Old Hindi Film Music

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Topic suggested by SR Kaushik on Mon Feb 1 14:34:08 .


First of all, an apology. This section is on films but I am taking the liberty of inserting this topic because
1. There is a thread on Malayalam Film Music right here.

2. I think this topic deserves a separate thread and I found no better place to put it.

Getting to the topic itself: I think old HFM MDs were a highly capable lot. No, I'm not referring to just tunes. The orchestral colorations, although not (IMO) up to the standard of IR, were pretty good.

I'd like to discuss some of their achievements.

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Kausik,
No need to apologise. Any aspect of indian films is welcome here (except of course Tamil Film Music :-) for which we have a better place.)

I'll post on this topic later.

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Kaushik: Is it only about the music or can we talk about the lyrics of the old songs too.

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Ah! One of my favourite topics - old Hindi Film music. Thrilled to see this thread. (And I don't see why we can't discuss lyrics also).

Will be back later with some of my favourites.

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i can't possibly list my favs because there are just too many of them, but what the hell, let's begin.

kabhi kabhi mere dil mein - Mukesh
o manjhi re - Kishore
zindagi bhar nahin bhoolegi - Rafi
mere mehboob tujhe - Rafi
o sajna barkha bahaar aayee - Lata
aaja ree main to kab se khadi - Lata
chalo ek baar phir se - Mahendra Kapoor
tum pukar lo - Hemant Kumar
yeh raat yeh chandni - Hemant Kumar
and every song that talat mehmood sang.
where's everybody, i am dying to get started.

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All of you are welcome to discuss lyrics too.

My favorite composers is SDB. Mind you, all his contemporaries were great too but IMO he was, let us say, the first among near-equals.

Even Shankar Jaikishan were a great duo. I think they were the MDs most well versed in WCM. It showed in their use of violins and their chord progressions.

Let me begin with a few songs that I think were good not only tune-wise but also in other technical aspects:
1. Ae dil mujhe bata de (very old song, I don't know which film; MD- Madanmohan) - an excellent WC piece repeated in both interludes.

2. Waqt ne diya - MD:SDB, sung by Geeta Dutt (was the film Pyaasa?). It had those typical olden day piano beats and a great bassy violin interlude.

3. Tum pukar lo - MD & singer- Hemant Kumar; I like it mainly for the lazy and romantic touch which Hemantda has given to this song while singing it. It includes a very good violin piece too. I also liked the chord progression for the pallavi.

4. Nakhrewali - (MD: SJ; singer-Kishore Kumar) amazing tune very well colored.

Of course what I have mentioned is merely infinitesimal. There's lots of further ground to cover.

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srk, its waqt ne kiya, not diya, and is
not in Pyaasa but Kaagaz ke flowers (hindi-yil ezhuthina frobidden (?) word-nnu varudhu ).
Absolutely brilliant song, with some great lyrics by Kaifisaab.

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Yes - if I too were to list all my favourites here, we might run out of the quota allocated for this site! To make it easier on myself, I'll start with categorizing them by MD's. Of course, S.D Burman happens to be one of my favourites too!

Jayen to Jayen Kahan (Talat - Taxi Driver)
Tere Mere Sapne (Rafi - Guide)
Piya Those (Lata - Guide)
Jalte Hain Jiske Liye (Talat - Sujatha)
Kali Ghata Chaye Mora Jiya Ghabraye (Asha - Sujatha)
Soch ke ye gagan jhoome (Lata and Manna Dey - Jyoti) - in my opinion, this is one of Burman's masterpieces - but not as well known as some of his other compositions.
Poocho na kaise (Manna Dey - Meri Soorat Teri Aankhen)
Mora Gora Ang Laile (Lata - Bandini)
Jane Kya Tune Kahee (Geeta Dutt - Pyasa)
Kayee Khwaab (Rafi - Teen Deviyan)
Aise to na Dekho (Rafi - Teen Deviyan)
Megha Chaaye Aadhi Raat (Lata - Sharmilee) - semi-classical song blended with western interludes
Kaise kahen Hum (Rafi - Sharmilee) (one of the most subtle renditions of Tilang)
Jeevan ki Bagiya (Lata and Kishore - Tere Mere Sapne)
Tere Mere Milan (Lata and Kishore - Abhimaan)
Nadiya Kinare (Lata - Abhimaan)
Lena Hoga janam hame kayi kayi baar (Kishore - Prem Pujari)

Love his singing too:

Sun More Bandhu Re (Sujatha)
More Sajan Hai Us par (Bandini)
Dheere se aana Bagiyan mein (non-filmy - later sung by Kishore in Prem Pujari?)

I'm sure I'm missing a few of his other gems. Does anyone remember a dance scene in Guide, set in a village - where Waheeda does a snake dance with another woman - the music (especially the drums) is awesome.

S.R Kaushik, I believe "Ae dil mujhe bata de" is from Bhai Bhai.

Later, with more of my favourites

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yeah nalini,
that piece from guide was awesome. but then, everything about the film was. say what, why don't we start discussing the music of Guide? its a great album, probably the best representative of SDB.

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A request: I think it would be better if we discussed some particular song(s) (like cram suggested: Guide's songs) as in the "Songs discussion" thread including its tune, orchestration, etc.

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Nalini :
Are you referring to the "Aaj phir jEnE ki Tamanna" song?

I have a very high opinion of SDB too. The tunes were rich in folk music and had apt orhestration.
Among Shankar Jaikishen's melodies, the one I like best is "Kaun hai jo Sapnon me aaya" (film ??). It is amazing that Shankar Jaikishen had such good Western Classical knowledge. Or was this song an inspiration?? :-)
My favorite HFM composer is Salil Chaudhary. He did a great job in Anand and Madhumati. "Kaheen door jab din dhal jayee" and "maine tere liye" are great songs.

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I agree. GUIDE was a landmark in HFM. IMO, Kishore Kumar sang his best songs for S.D. Burman, esecially the ones before ARADHNA.

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For a collection of favourite HFM oldies on RealAudio, please visit:

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bridge/2225/

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Srinivas,
It is not a song, but just pure instrumental music for 4-5 minutes in a scene where Dev and Waheeda are watching a village belle dance and Waheeda gets up and joins her, entranced.
Yes - Salil Chowdhary is one of the best - the beauty of his compositions lies in the simplicity of melodies and the uncomplicated BGM - O Sajna (Parakh), Aanso Samajh ke (Chaya), Kishore's Koi Hota (Mere Apne) to name a few of my favourites.

Feeling nostalgic....

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Saw discussion earlier about this song, couldnt resist posting this :


waqt nE kiya
kyaa hasin sitam
tum rahE na tum
hum rahE na hum

bEkaraar dil is tarhaa milE
jis tarhaa kabhi hum judaa na thE
tum bhi khO gayE
hum bhi khO gayE
Ek raah par
chalkE dO kadam (waqt nE kiyaa...)

jaayEngE kahan sUjhtaa nahin
chal padE magar raastaa nahin
kyaa talaash hai
kuchh pataa nahin
bun rahE hain dil
khaab dam-ba-dam (waqt nE kiyaa...)

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kaushik,

if we are going to do something like song discussion, then i would like to discuss abt the following songs.
aap ke nazaron ne samjha pyaar ke
ye zindhagi usiki hai jho

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sorry wrong! that should be
shall we discuss the following songs

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rs: Sure, go right ahead.

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people, people,
can we start with "chalo ek baar phir se", an all-time fav of mine? its simply out of this universe and would be a fine start to discussions in this thread.

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What about Aa- Janeja Lata M from the film Inteqaam - difficult to believe that LP created this classic.

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Nalini:
Thanks for reminding about the Lata-Manna Dey duet from the film Jyothi.It is a wonderful song like other songs in that movie.I think we should discuss real good songs which never became popular because the films flopped.
There is a very melodious duet by Rafi and Talat in a movie called Susila.Music is by C.Arjun.The song is "Gham ki andheri raat mein".Does anyone remember this song?There are two beautiful Talat-Lata duets in a little seen film called Prem Patra.Music is by Salil Chaudry.
Ramamurthy

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I've been looking for lyrics of this song for a long time. Never found it on any hindi film music site on the net.

There is this lovely song from the film Deedar-E-yaar which goes

tumkO dEkhaa tO samajh mein aayaa
lOg kyon but kO khudaa maantE hain
pehlE anjaan thE ab jaantE hain ...

anyone heared this?

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Wow! now i remeber of my Talat's favourite
jalthe hain jiske liye
........
gheeth main tere liye
wonderful piece.

Bull: dont remeber. probably if u sing or hum that song, i might
find ;-))))

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hmmm lovely lyrics too... anyone knows who?

dil mein rakh lEnaa isE
haathOn sE yeh chhUtE naa kahin
geet naazuk hai mEraa
sheeshE sE bhI, tUtE naa kahin
gungunaaongaa yahin geet mein tErE liyE

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who else but majrooh sultanpuri? this is often rated as one of his best ever

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Thanks Cram

I noticed that you wanted to talk about
chalO ik baar phir sE

I remember the following beautiful lines from that song ...

woh afsaanaa jisE anjaam tak laanaa na hO mumkin
usE ik khUbsoorat mod dEkar chhOdnaa achhaa

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Does anyone know/remember the 1st stanza of the song Ive given below? Ive given the 2nd stanza...


is rang badalti duniyaa mein
insaan kI nIyat thIk nahin
niklaa na karO tum saj-dhaj kar
Imaan kI nIyat thIk nahin

kaandhE sE hataa lO sar apnaa
yeh pyaar muhabbat rahnE dO
kashti kO sambhaalO maujOn sE
tUfaan kI nIyat thIk nahin

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bull, I believe the 1st and 3rd stanzas go like this:


yE dil hai badaa hI divaanaa
CHEdaa na karO is paagal kO
tum sE na sharaarat kar baitE
naadaan ki nIyat thIk nahin


main kaise KHuda-haafiz keh doon
mujhko to kisI ka yakIn nahin
chup jao hamaarI aakhOn mein
bhagvaan ki nIyat thIk nahin



Pretty lyrics.

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oops. closing italics

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Wow! Thanks Nalini! Thanks very much indeed.

Another Rafi-for-Shammi song with lovely lyrics ...

ehsaan tEraa hOgaa mujhpar
dil chahtaa hai woh kahnE dO
mujhE tumsE muhabbat hO gayi hai
mujhE palkon kI chhaanv mein rahnE dO
ehsaan tEraa hOgaa mujhpar

tumnE mujhkO hasnaa sikhaayaa
rOnE kahO tO rO dEngE
aansoo kaa hamaarE gam na karO
woh bahtE hain tO bahnE dO ...

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continuing bull's good work

chahe banaa do
chahe mitaa do
mar bhi gaye to
denge duaen

ud udke kahegi khaak sanam
ye dard-e-muhabbat sehne do
mujhe tumse mohabbat ho gayi hai
mujhe palkon ki chaaon mein rehne do
ehsaan tera hoga mujhpar...

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now for the song i have been meaning to take up:
film gumraah, sahir's lyrics set to tune by ravi and sung by mahendra kapoor for sunil dutt.

chalo ek baar phir se
ajnabi ban jaaye hum dono
chalo ek baar

na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon
dilnawaazi ki
na tum mere taraf dekho chalak angaar
nazron se
na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkadaaye
meri baaton se
na zaahir ho tumhaari kashm-a-kash ka
raaz nazron se

this song simply blows me away every time i hear it. the lyrics, by the incomparable sahir, are believed to be autobiographical (the story is that he was in love with amrita pritam, but they couldn't come together. he promptly took to the bottle and when he once met her at a party, he sang these lines. of course, the story is probably apocryphal, but it could well have been true, when we take a look at the lines, which could have only written by a man who has lost in love, or one whose genius was unmatched (sahir was reputed to be both).

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hmmm... Wasnt Sahir also the lyricist for the wonderful songs of Guru Dutt's pyaasaa?

Apart from
yeh mahlon yeh takhtOn yeh taajOn ki duniyaa

one song which really stays in mind from that film is

jinhE naaz hai hind par woh kahaan hain?

Cram: Do you have access to lyrics of this one?

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bull,
i do have the tapes. shall listen to them (been so long) and then post the lyrics.

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Time to add my two bits here. It is difficult to list a set of favourites because I have quite a long list. So, I'll start with a couple of songs that are ransacking my mind now...Hemant Kumar 's classics in khamoshi

"Humne dekhi hai un aankhon ki mehak ki khushboo-haath se chooke Inhe rishton ka ilzaam na do;sirf
ehsaas hai yeh..rooh se mehsoos karo-pyar
ko pyar hi rehne do,koi naam na do"


Gulzar at his evocative best(and when you catch gulzar at his best, as Lord Ickenham would say of himself, you have got something). It is so different an approach in the love-cliche ridden HF songs. The lines
"Pyar ko pyar hi rehne do-koi naam na do"
really move me to tears.

The stanzas go:

"Pyar koi bol nahin..pyar awaaz nahin- Ek
Khamoshi hai..sunti hai ,kaha karti hai- na
Yeh bujti hai, na rukti hai-Na tehri hai kabhi.
Noor ki boond hai, sadiyon se baha karti hai"



Hemant Kumar's tune and BGM for the songs deserve mention too. The violins(?) simply tug at your heart's strings...and Lata's immaculate soulful rendition,too! It makes me cry and strangely enough I like it for that quality!
A wholesome(lyrics, music, and rendition) song.

Aaj ki raat from the same movie is another moving one. I'll be back with it.

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Wow! Thanks Raj for remind me again of those beautiful lyrics!

I have a doubt though. Ive always been thinking of the lines as

pyaar koi bOl nahin
pyaar awaaz nahin
Ek khamOshi hai sunti hai
kahI jaatI hai

Is it kahaa kartI hai or kahI jaatI hai
can anyone clarify?

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tum pukar lO is another of Hemant's unforgettable melodies from khaamOshi featuring a young Dharmendra who never shows his face through the movie.

It too has got very touching lyrics which I remember for having learnt the word muktasar, a complicated word to mean "uncomplicated".

hOntOn pE liyE huE
dil ki baat hum
jaagtE rahEngE aur
kitni raat hum
muktasar si baat hai
tumsE pyaar hai
tumhaaraa intezaar hai
tum pukaar lO

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My favourite song (not necessarily from the lyrics' point of view) from Khamoshi is "Vo shaam"
by Kishore. One of his best. I still melt every time I hear it. Will be back with the lyrics later. Don't remember all of it.

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Wow! Am I glad to see this thread. Bumped into it only today.

