Fake (or real!!) Godmen and Messiahs: [Archive]

r_kk

23rd December 2004, 05:49 AM

Even after long years or Periyar’s struggle, still Tamil Nadu remains as the hunting ground for many godmen/messiahs. They are in different form, come from various places (local and foreign), saffron wearing local Godmen or Coat wearing messiahs… Both adopt the same and very similar techniques… They bring a live and interactive God concept more responsive to day to day problems… they say either they had seen God or God is working through them… They say indirectly this is the only way… You can identify them easily by the luxurious way they and their family live, the way the project their generation as next messiahs, the religious business empire they run… They also spent part of their gained wealth as social work (!!!) in order to cover up the crookedness…. They look very kind and nice and no one feel like questioning… Even though Premanda, Sathurvedi and Sai Baba are partly exposed, there are still so many in all religions to cheat the ignorant and so called educated masses… They thread you if you raise any question and tell you that you are nothing in front of them and your knowledge is so poor to understand them… Most of them has large number of dedicated brain washed followers… Most of them do miracle cure and tell they are receiving the words from GOD… I kindly request both believers and non-believers to write here about the fake Godman and preachers, very logically from the available proofs in a rational approach instead of making abusive statements…

Let us start with a local messiah… Pankaru Adigalar…. Even though this issue has been discussed in the forum under another thread,
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The following are taken from one of his propaganda web site…
http://www.sakthipeedam.org/avathar.html

“he used to go to his sister's grave. One day when he was sitting on the grave he felt very thirsty - it is at that time Annai Adhiparasakthi in the form of Uma Maheswari gave the little boy Ganges water, which she produced from her knotted hair and blessed Him with this divine water. By this Annai Adhiparasakthi wanted the world to feel and realise Her incarnation in the form of young Bangaru”

“Above all Adigalar is the incarnation of Annai Adhiparasakthi”

"Yes! Adigalar is the personification of Ambal"

AMMA once in Her oracle said,
" Do not try to analyse me and my ways. They are beyond your intellectual power".

“AMMA is the only solution to all our problems”

" I have taken the incarnation as Adigalar. The body belongs to Adigalar but the soul is mine. I will be HIM and HE will be MYSELF"

From other web site
The basic tenet of Melmaruvathur Adhiparasakthi Siddhar Peetam is "One Mother, One Humanity", means the whole human race is one and all the human beings who inhibit this vast earth are children of Mother Goddess and therefore there is no distinction amongst the human beings on any basis, be it religion, race, creed, community, caste or even gender.

Hearing the Goddess Adhiparasakthi's oracle is a great spiritual experience, this miracle takes place at Siddhar peetam.

See the Chalras by so called educated people….
http://www.omsakthi.org/writings/avatar1.html

In contrast, read the following which has been taken from old thread…
http://forumhub.lunarpages.com/expr/16966.07.18.23.html

“I studied in adhiparasakthi college of engineering and I know ver well about Bangagru adigal. He is a low time crook who used to be a poor school teacher turned up to be a god man over the past few years. He has many shady businesess and many evil activiite. Like Sai Baba he concels everything by throwing a few peanuts of his earnings in charity. I just wonder when people will become rational.God save the innocent who fall in to these so called "God Man".
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There was a big article in Tamil magazine in 1986~87 regarding his one of the illicit act in which he tries to use his magical power to make “vasyam” and the report from witness… Any one knows about that one?

If he is good, then please explain his merits too...

hehehewalrus

23rd December 2004, 06:38 AM

r_kk,
i am the first to vote and i voted that we should expose the frauds. :D
but you have produced only one proof against Bangaru Adigal and what is the certainty that he is genuine? He might be a non-hindu after all...

Shekhar

23rd December 2004, 09:55 AM

Fake Godmen... Are there any other type?

r_kk

23rd December 2004, 01:49 PM

Then about one of the famous Preacher of Tamil Nadu: Broth. D G S Dhinagaran

I had taken the following from the old thread:
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http://forumhub.com/tnhistory/14692.12.05.55.html

Dinakaran claimed in one meeting that Jesus came to him in his bedroom and gave the blue print of kaunya Institute of Technology at Coimbatore ( there the students protested last year opposing the forced conversions and the financial irregularities). In Dinakaran's family itself his wife has become a mass hypnotizing specialist. She claims that Jesus has bestowed her with seven boons (to cure etc).

Paul Dinakaran, son of DGS Dinakaran has also mastered this art nowadays and has roped in his wife Stella and two kids into this 'family business'. Now copying Dinakaran's Style, in every locality there is a protestant preacher who does this kind of 'suvisesha vizhakkal'.

I am not against someone preaching the good teachings of Jesus Christ .But the society has to at least made aware that this is going on .Since mostly the lower strata Tamils are only falling prey to this menace, the elite sections which control media , politics etc are ignoring this epidemic which is fast spreading in Tamilnadu!--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following statement says that he had met Jesus in Physical form.
http://quicksitemaker.com/members/jehovahraphe/DGS.html

He sought God earnestly for 7 years and on October 10, 1962 the Lord Jesus appeared to him personally and spoke to him for three hours. The Lord showed Dr. Dhinakaran how He had recorded everyone of his prayers and that because he had sought Him diligently, He had come personally to bless him. The Lord also told Dr. Dhinakaran that he was His chosen vessel to carry His love and compassion to the broken-hearted people all over the world. His mission was to console millions around the world, and to prove that God cared for them through his message, songs, and prayers.

For me the above he looks more similar to Pangaru Adigalar except the name of the God they were using. Is it correct?

Can any one answer to these questions?
1. Did he say that he met Jesus two times in physical form? (I also read some where in one of his publication). Most of the preachers say like this (the famous Paul Yongi Cho also told that he meet Jesus in the uniform of Fire fighting man.) How far this is reliable? Is it theologically necessary for God to appear in physical form?
2. His movement members say he prays and does fasting on the requests comes from many people? What is the probability of success he has? All are answered or he projects only the few positives (and blame the others as insufficient faith or just ignoring)? Is there any report mentioning his success rate?
3. Does he maintain a very simple life or wealthy life? How much is his present wealth compared to his earlier days? Does he run any business empire other than religious services?
4. Is there any body other than his family leading the topmost positions of his evangelical movement? From the websites I had seen, most of them are led by his family members. Why God bless as family? I have not seen such generation by generation blessed families in other religions!!!
5. Do any one know about his extend of interaction with his predecessor Paul Seer Lauri of Seran Maga Devi (or Tenkasi) or his previous evangelical movement pioneers in Tamil Nadu?
6. Who are the other Foreign Preachers (Benny Hinn is one) associate with his movement and how far they are reliable?
7. If he can do miracle cure, why we need Adayar cancer Institute in Madras where he lives? Is it possible to prove he can cure all or at least more than scientifically acceptable spontaneous remission rate of all cancers (1 in 10,000 and 1 in 100,000 means if you pray on any name (or even don’t pray) for 10,000 cancer patient, then there is a possibility for 1 get sudden cure)? Are these cured people were proven as the only effect of miracle or they were side by side taking conventional treatment (coincidental effect)? Did he ever go to hospital for his own health problem?
8.Are these miracle cure comes under “placebo effect” or “psychogenic in nature (pain, nausea, vomiting, stuttering, stress, partial paralysis)”? Is there any one proved with regeneration of lost body part, for example totally new hand or vision to the completely blind eye at Birth or appearance of new eye?

