IR's Western Classical Based Compositions

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Topic started by Dorai (doraip@manulogics.com) (@ 216.217.47.130) on Wed Dec 13 15:24:30 EST 2000.


I am interested in collecting all the different styles of Western Classical Music that Isai Gnani Illayaraja has used so far.

I request all the knowledgeable TFM folks here to contribute their knowledge about the different styles of WC that IR has used and also list the songs.

I will start with some songs like
'Sundari Kannal Oru Sethi'
'Aaananda Ragam Ketkum Kaalam' - Panneer Puzhpangal
'Envaaniley Orevennila' - Jaani

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'Sundari Kannal Oru Sethi' - From Thalapathi, I was told that it resembles Wagnerian Style a lot.

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http://tfmpage.com/forum/13154.17.54.59.html (http://tfmpage.com/forum/13154.17.54.59.html
)
this might help you.

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'etho mogam' from Kozhi Koovuthu is a wonderful example of baroque style improvisations -- Learnt from the above link

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Can anyone throw some light on the technicalities of Baroque style?

bb: Thanks for the Link, its a nice thread with lots of info.

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`ennulle ennulle' from veera has mind-blowing interludes that could be straight out of a symphony. i am told this song was recorded around the time when IR was busy writing his symphony. no wonder!

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C. Ramesh aka CRAM
IR accepted Valli only after coming to Madras after recording symphony in London.
Proof: IR told in an Interview that Rajini asked IR how he can work in Kodambakkam after doing a symphony when he came to discuss about his own production "Valli".

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thanks for the info, paatali.

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add poottukkaL pOttAlum from kshatriyan in the list.

If some interesting pieces can bee added in the list, the second interlude from the vAdi veththalai pAttu.

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shanjkar,
imo, the sathriyan song has more of jazz influence than WC.

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In fact the song 'PoottukkaL POttalum' has shades of 'These are a few of my favorite things' from The Sound of Music.
Vaan Megham from Punnagai mannan is a good example.
Also, 'POttu Vaitha Kaadhal Thittam' from Singaara Velan.

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I thought this song had a Waltz beat (?).

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Punnagai mannan theme is also WC based.
I like 'Oho megam vandhadhu' song from mouna ragam very much. both the songs have good orchestration.

Naveen

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bb,
thanks for the brilliant thread.wow,i think it is best thread i have come across in TFM page so far.what happened to this kanchana madam who seems to have contributed so much to that particular thread. I tried reviving the thread-but for some reason ,this is not happening.all dfers MUST visit this page.most of it is over my head, but this needs going thru atleast two or three times.

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bb,
thanks for the brilliant thread.wow,i think it is best thread i have come across in TFM page so far.what happened to this kanchana madam who seems to have contributed so much to that particular thread. I tried reviving the thread-but for some reason ,this is not happening.all dfers MUST visit this page.most of it is over my head, but this needs going thru atleast two or three times.
hmmm....discussion ennum peyaril ennavo seidhu kondu irukkirom ippozhudhu!

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i started a thread called -the events in tfm at which you would have liked to be present-reading the discussion about Andhi mazhai-the song recording ,i had mentioned as one of the occasions-increases my reverence for the song even further!what a song and what a musical genius that conceived it!Raaja rules!

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We know that Bach had a tremendous influence on IR's style. Can somebody mention the songs where IR has followed Bach's style in orchestration, techniques, etc?

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One of the best is "Akkaraicheemai Azhaginilae.." sung by KJY in movie priya came in 1980?.. The interludes are probably one of the best Baroque style masterpieces of IR. Just listen few times and let me know what you guys thought of it.

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Oru kiliyin thanimayile - from the movie poo vizhi vasalile. The intro is (i think) a fugue.

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Pootukkal pottalum song's first interlude is an excellent WCM based composition

Naveen

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swamiji...pray tell us how does oru kiliyin thanimayile form a fugue.....dont try to psyche janta with ur jargon dump..please know that there are people who genuinely know what a fugue is and HOW well IR can lift them use them intelligently...