Talking of Hemant Kumar's creations,
in the same Khamoshi ,KK's "Woh shaam" is one of his very best. Good chorus arrangement too! My most favourite composition of Hemant's is "Kuch dil ne Kahaa, Kuch bhee nahin" by Lata for "Anupama". This is Lata at her sweetest and romantic best. The tune is just a killerand overalll a very sensitive composition. The same movie had songs like Lata's "Dheere Dheere machal Aye Dil-e-Bequaraar" and his own "Yaa dil ki suno duniyawalon". Who can forget his "Kahin deep jale kahin dil" and "Mera dil ye pukare aaja" , both in "Bees saal baad".There was another super Hemant-Lata duet (of course composed by Hemant himself) which goes like "Dekho woh chaand chupke kartha hai kya ishaare".

My other hot favourite HFM composers are SDB, Roshan (my favourite melody maker), Madan Mohan, C Ramachandra, Sajjad Hussain, Anil Biswas, Salilda and RC Boral-Punkaj Mullick. Naushad Ali too was great ,but at times found his melodies lacking that extra bit of emotional touch. SJ were never my favourite composers as their base melodies except for a few like "Rasik Balma", "Dil ki girah Khol do" , "Mujh ko apne gale lagaa lo" were very weak and they followed a formula. Most of their songs would have tunes only for 2 lines. In the sense, there would no strong anu-pallavi and the stanza would be a one-liner (tunewise) and would get repeated 4 or 5 times and then loop back to the pallavi. Their tunes were a bit too simplistic for them to be ranked along with the other greats though commercially they were tops along with OP Nayyar. I am just stating my opinions and hope I have not hurt the sentiments of fellow DFers. Some SDB favourites for Kaushik & Co . (Other than Guide)

Tandi hawayen by Lata. (naujavan)
Remember this was copied in Tamil as "Konjum puraave" sung by MLV.
Chaand phir nikla (Lata) (Paying Guest)
Yehi meri manzil (Lata) (House No 44)
Thum na Jane (Lata) (sazaa)
All songs of "Tere Ghar Ke Saamne".
and many more.

I loved his love-duets , so endearing
kora kaagaz thaa (aradhana)
aaj madhosh hua jaye re (Sharmilee)
Dekho Roota na karo (tere Ghar ke saamne)
Aye maine kasam lee (Tere mere sapne)

Would like to discuss Roshan, my all-time favourite in my future postings.

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This is wonderful Sriram! You have added a real lot of diversity to our discussion here, great!

tum na jaane and chaand phir niklaa are one of my all time favourites of Lata. A really very very young voice of Lata in these songs is extremely enchanting and the emotion she has put into these songs is unbeleivable!

Of course, my lyrics madness wouldnt go away and I do like the lyrics of these songs too...

tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE
hum bhari duniyaa mein tanhaa hO gayE

maut bhi aati nahin
aas bhi jaati nahin
dil kO yeh kyaa hO gayaa
kOyi shai bhaathi nahin

loot kar mEraa jahan
chhup gayE hO tum kahaan
tum kahaan tum kahaan tum kahaan...

tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE
hum bhari duniyaa mein tanhaa hO gayE

Ek jaan aur laakh gam
ghut kE rah jaayE na dam
aayO tumkO dEkh lein
doobtI nazrOn sE hum

loot kar mEraa jahan
chhup gayE hO tum kahaan
tum kahaan tum kahaan tum kahaan...

tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE
hum bhari duniyaa mein tanhaa hO gayE

tum na jaanE kis jahaan mein khO gayE

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chaand phir niklaa is probably one of the most difficult songs to sing among Lata's dard bharE solos along with rasik balmaa
The way she shoots to kadhee hoon main phir bhI at her kind of pitch is really phenomenal!

chaand phir niklaa
magar tum na aayE
jalaa phir mEraa dil
karoon kyaa main haayE...

chaand phir niklaa

yeh raat kahtI hai
woh din gayE tErE
yeh jaantaa hai dil
ke tum nahin mErE (2)

kahdee hoon main phir bhI
nigaahEn bichhaayE
main kyaa karon haayE
ke tum yaad aayE
(chaand phir niklaa)

sulaghtE seenE sE
dhuaan saa uthtaa hai
lO ab chalE aaoo
ke dam ghuttaa haai (2)

jalaa gayE tan kO
baahaarOn kE saayE
main kyaa karon hayE
ke tum yaad aayE
(chaand phir niklaa)

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bull, you seem to have an awesome memory. Kudos !!! The two songs you have given the lyrics for are simply superb. Talking about lyrics, I am reminded of the Madan-Mohan-Sahir classic in Haqeeqat, "Zaara see aahat hothi hai". What a tune and what a mood the song creates. The lyrics are also memorable. I remember the wordings of the second stanza only which in simple terms describes an occurence , but very poetically.
shaql phirthi hai nigahon mein wohi pyaari si
Meri nas-nas me machalne lagi chingari si
choo gayee jism mera kiske dhaaman ki hawa kahin yeh woh tho nahin....
Zara see aahat hothi hai tho yeh dil sochtha hai kahin yeh....
This expressive tune often gets me all choked up.
Talking of SDB, I can never forget "Raath akeli hai, bhujh gaye diye" from "Jewel Thief". This song has the gay abandon of youth in its pallavi , the charanam , passionate and then rises in its tempo with "jo Bhi chahe kahiye". Superb singing , superb BGM and a great tune. In fact ,SDB is supposed to have praised Asha's breath control openly in a function. Some more SDB favourites of mine,
Yeh thanhayee haye re haye (Tere Ghar ke saamne)
Ab tho hai tumse (Abhimaan) (Lata)
Piya bina (Abhiman) (Lata)
Dukhi man mere suno mera kehna (Funtoosh) (KK)
Apni to Ghar aah ek toofan hai (Kaala Baazar) Rafi
Khilthe hain gul yahaan (Sharmilee) (KK version) Megha Chaaye aadhi raath bairan ban gayee (Chupke Chupke ) (Lata)
Jayen to Jayen kahaan (Taxi Driver) (Talat) Bichde sabhi bare bare (Kagaz Ke Phoool (Rafi)
I have deliberately left out the songs of Guide. I think we should get deeper into the styles of these all time great MDs and singers like Rafi, Lata , KK etc. Will be back with more...

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I am interested in knowing this: Chand phir nikla and rasik balma have very similar first lines. Does anyone which came earlier?

Another point: Although Chand phir nikla is supposed to be a tragic song, I somehow weirdly feel its a happy tune(and its a great tune).

Didi anyone feel the same way?

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I am interested in knowing this: Chand phir nikla and rasik balma have very similar first lines. Does anyone know which came earlier?

Another point: Although Chand phir nikla is supposed to be a tragic song, I somehow weirdly feel its a happy tune(and its a great tune).

Didi anyone feel the same way?

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Kaushik : Could be either way. I have a feeling that "Rasik balma" came later because it features Nargis, doesnt it? And I remember "chaand phir niklaa" as being a rainy old film print. I may be wrong of course.

Sriram : Yes certainly that song featuring Priya Rajvansh is one of Lata's greatest... there is change of pace in this song which I makes me stop and rewind! Especially the very begining of the song when zaraa sI aahat is rendered very slowly, then there is a pause and then hOtI hai to pause ... yeh dil sOchtaa hai and then she picks up kaheen yeh woh to nahin with the rythm and the percussion starting. I have to rewind and listen to this part a few times before I proceed!

Talking of rewinding for the starting phase of the song I am reminded of Asha's qawwali number from saahib biwi aur ghulaam the one which goes saaquiaa aaj mujhE neend nahin aayEgi
The begining of this song is just fantastic! It is one of the songs sung in Asha's, what you call, gay-abandon-of-youth kind of mood and voice. Although she has sung many many songs in this kind of voice even counting upto zaraasaa jhUm loon main, this particular one sticks in atleast my memory.

When you talk of Asha's breath control it only reminds me of her caravan song with RDB ... piyaa tU ab to aajaa...

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Sriram : The patriotic number
kar chalE hum fidaa jan-O-tan saathiyOn
ab tumhaarE hawaalE vatan saathiyOn

isnt it from haqeeqat too? That would mean that the lyricist is Kaifi Azmi, wouldnt it?

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Paying Guest ..1955
Chori Chori ...1956

Unless Im mistaken.
Will check up and confirm tomorrow.

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bull,
You are right. It is Kaifi-Azmi. In fact, he was to Madan Mohan what Sahir was to Roshan and Shakeel Badayuni to Naushad Ali. "Haqeeqat" had another great number by Rafi, Talat, Mannadey and Bhupendar, "Hoke Majhboor mujhe usne bulaya hotha".

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Hi,

Isn't Rasik Balma.... song from Awaara? (unless I'm mistaken)

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From aawaaraa? No, I dont think so...
The dard bhari Lata song from aawaaraa is :

aajaaO tadaptE hain armaan
ab raat guzarnE waali hai
ab raat guzarnE waali hai

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Sriram, bull, et al, You guys have brought to memory some wonderful songs! Thanks. I have almost all of the songs on tape but haven't listened to them in a while - should correct that situation!

Anu - Rasik Balma is definitely from Chori-Chori.

Was listening to this song over the weekend.
One of Kishore's best. Simple, beautiful lyrics.
(Only remember one of the verses fully)

(Movie: safar, music Kalyanji Anandji, lyrics Anand Bakshi??)


jeevan se bhari teri aankhen
majboor karen jeene ke liye
saagar bhee taraste rahte hain
tere roop ka ras peene ke liye

tasveer banaaye kya koee
kya koee likhe tujhpe kavita
rangon, chandon mein samaayegee
kis tarah se itnee sundarata.
..

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Nalini,
That is a wonderful song. Some more KK "never-forgets".

Aa mohabbat ki basti basayenge ham
(music by Khemchand Prakash)
You will note how much KL Saigal has influenced KK . This was probably his 2nd or 3rd song.
O mere dil ke chain (Mere Jeevan Saathi) (RDB)
Ye SHaam mastani (Kati Patang) (RDB)
Kuch to log kahenge (amar prem) (RDB)
CHingari (-do-) (-do-)
Yeh kya hua (-do) (-do-)
Zindagi ke safar mein guzar jathe (Aap ki kasam) (RDB)
Diye jalthe hain (Namak Haram) (RDB)
Duniya O Duniya (Film? ) (SDB)
In Diye jalte hain , you will note how RDB has used the same metre as his father has , in "Duniya O Duniya" in the stanzas.
Sama hai suhaana suhaana (Kalyanji Anandji)
and many more. ...
You will note that all the above songs belong to the early seventies- Rajesh Khanna-RDB era.
How unfortunate was KK to get those disposable songs after RDB ceased to be the leading MD in Hindi.

bull, the qawwali you mentioned is one my favourites. Hemant kumar is truly a great composer. I am reminded of another Asha qawwali in "Dil hi to hai" composed by Roshan,"Nigahen milane ko jee chahtha hai", a super number. This movie had the Manna Dey classic "Laaga chunri mein daag chupaoon kaise" too. Talking of qawwalis, nothing to beat "Naa to Caravan ki talaash hai" from "Barsaat ki Raath" (Roshan) and "Phir tumhari yaad aaye aye sanam" ( Sung by Rafi and Mannadey) for the movie "Rustom Sohrab" (Composed by Sajjad Hussain).

[Oldposts]

Hi Nalini, bull

Thanks for the information. I guess I got confused with 'aajo thadapthe hai armaan' in Aawara with 'rasik balma' in Chori Chori.

Anu

[Oldposts]

You do bring the most wonderful songs to memory Sriram!
Back to lyrics. "duniyaa O duniyaa" has some of my favourite lines...

tErE zubaan pE hai
zikr sitaarOn kaa
tErE labOn pE hai
naam bahaarOn kaa

par tErE daaman mein
kaantEn hain gulaab nahin
duniyaa O duniyaa

and Nalini's mention of jIvan sE bhari ... reminds me of the title song of that movie ..

zindagi kO bahut pyaar hum nE diyaa
maut sE bhI muhabbat nibhaayEngE hum
rOtE-rOtE zamaanE mein aayE magar
hastE-hastE zamaanE sE jaayEngE hum
jaayEngE par kidhar? hai kisE yeh khabar?
kOyi samjhaa nahin, kOi jaanaa nahin

zindagI kaa safar hai yeh kaisaa safar?
kOyi samjhaa nahin, kOi jaanaa nahin

[Oldposts]

It turns out that I was half-right about Paying Guest and Chori Chori and it goes to prove how dangerous it is to be half-right..it turns out that
CC:1956
PG:1957..!

So, all of us were wrong..it is not S-J who looked to SDB for inspiration but (probably) the other way around, though we can always sweep it under the carpet:)

Ah..and Piya tu ab to aaja is from Teesri Manzil, not Caravan.

[Oldposts]

oh! Thanks for pointing that out Raj! Maybe I got confused because songs of both movies came in the same cassette or something like that :-))

[Oldposts]

Kaalai(Bull): What is "Something like that"?..:)
Actually, there is a similar song in CARAVAN.."Dilbar dil se pyare" , which was later recycled as "azhagu.." by deva. Only, it was sung by Lata!

[Oldposts]

na daali rahee naa kali
ajab gam ki aandhi chali
udi dhukh ki fool raahon mein
jaa rE yeh gali hai birhan kI
bahaarOn kE dEs jaa rE
yahaan kyaa hai mErE pyaarE
kE ujad gayi bagiyaa mErE man kI

jaa rE jaa rE ud jaarE panchi

[Oldposts]

Looking back at the talk about Madan Mohan, I remebered Jailor which has the Lata classic which is probably one of the typical Madan Mohan songs

hum pyaar mein jalnE waalOn kO
chain kahaan haai aaraam kahaan
hum pyaar mein jalnE waalOn kO

preet ki andhiyaari manzil mein
chaarOn oar siyaahi (2)
aadhi raah mein hi lut jaayE
is manzil kaa raahi
is manzil kaa raahi
kaantOn par chalnE waalOn kO
chain kahaan haai aaraam kahaan
hum pyaar mein jalnE waalOn kO

bahlaayE jab dil na bahlE
tO aisE bahlaayEn
gam hi tO hai pyaar kI daulat
yeh kehkar samjhaayEn
yeh kehkar samjhaayEn
apnaa man chhalnE waalOn kO
chain kahaan haai aaraam kahaan
hum pyaar mein jalnE waalOn kO

[Oldposts]

Hi Raj,

Are you sure, that Piya tu ab to aaja... is from Teesri Manzil. I am pretty sure that it is from Caravan..
I guess I am turning out to be the 'Doubting Thomas' of this thread.