Please note that this thread is aimed to understand preachers and Godmen from various perspectives. So please avoid any personal hatred or abusive statements.

hehehewalrus

24th December 2004, 12:25 AM

r_kk,
while I certainly appreciate your intent, I am dismayed that you do absolutely ZERO ANALYSIS( I repeat, ZERO ANALYSIS) on the SOURCE of your reports!

You have conveniently ignored my question to you in the second post when I asked about the veracity of the sources.

I have researched in details the case studies produced by you and I really doubt if you have done atleast 5% of the investigations I have done for OVER A DECADE - since all I see you doing is picking some link on the net and posting it. I havent seen a single case where you used non-internet data based on your interaction with the sources concerned. Which suggests to me you may not be serious about an objective evaluation.( I long suspected this when you used a porn site as backup and the other occasion when you dismissed off an MIT Ph.D's findings in less than 30 minutes!)

The internet is a forum for free expression and I will not stop you. All I wish to say is that you are more and more resembling another Ramar Pillai - dubious sources for your claims!

Anyway I have no animosity - I am not keen in burning my fingers for hours on the internet just to disprove one person, you are free to assume whatever you like :D

hehehewalrus

24th December 2004, 12:56 AM

Let me know dissect some easy-to-spot inaccuracies in r_kk's sources and show how reliable they are!

Dinakaran claimed in one meeting that Jesus came to him in his bedroom and gave the blue print of kaunya Institute of Technology at Coimbatore

I dont support starting any engineering college but what if it were true? how many single income middle class families start an engineering college? How come you have kept silent in the "Unexpected" thread where you were unable to explain some of the incidents mentioned by posters about the visions/dreams they had?

there the students protested last year opposing the forced conversions

The incident you quoted happened on September 9 1996. The college was closed down for about two to three months. Now I have several neighbors and friends studying in that college. I know the regionwise distribution of the students there(percentagewise how many telugus, tamils, malayalees,mizo, north indians there).

Now after the college reopened an ad was placed in the Hindu mentioning the list of students barred for damaging college property. What was funny is that over 80% of the student names were Malayalee christians(I have lived all over india and comfortable with multiple cultures/langs, I have friends in pretty much every college in the state in the late 90s - I know all about the student activities in the hostels and any mature person would say that in cases of student-management conflicts, generally 70% of the time students are responsible. We are talking about a private engg college, not IIT)

She claims that Jesus has bestowed her with seven boons (to cure etc).
Very funny :lol: :lol: Seven boons? When did Jesus become a Hindu God? :lol:

Paul Dinakaran, son of DGS Dinakaran has also mastered this art nowadays and has roped in his wife Stella and two kids into this 'family business'.
You should be recruited by the FBI dude. Paul Dinakaran's wife's name is not Stella!!! And his 2 kids were aged 7 and 5 when that article was published. These kids should enter the Guinness book for being hypnotists at ages 7 and 5 :lol: :lol:

So this pretty much sums up the quality of sources r_kk produces.

Since mostly the lower strata Tamils are only falling prey to this menace

Very funny. Have you visited www.sankaranarayanan.org? And what do you mean by lower strata? Most of the SC/ST are strongly opposed to the christian religion since they will lose their reservation benefits, do you know that?

Note: It is not wrong for ANYONE to WISH to do a Ph.D thesis.
But there are certain conditions for that.
1) The basic foundations you use for your study should be reliable.
2) The findings you get at the end of your research should have consistency, have credibility and should be repeatable using various methods.
3) The outcome you get combining Step 1 and Step 2 should be verifiable, logical and repeatable(There shouldnt be even 1% of assumption)

If you fail in any of the above 3 steps, your THESIS is NOT acceptable. Desire alone does not make a Ph.D.

mellon

24th December 2004, 12:57 AM

Fake Godmen... Are there any other type?

That is hilarious, Shekhar! :lol:

BTW, that adjective needs to be erased. The word "Godmen" speaks for itself- how "original" it could ever be :roll:

hehehewalrus

24th December 2004, 01:39 AM

Just a question r_kk. When you investigate some phenomenon or group, how many of their members do you talk to? I assume you might be based in Chennai/Blr or the software belt of india(since I cant see your IP address in this forum)

If you can really produce good sources and are serious about your motives, I can have RELIABLE PEOPLE contact you to clear your doubts. But so far neither your sources or methods have convinced me to take that much trouble or give trouble to others. It shouldnt be a repetition of Anna University/IIT profs meeting Ramar Pillai.

Since I am on vacation and have idle time I will take a shot :D

1. Did he say that he met Jesus two times in physical form? (I also read some where in one of his publication).
Yes he said. And I dont know where you got that "two" times, he said many times. BTW, do you have the name of the publication?(coz researchers should be specific in what they quote, otherwise they are merely verandah critics)

How far this is reliable? Is it theologically necessary for God to appear in physical form?

I dont know where this question will lead and where it will end. A long discussion on this is progressing in the "Does God exist?" thread.

2. His movement members say he prays and does fasting on the requests comes from many people? What is the probability of success he has? All are answered or he projects only the few positives (and blame the others as insufficient faith or just ignoring)? Is there any report mentioning his success rate?

Firstly, I dont think any person in the world keeps a monthly statistical count of "prayers prayed" and "prayers answered". Secondly, not a single person in the world(whatever be the religion) believes that ALL prayers are meant to be answered. Everyone has unanswered prayer.

3. Does he maintain a very simple life or wealthy life? How much is his present wealth compared to his earlier days? Does he run any business empire other than religious services?
That neither you nor me can tell. Only an employee of his group can tell the TRUTH. But if you are looking for guesses and assumptions rather than verified TRUTH, feel free to make one.

4. Is there any body other than his family leading the topmost positions of his evangelical movement? Why God bless as family?