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shakti, i would advise you to enrol in a music school and devote a full semester studying it. please dont ask for explanations to wrap it all in a single sentence. however, heres the defenition of a fuge (from a website). Hope this helps. BTW its not my intention to psyche junta, becoz that exactly what i wanted to avoid. I thought people frequenting this thread already recognized what iam talking about.
"A fugue is written for a set number of "voices" (independent melodic lines) or individual instruments. It begins with a single voice or instrument stating the theme (or "subject") of the piece by itself. Then a second voice takes up this theme while the first voice continues on with a new, independent melody, sometimes known as a "countersubject." Then a third voice may take up the theme while the first two go their separate ways. There are as many entries of the fugue theme as there are voices. (Most fugues are written for two to four voices.)
When all the fugue's voices are going at once, the effect is that of a conversation between different melodies, each commenting on or echoing what the other is saying, yet retaining their individual characters. "
Hope this helps. Merry Xmas and a happy new year ;)

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shakthi, what do you mean ?.
(btw:who are you, your comments reminds me "someone")

Do you mean to say Ir has copied from WC music?, can you tell the source,

enna swamiji, your bathil ?

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Sorry, i forgot to tell u why I think oru kiliyin thanimayile is a fugue...
The intro starts with a piano...
Then a second line of piano joins in later...
Then bass guitar joins the other 2....
all with independent melodic lines...
Jai Raam....Abiraami Abiraami...

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swamiji:
nIrum abirAmi bakthar!! ennE avaL karuNai! :-))

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guys, did unotice a new permanent thread has been created-one on discussion about technicalities.go thru the entire thread.it is too good.

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I have been amazed by the interlude in pORRi pAdadai pennE in thevar magan. A simple ethnic groove (with ghatam+mOrsing) turns orchestral in the interlude as more and more instruments join. Classic IR.

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Swamiji,
Now that you have your Triton or Trinity, how about some MP3 instrumental versions of IR songs and the corresponding MIDI ? I think your keyboard might sound better than the original recording for many old songs.
It would be good for enthusiasts like me to play the MIDI track-by-track and appreciate/learn stuff.

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Kiru:

You are right, "pORRi pAdadai pennE" in thevar magan is unique. I am especially thrilled by the ambience in the song. This was created by, I think, "Urumi Mehlam" that sort of repeats and reverberates in the background..Did you notice it ?

As you know, the Urumi Mehlam is a very simple Tamil native instrument where the guy simply rubs a ice-hockey stick shaped tool on the leather of the drum hanging from the neck. Is that what you called morsing ? I don't know. The guy who plays it is often the maker of this instrument. But that combination of ghatam and Urumi is wonderful.

One of the other obvious songs using this instrument (MSV?) is in the old Shivaji Ganeson movie, "Pattikkada Pattanama" where the song actually starts as "Kettukodi Urumi mehlam.." Ofcourse IR used it in many songs.

IR's use of it is so unique, atypical and wonderful. Just no words to describe the deep rustic native ambience you get listening that thevar maghan song..

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An addendum to ravi's posting on uRumi mELam:

while a curved stick rubs on one side of the `drum'-vroom,vroom-, another stick (not so curved) taps the other side of the drum -tak,tak-...:-)

Raja started using it right from film no.1 (thala vAzha ela pOdunga, oora veettukku varachchollunga)...

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Small observation abt Potri Paadadi Pennae.. The bass track in the charanam is different... single sustained bass notes, aana they are slightly off beat.I found it interesting.

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ravi ks ravichandran
morsing is a small percussion instrument played by keeping it in the player's mouth. it gives sound like "ti yavu...ti yavu...(try to pronounce it nasal)". if u have heard the song "nitham nitham nelli choru nei manakkum kathhirikka.." from 'muLLum malarum' this morsing is used very much. in "pottri paadadi pennae.." this instrument is also used along with ghatam in the preliminary stage of this song. this is what kiru was mentioning in his posting.

i think, as u have observed urumi maelam is also used in this song.

