Is this true Spirituality?

[Alan]

Well, this is regarding a certain relative of mine( my uncle's wife's sister to be precise). Well, She & her husband run a multi-crore Company where they manufacture artificial limbs, pace-makers & other bio ceramics. Its a flourishing business and they are really stinking rich.

Now to the point:- They became 'spiritual' or so they claim a decade ago- they all turned vegetarian and started conducting lots of 'poojas' in their home and everything. Last year, they built a multi-crore Shiva Temple Complex. Every morning in their home starts with a Ganesh Pooja and all. And God is really blessing them in every possible way.
They were very particular they want only an IIT-IIM groom for their eldest daughter & got one. And all that wish come true.

Now the thing is if u r truly spiritual, will you judge others on their money? I don't think so. They look down upon everyone who aren't upto their 'level'. And also mock ppl on other petty things. So the question is are they really 'spiritual' as they claim? If they still treat their fellow beings like this, why is God still helping them out so much?

When I read the Gita, what I felt was a oneness with the Universe and could not even think of the differences in terms of education, wealth, caste or creed between me & someone else. I also felt a total renouncement for material things. . Am I weird or them?

[Hulkster]

One thing is that whatever that we are involved physicall or verbally is totally our effort..so regardless of the outcome it has nothing to do with GOD.

I dunt see spiritualism here..it is more of desperation that GOD will help them and now it is their "belief" that GOD is on their side that is turning them into such "superior" individuals.

GOD is not helping them...in fact even if they do good or do evil it is totally their own effort and what rises out of there is also due to what they did...one thing we have to understand is that GOD only helps us when things are way beyond human comprehension...other than that its all ours through and through.

As for the GITA...If your someone who is moved by spirituality high chances that the GITA will affect you as it is very spiritually dominated. So its not weird or anything it is totally normal. To me it does not affect as i have a totally different perspective of life(neither spiritualism or religion). Remember that you can pray to GOD for wellbeing but whatever things you do and what comes out of it are your own doing and nobody else...hope you grasp the point :D

[Braandan]

The 'spiritual' label just enhances their egos. That is all. It is useful to them and their business and also to give them a high status in the community in which they move.

A real spiritual person would never label himself/herself as 'spiritual'.

[Alan]

Exactly, I know, Braandan..........but when they get all that they desire, one wonders if even the Gods are scared of them! lol!

[malsi]

Its not that God is scared of them..it could be a mere coincident that they get whatever they wish for..but only they will know the truth if they are actually getting what they want..and that they are happy with what they have..

I always beleive that God is fair to everyone..he gives something..and take something in return..

But that doesnt mean we should not work for what we want..of course..we should work hard..and strive if we want something in our lives..but above that..it is God that decides...

[Surya]

A true spiritual person wouldn't look down upon someone who is lesser then them in terms of wealth/looks/education/caste etc etc

I would say that they aren't spititual...but religious.

There is a difference between being spiritual and religious..espicially in a vast religion like Hinduism.

To me..being spiritual would be following the core beliefs of Hinduism which is what is said in the gita, as u said alan:

"a oneness with the Universe and could not even think of the differences in terms of education, wealth, caste or creed between me & someone else."

Where as being religous I guess would be being devoted to a god, or a group of gods alone, and not other aspects of the religion. Which is why they built this awesome temple and all the poojas etc.

Nothing wrong with being religious..infact building a temple is something that should be appreciated. :D :clap:

As for them making so much money....Some might disagree with me here, but I think it's their fate...it is just in their fate that they will be rich, and make so much money. Ofcourse their hard work also plays a big role. :D


I wouldn't say that either of u are wierd! :lol:

Ur just different kinds of ppl who look for different things in hinduism, or possible any religion for that matter. :D

[Alan]

See, its not the question of making money but the question of looking down upon others who haven't made like them.

Once they came to our hse - we had just redone our showcase , the varnish hadn't dried fully yet and hadn't flled it in with the curios. She was alike, "At least why don't u keep some brassware in it?"

Probably, she thought we were too poor to buy crystal or glassware and hence the suggestion....... :roll:

[Alan]

Would a truly 'Spiritual' person insist on an IIT-IIM son-in-law? (Their true intentions were revealed later- they wanted the son-in-law to come down from the States & take over their Co as they have no sons themselves)
I mean, a truly Spiritual person would be ready to accept anything God has stored for them, right?