[Oldposts]

Sriram : ONE MORE good number from Haqeeqat ...

khElO naa mErE dil sE
O mErE saajnaa O saajnaa O saajnaa

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Yes,Anu , I am quite sure. Still, one can probably interepret your statement as meaning you are pretty and you are sure?..if so, well, I can vouch for the inaccuracy of the latter atleast :)

[Oldposts]

idhukku pEr dhaan "loLLu"nnggaradhu! :-)))

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Hi guys,
"Piya too" is in Caravan. This had a classy folksy duet "Are O goriya kahaan tera desh re". RDB, SDB and Salilda were ofcourse the kings of folk with songs like
Chunri sambhaal gori (RDB)
Sun mere Bandhu re (SDB)
Zulmi sang aankh ladi (Salil)

bull, yes "Khelo na" is a great song. Some more Madan Mohan classics
Nainon me badhra chaaye
naina barse rimjhim
too Jahan jahan chalega
Wo Chup rahe
All the above by Lata
Phir wohi Shaam wohi gam wohi tanhayee (Talat)
Thujhe kya sunaoon mein dilruba (Rafi)
Do Ghadi ho to paas aa baite (Rafi - Lata)
O mayee re (Lata)
Bhaiyaan na daro (Lata)
Kaun aaya mere man ke dware (Manna Dey)
Teri Aankhon ke siva (Rafi-Lata)
Bhairan neend na aayo (Lata)
Tere paas aake mera waqt guzar jaatha hai
(Rafi - Asha)

I managed to unearth one of my hot favourite cassettes this morning. The cassette had songs like "Koi saagar dil ko behlaatha nahin" by the great Rafi (Dil diya dard liya) composed by Naushad , Kahe tarsaae jiya ra composed by Roshan first for a movie called "Bhairavi" produced by Lata herself. Both had shaded of Jaijaiwanti and what compositions!! The tunes are simply superb and very potent indeed.

[Oldposts]

Some of my Madan Mohan favourites (outside Sriram's list)

Main to Tum Sung (Man Mouji, Lata)
Aap ki Nazaron ne Samjha (Anpad, Lata)
Jo Hamne daastaan apni sunaee (Woh Kaun Thee, Lata)
Jiya Le gayo ji mora Saanvariya (Sanjog?, Lata)
Bhooli hui Yaadein (Sanjog, Mukesh)
Unko Ye Shikayat hai ke (Adalat, Lata)

Sriram, the last two songs you mentioned are also beautiful. But they sound like Kalavati to me?



riram, both songs mentioned in your last paragraph are beautiful ones. But they sound more like Kalavati to me.

[Oldposts]

oops! Sorry about the extra text that was hiding from me in my last posting.

[Oldposts]

oh God! this has become a hi-fi raagaa discussion already! Kalavati? Dwijaavanthi? uff!

The two of you really have listed wonderful stuff here though. Some of them are really rare songs

aap kyon royE... is one of Lata's greatest of course!
dO ghadi woh jo paas... is from Gateway of India, isnt it? Lovely song...

bhool kI unkaa humnasheen hOkE
rooyEngE dil kO umr bhar khO kE
haayE kyaa cheez thI lutaa baithE

dO ghadi woh jo paas aa baithE
hum zamaanE sE door jaa baithE

[Oldposts]

Anu: Forgot to mention:No Offence meant...:)

[Oldposts]

Hi Raj:

"Anu: Forgot to mention:No Offence meant...:)"

Not at all....:-)
But, are you convinced that Piya tu is from Caravan :-)

Anyway, has anyone heard the following song of Lata's :
Mitti se khelthe ho
Baar baar kis liye...

I don't have info. on movie or MD. But, an ultimately moving song. IMO

Also one of my favourites of Lata is
Har khushi ho wahan
Thu jahan bhi rahe
Zindagi ho wahan
Thu jahan bhi rahe...
This movie is from Upkaar *ing Manoj Kumar and Asha Parekh. MD is Kalyanji Anandji...(I think)
Comments??

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Anu: Cool, man:)..Well I have had occasion to rue in the past ..I mean, unwittingly trampling toes...and when I saw that ,like Bulls did , my statement could be interpreted as "lollu", i was a little concerned I had trampled on a toe again...great that you took it in the right spirit.Thanks.

And yes, I am convinced that Piya tu is from Teesri Manzil ,now that Sriram has pitched in my favour..you know, in TFMDF circles, when Sriram Lakshman vouches for a certain statistic, everyone is convinced that the last word on it has been said:)

[Oldposts]

Piya Tu is definitely from Caravan. Other songs from Caravan are:

Haiya Haiya Mein Kahan Fassee
Arjon Mile Hai Tho Bahon Ke Bahon Mein
Dilbar... ( Deva copied this song in Batsha )

[Oldposts]

Anu, Mitti Se Khelthe is from "Patita", music by Shankar-Jaikishan. Othere good songs in the movie are "andhe jahaan se andhe raasthe", "Yaad kiya dil ne kahaan ho tum" .

Nalini, maybe you are right. I will try confirming it tonight. All the songs you listed are classy.
Have you heard "tum jo mil gaye ho" sung by Rafi , composed by MM in "Hasthe Zakhm"? It is a very different kind of tune with superb base flute pieces "decorating" the song well. His duet (Talat and Lata) "Aye sanam aaj yeh kasam khaye" was copied in Tamil by SG (sung by SPB and PS) "Vaanavillil ezhu vaNNa kaatchi undu".There is another classy Lata number "Woh Bhooli dastan lo phir yaad aa gayee" that comes to mind.

Raj, Yenna saar kozhappareenga. Neenga thaane saar thappa sonneenga ? Appuram naa enge support paNNen ?

[Oldposts]

Uh, SL has pronounced it Caravan..How come I thought he had said TM ?:). Time to check my eyes, I suppose :)
That makes it three against one. But I believe I have it right this time..now,lets think, isn't Piya tu picturised on Helen? Who was the vamp in Caravan?..wait, wait,dont tell me ..let me guess..hmm.. who is that female with a rani on her name...rani mukherjee?...uh, no thats the Aamir Khandala female,right?....hey!there's a trophy in her name,help me ,know?
AH! Yes,I got it..Aruna Irani!
He(le)nce my contention!:)

Do you agree with me, anu ,SL and Bhoori?

[Oldposts]

Raj,
"Piya too" made waves in the early seventies whereas Teesri Manzil was released in the mid-sixties when Shammi kapoor was one of the box-office draws. Moreover, I saw both the movies. "UngaL naangu KaNNgaLai thirappinum kutram kutrame".

[Oldposts]

Hi Raj,

I guess you were thinking of
O hasina zulfon wali
Jaane kahan
Dondthe hain thirchi aankhen

This one is from Teesri Manzil and is picturised on Helen.

[Oldposts]

Can someone tell me the stats for the following song:

"Tu pyaar kaa sagar hai
Teri ik boond ke pyaase hum"

It stars Balraj Sahni and some kids. Great song!!

[Oldposts]

SR Kaushik,
The movie is "Lajwanti". MD Shankar Jaikishan, sung by Manna Dey and chorus. The song inspired by Salil Choudhry's "Toote hue Kwabon mein" , sung by Rafi in "Madhumathi"

[Oldposts]

SR Kaushik, Beautiful song. What I remember:

Movie: Seema
MD : Shankar-Jaikishen
Singer : Manna Dey and Chorus

Sriram, yes I love that duet by Talat and Lata - don't believe I have heard the Tamil version. The tune of "Tum jo mil gaye ho" is not coming to me right now. I've got to check my collection.

[Oldposts]

Another good song picturized on Balraj Sahani is the memorable song from Do Bheega Zameen. The song is:
Dharthi Kahe Pukarke...
xxxx bhichaale pyaar ke...
Mousam beetha jaay..
Anyone know if there are anyother good songs in this movie?
P.S. The tune of the above mentioned song was used as a signature tune in Nukkad (the famous 80's serial )

Thanks

[Oldposts]

SRK, Nalini is right about the movie name.

[Oldposts]

Sriram : You're talking about tum jO mil gayE hO (pause) to yeeeeeeeehhh lagtaa hai kE jahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnn
mil gayaa

right?

Can anyone tell me what movie this is from ?
aap yoon faaslOn sE guzartE rahE
dil sE kadmOn kI aawaaz aati rahi ...

[Oldposts]

There is onemore good song from Cravan, i dont know whether u guys missed it.
"Kitna pyaara vaada.."

[Oldposts]

CM, no, cannot forget this song.
bull, You are right.
Who has sung this song you are referring to ?
It certainly does ring a bell, but I am unable to place it.
Nalini, I did not get enough time last night to determine the raaga, returned home late from work. But it cannot be Kalavati because Kalavati uses R1 and there is no R1 is any of these songs.
Talking of Naushad and Roshan, some great songs....
Roshan
Main dil hoon ik armaan Bharaa - Talat
All songs of Taj Mahal
All songs of Barsaat Ki Raath
(remember Maine Shaayad tumhe pehle bhi kahin by Rafi)
Aapne yaad dilaya (Lata-Rafi)
Baharon ne mera chaman (Mukesh)
Laaga Chunri mein Daag (Manna Dey)
Duniya kare sawaal to hum (Lata)
Hum intezaar karenge (Rafi-Asha)
Nigahen Milane ko (Asha chorus)
Ab kya misaal doon (Rafi)
Caravan Guzar gaya mubar Dekthe rahe (Rafi)
and many more .....

Naushad
All songs of Baiju Bawra, Mughal -E- aazam
Dukh Bhare din beethe re Bhaiya (Chorus)
O Door ke musafir (Rafi)
(This movie Udan Khatola had one of the early horse-beat songs, Dil Ka payaam leja , a superb number)
His love-duets had a classical base intertwined with romance like
Do Sitaron ka zameen (Lata-Rafi)
Teri Husn ki kya taareef (Lata-Rafi)
Suhaani Raat Dhal Chuki (Rafi)
Tasveer Banaatha Hoon (Talat)
and many more to come.....

[Oldposts]

Raj: Piya Tu was picturized on Helen. Arjon mile he tho was picturized on Aruna Irani. Almost all other songs were picturized on Asha Parekh.

[Oldposts]

I love Roshan!
How about all the songs from Mamta? "Chupa lo yun dil mein pyaar mera" is my favourite. And Rafi's "Man re tu kaahe na dheer dhare" from Chitralekha?
By the way, Sriram, I don't believe Kalavati uses any R (SGPDnS, SnDPGS). I haven't studied the songs closely; I will try to confirm my guess too.

[Oldposts]

Nalini,
Actually , are you referring to Carnatic Kalavathi or Hindustani Kalavathi ? Hindustani Kalavathi is I think actually Malayamarutham of Carnatic which has R1. Will confirm soon.

Yes, Chupa lo is a killer. Mamta had "Rahe na rahe hum" by Lata which is again a super tune. Interestingly, Roshan admitted that the inspiration was SDB's "Tande Hawayen". Furthermore, "Tande.."'s metre was used by Madan Mohan in "Yehi hai tamanna tere ghar ke samne" sung by Rafi and "Sagar Kinare" from "Sagar" scored by RDB. Did the movie have "In baharon mein akele na phiro, raah me kaali ghata rok na le" sung by Rafi and Asha? I am sure the MD is Roshan. This song is very similar to "jo waada kiya woh" which was set to Pahaadi.

[Oldposts]

Sriram and Nalini, you people are really doing great here maaan! keep it going!
aap nE yaad dilaayaa to mujhE yaad aayaa is really a lovely one! Thanks for yaad dilaaying it! :-))

Sriram : aap yoon faaslOn sE guzartE rahE was sung by Lata.

Right now I am listening to songs from the film Howrah Bridge apart from Geeta Dutt's famous number mEraa naam chin-chin choo the other songs are all by Asha and boy has she done a great job or what!! Wonderful songs!

[Oldposts]

Talk about Roshan and here is a haunting song from Noor Jahan

raat ki mehafil sooni sooni
....
sehmE sehmE armaanon kaa
hOnaa hI thaa yeh anjaam

I dont remember the 2nd line very well...

[Oldposts]

"Tandi havaayen.." what a song! Wasn't this copied in Tamil as "Konjum Purave.."

Sriram, sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the Hindustani Kalavati (Carnatic equivalent: valachi). Didn't realise there was a Carnatic Kalavati. The Hindustani one's aaroh/avroh is SGPDnS/SnDPGS (G,D Shudh, N Komal in Hindustani terminology). I'm pretty sure about this :-) Another Kalavati based movie song is "mai ka piya bulave" from Sur Sangam (Hindi remake of Shakarabharanam).

Speaking of classically oriented HFM, Anuradha songs are beautiful (Music - Ravi Shankar) - Jane Kaise Sapnon mein kho gayee akhiyan, Haye re vo din kyoon na aaye, kaise din beete, Sanvare...I never get tired of listening to these.

bull, "chin chin choo.." is a fun song. I love Geeta Dutt. Some favourites: jane kya toone kahi, vaqt ne kiya, Piya aise, chale aao...

[Oldposts]

Nalini: I was refering to the Asha songs in the movie Howrah Bridge, however Geeta Dutt was a great singer ... you've mentioned wonderful songs too...

One of my favourites is tum jO huE mErE humsafar ...

About the song achchhaa jI main haari chalo maan jaaO naa... from kaalaa paani I think...

Was it by Geeta Dutt or was it by someone else?

[Oldposts]

yeah "thandi hawaayEn" was copied in thamiz as "konjum puraavE"

[Oldposts]

Konjum purave was sung by MLV in Tamil.
Nalini, thanks for the info.
bull, Asha has done a great job, esp. in "Aayea meherbaan". I have liked OP Nayyar too, though he overdid the horse-beat stuff (maybe the song situation demanded it). Asha under OP Nayyar's baton was delightful.
Chain se humko kabhi
Jayeea aapka kahaan
Aaankhon se jo uthri
Ye hai reshmi zulfon ka andhera
Chota saa baalma
More later...

[Oldposts]

Some more delightful songs by Asha Bhonsle under O.P.Nayyar's direction :

1. Oh leke pehla pehla pyaar
Bharke aankhon me khumaar...

from CID. Actally Shamshad Begum sang it too with Rafi.

2. Ishaaron ishaaron mein dil lene waale
from Kashmir ki Kali with Rafi.

3. Saathi haath badhana..
and other melodious songs from Nayaa Daur.

[Oldposts]

I just love the Asha/O.P.Nayyar combination. To add to Anu's and Sriram's wonderful list,

Akeli hoon main Piya aa
Divana hua badal (with Rafi) - one of my all-time favourites
Raathon ko chori chori
Haath Aaya hai (with M. Kapoor)
Aakhon hi aakhon mein ishaaraa ho gayaa (w/ Rafi)
Aap yoon hi agar hum se milte rahe (w/ Rafi).

bull, "achchaa ji main hari chalo" is by Asha.

