It's not cheating if u not in a binding relationship.

I don't see how Pre-marital sex can be seen as cheating. :?

[Surya]

So u HAVE TO marry the person u have sex with?! :banghead:

It's possible to have sex with anyone good looking, but not possible to live with them! :huh:
What is the significance of sex to you, Surya? Nothing? Just something two people do to give each other pleasure? Nothing deeper than telling someone a funny joke?

It can be Deeper Podalangai. It has all the possibilities to be Deeper. In Many Occations it is.

But it doesn't HAVE TO be Deeper. It could just be what u said. The Act of 2 ppl plesaureing each other.

It could be both.

But what I'm saying is, it's insane to make it compulsary to get married to the person who you have sex with.

[podalangai]

Some do think that way. I don't.

Really?
Yes. :)




I think Indian society needs morality in order to survive because it is such a fundamental part of our society.

Which society DONT NEED morality besides animals?

Educate me, please, on societies which least cared about morals and successful!
I said "Indian society" because we were talking about an Indian movie about Indian society. I think all societies are better off with morality. But, being Indian, I am somewhat more concerned about Indian society than I am about the society in Burkina Faso.


So, there is nothing wrong even if Shivakumar, his wife slokshana amd his girl friend, suhAshini share the bed and LIVE happily as long as they mutually agreed :?:

It would be quite wrong.



I'd like the higher standard to be applied to men as well, not just women. :)
Who said Shivakumar is not guilty here :?:

I think he is equally guilty. But would society agree? I have always seen boys who go around with girls getting off more lightly than girls who go around with boys.

[podalangai]

So u HAVE TO marry the person u have sex with?! :banghead:

It's possible to have sex with anyone good looking, but not possible to live with them! :huh:
What is the significance of sex to you, Surya? Nothing? Just something two people do to give each other pleasure? Nothing deeper than telling someone a funny joke?

It can be Deeper Podalangai. It has all the possibilities to be Deeper. In Many Occations it is.

But it doesn't HAVE TO be Deeper. It could just be what u said. The Act of 2 ppl plesaureing each other.

Talking can be a deep, meaningful experience if done with someone you love and a fairly shallow experience with a total stranger. If you're saying that having sex needn't involve more of a commitment than having a chat, our views are so far apart that there's no point in taking the discussion further.

[Surya]

So, there is nothing wrong even if Shivakumar, his wife slokshana amd his girl friend, suhAshini share the bed and LIVE happily as long as they mutually agreed :?:

It would be quite wrong.


Who is setting these rules of what is "RIGHT" and "WRONG" ? Why should they not be broken?

I'm not saying I support threesomes, but I'm just curious. :lol:

[podalangai]

Who is setting these rules of what is "RIGHT" and "WRONG" ?


The same people who set any moral rules.


Why should they not be broken?


The same reason any moral rules should not be broken.

[thamiz]

So, there is nothing wrong even if Shivakumar, his wife slokshana amd his girl friend, suhAshini share the bed and LIVE happily as long as they mutually agreed :?:


I t would be quite wrong.

WHY is that :?:

I thought they are much more civilized and they mutually agreed to each other in this DEAL.

I dont understand WHY that is SO wrong :?:

Can you EXPLAIN me WHY that is SO WRONG :?:

[podalangai]

So, there is nothing wrong even if Shivakumar, his wife slokshana amd his girl friend, suhAshini share the bed and LIVE happily as long as they mutually agreed :?:


I t would be quite wrong.

WHY is that :?:

I thought they are much more civilized and they mutually agreed to each other.

I dont understand WHY that is SO wrong :?:

Can you EXPLAIN me WHY????????????????

I don't think people should be able to mutually agree to do anything they want to. If, for example, two people agree that one of them will kill and eat the other (as happened in Germany some months ago), it is quite immoral and wrong even though it's something they mutually agreed to do. The same applies here.

There is a Western view that a society is more civilised the more permissive it gets. I disagree quite strongly with this view. :)

[Surya]

If you're saying that having sex needn't involve more of a commitment than having a chat

:o noooo. :lol: Maybe what I said came out wrong. Lemme rephrase it.

Getting sexually involved with a person u meet on a bus is sickening IMO, I can't speak for others.

But that commitment doesn't necessarily have to be something as serious as marriage.

I don't see anything wrong if 2 ppl who are dating have sex, and then after a few weeks or so decide to go their seperate ways.

Dating is still a commitment. but no way is it even close to being as serious as marriage. :)

That's why I also said that one shouldn't be forced to marry someone just because they had sex with them :)

[thamiz]

I don't think people should be able to mutually agree to do anything they want to.

What is your problem as long as they dont come in your way :?:


If, for example, two people agree that one of them will kill and eat the other (as happened in Germany some months ago), it is quite immoral and wrong even though it's something they mutually agreed to do. The same applies here.

BUT, nobody killed anybody there in the above scenario I DESCRIBED !!! :roll:


There is a Western view that a society is more civilised the more permissive it gets. I disagree quite strongly with this view. :)

So what is the right view :?:

[Surya]

If, for example, two people agree that one of them will kill and eat the other (as happened in Germany some months ago), it is quite immoral and wrong even though it's something they mutually agreed to do. The same applies here.

But that's illegal. That's murder. Where as the example in this case, 3somes aren't.

So when it isn't illegal, and has mutual consent, what makes it immoral? Because those who set "morals" frown upon this?

Don't take me wrong, I'm not arguing. :) I'm just trying to understand this.

[podalangai]

I don't think people should be able to mutually agree to do anything they want to.

What is your problem as long as they dont come in your way :?:
My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling. I don't think all these acts should be illegal, and I'm not saying that we should put people in jail for sleeping around. :) However, I do believe that not sleeping around is better, and I think it should be supported as a moral principle, rather than being denigrated with its breach being glorified, as it is all too frequently done nowadays.



If, for example, two people agree that one of them will kill and eat the other (as happened in Germany some months ago), it is quite immoral and wrong even though it's something they mutually agreed to do. The same applies here.

BUT, nobody killed anybody there in the above scenario!!! :roll:
No, which is why there is a difference between something that is a criminal action and something which is an immoral action. They produce different degrees of harm, but that doesn't change the fact that both produce harm in their own way.



There is a Western view that a society is more civilised the more permissive it gets. I disagree quite strongly with this view. :)
So what is the right view :?:
I think permissiveness should be tempered by a strong dose of morality. I do not think that believing in upholding values is a sign of backwardness.

[thamiz]

podalangaay:

That is what (your defense here) exactly I am trying to say!

Now you seem to get the fact that there is a NEED for MORALS in any society which cant be explained scientifically or logically either!

[Surya]

My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling.

Well...all of the immoral behavior which u had said earlier (3somes, Pre-Marital Sex etc) do happen a great deal in western countries.

Do u think that western society is Unraveling? :) Or suffering any of that "harm" which you talked about?

[podalangai]

But that's illegal. That's murder. Where as the example in this case, 3somes aren't.

So when it isn't illegal, and has mutual consent, what makes it immoral? Because those who set "morals" frown upon this?

Don't take me wrong, I'm not arguing. :) I'm just trying to understand this.
Murder is not always illegal. Murder done in self-defence is legal in many parts of the war. Murder done in the course of a war is celebrated and will earn you medals (Italo Calvino wrote a lovely short story on this theme, by the way). However, murder done with consent is usually illegal. Why is that so? Why do we treat it differently? The answer boils down to morality. You can't treat law as being something entirely different from morality, because much of it is justified by reference to moral principles. :)

Some moral rules are seen as being so fundamental that their breach must be punished by the state. Others are left to society to punish. What you are saying amounts to saying that if a rule is left to society to punish, then it shouldn't be enforced. Or that all rules should only be enforced and punished by the state. I hope you see why those positions aren't tenable. :)

[thamiz]

My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling.

Well...all of the immoral behavior which u had said earlier (3somes, etc) do happen a great deal in western countries. ?

What do you mean by great deal ??

How many percent is involved in such, according to YOU :?:

[podalangai]

podalangaay:

That is what (your defense here) exactly I am trying to say!

Now you seem to get the fact that there is a NEED for MORALS in any society which cant be explained scientifically or logically either!

This is what I was trying to say all along. I am a little tired today, though, so I was probably just expressing myself quite badly. :)

[thamiz]

That is okay, podalangaay! :)

Let us get what surya is trying to say NOW!

[kb]

namba aalunga already.. friends,lover,wife vachi confuse aagaraanga..

ithula sex partner vera :banghead:

so surya where do u place this.. wait letme guess.

between friends and lover.

say like.. how to ask a girl out for a night :oops: :oops: :oops:

ithellaam ninachaave :sigh2: :sigh2: :angry2: :angry2: :argue: :argue:

[thamiz]

My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling.

Well...all of the immoral behavior which u had said earlier (3somes, etc) do happen a great deal in western countries. ?

What do you mean by great deal ??

How many percent is involved in such, according to YOU :?:

SURYA!!!

Come up with a # here, please!!!

[Surya]

But that's illegal. That's murder. Where as the example in this case, 3somes aren't.

So when it isn't illegal, and has mutual consent, what makes it immoral? Because those who set "morals" frown upon this?

Don't take me wrong, I'm not arguing. :) I'm just trying to understand this.
Murder is not always illegal. Murder done in self-defence is legal in many parts of the war. Murder done in the course of a war is celebrated and will earn you medals (Italo Calvino wrote a lovely short story on this theme, by the way). However, murder done with consent is usually illegal. Why is that so? Why do we treat it differently? The answer boils down to morality. You can't treat law as being something entirely different from morality, because much of it is justified by reference to moral principles. :)

Some moral rules are seen as being so fundamental that their breach must be punished by the state. Others are left to society to punish. What you are saying amounts to saying that if a rule is left to society to punish, then it shouldn't be enforced. Or that all rules should only be enforced and punished by the state. I hope you see why those positions aren't tenable. :)

Gotcha!! :D I do see the need for Morality in a Society. It is vital. But I just don't agree with the things considered as "breaching morality"

Of Course there are some universal ones like not cheating on ur spouse etc. :D For the most part, Definitions of morals change from place to place and time to time.

A Widow getting married again was considered immoral not too long ago in India. I think Pre-Marital sex would also turn out to be the same way. And the expectation of Virginity (Not chastity) from a spouse would also dissappear. :)

[thamiz]

I dont think allowing premarital sex is going to make India a Super power! If that is the case, so many african countries would have been super power by now!

[Surya]

My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling.

Well...all of the immoral behavior which u had said earlier (3somes, etc) do happen a great deal in western countries. ?

What do you mean by great deal ??

How many percent is involved in such, according to YOU :?:

Why have u deleted Premarital Sex from my post and highlighted threesomes? :lol:

Anyway, 3somes, I would guess that only a minority do so. If u must have my guess of the number, I would say 2%. But I never advocated Threesomes. :lol2:

Premarital Sex....I would say 90% of Americans if not more, do Practice it. 8-)

[thamiz]

Why have u deleted Premarital Sex from my post and highlighted threesomes? :lol:

Two different issues, that is why! 8-)


Anyway, 3somes, I would guess that only a minority do so. If u must have my guess of the number, I would say 2%. But I never advocated Threesomes. :lol2:


That is absolutely nothing for making any change in the society!

Perverts and whores and sluts and pimps are always there in that same percentage! 8-)

[Surya]

namba aalunga already.. friends,lover,wife vachi confuse aagaraanga..

ithula sex partner vera :banghead:

so surya where do u place this.. wait letme guess.

between friends and lover.

say like.. how to ask a girl out for a night :oops: :oops: :oops:


Tips Venuma?! :lol:

Okay Seriously! I don't see how a person can't differentiate between a friend and a lover. :?

This is where ur not understanding what I'm saying Kb! :D I'm not saying that ppl should all go out and have sex partners! :banghead:

[Surya]

Why have u deleted Premarital Sex from my post and highlighted threesomes? :lol:

Two different issues, that is why! 8-)


Anyway, 3somes, I would guess that only a minority do so. If u must have my guess of the number, I would say 2%. But I never advocated Threesomes. :lol2:


That is absolutely nothing for making any change in the society!

Perverts and whores and sluts and pimps are always there in that same percentage! 8-)

Exactly! :)

But Premarital sex is present to a great deal in western nations, are they're societies unraveling? :huh:

[thamiz]

But Premarital sex is present to a great deal in western nations, are they're societies unraveling? :huh:

Even africans practice that! 8-)

WHY do you SKIP them ? :roll: :roll:

[Surya]

I dont think allowing premarital sex is going to make India a Super power! If that is the case, so many african countries would have been super power by now!

Did anyone say that PMS is gonna make india a Superpower? :confused2: Or is that just a random Karuthu? :)

[Selvan]

I dont think allowing premarital sex is going to make India a Super power! If that is the case, so many african countries would have been super power by now!

:clap:

[Surya]

But Premarital sex is present to a great deal in western nations, are they're societies unraveling? :huh:

Even africans practice that! 8-)

WHY do you SKIP them ? :roll: :roll:

So Organized Societies like in Western Nations Practice it. Unorganized Societies like in African Nations Practice it. 8-) My Point Exactly... PMS doesn't unravel a society just because it breaches the walls of Morality in some countries. 8-)

So Why is it being opposed?

[thamiz]

I dont think allowing premarital sex is going to make India a Super power! If that is the case, so many african countries would have been super power by now!

Did anyone say that PMS is gonna make india a Superpower? :confused2: Or is that just a random Karuthu? :)

But that is how you guys are projecting. YOu guys make it look as if once we allow premarital sex freely, India is going to go forward or something! :lol:

Yeah, they will go forward in teenage girls' pregnancies ONLY !