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Raja, rajaadhi , rajan indha raaja
kooja, thookadhe veru engum kooja
- Western Classical music???

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i am hooked on to "manithA manithA ini un vizikaL sivandhAl ulagam vidiyum" of kaN sivanthAl maN sivakkum. the prelude could be expanded in to a full fledged concerto. (swamiji, naveen, srikanth, ... want to try? :-) ) this IS composition! Esudoss sings with zest and the lyrics aren't lagging behind either. (btw, who wrote the song?) this is a must for any ir-song collector. (watch out for the "real" bass voice in the chorus towards the end! wow!)

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Rajan,
'manithA manithA' is a great song indeed!!!!
Great lyrics too !!! You want to know who wrote it ? You are asking for trouble. It is Vairamuthu :)

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SL,

i had that doubt! (who else would use words like dhEsiyam, jOsiyam, sUsagam? :-)) )

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Can some WC buff clarify if Veettukku Veedu Vasappadi (Kizhakku Vasal) is indeed based on Mozart's Symphony No.25 (Titan watch music)?

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Can anybody explain what technique is used in the song Vanam thottu pOnA from Thevar Magan (pathos version of Potrippadadi) - the chorus is simply haunting. Also, the baroque style interludes of Chinna Kannan Azhaikkiran - pathos version sung by Janaki.

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consider the song maamaruthile from karisal kaattu pooove,,good example of western classical,
atho anthe nathiyoram from the film yelai jaathi

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Siraichaalai, Suttum vizhi Parvaiyile Thoondilidum Devi.....full of western classic. I would be pleased if some expert can furnish more details on this.

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Where is "manidha manidha" available on the net? I am desperate to listen to it.

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observer: AIR website.

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Hmm, curious topic! I can name some IR WCM based compositions.

1.) Pudhichaalam Pudhichen (Gopurangal Saayvathillai)- the prelude and the interludes
2.) Chandrigaarum Sooryamum (Avatharam)- the whole song
3.) Bhaaratha Samudhayam (Bhaarathi)- the interlude
4.) Vande Mantaram from the same film
5.) Alaigale Vaa (Kavitha Malar)- again, the entire song. This was apparently one of IR's first attempts at an opera number.
6.) Adukkumalli (Aavarampoo)
7.) Sri Raamane (Kangalin Vaarthaigal)
8.) Varuvaai Anbe (Garjanai)- the interludes
9.) Siru Ponnumani (Kallukkul Eeram)- the entire song, pretty much. I believe this is one song that can be enjoyed by occidental music enthusiasts as well as Indians
10.) Raasaathi Raasaathi (Poovarasan)

And many many more. I could go on and on to no end.....

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Three unforgettable numbers come to my mind immediately.
1. Niram pirithu parthen - mindblowing composition from film Time
2. Vaan megam poo poovai thoovum - another lovely song from Punnagai Mannan
3. Oho megam vandado - This one is my very personal favourite. Listen to the wonderful background music that comes along with Charanam (Kaalgal engeyum pogalam kaadal illamal vaazhalam ..).Wish somebody comes out with analysis of this song!!!

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Mythila ,
That composition from TIME ,i would say is one of the best of Illayraaja .....

1.Oru Punngavanam (Agni Natchathram-Listen to teh interludes!!!!)
2.Enna Solli (Enn Mana Vannil -Listen to the interludes)
3.Vaanavillae (Ramana -AGain interludes)
4.Illaya Nila ( guitar man !!!!)
5.Minmini Parvaigal (Julie Ganapathy)
6.MAnjal Poosum (friends ,Prelude ,Interlude)

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Friends - what is the definition of "W.C. based"? All the songs mentioned above are not WCM.