[Oldposts]

Guess, OP Nayyar used KK sparingly, though the numbers I remember are all very good.
Meri neendon mein tum (with Shamshad Begum)
Ek Baar muskurado (with Asha)
Roop tera aisa (solo)
Piya piya piya (with Asha).
To the best of my knowledge he used the nasal-king Mooookesh only once
Chal Akela Chal Akela which was a good song backed by female chorus arrangement.
Obviously , his favourites were Rafi & Asha.

[Oldposts]

Guess, OP Nayyar used KK sparingly, though the numbers I remember are all very good.
Meri neendon mein tum (with Shamshad Begum)
Ek Baar muskurado (with Asha)
Roop tera aisa (solo)
Piya piya piya (with Asha).
To the best of my knowledge he used the nasal-king Mooookesh only once
Chal Akela Chal Akela which was a good song backed by female chorus arrangement.
Obviously , his favourites were Rafi & Asha.

[Oldposts]

mErE seenE mein bhi dil hai
hain mErE bhi kuchh armaan
mujhE patthar to na samjhO
main hoon aakhir ik insaan
raah mEri wahin
jismE duniyaa chali...

chaahE kOyi mujhE janglee kahE
kahnE do ji kahtaa rahE
hum pyaar ke toofaanOn mein ghirE hain
hum kyaa karEn

[Oldposts]

uff yeh nazar
uff yeh adaa
uff yeh nazar
uff yeh adaa
kaun na ab hOgaa fidaa
zulfen hain yaa badliyaan
aankhen hain yaa bijliyaan
jaanE kis kis kI aayEgi khazaa

yoon tO humnE laakh hasin dEkhE hain
tum saa nahin dEkhaa

[Oldposts]

Who is the female voice in
aajkal tErE-mErE pyaara kE charchE har zabaan par
sabkO maalum hai aur sabkO khabar hO gayi

?

[Oldposts]

bull,
The female singer is Suman Kalyanpur, often known as the poor man's Lata, a Shankar Jaikishan discovery.

[Oldposts]

I find it difficult to understand why Suman Kalyanpur did not get more opportunities. She was an excellent singer, IMO.

I think this had something to do with Lata and her alleged policy of discriminating against other talented singers.

[Oldposts]

SRK, yes, Suman Kalyanpur was a very good singer. Her problem was that she did not adopt a style of her own. She followed the path laid out by Lata, her style was very similar to Lata's.

This could be because the SJ duo had their period of misunderstanding with Lata and they needed somebody to step into her shoes. Even SDB tried her out ("Na tum hame jaano") , but not too often. Interestingly, there was supposed to have been an incident where Lata mistook Suman's voice for her's once and was flabbergasted as she had never such a song at all.

[Oldposts]

Some of OP Nayyar's best creations were
Man mora baawra (sung by Rafi for guess who...Kishore kumar in "Kalpana").
Too hai mera prem devta (Rafi and Manna Dey)
Naaznin bada rangin hai waada tera
(Rafi and Asha)
Humne to dil ko aapke kadmon mein rakh diya (Rafi and Asha , one of my favourites , I think from "mere sanam". The same movie had Rafi's "Tukde Hai mere" and ofcourse the classy "Pukartha Chalaa hoon mein").
I love the violin "intrusion" in this song. Beautifully positioned and the melody is simply superb , good "sangathis" by Rafi.

[Oldposts]

Personnally, never did much care for Suman Kalyanpur (especially in higher pitches). But she did o.k in "Ajhun na aayae baalma - saaven beeta jaye" with Rafi.

Sriram, the OP Nayyar songs you've listed are excellent. One more favourite of mine - Balma khulli havayen". According to rumours, after an unpleasant incident with Lata, O.P Nayyar swore he would achieve fame without Lata and stuck to Asha then onwards. Anyone remember a Lata song set to music by O.P Nayyar? Is there one?

[Oldposts]

Sorry - didn't mean to offend any Suman Kalyanpur fans. Just my opinion:-)

[Oldposts]

Nalini,
No , not a single song.
When queried about this, he diplomatically said that he Lata's spritual voice did not suit his peppy songs. I read an article written by Raju Bharatan on this issue. The gist of the story is ....
Roshan, one of Lata's favourite composers was unceremoniously thrown out from a movie by the producer much against the contract. Lata approached the MD's association header by Anil Biswas to sort out the issue. The stand the association later took was that no MD would sign up for the movie and that Roshan had to be reinstated. The hapless producer then approached OP Nayyar who was on the brink of poverty (OP Nayyar states that he did not have money to buy his baby a bottle of milk) . This, obviously being a boon in disguise, OPN accepted it but this resulted in some unsavoury episodes with stiff words being exchanged .Probably, this coupled with the fact that most of his earlier compositions went either to Shamshad Begum or Geeta Dutt would have worsened the situation.

[Oldposts]

aankhOn mein qayaamat kE kaajal
hOntOn pE gazab kI laali hai
bandaa parwar kahiyE kiskE
bandaa parwar kahiyE kiskE
taqdeer sanwarnE waali hai

[Oldposts]

VaNakkam Kavignyar KaaLai avargaLe,
That was sung by Mahendra Kapoor right ? A typical horse-beat OPN stuff. But one should commend him for the varied tunes he could compose set to the same beat without the slightest compromise on melody.

[Oldposts]

Never liked Mahendra Kapoor's voice although some of his songs like "beetE huE lamhOn ki kasakh aaj tO hOgi" are really good ones. And of course his most famous one is "mEri dEsh kI dharthI sona uglE uglE heerE mOti"

[Oldposts]

To me, MK was OK. I liked him very much in the song he sang with Manna Dey "Jisko nahin dekha hamne kabhi" (I hope I am right), it goes on futher like "Aye Maa, teri soorat se alag
Bhagwan ki soorat kya hogi". He infact overshadowed Manna Dey. I like his "Tum nacho ras barse" , very classical and ofcourse his "Navrang" songs composed by C Ramachandra and "Rafta Rafta" with Asha. An interesting tidbit about MK, he and Aarti Mukherjee were the winners of the Murphy singing competition and guess who were the judges ? Anil Biswas, Naushad, Madan Mohan , C Ramachandra etc.

[Oldposts]

recently i stumbled upon a 'lata sings for C.Ramachandra' casette.. it had some really melodious numbers (all from the 1940's) like
dil ki duniya etc..

i wonder if anyone even remembers that C.Ramachandra existed..

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My favourite C.Ramachandra song is "O chaand jahan tu jaye" sung by Lata and Asha (Sharada?). Of course who can forget songs from Sthree and Navrang.

Not much of a Mahendra Kapoor fan here either. Although he didn't do too badly in Navrang and OP Nayyar's "Haath aaya hai.." duet with Asha (one of Asha's best).

Sriram, thanks for that interesting tid-bit about Lata and OP Nayyar.

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Talking of C.Ramachandra, my favorites among those I have listened to are:

1. Ye zindagi usi ki hai - great tune

2. Zindagi pyaar ki do chaar ghadi hoti hai- again, great tune

3. Tum kyaa jano tumhaari yaad mein - orchestration was very good. He used a very Christian sounding instrument for the chords - I think it was the church organ or something like that.

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Nalini, you are welcome.
SRK , there are several other great numbers from "Anarkali".
Jaag Dard Ishq jaag (super!!!)
Mujh se math pooch mere ishq
Aaja ab to Aaja
Mohabbat aisi dhadkan hai (class!!!)

Talking of Mahendra Kapoor there was a very melodious number he sang for C Ramachandra, "Dil lagaakar hum yeh samjhe zindagi kya cheez hai". I have always loved "Taron ki zabaan par hai mohabbat ki kahaani" composed by CR, sung by Rafi and Lata in "Nausherwan-e-adil".His rock-n-roll songs were lively like "Eena meena deeka", "Gore gore", "Meri Jaan Meri jaan" etc. A very capable singer himself, he once "imitated" Talat in "Azad", "kitna haseen hai mausam kitna haseen safar hai". Yes, imitated because Dilip Kumar wanted Talat for this song but Talat did not arrive on time for the recording. Imagine , all the songs for "Azaad" with numbers like "Appalam Chappalam", "Radha na bole na bole", "Kitna haseen hai mausam" were composed and recorded within a week and sent to Coimbatore for the shooting. I think the film had around 8-9 songs.

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CR gave real cool numbers in "Albela", also a superb movie by Bhagwan (wonder how many remember him). "deewana parwana", "shola jo bhadke", "sham dhale khidki tale", "bholi soorat dil ke khote", are all golden evergreens. CR also sang very well in the name of Chitalkar. man, i love that guy! CR, Ravi, Salil were all terrific, but were overshadowed by SDB, Naushad and SJ. pity! btw, wasn't it CR who scored for "vanjikkOttai valiban", with "kaNNum kaNNum kalanthu" and "raaja magaL"?
dig: anyone likes ravindra jain? i think he was one of the guys who was really pathbreaking, without sacrificing melody. unfortunately, he is a forgotten man, with the industry having discarded 'music' for noise, and the common man also caring less.
even a guy like bappi lahiri, who gave many excellent songs in the beginning, switched to band-baaja and ultimately disappeared. wasted talent, i should say!

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Cram: Sure! I love some of Ravindra Jain's works, esp. "Chit chor" and "chashme baddoor" - they used to be based in classical and were great numbers. "Raam teri ganga maili" had some good songs too.

He also scored good music for "Ramayan", but I think by then, he had reached the twilight of his career.

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O my God! I somehow missed this thread so far. C. Ramachandra is my all time fvt and thanks to Nalini and Sriram Lakshman for nostalgicizing my memories. I too had heard the story of why CR imitated Talat in Azad.

He would use his first name Chithalkar as a singer and the full name CR when scoring music.Adding to the list:

1. Raj Tilak ( Vanchi kottai valiban in Tamil)
2. Paigham (Tamil version irumbu thirai did not have his music)

Was the judicious importer of Waltz, synmphonic orchestral music and Rock n roll. His improvisations of the raga Hamsad Dvani were unique.eg. o chand jaha to jaye ( I think in Sharada), Rang Dhere (Nav Rang)

CR had set a tone in FM which had influenced even some of the relatively moderm MD's including IR when he started( e.g. kizhakke pogum rail). Honestly no intenetion of dragging IR here for discussion or fight.

Sriram, Nalini et al, how abt SD Burman?
From Taxi Driver to Guide.

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Ramji, yes - SDB is one of my all time favourites. We went a round with our SDB faves a while ago. Please join in with yours.

I think I mentioned this before but any Anuradha (the movie) fans here? - music by Ravi Shankar. My favourite is "Jaane kaise sapnon mein kho gayi akhiyan".

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Yes, Nalini, that is a good song. What are the other songs in Anuradha?
I liked Ravi Shankar's "Haye re woh din kyoon na aaye" sung by Lata. Superb stuff !!!

As for Ravindra Jain, my favourite composition of his is "Dil mein tujhe bitake" sung by Lata in "Fakira". "Do panchi" sung by Aarti Mukherjee and Kishore, "Har haseen Cheez Ka main talabgaar hoon" ,"Ghunghroo ki taraah" by Kishore deserve special mention. Of course other good ones are Chitchor, Sunaina etc.

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Oops, missed out Saudagar. "Tera mera saath rahe" by Lata, "Sajna ke liya" by Asha are good songs too.

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Ramji, the Hamsadvani songs you have listed are superb. The tamil version of "Paigham" had SV Venkatraman's score. Remember the song "KaNNil kudiyirukkum". I do not like this song too much ,but you know, there was one Vyjynthimala in it. I will stop here before I am tempted to digress further.

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Can someone tell me who is the singer of the song "Akhiyon ke jharonko main" (film:??; *ing: Sachin, Ranjita).

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Sriram, yes - "haye re vo din" is another superb song from the movie. Others are "Sanvare, Sanvare" and "kaise din beete", all by Lata.

"Ghungaroo ki tarah" is an excellent song. Didn't realize that was by R. Jain. Speaking of the versatile Kishore Kumar, he was an excellent composer too, in my opinion. Wish he had composed a lot more than he did - "bekarar dil, tu gaye ja", "koi humdum na raha", "panchi hoon main" and "koi lauta de mere beete hue din" to name a few.

SRK, sorry, can't place the song you've mentioned.

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SRK , that was composed by R.Jain and sung by Hemlata.
Nalini, "Kaise din beete" is truly a wonderful song.
I have always admired KK's composing skills.
AA chalke tujhe main leke chaloon
Tandee hawa yeh chaandni suhaani
Mai hoon Jhum Jhum Jhum Jhum Jhumroo
(wonderful yodelling in this song)
are songs that stand as testimony to his composing skills. There was a song that was sung by Manna Dey for KK in "Door gagan ki chaon mein" and I do not remember the pallavi.The same movie had some of the songs you have mentioned.
Was "Hawaon pe likh do Hawaon ke naam" composed by KK or Hemant Kumar ? It had a wonderful song and well sung by KK too.

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Nalini:
I will need a separate thread to list my SDB fvts. Taxt Driver( the immortal Jaye to jaye
kaha(n)),Nau do gyarah,Pyasa, CID, Kagaz ke pool,Bandini, Sujatha( the inevitable Jalte
Hai(n) and the timeless Sun morE bandhurE),Guide, Teen Deviya(n),kala pani, kala
bazaar,Mr and Mrs 55, what was the movie? (Tandi havaye(n) by lata which was borrowed
in Tamil(konjum puravaE by MLV)

Sriram: I think Nenjil kudiyiruukkum is a good song based on Shanmugapriya. You will probably know this, SVV also scored one song in the tamil
version of Mugal E Azam - Akbar-"Azhakin Nila" based on kapi. Even though it faded a bit in
front of Bade gulam Ali Khan's song in the same scene in Hindi, it was good.

Sriram, Nalini etal,

I am crazy abt old Hindi songs but my drawback is that I can not remember the lyrics. This
is true even in Tamil. So I will look forward to your help with the lyrics.