Explain what is meant by top position. What is the activity you are talking about? From what I found in his site, it tells that different people of his group preach in different places.

From the websites I had seen, most of them are led by his family members.

He has just one son and a very small family. How do you who is a family member and who is not? And whats meant by "most of them"?

5. Do any one know about his extend of interaction with his predecessor Paul Seer Lauri of Seran Maga Devi (or Tenkasi) or his previous evangelical movement pioneers in Tamil Nadu?

Who is this paulseer lauri? I have never heard of him. Some days back you spelt the same guy as "paulseer Lawrie"! I am not getting him on google :)

6. Who are the other Foreign Preachers (Benny Hinn is one) associate with his movement and how far they are reliable?

He has 100s of friends and BH is just one of them. What do you want to know about BH? I have elaborately discussed BH in another yahoogroup a year back, after studying him from 2000-2003. Study BH and mail me your specific questions so we can get directly to the point.

7. If he can do miracle cure, why we need Adayar cancer Institute in Madras where he lives?

Why, is he the same person who started Adayar cancer institute? Are you saying just because someone believes in God, he should demolish all hospitals in his country? I dont understand the connection between him and ACI.
Is it wrong for those who believe in God to study MBBS?

Is it possible to prove he can cure all or at least more than scientifically acceptable spontaneous remission rate of all cancers (1 in 10,000 and 1 in 100,000 means if you pray on any name (or even don’t pray) for 10,000 cancer patient, then there is a possibility for 1 get sudden cure)?

Terribly wrong assumptions.
Firstly show me one person who claims "he"(not "He") will cure ALL diseases.
Secondly, everyone who advertises divine healing says that it wont work sometimes. Unanswered prayers exist.

Did he ever go to hospital for his own health problem?

Many times. 1969, Jan 1990, May 1994 to name a few.

8.Are these miracle cure comes under “placebo effect” or “psychogenic in nature (pain, nausea, vomiting, stuttering, stress, partial paralysis)”?

This can be best answered by forensic scientists, ENT specialists and dieticians. I dont see how I can give a convincing answer to this.

Is there any one proved with regeneration of lost body part, for example totally new hand or vision to the completely blind eye at Birth or appearance of new eye?

For this you need to goto his meetings or talk to the people who claim these. Have you taken any steps in this direction?

Please note that this thread is aimed to understand preachers and Godmen from various perspectives. So please avoid any personal hatred or abusive statements.

Yes but remember it is always wiser to take pains in the real world, research these things and talk to people. Otherwise we will spend few more years debating this based on assumptions. There are several threads like this in old forumhub started in 1997 and still running.

Apologies if I made any harsh or wrong statements anywhere. You know my email and can contact me if more queries.

r_kk

24th December 2004, 04:49 AM

Dear He3

r_kk,
You have conveniently ignored my question to you in the second post when I asked about the veracity of the sources.

I long suspected this when you used a porn site as backup and the other occasion when you dismissed off an MIT Ph.D's findings in less than 30 minutes!

All I wish to say is that you are more and more resembling another Ramar Pillai - dubious sources for your claims!
:D

What a comparison... Ramar Pillai. :) He was expecting money&fame motive and intendion to cheat... (I was strongly telling him as a lier who says something against the proven science). You are comparing a fake with person who tries to expose fake... What I do in this thread is asking the questions against something which is beyond the conventional science.... Then regarding the wrong link, I had given detail explantions already... I had given the correct link also later....

Then regarding the inconsistency in details about DGS , his family, his college issues are from the old thread (I had mentioned also). Not my own. Thanks for explanations. I will try to get more details and provide reply...

You had aslo posted about Sai Baba... Is it based on your own research? No... Can you distingusih between your intention and mine?

Who ever says they had seen God in physical form and God asked them to do this and that are fake as per my opinion. Any kind of miracle cure which beyond the law of nature is suspecious. I comapre it with the basic science I had studied... Thats why I am asking the questions....

As you said, I haven't done any major practical reserch but read lot of resiurces from the people (like Randi, Abragam Govoor, Indain Skeptic Association) who had really worked and exposed many of the foreign miracle healers. I will try to use the valid resources from now... OK? ... I have been working on very constructive upliftment program for lower segment of our society (non religious, or caste based) and was considering that working on these fake Godman as waste of time. Due to my official (to earn my bread) finding time to devote to the real constructive works itself becoming very difficult thing for me. So at this moment I couldn't spent time on the activities you had mentioned. But I feel this cheating business is rampent and it should be tackled. This is my basic and only intention. Surely I will do detail research in this line very soon and write more in detail based on my own experience...

Then about the MIT prof, you had been mentioining, I said one simple thing... Why he is not accepting the challange already kept beofre him. It doesn't require more than 30min.

Then regarding your statement regarding "my very conceptual problem" related to Jesus and Islam, you haven't given any answer yet.... but you are also changing the subjects boss.

I appreciate you for the methods to verify and reliability and consistancy of data to be used... Thanks... I will try to adopt this in my future postings....

Regarding other points, I will try to give a detail reply to you soon...

r_kk

24th December 2004, 06:05 AM

Dear Walrus,
I am writing from my vague memory based on the article in Tamil magazine Tarasu around 1986~87 written by Mervin (a christian broad minded writter who writes self esteem essays). I don't know whether he is alive or not.

Paulaseer Lawrie is one of the pioneers in Tamil Nadu starting the miracle cure business. He was initially a Christian preacher who was very successful till he announced that Jesus will come from heaven on such and such data at a particular place (tenkasi or Seran maga devi). When people gathered, he jumped out from the tree and announce himself as Jesus second coming. People didn’t accept him afterwards. So he changed his business location to Sri lanka and start using his ancestral Hindu name as Muthu Krishna and staring posing as Preacher belongs to multiple religions. He came back to India after some time and silently working on his business now…

Why I had written about him is the famous evangelist of present days were mentioned as disciples to him… I had kept that article for long time but I missed it. I will try to search my old files and provide if it is available…

Now a days (very recent phenomenon) most of the links to him us are not working (!!!)