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Yeah Ramki, I love these numbers you have listed.
Orupoongavam-Esp the background violins that accompany the lyrics in charanam-naan vaanavillai vendinaal oor vilai koduthu vanguven ...
(This song also takes me to a diff world)
enna solli- is a recent great melody in Sudhadhanyaasi raagam
Vaanaville - another recent lovely melody in Dharmavathi after a long time. I loved the prelude of this song too.
Manjalpoosum - the best song in friends. I bought the cassette of friends after listening to this song just once.When I heard this song,I thought IR still has his midaas touch intact.

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Venkatesh ,
That is agood question ..Of course u can give the answer too !!!I had listed songs which uses Orchestral violin interludes and has the symphony touch ,that's it ....

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>>I had listed songs which uses Orchestral violin interludes and has the symphony touch ,that&#39;s it ....<<

Ramki,
That doesn&#39;t qualify them as a purely WC based composition....It&#39;s like calling any song Raga based...Usage of Western style cannot be called a WC song...

IMO, songs like "kanavil midhakkum" from eera vizhi kAviyangaL "poottukkaL pOttAlum" from kshatriyan, & "manidha manidha" from to name a few of them, come under than category.

To me, those songs which can be expanded into a WC piece come under that category.

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typo..usage of WC instruments cannot qualify them to the purely WC category.

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This is a good topic.

I do not know of any purely WC style orchestration along an entire song, if that is what is meant by IR&#39;s WC based compositions. Instead, I would call it that IR is tremendously skilled at WC in his interludes or as starts--When I say this I am restricting myself to piano, violin, flute and classical guitar

One of the best examples that I know of a classical guitar is of course--Izhaya Nila Pozhigirathae... in Payanangal Mudivathillai

The best use of violin Chello and Flute in interludes that I liked, is-- Mayilae Mayilae Un Thogai Yengey.. in Kadavul Amaitha Medai

Another one for Piano is perhaps--Yen Vanilae Ore Vennila...In Jhonny...Actually this song has more of WC violin and chellos but is believed to be having good Piano pieces at places by IR fans--I would say it has outstanding violin pieces--one should listen to discover...

Probably the only piece that I know that has a complete WC backdrop, incredible it is indeed, is "Ennulle Enulle oru Minnal Ezhum Nehram......--Man this blows my mind and I am still awed that how come this guy composes such piece even for some ordinary movies like Valli ? (Am I right ? Please correct if I am wrong..)

Recently I have discovered an amazing collection by Johann David Heinichen, a German Baroque composer, virtually overshadowed by Bach, Vivaldi during the Baroque era..I would recommed his 2 CD set entitled, "Dresden Concerti". When I listened to it felt like IR and Heinichen has some similarities in terms of composing combos involving Violin, Flute, Horn (I don&#39;t know of IR&#39;s use of Horns) and Oboe. If you are a hard core IR fan, you would love it..

You can listen to samples for free in www.towerrecords.com

Bye

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Here is one piece of Johann David Heinichen that is amazing...

Goto

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1086220&cc=USD (http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1086220&cc=USD
)

and listen to number 22. Other pieces are also excellent, if you like violin, flute, oboe etc..

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Ravi k.s.

Good posting, I enjoyed yours. Actually almost all IR songs have some classical elements in it. So its difficult to classify them as pure WCM. However, Guru (Malayalam) songs are all mostly WCM-based, esp. Aruna Kirana. Some more WCM-based songs are:

1) Poongathave (Nizhalgal)
2) Pothi vacha (Mann vasanai)
3) Eriyile elanthamaram (Karayellam shenbagappoo)

Chello piece - Maharajanodu (Sathi leelavathi)
Horn - Nandavanam poothirukkudhu (Illam)

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I left out some more songs:

1) Songs in Ullasa paravaigal - lot of WCM interludes in the songs
2) Ival oru ilanguruvi (Brahma) - happy version
3) Oru iniya manadhu (Johnny) - esp. 1st interlude
4) Vizhiyile mani vizhiyil (Nooravathu naal) - heavy baroque in 2nd interlude
5) Kelade nimageega (Geetha) - Kannada song, with heavy WC chorus
6) Ival yaaro (Vijay&#39;s movie, fogot the name)
7) Kathum kadal - Kattumarakkaran
8) Vaanam thottu pona (Thevar magan) - again WC chorus
9) Unnai ethir parthen (Vanaja Girija)
10) Koondalile (Balanagamma)