Let us hope that soon we will have an audio HUB where we can post our fvt songs

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Ramji,
Mr and Mrs 55 had OP Nayyar scoring the music. You will note in the "Old responses" that all the songs that you have mentioned have been listed including "Tandee hawayen" which is "Naujawan".
I have not heard SVV's version in the Tamil remake (BTW who sang this song ? ) , but do love the hindi version "Jogan Ban Jaye" by Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. I think Naushad had to use all his persuasive powers to get him to sing in a film.
Nenjil kudiyirukkum starts with S.Priya and I think deviates to "Kalyani" in the second stanza.
Though we have listed a lot SDB's songs, we have forgotten "Tere bin sooni Nayan hamare" sung by Rafi and Lata in "Teri soorat meri aankhen". Rafi is superlative in this song. The other famous song in this movie apart from "Poocho na kaise" is "Naache man mora" by Rafi, a lively number. What about "Mast pawan ke panchi re " sung by Asha for SDB ? This is is folksy tune with a classical touch. Talking of classical songs , "Pawan diwani" in Dr.Vidya picturised on Vyjynthimala is a good song, Jhan JHan Jhan jhan paayal Bhaaje by Lata is another superb song.
Ramji, I am as bad as you are with respect to lyrics ,be it Tamil or Hindi. Bull and Nalini seem to have awesome memory and penchant for lyrics.

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Ramji, who composed the other songs in Akbar and what are they ?

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A great thing about SDB was his music never faded in quality - to the last day, he would come up with superlative numbers.

Some gems of his later days:
1. Sharmeelee: Megha chaaye, khilte hain gul yahaan.
2. Abhimaan: teri bindiya re, ab to hai tum se, tere mere milan ki yeh raina
3. A number of other Amitabh-Jaya Bhaduri starrers like Mili, Chupke Chupke, etc. In fact, even these films are among the most memorable.

All his songs had such a rich folk touch.

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Sriram:

Oops I goofed in a big way on Mr and Mrs55 considering that I have been an admirer of OPN also.

azhakin nila in Akbar was sung by RadhaJayalakshmi.All other songs were the same Naushad music with Tamil lyrics.

How could I forget "poocho na kaise"?

My memory of nejil kudiyirukkum is not vivid enough to remember the deviation to Kalyani.

Back to SDB, " thu kaha(n)" by Rafi in Tere Ghar ke saamne?

We can talk of these old songs for ever and still miss some gems. What a golden era!

Going still further back, will I be soliloquising if I talk abt KL Saigal?

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Has anybody heard "Ni sa Ga ma pa ni" by KJ - Salil combo ? Wonderful is just not the word to descirbe.

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SRK, Megha Chaaye is in "Chupke Chupke"
MS, that is a superb song. Infact that won the filmfare award for KJY in his debut year in HFM.I have heard him sing this song once in a kutcheri too.
Ramji, please go ahead and discuss KL Saigal. I could learn a few things as I have not had as much exposure in this area as I have with respect to artistes in the 50's and 60's era. I have some collection of KL Saigal songs like
1. Ek bangla bane nyaara
2. Do Naina matware (super)
3. Jadhoo hai main kya janoon (super)
4. Diya jalao jag mag
5. Baadal ka roop
6. Soja Raajkumari
7. Aye Dil-e-bequaraar jhoom
8. Babul mora naihar Chooto
9. Dukh ke ab din
10.Duniya rang rangeeli (with Punkuj Mullick)

and some more.
Except song #7 , which was composed by Naushad Ali for "Shahjahan" ,I think all the other songs were composed by the Punkaj Mullick-RC Boral combo. "Shahjahan" had the famous "Jab Dil hi toot gayaa". I would request you to discuss Pankaj Mullick (as a singer) and KC Dey too.

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Ramji,"Thoo kahaan" is in "Tere Ghar ke Saamne"
Other songs as far I can remember are
Dil ka banwar kare pukar
Main tanhayee haye re haye
Sun le thoo dil ki sadha
Ek ghar banaoonga
Dekho roota na karo.
Ramji, please discuss Anil Biswas also if possible.

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Sriram: Are you sure? I think Megha chaaye is picturised on Rakhee who doesn't act in chupke chupke. (BTW, I hope we are talking about the same song: this song goes "Megha chaaye aadhi raat pawan ...")

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Yes - "Ni sa ga ma pa ni" is an excellent song. Original version is in Bengali - beautifully sung by a female Bengali singer whose name escapes me now.

I love Saigal too. 2,3,6 and 8 are my favourites from Sriram's list. And all the songs from Tere Ghar ke Samne - what a collection!
Sriram, Megha Chaye is from Sharmeelee. Perhaps you are thinking of "chupke chupke chal ri phurvaiya", a nice song from Chupke Chupke which sounds similar in places.

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SRK,Nalini, touche`. Sorry for the mess-up. You are right.
Nalini , the Chupke Chupke song you mentioned triggerred off memories of another song with the some common words in the Pallavi, "Sun re pawan" from "Anuraag", another song from the SDB-Lata combo.

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SRK, Sriram if this is the song you are discussing....

mEghaa chaayE aadhi raat
bairan ban gayi nindiyaa
bataa dE main kyaa karoon

it is surely from the film sharmili and yes it is picturised on Rakhee who does a double role in the movie.
beautiful song too...

sabkE aanggan diyaa jalE rE
mOrE aanggan jiyaa
hawaa laagE shool jaisi
taanaa maarE chunriyaa
aayi hai aansoo ki baaraat
bairan ban gayi nindiyaa...
bataa dE main kyaa karoon
mEghaa chaayE aadhi raat
bairan ban gayi nindiyaa

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bull: Bingo, that's the song.

Its excellently sung by Lata, esp the line "bataa de main kyaa karoon". She brings out a lot of emotion in that line.

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Megha chaye triggered my memory of another of my all time SDB Kishore fvt, Kaise Kahoo(n) mai(N) in Sharmeeli ( based on Tilang - the same raga was well used in sampoorna ramayanam - "inru pOi naaLai varAi"

I still treasure five pre-recorded cassettes that I bought in a Delhi shop some twenty years ago- contain 100 songs of KLS.

Not exposed enough to Pankaj Mallik,Dey and Biswas.

Sriram,Nalini, Do you remember a C.H Atma ?

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Ramji, "Kaise kahe hum, pyar ne humko
kya kya Khel dikhaye" . Is this the song ? I had almost forgotten it. SDB used Tilang well in
"Tere mere milan ki yeh raina" in Abhimaan, well masked.

Anil Biswas is a class composer with songs like
Seene mein sulagthe hai armaan (Talat and Lata) (Brilliant)
Beimaan thore nainvaa (lata)
intezar aur abhi (Lata)
Aye Dil mujhe aisee jagah le chal (Talat)
He was one of the first MDs to call Rafi a mediocre singer. He preferred Talat most of the time.

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Sriram:

Yes, the song in Sharmeeli goes"Kaise Kahe hum..." , see, this is what I said abt my poor lyric association.

Is "tere mere milan ..." based on Tilang however well-masked? My goodness! Nalini, what do you say?

O God! Talat!

If I had been into astronomy, I would study the planetary positions during the era when so many greats were on earth at the same time creating and spreading music. Look at the list:

MDs: Naushad,SDB,Madan Mohan,Roshan,C Ramachandra,OPNayyar,Salil Chaudhry,Vasanth Desai, Jaidev,......

Singers: Rafi,Kishore, Manna Dey, Lata, Asha,Talat, ......

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Hi Sriram / Ramji / Nalini:
I am Bala from New Delhi, very fresh to this Site.
I happen to see you here as I am also fond of old Hindi Songs (with no other option).
I shall start posting messages once I get reply from you.
Take Care
Bala

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How much raagaa similarity is there between
tErE mErE milan kI yeh rainaa

and
tEri bindiyaa rE ... from the same movie?

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Not too familiar with C.H Atma's and Anil Biswas's works although some songs listed by Sriram do ring a bell.

Yes, I have always detected traces of Tilang in "Tere Mere Milan" from Abhiman but due to it's deviation from Tilang's "chalan", and heavier usage of some notes (R,D), I was not convinced that it is pure Tilang. Sriram, are you sure it is? The composers take a lot more liberty with Raagas in movie songs, so sometimes the Raag becomes really well masked or almost unrecognizable. Of course, they always throw the blanket term "misra " over them!
Some other songs largely based on Tilang are - "Sajan sang kaahe" (Lata in Main nashe mein hoon) and "chota sa baalma" (Asha in Raagini) - both excellent songs!

Ramji, yes, the list from that era is so great. Consider myself very lucky to have been exposed to the music from that era.

bull, off-hand I am not sure what Raag Teri Bindiya Re is. The beginning sounds somewhat like KJY's "Kahaan se aaye Badra" (not the tune, the raag) which is Madhmaad Sarang. I'll try to find out, unless someone else can shed some light on this.

Bala, welcome! Please do join in the fun.

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"Kahaan se aaye badara" (BTW, what does badara mean?) is one of my favorites. Sweet song, sweet movie.

Can anyone tell me who the singer of that song is (female singer)?

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Kaushik: its Hemlata.

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There's a lata solo in "safar". I like it as much as "Humne dekhi .." in khamoshi. But how does it go..?

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SRK, badraa = clouds

Raj, is it "Hum the jinke sahare" ?

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Nalini: Thanks.Precisely...great lyrics, one of the few K-A songs I like:)
Safar was K-A's best,IMO. Though that might be because of my ignorance of better works by them. WHat is that song with Nutan in it..mukesh solo..ther's a lata version,too. Too little info, but anyone to crack it?:). I guess the word chand creeps up somewhere ..wait, I got it..chandan sa badan . Another song from the same movie goes like "pyaar hi sab kucch nahin " or something to that effect. Liekd that one for the lyrics
Bull might help, I suppose. Or he mightn't..considering his love for songs that extol pyar's virtues rather than vices:)
And I like "Saaz-e-dil ko chedke..",too.
Didnt like "pal pal dil ke paas", though. Ditto for "O saathi re.."

So much for K-A. Will take up cudgels for S-J sometime:)

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That song from Saraswati Chandra goes
"Chod de saari duniya kisi ke liye- yeh
Mun hafiz nahin aadmi ke liye- pyar se
Bhi Zaroori kayi kaam hai- pyar
Sab kucch nahin zindagi ke liye"

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Raj how did you conclude such a characteristic in me? :-))))

ok here is something for you :
tan bhi sundar man bhi sundar
too sundartaa kI moorat hai
kis aur kO shaayad kam hOgi
mujhE tEri bahut zaroorat hai
pahlE bhi bahut main tarsaa hoon
too aur na mujhkO tarsaanaa...

chandan saa badan ...

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Ok RAJ, here is a sad song for you. The one you mentioned too ... from safar...

hum thE jinkE sahaarE
woh huE naa hamaarE
doobi jab dil kI nayya
saamnE thE kinaarE
(hum thE jinke sahaarE)

kyaa muhabbat ke vaadE
kyaa wafaa kE iraadE
rEt kI hain diwaarEn
jO bhi chaahE giraa dE
jO bhi chaahE giraa dE
(hum thE jinkE sahaarE)

hai sabhI kuchh jahaan mein
dOsti hai wafaa hai
apni yeh kamanaseebI
humkO naa kuchh bhI milaa hai
hamkO naa kuchh bhI milaa hai
(ham the jinake sahaare)

yoon tO duniyaa basEgI
tanhaaI phir bhii dhasEgI
jO zindagI mein kamI thI
woh kamee to rahEgI
woh kamee to rahegI
(hum thE jinke sahaarE)

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Bull: Just observation and inference:)

See what happened: You didnt post the lyrics of "Chod de saari duniya..":)
If mine is a misconception, this is your chance to disprove it (by posting lyrics of Chod de sari duniya..):)

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Bull: Greaaat! Though that was one song I knew by-heart and could have recited backwards, if asked to do so after being woken up in the midst of a sound sleep :). Nevertheless, thanks for the effort!

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Nalini & Ramji, No it is not pure Tilang. I just felt that he based the song on the Raag. Infact you have both "Nishadams" in the song. "Kaise kahe hum" (atlease the pallavi) seems to be pure Tilang.
Nalini, I was going through a list of Hindustani Raags with their Carnatic counterparts yesterday.Kalavati is mentioned to be Carnatic Malayamarutham which is against what you had mentioned. The idea is not to confront you, but
I could do with some inputs from you and Ramji as I have not undergone training of any kind in music. If you find this digressive, please do feel free to E-mail me.

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Sriram, I am glad you brought up the Carnatic Vs Hindustani raagas. I too have run into a couple of websites that list Malayamarutham and Kalavati as the being the same. What I know in Hindustani music is a drop in the ocean and even less in Carnatic! But the reason I was so sure is that I am pretty familiar with Kalavati's notes and Malayamarutham's don't match them. Not sure why that is listed as it's equivalent. However, the following website - artindia.webindia.com/nithya.htm - does list Valachi as the counterpart of Kalavati. And if you were to go strictly by Valachi's notes, they do match Kalavati's. Please do let us have your input too. I am by no means an expert. And I don't mind this digression - I love to discuss raagas and songs. But apologies to others if they find this too digressive and yes, if anyone objects, we could take this off-line.

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Raj : I give up here, 'cos I really dont know the lyrics :-)))

Sriram and Nalini, you people are certainly improving my 1/100th of a drop from the ocean, so please continue your discussions.

Here is another K-A song. This from the film mahal, Kishore for Devanand and Asha for Asha...


yeh duniyaa waalE poochhEngE
mulaaqaat huI kyaa baat huI
yeh baat kisIsE naa kehanaa
yeh duniyaa waale poochhEngE

yeh baat agar koI poochhE
kyon nain tErE jhuk jaatE hain
tum kehanaa inkii aadat hai
yeh nain yoon hI sharamaatE hain
tum logon sE yeh naa kehanaa
saanwariyaa sE laage nainaa
saanwariyaa sE laage nainaa

main to yeh raaz chhupaa loongi
tum kaisE dil ko sambhaalOgE
dil kyaa tum to deewaaroon pE
mErI tasveer banaa logE
dekhO yeh kaam nahin karnaa
mujhko badanaam nahin karnaa
mujhko badanaam nahin karnaa
yeh duniyaa waalE poochhEngE

yeh poochhEngE woh kaun hai jO
chupaakE sapanoon mein aataa hai
yeh poochhEngE woh kaun hai jO
mErE dil kO tadapaataa hai
tum mEraa naam nahin lEnaa
sar pe ilzaam nahin lEnaa
sar pe ilzaam nahin lEnaa
yeh duniyaa waale poochhEngE

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bull:

if this a drop in the ocean, what I know about lyrics is a desert.

What a song! Anyway, how can a SDBKishore|Asha combo go wrong?

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Sriram:

Don't rely on me too much for help with ragas especially in Hindustani. I listen to music more through my heart.

As for Hindi film music, I owe a lot to the olden golden days of Hamid Sayani's Binaca Geet Mala when nothing in the world could distract me away from the radio between 8 and 9 p.m.