---------------------------- Extract from some of the web sites------------------------------------

Son of Man Paulaseer Lawrie, Manujothi Ashram stands in a sixty three acres of landscaped plot ... as at 5 a.m. from Ashram precincts to Tirunelveli Junction. ...
www.daysofsonofman.com/About Us.htm

http://www.geocities.com/lahari_krishna/othersites.html

http://www.geocities.com/lahari_krishna/

http://www.bethelthehouseofgod.net/ehbook8.html

http://narayanaconsciousnes.tripod.com/Site_publish/Home_page.html
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It seems he is no more... but some one is running the show at low profile. Most of his juniors who is running the show today want to disassociate with him. But the old proofs are existing... I will try to talk to some of the old people and find out....

r_kk

24th December 2004, 01:48 PM

Dear Walrus,
I am getting more material about him and his close associates from various Christian resources (some what standard) and some christian research Institute... I will read in detail and write here.... But the chances of he becoming false in increasing.... I will tell you...

hehehewalrus

24th December 2004, 06:13 PM

rkk
i am hearing abt him for the first time here, as i was born in late 70s. he seems to be a fraud.

r_kk

24th December 2004, 06:46 PM

Yah, he was the pioneer of evangelical movement in Tamil Nadu.

I was also not aware till I read the articles written by Mervin. Lawrie was a very successful preacher between 60 and 70 and there was some links to next generation preachers. But no body want to talk about him. In the Mervin's article he had mentioned about the link between him and present day messiahs (some of them are blessed or trained or associated with him).

If you read about Benny Hinn you will also find some similarities... Read from Christian Research Institute web site (http://www.equip.org/free/DC755-1.htm)

"A case in point are the thousands of "documented" healings claimed by Hinn. Recently, he sent me three examples — presumably, the cream of the crop — as proof of his miracle-working power. One of the cases involved a man who was supposedly healed of colon cancer. A medically naive person reading the pathology report may well see the notation "no evidence of malignancy" and be duped into thinking that a bona fide healing had indeed taken place. CRI's medical consultant, Dr. Preston Simpson, however, was not fooled by the report. His investigation revealed that the colon tumor in question was surgically removed rather than miraculously healed. The other two cases had comparably serious problems"...
You can find another set of verification by CSICOP (4 cases) proving him as fake... This Institute also one of the accepted famous skeptical institute....

Since DGS was associated with these gentleman, I suspect him too... Today I had checked the DGS's web site. Most of the miracle cure are psychological. Nothing seems real...
see the following list...
http://www.prayertoweronline.org/miracle/miracle.asp?cat=14

Suicidal Thought Vanished,
Suicidal Tempatation Goned
Helps To Overcome Temptations!
New Job
Deliverance (free from Alcohol)
Broken Family Bonded Together
Demon Departs At Last!
Demon Chased Away
Witchcraft Ties Broken
The Devil Ran Away!
The Devil Fled! I was Amazed!
Deception no more!

Some thing wrong some where....

hehehewalrus

25th December 2004, 05:03 AM

What a comparison... Ramar Pillai. :) He was expecting money&fame motive and intendion to cheat... (I was strongly telling him as a lier who says something against the proven science).

Whether the intention is profit or non-profit does not matter. One can spread assumed allegations for the purpose of character assassination also. In my humble view, anyone who uses second hand sources and CONCLUDES or TRIES TO PROJECT some group/individual as a fraud is indulging character assassination.

You had aslo posted about Sai Baba... Is it based on your own research? No... Can you distingusih between your intention and mine?

Yes indeed, there are many differences between mine and yours:

1) Firstly, I referred to the 12-13 videos which strongly SUGGEST(the word is suggest, not prove) some trick involved. That is the main reason I put the link. If the website had no videos but only allegations, I would not pay any attention to it.

2) Secondly, I went through saipetition.net which requests a fair probe into the sai group. There are over 850 signatures from EX-DEVOTEES who have held positions in the group for decades. Now a thousand anti-Sai groups can start anti-Sai sites. I am least bothered about that. I am not even bothered about media organisations like BBC as the source.

I quoted Rajneesh because Outlook in 1997 put up a picture capturing the happenings in his ashram.

That is the major difference between your links and mine

3) Thirdly, why is it I have kept quiet about Bangaru Adigalar, Mata Amritanandamayi, DGS, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Vaswani? Because though I have went to most of their ashrams there is not a single piece of CONCLUSIVE evidence against them either in the net or outside. Hence I will not accuse them or start a witchhunt. (I am not been bothered about the financial aspect of their organisations)

As you said, I haven't done any major practical reserch but read lot of resiurces from the people (like Randi, Abragam Govoor, Indain Skeptic Association)

I understand and appreciate the efforts of people like Periyar and Abraham Kovoor. But that is their job and they can only give these type of reports. If you present Kovoor's findings to 100 sai devotees, hardly 5 will accept. That is why I give more weightage to an ex-devotee rather than Kovoor or PC Sorcar.

Then about the MIT prof, you had been mentioining, I said one simple thing... Why he is not accepting the challange already kept beofre him. It doesn't require more than 30min.

If you are interested in knowing the subject, you will READ the subject matter given by both parties.
If you are interested in only the result, you only need to find someone who disagrees.
And without reading the subject how can you tell who is right?

Then regarding your statement regarding "my very conceptual problem" related to Jesus and Islam, you haven't given any answer yet....
I never said anytime that you have a conceptual problem with Islam. Regarding Jesus, it will take me a couple of hours to type, hence please give me some time. Also, let christmas get over, for my post may hurt the feelings of some people and i dont want to post it now.

But I feel this cheating business is rampent and it should be tackled.

What cheating? Dont use such words unless anyone has been caught red-handed.

My friend, do you know one thing? I know nothing about you as a person. I need not know anything also. But do you realise that if I come to your neighborhood and paste 100 posters in every street saying "How come r_kk has this much wealth? r_kk seems to have lot of black income" - I can successfully demolish your name in the minds of atleast 40% of the people in your locality? If you are able to show some proofs and defeat my allegations, you might probably reduce the damage to 10%. But my effects of my attacks will stay!

That is the power of words! There is really a very thin line between character assassination and investigative journalism.

Regarding the scientific explanation part, read the next post

hehehewalrus

25th December 2004, 05:54 AM

Who ever says they had seen God in physical form and God asked them to do this and that are fake as per my opinion. Any kind of miracle cure which beyond the law of nature is suspecious. I comapre it with the basic science I had studied... Thats why I am asking the questions....

Let us have a broad look at the issue. We will temporarily ignore the event of God appearing in human form and look at the set of supernatural events as a whole.

My definition of supernatural is this : anything that happens without human effort or design that is hard to duplicate.

Examples are :

1. Physical healing without the use of modern medicine
2. Revelation of the future - maybe for a country or an individual
3. Revelation of the past - of a past event that is not public knowledge
4. Conversation with supernatural beings( any non earthly beings)
5. Encounters with ghosts or non-fleshly beings who dont have physical limitations of human beings.

Now in my personal experience, I have seen this happen inside and outside the religious context(black magix, sorcery which are done without any religious connection).