[thamiz]

* So Organized Societies like in Western Nations Practice it.

* Unorganized Societies like in African Nations Practice it. 8-)

That gets you NOWHERE!!!

That is the whole point! 8-)

[kb]

Yeah, they will go forward in teenage girls' pregnancies ONLY !

and spread disease.. aprom athuku thaniya advertisement,camp ellaam nadathanum :oops:

[Surya]

* So Organized Societies like in Western Nations Practice it.

* Unorganized Societies like in African Nations Practice it. 8-)

That gets you NOWHERE!!!

That is the whole point! 8-)

WTF!? :lol: Then why do u oppose it? What is it to u, if Rani and Raja have Premarital sex? :huh: If it has no such effect on Society as a whole, (U agreed that it hasn't created chaos in contrasting cultures) then why do u oppose that idea? 8-)

[Surya]

Yeah, they will go forward in teenage girls' pregnancies ONLY !

and spread disease.. aprom athuku thaniya advertisement,camp ellaam nadathanum :oops:

India is Far Far ahead of Western Nations in terms of Aids. :oops: :oops:

Enna solreenge? :huh: PMS-e society normalize panna ppl will go out of control? What do u think of indians? :x JK! :wink:

[Surya]

Yeah, they will go forward in teenage girls' pregnancies ONLY !

and spread disease.. aprom athuku thaniya advertisement,camp ellaam nadathanum :oops:

Actually intha maathiri vishayangala pathi pesumbothu naraiya peyar :oops: maathiri emoticons use pannurathunaalathaan there is so much ignorance about Sexually Transmitted Diseases in India. :cry:

[kb]

India is Far Far ahead of Western Nations in terms of Aids. :oops: :oops:

Enna solreenge? :huh: PMS-e society normalize panna ppl will go out of control? What do u think of indians? :x JK! :wink:

paathilla.. PMS illama ippadina .. ninachi paaru :x

its simple that.. india will be better and improve a lot without these..

we have lot of problems and no need one more

[kb]

Actually intha maathiri vishayangala pathi pesumbothu naraiya peyar :oops: maathiri emoticons use pannurathunaalathaan there is so much ignorance about Sexually Transmitted Diseases in India. :cry:

apidi naachi bayapaduthee.. population koraikalaamnu thaan :?

[Surya]

India is Far Far ahead of Western Nations in terms of Aids. :oops: :oops:

Enna solreenge? :huh: PMS-e society normalize panna ppl will go out of control? What do u think of indians? :x JK! :wink:

paathilla.. PMS illama ippadina .. ninachi paaru :x

its simple that.. india will be better and improve a lot without these..

we have lot of problems and no need one more

:rotfl2:

That really puts indians in bad light! :x ur making them look like they're sexual animals with no self control! :roll:

India is already in the Top 5 countries with the most Aids Patients DISPITE PMS being banned by society! Even though the majoritiy of the population doesn't engage in Pre-Marital sex! Ur saying if Society accepted PMS it would get worse? How?

How is it that Americans who have accepted PMS don't have this prob to such a huge degree but Indians do????? Sollu Kb! :P

[Surya]

* So Organized Societies like in Western Nations Practice it.

* Unorganized Societies like in African Nations Practice it. 8-)

That gets you NOWHERE!!!

That is the whole point! 8-)

WTF!? :lol: Then why do u oppose it? What is it to u, if Rani and Raja have Premarital sex? :huh: If it has no such effect on Society as a whole, (U agreed that it hasn't created chaos in contrasting cultures) then why do u oppose that idea? 8-)

:roll: :roll: Enge Reply Kaanum....:roll: :roll: :lol2:

En Replyku mattum Sila Pala "!!!!!!!!!!!!!" lam potu ketaange. :P

[kb]

India is already in the Top 5 countries with the most Aids Patients DISPITE PMS being banned by society! Even though the majoritiy of the population doesn't engage in Pre-Marital sex! Ur saying if Society accepted PMS it would get worse? How?

How is it that Americans who have accepted PMS don't have this prob to such a huge degree but Indians do????? Sollu Kb! :P

most of the places whichu say are remote villages where people get affected.. they are not aware of it..
engagin in PMS will no way decrease the percentage.. infact will increase.
america is a developed country. do think since they accepted PMS the percentage of AIDS is less?? :roll:

[Surya]

India is already in the Top 5 countries with the most Aids Patients DISPITE PMS being banned by society! Even though the majoritiy of the population doesn't engage in Pre-Marital sex! Ur saying if Society accepted PMS it would get worse? How?

How is it that Americans who have accepted PMS don't have this prob to such a huge degree but Indians do????? Sollu Kb! :P

most of the places whichu say are remote villages where people get affected.. they are not aware of it..
engagin in PMS will no way decrease the percentage.. infact will increase.
america is a developed country. do think since they accepted PMS the percentage of AIDS is less?? :roll:

Okay, so the ppl that make up these numbers for Aids Patients are in Remote Villages u say? :) If that's the case, then they don't practice PMS do they?? Why is it prevalent there?

Also Banning PMS isn't going to help in anyway. Most of STD's are contracted from Prostitutes. PMS will definatly reduce the number of youngsters going to Prostitutes wouldn't it?

Banning PMS isn't the answer. It only makes things worse. To cut down on STD's, awareness is the only way. For that to happen, topics like this should come into every household and ppl discussing shouldn't be :oops:

:)

[kb]

Okay, so the ppl that make up these numbers for Aids Patients are in Remote Villages u say? :) If that's the case, then they don't practice PMS do they?? Why is it prevalent there?

Also Banning PMS isn't going to help in anyway. Most of STD's are contracted from Prostitutes. PMS will definatly reduce the number of youngsters going to Prostitutes wouldn't it?

Banning PMS isn't the answer. It only makes things worse. To cut down on STD's, awareness is the only way. For that to happen, topics like this should come into every household and ppl discussing shouldn't be :oops:

:)

i said PMS will increase the percentage of AIDS.There are lot of other reasons from AIDS in india.. which is not related to this topic.u can google it :D

sure PMS will reduce number of youngster goin to area like that but sure increase the number of prostitutes.

r u telling to know abt STD u need to have sex :roll:
awareness is different from PMS dude

[kb]

k .. dude. have some work.. will catch u later..

[Surya]

Okay, so the ppl that make up these numbers for Aids Patients are in Remote Villages u say? :) If that's the case, then they don't practice PMS do they?? Why is it prevalent there?

Also Banning PMS isn't going to help in anyway. Most of STD's are contracted from Prostitutes. PMS will definatly reduce the number of youngsters going to Prostitutes wouldn't it?

Banning PMS isn't the answer. It only makes things worse. To cut down on STD's, awareness is the only way. For that to happen, topics like this should come into every household and ppl discussing shouldn't be :oops:

:)

i said PMS will increase the percentage of AIDS.There are lot of other reasons from AIDS in india.. which is not related to this topic.u can google it :D

sure PMS will reduce number of youngster goin to area like that but sure increase the number of prostitutes.

r u telling to know abt STD u need to have sex :roll:
awareness is different from PMS dude

I didn't say that accepting PMS by itself will cut down on STDs, but banning it isn't the answer either. 8-)

C ya. :D :wave:

[Hulkster]

I see PMS being talked about here...but first of all...do the young ones understand the true purpose of sex? Everyone knows its for human reproduction but most youngsters without knowledge mistake it for some daily beach activity just derived for pleasure. Add to that them not wondering about its consequences if they do it
before they achieve their goals or dreams and for girls their life will get affected if they do get pregnant as it will be a almost fullstop is what they want to do..bringing up a human child is no easy task.

In reality, whether its PMS or AMS, sex is totally legal and no sin if it is done with mutual consent with both parties. The society needs to recognise the parties involved as individuals with their own rights and own ability to decide instead of making decisions for them partaking to their own beliefs. This recognition of individual rights happens greatly in westernised countries but here due to traditions and cultures and stuff it is given a massive kick and also give more reasons for curiosity of what sex might be to youngsters.

As for the consequences that arise out of sex we need to educate the youngsters what it is and when we should do it instead of saying dunt do it before marriage and scare them when we are just arousing their curiosity more and more.

Lastly let us remember that without sex...the human race is doomed...we need to reproduce just like other mammals and having the feel to sex before marriage is not a bad feeling...humans are naturally born with lust and they will get the feeling to have sex if they spot a mate just like other animals...the point is whether they can control it and they understand when to do it.

[Hulkster]

Btw i would also like to add that the word marriage does not mean both parties will only have sex with each other...marriage is just a physical formality...but it is not a secure lock that makes both a man and a woman stop from having extra marital affairs....to do that both parties must understand each other and must be sure they want to live each other...if not even if you do a marriage ceremony in front of fire or any spiritual way it still will not have any effect on reducing extra marital affairs and problems. :D

[Surya]

The society needs to recognise the parties involved as individuals with their own rights and own ability to decide instead of making decisions for them partaking to their own beliefs.


As for the consequences that arise out of sex we need to educate the youngsters what it is and when we should do it instead of saying dunt do it before marriage and scare them when we are just arousing their curiosity more and more.


Btw i would also like to add that the word marriage does not mean both parties will only have sex with each other...marriage is just a physical formality...but it is not a secure lock that makes both a man and a woman stop from having extra marital affairs....to do that both parties must understand each other and must be sure they want to live each other...if not even if you do a marriage ceremony in front of fire or any spiritual way it still will not have any effect on reducing extra marital affairs and problems.

YESSS!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hulk-u! :D U are truely great Mr. Hong Kong Chandrashekar! 8-) :P

[Lambretta]

:oops: :oops:
this is just a thought.. do not take it seriously..

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:

summa bandhaakaga pre-marital sex is ok athu ithu solla kudaathu..
:exactly: :clap: Good point KB! :D

[groucho070]

Maan, this thread started from sex in Sindhu Bairavi to AIDS. Great discussion, though. Nice to know mentality, attitude are changing amongst Indians all over the world. And Joe, didn't know there was a real angry man inside you. Take it easy.

[Lambretta]

My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling.

Well...all of the immoral behavior which u had said earlier (3somes, Pre-Marital Sex etc) do happen a great deal in western countries.

Do u think that western society is Unraveling? :) Or suffering any of that "harm" which you talked about?
It sure is machi.....altho its sumthing tat hasnt been realised by the majority of the society ther as yet.....80% of Americans, as a case point, still think tat the lifestyle/attitudes they hav (w/ regards to pmsex etc.) is the right one & tat ther is no need for change/correction....but I'm not sure if u belive this, ther r a fair no. of girls as well as guys among US teens who've now decided to take a stand against pmsex (& even other things like alcohol, drugs etc.)...I rem. reading a report bout this in the papers a coupla yrs ago...not sure how far this has progressed by now tho....

[Lambretta]

As for the consequences that arise out of sex we need to educate the youngsters what it is and when we should do it instead of saying dunt do it before marriage and scare them when we are just arousing their curiosity more and more.
Good point hulk.....:)
Reminds me of this story bout a man who goes to the doctor & the latter gives him a medicine telling him tat he shud not think of a dancing monkey when taking the medicine......& as u cud figure out, as & when the guy remembers to take the medicine, he can think of nothing other than the dancing monkey....:lol: :D

[Lambretta]

Yeah, they will go forward in teenage girls' pregnancies ONLY !

and spread disease.. aprom athuku thaniya advertisement,camp ellaam nadathanum :oops:
:lol: KB, +ve-a yosi partha atleast athu naale appo namma naatla evolovo unemployed perukellam vaelehal kedaikum'illaya? :wink: :lol:

[Lambretta]

How is it that Americans who have accepted PMS don't have this prob to such a huge degree but Indians do????? Sollu Kb! :P
Anna Suri, maybe they dont have physically visible problems like AIDS etc. (as opposed to India) but tat doesnt meanthey dont hav psychological/emotional problems arising outta this......& the reason it doesnt make em stop it is cos they dont know a way out of it! They've been so used to it for so many gens. they apparently cant think of an alternative lifestyle to set for themselves... :)

[kb]

Yeah, they will go forward in teenage girls' pregnancies ONLY !

and spread disease.. aprom athuku thaniya advertisement,camp ellaam nadathanum :oops:
:lol: KB, +ve-a yosi partha atleast athu naale appo namma naatla evolovo unemployed perukellam vaelehal kedaikum'illaya? :wink: :lol:

naanum +ve-a yosichi paathaen.. HIV+ :wink:

[Surya]

My problem is that some acts, if done by too many people, will lead to society unravelling.

Well...all of the immoral behavior which u had said earlier (3somes, Pre-Marital Sex etc) do happen a great deal in western countries.

Do u think that western society is Unraveling? :) Or suffering any of that "harm" which you talked about?

It sure is machi.....altho its sumthing tat hasnt been realised by the majority of the society ther as yet.....80% of Americans, as a case point, still think tat the lifestyle/attitudes they hav (w/ regards to pmsex etc.) is the right one & tat ther is no need for change/correction....

YES! And there isn't a need for change when it comes to this. :)


but I'm not sure if u belive this, ther r a fair no. of girls as well as guys among US teens who've now decided to take a stand against pmsex (& even other things like alcohol, drugs etc.)...I rem. reading a report bout this in the papers a coupla yrs ago...not sure how far this has progressed by now tho....

O come on machi! Ur giving drungs the same treatment as PMS? :lol2: I have said earlier that not 100% of the population practices PMS, (My Congradulations to them, it's their choice) but it gets pretty close.