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> I listen to music more through my heart

Absolutely Ramji! Is there any other way? :-)

bull - thanks for reminding us of "yeh duniyaa vaale poochenge" - excellent song!

bull, Raj - don't remember the entire lyrics for "chod de sari duniya", but here's another good one by Mukesh from the same movie:


pyaar teraa paanE ko
hum ne apnaa sab kuch chOdaa
chOd diYaa kyoon pyaar ne tErE
dar dar bhatkaanE ko

vo aansoo jo beh nahin paayE
vo baaten jo keh nahin paayE
dil mein chupaayE phirtE hain hum
ghut kar mar jaanE ko

uski rahE tu jiskI ho-lI
tujhko mubaarak pyaar ki dolI
bait gayE hum ghum ki chitaa par
zinda jal jaanE ko

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A digression:

Nalini: I certainly think there are other ways of listening to music.

1. Dance oriented: Here rhythm appreciation is key and it doesn't involve much of the heart, IMO.

2. Intellectual: Beyond a certain point, I think its possible to appreciate compositions for the difficulty of composition and other such aspects rather than how much heart-warming the composition is. For example, IMO, appreciation of WCM is more along these lines.

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SRK:

Ofcourse there are other ways of listening to music.

There are times when you become one with the music and in my case it has happened with WCM also. Music is much greater than the sum of its parts.

Your point is well taken, though.

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Nalini, thanks for the info. I was referring to book called "Ragapravaham" which had the comparison list. I was (mis)lead by it. "Koyi saagar " and "Kahe Tarsaye" sounded so much similar to the TK Ramamoorthy classic "Vasantha Kaalam Varumo" by P Susheela. TKR ofcourse deviates after "Vagai Perugi Varumo".
Ramji,Nalini,bull, no wonder your tastes match mine. SRK, I am still learning the art of listening to music.
Ramji, the song bull mentioned was a K-A creation. The good songs of K-A have already been listed. Personally , did not think very highly of K-A or L-P. Some songs of K-A that come to mind
Sama hai suhaana suhaana (KK)
Yeh Sama (Lata)
Neend Na mujhko Aaye (Hemant,Lata)
Akele Hain CHale Aao (Rafi)
Pardesiyon Se na Akhiyaan (Rafi,Lata)

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Sriram:

O No! I had misread K-A as Kishore Asha combo and thought "Yeh duniya WalE pUchEngE" as SDB' s creation. To that extent, I must give credit to K-A eventhough I do not rate them very high( far better than LP though).

Here is a question:

Were either of or both K-A and Jaidev assistant(s) to SDB before they went on their own?

You said you are learning the art of listening to music. Here I can not resist digressing. IMO, when you perfect that art, you will probably find youself back to listening through your heart - the way you started except that you may be at a higher level of consciousness. ( No Chopra stuff :-))) )

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Ramji: Jaidev certainly was. Dont know about K-A, though, unless you are refering to Kishore-Asha, in which case the answer is no, unless again, you discount their contribution with their vocals as 'assistance' :-))). Share your appraisal of K(alyanji)-A(nandji) and L-P, anyway .
Weren't "Pardesiyon se na.." and "Yeh sama " in "Jab Jab Fool Khile"?
Nalini: That song from Saraswati Chandra was a revelation to me. How did I miss it?:). Thanks for posting the lyrics.
Wasnt Upkaar(Kasme vaade pyar wafa sab...) K-A, too. And isn't "Deewanon se yeh mat pooncho..." from Upkaar?

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SriramL: Why do you think listening from the heart is lesser than other forms of appreciation? Indeed, IMO, its the most sincere and spontaneous.

All I was trying to say is that there are other forms of appreciation also.

Ok, now back to the topic.

K-A were assistants of SJ. And LP were assistants of K-A

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SRK ,no I did not mean that. I myself am a totally spontaneous listener.I was just in agreement with your earlier posting. Perhaps, some songs that I have rejected may become endearing for reasons other than its capacity to capture one's heart.
Sorry, if I have bored you all.
Ramji, K-A were assistants to Hemant Kumar first. I read somewhere that the "Magudi" piece in "Man dole mera than dole" was played by Kalyanji when he assisting Hemant Kumar. L-P have been assistants to practically all MDs from S-J , Madan Mohan, Roshan to K-A etc. They were assisting K-A even after their first release "Parasmani".
Jaidev was SDB's assistant . Probably, that was how he gained access to Dev Anand and finally ended up scoring the music for "Hum Dono" which had his magnum opus "Allah Tero Naam".
Ramji, J.Krishnamoorthy padippeengaLa ?

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Bull: This song is from Shankar Hussain w/ music by Khaiyyam.
aap yoon faaslOn sE guzartE rahE
dil sE kadmOn kI aawaaz aati rahi ...

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Sriram, Raj and SRK:

Thanks for clearing my vague memory on Jaidev and K-A.

Can not believe that LP were assistants to all those stalwarts.( apologies to LP lovers.)

Sriram,

Yes I have been reading JK for the last so many years. When I was in Madras many years ago, I used to attend his talks every year. I hope to understand him fully at some point in my life. " Choiceless awareness" is what has stuck in my mind.

Sorry for digressing. We could probably discuss JK in balaji's philosophy thread.

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Ramji: While on books(Digression=Digression+1), are you the Wodehouse fan RamjiRC?
BTW, Why cant u believe L-P were assistants to stalwarts?Probably , thats the reason for their good scores...NO, No, No offence meant at all:)). But what are these..the good scores of L-P?Let me try...

Milan comes to mind first. It was one of my earliest favourites in HFM..much before I got to know the ' real good' ones of SDB, Salilda et al. The only song from Milan that still strikes at my emotional chords is "Ram Kare aisa ho jaaye..". Brilliant rendering by Mukesh, who, though limited in range, had this ability to pitch straight into the vulnerable portions of ypur heart:). "Saawan ka mahina" ,too, passes muster . "Mubarak ho sabko .." used to be a favourite.But no longer. The rest are washouts now for me and it is hard for me to believe that ten years ago, I would have maintained that this movie ranks among top ten in HFM :)

Shor and Ek pyar ka nagma hai follow almost immediately. Still love it, which is not what I can say of "Patththar ke sanam", though even that used to be a favourite.
And that song from another ManojKumar flick,I dont seem to remember..it involved a heavily made up Saira Banu, which was a dampener ,ofcourse. Still the song used to be favourite. Strange I cant even remember it now. Ah! Yes it is "Koi jab tumhara hriday tod de..". Was it L-P at all?

And ,ofcourse, Bobby... total washout now, but hardcore favourite once. That about sums up good scores of L-P that I know. Never can rank them high in the galaxy of stars that HFM has produced , however.

As for K-A, wasn't Kora Kaagaz K-A, too? And then all those Qurbani's (YEEEEK..:( ).

One grouse I have against you guys is that you guys have pretty much exhausted all the top composers...SDB, Salilda, Roshan, MM,...I am forced to discuss K-A and L-P :)

What about Chitragupta? Nowhere in the league of the giants , and nowhere as successful as L-P and K-A, either. Can remember only one movie off-hand..."Ganga Ki lehren". None too memorable. And he has another negative contribution to HFM...Anand-Milind!:)
Same goes for Sardar Malik..you know what/who he contributed to HFM:). Vaguely remember one " Haan deewana hoonmain" by him.

What about Ram Ganguly? What?Never heard of him? Well, his place in HFM history is that he was the first MD for RajKapoor . For Aag. Which had that memorable "Zinda hoon is tarah .."(Bull, do you know the lyrics of this song..if you don't, time you did. I remember a couple of lines - " Yeh chand, yeh hawa , yeh fida sab hai maal-a-mal;Jab tu nahin to in mein koi dil kashi nahin"..sorry for the mutilated words..never was good at Urdu:)). One of the reasons why I am a theevira Mukesh fan is that this was the first song I heard of him. And another intersting news about Aag is that I happened to see it in DD..and guess what did I hear in the Title music...strains of "Manitha, Manitha.." !! And before I proceed, let me statutorily ban any one of you from passing on this information to TFM-DF. This is strictly for this thread only:)

So much for the unsung ones. I guess there is still Salilda , who has not been dissected here. Will be back with him unless SL finishes him off too:)

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And any one remembers Sudha Malhotra? Apparently, the first Woman MD in Indian FM history. I remember one Mukesh-Sudha Malhotra duet. Bull, I think you'l like the lyrics... I am producing it here...sorry if you dont think it is great. I have always loved it. And sorry again if I mutilate words...


" Tum mujhe bhool bhi jaao..Tho
Yeh haq hai tujhko -meri baat
Aur hai- maine to mohabbat ki hai.

Mere dil ki..mere jasbaaat ki Keemat kya hai
Uljhe uljhe se khayalat ke keemat kya hai- Maine
Kyon Pyar kiya -Tumne na kyon Pyar kiya -In
Pareeshaan savalaat ke keemat kya hai
Tum jo yeh bhi na batao -tho yeh haq hai tumko
Meri baat aur hai -maine to mohabbat ki hai.


Dont rememebr what:)
^
|
Tum ko duniya ki gham-o-.|.. se phursat na sahi
Sab ki ulfat sahi..mujhse hi mohabbat na sahi..
Mein tumhari hi rahi...yeh mere liye kya kam hai
Tum mere hoke raho..yeh mere kismat na sahi..
Aur bhi dil ko jalaao tho yeh haq....




What I like about it is Sudha's expression.She has , rather had, a sweet voice and crtainly was very expressive.. in this song, for instance the nuance she brought to "Meri baat aur hai- maine to mohabbat ki hai"...you could feel the wistful, resigned sigh in it. A snippet is that she composed this song herself even though the records show N.Dutta as the composer. Apparently, he had a tiff or something with the producer and she stepped in. And she certainly did a fabulous job giving a wistful tune . Later he made up with the producer and his name was credited with the movie's music. Not sure about the story though. Bottomline is perhaps she was the earliest victim of "Mangeshkar Monopoly", goes the grapevine. I certainly see more merit in this than the corresponding one for Suman Kalyanpur. This lady malhotra certainly had it in her. (And no, she is not related to me in any way..my praise is genuine:))

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yeah very impressive lyrics indeed. I very vaguely remember the name Sudha Malhotra...


zindaa hoon is tarah ke gam-e-zindagi nahin
jaltaa huaa diyaa hoon magar rOshni nahin
(zindaa hoon is ...)

do muddatEn huyin hain kisIsE judaa huE
lEkin yeh dil ki aag abhI tak bujhI nahIn
(zindaa hoon is ...)

aanE ko aa chukaa thaa kinaaraa bhii saamnE
khud uskE paas merI hi nayyaa gayi nahin
(zindaa hoon is ...)

hOthOn ke paas aaye hasin, kyaa majaal hai
dil kaa muaamalaa hai koyi dillagi nahin
(zindaa hoon is ...)

yeh chaand yeh hawaa yeh fizaa, sab hai maal-a-maal
jO tU nahIn to inse bhI koyI dilakashI nahin
(zindaa hoon is ...)

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Bull: Do you know the lyricist? I think it is Behzad Lucknavi..Why is it that we never heard much of either Behzad or Ram Ganguly subsequently? Burnt out?

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Raj, Sudha was a composer too. That's news.Yes, I agree with you, her expressions were superb in "Tum mujhe bhool bhi jaao". Unfortunately, the same thing could not be said about Mukesh in that song (sorry Mukesh fans).
Sardar Mullick composed "Saranga teri yaad", a good song. Chitragupt , I think was given too many of those "B" grade movies like
King Kong etc. In the movie you mentioned, "Chedo na meri zulfen" by KK and Lata was a good song. He was the MD for "Main Chup rahoongi"."Koi batade dil ha jahaan" was a good duet. I think he composed "Laagi Choote Naa" and "Teri duniya se door chale hoke majboor" , both sung by Lata and Rafi.
Ramji, I will E-mail you.

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SL. I suppose this "Teri duniya se.." is different from the Kishore Kumar "Teri Duniya se.."? from that Parikshit Sahni Movie.

Hey! If K-A and L-P merit discussion, how come we never thought of R.D.Burman. Maybe ,we associate him too closely with the hip-hop trendy waltzies of the seventies?
Wasn't Amar Prem one gem of a score? "Raina beethi jaaye"..is one unforgettable, haunting Lata Solo. Bada Natkat hai is equally entrancing, too. And "Doli mein bithaye .." is, I think SDB's best vocal effort. Not to forget those three Kishore Classics..."Yeh Kya Hua..", "Kuch to log kahenge" and "Chingaari koi bhadke".
Ofcourse there are other wonderful albums, notably Kati Patang. But Amar Prem is my RDB Favourite.

BTW, Isnt "Parichay" one classic by K-A( "Musafir hoon yaaron" and "Beete na bithaye Raina").

And has Madan Mohan been flogged here? One song I remember that didnt figure here surely was "Jis din se maine tumko dekha hai" from that movie where Amitabh played Villain and Navin Nischol the hero.

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SRK, interesting point about the art of listening to music. I suppose each one has his/her own unique (inherrent or acquired) approach to it.

bull, wow! beautiful lyrics for "Zinda Hoon". Thanks.

Raj, don't get me started on Salil Chowdhary :-) - he is one of my favourites. Also love some older songs of RDB. Yes - Amar Prem was a gold mine.
Will be back with favourites later...

Sriram, agree with you on Chitragupt - the ones you've listed are not bad though.

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Raj - Parichay is by RDB.

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Nalini: You are right! I meant RDB! I dont know how K-A crept into it when my intentionwas to discuss RDB, which was what brought Parichay into the discussion in the first place:)
And Salilda, yes, I am resisting an urge to start on him myself, for precisely the same reason as yours. An interesting snippet here could be that it is widely believed that ILayaraaja worked with him as assistant sometime in the seventies. And I thought his late-seventies' songs in Kannada have a Salil-tocuh to them. If you have heard "Pallavi Anu Pallavi" and "Maathu Thapppadha Maga" , you would know what I mean.(Appada, ingeyum Raja peyarai puguthiyaachu... did anyone think I can keep off Raja for a long time in any thread? :))

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Raj, no I was referring to the Lata-Rafi Duet. The song you have mentioned is from "Pavithra Paapi". The MD is a relatively unknown guy.

RDB is certainly fit to be rated with all the other all time greats of HFM. When the call was for a melody, he provided it with none of the LP drag in the tunes. My favourites are
All Amar Prem songs with Raina beeth Jaye
at the top
Raath Kali ek kwaab mein Aaye
Most Asha-Kishore duets including Jaa Ne Jaa
from Jawani Diwani
All songs from Ghar , Aandhi
Ek Ajnabee Haseena Se
Aane wala phal Jaane wala hai
All songs from Kati patang except the Holi song
Aaja piya tohe pyaar doon
Chunri Sambhaal gori
Do Nainon mein Aaanso Bhare hain
Bechaara dil kya kare
O Majhi re apna kinara
Tere liye palkhon ki
Diye jalte hain
Beethi na bithayee raina
All songs of Parichay
Sapna mera toot gaya
Diwana leke aaya hai
O mere dil ke chain
and oh! so many more. Will continue later with the list.

