UNIQUE Language TAMIL. How?

[Oldposts]

Topic started by R.Srinivasan. (U.S.A) (srivas34@yahoo.com) (@ ip68-0-198-105.ri.ri.cox.net) on Sun Oct 19 12:12:36 .


Every Language is great and lovable by heart and mind of the people having it as their Mother-Tongue,like the MOTHER for every Human.And no doubt each Language has its own Beauty and Value.

At the same time...

"HOW and in what aspects TAMIL IS GREAT and UNIQUE?... as also the factors behind... in comparison to other Languages," ...

...is the Topic of Interest, under this Title.

I invite the honourable participants to analyse this factor in a healthy and open-mind.

[Oldposts]

Old responses (http://forumhub.com/tlit/15388.254.12.12.36.html)

[Oldposts]

Dear ALL FRIENDS,

I have initiated this Thread with a high intention of exchanging their valuable thoughts and knowledge on the this important Topic well-relevant and seriously conveyable to the Contemporary Tamil-Society.

Whereas some Guys who are Sick-minded, Tamil-Hatred and ADAMANT and OBSTINATE to thrust their baseless Inferences on others....as also insulting and hurting the Honourable Participants

So please do not reply to this MIND-SICKLY CHARACTER, Mr. Terminator ANYMORE.

I have also taken up the matter with the Administarators.

Please IGNORE such UNWORTHY CHARACTERS in future too.

[Oldposts]

Ok, Mr Srinivasan!

[Oldposts]

Hi R.Srinivasan.

I fully agree with you that TAMIL is classical and ancient complete language and S.I languages are indebted to TAMIL. (My mother tough is Telugu).
But in my opinion a language becomes rich and will serve the purpose more if it can accept the words from other languages (EX: English).

[Oldposts]

To : The ADMINISTARATORS,

Thanks a lot for honouring and Complying with my request promptly and thus ....

...TERMINATED....THE ..."TERMINATOR".

..So DELETED THE IRRELEVANT, UNWORTHY Side-Tracking and Impertinent INTERFERENCES by one TAMIL-HATRED GUY..named "Terminator" in this IMPORTANT-THREAD...one amongst such... many here.

...as also BLOCKED his future participation in ANY THREAD UNDER THIS VALUABLE FORUM.

Many Many Thanks. Please KEEP IT UP.

Sincerely,
R.Srinivasan( Initiator of this Thread)

[Oldposts]

[tscii:7a4a4d21db]

Mr.Ramakrishna:

// I fully agree with you that TAMIL is classical and ancient complete language and S.I languages are indebted to TAMIL. // .

Unbiased Indian and International Linguistic Scholars have asserted authentically that all the other South-Indian Languages, (so called Dravidian-Languages) are the Off-shoot Languages sprung up from the Ancient TAMIL, so called SENTHAMIZH ( Classical Form of Tamil)

One of such authentic Research Study is by Dr. Suneethi Kumar Chatterji whose Treatise is "Origin and Development of Dravidian-Languages"

It is also asserted that Tamil was the only Language spoken ALL OVER INDIA..., during the yesterdays. Subsequently it was confined to South-India because of the Intervention of Pali, Prakrit and Sanskrit Languages more encouraged by the Kings of those days.

From that form of Classical Tamil, the contemporary Tamil-Neighbour-Languages have developed, it has been proved.

To prove this factor if we observe the ancient forms of other South-Indian Languages from which the present shapes as Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Tulu have been transformed ....

...so to say ACHA-TELUGU for Telugu....

...HALE-KANNADA..... for Kannada.....

and EZHUTHTHACHAN-MALAYALAM for Malayalam....

...it is quite undoubtedly obvious that all these Tamil-Neighbour-Languages are....

...Nothing but SENTHAMIZ (Ancient form of Classical-Tamil) sans Sanskrit-words.


// But in my opinion a language becomes rich and will serve the purpose more if it can accept the words from other languages (EX: English). //

Yes. You are correct and that is how any Language can exist...rather SURVIVE ...even under all odds of changing Times.

English is considered as one of the most Advanced and the Richest amongst the International Languages. But...What is its Background?... It is neither a Classical Language ...nor the Ancient !

But Today the whole world accepts it as a Great Language because...

... it is the most ADVANCED and FERTILE..

...with Maxium amount of Vocabulary...

..despite several Lacunae in it .

..especially its Non-standard pronunciations. This Lacunae is peculiar and exists ONLY IN ENGLISH.... Internationally.

And the most noteworthy factor in English is that it has been persistently developed and advanced by means of continuous additions of new words imported from other Languages, without any INHIBITIONS or ORTHODOXY ....unlike other International Languages.....such that invariably the whole world accepts.....that for ADVANCED STUDIES....especially for....SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGICAL Subjects.... English is the MOST BEFIT & APT Language... ... even though it is just an OFFSHOOT Language.... a Mosaic-form of Several Languages and Not a Classical Language...

.. Only because of such ADAPTABILITY..

Luckily Tamil still maintains its Classical Status and presently is spoken by about 14 Crores of people all over the world, mainly because of its Simplicity in pronunciations, with lesser number of Alphabets alongside such other reasons already detailed hereabove.

While I reiterate that every Language has its own Unique Values and Beauty, this main Factor of SIMPLICITY and EASIEST usage status coupled with Abundant Classical Vocabulary is Unparallel in case of Tamil as asserted by the Global Scholars, which are the main reasons for its long survival.

And also the Tamil-speaking people have not been rigid like those mentioned above and have imported words from several foreign Languages, apart from Sanskrit.....and using them profusely.

For example:

¾¢¨ºî ¦º¡ø
Adopted into Tamil --- Foreign Language Source --- -- Meaning

ºÃ¢-Sari Persian Yes

ƒýÉø-Jannal Portugese Window

À¾¢ø-Badhil Arab Reply

¸Î¾¡º¢-Kaduthaasi Persian Letter

¾¡Ê-Dhaadi Arab Beard

ÍõÁ¡Î-Chummaadu Portugese Sandwitch-Weight-Support for Head

¾¢ÛÍ-Dhinusu Persian Varieties

ƒ¢øÄ¡-Jillaa Arab District

¾¡º¢ø¾¡÷-Thahsildhaar Arab Head of Taluk

ÀÃÅ¡ö-Paravaa Arab To be cared

¾Â¡÷-Thayaar Arab Ready


//My mother tough(Tongue) is Telugu //

Well. Then you will be happy to read .....in this Context.. the two Books in Telugu named

"Nudi-Naanudi" and Thummedhaa-Oka-Saari"

published by Andhra-Pathrika and Andhra-Prabha respectively.

Under those Titles they were published as Serial-Articles in these weeklies about 50 years back.. It was analytic on the Origins of Vocabulary and their present forms comparatively as well as their Proximities and Similarities in the various Dravidian Languages. The presentation was so vivid, lively and photographic that any common Telugu-knowing person will find it easy and interesting. I read zealously every week and learnt much from them.

I will be happy if anybody can fetch them and send to me for which I will bear the cost with whole-hearted GRATITUDE....because they are worthy to possess as Reference-Books.


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[Oldposts]

//The Name of a person is decided at the childhood stage by the respective Parents in general just on the basis of their Mother-Tongue but on several other factors, mostly based on their Religion. That aspect is totally irrelevant here.//

In my above-mentioned posting.... in reply to Mr. Terminator.... please read as....

....... Parents in general just ...."NOT"...on the basis of their Mother-Tongue ....

[Oldposts]

[tscii:ba4acf6708]
"Manhipravaalham" Tamil-Style:

"Á½¢ôÀ¢ÃÅ¡Çõ" ¾Á¢Æ¢¨½-ż¦Á¡Æ¢î ¦º¡ø ¿¨¼, ÍÁ¡÷ þÃñ¼¡Â¢Ãõ ¬ñθÙìÌ ÓýÒ §¾¡ýȢ¾¡¸ò ¦¾Ã¢¸¢ÈÐ. þôÒ¾¢Â ¾Á¢ú ¿¨¼ ÓüÈ¢Öõ ¬ýÁ£¸ Å¢Çì¸ò §¾¨Å¸Ù측¸ò §¾¡üÚÅ¢ì¸ôÀð¼Ð.

§¾¡üÚÅ¢ì¸ôÀð¼ ¸¡Ã½í¸û :--

(1)¬ýÁ£¸Óõ, ºÁÂÓõ,ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡¸ §Å¾-¦¿È¢Ôõ À¡Ã¾ ¿¡Î ÓØžüÌõ ¦À¡ÐÅ¡¸î º¢Ä ¾Á¢ú «È¢»÷¸û §Áø
Å¢Çì¸í¸Ç¡¸ ÅÆí¸ Óý Åó¾§À¡Ð «Å÷¸ÙìÌ, §Å¾ š츢Âí¸Ç¢ÕóÐõ, ÁüÈ Å¼ ¦Á¡Æ¢î º¡ò¾¢Ãí¸Ç¢Ä¢ÕóÐõ ¾Á¢ú Á¨È ±ýÚõ ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ §Å¾õ ±É×õ ¬úÅ¡÷¸Ç¢ý «ÕǢÂø ±É×õ «¨Æì¸ôÀÎõ ¾¢ùÅ¢Âô À¢ÃÀó¾í¸û §À¡ýÈ ¾Á¢ú ¦¿È¢¸Ç¢Ä¢ÕóÐõ ´§Ã ºÁÂò¾¢ø þÕ §ÅÚ Å¨¸Â¡É §Áü§¸¡û¸û ±ÎòÐì ¸¡ðÊ Å¢Çì¸ §ÅñÊ Åó¾Ð.

(2)¾Å¢Ã, þò¾¨¸Â Å¢Çì¸í¸û Óý§À ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ¦ÅÇ¢ ÅóÐûǨŸ¨Ç ŢâרøǢÖõ, ±Øò¾¢Öõ ÀÊòÐì §¸ðÎ «È¢Â ´§Ã †¢óÐ ºÁÂò¨¾î §º÷ó¾ À¡Ã¾ò¾¢ý Àø§ÅÚ ¦Á¡Æ¢ô À̾¢Â¢ÉÕõ ¬ÅÄ¡ö Óý Åó¾ §À¡Ð, þô ¦À¡Ð Ó¨È þýȢ¨Á¡¾¾¡¸¢ Å¢ð¼Ð. ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡¸ ¨Å½Å ¦¿È¢ ¿¡Î ÓØÐ ÀÃôÀô Àð¼§À¡Ð ´§Ã Üð¼ò¾¢ø ¾Á¢Æ÷ ÁðÎÁ¢ýÈ¢ À¢È þó¾¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ÉÕõ ÌØÁ¢Â¢ÕóÐ ¬÷ÅòмÛõ Àì¾¢Ô¼Ûõ §¸ð¸ò ÐÅí¸¢Â §À¡Ð ¡ÅÕìÌõ Òâ¨Åì¸ò¾ì¸ ¦À¡Ð ¿¨¼ §¾¨Åô Àð¼Ð. «ó¿¨¼ ¾Á¢ú ż¦Á¡Æ¢î ¦º¡ü¸û þÃñ¨¼Ôõ ¸Äó¾ ÅÊÅõ ¬Â¢üÚ. þõÓ¨È À¡Ã¾ ¿¡Î ÓØÐìÌõ ¦À¡Ðšɾ¡¸ô Òò¾¸í¸Ç¡¸×õ ¦ÅÇ¢Åó¾É.

(3) þùÅÊÅ¡ø ż¦Á¡Æ¢¨Âò ¾Á¢Æ÷¸Ùõ ¸üÈ¡¸ §ÅñÊ ¸ð¼¡Âõ þýÈ¢ º¢Ä Á¡ÚÀ¡Î¸Ù¼ý ż ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ü¸¨Ç §¾¡ò¾¢Ãí¸Ç¢Öõ §Å¾ À¡¼í¸Ç¢Öõ ¾Á¢Æ÷¸û ÀÊì¸ Åº¾¢Â¡Â¢üÚ. ¾Á¢Æ¢ø þøÄ¡¾ ż ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¯îºÃ¢ôÒì¸ÙìÌ þ󿨼 ®Î ¸ðÊÂÐ.

Á½¢ôÀ¢ÃÅ¡ÇòÐìÌ ´÷ ¯¾¡Ã½õ :

"¾¢¦ÃªÀ¾¢ Š¿¡¨¾Â¡Â¢ý§É ôÃÀò¾¢ Àñ½¢òÐ."

þ¨ÈÅ¨É Àì¾¢ ¦ºö ÒÈòàö¨Á (¯¼ø Íò¾õ) þýȢ¨Á¡¾¾¡? ±ýÈ ´Õ Àì¾Ã¢ý §¸ûÅ¢ìÌ ¬îº¡Ã¢Â÷ «Ç¢ò¾ Å¢Çì¸õ þ¡ü¸û.

þ¾ý ¸ÕòÐ :

Š¿¡¨¾Â¡ö (ż ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ø) = Å£ðÎ-Å¢Ä측¸ þÕó¾ §À¡Ð

¢ý¦É = «ý§È¡ (¾Á¢ú¡øÄ¢ý Á¡Ú ÅÊÅõ)

ôÃÀò¾¢ = þ¨ÈÅ§É ¸¾¢Â¡ö (ºÃ½õ) «¨¼ì¸Äõ ÀüÚõ ¦¿È¢.

Àñ½¢òÐ = ¦ºö¾¡û (¾Á¢ú¡øÄ¢ý Á¡Ú ÅÊÅõ).

þùÅÊÅ¢ø ´Õ Å¢§¿¡¾õ ¯üÚ §¿¡ì¸ò¾ì¸Ð. §ÅüÚ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢É÷ ¾Á¢ú þÄ츽ôÀÊ ¬ñÀ¡ø- ¦ÀñÀ¡ø,
¿¢¸ú ¸¡Äõ-þÈó¾ ¸¡Äõ, ´Õ¨Á-Àý¨Á §À¡ýÈ §ÅÚÀ¡Î¸¨Ç «È¢ó¾¡ø ¾¡ý ÒâóÐ ¦¸¡ûÇ þÂÖõ ±ýÈ ¸ðÎôÀ¡ÊýÈ¢ ¡ÅÕõ ±Ç¢¾¡¸ô ÒâóÐ ¦¸¡ûÇò¾ì¸ Ũ¸Â¢ø ("Àñ½¢òÐ" ±ýÀÐ §À¡Ä)
Å¢¨É¡ø ÅÊÅõ «¨ÁÂô ¦ÀüÈÐ.

À¡Ã¾ ¿¡ð¼Å÷ ¡ÅÕìÌõ ¦À¡Ð ź¾¢Â¡¸ þ󿨼 ÅÊÅõ §¾¡üÚÅ¢ì¸ô Àð¼¡Öõ, «¾¢¸Á¡¸ þ¨¾ô ÀÂý ÀÎò¾¢ÂÅ÷¸û ÀÄ ¦Á¡Æ¢ô À¢Ã¢Å¢ÉÃ¡É ¨Å½Å÷¸§Ç.

þ§¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¿¨¼¾¡ý À¢ýÒ º¢Ä Á¡üÈí¸Ù¼ý "Á¨Ä¡Çõ" ±ýȧ¾¡÷ ¾É¢ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¡¸ ¯Õ¦ÅÎò¾Ð.


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[Oldposts]

Dear Mr. Dictionary !

.... Yes.... The Gentleman behind a Dictionary !".....

You can know more about Tamil.... under this Thread..... hereabove...

Further on your criticisms as .....

//what can i say.. tamil language is the funniest ive ever heard u know..no kidding...//

Thanks for your open-minded criticism..... May I know in detail as to ...

What made you feel FUNNY about this Language of high Standard and Values....

as approved so by the duly qualified Global Scholars.....

Is it by means of its Pronunciation.... or....

Inadequacy of Vocabulary....... or....

Sounds UNREFINED and Crude.....or...

The Users you found..... appeared Funny .... or ...

Any other Reason.

Please speak out, so that I can pick-up your point and duly reply on the pertinent aspect.

// i've live in a country in Asia of multi-racial society n people there tend to make fun of the tamil language... u know what.. most non-tamil speakers would never ever dream of trying to learn tamil...//

At Hyderabad, the State Capital-city of Andhra-Pradesh.... deemed to be the capital of Telugu speaking Region of India, that Language Telugu is practically INSIGNIFICANT.....whereas...

we can get on well at ease with Hindi alone..... comparatively better than with Telugu.

.... the local Majority people of the Telengana Region.... were the Oppressed mass of people under Nizam rule..... for Centuries together....

.... Thousands of innocent Telugu Male-members' Organs were cut off at their Boyhood stage... without their prior knowledge...... just as Slaves..... for making them serve in the Nizam's palace... in the name of Hizdas.... so to say callously created Eunuchs. ....

Since these local Telugu people were poor.... became the Victims of the Oppressive Rulers... So they do not have proper status and economical standard.... for want of adequate Education and Employment.... for generations together....... these innocent Telugu people are comparatively much BACKWARD than even the other State people domiciled here....... .

So they are forced to lead a Hand-to-mouth status in the Society in their own land of birth...under the obligation of others...including the domiciled alient state and foreign people!

.....serving them even now... as Servants, Rikshaw-pullers, Coolies etc. mostly .... while the Employers are mostly Hindi-walas from North-India.

So You can imagine.... what respect such local Telugus, including their Language...

.. can hold amongst others..!

Similar case applies to the Tamilians at Singapore....

despite their sizeable extent of population of long ancestry of centuries...

even though Tamil is one of the National Languages there...

you cannot manage with Tamil... but only with Mandarin (Chinese-based Language).....

.... because the Chinese are dominant there... even though of far lesser amount of population

.. even though the Government there was never so callous towards Tamilians like the former.....

but were left uncared for under Poverty and lack of adequate Education....

allowing the foreigner Rich people to dominate over the locals as unrecorded Slaves

So You can imagine.... what respect they and their Language can hold amongst others..!

There are several cases like these, where for want of adequate Humanitarian treatment at par with other citizens....Tamilians are in the lowest Ebb of Life-status Globally...

mainly since the Indians.... especially the Tamilians are ....

Non-Retaliatory, Tolerant and Peace-loving Calm-goers.....

....trusting the Reciprocal-Sincerety of their Masters.....

Whereas for centuries together ... Domicilded Tamilians comparatively have been....

EXPLOITED .... and kept SUPPRESSED.... in several parts of the world.....

as concerned to the people who were taken to such foreign places for employment as Labour...

...but treated as Slaves for ever... and ever...

passing the same to their posterity too,....

leading a miserable life like Beggars in their own Lands of Birth.!

So You can imagine.... what respect they and their Language can command amongst others..!

Besides, the Tamil Language of such people of domiciled origin several centuries back will be far different and even crude, when compared to the Language Standard of their Land of Ancestry.

So anybody should not evaluate the worth of a Language spoken by the domiciled Servant-community of a foreign land.

//.... really tamil don't sounds good at all unlike english, french, arabic, japanese etc //

You can find the Tamil Language of Tamilnadu, or even at the advanced Nations like the US, UK, Australia etc.... especially of the educated elite Society far different and well-refined than the foreign-settled Tamil-Servants' Slang-form.

If you have really came in touch with the Educated Tamilians....

I am sure you will radically change your such a WRONG NOTION and Unfounded INFERENCE...

and baselees CRITICISM on a Language which has been acclaimed to be....

the Classical, Ancient, Fertile, Easiest, Simplest Internationally ....

at par with similar Classical Languages like Hebrew, Sanskrit, Latin, Greek ... and so on.

And I do not support the contention that the TAMIL IS THE BEST LANGUAGE.... No. Not all.

No Language is the Best either Internationally or even Nationally..... so to say in Totality.

Every Language has its own Values, Uniqueness (and some even Great) as also in its Beauty

If anybody poorly judges the worth of an Ancient Classical Language Internationally gaining such unbiased high acclamation from even the Foreign Linguistic-Scholars....

I only.... PITY.... HIM.... ON HIS GROSS IGNORANCE !!

[Oldposts]

[tscii:388fe01ab4]
TAMIL WORDS in other Languages

Global Linguistic-Scholars assert that several ancient Tamil words are found in not only in other Indian Languages but also in many world Languages like Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Mangolian, French, english and the like too.

Most of such words corroborate with the ancient Tamil-Literature and some in the present day usage also

In FRENCH:--

The word "TEA" is a French-word pronounced in French as "THAE" unlike the 'TEE" in English.

It is an adopted Tamil word to French... which means in Tamil as "SWEET- þÉ¢Â" and pronounced the same phonetics as of French as THAE "§¾".

In pure Tamil we call TEA .... as §¾ò-¾ñ½£÷- THAE-THANHNHEER.

"§¾ ÁÐÃò ¾Á¢§Æ¡¨º ¯Ä¸¦ÁÄ¡õ ÀÃ×õ Ũ¸ ¦ºö¾ø §ÅñÎõ".... says Bharathi.

In Hindi :--

The word ¸òÐ (Kathu) as found in Aathichoodi by Auvaiyaar .... "¸Ç×õ ¸òÐõ «È" means "CRUELTY" the Hindi word "KATHRA" meaning "Danger" and another word "KATHARNAAK" meaning 'Dangerous"... or "Cruel" have developed.