[Surya]

Would a truly 'Spiritual' person insist on an IIT-IIM son-in-law? (Their true intentions were revealed later- they wanted the son-in-law to come down from the States & take over their Co as they have no sons themselves)
I mean, a truly Spiritual person would be ready to accept anything God has stored for them, right?

Well...I'm not sure abt that. They might be spiritual, but their daughter might not. They just want their daughter to have the best I guess. I do think that a truely spiritual person would still want the best for their daughter. :)

But from the stuff u've said abt them, they don't seem spiritual at all to begin with. :P

[Braandan]

Again these are just labels people give to each other or to themselves. We try to classify others and outselves into some groups and devise laws and rules for each classification, and point finger at each other when members of the group do not adhere to the laws. Whether they call themselves by a label and act like people of a different label does not matter in the long run.

[Badri]

Hmm, this thread makes me wonder, Who will judge the judgers? :huh:

[Shakthiprabha.]

alan,

my personal thoughts...


I also felt a total renouncement for material things.

Not necessary.

u can POSSESS material things, still be DETACHED BOUT IT.

Desiring something is not a sin. If the desire does not happen, then HOW WE TAKE or accept the reality decides how practical/spritual one is.

'Rama' had every material things to enjoy. Yet when he was asked to go to the forest, he went WITH THE SAME SMILE which he wore, when he was announced as the KING.

Tht is being spiritual.

Desiring or WANTING iit/iim is not a prob. If not given the same, DO THEY TAKE IT WITH SAME EASE. That decides who they are.

Finally, NOBODY can judge anybody as to HOW RELIGIOUS OR SPIRITUAL they are.

Its all too sublte to realise for fellow human beings.

Rakshasas or demonic ppl, were the CRUELEST amongst the living beings. Yet, when they renounced ego, THEY WERE THE FIRST PPL TO REACH GOD, before normal human beings.

so, DONT JUDGE :)

[crazy]

"God's in His Heaven
All's right with the World! :roll: :)

[Alan]

I understand what you are trying to say, SP akka- but for me, I did not feel the need to buy unnecessary material stuff - I don't know, may be I was going towards the other extreme!!!

Well, regarding the iit/iim thing, what I was trying to say is a truly Spiritual person has no 'desires' whatsoever.
{No Surya, even the daughter is supposed to be 'spiritual' though she dresses like a whore, to her own co, which is quite disgusting, so I'am told)

My cousin sis & this eldest daughter got married around the same time, in April 2003- and this woman told everyone that their daughter& bil are 'family planning" until 2006. But kept asking my cousin why she wasn't conceiving and kept advising her to go to the temples & places of worship..

The way She advises is with an air of authority, "Haven't you heard of so-so place?". The place of worship in question could be even the most famous in India and even a 2 yr old would know the location of the same yet she'll speak as if only her family knows about the same.

Fed up of this woman, my cousin & her family avoids her all the time.

[dev]

Hmm, this thread makes me wonder, Who will judge the judgers? :huh:

:)

[Hulkster]

Alan..:notthatway:

Perhaps they may be using the name of GOD as a hiding to their success which had nothing to do with GOD and their actions,behaviour are totally related to them. So it is fairly obvious that there is no spiritualism there.

Let us not turn this a thread to degrade people who are using spiritualism as a word to cover up their successes and character...this people must be advised from the way they behave and character rather than mentioning why your degrading spiritualism..:exactly:

[Alan]

ok, hulkster, I understand. This is my last post regarding this issue.

Just one last question: Now everyone admits that these ppl are 'religious' not spiritual- So, if u r just religious, is it enough for you to get all that you want and be blessed and keep ur family free from diseases & tragedies?

In the Bhagwad Gita, Lord Krishna mentions that one who thinks of me all the time wil get a much better life in his next birth . So, they are getting a wonderful life now itself, in this birth, because they always 'pray'?

I don't care about their wealth but irritates me is that the women in this family keeps advising the others to be as fashionable as them. As I mentioned earlier, my cousin sis & this girl got married around the same time. So just after my cousin's engagement, this girl started advising her to give up her long sleeved salwaar, wear modern & fashionable clothes, leave her open & all. I mean, come on, man, who is to give fashionable tips ? Or is fashion a form of 'so called spirituality' for them?