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U really cant call the guitar work in Izhaya Nila as classical guitar. The arpeggios in the intro might be, to a little extent, but the remaining parts its more like a guitar in a pop song. (And it seems to be picked with a pluctrum than with fingers.)
A better example of classical guitar by IR is the intro in Ennulle Ennulle. Remember the intro guitar in Priya Priyatama raagalu from the telugu movie Killer, I would say thats tryin to play a classical guitar piece on an electric.

To my limited knowledge, I cannot recall any other songs that have classical guitar peices in them. Slight digression: Some examples of different guitar styles(though not really explored, for lack of audience i think) in our film songs.

1.Flamenco, Spanish-satrangi re, Jumbalakka and bunch of others.
2.Country- The backing guitar in Kannalane when the pallavi is sang for the second time.
3.Country rock- The intro in Sithan Vaasal from Kadhal Samrajyam
4. Our Prassanna style guitar- 1st interlude in Samba samba (love birds), Sutrum Bhoomi 1st interlude in (Dum Dum Dum), 2nd interlude in Kuluvayile, intro to Kannodu kanbathellam.

Second pallavi in Injarango(nylon guitar?), Leysa Leysa(?),Kay sera sera etc feature some decent rhythm guitar rather than just dumb rhythm guitar work.
Two recent acoustic solos that stand out are 2nd iterlude in Gulmohar Malare, and 2nd interlude in Leysa Leysa. To spoil my happiness, theres no song that u can call it as pure heavy metal/hard rock. Musthafa starts promisingly, but soon turns (or dilutes??) into a reggae kinda song. Yea, first interlude features a solo with distortion, but no power chords and stuff. On the contrary, 2nd interlude in Gulmohar Malare and 1st interlude in Chayya Chayya have power chords but then the other music that they accompany turns out to be something else.

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JLT..Gosh! beyond my cognition..Good posting anyway.

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Ye Thenrale from film Nenjathai killade has some rich, lovely western music based interludes.
But Iam no expert to comment on these interludes.

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I think a good majority of IRs songs are westernised. I am not sure they can be called &#39;classical&#39;. By westernised, I mean, the main melody/vocal just follows the 12-note western system, i.e You can play it in a keyboard with almost identical sound. This is the reason IR avoids gamakams, even in some classical songs. The advantage of this, is that, you can write, harmony or play accompanying chords on guitar/piano. Many people who like older MDs or classical musical, always criticize IR for doing away with the nuances of the indian classical music in his song. But IR compensates this with the harmony/chords. This gives a nice rhythmic or harmonious sound to the song.
For rhythmic effect, I will cite, nee paathi naan paathi kannE (guitar chords). For the harmony, one example is, naadham en jeevanE, vaa vaa en dEvanE (bassline for harmony).

pattukku thaalam pOduvathu namathu isai, pattukku harmony sErththu vasippathu mErkathiya isai. intha irandaiyum onRu seRpathu IRyin fusion isai.

Somethings, I have picked up from the music savvy posters here in TFM .

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friends

Have anybody heard the hindhi film song composed by IR in the film KAMAGNI(year 1987),Jiske sagare rankine.....having pure WC style.The violin secction in the prelude,1st interlude are astonishing

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All the songs in this movie were simply astonishing. The interludes in Mein Haseen and You are my love songs are simply great. Can someone give a link for this songs in the net.

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i have all the songs,but how to post in the net?

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Kamagni sound recording one of the worst recordings ever in film history.