From this Tamil word ¸òÐ- KATHU another Tamil word ¸ò¾Ã¢ì§¸¡ø- "KATHARIKKOAL" meaning "Scissors" has developed.

In Bengali:--

In Bengali- Literature "Maegnath" by the Author Michale Madhusudan Dutta...

... in Bengali worded line: .... Athah konae... "ORINDHAM" ... morila bishaadhae...

... the Word "ORINDHAM - ´Ã¢ó¾õ" is an unusual and unknown word in Bengali. It is said that it is an adopted word from the Classical Tamil (¦ºó¾Á¢ú) not found in Sanskrit

Even though far from Tamil, Bengali is another Rich Language of India and the closest to Sanskrit, but highly UNIQUE in a different aspect unlike other North Indian Languages


[/tscii:388fe01ab4]

[Oldposts]

Spoken Tamil is very unique because it sounds just like pigs grunting.

[Oldposts]

[tscii:bf0a929945]¾£ó¾Á¢ú: Theen-Thamizh: (SWEET - TAMIL)

"¡õ «È¢ó¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢§Ä ¾Á¢ú ¦Á¡Æ¢ §À¡ø þÉ¢¾¡ÅÐ ±íÌõ ¸¡§½ý ..."

.... said Mahakavi Bharathi...to mean... "Out of several Languages I know there is no Language as SWEET as Tamil... Not only Bharathi, several open-minded, unbiased foreigners too have accepted this fact

Tamil is named so because its phonetics are invariably light... with no harsh sounds like other Indian Languages as well as in Sanskrit ... such as KHA, GHAH, CHHA, THHA... series nor cluster of sounds like PRA, KLA, BDHA... series etc. as already detailed. These types of Sanskrit based phonetics can be pronounced only by raising the sound generated from the abdomen, shaking the whole body, which sort of strain is not necessary while we speak Tamil-phonetics which are generated from the Throat itself and not from below.

A few centuries back, some new letters were added to Tamil letters like ƒ (Ja), … (Sa), ‡ (Ksha), ‚ (Sree), † (Ha) just to cope up with the phonetic-demands for using the Sanskrit names and such other indispensable terminologies deserving to be pronounced differently from the pre-existent Tamil letters. Even at such time of open-minded re-consideration by Tamil-Scholars, the Originality, Character and Beauty of Tamil by way of its Simplicity in pronunciation through avoiding more than one phonetic for ¸ (Ka), º (Cha), ¼ (Ta), ¾ (Tha), À (Pa) etc. has been maintained.

Purposively such unique linguistic character of Tamil has not been deviated and left unaltered because Tamil is a rich languaguage possessing adequate Vocabulary to stand on its own, with the least extent of demand for the import of words from other Languages, only in which case the linked phonetics at the source of the letter itself unlike the basis of English and Tamil where the different phonetics are developed by one and the same letter according to its placement.. Even in such cases such new alien-language words have been transformed true to the character and Basics of Tamil by means of Thadhbhavam mode. The object is not to complicate the phonetics and letters but to simplify the speech and writing.

Further there is an unusual letter Æ (ZHA) in Tamil, which light phonetic does not exist in any language nationally or internatiomally excepting Malayalam. This phonetic adds to Tamil's Sweetness. The word denoting the name of the language Tamil itself as ¾Á¢ú contains this softest phonetic as "ú" compared to any language considered in the aspect of sweetness.

Even the ITALIAN Language which is considered as the Sweetest Europian Language has become Sweet only because of its musical-phonetics caused by its nasal pronunciation.... as the case of Malayalam an Indian Language. But international scholars do not consider Malayalam the sweeter than Tamil, only because of its Sanskritised tough pronunciations similar to other Indian Languages except Tamil.

Global Linguistic Scholars assert that Sanskrit too as one of the Great Languages nationally and internationally but do not classify it under the sweetness but as the Royal-Language of command alongside its vast and ancient Vocabulary of its own far unique than Tamil.

Tamil is distinctly uncomparable with Sanskrit by way of characteristics and hence far different from other Indian Languages too (which are Sanskrit-based)... Thus its contra-distinctory Uniqueness by way of pronunciation is conspicuously noteworthy.

Åñ¼Á¢ú (VANDAMIZH): .... FERTILE - TAMIL

Tamil is named so because of its abundant vocabulary of its own independantly, being the most ancient amongst the Indian Languages as well as one amongst the International-Languages classified under this factor at par with Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Sumerian etc.

Several Tamil classical words of ancient Tamil-Literature are not found in any Indian Language nor even in any of the Global stream of Languages.

Vocabulary is measured by the extent of convenience to differentiate analtycally to the radical extent of Thoughts as for example... we differentiate in English.... between the words PULL and DRAG... Such analytical differentiation is the maximum in Tamil comparatively....

But one strange fact is... only about 40% of the ancient Tamil words we are using in even the present Tamil-Literature, while it is only between 25 % in the Spoken Tamil with the admixture of words from other Languages like Sanskrit, Persian, Portugese, Arab, Greek etc.... which are avoided as far as possible to the bare minimum in the Literal usage. So it may raise a doubt whether Tamil can really stand on its own. Yes, it can... provided such words hidden in the ancient Literature are brought out for common usage.

The amount of rich vocabulary in Tamil can be ascertained by comparison with other languages

For example in English we call WIND from all the directions by the same name as "Wind" only.

Whereas in Tamil for the Wind, it is different according to its Originating-direction.

Wind ... from the East, is called a ... ¦¸¡ñ¼ø... .......... KONDAL

.... do...... from West ................................ ÁÕ¾õ ..................... MARUTHAM

......do...... from North ................................ Å¡¨¼ ..................... VAADAI

......do........from South ............................. ¦¾ýÈø ................... THENRAL

In Sanskrit and some of the other Indian Languages there are different names for Wind from different directions but only for some of the directions and not all.

Similarly in English we say only one word common for all sorts of its function ... GIVE.

Whereas it is different .... by the Sense of Giving .... as...

¾¡ ........... THAA...................... Give...by Request on obligation

¦¸¡Î ....... KODU ................... Give... on Sale or Exchange by Barter.

ÅÆíÌ ..... VAZHANGU ........ Give.... Honourably and respectfully

«Ç¢ ....... ALHI ...................... Give.... Voluntarily .... unsought

® ............... YEE ....................... Give... Offer (Alms to Beggar) ... sought

þÎ ......... IDU ....................... Give... Offer as a duty

«Õû .... ARULH .................. Give.... Gracefully by God or any Superior.

To differentiate some of the Animals, Birds or such other Creatures on the basis of Gender, in English, it can be termed as Horse-Mare, Dog-Bitch, Lion-Lioness, Tiger-Tigress etc.

Whereas in Tamil, even for the other ordinary Creatures there are differentiating Gender-based terminologies like.... ¸Ç¢Ú - À¢Ê for Male-Female Elephant ....¿ñÎ - «ÄÅý for Male-Female Crab, »¢Á¢Ú - §¾É£ for Male-Female Honey-Bee ... it is needless to elaborate further. .

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[Oldposts]

[tscii:ba3e4cf75b]
Corrigendum:

1. //..... only about 40% of the ancient Tamil words we are using in even the present Tamil-Literature, while it is only between ..... xxx 25 % xxxx.... in the Spoken Tamil with the admixture of words from other Languages like Sanskrit, Persian, Portugese, Arab, Greek ...xxx... etc....//

To be read as....

..... only about 40% of the ancient Tamil words we are using in even the present Tamil-Literature, while it is only between 25 % to 30% in the Spoken Tamil with the admixture of words from other Languages like Sanskrit, Persian, Portugese, Arab, Greek, English etc....


2. //...Simplicity in pronunciation through avoiding more than one phonetic....xxx... for ¸ (Ka), º (Cha), ¼ (Ta), ¾ (Tha), À (Pa) etc. has been maintained...... xxx .... //

To be read as....

Simplicity in pronunciation through avoiding more than one phonetic... at the Source of the letter itself (as already existed) .... for ¸ (Ka), º (Cha), ¼ (Ta), ¾ (Tha), À (Pa) etc. has been maintained, being the Unique Character of Tamil similar to English but unlike all other Indian Languages.[/tscii:ba3e4cf75b]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:6b7c590fca]I don't see how it is said kannada and telugu came from tamil.The presence of old tamil words in kannada is give as the proof.But for all you might know these words could be kannada words which tamil had borrowed ? How do you say if there are two identical words in kannada and tamil tamil was the giver and kannada was the receiver ?

So the word Pale as in Pale Kannada or Hale kannada is taken as a tamil word found in kannada and hence our srinivasans says tamil is the mother of kannada.

But Pale could actually be a kannada word , which was borrowed by tamil.

Kannada could have been the mother of of tamil , and kannada speakers must have borrowed more sanskrit words than tamils so kannada has more sanskrit words than tamil.

Think clearly.[/tscii:6b7c590fca]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:3f54671d09]//....Whereas in Tamil, even for the other ordinary Creatures there are differentiating Gender-based terminologies like.... ....¿ñÎ - «ÄÅý for Male-Female Crab, ......//

There is another school of opinion amongst the Tamil-Scholars that .....

The Crab is named by Three different words ...

¿ûÇ¢ (Nalhlhi) = Masculine Crab to say as ... ¿ûÇ¢ Åó¾¡ý

«ÄÅý (Alavan) = Feminine Crab to say as ... «ÄÅý Åó¾¡û

¿ñÎ (Nandu) = Neuter Gender to say as ... ¿ñÎ Åó¾Ð.

Such an unusual Linguistic facility by Gender-based difference, has been taken advantage of, to analytically describe the love-affair between the lovers amongst the crabs in the Tamil-Literature and another word in Neuter gender for the need of Common usage in Stories and Conversation.

From this example we can find that ....

.... such an emulative analytical facility of abundant vocabulary ....

.... to express radically true to anybody's Imagination and creative thoughts...

.... in a diverse Outlook .... varied Purposes ... and different Contexts...

.... has been unparallelly made available in this ...

.... RICH ... INDEPENDANT.... and.... CLASSICAL LANGUAGE TAMIL.
[/tscii:3f54671d09]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:5e95f4d7a8]http://www.iomx.com/online_ebooks.htm (http://www.iomx.com/online_ebooks.htm
)
http://www.iomx.com/download.htm (http://www.iomx.com/download.htm
)
http://www.iomx.com/webmaster.htm (http://www.iomx.com/webmaster.htm
)
http://www.iomx.com/ (http://www.iomx.com/
)[/tscii:5e95f4d7a8]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:8608e02a3d]English is considered as not only the most Update and Modern but also the most FERTILE-LANGUAGE possessing an abundant extent of Vocabulary amongst all the International languages in the cotemporary Global Society ....

Yes... Indeed... It is true....

But under this aspect ... in several cases ... Tamil is better equipped ... not only more than all the other Indian Languages ... but also amongst the International Languages too .... so to say... even more than English ...

Under this aspect of Vocabulary...

Further to the above-quoted Example of word to mean .."GIVE" ...

Let us see one more Example:-- Tamil Words to mean in English .. "ACCORDINGLY"

For the sentence ... I will do.... "accordingly"... in Tamil, it varies according to the context.

1. "Avvaarhae" :-- ¦¾Ã¢Â¡¾¨¾ò ¦¾Ã¢óЦ¸¡ñ§¼ý.... "«ùÅ¡§È".... ¦ºö¸¢§Èý.

When a student asks the Teacher on how to solve a problem.. or.. a stranger seeks guidance from any Guide .. or...in some such cases ... to learn or get to know more or get clarified.. all due to total or partial IGNORANCE OR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE .... In reply .. the other person clears the doubts as a reply.

In such cases the seeker accepts IGNORANCE and says ... I will do accordingly...

2. "Appadiyae" :-- ±ÉìÌò ¦¾Ã¢Â¡Å¢ð¼¡Öõ Òâ¡Ţð¼¡Öõ ¯í¸û ÅÆ¢ ²ü¸¢§Èý. ¿£í¸û ¦ºö¾¾ý / ±Ø¾¢Â¾ý ¿¸Ä¡¸§Å .... "«ôÀʧÂ".... ¦ºö¸¢§Èý....

The seeker agrees to COPY / IMITATE the same method of another person .. as .. DITTO.

3. "Avvidhamae" :-- þÐŨà §ÅÚ Å¢¾Á¡¸§Å¡ ¾ÅÈ¡¸§Å¡ ¦ºöÐ Åó§¾ý. þô§À¡Ð ¯í¸ÇÐ Á¡üÚ ÅÆ¢¨Âò ¦¾Ã¢óÐ ¦¸¡ñ§¼ý. "«ùÅ¢¾§Á"... ¦ºö¸¢§Èý.

Reply ... in agreement to perform on a CORRECTED METHOD...

4. "Anganamae" :-- ¯í¸û ¬¨½¨Â ²ü¸¢§Èý ... "«í¹É§Á"... ¦ºö¸¢§Èý.

In reply to a COMMAND ... either from a King or Ruler or any Superior or God ...[/tscii:8608e02a3d]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:b01bd21d26]Tamil is the only Indian language to be a hi

this is not strrictly a literary/etymyological analysis. so apologies. BUt
tAmil is national language in more than one country outside India
bengali-india and bangladesh
urdu-pakistan and india
tamil- india, sri lanka and singapore
hindi-india
hence tamil is the omly indian language is croses national borders [/tscii:b01bd21d26]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:339e5c17ed]http://www.valaippoo.blogspot.com/[/tscii:339e5c17ed]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:e5365809e2]¾Á¢ú ¯ûÇ ´Õ Å¡÷ò¨¾ '±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ' ±ýÀÐ! ¿£í¸û ¯í¸û «ôÀ¡ «õÁ¡×ìÌ ±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ À¢û¨Ç? - þ¨¾, ±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ ±ýÀ¨¾, ¬í¸¢Äò¾¢ø ±ýɦÅýÚ ÜÚÅ£÷¸û?
§ÁÖõ, ¿¡ý ¾ü§À¡Ð ź¢òÐ ÅÕõ µÁ¡ý ¿¡Î µ÷ «ÃÒ ¿¡Î. «Ã¡À¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø, º¢Ä Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û.....
¿À÷,(¬û)
Á¡Â¢ (¾ñ½£÷) (¿õÁ¢ø Á¡Ã¢, Á¸Á¡Â¢, ±ýÚ Üڧšõ...ºÀ¡( ²Ø)
Ó¾¢÷( ãò¾/ ¦Àâ ),
º£¾¡ (§¿Ã¡¸) º£¨¾ìÌ §¿Ã¡ÉÅû ±ýÀ¾¡ø¾¡ý «ô¦ÀÂ÷....
þÐ §À¡ø þýÛõ ²Ã¡ÇÁ¡É Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û ¯ûÇÉ..
þùÅ¢Õ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢Öõ ÒĨÁ §ÁÖõ ¯ñ¦¼ýÈ¡ø, þýÉÓõ ÜÈÓÊÔõ. [/tscii:e5365809e2]

[Oldposts]

[tscii:bb4da64497]Mr.Venkateswaran,
===================
¾Á¢ú ¯ûÇ ´Õ Å¡÷ò¨¾ '±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ' ±ýÀÐ! ¿£í¸û ¯í¸û «ôÀ¡ «õÁ¡×ìÌ ±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ À¢û¨Ç? - þ¨¾, ±ò¾¨É¡ÅÐ ±ýÀ¨¾, ¬í¸¢Äò¾¢ø ±ýɦÅýÚ ÜÚÅ£÷¸û?
==================
þ§¾ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø ... ²¨É ¦¾ýÉ¡ðÎ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¡É ¦¾ÖíÌ, ¸ýɼõ, ÐÙ, Á¨ÄÂ¡Ç ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢ø ¦º¡ü¸û ¯ûÇÉ.

¬É¡ø ... ż þó¾¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¡É †¢ó¾¢, ÁáðÊ, ¦Àí¸¡Ä¢... §À¡ýÈÅüÈ¢§Ä§Â ¦º¡ü¸û þø¨Ä ±ýÛõ§À¡Ð... «ýɢ ¿¡ðÎ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¡É ¬í¸¢Äò¾¢ø þøÄ¡¾Ð Å¢ó¨¾ «ýÚ.

±É¢Ûõ ¿£í¸û ±ÎòÐ측ðÎõ ÁüÚ§Á¡÷ ¦º¡ø ¯¾¡Ã½õ ... ¿¡ý §ÁüÜȢ ¸ÕòÐôÀÊ ...

... ¾ü¸¡Ä ¯ÄÌ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸û «¨Éò¾¢Öõ º¢Èó¾ ÅÇÁ¡É ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¡¸ì ¸Õ¾ôÀÎõ ¬í¸¢Äò¾¢§Ä§Â ܼ þøÄ¡¾ ÅǨÁ ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ¯ûÇÐ ±Ûõ Å¡¾ò¾¢üÌ §ÁÖõ µ÷ ¬¾¡Ãõ.

====================
«Ã¡À¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø, º¢Ä Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û .....

¿À÷,(¬û) Á¡Â¢ (¾ñ½£÷) (¿õÁ¢ø Á¡Ã¢, Á¸Á¡Â¢, ±ýÚ Üڧšõ...ºÀ¡( ²Ø) Ó¾¢÷( ãò¾/ ¦Àâ ), º£¾¡ (§¿Ã¡¸) º£¨¾ìÌ §¿Ã¡ÉÅû ±ýÀ¾¡ø¾¡ý «ô¦ÀÂ÷....

þÐ §À¡ø þýÛõ ²Ã¡ÇÁ¡É Å¡÷ò¨¾¸û ¯ûÇÉ..
===================

¾Á¢Æ¢ø ¾¢¨ºî ¦º¡ü¸û... «ÃÒ, ¦À÷„¢Âý, §À¡÷и£Š, Äò¾£ý... §À¡ýÈ «ýɢ ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ü¸Ùõ ¸ÄóÐ ÀÄ áüÈ¡ñθÙìÌ ÓýÀ¢Õó§¾ ¿ÁÐ ÒÆì¸ò¾¢ø ÅóÐûÇÉ ±Ûõ ¯ñ¨Á¨Â þó¾ ÁýÈò¾¢ý Àø§ÅÚ þ¨Æ¸Ç¢ø ¿¡ý ±ÎòÐì ¸¡ðÊ¢Õ츢§Èý.

ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡¸,... ¾¢ÉÓõ ´Õ Å¡÷ò¨¾ ... þÄ츢 §Á¨¼... Å¡Øõ ¾Á¢ú... Tamil-Diction.... §À¡ýÈÅüÈ¢Öõ... §ÁÖõ þ§¾ þ¨Æ¢ø ÓýÉÕõ ... ¸¡½Ä¡õ.

¯¾¡Ã½Á¡¸ ¿¡õ ¾Á¢Æ¢ø º÷Å º¡¾¡Ã½Á¡¸ô ÀÂýÀÎòÐõ... ¾¢¨ºî¦º¡ü¸û...

... ºÃ¢, ¾¢ÛÍ, ¸Î¾¡º¢ .... ±Ûõ ¦º¡ü¸û ¦À÷„¢Âý ãÄ¡ü¸û.

... ƒýÉø, ÍõÁ¡Î ... ±ýÀ¨Å §À¡÷òи£º¢Â ãÄ¡ü¸û.

... ƒ¢øÄ¡, ÀÃÅ¡ö, ¾¡Ê, ÌøÄ¡ö, ¾¡Ö측, ¾¡º¢ø¾¡÷, Å측ÄòÐ, ¾ÃôÒ, ¿¢ƒõ, «ºø, ¿¸ø ... «ÃÒ ãÄ¡ü¸û.

1. ¿À÷

¿£í¸û ÜÚõ ... "¿À÷"... ±Ûõ ¦º¡øÖõ «ÃÒ ãÄ¡ø§Ä....

«¾¡ÅÐ... «ÃÒ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢Ä¢ÕóÐ ¾Á¢ØìÌ þÈìÌÁ¾¢Â¡ÉÐ.

2. Á¡Â¢ (¾ñ½£÷) (¿õÁ¢ø Á¡Ã¢, Á¸Á¡Â¢, ±ýÚ Üڧšõ...

¾Á¢Æ¢ø "Á¡Ã¢" ±ýÈ¡ø Á¨Æ ±ýÈ ¦À¡ÕÙõ Á¨ÈÓ¸Á¡¸ò "¾ñ½£¨ÃÔõ" ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢Îõ ¦º¡ø.

¬É¡ø "Á¡Â¢" ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø ¾Á¢Æ¢ø Á¡Â¡-§¾Å¢Â¡É ¸¡Ç¢¨Âì ÌÈ¢ôÀÐ.

"«ý¨É" ±ýÈ ¦À¡ÕÙõ ¯ñÎ .....

"Á¡Â¢" ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø ÁáðÊ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢Öõ "¾¡ö" ±ýÈ ¸Õò¾¢ø ÅÆí¸ôÀθ¢ÈÐ.

"¬Â¢" ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖìÌõ "«ý¨É" ±ýÈ ¦À¡Õû ¯ñÎ.

Á¸Á¡Â¢ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖìÌ....