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Talking about K-A, my favorite is "O saathi re" from Muqaddar ka sikandar. As for LP, I think one of their better numbers is "So gaya yeh jahan" from Tezaab.

Raj: We could discuss Khayyam's music. Among his numbers, I like Kabhi Kabhi mere dil me: An "inspired" version of this came in Tamil: "Oru vanavil pole" sung by Jayanchandran. I also like "Hazaar rahen" (film ??) sung by Kishore and Lata.

RDB: I think RDB's best numbers were with Lata. Also, the Gulzar-RDB combo was a great one: Tujhse naaraaz nahin zindagi: "Masoom"; excellent song, excellent movie, O Majhi re: film ??, etc.

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SL: The movies along with the songs please. Let me try :
1. Beethi na bithaye...PARICHAY?
2.O mere dil ke chain..MERE JEEVAN SATHI
3.Diye jalte hain...NAMAK AHRAAM
4. Aaja piya and Chunri sambhal- Shammi-Asha pa(b)reak(h)..is it some sapne
5.Raat khali..what a song! Isnt it heerapanna?
6.Aane waala pal...GOLMAAL

And I remembered Rajnigandha by salil..man , that "Rajnigandha fool(why do I alaays run into trouble with this word?) tumhare"...I am clean bowled lock, stock and barrel. For sheer sweet melody , yet complex tunes, I think nobody can beat Salilda. Just like " Sweet and Simple" is a SDB speciality! And that mukesh solo...I thought Mukesh was excellent in that...ofcourse, that would immeditely link you to "Choti si baat" and "Na jaane kyon", and "Yeh din kya aaye", anotehr Mukesh magic.

And Anand! Well,well, I cant be posting all night,c an I? More later!

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Khayyam , yes, SRK, a favourite of mine, once a hot favourite. But I somehow felt later that he lacked versatility. Strictly IMO(though ofcourse I have always felt this phrase is unnecesary because when I post it, it is bound to be MO:)).

Ofcourse, Kabhie Kabhie was his magnum-opus. Think he'll be remebered for it. Talking of KK, "Mein Pal do pal ka shayar hoon" had great lyrics, I felt. Another calling for bull:)

I remember another (not-so)popular effort of Khayyam..a Raj-Kapoor movie Phir subah hogi which had this "Aasmaan pe hai khuda" which inspired "Pattu Paadava".."Budhiyulla manidharelam" and even S-J's "Kisi ki muskurahaton..". And later "Paraivagal Palavidham". The movie had the unforgettable "Woh subah kabbhie to aayegi"(Lyrics:THE GREAT Sahir..sahir-khayyam was a top notch combination) and a couple of melodious duets 'Aap yun hi agar humse milte rahe, dekhiye ek din pyar ho jaayega" and the other one I dont remember.
And incidentally, I really dont like "O saathi re..'.Dont know why. Reminds me of SPB's over-expressive songs:)(Apologies to SpB fans ,mainly rajaG...if he happens to unfortunately come here:)

Another popular song of K-A that strieks a discordant note (now, this is a more diplomatic way of putting things:)) is "Pal Pal Dil ke paas".

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Raj,
Yenna sontha Ooru Tanjore thane..Sema kindal ponga... Thanks for providing me the opportunity to correct you againg..."App yoon hi agar" is composed by OP Nayyar for "Ek musafir Ek Haseena". But I have to agree with you on Khayyam. He was a very good composer capable of versaility but got stuck in the Ghazal slot in the 80's and that was it. Some of my favourites are
Jane Kyaa Doondthi rehthi hain (Rafi..I run out of words to describe his singing)
Baharon mera jeevan bhi savaro (Lata)
Jeeth hi lenge Baazi Hum tum (Lata Rafi)
Tehriye Hosh me aaloon (Rafi and ?)
(watch out for Rafi in this, he is at his romantic best, expressions of gentle loving persuasion are all there!!)
Phoool Barsate huye (Lata , KK)
will be back with some more...
SRK, "O Majhi re" is in "Khushboo". "Hazar rahen" is in "Thodi si bewafayee".

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SL: Sorry Cauvery-kkum namakkum romba dooram. Namma sangam-valartha madurai mann anne:)

Yes, "Aap yun hi agar " is not Phir subah hogi. Gosh!How many mistakes I am going to make tonight!There is a song with similar lyrics in PSH . Cant remember now:(

Which movie is (another one for you, Bull!)
"Mile na fool(Gosh! This word again!) to
Kaaton se dosti kar li"?

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wow! what a flurry of postings today!

Raj - are you thinking of "phir na kije" from Phir Subha Hogi (Mukesh/Asha) - one of my favourites of Khayyam.

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Nalini: That doesnt still ring a bell. Could you post more lines from "Phir na keje"? I remember it goes something like a dialogue.."suno, kaho.." somethinG like that.

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I think it is
"Dekhiye..aap ne phir pyaar se dekha humko"

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That's the one. Same as "phir na kije" - different lines from the same song.

The beginning as I remember:

M: phir na keeje mEri gustaak nigaahon ka gilaa
dekhiyE aap ne phir pyaar se dekhaa mujhko
A: Main kahaan tak ye nigaahon ko palatnE dEti
aap ke dil ne ka_i baar pukaaro mujhko

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Nalini: Thanks. Now, how about transalation?:)))

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Raj:

"Aasmaan pe hai khuda" etc you mentioned were all inspired by the then popular music from "Come September".

tanjavur- aanaa enna, maduraiyAna enna, thamizh maNNilErundhu ivvaLuvu Hindi music paRRa? Bharathiyar irundhA santhoshappatiruppAr.

Yes Raj, I am your PGW buddy!

Sriram, I will look forward to your email.

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Raj - not sure if you were serious about the translation - but I'll give it a shot later :-))

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Oh Great to see this! Lots of postings and finally the topic on KK songs too! Glad this started.

raatkali ik khwaab mein aayi is from the thriller-comedy buddhaa mil gayaa, with Om Prakash, Navin Nishchol and Devan Verma. Lovely song indeed. And the song aayO kahan sE ghan shaam... (was it Manna Dey?) after every murder is just too good.

raatkali ik khwaab mein aayi
aur galE kaa haar hui
subah kO jab hum neend sE jaagE
aankh unhi sE chaar hui
(raatkali ...)

chaahE kahO isE
mEri muhabbat
chaahE hasIn mein udaa dO
yeh kyaa huaa mujhE
mujhkO khabar nahin
hO sakE, tum hI bataa dO

tumnE kadam jO rakhkhaa zameen par
sInE mein kyon jhankaar hui..
(raatkali ...)

yoon tO haseenOn kE
mahazabeenOn kE
hOtE hain rOz nazaarE
par unhE dEkhkE
dEkhaa hai jab tumhE
tum lagE aur bhi pyaarE

baahOn mein lE loon aisi tamannaa
Ek nahin kayin baar hui
(raatkali ...)

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M: phir na keeje mEri gustaak nigaahon ka gilaa
dekhiyE aap ne phir pyaar se dekhaa mujhko
A: Main kahaan tak ye nigaahon ko palatnE dEti
aap ke dil ne ka_i baar pukaaro mujhko

Translation :

M : Do not complaint again at my transgressive/criminal/mischevious eyes
It is you who looked at me with love this time.
A: Why would I let these eyes turn (to look at you)
It is your heart which called out to me many times...

Thats a horrible translation but I cant find a better one. The full impact of the beautiful language can never be translated! :-((

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OK here is what you asked for ...

main pal dO pal kaa shaayar hoon
pal dO pal mEri kahaani hai
pal dO pal mEri hasti hai
pal dO pal mEri jawaani hai
main pal dO pal kaa shaayar hoon ...

mujhsE pehalE kitnE shaayar
aayE aur aakar chalE gayE
kuchh aahEn bharkar laut gayE
kuchh nagmE gaakar chalE gayE

woh bhi ik pal kaa kissaa thE
main bhi ik pal kaa kissaa hoon
kal tumsE judaa hO jaaoongaa
tO aaj tumhaaraa hissaa hoon
(main pal dO pal ...)

kal aur aayEgE nagmOn ki
khilti kaliyaan chunnE waalE
mujhsE behatar kahnE waalE
tumsE behtar sunnE waalE

kal kOyi mujhkO yaad karE
kyOn kOyi mujhkO yaad karE
masroof zamaanaa mErE liyE
kyOn waqt apnaa barbaad karE
(main pal dO pal ...)

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Among the hundreds of songs mentioned yesterday O maajhi rE... and hazaar raahEn... (from the film thOdi sI bEwafaayi) are so beautifully typically Gulzar. Great words.

saahilOn mein beharahE hain
kayIn kinaarE tootE huE
raastOn mein mil gayE hain
kayin sahaarE chhootE huE
kOyi kinaaraa majhdhaarE mein milE woh
apnaa kinaaraa hai

O maajhi rE... apnaa kinaaraa
nadiyaa kI dhaaraa hai...

and

jaahaan sE tum mOd mud gayE thE
woh mOd ab bhi wahin padE hain
hum apnE pairOn pE jaanE kitnE
bhanwar lapEtE huE khadE hain

badi wafaa sE nibhaayi tum nE
hamaarI thOdIsi bEwafaayI

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oh and about that Rajnigandhaa song! Wow! What rendering!

she starts of softly saying
rajnigandhaa fool tumhaarE...

and then the shrill part
mErE anuraagi man mein

Takes my breath away. Everytime.

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I see bull beat me to the translation. Good job, bull! You're right, so much gets lost in the translation. The reason I was a little hesistant :-)

To add to the list of RDB's songs, one of my favourites is from his first movie: ghar aaja ghir aaye badraa saanvariya (by Lata). Songs from Teesri Manzil are also great - oh mere sona re, tumne agar dekha ho kar meherbaan, etc. Saavan ke jhoole fron Jurmana is a good one too. How about Padosan - Kahnaa hai (KK), Sharm aati hai (Lata).

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Bull: Triple cheers! That was sleazy transalation, indeed. Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it. How about this:

M:Complain not about mine wavering eyes-
Thine enticing glances Invited mine.

F: Where did I dare let my eyes waver- 'Tis
Thine heart that allured time and again.

I know that sounds more like a concocted rhyme. Still thought might as well record my version:)

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Bull: About Rajnigandha, Yes thats really magical humming and then the crescendo at "mere anuragi man mein". Full credit to Salilda and Lata- one of those occasions when you dont really complain about the "Mangeshkar Monopoly"

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hmm thats a good attempt at making it poetic Raj, but it looses more meaning this way. Probably the best fitting word for "gustaaqi" is "transgression" but that sounds so unpoetic!

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Some more of RDB:
1. Meree bhigi bhigi si:Anamika
2. tere bina zindagi, is mod se jaaten hain, tum aa gaye ho noor aa gaya hai: Aandhi
3. gum hai kisi ke yaad mein: ?? (*ing Randhir Kapoor and Babitha)
4. musafir hoon yaaron: Parichay . There's another song from Parichay that I'm unable to recollect. It was sung by Bhupinder and Lata (in the film, by Sanjeev Kumar and Jaya Bhaduri)
5. aane wala pal jaane wala hai: Golmaal

I wonder why Bhupinder is not being used nowadays. He's sung some memorable songs.

Even Jagjit Singh came up with some good numbers for films. What comes up immediately to mind is the song "Mera geet amar kar do" from ?? starring Raj Babbar.

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Raj,

Ennappa Shakesphere kaalaththila irukka ? :-))

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SRK : I think you are talking about this song

gum hai kisi kE pyaar mein
dil subah shaam
par tumhE likh nahin paaoon
main uskaa naam
haai raam...

isnt that so ?

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And it is from Rampur ka Laxman. And isnt the song from Parichay "Beeti na bithaye Raina..."?
Whose was Mausam... Madan Mohan?

Dil dhoondtha hai phir wohi
Phursat ke Raat din
Baithe Rahe Tasavvur-e-jaana kiye hue.

...... ki narm dhoop aur
Anagan mein letkar
Aankhon se neEnd bHar teRe
Daman ....


Bull, complete and transalate:)))
(I got the pallavi ,okay, including the meaning. The first charanam is also okay, though I dont remember it wholly. Still, I would like to have a proper transalation.)

And "Ruke Ruke se kadam..Ruk ke baar baar chale.."
(Could you transalate this in relation to the situation in the movie? )

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Velaiyathavare: Ingeyum vandhutteengala? Ippa vavathu neenga unga title-ai enakku pass on panni thaan aaga vendum. Enn endraal I am proving my credentials more than you in this direction these days:))

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Naam gum jaayega Chehraa yeh badal jaayega
Meri awaaz hi pehchaan hai- (a)gar yaad rahe

Waqt ke sItam kAm hAseEn nAhIn
Aaj hai yahaan kal kahin nahin..
................. mil gaye kahin


...


Bull, another exercise:)

And why does she say "Awaaz hi pehchaan hai". Doesnt voice change over the years, though not as much as face. What is the inner meaning of "Naam...rahe" anyway?

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Raj : I should confess that much as I admire him, Gulzar does go over my head sometimes (read : 'many a time') :-))

Dil dhoondtha hai phir wohi ...
is a very long song with some 6 stanzas I think. It describes liesurely times in all seasons actually and so I always find it difficult to remember what he does in which season. Should make an effort I suppose :-))
But it is probably one of Gullu's very best!

dil dhoondtaa hai phir wahi
fursat kE raat din
baithE rahE tassavur-e-jaanaa kiyE hue...

The heart searches for those liesurely days and nights again as I just sit here dreaming about life...

Is that right? or is there something else to it? I know that tasavvur is dream or imagination...

hmmm maybe Nalini can help out.

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I remember having seen mausam when I was very little, so I really cant remember what the situation is regarding rukE rukE sE kadam... in the movie, but the song itself does talk a little about the situation...

rukE rukE sE kadam
rukkE baar baar chalE
qaraar dEkE tErE dar sE bEqaraar chalE
rukE rukE sE kadam

subah na aayE kayIn baar nInd sE jaagE
ki Ek raat kI yeh zindagI guzaar chalE

Hesitant footsteps, they stop and start repeatedly.
I pacified you but left your doorstep unconsoled.