Also:

I'm not saying that PMS SHOULD AND MUST HAPPEN! All I'm saying is that ppl who engage in this shouldn't be frowned upon in Society! :) Hell, it's their life right? :huh: :D

[Surya]

How is it that Americans who have accepted PMS don't have this prob to such a huge degree but Indians do????? Sollu Kb! :P

Anna Suri, maybe they dont have physically visible problems like AIDS etc. (as opposed to India) but tat doesnt meanthey dont hav psychological/emotional problems arising outta this......& the reason it doesnt make em stop it is cos they dont know a way out of it! They've been so used to it for so many gens. they apparently cant think of an alternative lifestyle to set for themselves... :)

Many ppl convince themselves with invisible reasons like this. :P When we've been brought up to think that something is bad, we always have a small voice telling us it's bad and will have some negative effect sooner or later. But those thoughts aren't always true. :)

Reg this, I don't believe it. I will when there is an official Scientific Study on this matter. :wink:

[Hulkster]

:oops: :oops:
this is just a thought.. do not take it seriously..

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:

summa bandhaakaga pre-marital sex is ok athu ithu solla kudaathu..

Of course some of us will feel uneasy...but trying to make a person sound like a criminal just because he/she had sex before is unwarranted and abit too much...sex is no sin remember...when we want to live with this person all we got to worry is that the person loves us and wants to live with us...if we take into account things like that then we would have problem living with most persons...drop this "virginity" thing....what is important is the character and truthfulness of the person we are going to live with.

BTW for people who view the body as the object of purity rather than character...they will have loads of problems living with people who love them alot but have had sex before compared to those who are more into the character,the soul...besides the body is temporary...it can be gone to ashes any moment :D

[Hulkster]

Surya, the American viewpoint of sex is more of a healthy daily activity and in a way lust-satisfying sort of activity....however some of them are so into it that they fail to realise its purpose is not for pleasure but reproduction...in a way they have totally mistaken the idea of sex add to that their flawed education which does not state when is the most appropriate time to have sex(not age related time..but rather consent and with the person whom you want to live with)..that is where their problem lies..if they could fix this problem you will see none of these gangbang,threesomes and whatever sexual activities they have invented.

Guys as i said dunt differentiate sex as PMS and AMS...sex is always the same whether you do it before or after marriage....it is always the mutual consent of two individuals with less significance whether they are "married" or not....do you guys realise that if a husband forces his wife to have sex..its rape and a crime rather than what some traditionalists deem to be perfectly legal in a marriage(whether forced or not..if your married theres no crime sort of mentality). So what we need to understand about sex is when should these two individuals have it(taking into account their goals,lifestyle,surrounding relationships) and whether they want to live together(if they are just doing it for curiosity then sex must be avoided).

[pavalamani pragasam]

Sadly the fact there are still a vast majority of girls who do not want to hold the hands of any & every boy except her only man's is conveniently overlooked by those who are quick to bash Indian 'hypocrisy' about our ancient sense of values called 'culture'! :(
You are missing the point. Nobody told any girl to hold the hands of men she isn't going to marry. The point is, not all girls are like that and there is nothing wrong with the other type as well. If you call "not holding hands" or chastity as the paragon of *virtue*, i'm afraid that's a very narrow point of view.

BTW, talking about our 'ancient culture', what do you think of Khajuraho, Suchindram etc??? What about men having a hundred wives, women having many husbands in certain matriarchal societies in Kerala, the playboy-ishness of Lord Krishna etc???


Is it not sensible that we become better human beings as the centuries pass by? Muscle power ruled in the stone age. Then came money power, political power etc. Today a man can't just carry away a woman of his liking. there are stringent laws against it. But it was extolled in epics of ancient times. A natural renaissance of arts, thought & governance has come into existence. A greater maturity in all our approaches & perspectives is obvious.

The past should be viewed in its own background, political, social, moral etc. For political gain kings married wife after wife as they went on conquering kingdoms. The reason for the harem. But we have come a loooooong way from those days, that period of limited awareness.

With much improved political science & the scientific progress we have made we have learnt a lot to shed off whatever was not proper for human dignity. We have redefined our moral code, not deviating, all the same, from the fundamental moral base in all societies, like for instance, Moses' Ten Commandments. Such basic guidelines ensure happy, healthy co-existence of human beings.

More accountability as social animals is the need of the day. In our democratic government rules & regulations are stipulated to ensure a happier, healthier & more dignified life for both man & woman.

If we have awareness about personal hygiene, moral pride, a proper sense of propriety & a wish for guiltless conscience many of present day ills will vanish. Beware of wrong notions about individual freedom, lack of responsibilty in a social, political setup. As we become more & more civilised the distance between man & beast should increase. Both behave differently. Our government forbids us to urinate in public places, to throw litter anywhere we please and so on to ensure a clean environment for the society of people it governs.

we need the courage to take responsibilities seriously, to weigh the consequences of our acts for ourselves AND others. An increasing 'use-and-throw' syndrome in society regarding objects AND relationships does not bode well for a civilised society.

[kb]

machi hulkster.. avanga life avanga right-u solriya.. than suicide must also be permitted... avanga life thaana..

intha intha idathula ipidi ipidi irrukanumnu oru ithu irruku..

then only its a soceity or a surrounding..

ninachathellam pannalaam apidina ellarum thani thaniya thaan irrupaanga..

[Querida]

wow interesting debate/discussion going on here...good to hear that this topic was not ignored as just a taboo thread....
even i felt that suhashini's actions were not moral
but I saw it more of a "story" than say a didactic film.

[Hulkster]

machi hulkster.. avanga life avanga right-u solriya.. than suicide must also be permitted... avanga life thaana..

intha intha idathula ipidi ipidi irrukanumnu oru ithu irruku..

then only its a soceity or a surrounding..

ninachathellam pannalaam apidina ellarum thani thaniya thaan irrupaanga..

kb wrong example use pennirukenga..the reason why i said that becos sex is no sin...without sex no human race....what your quoting are crimes and wrongs..that is of course must be disciplined and stamped out...but sex is a different matter...even the society contains individuals...even the society can be flawed with some having different opinions and all may not be pertaining to the reality.

Stamping out sex is impossible anyway as it is built inside a human's body..it is a physical function and one of the purposes of the human body which is to reproduce...if a boy/girl does see someone they are largely attracted to,lust already builds inside...not all are mind control experts to knock lust out of their minds...sex becomes a sin when someone does not consent to it regardless of the marital status and as i said can be done by a husband on a wife. But the society we live in do not take husband forcing wife cases as rape..they think they are married so its ok...thats why i dunt use society as a standard to educate about sex.

As i said what we should do is not educate them not to do it in this society or that(basically everyone are individuals no matter what beliefs they have..their life is judged and thread by them only)....we should educate them on the appropriate time of consent...that you must do it with the person whom you really want to live with so as to avoid it being misused...and also stress on the fact of it being mainly for reproduction(making baby and all that stuff).

[kb]

according to some celebrity..

sex is only thing where all our sense organs get pleasure..
and i personally think .. it can be kept as a gift to someone who u gonna be with u life long.
somethings need to be special.. it really builds a gud bond.

k.. guess i used the word sex most number of times only today . :wave:
(it doesnt mean i dont know anything abt it :lol:)

i dont think i will post anymore. discussion is goin no where :yessir:

[Hulkster]

according to some celebrity..

sex is only thing where all our sense organs get pleasure..
and i personally think .. it can be kept as a gift to someone who u gonna be with u life long.
somethings need to be special.. it really builds a gud bond.

k.. guess i used the word sex most number of times only today . :wave:
(it doesnt mean i dont know anything abt it :lol:)

i dont think i will post anymore. discussion is goin no where :yessir:

Same here kb..i also would like to do it with the one whom i love and am going to live with...if we educate sex in the form of love(love and sex are different btw)...perhaps we can make sex restricted to only a single mate whereby the mate is the one whom your going to live with.

But at the sametime it does not mean its a sin if you do have sex with someone who you dunt love...in reality as long theres consent from both sides its right..but practically it is wrong as it is being totally misunderstood...the word to stress upon here is misunderstanding :D

[crazy]

I wonder how many of us would dare to use the word "sex" infront of other people or when we r with ur families?

[NOV]

:shock:
8 pages in less than 24 hours!
summaavaa sonnaanga periyavanga, sex moves like nothing else. :lol:

my two cents:

1. Sex is not dirty. We are from the land of Kama Sutra for heaven's sake! Prudishness was forced among us, but times have changed and views have changed too.

2. While sex is not dirty, it has a place and time too. Sex is not just an activitity between two consenting people. Indulgence in sex is not only physical but largely mental too. Conscience, morality, stigma, fear, etc set it. Of course there are other factors too like unwanted pregnancy, diseases, etc.

3. Therefore what is required is EDUCATION. Teach your children, your younger siblings. With sex comes responsibility. Share with them the virtues of abstaining sex till they get married. Tell them why having sex before marriage complicates matters. Make them understand that they HAVE control over their actions.

4. At the same time, DO NOT condemn people who do not conform to your views - even if they are your children. The world needs more LOVE than values, morals or ethics. Only LOVE can overcome ALL problems. Be a loving parent, not a judge who hands out punishments.

5. Above all, never be judgemental. People have the right to live thier life as how they see fit.

[Designer]

:shock:
8 pages in less than 24 hours!
summaavaa sonnaanga periyavanga, sex moves like nothing else. :lol:

my two cents:

1. Sex is not dirty. We are from the land of Kama Sutra for heaven's sake! Prudishness was forced among us, but times have changed and views have changed too.

2. While sex is not dirty, it has a place and time too. Sex is not just an activitity between two consenting people. Indulgence in sex is not only physical but largely mental too. Conscience, morality, stigma, fear, etc set it. Of course there are other factors too like unwanted pregnancy, diseases, etc.

3. Therefore what is required is EDUCATION. Teach your children, your younger siblings. With sex comes responsibility. Share with them the virtues of abstaining sex till they get married. Tell them why having sex before marriage complicates matters. Make them understand that they HAVE control over their actions.

4. At the same time, DO NOT condemn people who do not conform to your views - even if they are your children. The world needs more LOVE than values, morals or ethics. Only LOVE can overcome ALL problems. Be a loving parent, not a judge who hands out punishments.

5. Above all, never be judgemental. People have the right to live thier life as how they see fit.

NOV : :exactly: :thumbsup:

[pavalamani pragasam]

Nov! The first 3 points OK! The last 2, I beg to differ. Because you are eliminating the important incentive- the desire to please/conform to their beloved/respected parents/elders. A very tiny tot when doing a little mischief/misdemeanour looks keenly at the face of the parent/elder around for their reaction - how far is he going to be condoned/punished/tolerated. We set silent/strict rules in our homes as the children grow up. They imbibe values from home/elders. Why do you think love & values can't co-exist?
If growing kids err in the name of peer competition in this 'free' age do we sit idle & watch? No use taking Burnol & bandage to the kid after he has burnt his fingers. It is better to admonish beforehand.

[selvakumar]

:lol:
Seems Sindhu Bhairavi had made a strong impact ! :clap: More than 8 pages :shock:

Quarter Centry Monday Ethirpaarkalaaam !! :clap:

[Lambretta]

naanum +ve-a yosichi paathaen.. HIV+ :wink:
:lol: :thumbsup: :D

[dev]

:thumbsup: @ NOV...

[Designer]

Nov! The first 3 points OK! The last 2, I beg to differ. Because you are eliminating the important incentive- the desire to please/conform to their beloved/respected parents/elders. A very tiny tot when doing a little mischief/misdemeanour looks keenly at the face of the parent/elder around for their reaction - how far is he going to be condoned/punished/tolerated. We set silent/strict rules in our homes as the children grow up. They imbibe values from home/elders. Why do you think love & values can't co-exist?
If growing kids err in the name of peer competition in this 'free' age do we sit idle & watch? No use taking Burnol & bandage to the kid after he has burnt his fingers. It is better to admonish beforehand.

PP madam, I beg to differ slightly. My approval of NOV's last three points was made in the following context : Values are important, yes, but in trying to inculcate these in their children, some parents forget that these must be imparted with Love & affection, not like an Army drill seargant. IMO, proper parental Love teaches not only right values, but also most essential things about Life - like Self sufficiency, Confidence, Right behaviour, Right thinking, Right perception of the world around, etc.

Values are definitely essential, but parents must also take into account the changing times and generation gap when educating their children about these.

[Lambretta]

YES! And there isn't a need for change when it comes to this. :)
Isnt a need for change?? Even if its sumthin for the good...? :? :roll:
Mama, I'm not sure if u'd got my earlier point! I was pointing out tat majority of those in the US r under the delusion tat the kinda lifestyle/attitudes tat they hav in this aspect of pmsex etc. r wat is right & is the only way to hav fun in life. :)


O come on machi! Ur giving drungs the same treatment as PMS? :lol2:
No machi, I dont categorise them under the same banner.....I know the degree of seriousness of one vs the other....I was merely quoting the newspaper article....:)


Also:

I'm not saying that PMS SHOULD AND MUST HAPPEN! All I'm saying is that ppl who engage in this shouldn't be frowned upon in Society! :) Hell, it's their life right? :huh: :D
Yup I'm sure we all got ur point in this regard! :)

[NOV]

Why do you think love & values can't co-exist?yes they can, but when it comes to one over another, love must supercede values.
say your child has done the despicable. isnt it better to accept that things have happened and assure the kid that your love for him/her is unchanged? or do you think it is better to disown?


No use taking Burnol & bandage to the kid after he has burnt his fingers. It is better to admonish beforehand. Actually feeling the pain is better education than mere advices. :lol:

anyway, what I am saying is: do your duty - explain why you think it is not right. but do not forsake your child just becos he/she went against your wishes.

[groucho070]

Interesting views, Nov. I kinda agree with you with most of it. Something to remember when I get married and have kids.