Á¸ + Á¡Â¢ = Á¸¡ «ý¨É

Á¸õ + ¬Â¢ = Á¸õ ¿ðºò¾¢Ãò¾Å§Ç; Á¸ ¿ðºò¾¢Ãò¾¢ø À¢Èó¾ «ý¨É§Â

¬É¡ø "Á¡Â¢" ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖìÌ ¾Á¢Æ¢ø "¾ñ½£÷" ±ýÈ ¦À¡ÕÇ¡? ±ôÀÊ?

3. ºÀ¡( ²Ø) .... þì¸ÕòÐ ±ôÀÊ?

4. Ó¾¢÷( ãò¾/ ¦Àâ )....

¬õ .... ¯í¸û ¸ÕòÐ ²ü¸ò¾ì¸§¾.

5. º£¾¡ (§¿Ã¡¸) º£¨¾ìÌ §¿Ã¡ÉÅû ±ýÀ¾¡ø¾¡ý «ô¦ÀÂ÷....

«ÃÒ ... "º£¾¡" ±ýÚ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢¼ôÀΞ¢ø... "¾¡" ±Øò¾¢ý ¯îºÃ¢ô§À §ÅÚ.

Seedhaa = §¿Ã¡É.... Straight. þ§¾ ¸Õò¾¢ø †¢ó¾¢Â¢Öõ ²¨É ż þó¾¢Â ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢Öõ ÅÆí¸ôÀθ¢ÈÐ.

Seethaa = §¾Å¢ º£¾¡.... «î¦º¡ø «ýÚ þó¾ «ÃÒ¡ø.... þÐ.... "SEEDHAA".

«ýÀ§Ã!... ¿ýÈ¢ .... À¡Ã¡ðÎì¸û!!

¿¡Ûõ «ÃÒ ¿¡ðÊø ±ïº¢É£Â÷ À½¢ ¦ºö¾ ¸¡Äò¾¢ø «õ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ÉÕ¼ý ÀƸ¢Â «ÛÀÅÓõ ±ÉìÌì ¨¸¦¸¡Î츢ÈÐ.[/tscii:bb4da64497]
<a name="last"></a>

[Sudhaama]

//I don't see how it is said kannada and telugu came from tamil.The presence of old tamil words in kannada is give as the proof.....How do you say if there are two identical words in kannada and tamil tamil was the giver and kannada was the receiver ?//

Simply because one Language is the Giver or the Source for another Language being the Offshoot or the Taker... no language is considered inferior. For example, English is not a Classical-Language of Total or even partial Originality of its own... but an admixture of several Classical Languages like Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Tamil and so on.

However English is considered a Great one amongst the International Language due to some other reasons and factors unique to it. And the English people are aware of its History and they unhesitantly accept the Truth as established by the Common Scholars....

They accept a Spade as a Spade... Nothing else... because it is the Truth and Reality.

Language is a part of Culture which Mankind has mutually exchanged to their best advantage time to time. So either Kannadigas or Telugus or other Non-Tamilians have nothing to feel denigrated ... but gladly accept the fact... whatever it be.

Now let us see logically the answer for your Question....

(1) The primary point to be observed here is, that out of all the Indian Languages currently spoken,....

....Tamil is only declared as the the Most Ancient CLASSICAL-LANGUAGE as well as the First Language ever spoken by Mankind...

... as authentically accepted and proved ever since several centuries back by the International Linguistic Scholars...

... like Dr. Percivel, DrHarts, Dr.Caldwell, Dr.Maxmuller, Dr. Suneethi- kumar Chatterji and such others.

(2) Another only Indian Language named CLASSICAL is.... SANSKRIT...which has been classified as a DEAD- LANGUAGE in the whole International Arena.

It is clear that Kannada and the other Non-Tamil Dravidian Languages, are almost the ADMIXTURES of Tamil and Sanskrit in different forms or modes.... of these Two Classical Languages., which justifies. the point

(3) The most important factor is.... the Comparative Character of Tamil with other Indian Languages. Unlike all other Indian Languages... Tamil is the only Language, where the PHONETICS IS CREATED BASED ON THE LOCATION OF LETTERS, conrary to other Indian Languages where the Phonetics are created right at the Root- Source of each letter itself like Sanskrit. So to say Tamil Phonetics is SYLLABLE-BASED, similar to English unlike Sanskrit and other Indian Languages in which the Phonetics are LETTER-BASED. A language of such an independant phenomenal character cannot be the Offshoot- Language NOR FROM ANOTHER LANGUAGE of far-different basic character..

(4) Compared to other Indian Languages Tamil is the only Language where we do not have 4 types of sounds varying on each Consonant letter like Ka, Cha, Ta, Tha, Pa. Such another factor of independant character justifies further on the impossibility to be named as the Offshoot Language.

(5)Although Sanskrit words are mixed in all the Indian Languages including Tamil, the conspicuous discerning factor in case of Tamil is...

.... when we add more and more Sanskrit words.... it is called a Highest standard of Literature in case of other Indian Languages...

.... whereas it is the opposite case for Tamil...

... So to say... the more we avoid Sanskrit Words... it is classified as the Rich Tamil of Highest Literature value....!!!

(6)Out of all the Indian Languages Tamil grammar is unique and far different from the other ones since they are mostly based on Sanskrit Grammar. In such a case Tamil cannot be deemed as the Offshoot Language of even the other Classical Language of India so called Sanskrit.... So similar question on Kannada or Telugu as the Giver- Language is totally unacceptable by Reasoning.

(7) If we compare the Root-forms or the Sources of Kannada and other South-Indian Languages.... like Halae-Kannada, Acha-Thelugu, Ezhuthachan-Malayalam with Senthamizh ... we find an astonishing similarity.... denoting that Tamil is the SOURCE for all the dravidian languages.

(8) The History of Tamil dates several centuries earlier to all other Soujth-Indian Languages, the Vice-versa is out of question.

(9) Tamil is an International Language since several thousands of years, which highest status of Age, no other Indian Language including Sanskrit can claim.

(10) We find Tamil-Script Stone-carvings, Metal-plated Documents and Palm-leaf records in the ancient Epigraphies all over India including the Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam speaking regions and not the Vice-versa.... so to say Kannada or Telugu or any other Indian Script Documents cannot be found in the ancient Historical- Epigraphy of Tamilnadu regions.

So it s clear that TAMIL IS THE ONLY CLASSICAL LANGUAGE....

.... Still standing INDEPENDANT ON ITS OWN... with RICH LITERATURE.

[Sudhaama]

TRANSLITERATION ...... of.... TAMIL-Terminologies

ZERO FOOD- ITEM

One Sardarji met his Ex.- Class- mate Tamilian friend at Chennai after several years.

Sardarji wanted to taste the South-Indian food varieties. So his local friend took him to a leading Restaurant and hosted him with delicious Tamilian dishes. Sardarji enjoyed eating the several new items till then unknown to him. And he wanted to know the names of each item he relished much and whenever so asked, his friend used to show him the particular item written in Transliterated-English in the Menu-card.

Next day....Sardarji went alone to another Hotel and asked the server to give him...

... One.... "Zero- Zero- thapam"...

The hotel- Bearer could not follow... then the Sardarji showed the Menu-card.

What he meant was ... nothing but...

... the famous South-Indian Food-item ...... "Ooththappam"...

... which he read as... "zero-zero-thapam"

All people around laughed at him.

HANDICAPPED DOSAI :

During an Inernational conference at New Delhi... some of the foreign delegates wanted to learn Tamil through English. They bought a Guide-book on Tamil and mugged up some Transliterated Tamil-terminologies from the book.

Based on the guidance from the book, they decided to talk in Tamil only with the Tamilians

Next time when they went to a Tamilian Hotel...

... one Gentleman ordered the Bearer in the so called Tamil ....

... "Thoasaay kodhu".

... Bearer could not follow... then his wife said...

... "No. No.... You have wrongly pronounced the Tamil words...

... I will say it correctly... after referring to the book ready on hand .... she said.....

..." Hey... Bearer... Toasaay koththu "....

... The Bearers were blinking!.. while the people around started mocking at the Foreigners.

Then one Bearer asked back in English...

... What Language you are speaking... Madam?

... Oh!... It is... YOUR TAMIL .... I am speaking...

... as per.... YOUR BOOK... I got from.... YOUR COUNTRY.

All the people around... could not answer... and so kept Silent...

... Not knowing what to say!

In fact... What they wanted to... SAY and MEAN ... was...

... Dhoasai Kodu... meaning ..."Give me Dhoasai"

For their such ... BLABBERS ...

... Are the Sardarji couple and the Foreigners... to be blamed?...

... When the people around mocked at them ... !!

... they miserably cut a sorry figure... blinking blank... !!!.

... Was it the Fault of those Foreigners ?...

... who trusted the book furnished to them in the Host-country... !!!

... Whose Fault it was...?... and... IS....??... ????????

... as the State of affairs STILL continue....YET... !!!... !!!....!!!

Should the Pitiable ... GUEST Strangers deserve to be LAUGHED AT....?

... Or ... We.... the Honourable !.... HOSTS.... ???????

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:a811174123]
Ms. Pavithra,

Thanks.. My Clarifications are ....

// ..... I did understand the grammar rules of Tamil //.

You mean... Did... or "Did Not"... ?

//I could infer from your explanation that "GANGA" can be pronounced as "GANGA", only out of experience and not based on any grammar rules.... I have seen that some of us pronounce the word " PADMA" as "BADMA”. I know that pronouncing "PADMA" as "BADMA" is wrong, in Tamil it has to be pronounced, as "PADMA" then why is this happening, is it a matter of practice?//

No. You have mistaken my earlier statement. Further I clarify here.
These words are Proper Nowns, which are to be pronounced as the Language of origin, stipulates.

For Example ... "Kaveri'... has to be pronounced as Kaavaeri only by others in any Language, as it is so called by the local people concerned)....

... and ... Padma... as Padhmaa ..only concurring with the owner of that Name. and... Not as.... Paedma (similar to pronouncing ..."Pad".... in the word Letter-Pad) ...

Both these Names of Popular Nowns... emanated from the Religious Language Sanskrit... common for all the Hindus. ... like Hebrerw for Christians and Arab for Muslims...

So we should not deviate from its stipulated Original pronunciations in view of Divinity.

//This is because "GANGA" is an adopted word in Tamil (I mean it does not belong to Tamil, I am not sure if I am right in saying that "GANGA" is not a Tamil word,...//

The Question of adopted word does not arise here. Allahabad, Patna, Salem, Vadodra... are also other examples to justify the pronunciations as has been prescribed by the People or owners possessing and mainly concerned with these Proper-Nown words... even though it can be pronounced by other ways too... in the language it is transliterated.

// (2) If yes then can I say that " KANGA" is the equivalent of the Sanskrit word "GANGA" or does Tamil have a different word for it?//

If a person named in Tamil as... "Thaen-Mozhi(§¾ý-¦Á¡Æ¢)"... is addressed as... "Thenmosi"... (¦¾ý-¦Á¡º¢) ... by wrongly pronouncing her Name ... Only the Tamil-knowing persons around... will laugh at him...

While others may argue that as per English grammar it has to be said as "Thenmosi"(¦¾ý¦Á¡º¢) only ... Can it be acceptable?

// (1) I know that Tamil has a very rich vocabulary, and its quite possible that we have equivalent of the Sanskrit words in Tamil. I would like to know if I am right in saying this //

No Language presently EXISTING .... even in the whole of International arena ... is PURE... with its own Classical-vocabulary of Origin. Every Language has adopted words from various Classical Root Languages like Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Sanskrit, Tamil and so on... which is the Reality of Culture, which Truth has to be accepted acknowledged and duly recognised as well. Fanaticism will be suiciodal.

English is Not a Classical Language... but called as a Fertile language... Well-liked preferably over other Languages for International communications especially for Science & Technology... Mainly because it possesses... the Maximum Vocabulary... apt and well-suited to express and convey the intricate Senses and Thoughts inherent within a few Words or Terminologies. In this respect Tamil or any other Indian Languages too are far behind.

But such a Rich vocabulary in English has been made possible only by means of abundant and accomodative acquisitions from several Global languages, including Tamil into English.... which is the main reason for its widest prevalence living deep-rooted.

But the unbiased Linguists say that.... English is an unrefined Language because of Non-standard granmmar.... especially for Pronunciation.

The words ... "But"... and "Put"... have to be pronounced differently... Why? on what basis? There is No answer in that Grammar.... But only a Thumb-rule... Stating... "It has to be SO"... Unquestionably...Unlike any other Language in the World... past and the present. In one or the other places... such Thumb-Rules... do exist for all the Popular Languages of To-day.

Lot of Sanskrit words have got mixed up in Tamil, more in our spoken Language... and Vice-versa too. So to say ... several Tamil words have been adopted by Sanskrit too. For example as I have already mentioned under these pages.... the the Root of Sanskrit word... Neeraha... meaning Water... the Tamil origin word... "NEER" (¿£÷)... from which Root-word.... another Sanskrit word... Neeraja (¿£Ãƒ¡) ... has emanated.

But it cannot be said... that for each and every Non-Tamil-origin-word... we can find a substitute pure Tamil word from the ancient Tamil Literature. but 60% of Tamil words we are not using at all... even though we have equivalent Tamil word available...

// (3) If I am right then no body can say " look Tamil does not have a pronunciation as "GANGA", in fact it should be made clear to people that the Sanskrit "GANGA" is only "KANGA" in Tamil and it is not an adulteration in the pronunciation."//

If in Tamil literature it is pronounced as ... 'Kanga"... truly conforming to its Grammar... nothing wrong in it..... Nobody can comment on it .. It has to be taken as the "Thatha-bhavam" form of transformation. but practically speaking it has be SPOKEN only in its phonetic-style of its Lingistic-origin ... as I have illustrated above.

Regarding the Difficulty and Facility of various phonetics and Syllables or Sounds I have detailed in my previous Reply. I reiterate... this difficulty exists for each and every Language while Transliterating other Language words. There is no exeception... including Sanskrit, Hindi, English etc. ... as much as.... or even more... than Tamil.

But NO Language should be considered as a YARDSTICK to measure the Greatness of another Language. Only because all the other Indian Languages... are the OFF-SHOOT-LANGUAGES of One Root-Classical Language.... Sanskrit...

... Whereas Tamil... is the only one Contrary to them.... since independant...

.. and... Equally Classical like Sanskrit... whose Grammar is far different from Tamil.

But one point we have to think... why Sanskrit ... has become a Dead-Language?

... as also such other ancient Classical Languages like Hebrew, Greek, Latin... are extinct?

... while Tamil is Not?.... but LIVING BRIGHT ....and also thriving Internationally?

Because of 3 Main reasons.... for Tamil....

(1) The pronunciations are simple and LIGHT... with NO Harsh and Tough Phonetics.

(2) The Language is Very easy with a Simple Grammar... when compared to other Indian Languages especially Sanskrit, which is a difficult Language, especially its Grammar... Foreigners too say so.

(3) It practically accomodates being flexible enough to import the alien Language words into its stream.... like English and Hindi (but without their Draw-backs)

(4) It is widely prevalent all over the world since several centuries, unlike any other Cllassical language.

// (4) Secondly why do we use so many Sanskrit words in spoken Tamil if we have the equivalent words in Tamil? How did this mixing happen?//

Yes... For example...

... ¸øĢ¡½õ / Kalliyaanham (Sanskrit) = ¾¢ÕÁ½õ(Thirumanham); ÅШŠ/ Vadhuivai(Tamil)
... Window(English) = ƒýÉø / Jannal (Portugese) = ¸¡Ä¾÷ / Kaaladhar
... Yes (English) = ºÃ¢ / Sari (Persian) = ¬¸ðÎõ / Aahattum
... Variety(English) = ¾¢ÛÍ / Dhinusu(Persian) = Ũ¸(Vahai)
... ºÁ¡îº¡Ãõ / Samaachaaram(Sanskrit) = ¾¸Åø (Thahaval) / ¦ºö¾¢ (Seydhi)

But Why we are mixing...?... It is the Reality of Common-man's convenience!!!

// (6) Can you please suggest me some book on Tamil grammar (I am beginner in this context)//

You can refer to Tamil Sangam, Madurai.... They can help you authentically.
[/tscii:a811174123]

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:af88e8e560]
"¬í츢 «Äì¸Äóò¾ «ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡ðÊ...." (Aanki alakkalanththa Aththaman Paer Paatti)

... One Boy was reciting Tamil Thiruppaavai transliterated in English letters.... as above... meant to be read as...

µí¸¢ ¯Ä¸Çó¾ ¯ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡Ê (Oangi Ulahalhandha Vuththaman Paer paadi)

Then why the boy read it differently? because according to the conventional English pronunciation it leads to be read so. It was not the Faiult of the Boy... but the Transliteration Style radically unsuited to Tamil Language... whose pronunciations are Not Letter-based like all the other Indian Languages, for which only this sort of Transliteration Style may perhaps suit, being Letter-based pronunciations.

For Tamil since the pronunciations are Syllable-based like English, it has to be dealt differently...

So the Tamil-Sangam Experts invented a New-Style named as Tamil-Sangam Style of Transliteration in the year 1932. This unique style well-suited to Tamil Language... also suits any other Language of International arena.

[/tscii:af88e8e560]

[Sudhaama]

BEST-SUITED TRANSLITERATION-STYLE.... for Tamil... in English

...is... the TAMIL-SANGAM-STYLE standardised in the year 1932.

... since it is SYLLABLE-BASED... unlike all other Styles, which are Letter-based... suited for all other Indian-Languages.

Tamil is the ONLY INDIAN-LANGUAGE... which is SYLLABLE-BASED...Similar to English.

All other Transliteration-Styles in vogue now for Tamil... at par with other Indian Languages....

...can ONLY MISLEAD a Stranger... depicting a different pronunciation than the Tamil's true form.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:d649d04dce]
DIFFERENT PRONUNCIATIONS for One and the Same TAMIL-LETTER... Unlike other Indian-Languages.

Every Language-Sentence is formed by Words..

Words are formed by SYLLABLES... which is the Basis for SHORTHAND-NEED for any Language.

For example...in an English Word : CIRCUMSTANCE... Cir +Cum+Stance... are the Three Phonetics... which are called SYLLABLES.

In a Tamil-Word : MAYILAADUTHURHAI... MAYI + LAADU + THURHAI...

...BY way of Pronunciation only... (although by Grammatical-sense, it is a Combination of MAYIL+ AADU + THURHAI)

In English Language, there is NO STANDARD-PRONUNCIATION FOR any single LETTER... but gets its Phonetic-form, only when it is placed within a Syllable... which itself varies from place to place.

.. For example, there is NO STANDARD PRONUNCIATION for the Letter: "G"... which is pronounced as "JI"

But it gets the sound of "Ge".... while it is used as GET..

And gets the Sound of "Ja" ... when used in GEORGE.

Further different with "F" phonetic... in LAUGH..

In all the Indian-Languages.... EXCEPT TAMIL... each and every Letter has a SPECIFIC PRONUNCIATION...

... and so Every Letter has to be pronounced only by that SINGLE Pronunciation or Phonetic... right from the ORIGIN OF THE LETTER ITSELF.... all through.

For example, a Letter "KA" in Telugu, Hindi, Bengali, Marathi.. and such other Indian-Languages.... EXCEPT TAMIL...

...has to be pronounced as "KA" only.... wherever it be placed... and NOT DIFFERENT.... in any case.

Whereas in Tamil.... there is NO STANDARD-PRONUNCIATION for each Letter.... since it varies according to its placement in a syllable forming the relevant Word.

But it sounds different according to its placement in a Syllable forming part of the relevant Word

For example.... in the Tamil-Word : ¸Ä¸í¸û (KALAHANGALH)... the Letter :"KA" is pronounced as ... KA, HA, GA... Three different-pronunciations for the same Letter "KA".. according to its three locations.

In the cases of other Indian Languages... it has to be read as : KALAKANKALH.... same pronunciation as KA only as it is ... for the Letter from Origin.

So for Transliteration of any Indian-Language into English-Letters... we are able to specify one and the same pronunciation for each Letter... as Ka, Ga, Gha... Cha, Chha, Ja, Jha.... and so on, which System .... WILL NOT SUIT THE TAMIL LANGUAGE ....

...since the Pronunciation in Tamil.... is NOT LETTER-BASED.... but LOCATION-BASED.... so to say its Syllable

So according to the Stipulation for other Indian Languages... if we Transliterate one Tamil-Literature line as...

Onki ulakalanda uththaman pEr pAti.... a Stranger to Tamil will read as ...

...¬í츢 «Äì¸Äñ¼ «ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡ðÊ (AANKI ALAKKALANDA ATHTHAMAN PAER PAATTI)...

...which in fact is different as... µí¸¢ ¯Ä¸Çó¾ ¯ò¾Áý §À÷ À¡Ê... which is CORRECTLY PRONOUNCED ONLY BY....Tamil-Sangam-Style as...

OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN PAER PAADI.
[/tscii:d649d04dce]

[arul_satish]

I'm totally disgusted with this topic. I find most of the gentlemen??? under this topic are ignorant, unpolite and lack sense. I leave this topic deeply hurt and at the same time wonder at the racistic comments. If not for the great tamil scholars and the true protectors of Tamil, we would have vanished like the Red Indians.