The religious context has no limitation on the faith system. I have heard those who are experts in Hindu practice meditation go into deep trances and feel vibrations which reveal info about the past or the future(This i have already discussed earlier). This I have heard from atleast 2 people known to me.

The change in AR Rahman's family happened as a result of the faith healing performed by a muslim cleric(From whatever sources I collected, there are different views. ARR's dad died in 1982. The conversion happened in 1990. Some sources suggest it was a muslim cleric but others claim he is a black magician. Interestingly one of his sisters is still a Hindu 15 years after that event. It is difficult to collect info on this, since ARR is by nature very quiet about his personal life)

Not just DGS, but I know over 2 dozen faith healers worldwide. Its not restricted to India but all over the world. I have the following book with me - http://www.a1wdb.com/cgi-bin/women/12724.html
which is a study of the healing movement in the US. The author Patsy Sims is a non-religious person and researched this subject from 1981-1988 attending close to a hundred healing meetings - If you read the actual book you will even find authenticated reports of not just the Snakehandlers movement(a cult in the US that handles live rattlesnakes during worship) but several people who openly drank poison and survived!!

Only an adamant person will accept that not even one event of the above 5 categories has happened in the real world! I dont agree with Number 5 (about ghosts since I have never seen one - but I am unable to give an explanation to sonu gopi or alisha about their experiences. It doesnt mean I have to say that they are frauds!!)

Now the thing I have seen so far in this thread is this:

1. Unbelievers strongly tell that these happeneings are hallucinations and demand that people who encountered them relate their experience!!
2. None of the postors in this forum is a psychologist who spends his lifetime doing research on these areas.
3. They can only quote from their experience(eg Alisha)
4. And since experience is an individual event and distinct for each person, it will never be accepted as a solution! Thats why even if a 100 Alishas post, we will not come to a conclusion! (I have experienced pretty much several events in my life similar to alishas but didnt post - its a waste of time in this debate)
5. By the way, not every person has the ability to exactly convey his thoughts in writing. we have our limitations in making our posts as an exact mirror of our thoughts. I honestly dont see why Justhubber is getting bashed - he can only tell what he has seen!!

6. And finally since the believers are scientifically dumb, why arent the unbelieving scientific experts providing an explanation for the 5 categories of supernatural events mentioned above?

All I see is that unbelievers are asking "Did this incident happen? If it did prove to us scientfically that it is valid!!" So the poor believers have to claim these incidents and prove them too with long explanations - only for the unbelievers to come 2 days later and give them FAIL mark for their posts! :lol: :lol: If you fail us, please tell us the correct answer atleast !!

There are some things which can be understood when you see it. and when you see it, you dont need even one line of explanation to believe it - it just gets into your heart, we dont even feel the need to think why we accept it.

All i can ask the unbelievers is to GO OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD and talk to the Sai devotees, XYZ devotees and talk, instead of harassing us for "more information" :lol: Until you do that, what you doing is just another form of character assassination and along with that, potential abuse of posters.

Okie, so far all we have seen in this thread is irrevelant - The question is "Does God exist?" and so far our discussions have centered on religion, hardly 5% is of God :lol: :lol:

But that we will deal with another time :) :)

hehehewalrus

25th December 2004, 06:00 AM

r_kk,
Benny Hinn is visiting Bangalore in January. If you are serious in your research, I would advice you to go in person and investigate(one meeting with him concluded my studies of him from 2000-2003). It will definitely save you a lot of time later! :)

r_kk

25th December 2004, 09:20 AM

Walrus,
I am not trying to do any character assisnations. I am not concluding them as fake.... I am writting the common questions which arise in the mind of non-believer.

If one was/is associated with two people who had/has been considered as "not real" then automatically people look at the third one also with suspecious.

The proof I had given about the Benny Hinn are also from the valid institutes. Why you can't consider as reasonable? http://www.csicop.org/si/2002-05/i-files.html
If you say the above as a not valid proof, then I have to say that you are looking for only positive evidence. Then I have only one option....given below

Can Mr. Benny Hinn accept the following challange to prove that he has any kind of power or demonstarte any kind of things beyond the law of Nature?

http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html

There are videos available about the famous Korean Pastor but still people are believing and many of TN missionories are projecting him as very good in Tamil Nadu... How to accept that?

I am pasting the following from my own writting in "Does God Exist" thred.

You don't believe the Korea's one of the top 3 TV station... and Phillipine, Korean council of churches!!! after all what I can do.... I will write a article soon behind the miracle cure business and what one need to do it successfully (How to project only the lowest probabity of positive results).

“...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Bible... Are these coat wearing family business conglomerates can fit in?

I came to know from one miracle healer’s self advertisement that he is taking photographs before and after his prayer to prove how his prayers are working on people… even nearby doctors are witnessing the proof . I couldn’t understand what these Guys intentions… Are they want to prove God with just cheep methods? If at all a God, is it necessary to prove God, who is considered as the creator of world with single word, by such cheap means? These messiahs calling themselves as God’s blessed people and they advertise in TVs, papers every where just like advertisement for cosmetic creams… quack medical practitioners.

They are selling God to poor and mentally/physically week people… Just look at the wealth they had generated… the luxurious way of life they maintain, their business empire and the way they project their own family members as the leaders of blessed people, just like business…

Is there any one has jealous about the good people like Vinobaji, Baba Amte and those who had worked for down rotten people. Few of them were also God believers… but they don’t sell God… They don’t say God came to them in physical form and asked them to start colleges they don’t say false prophesies, they don’t say that they have control on nature (with/without the help of God) … they don’t say that God will give you this and that through them….because the people who really felt God will not sell God…
...

If you consider that I have to depend only on my research and not using available resources, then I can not write any more based on practical examples at this moment. Let me do more detail research after some time, then come with facts. I can write logically, how these messiahs doesn't fit in to the "Natural Law". My humble opinion is even if there is a God, he will not break his own "Natural Law"

hehehewalrus

26th December 2004, 09:07 AM

The proof I had given about the Benny Hinn are also from the valid institutes. Why you can't consider as reasonable? http://www.csicop.org/si/2002-05/i-files.html
If you say the above as a not valid proof, then I have to say that you are looking for only positive evidence.

My friend, I have already done first-hand research on BH and have a long list of his strengths and weakness. Publishing them here would be irrelevant. If you are interested, I will mail it to you.

Secondly, there is one fundamental difference in the yardstick that you and I use. Not just I, but just about any other theist. You are more concerned with historical evidence and explanation for 1000 events past and present. That's not my basis.

I really dont care whether Noah's flood happened or not. I dont really care whether BH or DGS or Lawrie or Saibaba or any godman produces GENUINE miracles or not. It matters little to me whether I find positive evidence or negative evidence about BH.

I am not interested in a mediator between my heart and God.

All I want is a direct relationship with Him, to hear His voice and seek what He wants me to do with the life He's given me. My concern is whether God is living enough to care for MY LIFE, THE HUNGER IN MY HEART, whether He is interested in a day-to-day relationship with me - and I know by over decade-long interaction He does! Thats enough for me. At 27, I have pretty much faced every kind of disaster, problem, difficulty, sorrow a person will face in a lifetime - and I still know the purpose behind it and that God is enough. I was a guy who in his childhood several times had no idea how to face tomorrow, what tomorrow will bring - extreme sorrows/disasters and when I look back, I know God has faithfully kept me through all those. I was wearing borrowed clothes, I had no idea whether I will go to college, no hope for the future in education, and despite all that God has lifted me here years later, without any human help!!! I know I have been created for a purpose that is much more than working in software, accumulating money, buying property....noooooo!! that is not what God expects
from me. He has much higher things for me. He desires to pass on to me His unselfish nature and His qualities. And that is true for every single person. You may call me inexperienced,simple-minded and blind for my simple beliefs, fine go ahead.

(If anyone believes God is in a tight corner and needs support from His believers(lies, exaggerations) he is wrong!!! God does not require false testimony!! It is funny to imagine that we are doing a big service to Him by defending Him :lol: :lol: )

And I really dont know how the truth about BH/any godman can work in your life and why you are interested in it.

Case1: It is proved that Godman XYZ is fake.
Likely Result : You will go ahead and write papers that the God of Godman XYZ is false.

Case2: It is proved by 100 evidences that the miracles produced by Godman XYZ is true
Likely Result: Would it make you a believer in XYZ's religion? I dont think so. I dont really believe it will convince you. Not just you but anybody else. If I were you, I wont believe!! Why should I? I want a personal experience.

If the lamp in my room works everytime I switch it on, I dont care if it worked for Edison. It probably would have is my belief. If someone gives me a bulb and tells me it was invented by Edison and it doesnt work for me, why should I think Edison was right?

Can Mr. Benny Hinn accept the following challange to prove that he has any kind of power or demonstarte any kind of things beyond the law of Nature?

I dont know about BH but if I had the gifts that He has, I would use that in the way God intends it to be used. Those gifts are not meant for an exhibition for me to call a crowd, say "Listen all of you nonbelievers! God has sent me as a messenger and you name a trick, I will make it happen in front of your eyes". No I wont ever do that! I believe God talks to EVERY human being in a personal way and everyone is accountable to Him - I would never come in between.

There are videos available about the famous Korean Pastor but still people are believing and many of TN missionories are projecting him as very good in Tamil Nadu... How to accept that?

I have no idea about him - I first heard about him from you in this forum. If they say he's good, thats their opinion based on their FIRST HAND interactions. I dont see how it will affect someone in India.

If someone tells me some unpleasant thing about my friend, my first duty would be to ask his opinion on that. Why should I bother what others tell about him?

You say you have been researching these things for over 16 years, what first-hand research did you do? Reading a third persons reports can only inject his views into your system, it will never help you think for yourself.

hehehewalrus

26th December 2004, 09:16 AM

Suicidal Thought Vanished,
Suicidal Tempatation Goned
Helps To Overcome Temptations!
New Job
Deliverance (free from Alcohol)
Broken Family Bonded Together
Demon Departs At Last!
Demon Chased Away
Witchcraft Ties Broken
The Devil Ran Away!
The Devil Fled! I was Amazed!
Deception no more!

Some thing wrong some where....

If I were an alcoholic/smoker for several years and all of a sudden(through prayer/counselling/doctor's help/medicine) I stop smoking a single cigarettes for the next few years, I would definitely consider that a miracle. In my opinion, it is far superior to getting relief from physical miracles like a headache or stomachache - in the end we are all going to physically die anyway

r_kk

26th December 2004, 09:47 AM

It is all depends upon from which perspective you look.
I was also a chain smoker and left it in a fine one day. I don't think I can consider this as a miracle.

I read so many of the miracle healer books and find many times they do very systematic character assisination of God/Gods of other religion in a very sweet way. I will try to explain the political reasons behind this kind of movement in a next article. There are information in their motives beyond spritual. Let me analyse and then provide.

Then, I frankly accept that I have not carried out direct reserch on Benny Hinn or DGS and I am depending on the famous reserch Institutes who are working on this line. I don't know how this become a sole weak point. The links I had given (CSICOP) is a standard Institute. The other Institute (CRI) is a christian Institute. http://www.equip.org/free/DC755-1.htm

When you had decided already +ve in mind, you will find only the negative part in my postings. Any way I will try to participate with rationalistic movements and work on ground in this line.

Have you read Brother DGS Prophesies?
Please read the following…
http://www.prayertoweronline.org/2001/final.asp

2001:
USA:
United States of America will become a still more powerful Super Power.

God's grace will be upon all that the new President does. Nations will respect him for that. He will be brief in his speech and will keep the world guessing as to what would be his next move regarding any issue.

Explanations given afterwards.
The US Elections was a time of great confusion and the climax of it was thrilling. It ended up with George Bush pledging as President of USA, according to the Word of Prophecy through Bro. D.G.S. Dhinakaran. Terrorist attacks on Sep-11 and the stand of President Bush are according to God's prophecy for 2001 given by Dr.D.G.S. Dhinakaran.
Israel:
The problems that were in Israel last year has remained unsolved so far. But it shall become a mighty power soon.
Explanations given afterwards:
The situation around Israel has not changed till today. But recent trends show how Israel has emerged as a powerful nation.
What he tried to say?
Does it mean that Mr. Bush’a acts are approved by God?
Do you accept this?

Similarly there are some Prophesies from Benn Hinn also…
http://www.incredibletruth.org/ben_hinn.htm
I will come to this later?
As a non-believer I am becoming more suspecious than understnading him. Are Mr. BH prophesis reasonable?

mandangi

24th February 2005, 08:02 AM

Politicians are main propaganda sources of godmen. When ever they visit godmen media gives over publicity. When Chandra Babu Naidu was CM of AP he touched feet of Satya Sai Baba once. Media shot photos and gave over publicity to it.

blahblah

24th February 2005, 11:17 AM

I am sorry to interfere guys,but I would like to narrate an experience here.I have seen both Benny Hinn and the Dinakarans on TV many times.Infact I used to regularly watch Hinn on some christian channel till the religious fundamentalists stopped the transmission.

I have attended a prayer meeting organised by a believers church in Indiranagar,Bangalore and led by Pastor Paul Thangaih,with my boss, whom I hold for a true Christian.The meeting was attended by Jaffer Sheriff,exminister and MP.

During the prayers,Paul Dinakaran claimed that Jesus came to his father physically and walked with him for many hours.I don't remember the exact words,but think that this happened in the night and Jesus stayed with him till morning and asked him to preach his good news to the masses.

Later he went on to stay that one day when his wife was about to deliver his child,seeing her pain and difficulties he prayed to God if could share the pain.Suddenly he felt a huge pain in his abdomen and his wife delivered the baby comaparatively easily after which the pain eased.[I am glad that he didn't deliver half the baby :roll: ].

It should be noted that at the arrival of Dinkaran,both himself and Thangaiah started showering praises on each other.

Later, the miracle healing started and he came out with many names who, he claims, have been healed.

At this stage,my boss told me he is a fraud and there is no God or holiness there.Since my opinion was no different from his,we decided to leave.

WHAT I SAW THERE WAS NOT THE GLORIFICATION OF GOD ,BUT THE GLORIFICATION OF PAUL,D.G.S.&STELLA DINAKARAN ALONG WITH PAUL THANGAIAH AND HIS FAMILY.

jaiganes

24th February 2005, 11:32 AM

r_kk

24th February 2005, 12:38 PM

Thanks Blahblah for coming with nice piece of information. I just saw one of such program in Vijay TV one week back. I felt that the level of personal glorification is much higher than glorification of the GOD. I couldn't understand how the GOD can bless a person, his son , his grand chidren and even his Daughter in law with powers to do miracles? Why God needs such mediators to prove his greatest powers?

Similarly, in the goddess photo distributed by Mel Maruvathur, the samiyar photo also printed at equal size. It means the believers has to pray not only to the goddess but also to the mediator.

I feel these new kind of mediators (preacher or baba or samiyar) based ways to reach the so called GOD will not only keep the believers away from enlightenment but it will push them to ignorant or hatred world.

Shakthiprabha.

24th February 2005, 01:40 PM

Anyone who says he is GOD, can also be a person who believes in ADVAITA.

A preacher need NOT BE A GODMAN. Whilst ppl like ramakrishna, etc EXPERIENCED THE ONENESS, they did not impose worship of themselves.

Initially in olden periods these so called GODMEN must have been genuine ppl, intersted in sorting and solving ppl's problems, buildign confidence in them, and TAKING THEM TO A HIGHER path. While there were ppl in every level of ignorance, such godmen WERE NECESSARAY.

Now, when most of us are sceptic about GOD or his or its existence, GODMEN has become a mockery. Even so, when more such godmen ARE HERE TO JUST LOOT PEOPLE, to earn fame and money.

As times change, certain ethical values takes a diff perception.
God-men as of today IS NOT NCESSARY.

What we need is a GURU... a GUIDE...and he NEED NOT BE A GODMAN.

mandangi

24th February 2005, 02:11 PM

All fake Godmen are so much fun!!!
They entertain us like anything. I loved the dance of the dance samiyar 'Shiv shankar baba' and the rants of yaagava munivar!! If you remove them from our society, we will have no entertainment folks!!!
Not fun. They are playing with mental weakness of people. People are becoming more ignorant by believing those babas. Please think it as serious issue. Fooling people for personal benefit cannot be fun.

Roshan

28th February 2005, 03:16 PM

r_kk,

When I was reading your first post in this thread, I was wondering as to why you had not included the well known fraud called Dhinkaran. But you did not dissapoint me. Dhinkaran is a fraud as much as sai baba , premananda etc etc. It's a well known fact. His whole family is into fraudulant acts and misguiding people. Majority of the South Indian christians know that very well. He uses mass hypnotism to mislead innocent people.

blahblah,

Bravo!! I really appreciate you for being so open and straight forward. You never try to cover up or manipulate things like what some others do. :wink:

r_kk

28th February 2005, 04:17 PM

Roshan,
religion had become a big business hese days.... getting lot of fame, money and unconditional respect and surrender from ignorant mass are becoming simple for these kind of cheats. Like Pangaru, many so called godmen and messiahs are putting ther entire family in to such easy and lucarative business. Now a days TV also used extensively to self advertise them as mediators to God. First of why believers of God has to request to God to give this and that as if treating the God as ignorant to their own worldly gains. I had seen in one evangelist TV advt saying that there are some prayer soldiers to pray to God on behalf of them. As an ex-theiest, I felt it s the worst ill treatment of God concept itself by so called believers.

Now a days I am contacting various persons who are doing systematic research and organisations who expose such fraud activities. I will try to do more systematic work in this line and then write here with evidents.

blahblah

28th February 2005, 04:33 PM

blahblah,

Bravo!! I really appreciate you for being so open and straight forward. You never try to cover up or manipulate things like what some others do. :wink:

I don't! The only thing is that some women in this hub advice me to grow up,when I don't tolerate real idiotism.They think that I am having or trying to have fun at somebodyelse's expense,which is not true.I am just pouring out my anger and that's it. :wink:

Roshan

28th February 2005, 04:40 PM

Roshan,
Now a days TV also used extensively to self advertise them as mediators to God.

Yeah true. Two days back I happened to watch a couple of such programs on Vin TV and Thamizhan TV . I dont know why the media is encouraging this kind of false religious propoganda.

saw a program of request to God to give this and that as if treating the God as ignorant to their own worldly gains.

True!! I wonder why people need middle men to deal their problems with God.

I had seen in one evangelist TV advt saying that there are some prayer soldiers to pray to God on behalf of them. As an ex-theiest, I felt it s the worst ill treatment of God concept itself by so called believers.

I agree !! and I should say that one doesn't have to be an athiest to realize it. A real believer of God will never indulge in such insulting activities. Only the ones who are confused would go behind such Godmen.

Now a days I am contacting various persons who are doing systematic research and organisations who expose such fraud activities. I will try to do more systematic work in this line and then write here with evidents.

That's good !! Please do post your findings. :)

Surya

1st March 2005, 12:34 AM

lordstanher

6th March 2005, 11:43 AM

I don't think that there ar any godmen or messiahs that people know. If they are godmen or messahs, then they wouldn't be going around saying that they are for publicity. (Benny Hinn :evil: :evil: :evil: , Premanandha! :x :evil: Well, u get the pic. )
There are real godmen, but nobody knows about them.

Hey, Premananda was definitely no godman- unless therez more than one of them w/ tat name! :?
The one I'd read abt had been found to've been forcing young girls/women who came to his ashram into prostitution until finally one 'devotee' of his got to know the truth and got him exposed/arrested......hap'd many years ago I believe......

Hemant Trived1

6th March 2005, 03:50 PM

There should be an Intellectuals crusade against all such GODMEN/BABAS/Smiling Bafoons who exploit not only common people but also fools with loads of money in the kitty.
Speaking og Benny Hinn, if he can cure sick and infirm people and make mute speak, lame walk and what not, WHY HE DID NOT CURE POPE JOHN PAUL ?
We should rise against such fake Godmen and expose them.

blahblah

7th March 2005, 12:21 PM

Speaking og Benny Hinn, if he can cure sick and infirm people and make mute speak, lame walk and what not, WHY HE DID NOT CURE POPE JOHN PAUL ?

A bit of a wrong notion there Mr.Trivedi.I don't think Hinn would have cured the Pope even if he could.It is no secret that Catholics and Protestants do not go very well with each other :wink: .

Surya

9th March 2005, 06:36 AM

Lord,
Yeah, he was a fraud! :evil: I think that was many years ago, like 10?

Hemantji,
Nice about Benny Hinn!!! :lol: :thumbsup:

Blahblah,
I think that point was that BH is a fraud. :D

blahblah

9th March 2005, 11:34 AM

Blahblah,
I think that point was that BH is a fraud. :D
Oh,can't escape saying 'not too sure',just because I am a Christian,Surya? :lol: :lol:
I know that Jesus was against the establishment and never was an appeaser of the powerful.I would like his 'followers' to be so too. :evil: :x

r_kk

9th March 2005, 04:04 PM

Yes Blahblah, you are correct...
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Bible Mark 10:25.

This is the standard for testing a preacher... If one is pure kind hearted (without even bothering to preach or convert), and leading a very simple way of life, they can be called "followers of God" or 'followers of pure love". All others are fake... Any man who themselves declare that he can do miracle on name of god (poor chaps why god need such inefficient ways) and gain name and fame, he is nothing but a fake...

Surya

10th March 2005, 01:19 AM

Any man who themselves declare that he can do miracle on name of god (poor chaps why god need such inefficient ways) and gain name and fame, he is nothing but a fake...

Exactly! That's why I think that Benny Hinn is a fraud. Even in the Sai Baba Thread, I never said that he is a godman etc. Just said that I didn't think that he was a pedo/rapist etc. And that he was very knoledgeable on Adwaitham Philosophies.

Anyone who tries to advertise their "Special super-human abilities" and tries to get paid for it is a fraud. And Sai Baba and Benny Hinn fall under these categories.

Roshan

10th March 2005, 09:35 AM

A bit of a wrong notion there Mr.Trivedi.I don't think Hinn would have cured the Pope even if he could.It is no secret that Catholics and Protestants do not go very well with each other :wink: .

LOL 1 @ blahblah :lol:

Surya wrote:
Blahblah,
I think that point was that BH is a fraud.

Oh,can't escape saying 'not too sure',just because I am a Christian,Surya?

LOL 2 @ blahblah :rotfl:

Surya

10th March 2005, 01:58 PM

:lol: :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl: :huh: :huh:

Regards. 8)

Sandeep

10th March 2005, 03:47 PM

How about GODWOMEN

Like MATHA AMRITHANANDAMAYI.

hehehewalrus

10th March 2005, 11:22 PM

There is no controversy about Mata Amrita as of yet. It is pretty purposeless to rant and rave over it.
Godmen will continue to thrive and the only way anyone can be nailed is by lodging a case in systematic manner - such as practising medicine without a licence. But there is no such clearcut law in Indian framework for this. Hence there is no way you can take the issue to a logical conclusion.
Unless you want to rant and rave and earn yourself the reputation of an internet gladiator who is pretty useless in the real world! ;)

lordstanher

14th March 2005, 02:51 PM

W/ no offence towards the respective religion, cud ne of u guys give me ur opinion abt all those famous healing festivals tat r thronged by scores of ppl. in our country often?? Neone who has- or knows neone who has- personally experienced a genuine healing from such conventions??

Surya

16th March 2005, 01:36 AM

These REAL frauds such as SB, never get any justice.

Neone who has- or knows neone who has- personally experienced a genuine healing from such conventions??

I have never, but I do know many who claim to have had such expierences. I believe that some people have certain abilities from practicing certain things, but if one tries to ask for donations, or try to advertise themselves, then they are frauds, unless of course they are professional doctors. Like I said in an earlier post, True Godmen never try to advertise themselves.

paul_lahari

14th February 2006, 11:13 AM

Dear Brother r_kk,

Sree Paulaseer Lawrie Muthu Krishna is True Kalki Maha avatar, about whom Hindus are waiting for;
He is Christ JEsus, about whom christians are waiting for;
He is Imam Mahadi, about whom muslims r waiting for;

Fof Different web Site Links of Lord Lahari Krishna
see www.lahari.tk
http://www.geocities.com/paul_lahari/lk/index.html
www.kalkimahaavatar.com

A. Sarath Babu,
Ardent Devotee of Lord lahari Krishna
Vizag,
india.
RIM: 9346445822

Lambretta

14th February 2006, 01:10 PM

*DIGR*
Hi sarath garu! :D
Welcome to the Hub! Nice to see sumone from AP besides me, tat too from Vizag itself! :D
Where in Vizag do u live btw?

r_kk

16th February 2006, 07:35 PM

Dear Mr. Paul_lakari,
Thanks for your response and links to the web sites. I hope you might be knowing much better details about him. I am ready to discuss about Mr. Lakiri in detail. Can you please reply to my questions in details.

First can you tell me,

I came to know that he was arrested for hiding lakhs of rupees underground by police and CBI. Is it true?

Second,
Did he announce that he himself as second coming of Jesus and declared that Jesus will appear at Kuttralam on such and such date? Did he jump from tree covering himself with feathers and leaves?

Third,
Did he force his daughter-in-law to leave his family?

Fourth,
Did he declare as hindu saint when he was in Sri Lanka?

Fifth,
Why did he die like an unknown even if he was a second coming?

Your answers will be helpful to understand the facts better. Since he was the most pioneering evangelists and most of the present day evangelists being early disciples to him, your reply will help many people to understand him better.

Please note that many people declared themselves as God or God's prophet using this same technique (from Qadiyani- Ahamadhiya Islam sect, Bahaiyulla - Bahai religion and many more including so called Kalki avatar of today).

(Dear other hubbers, sorry I was too busy with real life and couldn't able to participate in this forums like before. I will try to provide my opinion when any one raise questions on the threads, which I had initiated)