[Hulkster]

NOV sir :clap: :notworthy:..those were the views i wanted to hear...we always forget that even our own children will become full-grown human beings just like us...just to add to NOV sir's points..the values taught must be reflecting on reality rather than beliefs so as to avoid any misjudgement or misunderstanding of the reality when the child begins to understand the world. :D

[thamizhvaanan]

I'm not saying that PMS SHOULD AND MUST HAPPEN! All I'm saying is that ppl who engage in this shouldn't be frowned upon in Society! :) Hell, it's their life right? :huh: :D
Yup I'm sure we all got ur point in this regard! :) So, Is there any consensus here? :huh: :?

[thinkfloyd]

that is where their problem lies..if they could fix this problem you will see none of these gangbang,threesomes and whatever sexual activities they have invented.

Hulkster,
Our sculptures have far more than threesomes and gangbangs... we don't need to go to America to look for that :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

Now, you remind the Biblical parable of the Prodigal Son! Exemplary, courageous BUT hard & rare! :sigh2:
It is alright to say 'prevention is better than cure', but life is full of 'accidents', misadventures & unpleasant escapades! At those times such a dilemma of love over values occurs. Personally, I am attracted by sticklers like Pandari Bai in the old movie, 'antha naal' who is not willing to forgive treason. Again, in an old thodarkathai in Ananda Vikadan, 'thanga oosi' I think, a mother punishes her own son. But ordinarily we are surrounded by fathers & mothers only too protective of the worst criminals, their children! :sigh2:

[Hulkster]

Wokays Thinkfloyd...but since i was always thinking kamasutra was some joke used upon indians..i never knew we actually had such stuff :oops:

[kb]

:thumbsup: Nov

[Shakthiprabha.]

* SEX is not a taboo

* IT is not something to be looked down upon.

* ppl do so many mistakes, have so many wrong attitudes, behaviours, habits, characters like jealousy, spite, vengence, hatred etc..... DO WE TALK BOUT IT?

* Sex IS NOT WRONG

* When 2 ppl who are not blood related, and who belong to the opposite sex, admire, like and love each other, NEXT natural step in a relationship is sex in some cases.

* Sex outside marriage should be and must be avoided when the person is committed.

but...

* If the concerned 2 partners or the triangle dont have problem (and things are done with the consent of all the parties) ITS THEIR LIFE.... why poke our nose there?

* Movie makers are not PREACHERS !

...

[nms]

Been away from our hub for a long time..I have missed some interesting discussions.... :lol:

Presently I am reading Osho's book - "From Sex To Super Consciousness"
(Kaamathilirundhu Kadavulukku).I would recommend fellow hubbers, atleast unmarried one's to read that book.

My opinions here:

Simply, the divinity in Sex is being lost...What was once thought of a way to enlightenment for the partners has now become a general activity involving different people at a time also...:roll: Indulging in sex before or after sex is the person's wish...but if it spoils the health (i mean here physical,mental/emotional/psychological) of self,or any person in the society ( kurippaa children) , then they must give a second thought to their activity.

Vetkam, Naanam ellaam irundha thaan azaghaa irukkum....ellathulayum oru rasanai vaendaamaa..?? summa machine maathiri senjittu pona athula enna thrupthi irukkumnu enakku theriyalai.....namma thamizh ilakkiyathula illadha voodalaa,koodala,kaadhalaa??..but ellathulayum evvalavu inimaya solli irukkaanga..andha inimai ippodhaya western culturela miss aagudhey... :?:

ellorkkum ellamum nalladhaavum,inimayaavum irukkanumgradhukkaaga seidhu vaitha oru sila kattupaadugal dhaan kalaachaaram...kaalapokkil adhan arthangal maranju poi kattupaadugal mattum nikkudhu....enga paathaalum orey hypocritesaa vuruvaakkiruchu...culturai spoil pannudhunnu solra pala paeru cultureless persons....Karpa pathi paesuravarukku paarthaa moonu naalu wifes legalaa irukkaanga (illegalaa pathi kaetka padaathu)...Avaru Kannagiya pathi kooda paesuvaaru. (silai kooda thirandhu vaippaaru...::shhh: yaarukkum sollaadhenga ) Karpu rendu inathukkum podhuvaa irukkanum....adhu pengal mattum kadaipidikkanumnu pala aangal ethir paakkuraanga..chauvinists.."Aangor pen karpizhanthaal oru aanum karpai izhakkiraan"nnu Bharathi kooda solli irukkaar.

sila hypocritesa criticize panni pala thiraipadangalla solraanga...."Sindhu Bairavi"..oru paadagar vaazhkaila nadakka koodiya sambavangalnu ..oru kaRpanai kathai..padangalla ellaam morals,lessons,message theda koodaadhu (adhukku nalla puthagangal pala irukku :lol: of course nalla thiraipadangalum irukku)...andha character senjadhu sari thappunnu vivaadham thevai illai..andha directorudaya eNNangalukku oru vuruvam,oru vadivam kudukka pattu oru thiraipadamaa varudhu....everything in the movies are not real happenings..its the thoughts of the film maker.. but it doesn't mean that the whole society is thinking similar to the characters of that film...

izhuthuttae poraen..let me conclude precisely:

1.Sex is not a sin;There is a need to change in the perception on sex;Why give a weird meaning to a natural process.?
2.Proper sex education should be given to children & youngsters.
3.Learning from other's experience also, would be a wiser choice rather than learning from one's own experience.
4.Marital Fidelity is common for both the sexes.
5.Conscious Virginity before marriage is really appreciable.

[crazy]

sp akka: :)
// ITS THEIR LIFE.... why poke our nose there? //


namakkenna, naama namma vaazhkaiya ozhunga vaazhunthu povom :roll:

[Shakthiprabha.]

sp akka: :)
// ITS THEIR LIFE.... why poke our nose there? //


namakkenna, naama namma vaazhkaiya ozhunga vaazhunthu povom :roll:

yup. Thats what I SUBSCRIBE TO.

If everybody lives according to their morals and conscinece, THERE IT ENDS.

No business whatsoever to poke their nose on other's matters.

what is right to us would be wrong to them and vice versa.

(I am talkin bout personal matters only, NOT LEGAL MATTERS OR CRIMINAL matters)

[pavalamani pragasam]

:clap: nms!

[NOV]

:tq: to all who responded :bow:

one last point: I find that 99.95% of parents who have a problem with pre marital sex have never spoken to thier children about sex, leaving the dirty work to others like teachers, friends and inevitably, porn.

So, why blame kids?

[pavalamani pragasam]

The fault today lies 99% on elders/grownups only! All the avarice, consumerism, materialism, extraordinary sensuality! Kids are goaded like race horses to fulfil their parents' inordinate, insatiable, disproportionate dreams & desires. The sins of the parents are truly visited upon the children. With the crap we find around where shall the children find role models---on the screen, in the streets, in disco clubs & drug haunts? :angry2:

[Selvan]

hypocritesa criticize panni pala thiraipadangalla solraanga...."Sindhu Bairavi"..oru paadagar vaazhkaila nadakka koodiya sambavangalnu ..oru kaRpanai kathai..padangalla ellaam morals,lessons,message theda koodaadhu (adhukku nalla puthagangal pala irukku :lol: of course nalla thiraipadangalum irukku)...andha character senjadhu sari thappunnu vivaadham thevai illai..andha directorudaya eNNangalukku oru vuruvam,oru vadivam kudukka pattu oru thiraipadamaa varudhu....everything in the movies are not real happenings..its the thoughts of the film maker.. but it doesn't mean that the whole society is thinking similar to the characters of that film...

good point. it's upto us to avoid such directors. KB is perverted.

[NOV]

where shall the children find role models---on the screen, in the streets, in disco clubs & drug haunts? :angry2:.... PARENTS!

[Selvan]

:tq: to all who responded :bow:

one last point: I find that 99.95% of parents who have a problem with pre marital sex have never spoken to thier children about sex, leaving the dirty work to others like teachers, friends and inevitably, porn.

So, why blame kids?

I assume the parents you're talking about never involved in pre-marital sex(most likely). Did their parents speak to them about sex? I don't think so. But then how did they come to the conclusion that pre-marital sex is wrong? Can't blame others for one's faults.

[NOV]

selvan, things have changed so much since the last generation. it would have taken 0ne month of travel from madras to malaysia by ship during my fathers time. today, its just a matter of hours.

see this exchange of views - across the world with instant updates. unthinkable just 20 years ago.

thus with the kind of exposure kids have these days, parents have greater responsibilities. you cannot say that my parents used vEppala for sickness, so why must I take you to the hospital, can you?

[pavalamani pragasam]

Parents are too busy running after fast bucks leaving kids in creches, going on 'parties' sending elders to Homes, losing all real goals in their worship of Mammon, Epicure and many more raakshashaas!

[thimuru]

a persons charecter in sex or anything is decided not based upon parents or cinema....by a factor - friends

[thinkfloyd]

* SEX is not a taboo

* IT is not something to be looked down upon.

* ppl do so many mistakes, have so many wrong attitudes, behaviours, habits, characters like jealousy, spite, vengence, hatred etc..... DO WE TALK BOUT IT?

* Sex IS NOT WRONG

* When 2 ppl who are not blood related, and who belong to the opposite sex, admire, like and love each other, NEXT natural step in a relationship is sex in some cases.

* Sex outside marriage should be and must be avoided when the person is committed.

but...

* If the concerned 2 partners or the triangle dont have problem (and things are done with the consent of all the parties) ITS THEIR LIFE.... why poke our nose there?

* Movie makers are not PREACHERS !

...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :yes: :yes: :yes: :exactly: :exactly: :exactly:

[thamiz]

WTF!? :lol: Then why do u oppose it? What is it to u, if Rani and Raja have Premarital sex? :huh: If it has no such effect on Society as a whole, (U agreed that it hasn't created chaos in contrasting cultures) then why do u oppose that idea? 8-)

I dont see why should I support premarital sex with a married man in the name of "love" ? :roll:

[thamiz]

* If the concerned 2 partners or the triangle dont have problem (and things are done with the consent of all the parties) ITS THEIR LIFE....

Then why cant those three live together for ever :?:

Yeah, admire- love- have sex, bring a child who can never be able to live a normal life and "donate" it and go admire another person and do the same....

* Who are you to bring a illegitimate child and to decide the fate of an innocent one :?:

* In the name of "LOVE"???

As long as you dont bring a child, it may be fine. But when you r spoiling the life of an innocent one in the name of 'love' ??


why poke our nose there?

:roll:

[Designer]

thamizh : one can have sex without intention of begetting a child too, and with proper care, there need be fear of an unwanted child being brought into this world.

As far as 'Sinthu Bhairavi' is concerned, when Sulakshana came to know about the relationship between her husband and Suhasini, she implored Suhasini to stay with them, but it was the former who decided to exit from the scene on her own free will, AFTER leaving her child with them, since Sulakshana couldnt become a mother.

It can happen only in movies (maybe rarely in real life), where the concubine also lives with the man and his first wife. It will not be practical and sensible, since there will arise more complications, in an already complicated situation.

[thamiz]

As far as 'Sinthu Bhairavi' is concerned, when Sulakshana came to know about the relationship between her husband and Suhasini, she implored Suhasini to stay with them, but it was the former who decided to exit from the scene on her own free will, AFTER leaving her child with them, since Sulakshana couldnt become a mother.

May be he will be boring to her when "commitments" and "conditions" are there in a relationship.

Love will slowly evaporate.

She is smart to get away from any commitments.

Now she is ready for admire another person, available for "endless love". Is that right?

[Lambretta]

Sorry had tried replying to this y'day itself but we had a powercut.....then the hub wasnt accessible..:roll:


my two cents:

1. Sex is not dirty. We are from the land of Kama Sutra for heaven's sake! Prudishness was forced among us, but times have changed and views have changed too.
NOV, while I sympathise w/ most of ur viewpoints, I might point out tat the much publicied theory bout India being popular for Kamasutra & tat Indians wer more h*rny than the West then is sumthin left to open speculation......I've come across a lot of different theories on the story behind Kamasutra (wich I dont feel like discussin & encouraging debates on, at present!) & IMO apparently each has their own axe to grind so I wudnt form an opinion on Indians' attitudes towards sex based on tat alone! :)


2. While sex is not dirty, it has a place and time too. Sex is not just an activitity between two consenting people. Indulgence in sex is not only physical but largely mental too. Conscience, morality, stigma, fear, etc set it. Of course there are other factors too like unwanted pregnancy, diseases, etc.
Not to mention the psychological/emotional factors as well, in addn. to the physical ones.


3. Therefore what is required is EDUCATION. Teach your children, your younger siblings. With sex comes responsibility. Share with them the virtues of abstaining sex till they get married. Tell them why having sex before marriage complicates matters. Make them understand that they HAVE control over their actions.
:exactly: Now THIS sure is a good point! :thumbsup:

[Shakthiprabha.]

* If the concerned 2 partners or the triangle dont have problem (and things are done with the consent of all the parties) ITS THEIR LIFE....

Then why cant those three live together for ever :?:

She opted out of it, her reason being, HE SHOULD NOT BECOME an example for younger gen to indulge in extra marital relationship.


Yeah, admire- love- have sex, bring a child who can never be able to live a normal life and "donate" it and go admire another person and do the same....


Now she is ready for admire another person, available for "endless love".

Thats too hasty, Too sharp, too generalised and too judgemental.


* Who are you to bring a illegitimate child and to decide the fate of an innocent one :?:

* In the name of "LOVE"???

As long as you dont bring a child, it may be fine. But when you r spoiling the life of an innocent one in the name of 'love' ??

After knowing the couple's craving for the child, she probably would be sure CHILD WONT GO unattended.

Whats ur stand on SURROGATE mothers then? and...surrogate mothers DO IT FOR MONEY!