[bis_mala]

சுதமா தாத்தா!!

பேத்தி பேச்சைக் கேளாமல்
இந்த தேவா நாத்தி பின்னாலே போய்
நல்லா வாங்கிக் கட்டிக் கொண்டீங்க தாத்தா

சேராத இடந்தனிலே சேர வேண்டாம்,
தேராத ஆய்வுகள் கூற வேண்டாம்
வாதாடும் குறவரிட வள்ளிப் பங்கன்
மயிலேறும் பெருமாளை வாழ்த்தாய் நெஞ்சே!!!!

பேசாமல் என்னோடு வந்துவிடுங்கள்.
வள்ளலார் பாடல்களிலே வாழ்வின் உண்மையறிவோம்,
சிவ பிரானின் நன்மையரிவோம்!!

உங்கள் அன்புப் பேத்தி

[bis_mala]

OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN PAER PAADI.

Correct pronunciation: OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN BARE BODY!!

[devapriya]

Freinds,

India is the mother of World Civilisation,and that with latest Archeological findings and Satelite views of Saraswathi river,Vedic Perriod can be dated to earlier than 3000 BCE and Tamil from Tholkappiyam and Sanam Lit. clearly refers Vedas at many places with Reverance and that is really unique.

Devapriya

[manyvan2000]

with latest Archeological findings and Satelite views of Saraswathi river,

Can you give the links, please?


Vedic Perriod can be dated to earlier than 3000 BCE and Tamil from Tholkappiyam and Sanam Lit. clearly refers Vedas at many places with Reverance and that is really unique.

Have you read these texts? can you quote a few of those? Sorry, I dont know much about these and just curious to know the truth.

[devapriya]

Dear Friend,

Please goto search and give Devapriya or Solomon and read all posts you would see several posts quoting Sangam Lit. and Vedas.

I have a fair knowledge of both and do not claim an expert please and look Tamil and Sanskrit as the Two eyes of India.

Vedas refers to Sindu river as florishing and no reference to Ganga, Indus dried compleetly by 1900BCE and drying started by 2200BCE, hence Vedic period could be 5000- 2000BCE

Devapriya.

[manyvan2000]

Dear Friend,

Please goto search and give Devapriya or Solomon and read all posts you would see several posts quoting Sangam Lit. and Vedas.

I have a fair knowledge of both and do not claim an expert please and look Tamil and Sanskrit as the Two eyes of India.

Vedas refers to Sindu river as florishing and no reference to Ganga, Indus dried compleetly by 1900BCE and drying started by 2200BCE, hence Vedic period could be 5000- 2000BCE

Devapriya.
Dear Devapriya/solomon/whatever,
I got the question only after reading all your posts. All of your statements are unsupported. Never have you provided any actual proofs to support your theories. I appreciate that you have a fair knowledge of both tamil and sanskrit. It would be better if you could include any real proofs along with your statements. :)

[nms]

Vairamuthuvin Varighalhil:

"Thamizhukku Zha Azhagu"

[NVK Ashraf]

Vairamuthuvin Varighalhil:
"Thamizhukku Zha Azhagu"

சரியாகச் சொன்னீர்! தமிழுக்கு "ழ" அழகுதான். ஆனால் தமிழர்களால் "ழ" - கரத்தை சரியாக உச்சரிக்க முடிவதில்லையே ஏன்? இது மிகவும் தர்மசங்கடமான ஒரு நிலை. Apart from Tamil Brahmins and Malayalees, there are hardly people who can pronounce this unique letter properly. The blame should squarely go on the government for not enforcing it as a pre-requisite during elementary school eduction. There is no proper training.

தமிழுக்கு "ழ" அழகு என்றால், அரபு மொழிக்கு "ض" (Lwad) அழகு. வேடிக்கை என்னவென்றால், அரபியர்களுக்கு நிகராக கேரளாவில் உள்ளவர்கள் மற்றும்தான் இந்த எழுத்தை சரியாக் உச்சரிக்கின்றனர். This letter "Lwad" is embedded in the "Allah" (اللّه) and it has to be pronouced properly. Interestingly, even non-Muslims in Kerala pronouce Allah correctly. If you watch any Malayalam movie, the word will be pronounced properly by all actors. On the contrary, look at our actors like Vadivelu and Cilambarasam (all good Tamil names), they murder Tamil.

இந்நிலை எப்பொழுது மாறுமோ!

[Sudhaama]

Vairamuthuvin Varighalhil:
"Thamizhukku Zha Azhagu"

சரியாகச் சொன்னீர்! தமிழுக்கு "ழ" அழகுதான். ஆனால் தமிழர்களால் "ழ" - கரத்தை சரியாக உச்சரிக்க முடிவதில்லையே ஏன்? இது மிகவும் தர்மசங்கடமான ஒரு நிலை. Apart from Tamil Brahmins and Malayalees, there are hardly people who can pronounce this unique letter properly. The blame should squarely go on the government for not enforcing it as a pre-requisite during elementary school eduction. There is no proper training.

தமிழுக்கு "ழ" அழகு என்றால், அரபு மொழிக்கு "ض" (Lwad) அழகு. வேடிக்கை என்னவென்றால், அரபியர்களுக்கு நிகராக கேரளாவில் உள்ளவர்கள் மற்றும்தான் இந்த எழுத்தை சரியாக் உச்சரிக்கின்றனர். This letter "Lwad" is embedded in the "Allah" (اللّه) and it has to be pronouced properly. Interestingly, even non-Muslims in Kerala pronouce Allah correctly. If you watch any Malayalam movie, the word will be pronounced properly by all actors. On the contrary, look at our actors like Vadivelu and Cilambarasam (all good Tamil names), they murder Tamil.

இந்நிலை எப்பொழுது மாறுமோ!

The fault lies ...NOT ON THE TAMILIAN INDIVIDUALS. who pronounce ZHA improperly.

The Lacunae is in the Teachers, Schools and Government who allow such SUB-STANDARD students to pass out.

Whenever I go to Kerala and move with the people there... including the poor and downtrodden folks...

I used to wonder... how they pronounce each and every letter of Malayalam, including ZHA, like Tamil...PHA like Urdu... GHA like Sanskrit.

There is NO WONDER... several present-day Tamilian teachers themselves, are unable to pronounce the Tamil letters including ZHA properlly.

Then how can we expect the students to learn and practice Tamil correctly.?

Lacunae is... LACK OF SINCERETY.... from the Schools and the Government.

Another Lacunae is... Tamilian-People are tolerating it.!!. CLASSICAL LANGUAGE.!!.

This is the present deteriorating state of affairs... since the past about 50 years.

[Sadhana]

I must agree with you both on this. The fault lies on the Thamizh Nadu government for not enforcing it as a mandatory subject. I mean it is very ironic that a state named after the language does not bother to teach the language to the kids that live in it. :D

I reside in Canada and we get some of the game shows aired in Thamizh Nadu here as well. I am embarrassed for some of the contenstants when they can't answer most of the Thamizh related questions. It is such a pity that nothing is being done to preserve this precious language.

[devapriya]

Friends,

I FULly agree with the state of Teachers and poor Tamil pronouncements.

Tamil Film SOngs are another worst example.

Devapriya

[s ramaswamy]

Hi all,,

Not only zha but i find most of the people in tn unable to distinguish between la and la (pl convert this into tamil) (ullam and illam), na and na (Kanavan and kanindu for ex). The largest no of such people exist in our private tamil tv channels. I have noted that only the govt channels like podhigai encourages readers with good "ucharippu". The private channels are a joke in this respect.

[Sudhaama]

...
RAMAN, CHEZHIYAN and KRISHNAN in Tamil.!.?

In Tamil alone... we name the persons as Raman... Krishnan... Gopalan... Kalai-vaanan... (parallelly in Malyalam too.!)..

...while the Original Names as per the Epics are Rama, Krishna and so on.

From where... we got this "N"... in Tamil... far differing from most of the other Languages.?

In Tamil .. we say AVAN - AVAR... IVAN-IVAR ...EVAN-EVAR...etc...

.. where the "N" is of lower respect... while the "R" is a Respectable phonetic.

Same logic is applied here... when one introdues himselves...he says " I am RAMAN ...have come to worship the God RAMAR in the Temple"..

Thus he is able to diiferentiate his spirit of HUMBLENESS one one side alongwith REVERENCE to God on the other side.... even though both are of same Name.

So while we call or address that person... we don't say Hae Raman...

.. but as Hae Rama... to mean our respect to the person... named Raman.

Similarly a person named MATHIYAZHAHAN... is called by others as MATHI- AZHAHA ....

...lest it will mean Disrespect... or Denigration... in Tamil-sense.
...

[sundararaj]

OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN PAER PAADI.

Correct pronunciation: OANGI VULAHALHANDHA VUTHTHAMAN BARE BODY!!

OANGI VULAHALHANDA VUTHTHAMAN BEAR BODY

[sundararaj]

MUKA MAARUTAIYAVAN

MUKAM AARUTAIYAVAN

MUKAM AARU(6)UTAIYAVAN

:thumbsup:

[sundararaj]

Vairamuthuvin Varighalhil:
"Thamizhukku Zha Azhagu"

சரியாகச் சொன்னீர்! தமிழுக்கு "ழ" அழகுதான். ஆனால் தமிழர்களால் "ழ" - கரத்தை சரியாக உச்சரிக்க முடிவதில்லையே ஏன்? இது மிகவும் தர்மசங்கடமான ஒரு நிலை. Apart from Tamil Brahmins and Malayalees, there are hardly people who can pronounce this unique letter properly. The blame should squarely go on the government for not enforcing it as a pre-requisite during elementary school eduction. There is no proper training.

தமிழுக்கு "ழ" அழகு என்றால், அரபு மொழிக்கு "ض" (Lwad) அழகு. வேடிக்கை என்னவென்றால், அரபியர்களுக்கு நிகராக கேரளாவில் உள்ளவர்கள் மற்றும்தான் இந்த எழுத்தை சரியாக் உச்சரிக்கின்றனர். This letter "Lwad" is embedded in the "Allah" (اللّه) and it has to be pronouced properly. Interestingly, even non-Muslims in Kerala pronouce Allah correctly. If you watch any Malayalam movie, the word will be pronounced properly by all actors. On the contrary, look at our actors like Vadivelu and Cilambarasam (all good Tamil names), they murder Tamil.

இந்நிலை எப்பொழுது மாறுமோ!

''Tamizhan yentru sollataa - nee
talai kuninthu nillata''
Veru yennathaan sollarathu?

[podaango]

I am wondering why tamil language does not have seperate letters for

Pa, Ba, Ka, Ga, Sa, Cha, Ta, Da.????

[Sudhaama]

I am wondering why tamil language does not have seperate letters for

Pa, Ba, Ka, Ga, Sa, Cha, Ta, Da.????

This is the BASIC QUESTION..all are interested to know...

... since are Reasonable to Question.

...which I have elaborately and analytically answered in my previous postings...especially in the Beginning of this Thread.

AFTER GOING THROUGH.... ALL SUCH DUE ANSWERS ...UNDER THIS THREAD... for your above Question...

..if You still have any Question furthermore to ask...Welcome.

Affectionately,
Sudhaama
.

[sundararaj]

Wealth of information here. Thanks

[Sudhaama]

.
.Why LAUGH at.. TAMIL the Classical Language.?. GREAT.!!!



I am wondering why tamil language does not have seperate letters for

Pa, Ba, Ka, Ga, Sa, Cha, Ta, Da.????

This is the BASIC QUESTION..all are interested to know...

... since are Reasonable to Question.

...which I have elaborately and analytically answered in my previous postings...especially in the Beginning of this Thread.

AFTER GOING THROUGH.... ALL SUCH DUE ANSWERS ...UNDER THIS THREAD... for your above Question...

..if You still have any Question furthermore to ask...Welcome.

Affectionately,
Sudhaama
.

There are several World Languages, where we do not have such SUB-CLASSIFIED Phonetics ..

..like PHA... BHA... CHCHA... JHA...THA...DHA...etc...

Which TOUGH PRONUNCIATIONS.. Tamil Language does not need...

...nor find it necessary for its expressions...

...Except the cases of TRANSLITERATION of another Language Words... into Tamil-Script.

Such difficulty is prevalent in several World Languages... for Transliteration and even Pronunciation.

For example the pronunciation of "Z" does not exist in any Indian Language including Tamil...

..but we still manage in our Languages... by using nearabout Letter-forms of each language.

Other Indians mock at Tamil-Language on this Count of PHA, BHA type facility NON-AVAILABILITY...

...because SANSKRIT IS THE MOTHER of All Indian Languages EXCEPT TAMIL..

..and also they consider Sanskrit is the ONLY DIVINE LANGUAGE.... DEVA-BHASHA.

Whereas they do not know that Tamil also is a DEVA-BASHA... Equally DIVINE.

So the ignorant Indians who do not know the GREATNESS of the CLASSICAL International Language TAMIL...

... Believe SELF-CENTREDLY... that Sanskrit letters and pronunciation ALONE are the Basic Standards...

.. as well as the YARDSTICK for other Indian Languages.!!! FUNNY.!!!

The interesting factor is... there are several Commonman's Phonetics to differentiate Kurhil and Nedil... in any Language...

...which can be neither pronounced nor written in all such Sanskrit-based North Indian Languages...

..rather they cannot differentiate between...

Kent...Kant... Then-Than... Won-Worn...Well-Whale... etc.

...common to International Languages...

So will they not mock at North Indian Languages...?

Even some IMPORTANT Phonetics are not available in some Popular World Languages.

For example...in the Japanese Language...

... there is No pronunciation of R..RA...RI...REE... RU...RO...

...and T, TA, TI, TEE, TO, TOA...

...and also DA...DI...DEE...DU...DOO...etc.

So when the commoner Japanese speak English... they say...

..ITH... is...VELY VELY ...GUDH.!!.. PUTH...ITH...there on LIGHT LOW SEATH...

..to mean... It is Very Very Good. Put it there on Right Row seat.!!

So any Language cannot and should not be treated as YARDSTICK for some other Language.

Each Language has got its Own Uniqueness and Values...

...while some of them are GREAT.!!

..How and Why?... Already Several Non-Tamilian Foreigners have proved and ESTABLISHED SO...

...the Latest is Mr. Harts, a Born American...

...who travelled all along to Tamilnadu, India...

...just to learn Advanced Tamil... and then made deep Research on Linguism... on World Classical Languages.

..since turned TAMIL-SCHOLAR.... who declares ASSERTIVELY with justifications...

...that Tamil is undoubtedly the GREAT...

... Ancient Classical Language INTERNATIONALLY !!!
.

[Sudhaama]

.//.it will be not at all difficult to learn most of the other Indian Languages...

..since they all are SANSKRIT-BASED... with different forms and styles of presentation...

...EXCEPT TAMIL.. the One and the ONLY INDIAN LANGUAGE... NOT SANSKRIT-BASED. //

Got bowled over by the above statement!

I briefly answer here.. to the above valid Question.

Yes... Some of the points what we all studied.... [ "WE" includes Ms. PP Madam also]...

..is different and far from the truth... proved by authentic History and Literature.

Until my School days... I too had some such doubts and questions on the non-corroborations...

.. amongst the various Authentic Global Research findings themselves.

Then, not only by verifying with my Lecturers as well as several Scholars on Linguistics...

..plus references in Connemara Library at Chennai...

...especially from the Research Book by Mr. Suneethi kumar Chatterji... on DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGES of India..

..the UNDISPUTABLE ULTIMATE findings by Research.

...I got fully convinced on the following Authentic conclusions..

(1) All other Dravidian Languages, so called South-Indian Languages...

...e.g. Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Tulu...

...have ORIGINATED FROM TAMIL... the Route-Language..

...the Second Classical Language of India.... parallel to another Classical Language Sanskrit.

He has proved by his elaborate analysis.

(2) All other Indian Languages in the SUBSEQUENT FORM in India...

..[ after their Original forms shaped as ACHA-TELUGU... HALHAE KANNADA... and EZHUTHTHACHCHAN MALAYALAM]...

..are SANSKRIT-BASED in general...so to mean... their Vocabularies contents are more of Sanskrit ...

..in consequence of which... all those Indian Languages cannot exist without the admixture of Sanskrit vocabulary..

...contrary to the only Indian Language NOT SANSKRIT-BASED but independant on its own.... is TAMIL..

..even though much of the present Tamil Vocabulary have been taken up from Sanskrit too.

This truth can be ascertained from the fact...

..that in all other Indian Languages... the more we deliver Sanskrit Vocabulary admixture...

..it is considered RICHER...either by Literature Value.. or for Dais Lectures

Whereas it is totally CONTRARY IN CASE OF TAMIL.

So to say in case of Tamil... the more we avoid Sanskrit-vocabulary admixture...

..it is considered RICHER TAMIL...named SENTHAMIZH..

This strange phenomena can be observed and adjudged from the Literatures of all the Indian Languages.

So Tamil is equally an independant CLASSICAL WORLD LANGUAGE...

..at par with Sanskrit...which is used by all Indians...especially Hindus.

(3) This factor has been further analysed and ascertained by Dr Hart, the American-born Tamil-Scholar...

..Chief Professor and Head of Tamil Dept.. Berkeley University, USA..

Only after his timely intervention and convincing the India Govt...

...Tamil has been made the Second Classical Language of India.
.

[pavalamani pragasam]

Happy to learn that one never gets too old to learn!!!

[Sudhaama]

.
.Tamil FAR DIFFERENT from all other Indian Languages.!!



.//.it will be not at all difficult to learn most of the other Indian Languages...

..since they all are SANSKRIT-BASED... with different forms and styles of presentation...

...EXCEPT TAMIL.. the One and the ONLY INDIAN LANGUAGE... NOT SANSKRIT-BASED. //

Got bowled over by the above statement!

I briefly answer here.. to the above valid Question.

Yes... Some of the points what we all studied.... [ "WE" includes Ms. PP Madam also]...

..is different and far from the truth... proved by authentic History and Literature.

Until my School days... I too had some such doubts and questions on the non-corroborations...

.. amongst the various Authentic Global Research findings themselves.

Then, not only by verifying with my Lecturers as well as several Scholars on Linguistics...

..plus references in Connemara Library at Chennai...

...especially from the Research Book by Mr. Suneethi kumar Chatterji... on DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGES of India..

..the UNDISPUTABLE ULTIMATE findings by Research.

...I got fully convinced on the following Authentic conclusions..

(1) All other Dravidian Languages, so called South-Indian Languages...

...e.g. Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Tulu...

...have ORIGINATED FROM TAMIL... the Route-Language..

...the Second Classical Language of India.... parallel to another Classical Language Sanskrit.

He has proved by his elaborate analysis.

(2) All other Indian Languages in the SUBSEQUENT FORM in India...

..[ after their Original forms shaped as ACHA-TELUGU... HALHAE KANNADA... and EZHUTHTHACHCHAN MALAYALAM]...

..are SANSKRIT-BASED in general...so to mean... their Vocabularies contents are more of Sanskrit ...

..in consequence of which... all those Indian Languages cannot exist without the admixture of Sanskrit vocabulary..

...contrary to the only Indian Language NOT SANSKRIT-BASED but independant on its own.... is TAMIL..

..even though much of the present Tamil Vocabulary have been taken up from Sanskrit too.

This truth can be ascertained from the fact...

..that in all other Indian Languages... the more we deliver Sanskrit Vocabulary admixture...

..it is considered RICHER...either by Literature Value.. or for Dais Lectures

Whereas it is totally CONTRARY IN CASE OF TAMIL.

So to say in case of Tamil... the more we avoid Sanskrit-vocabulary admixture...

..it is considered RICHER TAMIL...named SENTHAMIZH..

This strange phenomena can be observed and adjudged from the Literatures of all the Indian Languages.

So Tamil is equally an independant CLASSICAL WORLD LANGUAGE...

..at par with Sanskrit...which is used by all Indians...especially Hindus.

(3) This factor has been further analysed and ascertained by Dr Hart, the American-born Tamil-Scholar...

..Chief Professor and Head of Tamil Dept.. Berkeley University, USA..

Only after his timely intervention and convincing the India Govt...

...Tamil has been made the Second Classical Language of India.
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Moreover Tamil is the ONE AND THE ONLY INDIAN LANGUAGE...

(1) ...which does not have Accent-phonetic letters... like PHA... BHA.. CHHA... JHA... KHA... GHA.. T-HA...D-HA... TH-HA... DHHA... etc...

..in addition to Ba, Ja, Ga, Da, Dha respectively.

So to say... Tamil has only two sorts of Phonetics for each Consonent.

For example.. CHA, JA... KA, GA., HA.. TA, DA... THA., DHA.. etc. expressions only are available in Tamil.

As we pronounce CHA series in CHANDAI... PACHCHAI... KACHCHI... THACHCHU.

...JA series.. in PANJAM... THANJAI... VANJI... KUNJU.

...KA series in KARAI... PAKKAM... PAAKKU... CHIKKI...

GA series in SANGU... THANGAI... PONGU.... VANGI.