Jiske Sagare is a super composition. There is one more Seer Tu Kya Haaseen or something by A Bhosle - a good one, except one of the few IR songs where the interludes were just annoying. The most irritating IR interlude is in Mastana Mastana in Raasaiyyya movie song second interlude, then in Sathya - pa pa pappa etc.. second interlude of Varudhu Varudhu song. Man, the worst lowdonw by IR and the worst interlude of all time. was that Kamal Haasan&#39; voice, btw? sheer torture.)

Som, depends. u want mp3 or realplayer. (i only use realplayer) mp3 might be better for this album all the high frequency noise can be sent to ether.

However, I don&#39;t think IR got radio play for those 2 songs of Kamagni (the movie anyway ran just one matinee show i believe, because the distributors felt the title was not appropriate -it should&#39;ve been Kaam Nahin Agni Bee Nahin kinda Kabhu Kush Kabhi Glum feel to it)

Mahadev also had some super super orchestration but those nice songs never saw the light of the diety. what a pity, i say.

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Straight up, this is one of the best Bollywood albums we&#39;ve heard, regardless of the year. There&#39;s an amazing midtempo mellow 80s funk track with a great break or two on the first side, and the second side contains another quality funk cut AND a very sample-worthy top quality Indo-jazz number! Currently completely unknown, try to find this one before the prices go mad... it&#39;s superb...

http://www.blaxploitation.com/s_510.html (http://www.blaxploitation.com/s_510.html
)

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Kadhal Oviyam -- Alaigal Oyvathillai
Putham Puthu kaalai - Alaigal Oyvathillai
Ennullae -- Valli
German song from Puthu Pattu
Pootukkal - Chatriyan
Sangeetha Megam - Udhaya Geetham
Nilavu Thoongum - KungumaChimizh
Mandram vandha - Mouna Ragam
Ammadi Aathadi - Ithyathai Thirudathaey
All songs from Agni Natchathiram
Oru Naal anth Oru Naal -- Devathai
Chuttum Chudar Vizhi -- ChiraiChalai
Kanmani Anbodu -- Guna
Punnagaiyil Minsaram -- Bharathan
Sangeetham Katrutha -- Veetula Vishesanga
Kodiyilae -- Kadalora Kavithaigal
Theme music of Punnagai Mannan
Kaalam Kaalamaga -- Punnagai Mannan
Anbe Neeyenna -- Pandiyan
Innum Ennai -- Singaravelan
Iravu Nilavu -- Anjali
Diana Diana -- Kathal Kavithai
Malai en vethanai -- Sethu
Couple Of songs from Anand
En iniya pon -- MooduPani
Siriya Paravai -- Antha Oru Nimidam
Athikaalai Nilavae - UruthiMozhi
Nee partha - Hey Ram
Engirintho Ilamkuyilin -- Brahma
Santhosam nenjil -- Manithanin Marupakkam
Rathiriyi Poothirukkum -- Thanga Magan
Ezhai Jaathi -- Ezhai Jaathi
Mazhaiyae mazhaiayae - amma
Mazahi Soodum Velai -- Nan Mahan Alla
Thavikiraen -- Time
Vizhiyilae -- Nooravathu Naal
Konji Konji -- Veera
Enthan Nenjil -- Kalaingan
Vanthal Vanthal -- Oru Oorla Oru Rajakumari
Kaathal Ponveenaya -- Japanil Kalyanaraman
All the time - Nadodi Thenral
Ninikinra Paathayil -- Aathma
Anbae Vaa -- Kili Petchu Ketka Vaa
Iravau Pagalai Theda -- Kannukul Nilavu
Oh Butterfly -- Meera
Oh.. Azhagu Nilavu -- My Dear Marthandan
Tholin Mela -- Ninaivellam Nithya
Poovilae Medai -- Pagal Nilavu
Sithakathi Pookalae -- Rajakumaran
Poove Sempoove -- Solla Thudikuthu Manasu
Naan Enbathu -- Soorasamharam
Netru Indha Neram -- Tic Tic Tic

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digressing..

yaaro

kamagni has a soooper song ( picturization)..a hot tina munim..and that stupid kelzhavan alok nath ..both of them singing in the beach....one of those midnight masala songs...