Thats WITHOUT LOVE!!!

[thamiz]

She opted out of it, her reason being, HE SHOULD NOT BECOME an example for younger gen to indulge in extra marital relationship.

Nope, she never learnt from her own life!!

she was singing, "nAn oru sindhu kaavadi sindhu, thanthaiyirunthum thaayum irunthum sonthamethuvumilla"

Now she is making the SAME MISTAKE or even worse than that of what her mom did.

Some people never learn. This is one among them!



too judgemental.

Are not we judgemental when we are saying that someone is judgemental? :roll:


After knowing the couple's craving for the child, she probably would be sure CHILD WONT GO unattended.

What a "sacrifice" for her own pleasure in the name of "love"!!!


Whats ur stand on SURROGATE mothers then? and...surrogate mothers DO IT FOR MONEY!


That is a completely different "issue"!

[Roshan]

Whats ur stand on SURROGATE mothers then? and...surrogate mothers DO IT FOR MONEY!


That is a completely different "issue"!

:wink:

poRi paRakkum discussion on Sinthu Bairavi... appadiyE konjam "Kalki" pathiyum pEsunga :x More irritating than "sindhu" :twisted:

[thamiz]

roshan: I am yet to see kalki! :)

[crazy]

roshan: I am yet to see kalki! :)

paarkkaateenga :) or paarunga, aana paarpathil endha use'um illai :roll:

[Roshan]

roshan: I am yet to see kalki! :)

paarkkaateenga :) or paarunga, aana paarpathil endha use'um illai :roll:

aamA :)... aanA inga konjam soodA discuss paNNuRathukku uthavum :wink:

[thamiz]

roshan: I am yet to see kalki! :)

paarkkaateenga :) or paarunga, aana paarpathil endha use'um illai :roll:

crazy: :lol:

[crazy]

roshan: I am yet to see kalki! :)

paarkkaateenga :) or paarunga, aana paarpathil endha use'um illai :roll:

aamA :)... aanA inga konjam soodA discuss paNNuRathukku uthavum :wink:

akka, andha bayathil thaan paarkka vendaamnu sonnen
i hate that movie :oops: :uve:

[thamiz]

roshan: I am yet to see kalki! :)

paarkkaateenga :) or paarunga, aana paarpathil endha use'um illai :roll:

aamA :)... aanA inga konjam soodA discuss paNNuRathukku uthavum :wink:

roshan: already sUdu athikamaakikkoNdu pOguthu! :)


BTW, thanks to the 'moderator" for making a thread and really reactivating "misc" section with some hot discussions!

[thamiz]

akka, andha bayathil thaan paarkka vendaamnu sonnen
i hate that movie :oops: :uve:

I got your "message"! :)

[pavalamani pragasam]

Thanx, Crazy! :uve: for me too! Another 'feather in KB's cap' of utter crap!!! Simply nauseating, irritating & condemnable!

[Shakthiprabha.]

Kalki as a character is not very appreciable to me.

Sindhu is an emotional fool.

Anyway, I always believe in viewing or reading a STORY as a story only.

I do not believe in bringing hatred, anger, negative emotions or vehemence in my mind, WHILE VIEWING A CHARACTER or a real life person with different attitude, behaviour or moral values than that of mine.

My mental make up, for the better or worse, is much different than most ppl here.

Guess I dont have much to say ... atleast right now.

I shall come back when I have (IF I HAVE) something to say.

until then happy debating :P

[Sanguine Sridhar]

We Indians esply South Indians are very conservative when it comes to family relationship. I can name even my great grand father's name, tomorrow my son or daughter will do the same.I am really proud of that.

Cinema is a fantasy unfortunately for Tamizhans it is an exception..we think reel heroes are the real heroes of our life.So such a strong media should have proper decency.

Oru aal pala ponnungaloda thodarbu vachrukadhu, oru ponnu pala aangaloda thodarbu vachukuradhu, oru aal amma\ponnu rendu perudan thodarbu vachukuradhu, orutharoda talent pudichu poi adharkaga avar innoru pennukku sondha karar endru therindha pinnum thodarbu vaithukolvadhu,Oruvanai thiruthuvadharkaga than karpai kooda porutpaduthu - Idhellam India-la mukkiyama Tamizh naatula ethana veetula paathrukeenga??

Yedho oru moolai-la nadukura oru asingatha periya kaatchiyaaki,makkal manasula virasatha thoondi,adha vithu kaasakuna adhukku peru enna theramaya??

Seri andha maadhri padangal-lam makkal-a thiruthurathuku-ney vachupom..sathyama idhu moolama neenga thirutha mudiyaadhu.MGR,Sivaji solli thirundhathavanga ungga 90% aabasam +10% karuthula oru padatha paathu thirundha porangala? Makkal andha 90% virasatha eduthupaanga.

[Surya]

NOV, SP AKKA, and Thinkfloyd,

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :yes: :yes: :exactly: :clap: 8-)

[Surya]

If 2 ppl wanna do something behind closed doors and they're not violating any law, THEN WHAT RIGHT IN HELL DO OTHER PPL HAVE TO EVEN CRITICIZE IT?! IT'S NOT LIKE THEIR ASKING YOU TO JOIN THE PARTY! :banghead: IT'S THEIR LIFE AND NOT YOURS. AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW, THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT!!

It's strange how ppl don't think that things like Homosexuality which was "Taboo" in Indian Society just a few years ago, don't feel that it's better to admonish it in it's early stages now since it's their own business and their own life, but feel the need to criticize ppl who involve in pre-marital sex! :banghead:

When Ppl say that when a man converts to another religion, it's okay, because it's his own belief and life, and he is free to do as he chooses (to which I agree To), and other have no right to say anything abt that, but suddenly Pre-Marital sex is measured with a different yardstick even though it's still their own belief and life.


TALK ABT DOUBLE STANDARDS! :cry3: Which is what Society is made of, that's why I think they should be given absolutely NO IMPORTANCE what-so-ever. If ppl stopped caring for "SOCIETY"'s hypocritical opinions then eventually, the same double faced society will stop giving it! 8-)

[Surya]

WTF!? :lol: Then why do u oppose it? What is it to u, if Rani and Raja have Premarital sex? :huh: If it has no such effect on Society as a whole, (U agreed that it hasn't created chaos in contrasting cultures) then why do u oppose that idea? 8-)

I dont see why should I support premarital sex with a married man in the name of "love" ? :roll:

:rotfl2: I thought we were talking abt Premarital Sex in general rather than the Sindhu Bhairavi Case. :roll:

I don't think anyone here is supporting Affairs! :lol2:

[Designer]

As far as 'Sinthu Bhairavi' is concerned, when Sulakshana came to know about the relationship between her husband and Suhasini, she implored Suhasini to stay with them, but it was the former who decided to exit from the scene on her own free will, AFTER leaving her child with them, since Sulakshana couldnt become a mother.

May be he will be boring to her when "commitments" and "conditions" are there in a relationship.

Love will slowly evaporate.

She is smart to get away from any commitments.

Now she is ready for admire another person, available for "endless love". Is that right?

thamizh : All of the above are hypothesis and not explicitly depicted in 'Sinthu Bhairavi'. What is shown is that, Suhasini was committed to JKB the singer (Sivakumar), because of which she left him inspite of his wife's entreaties to stay with them. Suhasini was not shown as being involved with any another man at all, except Sivakumar. (she rejects the advances of Prathap Pothen, a rich man).

[thamiz]

If 2 ppl wanna do something behind closed doors and they're not violating any law, THEN WHAT RIGHT IN HELL DO OTHER PPL HAVE TO EVEN CRITICIZE IT?! IT'S NOT LIKE THEIR ASKING YOU TO JOIN THE PARTY! :banghead: IT'S THEIR LIFE AND NOT YOURS. AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW, THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT!!

Who told you that a married man sleeping with girl friend is legal whether it is on the street or behind the walls? :roll:

Is that "law of marriage" or WHAT ? 8-)

[thamiz]

Suhasini was not shown as being involved with any another man at all, except Sivakumar. (she rejects the advances of Prathap Pothen, a rich man).

Not yet! 8-)

I am not sure whether she is going to live as "single" ever after as she had completed only 1/4 th of her life-time! :roll:

[Surya]

If 2 ppl wanna do something behind closed doors and they're not violating any law, THEN WHAT RIGHT IN HELL DO OTHER PPL HAVE TO EVEN CRITICIZE IT?! IT'S NOT LIKE THEIR ASKING YOU TO JOIN THE PARTY! :banghead: IT'S THEIR LIFE AND NOT YOURS. AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW, THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT!!

Who told you that a married man sleeping with girl friend is legal whether it is on the street or behind the walls? :roll:

Is that "law of marriage" or WHAT ? 8-)

Please read my post again if u didn't get it. I said AND THEY'RE NOT VIOLATING ANY LAW. I'm not talking abt affairs. 8-)

And The Sindu Bhairavi Debate is only a portion of what's being discussed here. That deals with Affairs. Not the other portion. 8-)

[podalangai]

If 2 ppl wanna do something behind closed doors and they're not violating any law, THEN WHAT RIGHT IN HELL DO OTHER PPL HAVE TO EVEN CRITICIZE IT?! IT'S NOT LIKE THEIR ASKING YOU TO JOIN THE PARTY! :banghead: IT'S THEIR LIFE AND NOT YOURS. AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW, THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT!!

Surya, there are two different issues here. The first is how we should react to people who are behaving an a way we call immoral. The second is the issue of such conduct being encouraged and glorified by the media. This thread - which is about the way the movie Sindhu Bhairavi depicts an extra-marital affair - is mainly about the latter. You have been talking almost exclusively about the former. Do you see why we are talking at cross-purposes?

As far as the first issue goes, if I know a group of teenagers are sleeping around, I'm not going to try and set the police on them or have their actions outlawed. But I will in all probability try and make sure my children keep aloof from that sort of behaviour, because at the end of the day I don't approve of that sort of behaviour. And I will try and explain to my children, and others youngsters who I care about, why that that course of behaviour is wrong.

As far as the second issue goes.... Surya, one thing which people often tend to forget is that society is not static. Societal change is driven by the dynamic between those in society who are of a conservative bent of mind - who would like to preserve traditions, ways and values - and those who want change - who want to adopt new ways, and abandon what they see as atavastic old ways. Societies need both - those who want change keep societies from ossifying, whilst the conservative sections ensure that societies change in an incremental, evolutionary way rather than in a messy, revolutionary way. If you seek to stop all criticism of actions we regard as wrong, and if the media is free to glorify such conduct without us having any right to put forward our point of view, you are in effect trying to banish the conservative section of society from the public sphere, and restrict the public sphere only to those who want change. A society where that happens is not a healthy society.

[podalangai]

India is already in the Top 5 countries with the most Aids Patients DISPITE PMS being banned by society! Even though the majoritiy of the population doesn't engage in Pre-Marital sex! Ur saying if Society accepted PMS it would get worse? How?

Actually, the reason for this is the point I was trying to make earlier - that Indian society does not value chastity for men in the same way it values chastity for women. AIDS has spread in India because our society turns a blind eye to the horrendous number of men who have pre-marital and extra-marital sex and then go on to infect their poor wives, who have never even thought of looking at another man. The largest agents for spread of HIV in India are female prostitutes, and the male truck drivers and migrant labourers who frequent them. If these men had been as faithful as their wives, we wouldn't have had an infection problem.


On a tangent, be careful when you use statistics. To assess how widespread a disease is, you need to look at the prevalence rate rather than the total numbers. India has one billion people, so even with a relatively low HIV prevalence rate of 0.9%, the number of patients is high. In the US, the overall prevalance rate is 0.4%, but amongst African-Americans it is 1%, slightly higher than India. In Malawi, in contrast, it is almost 50%.

[podalangai]

Do u think that western society is Unraveling? :) Or suffering any of that "harm" which you talked about?

40% of English girls have had sex by the time they turn 15, and 4% of English teenagers become pregnant. 53% of English 15-year olds drink at least once a week. Youth crime rates are simultaneously rising, re-offending rates have soared to 84%, and prisons for juvenile offenders in England have the highest assault rates of all institutions - higher than prisons for hardened criminals. 90% of banknotes in Germany and 100% of banknotes in Ireland have been used to snort cocaine. Germany's population is shrinking by 34% every generation. So yes, it does seem to me that things are not as they should be in many western societies.

Obviously, it isn't possible to prove that any of this is in any way influenced by the decline in sexual morality, but there have been academic views that the decline in stable families (i.e., including both legally-wed and in long-term stable live-in relationships) has played a role. Whether the rise of free sex has anything to do with the decline in stable families is a question I'll leave to you to ponder about. I can't see how we the premise could be tested.

I'll leave you with a footnote from ancient European history. When it was obvious that the Roman empire was in decline, their Senate attributed their society's ills to a decline in public morality, and attempted to remedy this by appointing "censors" whose job would be to promote morality in public life. This attempt failed. The reasons why it failed should be self-evident - to paraphrase Gandhiji, morality must come from within, and institutions can be no substitute for personal morality. But their diagnosis of the problem gives one some pause for thought, don't you think?

[Surya]

Thanks for the post Podalangai. :) It started out as just the discussion of Sindhu Bhairavi and the KB's presentation of it. Then it went way off of the main topic, and had ppl discussing abt a woman's Purity lying in her virginity, which led to Premarital sex etc.


The first is how we should react to people who are behaving an a way we call immoral......But I will in all probability try and make sure my children don't mingle with them, because at the end of the day I don't approve of that sort of behaviour.