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

TA series in CHATTAI... PATTU... THOTTI... VATTAM...

DA series... CHANDAI... KANDU... THANDI... MANDA...

DHA series... PANDHU.... CHANDHI... PONDHU... MANDHAI.

PA series... APPAA... PAALAM... PITTU... PUDHU...

BA series... AMBU... CHAMBA... THAMBI... KOMBAI... and so on.

(2) While in all other Indian Languages each letter is Phonetic-based... as TA, DA, KA, GA, CHA, JA... etc...

..whereas the one and the same Tamil Consonant letter (Uyir-Mey Ezhuththu) renders two or three phonetic pronunciation...in Tamil..

..according to its location in the word... as already been illustrated in the previous pages.

(3) Tamil is the only Indian Language which adds letters only laterally... i.e. sideways... similar to English..

..while in other Indian Languages... the letters are clubbed up horizontally and vertically too.

(4) Tamil is the only Indian Language where we do not have cluster of Letters nor Phonets like... KLA... THRI... KYA...SWA... etc.

.. nor the letter RU... as used in the Sanskrit word... RISHI.

Thus TAMIL IS UNIQUE... and INDEPENDANT ... of Sanskrit... unlike all other Indian Languages

..and Tamil preserves its own stature and Linguistic Values for several centuries.
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[Sudhaama]

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. எழுனூறு = 700; எண்ணூறு = 800;

..தொண்ணூறு = 900.. தவறு.. 90. ஏன்?

சுமார் ஆயிரம் ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முந்தைய கால கல்வெட்டுகளிலும் செப்பேடுகளிலும் ஒரு விந்தை காணலாம்.

9=தொண்பது; 29=இருபத்து தொண்பது; ஐம்பத்து தொண்பது... என்ற வகையிலே எண்ணிக்கை குறிப்பிட்டுள்ளதை காணலாம். இது ஏன்.?

நாம் தற்காலத்தில் 9= ஒன்பது என்று கூறுவதே தமிழ் இலக்கியப்படி தவறு. "தொண்பது" என்பதே தக்க உச்சரிப்பு. ஏன்.?

9= தொண்பது; 90 = தொண்ணூறு; 900= தொண்ணாயிரம்... என்பதே உகந்த வழக்கு-முறையாகும். எப்படி.?

தொண்பது = குறைபட்ட பத்து.. அதாவது பத்துக்கு முந்தையது.

தொண்ணூறு = குறைபட்ட நூறு... அல்லது எழுபது, எண்பது, தொண்பது, நூறு... என்பதே எண் வரிசை.

அதாவது பத்துக்கள் வரிசையில்... நூறில் குறைபட்டது...

"தொள்" என்பது "சிறு-குறை" என்று பொருள்படும்.

எனவே சிறிது குறைபட்ட நூறு... அதாவது தொண்ணூறு... என்பது கருத்து.

ஹிந்தி மொழியில்...

29= உந்தீஸ்; 30= தீஸ்;

39 = உன்சாலீஸ்; 40 = சாலீஸ்;

49 = உன்ச்சாஸ்; 50 = பச்சாஸ்.. எனப்படுவது போல.

அதாவது தீஸ் எனப்படும் முப்பதுக்கு முந்தையது, குறைபட்ட முப்பது=30... 29= உன்+தீஸ்;

குறைபட்ட 40=சாலீஸ்... 39= உன்+சாலீஸ்.

ஹிந்தியில் "உன்" சேர்ப்பது போல.. தமிழில் "தொண்"

அந்த முறையில் 9=தொண்பது; 19=பத்தொண்பது; இருபத்தொண்பது =29... என்னும் உச்சரிப்புக்களே தக்கனவாம்.

காலத்தால் ஏற்பட்ட "சருக்கல் தமிழ்" தான்...

நாம் தற்காலத்தில் வழக்காக கொண்டுள்ளோம் என்னும் உண்மைக்கு இது ஓர் எடுத்துக்காட்டு.
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>>ஹிந்தியில் "உன்" சேர்ப்பது போல.. தமிழில் "தொண்"

அந்த முறையில் 9=தொண்பது; 19=பத்தொண்பது; இருபத்தொண்பது =29... என்னும் உச்சரிப்புக்களே தக்கனவாம்.
<<

அப்படிப்பார்த்தால், சரியானவை பின் வருமாறு:

9 = தொண்பத்து
19 = தொண்ணிருபது (பத்தொண்பது அல்ல)
29 = தொண் முப்பது
39 = தொண் நாற்பது

:-)

.ஆகா.! அருமையான கேள்வி.!! ..நல்ல பொறி.!

ஓர் உதாரணத்திற்காக ஹிந்தி மொழி மரபை காட்டினேன்...

...ஹிந்தி மொழி எண்களில்... "உன்" பயன்படுவது போல.. என்று.

ஆனால் தமிழில் ஹிந்தி முறையை பின்பற்றுவதாக கருத்து அன்று.!

அவ்வாறானால்... என்ன அடிப்படையில்... "29= இருபத்தொண்பது" எனப்படுகிறது?...

..."தொண்-முப்பது" என்று தானே இருத்தல் வேண்டும்.?

தமிழ் முறையே வேறு...

உதாரணமாக ஹிந்தியில் 29 வரை ஒவ்வொன்றாக கூட்டிக்கொண்டே வந்து கடைசியான ஒன்பதாவதான 29 எண்ணுக்கு மட்டும் குறைபட்ட முப்பது எனப்படுவது போலன்றி...

தமிழில் எல்லா எண்களுக்கு ஒரே முறை பின்பற்றப்படுகிறது 9 உட்பட.

அதாவது ...முந்தைய ஒன்று இரண்டு வரிசை எண்கள்... 1,2.3,..8 வரையும் போலவே 9-க்கும் "தொண்பது" என்று கூட்டி வழங்கப்படுகிறது.

9= தொண்பது... என்பதை மட்டுமே ஆதார-அடிப்படையாக வைத்துக்கொண்டு... அடுத்து வரும் எல்லா எண்களும் முன்னோக்கியே கூட்டு எண்ணிகையாய் தொடர்கின்றன.

21 = இரு பத்து + ஒன்று... 22 = இருபத்து + இரண்டு... 29 = இரு பத்து + தொண்பது

அதுவே எளிய முறை.... பாமரரும் கூட உலகு எங்கிலும் பயன் படுத்தும் முறை... ஒன்றிலிருந்து பத்து வரையும்... அடுத்து 20, 30, 40.... 100 வரை மட்டும் கற்றுக்கொண்ட பின்... அனைவர்க்குமே குழப்பம் இன்றி தெளிவானது.

உதாரணமாக படிப்பறியாதவன்...

...."பட்லர் இங்கிலீஷ்" பேசுகையில்... 29 = Nine over Twenty... 59 = Nine over Fifty... 79 = Nine over Seventy...

...அதே போல தெலுங்கிலே... 29 = இரவை மீத தொம்மிதி... 59 = யாபை மீத தொம்மிதி... 79 = டெப்பை மீத தொம்மிதி

...கன்னடத்தில்... 29 = இப்பத்து மேலே ஒம்பத்து... 59 = ஐவத்து மேலே ஒம்பத்து... 79 = எப்பத்து மேலே ஒம்பத்து..

...ஹிந்தியில்... 29 = பீஸ் பர் நௌ... 59 = பச்சாஸ் பர் நௌ... 79 = சத்தர் பர் நௌ...

..என்ற வகையில் பேசுவது வழக்கம்.

வடநாட்டு மொழிகள் எல்லாம் ஒரு வகையாய்... மேற்கண்ட இந்தி வழியையே பின்பற்றுகின்றன.

தென்னாட்டு மொழிகள் எல்லாம் வேறாய் தமிழ்-முறையிலேயே எண்களின் பெயர்கள் வழங்கப்படுகின்றன.

ஹிந்தி என்ணிக்கை நெறியில் மேலும் ஓர் குழப்பம்.!

ஒவ்வொரு ஒன்பதாவது எண்ணான 29, 39, 49... என்னும் வகைகளுக்கு ஒரு நெறியை பின்பற்றுகையிலே...

...99-க்கு மட்டும் அதே முறையிலே... "உன்-சௌ"... என்று "குறைபட்ட நூறு" என வழங்குவது இல்லை.

அதற்கு முந்தைய எண்களின் முறையிலேயே முன்னோக்கு கூட்டு முறையிலேயே... 91 = எக்யான்பே, 92 = ப்யான்பே... 93 = த்ரையான்பே... 99 = "நின்யான்பே"... என்று வழங்கப்படுகிறது விந்தை அல்லவோ.?

ஆனால் தமிழ் எண்கள் எப்போதும் ஒரே நெறியிலே... முன்-நோக்கி மட்டுமே செல்பவை... .1,2,.3 வரிசையிலே... ஒரே மாதிரியாக. !

..."தொண்பதும்" விதிவிலக்கு அல்ல.!
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[app_engine]

அய்யா, ஒரு நகைச்சுவைக்காக அப்படிச்சொன்னேன்:-)

தமிழில் 'தொள்' என்பது பத்து (தொன்பது / ஒன்பது), நூறு (தொண்ணூறு), ஆயிரம் (தொள்ளாயிரம்) ஆகியவற்றுக்கு மட்டும் தானே வருகிறது? அதன் பின், "தொண் லட்சம்", "தொண் கோடி" எல்லாம் இல்லை அல்லவா?:-)

[Sudhaama]

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. பிஞ்சு வயதிலேயே தமிழரின் மனப்பாட கல்வி-முறை.!


oh! thank you so much Sudhaama 8-)

app, appadi paarthal, 99 - thon + nooru thaane varum? :)

Crazy - :)

இந்த சந்தேகத்திற்கு முன்னமேயே விடை அளித்திருக்கிறேன்.. என்றாலும் மேலும் விளக்குகிறேன்...

முற்காலத்தில் பள்ளிக்கு சிறுவர்களை கல்வி கற்க அனுப்பும் முன்னரேயே... அன்றாட வாழ்க்கை தேவைகளுக்காக பேச்சுத்-தமிழும் ஆரம்ப- கணக்கும், பொது அறிவு பாடங்களும் வாய்-வழி கல்வியாக கற்பிப்பது வழக்கம்....

அவை யாவும் சிறுவர்க்கு மனப்பாடமாய் மனதில் நன்கு பதிந்து விடும்... ஆரம்ப பள்ளியில் சேர்க்கும் ஐந்து வயதிற்கு முன்பே.!!!

அதனால் மாணவர்களுக்கு பிஞ்சு வயதிலேயே நினைவாற்றல், சிறிது சிறிதாக ஊக்கி வளர்க்கப்பட்டது...

இத்தகைய தமிழர் பண்பாட்டு கல்வி முறை... என்னை போல முற்கால கல்வி முறையில் கற்றவர்களையும் தற்கால முறையில் கற்போரையும் ஒப்பிட்டு நோக்கினால் எளிதாக புரியும்.

உதாரணமாக பள்ளியில் கணக்கு பாடம் கற்கையில்... முந்தைய மனப்பாட கணக்கு-அறிவு கைகொடுக்கும்... காலுகுலேட்டர், கம்ப்யூட்டர், பென்சில், பேப்பர் ஏதுமின்றி மனக்கணக்காகவே விரைவில் விடை காண பழக்கி விடுவது தமிழர் வழக்கம்.

ஞாயிறு, திங்கள்... என்ற வரிசையில் கிழமை பெயர்களையும்.... சித்திரை, வைகாசி, ஆனி என்ற வரிசையில் தமிழ் மாத பெயர்களையும்... ப்ரபவ, விபவ, சுக்ல என்ற வரிசையில் தமிழ் ஆண்டு பெயர்களையும்... அஸ்வினி, பரணி, கார்த்திகை என்ற வரிசையில் நட்சத்திர பெயர்களையும்

...ஆரம்ப- கணக்கு கல்வியில்... மாகாணி = 1/16... அரைக்கால் (ஆழாக்கு) = 1/8... கால் (உழக்கு) = 1/4... அரை = 1/2... முக்கால் = 3/4... ஒன்று =1 படி... மரக்கால் = 8 படி

... 1-16 வாய்ப்பாடும்... கால், அரைக்கால் பின்ன கணக்கு வாய்ப்பாடுகளும்...

...எண்ணிக்கையில் 1 - 10... வரையும்...

...பின் பத்து, இருபது, முப்பது, என்ற வரிசையில் பத்து பத்தாக நூறு வரையும்...

அடுத்து ஆயிரம், பதினாயிரம், லட்சம், கோடி... என்றும்

..பள்ளியில் சேர்க்கும் முன்பேயே... மனப்பாடமாய் ஒப்பிக்க கற்று தந்து விடுவது... முற்கால தமிழர் வழக்கம்.

பின்னர் ஐந்தாவது வயதிலிருந்து பள்ளியில் கற்பது எழுத்தறிவு.

அவ்வாறு துவக்க வீட்டுக்-கல்வியாய் மனப்பாடமாய் கற்கையில்... பத்து பத்தாக கூட்டி... பத்து இருபது... எழுபது, எண்பதுக்கு பின்... நூறுக்கு முந்தைய பத்து என்னும் நினைவை இருத்துவதற்காக...

...தொள் + நூறு (தொண்ணூறு) = 90 ...குறைபட்ட நூறு...

..தொள் + பத்து (தொண்பத்து) = 9 ... என்பது போல....

....என்று வாய்வழி கல்வியாய் வீட்டிலேயே தாத்தாக்கள் பேரன் பேத்திகளுக்கு கற்பிப்பர்

ஆம். அதுவே முற்கால தமிழரின் கணக்கு நியதி...

...தற்காலத்திலும்... தொண்ணூறு, தொள்ளாயிரம் என்பது...

...Winner-ஐ நெருங்கிய Runner கருத்தில் வசதியாக உள்ளது அன்றோ.?
.

[sar]

Tamil phonetics is unique from rest of the world due to two main reasons as i would think and say

1. It seemingy the only language that contains dependent and independent sounds....(thani oli & saarbu oli).... and for this there is a separate chapter in tamil grammar regarding to this (i think but not very sure) under the heading called 'punariyal'...

Hence the sounds although remains constant in one way it varies between depending upon the preceeding sound... (for example with ka , thangu - stay, thaagam - thirst and thaakkam - attack) this elaborates/accounts for one ka,cha,etc... which can be explained separately...

2. Secondly there only cetain ways of combination of sounds are allowed and some are considered as irregular.. ( for example nasal sounds cannot follow hard constanants means..abmu, asna, acme , these kind of combinations are not allowed in good tamil, as explained earlier by others)

and so for similar other reasons tamil phonetics is beleived to be highly different from rest of the world and Sanskrit especially...

so it derives to the fact that Tamil is of independent origin (from sanskrit, which some people are finding difficult to agree)

so also finally, its considered that in Tamil phonetics its wisely accompolished for simplicity, naturality with absolutely no unnecssary strain, legibility....

hence tamils dont want to lose their language not just due to independent uniqueness but also rich literature with independent cultural heritage.. which is beleived to be almost lost in the modern world...

[salem.saravanan]

http://sureshstories.blogspot.com/2009/04/blog-post_20.html

[Sudhaama]

.

.Unique provision: MUTH-THAMIZH (Three sorts of Tamil)...

...further proves it as a GREAT & UNPARALLEL Classical language...

... ...authentically established so... Internationally too.! How.?


Shall we discuss.?

.Dear Friends, What will be your Reply.. the Answer for this Question.?

I will join with you time to time... and clarify further deep on the matter.

Welcome.!.

Anbudan,
Sudhaama.
.

[sarna_blr]

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

.

பகை or பஹை ????

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????

[Sudhaama]

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

.

பகை or பஹை ????

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????

I reiterate... the word "KANNAKI" .. is pronounced as "KANHNHAHI".. only.

Yes. According to Tamil-Grammar... there are NO TWO or more Sorts of pronunciations..

..like English.

For example the Word "LABORATORY"... is pronounced in FIVE different ways by the English people themselves...

..which is permissible for them in English

..for which sort of confusion Tamil Language... does not permit.

So to say

பகை or பஹை ????... "பஹை" is ONLY CORRECT.

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????... கண்ணஹி is ONLY CORRECT.

KANHNHAHI... is the only Standard pronuciation... since so caused by the location of the relevant Consonant Letter...

..in this case... the letter "KA'

Similarly MURUHAN (Not MURUKAN... Nor MURUGAN.).. based on the location of "KA".. is only correct.

It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language.

[sarna_blr]

:ty: Sudhama sir :)

but

<<< It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language. >>>

am more keenly interested to know the reason behind your strong " should not " ???

[Sudhaama]

:ty: Sudhama sir :)

but

<<< It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language. >>>

am more keenly interested to know the reason behind your strong " should not " ???

Because... similar to French, Sanskrit and other indian Languages... there are Standard pronunciations stipulated in Tamil too...

..which should not be violated... nor pronounced different.

..unless it is the imported word from other Languages.

Rather, the imported words from other Languages, especially in cases of Proper-Nowns... have to be pronounced the same as of the Language of Origin.

For example...

The Word JESUS-CHRIST.. the Hebrew word... is pronounced as YESU KRISTH as per its Standard pronunciation..

..as also conforming to the same pronunciation as was the Great Prophet JESUS CHRIST was addressed too... as per the Holy Bible

Accordingly all the world-languages pronounce that word as per its ORIGINAL LANGUAGE STANDARD... as YESU KRISTH only.

Whereas ONLY IN ENGLISH... it is pronounced as JEESUS KRISTE / GEESUS KRYSTE.!

Similarly the French Word PARIS... is pronounced in French as PAARI..

..as per its Stipulated pronunciation of the Language of ORIGIN.

Whereas the Britishers pronounce that word PARIS... as per their own ENGLISHISED PRONUNCIATION... as PAERIS.!

..Can it be acceptable to the French people on PARIS.?

..Nor on the word JESUS CHRIST... by Israelis..?
.

[sar]

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

.

பகை or பஹை ????

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????

I reiterate... the word "KANNAKI" .. is pronounced as "KANHNHAHI".. only.

Yes. According to Tamil-Grammar... there are NO TWO or more Sorts of pronunciations..

..like English.

For example the Word "LABORATORY"... is pronounced in FIVE different ways by the English people themselves...

..which is permissible for them in English

..for which sort of confusion Tamil Language... does not permit.

So to say

பகை or பஹை ????... "பஹை" is ONLY CORRECT.

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????... கண்ணஹி is ONLY CORRECT.

KANHNHAHI... is the only Standard pronuciation... since so caused by the location of the relevant Consonant Letter...

..in this case... the letter "KA'

Similarly MURUHAN (Not MURUKAN... Nor MURUGAN.).. based on the location of "KA".. is only correct.

It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language.


Pronouncing பகை as பஹை or கண்ணகி as கண்ணஹி is like non standard corrupted usage... I suppose.

இது பேச்சு வழக்கில் மருவிய ஒலி அமைப்பே தவிர..... மற்றபடி 'ஹ' என்னும் ஒலி செந்தமிழ் இலக்கணத்தில் வரும் வல்லினமும் அன்று இடையினமும் அன்று என்று தான் நினைக்கத் தோன்றுகிறது;

I had this doubt for a while since few years ago.. but... if you listen to the standard tamil songs sung by professional singers or in standard speaches you wont get that sounded as 'h'.
For example if you had a closer hear at vinayagar agaval sung by seerkazhi govindarajan it would be most likely sounded as 'vezha mugamum' and 'thigazholhi Maarbum'. Ofcourse there are certain exceptions- does he exhibit the same pronounciation every instance is a question.

Or even if you listen to the song in film kadhalan as well..., it would be pronounced as 'kanhnhagi silai than ingunhdu'.. rather than 'kanhnhahi' which is just a evidence for people do consider the fact that 'g' is standard phonetical sound than 'h' in Tamil.

[Sudhaama]

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

.

பகை or பஹை ????

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????

I reiterate... the word "KANNAKI" .. is pronounced as "KANHNHAHI".. only.

Yes. According to Tamil-Grammar... there are NO TWO or more Sorts of pronunciations..

..like English.

For example the Word "LABORATORY"... is pronounced in FIVE different ways by the English people themselves...

..which is permissible for them in English

..for which sort of confusion Tamil Language... does not permit.

So to say

பகை or பஹை ????... "பஹை" is ONLY CORRECT.

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????... கண்ணஹி is ONLY CORRECT.

KANHNHAHI... is the only Standard pronuciation... since so caused by the location of the relevant Consonant Letter...

..in this case... the letter "KA'

Similarly MURUHAN (Not MURUKAN... Nor MURUGAN.).. based on the location of "KA".. is only correct.

It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language.

Pronouncing பகை as பஹை or கண்ணகி as கண்ணஹி is like non standard corrupted usage... I suppose.

இது பேச்சு வழக்கில் மருவிய ஒலி அமைப்பே தவிர..... மற்றபடி 'ஹ' என்னும் ஒலி செந்தமிழ் இலக்கணத்தில் வரும் வல்லினமும் அன்று இடையினமும் அன்று என்று தான் நினைக்கத் தோன்றுகிறது;

I had this doubt for a while since few years ago.. but... if you listen to the standard tamil songs sung by professional singers or in standard speaches you wont get that sounded as 'h'.
For example if you had a closer hear at vinayagar agaval sung by seerkazhi govindarajan it would be most likely sounded as 'vezha mugamum' and 'thigazholhi Maarbum'. Ofcourse there are certain exceptions- does he exhibit the same pronounciation every instance is a question.

Or even if you listen to the song in film kadhalan as well..., it would be pronounced as 'kanhnhagi silai than ingunhdu'.. rather than 'kanhnhahi' which is just a evidence for people do consider the fact that 'g' is standard phonetical sound than 'h' in Tamil.


Thanks for giving me a BETTER OPPORTUNITY... for INDEPTH Discussion.

Whatever I am writing here... are NOT MY OWN Opinions.. NOR INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTIONS... NOR SURMISE...

..But based on the Great Linguistic Scholars... analytical replies to the DENIGRATIVE CRITICISMS from the various Scholars of other Indian Languages...

..like Telugu, Kannada, Hindi, Marathi...

..who used to mock at theTamil Language... as just a TRIBAL LANGUAGE...

..UNFIT to stand at par with other Indian Languages...

...UNWORTHY to be categorised as the CLASSICAL LANGUAGE...

..because Tamil does not have any difference or varieties of Phonetics.... Unlike all other Indian Languages...

..rather Tamil Language is JUST A NOISE....

..mainly because there is NO PHONETIC DIFFERENCES between KA, GA... CHA, JA... TA, DA... PA, BA... and so on.

Only on such a MOCKERY sense as NOISE.. even now-a-days some Telugu people used to call Tamil... as ARAVAM... meaning NOISE.

And one more Argument that all the Indian Languages have originated from Sanskrit... including Tamil...

..which argument too has been refuted by several Tamil Scholars especially by Dr Suneethi Kumar Chatterji... in his book on DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGES...

..further ascertained by Dr. Hart, the American Scholar on Tamil.

On these points, I have already elaborated in detail... under earlier pages here.... REPEATEDLY right from my start on this Article in the FIRST PAGE itself.

Further if anybody needs more clarifications, I am prepared to furnish here.

Rajaji has analytically established this point in his book on this aspect.... based on several Tamil scholars findings.

Now on the point of "ஹ" (HA) sound on the Letter "க" (KA) in Tamil...

..how different individuals pronounce in their own way... is not our cosideration...

...but only on how it has been standardised.

As already analysed... every consonant letter has different Phonetics, depending on its location..

For example... the Tamil word... written as.... "கங்ககம்" (KANKAKAM)... with one and the same letter... "க" (KA) used thrice...

...has to be pronounced as.... "கங்கஹம்" (KANGAHAM).

The Word... "முருகன்" (MURUHAN)... is purely a Tamil word... must be pronounced according to Tamil phonetic standards...

...must be pronounced as... "முருஹன்" (MURUHAN) only... NOT as MURUGAN... nor MURUKAN.

How.?

Please observe how that word is pronounced by Tamil people

Does anybody call MURUGA... or MURUKA.?

The words... ஆகையால் AAHAIYAAL... ஆகா AAHA... ஆகியன AAHIYANA... ஆகட்டும் AAHATTUM... போகிறான் POAHIRAAN....

...வருகிறது VARUHIRADHU.... தகும் THAHUM... பகுதி PAHUDHI... சகதி CHAHADHI... மகிமை MAHIMAI.... மிகவும் MIHAVUM....

... how "க" (KA) CONSONANT is pronounced as "ஹ"...

... being a THUMB-RULE standard....
.
...similar to any popular Languages like French, German, Sanskrit etc....

...where there exist SPECIFIC NORMS and STANDARD of pronunciations. and Phonetics...
.
.

[sar]

Moderator's Note: Please observe some decorum when posting!
- நிச்சயம் கடைப்பிடிக்கிறேன்... தவறுகளுக்கு வருந்துகிறேன்.. மன்னிக்கவும் - sar

Dear Thiru Sudhamaa,

I am sorry to find that Your explanation regarding phonetics is not convincing enough to me!!!

Because my point of view-argument is if it is pronounced as 'ha' then it cannot be classed in 'vallinam' which is transliterated as ' hard pronouncing constonants' which 'ha' is not, but ka or ga is.

but rather sort of aytha ezhuthu....

-deleted by moderator-

if certain phonetical sounds are omitted (which are in sanskrit) then they are omitted for a strongly valid reason... as I suppose... Need to just ignore the denigrative comments... And not to justify any linguistics by reasoning out validity behind those comments... thats all I would suggest... now.

-deleted by moderator-
கோப-தாபத்தில் எழுதியதை நீக்கியதற்கு நன்றி...

Also I happen to come across this article about this fairly well known historical incident which happened few hundred years ago:

You might know and heard well about Holy saint Kanchi Sankaracharya - founder of the Sankara Matam and Holy Saint Vallalar - founder of Sanmaargha Sangham. Both are revered high as Holy saints and Bhakthimaans. But they have difference in opinion about relegious philosophies they follow and the languages;

When once there was an argument between these two great saints it seems they had a difference in opinion about superiority of language and its spritual purpose to the mankind - whether it is Tamil or Sanskrit (both are now considered as classical languages - Divine as per learned scholors/thinkers point of view.. like some other world languages... there is nodoubt in that but...); It seems when Kanchi Sarkaracharya told that it is Sanskrit that is most superior and it is the mother of all languages, but the other Saint Vallalar replied that 'Oh! Well, in that case Tamil would be the Father of all the Languages which could be equally purposeful to man kind' atleast .

Hence I beleive it is not wise to conclude any linguistics superiority without proper reasoning and knowledge, when great philosophical saints themselves could not come for a agreeable conclusion...

When do the people have the maturity to acknowledge and appreciate the real merit of any thing that they encounter in their life which is not theirs, then only there is possiblity of better quality of (or atleast improvement of) the life of the society; - this is my opinion... at least.

[Sudhaama]

[tscii:0520c23bbd].

Difference between... AHDHU... and AKDHU.

Dear "sar".

The Aayudha Ezhuthu... ·... has only one pronunciation as "ஹ்"... "IH" ...

..and it can never be the first or the last letter of any word... but only the INTERMEDIATE Letter...

..to shape words as அ·து (AHDU)... ப·றுளி (PAHRHULHI)... எ·கு (EHKU)... அ·கம் (AHKAM) etc.

The letter க ("KA")... if happens to get located in the middle OF ANY WORD as க் ("IK")... followed by க ("KA")..

...then it gets the Phonetics as க் ("IK") Only... and NOT ஹ் ("IH").

...such as தக்கது (THAKKADHU)... பக்கம் (PAKKAM)... வக்கு (VAKKU)... திக்கு (THIKKU)... சக்கரம் (CHAKKARAM)... மிக்க (MIKKA).... எக்கி (EKKI)... பாக்கி PAAKKI... and so on... without exception.

That is the Grammatical standard in Tamil.

Regarding the varied pronunciations of Consonant letters in Tamil..

... please go through the earlier pages... especially the Opening pages...

..where I have answered all these questions on how and why ...

....ONE AND THE SAME CONSONANT LETTER IN TAMIL... creates different pronunciations in TAMIL ONLY...

..Unlike any other Indian Languages.

Rather upto some extent.. Tamil is similar to English... Yes upto some extent only...

..wherein to0, there is no standard pronunciation or phonetics for the letters...

...UNLIKE Most of the World Languages... and other Indian LANGUAGES...

..Where only one standard pronunciation is available for EACH LETTER... at the ORIGIN STATUS itself.

In all the Languages in general... the Letters form the Syllables...

..and ONLY THE SYLLABLES have the phonetics.

English has no standard pronunciation... unlike other European Languages, especially French and German...

For example the same word with the same spelling... HAND in English is pronounced as HUND... in German...

..and LAND as LUND... SAND as SUND.... RAND as RUND and so on...

...Based on UNIFORM BASIS... Unlike English... where we cannot answer why... BUT and PUT... are pronounced different

Whereas in Tamil...there is a uniform pronunciation basis as a standard... for all such order of consonant clubbed with vowels...

..depending on the ORDER and SEQUENCE OF LETTERS.

Tamil phonetics start from its Syllables... but NOT FROM LETTERS...

..Unlike the cases of other Indian Languages... where the Phonetics start from the Letters too.

Rather for example... in other Indian Languages... the Letter KA can be pronounced as KA only... wherever it may be placed.

Whereas in case of Tamil... I reiterate that one and the same consonant letter க ("KA") has THREE DIFFERENT PHONETICS... as KA, GA and HA....

CHA... as ச (CHA), ஜ (JA), ஸ (SA).

PA... as PA, BA.

..depending on the respective Consonant's letters location...

...unlike Sanskrit and other Indian Languages.

So we find it difficult to transliterate other Languages into Tamil Script... of RADICALLY DIFFERENT PHONETICS Basis.

..GANDHI - KANTHI... GANAM- KANAM...

..while we have NO CONFUSION in pronouncing any ORIGINAL Tamil word...

...conforming to Tamil's UNIFORM BASIS OF PHONETIC-CODE.
.
.[/tscii:0520c23bbd]

[sar]

தனியொலி சார்புஒலி பற்றிய தங்கள் கருத்தை ஏற்றுக்கொண்டாலும் முரு'ஹ'ன் என்று கூறியதில் மட்டும் வேறுபடுகிறேன்.. முழுமையாக ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள இயலவில்லை...

ka-ga என்று வருவது வரைக்கும் ok... 'ha' என்றுமயா வரும்? well... according to செந்தமிழ்... I differ in this point of view...

[Sarna]

தின்று ? திண்று ?

எது சரி ?

மருபடியும் ? மறுபடியும் ?

எது சரி ?

[Sudhaama]

தின்று ? திண்று ?

எது சரி ?

மருபடியும் ? மறுபடியும் ?

எது சரி ?

தின்று ... மறுபடியும் : சரி

.

[bis_mala]

To forumers who like to believe that Arabs introduced sugar, sugar cane to the Indians:

The Arab role was to diffuse several crops from India to the Middle East, and sugar cane and bananas were among them. Sugar cane is a plant of humid tropical climate. The diffusion is dated to after c 636-44 CE. The Arabs became active in such activities during the Pax Islamica. Read JD Holloway and also Watson (1983).

On sugar cane during Sangam period, references are given in the thread: Tamil Word Development.

Words for future discussion: South East Asian words for sweet, sugarcane, sugarcane plantation etc.,

tamis. - sweet.

tubuhan:: (noun) (rw. TUBO) sugarcane plantation or field
tubo1:: (noun) sugarcane

gula - sugar

manis - sweet

gula melaka!!

[tscii:fa03a736df] ºì¸¨Ã ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø À¢Ä¢ôÀ¢ýŠ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø þø¨Ä. «íÌ "ºì¸" ±ýÈ¡ø Üξġ¸, À¢ÈÌ ±ýÚ ¦À¡Õû.

¸ÕõÒ ÀüÈ¢ò ¾¢ÕìÌÈÇ¢Öõ Á½¢§Á¸¨Ä¢Öõ ÅÕõ º¢Ä ÌÈ¢ôÒ¸¨Ç þíÌì ¸¡½Ä¡õ:

http://sivamaalaa.blogspot.com/

on cakkarai:-

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?p=1850508#1850508

[/tscii:fa03a736df]

[bis_mala]

[tscii:3968f382f2]ºí¸¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø ÁðÎõ º£É¢ , ¸ÕõÒ ¦¾¡¼÷À¡É ¦º¡ü¸û, 260-ìÌ §Áø ¯ûÇÉ. þòШ½ «¾¢¸Á¡É ¦º¡ü¸Ç¢ÕôÀÐ, þô¦À¡Õû¸Ù¼ý þó¾¢Â÷¸ÙìÌ ¿£ñ¼ ¦¾¡¼÷Ò þ¢Õó¾¨Á¨Â§Â ¸¡ðΞ¡Ìõ.

¾Á¢Æ¢Öõ, º£É¢, º÷츨Ã, ¸ÕôÀðÊ, ¦ÅøÄõ, ¸ü¸ñÎ, ¸ñ¨¼ ӾĢ ¦º¡ü¸û ÒÆì¸ò¾¢ø ¯ûÇÉ. ¸ÕõÒ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖõ ¾Á¢ú¡øÄ¡ö ¯ûÇÐ. ¾Á¢Æ¢ø «ÚÀÐìÌ §ÁüÀð¼ ¦º¡ü¸û þ¨ÅÀüÈ¢ÂÉ.

ÁÄ¡ö ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø º£É¢¨Âì ÌÈ¢ì¸ ÅÆíÌõ gula ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø ºí¸¾ò¾¢Ä¢ÕóÐ ¦ÀÈôÀðÊÕì¸Ä¡õ. þ¡ø ºí¸¾ò¾¢Öõ ¯ûÇÐ. þ¾üÌ "§¸¡Çí¸Ç¡¸" ¯ûÇ ¦À¡Õû ±ýÚ «÷ò¾õ. (granules or large grains). "§¸¡Çõ (Tamil) - gula" ¦¾¡¼÷Ò ¦¾Ã¢¸¢ÈÐ. §¸¡Çõ ±ýÀÐ ¯Õñ¨¼ ÅÊŢɾ¡Ìõ.. [/tscii:3968f382f2]

[bis_mala]

[tscii:2f10714d8a]þÉ¢ôÒì ¸ðʸ¨Ç, ¯Õñ¨¼¸¨Ç, иû¸¨Çì ÌÈ¢ìÌõ ¾Á¢ú¡ü¸û ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ý ¯ÕÅò¾¢ý «øÄÐ ¦ºöÂôÀð¼À¢ý ¸¡Ïõ ¿¢¨Ä¢ý «ÊôÀ¨¼Â¢ø ±Øó¾ ¦º¡ü¸Ç¡õ.

º£É¢ : º¢ø > º¢ý > º£ý > º£É¢. ( º¢ø- º¢Ú¨Á).
º÷츨Ã: ºì¸+ «¨Ã («¨Ãì¸ôÀð¼Ð «øÄÐ þÊì¸ôÀð¼Ð).
¸ÕôÀðÊ - ¸¡öîºôÀð¼ ¸Õ¨Á ¿¢Èò¾¢ÉÐ
¦ÅøÄõ - ¦Åñ¨Á¡ÉÐ. ¦Åû<>¦Åø; ´ôÒ§¿¡ì̸: ¦Áø> ¦Áû: ¦ÁøÄ > ¦ÁûÇ.
¸ü¸ñÎ - ¸ø §À¡ýÈ ÐñÎ.
¸ñ¨¼ - ÐñÎ. (¸ñÎ+³).

º£É¢¨ÂôÀüÈ¢ Óý þíÌ ±Ø¾ôÀðÊÕó¾Ð ±ýÚ ±ý ¿¢¨ÉÅ¢ø ¯ûÇÐ, 1950 š츢ø ¦ºó¾Á¢úøŢ¢ø «Ð º¢ø ±ýÀ¾¢É¢ýÚ À¢Èó¾ ¾Á¢ú¡ø ±ýÈ ¬ö× ¦ÅǢ¢¼ô¦ÀüÈ¢Õó¾Ð. þ¾üÌÓý, ¾Á¢ú «È¢»÷ ¸.À Á¸¢ú¿ý (ÀÄ ¦º¡ø ¬ö׸û §Áü¦¸¡ñ¼Å÷) «Ð º£É¡ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÄ¢ø þÕóÐ Åó¾¢Õì¸Ä¡õ ±ýÈ ¸Õò¨¾ Óý ¨Åò¾¢Õó¾¡÷. ¬¸§Å º¢Ú¨Áì¸Õò¨¾ «ÊôÀ¨¼Â¡¸ì¦¸¡ñÎ , «Ð Åó¾ §¾ºò¨¾Ôõ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¡ø ¯½÷òÐÁ¡Ú ¾¢ÈÛ¼ý «¨Áì¸ô¦ÀüÈ ¦º¡ø. þôÀÊî ¦º¡ü¸¨Ç «¨ÁôÀ¾üÌò ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ¿øÄ ¯ÕÅ¡ì¸ Åº¾¢¸û ¯ûÇÉ. ÀÄ ¦º¡ü¸û þí¹Éõ «¨ÁóÐûÇÉ ±ýÀ¨¾Ôõ «¨Å ¦ÅÇ¢¿¡ðÎ ¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ü¸§Ç¡Î ´Ä¢¦Â¡üÚ¨Áô ÀÎõÀÊ ¦ºöÂôÀðÎûÇÉ ±ýÀ¨¾Ôõ §ÅÚ ¬öÅ¡Ç÷¸û ±ÎòÐ측ðÊÔûÇÉ÷. (À¡Ã¡ÙÁýÈõ - Parliament: ´Ä¢¦Â¡üÚ¨Á ¸¡ñ¸. þÐÀ¢ý ¿¡¼¡ÙÁýÈõ ±ýÚ «È¢»÷ «ñ½¡Ð¨Ã¡ø ÁÚÒ¨É× ¦ºöÂôÀð¼Ð ±ýÚ ¬öÅ¡Ç÷ ÜÚÅ÷.). [/tscii:2f10714d8a]

[Sudhaama]

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. வலி - வளி - வழி.!



what's with the H at the end? numerology ah? :?

ஒரு வேளை "ள்" என்று உச்சரிக்கவேண்டும், "ல்" அன்று என்று தெரிவிக்கவோ? எனக்கும் புரியவில்லையே!

சுமார் ஐந்து வருடங்களுக்கு முன்பு... இந்த இழையை நான் துவக்கியபோதே... நீங்கள் கேட்ட இதே கேள்வியை தமிழ் இலக்கிய-அன்பர் திரு ஹரிகிருஷ்ணன் கேட்டிருந்தார்..

அவருக்கு விவரமாக விளக்கம் அளித்திருக்கிறேன். முடிந்தால் புரட்டி பாருங்கள்.

..இருப்பினும் சுருக்கமாக மீண்டும் விளக்குகிறேன்..

தமிழ்ச் சொல்லை ஆங்கில எழுத்தாக்கம் (Transliterate) செய்கையிலே. திருக்குறள்... என்னும் சொல்லில்... "குரலுக்கும்" "குறளுக்கும்" .. வித்தியாசம் காட்டவே இவ்வாறு "H" என்னும் எழுத்தைப்
பயன்படுத்துவது... சுமார் 500 ஆண்டுகளாக... 1940-ஆம் ஆண்டுக்கு முந்தைய கால மதுரை தமிழ்ச்சங்க மரபு....

[ஆனால் வேறு முறைகளும்... ஆங்கிலேயர்களால் புதிதாக உண்டாக்கப்பட்டு புகுத்தப்பட்டன... என்பது தனிச்செய்தி.]

மதுரை தமிழ்ச்சங்கம் வகுத்த முறையில்... தற்காலத்தைய புதிய மரபு போல... ஆங்கில தலைப்பு-எழுத்து வகைகளான R, L, A, E, U, I, O போன்றவை... ஏனைய எழுத்துக்களினின்றும் அதிக
முக்கியத்துவம் கொண்டு கொட்டை கொட்டையாக நம் கண்களை உறுத்தும் வகையில்... பயன்படுத்தப்படுவது 1940-ஆம் ஆண்டுக்கு முன்பு, அக்காலத்தில் இல்லை....

உதாரணமாக ஒரு வாக்கியம்:---.... "ஓடி வந்த கள்ளழகரிடம்... ராஜாராமன் ஏக்கத்துடன் சொன்னார்... "கற்றது கை-மண் அளவே" என்று.

New Style:--- Odi vantha kaLLazakaritam... rAjArAman, Ekkathutan sonnAr... "kaRRathu kai-maN aLavE"... enRu.

Traditional Tamil-Sangam Style:--- Oadi vandha Kalhlhazhaharidam... Raajaaraaman yaekkaththudan sonnaar... "katradhu Kai-manh Alhavae" yenrhu.

வட-இந்திய மொழிகளில்... தலை, தளை, தழை.. போன்ற சொற்கள் கிடையா.. எல்லாம் ஒரே உச்சரிப்பு தான் "தலை" என்று மட்டுமே.

ஆனால் தமிழில்... வலிக்கும், வளிக்கும், வழிக்கும் பெருத்த வித்தியாசம் உள்ளது.... மேலும் ... கொல்லை-கொள்ளை,...குளம்பு-குழம்பு... வலம்-வளம்...

எனவே தான்... தமிழ்-மொழிக்கு சிறப்பு- தேவைகளான... "ழ" = "ZHA"... ... "ற" = RHA .... "ள" = LHA.... என்று நெறி வகுக்கப்பட்டது.

ஆகவே தான் ஆங்கிலேயர் காலத்திலேயே... சுமார் 500 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்பிருந்தே மேற்கண்ட தமிழ்ச்சங்க எழுத்தாக்கம் (Transliterate) முறை கடைப்பிடிக்கப்பட்டு... முற்கால தமிழ்

இலக்கியங்கள் யாவும்... திருக்குறள், கம்ப-ராமாயணம், ஐம்பெரும் காப்பியங்கள் போன்றவை ஆங்கில-எழுத்து வடிவில் மூல-நூல்கள் எழுத்தாக்கம் செய்யப்பட்டு உலகு எங்கும் புத்தகங்கள் வெளி

வந்தன.