[Hulkster]

Their life is defined by them only..GOD has nothing to do with them..what we reap comes from what we do....for example if i succeed in my final year exams..it is due to my hard work..nothing to do with GOD..same goes for them.

As for their advises and their lifestyle..it is all totally their own mindset and opinion...nothing to do with spiritualism as well :exactly:

[Hulkster]

As for bhagavad gita....it is not really a accurate example to use to explain their success as scientists especially those who believe in what they see are very successful without thinking of GOD...:exactly:

[blahblah]

This story is nothing new to me! I have seen real rogues who take advantage of unworthy ignorant stupid pigs again and again.These men-and women-make money however they can and all of a sudden become religious!

Personally,I am becoming an atheist, and that is making me a better person-or that is what I feel. No more do I pledge allegiance to any religious faith or community. I would respect any person who spends his money for people who do not belong to his community or caste.

I know a lot of people who belong to the 'believer's church'[As though nobodyelse believes in anything]. Watch out for such a boss-they read only parts of Bible,which they want to. They treat their subordinates as slaves and truly believe that they are entitled to it! And they claim all the loot are god's blessings!

I am not a religious person at all,but if my wife finds Rs.10 in my pocket,she is so sure that it doesn't belong to somebodyelse.

What Alan has written about has become a habit-make money by any means,later justify it by your allegiance to a certain religion!

[Alan]

But blah-blah, whatever we say, they seem to have EVERYTHING in life without any disappointment!

I had mentioned earlier about how this woman went around telling everyone that her daughter & Son-in-law are planning until 2006 and all that, probably to defend any questions. But as their luck would have it, she's had a baby boy recently wheras my cousin hasn't conceived yet...........so is it because they are too religious?

[Rohit]

[tscii:64b8d7a4a0]Richard Branson, best known for his Virgin brand, is worth over £3 billion (equivalent to nearly US$6 billion); and he is an atheist.

Bill Gates, the Microsoft CEO, the richest man on earth, is a non-believer.

There are millions who are very rich or enough rich and happy people who are non-believers.

I know it with 100% certainty that there is no God or any Supreme Being, variously postulated by various religions of the world. This makes me a strict non-beliver and non-religious. I lead my life on a very high standard of moral principles. I am well off and happy with my life.

However, there are billions of highly religious people who are very poor and unhappy in their lives.

Therefore; there is no correlation, none whatsoever, between being religious or spiritual and being wealthy and/or happy. If anything, the converse is true; that is, there is a strong correlation between being non-religious or atheist and being intelligent, wealthy and/or happy.

:D :) :thumbsup:[/tscii:64b8d7a4a0]

[Rohit]

Just a probing question to all those who are believers!

Can any believer please come forward and spell out the difference between being religious and being spiritual? In other words, can any believer here render the precise definitions of religion and spirituality; and then, explain the common and uncommon or contrasting features between the two notions?

Only then it is reasonable to raise and answer the question, "Is this true Spirituality?" :)

[Surya]

Hmm, this thread makes me wonder, Who will judge the judgers? :huh:

Only god can judge us all. 8-) :P

blahblah,
:omg: this is a surpricing transformation! :D

[Alan]

Rohit, whatever you say, I know more examples of religious ppl who are rich and have no problems at all- They have everyting. I personally know 4 or 5 examples .

[Sanguine Sridhar]

I am not here to argue about God exisistence. Because I dont have age or experience to prove that God exist or I am not half-baked to prove that God does not exist!

Is money is the ultimate and primary thing which you expect from the God?

Richard Branson,Bill Gates are happy? Just because they are rich? How do you know!? :lol2:

Rohit, you are happy so far thats good. I like to hear the same comment from you after 40,50 years. Experience teach you something!!? In this 40-50 years gap if you don feel(There is a difference between feeling and seeing) God, then..... You are the God! 8-) Am not kidding here!

How do you want to see God? In what form you want to see? If you can see the Almighty..then so called Almighty is not the Almighty...!

Rohit I will ask you to search God in everything you see in this world before coming to a conclusion!! All the very best

[Badri]

I hope this doesnt turn into another of those Does God exist threads! We've had so many of them in the Hub already!