That's what I was talking abt. :) That would be the border. Their ur kids, and u have the right to so. I was talking abt Tamil Society's Tendencies to Indirectly Persecute those who don't follow their definition of "Morale Behavior" (Which keeps changing from Decade to Decade anyway) through cheap ways like Gossiping, Judging someone's Character by using this and this only as their Criteria, which u can even see in this thread, treating someone as if they are inferior because they practice this lifestyle etc etc. :) Which is why I said that this portion of society especially Tamil Society (Which I guess happens to be the majority based on my experience) should be completely ignored, and given no importance.

Preach to ur kids, but the second you (not you, just someone) start judging someone, and start taking matters into your own hands, then it's wrong is what I was saying. Judging someone's character based on the number of people that they're with is like judging someone's religious faith based on the number of temples, churches or mosques they go to. Both the results are far from the truth. :) Just like a women's Purity doesn't only have to do with her virginity, a person's character isn't just based on the number of partners that they've had. 8-)

I personally feel that it should be the law and law only which judges ppl and tells them whats moral and what's immoral rather than anything else. :P

[Surya]

Obviously, it isn't possible to prove that any of this is in any way influenced by the decline in sexual morality

Yes! 8-)


but there have been academic views that the decline in stable families (i.e., including both legally-wed and in long-term stable live-in relationships) has played a role.

I agree 100% :) The Decline of Stable Families has infact contributed to several problems. :)


Morality must come from within, and institutions can be no substitute for personal morality. But their diagnosis of the problem gives one some pause for thought, don't you think?

I agree! But I don't think the present trend for Instilling Morality is the answer, nor do I think that Pre-Marital Sex effects a person's Morality.

As a person who has premarital sex can still practice sexual morality once he or she enters the institution of Marriage. :)

The Decline of Morality causes Chaos, and eventually a Society to Crumble Down. Agreed. :) I'm just saying that PMS has nothing to do with a person's morality. Sexual Morality only comes into play when a person is in a committed relationship. Dating or Marriage. As long as they are loyal to their partner, they are still withholding Sexual Morality. :)

[Surya]

Suhasini was not shown as being involved with any another man at all, except Sivakumar. (she rejects the advances of Prathap Pothen, a rich man).

Not yet! 8-)

I am not sure whether she is going to live as "single" ever after as she had completed only 1/4 th of her life-time! :roll:

That's what is so awesome abt Balachandar Movies. 8-) He leaves so much to the person who watches the movie to decide. :2thumbsup: I guess each person who saw the movie has their own interpretation of that. U can decide for ur own as well. 8-)

[akil]

mm.. differing views of varying generations!

1. About the movie, I kind of liked it, when I watched it as a kid and used to empathize with Sindhu. But this thread leads to a range of questions?
As a director, eventhough KB had touched a lots of feministic subjects, I don't think he was mostly honest to the cause. He always has been showing women as 'crying breed', insecure and dependent on their male counterparts. Avargal is an exception, when it comes to climax.
He couldn't have done anything worse than Kalki to womanhood. The whole concept of a girl willingly bearing a child from his lover or his friend's lover for 'the friend' is sickening.
In whole sindhu bhairavi, the real concept I see, as mentioned somewhere here.. she becomes a victim or a volunteer to what she thought was an unforgivable mistake from her mother.
And the girl falling in love with an artist is not far from truth in reality. In the current celebrity culture in TN as well as the rest of the world, we know how girls fall for their hero and write love letters, and may even be ready to marry him, if he offers to (Somebody married his fan, right ?!.. I don't want any kneejerk responses here, as I really am not criticising that here). Here the situation is complicated by the fact that the artist is married, and he also falls for this like minded girl, who really made every attempt to attract him initially (this is a bit cinematic.. and I would expect in natural circumstances, a distance would be maintained if they know of each other's marital status). Then it leads to this whole area of 'extramarital' and 'premarital sex' and lack of self control and discipline (in our cultural standards). I suppose, there it becomes the story from KB's factory with emotional melodrama. And then he goes on to touch alcoholism, to distract the audience and get the sympathy built for these couple, who don't fit the norm.
It's an interesting drama, though.

2. When I hear comments like we need not actively condemn premarital sex, if the couple concerned are having consensual sex, when they are in love, but not necessarily committed for long term relationship or marriage, it raises interesting questions:
- These things would happen, even when there is social stigma attached to this and we are clear on our moral standards. Afterall to err is human (though some may say, it's not error). But if we stop condemning, eventhough we are not actively encouraging, it will be taken as an encouragement by the deprived adolescents and young adults of our society and the rate is just going to rise, given the late marriages favoured by the current competitive society. Is it acceptable?
- I know there is an increasing move towards 'it's ok how their partner had been before wedding, as long as they are faithful afterwards'. Is it acceptable for everyone? If so, will everyone be honest and comfortable in revealing their past to each other before commiting for longterm relationship? If we feel it doesn't matter, what if the other person feels it matters? It's different in the west, as they don't expect this element naturally with the prevailing 'living together' culture or if it matters for some for religious reasons, they would be explicit in expressing and enquiring on these.
- Also, if we think the past doesn't matter, but also that we don't have to necessarily be revealing to each other about the past (and not consider that as cheating, unless specifically asked and lied), why so? Is it because people feel a sense of guilt in acknowledging this? And if so, is it not because of the moral standard set by the culture for good reasons, which we are ready to overlook by these acts?

3. Last but not the least, the effect of guilt free premarital sex, not checked by the existing moral standards in the west is that this has extended in to very young age (even early teens) in the west leading to an array of other problems starting with distraction from education and progress to teenage pregnancy and drug addiction, not in everyone's case ofcourse? Many educated professional who work with us have obviously not gone through these. But such free values in the society definitely has an impact on ever deterioriating youth of the west. Ofcourse, don't take me wrong that I'm putting everything down to premarital sex. But teenage sex, goes in hand with many other problems, in my opinion. (You may think teenage is too early and that's not what we mean by premarital sex, but then would we start defining an age restriction for this premarital sex and relationship, rather than having a general moral standard. Ofcourse 16 years is considered as the age for consent for sex, here and it doesn't stop below that age).
These problems have been very much acknowledged at a political level and increasing rates of teenage pregnancy, STI, child abuse, foster care (+decreasing rates of higher education) have been hot topics of discussions. They realise it's too late to go back in time to victorian era and advocate abstinence and morality. So, they have to sort to sexual education in schools, which is even otherwise good.

And we realise that with the globalisation and our kids exposed to American standards and values of life through media and internet, it may not be absolutely possible to prevent this happening. But if we stick to advocating our moral conventions, we may be able to dampen the rate it's happening and it's effects, especially with lack of infrastructure to cope up with the potential detriments.

And ofcourse, we should be educating our children on sexual health and be prepared.

(PS: Sorry as usual, I'm suffering from verbal diarrhoea)

[pavalamani pragasam]

:clap: Well said, Akil! Stunning analytical clarity! AND responsibility!

"verbal diarrhoea"! A coinage bespeaking your profession! :lol:

[Lambretta]

Societies need both - those who want change keep societies from ossifying, whilst the conservative sections ensure that societies change in an incremental, evolutionary way rather than in a messy, revolutionary way. If you seek to stop all criticism of actions we regard as wrong, and if the media is free to glorify such conduct without us having any right to put forward our point of view, you are in effect trying to banish the conservative section of society from the public sphere, and restrict the public sphere only to those who want change. A society where that happens is not a healthy society.
:exactly: Good point podalanna! :D

And yes, Akil too! :D

[NOV]

I might point out tat the much publicied theory bout India being popular for Kamasutra & tat Indians wer more h*rny than the West then is sumthin left to open speculation......kamasutra is just the tip of the iceberg. our ancestors treated sex as yet another function of the human being.

conquerors brought in their values and changed our forefathers broadmindedness.

[NOV]

Nope, she never learnt from her own life!!
she was singing, "nAn oru sindhu kaavadi sindhu, thanthaiyirunthum thaayum irunthum sonthamethuvumilla" that sindhu bairavi is still beng discussed after a quarter century shows the power it yields. :lol2:

thamizh, its just a movie, not a textbook in schools. it examines human emotions and is NOT a guide to live life.

[NOV]

Anyway, I always believe in viewing or reading a STORY as a story only.

I do not believe in bringing hatred, anger, negative emotions or vehemence in my mind, WHILE VIEWING A CHARACTER or a real life person with different attitude, behaviour or moral values than that of mine. :clap: :thumbsup: :clap: :thumbsup: :clap: :thumbsup:
Excellent!
Contrary to what you think SP, many ppl here are mature enough to open thier minds to new ideas and thoughts. After all Hubbers are educated and have wide exposure compared to the general public.

[pavalamani pragasam]

A movie is not a textbook in schools, not a guideto live life; but a director is an aasaan to venerate? :confused2:

[Lambretta]

I might point out tat the much publicied theory bout India being popular for Kamasutra & tat Indians wer more h*rny than the West then is sumthin left to open speculation......kamasutra is just the tip of the iceberg. our ancestors treated sex as yet another function of the human being.

conquerors brought in their values and changed our forefathers broadmindedness.
NOV, as I said, I've heard/read bout many 'stories' besides this bout this issue.....I'm still not sure if I shud put forth discussions on it here! :)

[NOV]

Who told you that a married man sleeping with girl friend is legal whether it is on the street or behind the walls? :roll: adultery is not illegal. you don't get jailed or fined for it.
it can be grounds for divorce and child custody.

[NOV]

That's what is so awesome abt Balachandar Movies. 8-) He leaves so much to the person who watches the movie to decide. :2thumbsup: I guess each person who saw the movie has their own interpretation of that. U can decide for ur own as well. 8-):exactly:
he is not called iyakkunar sigaram for nothing.

[NOV]

but a director is an aasaan to venerate? :confused2::yes:
as a director. a story teller.
pls dont kill quoting shakesphere... :frightened:
:notthatway:

[NOV]

NOV, as I said, I've heard/read bout many 'stories' besides this bout this issue.....I'm still not sure if I shud put forth discussions on it here! :)Pls don't.

lets just not forget that change is invitable and that change is the only thing that doesnt change. :D

[pavalamani pragasam]

but a director is an aasaan to venerate? :confused2::yes:
as a director. a story teller.
pls dont kill quoting shakesphere... :frightened:
:notthatway:

Shakepeare must be turning in his grave! :lol:

ennamO pOnga! :sigh2:
Oru consummate artist, 'punnagai' maathiri oru padam eduththa thiRamaisaali thideernu puthikettupOy varrrrrrrisaiyaa padam eduthu asingaththukku anaavasiya alangaaramum, viLambaramum seyRatha paakkumpOthu... :oops: :twisted: :angry2: :omg: :notthatway: :devil: :curse: :rant: :hammer: :cry3: :sigh2: :irked: :huh: :argh: :banghead:



emoticons pOthaathu!

[pavalamani pragasam]

Who told you that a married man sleeping with girl friend is legal whether it is on the street or behind the walls? :roll: adultery is not illegal. you don't get jailed or fined for it.
it can be grounds for divorce and child custody.


ippo puthusaa purushan kodumaikku palavithamaana thaNdanaikaLa easy-aa, instant-aa peNdaaNdiyaala vaangikudukka mudiyum-nu enga government rules pOtturukkE! 'adultery' purushan kodumai-la sErumaa, sEraathaa? :roll:

[crazy]

Kalki as a character is not very appreciable to me.

not at all appreciable to me!

[Designer]

Suhasini was not shown as being involved with any another man at all, except Sivakumar. (she rejects the advances of Prathap Pothen, a rich man).

Not yet! 8-)

I am not sure whether she is going to live as "single" ever after as she had completed only 1/4 th of her life-time! :roll:

IMO it's an interpretation based on each individual's perception, expectations, aspirations, etc.

Well if I was asked to make a sequel to the movie, it would have been thus (may be idealistic ending, but everyone's happy) : Suhasini marries Prathap Pothan after realising that she's still young and must have a life of her own (besides he's not as uninteresting as she thought him to be, compared to JKB !); her child brought up by Sulakshana comes back to her (and accepts her as its mother) after he/she is told about Suhasini. And Sulakshana eventually begets a child of her own, after doctors rectify some medical problem after an operation ( NOT in the US but right here in Chennai's acclaimed hospitals), and Sivakumar & Sulakshana's offspring does not become a famous music exponent like his/her father, but attains fame in another sphere of activity, like say the founder of a world famous Software Products company (the added distinction could be that she is the first Indian woman to do so) !

Any takers for this? Or to denounce this ending?!

[pavalamani pragasam]

nadantha kathaiyE sarillaingurOm, nadakka pORa kathai vERaiyaa ithukku?

[Designer]

Pazhaya araicha maavayE marupadiyum neraya araichachu, puthusa ethaiyaavathu araikkalaamEnnu thaan !

[pavalamani pragasam]

araicha maava araippOmaa-gra paattuthaana ellOrukkum romba pudichirukku!!!!

[Selvan]

Nope, she never learnt from her own life!!
she was singing, "nAn oru sindhu kaavadi sindhu, thanthaiyirunthum thaayum irunthum sonthamethuvumilla" that sindhu bairavi is still beng discussed after a quarter century shows the power it yields. :lol2:

thamizh, its just a movie, not a textbook in schools. it examines human emotions and is NOT a guide to live life.

sorry to remind you this. in another thread you were fretting it's a curse that movies like VV etc run well, whereas AnbeSivam, Heyram etc were damp squibs. You were worried about the decline in good cinema. Cinema is an art, entertainment, and business. I don't see why there is a censor board then when directors examines human emotions.
For instance, say you have a habit of reading books. You'd grab a porn book to read/see, because it's just a magazine?

[Selvan]

but a director is an aasaan to venerate? :confused2::yes:
as a director. a story teller.
pls dont kill quoting shakesphere... :frightened:
:notthatway:
sorry to quote you again :razz:

the difference between Shakespeare and KB is that Shakespeare is a Heyram(the movie) and KB is a Vallavan(film again).

Heyram is a brilliant movie with one or two intimate scenes, whereas Vallavan is a b grade movie(all about intimacy) with one or two good scene(being too generous here). Because I can find 18+ scenes in both movie, I should not be critical of the director of Vallavan?

KB is perverted. It is not just one movie where he deals with controversial topics. There're more.

[NOV]

sorry to remind you this. in another thread you were fretting it's a curse that movies like VV etc run well, whereas AnbeSivam, Heyram etc were damp squibs. :shock:
where did I lament VV running well?
:roll:


You were worried about the decline in good cinema. Cinema is an art, entertainment, and business. I don't see why there is a censor board then when directors examines human emotions.becos not all film makers are KB. :P


For instance, say you have a habit of reading books. You'd grab a porn book to read/see, because it's just a magazine? very clever equation. if I contend this, it would mean I accept your equating KB with porn. sorry, no go. :poke:

anyway, since you have such a low opinion of KB, it is mpossible to have a discussion on this. lets agree to disagree. :)

[thamiz]

adultery is not illegal.
I beg to differ. It is ILLEGAL. May be not a criminal offense but it is a civil offense


you don't get jailed or fined for it.

It depends on where you live! :)

[thamiz]

Places where adultery is illegal:

Alabama, Arizona, Conneticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas,
Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska,
Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, N. Carolina, N. Dakota, Oklahoma,
Rhode Island, S. Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, W. Virginia, Wisconsin

California is only a small tiny little piece in the world!

[Braandan]

The film just shows ordinary human beings! Whatever specialist knowledge or talent they have, they cannot get over basic instincts. That is all. The film itself is nicely taken and depicted. No messages.

But in general Indians are hypocritical regarding this subject.

[thamiz]

No messages.

May be for you!


But in general Indians are hypocritical regarding this subject.

Is that so?

You seem to have very limited knowledge about the earth which certaily has SPECTRUM of people with different views

Not just Indians!!

Get educated by reading the following review of "Bridges of Madison County" by Clint Eastwood.


More wonderful Hollywood b.s. morality, 30 May 2003

Author: Matthew Duren from San Francisco, CA


*** This comment may contain spoilers ***


Yes, technically the movie was well filmed and had some lovely cinematography, but it was also obviously written to tug on the heartstrings of those viewers easily given to sentimental mush.

***Spoiler to follow***

My biggest beef is with the story, itself, and the message it gives. Here we have a middle-aged bored housewife who's going through a midlife crisis and longs for some excitement. So what else is new? I'm middle-aged and I'd like some excitement, too, please. Enter our rugged traveling photographer, Clint Eastwood, and, a few screws later, our housefrau has now found the love of her eternal life????? Of course she's horny for him: he's exciting, adventurous, a deep-thinker, poetic - but very selfish and crappy family material. Meanwhile, her devoted husband of umpteen years, who is not abusive in any way and has stood by her through thick and thin takes the back seat because he's...well, boring. As a married man of 10 years with 2 children, I guess this gives me free license to dump my wife and kids if I suddenly wake up one morning and find them tedious in comparison to some hot new chick that really turns me on. It also makes me feel really good to know that, right now, my wife is probably fantasizing about dumping me for some rugged, exciting, outdoorsy type.

This is basically another Jack and Rose Titanic situation, where the audience is deliberately kept from the reality of what would happen if these two shmucks really did get together. Namely, Clint would dump Meryl when he got tired of having sex with her or Meryl would dump Clint when she finally figured out what a twit he was. Well, it's nice to know that they will be stuck with each other for eternity - under a bridge of Madison County.

Well, Brandan, dont label only indians using your own certificates for your own convenience! 8-)

[Shakthiprabha.]

since, Discussion is getting BOILING HOT...

just On the lighter note,

may it be in kalki, or sindhu bhairavi, (any other movie by same wavelength?)

the heroines feel,

THE BEST GIFT THEY can give their loved ones, is , TO BECOME PREGNANT, and PRESENT THE KID :rotfl2:

WHY ARCHIES!
WHY SHOPPERS STOP!
why ecards!

most emotional way to show our affection is

get pregnant, delivery the real gift, WRAP IT UP in a nice cuddly flowerd towel, BLINK UR EYES seductively cum emotionnaly 2 to 3 times and say, "I'VE GOT A GIFT for u" and all sentimental issueless moms n dads would shed their tears, and watch THEIR GIFT TALK, EAT, LAUGH AND GROW :lol: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

after 20 years...

"hey wheres my gift"

"There!!... the gift is wearing a mini skirt and t.shirt playing tennis :lol: "

( ... so much so, I still maintain that these characters IF THEY EXIST, should be and would be (atleast by me) given enough respect as a citizen or human being, because its their individual/personal decision to live life )

[thinkfloyd]

sorry to quote you again :razz:

Why be sorry to quote someone? adhukku thaane 'quote' button???



Heyram is a brilliant movie with one or two intimate scenes, whereas Vallavan is a b grade movie(all about intimacy) with one or two good scene(being too generous here). Because I can find 18+ scenes in both movie, I should not be critical of the director of Vallavan?

1) Intimate scenes are bad? :banghead:
2) So, Hey Ram is good *inspite* of having intimate scenes? So, a good movie should never have intimate scenes? :banghead:
3) Have you watched Rashomon? What do you think was the main theme in the film, w.r.t to the woman? How do you rate it as a film?
4) Have you read Kalidasa's Kumarasambhava?
5) Do you know what the Siva lingam is supposed to stand for?
6) A director is perverted because he handles "controversial" issues? :banghead: So, "Black Friday" eduthavaru pervert-a??

Geez, for all the hypocirsy we Indians show, most of us should be celibates...

[thinkfloyd]

For instance, say you have a habit of reading books. You'd grab a porn book to read/see, because it's just a magazine?
This is not only a naive analogy, it is also simplistic and stupid.

I think you neither have an understading of porn nor KB's movies :)

[crazy]

SP akka :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl2:

[Lambretta]

SP akka :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl2:
-same as above-

:thumbsup: KK 'ka!

[thamiz]

Geez, for all the hypocirsy we Indians show, most of us should be celibates...

Yeah, right, it is all hypocrisy if anybody thinks little different from what we think.

Whenever we finger at others as hypocrites, we think that we become non-hypocrite! :lol: That is a pity! :(

[Surya]

The film just shows ordinary human beings! Whatever specialist knowledge or talent they have, they cannot get over basic instincts. That is all. The film itself is nicely taken and depicted. No messages.

But in general Indians are hypocritical regarding this subject.

:yes: :yes: :thumbsup:

[Surya]

The film just shows ordinary human beings! Whatever specialist knowledge or talent they have, they cannot get over basic instincts. That is all. The film itself is nicely taken and depicted. No messages.

But in general Indians are hypocritical regarding this subject.

:yes: :yes: :yes: :thumbsup:

[Raghu]

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:
summa bandhaakaga pre-marital sex is ok athu ithu solla kudaathu..

if she is gonna marry him. then absolutely fine..

appadi solunga sir, summa ellarum periya Thiyagi mathiri pesuvanga, but they will NEVER be able to DIGEST it

[Raghu]

Yes, Films are for Entertainment not 2 be taken into one's personal life!!!

In simple Terms, according to our Vedic Scriptures

Sex is ONLY for REPRODUCTIONAL purposes, NOT for ones enjoyment! and This is why Pre-martial sex is FORBIDDEN in our society, and yes, IT SHOULD BE!, the resaon being is that, to bring up an offspring you will need BOTH mother and Father.

For one to be brought well into the society, one needs MATHA, PITHA,GURU,DEIVAM, if one of these aspects is MISSING in a CHILD'Slife, the CHILD is EXTREMLEY LIKELEY TO BE SPOILT.

[thinkfloyd]

how will some of u feel if u come to know ur wife/husband has already been slept with someone :twisted: :twisted:
summa bandhaakaga pre-marital sex is ok athu ithu solla kudaathu..

if she is gonna marry him. then absolutely fine..

appadi solunga sir, summa ellarum periya Thiyagi mathiri pesuvanga, but they will NEVER be able to DIGEST it
Raghu,
Unga aarva kolaarula neenga indha post-ku alikkappatta badhilgala padikkala pola irukku :)

[thinkfloyd]

In simple Terms, according to our Vedic Scriptures


1) Ancient Hindu culture abounds with not only sexual escapades but also with what might be called 'perversions'
2) Even if the vedas don't condemn premarital relationships (i don't know if this is a fact as my knowledge on vedas is insufficient), there is no way you can equate India to hinduism in general and Vedas in particular. Are you aware that India is not a Hindutva nation? What about the hundreds of indigenious religious practices which don't fall into any of the major religions?
3) OK, even if the vedas (and other religious scriptures) condemned the practise, why should anyone follow that?
A Brahmin is not supposed to earn (biksha eduthu thaan saapidanum) and cross the seas. How many follow that? Convenient-a adha vitra vendiyadhu...
4) What do your vedas say about child marriages? OK, let me rephrase, what did your Hinduism have to say about child marriages, the treatment of widows, sati, untouchability etc? OK, the convenient escape is "Hinduism did not say those things, it was wrongly interpreted by the people"... So adhukkellaam enna solludhu unga society, culture etc? What does it prove? Society sollum rules, kattuppaadu etc are not always right (and all are wrong either)... Jesus had to fight his society, Galileo had to fight his society. Often, society is the problem, not the solution




and This is why Pre-martial sex is FORBIDDEN in our society, and yes, IT SHOULD BE!, the resaon being is that, to bring up an offspring you will need BOTH mother and Father.

Hello, what are you talking about? Have you heard about contraceptives? Do you mean to say premarital sex always leads to child-birth??
Do you think we are advocating single parent-hood all this while? :banghead:



Sex is ONLY for REPRODUCTIONAL purposes, NOT for ones enjoyment!

This takes the cake!!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

P.S: It is elementary logic that if sex was only for reproduction and not for "enjoyment", a woman would become pregnant everytime she has sex, which clearly is not the case.
Dopamine dopamine nu oru matter irukku..

[Lambretta]

In simple Terms, according to our Vedic Scriptures

Sex is ONLY for REPRODUCTIONAL purposes, NOT for ones enjoyment! and This is why Pre-martial sex is FORBIDDEN in our society, and yes, IT SHOULD BE!, the resaon being is that, to bring up an offspring you will need BOTH mother and Father.
:exactly: Good point, Raghu! :D
Altho IMO the enjoyment purpose, if it doesnt cross legitimate boundaries, iss not harmful either.
Incidentally, I wonder if Surya machi cud confirm this, as he happens to hav extensive knowledge of the Vedas? :)

[Lambretta]

4) What do your vedas say about child marriages? OK, let me rephrase, what did your Hinduism have to say about child marriages, the treatment of widows, sati, untouchability etc? OK, the convenient escape is "Hinduism did not say those things, it was wrongly interpreted by the people"...
Although I was rather hesitant to reply to this, as this would be a digression in the Misc. section, 'cudnt help going ahead..:)
Actually Bala, a more comprehensive & honest look at our history (not the modified, half-baked versions printed in our school textbooks) would tell us that child marriages, Sati etc. did not exist from the early (viz. Vedic) ages but were brought abt at a later stage following the advent of foreign invasions in India, mainly due to the circumstances prevailing then....ppl. wer paranoid abt girls/single women getting abducted/harmed by foreign rulers invading India then....thus came the idea of introducing a system of 'pushing' a girl into wedlock early on/before puberty, w/ the intention that she wud be secure from such dangers if in wedlock & Sati was bcos if a woman wer left alone thru early widowhood, she was perceived to be susceptible as prey to the 'outsiders' & the only escape thus was to end her life w/ her husband. These practices, ill-advised though they were, were forcibly introduced as 'safety measures' for tat time....but eventually ended up becoming a part of the mainstream culture even after the prevailing situations changed.

[Chappani]

thinkfloyd, those were valid counter arguments from your side :thumbsup: and Raghu is clean bowled...

[thamizhvaanan]

Actually Bala, a more comprehensive & honest look at our history (not the modified, half-baked versions printed in our school textbooks) would tell us that child marriages, Sati etc. did not exist from the early (viz. Vedic) agesShyam, the actual modified, half-baked versions are those that supports misconceptions about our so-called "glorious past". I think thinkfloyd's posts are more appropriate than what those half-baked historians wants us to beleive. I wont dwell into this more... digression w.r.to this thread.

[Lambretta]

Shyam, the actual modified, half-baked versions are those that supports misconceptions about our so-called "glorious past".
TV, this wasnt the point I was on abt.....I was referring to the misconceptions bout child marriages, Sati etc. tat we wer made to believe thru our school text bks!
Neways, as u say, enuff digression w.r.t this thread.....

[Raghu]

Incidentally, I wonder if Surya machi cud confirm this, as he happens to hav extensive knowledge of the Vedas? :)

Lamby,

It is in one of the Chapters in Gita as sex is described as one of the forces of Maya!, it makes PERFECT sense 4 me,

vatta :D

[Lambretta]

Lamby,

It is in one of the Chapters in Gita as sex is described as one of the forces of Maya!, it makes PERFECT sense 4 me,

vatta :D
Do u rem. wich one exactly plse.??
I cud look it up but it wud be more quick if u cud lemme know the chapter next time....tks :)

Hmm.....'wonder if this is another digression here... :oops:

[thinkfloyd]

TV, this wasnt the point I was on abt.....I was referring to the misconceptions bout child marriages, Sati etc. tat we wer made to believe thru our school text bks!
Neways, as u say, enuff digression w.r.t this thread.....
Come on, not only is this attitude (like an Ostrich hiding your head in the sand) childish, it is the epitome of self delusion.
Do you mean to say child marriages, sati, untouchability, widow oppression etc existed ONLY in textbooks???? :banghead: Misconcetptions, BS!
OK, child marriage has as usual been justified under some pretext, how are you going to explain pushinjg a woman into the funeral pyre or the treatment meted out to widows???? Or treating a rape victim as though the whole rape was HEr fault??? idhuvum textbook distortions-a???
Textbook distortions are what was done by the saffron brigade...

Posts like these remind me of a spoof Channel V used to air. There's this character who blames everything on the "foreign hand" :lol:

[thinkfloyd]

Lamby,
It is in one of the Chapters in Gita as sex is described as one of the forces of Maya!, it makes PERFECT sense 4 me,
vatta :D
So it's the Gita now, from the veda :roll:
adhe Bhagavt Gita la worldly pleasures like money etc are also described as MAYA! Appo neenga enna panam panradha niruthitteengala????

[NOV]

Please STOP discussions on religion! :evil:

[selvakumar]

Bala - :Cling: > :Ungalukk Oru SODA: :D :) :lol:
BTW, I learnt a lot of interesting things from this thread :yessir:

But SEX - only for REPRODUCTION ?? :roll: (atleast for human beings)

[NOV]

But SEX - only for REPRODUCTION ?? :roll: (atleast for human beings)this is what I meant exactly on forcing of Victorian values on us. :roll:

[Lambretta]

Come on, not only is this attitude (like an Ostrich hiding your head in the sand) childish, it is the epitome of self delusion.
Do you mean to say child marriages, sati, untouchability, widow oppression etc existed ONLY in textbooks????
Where & when did I suggest tat they existed in textbooks??
B4 u go on expressing ur heated aggressiveness in ur views, plse. read my reply to ur post, reg. child marriages, Sati etc.! As I said there, these things certainly existed in reality.......but the real story bout their origin hav not been explicitly mentioned in textbooks......they hav only given distorted views of such things, leading many of us to believe tat these things wer all part & parcel of our culture from the beginning, thus leading us to make -ve delusions bout our history.


OK, child marriage has as usual been justified under some pretext, how are you going to explain pushinjg a woman into the funeral pyre or the treatment meted out to widows????
Again, this is related to Sati, so read my last reply to u....


Or treating a rape victim as though the whole rape was HEr fault??? idhuvum textbook distortions-a???
Sorry Bala, u certainly didnt bring up the subject of rapre victims b4 in ur previous post & so even I didnt say nething at all in reply bout this....while I accept ur indignation in this regard, plse. see tat u dont put words into my mouth w/ ur retorts!


Textbook distortions are what was done by the saffron brigade...
On the contrary, these wer done by our pseudo-secular MoE authorities who found fault w/ certain truths for no valid reason!

[thinkfloyd]

Where & when did I suggest tat they existed in textbooks??
B4 u go on expressing ur heated aggressiveness in ur views, plse. read my reply to ur post, reg. child marriages, Sati etc.! As I said there, these things certainly existed in reality.......but the real story bout their origin hav not been explicitly mentioned in textbooks......they hav only given distorted views of such things, leading many of us to believe tat these things wer all part & parcel of our culture from the beginning, thus leading us to make -ve delusions bout our history.

As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, the origin of sati is immaterial. What is important is it existed in Indian culture, irrespective of when it was "introduced" or by which 'external' agents.
I will ask you a question. Were the generations who have followed sati etc AFTER the invasions still under the threat of invaders? No! But still they continued with the practice. Now what does that say about our 'culture' and 'society'?
You tolerate sati, child marriages etc (never mind their origins) but will rise against premarital relationships??? :notworthy:
Moreover, there will be an external influence at all points of time in history. Do you think India was an isolated 'sandbox', living in its own sphere without outside influence?


Of course i didn't mention rape in my earlier post. So?
My point is that the same attitude which decries premarital sex also looks at the rape victim not with compassion but with something else (i don't mean you but the 'society'). Moreover, you can't expect every word in my post to be in the context of replying to your words.

Sticking on to the topic and leaving saffron textbooks aside, a society which considers premarital relationship (which is NOT a crime) a bigger concern than other greater crimes is a barbaric one.

[Raghu]

But SEX - only for REPRODUCTION ?? :roll: (atleast for human beings)this is what I meant exactly on forcing of Victorian values on us. :roll:

Er , excuse me...

Vedas and Hindu Philosophies were way way before the Victorian times :twisted:

[NOV]

:banghead:

[Raghu]

But SEX - only for REPRODUCTION ?? :roll: (atleast for human beings)

Selva Machi,

That is what is meant for, but no one follows, :lol:

[NOV]

a society which considers premarital relationship (which is NOT a crime) a bigger concern than other greater crimes is a barbaric one.with a stroke of brush you have committed the same mistake western society committed against the third world not long ago. :roll:

[Raghu]

:banghead:

naan thaan thalaiya muttanum, neega illapa :banghead:

[NOV]

raghu, pls comprehend what I am trying to say be4 you complain abt my post. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[thinkfloyd]

with a stroke of brush you have committed the same mistake western society committed against the third world not long ago. :roll:
That statement doesn't imply the West weren't barbaric, Nov.. infact they were worse... imperialistic savages... Barbarism exists everywhere, it isnt exclusive to us or them...

Plus, calling a society which tolerates and condones sati, widow oppression etc as barbaric is way different from plundering lands and using the pretext of "white man's burden", "civilizing barbaric societies"
Hope you see what i meant :)

[Lambretta]

I will ask you a question. Were the generations who have followed sati etc AFTER the invasions still under the threat of invaders? No! But still they continued with the practice. Now what does that say about our 'culture' and 'society'?
Ur right bout this........unfortunately ther r many practices (not jus Sati) tat were introduced due to prevailing situations but subsequently got ingrained into the succeeding gens. who took it as customs of our own & continued imposing the same on their successors...! Its good tat most of these practices hav been realised as unwanted and unauthentic w/ respect to Indian culture & hav come to an end altho not all of them (eg. the 'purdah' custom of covering the head/face still prevalent in the north)....


You tolerate sati, child marriages etc (never mind their origins) but will rise against premarital relationships??? :notworthy:
Again, this statement of urs is giving room to misinterpretations! Who said neone who expressed different views to urs here tolerates the above?? I had merely pointed out, in response to ur post, tat these practices wer not introduced out of gender bias or fundamentalism or tat sort of thing........however, it certainly was wrong, as u point out, for the succeeding gens. to continue them even after the situations had changed.


Moreover, there will be an external influence at all points of time in history.
True. But I'm sure u'll agree tat the kind of external influence tat is brought into a FREE country is entirely different from tat wich is brought abt as a by-product of a FORCED external rule/INVASION.
The former is a result of its citizens' FREE WILL; they pick it up solely on their own discretion, whereas the latter is sumthing tat is IMPOSED/FORCED DOWN upon ppl. against their own discretion.

[pavalamani pragasam]

4) What do your vedas say about child marriages? OK, let me rephrase, what did your Hinduism have to say about child marriages, the treatment of widows, sati, untouchability etc? OK, the convenient escape is "Hinduism did not say those things, it was wrongly interpreted by the people"...
Although I was rather hesitant to reply to this, as this would be a digression in the Misc. section, 'cudnt help going ahead..:)
Actually Bala, a more comprehensive & honest look at our history (not the modified, half-baked versions printed in our school textbooks) would tell us that child marriages, Sati etc. did not exist from the early (viz. Vedic) ages but were brought abt at a later stage following the advent of foreign invasions in India, mainly due to the circumstances prevailing then....ppl. wer paranoid abt girls/single women getting abducted/harmed by foreign rulers invading India then....thus came the idea of introducing a system of 'pushing' a girl into wedlock early on/before puberty, w/ the intention that she wud be secure from such dangers if in wedlock & Sati was bcos if a woman wer left alone thru early widowhood, she was perceived to be susceptible as prey to the 'outsiders' & the only escape thus was to end her life w/ her husband. These practices, ill-advised though they were, were forcibly introduced as 'safety measures' for tat time....but eventually ended up becoming a part of the mainstream culture even after the prevailing situations changed.


Very well said, Lamby! Anything should be diewed in its proper context. We should look at the past in the background which prevailed then. Roman hero's suicide was a normal, even glorious matter like our Rajput women jumping into fire rather than being captured by enemies. But now our government laws consider suicide wrong. This is a natural, gradual evolution of political, social, intellectual sciences. All changes we witness in our present life patterns have valid, understandable reasons. But no reason anywhere to degrade to bestial level. The more a human learns to keep his senses under control, the greater person he is.

Our very early ancestors of the stone age & prehistoric times were, of course, barbarians! Over these many centuries man has evolved into a civilised being! What are the signs of civilisation? Providing protection for the weaker sex. Forefathers had their own suitable methods. Now we are enlightened, empowered to think of other solutions.

That does not mean throwing away all old customs, concepts! The basic, fundamental, human, humane rules prevail! Premarital sex bespeaks of bestial lack of self-control, a sensual escapade divorced of forethought, afterthought & wise propriety/responsibility. So also the weak points reeking out of the movie under discussion.

[joe]

Sex is ONLY for REPRODUCTIONAL purposes, NOT for ones enjoyment!

:omg: :shock: :shock:

[Raghu]

Sex is ONLY for REPRODUCTIONAL purposes, NOT for ones enjoyment!

:omg: :shock: :shock:

hmmm Vidiy vidiya Ramar Kathaiyaam, vidincha apurum oruthan keataanam, Ramar seethaiku enna murai-enu

[Raghu]

raghu, pls comprehend what I am trying to say be4 you complain abt my post. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Ok, sorry :oops:

[thamiz]

Sticking on to the topic and leaving saffron textbooks aside, a society which considers premarital relationship (which is NOT a crime) a bigger concern than other greater crimes is a barbaric one.

* And in the society you are dreaming to have with premarital sex and teenage mothers, what age one can start premarital sex :?:

* Is there any age limit :?:

* Or, it is just as soon as they feel like having it ???- I understand that it is "hypocritical" and "uncivilized to control" humans, right :?:

Let us get into it and see at least whether you have understood what you dream to have! 8-)

[Jabroni]

deleted by jabroni

[Jabroni]

Sex is ONLY for REPRODUCTIONAL purposes, NOT for ones enjoyment!

:omg: :shock: :shock:

can u say why u r shocked? u think he missed 'to survive' in some girls case?

[Jabroni]

sex is very FUN

have pre-marital sex, which is even more FUN

extra-marital sex is thrilling

kurangil irunthu manithan piranthaan. manithanil irunthu naai piranthaan [dog is no more ahRiNai: uyar thiNai]

what's the difference between the DOGS and US?

why the law that states under 18 people can't have sex? if they both agree upon it, why not?

the ones who argue for pre-marital sex. will you marry if I dump my partners after I did my part?

to the real hypocrites "we Indians are hypocrites"
don't generalise.
you are the HYPOCRITES because you preach one thing and practise another thing.
will you let your sisters or daughters sleep around with a lot of guys?

i'm not a hypocrite and good to see some non-hypocrites here.

you blame that our society treats women unfairly and say virginity is important for both sex. i agree katpu is important for both genders. but you're far BETTER as hypocrites than the western people who are closest to animals. why? because at least one gender is clean and pure. half job is done, and need to clean the other gender. look at western people. there both gender is unclean, in general.

any of you hypocrites ever spend a minute to think of cleaning AIDS?

shame on you. we have better things to think about and do, such as preventing GLOBAL warming, AIDS, POVERTY

only jobless PEOPLE who can't seek pleasure in their lives resort to SEX for pleasure and happiness. you can do it with your spouse and that gives you pleasure. are you all sex-greedy to sleep with everyone? visit HOMES and help orphan kids and physically challenged people. making them happy will give you more happiness.

AIDS is PREVALENT due to pre and extra marital sex

stop putting forth lame idoelogies that dont gel with our culture


:hammer:

[kannannn]

Since it has been conclusively proven with references that sex is only for reproduction, I suggest that humankind only use IVF or artificial insemination for reproduction. That way we can all achieve salvation by not succumbing to any 'Maya'.

[Shakthiprabha.]

Since it has been conclusively proven with references that sex is only for reproduction, I suggest that humankind only use IVF or artificial insemination for reproduction. That way we can all achieve salvation by not succumbing to any 'Maya'.


:)

[thamizhvaanan]

:rotfl: :rotfl2: :rotfl: :rotfl2:

I would like to quote Ayn Rand in this context:

"The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live."

[Designer]

Since it has been conclusively proven with references that sex is only for reproduction, I suggest that humankind only use IVF or artificial insemination for reproduction. That way we can all achieve salvation by not succumbing to any 'Maya'.

Kanna, thangaL mayai-in viLakkam arputhamO arputham :lol:

Seriously speaking, everything has a place in Nature's scheme. And same goes for sex, but with temperance and according to certain norms. If the pleasure / joy factor was removed from the act of reproduction, it would eventually become a mechanical task, more like just a job to do. Who knows, people might actualky stop having sex altogether. And then mankind would invent newer vices which don't have any useful purpose for propagation of genes and for begetting progeny. Whereas sex (or the negative effects thereof) is a known factor (bane or boon, depending on how one looks at it), and to tackle these man has sufficient knowledge & experience.

So IMO, lets not do away with the act of copulation for propagation of population, just bcos it causes perspiration instead of inspiration & exhiliration, in some representation of the population !

[Lambretta]

*DIG
SP akka, TV, Ramky.....wow u guys r still awake huh?! :)
good...got company! :D

/DIG