ஆகவே அவ்வகையிலே... திருக்குறள் = THIRUK-KURHALH.... என எழுத்தாக்கம் (Transliterate)் செய்யப்படுகிறது.

தமிழிலும் ஆங்கில-மொழியிலும் மெத்தவும் புலமை கொண்ட முற்காலத்து வல்லுனர்களான... பேராசிரியர் திரு ரா.பி. சேதுப்பிள்ளை,... பேராசிரியர் திரு. அ. சீனிவாச ராகவன் போன்ற பேரறிஞர்கள்
கையாண்ட முறையும் இதுவே.... நானும் கடைப்பிடிப்பது...

...தற்கால "திருதிரு உறுத்தல்" எழுத்தாக்க முறை உங்களுக்கு மனம் ஒப்புகிறதா.?
..
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தலைப்பு THIRUK-KURHALH. என்றில்லாமல், THIRUKKURALH என்றே போடப்பட்டுள்ளது, அதாவது, ரகர றகர வேறுபாடு போற்றப்படவில்லை என்று கூறுவது சரி எனலாமா?



ஆம். நீங்கள் சுட்டிக்காட்டிய பிழை.., எனது தவறு தான்.... ற = r h ... என்று தான் எழுத்தாக்கம் செய்தல் வேண்டும்.

மேற்குறிப்பிட்ட தமிழ்ச் சங்க முறையில் ஆங்கில தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களே பயன் படுத்துவது இல்லை. ஆங்கில-மொழியின் 26 எழுத்துக்களை மேலோட்டமாக 52 எழுத்துக்களாக்கி விட்டதால்...

பிரச்சினை தீர்ந்து-விடுமா.? குழப்பம் அல்லவோ.? எப்படி.?

இந்திய மொழிகளிலும், வேறு எந்த நாட்டு மொழியிலும் இல்லாத வகையில்... ஐரோப்பிய மொழிகளில் மட்டுமே... இவ்வாறு தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களை (Capital Letters) ஏன் உண்டாக்கினர்.?

(1) ஒவ்வொரு வாக்கிய முடிவையும் காட்டுவது முற்றுப்புள்ளி அல்லவா.?...அல்லது உணர்ச்சிக்-குறிகளான... கேள்விக்-குறி (?)... ஆச்சரியக்-குறி.(!}.. போன்றவையும் வாக்கிய-முடிவைச் சுட்டும்.

உலக மொழிகள் அனைத்தும் தற்காலத்தில் ஏற்றுக்கொண்டுள்ள இத்தகைய குறிகளை உருவாக்கியவர்கள் ஐரோபியர்களே.!

நாளடைவில் நாடக-மொழியில் மக்கள் படிக்கத் துவங்கி விட்டதால்... கேள்விக்குறியோ ஆச்சரியக்குறியோ இல்லாத வாக்கிய முடிவில் முற்றுப்புள்ளி அழுத்தமாக புலப்படவில்லையானால்

அடுத்தடுத்த வாக்கியச்சொற்களையும் கூட்டிப்படித்து குழப்பமே மிஞ்சும் அன்றோ.? எனவே ஒவ்வொரு வாக்கிய துவக்கத்தையும் குறிக்க... முதல் எழுத்தாக ஒரு தலைப்பு-எழுத்தின் தேவையை

விஞ்ஞானம் வளர்ந்த காலத்தில் ஐரொப்பியர்கள் உணர்ந்தனர். எனவே இத்தகைய தலைப்பு-எழுத்துக்கள்... A, B, C... என்ற வகையிலே உண்டாக்கப்பட்டன. .

(2) ஐரோப்பிய கலாச்சாரதில்... woods, stone, grips, shepherd போன்ற சாமான்னிய சொற்களளே... சிலருக்கு பெயர்களாகவும்... ஊர்களுக்கும் நதிகளுக்கும்... நிர்வாக கம்பெனிகளுக்கும்

பெயர்களாகவும் அமைந்தன. எனவே அவற்றுள் வித்தியாசம் காட்ட தனி எழுத்து... Proper-Nown என்ற பெயரிலே தேவைப்பட்டது. இத்தகைய குழப்பம் தமிழ்-மொழியில் இல்லை. எப்படி.?

தமிழர் கலாச்சாரத்ENNUM திலும் கூட... மண்ணாங்கட்டி.... அம்மாவாசை... மலை... பாப்பா... அப்பன்... கள்ளன்... போன்ற பெயர்- மரபு நிலவுகிறது எனினுமே.!

அந்நிலையிலே... சாமான்னிய பொருளுக்கும் மனிதப்பெயருக்கும் வேறுபடுத்தி தமிழில் காட்ட இயலும். எப்படி.?

அம்மாவாசை நேற்று வந்தது... அம்மாவாசை இன்று வந்தான்.... மண்ணாங்கட்டி மண்ணாங்கட்டியை தூக்கி வந்தான்./// பாப்பா நேற்று வந்தாள்... அவளது பாப்பா, இன்று வரப்போகிறது...

மலை மலைக்கு போயிருக்கிறான்.... அப்பன் சொன்னார்... நான் அவரது அப்பனிடம் கூறி விட்டேன்.

(3) மேலும் சங்கிலி எழுத்தாய் ஐரோப்பிய மொழிகளை எழுதுகையிலே... சில சொற்களுக்கு அழுத்தம் கொடுக்க அவர்களுக்கு... ஒரு தனி எழுத்து-வகை தேவைப்பட்டது... மேலும் சங்கிலி எழுத்தில்

விளக்க இயலாத சில சொற்களுக்கு அவ்வகை மிக இன்றியமையாததானது... பெயர்களை குறிப்பிட Name in CAPITAL LETTERS Please... என்பது போல

எனவே அவை ஏனைய எழுத்துக்களிடையே உள்ளங்கை நெல்லிக்கனியாய்... துலங்கின.... கண்ணை உறுத்தும் வகையிலே திருதிருவென்று.

அத்தகைய தனித்தன்மை வாய்ந்த தலைப்பு-எழுத்து வகைகளை... நாம் தமிழில் பயன் படுத்தினால்.... ஏனைய எழுத்துக்களை காட்டிலும் ஆ, ஊ, ஈ, ஏ, ஓ, ற, ள போன்ற எழுத்துக்களை மட்டும்

அழுத்தம் காட்டுவது தேவையா.?...

...இம்முறை நம் கண்ணை உறுத்தவில்லையா.?.

இம்முறையிலே மேலும் ஒரு பிரச்சினை எழுகிறது.. தமிழின் தனித்தன்மைக்கு ஒவ்வாத இடையூறு.!... ஏற்கனவே கூறியதை மீண்டும் நினைவு கொள்வோம்.

ஆங்கிலம் தவிர... உலகின் முக்கிய மொழிகளின் உச்சரிப்பு அதன் ஒவ்வொரு எழுத்திலேயே துவங்கி விடுகிறது... Letter-based PRONUJNCIATION and PHONETICS

மாறாக தமிழ்-மொழி மட்டுமே அவ்வந்த இடத்திற்கு ஏற்ப.. ஒரே எழுத்தின் உச்சரிப்பு மாறும்... இந்த நிலை ஆங்கில-மொழிக்கும் உண்டு என்றாலும்... ஆங்கிலத்தில் ஒரு நெறிபட்ட உச்சரிப்பு

(Standard Pronunciation) கிடையாது...

உதாரணமாக.. ...PUT - BUT... ... WAS - GAS.... ... GEORGE - GORGE... ... CITE - SITE... ... CHORUS - CORE... .

ஆனால் தமிழில் குழப்பம்-இல்லா வகையிலே முரண்பாடு ஏதும் இன்றி... ஒரு சிறுவன் கூட எளிதாக புரிந்து கொள்ள முடியும்.

தவிர, ஆங்கில மொழி போல... "கேள்விக்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விதி (Unquestionable Thumb-Rule) ஏதும் கிடையாது.

அதாவது... தமிழிலே ஒரே எழுத்துக்கு பல உச்சரிப்புகள் உண்டு.. ஒரு குறிப்பிட்ட நெறிப்படி.

அதாவது க என்னும் ஒரே எழுத்து... KA, GA, HA என்னும் வகையிலே வேறுபடும்.. இடத்திற்கு தக்கபடி....

எப்படி என்னும் விளக்கம் இங்கு முன்னமேயே கண்டோம்...

உதாரணமாக... கங்ககம் = KANGAHAM என உச்சரிப்பு கொள்கிறது... ஒரே எழுத்து "க"... KA , GA, HA... என்னும் வகையிலே வேறுபடுகிறது.

தமிழுக்கு மட்டுமே உண்டான இத்தகைய தனித்தன்மை இந்த திருதிரு எழுத்தாக்க முறையிலே கருத்தில் கொள்ளப்படவில்லை.. எனவே குழப்பமே மேலிடுகிறது" என்பதே தமிழ்ச்சங்க வல்லுனர்களின்

குற்றச்சாட்டு.

ஆகவே தமிழ்-மொழிக்கு முற்றிலும் ஏற்ற எழுத்தாக்க முறை... மதுரை தமிழ்ச்சங்கத்தார் வகுத்துள்ள மேற்கண்ட நமது முறையே.!



இம்முறையில், TH=த ; அப்படியானால், ( T = ? t = ?) என்றும் அறிந்துகொள்ளலாமா? ்
tks.

ta = ட..... tha = த.... "T" போன்ற தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களே... நமது எழுத்தாக்க- முறையிலே பயன்பாட்டில் கிடையாது.

.

[bis_mala]

.


.

. வலி - வளி - வழி.!



what's with the H at the end? numerology ah? :?

ஒரு வேளை "ள்" என்று உச்சரிக்கவேண்டும், "ல்" அன்று என்று தெரிவிக்கவோ? எனக்கும் புரியவில்லையே!

சுமார் ஐந்து வருடங்களுக்கு முன்பு... இந்த இழையை நான் துவக்கியபோதே... நீங்கள் கேட்ட இதே கேள்வியை தமிழ் இலக்கிய-அன்பர் திரு ஹரிகிருஷ்ணன் கேட்டிருந்தார்..

அவருக்கு விவரமாக விளக்கம் அளித்திருக்கிறேன். முடிந்தால் புரட்டி பாருங்கள்.

..இருப்பினும் சுருக்கமாக மீண்டும் விளக்குகிறேன்..

தமிழ்ச் சொல்லை ஆங்கில எழுத்தாக்கம் (Transliterate) செய்கையிலே. திருக்குறள்... என்னும் சொல்லில்... "குரலுக்கும்" "குறளுக்கும்" .. வித்தியாசம் காட்டவே இவ்வாறு "H" என்னும் எழுத்தைப்
பயன்படுத்துவது... சுமார் 500 ஆண்டுகளாக... 1940-ஆம் ஆண்டுக்கு முந்தைய கால மதுரை தமிழ்ச்சங்க மரபு....

[ஆனால் வேறு முறைகளும்... ஆங்கிலேயர்களால் புதிதாக உண்டாக்கப்பட்டு புகுத்தப்பட்டன... என்பது தனிச்செய்தி.]

மதுரை தமிழ்ச்சங்கம் வகுத்த முறையில்... தற்காலத்தைய புதிய மரபு போல... ஆங்கில தலைப்பு-எழுத்து வகைகளான R, L, A, E, U, I, O போன்றவை... ஏனைய எழுத்துக்களினின்றும் அதிக
முக்கியத்துவம் கொண்டு கொட்டை கொட்டையாக நம் கண்களை உறுத்தும் வகையில்... பயன்படுத்தப்படுவது 1940-ஆம் ஆண்டுக்கு முன்பு, அக்காலத்தில் இல்லை....

உதாரணமாக ஒரு வாக்கியம்:---.... "ஓடி வந்த கள்ளழகரிடம்... ராஜாராமன் ஏக்கத்துடன் சொன்னார்... "கற்றது கை-மண் அளவே" என்று.

New Style:--- Odi vantha kaLLazakaritam... rAjArAman, Ekkathutan sonnAr... "kaRRathu kai-maN aLavE"... enRu.

Traditional Tamil-Sangam Style:--- Oadi vandha Kalhlhazhaharidam... Raajaaraaman yaekkaththudan sonnaar... "katradhu Kai-manh Alhavae" yenrhu.

வட-இந்திய மொழிகளில்... தலை, தளை, தழை.. போன்ற சொற்கள் கிடையா.. எல்லாம் ஒரே உச்சரிப்பு தான் "தலை" என்று மட்டுமே.

ஆனால் தமிழில்... வலிக்கும், வளிக்கும், வழிக்கும் பெருத்த வித்தியாசம் உள்ளது.... மேலும் ... கொல்லை-கொள்ளை,...குளம்பு-குழம்பு... வலம்-வளம்...

எனவே தான்... தமிழ்-மொழிக்கு சிறப்பு- தேவைகளான... "ழ" = "ZHA"... ... "ற" = RHA .... "ள" = LHA.... என்று நெறி வகுக்கப்பட்டது.

ஆகவே தான் ஆங்கிலேயர் காலத்திலேயே... சுமார் 500 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்பிருந்தே மேற்கண்ட தமிழ்ச்சங்க எழுத்தாக்கம் (Transliterate) முறை கடைப்பிடிக்கப்பட்டு... முற்கால தமிழ்

இலக்கியங்கள் யாவும்... திருக்குறள், கம்ப-ராமாயணம், ஐம்பெரும் காப்பியங்கள் போன்றவை ஆங்கில-எழுத்து வடிவில் மூல-நூல்கள் எழுத்தாக்கம் செய்யப்பட்டு உலகு எங்கும் புத்தகங்கள் வெளி

வந்தன.

ஆகவே அவ்வகையிலே... திருக்குறள் = THIRUK-KURHALH.... என எழுத்தாக்கம் (Transliterate)் செய்யப்படுகிறது.

தமிழிலும் ஆங்கில-மொழியிலும் மெத்தவும் புலமை கொண்ட முற்காலத்து வல்லுனர்களான... பேராசிரியர் திரு ரா.பி. சேதுப்பிள்ளை,... பேராசிரியர் திரு. அ. சீனிவாச ராகவன் போன்ற பேரறிஞர்கள்
கையாண்ட முறையும் இதுவே.... நானும் கடைப்பிடிப்பது...

...தற்கால "திருதிரு உறுத்தல்" எழுத்தாக்க முறை உங்களுக்கு மனம் ஒப்புகிறதா.?
..
.




தலைப்பு THIRUK-KURHALH. என்றில்லாமல், THIRUKKURALH என்றே போடப்பட்டுள்ளது, அதாவது, ரகர றகர வேறுபாடு போற்றப்படவில்லை என்று கூறுவது சரி எனலாமா?



ஆம். நீங்கள் சுட்டிக்காட்டிய பிழை.., எனது தவறு தான்.... ற = r h ... என்று தான் எழுத்தாக்கம் செய்தல் வேண்டும்.

மேற்குறிப்பிட்ட தமிழ்ச் சங்க முறையில் ஆங்கில தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களே பயன் படுத்துவது இல்லை. ஆங்கில-மொழியின் 26 எழுத்துக்களை மேலோட்டமாக 52 எழுத்துக்களாக்கி விட்டதால்...

பிரச்சினை தீர்ந்து-விடுமா.? குழப்பம் அல்லவோ.? எப்படி.?

இந்திய மொழிகளிலும், வேறு எந்த நாட்டு மொழியிலும் இல்லாத வகையில்... ஐரோப்பிய மொழிகளில் மட்டுமே... இவ்வாறு தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களை (Capital Letters) ஏன் உண்டாக்கினர்.?

(1) ஒவ்வொரு வாக்கிய முடிவையும் காட்டுவது முற்றுப்புள்ளி அல்லவா.?...அல்லது உணர்ச்சிக்-குறிகளான... கேள்விக்-குறி (?)... ஆச்சரியக்-குறி.(!}.. போன்றவையும் வாக்கிய-முடிவைச் சுட்டும்.

உலக மொழிகள் அனைத்தும் தற்காலத்தில் ஏற்றுக்கொண்டுள்ள இத்தகைய குறிகளை உருவாக்கியவர்கள் ஐரோபியர்களே.!

நாளடைவில் நாடக-மொழியில் மக்கள் படிக்கத் துவங்கி விட்டதால்... கேள்விக்குறியோ ஆச்சரியக்குறியோ இல்லாத வாக்கிய முடிவில் முற்றுப்புள்ளி அழுத்தமாக புலப்படவில்லையானால்

அடுத்தடுத்த வாக்கியச்சொற்களையும் கூட்டிப்படித்து குழப்பமே மிஞ்சும் அன்றோ.? எனவே ஒவ்வொரு வாக்கிய துவக்கத்தையும் குறிக்க... முதல் எழுத்தாக ஒரு தலைப்பு-எழுத்தின் தேவையை

விஞ்ஞானம் வளர்ந்த காலத்தில் ஐரொப்பியர்கள் உணர்ந்தனர். எனவே இத்தகைய தலைப்பு-எழுத்துக்கள்... A, B, C... என்ற வகையிலே உண்டாக்கப்பட்டன. .

(2) ஐரோப்பிய கலாச்சாரதில்... woods, stone, grips, shepherd போன்ற சாமான்னிய சொற்களளே... சிலருக்கு பெயர்களாகவும்... ஊர்களுக்கும் நதிகளுக்கும்... நிர்வாக கம்பெனிகளுக்கும்

பெயர்களாகவும் அமைந்தன. எனவே அவற்றுள் வித்தியாசம் காட்ட தனி எழுத்து... Proper-Nown என்ற பெயரிலே தேவைப்பட்டது. இத்தகைய குழப்பம் தமிழ்-மொழியில் இல்லை. எப்படி.?

தமிழர் கலாச்சாரத்ENNUM திலும் கூட... மண்ணாங்கட்டி.... அம்மாவாசை... மலை... பாப்பா... அப்பன்... கள்ளன்... போன்ற பெயர்- மரபு நிலவுகிறது எனினுமே.!

அந்நிலையிலே... சாமான்னிய பொருளுக்கும் மனிதப்பெயருக்கும் வேறுபடுத்தி தமிழில் காட்ட இயலும். எப்படி.?

அம்மாவாசை நேற்று வந்தது... அம்மாவாசை இன்று வந்தான்.... மண்ணாங்கட்டி மண்ணாங்கட்டியை தூக்கி வந்தான்./// பாப்பா நேற்று வந்தாள்... அவளது பாப்பா, இன்று வரப்போகிறது...

மலை மலைக்கு போயிருக்கிறான்.... அப்பன் சொன்னார்... நான் அவரது அப்பனிடம் கூறி விட்டேன்.

(3) மேலும் சங்கிலி எழுத்தாய் ஐரோப்பிய மொழிகளை எழுதுகையிலே... சில சொற்களுக்கு அழுத்தம் கொடுக்க அவர்களுக்கு... ஒரு தனி எழுத்து-வகை தேவைப்பட்டது... மேலும் சங்கிலி எழுத்தில்

விளக்க இயலாத சில சொற்களுக்கு அவ்வகை மிக இன்றியமையாததானது... பெயர்களை குறிப்பிட Name in CAPITAL LETTERS Please... என்பது போல

எனவே அவை ஏனைய எழுத்துக்களிடையே உள்ளங்கை நெல்லிக்கனியாய்... துலங்கின.... கண்ணை உறுத்தும் வகையிலே திருதிருவென்று.

அத்தகைய தனித்தன்மை வாய்ந்த தலைப்பு-எழுத்து வகைகளை... நாம் தமிழில் பயன் படுத்தினால்.... ஏனைய எழுத்துக்களை காட்டிலும் ஆ, ஊ, ஈ, ஏ, ஓ, ற, ள போன்ற எழுத்துக்களை மட்டும்

அழுத்தம் காட்டுவது தேவையா.?...

...இம்முறை நம் கண்ணை உறுத்தவில்லையா.?.

இம்முறையிலே மேலும் ஒரு பிரச்சினை எழுகிறது.. தமிழின் தனித்தன்மைக்கு ஒவ்வாத இடையூறு.!... ஏற்கனவே கூறியதை மீண்டும் நினைவு கொள்வோம்.

ஆங்கிலம் தவிர... உலகின் முக்கிய மொழிகளின் உச்சரிப்பு அதன் ஒவ்வொரு எழுத்திலேயே துவங்கி விடுகிறது... Letter-based PRONUJNCIATION and PHONETICS

மாறாக தமிழ்-மொழி மட்டுமே அவ்வந்த இடத்திற்கு ஏற்ப.. ஒரே எழுத்தின் உச்சரிப்பு மாறும்... இந்த நிலை ஆங்கில-மொழிக்கும் உண்டு என்றாலும்... ஆங்கிலத்தில் ஒரு நெறிபட்ட உச்சரிப்பு

(Standard Pronunciation) கிடையாது...

உதாரணமாக.. ...PUT - BUT... ... WAS - GAS.... ... GEORGE - GORGE... ... CITE - SITE... ... CHORUS - CORE... .

ஆனால் தமிழில் குழப்பம்-இல்லா வகையிலே முரண்பாடு ஏதும் இன்றி... ஒரு சிறுவன் கூட எளிதாக புரிந்து கொள்ள முடியும்.

தவிர, ஆங்கில மொழி போல... "கேள்விக்கு அப்பாற்பட்ட விதி (Unquestionable Thumb-Rule) ஏதும் கிடையாது.

அதாவது... தமிழிலே ஒரே எழுத்துக்கு பல உச்சரிப்புகள் உண்டு.. ஒரு குறிப்பிட்ட நெறிப்படி.

அதாவது க என்னும் ஒரே எழுத்து... KA, GA, HA என்னும் வகையிலே வேறுபடும்.. இடத்திற்கு தக்கபடி....

எப்படி என்னும் விளக்கம் இங்கு முன்னமேயே கண்டோம்...

உதாரணமாக... கங்ககம் = KANGAHAM என உச்சரிப்பு கொள்கிறது... ஒரே எழுத்து "க"... KA , GA, HA... என்னும் வகையிலே வேறுபடுகிறது.

தமிழுக்கு மட்டுமே உண்டான இத்தகைய தனித்தன்மை இந்த திருதிரு எழுத்தாக்க முறையிலே கருத்தில் கொள்ளப்படவில்லை.. எனவே குழப்பமே மேலிடுகிறது" என்பதே தமிழ்ச்சங்க வல்லுனர்களின்

குற்றச்சாட்டு.

ஆகவே தமிழ்-மொழிக்கு முற்றிலும் ஏற்ற எழுத்தாக்க முறை... மதுரை தமிழ்ச்சங்கத்தார் வகுத்துள்ள மேற்கண்ட நமது முறையே.!



இம்முறையில், TH=த ; அப்படியானால், ( T = ? t = ?) என்றும் அறிந்துகொள்ளலாமா? ்
tks.

ta = ட..... tha = த.... "T" போன்ற தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களே... நமது எழுத்தாக்க- முறையிலே பயன்பாட்டில் கிடையாது.

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பொறுமையுடன் பதில் அளித்த தங்களுக்கு என் நன்றி.

தற்போதுள்ள தலைப்பை பிழை என்று கருதத் தேவையில்லை. அது அப்படி அமைந்த நல்ல நேரத்தினால், திரிதான் ஓகோ என்று ஓடிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறதே!

[sar]

உதாரணமாக ஒரு வாக்கியம்:---.... "ஓடி வந்த கள்ளழகரிடம்... ராஜாராமன் ஏக்கத்துடன் சொன்னார்... "கற்றது கை-மண் அளவே" என்று.

New Style:--- Odi vantha kaLLazakaritam... rAjArAman, Ekkathutan sonnAr... "kaRRathu kai-maN aLavE"... enRu.

Traditional Tamil-Sangam Style:--- Oadi vandha Kalhlhazhaharidam... Raajaaraaman yaekkaththudan sonnaar... "katradhu Kai-manh Alhavae" yenrhu.

வட-இந்திய மொழிகளில்... தலை, தளை, தழை.. போன்ற சொற்கள் கிடையா.. எல்லாம் ஒரே உச்சரிப்பு தான் "தலை" என்று மட்டுமே.

ஆனால் தமிழில்... வலிக்கும், வளிக்கும், வழிக்கும் பெருத்த வித்தியாசம் உள்ளது.... மேலும் ... கொல்லை-கொள்ளை,...குளம்பு-குழம்பு... வலம்-வளம்...

எனவே தான்... தமிழ்-மொழிக்கு சிறப்பு- தேவைகளான... "ழ" = "ZHA"... ... "ற" = RHA .... "ள" = LHA.... என்று நெறி வகுக்கப்பட்டது.

bis_mala wrote:



தலைப்பு THIRUK-KURHALH. என்றில்லாமல், THIRUKKURALH என்றே போடப்பட்டுள்ளது, அதாவது, ரகர றகர வேறுபாடு போற்றப்படவில்லை என்று கூறுவது சரி எனலாமா?

இம்முறையில், TH=த ; அப்படியானால், ( T = ? t = ?) என்றும் அறிந்துகொள்ளலாமா? ்
tks.


ta = ட..... tha = த.... "T" போன்ற தலைப்பு எழுத்துக்களே... நமது எழுத்தாக்க- முறையிலே பயன்பாட்டில் கிடையாது.



ஆனாலும் வேறுபடுத்த 'h' சேர்த்துக் கொள்வது ல, ள, ர, ற போன்றவற்றிற்கு பயன்பாட்டிற்கு ஒத்து வந்தாலும், குறிப்பாய், 'த', 'ட', வல்லின எழுத்துக்களில் (எடுத்துக்காட்டியது போல) குழப்பம் தான் உள்ளது.

'ta', 'tha', இரண்டுமே 'த' என்பதைக் குறிக்கப் பயன் படுகிறது.

ஹிந்தி மொழியில் முதலில் வரும் 'த' என்பதை 'ta' எனவும் இரண்டாவது வரும் 'த' என்பதை 'tha' என்றும் பயன் படுத்தப் பட்டு வருகின்றது.

மற்றும் தமிழிலும் சரி வேறு வட மொழிகளிலும் சரி 'ட' என்னும் எழுத்தினம் 't with bottom dot' என்பதே சரியான எழுது முறை என்கிற ரீதியில் நடைமுறை இருந்து வருவது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது. (அதாவது இலத்தீன் கிரேக்கம் போன்ற மொழி உச்சரிப்பு முறையைப் பின்பற்றி...

மேலும், 'கற்று' என்பது 'karhrhu' என்று வர வேண்டுமா அல்லது 'katru' என்று வர வேண்டுமா என்ற கேள்வியும் மிஞ்சுகிறது... பிரபல எழுத்துரு மாற்றிகளில் (type pad converters) 'katru', 'maatru' போன்றவைகளே சரியான வேண்டப்படும் வார்த்தைகளை தர கூடியதாய் உள்ளது என்பதும் கவனிக்கத் தக்கது...

இவற்றையும் சற்று நோக்குக....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3klgWy_hIYg/RjqWCk3cX8I/AAAAAAAAADU/e3JNFsM0FLI/s400/writing_hindi1.gif

http://www.ancientscripts.com/images/tamil.gif

சரியான ஒழுங்கு முறை 'uniformity in conversion letter code' இன்னும் வகுக்கப் பட வேண்டியுள்ளது... என்றே எண்ணுகிறேன்... குறைந்தபட்சமாய் அப்படித்தான் எண்ணத் தோன்றுகிறது...

[Sudhaama]

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Tamil... ONLY LANGUAGE... in World.. exhibiting GENTLEMANLY HUMBLENESS..


..in the NAME itself.!


...just by means of... ONLY ONE LETTER- "N"




Yes. Tamil Language inculcates a high HUMAN CULTURE of NON-BOASTING Humbleness....

..called THANNADAKKAM in Tamil.

So to mean... the God's Names adopted for Man, is FAR CONTRARY in Tamil, when compared to all others in the World.

For example.. Mostly, No difference is shown by Non-Tamilians... between the holy names of God or their Great Apostle messengers...

--- while naming their children as JESUS, JOHN, ALEXANDER, RAHMAN, AKBAR, KRISHNA, SUBRAHMANYA, RAMA, RAM, BHASKAR, HARIHARA, ESWARA etc...

Whereas Tamilians used to show the difference between the Gods' names and Human names

...such as MURUHA - MURUHAN... RAMA / RAMAR - RAMAN... KRISHNA / KRISHNAR - KRISHNAN--- HARIHARA- HARIHARAN --- ESWARA- ESWARAN ---SUBRAHANYA- SUBRAHMANYAN / SUBRAHMANYAM etc.

But while addressing them, Tamilians do not address them so...

-- true to their Names---

-- but as MURUHA, KRISHNA, RAMA, ESWARA, SUBRAHMANYA... etc.

..eliminating the Tail-Letter N ... Which makes the sense of the word with "N" as the... GOD'S SERVANT

And if it is without N... it means God's Name

Rather one can DEEM and call himself low.. before the Society... but the others should not treat them by the same sense of SELF-DENIGRATION.

Thus the purpose of adopting God's names to Humans... is also implemented.. by chanting the Gods name hidden behind.

So to mean-- Hindus as much as others-- auto remind themselves on God, during every moment and action

Most of theNon-Tamilians used to name as HARIDAS, RAMADAS, ALLAH-PICHAI, KRISHNA-PRASAD.etc

...which Concept means one and the same sense as the God given Alm, Gift or Prasad...

...for Self introduction as well as for Others addressing the person concerned..

Whereas in Tamil, the difference is shown between the Self and Others usages.

Such difference shown by just by ONE LETTER... N... in Tamil followed by Malayalam--- is a THOUGHT-PROVOKING Phenomenon on Human-Values.

One of the Tamil Gospels Thirukkuralh insists...as.. the rudimentary Human-culture of Gentleman's calibre...

...constantly REMINDING the Self-realisation of God in every word and action by imbued sense.

அடக்கம் அமரருள் உய்க்கும் {Adakkam Amararulh uykkum)

..

[Sudhaama]

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Every Language has something FUNNY.!

... by Others YARDSTICK... and Outlook.! ...


.. Tamil too... NOT AN EXCEPTION. !



Some of the Non Tamilians used to ask me some Questions which appeared Funny in Tamil for them...

...while such facts are interesting for we Tamilians too.!


One Hindiwala asked me...

"How You Tamilians differentiate between வாய்க்கால் (Vaaykaal) and கால்வாய் (Kaalvaay).

Even after repeated reminders and corrections.. I often wrongly use the words.

May I know on what basis you differentiate.?"

I replied KAALVAAY means CANAL in English...

...while VAAYKAAL means CHANNEL in English.

He laughed and asked... Is it Not FUNNY in your Language Tamil.?

There is NOTHING FUNNY in it. Every Language some such usages. I can quote ample Examples from your Mother-Tongue in Hindi ...

...as well as the so called International Language English too.

For example take the same case here.

What much difference it makes in English... between the words CANAL and CHANNEL.

Still you are not mistakig in identification. Is it Not.?

He blinked.

Then I clarified the Tamil uniqueness.

In Tamil...

VAAY means MOUTH .... KAAL = SECTION / BRANCH

Thus the Main Branch-off from a River or Reservoir is meant by KAALVAAY (Canal)

...and again further Branchiing off the KAALVAAY (Canal)...

...is practically a SUB-CANAL... So it is another ENTRY SUB-BRANCH..... meant by the word VAAY-KAAL.

(2) Then one Telugu Man asked me another Question...

How is it you Tamilians are using the words in Tamil...

...as KATHIRI-KOAL. கத்திரிக்கோல்... for Scissors..

...and KATHIRI-KAAY... கத்திரிக்காய்... for a Vegetable Brinjal. ?

What connection is there between these words... to justify the link by KATHIRI.?

Dear Friends,

What is your Answer please.?

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[Sudhaama]

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- At PAR with Tamil...

- Telugu too. !.... Another CLASSICAL Language.?

http://www.dinamalar.com/Political_detail.asp?news_id=17278

What is meant by Classical Language.?

Any Language of INDEPENDANT ORIGIN.. without offtaking from another Language is called CLASSICAL Language. (செம்மொழி)

Without politicizing the Issue...

...OPEN-MINDEDLY... if we analyse the matter we can know how far... ANY OTHER INDIAN LANGUAGE... is Qualified to be named as Classical...

..except Sanskrit.

Till recently most of the Indian Linguists were claiming that all the Indian Languages have originated from Sanskrit...

...which statement was accepted by all others including Telugu Scholars...

...except Tamil-scholars in case of Tamil alone.

Yes. Amongst all the Indian Languages, TAMIL ONLY... has not originated from any other Language...

...but of INDEPENDANT CLASSICAL VALUE... for Tamil... amongst World-Languages too...

...at par with similar Classical Languages of the World like... Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Arab, Sanskrit etc.

What is the Proof.?

EXCEPT TAMIL...but in cases of all other Indian Languages... including Hindi and Telugu...

...the more we ADD SANSKRIT WORDS... it is valued as Rich Classical usage...

..so to mean... more we add Sanskrit in Telugu... it is considered as the RICH TELUGU Poem or Prose..

Similar case to all other Indian Languages too.!

Whereas in case of Tamil only amongst Indian Languages... it is the OPPOSITE condition.

Yes. The more we avoid Sanskrit words... it is valued as the RICH TAMIL-- SENTHAMIZH (செந்தமிழ்) / Classical Tamil.

Thus no other Indian Language will be able to exist... without admixing Sanskrit words...

...except Tamil.

Tamil is the only Language in India... where we do not have Three sorts of Phonetics for each Consonant like KA CHA, TA, THA, PA.. etc.

Even a Thyagaraja Lyric comprising of 90% Sanskrit words...

...is considered as Telugu only... RATHER A RICH TELUGU by Standard.

Same case for all other Indian Languages

Whereas any Tamil Lyric / Prose / Dialogue... comprising of least Sanskrit words ...

..only can be valued as RICH TAMIL... of Classical Value.!

Then how Tamil and Telugu... are classified... under one and the same Segment...

...AT PAR... AS CLASSICAL.?

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[Sudhaama]

[tscii]

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TAMIL is the FIRST Language of India.!


--as also the FOREMOST in World.!!!



--Says One French Historian, which multi-faceted Truth was endorsed by an American multi-scholar Dr. David Kaylor,

--who took zealous interest in Tamil language and learnt it to a scholarly level—

-- such that he could write an Analytical Treatise on Tamil-Veda THIRUVAAYMOZHI -- and also extol that


--TAMIL-VEDA, THIRUVAAYMOZHI

--as the Most Exemplary Gospel--

-- of HUMAN-VALUES.!


In support of such a stand on the Greatness of Tamil Language, I had a MIRACULOUS EXPERIENCE—

--INCREDIBLE—but TRUE ! – Yes, My Personal Experience, about 50 years back


In a village near Nagpur India, my friends took me to a Sadhu baba Maharashtrian Brahmin, who was said to be a very rare person endowed with a high standard of Spiritual powers ESP (Extra Sensory Powers)--

--especially a THOUGHT-READER who could be possessed by the Holy Spirit of Sri Sant Tukaram and narrate His words in reply to our Questions on Life.

When I came in front of him, he opened his closed eyes and just smiled at me silently— raising one hand up, in a blessing gesture. Then closed his eyes on meditation.

My friends whispered to me, “Oh You are lucky.! He rarely permits anybody and he has invited you with blessings. It is a good sign to mean that he is prepared to answer to your questions.”

As already guided by my Friends earlier— I prostrated at him and sat in front silently.

With closed eyes, he started talking to me in Hindi. (He knew only two Languages, Marathi and Hindi. I was well-conversant with Hindi too.)

“Your name is ------- (Said Correctly) --- You are a person of SARASWATHI-BASHA .

--You have come here for ---- purpose. Now You have come to me to get answers on Life Questions---- and so on-- he was uttering one after another amazing statements of Truth past and present, on my personal Life unknown to anybody else as Mankind.


Then I asked “What is meant by SARASWATHI-BASHA.?”

He replied “Your Language TAMIL is SARASWATHI-BASHA, created by Vishnu and taught by Him to Saraswathi devi--


--who subsequently taught it to the Earthly Mankind then at Prayag (Allahabad), several Thousands of years back---

--- as the First Language of the World.


Sanskrit is a BRAHMA-BASHA which too was created by lord Vishnu and taught to Brahma who propogated it on Earth through Maha-Rishis (Sages) by Vedic Gospel

--but such an exclusive language Sanskrit was introduced to Earthly Mankind subsequently,

--Only as a SECOND LANGUAGE after Tamil, the Saraswathi-Basha, the first Conversational Language in the world for the Common public--

Since taught by Brahma, the Language Sanskrit is called Brahma-Basha.


Why named Saraswathi-Basha?


Not only because the Guru for teaching Tamil to the Mankind was Saraswathi-devi,

---but also because every time, Saraswathi-devi used to emerge out of Saraswathi-River at Prayag--- Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswathi Tri- Rivers Junction,


---Stranger people too called Your Language Tamil--- as SARASWATHI-BASHA” Said Sadhu-Baba to me in person.

I could believe it by linking with Frenchman’s History on the Origin of Tamil Language ---

---further coupled with another narration of Hearsay on the Tamil Saint AUVAIYAR’s Super-human Biography.!!!


Yes Tamil is the SARASWATHI-BASHA.!!!


.I believe it--- whether Others believe so, Or Not.!

.

[Sudhaama]

.
.


SARASWATHI-DEVI's Awathara (Incarnation.) ! ---


Guru-devi AUVAIYAR was born THRICE in India.!!!





[tscii]

.

TAMIL is the FIRST Language of India.!


--as also the FOREMOST in World.!!!



--Says One French Historian, which multi-faceted Truth was endorsed by an American multi-scholar Dr. David Kaylor,

--who took zealous interest in Tamil language and learnt it to a scholarly level—

-- such that he could write an Analytical Treatise on Tamil-Veda THIRUVAAYMOZHI -- and also extol that


--TAMIL-VEDA, THIRUVAAYMOZHI

--as the Most Exemplary Gospel--

-- of HUMAN-VALUES.!


In support of such a stand on the Greatness of Tamil Language, I had a MIRACULOUS EXPERIENCE—

--INCREDIBLE—but TRUE ! – Yes, My Personal Experience, about 50 years back


In a village near Nagpur India, my friends took me to a Sadhu baba Maharashtrian Brahmin, who was said to be a very rare person endowed with a high standard of Spiritual powers ESP (Extra Sensory Powers)--

--especially a THOUGHT-READER who could be possessed by the Holy Spirit of Sri Sant Tukaram and narrate His words in reply to our Questions on Life.

When I came in front of him, he opened his closed eyes and just smiled at me silently— raising one hand up, in a blessing gesture. Then closed his eyes on meditation.

My friends whispered to me, “Oh You are lucky.! He rarely permits anybody and he has invited you with blessings. It is a good sign to mean that he is prepared to answer to your questions.”

As already guided by my Friends earlier— I prostrated at him and sat in front silently.

With closed eyes, he started talking to me in Hindi. (He knew only two Languages, Marathi and Hindi. I was well-conversant with Hindi too.)

“Your name is ------- (Said Correctly) --- You are a person of SARASWATHI-BASHA .

--You have come here for ---- purpose. Now You have come to me to get answers on Life Questions---- and so on-- he was uttering one after another amazing statements of Truth past and present, on my personal Life unknown to anybody else as Mankind.


Then I asked “What is meant by SARASWATHI-BASHA.?”

He replied “Your Language TAMIL is SARASWATHI-BASHA, created by Vishnu and taught by Him to Saraswathi devi--


--who subsequently taught it to the Earthly Mankind then at Prayag (Allahabad), several Thousands of years back---

--- as the First Language of the World.


Sanskrit is a BRAHMA-BASHA which too was created by lord Vishnu and taught to Brahma who propogated it on Earth through Maha-Rishis (Sages) by Vedic Gospel

--but such an exclusive language Sanskrit was introduced to Earthly Mankind subsequently,

--Only as a SECOND LANGUAGE after Tamil, the Saraswathi-Basha, the first Conversational Language in the world for the Common public--

Since taught by Brahma, the Language Sanskrit is called Brahma-Basha.


Why named Saraswathi-Basha?


Not only because the Guru for teaching Tamil to the Mankind was Saraswathi-devi,

---but also because every time, Saraswathi-devi used to emerge out of Saraswathi-River at Prayag--- Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswathi Tri- Rivers Junction,


---Stranger people too called Your Language Tamil--- as SARASWATHI-BASHA” Said Sadhu-Baba to me in person.

I could believe it by linking with Frenchman’s History on the Origin of Tamil Language ---

---further coupled with another narration of Hearsay on the Tamil Saint AUVAIYAR’s Super-human Biography.!!!


Yes Tamil is the SARASWATHI-BASHA.!!!


.I believe it--- whether Others believe so, Or Not.!

.


One Indian Historian says that the Tamil Saint Auvaiyar is the Awathara of Saraswathi-devi--

--thrice on Earth just to propogate Tamil as well as for inducing SELF-REALISATION by the Mankind on the Greatness of Humanity...

---the RAREST and Supreme BIRTH ON EARTH---

-- created and endowed as the One and the only creature born to ENJOY Earth as Paradise

According to that History writen by an Indian--- (but disputed by other Historians)

--Auvaiyar was always an Ayonija (Not born from any Womb) but appeared as Mankind---

--- first at Prayag (Allahabad} during the first Yuga (Kritha/ Sathya-yuga)--

--and secondly at Kanyakumari region of Tamil Chera-Naadu--

--and lastly at Koothanoor in Thanjavoor District of Tamil Chozha-nadu.!!!


We are unable to either easily believe, accept nor refute it---

--- since entangled with several hitches, confusions and incredible mysteries--- for Pro and Anti--

--- Yet to be unravelled by Mankind on the IMMORTAL Auvaiyar-

-- our Great Tamil veteran Connoisseur of HUMAN-VALUES for Mankind.!!!

--through TAMIL-- the FIRST LANGUAGE for Humanity.!

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