Anyway, why should God's existence or the lack of it have anything to do with money? For every rich atheist, you can find a rich theist and for every poor believer, you can find an equally poor and miserable non-believer!

I, for one, do not think this question can be settled by statistics, one way or the other!

So why bother? If you want to believe in God, go ahead and believe. See if it gets you rich or happy or poor or miserable. If you dont want to believe, well, you are free not to and still see if you get rich or happy or poor or miserable!

Nothing convinces one as much as a personal experiment would! :)

[Alan]

As for bhagavad gita....it is not really a accurate example to use to explain their success as scientists especially those who believe in what they see are very successful without thinking of GOD...:exactly:


Well, despite being a non-Hindu, I strongly believe that the Gita is more of a modern day Hand book- more modern than the Bible or the Quran.

The most amazing thing about the Gita is that it still has contemporary relevance, despite its age :D

[Alan]

I hope this doesnt turn into another of those Does God exist threads! We've had so many of them in the Hub already!

Anyway, why should God's existence or the lack of it have anything to do with money? For every rich atheist, you can find a rich theist and for every poor believer, you can find an equally poor and miserable non-believer!

I, for one, do not think this question can be settled by statistics, one way or the other!

So why bother? If you want to believe in God, go ahead and believe. See if it gets you rich or happy or poor or miserable. If you dont want to believe, well, you are free not to and still see if you get rich or happy or poor or miserable!

Nothing convinces one as much as a personal experiment would! :)

No, that wasn't my idea when I started this thread........... :?

[dsath]

I, for one, do not think this question can be settled by statistics, one way or the other!

So why bother? If you want to believe in God, go ahead and believe. See if it gets you rich or happy or poor or miserable. If you dont want to believe, well, you are free not to and still see if you get rich or happy or poor or miserable!

Nothing convinces one as much as a personal experiment would! :)
Exactly !!!!

[Designer]

I hope this doesnt turn into another of those Does God exist threads! We've had so many of them in the Hub already!

Anyway, why should God's existence or the lack of it have anything to do with money? For every rich atheist, you can find a rich theist and for every poor believer, you can find an equally poor and miserable non-believer!

I, for one, do not think this question can be settled by statistics, one way or the other!

So why bother? If you want to believe in God, go ahead and believe. See if it gets you rich or happy or poor or miserable. If you dont want to believe, well, you are free not to and still see if you get rich or happy or poor or miserable!

Nothing convinces one as much as a personal experiment would! :)

Hi all :)

Badri : Very aptly pointed out. IMO, it depends on each individual's perception of the goal or aim of his or her existence. Many of us desire only Material success in life and are happy or unhappy depending on whether we are able to achieve it. Some others view their Religious (or Spiritual) progress as a benchmark of achievement.

I personally know atleast a few instances of persons belonging to the upper strata of society, who were not satisfied with their material success, and wanted something 'more' out of their lives. Some of them could define their inner vacuity as a longing for God or something beyond religion. Some others couldnt put a label to their feeling of lacking something inspite of being rich.

I read somewhere that, "Where Religion ends, Spirituality begins.". I think Religion - no matter which one - is a sort of training ground for Spirituality. It conditions the mind to accept the concept of God and infuses (or rather should infuse) a sort of longing to know more about God and a passionate Love for the Almighty. And if a person reaches that stage, Religion is not necessary for him or her anymore. It doesnt imply that one should renounce the Religion in which one was born into. It's like, after passing the 12th standard / 12th grade in school, a person goes on to study in college. It doesnt mean he or she has 'renounced' school - for without the foundation laid in school, one would not have reached college. Likewise, Religion is the foundation on which one's future Spiritual life may be built.

A relevant post in Hubbers Lounge :

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=8485&start=375



The 'spiritual' label just enhances their egos. That is all. It is useful to them and their business and also to give them a high status in the community in which they move.

A real spiritual person would never label himself/herself as 'spiritual'.

very true!

[Badri]

I hope this doesnt turn into another of those Does God exist threads! We've had so many of them in the Hub already!


No, that wasn't my idea when I started this thread........... :?

I know, that is why I said hope it doesnt turn into. Most threads start with one motive, and end up totally elsewhere! :?