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Bull: :))
I, too,love Gulzar. But its instinctive. Honestly, I nevre felt Hindi/Urdu was beautiful until I heard Gulzar. Though most of the time I dont understand the lyrics, I can instinctively feel the emotions he is trying to convey. I know four stanzas in Dil Dhoondtha hai..six? I just remembered the second :



Ya garmiyon ki raat ho..
Purvaiyya chale..


There I go again... the rest of the sytanza seems to have evaporated from my mind:))
What about Ruke Ruke se kadam and Naam gum jaayega?

[Oldposts]

one of Gulzarsaab's best (alngwith panchamda, of course) is "phir wohi raat hai" from ghar. really haunting number.

[Oldposts]

one of Gulzarsaab's best (alongwith panchamda, of course) is "phir wohi raat hai" from ghar. really haunting number.

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Raj: Ah! That song from kinaaraa is a real evergreen!

If you consider the situation in the movie, Dharam has died in a car accident and Hema is reminded of the song he sung when she goes back to the ruins of the fort where they met. Now Jeetendra (is it Jeetendra or is it Farooq Sheik???) meets Hema in the same ruins and learns this song from her and sings with her. He is different, the name is different and the face is different but the voice (the inner voice, the thoughts, ideas, etc.) is the same. But she fails to recognise this in the begining.

Probably this is what is meant by
naam gum jaayEgaa
chaharaa yeh badal jaayEgaa
mEri aawaaz hI pehchaan hai
gar yaad rahE

waqt kE sitam kam hasIn nahin
aaj hain yahaan kal kahin nahin
waqt sE parE agar mil gayE kahin
mEri aawaaz hI pehchaan hai
gar yaad rahE

The mischeifs of Time do not lack in beauty
One is here today and nowhere tomorrow
But inspite of Time, if we manage to meet somewhere,
My voice is the factor of recognition
If you remember it...

But this, I suppose, only vaguely explains it...

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Bull: Wow! If there is more to it than you have explained so beautifully, I guess only Gulzar can tell. I didnt know about the movie basically. A far-cry from "always-remembering-the-gone-partner" kind of cliches, indeed. THANKS, Bull.

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Raj : There is one more lovely song in the same movie,

jaanE kyaa sOchkar nahin guzraa
ik pal raat bhar nahin guzraa

Anyone knows full lyrics of this song? I remember this ...

dO ghadi jeenE ki muhabbat to milI hai sabkO
tum bhi gar saath dO ghadi bhar to yeh kam hOtaa hai
ik ghadi kaa safar nahin guzraa
(jaanE kyaa sOch kar...)

[Oldposts]

ahhhhhhh! Where did that word creep in from??

It should be
dO ghadi jeenE ki moholat to milI hai sabkO

sorry for that!

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Bull: Naan dhaan munnadiye observe panninenae..that word is your favourite..perhaps, always it is running in the background..:)))

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Bull: Yes that's the song I was referring to.

Raj: Mausam is Madanmohan indeed.

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Bull: Yes that's the song I was referring to.

Raj: Mausam is by Madanmohan indeed.

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Here is a nice interview with the legend.
See Lata Mangeshkar's interview on :
http://www.rediff.co.in/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/;execmacro/music_content.d2w/report?fname=2503lata.htm (http://www.rediff.co.in/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/;execmacro/music_content.d2w/report?fname=2503lata.htm
)

We were talking about this particular incident sometime back, so Im reproducing here an extract from the interview...

Who else did you get into fights with, apart from Shankar-Jaikishan? People say O P Nayyar had a fight with you and never let you sing any of his songs?

Oh no, I never had a fight with O P Nayyar.

But everyone believes you did....

These are all malicious rumours. Nayyarsaab was always very courtly with me. I used to like his music a lot.

But somehow I always felt the type of songs he created were better suited to Asha or Geeta Dutt. I used to think so then and continue to think so today.

Why did you never sing for him?

No, they were different types of songs, in a style which was not suited to my voice. Once, I remember, I had a recording with him and I fell ill and had to cancel it.

Even after that he (Nayyar) called me and I didn't go. But we never had a fight. I mean, he used to ring me and rib me -- he used to say "I've heard that you hear a tune on the telephone and you can reproduce it faultlessly. A music director sounds a key on the harmonium and you know what the song is, but this won't happen with me. I'm a tougher cookie. If you want to sing for me, you'll have to rehearse the song countless times."

So basically, he used to joke and kid with me.

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Nice interview but obviously she has concealed the "uncomfortable" portion of their relationship. There was a cassette I had seen some years back titled "Lata in her own voice" which is certainly a collector's item. She covers all the singers and the MDs she worked with ,shedding light on the composing/singing styles too.
Guys, how did we forget "Rim jhim gire saawan sulag sulag jaaye man" by RDB ?

Ramji, never found the time, Ellam paazhappona velai. Oh! the travails of a software pro, this cruel world which forces us to work for a living.
BTW where do you live in the US ? I stay at N.Virginia.

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Does anybody know "Nadhiyaan kinare ke "( not the one from Aradhana) by LM ? IT has this humming "Oho oho Oho oho" by the chorus ? any idea of the film ?

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There is one "Nadiyan kinarae" in Abhimaan? But I dont remember any chorus in it. OTOH, I dont rememebr any Nadiyaan kinaare in Aradhana:((...:))

MS: Sorry Im only providing more confusion?

[Oldposts]

Sriram:

That is wonderful!. I live in Greenbelt, Maryland. Will email u.

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You guys might want to try the ITRANS site to access the lyrics for most of the songs discussed here. I'm assuming y'all are aware of rec.music.indian.misc.

% ITRANS Song #837
%
startsong
stitle{jaane kyaa sochakar nahii.n gujaraa}%
film{Kinara}%
starring{Jeetendra, Hema Malini, Dharmendra}%
singer{Kishore}%
music{R.D. Burman}%
lyrics{Gulzar}%
%
% Contributor:
% Transliterator: Shripad Lale (lale@cent.gud.siemens.co.at)
% Credits: Sandeep C. Patwardhan (scp@shack.csci.csc.com)
% Satish Subramanian (subraman@cs.umn.edu)
% Preetham Gopalaswamy (preetham@src.umd.edu)
% Editor:
%
printtitle
#indian
%
(jaane kyaa sochakar nahii.n guzaraa
ik pal raat bhar nahii.n guzaraa ) - 2

apanii tanahaaI kaa auro.n se naa shikavaa karanaa - 2
tum akele hI nahii.n ho sabhii akele hai.n
ye akelaa safar nahii.n guzaraa
jaane kyaa sochakar nahii.n guzaraa
ik pal raat bhar nahii.n guzaraa

do gha.Dii jiine kii mohalat to milii hai sabako - 2
tum bhii mil jaao gha.Dii bhar to ye Gam hotaa hai
is gha.Dii kA safar nahii.n guzaraa
jaane kyaa sochakar nahii.n guzaraa
ik pal raat bhar nahii.n guzaraa
%
#endindian
endsong
%
%

[Oldposts]

Hi

Me new to this thread - I'm fan of HFM - but handicapped by the inability to understand quite a number of words that either are in chaste hindi or have their origin in Urdu. Hence this question....

Can some please "Reference to Context" the term "chaar" in the lyrics

raatkali ik khwaab mein aayi
aur galE kaa haar hui
subah kO jab hum neend sE jaagE
aankh unhi sE chaar hui

I have many more such queries - but they will follow later.

Thanking you people in anticipation

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***trying to get in - door doesn't open
st.peter asks "tell me one line of lyrics in a good hindi song, i will let u in this thread".
i am stumped, think hard for 15 minutes and then exclaim "eureka".
the lyrics i came up with is
" mein thO rastE sE jaa rahaa thaa ..." ***

guess i don't have much to contribute to this bullish thread, but have some pointers:
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/ (http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/
)
http://www.unm.edu/~khisar/kk.html (http://www.unm.edu/~khisar/kk.html
)
http://chandra.astro.indiana.edu/isongs/

[Oldposts]

also this:
http://members.tripod.com/~noshir007/ (http://members.tripod.com/~noshir007/
)

BTW, is some guru willing to discuss 'na tun hame na jaano..'which i remember only for hemant kumar?? or is it already discussed?

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Raj,

I am sorry, abhimaan became aradhana - once again my lac of knowledge in film names.:-)) what I wanted to stress is that I am NOT talking of that popular number but a more melodious and mostly unheard number of Lata...

[Oldposts]

My typos are carrying me too far. Lack became lac here and I remember Anandha bhairavi becoming "anadha" bhairavi (orphaned ?) in Raga thread.... Wish I could rectify it :-(

[Oldposts]

msiddarth, "kisIsE aakhEn chaar hOna" means to meet someone's glances (in a romantic way) - two pairs of eyes meeting.

bb_peeping_in_and_going_out - andar aaiye ji :-)
No guru here but what did you want to discuss about "na tum hamen jaano". I know it was sung by Hemant Kumar and Suman Kalyanpur (separate versions) in "Baat ek raat ki" - music by SDB. Nice song.

MS - can you give us more clues on the Lata song? I am curious now.

[Oldposts]

yeh mausam yeh raat chhup hai
yeh hOntOn ki baat chhup hai
khamOshi sunaanE lagi hai daastaan
nazar ban gayI hai dil kI zubaan

na tum hamE jaanO

good lyrics!

BTW, thanks for those links! Atleast one of them seems to be having a good storage of lyrics.

[Oldposts]

mohabbat ke mOd pe hum
milE sabko chhOdke hum
dhadakte dilkOn ka leke
yeh kaarvaan
chale aaj dhoonde
jaane kahaan

na tum hamen jaano....
what a classic song!

[Oldposts]

pls read dilkon as dilon

[Oldposts]

Nalini,

need some time to recollect a few more lines :-(

[Oldposts]

Nalini,

need some time to recollect a few more lines :-(

[Oldposts]

another good site:
http://www.geocities.com/~sm0e/sami.html (http://www.geocities.com/~sm0e/sami.html
)

[Oldposts]

Can someone give a description of the songs of "Gambler"? I remember that the music was very good, but unfortunately don't recollect the songs themselves.

[Oldposts]

1. Mera man tera pyaasa...lilting Rafi solo, describing his longing for a companion, of whom he(Dev) has some imagination. The picturisation is lousy, however.Dev has a draped, ghoonghated Coat stand to which he addresses the song.Presumably, this stand is his surrogate for the to-be-mate:))
2. Choori nahin yeh mera..Kishore..bouncy tune. Wouldnt write home about it. Passable, nevertheless.

3. Dil aaj shayar hai...soulful but perhaps a bit loud(now, is that a contradiction?:)). Kishore at his best, anyway.

And a couple of other songs...another kishore melancholia and a duet, which is the best of the album but I dont remembere:(:)

[Oldposts]

raj,
do u remember who the heroine was? gawd, how could devsaab ditch waheeda for this one?

[Oldposts]

cram, zeenat amman.

[Oldposts]

or aman? (ennavO kaaLi amman maadhiri irukku:-) )

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Guys, we have forgotten one MD, namely Ravi, now called Bombay Ravi in MFM.Cannot put him in the same league as CRamachandra or Roshan but there are several compositions of his that are outstanding and stand as testimonies to his creative skills. I will start with a list of his memorable numbers that spring to mind immediately.
All Waqt numbers, my most favourite being
Aage Bhi Jaane na do
Chaudhvin Ka Chaand
Ye Waadhiyaan Ye phizayen
Sow baar jama lenge
Tujh ko pukare mer pyaar

More later.

[Oldposts]

Sau baar janam lenge is from ustadon ke ustad. Remade in tamil as Vallavanukku Vallavan with probably the first tamil qawwali: paaradi kanne thangam paithiyamaanathu nenjam (TMS & Seerkaazhi for Asokan and Manohar). The original was Milte hi nazar tumse... Kannadasan at his best in translating the lyrics. Also sau baar janam lenge and the tamil version:
nooru murai piranthaalum, nooru murai iranthaalum unai pirinthu oru naalum naan irunthathillai,
ondraana ullam...(an exact translation of the original's pallavi) and then starts off with Oraayiram paarvaiyilE un paarvaiyai naan ariven un kaaladi OsaiyilE un kaathalai naan arivEn...

BTW, should this go to a different thread? If there's interest I'll post a quiz on hindi-tamil music that was copied from one language to the other.

[Oldposts]

zeena amman illai ammanam...:)

[Oldposts]

The heroine of Gambler is Zaheeda, who I think appeared in Prem Pujari too as the second heroine.

[Oldposts]

Can we begin discussing some great orchestral efforts in old HFM. I am not aware of that many. Can someone who listened to enough old HFm enlighten us?

[Oldposts]

Shankar-Jaikishen were pastmasters , I guess at this

[Oldposts]

Some of the songs I can think of are
Hai Hai Hai Yeh nigahen (SDB)- Paying Guest.
The song starts with a feel of WC when Kishore puts accross the lines "Shamma Jalthi hai Jale". Good chord progressions too.

Dil Ki Girah Khol Do (SJ) - Raat Aur Din
This had the typical SJ style of orchestration, the waltz beat ,giving the "parade" effect. This had become a common feature in most of their songs of the late 60's and early 70's. SJ have wonderfully mixed tabla with Western percussion instruments in the stanzas.Try listening to some of their other compositions like "Bhawre ki Gunjan Hai mera dil" (movie ?) sung by KK and "Geet gaatha hoon main" (kal Aaj uar jal) sung by KK again. Another song with similar , waltz beat,grand arrangement was "Too Bemisal hai , Teri tareef kya karoon" sung by Rafi.

Sajnaa Barkha bahaar Aaye - Salil - Parakh
A wonderful fusion stuff by Salil in the sixties. The base melody has its expected ups and downs and hidden surprises like most other Salil compositions. Watch the wonderful chord progressions for a purely raaga based song.

Raath Akeli Hai - SDB - Jewel Thief
The arrangement was not all that grand, atleast in terms of number of violins etc, and rightly so. Those were the days when RDB was assisting his father. Listen to this song and you know RDB has composed the BGM scores with accent on African Congos.

All songs in Teesri Manzil, composed by RDB. IR has gone on record stating that TM has always been a source of inspiration.

Mera Naam chinchinchoo in "Howrah Bridge", composed by OP Nayyar. I am not a great fan of this song, but for a movie released in the fifties and WC being a novel concept , the bass score was good. I am sure the origin for the bass score lies elsewhere. Salil used it for his Pallavi in
"Aankhon mein tum dil me tum ho" in "Half Ticket" and IR used it as a guitar piece in the prelude music for "Ram pam aarambam".

[Oldposts]

SL: "Bhanwre ke gunjan hai mera geet(not dil)" is also in KAUK. Geet gata hoon main is not KAUK, I think. I would aslo add Jaane Kahan gaye woh din, which has a mesmerising prelude.