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yaaro, not bad how how did you find eet? some people in other parts of the world do have that taste!

plus, i didn&#39;t "Metti" was dubbed in Italian with Enno Morricone taking on Ilayaraaja!

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yaaro, not bad how how did you find eet? some people in other parts of the world do have that taste!

plus, i didn&#39;t "Metti" was dubbed in Italian with Enno Morricone taking on Ilayaraaja!

http://www.blaxploitation.com/s_296.html

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&#39;Indiranum Chandiranum&#39; the song from Avatharam is a folk song. But listen to the music track - it is a classic mingle of western instruments with shades of Symphony.

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Musio ,it is indded a great songs ,i think very strong in western classic

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Guys ,what is the thing "METTI" about ??Is it album of iR ??

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Mumbai Ramki,

Metti is a Mahendran&#39;s movie. IR gave excellent songs in that movie.

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metti oli kaatrodu en nenjey thalaattum... remember, Mumbai Poyteengale Ramki

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yaaro, this is how a Indian film song is perceived by a foreign listener:

There&#39;s an amazing midtempo mellow 80s funk track with

a great break or two on the first side (FOR INTERLUDES!!!)

the second side contains another quality funk cut AND (INGEY THAAN KONJUM PROBLEM...

a very sample-worthy (I THINK THESE PEOPLE ARE RAHMANS OF THE WEST, SEARCHING FOR SOME LOOPS AND TUNE, THEY FOUND KAMAGNI SUITABLE?!!!;--)

top quality Indo-jazz number!

BEST CONCLUSION IS BELOW: AAHA!!!!

"Currently completely unknown, try to find this one before the prices go mad...

it&#39;s superb... "

I&#39;VE TO STOCK UP ON KAMAGNI AND PUT IN ON EBAY!!!

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From: Platinov (@ 207.44.152.100) on: Fri Mar 28 04:25:53 EST 2003

















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Good that this is being noticed now. Better tell your kottenge to stop doing what they are doing before it explodes!

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Iam impressed with &#39;Unnai thedi vennila&#39; sung by HariHaran from film En Manavaanil. It has some interesting WCM based interludes. Could somebody comment on this song?

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&#39;Unnai thedi vennila&#39; is a good composition but missing thalaivar touch in that.The selection of instruments gives an impression ( to me) that KR&#39;s hand may be there.I am not finding good flow of the song from beginning to end which one can find in any of the IR&#39;s song.Let it be any song fast number or slow,Happy or pathos the starting tempo is maintained thro&#39;out the song till get finished.Orchestration also keeps the listener
in the same mood and that will be very natural.This can be experienced in any song from "ALHAGI" & "KASI" which were composed by IR.The impact is going to be there for a long time(asai pottu konde irukkalaam).This one is missing with compositions of present TFMD(including KR & YSR).Even a latest hit song provides only
listening pleasure not the after listening impact.The subject song also to some extent gives that impression.

BTW i am not finding any significant WC flavour in this song.If i am sure IR brings in classical guitar,violin & piano to bring WC in the song (listen "enna solli paaduvatho" which is having IR&#39;s stamp with WC touch).The songs Kodaikaala kaatre (panneer pushpangal),Endrendrum ananthame (kadal meengal),enna sugamaana(karjanai),uravugal thodarkathai(aval appadithaan) etc., brings out the real dimension of WC.

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I agree with you som. Probably &#39;Unnai thedi&#39; may not come under WCM. But still I like this song as it makes me happy. Today I was listening to &#39;Vegam Vegam&#39; from Anjali. I feel it is a very unique composition.

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Look at the beat, this was supposed to be a POP or &#39;rhythm&#39; song. But a Maestro cannot do an ordinary, so it has a nice melody to it. Yes, I think this is a real IR tune, maybe Karthik provided the beats, but I am very positive this is IR&#39;s. The charanams are different from the usual norm (in IRs songs). They are more like another pallavi ..I guess this is done so that the dance like beats could be continued through out the song.

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Amongst the recent songs, "Undhan raajiyathil" from Andaan Adimai had some majestic-sounding WCM orchestration, vintage IR. The tune was moving as well. One of the very few gems from IR in recent times. I liked the contrast between the chorus in the pallavi(sung by some vidyodhaya school students?) and IRs voice in the charanam. That flute you hear in the interludes is totally missing these days. IR usually does well in prayer songs like these. "Kadavul Ullame","Devan Thiruchabai Malargale" "Guru charanam" etc. come to my mind. The rest of the songs in Andaan Adimai were pathetic.

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has IR composed an opera-like composition? I think there was one - Alaigale Vaa - that was featured in SOTD. rjay was very critical about it.

I&#39;m not really familiar with the genre. ARR has "Strawberry kanne" which is very operatic IMO. Also, I think the recent kooththu song in Anbe Sivam is like an opera. (hope I&#39;m not the daring fool that Saravanan mentions so often :-)

Any similar song by IR?

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s0, can "Chandhirarum sooriyarum" from Avatharam come under &#39;opera-like-composition&#39;?

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Vj, yeah, I forgot to mention it.

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not only from IR but also generally in TFM, opera-like compositions are lesser in number, i think. "strawberry kaNNae" is really a gem of the crown(opera-like tfm songs).

Can we list opera-like songs in tfm by all possible MDs.

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"raadhai manadhu" - snehidhiye has some WCM bits, MD Vidyasagar.

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The rest of the songs in Aandaan Adimai were pathetic? I wouldn&#39;t say that now. I thought &#39;Ennenna Paada&#39; was kind of nice. The other three were strictly okay.

Vj, yes, I suppose &#39;Chandrigaarum&#39; can be considered an operatic melody, depending on personal perception. :-)

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Though the song thoongaatha vizhigal rendu is composed in raagam amrita varshini the bgm style is very novel.Does it have a substance of jazz?can anybody explain?

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Purv, I also like &#39;Ennenna paada&#39; song . This song has wonderful interludes (Shivaranjini) and would have become memorable if Bhava had not sung it.

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Maestro&#39;s western classical based compositions:

1. Anney Anney
2. Ponmeni
3. Vaadi en kappa
4. Kanna nee enge
5. Maaman veedu macchi veedu

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hi
could anybody give me the link to listen to "uravugal thodarkathai" from aval appaditha. i have been searching for this song for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time still no luck ...

thankx

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Could some one point me the link for mp3 version of Avathaaram, Nandu, Metti, 16 vayadhinilee

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digression

purv,

You could also "Nammava thappu pannina" from Aandaan Adimai...suthamaana shankarabharanam..IR has used shankarabharanam for many comical songs (maamavukku kudumma)...this song is in that genre,a light hearted composition, but so much enjoyable...in the charanams, the female chorus interrupt smoothly, and watch the way the charanams finally end (thaalam thappina maadhiri of effect)

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Could some one tell me what western composition style is Ananda Ragam (Panner Puspangal) is based on.

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oh vasantha raja - neengal kettavai
kannan vanthu - rettai vaal kuruvi
azhagu aayiram - ullaasa paravaigal
germaniyin - ullaasa paravaigal
madai thiranthu - nizhalgal
malare malare - unn kannil neer vazhinthaal
raajanodu rani - sathi leelavathi
uravenum puthia vaanil - nenjathai killathe
kurunchi malaril - azhage unnai aaraathikiren
yentha poovilum - murattu kaalai
yen vaanile - johnny
thozhin mele (african beat) - ninaivellaam nithya

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I recently listened to Danny Elfman&#39;s title score for "Goodwill Hunting" - o my God! it sounded like vintage IR style melody!
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[RR]

Revived from the archives.

This article from our magazine may be interesting:

http://tfmmagazine.mayyam.com/sep05/?t=4584