[Rohit]

Hello Sanguine Sridhar,


Is money is the ultimate and primary thing which you expect from the God?
Well, this thread begins with a story of a couple running a multi-crore company; and the subsequent posts mainly narrate how they are getting more affluent and becoming more demanding in their lives. :!: I have just expressed my views only in that context. That's all.


How do you want to see God? In what form you want to see?
Rohit I will ask you to search God in everything you see in this world before coming to a conclusion!! All the very best
How something, whose existence is nothing more than a fantasised creation or imagination of the human mind, can reveal its non-existence to the whole world, anyway?

So, please don't stretch yourself too much and superimpose your subjective judgements based upon such imageries.

Anyway, thank you for your suggestions. :)

[Alan]

No- this doesn't have anything to do money being the supreme - the question was Does God help only the religious(not necessarily the Spiritual)? Are they the ones who get everything in life?

[Hulkster]

Alan...God does not help anybody to be successful or poor...he only helps when we cant really help ourselves or we are totally out of clue....What they achieve is all their own effort...nothing to do with GOD...The incidents you described are nothing but arrogance of their own success...whether their success goes or whether it stays is again their own efforts as well.

There is no such principle that only religious or spiritual get everything in life...if you can define your life and your actions you too can get everything...and again the everything depends on the person's perception as well...:D

[Alan]

I understand, Hulkster- hardwork is directly co-related to sucess, fame and money.Alright. But what about the other things?

How is it that they got an IIT-IIM son-in-law as they desired and this girl got pregnant as soon as they wished she would while my cousin sis is having a lot of problems conceiving- I mean, everything is in their favour. It is not fair!

[Hulkster]

That is due to the circumstances...i am sure ur cousin sis will reach maternity soon..do not bother about what happens with them..that is their own life...as for your cousin sis she has to consult doctor to see if any problems...its just abit of disappointment with some sourness here....i have seen people who think they are getting everything and suddenly go down to a drop..and then they blame/praise god for both events while its all their own doing :D

[Alan]

Thanks for ur wishes, Hulkster.
She & her husband did see an Infertility Specialist and I guess she may have to go for certain assisted reproductive techniques like IUI or IVF soon. Everyone's worried because she's the only daughter of her parents and because she doesn't have own siblings, we are all like her her own .

Yeah, you are rite, I should stop bothering about these ppl. :-)

[Lambretta]

How is it that they got an IIT-IIM son-in-law as they desired
Well, for this one thing I'd say since youth w/ such qualifications r way too common nowadays, whether they r desired or not, I guess they r not difficult to get! :wink: :P :lol: :D

[blahblah]

[quote="Surya
blahblah,
:omg: this is a surpricing transformation! :D[/quote]

More surprising to myself than to you.I never thought I would one day become close to becoming an atheist.To drop the baggage that you are brought up with and to think rationally is very difficult at first.

Being religious is associated with one's social stature and acceptance in the society.That is why we have routine churchgoers who are 'outstanding christians'[they always stand outside the church] :lol: .I remember our local MLA coming once a year to the church and occupy the prime seat.Somehow his visits always happened one week before elections.

A scientific mind which has method and order to assist the thought process,does not need God as a guiding power.Yet an illiterate,insecure mind in chaos, might need the 'will of Providence'-because it has no will of its own.

I am sure we will do better without God-because then there won't be people like those described in this thread.I wonder why they are afraid to call themselves plain businessmen.Look at most our 'Godmen'-rogues who cover up their sin by using what could well be a non existing entity.

[snrajan]

Hmm, this thread makes me wonder, Who will judge the judgers?

[dsath]

No- this doesn't have anything to do money being the supreme - the question was Does God help only the religious(not necessarily the Spiritual)? Are they the ones who get everything in life?
God helps those who help themselves

[snrajan]

God helps those who help themselves

This is what many think, but is it so?

[Braandan]

God helps those who help themselves

This is what many think, but is it so?

Surely, especially at the buffet table!!!

[Badri]

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Braandan, the UG effect is rubbing off on you, is it? :)

[snrajan]

Brandan,
You are too good to be true.

regards,

[snrajan]

Brandan,

U r simply great, u have answer for every thing. I am very intd. to know more about it.
Please continue.

[Alan]

God helps those who help themselves

This is what many think, but is it so?

Surely, especially at the buffet table!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: